0:10

Thank you for listening to, uh, Vietnam

0:12

podcast. Now many of

0:15

you will be aware by now that the shoe

0:17

is on a long break right now while I focus

0:19

on my other podcast projects. I

0:22

mean safety to tell you though, that because of

0:24

the way I designed the shoe from the beginning,

0:26

that the back catalog is getting more

0:29

downloads than ever. So thank

0:31

you very much. If you've come across this podcast

0:33

and you're listening to this episode, this

0:35

episode is a pod swap

0:38

with one of my projects for the Vietnam

0:40

is awesome podcast. So

0:42

that podcast is a little bit different to

0:44

a Vietnam podcast in that it more

0:47

highlights the tourism in Vietnam

0:49

and talks to people who are involved

0:51

in bars, nightclubs tools, and

0:53

the tourism industry. So

0:55

in this episode, I'm talking to my friend

0:57

Vinson Wynn, and we're going to talk about

1:00

something that not many people talk about.

1:02

touting. Dean for tourists. I

1:05

lived there for many years and it's

1:07

one of my favorite districts in Saigon,

1:09

even though I used to hate it. And

1:12

I called anyone who lived there. Uh,

1:14

toady and WinCo, then

1:17

I became a toady and. And WinCo, it's

1:19

a really cool neighborhood. And while it's known as the

1:21

ex-pat district, it's got heaps, a

1:23

local food. And it's

1:25

predominantly Vietnamese. Since

1:28

the pandemic, it has completely changed.

1:31

And we talk about those changes and what that

1:33

means for tourists. And if they should

1:35

visit touting. So

1:37

enjoy this episode of, uh,

1:39

Vietnam podcast, but it's really an

1:41

episode of Vietnam has awesome podcast

1:44

with VINs. And when. And if you want

1:46

to check out any of my other projects that I'm working

1:48

on, you can go to www dot Seven

1:50

Million Bikes dot com. One

1:52

of my biggest new projects is a podcast called

1:55

smarter podcasting where it's

1:57

a bit matter. I'm making a podcast

1:59

about how to podcast. So,

2:01

if you are interested in starting your

2:04

own podcast, go check out smarter podcasting

2:06

or send me a message. Get in touch, ask any

2:09

questions. And I will be happy to help. So

2:11

enjoy this episode. Cheers

2:30

Welcome to the Vietnam is awesome

2:32

podcast. We'll help you discover

2:34

the real Vietnam with awesome

2:36

experiences. I'm

2:39

Niall Mackay, your host. I've lived in

2:41

Vietnam since 2016, and

2:43

I'm the host of a Vietnam podcast,

2:45

A comedian, and now brand ambassador

2:48

for Vietnam is awesome. I

2:50

came to Vietnam for a two week vacation

2:52

in 2015 and was immediately

2:54

taken by the beauty, friendliness,

2:57

energy, and even all the quirks

2:59

of Vietnam. My

3:03

guest today is Canadian Vietnamese,

3:06

and also worked in the nightlife scene there for

3:08

over 10 years. He moved to Vietnam

3:10

in 2019 and has since

3:12

then opened up three food and beverage businesses.

3:15

The latest one is in Thao Dien

3:17

on Chan Ngoc Nghien.

3:19

Close enough. Yeah, that sounds good.

3:21

That was pretty good, okay, thank you. it's

3:23

now one of the most thriving streets

3:26

in Thao Dien. So

3:28

today we're going to be talking about Taodian.

3:30

And if you're coming here wondering as

3:32

a tourist, why the hell would I go to Taodian?

3:35

We're going to explain to you how much Taodian

3:37

has changed in the last few years, especially

3:39

post Covid. And if you've had a day

3:41

out in the Mekong Delta, you've done the

3:44

Cu Chi tunnels, you've already walked

3:46

around Walking Street in the baking sun,

3:48

and you're looking for something to do in the evening, well

3:50

we're going to explain what there is to do. First

3:53

of all, share your experience coming

3:55

to Vietnam as a tourist for the first time.

3:58

Well the very first time I came here was 2001

4:00

and, you know, I went with my family. I

4:02

didn't like it, I was 16 at the time, it was very

4:04

poor, very, you know, ghetto.

4:07

And then I came back in 2018

4:10

for vacation. I went to Hong Kong,

4:13

Ho Chi Minh City, Bangkok,

4:15

and Tokyo. And out of the

4:17

four countries or cities, I liked Ho

4:19

Chi Minh City the most. And it was my, you

4:21

know, where my parents are from, so I

4:24

said, Okay, like, yeah, why don't I quit

4:26

my job and move to Vietnam and see how

4:29

it is, give myself a year. And yeah,

4:31

it's been four years and, you know, no turning

4:33

back at all.

4:35

And obviously we're in a post COVID

4:37

world. How have you seen Vietnam change

4:39

in terms of tourism?

4:40

The crazy thing was, you know, Vietnam actually

4:42

did pretty well during COVID. Like we had

4:45

a three week lockdown in 2000

4:47

and then yeah, there was no in

4:49

and outs for anyone. And after

4:52

COVID, I think, you know, within Thao

4:54

Dien business picked up, but, you know, if you looked outside of

4:56

Thao Dien a lot of F&B businesses

4:58

and other businesses closed down. We

5:01

go toward, you know, D1, close to Bitexco

5:03

there's a lot of empty streets. So

5:05

that's the crazy thing about Thao Dien it's

5:08

a bubble of its own, it's own city

5:10

within a city, or a town or community within

5:12

a city.

5:13

So Thao Dien is in District 2,

5:16

which is about 20 minutes outside the city

5:18

these days. I read a blog today and it said, oh, it's like

5:20

less than half an hour. It's, it's not that

5:22

long at all, about 20 minutes from, from District

5:24

1. And if you are visiting as a tourist,

5:26

you might think, well, why would I go out there? And

5:29

I think most tourists are spending the time in

5:31

District 1. Thao Dien is

5:33

traditionally known as the expat

5:35

area. There's District 2 and District 7.

5:37

District 7 is in the south. We won't get into that today,

5:39

but in District 2. Taudeen is

5:41

known as the expat bubble and

5:43

that was primarily because there was a big compound

5:46

there so a lot of the Executives

5:48

when people came here before there was as many

5:50

expats as there is now if they were somebody was placed

5:52

here by the company they were given a house

5:55

in this fancy compound by the river and it's beautiful

5:57

it's still there and it's beautiful and

5:59

then also so from that a lot of the international

6:01

schools started to open to service

6:03

the children of those executives.

6:06

And so from there, it became

6:08

like a little bit of an expat bubble.

6:10

There was some nice, there was some Western

6:12

restaurants, which, well, I mean,

6:14

some of them are still around, and they're not particularly,

6:17

Petalasco was one of the first ones, or Alfresco has

6:19

been there like, since 97

6:22

or something like

6:23

And these were most, mostly primarily for

6:25

that, those small groups of expats. And

6:27

so I've been here seven years. And even when I

6:29

first came here, there was really nothing in

6:31

Taoudian. There was a few restaurants. If

6:34

you wanted to come out and go to Snap Cafe

6:37

and have a bit of an experience of even

6:39

that kind of Western experience and

6:41

maybe some Western shops, you

6:44

would come out to Taoudian. There was very much the expat

6:46

bubble back then, but I was

6:49

an unfair label because when I first came out

6:51

to Taoudian, I was like, Oh, it's super

6:53

local. Like, back then,

6:55

maybe not so much now, but back then it was super

6:57

local, not many high rise buildings

6:59

and loads of like, local

7:02

food which you can still get as well. Now

7:04

fast forward to today, I think Thao Dien

7:06

has completely changed.

7:08

now. It's, It's know, it's developing

7:10

so much. It's a lot of construction

7:13

projects, you know, Masteri has like two projects

7:15

going, going on right now. Yeah.

7:18

Towards like Saigon outcast, which

7:20

is, you know, a pretty popular spot. Yeah,

7:22

lots of development there, and

7:25

the Metro is being built, you know, one station

7:27

in Thao Dien by Vincom Mall, so

7:30

there's gonna be a lot of, you know, growing

7:33

up, or what is it, expansion there. And,

7:36

yeah, a couple years ago, Ho Chi Minh City announced

7:38

that District 2, District, uh,

7:40

Vin, uh, Thu Duc, and District 9 would be Thu

7:42

Duc City. So I think Thao Dien will

7:44

be, you know, kind of like one of the

7:46

hubs of, of the new city

7:48

within a City,

7:50

And again, if you're visiting Vietnam and you're, you're

7:52

doing your research and you're looking into it and you get

7:54

confused by reading that. So Tao

7:56

Dean is now technically not part

7:58

of Ho Chi Minh City. Now, don't worry, it hasn't moved

8:01

anywhere. It's still in the exact same, same place.

8:03

It's just like a zoning law that

8:05

changed to kind of help give it a more economic

8:07

boost.

8:08

Yeah, CBD, you know, commercial

8:10

business development, or whatever it stands for, like,

8:13

yeah, Thao Dien would be part of Thu

8:15

Duc City, Thu Duc, uh, Thu Duc, Ho

8:17

Chi Minh City. So yeah, it's not

8:19

District 2 anymore, technically. Yeah,

8:21

yeah. yeah. Oh, it's not even District 2 anymore?

8:23

Yeah, technically, on paper, like, my business on

8:26

paper is technically, uh,

8:28

Thao Dinh, uh, Thu Duc City,

8:30

Ho Chi Minh City.

8:31

Right,

8:32

imagine writing the, you know, the postcards for that.

8:34

yeah. yeah, I personally

8:36

would recommend, if you're visiting Vietnam and

8:39

you do want to get out of the District 1,

8:42

You're not going to get an authentic Vietnamese

8:44

experience. So I'm not, I'm not advocating that

8:46

if you come to Thao Dien, you're going to get that

8:48

authentic Vietnamese experience, but you're going to get an authentic

8:51

Saigon experience. This is a big bustling city.

8:53

Every district's different.

8:55

different. Yeah.

8:56

I don't even know what that means really, like an authentic

8:58

Vietnamese experience.

8:59

you're a tourist, you're gonna be hanging around Bui

9:01

Vien in District 1, you know, the

9:03

party street. But if, you know, if

9:05

that an authentic experience as well,

9:07

right?

9:07

party. It's kind of like, uh, what's that street in

9:09

Bangkok? Yeah.

9:12

So, you know, if you're here for a few, a few

9:14

days, yeah, that's where you go. But if you're here for...

9:17

you know, a month, a year on contract

9:19

or work, or if you're living here, then I

9:21

think Thao Dien is where, you know, a lot of the

9:23

expats would go if you're missing

9:26

food from back home or, you know, some

9:28

nightlife culture or some groceries,

9:30

like Annam Market is always busy because

9:33

Sometimes I'm missing, so some stuff from back home.

9:35

Yeah. Iron Brew,

9:37

Iron Brew? Iron Brew, yes, yeah, Scottish, yeah,

9:39

I don't know, when

9:40

I remember when I first came here and I could find Iron

9:42

Brew. I don't drink it very often, but just the fact

9:44

that I could find it,

9:45

I don't know if the audience would know what Iron Brew is.

9:47

is. If you don't know what Iron Brew is. you are missing out. It's

9:49

the most popular soft drink. In Scotland,

9:52

it's the only country in the world where Coke is

9:54

not the number one soft drink.

9:55

in the world. And also the best cure for the hangover.

9:57

And I need one today, yeah. So

10:00

tell us about why did you move your business

10:02

recently to

10:04

So we were still in District 2, about

10:06

10 minutes away from where we are now, in

10:08

an apartment complex, Sun Avenue.

10:12

We were there for about a year and a half, and then

10:14

COVID happened, and the landlord saw

10:16

how well we were doing, and he wanted

10:18

to double up the rent. You know, that's kind of the

10:20

whole, that's the... Uh,

10:23

bad thing about, you know, Vietnam where property

10:26

laws, contract laws and everything favors

10:29

the landlord and not

10:31

the tenants. So yeah, he wanted

10:33

to double up our rent and we said, you know what? We're going

10:35

to move to Thao Dien where it's a bit

10:37

cheaper and there'll be more customers.

10:40

So yeah, we moved there about two months ago and...

10:43

Yeah, it's been going well. Deliveries

10:45

is, you know, going through the roof. People

10:48

walk into getting, uh, getting better. And

10:51

yeah, you know, we haven't looked back since, and...

10:54

And so the name of your venue is The Avenue. And

10:57

tell our listeners what massive distinction

11:00

award that you've now won twice.

11:03

Yeah, we won the best burger in

11:05

Saigon at Saigon Outcast We won it

11:07

twice last year and this year. This

11:09

year was the people's choice. Yeah,

11:12

it's, it's such an honor. Like we weren't aiming

11:14

for, you know, being the best

11:16

burgers. We just wanted to have good food and

11:19

we were doing pastas and breakfast and stuff like

11:21

that. But yeah, we got our best, uh,

11:23

the best burger

11:24

And I think this is, again, it's surprising

11:27

for people coming to Vietnam and, you

11:29

know, a lot of people have the expectation of rice fields

11:31

and water buffaloes and, and that those

11:34

all exist, but then you come to

11:36

Saigon and it's, It's this massive

11:38

bustling city with so much going on and

11:40

I've seen the change within seven years when getting

11:43

a burger was not difficult

11:45

but getting a good burger was, you know, you

11:47

had to seek it

11:48

7 years ago, there was probably only like Chuck's

11:50

Burgers and maybe Soul I think.

11:53

something like that. Yeah, exactly. And then,

11:55

but whereas now we have like, when we can

11:57

mention Saigon Outcast in a minute, Saigon

12:00

Outcast has like a burger festival and there's hundreds

12:02

if not thousands of people there.

12:04

it's like about 1400 people

12:05

Fourteen hundred.

12:06

the one a few months ago.

12:08

And how many vendors?

12:09

Uh, 7.

12:10

Yeah, and that's not all of them. And so

12:12

now you can get a really good worker. What

12:15

I want to stress is, when you come to

12:18

Saigon, and I often say Vietnam, but Saigon

12:20

is not Vietnam, Saigon is Saigon, and you come

12:22

to Saigon, there is so much here

12:24

for you, and obviously

12:26

we still want you to come and have that authentic

12:28

Vietnamese experience, whatever that means to you, whether

12:31

that's Boi VN or not, but if you do want

12:33

to do something Authentically Saigon.

12:37

That might not mean going for some pho. You

12:39

can get that anywhere. You can go and get a burger.

12:41

You can go get a pizza. That's like some of the pizza and

12:43

pasta here is like,

12:45

pho. At any rate, you

12:47

can go and get a burger, you can

12:49

go and get like some pizza and pasta

12:51

here. I'm saying, you know, the beef

12:54

back in Canada and, you know, America is

12:56

better than the beef in Vietnam.

12:58

this

12:58

So we're going to have better quality pho, in my opinion,

13:01

you know, don't at me, don't attack me. But

13:03

yeah, no, the pizza here, like, you know,

13:06

Four Peas has amazing pizza and, you

13:08

know, Japanese, Italian pizza. Like

13:10

it sounded weird before I tried it, but now, like,

13:12

I love it.

13:13

And so, yeah, there's so much of that kind of fusion

13:15

as well. I know that's kind of wanky world, but there's so much

13:17

of that fusion, like Japanese pizza and, but

13:20

also like modern Vietnamese food. Like

13:23

Vietnamese food is so much more than just pho. One

13:25

of my favorite places is Betvo. And

13:29

that's not Fusion, but it's just like

13:31

really good, modern, clean, fresh.

13:34

Very good. Very affordable.

13:35

I mentioned earlier that Tau Dien

13:37

has completely changed since

13:40

Covid, so within just three years.

13:43

And I think maybe before Covid I

13:45

wouldn't really say to tourists, oh you should

13:47

go check out Tau Dien, there's a couple of restaurants,

13:49

but nothing really. Now,

13:52

when I drive through Taodian, you can just tell you like, oh

13:54

yeah, that's a tourist, like you can just tell somebody,

13:56

you know, camera around the neck or whatever it is, you're

13:58

like, you, you know, and I'm seeing more and

14:00

more people coming out to Taodian.

14:02

So what has changed so dramatically?

14:05

I

14:06

I think, I think just a bunch of businesses showing

14:08

up, you know. You know, you look at Plan K

14:10

just, just opened up a huge location right

14:12

at, you know, on Salo Hanoi, the

14:14

main street, uh, Zoomware,

14:17

you know, two big, uh, sorry,

14:19

a very big franchise for,

14:21

for, you know, party food and drinking

14:24

opened up on the same street, Baozi,

14:26

and then you look at Clay, who,

14:29

you know, Clay and Brick, same owner, but, you know, they're

14:31

probably 200 meters apart. And

14:33

yeah, both of them were doing well. And yeah,

14:35

just a lot of places opening up. Even

14:37

though the rent is pretty high, so I don't know how

14:40

they're justifying it, but everyone's

14:42

slowly, you know, coming in to Tout Inn.

14:44

and what I've noticed, you just mentioned two of my

14:46

other favorite places to, so bricks and

14:49

clay. I was in clay last night, and

14:51

these places are such

14:53

high quality.

14:55

Yeah, it's way nicer than some of these, actually

14:57

most of the establishments back home, like, you know, it's

14:59

wood interior, right by the river.

15:02

Amazing service, good cocktails,

15:04

affordable

15:05

Mm. And this, again, again,

15:07

we're stressed that tourists coming to Vietnam. You can

15:09

come out and you can go to these beautiful

15:12

places. Like the interiors, like the interior

15:14

design is just stunning. And I think

15:16

it's what you wouldn't expect. You come to Vietnam and you do

15:18

get, you do find it. I go there, the little plastic stool

15:20

places with a disgusting bathroom. And

15:23

you know you're gonna get a, a beer for

15:24

Disgusting bathroom. You know, you're going to

15:26

Yeah, totally normal. Really?

15:28

Yeah. That's a cockroach and no worries. But now

15:30

there's also. And again, I've noticed this difference

15:32

in seven years. Seven years these places did not

15:34

exist and now they're popping up and

15:37

they're such good quality. You mentioned the service as

15:39

well. I think another stereotype of

15:41

Saigon and definitely seven years ago this

15:43

was true. The service was not great and

15:45

that was fine. You understood that like we're in

15:47

a developing country. They

15:49

don't have the same background of 20, 30,

15:52

40, 50 years of service culture.

15:55

Could also be the, you know, the, the, the

15:57

language barrier, right? They're not used to, you know,

15:59

they can only say basic stuff, and right now, a

16:02

lot of them are learning English, and, and. Yeah,

16:04

the service here is amazing compared to back home and back

16:06

home, you know, in Canada and US you have to tip

16:09

even if it's bed service, you know, and now I heard that

16:11

tip is 20% back home. That's

16:14

that's standard over here. There's

16:16

no tipping culture yet. The service is

16:18

amazing. You know,

16:20

there's always staff standing right by you or looking

16:22

at you and Waiting for you every move.

16:25

And yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's pretty good here.

16:27

As soon

16:27

as soon as that glass is empty, there's somebody

16:29

right over like one more beer and you're like, this

16:32

is why I've got a hangover today. It's not

16:34

my fault. But so these, these, these places

16:36

are outstanding quality, beautiful

16:39

design. And still affordable,

16:41

which makes them so appealing, and that's

16:43

kind of my point, is if you do want to come out to Taodian,

16:46

these places have like, well, so, Clays by the River,

16:48

beautiful, beautiful setting, Bricks has

16:51

got a pool built in, you can hang out in the pool if you

16:53

want, if you're not, you can sit on one of the beds, or

16:55

the couches by the, by the pool.

16:58

you're looking at Clay and Bricks, you know, the average

17:00

cocktail is probably what, like 240k,

17:03

Ah, yeah, probably,

17:04

is about 11, 12 US dollars,

17:06

you know, for a nice cocktail. And then

17:09

Happy Hour, a lot of the places have half prices.

17:11

Like, you look at 86 Proof on

17:13

Suntory, a very popular bar, they have

17:15

half price from like 4 to 7 p. m. it's

17:18

like five, six, yeah, five, six dollars and it's packed

17:20

and the vibe is good. And, you know,

17:22

probably in Taodian, that's probably my favorite bar. They have really

17:24

good cocktails there. Make

17:26

sure you you ever been here as a

17:28

pool? Yeah, the whiskey sours are the best in the city.

17:31

And we're trying to get the owners of 86

17:33

proof on this podcast. So Rochelle and

17:35

Jason, if you're listening, come on. the podcast.

17:38

We want you on here to talk about your amazing cocktails.

17:40

And the other one that gets me is, uh, so

17:42

like be a craft is a

17:45

craft beer bar. Obviously, well, maybe

17:47

not obviously, but as a craft beer bar

17:49

from the name, be a craft. And when

17:52

I first came to Taurian, I've still got the

17:54

pictures. I still, I was looking at them actually just in

17:56

preparation for this. It

17:58

was a tiny hole in the wall.

18:01

Little craft beer bar with about

18:03

10

18:04

So it's not the same size as it was now,

18:06

oh it is

18:06

not the same size as what it was about 10 seats.

18:09

Oh, wow. It

18:09

was tiny! And that was one of the

18:11

reasons why we came to Taodian. We'd

18:14

never been here, we lived in District 4 and we

18:16

were like, Oh, let's go, it's like a day trip.

18:17

very local, District 4.

18:19

Yeah, Yeah, that was a totally different experience So

18:22

we came out basically just to go to be a craft

18:24

because we love craft beer There was no 86

18:27

proof no pastel street brewing like

18:29

there's one tweet the main street There

18:31

was like nothing on there apart from local

18:34

places. And so we went out there

18:36

now In the same spot, Beercraft

18:38

must have like 200 seats, 40

18:42

50 taps, maybe not that many, 20 30 taps

18:44

of beer. There's the Maroo chocolate above.

18:46

and that's actually pretty good chocolate too.

18:48

Maroo chocolate is unbelievable, yeah. It's,

18:50

you know, barbers

18:50

It's, you know, ethical chocolate made in, in

18:53

Vietnam using, yeah, it's.

18:55

Ethical, which is good. Whereas, you know, in Africa,

18:58

you know, a lot of the farmers don't have never tasted chocolate

19:00

in their lives.

19:01

chocolate in the guy, Vincent, who

19:03

owns Maroo and started it, and... It's

19:06

essentially organic, but they

19:09

don't have the official organic label, because they

19:11

have to go through so many hoops and Paperwork

19:13

and all of this, and they're like, we know it's organic, like it's

19:15

locally sourced, all their ingredients are locally

19:17

sourced, so they don't promote it as

19:19

organic at all, but from what I've

19:21

heard, it's essentially organic,

19:23

because it's

19:24

it's it's very

19:25

the farm up the road.

19:26

It's high quality stuff. I always, you know, every time

19:28

I have friends that visit, I bring them to Maru

19:30

and they love it. The packaging's nice.

19:32

You know, the, the venue looks nice too,

19:35

so, yeah. How do you suggest Maru as well?

19:38

So, we me, so let's go back to your venue

19:40

'cause we haven't even talked about that. So your venue is the avenue?

19:42

Yes. So what kind of venue

19:44

is yours?

19:45

It's, uh, basically a sports bar because,

19:47

you know, I. Basically, you know, every

19:49

guy I think grows up wishing that they had a bar.

19:52

And for me, yeah, it was to open up a bar

19:54

and watch sports all day. And

19:56

yeah, so that's why I opened up the first location.

19:59

And the second location became more sporty with, you

20:01

know, jerseys on the wall. And

20:04

yeah, we had, you know, Western food because I was, you

20:06

know, there was some... Right now, actually, one of our best

20:08

sellers is jerk chicken, which is a Jamaican

20:10

dish, which I think only one or two other

20:12

people sell it in the whole city. And

20:15

yeah, it's one of our best sellers now. People, you know, introducing

20:17

Jamaican food to locals and expats.

20:20

Actually, you know, it's pretty fascinating. And

20:23

yeah, you know, we have cocktails

20:25

and sports on all day,

20:27

you know, so, but NBA, NHL, UFC,

20:30

all that, World Cup right now.

20:32

and what I've noticed and I just, I absolutely

20:35

love these craft beer bars, sports bars

20:37

like yourself. I think

20:39

because, especially in Taodian, but all

20:41

over the city, but especially Taodian, it's known as an

20:43

expat place. So, I know

20:45

for a fact when the first Craft Beer Bars opened here,

20:47

it was all expats. Now,

20:50

I mean, last time I was in Beer Craft, there must

20:52

have been about 50 or 60 people there. I

20:54

was the only expat.

20:56

Yeah, it's actually, you know, a lot of Vietnamese are enjoying

20:58

the craft beer scene and, you know, maybe

21:01

they got sick of Tiger and

21:02

Hopefully.

21:03

or beer Saigon or 333,

21:05

you know, I've actually never drank a 333

21:07

still was,

21:07

Is it?

21:08

terrible, yeah,

21:09

But yeah, they like to craft beer scene. They like the whole, and

21:11

you know, the craft beer companies are doing a lot of,

21:14

you know, Asian flavors like pomelo,

21:16

dragon fruit, jasmine, which

21:19

other ones? Lemongrass,

21:22

yeah, just basically any Asian fruit.

21:24

There's probably a crappier company making

21:26

it, and it's good.

21:28

and so again, I think as a tourist, if you want to come

21:30

out and again, go back to that authentic Vietnamese

21:32

experience, you'll be surprised 'cause you're going to this

21:34

craft beer bar, but you're getting

21:37

local flavors that you won't get in any

21:39

other country. And you're surrounded by local

21:41

people, and I think, again, this is the stereotype

21:43

of all Vietnamese people are working in

21:45

a rice paddy.

21:46

That was actually my impression, you know, before

21:49

coming here in 2018, so imagine like five years

21:51

ago, I was like, you know, it's probably just a bunch

21:53

of rice paddies and cows

21:55

walking around and everything. I came here, I'm like, oh

21:57

wow. It's like a modern city. It's kind of like

22:00

Singapore, but dirtier right Hong Kong.

22:02

Right. And that's why I hope one day that, you know,

22:04

Ho Chi Minh City becomes like Hong Kong

22:06

or Singapore one Day

22:07

Oh, it's without a doubt it's coming. And I

22:10

guess what I'm trying to stress, because I keep almost repeating

22:12

myself is come to Vietnam

22:14

for all the stereotypical reasons. It's beautiful,

22:16

I've travelled the whole country and it is absolutely

22:19

breathtaking and stunning. But I

22:21

think there's, especially now,

22:23

there's so many different reasons to come here and

22:25

I think a lot of people will be surprised. to

22:28

see Saigon especially and be like, Oh,

22:30

there's so much to offer. Cause my

22:33

feeling is that most

22:35

people come to Saigon and I don't

22:37

think there's that much to do. Unless

22:39

you, like, listen to a podcast like this, because

22:42

they're gonna go to the, gonna go to Coochee

22:44

Tunnels, Day Trip to the Mekong

22:47

The Cathedral, the Post Office, which

22:49

I don't get at all.

22:50

don't get it either, yeah. I did it when I first

22:52

came as well, like, we gotta go to the post office, the cathedral's

22:55

been under scaffolding for about five years now,

22:57

you can't even see it. Uh,

22:59

you're gonna go to Reunification Palace, you're gonna

23:01

check out the War Remnants Museum. And again, you should

23:03

absolutely do all of this stuff, but

23:06

then past that... I don't

23:08

see, I know what there is to do, but I don't see if,

23:11

I don't know if tourists know what there is to do.

23:13

Yeah, that's the thing. A lot of them look on YouTube

23:16

and, you know, they find a lot of people making

23:18

videos and, you know, a lot of them try to go

23:20

for very local foods,

23:22

whereas, you know, we have good high

23:24

quality Vietnamese food as, you know, local food

23:26

as Western food. So there's a lot of variety that

23:29

are not shown on. YouTube or TV

23:31

because they want the shock factor of eating worms

23:34

or cockroaches, you know, and that's you

23:36

know Like I don't know anyone that in Vietnam has eaten

23:39

the cockroaches, but you know, you look at a

23:41

very famous guy on YouTube You know, he's eating all this, you know

23:44

weird stuff Vietnamese dishes and you know

23:46

good for him. But yeah, it's more than just

23:48

bugs and Fall and yeah,

23:50

and that's what gets clicks, right? Like, the most

23:53

shocking food you've ever

23:54

you know millions of views just because you know, Yeah,

23:56

Yeah, so come out, and

23:59

get a burger, like, you know what I mean? I know it's not, it's

24:01

not authentic Vietnamese.

24:02

pastas, you know, there's good sushis

24:04

like a lot of place for Wagyu beef too because

24:06

we're so close to Japan so Yeah,

24:08

we get, you know, good quality beef coming in. There's

24:10

a lot of nice sushi restaurants opening up.

24:13

and I think again, that's the difference is from

24:15

when I first got here seven years ago, you couldn't

24:17

really get a good burger. The pizza was pretty

24:19

terrible. It was hard to get, cheese was expensive.

24:21

cheese is still expensive. Even I live

24:23

Well, Cheese is always, Even I lived in New Zealand,

24:25

cheese was bloody expensive, but do you know what it was like? Difficult

24:27

to even find the, the correct cheese.

24:29

Whereas now all the pizza's like,

24:31

oh my, they're so good. So Thao

24:34

Dien and so much good food so much. Good

24:37

alcohol, good cocktails, good

24:39

beer, great coffee as well.

24:41

What else is there to do in Thao Dien

24:43

in Thao Dien there's a lot of things to do, you know. Saigon Outcast

24:46

usually has a festival every weekend,

24:48

you know. Just... The past one had a beer festival,

24:50

which we attended, had maybe almost a

24:52

thousand people. There's a skating

24:54

rink, you know, in a country where that's 40 degrees

24:57

in Vincom Mall. Ice skating

24:59

rink. Yeah,

24:59

ice skating rink. Yeah,

25:01

ice skating rink. Yeah, a lot of

25:03

like, you know, bike trails. You can go canoeing,

25:05

I think, right by the river by, what's

25:07

that place? Café des

25:09

Stagiaires. Café des Stagiaires. Yeah,

25:12

I, you know, I'm not French, so yeah.

25:14

But that's another great recommendation. Café

25:16

Oh, one of the

25:17

des

25:17

yeah, one of the best views of the city from

25:19

that cafe.

25:20

So you have a rooftop there, go

25:23

at sunset, it overlooks Landmark 81,

25:25

which if you don't know Landmark 81,

25:27

what are you doing listening to this podcast? Go and find out

25:29

what Landmark 81 is. No, Landmark 81, tallest

25:32

building in all of Southeast Asia, I

25:34

believe. 14th

25:37

in the world, I think. 14th 81 floors, incredible

25:40

building and The

25:42

Rooftop of Café des Stagiaires overlooks

25:45

Landmark 81. It's

25:49

nice. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful spot. They've just opened

25:51

a park up there, which is another thing that's, I've

25:53

noticed changes in Saigon. They're starting to

25:56

value more green spaces, which before

25:58

it used to just, a lot of places were just dumping

26:00

grounds or concrete, Café des

26:03

Stagiaires again, happy hour, go

26:05

at sunset, check it out. That's

26:08

all great around there, but then even Saigon Outkast.

26:10

Yeah, it's definitely one of my favorite places. It's

26:13

Again, maybe not a big tourist attraction,

26:15

but if you're coming out to Saigon, I would absolutely,

26:18

sorry, if you're coming out to Taodin, I would absolutely

26:20

go to Saigon Outkast. There's got rock climbing

26:22

there. So if you want to, if you're a rock climber, little

26:26

mini skating park that, uh, will

26:28

be full of skater kids. But if you want to go out

26:30

and do some skating, there's like,

26:32

look up what festivals are on. So they do a burger

26:34

fest. They just had a beer festival, taco

26:37

they'll do it. Yep,

26:40

Yeah, and almost every Saturday

26:42

is a different festival and they're all packed

26:45

and has a great atmosphere. They normally have

26:47

live bands on, things like this. So

26:50

that's a definitely a good one. And

26:52

even if you're into things like yoga, there's the yoga pod,

26:54

which is down this small

26:56

street. I've been here

26:58

for years and never even knew there was anything down

27:00

there. It's like past where there's pasta fresca,

27:03

which again, great pizza. And you go

27:05

down and it's this beautiful, tranquil,

27:08

leafy, green little

27:10

haven with little offices and

27:12

a pond. And then like this yoga

27:14

pod in the back and loads

27:16

of yoga studios, gyms as well.

27:18

I doubt if you're a tourist you'd probably want to go to the gym.

27:21

Second

27:21

Yoga Pod in the back. Loads of yoga

27:23

in

27:25

But the point is as well, it's not just expats

27:27

anymore, because now you go and it's the,

27:29

when you see the traffic in Taodian,

27:31

it's all Vietnamese people, and this is one

27:33

of the things that's changed with Taodian,

27:36

the secret got out, so it used to

27:38

be the expat bubble, and

27:40

it was the expat community. would

27:42

hang out there, and that's what you expected

27:44

to see, but now, with these restaurants,

27:47

or like I mentioned, Be A Craft, it's

27:49

all Vietnamese people, who are coming

27:51

from outwith Taodien, to

27:53

visit all these venues, so, it's a completely

27:56

different atmosphere now, and the biggest change

27:58

for me, was when a nightclub

28:00

opened.

28:01

Which one was that, X8 or Indigo? Indigo?

28:03

Yeah.

28:05

That's when, now there's three nightclubs,

28:07

apparently.

28:08

Yeah. And then beside the Nigo,

28:10

they're opening up like, kind of like, ,which

28:12

is like, you know, a beer drinking place for locals. So

28:15

this Belgo opening up a

28:17

Belgo's opening up

28:18

Belgo is opening up? beside, What's

28:20

it, uh, Highland Coffee Area,

28:22

like where Oot Oot

28:25

is. Oh, that's another good venue too, Oot Oot for

28:27

American barbecue. Uh, but

28:29

yeah, Se Bagac, which is like a very,

28:31

it's a very Vietnamese brand. And yeah, they're

28:33

opening up now to hiring staff. So

28:36

that's going to, again, the locals are going there now

28:38

because they know, like you said, it's kind of like a

28:41

secret that's revealed now and people are

28:43

coming there because that's where it's,

28:45

you know, fun and safe and not too busy

28:47

and not too trashy like

28:49

Bouvian

28:51

Well, and that's, I guess, a really good point to

28:53

make. And that's the difference. So if you are looking for something

28:55

to do in the evening... There's

28:57

so much to do in District 1, obviously,

28:59

but it's a bit more spread out. The only place

29:02

that's concentrated, really, is Beau

29:04

Vienne. And That's

29:06

I think that's basically it for nightlife or if things

29:08

to do,

29:09

And don't go to Beau Vienne. Like, go check it

29:11

Yeah, just walk down the street, five minutes,

29:13

you know, get deaf. And then, Yeah.

29:16

Cause even that... And I hate to sound like... Cause

29:18

I know... If I tell you my

29:20

experience from seven years ago, there will be somebody

29:23

who's been here for 14 years that will tell their experience

29:25

from seven years ago. It's always things. Sometimes some

29:27

things always get washed, right? And your experience

29:29

is your experience. But even when I first got

29:31

here, Boivien was pretty chill. It

29:33

was open late, cheap beer.

29:36

You could hang out till six in the morning, which we

29:38

did a couple of times. Bit dangerous.

29:41

But it was kind of fun and chill. Now,

29:45

it's just like, it's tried to mimic

29:47

kinda Khao San Road, but gone too far,

29:49

so now it's full of like nightclubs

29:51

that all compete to see how

29:53

loud they

29:54

decibels, basically like

29:56

you'll be deaf after 10 minutes there and

29:58

you know, there's a lot of poor kids begging

30:01

and fire breathers and you

30:03

know, balloons and drugs going around. So,

30:06

yeah, not my cup of tea.

30:08

Yeah, not my cup of tea that is, but it must be somebody's.

30:11

but if you are looking for something to do in the evening,

30:13

and again, I don't know, I mean, I don't read

30:15

all the blogs in the world, there's like 600 billion

30:17

blogs in the world or something like that, I'm not, ,but I'm

30:19

not sure if Taodian is on the tourist

30:21

map yet.

30:23

That's a good question. Yeah. I don't see many people talking

30:25

about TA in when you look up YouTube or

30:27

Google or, you those travel

30:29

shows. Right.

30:31

And it's got the reputation of being the expat

30:34

community, which I

30:36

don't think is true.

30:37

like you said. Yeah. You know, any travel show would

30:39

tell you to go to the, the cathedral

30:41

and the post office. But yeah, I don't see many of them talking

30:44

about Tad in, I, you know, maybe internationally.

30:46

It's kind of still hidden.

30:48

And there'll be a video definitely of somebody walking

30:50

down Boyvian and being like, Oh my god, this place

30:52

is so loud, Boyvian, like,

30:53

Yeah, but you know, you probably won't get the same kind

30:55

of a tech of views walking downtown

30:57

in it's, you know, it's nice and quiet, but, you know,

31:00

that's the way, you know, I like it. Oh, we like it,

31:02

right?

31:02

exactly. So that's kinda my point. You

31:04

could definitely spend if you're in Saigon

31:07

for more than a few days and I, I, I feel like

31:09

most tourists come to Saigon just for a couple of days.

31:11

'cause there isn't a huge amount to do in the

31:13

city unless you really know what to look

31:15

for. But go

31:17

do the local tourist stuff. You have to do the cathedral

31:19

and all of that stuff that we're kind of talking shit about. But

31:22

you still have to do it because it is worthwhile

31:24

seeing. But if in the evening you're looking for something a

31:26

little bit different or if you're here for a few days, And

31:29

you've got the time, head out to Towdy

31:31

Inn, have a day there, you can go and do anything,

31:34

there's

31:34

spend a nice evening there, you know, like have dinner at.

31:36

Tinto, Amazing Food, or Okra,

31:39

is my favourite maybe, shout out to okra.

31:42

and then, you know, after that you go for after dinner drinks

31:44

at, you know, 86 Proof,

31:46

Rasha Room, Pastor's Treat,

31:50

which other ones, Dram, you know, there's a lot of

31:52

good places, and then, yeah, nighttime, one,

31:54

go to one of the three nightclubs in Thao

31:57

You won't see me there, but you might see Vince.

31:59

And if you don't wanna hit up the nightclub, go to

32:01

check. Go check out that avenue on. Let

32:03

me see if I can say it right. Jen

32:05

Dien, 18 Trần Ngọc Việt,

32:07

Gen. Yep. Yeah,

32:08

Yeah, with an N, but yeah, that's good, that's

32:10

good. That's not too bad. And uh, you can

32:12

try the best burger inside. Gone there as well.

32:14

Watch some sports. And my favorite thing is

32:16

you have a Tom Brady jersey on the wall, which,

32:18

which I love.

32:20

And you know, he is the GOAT, unfortunately.

32:22

know, he's a cult,

32:24

Deservedly fine, yeah, deservedly. Anyway, uh,

32:27

smart he's

32:29

a really... Thank

32:31

for having

32:32

me. Yeah,

32:33

Always, good day. You too.

32:37

I'm Niall Mackay. I'm your host of

32:39

the Vietnam is Awesome podcast. We

32:41

are here to help you discover the real Vietnam

32:43

with awesome experiences. So make sure

32:45

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