0:01

The increasing demands, increasing

0:04

anxiety, a reduction in tolerance,

0:06

and loss of control. Those four

0:08

things will activate

0:11

the nervous system, period. The problem

0:13

is, for people with ADHD and autism, because

0:16

our world is not built with us in mind, demands,

0:19

anxiety, reduction in tolerance, loss of control is

0:22

on us almost from the moment we wake up

0:25

in the morning. So our

0:28

window for tolerance of extra

0:30

stressors is smaller, but

0:32

that's just because of the system

0:35

of the world we live in. If we lived

0:37

in this alternate universe where the

0:39

world was built for ADHD-ers, and

0:42

we asked somebody who was neurotypical

0:44

to like, hey, we need you to see full picture, they

0:46

would also be experiencing the same things, like procrastination,

0:49

distraction, you know, excuses, like

0:52

not in activation.

0:56

Richard Branson, Michael Phelps,

0:59

Justin Timberlake, James

1:01

Carville. Wait a minute,

1:03

where are the women?

1:08

Greta Gerwig, Lisa

1:10

Ling, Audra McDonald, Simone

1:13

Biles. That sounds like

1:15

a list of

1:16

highly successful titans in

1:18

a variety of industries. They all have

1:20

ADHD. But you don't

1:23

hear much about that now, do you? You know

1:25

what else you don't hear about? Are the 43% of

1:27

people with ADHD who

1:30

are in excellent mental health. Why

1:33

aren't we talking about them and what

1:35

they're doing right? I'm your host, Tracy Adzuka,

1:38

and that's exactly what we do

1:40

here. I'm a lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong

1:43

student, and now

1:45

the author of my new book, ADHD

1:47

for Smartass Women. I'm

1:49

also a certified ADHD coach and

1:51

the creator of Your ADHD

1:53

Brain is A-OK, a patented system

1:56

for the brain.

1:59

that helps ADHD women just

2:02

like you get unstuck and fall

2:04

in love with their brilliant brains.

2:07

Here, we embrace our too muchness

2:09

and we focus on our strength. My

2:12

guests and I credit our ADHD

2:14

for some of our greatest gifts. And

2:17

to those who still think they're too much, too

2:20

impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized,

2:23

I say no one ever made a difference

2:25

by being too little.

2:27

Hello,

2:32

hello, hello. I'm your host, Tracy

2:34

M. Kruka. Thank you so much for joining

2:36

me here for episode number 253 of ADHD for

2:38

Smartass Women. Please

2:44

subscribe to this podcast and our newsletter

2:46

over at ADHDforsmartwomen.com.

2:49

We can't use the film app. Apparently,

2:51

the browsers don't like

2:53

it. And so, well,

2:56

we can't use it there. But as you probably

2:58

can tell, we have a new URL

3:01

instead of Tracy on Suka.com. We're going

3:03

to keep both of them, but it's a long story.

3:05

Anyway, my purpose is always

3:07

to show you who you are and then inspire

3:09

you to be it. And in the thousands of ADHD women

3:11

that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've

3:14

never met a one that wasn't truly

3:16

brilliant at something, not one. And

3:18

so, of course, I am just delighted

3:21

to introduce you to Kaylin Johnson. You

3:23

may recognize her name. I'll

3:26

tell you why a little bit later. Kaylin

3:28

Johnson is a healthcare provider,

3:30

patient advocate, and entrepreneur. She

3:33

shows high-achieving, neurodivergent,

3:35

and hypermobile individuals how

3:37

to unmask their health and feel

3:39

their best through whole-person care.

3:42

Utilizing knowledge gained from her training

3:44

as a clinical

3:45

pharmacist,

3:46

functional medicine wellness coach, and

3:49

healthcare advocate, she bridges the gap

3:51

between mental and physical health through her professional

3:54

and personal experience. Kaylin

3:56

lives her life as a queer, ADHD,

3:58

and autistic individual. individual with hypermobile

4:01

Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and

4:04

PTSD. She lives in Nebraska

4:06

but with her neuro divergent wife and

4:08

likely neurospicy puppy

4:10

Yoshi. Kaitlyn, did I get all that right?

4:13

You got it all. Wonderful. Me

4:15

in a nutshell. Yeah. So

4:17

I've had the privilege of interviewing Kaitlyn once

4:20

before, several years ago. But

4:22

I still think it's important for our audience to

4:24

know her story so we can connect to her. So

4:26

I'm going to go there again, but probably in

4:29

a little bit more truncated version. So

4:31

can you just give us, oh, I don't know, you

4:33

know, the two minute ADHD

4:36

diagnosis story since we always start.

4:39

Yeah, 100%. So nailing

4:41

this down, it was a, it

4:43

was a very trying time

4:46

in a lot of ways in my life, I would have

4:48

been about gosh, my early

4:51

30s and everything just kind of hit the fan,

4:53

both in my mental and physical

4:56

health. And I didn't really understand why.

4:58

And it was really the physical component that drove

5:00

me to seek out help. I

5:03

was starting to have issues with like,

5:06

my vision issues with focusing brain

5:08

fog like I had never had before. And

5:10

it was right around the start of COVID

5:13

that it really then just kind of

5:15

was one more stressor

5:17

that my body and what I realized

5:19

later, the coping skills I come up with for ADHD

5:22

just couldn't cut it anymore.

5:24

So that

5:25

help went the

5:28

kind of not uncommon,

5:30

but very unpleasant route of first being

5:32

told this is just anxiety, then

5:35

going to the route of like, this is your

5:37

personality, but even

5:40

playing around with borderline that at the time.

5:42

And I was like, okay, none of this adds up. None

5:45

of this makes sense. Kept

5:47

seeking out more help ended up with the therapist

5:49

that I'm with now. And she right away

5:51

within the first like two months of us need

5:53

together, she was like, I think you have ADHD. And

5:57

my jaw hit the floor. She still remembers that

5:59

still tells me. And she said,

6:01

go. Yeah.

6:03

And if you were a pharmacist, I

6:05

was. Yep. I was a pharmacist.

6:08

Sure. Doling out stimulant

6:10

medication and other medication for ADHD. And

6:13

it never once dawned on you. Not

6:16

even one time. Like not even minutely.

6:19

Like completely. I always been, I

6:21

worked in academia at the time

6:23

too. Straight out of the pharmacy school and then residency,

6:26

I went straight into academia. So I'm teaching students,

6:28

working with students every day and then also

6:30

providing healthcare. And

6:33

yes, we were not taught

6:35

anything, but that very kind

6:38

of straight algorithm of,

6:40

you know, how you as a provider

6:43

experienced the person with ADHD,

6:45

which means then the symptoms need to

6:47

be very outward and mine

6:50

were very inward. So I

6:52

didn't really know that that

6:54

was a possibility until

6:56

I was diagnosed myself. So

6:58

once you knew it was ADHD and you had

7:00

the Benin Benin hindsight, what are some

7:02

of the symptoms that you had always wondered

7:04

about? Maybe from the time you were a child that

7:07

we now recognize, oh, that was ADHD. I

7:11

think the main one that always

7:13

stood out to me was that my brain

7:15

was never quiet. I was always

7:18

thinking, always going. It

7:20

ended up being both kind of a blessing

7:22

and a curse for me. I still remember

7:24

one time sitting in the car and

7:27

I was picking apart different

7:29

nuances of some movie

7:32

that we'd seen around, honestly, it was different

7:34

things with like misogyny and like feminism. And

7:36

I was probably like 14 or 15 at the time. And

7:39

my mom looks over and goes, Caitlin, don't you ever

7:41

get tired of thinking? And I was like, yeah,

7:44

I do, but I don't, didn't know there

7:46

was an alternative.

7:48

So

7:49

that was a big part for me. Otherwise

7:52

it was confusing because

7:54

I was one of those ADHDers

7:57

that developed a lot of coping mechanisms

7:59

that looking back could look a lot like

8:01

OCD to keep my

8:04

ADHD in check. I was extremely

8:07

overregulated. I knew that

8:09

when I got home from school that if

8:12

I didn't do my homework right away, that

8:14

it would take such an effort for

8:16

me to do it that

8:18

I would like neurotically like come home, don't

8:21

even talk to me. I'm going to sit down and I'm

8:23

going to like power this out, power through, power

8:25

through with pretty much how I lived life. Hence

8:28

why I've worked out pretty hardcore.

8:30

So it was this runway. I can't

8:32

help but relate to that. And if you stop,

8:35

you won't be able to start up again. So you just got

8:37

to take up and down the runway.

8:39

Yes, yes, that exactly.

8:42

And my sister was more of the, I

8:44

guess, kind of more

8:46

hyperactive presenting ADHD. So it

8:48

was like, Oh, no, no, she's like the ADHD one. Kaylin's

8:51

like the perfectionist, like she

8:53

just always gets things done. Like there's no

8:55

way there's ADHD in there. Yet

8:58

it was just a difference in how we each

9:00

coped with ADHD. We both had. You

9:03

are intense and you were driven, but all you have to

9:05

do is listen half as you speak.

9:09

It's

9:12

a Ferrari, right? Like once we turn

9:14

it on, we're going. If I watch you and

9:16

I listen to you speak, I would say you're

9:18

combined type. Are you combined type? Yes.

9:21

Yes. It was just more of this. What

9:24

you said was so classic. Wait,

9:27

don't you ever get tired of thinking?

9:29

And I have heard that said to

9:31

girls, especially, like

9:34

more often than I can count. And it never

9:36

dawned on me that that is like the perfect

9:38

comment, right? You kind

9:40

of look for me to, okay, when else was going

9:43

on here? Yes. Exactly.

9:45

And then, you know, it's one thing that I

9:48

see, especially in girls, or I worked specifically

9:50

with a lot of high achieving, self-described

9:52

high achieving neurodivergent people,

9:55

ADHD years, especially. And

9:58

it's one of those things where if you are not

10:00

a bother to people, then

10:02

why would we even look

10:04

at ADHD or look at like

10:07

diagnosing or you know, like discovering

10:10

who you are? Look, you're doing just fine.

10:13

I had somebody tell me that the other day even, actually,

10:15

honestly, my wife and I are trying to

10:17

have a baby right now. And

10:19

my provider was like, Oh, you

10:21

may not need, you know, any medications,

10:24

it looks like you're doing great in

10:26

life. And even in that moment,

10:28

like it started to bubble up within me. And I was like, Oh, it's

10:30

the masking, she sees the

10:32

mask, like, and that's still

10:35

so hard to take down. And so many ways. Well,

10:37

you said if you're not a bother, you're

10:39

even, you're even like less

10:41

than a bother, you are a benefit,

10:44

right? We relate

10:46

to this, this intense,

10:49

driven go, go, go, hyperactivity.

10:54

Exactly. Hyperactivity also going on in your brain.

10:57

But I think, and you tell me, I think

10:59

we are so externally go,

11:02

go, go hyperactive, because

11:05

then we don't have to deal with the internal

11:06

hyperactivity.

11:08

I think very much so. I think it's kind of a

11:10

way to channel that or to kind

11:12

of like, balance that out. And

11:15

we know too, especially when it comes to things

11:17

that are playful and

11:19

fun, that the brain has a hard time

11:21

being anxious and overthinking at

11:24

the same time, it's doing something that's playful

11:26

and fun, we even know that the brain starts to produce

11:28

more theta waves, which theta is what we produce

11:31

when we're in like front sleeve and we're calm, where

11:33

a lot of ADHD years in that like, hyper

11:36

focus that ruminating kind of area,

11:38

they're going to produce more beta waves, which is

11:41

really a stress response. So I think

11:43

it's also a way, you know, I always say,

11:46

can I curse? Oh, my God.

11:49

Okay. Okay.

11:52

Okay. So one of the things I

11:54

always say to my patients is the body doesn't do things

11:56

for shits and giggles. The body

11:58

always makes sense. We not know why the behavior

12:01

is happening, but it makes sense. So

12:04

for an ADHD-er then who's being very

12:06

productive on that external side, one of the things

12:08

I'm looking for, I'm like, hmm, is that the way of the

12:10

body coping with the fact that the

12:12

brain is stuck in this beta stress

12:14

stance for a lot of the time and it knows

12:17

it needs to get down into theta, this place where it

12:19

can rest and be, the body makes

12:21

sense. It doesn't do things for shits and

12:25

giggles. It makes me think about all of these,

12:27

you know, the aura ring and the whoop

12:29

and the Apple watch, the help,

12:32

whatever. And certain

12:34

things that they look at, and now

12:36

I can't remember what they are, that

12:39

are related to your nervous

12:41

system. And I honestly

12:43

always feel like

12:46

I'm great. But then I look

12:48

at the statistics that come from these, all these

12:51

different gadgets and that might tell you

12:53

something anyway, why do I need this many?

12:55

And

12:56

it's like, no, those aren't good scores.

12:58

And I wish I could remember when this, what the, you

13:01

know, what the score is that I'm even talking

13:03

about. And I can't understand why because

13:05

I feel really good, but it's telling me, no,

13:07

you're stressed.

13:10

And I think I feel good.

13:13

You learn probably right, your body

13:15

learns to adjust where that's where you feel

13:17

good. Well, I just launched a book,

13:19

you know, pre-order the book.

13:21

So what do I expect? But it's just, you

13:23

know,

13:24

I've been so good at my sleep. That

13:27

ever since, honestly, ever since my mom passed

13:29

away in the summer, my sleep has gone,

13:31

you know, it's bad again. And so I'm

13:34

going to do a training on sleep because then

13:37

I know I have to go back to, you know, when

13:39

I know words. So that's really

13:41

interesting to me that even though it

13:43

could feel good because it feels familiar,

13:47

what your body is sending, or telling

13:49

you based on all this crap,

13:51

right, is that

13:53

it's not good, right? You're actually

13:56

stressed.

13:57

You just nailed why I am

13:59

so powerful. about the nervous system and talking

14:01

about this with ADHDers because that

14:04

is exactly it is a it is the key understanding

14:07

to having an ADHDer be well

14:10

and be resilient and we don't even

14:12

realize that so much

14:15

of how we live our life is actually

14:17

stressing our body out and just because

14:19

our mind has decided I'm okay with

14:22

this I'm you know cool with it that the body

14:24

and the mind really do have sometimes different

14:26

experiences of an event so

14:29

I would think of it kind of like if a cat scratches

14:31

you your brain might first be

14:33

like oh like f that cat

14:36

and then it might be like oh wait I

14:38

stepped on its tail not a big deal not

14:40

gonna worry about it but the body is still gonna be

14:42

like no no I got I got scratched like

14:45

I don't I don't like this I'm still gonna pull away

14:47

every time that that happens so even

14:50

if your brain's like no no I can like hyper

14:52

focus and push through to get this paper done that

14:54

doesn't still mean that your body doesn't pay

14:57

a price for that

14:59

yeah and me I

15:01

just know when my sleep is off you

15:03

know literally decades Caitlin

15:06

I have been fighting this I

15:08

don't need sleep this is a waste of life there's

15:10

so much to do and blah blah blah

15:12

but when I don't get enough

15:14

sleep

15:16

yes I can function just fine like

15:18

I feel fine you

15:20

know I just know that I'm

15:22

not right that the say

15:25

so important especially when what

15:27

that the

15:29

your lifespan is directly proportional

15:31

to the quantity and quality of REM

15:33

sleep you get gosh when I go about that's actually

15:35

when I started to change my ways yeah

15:39

so okay so the last time

15:41

wait before before we go there I want to wrap up on

15:43

that on the story as far as some

15:47

I'd love to know what has changed since

15:49

you were diagnosed

15:51

my entire life I

15:53

mean completely you know

15:57

to external people in my life

15:59

it may not look

16:00

as

16:01

different, but from the internal state,

16:04

absolutely massive. I really realized

16:06

how much I was living into

16:08

an idea of who I thought

16:10

I was, but this gave me the

16:12

context to understand who I actually

16:15

was. And really recognizing

16:17

that from the time I was tiny, even

16:19

though I knew who I was, the

16:22

messages that I got of like, Kayla, no,

16:24

like your shirt's not itchy, you're fine, fuck it

16:26

up and go to school. Or Kayla, no, you don't need to

16:28

get up and do that right now or don't ask that

16:30

question right now. Like that was 10

16:33

minutes ago where my brain just finally made that connection.

16:37

All those things meant that

16:40

I had built a life based off of

16:42

an idea of who everyone else told me I

16:44

was, but none of it was based off of who

16:47

I actually was. So I really felt like

16:49

I was an infant in

16:52

curating a life that was really fit

16:54

for me again, which was both

16:57

daunting and a grief process,

16:59

but then also really exciting to get

17:02

to kind of, I feel like I'm an artist

17:05

in my own life now and

17:07

through all the senses. And it's so,

17:10

yes, my life is completely

17:12

different than what it was before.

17:14

And in a very good way,

17:15

in the absolute best

17:18

way. The grass is not only greener,

17:20

it is a pasture and it is wonderful

17:23

to live a life that is actually

17:26

aligned with who

17:28

you are, your brain, your body, every

17:30

step of the way. It's brilliant.

17:32

So I think

17:34

since the last time we spoke, I don't

17:36

remember a diagnosis of

17:38

autism and Ehlers-Danlos syndrome.

17:41

Is that true? Yeah, so I

17:43

believe that the last time we spoke, I

17:45

believe I had the autism,

17:47

but I think it was pretty new. And

17:50

then I think you're correct. I

17:52

don't think I had the Ehlers-Danlos at the time.

17:55

So that came last summer,

17:57

that's when that diagnosis came. Okay,

18:00

let's start with autism. Yeah. What

18:03

does that mean? How does that... You

18:06

always use

18:06

the term spicy. I remember that about you. What

18:09

does that add to the ADHD?

18:12

You know, it adds quite a bit of spice. The funny

18:14

thing is the autistic side,

18:16

for whatever reason, that one didn't

18:18

surprise me. That only surprised me when

18:20

my providers saw it in me because

18:23

I knew that I was good hiding

18:25

it. I knew that people didn't know. That,

18:28

though, I had started to say that I

18:30

felt like I was autistic when I was probably about 13, 14.

18:34

The reason for that was because of

18:36

the intense sensory sensitivities

18:39

I had. I correlated that

18:41

with autism. Now, knowing sensory

18:43

processing differences can be for

18:45

more than just autism. That

18:48

though was one of the core features that I definitely

18:51

had. Sound, touch, especially,

18:55

were huge for me.

18:56

The other, though, piece of that was

18:59

my really intense,

19:02

I guess, obsession with logic, that

19:05

everything is garnered by logic.

19:08

There's always a classic story that

19:10

my mom tells when we were in the grocery

19:12

store and I was four. We were walking

19:15

along a shopping cart. I was walking at the

19:17

very front of the shopping cart and she goes, Kaylin,

19:20

stand on the side of the shopping cart. I

19:22

just kept walking and she was like, Kaylin, stand on the side

19:24

of the shopping cart. I was like, I am on one of the

19:27

sides of the shopping cart. It was one

19:29

of the sides. Yeah. Well,

19:33

right? And some lady stopped her and

19:35

was like, she's going to be a lawyer. It

19:37

wasn't. But

19:41

even then, it was like, I couldn't make

19:43

sense of somebody else's context

19:46

of directions because

19:48

my context for it always was so

19:51

logical, especially around the linguistics

19:53

that were used. There were a lot of

19:55

things that I misunderstood,

19:58

didn't understand the growing up. like teachers,

20:00

directions, things like that, that weren't

20:03

necessarily me not being focused,

20:06

but me very much needing to understand

20:08

each exact word of what they

20:10

said and needing very clear

20:13

logical explanations for what

20:15

was happening. Which might be the exact

20:17

opposite of ADHD, right?

20:19

Yeah, exactly. I

20:24

wonder, oh my gosh, okay, this is

20:26

another connection. I've thought about this for

20:28

a while. Then it's also

20:32

might be responsible for, and

20:35

I can't remember the exact words you use

20:38

because brain,

20:39

but my impression was that

20:42

this kind of go, go, go,

20:44

very specific, don't

20:47

rest. What am I trying to say?

20:49

I can't even remember where it went, but that that is

20:51

also combined with it because,

20:54

you

20:55

know, I don't have the sensory stuff, but

20:59

I do, but it's almost like we

21:01

care about what we care about, right?

21:03

So yes,

21:05

real loud noises, like you will never

21:07

find me in a bar or like concerts

21:10

or I've never cared about that kind

21:12

of stuff. And I don't, it's not

21:14

pleasant for me. Yeah. Also

21:16

like visual things are really important. Like

21:18

my surroundings have to be really pretty,

21:20

you know,

21:21

gardens, flowers, that. So

21:23

there are, and that is part of sensory,

21:26

right? So, you know,

21:28

but to the point of like, it's, it's

21:30

weird how much I care about these things.

21:32

Yeah. And so

21:34

I, and I, for a while, because

21:37

there's definitely autism in my family. And for

21:39

a while I said, I wonder,

21:42

but then the logical part is

21:44

probably, yeah, I'm

21:46

highly intuitive,

21:49

much more intuitive than I am, you know, logical.

21:52

But again, I almost feel like

21:54

this is all one part of a big spectrum

21:57

and we have some

21:58

pieces, right? And it's however.

21:59

it all comes together for you.

22:03

The biggest part where the symptoms are, that's kind

22:05

of the label that you get. Exactly.

22:08

And I think it's also basically what you were kind of

22:10

explaining was it's also all how

22:12

you... Oh, I know. Yeah.

22:16

All how you... Yeah, and I hate to

22:18

get the words out. It's

22:20

like it is based on how you perceive that

22:22

because, you know, even the fact

22:25

of me like really being a very logical

22:27

person, people are always really surprised

22:30

though, by the way that I practice being

22:32

a clinical pharmacist and how much I do

22:34

talk about those intuition and teresumption.

22:37

I find though also that I am a very intuitive

22:40

person, but my intuition feels very logical.

22:43

So it is logical for me to follow that

22:45

gut feeling even if I can't quite explain

22:47

why yet. And so

22:49

I think there's also again,

22:52

there's a lot of crossover in

22:56

a wider definition and how we really

22:58

define logical structured

23:00

thinking and how we define sensory

23:04

sensitivities or sensory preferences

23:07

that, like you said, I think there's way more crossover

23:09

than we really even know

23:11

yet.

23:12

Yeah.

23:13

I don't know. There's something that sounds so weird, but there's

23:15

something about your energy that I just

23:17

feel really mirrors mine.

23:20

Yeah. So

23:22

anyway, I guess what I'm

23:24

trying to say is you make me think again,

23:26

well, maybe there is

23:31

some autism because there's literally like autism

23:33

all over my family. Yeah.

23:36

And ADHD too.

23:38

Okay. So Ehlers-Danlos

23:40

syndrome. Tell us what that is. And

23:43

okay, let's

23:44

tell us. I'm not going to ask you three questions

23:46

at one time. You're fine. So

23:49

yeah. So it is a group

23:51

of connective tissue disorders that are all

23:53

genetically inherited and there's 13 different

23:56

kinds. 12 out of the 13, we

23:59

know the genetic

23:59

marker for. So you can get a genetic

24:03

report done to see if you have one of those 12 to

24:06

13 of the 13 kinds. There is one that

24:08

we don't know the genetic marker for yet.

24:10

It also tends to be the most common and

24:12

the most common one that is found within the ADHD

24:15

population, which is hypermobility,

24:17

L.A. Stanlow syndrome, or sometimes

24:19

some people are even diagnosed with hypermobility

24:22

spectrum disorder. But they basically

24:24

describe a connective tissue

24:27

difference in the body where

24:29

it's basically, I always think of it

24:32

as being not as tight anywhere you

24:34

have connective tissue. It's kind of loose, it's floppy,

24:36

but that leads to a lot

24:38

of issues throughout the body, including

24:41

secondary diagnoses are really common of ADHD

24:45

and both autism sensory processing

24:47

differences are really common in HDS,

24:50

which is the acronym for hypermobile

24:52

ill or Stanlow syndrome. And

24:55

as well, so one of the most interesting

24:57

things I find is with my ADHD years

24:59

who have HDS, one of the things I always

25:01

really have to look out for is are

25:04

those ADHD symptoms thinking

25:07

or are we looking at dopamine as

25:09

the cause there, which is generally like what we're thinking

25:11

of with executive functioning differences. But

25:14

with the HDS patient, because

25:16

they have those differences

25:17

in connective tissue, one of the classic

25:19

things they struggle with then is blood

25:21

perfusion. So their

25:23

body has a hard time working

25:25

against gravity when they've got these loosey goosey veins

25:27

and arteries to get blood up to their head.

25:30

So if you are sitting up in

25:33

class as a student with a chair that's cutting

25:35

into the back of your legs, and all

25:37

the blood flow is sinking to your

25:40

legs, the bottom part of your body, and

25:42

your body is really struggling to get blood

25:44

up to your brain, what is it going to look like?

25:46

It's going to look like you can't focus, it's going to look like

25:49

you can't pay attention, it's going to look like your body

25:51

wants to get up and move because if we are moving

25:53

that our blood is pumping to get

25:55

blood up to our head. So I'm always

25:57

looking at are we dealing with the blood perfusion issue? Are

26:00

we dealing with the dopamine issue or for most of them? It's

26:02

both. Oh My gosh, so

26:04

they get the double whammy. Yep, and then

26:07

they go into perimenopause or pregnancy

26:09

and they get hot And

26:11

then most of them are like misdiagnosed and again

26:13

with all of these different issues Whether

26:16

it's thinking then they have a lot of them blood

26:19

pressure issues because again, how does the body

26:21

respond? This is where the nervous system comes back into

26:23

play So when you're sitting there

26:25

in that chair Let's say in school

26:28

and you're trying to focus but you're not getting enough blood

26:30

flow to your brain because you have hypermobility

26:33

Eller-Danlos syndrome your body

26:35

is only way to get that blood flow There

26:38

is by turning on the sympathetic nervous

26:40

system, which is the fight-flight response

26:42

So it increases the heart rate so that

26:44

way the blood will pump harder and faster Well,

26:47

what does that feel like then unexplained anxiety

26:50

unexplained panic feeling

26:52

like you're wired or like bouncing off the walls But

26:54

all of this is because there's this really complex

26:57

thing happening internally for

26:59

that poor little person's body That's just

27:01

trying to get enough blood flow to

27:03

their brain and yet we see the behavior

27:06

and we name the behavior but again the body

27:09

doesn't do things for shifts and giggles and there's

27:11

a whole other plethora

27:13

of Pathophysiology

27:15

that we really have to look at in our ADHD

27:17

years who also have hypermobility

27:20

Wow What do

27:22

your symptoms look like? Yeah,

27:26

so

27:26

the physical symptoms that I

27:28

struggle with the most are

27:30

joint issues So certain joints,

27:32

I have a lot of pain in I've had pain especially my

27:35

wrists since I was a small

27:37

child Also,

27:39

one of the ones that I have is

27:41

it's really common that we will have very Sensitive

27:45

and soft skin. My

27:47

wife would literally always ask me. How are you so soft? I'm

27:49

not trace this off now. I tell her I'm like, oh, it's

27:52

the other stance of the flick Don't

27:55

eat a lotion The

27:57

my skin would also rip so I was

27:59

a dancer which is really, really common because we're usually

28:01

very flexible because the ligaments are made

28:03

of connective tissue. So really,

28:07

you want to find some undiagnosed hypermobile

28:09

people, go to gymnastics studio,

28:12

go to dance studio. You

28:14

know Adele Bridges? Yes.

28:17

So she wrote,

28:19

too flexible to feel good. She

28:22

has a following on Instagram, I think

28:24

you have a million. I mean, I

28:27

don't even know how she does what she does. Yeah,

28:29

right. She is so mostly

28:31

flexible. She's a gal. And

28:34

so that's what it looks like. That's

28:36

exactly what it looks like, especially from the outside.

28:38

Like then from the

28:41

inside version, a lot of what you see then is so

28:44

there's a lot of difficulties then

28:46

in regards to the nervous system and the nervous

28:48

system being able to stabilize

28:51

because it's always really struggling to

28:53

get the pressure to be

28:55

where it needs to be. And there's a

28:57

whole lot of complex pathophysiology that I could go into,

29:00

but I won't right now. I'll spare everyone for the moment.

29:03

But it's the thing then

29:05

that we see when the

29:06

nervous system gets

29:07

off that often and that sympathetic activation

29:10

is turned on, it's a package

29:12

deal. So think again, like

29:14

you're running from a tiger. That's what your base, your

29:16

body, your entire body is basically responding

29:18

as running from a tiger. But this can happen

29:20

for somebody who's hypermobile, just

29:23

as they're standing for a prolonged period of time,

29:25

putting their makeup on. Like that was one of the

29:27

classic symptoms for me. I get super dizzy, feel

29:30

really bad brain fog, feel like I was going to pass out

29:32

when I would stand for even 10 minutes. And

29:35

I was a marathon runner. And I would be like,

29:37

God, like, why do I feel like just awful

29:39

when I standing in the pharmacy? That was a big thing

29:41

too for me. But when

29:44

that happens, so you're a marathoner.

29:46

So when you're running, you don't feel that it's when

29:48

you're just standing. So that's usually

29:50

when it's worth. Now at the same time, I didn't

29:53

know I had a daily stand list when I was running

29:55

a marathon. And I didn't understand

29:58

why I was having all of

30:00

these GI pain issues, all

30:02

of these joint pain issues. I broke my foot. I

30:05

don't run that way anymore because I found

30:07

out that was not necessarily the best thing for my body.

30:10

But because

30:12

I was moving, I at least wasn't having the

30:14

feeling of like I was going to pass out, but it

30:16

was really, really hard on my joints and

30:18

on my gut. And so were it just you and

30:20

that brain just pushing yourself? Come on,

30:23

you can do this. Suck it

30:25

up. That is exactly. I knew how

30:28

to tap in. So that's the thing. When we look at the nervous

30:30

system, when it tops out

30:32

at that highest peak where it's

30:35

going to do basically like a force shutdown,

30:37

where it's kind of that trapped, that

30:40

hopeless, it's honestly where the body is like prepped for

30:42

death and it like forces you to

30:44

rest. I know the drama, but

30:46

that's what that is. But the thing that happens

30:48

up there is we produce endorphins

30:51

then that help block pain. So

30:53

it's also really, really common then that

30:56

people with EDS have a really

30:58

high pain tolerance because they

31:00

get themselves up into that. It's

31:02

called dorsal vagal area

31:05

there where you basically don't

31:07

feel pain as much. I was so good at that,

31:10

that I made a wonderful athlete

31:12

and could totally kick ass in sports. But

31:14

that was really because I had trained

31:17

my body so well to just go up into

31:19

this

31:20

prepped for death state and could

31:23

hold that for an hour and a half while I ran a half

31:25

marathon and then wondered why my

31:27

body had so many problems after. Wow,

31:29

here we are.

31:30

So you don't run marathons anymore. Nope,

31:33

I don't.

31:34

I do not.

31:35

And honestly, my wife's

31:37

a personal trainer and

31:39

we actually both were on the rowing

31:41

team in college together. It's actually how we met.

31:44

So both athletics are a

31:47

big part of our life and we're a big part

31:49

of our growing up. That

31:51

was actually probably the first place that I really

31:53

started testing out how I really

31:56

wanted to engage with

31:58

my

31:58

nervous system in

31:59

living my life as somebody with ADHD,

32:02

autism, and HTTPS, and

32:04

really started paying attention

32:07

to how I felt in every moment

32:09

and trying to find this nuance of being

32:12

comfortably uncomfortable instead of being

32:15

uncomfortably uncomfortable. Because

32:17

I only knew that other, I

32:20

didn't know that there was more of a

32:22

choice where I could stop

32:25

and that it was okay to feel

32:27

good. That was almost foreign to

32:29

me to do something and

32:32

feel good doing it.

32:36

I was just thinking about my whole disjointed,

32:38

like what I was trying to explain, and

32:40

I'm going on a tangent here, just so you know.

32:42

Please. What I was trying to explain

32:45

just now as far as ADHD

32:48

versus autism,

32:50

and I think what it is,

32:51

is it's the

32:53

extreme hyper focus. So

32:56

there's hyper focus, but then it's almost

32:58

like when autism is involved, it's

33:00

even more hyper focused than that. And

33:03

so I think for a lot of us, women

33:05

with

33:05

ADHD, men too, that we

33:07

talk to women.

33:08

It can also show up in

33:10

how we run businesses and the

33:12

drivenness and that, do you know what

33:14

I'm saying? I'm

33:17

sorry,

33:17

I'm coming back to this, but I wouldn't be

33:19

able to think if I couldn't get that out.

33:22

I guess. I think that's

33:25

where I see it the most,

33:27

but it's really fun, right? And

33:29

so the problem is that it's

33:32

so fun and we get so much dopamine

33:35

and just

33:36

personal satisfaction and all

33:37

of that pride that

33:41

we stop listening to our body and it's just

33:43

go, go, go, go, go.

33:45

Yep. However, I also think

33:48

when you have that combination,

33:51

it is easier to

33:53

be classically successful.

33:55

Yes. Yes. So

33:57

you see a lot of entrepreneurs. Yes.

34:02

And I think it's really finding that balance. And the thing I always

34:04

say with my patients

34:06

is that I just want

34:08

you to understand your choice

34:10

point. Because I think a lot of ADHDers

34:13

then are doing

34:15

things still into their adulthood just because

34:17

it's the way that they've done them, but really giving

34:19

them the choice point of, hey, you

34:22

don't have to feel this way. There is another

34:24

option. Now, I'm the first one

34:26

to say there are times where it's like, I know

34:28

I'm going to hyper focus on this thing. And

34:31

it's going to push my body into a

34:33

stress response state, but it's going to allow

34:36

me to really think linearly and methodically and

34:38

to really just power this out and get this done. I

34:40

still choose to do that sometimes. But it's

34:42

a choice, which makes it very, very

34:45

different. And I understand then how

34:47

to balance that choice where if I'm going to choose

34:49

to do that, that's a stress around my body. Okay,

34:52

maybe I'm not going to go hang out

34:54

outside in the 90 degree weather that day, because

34:56

it's also a stressor around my body. Maybe I'm

34:58

not going to force my brain to think like a

35:00

neurotypical and some other thing that I'm going

35:03

to do today. Like I'm going to balance out

35:05

the stressors and really understand that

35:07

just because it's how everybody else did it when

35:09

we're kind of like, why is this so hard for me? Because

35:12

it's a demand, because it's a stressor and

35:14

really understanding then so you have the choice

35:17

in how you live your life.

35:19

Okay, so I guess we should go

35:21

there now. So it is a neurobiological

35:24

condition. So for instance, in

35:26

the brain and the nervous system, right? Yeah,

35:29

emotion isn't even discussed in the DSM

35:32

five criteria, right for ADHD.

35:34

Yet, so many women

35:37

with ADHD will say that emotional

35:39

dysregulation is probably the symptom that

35:41

they struggle with the mocks. Yeah. And so

35:44

this is why I asked you to come back because

35:46

the nervous system, right? A strong

35:49

nervous system is important to a healthy,

35:51

happy

35:51

ADHD.

35:52

So where do we start? Can you

35:55

just kind of explain the basics? And I know you've

35:57

kind of touched on sympathetic or

35:59

comparison.

35:59

sympathetic, but get it down to the base

36:02

level with someone who's never heard those

36:03

terms before. Yes, let's let's

36:05

start from the get go. So

36:07

when we're talking about the nervous system, in

36:10

the way that we're talking about it, specifically, it's the autonomic

36:12

nervous system, which is a component

36:15

of our entire peripheral nervous system,

36:17

which includes the parasympathetic

36:19

and the sympathetic. But overall, the autonomic

36:22

nervous system regulates all

36:24

the involuntary physiologic processes

36:26

of the body. So breathing, digesting,

36:30

how your liver works, your

36:32

heart, like it's everything that

36:34

you're not having to think about to keep your body

36:37

going is what the nervous system controls. So

36:39

it's pretty important. It's kind of what

36:42

kind of the backbone of our organism

36:44

walking around here. So we've got

36:46

two main parts, though, that kind

36:48

of share time and flip back and

36:50

forth that help to regulate

36:53

our nervous system, depending on what's happening

36:55

in the environment around us. So we've

36:58

got the parasympathetic nervous system,

37:00

which also is known as our rest

37:02

and digest. So when we

37:04

are in a parasympathetic state,

37:07

it's what operates all of the life

37:09

sustaining processes for us during

37:11

times that we feel safe and

37:13

relaxed. So when

37:15

you're you can think about parasympathetic, it's,

37:18

you know, some of the physical things that we'll

37:20

see is it stimulates salivation,

37:23

the pupils are constricted, because we're not having to look

37:25

for danger, the heart rate decreases,

37:29

digestion is simulated, I always think about

37:32

a group of lions, and how the alpha

37:35

will yawn, and then all the other lions

37:37

yawn, what that is doing, it's basically

37:40

the nervous systems communicating to each other. We

37:42

do that through though, right? I know, right?

37:44

Exactly. Our nervous systems do it too.

37:49

And that's a way for me saying, hey, I'm

37:51

safe, you're safe, we're safe, we can all chill

37:54

right now and just digest and

37:56

be well. So the

37:59

opposite of that, though, is when our sympathetic

38:01

nervous system gets activated, which is

38:03

our fight, flight and freeze response.

38:06

So it's what operates all those life

38:08

sustaining processes when we are in times of danger

38:11

or in times of stressful situation.

38:14

So think about mob mentality. If

38:16

you are like in a grocery store

38:19

and people start going sprinting by you, you

38:21

may have no, oh, like

38:24

the mafia mob. I

38:27

mean, the same thing, right?

38:31

I think there's probably a lot of sympathetic activation

38:34

going on there also, but

38:36

never get out of it. Yeah.

38:39

But this is basically a human

38:41

wiring. So that way, like you

38:44

do

38:44

join up with the group because if we were

38:46

like living back in the day and you're like living

38:48

in the forest and, you know, Joe

38:50

goes running by and you don't hear

38:52

the tiger, you want to start running to your

38:54

nervous system wants to pull wants to do that

38:56

thing. It's so like humans

38:59

don't survive alone. They've survived in groups. So

39:01

our nervous systems are literally connected and literally

39:03

talk to each other. It's so cool. I

39:05

love it. But the

39:07

sympathetic nervous system, you

39:10

know, it's stimulated. It can also

39:12

be simulated when your brain or your muscles

39:14

aren't receiving adequate oxygen

39:16

or blood flow, such as when you have

39:19

blood pooling or venous laxity, or even

39:21

things like dehydration, which anybody

39:23

can experience, but people with EDS

39:26

or even people with ADHD who

39:28

sometimes forget to drink. That would be

39:30

me sometimes as well. Dehydration

39:32

can be more common, which will activate

39:35

our sympathetic nervous system again. And it's

39:38

so interesting because

39:41

we think that all of this stuff that

39:43

we are doing is by choice.

39:46

Nope. But it's not right.

39:48

So is it appropriate? You

39:50

know, when you think of autonomic nervous system

39:52

that it's just automatic.

39:54

Yeah.

39:55

Okay. You know, I always wear

39:58

a slave to our biology. up.

40:00

How is this related to ADHD?

40:03

Yeah, so one of the

40:05

most important things to know

40:08

around this is that when blood flow

40:10

is diverted, whether you're in parasympathetic

40:13

or sympathetic, it's diverted away

40:15

or towards the organs that are going to be most

40:17

important to it. So the

40:20

way I see this play out most often

40:22

for my ADHD years, and especially with that emotional

40:25

dysregulation or regulation part of it,

40:27

is really helping them recognize when their

40:30

body is in these fight or flight

40:32

states. And also, it can really

40:34

help take away some of that shame and

40:36

guilt for why am I this way? Why am I

40:38

responding this way? When a lot

40:40

of times it's like, well, your nervous system is

40:43

activated, you don't have another choice.

40:45

So one of the main places when

40:47

we undergo nervous system activation, that blood

40:50

flow is pulled away from this from our prefrontal

40:52

cortex. And that's that big outside

40:54

part of our brain that controls our

40:56

values, our morals, logic,

40:59

decision making. So blood flow

41:02

is diverted away from there. Because if you're founding from a

41:04

tiger, your brain's like, we don't need to care

41:06

about values, you see those hundred babies in front of

41:08

us, we're going to run right over them and not care because

41:10

we just let this organism to survive. Right,

41:13

right. That's what's happening

41:15

in your brain at that moment. So more blood

41:17

flow is going to your amygdala. And the amygdala

41:20

is what controls that fear center. So

41:23

the only thing you're operating out of

41:25

in that moment is safety

41:27

and survival. That's it. So

41:30

if somebody comes up to you and

41:32

says, hey, why don't you turn this paper in

41:35

on time? Are you just being lazy? It is

41:37

that activates your nervous system

41:39

in that moment, you are not going to be

41:42

able to respond out

41:44

of like that person that who you

41:46

are when you think of like really who you are like Tracy,

41:49

like Tracy's not there. amygdala Tracy's

41:51

there. And she wants to be like, forget

41:54

you, I'm done. I'm not learning another thing here

41:56

in this moment.

41:57

So it's really helping

41:59

understand.

41:59

that like whether it's a physiological

42:02

trigger or an emotional trigger, if that

42:05

sympathetic nervous system is activated, you

42:07

are not able to be that

42:10

person you want to be. So we have to be able to understand

42:12

how to get that back online so that

42:14

we can act within our values

42:17

and also complete tasks then, not

42:19

in a state of constant stress

42:21

and stimulation.

42:23

So if

42:24

impulsivity is a symptom of ADHD,

42:28

would we be more likely

42:31

to be activated,

42:33

right? That we would just go there much quicker than

42:35

say a neurotypical? Yes,

42:38

that is exactly like we can go from zero

42:40

to 100 with that so much quicker.

42:44

That's true for people with autism

42:46

as well. And in so many ways, it's

42:49

a pretty base formula. So I

42:51

don't care who you are if you

42:53

are ADHD or

42:55

not, if your body experiences

42:58

the perception of or actually increasing

43:01

demands, increasing anxiety,

43:03

a reduction in tolerance, or

43:05

loss of control, then your nervous

43:08

system will be activated.

43:09

The thing is, say them again, say them

43:11

again. So the

43:14

increasing demands, increasing

43:16

anxiety, a reduction in tolerance,

43:19

and loss of control. Those four

43:21

things will activate

43:23

the nervous system period. The problem

43:26

is for people with ADHD and autism, because

43:28

our world is not built with us in mind,

43:31

demands, anxiety, reduction in

43:33

tolerance, loss of control is on us almost

43:36

from the moment we wake up in the morning.

43:38

So our window

43:41

for tolerance of extra

43:43

stressors is smaller, but

43:45

that's just because of the system of

43:47

the world we live in. If we lived in

43:49

this alternate universe where the

43:52

world was built for ADHDers, and

43:54

we asked somebody who was neurotypical

43:56

to like, hey, we need you to see full picture right

43:59

now. They They would also be experiencing

44:01

the sequence of procrastination, distraction,

44:04

you know, excuses, like not in

44:06

activation. So it's really a body

44:09

under demands and stress.

44:10

That's what we're seeing.

44:14

Your nervous system is activated.

44:16

And

44:19

what does that feel like so that they know

44:21

this is exactly what's happening

44:22

to me?

44:24

Yes. So

44:26

thinking about it, right? You're just like, Oh, that's just

44:28

so I am. Exactly. And

44:30

that's one of the key things is like helping people

44:33

notice some of those physiological

44:35

responses that are so common. So things

44:38

that we'll see, feeling like you can't get it a deep

44:40

breath. So feeling kind of that shallow

44:42

breathing, tired but wired.

44:45

That's a classic one I see, especially in a lot of my ADHD

44:47

years where you're really exhausted, but you

44:49

feel like you're bouncing off the walls. I always

44:51

call that borrowed energy. That's the norepinephrine

44:54

and cortisol that's being dumped. That

44:56

would help us get away from that tiger in

44:58

that moment, increased heart rate or

45:00

unexplained anxiety like feeling

45:03

like you're kind of panicking, but there's nothing really

45:05

that you notice that is setting that

45:07

off

45:08

easily full

45:09

and digestion issues. That's one that

45:11

actually is only easily. What easily? Yes.

45:14

Yeah. What

45:15

about me?

45:16

Yes. So when

45:19

our nervous system is activated,

45:21

blood flow is also diverted away from

45:23

the gut because if you're running from a tiger,

45:26

the body's like, we don't need to send

45:28

energy to digest food right now. We

45:30

need to use that blood flow elsewhere. So

45:33

when this is why things like IBS

45:36

and GI issues are commonly

45:38

diagnosed in the ADHD and

45:41

autism community, it's nervous system activation.

45:43

So that's what's happening. Blood

45:46

flow is diverted away. So I have a lot

45:48

of times my patients then, even before eating,

45:50

making sure we're doing things that are going

45:52

to calm our nervous system, making sure we're not

45:54

noticing these symptoms at that time, because

45:57

if we are, we're not going to be able to digest.

46:00

So think about an ADHD or who maybe has social

46:02

anxiety, who maybe goes out

46:04

to eat, and then every time after they're

46:06

like, I have bloating, I have pain,

46:08

like I have all of these issues, the

46:10

nervous system activation is really the reason

46:13

behind that. Until we can get them

46:15

into a state where they're not

46:17

feeling activated by that occurrence,

46:19

we can't necessarily hope for those issues

46:22

to improve. And does that become like

46:24

a self-fulfilling prophecy too, right? Every

46:26

time you go down and eat, you're bloated, you don't feel good? Yep.

46:30

Then you have like, oh, it's the food. It's the, yeah. Yep,

46:33

exactly. I have a lot of people then who

46:35

have ARFID, so avoidant restrictive

46:38

food intake disorder, or different

46:40

eating disorders along with that as well, thinking again,

46:42

that it was the food that was causing these issues, where

46:44

a lot of times it is kind of how

46:46

they are having to live this

46:49

highly stressful, highly demanding

46:51

life, not even again recognizing what all

46:53

the stresses and demands are on them. And

46:55

then the physiological repercussions and

46:58

how this again drives a lot

47:00

of our diseases. So I saw that

47:02

recently, that 90%

47:05

of people seeking help in the

47:07

medical community or from a medical health

47:09

provider are seeking help for stress-related

47:12

disorders.

47:13

Well, because it's all blood, right? Yeah, yep,

47:16

exactly. This is the big fall of

47:18

it, 90%. So

47:21

that's why like, I am so passionate

47:23

about the nervous system, because it

47:25

really then is, why we see so

47:27

many more rates of pain-related

47:30

disorders, cardiac

47:33

disorders, like so many more just disease

47:35

states, autoimmune issues with- History

47:38

illnesses, right? Yeah. So far.

47:41

I don't know where it came from. That is my favorite

47:43

type of patient to work with. I always call it being unexplainably

47:46

unwell, where usually

47:48

what I find, if I'm gonna go as far

47:50

upstream as I can, if I can help them

47:52

understand their nervous system and really

47:55

figure out what those triggers are, help them

47:57

come back more in tune with that, they

47:59

can feel- better. We can get them at

48:01

least having an improved quality of life.

48:04

I would assume that

48:07

irritability is also your

48:09

system. Yes,

48:13

that is one of my classic ones to

48:15

have to help people in differentiate

48:18

when they're in hyper focus versus flow state.

48:21

So hyper focus, really

48:24

I'll use that as the term to describe when we are

48:26

in that super focused zone.

48:28

But if anything bothers us, we're going to bite

48:30

its head off. We're not going to

48:33

be able to keep our cool

48:35

shell like, oh my god, if somebody interrupts me, I'm

48:37

going to... Any transition, right? Right.

48:40

Not a go. If I'm on

48:43

the bike in our gym, my wife comes in, asks me

48:45

a question, and I want to like, you know,

48:47

it's about the whooping zone,

48:49

rip my hair out. That's a good sign.

48:52

Whoops. Okay. I'm a little activated

48:53

right now. I'm a little hyper focused versus

48:56

flow state, where

48:58

that's

48:58

when the body really is

49:01

wanting to do something. So it

49:03

is going to... It has the energy.

49:05

It has the motivation to do it without utilizing

49:08

the norepinephrine, the cortisol, these high

49:11

energy dumps to be able to do

49:13

that. But as we said before, that actually

49:15

becomes kind of addictive. And a lot

49:18

of ADHDers just kind of fall into

49:20

that because that's what we're used to. And we

49:22

know and we trust we can get stuff done in

49:25

that state. That state is hurting our body,

49:27

that irritability, feeling easily agitated,

49:30

or to like

49:32

very classic science, but you are sympathetically

49:35

activated.

49:36

You know, Kaitlyn, that is the best

49:39

description of the nervous system

49:41

that I never heard. You've made it so accessible,

49:44

very simple to understand. Brilliant.

49:48

Five years ago, I created

49:50

this podcast to learn with

49:52

you, to learn from you about

49:54

ADHD and how it affects

49:56

women. Guest after guest

49:58

and all the research I've done on this

49:59

solo episodes confirmed what I

50:02

had suspected all along, that

50:04

I needed to change the conversation around

50:07

ADHD because I was certain

50:09

that we were getting it all wrong.

50:11

And I knew that because every single time

50:13

I met another one of you, it confirmed

50:15

again what I say on this podcast every

50:18

episode, that I've never met an ADHD

50:20

woman that wasn't truly brilliant at

50:22

something, not one. And at

50:25

this point, we're talking about thousands of ADHD women.

50:27

So I know I'm right.

50:30

In all of those five years

50:33

of recording over 250 episodes,

50:35

I have not monetized this

50:38

podcast. That means I've absorbed

50:40

all the costs.

50:41

My concern was to do what I thought

50:44

was best for you, my listeners. I

50:46

did not want to distract you.

50:48

Since then, we've had over five and a half

50:50

million downloads. We rank in the top

50:53

one half percent of all podcasts on

50:55

any subject in the world.

50:57

I don't know any podcast with these kinds of

50:59

numbers that hasn't monetized

51:00

by taking on sponsors.

51:03

About two years ago, I started considering sponsors

51:05

because I was approached daily and I was told I was

51:07

a fool for not having them.

51:09

But I haven't been able to find the perfect fit. And

51:12

so I said no time and time

51:14

again, I can't take on a sponsor

51:16

whose product I don't personally use and

51:18

really see value in for our ADHD

51:21

brains. I just can't do it. This

51:23

means I've left a lot of money on the table

51:25

every single year. Money that

51:28

frankly could have defrayed a lot of expenses.

51:30

It is very expensive to record a podcast

51:33

week after week, year after year, pay

51:36

the audio engineer, the podcast producer,

51:38

my graphics people, the VA, all the people

51:41

that make this possible.

51:43

With that in light,

51:45

right now,

51:46

for the first time ever, I had a huge

51:49

favor to ask of you.

51:51

I wrote a book called ADHD for

51:53

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51:55

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51:57

This book was inspired

51:58

by all of you. In fact,

52:00

Many of your stories are in this

52:02

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52:03

It is a distilled version of the most important

52:06

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52:10

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52:11

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52:13

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52:19

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52:21

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52:24

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52:26

if you've ever felt supported by me

52:29

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52:31

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52:33

back or a video back or advice

52:36

from me Then it would mean the

52:38

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52:41

in return by pre-ordering

52:43

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it so important to have your pre-order rather

52:47

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52:50

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52:52

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52:55

by retailers Look if your book

52:57

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52:59

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53:00

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53:03

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53:07

So why is this important? Because

53:09

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53:11

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53:19

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53:21

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53:24

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53:28

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53:35

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53:43

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53:49

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55:08

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55:11

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now

55:15

before you forget.

55:17

I know you. I share your

55:20

brain.

55:21

Thank you. You

55:25

know, okay, your nervous system is activated. What

55:28

can you do to deactivate

55:30

it? That is a

55:32

really, really good question. So once you

55:34

recognize that you're already activated,

55:37

stuff that you want to do, one of

55:39

the things that we just mentioned before,

55:41

we can do the opposite of, which were that is

55:43

decreased demands, decrease anxiety,

55:47

increase tolerance, and regain a sense of

55:49

control. That is one

55:51

of the things that we can do to really help

55:53

limit that. Again, sometimes that

55:55

sounds really simple, but it's a lot easier said

55:57

than done actually in our life and doing so.

56:00

in an applicable way. But sometimes

56:02

we can tag team them. So let's

56:04

say decreasing demands,

56:07

like maybe you need to put laundry

56:09

away and you need to change

56:12

out the litter box and you need to

56:14

do the dishes and you're totally overwhelmed by

56:16

that. That's too many demands. Okay.

56:19

But we want to decrease anxiety, increase

56:21

tolerance, regain a sense of control. Maybe

56:23

we have you say, I'm only going to do

56:25

one of these tasks right now. And two of

56:27

them I could do tomorrow. Maybe

56:30

we're going to have you put headphones on and

56:32

have some music you're going to listen to that

56:34

you really enjoy. That's going to increase

56:36

your tolerance for the activity, even

56:39

if we can't decrease the demands of that one

56:41

exactly. Or for me, I

56:44

will look to demands elsewhere to be like, okay,

56:46

like, I was also going to

56:48

call my mom later

56:51

tonight. Sorry, mom, you're going to get moved to

56:54

another day. Moment.

56:56

So that's one of the things

56:58

we can do to like really help the brain

57:01

to understand kind

57:03

of that we are, there

57:05

was a stress on us at that time. Once

57:09

we are already at that activated point,

57:11

we want to complete the stress response cycle.

57:14

So energy cannot be

57:16

deleted. It can only be transferred. So,

57:20

you know, if you think about if you're in a

57:22

car accident, a car is going 50 miles per

57:24

hour, it hits that car in front of it, it's

57:26

going to knock the next car, it's going to knock the next car, the

57:29

next car until that energy dissipates. If

57:31

you are sympathetically activated, your body is producing

57:34

norepinephrine and cortisol, all these

57:36

components that are going to help your body have this

57:38

intense amount of energy that it needs to use.

57:41

If you don't use it, that's when it

57:43

stays in you and causes wreaks

57:45

havoc on your body like inflammation,

57:47

and all of these then stress

57:50

responses, stress related diseases from not using

57:52

up that energy that was then produced.

57:55

So

57:56

wow, right. Exercise,

57:57

right.

57:59

I know that when we do it, we're

58:02

all stressed out and you exercise and

58:05

you feel so much better. Okay,

58:07

that is so exactly it. Energy

58:09

can't be deleted. It can only

58:12

be transferred.

58:13

Exactly. So what do you need transferred?

58:16

So in this hypothetical, where you

58:18

feel really stressed and anxious,

58:20

clearly activated, you work out

58:23

where's that energy going into the ether?

58:25

Yes, basically. Yeah, like you are

58:27

you are dissipating it like, until like,

58:30

you used it, we can't just be like, energy

58:32

go away, like it needs to be used up so

58:34

that car wouldn't stop until

58:37

like there are breaks or until it hits something

58:39

else, then that energy those transfer

58:42

into that wall into that thing until

58:44

it's just kind of absorbed. And that energy

58:46

is kind of like neutralized, I guess we could

58:48

say is a good word for that. So

58:50

we want to neutralize that energy. So

58:54

after we do that, one of the things we want

58:56

to make sure we do is we want to make sure we process

58:59

what happened. At some point,

59:02

your brain is going to want to

59:04

process what happened. Our hippocampus

59:06

is job is to record

59:09

things that were important to our brain

59:11

and our body. So anything that sympathetically

59:13

activates us, our brain wants to file

59:16

that away and log it and say, well, that

59:18

was a tiger, I would like to remember that.

59:20

So we don't have to do that again. I'm

59:22

going to file that away. That's a lot of filing

59:25

for an ADHD or brain to do if

59:27

we're encountering things all the time

59:29

that are activating our nervous system,

59:32

but the brain's gonna want to process

59:34

it. This is also where dreams come

59:37

in. So we think that dreams are like a really

59:40

kind of primal way. If we're not processing

59:43

things like verbally during the day,

59:45

that our brain makes sense then at

59:47

night while we're sleeping of all the important

59:49

things that happen during our day and try

59:51

to file it away. And when we look at PTSD,

59:54

what a lot of times happens is the brain doesn't have

59:56

a filing system for it. It's struggling to

59:58

make sense of it. It doesn't have a narrative. for it. So

1:00:00

that's where a lot of PTSD treatment is about

1:00:03

helping patients gain that narrative so

1:00:05

that they can process the event so their brain

1:00:07

can make sense of it in a way.

1:00:09

But that's

1:00:11

what's really important.

1:00:13

So period with this, and one of my best examples

1:00:15

where we see this happen all the time

1:00:17

in our society, where it's very normalized,

1:00:20

and we do it all the time is in sports.

1:00:23

So when you're watching a sporting

1:00:25

event, if you're looking at the crowd, you may notice

1:00:28

that, okay, their team's losing,

1:00:29

they're getting really

1:00:31

nervous, they're maybe getting kind of agitated,

1:00:33

they're getting excited, and

1:00:36

that nervous system, you're going to see all the symptoms

1:00:38

of nervous system activation

1:00:41

in the crowd. And then the team scores,

1:00:43

what do they do? They yell, they scream,

1:00:45

they jump, they cheer, they use

1:00:47

up that norepinephrine. And then that

1:00:50

helps the nervous system to deactivate. And

1:00:52

guess what they then do? They go home, and

1:00:54

we have how many channels like ESPN,

1:00:57

Fox Sports, whatnot, that are

1:00:59

all geared towards helping people

1:01:02

group process what happened

1:01:04

and what set off their nervous system.

1:01:08

This is why I don't understand

1:01:10

sports, Kaitlyn. I'm sitting on the dance

1:01:12

team, I know that I'm sitting

1:01:14

or watching this and I'm getting all stressed out.

1:01:16

I can't learn the lesson.

1:01:18

I don't know how to learn out of the world, right? What

1:01:20

else? That's the most important part. So run

1:01:23

out of work, we can't handle it. It's not going

1:01:25

to minister ourselves. I don't

1:01:27

know where he is.

1:01:29

And you see it though, like in

1:01:31

anything too with like, let's say like The Bachelor or The

1:01:33

Bachelorette, they have all these shows or podcasts

1:01:36

afterward of people talking it

1:01:38

out. It's processing. It's processing

1:01:40

the thing that strikes all of us out. So we do

1:01:42

it all the time. We

1:01:44

do it all the time, but

1:01:47

that's why we're able to move on eventually.

1:01:51

That is when you say so all of those

1:01:53

shows after the sports events, that's

1:01:56

what they're doing. They're trying to get back

1:01:58

down. Yep. of

1:02:00

silent, of course, as all slaves to

1:02:02

our biology.

1:02:04

But

1:02:07

that, how do my favorite thing go?

1:02:09

Okay, something happened

1:02:11

and we, I don't

1:02:13

know, we flipped down over something that

1:02:16

really was not that big of a deal because we didn't put

1:02:18

a pause in and we just like nervous

1:02:20

system activation, right? So

1:02:23

how do we go about processing

1:02:25

that so that it doesn't become, well,

1:02:28

how do we process it? So maybe we don't do it

1:02:30

next time or we do it to a lesser extent

1:02:32

next time. Yeah, yeah, so

1:02:34

here's what I usually will tell people to

1:02:36

do. So first, without complete

1:02:39

the stress response cycle, I also want people

1:02:41

to do something that's automatic. I don't want it

1:02:43

always to be like, I'm gonna go to the gym because

1:02:45

maybe it's, I'm gonna go to the gym three hours from

1:02:47

now. It needs to be right in that

1:02:49

moment. So I don't care

1:02:51

if it's you put two of your hands up

1:02:53

against the wall and you push as hard as you can

1:02:56

on it. I promise you won't go through the wall, I'm

1:02:59

not sure enough wall. Sometimes I'll literally, my

1:03:01

patients always balk at me for this, but I'll like get on

1:03:03

the floor and do some pushups or something like

1:03:06

I will, like my wife and I will do your

1:03:08

body. Yes, exactly. My

1:03:11

wife and I will do like this little like, like

1:03:13

little yell and what's curious to

1:03:16

do it in the house. And that's the sign

1:03:18

that, oop, one of us hit our wall with something.

1:03:20

But vocalizing in that way too, is

1:03:23

another way to get out that energy.

1:03:26

And also when you vocalize humming,

1:03:28

singing, chanting, it's why it's existed throughout

1:03:30

history, it vibrates

1:03:33

the neck, which vibrates then and activates

1:03:35

that ventral vagal nerve, which is what controls

1:03:37

our parasympathetic nervous system. So you kind

1:03:40

of get two for two there, you get the energy

1:03:42

out, and then you also stimulate something that's

1:03:44

gonna help relax you. So

1:03:45

you wanna do something in the moment, like move

1:03:48

your body, yell into a pillow, like

1:03:50

saying, I don't care what it is, but you

1:03:52

need to do something in that moment, get that energy

1:03:54

out. So then processing what happened.

1:03:57

This is where for each person,

1:03:59

it may be different.

1:03:59

Like talk about what happened out loud

1:04:02

to yourself. Sometimes I'll record

1:04:04

myself even just talking about like

1:04:06

what my feelings were, what I noticed, what's happening

1:04:08

in my body. What was the experience

1:04:11

like? All of those things are going to

1:04:13

help your brain to spend time with what

1:04:15

it was so it can figure out what

1:04:17

to do with this. What did this mean? Were we actually

1:04:20

really afraid of a tiger? Like are we

1:04:22

afraid of all tigers now? Just certain

1:04:24

tigers. We want to spend

1:04:26

time with it. You can talk to a friend about it.

1:04:28

You can journal about it, whatever

1:04:30

it is, but you want to spend time with it

1:04:32

rather than just like pushing it out of your brain and

1:04:35

thinking, I can just ignore it.

1:04:37

You want to spend time with it. Or this

1:04:40

sleep is a good note for me of

1:04:43

if I'm not sleeping super well, that there's

1:04:45

something my brain is trying to work through.

1:04:47

And maybe I don't know what it is yet, but that's

1:04:50

usually when my sleep ends up interrupted, so I'll

1:04:52

give myself more time during the day

1:04:54

to just sit and to see what

1:04:56

my brain is trying to process. In those moments.

1:04:59

Yeah, really, really

1:05:01

good. So you

1:05:03

mentioned bridging the gap. This is what you

1:05:05

do between mental and physical health, right?

1:05:08

What

1:05:08

you're talking about, frankly, right here. How

1:05:11

do you integrate these aspects into

1:05:13

your approach to wellness and health care?

1:05:16

Yeah, I mean, it pretty much drives

1:05:19

every single part of what

1:05:21

it is that I do. It

1:05:24

really then comes down to the fact

1:05:26

that an understanding

1:05:28

of how every

1:05:31

everything you interact with, how

1:05:34

that really correlates to

1:05:36

the response we see in your nervous

1:05:39

system is what's telling us what

1:05:41

is aligned with you. So it really

1:05:44

ends up being, you know, I always say I don't have

1:05:47

I got this

1:05:48

from my own therapist,

1:05:49

who's a wonderful person. I

1:05:52

don't have the authority to help anyone.

1:05:55

That my goal is to provide help

1:05:56

that is helpful to you. And

1:05:58

you get to name it.

1:05:59

But that means then that the

1:06:02

core piece of ADHD

1:06:04

wellness and resiliency really lies in

1:06:06

you trusting yourself,

1:06:09

trusting your body's response,

1:06:12

trusting what feels good, and trusting

1:06:14

what doesn't feel good. I

1:06:16

have so many people who,

1:06:19

gosh, I had somebody recently who was

1:06:21

really struggling with hypoglycemia or

1:06:24

low blood sugars. And hypoglycemia

1:06:26

is one of the top five dysregulators

1:06:29

of the nervous system. So another

1:06:32

reason that a lot of ADHDers may end

1:06:34

up feeling activated. They're

1:06:37

hungry. They haven't eaten. That's

1:06:39

stressed out the nervous system. It is a stressor. And

1:06:42

we talked about her carrying some nuts around

1:06:44

and she was just going to eat some cashews. She

1:06:46

didn't tell me for about three weeks that she actually

1:06:49

felt terrible eating the cashews. It was actually

1:06:51

setting off some other foods

1:06:53

and the toadies that she had, but she was like, well, you said

1:06:55

it would help me.

1:06:56

So

1:06:59

this is where though that for

1:07:01

an ADHD or so much of this, when we

1:07:03

tie this together, for this to work, the

1:07:06

step one is the fact that nobody

1:07:08

knows your body better than you do. Nobody

1:07:11

knows your mind better than you do. You have

1:07:14

to be able to trust your own discomfort,

1:07:17

to trust your own comfort both

1:07:19

ways. You have to be able to that, like, I

1:07:22

don't know better for you. A book doesn't know

1:07:24

better for you. Your doctor doesn't know better for

1:07:26

you. And that is very opposite in our culture.

1:07:29

And what you probably grew up being

1:07:31

taught as someone with ADHD is that again, know

1:07:33

your context for how you make choices

1:07:35

and how you understand your body is wrong. But

1:07:37

I'm here to tell you, no, it was right. It

1:07:39

was always right for you.

1:07:41

Totally, totally 100%. We

1:07:45

get sucked into this learned helplessness

1:07:47

because from the time, you know, you're a little like you're constantly

1:07:49

told you're wrong or you're made to feel that you're wrong.

1:07:52

While you start, you stop trusting yourself completely.

1:07:54

And of

1:07:55

course you would. That's that's part

1:07:57

of it too. That like, you know, of course.

1:07:59

But it's one of those things that it really

1:08:02

drives people to

1:08:06

really be very clear with what their intention

1:08:09

for living life is, which I find that

1:08:11

that's also very helpful to ADHD years. Again,

1:08:14

we see full picture. So really understanding

1:08:16

your choice point, your values allows

1:08:20

them to really tap into that creative decision

1:08:22

making that they're so good at when they

1:08:24

really understand, this is why I'm doing this.

1:08:27

Like this is a line of my values

1:08:29

or this is aligned with how my body

1:08:31

works, how my brain works. And that really allows

1:08:33

them to then not take on

1:08:36

all of that shame and

1:08:38

guilt and everything that everyone else is trying to put

1:08:40

on them, but really feeling confident

1:08:42

in being themselves.

1:08:45

And anything different that's garnered

1:08:47

to really elicit a response

1:08:50

from others would yield

1:08:52

an expectation exists

1:08:54

to avoid a feared outcome, which

1:08:57

is where I so often see that rejection sensitive

1:08:59

dysphoria or the people pleasing pop

1:09:01

up. And I always remind my patients then

1:09:04

that an expectation is a predetermined

1:09:06

resentment. Okay, hold on.

1:09:08

An expectation

1:09:10

is a predetermined resentment.

1:09:12

Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm

1:09:15

hmm. So if we also are, you

1:09:17

know, this is probably the hardest thing I have with patients

1:09:19

in doing this work is they say, okay,

1:09:22

so you want me to notice my nervous system is activated,

1:09:24

and then you want me to advocate that for

1:09:26

these things that I need to be comfortable

1:09:29

or that my body needs. Well, me

1:09:31

advocating for my needs is actually very

1:09:33

activating. It's extremely

1:09:35

activating for ADHD years.

1:09:38

It's very uncomfortable. And this

1:09:40

is where I always say, okay, we've got a choice

1:09:42

point. So we can either get your nervous system

1:09:44

kind of desensitized to an increase

1:09:48

of distress tolerance to people setting up

1:09:50

stepping on your boundaries to the loss

1:09:52

of control to feeling the weight

1:09:54

of demands, or we can increase your

1:09:56

distress tolerance to telling those people

1:09:58

those places and things. out or

1:10:00

removing yourself from the situation. And so

1:10:04

there's this really hard period

1:10:06

when we first are starting to do this work where

1:10:08

it kind of feels worse before it feels

1:10:11

better, because it's recognizing,

1:10:13

okay, well, one of the reasons I wasn't

1:10:15

making that choice was because that actually brought

1:10:17

me a lot of discomfort and a lot of

1:10:20

activation. But really

1:10:22

looking at though, you know, if we

1:10:24

are being really, really nice to

1:10:26

somebody being really, really loving to them, because

1:10:29

we don't want them to be mad at us when we show up late

1:10:31

for every appointment, that that

1:10:33

is an expectation. And that

1:10:36

if that person then still ends up mad at

1:10:38

us, we end up resenting the fact, well, no, no,

1:10:40

no, I was I was really, really nice to you. Like, why

1:10:42

are they mad at me? I was so nice to them. When

1:10:44

really what we want for the ADHD or

1:10:46

do is to live a life and make the choices

1:10:49

that are aligned with them. And then

1:10:52

allow the other person to respond as they

1:10:54

do and just know if that's how they respond, then

1:10:56

that person was never for you that you didn't

1:10:58

do anything wrong that you there's nothing

1:11:00

wrong with you. You don't need to adjust that

1:11:03

person

1:11:03

just wasn't for you.

1:11:06

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Wonderful.

1:11:09

I have heard so many great things from

1:11:12

our podcast episode of a couple

1:11:14

of years ago. So

1:11:17

it's interesting where I will

1:11:19

if this just happened to me, I just recorded

1:11:21

a podcast, I can't remember who it was with. And

1:11:24

she mentioned that she found the podcast,

1:11:26

and then she found you. And then she ended

1:11:29

up working with you. And then there was a big

1:11:31

full circle, then she's on the podcast, right?

1:11:33

You must

1:11:34

do amazing

1:11:37

work. Thank you.

1:11:40

Thank you. It is it is the

1:11:42

absolute I pinch myself still, like, every

1:11:44

day that I get to do this work that I

1:11:47

get to like, bear witness to

1:11:49

honestly, neurodivergent pain, and

1:11:52

then neurodivergent joy, like, it

1:11:54

is such a true

1:11:57

pleasure and an honor to get to walk

1:11:59

with people

1:12:00

through understanding their bodies and minds

1:12:03

and curating that life that's it for them. Yeah.

1:12:05

And then

1:12:06

knowing the before picture, right? And

1:12:08

seeing the after picture. And for

1:12:10

all literally, it's like a 180. It's

1:12:13

just amazing how quickly it happens,

1:12:15

right? Once we... Oh my gosh.

1:12:18

... share this. Yes. That's the thing too that's so cool

1:12:20

about, again, being a slave to our biology.

1:12:22

Our biology though is either

1:12:24

moving towards pleasure

1:12:27

or moving away from pain. So once

1:12:29

we find the thing that is comfortable

1:12:32

for the body or comfortable for the brain, it's

1:12:34

going to latch on to that quickly. So

1:12:36

if we can get that thing, like that

1:12:39

life can change really quick. The brain's going to be like,

1:12:41

huh, I like this option better. This one

1:12:43

feels good. It's going to log

1:12:45

that one. That's going to build that new neural pathway,

1:12:48

that neuroplasticity where we're

1:12:50

learning new habits. And if it feels

1:12:52

good, we get more blood flow to the area.

1:12:54

We get more energy going there

1:12:56

to really solidify that response.

1:12:59

But I always like to remind people when

1:13:02

you maybe revert back to

1:13:04

what was, you make a choice that like old

1:13:07

Caitlin would have made and just completely ignored her

1:13:09

body, which I literally did

1:13:11

just really recently when we were in Walt Disney World

1:13:14

was like, I'm fine. Let me just push through

1:13:16

and ride all these roller coasters. And I

1:13:19

did not feel well. It was not good. But

1:13:22

yeah, anxious, right?

1:13:26

And I was like that as a small child, like

1:13:28

everyone has loved that. But not

1:13:30

handle it. Nope. It was too much to

1:13:32

ever simulating. But I always remind people

1:13:35

that when we're building these new neural pathways,

1:13:37

these new choices, these new habits, we

1:13:39

can't delete the old ones. They're

1:13:42

always still there. That's that idea

1:13:45

of like, you can't teach an old dog a new trick. No, you can teach it a new

1:13:47

trick, but you can't delete the old tricks.

1:13:49

So there are going to be times where maybe

1:13:51

you taught it now to go to the bathroom at the front door, where

1:13:53

you go to the bathroom at the back door that it's going to still

1:13:55

run to the back door sometime. That neural

1:13:57

pathway still there. you

1:14:00

now another option. So it's not a bad

1:14:02

thing. You didn't do anything wrong if you fell

1:14:04

back into that. And I promise there's gonna be a

1:14:06

time when you're 85 and you're like, God,

1:14:08

why did I just,

1:14:11

you know, totally ignore when somebody like called me

1:14:13

lazy and I was just like, yep, guess I'm lazy. Like, why

1:14:15

did that happen again? I've known that I'm not for 30,

1:14:18

40 years. Okay, well, that pathway had 30

1:14:21

years, four years, 50 years to really gain

1:14:23

traction to really dig in. It's still

1:14:26

there. We're just giving you another

1:14:28

response so that the mark of wellness

1:14:31

for an ADHD year isn't the absence

1:14:33

of these thoughts, isn't the absence of

1:14:35

nervous system activation. It's just

1:14:38

you noticing them and deciding

1:14:41

how you want to respond. Yeah,

1:14:44

we will

1:14:46

figure

1:14:48

out we didn't have any right then. I mean, our

1:14:52

brain could set a mind of its own and went

1:14:54

running off and doing whatever and we couldn't control

1:14:57

it.

1:14:57

Okay.

1:14:59

What's your number one workaround? Oh,

1:15:00

gosh. Okay. So my number one workaround

1:15:03

is something that I mentioned earlier. I really thought

1:15:05

a lot about this, but it really is

1:15:08

believing myself. It is believing

1:15:10

my body. Like, you know, I

1:15:13

don't have to struggle with

1:15:16

my ADHD much at all

1:15:18

when I recognize that I'm not the

1:15:21

problem that the environment

1:15:23

or the expectation of the task

1:15:25

is. So I just think, okay,

1:15:28

me not liking doing this or how I'm doing it isn't

1:15:30

the problem. How can I do this different?

1:15:33

You know, I always think about plants. We

1:15:35

love biodiversity in nature and

1:15:38

we're like, okay, this is fabulous. Look at all the biodiversity

1:15:40

in the rainforest. And if we had two plants

1:15:43

out on our balcony and we put them in the same

1:15:45

water, sunlight and soil, and one of them

1:15:48

started to wilt, we wouldn't say, you're diseased,

1:15:50

you're disordered. There's something wrong with you. You're

1:15:53

lazy. We would say you need something different

1:15:55

to thrive. And we would alter the environment.

1:15:58

We would alter the soil, the water, the sun.

1:15:59

So

1:16:00

that is my number one workaround, remembering

1:16:03

that I'm just a plant and I just

1:16:05

need to give myself what I need to thrive.

1:16:08

And when something doesn't feel right, I

1:16:10

just haven't found that thing

1:16:12

that I need to feel good and doing what I'm doing.

1:16:15

Totally. Totally. So, Kaylin,

1:16:17

are you working on something you want to tell us about? Yeah,

1:16:20

right now, what we're really, really excited about is

1:16:23

my wife and I are actually going to team up and we are going

1:16:25

to start a community of people who are

1:16:27

looking to really heal,

1:16:30

belong and grow together through

1:16:33

this nervous system healing. We're doing

1:16:35

a lot of working with people recovering from burnout,

1:16:37

recovering from long COVID because long COVID,

1:16:39

what we're really seeing is that impacts the nervous

1:16:41

system. Working with people

1:16:44

with autoimmune issues or being unexplainably

1:16:46

unwell. Again, my wife

1:16:47

has multiple sclerosis.

1:16:49

So this is something that's really

1:16:51

close to us as well. So

1:16:53

her and I will be leading that community

1:16:55

and we'll be doing a lot of teaching

1:16:57

on the nervous system, providing a

1:16:59

lot of evidence-based knowledge

1:17:02

and approaches to really being able to heal. But

1:17:04

then also having a community of people who are going to be using a lot of

1:17:06

this language that I talked about today, because that's

1:17:08

hard when you have a family and you're like, oh,

1:17:10

that activated my nervous system. They're like, what are you talking about?

1:17:13

Like I don't know. So

1:17:16

having a community where we've

1:17:18

got the language of diverse

1:17:21

minds, but also the language then

1:17:23

of healing a diverse mind,

1:17:26

especially through the nervous system. Where

1:17:29

do you want to send us? Yes. So go

1:17:31

to my website. So that's KaylaJobson.com. That's

1:17:34

where you're going to find information on working

1:17:36

with me one-on-one and signing up for

1:17:38

our community, which is called Diverse Minds.

1:17:41

The community is going to be launching here before

1:17:43

the end of the year, 2023. If

1:17:46

you want to hear first about

1:17:48

it, go ahead and sign up for my newsletter, which

1:17:50

you can do so on my website. I will send

1:17:52

out information there. Eventually, though,

1:17:54

there will be the link on the website to go ahead

1:17:56

and join up.

1:17:57

If you do want to work with me one-on-one, that's already...

1:17:59

up on my website. You can sign up for a

1:18:02

free initial consult to meet with me to

1:18:04

see if my sort of support

1:18:06

would be something that would feel supportive and helpful to

1:18:08

you. And we can talk about working together. But

1:18:10

that's where you can find me at KaylinJohnson.com.

1:18:14

Wonderful, wonderful. And we'll put this in

1:18:16

the show notes. Thank you again so

1:18:18

much for spending time with us here today.

1:18:20

This was brilliant.

1:18:22

Thank you so much. It was absolutely wonderful.

1:18:24

It's always a pleasure to come and chat

1:18:26

with you and to really

1:18:28

engage with your community. It's one of my favorite

1:18:30

places to be. It's helped me for

1:18:33

sure. And, you know, being

1:18:35

in this place in my life now where everything

1:18:37

feels spectacular, you've got a wonderful community

1:18:40

of people. I do.

1:18:42

I'm so lucky. Thank you so much,

1:18:44

Kaylin.

1:18:45

You're so welcome. So that's what

1:18:47

I have for you for this week. If you like this episode

1:18:50

with Kaylin, please let us know by leaving

1:18:52

a review. Our goal, you know,

1:18:54

it's to change the conversation around ADHD,

1:18:57

helping as many women as we possibly can

1:18:59

learn how their ADHD

1:19:00

brains work so they too

1:19:02

may discover their amazing strengths. As

1:19:04

always, you're listening to ADHD for Smartass

1:19:07

Women. Come join me over at

1:19:09

ADHDforsmartwomen.com.

1:19:11

I'm still getting used to saying that. Thank you

1:19:14

so much for listening. And I'll see you here

1:19:16

next

1:19:16

week. You've

1:19:19

been listening to the ADHD

1:19:21

for Smartass Women podcast. I'm

1:19:24

your host, Tracy Asuka. Join

1:19:26

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1:19:29

where you can find more information on my new

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1:19:33

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1:19:36

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1:19:38

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1:19:41

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