0:01

I was diagnosed twice. The first time

0:03

was not enough for me. I needed to see

0:06

even bigger specialists,

0:09

just to be sure. That's why by

0:11

describing this, even mundane

0:14

things sometimes, it just brings

0:17

a bit of confidence for the

0:19

people right before the diagnosis or right

0:21

after because we are still having doubts

0:23

after.

0:29

Richard Branson, Michael Phelps,

0:33

Justin Timberlake, James

0:35

Carvel. Wait a minute.

0:38

Where are the women? Greta

0:42

Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra

0:45

McDonald,

0:46

Simone Biles. That

0:48

sounds like a list of highly successful

0:51

titans in a variety of industries.

0:54

They all have ADHD, but you

0:56

don't hear much about that now, do you? You

0:58

know what else you don't hear about? Are the 43% of

1:01

people with ADHD

1:03

who are in excellent mental health.

1:06

Why aren't we talking about them and what they're

1:08

doing right? I'm your host,

1:10

Tracy Otsuka, and that's exactly

1:13

what we do here. I'm a lawyer,

1:15

not a doctor, a lifelong student,

1:18

and now the author of my new book, ADHD for Smart-Ass

1:21

Women. I'm also a certified ADHD

1:24

coach and the creator of Your ADHD

1:27

Brain is A-OK, a patented

1:29

system that helps ADHD women just

1:32

like you get unstuck and fall

1:34

in love with their brilliant brains. Here,

1:37

we embrace our too muchness and we focus

1:40

on our strengths. My guests and I

1:42

credit our ADHD for some

1:44

of our greatest gifts. And

1:47

to those who still think they're too much,

1:49

too impulsive, too scattered, too

1:51

disorganized, I say

1:53

no one ever made a difference by

1:56

being too little.

2:02

Hello, I am your host, Tracey

2:04

Atsuka. Thank you so much for joining me

2:06

here for episode number 251 of ADHD

2:08

for Smartass Women. I

2:12

hope you'll subscribe to this podcast and

2:14

our newsletter over at traceyoutsuka.com.

2:18

You know my purpose is always to show you

2:20

who you are and then inspire

2:22

you to be it. And in the thousands of ADHD

2:24

women that I've had the privilege of meeting,

2:27

I've never met a one that wasn't truly

2:29

brilliant at something, not one. And

2:31

so of course, I am just delighted to

2:33

introduce you to our guests today. We

2:36

would say Alice Gendron. You

2:41

pronounce it. I've tried a couple of times and

2:43

I keep massacring it. It's

2:46

okay. Alice Gendron. It's

2:48

just so much prettier that way. Alice

2:50

Gendron. Alice Gendron. Was

2:54

that even close? It's perfect. You're

2:57

just being polite. Anyway,

2:59

let me give you a little bio before we start.

3:01

So Alice currently lives in Bordeaux,

3:04

France and she spent most of her childhood

3:06

doodling in class. After high school,

3:08

she tried a lot of different things and finally

3:11

settled on work as a freelance writer for

3:13

websites and marketing agencies. But

3:15

her struggles managing her workload were what

3:17

led to her diagnoses at the age of 29 and

3:21

her popular online platform, the

3:23

Mini ADHD Coach, which has over

3:25

a half a million Instagram followers,

3:28

as well as her brand new book of

3:30

the same name, the Mini ADHD

3:33

Coach. Alice's funny and relatable

3:35

illustrations are loved around the world.

3:37

Alice, welcome. And did I get all of that

3:40

right? Yes, it was perfect.

3:42

Thank you, Tracy. I'm so glad to be here with

3:44

you. Well, I'm so glad that you're here. So

3:47

we always start this podcast out, all

3:49

of our guests do, talking about

3:51

their ADHD diagnoses. So I'm

3:54

wondering if you can tell us, we have a

3:56

general idea what the circumstances were,

3:58

but can you talk a little bit about that? about the diagnosis?

4:01

Yeah, actually, it's one of

4:03

my favorite subjects to talk

4:05

about

4:06

moments right before and right after

4:08

the diagnosis. I think it's so

4:10

important to talk about this.

4:13

So I was diagnosed, I was 29 when

4:15

I got my diagnosis. And

4:19

what led me to it was actually

4:22

years of wondering what was

4:24

wrong with me. Like most

4:26

of ADHD women who

4:28

are diagnosed later in life, just

4:32

yeah, I couldn't figure out why

4:35

I struggled so much with simple

4:37

stuff and why

4:40

life,

4:41

you know, everything, especially, I

4:43

felt so incredibly

4:45

difficult and challenging and

4:48

why I kept, you know, seeing

4:51

my taxes late

4:53

and these kind of things

4:55

that really made me feel

4:58

like I was not a

5:00

good adult, I would say.

5:02

And so, yeah, I would say that

5:05

my 20s were really complicated

5:08

because of everything, all the challenges,

5:11

you know, work and just making

5:14

sure, you know, your place

5:16

is not falling out and you have something in your

5:19

fridge every night when you go home

5:21

and just simple stuff but really

5:24

challenging things when you have ADHD and

5:26

especially undiagnosed when you don't really

5:28

understand why

5:30

you struggle so much when people

5:31

around you are just

5:33

starting families and having,

5:35

you know,

5:37

bigger and bigger jobs and

5:39

responsibilities and you are still struggling

5:41

to just

5:42

grocery shop and make yourself something

5:45

to eat every day.

5:47

So I would say, I often describe

5:50

the thing that led to my diagnosis

5:52

as an adulting

5:54

burnout, I would say. It's

5:56

just everything was just too

5:58

much and I...

5:59

I really felt

6:01

like I was really struggling to

6:03

just keep doing the simplest things in life

6:05

and I was thinking, sorry.

6:08

No, no. Can I ask you, Elise, so despite

6:11

the fact that you were struggling with a lot of the things

6:13

around adulting, did

6:16

you always feel like there were certain areas

6:18

that you were just really good at? They

6:21

just came naturally to you and it was easy.

6:24

Or had you not found that yet? I

6:26

would say, you know,

6:29

my parents did a really good job at

6:34

making me a confident child

6:36

and a confident young adult, I would say. So

6:39

when I was younger, it was the case.

6:42

I always felt like something

6:44

was really easy for me. For example,

6:46

I never really worked at school

6:49

but, you know, always managed to have acceptable

6:52

grades, I would say. Around

6:55

my late 20s, this

6:58

kind of really stayed

7:01

away because I think I was really

7:04

struggling with my self-esteem because

7:07

I was failing at so

7:09

many things, you know, over

7:11

again and starting new projects and failing

7:13

and starting new things and failing. Were

7:15

they the wrong projects in hindsight?

7:19

I don't know. Or was it the lack of structure?

7:22

You know, versus in school and in the home. Yeah,

7:25

it was definitely difficult and also because I

7:27

decided to become a freelancer

7:29

because I really

7:32

couldn't end those 9 to 5, you know. It

7:37

was just difficult for

7:39

me to accept that I needed to

7:41

be at a specific place

7:43

from one moment one

7:45

hour to another and just accept

7:48

to be here and, you

7:51

know, just obey. It was

7:53

really difficult because I always

7:55

had so much more

7:57

interesting things to do and wanted

8:00

to do that, so I decided to be a freelancer.

8:03

And it was great because I

8:05

could manage my hours how

8:07

I wanted, but at the same time, it

8:10

was really difficult because all of a sudden, I

8:13

was my own boss and I had to

8:15

put some pressure on myself and

8:19

end up maybe putting too much

8:21

of it. And so- You had

8:23

to create your own structure, right? Yeah,

8:27

but I never really tried to do that. You

8:29

didn't even know that that's what you needed to

8:31

do. No. So interesting to me, at least

8:33

that you used the word obey.

8:38

That's a good word. Why that

8:40

word? So let's back up first

8:42

and can you tell me some of

8:45

the things that you felt you

8:47

failed at? So

8:49

from the time you got out of high school, what were some

8:52

of the things that, you know, you just

8:54

felt like, well, you failed at, and so

8:56

you're just not good at anything. Yeah, well,

8:58

maybe first I

9:01

was failing at finding my

9:03

best. Definitely. I

9:05

was, you know, I started going

9:07

to art school and three months

9:09

later I drop off and then I went

9:12

to culinary school and I drop

9:14

off too. And so yeah, it was

9:16

just, I failed at

9:19

being consistent and I couldn't understand

9:21

why because when you do that one

9:24

time, you know, you drop off and

9:26

you try something else, it's okay, you know,

9:28

everybody can make mistakes. But, you know,

9:30

when it gets to a point where

9:33

you started, you know, 10 different

9:36

career paths and studies and

9:39

you feel like something is really wrong

9:41

with you. Why can't I just stay

9:43

consistent and focus on something? Because I'm

9:46

still on my first year

9:48

of the new thing, of the new study

9:51

I do, for example, and around me

9:53

people are getting graduated.

9:55

And, you know, it's just this,

9:58

in effect.

10:00

So I'm curious, how does someone

10:03

with your talent, I'm just looking at like I

10:05

can't even believe that you created

10:07

this, not only the words,

10:10

because the beauty of, to me,

10:12

this book is the simplicity of it, which

10:14

is so tapping into the ADHD brain,

10:16

but then you have these adorable, you know,

10:19

little illustrations. How did

10:21

you fail at art school? That doesn't

10:23

make any sense to me. What was it? I

10:26

didn't fail, I just got bored. So

10:29

you never really fail, you

10:32

just lose interest. Yeah,

10:34

yeah, definitely. But at the same

10:36

time, you know, maybe I would have failed because

10:39

I think I was trying

10:41

to fit

10:43

in this

10:46

idea that art is complex

10:48

and beautiful and needs many hours,

10:51

you know, to complete a beautiful art piece.

10:54

You must, you know, spend hours and hours

10:56

working and then just making the

10:58

thing extremely complicated

11:01

and difficult in the end. So

11:04

when I started to doodle and post

11:06

my doodle online, I

11:09

mean, it was really interesting

11:11

because I never really valued

11:14

the doodle I

11:16

did because for me, it was

11:18

just the thing I did, you know,

11:20

all my life to spend the time

11:23

in school, for example. And

11:26

so in art school, did they not appreciate

11:28

the doodle? I never showed them

11:31

because, yeah, because to me

11:33

it was just like rubbish.

11:37

You know, it was nothing and I

11:39

needed to be able to draw

11:42

complex portrait and, you know, yeah,

11:45

that's, I'm really not good at

11:48

that. But I'm good at doodling.

11:51

Which had been perfecting for like two

11:53

decades, right? Yeah, I was a master

11:55

at that age. Thanks

11:58

to Ice Koonin. boring classes.

12:01

Okay. So, what

12:03

was Elise like as a child?

12:07

Oh, she was definitely

12:09

super curious, I would say. Very,

12:12

very curious. I had a lot

12:14

of energy too, but I was

12:16

kind of a lonely kid too

12:19

because, yeah, I was the youngest

12:22

one and I was, yeah,

12:24

I was kind of a... In your family? You were the youngest

12:27

one? Yeah. Out of how many

12:29

kids? Who are you? Okay, do you have a sister

12:31

or a brother? A brother, yeah. So,

12:33

I was... And was he very different than you? He

12:37

has ADHD too. Oh! But not

12:39

the same way. Ah. Extremely

12:41

different, but he was diagnosed recently,

12:43

two years ago, because I wouldn't

12:46

say because of me, but yeah, because I told

12:48

him maybe he needed to get

12:51

an assessment right away because... But

12:53

he's very different. But we are

12:55

the same in many ways too. So

12:58

yeah, I was the little baby girl

13:00

of the family and I was really loving

13:03

to draw and play

13:08

and put on costumes and just pretend

13:11

I lived in a magical world. But

13:14

at school I was super chatty

13:16

and just... I had issues

13:19

with my teachers many

13:21

times. But that's like what kind of issues?

13:25

They just felt like I was disrespectful

13:28

because I was so

13:31

spontaneous and energetic

13:33

and they felt

13:35

like I wasn't respecting

13:38

the distance we had to have between

13:40

a teacher and a child and I was just... I

13:44

think because I was also confident

13:46

because of the way my parents helped

13:49

me just be confident. But

13:53

with the years, you know, so I was super chatty

13:56

when I was younger and then in high

13:59

school I... I stopped chatting

14:02

because I know it was

14:04

getting me in trouble. So

14:07

that's why when I really started

14:09

to really

14:11

draw and just do

14:13

that and do my thing in

14:16

class. And I

14:18

remember sometimes I was also

14:20

just playing video games in

14:23

class, just hiding and just finding. So

14:27

you were bored in school too, like

14:30

in lower grades as well.

14:32

I don't know if I was really bored because

14:34

I found ways

14:37

to get distracted with video games

14:39

and then do those and just things. But

14:42

yeah, I was not really interested in what

14:44

the teacher was saying. Yeah.

14:47

But you were able to keep up, no problem. Yeah.

14:50

Yeah, strangely, I just

14:53

did the bare minimum and

14:55

never really got in trouble because of my grades.

14:58

So nobody really noticed anything.

15:01

Just, you know, yeah,

15:04

it had okay. Did you feel that you were

15:06

smarter than your grades indicated? Yeah,

15:10

in a way, yes, definitely. And also

15:12

because when I graduated

15:14

then in communication, I finally

15:17

got a degree at one point and

15:20

I was really extremely

15:22

good at it. And

15:24

I was number one student of

15:26

my class, which was kind

15:29

of a surprise to me. And

15:31

yeah, because I was just super interested

15:34

in the, you know, the topic communication

15:36

was extremely interesting to me. Well,

15:38

and it's so interesting because what you

15:40

studied actually helps, right? In

15:43

what you're doing. Yeah, you know,

15:46

very differently. So you're self-taught,

15:49

doodle

15:50

expert.

15:51

I don't know what do they call

15:54

the, I don't know. Anyway, so

15:56

you're self-taught in the doodles, then

15:59

the communications. I'm sure really helped

16:01

with what you do today. Yes,

16:04

I think it did, yeah. Absolutely.

16:07

So I'm curious, what did your parents

16:10

do for work? Oh,

16:12

actually, my mother was a

16:15

publisher. Ah. She

16:17

worked at the publishing house

16:19

in Paris. And then she

16:21

decided to quit and

16:24

become a writer. And she wrote and she was

16:26

looks for kids. And yeah,

16:28

she was a very creative person.

16:32

My father is,

16:34

he's working for the government. So

16:36

yeah,

16:37

a very ADHD too. So

16:42

do you think both parents are at

16:44

least on the spectrum somewhere?

16:47

Well, my mother is no longer with us.

16:49

So I couldn't tell, but I think

16:51

she definitely was

16:54

extremely inattentive, extremely daydreamy.

16:58

She was really an artist. And

17:00

my father, yeah, he has ADHD.

17:03

He doesn't want to get an assessment

17:05

because he's older and retired and

17:08

definitely don't feel

17:10

the need. But he likes

17:13

to tell me anecdotes about

17:16

how he got in trouble at work, losing stress,

17:19

super important favors and stuff like

17:21

that, and really freaking out and panicking.

17:24

And now he's

17:25

like, oh my God, I can finally understand

17:28

why I was just such a weirdo.

17:31

So yeah, it's really fun to

17:33

see that. So your experience,

17:36

and I'm sure your research and your

17:38

path really helped to shine

17:40

a light on your whole family, right? Where

17:42

they start to understand, oh, this is why

17:45

I think differently.

17:47

Yes. It was extremely beneficial.

17:50

And

17:51

that's why I really started my

17:54

Instagram account because I felt

17:56

like I was the

17:57

first one to...

18:00

dig into this topic in

18:02

my family and then people around me, my

18:04

friends and everyone.

18:06

And

18:07

I was feeling so

18:10

angry in a way that I

18:13

had to do all these researches myself

18:16

and go through the doubt and find

18:18

someone who can assess me and go

18:21

through the shame of wondering if I was

18:24

just legitimate enough to ask

18:26

for an assessment and everything. And

18:28

all that, I just never wanted

18:31

someone else to feel that again. And

18:33

that's why I started to make

18:36

content about ADHD. And as

18:38

soon as I got my diagnosis,

18:41

I also started to talk

18:43

about it in my family a lot. Because

18:47

not just about ADHD, I just

18:49

felt like we needed to talk about

18:52

mental health and everything. Yeah,

18:54

because something

18:57

just changed for me

18:59

and I just wanted everyone to

19:01

feel like they could

19:04

be heard and

19:07

they could just open

19:09

up about this thing and feel safe.

19:12

And I felt like someone had to start

19:14

this conversation. And yeah,

19:17

I really wanted to do that.

19:19

It makes sense. So

19:22

before we leave the ADHD diagnosis

19:25

or just your childhood, frankly, I'd love

19:27

to know you said that your brother's ADHD

19:30

shows up really differently than yours. How

19:32

so? Well, he's

19:36

like a caricature in a way

19:38

because he is really, you know,

19:40

he likes doing

19:42

things that are really exciting

19:44

and extreme like

19:46

he's a

19:49

fan of skateboarding

19:50

and he traveled

19:52

a lot and just

19:54

a jump of plane and just,

19:56

you know, jump of cliffs and just,

19:59

yeah.

19:59

Yeah, just typical ADHD

20:03

guy, I would say. I

20:05

mean, it's really into a lot of extreme

20:07

sports. Yeah, yeah. And

20:09

so, and really, you know,

20:13

I don't know, we are really different. I'm more

20:15

of a calm person.

20:18

I am interactive in a way, but in a

20:20

really different way and

20:22

not so extreme and more like inner-centered

20:26

and creative. So

20:29

it's pretty exciting to see how

20:32

we both have ADHD and at the same time,

20:34

we are so different. And that's why

20:37

this topic is so interesting is

20:39

that

20:40

we have so much in common,

20:42

all people with ADHD, but we are so

20:44

different because we are still

20:46

very unique individually and it's really

20:48

important to remember

20:50

that. Well, it sounds like your brother

20:53

is more the

20:53

classic

20:55

ADHD, right? When you think of what

20:57

ADHD looks like, that boy who's bouncing

20:59

off the walls. Yeah.

21:02

Losing, you know, keys

21:04

and wallets and phones

21:07

every week.

21:09

It's

21:11

funny to see that. But yeah.

21:14

So I'm curious, you're in France and

21:16

I remember, I think it was in 2012, a psychologist by

21:20

the name of Marilyn Wedge. She

21:22

wrote an article and I think it was

21:25

titled, Why French Kids Don't Have ADHD. And

21:27

so basically what she was trying to say

21:29

is there's no such thing as ADHD. And

21:33

you know, obviously she didn't believe in

21:35

ADHD like it's a religion or something, right?

21:38

And so

21:39

I remember doing research around that article

21:41

because I had done a podcast episode

21:43

on it. And I

21:46

think the upshot of it was ADHD

21:48

was rarely diagnosed in France,

21:51

yet what I discovered

21:54

is people self-medicated

21:57

more. So

21:58

the back of my head is really, really, really, really important.

21:59

that it wasn't diagnosed as a child came out

22:02

in all different other ways, right?

22:04

So I am curious, what is this?

22:06

I mean, this was back in 2012. So over 10 years ago, what's going on

22:09

in France today?

22:13

Is there still this idea that, oh, there's no such

22:15

thing as ADHD, or is it slowly

22:17

coming around? Yeah,

22:19

it's getting better. Fortunately,

22:22

because we really need a change here,

22:25

but

22:26

it's slowly

22:29

getting better. But

22:30

it's a cultural thing, I think

22:32

we have really...

22:35

When you go to see a psychiatrist

22:38

in France, most of the time it

22:40

will be someone who is doing psychoanalysis

22:43

and really trying to make

22:46

you talk and make you talk about your

22:48

past and your traumas and everything. And

22:50

it's really interesting. It's something that has

22:53

a value. But they

22:55

often really don't believe in ADHD.

22:59

It's really perceived in France

23:01

as an American thing. And actually, I

23:03

was just on the phone earlier

23:05

today with my aunt, which she

23:08

is a psychologist, but she's a

23:10

holder. And

23:14

I talked to her about my book, which was

23:17

getting out in French yesterday.

23:19

So very exciting. And

23:22

she said something like, oh yeah, ADHD,

23:24

like, yeah, this American thing. Yeah,

23:28

it's from the US. And

23:31

we manufactured it here. And

23:35

there has

23:37

been this vision. It's changing,

23:39

but it's still around of this thing

23:44

that American people have.

23:47

And they like to

23:50

tell kids that they have ADHD, so

23:52

they can give

23:54

them really strong drugs. And it's

23:57

all this American big

23:59

pharma thing. And it's really mainstream

24:02

belief in France still. So

24:05

we are fighting against that.

24:07

It's not easy. But

24:10

I think it will get better. And yeah,

24:13

but as I told you, my

24:15

book is just getting out in France. And

24:17

I see people are just

24:20

buying it in a

24:22

way. They

24:25

need it so much, just

24:27

because we don't have anything

24:29

like this here. It's really,

24:31

for example, my bookshop

24:35

in my, the biggest bookshop in my town

24:37

in Bordeaux, they still label

24:40

the category for the books for ADHD

24:43

as just hyperactivity. It's

24:46

the labels it is, just to

24:48

find the books. It's just hyperactivity, the

24:50

categories for activity. So

24:53

there's no category of ADHD, is

24:55

what you're saying? No, for them it's

24:57

just, yeah, if you

25:00

are looking for a book about ADHD,

25:02

you will find it under the section hyperactivity.

25:05

So, okay, it's weird. And

25:08

you know, it's a big bookstore.

25:09

So

25:11

that's super exciting, though. If there's

25:13

nothing out there and you're leading the charge,

25:15

I try to. But

25:17

no, I'm not alone because, yeah,

25:21

for the past few years, a lot of people are

25:23

trying to get the word out

25:26

there that it is something and it exists.

25:29

But yeah. Are there French

25:31

psychiatrists who are also,

25:34

and psychologists, you know, medical doctors, are they

25:36

also talking about this or not really? Nobody's

25:39

kind of stood up and said,

25:42

well, some are. The age is real. Some

25:44

are, but it's

25:46

not as big as in the

25:49

US still. So yeah. And

25:51

for example, we talked about my brother, Halia,

25:53

and you know, he is really like the stereotype

25:56

of ADHD and he was diagnosed

25:59

at...

26:00

certified.

26:02

Wow. And because I told

26:04

him about it and you know. So he

26:06

wasn't able to find someone though who actually

26:09

did understand what ADHD looks like.

26:11

Because we still have yeah pretty

26:13

good specialists we need to find

26:16

them which is not easy there are not

26:18

plenty of them and also there is a

26:20

big waiting list especially if you

26:22

want to see someone in the public

26:25

system and and and you know in

26:27

that case you don't have to pay for your assessment

26:29

which is great but when you have to

26:31

wait two years for it you

26:33

know free is yeah

26:36

it's great but still if you need to wait two

26:38

years it can be complicated

26:40

so yeah but it's exciting

26:43

because we we have to do

26:45

yeah a lot of you know it's

26:48

really a free

26:50

canvas in in in this sense in

26:53

France and any we there are a lot

26:55

of things to do to to improve ADHD

26:57

awareness and at the same time

26:59

I would say this is a you

27:01

know is a positive

27:04

aspect of it is that we don't have as

27:06

much stereotypes about ADHD

27:09

because we didn't grow up with ADHD

27:12

kids labors you know in our classroom

27:15

so it can be anyone that's yeah

27:18

does that mean that girls

27:20

and women are just as likely to be

27:22

diagnosed it's not like here in the US

27:25

where everybody thinks it's

27:27

the hyperactive boy I wouldn't

27:29

go that far but now you know everybody

27:32

is getting dinos late here

27:35

no kids are getting diagnosed too and and

27:37

and of course boys

27:39

are getting dinos much more

27:42

but I would say

27:44

maybe it's more balanced I

27:46

don't know I don't have

27:48

you know numbers too but

27:50

in my perception yeah maybe

27:52

but we'll see in a few years how

27:54

it goes. So if you get diagnosed in

27:56

France do they prescribe stimulant medication?

27:59

Wow, that's a really

28:01

complicated question here. It's

28:04

a complete career area. It's really

28:08

complicated because basically,

28:11

like, the medication is authorized

28:15

on the French market for kids, but

28:17

not for adults. Not

28:19

yet.

28:21

So

28:23

you can get it, but it's

28:25

not like, it's

28:28

not really what your doctor

28:30

should do if they follow the guidelines.

28:33

It's not illegal. You

28:36

know, it's really complicated. So

28:39

it's not easy. No,

28:41

you have to have like

28:44

a very good doctor that knows

28:47

what he's doing and he's confident

28:49

in prescribing you this.

28:51

Because if you just go to

28:54

any doctor and you start talking

28:56

about stimulant medication like that,

28:59

yeah, they would probably freak out

29:01

a bit.

29:02

Wow.

29:03

So what do people do when they get diagnosed?

29:05

Well, they start

29:08

to understand themselves. Yeah.

29:11

So yeah, first, and sometimes

29:14

you can take medication. A

29:16

lot of people are still doing it, but it's

29:19

complicated because we don't have the same

29:21

medication as you. We don't have

29:24

all the options you have. Like we have,

29:26

I think, one or two molecules just

29:29

allowed here. So yeah, it's

29:31

complicated. So I would say I cannot

29:33

speak for everyone because it

29:35

really depends on if you, you

29:38

know, if you go in Paris and you have

29:40

like a top-notch specialist,

29:42

you will be treated maybe just

29:44

like someone in the US. But

29:46

if you live like in the countryside here

29:49

and you just manage to

29:51

have someone barely

29:53

understanding ADHD, but still

29:56

trying to help you, maybe

29:58

you won't get medication. or you will have

30:01

something that you

30:03

won't have options. So

30:04

yeah, it's very complicated. So you

30:07

exercise a lot.

30:09

Yeah, and we drink wine. So that's

30:13

exactly what my

30:15

point was. You know, like the levels

30:17

of alcohol use addiction are

30:20

much higher. And it's not

30:22

just ADHD, right? It's a lot of other

30:24

mental health challenges

30:27

that are just kind of swept under the carpet. Yes.

30:30

And the interesting thing I remember in this

30:33

podcast episode that I did was

30:35

that, yes, there's this idea that, oh, there's

30:37

no ADHD in France. But the

30:39

fact of the matter is ADHD has

30:41

never been studied in France. How

30:44

can you say there's no ADHD, right?

30:46

We just say, it's not here. No.

30:50

Doesn't que se bon. That's

30:53

a really, really, it's just a really interesting

30:55

subject. I've been following

30:57

it for a while because it's fascinating to

30:59

me. OK, so you've

31:02

now been doing this for how long? With

31:04

the doodling and the ADHD? Three

31:06

years now. Three years. Is that the longest time

31:08

you've ever done anything? Yeah. What's

31:12

the difference between this versus

31:14

all of the other things that you tried? What have you

31:17

learned about you? The

31:19

difference, the first one, I would say, is

31:21

the instant feedback I

31:23

got.

31:25

When I posted my first doodle on Instagram,

31:28

it was on an Instagram account

31:31

that I already had about

31:34

crafting stuff that I did. It's

31:36

an Instagram account that

31:39

I used six months and just

31:41

quits and just come back to, you know,

31:44

because there's no feedback. Yeah,

31:46

but I had a community of people,

31:48

like 1,000 people, just following

31:50

my

31:51

creative stuff. Yeah, but

31:53

yeah, it was not a lot. It

31:56

was very nice and super nice people.

31:58

So when I started posting, I was like, OK. my doodles,

32:01

I had feedback already. Like people

32:03

telling me in my creative community, oh,

32:06

but I was diagnosed last year

32:08

or something like that.

32:10

And so I would say definitely getting

32:12

this instant feedback from Instagram

32:15

really helped me

32:17

keeping the interest

32:20

in and especially as for

32:23

the first six months

32:24

at least I

32:26

posted every day.

32:28

Was that easy for you because I

32:30

find Instagram, honestly, I find

32:32

all the social media. I just, I like suck

32:35

at it because of the consistency that's required.

32:38

But for you, was this easy?

32:40

It was,

32:43

I was at such a low point

32:45

in my life right before and

32:47

right at the moment, I always say my

32:49

first drawing, if you scroll back, you will

32:52

find it. It's just my character

32:54

saying I have ADHD and it's okay.

32:57

But it was like the opposite of what

33:00

I was thinking at this moment. I felt

33:02

extremely down. I felt extremely different.

33:05

It was not okay. No, it was

33:07

absolutely not okay. I was the opposite

33:09

of okay.

33:11

Really, I would say one of the

33:14

really,

33:15

yeah, most difficult time of my life.

33:17

I was

33:19

diagnosed this, I mean, first

33:22

I felt released,

33:23

but then just

33:26

a

33:28

huge wave of negative emotions

33:31

and I wasn't prepared for them.

33:33

It was extremely difficult and I

33:35

felt extremely sad, extremely

33:38

depressed. And so I

33:40

posted this just,

33:42

here goes nothing and just

33:45

anyways, and things

33:46

clicked and something

33:48

happened. I

33:51

don't know why, I just, I got lucky, I

33:54

would say, and

33:54

I started posting and every day I

33:57

got,

33:59

I was

33:59

just waking up and I got, you

34:02

know, the first six months of growth of my Instagram

34:04

account was just

34:07

through the roof, incredible. I never saw

34:09

that. I never... It was extremely,

34:12

extremely stimulating. Six

34:14

months later, I needed to, you

34:17

know, cut down a bit on the publication

34:19

rhythm and everything because I just

34:21

burned out again. So I was

34:23

just completely

34:24

obsessed. At the same time, was

34:27

there just so much positive

34:29

emotion there? So it helped to

34:31

get you out of that really dark time?

34:33

Yeah.

34:34

The thing is, I kept doing

34:36

it because it always saved

34:39

me, you know, from this

34:41

really dark place. And so I just needed

34:44

to have this connection with the community

34:46

and just keeping having this

34:49

positive feedback. So just, you

34:51

know, commenting, oh, I do that too or it's

34:53

relatable or, you know, it's

34:55

funny and just

34:58

seeing that emotion, it

35:01

was just so

35:03

good, you know. And I felt so useless

35:06

before, I think, and I

35:08

was feeling useful

35:10

again and

35:12

it was really addicting. And,

35:15

yeah, so that's why I think it

35:17

worked because there is this

35:19

instant gratification almost.

35:22

But it was because I think I

35:25

got really lucky with the Instagram

35:27

algorithm at this moment. You know, they

35:30

were really fun of carousels and

35:32

I posted carousels and

35:34

so... Right.

35:35

It's not the same time now. So,

35:38

yeah, it's

35:40

not like I can say to someone, just do

35:42

that and, you know, it will be okay because no,

35:45

I don't know how to, you

35:47

know, how things change

35:49

on social media. And I

35:52

think I just, yeah, I was there at the

35:54

right moment. And,

35:56

you know, I think to Elise

35:58

what I can relate to...

35:59

is

36:01

you did this first

36:04

and foremost

36:06

to learn about you, right?

36:08

And to

36:09

get support for you, but

36:12

at the same time you were helping other people.

36:14

So you're both helping each other. And

36:16

that's the exact same experience I

36:19

had with the podcast.

36:20

I started it because

36:24

I wanted guardrails on my learning.

36:26

And I knew that I might let myself

36:28

down, but just one person

36:31

comes to me and says, you're making a difference in my

36:33

life and I would never let them down. And

36:36

it sounds like the same thing just with a medium,

36:39

right? Exactly. And so you didn't

36:41

care about followers. You didn't care about any of that.

36:43

You just kind of kept your head down because

36:45

the

36:46

positive emotion, like it was going both

36:48

ways, right? Yeah, exactly. And

36:51

you just feel less lonely. And

36:54

it's just an amazing feeling when

36:57

someone is telling you, oh my

36:59

God,

37:01

you really helped

37:03

me. You made a difference in my life.

37:06

And no, I can say that people

37:08

really say that to me.

37:10

And myself, it's hard to believe, but,

37:14

and it's just, wow,

37:17

it's such a gift to be able to do that

37:19

and also to feel this feedback.

37:22

And it's just, yeah, and

37:24

it's addicting. Definitely. It's awesome.

37:28

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40:44

forget. I know you. I

40:50

was just talking to a gentleman who

40:52

I met at a conference a couple weeks ago,

40:54

and he's been talking about starting

40:56

a podcast on basically toxic

40:58

masculinity, and he lives in Texas.

41:01

And

41:03

what is inspiring this need to do a

41:05

podcast or this desire to do a podcast

41:07

is, of course, you know, his childhood

41:09

and things that happened to him, but also

41:11

he just had a brand new

41:13

baby boy. And so he

41:15

wants the

41:16

world to be different for him.

41:18

And what I was telling him is forget

41:21

about, and he's really good at tech, so he doesn't have

41:23

to worry about any of that, which

41:25

was hard initially. But I was telling

41:27

him, just forget about you don't have the followers,

41:30

you know, all the things, reasons why you can't

41:32

do it and focus on the

41:35

fact that you need to do this. It's your

41:37

voice and you need to get it out there.

41:40

And it

41:41

is the best self-development

41:44

thing you will ever do for yourself. You think

41:46

you're going out there to help other people, but

41:49

you're going to learn so much about yourself in

41:51

the process, and you will be a different person from

41:54

the time you start to the time that, you know,

41:56

I don't know, you're a year in. Do you

41:59

agree with that? No matter what

42:01

the medium, right?

42:02

Yes, completely.

42:05

I think it's really,

42:07

as you say, you know, it's just,

42:10

in the end, I think

42:13

I needed something. I

42:16

needed to find something,

42:18

to create something, to

42:20

just feel something. And

42:23

in the end, you have to put

42:27

it in front of other people if

42:29

you want it to exist. And it's extremely

42:31

scary and terrifying,

42:34

but at the same way, it's just,

42:36

it's a bit selfish in the, you

42:38

know, but it's in the good way.

42:41

I mean, it's really a selfish need to

42:43

just share your voice.

42:44

And

42:47

it's so amazing to see that you can bring

42:49

value to others.

42:51

Especially as we, people

42:53

with ADHD, we struggle often with

42:56

self-esteem, and I definitely

42:58

do. And just

43:00

the reading messages of people saying

43:03

that, yeah, I made a difference for

43:05

them, it's just,

43:07

oh, sometimes I really

43:09

need these messages. You

43:11

had a string of all of the things that you needed.

43:14

Could it also be that

43:16

you needed to read something? Because

43:19

I have

43:20

this

43:21

premise, just, you know, we're

43:23

patterned people, right? And we see

43:25

all of the thousands of ADHD women that

43:27

I've had the privilege of meeting, and

43:30

all of them are brilliant at something. And

43:32

because we're so mission-driven, it's

43:34

not enough for us to just kind of fit into

43:36

the crowd. We don't fit into the crowd. We never

43:39

have, right? We need to stand

43:41

out, and we stand out by leading in

43:43

the area that is connected to our

43:46

mission. Would you agree

43:48

with that? And that seems to be where we're happiest.

43:51

Yeah, well, you know, I don't know

43:53

if I wanted to lead

43:56

something, because at the same time, I'm really

43:58

shy and private. person

44:00

and that's why you know so

44:03

many people haven't seen my face and

44:05

you know I'm just hiding. Beautiful

44:08

face. Wow thank you. Just

44:10

don't make me blush. But

44:14

yeah so I don't know if I am

44:16

just, but at

44:18

the same time yeah I would say I

44:21

don't want to

44:23

be this typical you know leader

44:25

of something but I

44:27

definitely want to drive,

44:31

drive my drive firstly

44:33

but also

44:34

drive other people you know

44:37

in you know this thing and just take

44:39

other people with me and just

44:41

create

44:43

interesting things and just yeah

44:45

it's so you

44:48

know fulfilling

44:50

to be able to experience that and at the

44:52

same time I always I

44:54

really think about other people

44:56

that don't really feel this fulfilling

44:59

thing yet because

45:01

before I started this

45:04

Instagram account

45:06

I felt you know so useless,

45:09

so useless and so

45:11

yeah I don't

45:16

know I really didn't find

45:18

my purpose and it

45:20

was extremely difficult

45:23

to live with this weight

45:25

on my shoulder to feel that useless

45:27

and I feel like I was

45:29

failing at finding it too

45:32

you know.

45:33

I was trying to find something

45:35

my thing you know and

45:38

I couldn't and I tried and I couldn't

45:40

and I tried and I failed

45:42

and I think right before

45:44

I started this I was really

45:47

not far from giving up completely

45:49

you know just saying okay maybe I

45:51

just don't have something to bring to other

45:53

people like I cannot bring value

45:55

to other I just

45:56

I will live my life just

45:59

like this. And yeah, it was depressing.

46:03

And so, but I keep thinking about

46:08

these people who are in my

46:10

comments, in my DM, and telling

46:12

me I am in a dark place because

46:14

I feel useless. I feel like I'm

46:17

not able to keep doing something.

46:19

I'm unable to stay consistent and I

46:21

just, I feel like a waste. And

46:24

yeah, and I know that

46:26

I was lucky. I think I was lucky. I

46:28

couldn't really explain how

46:30

it worked, why I finally found

46:33

my path and I feel

46:36

better now. And yeah, I

46:38

just, I have a lot

46:40

of empathy for all those

46:43

who are a bit. What I would add though,

46:46

and someone's going to get really angry when I say

46:48

this, but we also make our own luck.

46:50

So you decided to

46:53

try this,

46:55

right?

46:56

And all of a sudden

46:58

it worked and

46:59

I keep coming back to your word obey.

47:02

And then

47:04

the other side of that is lead.

47:07

And when you're doing what you're doing with your Instagram

47:09

account, you're not obeying anybody, right?

47:13

You're doing what you want to do,

47:14

except for maybe when you wrote this

47:16

book. I mean, that's what was so hard for me about

47:19

writing a book is, you know,

47:21

you have publishers and acquiring

47:23

editors and editors. I

47:26

mean, it's been decades since someone told me what to

47:28

do, right? Yes.

47:32

Yes, I can agree on that. They thought they

47:34

were there because they've done this

47:36

before. They know how to do it. But

47:38

still, like I could just feel myself like doing

47:41

this, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

47:44

Especially when, you

47:44

know, you've been doing something like, like,

47:47

I do like just doodling

47:49

around and just

47:51

nobody's really telling me, oh, this

47:53

doodle is not right.

47:56

I do those all right because they're doodles,

47:58

you know, they cannot. I

48:00

don't love my doodles, right? How do you know they're

48:03

not right?

48:04

But yes, at the same time,

48:06

the truth is I

48:08

couldn't have done it without them,

48:10

you know,

48:11

because I needed to obey,

48:13

you know? Yeah. I had a deadline and

48:15

stuff like that and it also helped

48:17

because

48:20

by myself I try to... Yeah, I

48:22

tend to say the segert-zis. Yeah. This

48:25

is interesting. I keep bringing up the word

48:27

obey. I could not

48:29

self-publish a book because

48:32

I would not obey,

48:34

right? I mean, it would be all up to

48:36

me. And so I knew that

48:40

the only way that I would be willing

48:42

to obey, because I wanted it to be

48:44

that quality, is if whomever

48:47

I was dealing with was high enough, right? Yeah.

48:50

So it had to be a traditional publisher

48:53

because then I would respect, at least

48:55

for the most part, what

48:58

it is that they're asking me to do versus if I don't... If

49:01

I'm constantly questioning it and I

49:03

don't respect who they are,

49:05

then we'd have a problem.

49:07

Yeah. I can definitely relate

49:09

to that. Actually, I

49:11

self-published a workbook, you

49:12

know? I have my pre-diagnosis

49:15

workbook, which is

49:17

really something that I made quite

49:20

early on my Instagram journey

49:23

because I was so passionate about,

49:26

you know, this pre-diagnosis

49:29

moment when you're just full of doubt.

49:32

And

49:32

it was really a nightmare for me. I

49:34

lived, like,

49:35

years and months and weeks before

49:38

my assessment, just doubting every

49:40

moment of my life, like, do I have

49:43

ADHD? Is this a DHD? Is this a symptom? Yeah.

49:46

No, of course not. You don't have ADHD.

49:47

You're just lazy.

49:49

It's a good... It's just grown up and just, you

49:51

know, in this madness

49:53

in my head.

49:55

It was terrible, so I decided

49:57

to quite totally to create a

49:59

workbook.

49:59

workbook that just described,

50:02

you know, the official symptom in a way

50:05

that was just not as

50:07

weird as in the official documents,

50:09

which, you know, I'll just... It's not like the

50:11

DSM-5, which... Yeah,

50:13

completely weird stuff. Like,

50:16

really difficult. It doesn't... Certainly

50:18

if you're a grown woman, it doesn't

50:21

apply. It sits quietly in place,

50:23

you know, by herself. Yeah. No, it

50:25

doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense, but if you

50:27

tell me, oh, she goes on vacation and she

50:29

can't sit still, right? She can't sit by

50:31

the pool like everybody else or the beach. No.

50:34

We're always organizing. My kids and my family

50:37

are just like... We

50:39

have a rule. Okay, I'll sit there for two days, but

50:41

for every two days, sort of, I

50:44

get to plan something that we do, you know? We

50:47

go out and we explore and it's something

50:49

different. That's math. So

50:51

why did you write this book?

50:54

Because

50:55

people kept, you know, sending me messages

50:58

and asking me, oh, did

51:00

you cover this topic? And on

51:03

Instagram, it's hard to find, you know,

51:05

a post, really. There

51:07

is no search box. Yeah. So

51:09

I created my website where everything... You

51:11

can find everything too, but... And

51:13

it's organized? I didn't see that. So

51:16

all the posts are organized according to categories

51:18

on your website or... Yeah. You

51:21

can find definitely different

51:23

categories and different topics and also

51:25

you can search. So

51:26

that's convenient.

51:28

But I really wanted to... I

51:30

saw that people really liked the experience

51:33

of,

51:34

you know,

51:35

scrolling through my posts on Instagram

51:37

and

51:39

I think,

51:41

you know, we still need

51:42

tangible objects even if we are living

51:44

in a really digital world.

51:48

I really wanted to give

51:50

people something that they can hold and just

51:54

open, you know, just anywhere

51:56

and read two sentences and

51:58

feel better and just... put the

52:00

book not where it belongs because,

52:02

you know, it's

52:03

ADHD. So I thought, yeah, the coach, I don't

52:06

know. Where are my glasses?

52:08

On the kitchen counter. Yeah. And

52:10

just, I think because

52:13

I was brought up in a

52:15

household where books were such

52:17

a big thing because of my mother and

52:19

I

52:20

just love books, you know.

52:22

I have

52:25

a lot of them. I haven't read them all. But,

52:28

yeah, it's just

52:31

such a good feeling to just

52:33

sometimes you just feel less lonely with

52:36

a book. And that's really what I wanted

52:38

to create and

52:39

just

52:40

give a bit of comfort. I

52:42

think it's really that an ally.

52:46

Had you always, I mean, you have a mom

52:49

who's a writer, who was a writer. Had

52:52

you always thought, I want to write a book,

52:54

but maybe you didn't know on what?

52:57

Yeah, I think I always wanted

52:59

to write, but I imagined

53:02

myself more as a novel writer

53:04

or

53:05

something, you know, just

53:08

imagining a story and

53:10

just completely weird,

53:12

you know, exciting story that could become

53:15

a movie, a freaking ghost note.

53:18

But

53:18

not really that serious. But I

53:20

was writing as,

53:23

yeah, it was my job, but

53:25

I was as a freelance writer, you

53:27

know, I was writing about different

53:30

topics on the internet. Not really,

53:32

you know, high quality writing.

53:34

But, yeah, I think I

53:37

always imagined myself. But maybe

53:40

when I was older, you know, as an

53:42

old lady publishing. Yeah,

53:45

a romantic novel. I don't know. Well,

53:48

I think your publisher mom would

53:51

have been so proud.

53:52

Yeah, I think so.

53:55

Sorry. The same don't

53:57

start it, please. I know. I

54:00

just lost my mom myself. Okay,

54:03

what are the ADHD traits that

54:06

you feel are responsible for your success?

54:08

Sorry, I didn't mean to mention

54:11

It's okay

54:14

It's okay. I'm sorry. Yeah

54:16

I

54:18

would say in

54:20

a way

54:23

my inability to

54:25

Become a good, you know

54:27

artist and a good drawer

54:30

because I

54:32

Couldn't you know keep?

54:34

focusing on on techniques

54:35

help me

54:36

develop this way of drawing that

54:39

is really extremely simple and

54:41

then in childish but at the same time

54:43

I

54:44

can see that

54:46

it conveys a lot of emotion and and

54:48

it is a simplicity of it

54:50

Make it quite universal. I think

54:53

and so

54:54

In a way, it's just

54:56

an Accidental balance I would

54:59

say Is there anything

55:01

else?

55:02

My curiosity I would say yeah,

55:04

definitely you know, we

55:06

are driven by novelty

55:09

and dopamine and and an

55:12

exciting thing then just and

55:15

of course It

55:17

plays a big role in in in just

55:20

being able to make connections Where

55:23

other people might not do them

55:25

and and you know

55:26

what I really like to do is show

55:29

how ADHD is impacting

55:32

our everyday life even in

55:35

Weird things like putting yeah

55:37

the way we put on makeup. Oh, yeah It's

55:39

it's

55:40

it's really silly sometimes but in

55:42

a way I would say that an or a typical

55:45

Doctor or you know medical

55:48

professional

55:50

Couldn't really write this about

55:52

ADHD because yeah No,

55:54

their brain doesn't work the same that they

55:56

bring value in their

55:59

way and I think

55:59

Thank you for, I

56:00

thank them for all that and

56:02

they're great but yeah, it's

56:05

just another perspective. Well,

56:07

and I think too having a following that large,

56:10

again, we see patterns

56:12

where I think many doctors,

56:14

they're not around that many

56:17

people with ADHD day to day,

56:19

right? Yeah. I mean, thousands, you

56:21

know, and you get all of these comments and we start

56:23

seeing these patterns. Definitely. So

56:26

I am fascinated, was there something in here

56:28

about how we put makeup on differently? Oh,

56:31

there it is, makeup. That's

56:33

so funny. So my thing is I get so

56:36

bored that I can't put makeup on

56:38

in front of a mirror. So

56:40

I'm either putting it on in the car while my

56:42

husband's driving and I love that,

56:44

you know, if we have to be somewhere and we have 15 minutes

56:46

to get there, I can't spend any more time than that. So

56:49

it just goes like really quick. But

56:51

are there other things that we do? Full

56:53

makeup, yeah. I

56:56

would say that there

56:58

is this thing that

57:00

we can hyper focus on makeup and just,

57:02

you know, some of us are like full

57:05

source of makeup because, you know, you're just completely

57:08

running out and maybe listening to a podcast

57:10

and completely like hyper focus on

57:12

your own face and you know, and

57:14

it's creative expression to

57:17

us. So yeah. And I

57:19

would say, you know, there is this and the other side

57:21

is just like

57:22

quick mascara, like

57:24

blurring and you don't even notice. Yeah.

57:28

So, you know, barely brush my teeth

57:30

and just, okay, I'm all right.

57:32

I'm late. So I need to go. So

57:35

yeah, it's just, you know, this makeup

57:38

section, actually my publisher was

57:40

like a bit skeptical, like

57:42

really, you really want to talk about

57:45

this small subject. It

57:47

doesn't feel like super important, but I

57:49

was like, it was one

57:52

of the most liked

57:54

posts on my Instagram account. I

57:56

think people

57:57

really related to it.

57:59

what you were saying, which is so true, I've

58:02

been diagnosed three times because I

58:04

kept thinking, well, you can't have done all

58:06

this stuff and have ADHD, right? That is

58:08

just not the norm. And

58:11

so it's the little

58:13

things that I discovered, like what you're

58:15

talking about here about makeup or

58:17

interpersonal intuition, it's

58:20

those little things that you never realized

58:22

are connected to ADHD that

58:25

help us to see that, oh, that's weird,

58:27

right? Not everybody can do

58:29

that, not everybody does that.

58:32

Definitely, and I completely relate,

58:34

I was diagnosed twice, so yeah,

58:36

the first time was not enough for me. I

58:38

needed to see even

58:41

bigger specialists, just

58:43

to be sure. Right. So

58:45

much doubts, and yeah, I think

58:48

knowing the little things, and that's why

58:51

I watched a lot of YouTube

58:53

channels

58:54

at the time of, yeah,

58:56

women explaining how

58:59

ADHD, I really wanted just to,

59:01

I could have paid someone just

59:04

to take me with

59:06

her in our daily life, just to observe

59:09

how her ADHD would manifest

59:12

in our daily life, just to understand,

59:14

because when you are in this position of

59:17

doubts, it's really difficult to figure

59:20

out, what is ADHD, what

59:22

is not, and what you are maybe just

59:25

imagining, and yeah,

59:26

it's really complicated, so

59:29

I hope that by

59:31

describing this,

59:32

even mundane things sometimes,

59:35

it just brings a bit of

59:37

confidence for the people

59:40

who are right before their

59:42

diagnosis, or right after, because we are

59:44

still having doubts, after, so yeah.

59:47

So what do you think the key to living successfully

59:49

with ADHD is?

59:52

I would say self-understanding,

59:54

yeah, and just, I

59:56

would say that the key is that there is not really

59:59

one

59:59

key. and you need to

1:00:01

find your own key.

1:00:03

And, um,

1:00:05

I really emphasize on the fact that we are all

1:00:07

extremely different. And what is

1:00:10

very important to do is to

1:00:12

try things. And because we, especially

1:00:15

when we are diagnosed later, we

1:00:17

spent our life

1:00:18

not trying

1:00:20

to do the thing our way and trying

1:00:23

to fit in and, and do the things the way

1:00:25

we have to do it.

1:00:26

And so the big thing for me

1:00:28

is just allow yourselves to

1:00:31

try to do the things the way you do what is

1:00:33

important is the outcome. Uh, and really

1:00:35

if you need to,

1:00:37

you know, do the dishes, um, you

1:00:39

know, just,

1:00:40

I don't know, dancing around and then just,

1:00:43

uh, I don't know,

1:00:45

listening to podcasts, yeah, just

1:00:48

making a mess and just doing your thing.

1:00:51

Yeah. With a really, uh, strong coconut

1:00:53

smell, dish soap, I don't know, because gosh,

1:00:56

it's so important what the dish soap is. I'm sorry.

1:01:00

So yeah, whatever. Just do

1:01:02

your thing and, and, and just

1:01:04

feel confident on the fact that you, you are

1:01:07

allowed to do the thing the way

1:01:09

you want and, and, and if you don't

1:01:11

find the

1:01:12

way that it's working for you as

1:01:14

the first time, it's okay to try something

1:01:17

else

1:01:17

and if something is working and then

1:01:19

not working and then it's working again, it's

1:01:22

okay to,

1:01:23

I mean, we are not robots. So,

1:01:25

and I think

1:01:27

the only way to achieve that is just

1:01:29

to really develop

1:01:32

this self

1:01:33

awareness and, and, and this

1:01:36

relationship to ourself and being able

1:01:38

to

1:01:38

assess our needs,

1:01:40

assess how we feel, how we do, and

1:01:42

just, you know,

1:01:44

constantly just iterate on

1:01:46

this thing and, and try the narrow.

1:01:48

And yeah, so there is really

1:01:51

not one key.

1:01:52

No, I couldn't agree more. So

1:01:55

at least where can

1:01:57

people find you if they want to know more

1:01:59

about you. and what you do, they

1:02:01

want to buy your book, where do they go for all

1:02:03

of this?

1:02:05

So they can find me on Instagram

1:02:07

of course, the Mini ADHD

1:02:09

Coach in English and

1:02:12

on my website miniadhdcoach.com

1:02:15

and there is a lot of

1:02:18

things there, a lot of articles

1:02:20

about ADHD

1:02:23

and my book there, my

1:02:25

pre-diagnosis workbook too and also

1:02:27

we have a section about diagnosis

1:02:31

journeys interview when people

1:02:33

are explaining how they

1:02:36

came to their diagnosis and

1:02:38

you know what made... really

1:02:41

the question you asked me you know what what

1:02:43

was a sign where there were kids and everything

1:02:45

and so I think it's really

1:02:47

it's really nice to be able to read

1:02:49

you know these interviews and and just

1:02:53

feel like you're not alone when when you are

1:02:56

wondering if you could have ADHD or when

1:02:58

you are just diagnosed. So yeah

1:03:01

that's wonderful. Just so everyone's

1:03:03

clear, the Instagram is

1:03:05

the underscore mini

1:03:08

underscore ADHD underscore

1:03:11

coach. Yeah. And so

1:03:13

if they go to Instagram, they will find

1:03:15

the links for everything else including the book

1:03:17

there. Yes.

1:03:19

Elise, thank you so much for spending

1:03:21

time with us here today. Thank you,

1:03:23

Tracy. Absolutely. So

1:03:26

that's what I have for you for this week. If you like

1:03:28

this episode with Elise, please let us

1:03:31

know by leaving a review. Our goal

1:03:33

is to change the conversation around ADHD,

1:03:35

helping as many women as we possibly

1:03:38

can learn how their ADHD

1:03:40

brains work so that they too may discover their amazing

1:03:43

strengths just like Elise,

1:03:45

the Doodle Queen.

1:03:46

And of course your reviews really help in

1:03:48

that regard. As always, you're listening

1:03:50

to ADHD for Smartass Women. Come

1:03:53

join me over at TracyOutsuka.com. Thank

1:03:56

you so much for listening and I'll see you here next week.

1:04:01

You've been listening to the ADHD

1:04:03

for Smart-Assed Women podcast. I'm

1:04:06

your host, Tracy Otsuka. Join

1:04:08

us at ADHDforsmartwomen.com

1:04:11

where you can find more information on my new

1:04:14

book, ADHD for Smart-Assed

1:04:16

Women and my patented Your ADHD

1:04:18

Brain is A-OK System to

1:04:21

help you get in-depth and fall

1:04:23

in love with your brilliant

1:04:24

brain. Thanks

1:04:30

for listening.

1:04:31

I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka.