0:00

Hey everybody, it's Tiffany D. Cross.

0:01

You're a host of Across Generations, and I want to thank

0:04

you guys so much for tuning in every single

0:06

week. I want to take a moment to shout

0:08

out those of you who have taken the time to rate

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and I really really appreciate it.

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So I want to thank you. Susie seven

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five seven. He said, you love this podcast,

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and each and every episode has resonated with

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you, and I just want to thank you for saying that,

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because that's the goal of the show. We want to resonate

0:26

with you, So keep tuning in and hopefully

0:28

we'll keep resonating. Welcome

0:35

to a Cross Generations where the voices

0:37

of black women unite.

0:39

I'm your host, Tiffany Cross.

0:41

Tiffany Crossfy, we gather a season

0:44

elder myself as the middle generation,

0:46

and a vibrant young soul for engaging

0:48

intergenerational conversations. Prepared

0:51

to engage or hear perspections that

0:53

no one else is having.

0:55

You know how we do We create magic?

0:58

Magic.

1:00

Hi everybody, I'm Tiffany Cross and welcome to

1:02

another episode of Across Generations.

1:05

Okay, what I'm about to say, would

1:07

shame my grandmother where she's still with

1:09

us. But I have not been

1:11

to church in years, and

1:14

I grew up going to church pretty regularly. I would

1:16

go with my mom on occasion, but with

1:18

my grandmother I would go multiple times

1:20

a week. I sang in children's choir

1:23

in the Sunday ritual of getting dressed

1:25

up and seeing the community really

1:27

held such predo in the souls of black

1:29

folk. It was our orthodoxy.

1:32

Really, it was a place of solace and

1:34

safety, and to be honest, I was

1:36

really weaned on the rich tradition of

1:39

church folk. I mean, when you think about

1:41

it, church folk during enslavement,

1:43

the Jim Crow era, organizing our people,

1:46

the Black church played a very significant

1:48

role.

1:48

And even though being.

1:50

On those hallow grounds watching people

1:52

catch the holy ghosts that I just could never

1:54

seem to catch despite trying my hardest

1:57

and feeling goosebumps each time the choir

1:59

belted out the melodic note of praise,

2:02

I always had questions like

2:04

to creationism and evolution coexist.

2:08

And the carnage caused by

2:10

or in the name of Christianity was

2:13

massive, and the brutal

2:15

weight by it being literally

2:18

beat into us by our captors who

2:20

murdered us, raped us, beat us,

2:22

all while praising this blue eyed Jesus.

2:25

As a young person, I can't lie. It gave me pause.

2:28

Now let me just say I

2:30

do believe in God. I'm not arrogant

2:32

enough to believe that human beings are the most

2:34

supreme being in a galaxy. There

2:37

must be a higher power. That's a hope that I hold

2:39

at least, and that's there's some sense

2:41

of purpose to all of this. Really, But I'm

2:44

not the only one who's been skipping

2:46

Sunday morning service and even

2:48

skipping bedside Baptists. You know who you are

2:50

out there. The rate of college aid

2:52

students leaving the Black church is in significant

2:54

decline. According to a twenty twenty three

2:57

Pew Research Center study, forty nine

2:59

percent of Black millennials

3:01

and forty six percent of Black gen

3:03

zers report that they rarely or

3:06

never attend religious services.

3:08

Now, I can feel

3:11

a lot of you out there receiving this

3:13

with judgment and disdain

3:15

and saying that's the problem with those young folks.

3:18

I'm sure my grandmother is in heaven echoing your

3:20

sentiments. But for me, I

3:23

just I don't know that I'm certain

3:25

I stop feeling spiritually fed by

3:28

church, and as I navigate my belief

3:30

system.

3:30

Now it remains the question a

3:32

journey if you will.

3:34

So I'm gonna ask, can we all

3:36

just take a breath and have an honest

3:38

conversation on black folks

3:41

in church? And I am so happy

3:43

to have two people to help me do that. We

3:45

have Edith Gray Now. Edith is fifty

3:47

six years old. She's a divorced mother of two

3:50

and the co hosts of a popular YouTube show,

3:53

In the Cut. She was raised in a military

3:55

family with roots in Southern Baptist beliefs

3:57

The Woman after my Own Heart. She attended church

4:00

almost every Sunday from the age

4:02

of seven up through college. Now,

4:04

after the passing of her father, she began

4:06

to question religion and really

4:08

the existence of a God at all.

4:11

Now it is college education and beyond.

4:13

She now believes there is too much

4:15

scientific evidence to dispel

4:18

what she previously learned from

4:20

her Bible studies, and for

4:22

the past decade she pretty much removed

4:24

her religious beliefs and she

4:27

does not feel that she will regain her belief

4:29

in God. She's also a member of

4:31

a black non believer based

4:34

organization based in Atlanta. So on

4:37

the other side of this, we have Be Simone.

4:40

Now, a lot of you may already know Be Simone. She's

4:42

a thirty three year old actress, comedian,

4:44

and podcast host of her solo show

4:47

Let's Try This Again.

4:48

She was raised in Dallas, Texas. What you know

4:50

about them sexist girls? She was raised

4:53

in a Christian household. Her father is

4:55

a pastor, and although raised in the church, she

4:57

admits to having just found Christ

4:59

and the past year having experienced

5:02

a heavy amount of loss and professional

5:04

criticism. She leans into her face

5:06

being the reason she was able to see the light

5:08

at the end of the tunnel. So this is going

5:10

to be a conversation.

5:11

Take off those judgment hats and pull

5:13

up and see, because we're going to get into it.

5:15

I have to be honest. When we were booking this show,

5:18

I really.

5:18

Expected that we would find a seasoned, older

5:20

woman who was devout Christian

5:23

and all the younger people were going to say,

5:25

Nope, I don't go to church. So I was really like, yeah,

5:29

right, which I think makes for an interesting

5:31

conversation. So I will

5:33

start with you because I do think it is

5:35

a rarity to come across

5:37

black people not an impossibility, but a

5:40

rarity to come across Black people who just

5:42

are adamant they do not believe. So

5:45

I'm curious for you, why

5:48

don't you believe?

5:50

I think the main thing is I

5:53

don't believe because there's just not sufficient

5:57

evidence.

5:58

For me to see

6:00

to see to

6:03

see.

6:04

The workings of this supernatural

6:06

power that we talk about

6:08

all the time. And

6:10

for me, it's just easier to

6:13

say, Okay, the evidence isn't there.

6:16

I'm okay. I see the

6:19

handiwork of human beings

6:21

on this planet every day, the good

6:23

and the bad, and I know that

6:26

humans are capable of doing good.

6:29

And there's just too many

6:31

inconsistencies with

6:33

a belief in the supernatural power. That just

6:36

made me say, okay, I'm good.

6:38

We can, we can. We can move on with

6:40

with this.

6:41

Was there something a point in your life I think

6:43

you attribute to your father passing?

6:45

It was it was around the

6:47

time my father passed. I was.

6:50

I still had a belief in God, and

6:53

it wasn't necessarily his passing

6:57

per se, but it was just a

6:59

gradual look at the world

7:01

and you know, again, things

7:04

just didn't add up for me. So

7:08

that was what really started me questioning

7:11

you know. For instance, we

7:14

hear all the bad news in the world. We

7:16

see children being harmed

7:18

all the time. We see even

7:20

the church participating in this harmonies

7:23

children. And I

7:26

just was questioning, why would a god

7:28

who knows everything, who's

7:30

all powerful, allows

7:33

such a thing to happen. Either one he

7:35

doesn't know, so then he's not all knowing, or

7:38

two he knows.

7:40

You just don't care. Now that's that's a problem.

7:43

Yeah, I have to say.

7:46

Cause I hear you, I

7:49

understand that feeling.

7:50

I don't necessarily have those I

7:53

hear you. I do too. I

7:55

have questions though I'm interested.

7:57

I'm not here to debunk anybody's I'm here

7:59

to talk and listen. And I

8:01

just I grew up in the church, so my dad's

8:03

a pastor and I and I

8:06

have been hurt by the church. I have been

8:08

hurt by growing up in my house, you

8:10

know what I mean. So I am no

8:12

longer putting my faith in people. And that's

8:14

when I went on my own journey to see,

8:16

why do I believe what I believe because

8:18

I was raised that way, because I was taught

8:20

that way, because my friends believe.

8:23

And the answer was I believe because I was raised that

8:25

way, and that wasn't a good enough answer for me. So

8:28

that's when I went on my own journey. But I have a question

8:30

for you. When you believed

8:32

in God before you became atheists?

8:35

Did you ever why

8:37

did you believe in God prior to atheism?

8:39

Was it because you were raised that way or did you have an

8:41

encounter? Did you have a feeling? Did you

8:43

have a knowing? Because I feel

8:45

like I believed in God up until

8:50

really almost two years ago. It's super recent.

8:53

I believed because I was raised that way, and

8:55

that wasn't enough for me. It was like I never had

8:57

an encounter with my creator. I never yeah,

9:00

like, oh that was God, that was God. But I was more religious

9:03

than relationship. And I feel like recently

9:05

I found a relationship with

9:07

Jesus Christ through seeking him. So I

9:09

want to know your experience before atheism,

9:12

why you said you believed?

9:14

Why did you believe?

9:15

I think it was mostly because

9:18

that was the expectations

9:20

of society of my family. I

9:22

grew up, like you said, going to church every

9:24

Sunday. My mother was raised by a

9:26

Baptist minister from Texas. All

9:29

of her sither family or ministers, and

9:32

it was just the

9:34

thing that was culturally

9:36

binding also, So

9:38

for these reasons, I didn't really question it.

9:42

It was a good fabric, good

9:44

network. I

9:46

have no you know, like I say, these networks,

9:49

and Tiffany had said this earlier, these networks

9:51

have helped black people through the

9:53

years a lot. So I

9:56

respect that about the church as a

9:58

cultural glue for

10:00

black people. We didn't have much else,

10:02

right, So does

10:05

that answer your question a little

10:07

bit?

10:07

Okay? Yeah, I'm just yeah,

10:09

because you said a lot.

10:12

Yeah, and that is you know, one sentence,

10:14

And I'm curious one, how did

10:16

the church hurt you? If I

10:19

would say, if

10:21

you have a relationship with any human, you're going to

10:24

be hurt because we're human. So

10:26

I think a lot of people put the church on a pedestal

10:28

because we are I don't

10:31

say we. I'm back in the church now, but the church

10:33

is a place where it's supposed

10:35

to be godly people, right, and so

10:37

when you get hurt by somebody that you put on

10:39

this pedestal to be better or more spiritual

10:42

or less human, it

10:45

hurts more. So Yeah,

10:47

I mean, I think the people in the church are just human.

10:50

And I'm not any longer

10:52

worshiping a pastor a man in a church,

10:55

a deacon.

10:56

Usher, I'm worshiping

10:58

God.

10:59

So I can't put my face in man any longer

11:01

because man will fail you time after time.

11:03

I don't care if it's the pastor, I don't care

11:05

if it's the church mother,

11:07

the first lady. I do believe that

11:10

they're they're human. So I'm

11:12

no longer putting the church on a pedestal

11:15

for my salvation. You know, I can understand

11:17

that because a lot of people will say, you

11:19

know, I don't go to church anymore because.

11:23

Yeah, you know, I don't go to church anymore.

11:25

Yeah, absolutely,

11:27

But it's like, but that's not why you

11:29

should have been going to church in the first place.

11:31

You you're trying to grow.

11:32

You went to the restaurant, got food poisoning, but you still

11:35

go out to eat, you know.

11:36

Yeah, you know I had that.

11:38

But you said something else that I found interesting

11:40

that you did not have a relationship with Jesus

11:42

until you sought him, Like, in

11:45

very basic practical terms for

11:47

someone who may not believe, what does that look

11:49

like? Yeah, like I said, I grew up in the church,

11:52

and so

11:54

twenty last year, two

11:57

November twenty twenty two, I started asking myself

11:59

the question why do I believe what I believe?

12:01

Why am I not atheists? Why am I not do this? Why

12:04

am I not Muslim? Why do I not believe

12:06

in christal? You

12:08

know why I do out that? Were you going through

12:10

something? I had a friend

12:13

who her articulation of God.

12:15

I envied her faith.

12:18

I'm like, okay, I'm a

12:20

Christian, but my face ain't

12:22

like that. And for

12:24

me to say I believe in something, my faith

12:27

had to be heightened like I wasn't okay

12:29

with everybody else's faith around

12:32

me. They had a knowing. It wasn't just

12:34

like a belief, It was a knowing. And

12:36

I called three of my mentors in

12:39

in the faith. Want to be my dad who's

12:42

a pastor, my friend's mom at the

12:44

time, and Et shout out to

12:46

Et the hip hop preacher, and.

12:49

Yeah listener,

12:51

y Google. Y'all were

12:53

not talking about No,

12:56

No, no somebody now he is one

12:58

of the biggest motivational speaker in the world.

13:00

But I asked them all the same question,

13:02

going on this journey to find Jesus Christ for

13:04

myself, Why do y'all

13:06

believe what you believe?

13:08

Why are you Christian? Why do you believe in Jesus.

13:10

And I had our conversations

13:12

with all of them on separate occasions, and it all boiled

13:14

down to two things encounter

13:18

faith and two

13:20

of them sat evidence. So

13:25

I did my own research. But I know you

13:27

guys, I am not a scholar. I don't know Greek.

13:30

I would love to go to seminary school

13:32

just to get more information. But my belief

13:35

now is rooted and encounter. Because

13:37

I finally got to my wits end

13:40

from like the worst

13:42

year of my life and truly opening

13:45

my heart and asking God.

13:47

I had a hard conversation with him, like

13:49

I trusted everything, and I'm gonna tell y'all whath I see it.

13:52

I was like, I am so sick of this shit, Like

13:55

I am so sick of not knowing. I'm so sick

13:57

of not being having

13:59

a anchered in my face swaying.

14:01

I want to be anchered in whatever believe it I believe

14:03

in. If I'm Atheist, I want to be anchored. If

14:05

I'm Buddhists, I want to be anchored. If I'm Christian, I

14:07

want to be anchored. So I was

14:09

not okay with how I felt, and it

14:12

took me months to actually I

14:14

sat with God. What do you do when you have a relationship

14:16

with somebody? You sit with them, you listen to them, we respect

14:19

their boundaries, you.

14:20

Talk to them.

14:20

I had never looked at my relationship

14:23

my religion as a relationship, and I started

14:25

to do that and I seeked him and I found him.

14:27

He showed me who he.

14:28

Was instantly like, literally,

14:30

what did that look like? How did he find you? How did he

14:33

show you? Did you literally see somebody

14:35

standing before you? Was it in physical no?

14:37

Right? But those are no pact

14:40

people.

14:41

And I'm going to share more of this on my my platform

14:43

because I've never.

14:44

Related to your platform.

14:45

So we yes, my

14:48

my podcast, which is new, my solo podcast,

14:50

Let's try this again, would be simone.

14:52

And is it about religion? No?

14:54

Okay no, but you will talk about this, Yeah, I'll

14:56

talk about my experience. It's about trying

14:58

anything again, whether it's a mayor or a

15:00

friendship or a business.

15:01

Idea, just resilience in life.

15:03

Let's try It's my second podcast.

15:05

I'm trying to get out, you know. But

15:08

yeah, I had an encounter, and I

15:10

think once you open up your

15:12

heart to receiving it and not I

15:14

think a lot of people play with God, like okay,

15:18

if you real, show me you real. God

15:20

doesn't owe us anything. He doesn't owe

15:22

us that. Let's like go into your parents and mean like, if

15:24

you love me, mom, give me a thousand dollars. If

15:26

you love me, girl, I pray

15:29

for you, I love you, move like I

15:31

love you in so many other ways than this.

15:33

So I didn't make it a game with God.

15:35

I was truly vulnerable. My heart was open

15:38

and I was seeking him like. It

15:40

wasn't like if you real show no,

15:43

it was like I want.

15:45

My heart was so open that I wanted to know

15:47

Jesus Christ, if you are real, show me who you are today.

15:49

Within four hours, I was weeping

15:52

for two hours straight in front of a Bank

15:54

of America, knowing that I will never serve

15:56

any other God. He showed me exactly

15:58

who he was and you were just standing in front

16:00

of a bank.

16:00

One hundred percent. It was an experience.

16:02

It was an encounter. Are you like in a trans

16:06

I mean no, no, no, no no.

16:09

I want to talk about it more in depth on my

16:11

platform because it's a it's a yeah,

16:15

But I want to say.

16:17

Having those experience and then fasting and praying

16:20

and getting answers and getting I haven't

16:22

tried the Koran, I haven't tried

16:25

Buddha, I haven't tried rose

16:27

courts. But I know with trying

16:29

Jesus, that is what I've seen the results

16:31

from. So I can't judge any other

16:34

experience but my own.

16:35

Yeah, you know, coming to you on this because

16:38

I'm curious you haven't tried those things, and I wonder would

16:40

you have a similar experience with the Koran? Would you

16:42

have a similar experience with you know, if you focus

16:44

just on the Old Testament, you know, and it's just experience

16:47

and where it comes from and the I

16:49

think I look up facts too. I'm trying to

16:51

learn. I'm mere to the fast. I don't know

16:54

like Christianity, and I'm still learning

16:56

that. But I think it's also a face

16:58

component. I don't they say when

17:00

you breathe, you're breathing in oxygen. I've never

17:02

looked that up. I just believe that every time

17:05

I take a breath, I am going to inhale and

17:07

still be here.

17:08

Well there, So that comes to you.

17:09

It's because a lot of people say I can't

17:12

see the air, but I'm still breathing

17:14

and I can't see the Lord it don't stop me from

17:17

believing, you know. Yeah,

17:19

but so much of what she's saying and so much of what

17:21

people in my life who are rooted in faith, it

17:24

grounds their existence in something,

17:26

It defines their life. And I think

17:28

that is why I believe in something. And

17:31

I just wonder, what is life like when

17:33

you believe in nothing? Yeah, that's

17:35

the things that I believe in. There's

17:38

definitely things I believe in.

17:39

Yeah.

17:40

I believe in integrity. I

17:42

believe in honesty. I believe

17:45

in doing good things for people.

17:48

M So I

17:50

believe in kindness. Yeah,

17:52

I believe in including humanity

17:55

in any way, shape or form. So, uh,

17:58

if your next question is going to be about morality,

18:01

which I know.

18:01

That not necessarily morality, but mortality,

18:05

you know, Okay, It's like when you are in

18:07

the autumn or winter of your years and you're facing

18:09

the end of your time, do you have an idea

18:12

or concept about what happens next?

18:14

Sure?

18:14

And if something is your health starts

18:16

to feel like are you just okay, I accept

18:19

this or are you praying to something?

18:21

Are you, you know, hoping for something?

18:24

So what I'm what I'm doing in the

18:27

twilight of my years is going to be

18:30

cementing and fomenting

18:32

and fostering all of the relationship with

18:34

the people that are right here on this planet

18:36

right now.

18:38

And what do you think happens? And the

18:41

worms you're going to eat me. I'm

18:43

going to go back to the earth.

18:45

So you think the body

18:47

so because like your my your

18:49

thoughts, you know, like that's not your

18:51

body.

18:52

The brain will decay in the skull as

18:54

you as your body decays, and you'll

18:56

just cease to exist, will cease to

18:58

exist in this form. So there are like

19:01

I say, we are made out of nitrogen.

19:04

This that's the stuff of stars, right,

19:07

So all of the things

19:09

that create

19:12

that that I that made

19:14

me in this form of life, I

19:18

will just change and be back

19:21

to the particles

19:23

about you know. And

19:25

I think that's a that's a that's fair.

19:28

I don't need to.

19:30

You know, go up to

19:33

to another realm

19:37

because I know we're quickly

19:40

destroying the planet. But while this planet

19:43

still is a beautiful place, I

19:46

say, let's enjoy it.

19:49

Let's we're at we're at you know,

19:51

we're all on this planet at the same time.

19:53

It's a beautiful place. Don't

19:57

don't fuck it up for other people at the party. Yeah,

19:59

I mean, I'm so intrigued,

20:03

just you know, just having these conversations.

20:05

Be nice and let everybody enjoy the party. Don't

20:07

don't go over there and tell Okay, well you look like that,

20:09

so you can't go to there and have this drink

20:11

at this party. We're all in this together.

20:14

I agree what happens when we

20:16

die.

20:17

I believe if you have made a conscious decision

20:19

to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you

20:21

will spend eternity with him.

20:23

And if not, you spend eternity

20:26

away from him.

20:26

And what if that mean away from him? Where I

20:31

believe in hell? But I don't believe.

20:33

I don't. I don't know if I believe hell? Is this fire

20:36

right? I believe.

20:38

Your deepest darkest day on Earth

20:41

times a million, without the

20:44

existence of God, the furthest away,

20:46

you could be from God and you would feel

20:48

that for eternity. Because you are, you

20:50

get the beautiful thing that God allows

20:52

is free will. So we have a

20:55

choice. I either want to spend eternity with

20:57

you or I don't. We can choose the Jewish people,

21:00

people without Hindus, Buddhists,

21:03

or people who don't believe in anything. People who've

21:05

never heard of Jesus. People in the deep

21:07

parts of the globe that you

21:09

know, right, Indigenous, right, Yeah,

21:12

the indigenous folks, Yeah, across

21:14

the globe, not just indigenous here in America.

21:16

Those folks will burn in Hell. I believe that. Not

21:18

you said, you don't know. It's a fiery place, but they will.

21:20

They will be in Hell at death, the people that

21:22

have not had the option to and that that's biblical.

21:25

I don't know what verse.

21:25

Don't quote me on this, but they will have a chance

21:27

to accept him when he comes back.

21:30

So it's like the entry point

21:32

of check here. If you accept Jesus.

21:34

If not, you go to a different line

21:36

and your return to your most awful day.

21:38

Yeah, and you'll relive that day essentially

21:41

for eternity.

21:42

Interesting, it's just like a mother and a child.

21:45

It's like, Okay, you can stay on the streets and live

21:47

the life that you think you want, or you could come into this home

21:49

where you have food, shelter. I want to stay

21:51

on the streets, don't do my I love you, that's

21:53

fine, But I'm curious because like somebody

21:56

like me, like I believe in something, Yeah, I

21:58

believe in give in God. I

22:00

do have questions about like, did God

22:03

somehow impregnate this

22:05

virgin a teenage see

22:07

a merry teenager who then

22:10

birthday child, and this

22:12

somehow creates this holy training of

22:14

the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost in practicality,

22:17

I have questions about that. And then when you

22:19

look at evolution, the science

22:22

of planet Earth's indisputable,

22:25

So how does that so exist with creationism?

22:28

Like dinosaur is definitely Roman Earth? So

22:30

are we saying that, you

22:32

know, like they existed with Adam

22:35

and Eve as you know, he's just riding

22:37

a dinosaur, right, But

22:39

even like about people just

22:42

have the well because it

22:45

they are carnivores, you know, like scientifically

22:47

we know people did not ride Dinosa,

22:50

you know. So I just this

22:52

is the challenge I have, was like in my mind.

22:54

So it's like I believe in God and then

22:56

after that I think things get

22:59

and I know, honestly, I know you mean,

23:01

because I feel shame for thinking this, and

23:03

I feel like there's gonna be so many believers who hear

23:05

me say this, like shame on you.

23:06

But the true human

23:09

mind the question.

23:11

Because well, that's one of the issues that

23:13

I have with religion in general.

23:15

And I can more speak to the Christian faith

23:18

because that's what I was raised in and now I'm

23:20

looking at it from a from

23:22

not from somebody in.

23:23

It, but but from the

23:25

macro. Do you feel a lot of pain

23:27

from people in that faith? I

23:30

don't have any pain.

23:33

From my time as

23:35

a believer really, like I

23:38

say, it was something just my

23:40

my family practice. And you

23:42

know as as

23:44

a believer, you know, as a young girl when

23:46

I you know, came accepted

23:49

the faith and you

23:52

just you know, it's all

23:54

about compliance when you're when you're what

23:57

about purpose?

23:58

Well, let's talk about purpose? Like what do we sense

24:00

of purpose?

24:01

Yeah?

24:01

Or I just I believe

24:04

everything that was created has a creator, right,

24:06

if there's a beginning there, everything

24:09

that we look at has

24:12

a purpose. Everything, whether

24:14

it's your eyebrow or your eyelashes to protect your

24:16

eyeballs, your eyeballs to see your well

24:18

I have on fake lass.

24:19

And that those had a purpose.

24:22

It's weight

24:24

to lashes, right, So what what do y'all believe

24:27

when it comes to purpose? And and

24:30

I think for me, I've

24:33

considered this. Our

24:35

sense of purpose to me is love. I

24:38

think that anchors

24:40

almost everything we do. Love

24:42

of self, but also love of others.

24:45

I have a friend who recently

24:47

found out his wife has a brain tumor,

24:50

and he was telling me all the things

24:52

that I cared about, I don't give a shit about anymore,

24:55

you know, like I just the

24:57

love is only that matters. And he said to me, find someone

24:59

who loves you, because like that's the important

25:01

thing.

25:02

And it really did. And I'm like, yeah, if my world.

25:04

Was shaken tomorrow, if I found out I had

25:07

you know, an amount of time and it's earth tomorrow, love

25:09

is the thing that I would think about, like, let me love

25:11

everyone around me and let me be receptive

25:14

to love around me. So that really is

25:17

my sense of purpose in terms

25:19

of spirituality. My sense of purpose

25:22

on this here earthly dwelling is

25:25

the equality and liberation of

25:27

black people and all people, which is go

25:29

back to live exactly exactly

25:32

right. You gave me a whole word.

25:37

Yeah, love is my purpose. But

25:40

this is the part where I feel a little shame because when

25:43

we tell this story of Jesus and the Virgin

25:45

Mary and she's pregnant, and Joseph was like, what, okay,

25:47

God did it is fine? It's like, what is the

25:49

difference between that story and

25:52

don't throw Holy water on me. But

25:54

that story and like Jack and the beans thock,

25:57

you know, it's like this is like I

25:59

think the difference is evidence. Where's

26:01

the evidence though? Of the VERGENTI

26:04

on hundred.

26:04

There's people that were there, there's there's

26:07

just like we have history books, we have

26:09

history with but there were books that were out

26:11

of the Bible. You know, I agree,

26:13

I agree, I.

26:14

Agree something because it says that you've

26:16

got the history. What

26:19

what history? Are you talking about the Bible

26:21

being a historical.

26:23

No, I'm not just talking about the Bible. And I'm

26:25

okay. Let me make this clear. I have never read

26:27

the whole Bible, and I'm still studying Christianity.

26:30

I'm still learning about the ethiopen

26:32

Bible. I will tell you

26:34

from from my circle. Mm

26:37

hmm. What happens once people

26:39

read the Bible all the way through a lot of times,

26:42

is it brings them more to a sense

26:45

of questioning more and

26:47

more to the point where they might

26:49

become nazeist. Like me, that that has

26:52

happened, I encourage you to

26:54

continue to read the Bible.

26:55

Yeah.

26:56

I haven't read it all the way through either, but

26:58

I just want to let you know, like I

27:00

understand that faith is

27:03

a big comfort for a lot

27:05

of us, and we needed it. But I

27:07

was saying the evidence what you said,

27:10

Yeah, so the historical evidence.

27:12

Okay, but even

27:14

the movie have y'all what's the movie.

27:17

In the case of Christ, right, I haven't seen

27:20

that where they it's just document

27:23

documentation of historical evidence

27:26

of five hundred witnesses seeing

27:29

the resurrection, resurrection excuse me of Jesus

27:31

or these people that are documenting

27:35

the history, historical

27:39

times that happened, just like any other history

27:41

book we read. Why do we believe history books that are in

27:43

school because it's documented history. So

27:46

I think I think that is important to study

27:48

and look into. Also, yes, you got something and

27:52

a lot of those history books are false school

27:55

books.

27:58

What's written by white men. This is

28:00

the part I

28:03

don't know. So back to your

28:05

point.

28:05

About witnesses

28:08

of the resurrection, did you say witnesses

28:11

to the crucifixion? No, okay,

28:13

I'm not going to put work I don't know, but witness

28:15

I don't know there were.

28:16

Yeah, are

28:18

those.

28:19

Witnesses in Are

28:21

you talking about stories from the Bible

28:23

that we're I'm talking about historians,

28:26

people that are documenting these

28:29

these historians that have studied. All

28:31

right, all right, but you're studying I'm studying.

28:34

Most of my faith, once again, comes

28:36

from I can only use

28:38

the example of I haven't studied science

28:40

to know how humans breathe, but I have faith

28:43

that every time I inhale, I'm gonna take

28:45

another breath mine because of experience,

28:48

constant experience.

28:51

More from experience than studying

28:53

the history.

28:53

Okay, you know, I just study

28:56

what you're doing is and it's something we're

28:59

kind of So you

29:01

might have asked me what I believe. And I believe in gravity

29:03

because it is repeatable, right

29:06

right, right right, I'm gonna drop something

29:08

and it's gonna go to the ground. Yeah, So it's

29:10

the repetitive or the

29:12

consistent, repeatable

29:15

experiments, things that happen

29:17

all the time. They're gonna happen, right, So that's

29:20

where I put my belief

29:22

in. I

29:24

just haven't seen the consistency with

29:27

the behaviors of a supernatural Is.

29:30

There something maybe

29:33

disingenuous or dangerous with expecting

29:36

religion to work like science? Because

29:39

I have this issue with you

29:41

know, I've seen the consistency though, but I'm

29:43

not. There are inconsistencies, I think, but I hear

29:45

that you, seniors. But I feel

29:48

like we apply logic to love,

29:50

and sometimes love is not logical, and

29:52

so maybe there is some sort of you

29:54

know, something that's not logical about our

29:57

faith. I mean, it's something illogical

29:59

about I,

30:02

you know, have faith or

30:04

I'm gonna step out on faith. I have faith

30:06

that I have this desire and that God

30:09

will bring it to differish there is something illogical,

30:12

But I have certainly said that, And I wonder

30:14

sometimes if our belief says some of us questioning

30:17

God comes from us questioning

30:20

the church or are we questioning God?

30:23

No, I think it's safe to question God.

30:25

I think it's okay. But that's when you're

30:27

in you when you say question God, are you saying

30:29

question the existence? Or Hey God,

30:32

what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Both?

30:35

Both? I've done that. Yeah, I want

30:37

to in reasance and why?

30:39

And almost every time because of perception,

30:41

I've gotten clarity every time I've asked him,

30:44

you know what I mean? So I think God has

30:46

been consistent, just like gravity in my life,

30:48

not always when I wanted him to, but

30:51

over history, every time

30:53

I had a pain point, every time I

30:55

had a tribulation, every time I had a death, every time

30:57

I had a loss, every time I had something

30:59

going on, it has worked

31:01

out. It has over history,

31:04

it has been just like gravity proof,

31:07

right every single time.

31:09

And my perception has a lot to do with that also.

31:11

I mean a part of it, I think though, is like the idea

31:14

of like the megachurch, you know, and

31:16

tithes and yeah,

31:18

yeah right, that's

31:20

what I'm saying. I mean, they have to draw the

31:23

distinction between faith

31:25

in God and men that when the practice.

31:28

So yes, I'm hearing. I'm

31:30

hearing this beautiful young woman talk about

31:33

a structure that helps her get

31:35

through her life on a personal level, and

31:38

that is what she's doing. And

31:41

I have no qualms about that. What I'm what

31:43

I'm more concerned about.

31:45

Is religion, how

31:49

it can be detrimental. Uh,

31:52

for instance, like these

31:55

like the megachurches, black

31:58

women are giving their money away.

32:01

Till well, how do

32:03

you.

32:03

Feel about economically we're not doing

32:06

well? We don't God doesn't.

32:08

If God is all powerful, you don't need.

32:10

My fight out. Yeah, well,

32:15

I do believe

32:17

tithing. I believe my dad's a pastor.

32:19

I was gonna say, is regular

32:25

man that actually needs another source thing? I

32:29

do believe. I do believe

32:31

people take advantage of the church. I do believe that.

32:33

I do believe people take

32:35

the tithes and you're you should be. The

32:37

purpose of the tithes is too for

32:40

the church. It's not for the pastor to go get a jack,

32:42

you know what I mean. So I do believe there are men that

32:45

are in religious power that are taking They

32:48

want advantage, they want

32:50

control, they want power, they want

32:52

everything, but to bring people

32:55

to God. And I believe that is a huge

32:57

issue in religion. I was out of the church for seven

33:00

years. I just went back to church last

33:02

year because I found a church.

33:04

So you you go to church,

33:06

I do, I do? And you what

33:08

do you get out of going to church

33:11

Physically? I love

33:13

my pastor.

33:14

I don't want no relationship with him outside of the church.

33:16

I don't need to know what you and your wife do on your free time.

33:19

I don't want to know your kids. I don't want to hang out. I don't

33:21

want to go to dinner. Why because you're human.

33:23

I just know that the way you articulate the word

33:26

makes me yearn to have a real relations

33:28

spirit I feel sad spiritually, and I go

33:30

home and I work it during the week I'm not expecting

33:33

that pastor to save me and the church to be

33:35

these are human Let me get my word and

33:38

go on home. Yeah, you know, And I think

33:40

that's a mature mindset that I didn't

33:42

have when I was younger. It's like, you expect

33:44

everybody is perfect and everybody. Now

33:47

I cannot put my faith in these humans, you

33:50

know. You know. Another interesting point too to

33:52

this, I think so often when religion,

33:55

particularly like televangelists, you know, or

33:57

just the evangelical movement that's

34:00

happening in the country, the

34:03

white is silent, you know, when people talk

34:05

about like the people

34:07

when you say on a news broadcast, might

34:09

be said, well, the evangelical vote is doing

34:12

this, and it's like, no, that's the white

34:14

evangelical you know. Like black

34:17

evangelicalism looks completely different.

34:19

It's more of the liberation

34:21

gospel mixed right. It's

34:24

something very different. And a lot of times white

34:26

evangelicals do not even go to church, like

34:28

it's become a political arm of

34:30

politics with with black folks. It is a

34:33

spiritual arm, an extension

34:35

of our existence, you know. But

34:38

I I have a question for you, Edith,

34:40

what is there anything well,

34:43

what could make you believe.

34:47

What would make me believe? I

34:50

can't think of anything. I mean, my

34:52

tuj're tied. I'm past menopauseic. So

34:55

if you got pregnant coming

34:58

so to stay?

34:59

Yeah, okay, Well what do you teach

35:01

your children about? So

35:04

I came away from religion. I

35:07

had already had kids. So when

35:09

I was a young mother, I was still

35:12

in belief of God.

35:16

And as my children grew

35:18

up, we maybe went to church

35:21

once. My husband at the time

35:23

came from a Muslim society,

35:26

but he wasn't practicing either. But

35:30

you know, I taught them. You

35:32

know, they would go to church school sometimes

35:34

or vacation Bible school, but

35:37

we would pray in the.

35:38

Evenings and most of my I thought it was interesting.

35:40

Most of my prayers that I was teaching my

35:42

children were to be

35:44

thankful to their grandmother, their grandfather,

35:47

the ancestors. It was more the focus

35:50

of what I what those prayers were. But as

35:52

I evolved, you know, I told my children,

35:55

you know, if you want to, you

35:57

can. You can go to church if you want to. You can

36:00

practice Islam if you want to. What do they

36:02

believe? Now? They are non

36:04

believers like myself for

36:07

the most part, Yeah, would you ever, there's

36:10

just a question.

36:11

Yeah, would you ever just sit

36:14

and like seek him and

36:16

just say, have one of those moments like I

36:18

had, like if you are real, show me who you are

36:21

and not condescending, not

36:23

like I'm atheist anyway, but like truly

36:28

but like so truly at your wits end

36:31

opening, because I feel like that's what got me to him

36:33

when I was at my wit and I'm

36:35

like, okay, likes

36:38

people are like.

36:39

It's like a traumatic event. So there are trials

36:41

in people's lives. It's always going to be the case.

36:44

You know, you're you're, you're, you know, life

36:47

life is just go life on you. Yeah, and

36:49

you just but would you ever see me for

36:52

me? When I was uh

36:55

believing, Yes, there were times

36:57

when I would call on God and just try

37:00

to.

37:02

You know, reason with him

37:04

or you know whatever. I feel

37:06

like you have thought him, Oh sure, when

37:09

I was in the faith, when I.

37:10

Was again,

37:12

I'm not saying seeking

37:14

him for something or count seeking

37:17

him to show you who he is, show you

37:19

his presence, like show me who

37:21

you are. Not really

37:25

I just yeah, yeah.

37:27

So when I first when

37:29

I was a child, would go

37:31

to church with the big folks, bigfoe

37:34

church. At this particular church we went to, there wasn't

37:36

junior church. So when I was seven,

37:38

and the preacher started preaching, and the emotions

37:41

started running high, and he was getting

37:43

good at it, and the songs came on, and

37:46

you know, at one point I became

37:49

very emotional and I thought I saw Jesus

37:52

in the in the building. But what's

37:54

interesting when I look back at that now, he

37:57

looked like Kurt Kobay, who's.

37:59

That was a white

38:03

the main singer of Nirvana, who was a rock

38:09

hair and blue eyes. You know,

38:11

I was like, looking

38:13

back on it, mmhm.

38:16

That made me what that made me question a lot

38:18

about Okay, well that but see that

38:20

is a big part of it too, like how Christianity

38:23

came to us, right

38:26

but before slavery,

38:29

Christianity was how it came to massive

38:31

amounts of black folks right

38:34

right right through white people, not just in America,

38:36

but white people, but white people brought

38:38

Christianity to Africa with promises

38:41

of wealth and gold and freedom and

38:43

liberty, but it was all wrapped

38:45

in white supremacy, I mean. And

38:48

how it got in America is literally

38:50

they would be in the Gold Coast

38:52

of Ghana. There is a church where

38:54

the white men would go and literally

38:57

right under that church they have to dying,

38:59

and the slave dungeons, but not

39:01

just the dungeons whatever, keeping people of transport

39:04

where they sentenced people who were rebellious,

39:07

who fought for their freedom, and they kept them

39:09

right beneath the churches and in complete

39:11

darkness because they thought if

39:14

these rebellious negroes died, we

39:16

would inherit their souls, their spirits

39:19

while they're whipping our backs and putting us

39:21

on slave ships saying obey Thy Master.

39:23

So there is something to that when

39:25

I think about that, like, oh, this is how so

39:28

many black folks can. But then the

39:30

church became a tool, you know, it

39:32

became such a such preto in the community

39:34

with Jim Crow and how we organize.

39:36

So I did wonder separating God

39:39

from church, separating man

39:42

from God. You know, yeah, I think

39:44

that's yeah, because all those

39:46

things all I hear is man with power, man with

39:48

power, power, power, power, money, control,

39:51

patrol, patrol.

39:52

They ain't got nothing to do with God. I

39:54

didn't say do that. Yeah, we have free

39:56

will. They all chose to do that and chose to

39:58

drop drop in their own little rules

40:01

and little things and control and do

40:03

all those things. God didn't say do that. Have you ever got the Holy

40:05

goos? Oh? Yeah, absolutely.

40:08

I tried to get the Holy when

40:11

I was little.

40:12

I pray

40:14

for the Holy Thank you Jesus. I never got

40:16

the Holy go How do I get

40:18

the Holy Goes? I feel his presence, I

40:21

feel but I mean with him.

40:22

But but you see, you're making it a game. How

40:25

do I meet? I promise I

40:27

used to be you

40:30

get to the inspiration.

40:34

I want to know my whole

40:36

life. I tried, and guess what, most of the time I get

40:38

it. I'm in my room by myself. I'm not there's

40:41

not an organ, there's not a muse. You ain't showing

40:43

out. What what does

40:45

it feel like? It feels like I

40:48

sit with God. It's relationship. See,

40:50

we got to get religion out of our mind. That's

40:52

fair. What do we do with relationship? I'm talking to

40:54

you, I'm spending time with you. I'm trying to understand you. My

40:57

heart is open to you. I'm listening to you. There's

40:59

no judgment here. We can just sit and talk.

41:02

Sometimes in a relationship, you talk in a

41:04

conversation, you might not have none to say, you might not say

41:06

nothing back instantly, you might call

41:08

me later. Three weeks later, I thought about

41:10

that.

41:10

Let me talk to you now. We want God

41:13

to move on our time, and our time is in God's

41:15

time.

41:16

Sometimes I sit with him for hours and I don't hear

41:18

anything, and I don't cry and I don't

41:20

weep. Then other days, when I sit

41:22

with him and talk to him, I get my downloads,

41:24

I get my answers, and I believe the Holy Spirit

41:26

is inside of me and he can talk to me in those moments.

41:29

But you didn't feel that growing up

41:31

in the church. You didn't feel that until you.

41:34

I didn't feel I

41:37

felt like I believe in God, but I didn't

41:39

feel focused on relationship

41:41

until recently. I always had religion.

41:44

Pray before you eat, pray when you go to sleep, Thank you

41:46

God for this day. God watch over with my family.

41:48

God.

41:48

I didn't understand. I'm trying to understand

41:50

the mind God now and it will

41:52

never understand that. We can't fathom it. But

41:55

relationship is totally different than

41:57

religion. So I want people to get religion

42:00

out.

42:00

Of their mind. Jeremiah twenty nine thirteen

42:02

is in my bio. I challenge everybody

42:04

to read that because That's what changed my life.

42:07

Seek me and you will find me when

42:10

you seek me with all of your heart,

42:13

not because I want to play a game with God, not

42:15

because.

42:16

I say I don't. I don't know all this

42:18

and that. And if you real show me who you know, when

42:21

you're at your wits end and you seek him with all

42:23

of your heart.

42:23

He'll show you exactly who he is. And

42:26

I go back to that day February

42:28

twenty twenty two. When when

42:30

when I when I lose faith or I okay,

42:32

maybe this go back to that day. He already

42:35

showed you.

42:36

Now we need to sometimes we don't need a new revelation.

42:38

We just got to remember. So I go back

42:40

to that day and I remember you showed me who

42:42

you are as soon as I ask you. I'm walking

42:44

with you for the rest of my life.

42:47

I you know, I'm a little envious

42:49

of your faith. To be honest with you, I was too,

42:53

That's why you said, that's what I want other

42:55

people. But you're certainty, because

42:59

I'm not.

43:01

I don't believe. It's not certain, okay,

43:04

So certainty and being

43:06

so assured, what

43:09

is it that.

43:11

You may be leaving

43:14

off the table if you are setting

43:18

things here setting things there boom.

43:21

I guess my point is I'm

43:24

not afraid of the uncertainty because

43:26

that door of uncertainty, I'm gonna

43:29

walk through it. I'm gonna walk through

43:31

it and see what's there. Facing

43:34

fears. Uh, you

43:36

know that's something that uh,

43:40

you know, by facing fears, you

43:44

strengthen yourself and you you

43:46

strengthen your walk through life when

43:48

you realize, okay, these fears I may

43:51

have had, fear

43:53

of hell, fear of retribution,

43:56

fear of ostras.

44:00

You know what I'm trying to say, I dostracization.

44:08

Yeah.

44:09

You know, the more times you go

44:11

through a door that's fearful

44:14

and you don't know, and maybe you don't have somebody

44:16

to walk with, you do it.

44:18

Every time you do that, you get stronger. And

44:20

so.

44:22

The faith journey that you go on, I go

44:24

on a journey. I won't say faith because

44:27

faith means believing without evidence. That's

44:30

not something I do, Okay, But.

44:33

Again, where it brings comfort to people

44:35

on a personal level, I got no problem with it. Yeah,

44:38

Well, why do you think.

44:39

So many because you are somewhat of

44:41

an anomaly when we look at the data.

44:44

Why the definition of anomaly? Like

44:46

you are you are.

44:49

To know what that you're

44:52

the exception and not the rule. You're

44:54

an outlier to your point, And so

44:57

we talked about the data. How many young people are lea

45:00

church? Yeah, so why do

45:02

you think that is? Why are they in drove saying

45:04

no, this isn't for me and this is church

45:06

to your point.

45:07

Not religion.

45:08

We don't know if they left religion, but we didn't know not.

45:10

I think because the church is an absolute mess. I

45:13

think it's a mess.

45:14

And I think we continuously, like you said before,

45:17

put our faith in man to bring us

45:19

to God. All these prophets and people.

45:21

I do believe people have spiritual gifts. I do believe

45:23

somebody can prophetically speak a word

45:25

unto you and it comes to fruition. I believe that. Do

45:27

you love that? I

45:30

believe I can tap into it. Yes, I believe

45:32

you could do well.

45:33

I don't know that I've never I don't

45:36

believe anyway I have spoken, but I do say

45:38

I believe that I use

45:43

I did have somebody, a

45:45

dear friend of mine. I

45:48

won't say her name because I think she'll be upset, but

45:51

she poured into me one

45:54

night and told me things that

45:56

was going to happen in my life. Her cousin

45:59

prayed over me, and then she told

46:01

me there is a dark spirit around

46:04

you and it aims to devour you.

46:06

I believe that, and I knew what she when

46:08

she said it. I was like I received that. She

46:11

told me someone is going to come into your life and

46:13

teach you about love. Like all these

46:15

things that had not happened, she spoke

46:18

them. Is she in the Bible Thumper Bible

46:20

volder like she? But she embodies

46:22

love like that is her. I would say love is

46:24

her religion. But I remember

46:26

I wept that night like her,

46:28

and they were at my house till like four in the morning, and

46:31

she just spoke over me. And I do remember feeling

46:33

a presence. I remember feeling something.

46:36

But my disconnect comes with like

46:39

the the fables of the

46:41

Bible. You know that. I'm like, I

46:43

don't know if that's true. But is there a space for someone

46:46

like me to believe in God?

46:48

I believe in something. I don't know

46:50

that I can adopt

46:53

what is laid out in the Bible as facts.

46:55

Have you read the whole Bible? Never? No, I've

46:58

never read the whole Bible, But I me I

47:00

grew up in the church.

47:01

I read a lot of the there's

47:03

a lot of if you grew up with the church, there's there's

47:06

question you know, there are stories that everybody

47:08

knows, you know, I.

47:10

Mean even Noah in the art jokes

47:13

like why God do joke like that. There's questions.

47:16

If you were atheists, there would be questioned, right,

47:18

there's always I mean, I'm a journalist, so I

47:20

have always sure you

47:22

need to watch the Case of Christ if you're a journalist

47:25

is about a journalist who was atheists.

47:27

Interesting and his wife converted.

47:29

He was like, we will get a divorce. This

47:32

is some bullshit. Wow, Like you're

47:34

we've been atheists and this is some This

47:37

is whoever you worship? Who is

47:39

so good? Who you said?

47:41

Who wrote it? I don't know. Google we'll

47:43

find this makes up a key story. And this

47:45

this atheist is now Christian. Ever the

47:48

case of Case of Christ, he's a

47:50

he was a journalist.

47:51

Yeah, he spent time.

47:53

And I just said that because you said he

47:56

converted to Christianity because of he

47:58

was. I want, what are you not

48:01

doing that you were doing before

48:03

you like recommitted your life to Christ,

48:06

like from sex to drinking

48:08

and stuff. Whatever you want

48:10

to share. Let me tell you, I'll share everything.

48:12

Okay. I don't believe, and I

48:14

believe.

48:14

That's another reason why young people are moving away

48:16

from a church, all these rules and regulations,

48:19

which goes back to religion.

48:21

Yes, religion, I do believe has its place, but we keep

48:23

putting our faith in man.

48:25

I am not. I have a relationship, as

48:27

in a relationship is when you tell

48:29

me you know what in this season.

48:31

This is my boundary. I'm not really cool with

48:33

you. You're usually always late. I don't care right

48:35

now. I don't want to handle that.

48:36

You need to be on time. That's a boundary. We have a

48:38

conversation. As God convicts

48:41

me, then I will move because why it's

48:43

a heart postureship. Yeah, so I'm

48:45

not. I didn't give my life the crisis there. I can't smoke

48:47

weed no more.

48:48

I got to I stopped smoking,

48:50

and I'm sober and I'm actually celibate,

48:52

but only because I ain't got no man.

48:54

But if you have a man, if you had a man,

48:56

you would be sexually active. I would.

48:57

But you did give up alcohol and weed

49:00

and I had that wasn't because I gave my life

49:02

to outside of marriage. I would so it wasn't

49:04

you didn't give about hall and weed. For christ,

49:07

I gave it up because I was convicted.

49:09

Because I was, I gave I got that tied yesterday.

49:11

I can't say you were moved to see

49:14

and I just let it go. These things are not Yeah,

49:16

I no longer want to do it, and you know what I

49:18

mean. But I do believe well,

49:21

no, she was convicted.

49:25

Being convicted. Yeah, if you're convicted, if

49:27

you want to live a good life, I was right,

49:30

right, there's reasons. God has boundaries for a

49:32

reason.

49:33

Right.

49:33

It's like, don't smoke weed. Why can't

49:35

I smoke weed? You know why? Since

49:38

that's altering your mindset and your body

49:40

and you are driving a car Like

49:43

I don't smoke and drive a car.

49:46

You're and

49:48

you were overeating I know.

49:55

But yeah, all right, we got to take a quick

49:57

break, pay some bills. But on the other

49:59

side, I have questions about cults,

50:01

so stay to this

50:07

whole conversation is very about it. I'm like,

50:09

what you're convicted in is making me you

50:11

know. I'm like, wow, have I ever been that convicted?

50:15

Okay, I received, I'm receptive, but

50:18

I want to ask you, edith as

50:20

in what we just heard from be Simone telling

50:22

us like I was convicted to not do these things.

50:25

I don't even know how that looks or works in atheism,

50:28

But are there, like, I guess, what are

50:30

your moral boundaries? Because are just things

50:32

that you're like as an atheist, I will not do

50:34

these things or however it works,

50:36

I don't know.

50:37

So without

50:40

a uh, without an outside

50:43

or a god

50:45

or a superpower, natural power

50:48

or a supernatural power, and

50:50

a text that tells me you

50:53

can't do this on Sunday or you can't eat

50:55

shrimp on such and such a day, the

50:58

way that I my bad are

51:00

set by what is what

51:03

harms others. If

51:05

it's harmful to myself or others,

51:08

I don't do it.

51:09

Oh that's okay.

51:10

You know I'm not raping, I'm not murdering.

51:12

I'm not stealing. I'm

51:15

paying my taxes, which is kind of you know

51:17

that reparation. I

51:20

am doing that, So we have

51:22

all the major things. If it's if

51:24

it's not harming someone, then

51:28

you know, I feel okay about it. So,

51:32

like I was saying, my as I

51:34

get older, the list of things I ain't

51:36

gonna do again chilled. I

51:40

ain't got much time now see.

51:44

A lot of time. So yeah,

51:46

so what I've seen

51:50

happen and maybe this isn't.

51:52

This isn't.

51:53

I think Simone is has a

51:55

beautiful outlook here. But a

51:59

lot of times what I see

52:01

with black women in particular who are in

52:03

the church, who are in the phase, they

52:06

won't do anything outside

52:09

of a certain structure there.

52:11

Oh you're going to go

52:13

hot to your ballooning, I can get up there.

52:17

There is something about that because it's like, when I'm

52:19

not Dad, I would just want to how to balloon and take you. But

52:22

the hot air bloon may be a bad example. But I

52:24

remember like when Beyonce dropped lemonade and everybody's

52:26

like, oh, it's demonic and you can't go see

52:29

it. Not like everybody, but there were these like zealous

52:31

type of people trying to decode

52:33

this demonic message or like

52:36

you can't listen to music or you can't swear or

52:38

different things. And it's like that seems okay,

52:41

insignificant, you know, it just doesn't

52:43

seem like a big deal. That shit

52:45

defined my love for Christ and

52:47

I but it's not you because

52:50

you're like very clear, which I appreciate.

52:52

There is religion and there is a relationship,

52:55

and those two things are I think are completely

52:58

separate. I think the other side of that,

53:00

there's a lot of people, like you said, you were at your

53:03

wits end, and I sometimes to me

53:05

like, there are people who it's almost

53:08

like you went so far in life and

53:10

that you did things that are so awful

53:13

that you had no place to go but church.

53:16

So it's a lot of former addicts,

53:18

and you know, in

53:20

my family in churchs like everywhere. But I

53:22

know, like, but sometimes the hardest like

53:25

drunk for Jesus people, it's like, oh yeah,

53:27

girl, I was a prostitute, you know,

53:30

took it in the veins, I was adreamwork.

53:32

I did all this and I found Jesus.

53:34

And it's like, well, this kind of seemed like your new drugs,

53:36

you know, like this doesn't necessarily seed. And

53:39

it's no judgment to them because it's like, hey, if it

53:41

makes you feel better and how you

53:43

manage life.

53:44

I do a lot of things.

53:45

It's helping me manage life right now. But I do wonder

53:48

something about that, like I'm I was, I hit a

53:50

rock bottom and that's when I

53:53

recommitted my life. I wonder if you would

53:55

have had that same condition I think you would. Well,

53:57

my rock bottom was not knowing that

54:00

was so it wasn't like you hit rock bottom in life.

54:02

No, my right was spiritually not

54:04

being a wrong guard. I'm like, why do I believe

54:06

what I believe? Yeah, truly had to open

54:10

up my heart and have a pure

54:12

conversation, you know, outside

54:14

of.

54:16

Like we said, I go with this glass you real

54:18

right? Right?

54:19

You know.

54:19

So it wasn't because you were saying like it was your

54:21

wits end. I didn't get that. It was

54:23

just and not knowing.

54:24

I thought there were circumstances in your life that you

54:26

were like. I was just having a hard time just

54:29

the confusion, Like I said, just I got

54:31

tired of wavering my face. Yeah,

54:34

seeing everybody around me be anchored,

54:36

and I envied the fact that I wasn't,

54:38

Like I'm like, yeah, I've been in church

54:40

for thirty years, okay, Like

54:43

you can be right, like yeah,

54:46

like, why am I not Muslim? Jesus

54:48

Jesus Christ?

54:49

Okay? Cool?

54:50

Like and I still have those

54:52

questions. That's why I would love to go to seminary

54:54

school. I would love to do more research on the historical

54:57

part of it. My faith is rooted

55:00

an encounter in my own life

55:02

experience. Okay, yeah, well I wonder I want

55:04

to ask our listeners and people watching, like, how many

55:06

of y'all out there are believers? You know?

55:09

And are you church believers?

55:10

Are?

55:10

Yeah? Like church and God believers?

55:13

Do you believe in not go to church? I'm really curious.

55:15

This is our little anecdotal hole. The

55:17

data shows that people are leaving the church, but I

55:19

find it to be an interesting conversation. We're going to take

55:22

a really quick break because I want to ask you guys something on

55:24

the other side about cults.

55:25

So don't go anywhere, put me right back.

55:28

Okay, y'all already know the streets are

55:30

talking, talking talking. Okay,

55:33

So you're talking.

55:34

About things that happened in the Bible,

55:38

and we have been, you know, sharing this position

55:40

of but is that fable?

55:41

A lot of cults in recent

55:44

history.

55:44

I think about I lived through who you lived

55:46

through Dave Koresh like I remember like

55:49

Dave kresh thought like, so

55:51

he was a cult leader in the early nineties.

55:53

I think it was so

55:55

that was sin.

55:56

Then I lived through the one in the seventies,

56:00

a man by the name of Jim Jones drinking

56:02

the kool aid that literally mostly

56:05

black people to the jungle of Guyana.

56:08

Yes, and they

56:10

all died from drinking kool aid. That's

56:12

where that phrase comes from. That's why I.

56:15

Or you like or he was drinking the kool aid because

56:18

people, Yeah, it

56:21

literally killed them, yeah beside them.

56:23

Yeah.

56:23

So there we've we've seen evidence of these

56:25

cults. And so you know, David

56:27

Koresh was and he was killed by law

56:30

enforcement, but they had this whole compound.

56:32

It was a big standoff. I mean, this was like major

56:34

news. I just wonder.

56:36

And then there's his wild Indian country

56:39

like the other It was a documentary on Netflix

56:41

about another cult, if you will.

56:44

But I hear you say these things and

56:46

you believe emphatically. You

56:49

know that Jesus walked the earth, Like, how

56:51

are we to know if somebody don't believe Jesus

56:53

walked the earth, you don't.

56:54

Believe he was real. I don't know

56:57

that.

56:57

I believe that God impregnated

57:00

a virgin, But you believe Jesus was a human. Here,

57:02

I believe there was a person named Jesus, got

57:04

it, Okay, Yeah, that's all.

57:05

He was the son of God. Yes, Okay, we just don't ask

57:09

that question.

57:09

Now, if somebody comes along, they pressure

57:12

telling people, no, I am Jesus, Yes exact,

57:14

I have returned, and he like,

57:16

who's to say?

57:18

But he was killing people? No,

57:20

he didn't kill didn't kill.

57:25

A person killing people, He did declare

57:28

himself as being Jesus. I'm

57:31

so, how do we like

57:34

somebody like you who's very convicted, how

57:36

do you know? Like yes, because the Bible

57:38

says Jesus will return. M why

57:41

is that not wasn't it him?

57:45

How do we know it wasn't him? Or how will we know when it is

57:47

him? I guess Yeah, like I said, if I if

57:49

I turn up pregnant that

57:52

it was tomorrow, you believe in Jesus. No,

57:54

not really. I mean if

57:56

you turned up pregnant, part you ought to believe in Jesus

57:59

because you so that. Yeah, like that

58:02

a miracle. But

58:04

what colts people believe?

58:06

And I think and sometimes in Christianity

58:08

people have killed in the name of Christianity Jesus, people

58:10

have died, people have harmed themselves, set themselves

58:13

ablaze in the name of Christianity. And God don't

58:15

say none of that. Well, they would say

58:17

he did. They would say God spoke for the same

58:19

way that you say. You have this comment, why

58:22

are they Why are they liars?

58:24

Like?

58:24

Why is their faith somehow the faith

58:26

that they had, Why told me to kill somebody?

58:29

Oh that happens all throughout the Bible,

58:31

that happens today. Yeah,

58:34

they're killing in the Bible directed

58:36

by God. So yes, that has happened. But people

58:38

present day says, yes, God told me to

58:41

kill or God across

58:43

to beat my back into that's we're

58:46

also like beat my back and my own dominion

58:48

to harm myself, you know, to honor Jesus,

58:51

we take a piece of bread

58:53

and say we are eating the body of Christ and

58:56

say we are drinking the blood and dress and

58:59

a cult. If somebody is saying that, then

59:01

how do we know, you know, if somebody

59:03

else, if you had never heard of Christianity and somebody

59:05

says we are here eating the flesh of

59:08

God's son and drinking the blood. It's

59:11

not a big difference between that and some people for

59:13

other people who sacrifice chickens and you

59:15

know, drink the blood. So I just wonder

59:18

how do you separate the

59:21

two things. Any cult I've seen has always

59:23

been about power, sex and control and money.

59:25

So that's an instant like keep sweet

59:27

and pray y'all see that on Netflix? No, what

59:30

is it called keep Sweeten? And

59:32

they are still to this day.

59:34

I have no offense to you if you are in

59:36

that cult or that whatever it is.

59:39

Yeah, sex power abuse.

59:42

Even the people in it that are out of it now

59:45

are like, it just was so Their

59:47

body told them before they even decided to leave,

59:50

like you have to listen to your

59:52

body. You're intuition, You're you're like,

59:54

they knew it was wrong, you know what I mean, And

59:56

they just were so in it, and

1:00:00

it was it was horrible. But any cults

1:00:02

I've ever seen have been like rooted

1:00:04

in those things.

1:00:06

Let me let me just say something

1:00:08

to you.

1:00:11

Everything you said about a cult

1:00:14

I find in the major

1:00:17

religions as well.

1:00:18

Power, sex control, And I agree

1:00:21

because I agree. I

1:00:24

believe man has made

1:00:27

it about man and not about God, and

1:00:29

I believe that is a huge issue in religion

1:00:31

and the church.

1:00:32

I agree with that. All right.

1:00:34

So you have God, and

1:00:37

in the Christian faith, God

1:00:41

had a son. If

1:00:45

if if the guy down the street was

1:00:48

to treat his son the

1:00:50

way that Jesus ended up mm

1:00:53

hmm, we would

1:00:55

have a.

1:00:55

Problem with that. Guy.

1:00:57

We would

1:01:00

I didn't harm narcissistic

1:01:02

control and abuse a

1:01:04

person. Let's say

1:01:06

it's the guy down the street. I want all my neighbors

1:01:09

to love me. I want everybody to you

1:01:11

know, I need my Cloud

1:01:14

puts his son out there for everybody to punch.

1:01:17

Mm hmm. We would not call that

1:01:19

a benevolent person. Yeah, but

1:01:22

that's all. I don't know, But I

1:01:25

well, I think that, and I'm

1:01:27

you know, I'm not.

1:01:29

A religous scholar, but I think that

1:01:32

is the free will maybe that you're referencing

1:01:34

of humankind. I

1:01:37

think that's why the Bible says, you know, Jesus said,

1:01:39

forgive them God, for they know not what they

1:01:41

do. And it wasn't necessarily

1:01:43

that God was like, smite my son, but

1:01:46

human beings. God is not forcing

1:01:48

anybody to do anything. He's the perfect gentleman,

1:01:50

you know.

1:01:51

Well, well, I'm not saying he was not. He

1:01:53

wasn't forcing them. That's not why he gives

1:01:55

us free. But he was.

1:01:57

But as you say he was,

1:02:01

I'll put it in another way, which may you

1:02:03

know, may be a little a bit. Jesus was

1:02:05

thrown on under the bus so that

1:02:07

God could get Cloud.

1:02:09

Well, God, I.

1:02:10

Believe God was Jesus right,

1:02:12

so you believe in the Holy Trinity, there is all one, your

1:02:15

Father and the Son and the Holy Right.

1:02:17

You know, we have questions about that Jesus.

1:02:19

Was one hundred percent man and one hundred percent Gods.

1:02:22

Yeah, which is hard for me to you

1:02:24

know, I understand intellectually what

1:02:26

you're saying. It is hard for me to intellectualize it

1:02:29

if that makes me and I'm not even trying to fathom

1:02:31

all that. My brain can't even go as far as our creator.

1:02:33

I'm not trying to understand that would

1:02:36

never understand until the day even, you

1:02:38

know, and so I never understand it. There's something

1:02:41

to that though, because you know, not the

1:02:43

grass Tyson talks about trying to communicate

1:02:45

with a primate, but the primate

1:02:48

and we we share a primate

1:02:50

is like a family, Oh

1:02:52

okay, okay, and we share as

1:02:55

like ninety eight percent of our DNA with

1:02:59

yes, yeah, and so, but try

1:03:01

to have a conversation with the findmate and

1:03:03

they, you know, yeah, yeah,

1:03:05

and so he's saying, if just two percent

1:03:08

makes that much difference in comprehension,

1:03:11

then imagine a supreme life

1:03:13

force that has that And so I do apply

1:03:15

that when I'm questioning, you know, God,

1:03:18

It's like if God is a different

1:03:21

life force, so you know his or

1:03:24

her. But God's you know, powers

1:03:27

are far superior than mine and

1:03:29

far superior than what my mind can comprehend.

1:03:32

So I put it that way.

1:03:33

But I will say I have more questions

1:03:35

and answers after talking to you, lovely

1:03:37

ladies, I still have.

1:03:41

That's the right.

1:03:42

I think that's that's the beauty of it. And we

1:03:44

were not here to convince anyone,

1:03:47

to shame anyone for what you believe or

1:03:49

don't believe, or to convert anyone

1:03:52

into believing something. But I think these conversations

1:03:54

are healthy. I love a healthy

1:03:57

exchange of ideas and ideology,

1:04:00

and I hope that somebody got something, and

1:04:02

I hope it encourages other people to have this conversation.

1:04:05

I could not.

1:04:05

I love my grandmother. She's part of the reason I started the show.

1:04:07

I could not have this conversation with her because

1:04:10

she would just, at the end of the day, just just believe,

1:04:13

you know, the Lord loves you. So

1:04:15

I love that we were able to share in this

1:04:17

space in love and

1:04:20

in sisterhood, and that's what these conversations

1:04:22

are all about I'm still on my journey.

1:04:24

I love your journey, and

1:04:26

I love your comfort and where you are, and I

1:04:28

think it's all beautiful.

1:04:30

And not God bless us all.

1:04:32

Yes, yes, thank

1:04:36

you guys so much for tuning into this episode

1:04:38

of Across Generations. Please drop

1:04:41

a review, let me know what you thought of the show. I want

1:04:43

to hear from you. I read all the comments.

1:04:45

I'm crazy like that. Yeah, so please let

1:04:47

me know what you thought of today's show

1:04:49

and let me know if you are a believer or not. I want

1:04:51

to hear from our viewers on this one. Until then, we'll

1:04:54

see you on the next episode of a Cross Generations.

1:04:56

Across Generations is brought to you by Will Packer

1:04:59

and We'll Packer Meet in partnership with iHeart

1:05:01

Podcast. I'm your host and executive

1:05:04

producer Tiffany d Cross from

1:05:06

Idea to Launch Productions Executive

1:05:08

producer Carla wilmeris produced

1:05:10

by Mandy Be and Angel Forte. Editing,

1:05:13

sound design and mix by Gaza Forte.

1:05:16

Original music by Epidemic Sounds.

1:05:18

Video editing by Kathon Alexander

1:05:21

and Courtney Deans.