Athena started her career in banking after graduating from Carnegie Mellon. She got her first taste of entreprenurship helping to organise the Art Basel Art Fair in Hong Kong and got into the event planning industry. After that, she became the third employee at DoctorAnywhere, a telemedicine company based in Singapore, leaving to start her own pet telemedicine company with her friend.

https://zumvet.com/

Learn her insights on:
- bootstrapping the ZumVet app using an external technology agency with her own savings before fundraising
- growing her customer base with Facebook groups
- the telemedicine industry and different business models within it
- eating her own dog-food, She uses ZumVet herself and pays for it!

Favourite Book
Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera

Favourite Tool
Notion for everything from note-taking to onboarding documents

Most important lesson
Learning to work with your co-founder, find your groove where you work well with them.

[00:00:00] Alvin: Okay. Three, two, one. Welcome to Abyss Gazing. In this episode, we are joined today with Athena Lee CEO and cofounder of zoom vet, a telemedicine company, which targets the veterinarian medicine market here in Singapore. Um, as he now has a background in finance and enter the world of startups after working in finance.

So I think now, are you ready to begin? Yes, 

Athena: thanks for having me. 

Alvin: Okay. So like, let's start off just with your background. You you're originally from Hong Kong, you graduated from Carnegie Mellon university. Um, can you tell us a bit about your, uh, Oh, you started out your career at Moody's investors and how that led to the world of startups.

Athena: Sure. So, um, I graduated in 2000, um, and at the time finance was still, you know, the way to go. I think [00:01:00] startups were just starting to take off. So when I was graduating, um, I always imagined myself in a corporate setting. Um, and so, you know, immediately after I graduated, I started applying to jobs and, um, opportunity with Moody's came up.

Um, and I'd say that. You know, it, it was quite interesting. Um, I started at Moody's. I was there for about two years, and then I moved back to Hong Kong, um, and started at UBS. And so for the first, uh, six or seven years of my career, um, I was mainly focused on finance. Um, and it was really a great experience.

And even to this day, uh, when I'm talking to people who were just graduating, um, I always encourage them to look into, uh, starting, starting at a corporate first. You know, one of the most important things I've found is that at, in a corporate setting, you have great mentors there. And so, um, one of the first managers I ever had Jocelyn, um, you know, really had a big influence, uh, on the way that I [00:02:00] worked to this day and the way that I manage my employees as well.

Um, you know, being very hands on, but also making sure that I, um, She, you know, I, I took the time to learn important skills. Um, you know, a lot of things like how Excel works, um, how a company works, how teams work together. Um, and a lot of the insight that I have, um, right now and the way that I run my company, the way that I set up my systems and processes, um, is very heavily influenced by how, um, you know, I want to grow the company.

So the way that I see my company now is to do that. I think we may have been disconnected, 

Alvin: but nice. Okay. The audio is fine. Like I seen the video is freezing a bit, but I heard you, uh, all along.

Yeah. I heard your story about, uh, Jocelyn and 

Athena: Excel. Should I just continue now? 

Alvin: Yeah, just continue.

[00:03:00] Okay. Can you hear me?

Athena: Sorry, you're cutting 

Alvin: it. Right. I hear your whole story about your mentor Jocelyn. Yeah. Okay. 

Athena: All right. Uh, so, uh, just to continue, um, I think that. You know, working in a corporate environment, especially in a bank or at a financial services company, you know, gain a lot of insight into how, um, other companies succeed.

Uh, you understand the importance of having strong or robust, uh, processes and systems. And, um, you know, these are the types of things that I want to instill into the company that I have. Um, I've worked at a couple startups previously, right? And things do get very chaotic. Um, and you know, there's a lot going on.

You don't have a very big team. Um, and so things start to get messy very quickly. Um, but if you [00:04:00] have the right infrastructure in place, um, you know, things tend to go a bit more smoothly and you're able to control, um, a lot more of, um, your internal processes and ensure that your end customers, um, have the best journey possible.

Alvin: Okay, we can go into a bit more detail later on when we talk about zoom vet about how you actually implement that, uh, how you implement those structures and processes in zoom vet. Uh, but for now, can you tell us a bit about mismatch events? You, you started this company back in Hong Kong. Um, what was that like?

This was your first actual company that you did outside of a corporate 

Athena: context.

Sorry. I missed the question. Oh, you chop me. 

Alvin: Yep. Uh, so can you tell us a bit about mismatch events? This was the first company that you did after leaving UBS? 

Athena: Yes, that's right. So, [00:05:00] um, after I left UBS, I wanted a bit of a career change. So I've been financed for about six or seven years at that point in time.

Um, and then I had taken a short role at art Basel. Uh, so our Basel is a art fair, uh, that comes from Switzerland. And so at the time they were sitting up there in our we'll show in Hong Kong. And so I thought, you know, something that's really interesting. It sounds really fine. Why not give that a try? Uh, and so my main role was to help with their VIP program, uh, and assistant putting that together.

And, um, making sure that everything was in place when, um, the fair did begin. So, um, it gave me an insight into event, event planning. Um, and I thought it was really cool. It was really fun. Um, it's something that I'd never done before, but realized that I had the capabilities to do. And so after that, um, I think it was.

Really more happenstance. Um, there were a few [00:06:00] projects that came along, um, in the event planning, um, industry. And so I helped with a number of, uh, brand launches and, uh, product launches at the time in Hong Kong. And so, um, they started out with pretty big brands, but I started working more with smaller companies like nonprofits and startups.

And that's when I got my first taste for, um, Uh, working with a startup and, um, coming from Carnegie Mellon, uh, technology is something that has always been of interest to me. And so, um, you know, when I was working at mismatch, I made sure that I always positioned myself to be able to take on projects with new and interesting companies, especially in the tech world.

And so, uh, that's when I made the decision to move to Singapore. So this was about three years ago. And, um, I was looking at the startup ecosystem here. So, um, at the [00:07:00] time it was really something that was growing quite quickly and growing much more quickly than it wasn't Hong Kong. Right. And so, um, I looked at quite a number of different startups here, and I came across dr.

Anywhere. So at the time they hadn't launched their product, uh, yet. Um, but I had met with the founder and we had a few conversations and he was telling me about his vision about where the company would be going and what kind of products he wanted to create. And I felt very aligned with it. You know, I thought that, um, the healthcare system was very broken, you know, not just in Singapore, not just in Hong Kong, but you know, all across the world, even in New York where I was working, um, it's something that's very hard to navigate and especially as a consumer, so, um, you know, working, um, you know, the potential of working at a company where it would simplify the whole process and give me immediate access to healthcare provider was very attractive.

Um, and it was a [00:08:00] perfect stage as well. So, um, they were just preparing to launch products. Um, I would have been the third employee at the time. Um, so, you know, I jumped at the opportunity, so I'm pretty much within a month of meeting the founder. Um, I packed my bags and came to Singapore. And so from there everything grew very quickly.

Uh, so at the time telemedicine, Was really, um, just starting out in Singapore. Uh, we didn't have any competitors. There were maybe one or two, um, that were around in Singapore. Um, and there were wasn't even regulations around it. And so what we were doing was really, um, quite innovative and, um, it, it was, you know, kind of scary.

Um, I wouldn't lie, uh, cause we didn't know, we didn't know how people would receive the whole product, both on the consumer side and from the provider side as well. And so it was a very interesting journey and it wasn't easy. Um, you know, when we. We're first starting out. [00:09:00] So like, you know, within the first couple of months, uh, that I moved to Singapore and I was working there, um, we were trying to bring people on board and, you know, on, on a day to day basis, we'd been looking at our dashboard.

It'd be like, you know, one new user to users and we're just counting like, Oh my God, when are we gonna get to our a hundred users? So it was a very difficult experience. Um, and once we were able to find the right use cases, uh, then we started seeing growth very quickly. Um, you know, talking to different, uh, corporate partners, talking to different types of healthcare providers, um, we were able to then branch out and I think, you know, from there, uh, what then happened was a regulator has started to take notice.

So, you know, when you start showing them that you have the numbers and you have the traction, that's when they start caring and they realize that it's, it's something that they should look more deeply into. And that's when they started their regulatory sandbox, uh, to try to [00:10:00] understand the industry more and to understand, um, You know how they should be involved to regulate our activities.

And so I think with the introduction of the sandbox, it really legitimized what we're doing. Uh, and you know, on, on the consumer end, uh, we started seeing a lot more new users come in. A lot of doctors were more interested in signing onto our platform as well. And so I'd say. From there. Um, the whole concept of telemedicine really grew.

Um, and you know, today there are about maybe 20 new players in the market that are all in the human telemedicine space. So, um, yeah, I mean, that's something that happened within a span of three years. And especially now that we're entering a very interesting time with COVID-19. Um, it's proven, um, to really have a place in the traditional health care ecosystem.

Alvin: Okay. Um, so, so you said when you joined dr anywhere, there were you you're the employee they'll do that. [00:11:00] The two other cofounders were dead and you were employee number three, 

Athena: right? Yeah. 

Alvin: So, uh, the cofounder for w for, uh, was that doctor dr. 

Athena: White. So what is actually not a doctor? So he is a, um, finance professional.

So he actually find it background to get investment background. Um, so he actually wasn't full time, um, when I first joined. Um, so it was, uh, two other people, one on the product side, and then someone on the operation side. 

Alvin: So who was building out the tech at the time, or did you basically use like Skype or zoom and patch it together with some?

Athena: Oh yeah. I mean, at the time it was, um, it was the initial launch. So I'd say the product wasn't MVP and it was actually developed by a external agency. Um, but, um, we already had our [00:12:00] CTO at the time. So the idea was always to bring the whole system in house and to develop that in house. And so since then, um, they have been able to launch a fully, uh, a full system that was built in house.

Alvin: Okay. Yeah. The reason I'm asking is because, uh, one of the target audiences for this podcast, I, uh, I want to reach is early stage startup founder. So it was like, well, I wanna learn more and see like how we can help other founders. Learn how to like, get the, get themselves off the launchpad at early stage.

So I actually, I actually heard the same thing from another telemedicine company in Pakistan. They also hired an external agency to build their initial product. And even now they are working very heavily with them. So yeah, that was just something I was wondering. And yeah. And I that's the tech buck, but the other part is like, actually validating the idea and differentiating your business model from the other [00:13:00] competitors in the market.

So from what I understand, my doc, MyDoc in Singapore is also, they have been trying to do a telemedicine. Did they have been around for quite a few years or so? So around the same time that you launch. 

Athena: Yep. They had actually already been in the market for maybe about five or six years, um, when dr. Eddie were at launched.

Alvin: Yeah. So, uh, how can you tell us a bit about how you differentiate your business model from them when you went into, up to anywhere? 

Athena: Um, I'd say that. The business model was actually entirely different. So MyDoc is more of a B2B products. Whereas a DoctorAnywhere is much more B to C. And so, um, the way that we engage our consumers and the way that we had built the product was completely different.

So if you look at the evolution of dr, anywhere, we onboarded. So, so we looked at our, our [00:14:00] ecosystem and we would target two types of stakeholders. So one was consumer and the other were the doctors. Um, so. At the time we had, um, onboarded, a couple of, um, early adopters who were very keen on testing out telemedicine.

And so they were great supporters of ours. Um, and so from a supply side, um, we were quite comfortable that we had coverage, um, for any. Incoming bookings now, um, the harder a group to, to, um, gain traction with was consumers. Cause I think a lot of people, especially in Singapore, um, have a very fixed idea of how their medical journey looked like.

And that always involves a visit physical consultation where the doctor could see them. They could feel them and do all of the diagnostics on the spot. Um, so, you know, there was a lot of education that had to be done. And so I'd say that because [00:15:00] we're a purely B to C platform. Um, we were doing a lot of marketing, uh, so, you know, explaining the benefits of telemedicine, um, trying to establish what the use cases would be and communicating that to the consumers.

Um, My doc was taking a very different path. And so, um, you know, they ha they still had patients. They still had providers. Um, but to this day, uh, a key part of their business is working with corporate, such as insurers. And so, um, they do have a number of insurers that, um, they are actively working with right now.

And, um, they then, um, tailor their system to, um, you know, Allow these insurance policy holders to, uh, access to home medicine. So a very different approach. 

Alvin: So was this something that you discovered over over a period of time, like what they were doing and what you were doing and how you [00:16:00] differentiate it?

Or is it like consciously thought out in advance strategy? Uh, 

Athena: the truth is we, we knew what we wanted to do, and we knew what the capabilities of our product work. And we also knew the compares are out there. So at the time there was ring MD and there was my doc. Those are the biggest players in Singapore.

Um, we didn't consciously decide to take any approach. Uh, we had a strong belief, um, and that strong belief, what does that we want to directly, um, engage with our consumers and we wanted our consumers to. You know, have the right to choose what providers that they could access. And so, um, we, we didn't, um, go and talk to too many of the major medical groups, uh, or insurers at the time.

Um, what we did was to, to, you know, take a more, um, organic approach. So we would onboard clinics, we would onboard doctors, um, and then [00:17:00] we would then connect them to, uh, the patients. 

Alvin: Interesting. So, so, uh, you, you were there for about slightly past one year. What was the company like at the time that you left you?

You grew it from. 

Athena: So it was growing very quickly. Um, I'd say that, uh, at the time I left was after their series a, so, um, they had just gotten some funding and, um, the direction of the company was changing. Um, so we went from a, uh, Telmo some platform, so more of a platform player to, um, a online to offline ecosystem.

So we had introduced a marketplace and that is very much in line with our C. Um, a model, but, uh, we then started opening brick and mortar clinics as well. And so the idea was that, um, we, we understood the limitation of telemedicine, uh, and we wanted to [00:18:00] make sure that we had an additional touch point for all of our patients.

So for those that couldn't see a doctor online for whatever reason would have a touch point offline with doctor anywhere as well. Um, and so. I'd say that at the time I was leaving, it was, um, becoming a more holistic solution. Um, you had your marketplace where you could buy products. Um, so medical and wellness related products, uh, you could still see a, um, a doctor through video consult, uh, but you could also go to our clinic and see a doctor there.

Alvin: Um, did you identify any particular groups that were more likely to be early adopters? Let's say people who had to have frequent consults, maybe diabetic, diabetic patients or something like that. W with any 

Athena: one group that really stuck out to me were females. So, um, if you looked at the data. Um, for one reason or other, [00:19:00] um, females were more receptive to the idea of telemedicine.

Um, I don't know if it's because they were more aware of, you know, any changes in their body or because, um, they were looking for more convenience. Um, you know, it could be because they were juggling, um, you know, home life and work life and just needed easy access to a medical care. Um, or they were just more tech savvy.

Right? So, um, females were definitely a big group that we were trying to chase. Um, but definitely, I mean, um, what we saw and, you know, this is quite obvious is that it was the, um, you know, upperly mobile, um, professionals, uh, in their late twenties to early to mid thirties that were users of Talmud. But I'd say that, you know, over time and even looking at the demographics of student vets, um, that has changed quite a lot.

Um, I think generally people are just becoming more receptive to the idea [00:20:00] and, um, you don't see any, um, you know, clusters of, of, uh, demographics in terms of where users. 

Alvin: Yeah. But, uh, One thing I took away from a few marketing with agent podcast was that they found that behavior related targeting was better for them than demographic related targeting.

Was there anything like that and you notice any particular behaviors? 

Athena: Um, I wouldn't say behavior, but conditions definitely. Uh, so what we started to doing and what we're doing now as well to embed is you want to target, um, Patients or, you know, Jen patients in general, um, question conditions. And so, um, for us, a big part of our business right now, um, is chronic disease management.

So these are people who tend to know, uh, what illnesses they have and understand what it is, um, and are, um, on [00:21:00] medication, um, and are bargain hunters. So they are looking for easy access to medical providers, and they're looking for ways to save money. And so what we found is that they're quite receptive to Thomason because, um, I'd say the quality of care doesn't change.

Um, but they're able to save on, you know, um, tangible costs, which are consultation fees and, um, medic medication costs, but also on intangibles, like, you know, um, Travel time, um, the stress of having to take your pet to the, to the clinic. So, uh, for us, what we've seen is that, uh, targeting chronic disease patients are, are, is, is quite good for us.

Alvin: Interesting. So, uh, let's move back to the timeline after you left dr. Anyway, you, you work as a, as a consultant for a Pontiac land group and yeah. And visa for pass health for, you're still an advisor there. I'm looking at your LinkedIn right now. Uh, so [00:22:00] you're doing this and then you, you, you launched zoom vet just last year in July of 2019.

So again, tell us a bit about your, what you're doing in between. 

Athena: Yeah, so, I mean, um, I think. An interesting factoid is that my co founder brace, she is actually a doctor that I met while I was working at dr. Anywhere. So she was a GP who was practicing on the platform. So we had met and we had clicked because we both have cats.

And it's something that we talk about all the time. So I don't know if you're a pet owner, but we are crazy cat ladies. And so it's, it's something that really bonded us. Um, and so, you know, we, we were chatting and this is when I was still at operating room. And, you know, we had come to this realization that there was no solution.

There was no innovation when it came to veterinary care and, you know, wouldn't it be cool if we did something similar. Um, but for. Pets. So that's [00:23:00] actually when, um, the idea was seeded in us. Uh, so, so it was a while back and it's always something that we wanted to do. And so when I was leaving dr anywhere, um, you know, I rang her up and I said, Hey, you know, the idea about.

Um, the pet Thomas and let's just do it. And so, um, we, we had to start planning it basically right after I had left dr. Anywhere. And, um, at the time I took some consulting jobs, but the idea was always to, um, launch this telemedicine platform. 

Alvin: So, so you, this, um, with zoom vet, you, you had the idea all along, even while you work in Delta.

Anyway, it's taking those same. Uh, principles behind Octa anywhere, but applying that to a bet, like, uh, like, um, for pets. So that was the whole Genesis of the idea. And then there was no one else doing this in Singapore at the time I did try the search. I didn't really find anything. 

Athena: Yeah. I mean, there's no pure telemedicine [00:24:00] player in Singapore.

So I mean, when it comes to healthcare in general, right? So whether it's for humans, whether it's for pets, some form of telemedicine has been practiced for years. So it could be through text message through WhatsApp, through FaceTime. So, um, healthcare providers have always been in the practice of connecting with our patients outside of their clinic.

Um, but it's never been institutionalized. So, um, what we're finding and based on our experience, Intel medicine before, uh, in the human space is that there is a safe way to practice tele-medicine and there's a way that makes it, um, a lot more attractive and, you know, just, just, um, it gives a better experience for your patients and your pet owners.

Right? So what we wanted to do, um, given that there was no similar, um, company in Singapore was to take, um, principles from human health. And bring that to the veterinary world. Um, you know, the interesting thing about [00:25:00] that veterinary world is that it's, it's very traditional. So, um, there have been very little innovations in the last decade or so.

So, um, when you look at the way that these vet clinics are run, Um, it's almost like looking back in time at how, um, a GP clinic was maybe 20 years ago. Uh, so you know, what we're trying to do is to introduce this platform as a way to support that ecosystem, you know, how can you connect with, um, your pet owners in a way that's safe, right?

Both from a technological standpoint and both from a medical standpoint and provide the services that they need. And so what we did, actually, we took a bit of time in understanding this ecosystem before we even, um, started developing our products. So we wanted to understand what the pain points were.

Right. So, um, I think it's common knowledge that that's are overworked and underpaid. Um, you [00:26:00] know, they tend to have to do a lot more than your. You know, your, your normal GP would have to do. Um, and you know, they, the, the expectations are a lot higher from a pen owner perspective of, um, what they would expect from that as well.

So we wanted to see how we can use technology to solve a lot of these problems. So the way that, um, we designed an event is very different from any of the telemedicine providers out there for, um, humans. And I'd say that we are much more high touch. Um, you know, what we realized is that technology can only solve a part of the problem.

Um, and really we didn't want to compete with fat clinics. Uh, we realized that we needed to support them. So I'd say that as a company, we're probably about 70%, uh, technology and 30% service. So we actually have very in depth relationships with our clinics and we, um, you know, go there very often. We know their staff very well.

[00:27:00] And we would try to help out where we can. And the idea is to not only help the that's and the staff at the clinics, but also ensure that pet owners have a better journey and also a better understanding of the type of care they're receiving. 

Alvin: So, uh, you still have a lot of partnerships with all the different vet clinics and, uh, you, you you're basically like a technology solution for them to connect.

To customers through tele medicine. 

Athena: Yep. That's right. 

Alvin: Uh, Oh yeah. Like, okay. Before we start recording, you told me a bit about your own, uh, experience with your cats or you paid for the consultation yourself. Uh, and then you brought after the initial consult, you actually brought your cat over and, uh, to the clinic and the, the, the physically, uh, inspect her as well.

So that's how the typical [00:28:00] consultation would work late. There's the initial consult with a two video then after that, uh, physical consult, if, if required. 

Athena: So I'd say that's maybe about 30% of our cases. Um, so what typically happens is, um, we have to assess each and every case when they come in. Uh, so we need to see whether we can actually solve their problem through telemedicine.

So if we assess that it cannot be, then we will immediately refer them to a clinic. And usually that would be to one of our partner clinics. Um, that is very low percentage. So I'd say maybe about 10 to 15% of our cases, uh, for the rest of them, uh, they would then proceed to see our events. Um, so there are various natures of how.

Um, the, the consultation could go and various to protect the outcomes, but I'd say generally, um, we are able to diagnose, um, [00:29:00] because a lot of the issues that come in are, are quite common issues. So, you know, um, my. Cat has some issues with their fur or, um, their skin is very itchy. Um, you know, they might have some light diarrhea, vomiting, so the conditions are quite repetitive.

And these are cases that our vets are quite comfortable diagnosing for a platform. Uh, but for anything that's more involved and require diagnostics, um, that's when we would issue a referral and send them to one of our partner clinics. Um, and the idea is that, you know, we do have that physical touch point for them, um, to, uh, see a vet in person, but after the clinic consult, they can monitor, um, the pet's condition through telemedicine and also provide, uh, continue providing medication for that same condition as well.

Alvin: So that is where like the chronic condition management comes in. Also, 

Athena: it can be some acute as well. So, um, you know, if. Your cat has been [00:30:00] prescribed with a two week course of antibiotics. And, um, you know, as a pet owner, I want to see whether it's work or not, but I don't really know. Um, I might be inclined to do a followup and speak to the, the.

That and the truth is, um, a lot of times it doesn't even require having, um, the pet being in front of the camera. It's really just for the pet owner to speak to a vet or to a medical professional to understand, um, you know, what the outcome was and whether a further, uh, consultation is required. 

Alvin: Oh, interesting.

So was it, uh, through the process of, of doing zoom that you, you go by the idea of these conditions or was it. Through your own experience as a pet owner that you understood the law of the conditions don't necessarily have to be refer. Um, would 

Athena: I say that being a pet owner has been a very difficult experience?

Um, I didn't understand a lot, you know, um, their physiology, their, [00:31:00] um, conditions are very different and the other thing is they can't talk to you, so you never really know what's going on. Right. And so I, I, and like many other pet owners would just Google a lot of times. I never knew when I needed to go to a clinic.

And the truth is it's, it's very difficult, you know? Um, I don't drive. Uh, so it would involve me having to call a grab, making sure that they're okay with me bringing cats and. Um, and then going there, the cats being mad at me, there's lot scratching. There's a lot of running away, so it's never a very pleasant experience.

Um, and so for as much as I could, I would try to either Google and find a solution or I wouldn't WhatsApp, my friends who are vets to see what we could do. Right. But, um, it, I mean, it, you, you still need, uh, professional advice at the end of the day. And so having this platform, I am, you know, uh, I use it a lot.

I use it very often and I, as I mentioned, I always pay for my own consults. Um, but it's, it's really helped me as a pet owner as well. Uh, because there are a lot of [00:32:00] questions where, um, I would try to look online, but never really found the answer. Um, you know, now I have a very direct, uh, link, uh, to event and, um, I'm able to see my preferred vet, the one that knows my cats very well.

And there's never a dumb question there. They're always very willing to hear me out and answer my question. So yeah, I would say that I've become a much better and more responsible pet owner. Um, and it's given me a bit more confidence, um, in terms of my parenting skills to my cats as well. 

Alvin: So you, you actually, uh, You built zoom, zoom that in part to solve some of your own problems and you understood the problems with pet ownership very well.

And then the pains that you experienced, and then you put that into zoom to see how he could streamline that whole experience. 

Athena: Exactly. I mean, you know, it's, it's something that we were very passionate about from the beginning [00:33:00] because we were pet owners and when grace and I founded this, we allocated maybe about $10,000 and we said, let's just.

Do an experiment. Um, let's try to understand what's going on, what the ecosystem looks like, but let's just build the product out for us. Right. And so we connected with the vet, um, in the early days, uh, who was able to give us some advice on how the, um, how the platform should run, what the operations would look like, how clinics work.

And, um, we then presented our data to regulators as well. So, you know, we were very bootstrapped. It was something, it was more of a passion project to see if it would work. And if anything, we would have a platform where we could, you know, find solutions to our own problems. And so, um, a lot of it was happenstance.

So, you know, we, we started it, we started realizing that there were other people like us out there. And so we didn't have to do a lot of marketing. To, you know, to educate people on what we're trying to do. Um, you know, the more we shared, [00:34:00] um, you know, the further the message got. And so the experience was very different from dr.

Anywhere, um, where it was much more commercial. Um, you know, you're dealing with insurers are dealing with medical groups, um, very bureaucratic system, uh, when it comes to the Penn community, it's just a lot of it has to do with emotions. It passion, um, people. Especially pet owners are very active in social media.

So you can go on Facebook. There are a lot of groups. Um, you know, you go on Instagram, you post a cute cat picture, you'll get 10,000 responses. Right. So, um, you know, the growth has been very different. Um, and so we were able to really be a B to C product, uh, and grow quite quickly that way. Um, and now I think we are more established.

Uh, we definitely have more users now. Um, I think the medical community has taken notice of us. Um, this is now when we're shifting gears to become a bit, uh, more. I'd [00:35:00] say B to B to C to cater to, um, those users in the middle. So these users would be in events, the clinics, um, even, you know, we're starting to see more insurers starting to provide, um, had policies as well.

So engaging them to see how we could be involved as well. So, um, the evolution is very different. Um, but I'd say that it's result of the industry 

Alvin: itself. You mentioned that your bootstrap, you put in 10,000. 10,000 total or 10,000 each from each of you. 

Athena: So, uh, that was a good question. So at the time I'd say that it was probably be about 10,000 total.

I mean, once we started growing, we realized the potential of, um, this whole products. We obviously put it a little bit more money. Um, but you know, in the first couple of months, there's really only $10,000. Uh, neither of us were full time, uh, nor did we have any staff. Right. So it was just, you know, cobbling it together and making it work.

Alvin: So the 10,000 went [00:36:00] to some outsource developers who are building out. Exactly. 

Athena: And I think it made it a lot easier because we knew exactly what we wanted. We knew what the backend of a telemedicine app should look like. Uh, we knew, um, you know, to a certain degree how, um, our users would need to interact with each other.

Um, and also, um, you know, what type of, um, Uh, vendors we would have to use. So I think there was a bit, I mean, there was a lot of clarity and vision, and so we were able to put that together quite quickly and, uh, quite cheaply as well. 

Alvin: So at this point, uh, is, is just slightly under a year. Since you launch, have you been thinking of raising any money?

Athena: Um, so we did raise a seed round. I mean, it's, it's just friends and family. Um, It's always a difficult question, right? Fundraising. Uh, so what do we want to [00:37:00] be? You know, what our exit strategy is the difference between working in that care and working in human healthcare is that the margins are, um, a bit more generous in veterinary care.

So, uh, what that means is we are probably going to be able to, uh, break even quite soon. Um, and see a profit by the end of the year. And so the impetus for us is very different. Um, you know, do we want to play the valuation game, um, and, you know, focus on market share and growing, uh, users, or do we want to focus more on the craft of the products, um, and focus on our existing users and making sure that they continue to have the same type of experience, um, which is very high touch.

And so. I'd say the answer for you is that yes, we will be fundraising. Um, because we do see a lot of potential and we want to move quickly. Um, there are starting to [00:38:00] be other compares sprouting up, um, across Southeast Asia. So we've heard of maybe one or two, uh, they're out there in the market. And so we have a strong belief in the products.

Uh, we, um, have a good brand right now. So, um, the idea is to grow and to, uh, cover other markets. Um, and the opportunities are already coming up right now. And in order to ensure that we can do that, um, some funding, uh, will be required. So we are starting that process right now. Um, and we should, um, you know, probably.

We'll be aiming to close Hugh four maybe of this year. Um, but for now I think we want to take it slow. Um, we're not hurrying too much into fundraising. Um, we are very lucky because we're still seeing money coming in and we're still seeing consultations being booked through the platform. And our partners are also very receptive to what we're doing as well.

Um, so I'd say it's a measured [00:39:00] approach to approach to fundraising. 

Alvin: Your current pricing model is based on a commission of each consultation. 

Athena: Uh, yeah, so we have a platform fee and we will share that with the 

Alvin: okay. Interesting. So, um, I want to be mindful of the time, because you said you have to leave around six, so yeah, it's very interesting.

You did all this in under a year. So can you tell, tell me a bit about how, like, what your scale due to the. Um, I saw on the site, you have about five full time employees around there. Yep. 

Athena: Yep. Yep. So, um, we are, let me think about this. So right now, uh, we are at our seventh employee right now. Uh, so things are growing quite quickly.

Um, I'd say the bulk of. Our staff is mainly concentrated in the medical operations side and the marketing side. Um, and it makes sense because we are a B to C [00:40:00] products, but we also take a lot of care in ensuring that, um, we are, um, supporting our customers and we're supporting our bets. Um, yeah. I don't know if that answers your question.

Alvin: So I think one of the, uh, final few questions. But before we go to the quick fire round is yeah. So how has Corvette impacted your business or you you've told me a bit before we started recording, but let's, if you're finding a course, 

Athena: I'd say that COVID has been an interesting experience. Um, a lot of our partners, um, Are, uh, you know, suffering, uh, as a result of, um, the whole situation, um, sales have gone down.

Traffic has not down quite a lot, uh, luckily for us because we're an online platform and we provide remote care. Uh, we have seen quite a spike, um, in the number of bookings coming in. So I'd say in the last, um, month or so [00:41:00] our sales have gone up about a hundred, 150%. So, um, that's good news for us. Um, the reality is that, um, I think things will not return back to normal, um, in punching first, um, you know, a lot of companies are still very unsure about what the working arrangements will be.

And in fact, a lot of large companies have announced that they will, um, Uh, they will continue to work from home arrangement, uh, which means for us, I think, um, people will still continue to rely a lot on online services. And, you know, with this whole situation, I think generally people have gotten a taste for what, you know, online services could do for them.

And the types of convenience it can bring. Um, you know, a lot of the users that had never even thought about using us before are not repeat users. Uh, and they see the value in what we're doing and they're very willing to spread the word and, uh, you know, help us explain and educate a lot of [00:42:00] their friends and family as well.

So, you know, I, I think that over the next couple of months, um, we should continue to see the growth that we have, um, in the last couple of weeks. And I think that, um, it, it. You know, time for a lot of businesses to really think about how they can improve the customer journey and, you know, adapt to, um, this whole paradigm of, you know, people being a bit more cautious going out and you know, how they can, um, bring better care through, um, online platforms.

What's 

Alvin: your main growth channel right now? Social media, like you're quite active on Instagram. 

Athena: Yeah. Um, I'd say social media. So Instagram has brought us a lot of, um, users, but, um, Facebook has, has been, um, Probably the best child for us. Um, head owners tend to be very active on [00:43:00] Facebook. So there are a lot of check groups.

Uh, there are a lot of specialty groups for like, you know, different grades. Um, and so we are quite active there as well. Um, and we've seen a lot of users coming through that 

Alvin: and then social, like something you yourself participate in organically. So it's not like a pate. You don't pay someone just to go around the Facebook groups too?

Athena: No, no, no. Yeah. I think, um, it's definitely more genuine. Uh, if we are able to have a presence online. So like a lot of users actually know me. So a lot of times when they're calling support line, it actually gets redirected to me and I'm talking to them. And they'll also get a lot of emails from me. So, um, it's something that we want to control.

Um, I, I definitely don't believe, especially when it comes to pet owners in outsourcing these types of activities. Um, I think. You get a lot of information [00:44:00] about your users. What's important to them and, um, you know, what type of services they want. And so if you aren't personally involved, um, it makes it that much harder.

And it also means that you won't be, um, you know, creating a product that fits in with your target audience and you probably won't be able to, um, be flexible enough in terms of, um, You know, directing what your business model should be and making sure that it's adapted to the, with end user in mind. 

Alvin: So what, uh, what area do you think you are going to hire out more in the next few months before you raise your around?

Is it the technology department or is it more of the marketing site technology? 

Athena: I'd say, yeah, definitely technology. So we are already looking to hire. Some in house, but also in the medical operation side. Um, I think that this is a team [00:45:00] that, um, is very unique. So, um, what a lot of our, I wouldn't say competitors, but you know, similar companies out there don't focus as much on support as we do.

Um, because they're looking for automations, they're looking to, um, You know, improve efficiency. I'd say that, um, when it comes to healthcare and when it comes to pet care, um, you really cannot neglect the human touch. And so, uh, we are looking to hire more on supporting the medical operations side, uh, and making sure we're bringing in people who can, um, you know, convey, uh, the type of, um, quality of care that we intended to bring to our customers.

Alvin: Okay. Interesting. So very impressive July launch in July, 2019, and then scaled to seven full time staff members today and aiming to fundraise in Q fall of 2020. So thanks a lot. I think. So let's just do the [00:46:00] quick fire rounds. So I just asked a quick question and you just answer off the top. So what was your favorite book?

It can be a business book, a non-business book, 

Athena: the unbearable lightness of being. 

Alvin: Oh, by Milan Kundera. Yes 

Athena: that's. Okay. 

Alvin: Uh, what was your favorite tool that you use for building your company? 

Athena: My favorite tool. So I recently discovered notion and I've been forcing everyone to use it. Um, but it's been quite useful.

What, 

Alvin: what do you use it for? 

Athena: Okay. Everything. So, I mean, you know, everything from as simple as tracking my tasks to taking notes, to creating onboarding document. For the team as well 

Alvin: was some founders around that, you know, personally, when you think are doing interesting 

Athena: things. Oh, so I'm a company that really like a shot back.

I mean, this, something is coming to everyone knows. Right. But we recently met up with them and they were sharing, you know, their [00:47:00] plans for the next 12 to 24 months. And I think it's really interesting the type of company they built, um, the way that they've grown, um, you know, from, it was a very. I mean, the idea was very big, but it's very labor intensive, but the way that they were able to get vendors on board, so methodically is quite impressive.

Alvin: What's one lesson you would give yourself at the start of this whole startup journey. 

Athena: What's one lesson I would give myself. Oh, okay. Um, I'd say that, um, The most difficult part. Um, and I think my cofounder will kill me for saying this was learning to work with her. Right. Um, up until this point, I've never had to work so closely with someone and make so many important decisions with, you know, concerning money concerning, uh, the future of the company.

Um, you know, down to, uh, what [00:48:00] partners we're going to work with. You know, I might disagree with her or she might disagree with me, but, you know, I think. That, that really was the hardest part and something that I underestimated, uh, coming into this. And so we had known each other, um, in a social capacity.

Right. But, you know, we had never worked together before, um, to this degree. And so it took us a while to find her groove, but I'd say that, you know, we've gotten to a place where we are working together quite well. And we've gotten to know each others. Quirks and, um, it's, it's been a very enlightening experience.

I think it involves a lot of communication, some emotion, um, but ultimately it's about listening and compromise. And so I'd say, you know, if I, if I could have given myself a lesson going into this was, you know, focused on that relationship and focusing. Um, nurturing it. 

Alvin: Yeah. I think that's a very important point.

A lot of startup founders overlook, like even in Y Combinator, they seem most [00:49:00] startups that go through Y Combinator break up because of co-founder issue. Uh, but a lot of people don't really talk about that as much. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Thanks a lot at dinner. So, uh, Oh, I did an interview now that, you know, once it's out.

Okay. 

Athena: Cool. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

Alvin: Thank you. Bye 

Athena: bye.