0:01

We're learning a lot more

0:03

about dementia and we're learning

0:06

that dementia in

0:09

many ways is a

0:11

lifestyle disease. So

0:14

it's not that ADHD

0:17

causes dementia directly, it's

0:19

just that the lifestyle

0:21

choices commonly made by

0:23

people with ADHD then

0:26

lead to dementia. Richard

0:33

Branson, Michael Phelps,

0:36

Justin Timberlake, James

0:38

Carvel. Wait a minute, where

0:41

are the women? Greta

0:45

Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra

0:48

McDonald, Simone Biles.

0:52

That sounds like a list of highly

0:54

successful titans in a variety of

0:56

industries. They all have ADHD, but

0:58

you don't hear much about that now, do

1:00

you? You know what else you don't

1:02

hear about? Are the 43%

1:05

of people with ADHD who are

1:07

in excellent mental health. Why

1:10

aren't we talking about them and what they're

1:12

doing right? I'm your

1:14

host, Tracey Adzuka, and that's exactly what

1:16

we do here. I'm a lawyer, not

1:18

a doctor, a lifelong student, and now

1:20

the author of my new book, ADHD

1:23

for Smartass Women.

1:25

I'm also a certified ADHD

1:27

coach and the creator of

1:29

Your ADHD Brain is A-OK,

1:31

a patented system that helps

1:33

ADHD women just like you

1:35

get unstuck and fall in

1:37

love with their brilliant brains.

1:40

Here, we embrace our too muchness

1:42

and we focus on our strengths.

1:44

My guests and I credit our

1:47

ADHD for some of our greatest

1:49

gifts. And to

1:51

those who still think they're too much,

1:53

too impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized,

1:56

I say no one ever made

1:58

a difference by being too. little. Hello,

2:05

I am your host Tracy Otsuka.

2:07

Thank you so much for joining

2:10

me here for episode number 257

2:14

of ADHD for Smartass Women. If

2:17

you've been listening for a bit and

2:19

you've been thinking, ah I wish

2:21

all of the most important information

2:23

from this podcast were in one

2:25

place, I have great news

2:27

for you. I have a brand new

2:30

book out with Harper Collins William Morrow and

2:32

it's called you got it

2:34

ADHD for Smartass Women and it

2:37

is now finally available for

2:39

pre-order. It's a compilation

2:41

of all of our learnings here

2:43

together on this podcast and

2:46

you can pre-order it

2:48

at ADHD for Smart

2:51

women.com/book. Now on

2:54

to the podcast. My

2:56

purpose is always to show you who

2:58

you are and then inspire you to

3:00

be it in the thousands of ADHD

3:02

women that I've had the privilege of

3:04

meeting. I've never met a one that

3:06

wasn't truly brilliant at something, not one.

3:09

And so for all of these reasons and more I

3:12

am just delighted to introduce

3:14

you to Dr. Kathleen Nadeau

3:16

today. Dr. Kathleen

3:18

Nadeau, PhD, has been a thought leader

3:20

in the field of ADHD for many

3:23

decades. The founder and director of the

3:25

Chesapeake Center, one of the largest private

3:27

ADHD specialty clinics in the US. She

3:30

is the author and co-author or co-author

3:32

of 15 books related to

3:35

ADHD and

3:37

the recipient of the Chad Hall of

3:39

Fame Award for her groundbreaking work on

3:42

girls and women with ADHD.

3:44

Currently she devotes her time to

3:47

building the Chesapeake Advanced ADHD Training

3:49

Institute, otherwise known as

3:51

CHADI, what a great acronym, to

3:54

address the significant need for training

3:56

mental health professionals in

3:58

the diagnosis and treatment of complex Dr.

4:01

Nadeau is the author of Still Distracted

4:04

After All These Years, the only book

4:06

focusing on the needs of older adults

4:08

with ADHD. She

4:10

is an active advocate for

4:12

more gender-sensitive diagnostic criteria for

4:15

girls and women with ADHD

4:17

that will address the continuing

4:19

underdiagnoses of girls and women.

4:21

Dr. Kathleen Nadeau is a

4:23

frequent lecturer both nationally and

4:25

internationally. Kathleen, welcome. Did I

4:27

get all of that right? Oh

4:30

my goodness, yes. Thank you very much.

4:32

Well, there's a lot. You have done so much.

4:35

Okay, and I'm going to do something right now.

4:37

I just realized that your book is across the

4:39

room. So I'll be right

4:41

back. So

4:52

fabulous. Okay, I'm back. That

4:55

was so ADHD. That

4:57

was perfect. I know,

4:59

maybe we should keep it in, right? So

5:03

I just want to make sure that our

5:05

listeners know who is gracing

5:08

us with her presence today.

5:10

Dr. Nadeau is a pioneering force for

5:13

women and girls with ADHD, and she's

5:15

been fighting our fight for literally decades.

5:18

And the fact that we're finally really

5:20

talking about ADHD in girls and women

5:22

can be traced back to her groundbreaking and

5:24

influential work. So I just want you

5:26

to know how honored I am to

5:28

have you on this podcast. Well,

5:31

thank you so much. And I

5:33

am so delighted that you've invited me

5:35

on your podcast. I mean, this is

5:38

my mission in life. I am

5:41

the mother of a woman with

5:43

ADHD, the grandmother of two girls,

5:45

the sister of a woman

5:48

with ADHD. I

5:51

have lived this experience, not just

5:53

worked as a professional. So the

5:55

more I can get the word out, the better. Well,

5:58

you're doing that. And unfortunately

6:00

for you, it doesn't matter what your

6:02

level of influence or brilliance is. We

6:05

all have to start at the same place on this podcast.

6:08

And that is about your ADHD diagnosis. So

6:10

could you share that with us? Well,

6:13

let me start with a funny

6:16

story about my ADHD. And

6:18

that is, you mentioned that I

6:20

shared the Chad Hall of Fame

6:22

Award with my friend and co-author

6:24

Pat Quinn for our work

6:27

on women and girls. And this was taking

6:29

place back in the late 90s. So

6:32

of course, we're at the annual

6:34

Chad convention and there's a big

6:37

to-do and we're called up

6:39

to receive our award

6:41

and thank you. And

6:44

in typical ADHD fashion, I had

6:46

written out my remarks and then

6:48

completely lost them or forgot them

6:51

and got up there and started

6:53

my remarks by saying, and guess

6:55

what? I forgot to

6:57

bring my notes with me, which of course

6:59

got a great laugh from the cloud. And

7:03

so I think my

7:05

message to everybody with ADHD

7:08

is that, you

7:11

know, as you read all the things

7:13

I've accomplished in my professional career, and

7:15

yet I think it's so important for

7:18

people to realize I still have ADHD

7:21

and glitches still happen in my

7:23

life. And it's just so important

7:25

to not get down on

7:28

ourselves about those glitches

7:31

and to really understand

7:35

and celebrate the things we're good at. So

7:37

you were asking me, when was

7:40

I first diagnosed with ADHD? And

7:43

the answer to that is I self-diagnosed

7:46

with ADHD. And that

7:48

was after I had been working

7:50

in the field for quite

7:53

a while. And oddly enough,

7:55

I'm an accidental ADHD expert,

7:57

if you will. And

8:00

the reason I say that is I had

8:03

been in a general private practice

8:05

just very much enjoying being a

8:08

psychotherapist for people with a

8:11

whole range of issues. And

8:13

suddenly the public law

8:15

changed requiring that

8:18

schools provide accommodations

8:20

and supports to

8:22

children diagnosed with

8:24

ADHD. And before

8:27

that time a lot of parents wanted

8:29

to avoid the diagnosis. They were worried

8:31

that the only purpose of a diagnosis

8:33

is to put my child on Ritalin.

8:35

That's pretty much all there was in

8:37

those days. And I don't want to

8:39

put my child on Ritalin so why

8:41

get the diagnosis? Then

8:43

this wonderful law comes

8:45

into effect and my phone starts

8:48

ringing off the hook from pediatricians

8:50

saying, do you know how to diagnose

8:52

this? Because we don't.

8:54

I mean it was really, really early

8:57

days. And so

8:59

my practice was flooded with

9:01

referrals for ADHD. I

9:05

had a partner in this

9:07

general practice that had interest

9:09

in background and neurodiversity. And

9:11

we sort of started a sub

9:13

clinic based on those demands.

9:16

But the reason all these many,

9:18

many years later I'm still in

9:20

the field of ADHD and loving

9:22

it has to do with

9:25

understanding the relevance

9:28

it had to my family. I

9:30

mean my daughter was diagnosed with

9:33

ADHD when she was four years

9:35

old by a pediatrician which is

9:37

very unusual in those days. And

9:42

she was on the hyperactive end

9:45

and she was fidgety and her little

9:47

tiny four year old legs were covered

9:49

with bumps and bruises because she was

9:51

always racing around and running into the

9:54

corner of the coffee table or bumping

9:56

into a tree branch if she was

9:58

climbing in the backyard. And

10:00

he just, I hadn't asked him,

10:02

he said, your daughter has ADHD. And

10:06

so you're the clinical psychologist, and

10:08

you had never considered this fact.

10:11

Well, this was, if you think

10:13

about the timing, this

10:16

was in very early days

10:18

when we still believed it

10:20

was a male disorder. And

10:23

I had a brother who

10:26

had ADHD and dyslexia.

10:28

He was your classic

10:31

class clown. I hate school. I can't

10:33

pay attention. I'm going to cause a

10:35

ruckus in the back of the room.

10:38

And very bright guy who

10:40

became a businessman when he grew

10:42

up, but he stopped at high

10:44

school. He hated school. And that

10:46

was my image of ADHD. And

10:49

it was everyone's image of ADHD, pretty

10:51

much at that time. And

10:54

it was only because my little

10:56

daughter was manifesting the

10:58

fidgety. And

11:01

also, klutzy. We

11:03

don't write about that much, but a lot

11:05

of kids with ADHD are very klutzy, and

11:08

they bump into things as they're racing

11:10

through the room. So yes,

11:12

I had not considered it because

11:15

she was bright. She was learning

11:17

to read very early. So I

11:19

had all of the same misconceptions

11:24

that everybody did. So

11:26

back to my own diagnosis, I

11:29

started off with this flood of referrals

11:31

and working with a lot of families

11:33

around concerns for their kids. And most

11:35

of the kids that came marching in

11:37

the door were boys, surprise,

11:40

surprise, because this was in the

11:42

1970s. So

11:46

as I worked with more and more

11:48

families, and that rapidly

11:51

became my specialty just because of

11:53

the huge demand for services after

11:55

this public law was passed, it

11:58

became really clear to me. me that

12:01

the parents were saying I was just like that as

12:04

a kid but

12:06

nobody diagnosed me with anything and

12:08

it became so evident that

12:11

you don't outgrow it and

12:13

yet during those years

12:16

we called adult ADHD

12:19

residual type as if

12:21

it's a childhood disorder

12:23

but a few adults

12:25

have residual ADHD that's

12:27

what we believed. At

12:30

that time the training in

12:32

diagnosing ADHD among physicians

12:34

was so poor that

12:39

perhaps they received an hour or

12:41

two out of all the

12:43

years of their training as if it's a

12:45

very simple thing. It's hyperactivity and impulsivity and

12:47

you give them a pill and that's all

12:49

you need to know. Is

12:51

that much different today though? I mean what

12:54

I keep hearing is it's about an hour

12:56

or two as well. Is it

12:58

getting better? An

13:00

hour or two meaning the diagnostic process? Oh

13:02

no, no as far as

13:05

the training that physicians get.

13:07

It is not much better

13:09

and that's a great segue

13:11

into why I'm starting Chaddy,

13:13

the Chesapeake Advanced ADHD

13:15

Training Institute. Now

13:18

I'm not going to be training physicians

13:20

because only physicians

13:22

train fellow physicians and

13:24

so I may develop

13:27

a medical track and have some of

13:29

our wonderful psychiatrists be the faculty on

13:32

that medical track but for

13:34

now I am

13:37

going to be training psychologists,

13:39

psychotherapists, coaches, everyone

13:41

but physicians. But

13:43

I can tell you that my training

13:46

as a psychologist and I was trained

13:48

in the 1960s was incredibly

13:50

poor and again we just

13:52

had this, you know, we called it

13:54

hyperkinesis. I mean the only thing we

13:56

were focused on was

13:59

hyperactivity. And then

14:01

later, the main thing we focused

14:03

on was attention. And

14:06

that may sound like an improvement,

14:09

but not really, because now

14:11

I will hear – I was

14:14

talking to a parent the other day

14:17

saying that somebody

14:21

said they thought my son had

14:23

ADHD, but I know he doesn't

14:25

because he can really pay attention

14:27

when he wants to. A

14:30

complete misperception.

14:34

Short attention span and that if you

14:36

can pay attention to anything, then you

14:38

can't have it. So, boy, do

14:40

we have a lot of work to do. So,

14:43

back to my

14:45

realization that I had ADHD, the

14:47

more I saw that the parents

14:49

didn't outgrow it, the more

14:52

I thought about my family history, the

14:55

more I realized that I

14:58

had a very different version

15:00

of ADHD than my brother.

15:03

I was great in school. I loved

15:05

school. I had a PhD by the

15:07

time I was in my early 20s

15:09

and people say, how could she possibly

15:11

have ADHD? And

15:14

yet, I can tell you looking

15:16

back story after story of completely

15:20

spacing out in my freshman year in

15:22

college. I went to school just outside

15:24

of Atlanta. I was dropped off at

15:27

the Atlanta airport by my roommate. I

15:29

was going to fly home for spring

15:31

break. And I thought, oh,

15:34

I'll buy my mother a little

15:36

gift for Easter. And I started wandering

15:38

around the gift shops in the airport.

15:41

Missed my plane, completely

15:43

missed my plane. And had

15:45

to spend the night in the airport because

15:47

it was the last flight out of the day. So,

15:50

there were plenty of signs early

15:52

on that I and everybody

15:54

else missed. So,

15:57

can I ask you, what was Kathleen

16:00

like as a child? Oh,

16:04

Kathleen as a child was

16:07

again not somebody that

16:09

anyone even looking

16:11

back now would think had ADHD.

16:14

I was helpful,

16:16

I was energetic, I was my mother's

16:18

little helper, I was the oldest girl

16:20

in the family and back in those

16:22

days oldest girls did lots of chores.

16:25

They did that. I mean I

16:27

can remember learning to fold you know

16:29

wash towels and things like that when

16:31

I was three or four years old.

16:33

I was you know mommy's helper in

16:35

training and I love

16:37

to read and looking

16:39

back what I

16:42

will say is clear signs of ADHD

16:44

is I would sit in the living

16:46

room. I was one of four kids

16:48

running around the house like wild Indians.

16:50

I'm on my book like this and

16:53

people would call me and I

16:55

wouldn't hear them because I'm in

16:57

my book to the point that

16:59

my grandmother said you've got to

17:02

get that girl's hearing tested. There's

17:04

a big problem there with hearing

17:07

and my mother very wisely said

17:09

I don't think so but I'll

17:11

be happy to get her hearing

17:13

tested you know so that hyper

17:15

focus that we also don't talk

17:17

nearly enough about was hugely

17:20

an issue for me.

17:22

I would dive into things and time

17:24

didn't exist, the rest of the world

17:27

didn't exist until I pulled

17:29

myself back out. So were

17:31

you predominantly in attentive or are you predominantly

17:33

in attentive or you combined type? Was there

17:35

a hyperactivity? I

17:37

definitely combined type. I mean I'm in my

17:39

late 70s now and I am

17:42

still a bundle of energy. Yeah. You

17:44

know they all you read all these

17:47

articles about don't sit all day you

17:49

need to stand up once

17:51

every half an hour. I couldn't sit all

17:53

day if somebody paid me. I

17:55

have to get up and wander around. You

17:58

know in fact that's the way I... get my

18:00

chores done. I need to get up.

18:02

I'm sick of sitting in front of

18:04

my computer. I'll go finish the breakfast

18:06

issues. I'll go vacuum the rug. So

18:08

I'm back and forth all day.

18:10

So it's productive hyperactivity,

18:13

but it is definitely hyperactivity.

18:16

Well, I guess that's the perfect segue

18:19

into why he would write, still

18:21

distracted after all these years, which

18:23

I have to say, this

18:26

is such a fantastic book. I

18:28

think that the chapter on medication

18:30

and the finding affordable treatment resource

18:32

at the end is easily worth

18:34

the cost of this book. This

18:36

is the best description of, you

18:40

know, it's not really, okay, take, you know, this

18:42

medication does this, this medication does that. It's not

18:44

that. It's, it's so understandable.

18:46

It's so clear. It's so concise. It's

18:49

so simple. Yet there

18:51

are so many things that you mentioned in this book

18:53

that, I mean, I just wrote a book on ADHD

18:55

and I didn't know. So I

18:58

cannot rave enough about this book.

19:01

So I wanted to know, why

19:03

did you decide to write this book now? And

19:05

I know it came out last year, right? 2022.

19:08

But why now in this timeframe? Is

19:11

it because of the fact that you are such

19:13

a bundle of energy and you wanted

19:16

to get the word out that, you

19:18

know, just this, the way society

19:20

works where, you know, you turn 65 and

19:23

you go off into the sunset. And

19:25

what I know about ADHD women,

19:28

most ADHD women is that we

19:30

just have this idea of retire. Why would

19:32

I retire? There's so much to do. Exactly.

19:36

Well, I'll tell you it's

19:39

the reason I wrote the book, I've

19:41

been wanting to write that book for

19:44

more than a dozen years. And

19:46

12, 15 years

19:48

ago, I could not interest a

19:50

publisher in that topic because they

19:52

didn't think there was a market for it.

19:56

And now because of

19:58

population demographic, Our

20:01

listeners may not know this,

20:03

but 10,000 Americans turn 65

20:06

every day, every day. I

20:09

mean, I'm the oldest year of the

20:12

Baby Boomer generation, so this giant

20:15

cohort is entering

20:17

into older years, and so I

20:20

finally found a publisher going, hmm,

20:22

maybe there is a market and

20:24

this is the first and only

20:26

book, so maybe it'll sell

20:28

a ton of copies. And that's why. Are

20:31

you the one who said in this book that within

20:33

the next 15 years there are going to be more

20:35

people 65 and over than 18 and younger? Was

20:39

that in this book? Yeah, that was

20:41

a fascinating statistic. Isn't.

20:43

And so literally it is

20:46

in the process of becoming

20:48

an adult disorder that begins

20:50

in childhood rather than a

20:52

childhood disorder that sometimes extends

20:54

into adulthood just because of

20:57

our demographics. Yeah. So

20:59

it's so important for us to

21:01

realize that. And

21:03

the other reason that

21:06

I wrote it is I think

21:08

it has helped me enormously in

21:10

my later years and I

21:12

turned 65 a dozen years

21:14

ago. I mean, I've been an older

21:16

person for quite a while. So

21:19

many people think, well, if I've

21:21

lived this long without being diagnosed

21:23

with ADHD, why bother

21:26

now? What difference can it

21:28

possibly make? And

21:30

there are lots of reasons why

21:32

it's so important as an older

21:34

adult and more research is coming

21:36

out all the time. One

21:39

of the things I really want to

21:42

emphasize is Russell Barkley, whom

21:44

I admire enormously. He has

21:46

retired recently, but he was

21:48

one of the preeminent ADHD

21:50

researchers. And

21:53

he came into a conference a number of

21:55

years ago and sort of

21:58

blew the walls off. in

22:00

making this announcement to all

22:02

of the professional attendees that

22:06

his demographic research showed

22:09

that on average,

22:12

people with ADHD

22:14

live a life that

22:17

is shorter by almost a

22:19

decade. I mean, that's a

22:22

huge difference. I mean, it was

22:24

just shocking. He wrote

22:26

about why he thinks that is the

22:28

case. And a lot

22:31

of it is that untreated

22:34

ADHD, especially in

22:37

males, especially in teens and

22:39

20s, leads

22:41

to all kinds of impulsive

22:43

and dangerous things and automobile

22:46

accidents and doing

22:48

some crazy athletic stunts and

22:51

accidentally killing yourself in the process.

22:55

It can lead to drug

22:57

taking, and we have this

22:59

whole fentanyl crisis, but

23:02

people with ADHD, untreated

23:04

ADHD, I want to

23:06

keep emphasizing, are much more

23:08

prone to experimenting with

23:10

drugs because

23:12

it's exciting, because they're

23:15

impulsive. Also, self-medicating with

23:18

street drugs because they

23:20

don't have the knowledge or income

23:22

to go get a proper diagnosis.

23:25

So early deaths

23:27

happen through drugs, through accidents.

23:30

Women, right? Women in suicide. Women

23:33

in suicide. And I think

23:35

suicide is more an issue for women than

23:38

an accidental death is more

23:40

an issue for men. But

23:45

what happens? That's just the

23:47

beginning. And Russ Barkley

23:50

wrote about this, and

23:53

he wrote about it in a

23:55

somewhat judgmental fashion that people just

23:58

don't have the... the

24:00

self-discipline to lead

24:02

healthy lives. But what he was

24:05

really outlining is that the lives

24:07

that those of us with ADHD

24:09

tend to lead, we

24:11

often eat in a

24:13

very unhealthy way that's very related

24:15

to our ADHD. We're

24:17

more likely to live on

24:20

snack food, junk food, fast

24:22

food, carry out, because it's

24:25

a lot of trouble and it

24:27

requires a lot of planning and

24:29

organization to cook healthy meals. And

24:32

so, when you think

24:35

about the cost of having ADHD,

24:38

that's a huge cost. That

24:40

is much harder for us

24:42

with ADHD to eat

24:45

healthy nutrition. Number two,

24:48

it's a wellness act that

24:50

we have sleep problems. And

24:54

when you look at all the things

24:56

that curtail longevity, it's

25:00

lack of exercise. Yeah, sleep. It

25:02

takes a lot of self-discipline. Poor

25:05

nutrition, poor sleep, high

25:08

stress. It is almost

25:11

by definition stressful to be an

25:13

adult with ADHD. So,

25:16

we really have to do a lot

25:18

of work to reduce our stress

25:20

and manage our stress. So,

25:22

if you look at the list of

25:24

things that often leads to an earlier

25:26

death, we live with those every

25:28

day and we're

25:30

not paying enough

25:32

attention to that. And

25:34

when I try to talk to

25:37

clients that I work

25:39

with, they sort

25:41

of have a, yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody knows you

25:43

need to exercise, you need better sleep, you need

25:46

to, I mean, it's like it

25:48

doesn't impact them in the way

25:50

it needs to, that you're

25:52

really electing to

25:54

die in your 60s for

25:57

the most part, if

25:59

you don't. change your living

26:01

habits and I'm

26:04

not telling people therefore go out and be

26:06

healthy I mean, it's not easy

26:08

for Anyone to do that

26:10

and it's much harder for us with

26:13

ADHD And so I think

26:15

we really need to pay attention to that as

26:18

an ADHD community How can

26:20

we provide the structure and

26:22

support and can there be

26:25

healthy living groups? That

26:27

adults with ADHD can join where

26:29

they can support each other in

26:32

Daily exercise and how do I get

26:34

myself to bed and turn the light

26:37

out before? you know, oh dark

26:39

30 in the morning and how can I

26:43

Be realistic about what I'm capable of

26:45

and still eat a healthy diet and

26:48

people without ADHD Higher

26:51

coaches and trainers and go to

26:54

nutrition classes It's not like it's

26:57

easy peasy for anyone to do it but

26:59

we need a lot of extra support

27:02

and so there's something really interesting when

27:04

we think about older

27:06

adults with ADHD and Researchers

27:10

have looked at the statistics and when

27:12

it gets to older adults only

27:15

about Four percent of

27:17

them seem to qualify for

27:19

the diagnosis when it's higher younger

27:22

and guess what? That's because the other

27:24

half of us are already dead on

27:28

Your go on and nobody's made that

27:31

connection. It's not La la

27:33

la ADHD gets better as you

27:35

get older. It doesn't it's

27:37

just that half of the go-org

27:40

well, yeah, it doesn't get better if you don't do anything

27:42

about it, right if you don't read it and What

27:46

can we do to treat it in such

27:48

a way that we're actually receptive to it,

27:50

right? But it's fun that it's there's community

27:52

involved all of the things that you

27:55

talk about in this book so well You've

27:57

got it. And so one of

27:59

the things were learning fairly

28:03

recently. When I first

28:05

started doing research on

28:07

ADHD and older adults, the research

28:09

said that there was no connection

28:12

between ADHD and dementia. Current

28:15

research doesn't say that at all. Yes.

28:17

So I wanted you to talk about that because

28:20

I was going la la la, right? Oh, there's

28:22

no connection. And then all of a sudden we

28:24

had that big study. So can you talk a

28:26

little bit about that? Yes,

28:29

I can. And that's because

28:33

we're learning a lot more

28:35

about dementia and we're learning

28:38

that dementia in

28:41

many ways is a

28:43

lifestyle disease. And

28:47

physicians are starting to refer to

28:50

Alzheimer's as type 3 diabetes.

28:54

I mean, we know that type 2 diabetes

28:56

is lifestyle induced. Right. And

28:59

they're calling dementia life type

29:01

3 diabetes as in if we

29:04

keep eating that way, we're much

29:06

more likely to develop dementia. And

29:08

in the past, we didn't know that we

29:11

really thought it was genetic and

29:13

to a certain extent it is

29:16

genetic. We thought it had to

29:18

do with the accumulation of beta

29:20

amyloid plaque. And what does that

29:22

have to do with diet and

29:24

lifestyle? Now we know there's

29:27

an inflammatory process. And so

29:29

we're much more, it's

29:32

not that ADHD causes

29:34

dementia directly, it's just

29:36

that the lifestyle choices

29:38

commonly made by people

29:41

with ADHD then

29:43

lead to dementia. Another

29:45

really important study was just

29:47

released it's not a surprising

29:49

one, but that we all

29:51

know that older adults are

29:54

diminished in their capacity to drive safely

29:57

and an awful lot of people ought

29:59

to turn in their licenses well before

30:01

they do, but a recent

30:03

study that was just published a couple

30:05

of weeks ago documented

30:07

that older adults with ADHD

30:10

have a much higher rate of

30:13

accidents. Now that's not

30:15

surprising. No. And

30:18

my bet is that most of

30:20

those older adults are not on

30:23

stimulant medication. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

30:25

Most of those older adults probably don't even know they

30:28

have ADHD. Right.

30:30

So, there are all kinds

30:32

of really important reasons that

30:35

have come to light even after I

30:37

wrote the book. Mm-hmm. I

30:39

think it was important, but I'm almost feeling

30:41

like, gee, I need to revise the book

30:43

in another year because suddenly people

30:46

are paying attention to what happens

30:48

to older adults with ADHD. Yeah.

30:51

Yeah. So, what I love about this

30:54

book is that I think what you said

30:56

is that we're

30:58

no longer viewing aging as a

31:00

decline, but rather as

31:03

continuous growth, right? Meaningful

31:05

work, structure. And so, I know what

31:07

we're talking about sounds kind of morbid

31:09

and depressing, but this book is not.

31:12

It's very empowering, actually. Thank

31:15

you so much. One

31:18

of the catchphrases I use with

31:20

so many older adults, I

31:22

talk about addition and subtraction. Yes.

31:25

That life is

31:27

going to subtract things from us. I

31:30

mean, we lose our

31:32

physical agility to a certain

31:34

extent. We lose friends because

31:36

they become ill, pass

31:39

away, move away. So,

31:42

there is a very predictable

31:44

series of losses that can

31:46

lead to depression, isolation, having

31:50

a very small life, but

31:52

it doesn't have to be that way. And that's

31:55

where the addition comes in and really

31:57

trying to help people consciously think.

32:00

of I need to make new

32:02

friends. My husband and I

32:04

have joked for years we need to make younger

32:06

friends. Our friends are all getting old. Well, and

32:09

there have been studies about that,

32:11

right? Where if you have friends of all

32:13

ages, that is the most

32:15

healthy for your brain and happiness and

32:18

all of that. That's

32:20

right. Well, I was so delighted you

32:22

may have seen this, but

32:24

somebody just forwarded me the article

32:26

two days ago that, do you

32:28

remember Dr. Ruth who was so

32:30

wonderful? Yeah, she was fabulous.

32:33

Tiny little thing. Yeah. This

32:35

tiny little woman educating the use of America's

32:37

sex education. She talked about sex a lot.

32:40

That's what I remember. Yeah, both of them.

32:42

And very straightforward. Very matter

32:44

of fact and straightforward. Dr. Ruth,

32:47

well, I hadn't given Dr. Ruth a

32:49

thought and I can't tell you how

32:51

many years. And suddenly there's an article

32:53

two days ago in The New York

32:55

Times, Dr. Ruth is still alive and

32:57

well, she is 97 years old. Oh,

33:01

I didn't even know she was still alive. She

33:04

lives in New York City where she's lived

33:06

her whole adult life. She's been

33:08

a widow for 27 years. And

33:14

Dr. Ruth had a really tough

33:16

time during the pandemic as so

33:18

many people that lived alone did

33:21

because her social

33:23

life is she, you know, was

33:25

quoted in this article was going out to

33:27

dinner every night. There were little restaurants near

33:29

her apartment and she would meet friends there

33:31

and she knew the staff and that was

33:33

her social life. And then she take

33:36

part of it home and that would be her lunch

33:38

the next day. And so she had a very lively

33:40

life. And then the pandemic came in, she couldn't

33:42

go out to eat and she

33:45

couldn't have anybody in because my gosh,

33:47

she's in her mid 90s and

33:49

she can't take that risk. So

33:51

she started focusing on the issue

33:53

of loneliness during the

33:55

pandemic. She really struggled with

33:58

loneliness. this

36:00

other people must as well so I'm gonna go out

36:02

there and help them and help myself too. That's

36:05

right. I love

36:08

it because she thinks big it wasn't

36:10

that she was gonna start doing a

36:13

podcast and learning this. No, I'm gonna

36:15

be the state ambassador. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

36:22

I have a huge favor to ask

36:24

of you. You know I

36:26

wrote a book right called ADHD for

36:28

Smart Ass Women with Harper Collins William

36:30

Mara. Well, did you know that

36:32

this book was inspired by you? In

36:35

fact, many of your stories are in

36:37

this book. It's a distilled

36:39

version of the most important episodes of

36:41

this podcast to help you and women

36:43

like you fall in love with

36:45

their ADHD brain. So my ask

36:47

of you is this, if you've ever

36:49

received any value from this podcast, then it would

36:52

mean the world to me to have your support

36:54

in return by pre-ordering a

36:56

copy of my book. Look,

36:59

we need to get our pre-orders up because

37:01

the more buzz this book gets, the more

37:03

reach we get, the more women will hear

37:05

about it. And of course the natural offshoot

37:07

of all of this is we help more

37:09

women fall in love with their ADHD

37:11

brain. This is about

37:14

more than pages in a book. It's

37:16

a movement to make sure that ADHD

37:18

women everywhere kick shame to the curb,

37:20

stand in their strength, and fall in

37:23

love with their brain. Getting

37:25

all these pre-orders every week, it might not sound

37:28

like a big deal, but it's

37:30

really hard. So would you help

37:33

me by pre-ordering your copy and

37:35

I don't know, maybe a

37:37

copy for all of your friends for the

37:39

holidays? And when you

37:41

pre-order right now, I've got wonderful

37:43

bonuses for you that you'll get for

37:45

free. Bonuses like a live workshop series

37:47

with me, an instant access

37:50

to the intro, and a comprehensive

37:52

ADHD resources guide. All

37:54

for the cost of a $28 book

37:57

so you can find all the information to pre-order.

38:00

Pre-order at ADHD for smart women

38:02

comm forward slash

38:06

Stop this podcast and pre-order

38:08

right now, so you don't

38:10

forget So

38:15

this is a podcast for women ADHD for

38:17

smart-ass women and I'm wondering are there some

38:20

unique Challenges faced by older

38:22

women when it comes to ADHD

38:24

that maybe are not shared with

38:26

men Yes, I

38:29

think there are many and

38:31

I am working on a

38:33

new book because of course you are

38:36

Of course, I am a friend of my

38:38

jokes. Help me before I write

38:40

again But

38:45

Pat Quinn and I wrote our book

38:47

on women we wrote understanding girls with

38:50

ADHD and Bible

38:52

right. Well, we have revised and probably

38:55

need to do again the girls, but

38:57

we never have revised our

38:59

women's book so we

39:01

are writing a book about

39:03

and for women with ADHD

39:05

and This

39:08

time we have a third Co-author

39:11

who is male and

39:14

he is a psychiatrist on top of that

39:17

So I am thrilled that

39:19

we suddenly have a male

39:22

Advocate on board from the medical

39:24

community about and he really has

39:26

told me he works With

39:29

me at my clinic. He is a trainer

39:31

of psychiatry residents at

39:33

Georgetown University wonderful his Professional

39:36

mission is to raise

39:39

awareness of how to

39:41

diagnose and treat women with

39:43

ADHD So

39:46

we are just starting to work

39:49

on that and I

39:51

think when you asked me

39:54

are there particular issues for older women?

39:56

There are particular issues for females starting

39:59

to from when we're very, very

40:02

young. And I

40:05

mean, duh, girls are

40:07

different from boys. Of course they

40:09

are. And we're different in lots

40:12

of ways. And social

40:15

interaction between girls is very

40:18

different from boys from a

40:20

very early age. Boys and

40:22

men, for that matter, sort of

40:24

engage in parallel play. I mean, going

40:26

golfing with somebody all day, as far

40:28

as I'm concerned, women

40:31

would say, why do we need to stand out in

40:33

the golf course? Let's just sit down and talk. But

40:37

girls start interacting. And

40:40

we flourish and function

40:43

best in interaction with other

40:45

women. But we

40:47

females with ADHD because

40:50

we're different in a whole

40:53

number of ways. And we're not

40:55

cookie cutter alike. In fact, I

40:58

am writing about it in

41:01

the new book that ADHD in

41:03

women is a code of many

41:05

colors. And so

41:07

much of the work that's

41:09

been written about women

41:11

with ADHD is if we're all

41:13

alike, that we're all white and

41:15

married and mothers and live in

41:17

the suburbs and decide about our

41:19

struggles from that perspective. And

41:22

we are far from that. And

41:26

I've been interviewing women from all walks

41:28

of life in a section called In

41:31

Their Own Voices that will be in

41:33

the new book. Super-bright

41:37

women, women physicians,

41:39

women entrepreneurs, black

41:41

women, women

41:43

that are struggling as single parents. There

41:46

are just so many different

41:48

circumstances that we find ourselves

41:51

in. But I think throughout

41:53

our lives, one of the core

41:56

issues has to do

41:58

with social interaction. We so do. So

42:00

crave feeling connected

42:02

and accepted and it's so

42:04

hard for many, many women

42:07

with ADHD. Stephen

42:09

Hinshaw of whom I have the

42:11

greatest respect did this marvelous long,

42:14

long-term research project at

42:17

UC Berkeley in which he created

42:19

a summer camp so that

42:22

girls with ADHD could be

42:24

observed in interaction with non-ADHD

42:27

girls every summer for

42:29

years. And

42:31

to put it in a nutshell, he said

42:33

that combined type

42:35

girls are more likely

42:37

to be socially rejected,

42:40

meaning that the non-ADHD

42:42

girls signed on year two

42:44

loud, you erupt, you're bossy,

42:47

you're, you know, just, and

42:49

in a tin of girls,

42:52

as Stephen Hinshaw wrote, are socially

42:54

neglected, not actively rejected. It's just

42:57

they're a quiet little girl and

42:59

they don't quite know how to

43:01

join the conversation and they don't

43:04

have much confidence. So

43:06

we struggle with these issues

43:08

and that's, I really want

43:11

to keep emphasizing that there

43:13

are plenty of women with

43:15

ADHD with strong social

43:17

skills. I mean, it's not in

43:20

any way a universal, but

43:22

it's very, very common. And

43:25

I think that what

43:28

we need to talk more about is

43:30

I think one of the most healing

43:32

things we can do for little girls,

43:34

big girls, women, is

43:36

to treat them in groups with

43:39

one another. Yes, community. We

43:41

can talk about that. Community. And

43:44

finally, there are a whole group

43:46

of women that accept me and

43:48

get me and we're laughing together

43:51

and we're talking about our struggles

43:53

without feeling apologetic or defensive. We

43:56

had a girls group at my

43:58

clinic. And the

44:01

group was total chaos. These

44:03

were combined type girls. Total

44:06

chaos. The

44:08

woman who ran the group couldn't

44:11

even keep them in the room. They

44:14

were racing up and down the corridor. They

44:16

were going out in the reception area and getting

44:18

snacks from mom because they didn't like the snacks

44:20

we were serving. I mean, they were up

44:23

and down and sideways. And

44:26

I talked to the psychologist that was

44:28

running the group and going, do

44:30

you think we are

44:33

really helping these girls because they

44:35

can't even seem to be contained in the room

44:38

to have a program? Those

44:40

girls loved that

44:43

group and begged for it

44:45

to continue because it was the

44:47

first time they'd been with girls just

44:49

like me and they were having a

44:51

ball. Yeah. It was so

44:54

helpful for their self-esteem

44:57

to be in that group. And

44:59

I think that's something we really need to

45:01

pay attention to. At the

45:03

opposite end of the age

45:05

continuum, a longtime

45:07

friend and colleague of mine,

45:09

a female psychiatrist emailed me

45:11

yesterday about a woman

45:14

with ADHD in her 70s

45:16

who is in a lot of pain. And

45:19

it just paints

45:21

such a picture of, you know, these little girls

45:24

that don't fit in and here she is in

45:26

her 70s. Yeah. She's widowed. So

45:30

she sold the house that she'd

45:32

lived in many years and went

45:34

into assisted living. She's been diagnosed.

45:37

She's in treatment. I mean, she's not

45:39

one of these people that didn't get,

45:41

but she's in much

45:43

more pain now, psychological

45:45

pain. And I think

45:47

I know why. Women

45:49

in assisted living, it's almost like

45:52

being sent back to college or

45:54

high school. Oh my.

45:56

It's almost all females and their

45:58

groups and cliques. and you

46:00

know, come sit at our table for lunch

46:03

and come sit at our table for dinner

46:05

and we're going to form our own bridge

46:07

group over here because you know, and

46:11

so this poor woman is telling

46:13

my friend her psychiatrist, I'm

46:16

surrounded by organized

46:18

competent women and

46:21

they're clearly annoyed by me and

46:23

I feel so hurt

46:26

and defensive. So here she

46:28

is at the end of her life experiencing

46:30

the same thing. I

46:32

don't fit in and it's really clear

46:34

that most

46:37

of the women around me are annoyed by

46:39

me. Annoyed by me

46:41

because I interrupt, I'm a little too loud,

46:43

I arrived late, I forgot it was Tuesday,

46:45

you know, whatever it is. She

46:48

needs to start an ADHD group

46:50

in her assisted living facility and

46:54

yet the sad thing is women

46:56

with ADHD are very

46:58

very challenged to initiate. Organize and

47:01

yeah. I mean sure she would attend

47:03

it if somebody started it but

47:06

I'm sure she would. So when you

47:08

say do females

47:11

deal with different issues, I

47:14

think there are two core

47:16

elements that are huge

47:18

that affect us throughout

47:20

our entire lifetime. One is the social

47:22

issue I just talked about and

47:24

the other is societal.

47:28

That all

47:30

this women's live we've theoretically

47:33

achieved over these decades. Society,

47:36

you'll read article after article that

47:38

I don't care if the woman

47:40

is a CEO, her

47:43

husband still expects her to do most of

47:45

the parenting and

47:47

job absolutely and

47:49

so that's exactly what we're bad at

47:52

and so we don't. And

47:54

it's BS, you know, we don't put this

47:57

on men with ADHD right? We

47:59

assume they do. go get help. We assume

48:01

that they'd have all the structure

48:03

that they need versus with women were

48:06

made to feel guilty if we can't do all

48:08

of those things. That's right. We're supposed

48:10

to be helping everybody else. Yeah, everybody else

48:12

is a social secretary, right? Exactly.

48:15

And so throughout our

48:17

lives, if we

48:21

are disheveled, if we haven't

48:23

gotten our hair done or

48:27

didn't get ready in time to look put

48:29

together, whether we're in high school or college

48:31

or you name it, if we are a

48:33

mess, if I

48:36

interviewed everyone about do you entertain at home

48:38

and I just had to laugh out loud

48:40

when one of the women responded, not if

48:43

I can help it. However,

48:47

if it's your area of interest, then

48:50

you're brilliant at it, right? Which is

48:52

what makes it all so confusing.

48:55

Well, let me tell, let me,

48:57

because I'm, I see that we're

48:59

sort of nearing the end of our talk

49:01

and I don't want it to be all

49:03

negative. I was responding to how

49:06

does ADHD impact females

49:08

differently? Societal expectations, social

49:10

interactions, those are two

49:13

powerful things. Hormonal

49:15

fluctuations. Oh my goodness. And

49:17

we're just starting to pay

49:20

attention to that now

49:23

that one of the

49:25

most common times for a girl to

49:27

be diagnosed with ADHD is when she

49:29

hits puberty. Yep. Because that's the first

49:32

time her hormones start fluctuating. I

49:34

will tell you that I

49:37

headed a panel on women

49:39

with ADHD at a conference

49:42

seven years ago, maybe. And

49:44

I invited several women researchers to join

49:46

me on the panel and

49:48

a not to

49:50

be named very, very well-known male

49:53

ADHD expert invited himself to the

49:55

panel. Oh, same.

49:57

I didn't research on girls. I should be invited.

54:00

one or let's try a different dose and then they

54:02

just give up because either it's

54:04

not helping at all or

54:07

I can't stand feeling so wired.

54:09

Yeah, that would be me. Yeah

54:12

and that's true for many women because

54:14

it sort of interacts with anxiety. Yep.

54:17

And I feel that a lot

54:20

of psychiatrists are, most

54:22

psychiatrists are not trained in the

54:24

nuances of this to know

54:26

that SSRIs can be easily prescribed

54:31

in combination with stimulants and sometimes

54:33

that can reduce the anxiety. A

54:35

lot of psychiatrists don't know, I

54:38

was talking to a woman about

54:40

this just a few days ago,

54:42

that some people are so sensitive

54:45

to stimulants that what

54:47

they need is a micro dose

54:49

and they're never given a micro

54:51

dose. Yeah, that would be me too.

54:53

A slow metabolizer. There

54:56

you go. I worked with a

54:58

guy who was 6 foot 2,

55:00

you know, big decent-sized

55:03

guy who took

55:06

2.5 milligrams of Ritalin. Now

55:08

a six-year-old was given 10

55:10

milligrams. He took 2.5 and

55:12

it really helped him and if he

55:14

took any more than that he couldn't stand it and

55:16

I think a lot of psychiatrists

55:19

or prescribers would never

55:21

even consider that as an option

55:24

because they're just not as experienced

55:27

in the nuances. So no,

55:29

I'm not saying that if you combine...

55:31

Well let me read, let me read what,

55:33

what, because I highlighted and I'm like

55:35

I need to know more about this. When

55:38

both MPH and AMP are

55:40

tried in combination, about 85%

55:42

of people get

55:44

a robust life-changing level of benefit with very

55:46

good tolerance of minor side effects. But

55:49

again, that means that 15% of people

55:51

who try the standard stimulants either do

55:54

not get benefits or can't tolerate the

55:57

side effect. Right. And

55:59

darn few. Do psychiatrists ever

56:02

consider prescribing that combination?

56:05

What is that combination though? I've

56:07

never heard of this before. There

56:09

are two families of stimulants. One

56:13

is the methylphenidate family and the

56:15

other is the dextranthetamin family. And

56:18

all psychiatrists or pediatricians whatever know, well

56:20

if this doesn't work, we'll try one

56:23

and the other family. But

56:25

it's an extreme rarity that they say, well

56:27

let's try a little bit of both. Well

56:29

I've never heard of this after all these

56:31

years. So

56:35

why would that work when it doesn't work

56:37

on its own? And what

56:39

would the combinations look like? Because

56:41

methylphenidate is like a ritalin, right?

56:44

That's a methylphenidate. And

56:47

amphetamine... And all of those

56:49

are methylphenidate. Okay, so would you take a

56:51

little tiny bit of both of those then? Is

56:54

that what you're saying? I

56:56

want to be clear that I

56:59

am not a psychopharmacologist. And

57:02

so I can't be saying, well if you take

57:04

two and a half milligrams of this and five

57:06

milligrams of that. And it's individual and...

57:09

Yeah, but what I am saying is

57:11

there is research that supports that sometimes

57:13

a combination of both and lower doses

57:15

can be very impactful.

57:19

And why? I

57:21

don't know because that's why I'm saying

57:23

that I'm out of my depth in

57:25

terms of what the mechanisms of that should

57:27

look like. Okay, but there's research

57:29

that shows that this often can work

57:31

for people. Well because I'm going

57:34

to run right over to my doctor and

57:36

say, look, this is in her book. Let's

57:40

try it. And you've got nothing to lose

57:42

by trying it. Oh, I've

57:44

tried so many different medications. And

57:46

I just... However, one

57:48

time, and I talk about this, Ritalin

57:51

worked for me one time. I was getting ready

57:53

to give a speech. I can't memorize anything. I

57:56

took it. I was coming home from the doctor.

57:59

I had to... prescription, I took it and

58:01

it was like the sky opened up

58:03

and I literally could go through that

58:06

speech word for word five times before

58:08

I went home. It

58:10

never happened again. But

58:12

that little bit, right, makes me realize

58:14

that there's something that could work. There's

58:16

something that will work because it happened

58:19

one time before. I just

58:21

can't figure out the combination. Brains

58:25

are so different. I mean,

58:27

some people realize they need

58:29

to take stimulants intermittently or

58:31

they become less effective. Yeah.

58:34

Other people take the same dose for

58:36

years and it helps them all the time. So

58:40

before I let you go, what is

58:42

your number one ADHD workaround? Well,

58:49

I'm not so sure I would

58:51

call it a workaround, but I

58:53

constantly coach myself

58:55

in my head, constantly

58:58

coach myself. And I'm talking about

59:00

little bitty things. Like

59:02

there's this wonderful phrase, I've forgotten the

59:04

name of the female coach, but

59:06

it's her catchphrase of don't

59:09

put it down, put it away. Don't

59:12

put it down, put it away. I

59:14

will literally say things like that to

59:17

myself in my head. Don't put your coat down

59:19

on the back of the chair in the breakfast

59:21

room, put it away. That

59:25

the clutter that we live

59:27

with is basically a collection

59:30

of hundreds of tiny,

59:32

incomplete tasks. You

59:35

know, that I didn't take this cup and

59:37

take it to the kitchen and put it

59:39

in the dishwasher, not on the sink. So

59:43

really literally talking to myself

59:46

out loud about what I

59:48

know. So that kind

59:50

of self-coaching, and it may sound silly

59:52

after all these years that I need to do

59:54

that, but I find it... No! No

59:57

one's ever suggested that, and I love it. Mine

1:00:00

is, be a last 5% finisher. Right?

1:00:04

Because then it's gone and every time you walk

1:00:06

by it, you're like, oh, look what I did

1:00:08

and there's dopamine. Right? There you

1:00:10

go. And I call that tying

1:00:12

the bow. Like if you're wrapping

1:00:15

a package, the last task is tie the

1:00:17

bow. Tie the bow on each thing that

1:00:19

you do. And so

1:00:21

you'll find me doing things at very odd times

1:00:23

of day because I really want to tie that

1:00:25

bow before I go to bed. As many bows

1:00:27

as you can. That's right.

1:00:30

Kathleen, are you working on something that you want to tell

1:00:32

us about? I

1:00:34

very much want to tell

1:00:36

people about the CHADI, Advanced

1:00:39

ADHD Training Institute, because

1:00:43

there is no profession in which

1:00:46

there's adequate training on the

1:00:49

diagnosis and treatment of ADHD.

1:00:52

There's just a huge lack. And

1:00:54

so most people, if they get any

1:00:56

treatment at all, it's purely medication. So

1:01:00

I think the capstone of my

1:01:02

career is sharing

1:01:04

all that I've learned over all these

1:01:06

decades about how complex

1:01:09

ADHD is, how

1:01:11

intertwined it is with so many other

1:01:13

issues that we really need to have

1:01:15

a much broader expertise than most of

1:01:18

us have, and that there

1:01:20

are really effective ways that we can

1:01:22

help people. So

1:01:25

if people want to know more about this,

1:01:27

where would they go? CHADI.

1:01:30

CHADI. Well, we are

1:01:32

building the website as

1:01:34

we speak so they can't find it

1:01:37

directly, but they can find information about

1:01:39

it on my website for the clinic,

1:01:42

which is chesapeakeadd.com.

1:01:47

Okay, that's ChesapeakeADD.com?

1:01:51

chesapeakeadd.com. So

1:01:53

I have a website here that's

1:01:57

the chesapeakecenter.com. Is that different? It's

1:02:00

the same one. Okay, we're moving

1:02:03

over to no website. So the

1:02:05

Chesapeake Center dot-com there is Easier

1:02:08

for people to remember probably I'll

1:02:10

get exactly the same website with

1:02:12

either one Okay, so Chesapeake ADD

1:02:15

comm or the Chesapeake Center comm

1:02:17

both of them will be on

1:02:19

our show notes Dr.

1:02:22

Nadeau, thank you so much for spending time with

1:02:24

us here today. It has really been a privilege

1:02:26

to meet you Well, this has

1:02:29

been a lot of fun you're a great interviewer Thank

1:02:32

you. So that's what I

1:02:34

have for you for this week. If you like

1:02:36

this episode with dr Nadeau, please let us know

1:02:39

by leaving a review Our goal

1:02:41

is to change the conversation around ADHD

1:02:44

Helping as many women as we possibly

1:02:46

can learn how their ADHD brains work

1:02:48

So that they too may discover their

1:02:50

amazing strengths as

1:02:52

always you're listening to ADHD

1:02:54

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1:02:57

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1:02:59

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1:03:02

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1:03:04

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1:03:06

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1:03:11

You've been listening to the

1:03:13

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1:03:16

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1:03:18

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1:03:20

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1:03:23

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1:03:26

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1:03:30

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1:03:34

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