0:01

It is interesting how we

0:03

can get stuck looking at

0:05

our insufficiency,

0:08

but I try to help

0:10

people to really refocus on

0:13

possibilities, on potential, on the strengths

0:16

as you do. Sometimes

0:18

we think, oh, it would

0:21

be better to hide out while

0:23

I sort all this stuff through, but

0:26

we're missing so many brains in

0:29

our communities. We're missing so many wonderful

0:31

voices. We're missing so much

0:34

talent when we have a

0:36

whole section of our population hiding

0:38

out, fearing that they're going

0:40

to be found out, when really we're all

0:43

brilliant minds. We are all

0:45

so gifted. Richard

0:52

Branson, Michael Phelps,

0:55

Justin Timberlake, James

0:57

Carville. Wait a minute. Where

1:01

are the women? Greta

1:05

Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra

1:08

McDonald, Simone Biles.

1:11

That sounds like a list of highly

1:13

successful Titans in a variety of

1:15

industries. They all have ADHD, but

1:18

you don't hear much about that now, do

1:20

you? You know what else

1:22

you don't hear about? Are the

1:24

43% of people with ADHD who

1:26

are in excellent mental health. Why

1:29

aren't we talking about them and what they're

1:31

doing right? I'm your

1:33

host, Tracy Atsuka, and that's exactly

1:35

what we do here. I'm a

1:37

lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong

1:40

student, and now the author of

1:42

my new book, ADHD for Smartass

1:44

Women. I'm also a certified

1:46

ADHD coach and the creator

1:48

of Your ADHD Brain is

1:50

A-OK, a patented system

1:52

that helps ADHD women just like

1:55

you get unstuck and fall in

1:57

love with their brilliant brains. We

2:00

embrace our two-week shifts and we focus

2:02

on our strengths. My guests

2:05

and I credit our ADHD for

2:07

some of our greatest deaths. And

2:10

to those who still think they're

2:12

too much, too impulsive, too scattered,

2:14

too disorganized, I say no

2:17

one ever made a difference by being too

2:19

little. Hello,

2:25

hello, hello. I am your host, Tracy

2:27

Otsuka. Thank you so much for joining

2:29

me here for episode number 259 of

2:31

ADHD for Smart Ass Women. This

2:36

is going to be a very different

2:38

episode than anything we've ever done here.

2:41

Today, I have invited my good

2:43

friend, Dr. Christine Lee, to the

2:45

podcast and she's going to interview

2:48

me. I don't really know what

2:50

we're going to talk about and

2:52

so I'm really nervous. I don't

2:54

know what motherhood, ADHD, positive emotion.

2:57

Probably the book, but the

2:59

ball is clearly in Christine's court.

3:02

She's running with it and

3:04

where we end up, we end up, but

3:06

we promise it'll be fun, right? Right. Hi,

3:09

everyone. I'm so happy to be here. So

3:12

let me introduce you. I

3:15

am delighted to introduce you to Dr.

3:17

Christine Lee. You may

3:19

already know her as the

3:21

procrastination coach. Dr.

3:24

Lee is a seasoned psychologist who calls

3:26

Westchester, New York her home and

3:29

her journey into the depths of

3:31

procrastination research began as a personal

3:33

mission to conquer her own

3:35

procrastination habits. This quest

3:38

has not only led her to a

3:40

profound understanding of the topic, but

3:42

also established her as a renowned expert

3:44

in the field. In

3:46

addition to her academic contributions, Dr.

3:48

Lee is the host of the

3:51

highly regarded podcasts Make Time for

3:53

Success where she shares invaluable

3:55

insights and strategies to help

3:57

listeners overcome procrastination and achieve

4:00

their goals. Her impressive track

4:02

record includes facilitating engaging workshops

4:04

and training programs on

4:07

procrastination at prestigious

4:09

institutions such as Columbia University,

4:11

New York Presbyterian Medical School,

4:14

Fordham University, Barnard College, so

4:16

on and so on. Dr.

4:18

Lee's blend of personal experience

4:21

and professional expertise makes her

4:23

insights and teachings particularly impactful

4:26

and relatable. Welcome

4:28

Christine. I'm kind of

4:30

scared because this is the first time in

4:32

five years I'm giving up all control and

4:34

you know I'm a control freak, right? Well

4:36

Tracy, this makes two of

4:38

us being terrified and I

4:40

am just gonna say

4:43

thank you for trusting me

4:45

with the interviewer role here

4:47

because your podcast has

4:50

become such a wonderful source

4:52

of inspiration,

4:54

information, and entertainment

4:57

for so many women around

5:00

men and women around the world. So

5:02

I want to congratulate you on this platform

5:04

and on the work that you've done and

5:06

now this beautiful book that you've created as

5:08

well. Thank

5:10

you. You know when I was looking

5:12

for your bio, I was searching my

5:15

Google Drive for your old show notes because you

5:17

were on this show before. Do you

5:19

know you were my first guest on

5:21

this podcast ever? I do

5:23

know that and I remember asking

5:26

you to switch the time that we

5:28

were recording. It's something I try not

5:30

to do and I think

5:32

we were both a little bit

5:34

discombobulated as a result but

5:36

I remember just being

5:38

excited and being so grateful to be

5:41

your friend and kind of colleague

5:44

throughout. So thank you for having

5:47

me be a friend and colleague

5:49

along for your ride because it's

5:51

been amazing to see your work,

5:54

your passion come to life

5:56

and to see what you've created again

5:58

with this beautiful podcast. Well,

6:00

thank you. So here we

6:02

go. Let's talk about this

6:04

wonderful book that you have created.

6:08

And why don't we start with

6:10

the whole concept of control

6:12

and what you've learned

6:15

from designing the book,

6:17

coming up with the book, negotiating the

6:19

book, and now coming to this point

6:21

where you're actually telling

6:23

the world about this book and really

6:26

celebrating the book and what it means

6:29

for the community of women with ADHD.

6:32

How have you had to navigate

6:35

your own issues around

6:37

control and wanting to have everything

6:39

go a certain way in

6:42

this process? Let's start there. Well,

6:45

it's really interesting because I am a

6:47

control freak. I want to make sure

6:49

that I'm managing everything so that I

6:51

can perform at the optimum

6:53

level. And this is

6:55

the first time in literally decades where

6:57

I was not in control. Now,

7:00

the only way I could have written

7:02

this book, I knew this from the

7:04

beginning, was I couldn't self-publish. If

7:07

I would have self-published, it would have never gotten done. I

7:09

needed a little bit of the,

7:11

what do they call it? The whip. Whatever.

7:15

The whip. I needed a little

7:17

bit of the whip because we will

7:19

often disappoint ourselves, but if there's big

7:21

enough guns, we're never going

7:24

to disappoint anyone else. So

7:27

I knew I needed a publisher, traditional

7:29

publishing, and I knew it had to

7:31

be a publisher that was pretty substantial.

7:34

I definitely got that with my

7:37

acquiring editor, Lisa Sharkey. But

7:39

the flip side to that is you're

7:42

doing something you've never done before, and

7:44

I could feel myself really pushing back

7:47

because I wasn't

7:50

leading the show, and I'm used

7:52

to leading the show and doing what I want

7:54

to do when I want to do it, right?

7:57

That's kind of the ADHD brain. We

7:59

like... everything to be in this free

8:01

space of when I feel like it, I'm going to

8:03

do it and I'm going to do it my way.

8:06

And here, I couldn't do that. But

8:09

what I realized, you know, and I pushed back,

8:11

I pushed back and then I realized that, wait

8:14

a minute, these people know

8:16

what they're doing. Like how many

8:18

hundreds of, you know, New York

8:21

Times bestsellers have, you know, Lisa

8:23

Sharkey pushed into the stratosphere. I

8:26

need to just back up and

8:28

back off and let them lead. And

8:32

you know, even with dancing, like, I

8:34

remember my husband and I, we took dance

8:36

classes and I couldn't not lead. That's just

8:38

who I am. Like I'm a bulldozer, right?

8:42

And so I really had to

8:44

learn how to not lead. And the understanding

8:46

I came to with myself is that, again,

8:48

these people are doing this every day. They're

8:50

so much better than you at it. But

8:54

I also had to fight for what I

8:57

knew I needed, right? Because otherwise then it

8:59

wasn't going to work at all. But

9:03

I needed them as much

9:05

as they needed me, right? So

9:07

it had to be a team. And

9:09

there were things that they were always

9:11

going, they had all this experience. So

9:14

I had to sit down, shut up

9:16

and listen and do what it was

9:18

that they were asking me to

9:20

do. It had to make sense,

9:22

but it's like in

9:24

the real world, right? We need both

9:27

brains, right? We need the neurotypical brains

9:29

because they're going to provide the structure

9:31

and keep you moving forward. Like, you

9:33

know, just these amazing editors that I

9:35

had the privilege of working with. And

9:39

the way my brain works, it's

9:41

all these thoughts. And

9:43

this is an ADHD thing. They're

9:45

all important. You know, we struggle to

9:47

determine, okay, which are the thoughts that

9:49

really should come first and which ones

9:51

should I just get rid of because

9:53

I'm going to overwhelm people. But

9:56

because I know that

9:58

my audience... You

10:00

meet one person with ADHD, you've met one

10:02

person with ADHD, and so I felt like,

10:05

well, they all need something different. So I

10:07

want to make sure I'm throwing everything at

10:09

them and the kitchen sink, but that just

10:11

makes for a very confusing, very long, very

10:14

cluttered book. And so I

10:16

was, as much as

10:18

it was really foreign to me and really

10:20

difficult for me to kind of abdicate that

10:22

control, I knew that they

10:24

would streamline the book and literally reduce

10:27

it by half and put

10:29

in what was

10:31

simple and clear and needed to

10:33

be there. And even though

10:36

they got rid of half of my stories, and

10:38

sometimes I'm reading this book and I'm thinking, well,

10:40

what happened to that story? Oh, they cut that

10:42

too, right? Because I

10:44

would go on and on. And they were

10:46

like, no, one paragraph, two paragraphs.

10:48

I want to interject here that

10:51

having just recently gone through the

10:53

book and had the pleasure of reading the book, I

10:55

want to tell our listeners that

10:57

the book actually is super clear. I

11:00

was struck by that immediately from the

11:02

first time I read the book or

11:04

attempted to read the whole book. It

11:07

was so

11:09

delightful because there's Tracy stories

11:11

and her voice is in there.

11:13

So it really comes through, but

11:15

it's also super clear and

11:18

intelligent without being overwhelming.

11:21

And I just thought this is a wonderful

11:24

piece of work. So I just wanted to share

11:26

that at the top of the interview because I

11:28

didn't want to leave that out because I think

11:30

that would be a shame if people thought, oh, this

11:32

is just going to

11:34

be a bunch of nonfiction

11:37

heavy stuff. It really isn't.

11:39

It is a beautiful, smooth,

11:42

delightful read. So that's

11:45

my two cents there. But really take

11:47

that as fact. That's my editor. Trust

11:50

me. Okay. Let's

11:52

go with what you needed from

11:54

the book before you started. What did

11:57

you know you had to

11:59

put into the. world to put into this

12:01

book before you started writing. So

12:06

the reason why I wanted to write this

12:08

book is obviously we want to change more

12:10

women's lives. I mean, that's always

12:13

the goal. But my programs

12:15

can be pricey to some.

12:19

And I always felt bad.

12:21

Like if you can't afford my program,

12:23

where can I send you? And

12:26

so the goal was to write a

12:29

book that I could send them to the book

12:31

because everybody can afford a book. I'm

12:34

trying to remember where I wanted to... What

12:38

was your question again, Kristy? What you wanted

12:41

from the book, what you felt it

12:43

was going to do for you and your mission. So

12:47

my other goal was some people

12:49

just aren't podcast people, right? But

12:53

I know how many lives we've been

12:55

able to change for this podcast. I

12:57

mean, I get these messages daily, multiple

12:59

times a day. And

13:02

I wanted to be able to do that with the book.

13:05

And that was my biggest fear. I

13:07

felt like, well, if my editors are

13:09

taking things out, that means there's less

13:12

of my voice and isn't

13:14

that... And I didn't even know what they were taking

13:16

out at that point because there was so much to

13:19

take out. Like it was overwhelming what I gave them.

13:22

And then the way my brain works is

13:24

out of sight, out of mind, right? So

13:26

I didn't even realize it was taken out

13:29

because I would not take the time to

13:31

go through all the edits and really figure

13:33

out what was taken out. I mean,

13:35

sometimes I did, but generally no. And

13:37

so I just wanted to make sure that

13:39

what we did with the podcast, we were

13:42

actually able to do with the book. And

13:46

when you are so close to something like

13:48

a book that you've spent almost two years

13:50

from the book proposal to actually delivering

13:53

this book to market, when you spent

13:55

that... Actually, it was two and a half years. When

13:57

you spent that long in it... Oh

14:00

my gosh, it's like here. I couldn't see the

14:02

forest or the trees. And so when I was

14:04

done with the book, I was just like, this

14:07

sucks. This is, you

14:09

know, because it was so close. I couldn't

14:11

see, had we accomplished what I really was

14:13

hoping we had accomplished. And then

14:15

when I gave it to people to read and they said,

14:17

oh no, no, it's great. I just thought they were lying

14:19

to me because that's just how my brain works. Now, you

14:22

know, you're just being nice. And

14:24

then I went to go visit my, I

14:26

had never met my publishing team in

14:29

person. And I went to New York, I was there

14:31

and I met them for lunch. And

14:34

my editor, Maddie Pilari said to

14:36

me, I am really proud

14:38

of this book. I'm proud to have been part

14:40

of it. And I could tell

14:43

that she wasn't just telling me that,

14:45

that she really believed that. So

14:47

that was the first thing. And I remember

14:49

thinking, and

14:52

it was really like this whole thing was so

14:54

emotional because, you know, my mom

14:57

passed away, very unexpectedly,

14:59

literally I delivered the manuscript on

15:01

a Tuesday, it was all done.

15:04

And I had never, she never read it. She

15:06

hadn't been given any of it because I'm

15:09

a perfectionist and I thought, well, if

15:11

I could give her the book like this,

15:13

you know, it's just more credible, right? And

15:17

so I hadn't given her anything.

15:19

And my

15:21

thought with Maddie was, if

15:23

she can be proud of this book, I

15:26

can be proud of this book too. And

15:29

then I went home and we

15:31

got the review from Publishers

15:33

Weekly. And I just found

15:36

that by accident. And I was just, once I found

15:38

it, I was like, oh my gosh. And it was

15:40

so hard to even go in there and read it.

15:44

And right after that, I also found, and

15:46

I always forget, what is that? I'm

15:49

gonna look for it right now. It's

15:52

called NetGalley. So from the Publishers Weekly review,

15:54

somehow I ended up on NetGalley and I'm

15:56

like, oh my gosh, real people have

15:58

reviewed this book. And I went into. the reviews

16:00

and there were people who were saying things

16:02

like, I don't read nonfiction, I have no

16:05

interest in nonfiction. The title of this book

16:07

is what kind of hooked me in and

16:10

I am so glad that I read it because

16:12

it changed my life. And so

16:14

when I started reading those kinds of reviews,

16:16

I realized that, oh

16:19

my gosh, I think we did accomplish it. And

16:22

then yesterday I found out that Book Riot

16:24

just named our book, ADHD

16:27

for Smart Ass Women as one of

16:30

the top self-help books for 2024. And

16:34

of course I didn't know who Book Riot was and so

16:36

I had to look it up. And my publishers were like,

16:38

this is a big deal. And I looked it up and

16:40

I'm like, okay, it is a big deal. So I'm really

16:42

proud of that. And so now, and then

16:44

I'm getting, so the book isn't supposed to be

16:47

available, but for some reason Barnes and Noble has

16:49

it. And I've been getting little messages from women

16:51

I don't know, who are like, I'm in the

16:54

aisles and I'm crying. I

16:56

bought this book and I, you know, it's changed

16:58

my life. So I know

17:01

that we've been able to accomplish what we

17:03

did on the podcast. And the other goal

17:05

was I wanted to give them something where

17:07

the whole podcast, like the most important parts

17:09

of the podcast were all in one book.

17:11

So if you're like me where I just

17:13

want to get to the bottom line, I

17:15

don't want to read or listen to 267

17:18

podcasts, you can go to this

17:20

book and it's all in one place, the most important thing.

17:23

It's really long winded, but that

17:25

would be the answer to what did I

17:27

want to get out of it. Sounds

17:29

great. You are making me think just

17:32

in your example of one

17:34

woman with lots of

17:36

different ideas, big dreams, but also

17:39

some self doubt. How

17:41

do you encourage your

17:43

audience to keep the

17:46

bigger vision alive

17:49

when there is maybe sometimes a

17:51

very strong cord,

17:53

self doubt voice inside

17:55

saying, you know what? You're

17:58

really lame. You know what? They

18:00

have a lot in the past. You know what's

18:02

your kind of it imposter. Do in this

18:04

stuff that you're trying to do? What

18:06

are your techniques That. Many of them

18:08

are in the box I know, but if

18:10

you could share with some of them now

18:13

some of those techniques with us now but

18:15

also just your general. Idea as

18:17

because you've been able to

18:20

navigate that. Conflict.

18:22

right? The the imposter voice inside.

18:24

and the big this and big

18:26

do or big creator part of

18:28

you. Have. People.

18:31

Assume that when you had a d.

18:33

H D You're lazy and

18:35

motivated and not within to

18:38

full potential. Only one of

18:40

those things is true. A

18:43

D H D for smart ass

18:45

women. The birth helps readers understand

18:47

the different strategies that. Are

18:50

unique frames require to succeed?

18:53

So that week is a com

18:55

the best person of ourselves right

18:57

now and you know when it's

18:59

available for preorder. As a

19:01

D H D for smart women.com

19:03

Fourth spot. If

19:06

you pre order you get a myriad

19:08

of bonuses starting with my free training

19:11

on What A D H D at

19:13

Sweet. Looks like and women

19:15

so go to A D

19:18

H D first. Smart women.com

19:20

Forward/bus. And pre order

19:22

right now the for

19:24

you forget. I

19:29

think that I am

19:31

actually an example. Of.

19:35

Just doing it and doing

19:37

it messy and not apologizing

19:39

and. I've. Always had

19:42

this attitude that. I.

19:44

Don't know how I'm gonna do it. But.

19:47

I'm just gonna do it. Like. How

19:49

did I even end up? In.

19:51

Very short years, right? Being this

19:53

expert on eighty a C n

19:55

the fact that I often feel

19:57

like I'm taking on. A lot.

20:00

of the ADHD establishment, right? That's all

20:02

about the pathology and what's wrong with

20:04

us and what's broken. And the truth

20:06

of the matter is there's nothing wrong

20:08

with us and 43% of us are

20:10

in excellent mental health but nobody wants

20:12

to talk about that and that's a

20:14

big study out of Canada and you

20:16

know, like I don't stop

20:19

talking about that. So instead of

20:21

worrying about all the

20:23

stuff that we can't do, what if

20:26

we focus on what we can

20:28

do and what we do well,

20:30

right? With our high energy and

20:32

our great creativity and our, you

20:35

know, hyper focused interests. I've

20:37

just never felt the need to apologize

20:39

for who I am. It's almost like,

20:42

well if you don't like me and you don't get it,

20:44

screw it. Now do I sometimes

20:46

have thoughts where, so I

20:49

have a real struggle with working memory, you know that.

20:52

And I really believe that what you focus

20:54

on just gets bigger, right? And so as I'm

20:56

talking about my working memory, literally I'm thinking why

20:58

are you talking about this? Why are you talking

21:00

about this? But it is a struggle.

21:03

So I am now having to put

21:05

myself out there with

21:08

my weakness of a pretty bad

21:10

working memory and I've written this

21:12

book but there are times when

21:14

I'll be preparing for a podcast and

21:16

I'm thinking, okay they want to talk about

21:18

attention, okay? Attention, what? I guess that's focus,

21:20

right? Like it doesn't come natural to me

21:23

and so I will go do all the

21:26

research again and I'll have

21:28

it all put together for, you know, if someone's

21:30

interviewing me or, you know, I'm on

21:32

a podcast and it's specific and then

21:34

I will go into this book like as

21:36

a closing thought and I will go

21:38

in and I'm like, wait a minute, I said it all

21:40

here and I said it so

21:42

simply and, you know, I just went

21:45

on this two-hour wild goose chase but

21:47

it was all in here but I've

21:49

forgotten that it's in here.

21:51

I've forgotten that I've simplified it. So

21:55

I think I'm an example of if

21:58

I go on a podcast or

22:00

if I'm in an interview with

22:02

media and I don't remember something,

22:05

I'm just very honest about, okay,

22:08

it's called a wormhole, that's what

22:10

I call it, and I

22:12

have on BearApp,

22:15

I have a little section that is

22:17

basically called, do I call it wormhole

22:19

or did I change the wordhole?

22:22

But I feel like it's a

22:24

worm that's boring into my

22:26

head. That

22:29

certain words, evolutionary, why can I remember

22:31

the word evolutionary? There are just certain

22:33

words, they don't stick in my brain.

22:36

Certain names like book,

22:40

riot. I

22:42

asked my husband 20 times,

22:44

what was that again? Because

22:46

it doesn't make sense. How

22:48

does riot have anything to

22:50

do with a site that

22:52

publishes reviews, that reviews books,

22:54

riot? If it doesn't make

22:57

sense, nervous

22:59

system, how is it that I can't

23:01

remember the word nervous system, but I

23:03

always get stuck? I've

23:05

just learned to basically

23:08

show the world where I get stuck. I

23:10

hired a speaking coach that you referred

23:13

to me, Catherine, what's her

23:15

last name? Beck. Beck?

23:19

I asked her to please, no, she asked me.

23:21

She said, okay, I want you to take a

23:23

podcast episode. I'm like, I'm

23:25

going to give you this one before it's edited, and

23:27

I think I bombed it. I

23:29

gave it to her and she came back and

23:31

she said, actually, when you were struggling for your

23:33

words, because she believes she has

23:35

ADHD too, she goes, I could

23:38

relate to that so much that it

23:40

made me lean in more, because instead

23:42

of pretending that it didn't happen, so

23:44

they'd cut it out or whatever, it

23:46

was really what was most engaging because

23:48

I could see myself in you. I

23:52

have learned to just do

23:54

it, even though it's super scary

23:56

because it's to

23:58

do it, and instead of thinking about it, about myself too,

24:01

thinking about that one

24:03

woman out there whose life,

24:05

that podcast, that interview, that

24:08

whatever will change the

24:10

book, like that one person who's going to

24:12

read that book and it's going to change

24:14

their life. And so I could go through

24:17

all of the discomfort of

24:19

being in a position where I had to follow and

24:21

I couldn't lead and I had to, you know, not

24:24

be the one that was bossing everybody else

24:27

around, right? Because

24:29

it was for that one person. It

24:32

wasn't about me, ultimately. I

24:36

love this and I'm so glad

24:38

you're speaking more and more on

24:42

not just your podcast but on other

24:44

stages as well. And I

24:46

think it's great for everyone, including

24:48

your own experience of your own power.

24:51

I believe that for everyone who

24:53

gets on a stage, really, we have to go

24:55

through our greatest fears, I

24:57

think sometimes, to really

25:01

fulfill our own dreams and

25:03

fulfill our potential. So I'm so proud

25:06

of you and so grateful that

25:08

you're having all these opportunities because

25:10

of things like Book Riot. I'm sure there's

25:12

a lot in store for you

25:14

next year and the years following. When

25:17

you spoke about feeling,

25:20

I forget what word

25:22

you were using, guild, something like that,

25:24

it made me think about that

25:27

section in your book which

25:29

is a beautiful section about the

25:32

nature of ADHD and women

25:35

in particular, the fact

25:37

that women need to

25:40

adhere to certain gender norms

25:42

and roles, that there

25:44

are different pressures that women face

25:47

without maybe even consciously knowing

25:49

about them because they are

25:51

women. And I would love for you

25:54

to say a few

25:56

words about how important

25:58

these issues are for you. and

26:00

why you're doing all of this work, the book and

26:02

the promotion and your podcast, because

26:04

I found that section to be

26:06

so important and

26:09

so what all about who you

26:11

are and all about what your work

26:14

is. So I just definitely wanted to make

26:16

sure to mention that on this episode. So

26:20

you know I'm all about the humor,

26:22

I'm all about the positive emotion, I'm

26:25

all about making things light. However

26:28

ADHD in women

26:30

is a really serious subject because 24%

26:32

of all women with ADHD will attempt

26:36

suicide, especially the hyperactive impulsive

26:38

types which you can imagine why that

26:40

would be, right? And so

26:42

I don't want to make light of it because

26:45

women struggle with certainly

26:48

you know suicide-ation. I think

26:51

it's eight times the rate of men, but women

26:53

in general with ADHD struggle so

26:56

much more than men with ADHD

26:58

and that is because of society

27:00

and all these roles and sexism

27:03

and this idea that you

27:05

can't just, it's not enough to take care of

27:07

yourself, right? You

27:10

also are responsible for the kids,

27:12

if there are kids, you're responsible

27:14

for the household, you're responsible often

27:17

for your partners executive functions which

27:19

makes no sense and then beyond

27:21

that if you are more

27:23

hyperactive impulsive, well society doesn't really like women

27:26

like that. They don't like women that speak

27:28

their mind, they don't like women that say

27:30

no I don't want to do it that

27:32

way, they don't like women that are loud,

27:35

right? And opinionated and you know most of

27:37

us with hyperactive impulsive type ADHD can be

27:39

like that. So supposed to be neater, you

27:41

know our desks at school are supposed to

27:44

be neater, we're supposed to have better handwriting

27:46

and all of that it's just a bunch

27:48

of BS and it's all come up around

27:51

you know the social construct of education and

27:53

then just how we live our

27:55

lives as far as with in

27:57

partnerships with marriage and it's all because

27:59

of that and we have the choice to say,

28:02

I'm not like that

28:05

and I don't need to be like that. What

28:07

I can do, we know the ADHD brain

28:09

is a brain of interest, what I can

28:11

do is focus on what I'm really interested

28:14

in and then I can get

28:16

help with the stuff

28:18

that I'm not so good at like maybe

28:20

paying bills or maybe keeping a house clean

28:22

or getting dinner on the table because that's

28:25

not our role just by virtue of the fact

28:27

that we were born with a uterus. Your

28:30

partner can help you get dinner on the table

28:32

or they can like in my household, they can

28:34

get dinner on the table and then you do

28:37

the other things that you do much better. So

28:40

I think part of the reason why even clinicians

28:44

don't understand ADHD, it's getting

28:46

better. ADHD with women in

28:48

women is that twice the

28:50

amount of women have an

28:52

attentive ADHD than men and

28:55

so that can look less like

28:57

the hyperactive impulsive types which

28:59

is the boys annoying type and

29:01

girls are like that too but

29:03

they tend to internalize their symptoms

29:05

much more than boys do. And

29:08

so because boys are annoying to

29:10

everyone around them, they get the

29:12

attention, they get the diagnoses versus

29:14

girls even when they're hyperactive

29:17

impulsive, they tend to be more

29:19

hyperactive impulsive around like their speech,

29:21

right? They talk a lot. I've

29:24

been on a couple of podcasts where the women

29:26

have said, oh, I was constantly in

29:28

the hallway. They're constantly getting moved. I

29:30

used to always hear that Tracy would

29:32

be a much better student if she'd

29:34

not disturb her neighbors. That's

29:38

how we are. We're really exuberant. We

29:40

can be when we're hyperactive impulsive exuberant,

29:42

we get into trouble but it's not

29:44

the same kind of trouble. It's more,

29:46

you know, a lot of us do

29:49

well in school and so they're

29:51

not worried about us school-wise. It's more

29:53

just, you know, we're disruptive. The

29:56

thing is though, if girls tend to internalize their

29:58

symptoms more and more, they're not and beat

30:00

themselves up about them. And boys

30:02

externalize, they get into trouble, they

30:04

get in fights, they're just problems.

30:07

What happens with girls is ultimately they

30:09

end up being diagnosed with anxiety and

30:12

depression, which may be comorbid,

30:14

they may have both, but often

30:17

if you treat the

30:19

ADHD, the anxiety and depression

30:21

goes away. So even with the good girls

30:23

who are doing well in school, they're always

30:25

kind of in their heads kind of struggling

30:27

to keep up because why am

30:29

I so disorganized? Why do I have to

30:32

work harder than everybody? I had

30:34

literally sold myself a bill of goods that

30:36

I was an excellent student. I

30:38

was a good student, but the

30:41

amount of work that I had

30:43

to do compared to other people,

30:45

my peers, other students, was

30:47

insane. I mean,

30:49

I remember all the work,

30:52

because it wasn't enough to just read it, whatever.

30:54

I'm thinking a law school to read the

30:56

case law. I had to underline it. And

30:59

then I had to highlight it. I had to write

31:01

notes in the margin, so I would read it like

31:03

three times. Then I had to put it in a

31:05

notebook. Then I had to tab the notebook and then

31:08

do the highlight underline in the notebook. And then from

31:10

the notebook, I would finish studying with that. I would

31:12

go to three by five cards. And then from the

31:14

three by five cards, I would go to one sheet

31:16

of paper. So I had

31:18

the most amazing notes. So everybody wanted

31:20

to use my notes. They would

31:22

take the notes the night before, and they would get a better

31:24

grade than I did. I

31:27

knew it, but, you know,

31:29

working memory issues and just focus

31:31

and... Yeah. Okay.

31:33

So they're diagnosed with anxiety

31:35

and depression and often mismedicated

31:37

too, right? And a

31:40

lot of the medications for anxiety and depression

31:42

can make the symptoms of ADHD worse, more

31:45

unfocused, more all over the place. Girls

31:48

are also diagnosed later. So boys tend to

31:50

be, like you see the symptoms, seven to

31:52

nine years old. With girls, it

31:54

tends to be at puberty. Why?

31:57

Because estrogen modulates dopamine.

32:00

And of course, there were no studies on

32:02

girls. All the studies were done on prepubescent

32:04

boys, right? So we

32:06

didn't even know that hormones

32:09

play a role in all of this. And

32:12

I mean, puberty, if you think about it, that's

32:14

probably the hardest time in a girl's life anyway,

32:16

right? And so all of a sudden,

32:19

like me, I had such

32:21

amazing working memory. I mean, I didn't just

32:23

do the plays, you know, I wasn't just

32:25

the lead in the plays in English-speaking plays,

32:28

but also German-speaking plays.

32:31

And all of a sudden, when I turned 13, I couldn't

32:34

even remember the chorus of a song. And

32:37

so that working memory that was so

32:39

brilliant before, like it was almost photographic,

32:42

it was gone, and I had to

32:44

figure different ways, different systems. And

32:46

then junior high school is so hard anyway.

32:48

So what I relied on was my intelligence,

32:50

and I was like, what happened to it?

32:53

I'm a fraud. I'm fake. And

32:55

that went into high school

32:58

and then college. And

33:01

you see these things, these big things that

33:03

you do so well. But

33:06

in the back of your mind, it's all of

33:08

the little things that aren't related to interest that

33:11

I really struggled with. And so

33:14

you're just always thinking, well, what if they

33:16

find out? And you're just

33:18

working and working and working so that nobody

33:20

will know. And so

33:22

it's no surprise that you end up

33:24

with perfectionism and imposter

33:27

complex and always asking like, well,

33:29

yeah, I'm smart, I'm successful, I've

33:31

done these things, but I

33:33

could do so much more. It

33:35

is interesting how we

33:38

can get stuck looking

33:40

at our insufficiency,

33:42

our areas where

33:44

we're not so great at

33:47

stuff, but that can become the

33:49

entire picture. And

33:52

I try to help

33:54

people to really refocus on

33:57

possibilities, on potential, on the

33:59

start. strengths as you do. And it's such

34:02

beautiful work because it makes so

34:04

much sense from the outsider

34:06

perspective. But when we're the being

34:10

struggling to be our best

34:12

selves, sometimes we go the wrong

34:14

direction. Sometimes we think, oh,

34:16

it would be better to hide out while I

34:20

sort all this stuff through and try to

34:22

figure out these words and how to speak

34:24

in public and how

34:26

to remember this complicated case

34:28

law. But we're

34:30

missing so many brains in

34:33

our communities. We're missing so many

34:35

wonderful voices. We're missing so much

34:37

talent when we have

34:39

a whole section of our population

34:41

hiding out, fearing that

34:44

they're going to be found out

34:46

when really we're all brilliant minds.

34:48

We are all so gifted and

34:50

we are all just ready to

34:52

shine. And I'm just

34:54

so grateful that you have done

34:56

your work. You have completed this

34:59

beautiful book that really

35:01

is a primer in how

35:04

to make yourself shine.

35:06

It's how to get those work

35:08

arounds. It's how to understand what

35:11

has gone on in

35:13

your life symptom wise and

35:15

perception wise and schooling wise

35:18

and medication wise and body

35:20

image wise. Everything is

35:22

covered in this book. I promise you,

35:25

I was just amazed at how many different

35:27

important subject areas there were covered in

35:30

the book. And then

35:32

it's all connected, right? Because we're

35:34

all complicated and because we all

35:36

are affected by body image, how

35:39

people see us, our

35:41

schooling, how we adjust, how

35:43

our working memory is. So

35:46

I think you've done just a

35:48

masterful piece of work. And I

35:50

can totally understand how this

35:52

has been noted as a

35:54

great self-help book as well.

35:57

I think it's going to fill a lot

35:59

of different... buckets for people

36:01

if that's the right phrase because

36:04

it is so useful and there's

36:06

so much information and stories and

36:08

cases and your own stories from

36:10

your own life that I can

36:13

certainly relate to in there. So

36:16

I just wanted to say thank you again because

36:18

this was no easy task. This

36:21

was no easy two and a

36:23

half years for you and

36:25

I just wanted to say thank you. You're

36:28

welcome and they say

36:30

that writing a book is the

36:32

best self-development that you can ever

36:35

do and I will say that

36:37

is so true because I was uncomfortable

36:39

the whole time and

36:41

I always tell people you should be uncomfortable

36:44

every day because that means you're pushing yourself

36:46

and especially for us with ADHD brains, you

36:49

know, we struggle because, well, they don't know. Is

36:51

it our brains don't make enough dopamine or

36:54

is it how our brains process dopamine? That

36:56

is all about dopamine but guess what happens

36:58

when you step into the fear and you

37:00

get into action that fires

37:03

your dopamine and the more

37:05

you do and this is what most, you

37:07

know, hyperactive impulsive types have figured out if

37:09

you're in your area of interest and

37:11

you're constantly, you know, pushing yourself to

37:13

go a little bit further, you increase

37:17

your confidence and

37:19

so I think that is where the

37:21

statistic comes from. A lot of entrepreneurs,

37:23

right, the 43% that are

37:25

in excellent mental health because the more you

37:28

push yourself, the more you get out of

37:30

that comfort zone, two friggin years of being

37:32

out of my comfort zone, the

37:34

more you grow, right? And then you obviously

37:36

get more confident. Yes.

37:39

Now you're making

37:41

me think about the action step

37:43

piece of things and

37:45

I know that associated

37:47

with your book release and book launch,

37:49

you have lots of different ways for people

37:52

to get into action and to be

37:55

connected with You and to be more connected

37:57

with your community. Can You tell us a

37:59

few things? The of those pieces are all of

38:01

those pieces. Whatever. You feel a searing here because I

38:03

don't want people to miss the fact that this book

38:05

isn't. Just the hardcover and the

38:07

paperback. It's really like any spare.

38:10

I so glad. Yeah.

38:13

And. Hopefully it will start with the book so.

38:15

We're big picture thinkers, right?

38:18

You. Can't just this is a problem with school.

38:20

You kids as tell me, Study this if I

38:22

don't understand, what the hell do I have to

38:24

study that? If you sell me on that, I'm

38:26

not studying it. And. So what

38:29

I love about this book is you get

38:31

the big picture and then once you get

38:33

the big picture then you can build all

38:35

the systems and or in the book to

38:37

let you can build the systems into your

38:40

life that work. For you and that's the

38:42

key. We. All even if you

38:44

feel like you are the biggest miss. You.

38:47

Have Systems now. You've

38:50

just been told that they're not the right

38:52

system so you think you don't have systems?

38:54

But. You have systems and soaks.

38:57

It really comes back down

38:59

to. You. Need to become

39:01

more of you? You need to figure out. What

39:03

is a D H D mean? what is

39:05

really look like in the real world? Not

39:07

what they're telling us. And then

39:09

what does it look like for

39:12

your brain? specifically? And then

39:14

you build your systems around that,

39:16

because ultimately. I. Don't care what

39:18

anybody tells you, you are the expert on

39:20

you. Because. You. Are. The

39:23

only one who has that rudder inside

39:25

you, right? They can feel the positive

39:27

emotion. When you feel the positive emotion,

39:29

you know you're. Moving in the right direction.

39:31

Your. Doctors, your teachers, your parents, your

39:34

partner. They don't have that rudder.

39:36

only you habit. So.

39:39

Okay, You. Can go to.

39:42

And. Ever such a brilliant segue trustee.

39:44

Ah, and would I love about you

39:46

is. I will drone on forever

39:48

versus Christina. So measured, which is why I

39:50

thought she'd be so perfect for this. So.

39:53

You can go to order at

39:56

the back at a D H

39:58

D for smart women.com Forward/ That.

40:00

And if you go there you are

40:03

going to get bonuses so is. And

40:05

they're free obviously. So if you're thinking,

40:07

well, This sounds like me. Find.

40:10

Out. I. Have a bonus training

40:12

in there. With that I lead called.

40:15

What? Does a D H D look like in

40:17

women? I have another training

40:19

so we are. With.

40:22

Our interest driven brains. We are mission

40:24

driven people. We. Have to do

40:26

work that it's important to us. And.

40:28

My premises. If you are doing work

40:30

that you know just as menial cannon.

40:33

You're. Always gonna be terrible at that. You

40:35

know there is no intention behind it. There

40:37

is no interest. The. Problem is.

40:40

And you think, oh, I can't even

40:42

do that. I chain and be a

40:44

burris that Starbucks. I can't possibly be

40:46

a surgeon. B S You are meant

40:48

to be the Surge are not the

40:51

barrister and Mann is why you're struggling

40:53

so badly, right? So I have a

40:55

training in their cards. What? Do

40:57

I do with my life? That really connects

40:59

you to your values and your purpose and

41:01

who you are. There's. Another training

41:04

in their on sleep. Because.

41:06

Sleep. And. Exercise and

41:08

daylight. You. Know this because we

41:10

did that attitude weapon are together that all

41:13

is connected and it's related to your circadian

41:15

rhythm. And so if you feel like I

41:17

can get into bed at night like I'm

41:19

staying up way way too late, well start

41:21

with exercising first thing in the morning. And

41:23

exercise does not have to be this big

41:25

scary thing. It. Is literally just

41:27

moving your body. And. Exercise.

41:31

Is as effective as a course

41:33

of riddle and and prozac. Probably.

41:36

Sell off till. It's as effective

41:38

you know in terms of spiking

41:41

those neurotransmitters that makes you feel

41:43

good. So you can go to

41:45

a D H D for smart

41:47

women.com forward/but you can also follow

41:49

my podcast. I've had women tell

41:51

me that they started listening to

41:53

my podcast. And. a few

41:55

months later they're like i was a totally

41:57

different person it's like free therapist And

42:00

you can find that, of course, on all

42:02

the podcast platforms. And it

42:05

is also called ADHD for Smartass Women.

42:08

On Instagram, I'm at Tracy at

42:10

Super. Well, thank you,

42:12

Tracy, again, for really

42:15

digging deep into your

42:17

own strengths and really

42:20

going where your positive emotion

42:23

took you first for your family and then

42:25

for yourself. And

42:28

then for building

42:30

your business and

42:32

your mission. And now you're

42:34

reaching all the women who

42:37

are wondering for themselves, where

42:39

can they go next? And

42:41

it all started with you. So

42:44

thank you for birthing this book,

42:46

for going through the very hard

42:48

years. I can attest that Tracy, it

42:51

was not a cakewalk for Tracy, that

42:54

she really had to

42:56

do the deep work and had to

42:58

do the reflection and had

43:00

to do the writing hours and the

43:02

proofing hours and the audio

43:05

booking hours for us all. So

43:07

I wanted to say congratulations and thank you.

43:09

And I'm so happy for you. And

43:12

I'm so excited to see what this

43:14

creates for you and your community next.

43:18

Well, thank you, Christine. You

43:20

are one of my favorites. And so I

43:23

want you to tell people if they want

43:25

to know more about you and what you

43:27

do, where can they find you?

43:30

Thank you very much. I'm Dr. Christine

43:32

Lee. I am based in New York, like

43:34

Tracy said. And I

43:37

am all over the internet, as

43:39

is Tracy. I tend

43:42

to go by procrastination coach there.

43:44

I do have a podcast myself. It's

43:47

called Make Time for Success. And

43:49

a love of mine, just like Tracy's podcast,

43:51

is a big love of hers. And

43:55

I interviewed guests who have gone through

43:57

a Struggle. The

44:00

have come through on the other end

44:02

and I just really. Adore.

44:04

Each and every one of My guess Each and

44:07

every one of these stories. And sprinkled

44:09

in between these interview

44:11

episodes. I also. Provide.

44:14

A few inside said. I've come

44:16

up with myself from just a

44:18

history of being a psychologist, a

44:20

history of being it's or procrastination,

44:22

suffer and survivor and I just

44:24

wanted to make this body of

44:26

work for you guys as well.

44:29

Sister really hope you get out

44:31

of your own way. A little

44:33

bit if I can do that. my

44:35

my sense is satisfied often So thank

44:37

you for easy for having me be

44:39

on this so and for having me

44:41

along. For. This beautiful right of yours. Oh.

44:43

Okay, that's can all be in the show.

44:46

Notes: Cosine! Thank you so much.

44:48

Thank. You Tracy. So. That's what

44:50

I have for you for this week. If you

44:53

liked this episode, please let us know by leaving

44:55

a review. You. Know what? our bowl? We

44:57

need to change the conversation around A D H

44:59

D. By helping as many women

45:01

as we possibly can. Learn how

45:04

their A D H D brains work so the

45:06

to may discover. Their amazing steep. Think.

45:08

He's so much for listening to hear.

45:13

You been. Listening to Be A

45:15

D H D S in in. His

45:19

case, he has his hand join us

45:21

at a D H D for smart

45:24

men under him. Even more information in

45:26

my youth. S A D H D

45:28

said Canada and and and I did.

45:30

You eat Each detainee is a system

45:33

in A to. Get easier to

45:35

install in love with your father's

45:37

home.