0:01

I really encourage people to recognize, like,

0:03

if you feel like you wasted your

0:05

time, I don't think anything is a

0:07

waste of time, really, because you're developing

0:09

skills that you may use in really

0:11

unexpected and unique ways in the future.

0:20

Richard Branson, Michael

0:22

Phelps, Justin Timberlake,

0:25

James Carville. Wait a minute.

0:28

Where are the women? Greta

0:32

Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra

0:35

McDonald, Simone Biles.

0:39

That sounds like a list of highly successful

0:41

titans in a variety of industries.

0:44

They all have ADHD, but you don't hear

0:46

much about that now, do you? You

0:49

know what else you don't hear about? Are

0:51

the 43% of people with ADHD

0:53

who are in excellent mental health.

0:56

Why aren't we talking about them and what

0:58

they're doing right? I'm your

1:01

host, Tracy Atsuka, and that's exactly what

1:03

we do here. I'm a lawyer, not

1:05

a doctor, a lifelong student, and now

1:07

the author of my new book, ADHD

1:10

for Smart Ass

1:12

Women. I'm also a certified ADHD

1:14

coach, and the creator of

1:16

Your ADHD Brain is A-O-K, a

1:19

patented system that helps ADHD women

1:21

just like you get unstuck

1:23

and fall in love with their

1:25

brilliant brains. Here,

1:28

we embrace our too muchness and we

1:30

focus on our strengths. My

1:32

guests and I credit our ADHD

1:34

for some of our greatest gifts.

1:37

And to those who still think they're

1:39

too much, too impulsive, too scattered,

1:41

too disorganized, I

1:43

say no one ever made a

1:46

difference by being too little. Okay,

1:52

we're live. Ready Bear?

1:55

Get down. I have this golden

1:57

doodle who wants more treats. Anyway.

2:00

Hello, hello, hello. I am your

2:02

host, Tracy Atsuka. Thank you

2:04

so much for joining me here for ADHD

2:06

for Smartass Women. There is

2:08

still so much going on in book land,

2:11

so I hope you're okay with me continuing

2:13

to share these happenings. I

2:15

am so proud that we wrote a

2:17

book for women with ADHD that pushes

2:19

against the mainstream narrative because that's

2:21

what I do, right? That's what we

2:24

do. We challenge the status quo. And

2:26

so I'm tickled pink that we're getting recognition

2:28

for it. From Making CBS Mornings

2:31

with Sarah Gellman and her top five

2:33

books to boost productivity and thrive in

2:35

the new year, to Book Riot's

2:37

Top Self-Help Books for 2024, and we were just

2:40

included in there 25 of the

2:42

best self-improvement books to read in

2:44

2024, to Receiving Amazon's

2:46

Editor's Pick for Best Nonfiction,

2:49

our Publishers Weekly Review, and we

2:52

were just reviewed in the

2:55

New York Journal of Books, which

2:57

is the leading online-only book review

2:59

publication. And I honestly don't

3:02

know what they could have written that was better than

3:04

what they wrote. Well, they could

3:06

have said I walked on water, but then no one

3:08

would have continued reading. So I'm glad they didn't say

3:10

that. Regardless, all of this

3:12

is because of you, our listeners,

3:14

our amazing book team, and anyone

3:17

who's taken the time to purchase ADHD

3:19

for Smartass Women and review

3:21

it. Enough

3:24

about our book right now because I

3:26

want to introduce you to another brand

3:28

new book about ADHD that literally came

3:30

out a week after my book that's

3:33

just knocked it out of the park and

3:35

it's written by the wonderful Jessica McCabe. Look,

3:38

I've told several people that I interviewed Jessica

3:40

about her new ADHD book and they've all

3:43

said the same thing. Why

3:45

would you interview someone who has a

3:47

book that's coming out right after yours

3:49

on the same subject? Because

3:53

this isn't pie. There's

3:55

plenty to go around for everyone. And

3:58

if the goal truly is to change the life of the book, I'd love to hear from you. the

4:00

women with ADHD, then

4:02

it would seem that the more of us that

4:04

are talking about ADHD, well, the more

4:07

likely that will actually change lives,

4:10

right? It's the ripple effect and

4:12

we all come at the same subject in a

4:15

different way. My focus

4:17

is looking at successful women with ADHD

4:19

to see what are they doing right. Someone

4:22

else's focus may be, I don't know, looking

4:24

at kids. In a minute we're

4:26

gonna find out what Jessica's focus is. Regardless,

4:29

she deserves every success and has been

4:31

focused on ADHD almost twice as long

4:33

as I have. I

4:36

also included her in my book

4:38

and, by the way, she's also

4:40

the perfect example of how those

4:43

of us with ADHD, we often look 10 years

4:45

younger. I think it's the

4:47

curiosity, the childlike wonder that

4:49

Jessica has in spades. And

4:51

so, of course, for all

4:53

of these reasons, I am

4:55

just delighted to introduce you

4:57

to Jessica McCabe. Jessica

5:00

McCabe is the founder and

5:02

host of the award-winning channel

5:04

How to ADHD. After

5:06

being diagnosed with ADHD at age

5:09

12, Jessica struggled with a brain

5:11

she didn't understand, like losing important

5:13

items and having trouble with relationships.

5:15

Determined to understand her challenges, Jessica

5:18

reached out to experts, read articles,

5:20

and decided to share her findings

5:22

with others. In 2015, Jessica

5:25

launched her YouTube channel and has since

5:27

built a community of millions who follow

5:30

along as she uses up-to-date

5:32

research, consultations with mental health

5:34

professionals, and her own personal

5:36

experience to create fun educational

5:38

content to help people better understand

5:41

their unique brains and live more

5:43

fulfilled lives. In 2017,

5:45

Jessica gave a TED Talk

5:47

on her experience understanding her

5:49

brain, which has garnered almost

5:51

20 million views to date

5:53

and has inspired ADHD and neurodiversity

5:56

advocacy around the world. Jessica also

5:58

has a brand new book out

6:00

called, of course, How to

6:03

ADHD, an insider's guide to working with

6:05

your brain, not against it, with Rodeo

6:07

books that I'm sure she will tell

6:10

us all about. Welcome, Jessica. How are

6:12

you? And did I get all that

6:14

right? Thank you so much. Wow,

6:16

you made me sound really impressive. I did all of

6:18

those things. I don't remember that I did all of

6:20

those things. But yeah, yeah, that pretty

6:23

much covers it. Thank you. You

6:25

need to celebrate more deaths because you've

6:28

done so much. And

6:30

I just want and I know, I mean,

6:32

you know, people are probably thinking, wait a minute, she's

6:34

got a book coming out and she's got a book

6:36

coming out. But you know what, the pie

6:38

is always big enough. And I just want to tell

6:40

you, I hope you're

6:43

really proud of what you

6:45

what you created, because it

6:47

really is a doozy. I mean, there is so

6:50

much that you've been through. And there is so

6:52

much that you've learned. And

6:54

it's beautifully written. And you

6:56

pretty much bear it all. Thank you.

6:59

That means a lot coming from you. Yeah,

7:01

I am very proud. And I'm very surprised.

7:03

Actually, that I finished it. I've never finished

7:05

a long term project like that before. And

7:07

so when I set out, I was

7:09

like, it would be so great to have a

7:11

book that that combines everything that I've learned that

7:13

has helped me and gives people the experience that

7:15

they would have if they had what watch my

7:18

TEDx talk binge watch my channel hung out in

7:20

the comment section and read the experiences of other

7:22

people, and then sat down and had coffee with

7:24

me. And my editor was like, that sounds great.

7:26

Let's do it. And I was like, cool. Can

7:28

you can you give me some cops like some comparable like

7:31

so that I know we're on the same page with what

7:33

we're writing. And she says, sounds like you know what you're

7:35

doing. And I was like, shoot, because I really wanted her

7:37

to show me what this might look like. Because I was

7:39

like, this sounds like a great idea. I have no idea

7:41

how to how to actually pull it off. And so with

7:44

a lot of help, I'll actually did pull it off. And

7:46

I'm really proud of what I've written. And

7:48

grateful that you're that you're helping me get

7:50

the word out about it. Yeah, I

7:52

hope you're celebrating it all. One

7:55

of the things that I noticed is

7:57

your voice is so clear. It

8:00

sounds like your videos. Yeah,

8:03

I, uh, this probably because, you know, this is part

8:05

of the strengths that can come out of the weaknesses.

8:08

I second guessed myself a lot. And so there was

8:10

a lot of me reading what I wrote to other

8:12

people and like, what is this, you know, does this

8:14

sound okay? Does this sound okay? And I got, I

8:16

got used to reading it out loud to so many

8:18

people that it really did come out in

8:20

my voice. And if it didn't sound like it was in my

8:23

voice and I, then I tweaked it. I got a lot of

8:25

feedback on this, which again, you know, I

8:27

think it's really important for people to understand that

8:29

sometimes our strengths aren't pure strength. Sometimes

8:32

our strengths come out of an area of insecurity or

8:34

out of an area of weakness. Absolutely. The things that

8:36

we do to cope with that end up making us

8:38

really good at what we do. So

8:40

I have a question. I always go first to,

8:43

you know, let's talk about your ADHD diagnosis, but

8:45

I really want to ask you this because

8:47

after I read your book, I wondered

8:49

about it. Typically, what

8:52

we find is you're either really

8:54

good, you know, talking to people

8:56

on camera, the audio stuff, right?

8:59

And I don't even know if that's called the audio

9:01

stuff, but you know, versus there's other

9:04

people who are really good at the writing

9:07

part. And one of the

9:09

things or the thing that you do that

9:11

I've always been in awe of is

9:15

creating those videos, not so much getting

9:17

up there and speaking, because I do,

9:19

I can do a lot of that,

9:21

but it's the technical stuff behind it.

9:24

And how you organize, okay, we're going to

9:26

talk about this. And then you include all

9:28

the little prompts as you're going through it.

9:30

Like, how do you do that? How did

9:32

you know? Is this

9:34

not just an actual talent? No,

9:36

I had to. Again, I had to. So

9:38

when I first started recording videos for the

9:41

channel, I sat down and I

9:43

spoke it simultaneously to camera. And

9:45

then I went into the editing room and I tried to edit

9:47

it and it was a disaster. I was

9:49

all over the place. It was everywhere. And

9:51

so I was like, well, that's not going to work. So

9:54

then I started going, okay, maybe if somebody asks

9:56

me a question, I can stay a little bit

9:58

more on topic. you know, having

10:00

prompts of like, you know, this question,

10:02

what is this thing? Why does it

10:05

matter? You know, ask asking myself these questions,

10:07

and then I would still try and speak

10:09

extemporaneously. And that was better, but it was

10:11

still not great. And so what

10:13

I realized is I need to write scripts, I

10:15

need to actually script it out. And so now

10:17

I do vlogs and I can speak extemporaneously a

10:19

little bit better. But at the time, everything

10:22

that I put out on my channel was scripted,

10:24

because it was the only way I could stay

10:26

on topic. It was the only way I could

10:28

boil this information down in a way that that

10:30

wasn't meandering it all over the place. And

10:32

I really liked doing it. And what I

10:34

did was gave myself a framework, because I

10:36

would I would bring them this is my process, I

10:38

would bring them all of the ideas, right, like, we're

10:40

great divergent thinkers, we have tons of ideas, but bring

10:43

them anything I might want to include in an episode

10:45

on a piece of paper, or on

10:47

a Google Doc, whatever. And then

10:49

from there, I would write a terrible first draft,

10:51

and then I would write a better second draft,

10:53

and then I would write another draft, and then

10:55

I would polish it. And then I would record.

10:58

And I was going somewhere

11:00

with that. Hang on. I

11:03

got really excited, giving a really excited about what you're

11:05

about to say, and then completely forget what

11:08

it was ever like every single hour.

11:10

So you were talking

11:12

about how you were able to build

11:15

these videos. Yes. So then what helped

11:17

me when I went to go

11:19

write that first draft was I would outline after

11:21

I had all the ideas down, I could never

11:23

write from an outline, because I could never stick

11:25

to it, right. But if I got all of

11:27

my ideas out first, and then I outlined it,

11:29

then it was better. And so I had the

11:31

same outline for every video that I started with,

11:33

which is, what's the problem? You know,

11:36

what's going on with it, right? Introduce the problem,

11:38

explain the problem, introduce a solution or strategy, and

11:40

then explain the strategy. And every

11:42

single video fit in, you know, I

11:44

could fit my, my chaos into Yeah,

11:47

yeah. And I think that's so important when you have an

11:49

ADHD, when you have ADHD, whether you're trying

11:51

to write, whether you're trying to go about your

11:54

day, whatever it is you're trying to do to

11:56

have a basic, simple framework that is flexible enough

11:58

that you know, that you're all of your

12:01

you can fit into it, but

12:03

structured enough that it keeps you from going

12:05

completely off the rails. Absolutely. I

12:07

can relate to all of it.

12:13

Let's talk about your ADHD

12:15

diagnoses. What were the

12:17

circumstances? As

12:19

I mentioned in your bio, you were

12:21

pretty young certainly for a girl at

12:24

that time, you were 12 years old. Can

12:26

you tell us about it? I

12:28

was. I was very fortunate to be diagnosed

12:31

fairly early for that period of

12:33

time. As a

12:35

female, especially as a gifted female, I'm

12:38

twice exceptional. The

12:40

reason why I got diagnosed was because a

12:42

boy in my family got diagnosed. He

12:44

fit that stereotypical bouncing off the walls,

12:47

getting into trouble, the ADHD stereotype, the

12:49

Bart Simpson type, and he

12:51

went to get diagnosed. My aunt took him to

12:53

get diagnosed. Her doctor

12:55

was very ahead of the times too and looked

12:57

at the kid, diagnosed

13:01

him really quick. But

13:04

then he looked at my aunt and he said,

13:06

okay, let's talk about you. She was like, what

13:08

about me? He ran her through the evaluation too

13:10

and it turned out she was diagnosed with

13:12

ADD at the time. I

13:16

always had a huge bond to her. She

13:20

was my favorite aunt. She loved books. I love

13:22

books. She was smart. I was smart. She was

13:24

scattered. I was scattered. I really had kinship with

13:26

her. At the time, my mom looked

13:28

at me and was like, you're a lot like your

13:30

aunt. Maybe we should get you checked out. She

13:34

took me and my pediatrician and

13:36

he asked her a few basic screening questions.

13:39

One of them was, how did she do in school? Because

13:42

that's what we look at, right? How did she do in school? My

13:44

mom, I was 12 at the time, so we really

13:47

had elementary school to go off of. In

13:49

seventh grade, I'd completely fallen apart, but he said,

13:51

how did she do in elementary school? My mom

13:53

said, great, she got straight A's, she's a gifted

13:55

student and he said, she can't have

13:58

ADHD. She's too smart. And

14:00

my mom, who not

14:03

only had this information that ADHD is genetic and

14:05

my aunt had it, I was a lot like

14:07

my aunt, my mom recognized these things, but my

14:09

mom was also a special education

14:13

teacher. And so she knew a

14:15

bit more than most too, and she knew how to advocate

14:17

for her kids. And so she said, thank

14:19

you for your opinion. I'd like to see a specialist.

14:22

And so I went to a specialist and they

14:24

did a bunch of tests to rule out other things. I

14:26

remember having like electrodes on my brain. They were checking for

14:28

brain damage, they were checking for all these different things. And

14:32

eventually, yeah, sure enough, I was diagnosed with ADD.

14:36

And so how did you feel when

14:39

you were diagnosed? Was it something that

14:41

you were ashamed of? Or was

14:44

it, I understand now,

14:46

or there just wasn't enough information. And you

14:48

talk about that in your book, huh? There

14:50

wasn't enough information. All I knew was,

14:53

all I knew was my aunt had been diagnosed with this

14:55

thing. Now I was diagnosed with this thing. So I was

14:57

like, yes, I got to join

14:59

this cool club. I had so much trouble

15:01

socially and fitting in. And I had just

15:03

gotten transferred to a new school. And

15:06

I didn't have a tether. I didn't have a sense of belonging.

15:08

I didn't have a sense of who I

15:10

was even at that point. And so this gave

15:12

me that tether. This gave me that sense of

15:14

belonging. Like, oh, my cool aunt

15:17

has this thing. I have this thing. I'm

15:19

in this cool club. Right. And,

15:21

you know, as far as I knew, it

15:24

was just a matter of you get distracted,

15:26

right? And then there's this medication that helps

15:28

you focus. Well, cool.

15:31

I started taking that medication

15:33

and it was incredible.

15:36

It was like night and day, like

15:38

putting on glasses for the first time and

15:40

realizing, wow, I could focus and going, is

15:42

this what it's like for everybody else? And

15:45

suddenly my GPA, which I'd been struggling

15:47

with in middle school because, you

15:50

know, more demands on my executive function, right? I'm expected

15:52

to remember my locker combination. I'm expected to remember to

15:54

bring my own books to class. And, you know, there

15:56

was a lot more demand on my executive function. And

15:58

I also had a lot less. less support than I

16:00

used to as well, because I was

16:03

at a different school, the teachers didn't know me,

16:05

there were bigger class sizes now, and my mom

16:07

was incapacitated at the time. She had

16:09

gotten in a really bad accident with a drunk

16:11

driver and wasn't able to do all

16:13

of the things that she was used

16:15

to doing to support me. And so I was really

16:18

a mess, but I started taking

16:20

that medication and my

16:22

GPA went up a full point without me doing

16:24

anything differently. It was like the effort I was

16:26

already putting in suddenly worked. To

16:29

me there were no downsides. It was just like,

16:32

oh, okay, I have this cool thing that makes

16:34

me special, like my aunt, and then I take

16:36

this medication that helps with the one struggle that

16:39

I face and problem solve. I

16:42

thought that was the end of the story. Yeah,

16:44

it was not. Spoilers, it was not. Did

16:47

you know any other girls that had ADHD? I

16:51

didn't know anybody else who had ADHD. Maybe

16:54

they did, but it wasn't something that was talked

16:56

about at the time. I thought it was this

16:58

really unique thing to me that,

17:01

yeah, okay, like Lynn and my family, I guess,

17:03

but I didn't know anybody else who had it.

17:05

I didn't know anybody who talked about it. In

17:08

retrospect, I probably gravitated toward other

17:11

people who were neurodivergent, but I didn't know

17:13

that at the time. But I

17:15

wasn't ashamed of it. I would tell anybody, oh yeah,

17:17

I have ADD. I was diagnosed with this thing called

17:19

ADD. Yeah, these are my meds. It was

17:21

not a big deal to me. It

17:24

was more like a personality trait or like a

17:26

fun quirk, I think, to me at the time.

17:29

So you have to tell the story about

17:31

the ducks in the high school? What?

17:35

Yeah, so... I could totally see it.

17:38

Like when I'm reading it, I could see it. Yeah,

17:43

there were times when I... Well, okay, there were a lot

17:45

of times when I didn't do my homework. But

17:48

then there were times where I was excited about an assignment. I

17:50

had an assignment in English class, in I

17:52

think it was ninth grade English class. And

17:55

I don't remember what the assignment was, but

17:57

this was English class. And I remember thinking...

18:00

to do this essay that

18:02

I've been assigned, I

18:04

need to raise some

18:06

ducks. Like I need to go to a duck farm and

18:08

buy some eggs, get an incubator, incubate

18:10

these eggs, help these ducks

18:12

hatch, and teach them how to

18:14

swim in my bathtub. Like I need to raise ducks so

18:16

that I can write this paper. And you didn't live in

18:19

the country. No, I

18:21

did not live in the country. I was in the suburbs of LA. It

18:24

made no sense. But my mom was always

18:26

really supportive of me trying whatever venture I

18:29

seemed interested in at the time, God bless

18:31

her. And so she was

18:33

like, okay, we'll raise some ducks. So

18:36

I did. So we went to a duck farm, got

18:38

some eggs, I raised some ducks. And

18:40

I don't remember what everybody else was doing that

18:42

day at school, but I'm pretty sure I was

18:44

the only one who was walking around campus with

18:47

three ducklings in tow. So I turned to my

18:49

paper and I had my little ducks following

18:51

me around the campus all day. It was great.

18:55

Wait, did you have three of them? I

18:58

had three, yeah. Well, I think there were four, but three of

19:00

them hatched and I raised these little

19:02

ducklings. And so I had a little trail of ducklings

19:04

following me all around the school. It was one of the

19:06

best days of my life. It was great. Well,

19:10

I live in the country. We have

19:12

lots of ducks. Have I ever raised

19:15

a duck? I don't think so, but I've raised a lot

19:17

of chickens. And we have

19:19

chickens too. The idea of them

19:21

walking, like even getting to school, like

19:23

people don't understand, they're pooping all over

19:25

the place, right? They

19:27

poop, they run. No,

19:30

but I was their mom. I was their mom

19:32

because I had raised them from the time

19:34

that they had brought them out of school. So

19:36

they thought I was their mom. So yeah, they followed me all

19:39

around the school. And then yeah, I brought them

19:41

home and then they did, they pooped a lot, they pooped a

19:43

lot. And at some point my parents were like, okay, we do

19:45

not live in the country, but we know people who do. Who

19:49

have a bunch of these ducks, right? And

19:51

so I ended up, you know, they

19:54

moved to a farm upstate. So yeah, we had

19:56

somebody who did have a farm who took.

20:00

the ducks in. But it was it

20:02

was such a fun project. And I'm

20:04

so grateful that my mom always encouraged

20:06

me to follow my passions, even when

20:08

they objectively made no sense to anybody

20:10

else. No, I mean, that's

20:12

what I truly got from your book is

20:15

how wonderful your mom was. But

20:17

also, you were beating yourself

20:20

up a lot. But you were a really

20:22

wonderful daughter. God,

20:24

I didn't feel like it. And isn't that

20:27

it's so easy to focus on the places

20:29

where we're falling short, right? Like, well,

20:31

you know, a good daughter doesn't, you

20:33

know, make it so her mom has to

20:36

wake her up five times in the morning because I

20:38

was dead to the world or in a good daughter

20:40

keeps a room clean or a good daughter does her

20:42

homework without having to be reminded 17 times,

20:44

right? I was aware of all the ways in which

20:46

I was making my mom's life harder. And it

20:49

was extra hard because I knew that she'd been

20:51

in this accident. And she was born with a

20:53

physical disability. She had one leg shorter than the

20:55

other. And they tried to do a lot

20:57

of things to fix it, but they didn't really know what

20:59

they were doing at the time. So that kind of made

21:01

things worse. And then on top of that, she was in

21:03

this horrible accident and her back was broken in a way

21:05

that would never heal. And so I

21:08

had this mom, I was in this unique position

21:10

to have this mom with a physical disability who

21:12

was in chronic pain. And I

21:14

was just scattered, right? Like, so what was wrong

21:16

with me that I couldn't, you know, I not

21:18

only couldn't make her life easier in the ways

21:20

I would have liked to, but I couldn't even

21:22

take care of myself. She ended up having to

21:24

do a lot more for me than I thought

21:26

she should. And there were times

21:28

even as an adult where she would come over

21:31

and help me clean out my car, help me

21:33

clean my house. And I would watch her walking

21:35

around on crutches doing these things

21:37

for me. And I would feel so deeply

21:39

ashamed that, you know,

21:41

I knew what it would look like from the

21:43

outside, right? Like I was this young, perfectly able-bodied

21:46

person. And here is my mom in chronic

21:48

pain on crutches doing things that I should have

21:50

been able to do myself. And

21:52

it was so deeply embarrassing

21:56

for me that it was hard

21:58

to feel like I was a good daughter, right? Like,

22:00

at the very least, I could, you know, I could be

22:03

so sufficient and not make her life harder. But here I

22:05

was, you know, not only not being able to do enough

22:07

for her, but I wasn't even able to take care of

22:09

myself. And so you know,

22:11

after that, you were doing the

22:13

important things for your mom. I mean,

22:15

clearly, she knew you cared about her,

22:18

you adored her, and you

22:20

were trying. And I

22:23

hope that by the time you finished the

22:25

book, and you read it through again, you

22:27

realized that I was a really good

22:29

daughter, and I was doing my best. You

22:31

know, I didn't. But you

22:33

still not feel that way. You're

22:35

helping me shift that perspective a little bit.

22:38

Because I did, you know, after my dad

22:40

died, I tried to step in and, you

22:43

know, help her in the ways that he used to do.

22:45

And, you know, I tried to be there for her.

22:47

And I took her on little trips and bought her

22:50

jewelry for her birthday. And there's a lot that I

22:52

did do. But like a lot of women with ADHD,

22:54

I was frustrated

22:56

with myself for not being able to do it consistently.

22:59

Right? Like, I went to massage

23:01

therapy school and learned how to give massages as

23:03

you know, partly so that I could help her

23:06

with her chronic pain. But then I

23:08

felt guilty because like, some days I just didn't want to

23:10

give her a massage, right? Like I'm like, Oh, I could

23:12

give her a massage, or I could go do this thing

23:14

that I wanted to do. And I would

23:16

feel selfish not doing more. And I think

23:18

that's just it's such a common thing

23:21

that we deal with as women with ADHD is

23:23

feeling like, like we're capable of doing

23:25

this. So why aren't we doing it more? Why

23:28

aren't we doing consistency, you know, consistently?

23:30

And it took me a long time

23:32

to realize and it's one of the most powerful things that

23:34

I realized is understanding that that

23:36

inconsistency, that doesn't mean that we don't have

23:38

ADHD. It doesn't mean that we don't struggle.

23:40

It is the struggle, right? And if you

23:43

think of your ADHD as a disability, it

23:45

is the disability. It's not that like, Oh,

23:47

I don't have a disability because like, I'm

23:49

perfectly capable of doing this. Sometimes. No, that's

23:51

that is the struggle, right? That is, that

23:53

is the ADHD. It's that inconsistency. Do

23:56

you think part of it though, too, Jess, is

23:58

the empathy, you know, We tend

24:00

to have so much more empathy and so

24:03

you're constantly thinking about all these things you

24:05

could have done Instead of focusing on all

24:07

the things you did do and clearly your

24:09

mom loved you. She wanted to be around

24:12

you I mean you went to massage school

24:14

because you were worried about your mom, right?

24:16

Yeah. Yeah well, and that's the

24:18

thing like the empathy is such an interesting thing

24:20

with ADHD because Sometimes we can

24:23

struggle with empathy in certain ways But then some

24:25

people are so empathic that it actually can get

24:27

in the way so there are some

24:29

times where you know where I've been in relationships

24:31

where I've enabled somebody or I've You

24:34

know about I've had a hard time being

24:36

present for them because my own emotions Coming

24:38

up about what they're going through are so

24:40

strong that I can't really be present enough

24:42

to hear their experience or what they need

24:45

So the empathy it's yes, it can

24:47

be really strong But it can be

24:49

just regulated just like our our emotions

24:51

in general just like our attention can

24:53

be or whatever Empathy yeah,

24:55

but I think we do we feel so

24:58

deeply and we care so much And

25:01

if there's anything there's anybody listening who

25:03

is wondering, you know if their partner

25:05

really cares about them Yeah, we do

25:07

we care so much. It just doesn't

25:09

always translate into actions Yeah,

25:11

yeah Okay, I'm gonna ask you

25:13

about the book I promise although we've been talking

25:16

about it as we as we go through all

25:18

this but as I was reading I was really

25:20

curious About so you were an actress and

25:23

I remember when I was a teenager

25:26

My father used to tell me that I was

25:28

he didn't use the term melodramatic But it was

25:30

like melodramatic And he was probably right because I

25:33

had boyfriends tell me that too and I didn't

25:35

know what it was and I had to look

25:37

It up, you know, and I

25:39

remember him one time telling me, you know what and

25:42

and he was serious He said you should

25:44

be a soap opera star and I remember

25:46

thinking I would love to

25:48

be a soap opera star But I

25:50

could never remember the lines there would

25:53

just be no way you

25:55

were an actress How did you do

25:57

this or do you not struggle with

25:59

working memory the way? I do. Oh,

26:01

no working memory is as my report

26:04

delightfully understates a relative area of weakness

26:06

for me My

26:09

verbal comprehension is incredible but

26:12

my working memory is awful and

26:14

so memorizing lines with The

26:17

pain of my existence I would try so

26:19

hard and so long to memorize lines and

26:21

I would still show up and Not

26:24

have any idea what I was gonna be saying and a

26:26

lot of times You know that combined

26:28

with the salt to steam issues that can come along

26:30

with ADHD I would go into the room and give

26:32

a performance that basically said I'm sorry for wasting your

26:35

time But I

26:37

did get really good at cold reading So glancing down

26:39

at the script and looking up and delivering lines I

26:41

got really good at that because I kind of had

26:43

to and so when I started You

26:46

know with my with my channel and doing scripts

26:49

Instead of like I gave up on the idea of

26:51

memorizing real quick like real quick because it was such

26:53

a tight turnaround I you know as soon as it

26:55

was written I needed to shoot the next day there

26:57

is no way I was gonna memorize this just no

26:59

way so I printed

27:02

everything out in 30-point font and

27:06

pages on a whiteboard that I got

27:08

a staples and I would just

27:10

Glance down at the lines and look up at camera and

27:12

say them and I glanced down at the line and look

27:14

up camera And say them and we would just edit that

27:16

out. So the reason my videos punch around so much. Oh

27:19

Is to hide that me

27:21

looking down at the lines and looking up at camera and

27:24

I think that's one of the great things

27:26

about people understanding the ADHD brains work differently

27:28

now is Understanding that the way that we

27:31

are going to accomplish the same results might

27:33

look a little different Because we have to

27:35

navigate around these challenges, right? But we can

27:37

lean into these strengths many of which are

27:39

because of the ADHD But many of which

27:42

we've developed as a result of having ADHD

27:44

I got so good at cold reading because I

27:47

couldn't memorize lines But now I'm really good at

27:49

it, right? And so when left to our

27:51

own devices I feel like we're really good at

27:53

finding the ways to get the thing done

27:56

It's when we have to do them in the

27:58

way that other people expect us to do that becomes

28:00

an issue. I was recording

28:02

a video, this was before ADHD, and

28:04

I remember I had this young

28:06

Stanford videographer. He had just graduated

28:09

from Stanford, and he was clearly

28:11

brilliant, right? And he refused to let

28:13

me use a teleprompter. And I told him,

28:15

I am really good on a teleprompter. You

28:18

won't even know I'm on a teleprompter. He's

28:20

like, no, it won't come across naturally or

28:22

as natural. So what he made

28:24

me do, and I don't know, he was like, probably

28:26

23 years old. I'm not sure why I didn't just

28:28

tell him stop, I'm paying for this, we're doing it

28:31

my way. But he would read me a line, and

28:33

then I would have to read it back. And

28:35

I literally I couldn't even read one line

28:38

back, like I couldn't do it. And

28:40

I was so embarrassed and

28:42

mortified and then really irritated because I'm like,

28:45

I paid for this, I'm going to do

28:47

it my way. And so the video came

28:49

back. And you could just tell where he

28:52

had to do all this cutting, because I

28:54

was so bad versus if you give me

28:56

a teleprompter, I'm totally comfortable. And I'm great.

28:59

But you're right, it's because

29:02

we're not doing it their way, right? Then

29:04

we feel like oh, we're cheating. Yeah,

29:07

yeah. And it's to me, it's the difference between

29:09

like, if you have a PC or Mac computer,

29:11

and somebody's giving you the manual for a PC,

29:13

and they're like, use these commands. And you're like,

29:15

I don't work for my system. Well, but that's

29:17

how you do it. And if you do this

29:19

other thing, then it's not gonna work. Well, okay,

29:21

but you're on a different system than I am.

29:24

So on my system, this is how it

29:26

works, right? And I wish that people would

29:28

trust us a little bit more and try

29:30

it our way first, you know, if if

29:32

you tried the teleprompter and it wasn't working,

29:34

then okay, try something else. But if you

29:36

know what's gonna work for you, I wish

29:39

people would believe that. Don't

29:42

get talked out of it by some pissy

29:44

little, you know, 23 year old Stanford, I

29:46

think it was an MBA. Yeah.

29:50

I think you would be amazing on a soap

29:53

opera. I'm just gonna put it out there. Like,

29:55

I think that I would watch that soap opera

29:57

so hard. Oh, my

29:59

God, you're so cute. What

30:01

I want to say though too is,

30:03

you know, when we talk about ADHD

30:05

and trauma, I am sorry, but being

30:07

an actress and

30:09

struggling with all these things is

30:12

trauma alone. Like I can't

30:14

even imagine, you know, they just you've got

30:17

to show up at a moment's notice, you're

30:19

supposed to always look good. They're talking about

30:21

how you physically look, your memory like is

30:23

bad. I just can't even imagine a worse

30:26

trauma than that. It was

30:28

a bad fit. Now, in retrospect, the

30:30

one the one aspect that was a good

30:32

fit, and I think you kind of touched

30:34

on it with the soap opera star thing

30:36

and the melodramatic is we do feel things

30:39

so deeply and we can be so present

30:41

and in the moment and good at connecting

30:43

with other people that there were some incredible

30:45

performances sometimes that that people could get out

30:47

of me because I could feel so deeply

30:50

and I and I'm used to being vulnerable

30:52

and you know and there is something unique

30:54

about me that I bring to the table

30:56

but yeah, that having to sit still

30:58

or stand still and memorize your lines and look

31:00

a certain way and be a certain way. It

31:02

was really interesting because I was getting it from

31:05

both sides of getting from society. This is what

31:07

you're supposed to be like you're supposed to show

31:09

up on time and and you know be neurotypical

31:11

meet these neurotypical standards be consistent, you know, in

31:13

the workplace be consistent show up on time be

31:16

professional meaning don't have feelings

31:19

or don't show them and then on the flip side it

31:21

was okay but as an actress you have to look this

31:23

certain way you have to be this certain way you have

31:25

to fit into this box so I was trying to cram

31:27

myself into two boxes that I really really

31:30

didn't fit in and there was

31:32

some trauma around that and I'm you

31:34

know I developed disordered eating because it

31:37

you know it was I would get yelled

31:39

at for eating a bagel and then the stress

31:41

of having to memorize my lines and having to

31:43

be a certain way and having to look a

31:45

certain way it was really stressful and the only

31:47

thing that I knew to do to cope with

31:49

my stress was to eat and

31:51

so the more you know berated I

31:53

was for these things the more I would like secretly

31:56

like binge essentially and then I would

31:58

have to diet and and go to

32:00

extreme lengths with my exercise and stuff to try

32:02

and combat that. And it was really

32:04

tough, but it took me a long time to undo some

32:07

of these messages of this is what you're supposed to look

32:09

like, this is how you're supposed to be in the world,

32:11

and start to figure out who I was

32:13

on my own. Because

32:15

from a pretty early age, I was taught that

32:18

who I was and how I was was wrong. But

32:21

that I had potential, right? Like I had the potential

32:23

to see what everyone else wanted me to

32:25

be. And it was this close all the time and I

32:27

just couldn't get there. It was really tough.

32:30

Yeah, and I think that's a big one, right?

32:32

That unexplained underachievement. And it may be that people

32:34

from the outside look at you and say, oh

32:37

my God, she's all together, she's perfect. But

32:39

it can also be what you're telling yourself

32:41

in your head that it's just never good

32:43

enough because of exactly what you said. You

32:45

never know when that reliable brain is gonna

32:47

show up and when it's wrong. Yeah,

32:50

so yeah, exactly. No, exactly. And

32:52

the closest I got to being really successful as

32:54

an actress, I did get my sad card. I

32:56

was in the union and I had- You

32:59

still get health insurance from them. I understand

33:02

that the health insurance, being part

33:04

of that union is amazing. Only

33:06

if you work. If

33:08

you get enough jobs, it's not just being in the

33:10

union, you have to work regularly to be able to-

33:13

A certain amount of time. Call them out of insurance.

33:15

Yeah, you have to get a certain amount of jobs,

33:17

make a certain amount of money every year to qualify for

33:19

the health insurance. Are you sure? Because I just heard,

33:21

I can't remember his name, but one of these news

33:24

people, and he was saying he was in one thing,

33:26

he was in West Wing. And

33:28

now he doesn't take his MSNBC

33:31

health insurance because the SAG insurance is so

33:34

good. Are you sure?

33:36

Was he a regular on that show? Because

33:38

then his residuals might be behind him. No,

33:40

you know what? It was Lawrence O'Donnell. I

33:43

mean, I can look into it. It was that way at

33:45

the time. If I should be

33:48

getting free health insurance and good health insurance, I

33:50

should look into this. But in true

33:52

ADHD fashion, I don't remember the last time I paid my dues

33:55

because I stopped, you know what I mean? So

33:58

many times in my life, I put so much. effort and energy

34:00

into something and then I just didn't keep

34:03

up with it. So like I didn't finish

34:05

my massage school training. I didn't, you know, I

34:07

didn't, I am in the

34:09

union, but I haven't paid my dues and I don't

34:12

know how long. So I don't know if I've been

34:14

kicked out like I'm afraid to look. There's so many,

34:16

there's so many things where I just put so much

34:18

effort into something and then kind of abandoned it. So

34:20

I'll look into that. It's probably

34:22

because it was the wrong thing versus look

34:24

at what you've done with how

34:26

to ADHD, right? It was just everything

34:28

lined up and I'm sure all your

34:31

past experiences kind of helped you get

34:33

there. It did. And that's what

34:35

I try to tell people a lot of the time, like it

34:37

can feel like a waste of time because you, you know, you

34:39

try this and then that doesn't work out and you try this

34:41

and that doesn't work out. But what ends up happening is you

34:44

end up being this kind of bumblebee, like you

34:46

go from flower to flower, it's pollinating and then

34:49

you, you come, you come back and, and it's

34:51

this really valuable thing. You have all

34:53

of these different experiences from all of

34:55

these different ventures that, you know, failed

34:58

ventures, right? But, but all of

35:00

those shape what you have to bring to the

35:02

venture you're currently doing. And I think it's so

35:04

valuable. If I hadn't taken all those

35:06

acting classes, I wouldn't be as good on camera. I

35:08

wouldn't know how to cold read. I wouldn't be as

35:11

good with a teleprompter. If I hadn't,

35:13

you know, if I hadn't waited tables

35:15

so much, I wouldn't know what it's like

35:17

to serve people and to make sure that

35:20

I can attend to their

35:22

needs and be really perceptive to, you know, even

35:24

the things they're not saying that they need, you

35:26

know, and I love that I have this kind

35:28

of server or servant mentality when it comes to

35:30

serving my community. It's not about me. It's what

35:32

am I bringing to my community and what do

35:34

they need? There were so many, so

35:37

many things that I did that helped

35:39

me even the massage therapy stuff. Like I am

35:41

so much more mindful than I used to be because

35:43

I am very present in my

35:45

body and I am present with when

35:47

I'm connecting with other people. All of

35:50

these things were valuable. So I really

35:52

encourage people to recognize like if you

35:54

feel like you wasted your time, I

35:56

don't think anything is a waste of

35:58

time really because you're developing skills

36:01

that you may use in really unexpected and

36:03

unique ways in the future. I

36:06

couldn't agree more. So Jess, you're

36:08

gonna have a baby. I

36:11

keep forgetting about that. How could

36:13

you forget? I'm so

36:15

jealous. It was like my favorite time

36:17

of my life. So let's

36:19

say this baby, you don't know if it's

36:21

a boy or girl, do you? I do.

36:24

I do know. I haven't, I haven't said

36:26

publicly, I've actually announcing it tomorrow. So I

36:28

can, I can tell you. Yeah. It's

36:30

a little girl. Okay.

36:33

So let's say she's just like you.

36:36

Yeah. I'm prepared

36:39

differently for my daughter. Yeah,

36:41

I would do a lot of the things that my

36:44

mom did. My mom kind of intuitively did a lot

36:46

of things like have a, have a launch pad by

36:48

the door and you know, have a structured time where

36:50

you come home, you have a snack and your homework,

36:52

you know, there was, there was a lot of structure

36:54

and routine and, and stuff that she kind of provided

36:56

me intuitively as well as encouraging the

36:58

different interests. Right. You know, if I wanted to

37:00

play flute, she's like, cool, you know, we'll give

37:02

you flute lessons. I wanted to play piano and

37:04

I did that for a little bit. And then

37:06

I was like, no, this, I don't like it.

37:09

I don't feel like this is my thing. She's like,

37:11

cool. You're not doing piano lessons anymore. She did a

37:13

really good job of that. But one thing I would

37:15

do differently is I would put her

37:17

in charge of things that she needed to be

37:19

in charge of when she lived on her own

37:22

a little bit sooner. My mom was so good

37:24

about doing so much for us that

37:27

I, I went from being

37:29

at home and in high school and

37:31

I could really just focus on

37:33

my, my school work and my job and my

37:35

boyfriend and stuff. And I wasn't really responsible for

37:37

anything at home. Like every once in a while

37:39

I'd do chores, but I, you know, she was

37:41

still doing my laundry. She was cooking for us.

37:43

She was doing all of these things. And so

37:45

what happened is when I went to college and

37:48

I moved in with my boyfriend, I had no

37:50

idea how to keep house. I had no idea

37:52

how to do laundry. I had no idea how

37:54

to cook for myself. And I really

37:56

struggled because I was not only having to learn all

37:58

these things for the first time. time, but I

38:00

was also dealing with the double deficit of

38:03

college where there are more demands on your

38:05

executive function because of college and there are

38:07

more social pressures. You know, there's parties to

38:09

go to and all these social distractions. And

38:12

so I was really, really struggling without my mom there

38:14

to help, which is one of the reasons why even

38:16

as a young adult, she'd have to come over and

38:19

like clean my house for me. So

38:21

I think I would probably, you

38:23

know, as early as possible, put

38:25

my daughter in charge of what

38:27

she could handle and even let

38:29

her fail a little bit because it's

38:31

better to fail a little bit now than

38:33

to fail utterly and completely when you're suddenly

38:35

having to do everything on your own. Anything

38:39

with interest and your daughter,

38:43

tell me more. I'm

38:46

just thinking, so I have two kids.

38:49

My son is 21. He's a senior

38:51

at NYU. He's the one who started all this basically.

38:54

And he just announced that

38:56

the kid who hates school, he's

38:58

signing up for six or seven more years. He

39:01

wants to get a PhD in psychology. He wants

39:03

to be a psychologist, which finally makes sense

39:06

because he was talking banker before, you know,

39:08

he was really interested in IB. And I'm,

39:10

I'm so excited because the things that he

39:12

talks about wanting to study are actually things

39:15

like he wants to figure out like how

39:17

does a dyslexic brain learn how to read,

39:19

you know, and when we want to figure

39:21

out things for ourselves, I

39:24

think our best purposes give meaning to our past, right?

39:28

So my question was, as

39:30

far as do you

39:32

think if you had had more

39:35

help cultivating interest early on,

39:38

would that have been helpful? Or now

39:40

that you've been through it all, are you kind

39:42

of like, well, I'm glad

39:44

I went through every single one of those experiences.

39:48

You know, I'm, I'm still really grateful that my

39:50

mom let me try things. And then when I

39:52

was done, I was done. What

39:54

I do wish that I'd had is maybe a

39:56

little bit more of a conversation when I was

39:58

like, and now I'm quick. for

40:00

her to be like, okay, what's the issue

40:02

here? Because I think sometimes it was that

40:04

I wasn't making enough progress and sometimes there

40:06

were ADT challenges getting in the way, right?

40:09

So there are things that I wish that I had

40:11

stuck with. I wish that I'd stuck with learning to

40:13

play the piano. My reasoning for stopping

40:15

playing the piano was not a good one.

40:17

It was, well, my hands are small. I'm

40:20

never gonna be that good at this. So

40:23

I don't wanna waste my parents' money on

40:25

lessons. And I wish that my mom

40:27

had had a little bit of a conversation of like, why do you want

40:29

to do that? You weren't a good

40:31

daughter at all. You were always thinking about your

40:33

parents first. That's

40:35

so funny. Thank you. This is actually

40:38

the first conversation. I feel like I owe you

40:40

therapy money after this because this is the first

40:42

conversation I've had where I actually do feel like,

40:44

man, okay, in a lot of ways I was

40:46

a good daughter. Dang, all right. Maybe

40:48

I could give her some credit for that. But yeah, I

40:50

wish that she had sat down with

40:53

me and said, okay, I love that she

40:55

respected that I was done, but I wish that

40:57

she had maybe asked a little bit why. Because

41:00

if I had told her, well, because my hands are small, I was

41:02

in third grade at the time, okay? Like, of course my hands

41:05

were small. But I was like, because my hands

41:07

are small and I don't wanna waste my parents' money on

41:09

lessons. Can I just stop you? I took

41:11

piano lessons for, I was terrible

41:13

at it. I wouldn't cut my fingernails with the

41:15

problem. So I

41:18

was probably 13 when I stopped

41:21

piano. The

41:23

whole family played all the string instruments. You know, I

41:25

had tiger mom, tiger dad. Got up

41:27

at six in the morning, had to practice for an hour,

41:29

no credit. If you didn't practice, you weren't allowed to go

41:31

play or do fun stuff. So we got up at six

41:33

in the morning and practiced. So I was 13 when

41:36

I stopped. Never once did I even

41:38

realize that if you have big hands, like,

41:40

you know, concert pianists tend to have big

41:42

hands, but you were like how old? And

41:44

you already knew that, oh, hand size is

41:46

important for, you have probably Googling. Google

41:50

is not a thing yet, but I, you know, how did

41:52

you know that? I have no idea.

41:55

I may have just watched, you know, what my piano teacher

41:57

could do. And I noticed that their hands were big. fingers

42:00

in my hands and I realized like I couldn't

42:02

stretch the same. I don't know. But

42:04

I just I knew that I knew that I wasn't

42:06

gonna be good. And I think you know, part of

42:08

it was that I had small hands, but part of

42:10

it was I had trouble practicing.

42:12

Practicing was boring. It was so boring. Oh

42:14

my god, it's so boring. So I didn't

42:16

want to waste my parents money. But I wish

42:18

that she asked me about that. Because at

42:20

the time, I think we're we are okay.

42:22

I think I was worried about things that I

42:25

didn't have to actually worry about. And

42:28

something that I would tell my daughter now is,

42:30

if it's something you enjoy doing, you don't have to

42:32

be great at it. You can just do something so

42:34

that when you're an adult, you have hobbies that you

42:36

love doing. And you don't have to make money off

42:38

of them. You don't have to be amazing. You don't

42:40

have to be the best in the world at something

42:42

for it to be valuable to you

42:44

for it to be worth doing for you. And

42:47

I think that's something that I always struggled with is doing

42:49

things for me and always had to have

42:51

a purpose, you know, and and part of that is the

42:54

gifted kid mentality of like, oh, well, if you can't be

42:56

the best at the spelling bee, you don't find out, right?

42:58

Like you have to be the best you have to,

43:00

you have to achieve you have to win you have to

43:02

be productive you have to you know, it's all for other

43:04

people, I need to impress other people, I need to prove

43:07

myself to other people. And now at

43:09

you know, 41 years old, I'm learning, oh,

43:11

there can be things that are just for

43:13

you. Like there can be things

43:15

that you love doing. tennis is one of them for

43:17

me, I'm never gonna be amazing in tennis ball is so much

43:19

fun just hitting the ball around. And

43:22

I can just show up and enjoy doing that without

43:24

having to worry about being good at it. Yeah,

43:27

absolutely. I just

43:30

want to say you are embarking on what

43:32

I hope will be the funnest part of your

43:34

life. And if it's

43:37

not, it's because you're too

43:39

hard. You know, ultimately, all

43:42

kids need our parents

43:44

who love them, right? You

43:46

they walk into the room and you

43:48

light up because they're there. And all

43:50

the other stuff doesn't matter. So

43:52

I'm so envious. I would love to go

43:55

back there. And of course, my brain, my

43:57

memory is so bad that I can't remember

44:00

I literally people say, oh

44:02

cherish every day because it goes by

44:04

so fast. No, really do that because

44:06

it sounds like your brain and my

44:08

brain work in a similar manner. It

44:10

does. Literally, you will wake up one

44:13

day and they're gone. Wait,

44:15

how was that 18 years? It

44:17

just goes by so fast. You

44:20

don't remember all the little things in between. Then

44:22

when I go to the photo albums, it

44:25

doesn't make me happy. I get sad because it

44:27

was so much fun. I don't

44:29

think I'm ever going to be able to recreate that. Dogs

44:31

are just not the same. They're

44:34

not, but anytime you want to visit, I'm probably

44:36

going to need help. Oh my

44:38

God. I just love babies. I

44:42

don't know that I'm going to have any grandkids for

44:44

a long time, so that's not going to happen

44:46

either. I know

44:48

people just think that woman's scary, get

44:50

her away from my kid, but I'll go see a kid and

44:53

I'll be like, can I hold her? They're like, I

44:55

don't even know you. That's really

44:57

sweet, but that makes me feel so much better because it's

44:59

one of the things that I'm anxious about is I

45:02

have trouble managing my own life. So what

45:04

happens when you have a kid and how

45:06

much more anxiety inducing is that, that now

45:08

you're not only responsible for your own executive

45:10

function, but for a child. It's

45:12

a little scary. And the role model that I had,

45:15

my mom didn't have ADHD. My

45:17

mom was neurotypical. And so I'm holding

45:19

myself to this standard that I can't

45:21

probably reasonably reach. And I have to

45:23

accept that. That I'm going to bring

45:25

different things to my child's life and

45:27

my mom was able to bring to

45:29

mind. But it's really nice to

45:31

hear from somebody who's been there that it was

45:33

a wonderful time for you. It's

45:36

all about positive emotion.

45:38

And you may be a sandbox mom

45:40

actually, when I think about you and what I've

45:42

read about you in your book, I

45:45

was not. What's a sandbox mom? You

45:48

know, the kind of mom who will literally just sit

45:51

in the sandbox. Oh

45:53

yeah, totally. Totally sit in the sandbox. You

45:56

know why? Part of it is like, I

45:58

miss being a kid. It was

46:00

so fun. I want to I want to like

46:02

I want to revisit my own childhood That sounds

46:05

amazing and I'm gonna be teaching my kid about

46:07

emotions and I'm gonna be like, oh, right Yeah,

46:09

we should pay attention to our emotions. I feel

46:11

like I'm gonna kind of like we go through

46:13

my own childhood Yes, and that's exactly what happens

46:16

and it sounds like you had such a lovely

46:18

relationship with your own mother that You'll

46:20

do the same thing with your daughter. I

46:22

am absolutely certain of it Just don't beat

46:24

yourself up for those things that you don't

46:26

do Well, I mean as I was starting

46:28

to say all my friends were stay-at-home moms.

46:30

I Couldn't possibly

46:33

just stay home It just and

46:35

and you know, no dissing anybody who does you

46:37

need to do what works for you? But that

46:39

was just not me and so

46:42

I would kind of flit in and flit out and

46:44

I guess I was supposed to feel guilty

46:46

Because you know women this is women's work

46:48

and we're supposed to be doing it but

46:51

I just realized that you know as long

46:53

as my kids were happy and as long as

46:56

They knew how much

46:58

I cared about them all the

47:00

other stuff didn't matter And so I mean

47:02

there were times when Jess I would literally

47:07

A Friend of mine was

47:09

going through a really bad divorce. I

47:11

mean so bad that her her

47:13

ex Had I

47:16

mean family had a divorce attorney.

47:18

He had a divorce attorney Like I'm like I'm

47:20

saying it so low like then nobody will hear

47:22

right Yeah,

47:26

and so what she ended up doing was

47:29

she called me She was in you know

47:31

This divorce proceeding with all the lawyers

47:33

there and you know They were trying to prove that she was

47:35

an unfit mother and she said to me could you go pick

47:37

up my kids? Cuz my boy

47:39

my son and her boys were really

47:41

good friends and I'm like, yes

47:43

So it was an hour and I'm doing my work,

47:45

you know before I had to pick her up It

47:48

was an hour and I get into the car and

47:50

I pull up to the line and

47:52

I see her boys And I think oh my god,

47:54

and they're with Marcus my son. Oh my gosh. I

47:56

love those boys. They're such great boys Marcus

47:58

gets in the car. They didn't know that they were supposed to

48:00

come with me, I wave at them and I

48:03

drive away. Like, there are

48:05

so many times I know and you

48:07

can imagine then, you know,

48:09

you know, the divorce lawyers got involved and this

48:11

was another indicator of what a bad mother she

48:13

is, the kids are there, you know, it was just

48:16

stuff like that. And I would forget to pick

48:18

I would forget I have kids sometimes. I

48:21

forget I'm pregnant sometimes like,

48:24

you know, and that's that's one of my greatest

48:26

fears. Like, I'm gonna forget about the kid like

48:28

I'm gonna but you know what, there are so

48:30

many there's so many strategies that you can use

48:32

the car that we got and this is intentional.

48:35

The car that we got will remind

48:37

you like when you park, you have to open the

48:39

not scary thing will remind you it will remind you

48:41

that there is a child in the pack or it

48:43

will say hey, don't forget to check the back seat.

48:45

And like, oh, thank goodness. And right now it's just

48:47

a purse that I left back there. But like when

48:49

it's a child, I'm gonna be real grateful for

48:52

that reminder. Tell you about the purse. Yeah,

48:55

it tells you any anytime you open up the back

48:57

door and put something in the backseat, when

48:59

you park like you'll drive, you know, for 45 minutes

49:01

or whatever, and then you park and it says to

49:04

check the backseat. It reminds you

49:06

to check the backseat. Wow, because it knows

49:08

that you've put something back there. And so

49:10

I'm like, this is amazing. I

49:12

love this car so much. And I'm

49:14

so glad that there's so much more technology that

49:17

is supportive of these challenges because yeah, it sounds

49:19

like we do have this in common working memory

49:21

is just rough. And

49:23

we get read those stories

49:26

of I know people who leave their kids in

49:28

the back of the car and everybody's

49:30

just pounding on them. Because

49:32

they don't understand those people

49:34

likely have ADHD, right? You

49:36

don't just forget your kid.

49:38

Yeah. So they have ADHD there. They're

49:41

hyper focused on something or they're going through

49:43

their normal routine and they don't usually have

49:45

their kid with them when they go to

49:47

the grocery store. So there's something emotional going

49:49

on. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I know all the

49:51

times like all these horror stories like what

49:53

a horrible mother this person was. And I'm

49:55

just like, Oh God, they probably just have

49:57

ADHD. I know. And like, it's just rough,

49:59

you know, this way that we assign

50:01

things as a moral failing that are really just

50:03

cognitive struggles, it's a little bit

50:05

heartbreaking and it's a little bit scary, right?

50:08

Because women, this is another box, right?

50:10

I have dodged the boxes now, like

50:13

the neurotypical box and then the actress

50:15

having to be a certain way, certain

50:17

size, shape, everything box. I've

50:19

been able to create my own box, but

50:21

now that I'm becoming a mom, that's another

50:23

box that I could easily fail to fit

50:26

into. And so I'm really working hard to

50:28

define what it means to me to be a mom

50:30

and what success looks like to me and

50:32

to be able to advocate for that and say, that's

50:35

great that that's the way that you do

50:37

it, this is how I do it. These

50:39

are my values because if we don't define

50:42

our own values, then it's just

50:44

super imposed on us what society's

50:46

values are, what it looks like. And I have

50:48

a mom friend of mine who said the

50:51

most amazing thing, she's like, there is

50:53

so much baking expected of you when you're a

50:55

mom. For some reason, like, you know,

50:57

fakes me out. You're not allowed

50:59

to bake? I actually do like to bake,

51:01

but I like the concept of

51:04

what she's saying. She's like, I

51:06

just told people, I don't bake. I'm

51:08

happy to bring plates and forks

51:10

and spoons to every party, but

51:12

I'm not going to bake. And she would just,

51:14

she was like, that is my boundary, right? I'm

51:17

not going to bake. You can expect

51:19

this. So for me, I'm actually super excited

51:21

to be like, sorry, I can't work today. I'm gonna

51:23

bake a cake for my kids. I'm

51:26

super happy to do that because I

51:28

like baking, because I like cooking

51:30

from instructions, from recipes and stuff like that. But

51:33

it's nice to know that if there is something that's

51:35

like, this isn't who I am, this isn't in line

51:37

with my values or my strengths. I can just

51:39

be like, that's not, you know,

51:41

that's not something I have to offer. That's

51:44

not this model. I think you

51:46

want that model over there. We're not

51:48

all the same and that's fine. Other neurotypical

51:50

moms. I really think, you

51:52

know, that that's the key. Or, not neurotypical,

51:55

not neurotypical moms. Yeah, well

51:58

you want neurotypical moms because they can short. it

52:00

up, right? But then you want neurodiverse

52:02

moms, like as part of the friend group.

52:04

So you realize that, hey, there's so many

52:07

different ways to skin this cat. Yeah,

52:09

ultimately, you know, my biggest goal

52:12

was always that I want

52:14

my kids to be proud that I'm their mom. Oh,

52:18

that might mean different things to

52:20

everyone, you know, but that

52:23

was really what was important to me that they were, you

52:25

know, that, and it's kind of like what you said

52:27

about, I mean, yes, you are a

52:29

wonderful daughter. You always come, you know, even

52:31

when it's like, Oh, well, I'd like this

52:34

thing to be different. But my mom did

52:36

all these great things. Like, you're always you're

52:38

so loyal and kind to your mom, as

52:40

you should be, because it sounds like she

52:43

was a fantastic mom. Okay, Jess, we need

52:45

to wrap up. Wonderful. Tell us about your

52:47

book and anything you want people to know

52:49

about it. Yeah, so I

52:52

wrote this book, it's called how to EDHC

52:54

and insider's guide to working with your brain

52:56

not against it. And it is quite

52:59

literally everything important that I learned on

53:01

my seven year journey to learn to

53:03

work with my brain not against it.

53:05

And when I started, I knew

53:07

nothing I knew basically that, you know, I had

53:09

trouble paying attention and these meds helped me focus

53:11

and everything else was my fault. And I was

53:13

a horrible human who just needed to

53:16

try harder who had all this potential that she wasn't

53:18

reaching because of moral failings. I don't know,

53:20

I was not in a great place when I started and I

53:22

was really disempowered because on the days when I couldn't get

53:24

my meds, which you know, we all know there's

53:26

a stimulant shortage right now, I have no

53:28

other tools, and I felt useless, right. And

53:31

so I went from being really disempowered

53:33

feeling like, terrible about

53:35

myself, to learning all these

53:37

tools, learning the language for what I struggled

53:39

with, learning what I could do about it,

53:41

all these strategies and everything to coming to

53:43

a place of real self acceptance. And

53:46

also an understanding that, you know, that a lot

53:48

of my struggles were because I lived

53:50

in a world that didn't really understand or accommodate

53:52

for these challenges. And so it wasn't just me

53:54

that needed to try harder, I needed the world

53:56

to do a little bit better too. And then

53:58

in the end, I have this toolbox full

54:00

of strategies. I have a strong sense of

54:02

self. I like who I am. I like

54:04

the life that I'm living and that I'm

54:07

building. And it was such a powerful transformation.

54:09

I wanted to put everything that I learned

54:11

that helped me get there into one book.

54:13

And so that is this book. It's how

54:15

to motivate your brain, how to sleep, how

54:17

to feel, how to, you know, dealing

54:19

with our emotions. We have these big emotions that

54:21

we often try and stuff down. And that turns

54:24

out not to be the way to handle it, apparently.

54:27

How to help people, how to make friends.

54:29

Like all of these things that I learned

54:31

are in this book. And not only the

54:33

strategies that I learned, but I include quotes

54:35

from the community about how they use these

54:37

different strategies or what they do that's really

54:40

unique. And so it's such

54:42

an important book. It's one that I wish that

54:44

I had had. And it's one that,

54:47

that I'm glad to have myself as a resource.

54:49

There are a lot of parts of this book

54:51

that I used to help me get through writing

54:53

this book. And I personally

54:55

revisit this stuff because we

54:57

can learn all of this stuff, but

55:00

remembering it, you know, retaining it and then being able

55:02

to access it when we need to is really tough.

55:04

And so now anytime I'm like struggling with sleep, I

55:06

can go back to that sleep chapter and be like,

55:08

right, what am I doing? Like, what are my options

55:11

here? And it's, I

55:13

think it's a really important, powerful resource. There's

55:15

also pre-order gifts right now.

55:17

So if you go to howto8htbook.com, you

55:20

can find where to pre-order the book as well

55:22

as if you scroll down to the bottom of

55:24

the page, there's a form for pre-order gifts.

55:26

So you can actually get the entire chapter

55:29

on motivation already, even before the book

55:31

comes out. So give us the URL

55:33

again. The URL

55:35

is howto8htbook.com.

55:39

Well, that makes sense. Jessica, thank you so much for

55:41

spending time with us here today. It was lovely

55:43

to get to know you. It was

55:46

amazing. We have to catch up and have coffee and

55:48

you have to come meet the baby when the baby's

55:50

here. Yeah. So you're in LA. I'm

55:52

in Seattle now. Oh, you're in Seattle. Okay.

55:54

Well, we're on the same coast. Okay.

55:57

We're going to take you out of here. So that's

55:59

what I have. you for this week. If

56:01

you like this episode with Jessica, please let

56:03

us know by leaving a review. Our

56:06

goal is to change the conversation

56:08

around ADHD, helping as many women

56:10

as we possibly can learn how

56:12

their ADHD brains work so that

56:14

they too can discover their amazing

56:17

strengths. Thank you so much for

56:19

listening. I'll see you here next

56:21

week. And don't forget to go

56:23

order my book at adhdforsmartwomen.com/book and

56:25

then go order Jessica's too. Okay,

56:28

thank you. Bye-bye. You've

56:32

been listening to the ADHD

56:34

for Smart Ass Women podcast.

56:36

My new host, Tracy S.

56:38

Pizzo. Join us at adhdforsmartwomen.com

56:41

where you can find more

56:43

information on my new book,

56:45

ADHD for Smart Ass Women,

56:47

and my patented Your ADHD

56:49

Brain is AOK Fixing to

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help you get ADHD and

56:53

fall in love with your

56:55

ballroom phone.