0:12

Hello, everybody

0:12

and welcome to adjusted. I'm

0:15

your host, Greg Hanlon coming at

0:15

you from beautiful Birmingham,

0:18

Alabama and Berkley industrial

0:18

comp. And I'm excited that

0:22

you're here to join us for one

0:22

of our rebroadcast. In this

0:26

episode, I had the opportunity

0:26

to talk with Chris Moore

0:29

managing partner at insurer

0:29

national. And we talked about

0:33

what causes some employees to

0:33

stay and what causes others to

0:38

lead. And this is another one

0:38

that's near and dear to my heart

0:42

as and one of the reasons we

0:42

picked this one to rebroadcast

0:45

throughout my career, one of the

0:45

things that I've had to tackle

0:48

and manage has been how to bring

0:48

stability to a Claims

0:52

Department. And obviously, one

0:52

of the things that causes some

0:55

of the greatest struggle within

0:55

a department is turnover. And so

1:00

we tackled this topic together.

1:00

And it was interesting to hear

1:03

from Chris's point of view, who

1:03

works on the staffing side,

1:08

evaluating what those factors

1:08

are. So I hope you'll enjoy this

1:12

episode and have a few takeaways

1:12

of what your organization can do

1:17

to help your employees stay

1:17

versus losing them. Well,

1:21

welcome everyone to adjust it.

1:21

I'm your host, Greg Hanlon

1:25

coming at you from beautiful

1:25

Birmingham, Alabama, and

1:29

Berkeley industrial cop, and

1:29

with me is my co host for the

1:32

day. That yelling, Matt, you

1:32

want introduce yourself.

1:36

Hello,

1:36

everyone. This is Matt Yaling.

1:38

I'm coming from St. Louis,

1:38

Missouri along the banks of the

1:42

Big Muddy Mississippi River.

1:42

Welcome.

1:46

Glad to have you,

1:46

Matt. Matt's with MEC, one of

1:49

our fellow Berkeley companies.

1:49

So if you've listened to a few

1:52

of these before, you've heard us

1:52

team up and do a few of these.

1:54

And he offers an interesting

1:54

perspective coming from an

1:58

excess carrier. So it's always

1:58

good to have a couple different

2:01

viewpoints with us for the day

2:01

as our special guest, Chris

2:04

Moore, who's managing partner at

2:04

insurer national. Chris, do you

2:09

want to introduce yourself for

2:09

everybody?

2:11

Yeah, my name is

2:11

Chris Moore. I am based out of

2:15

Dallas, Texas. So right in

2:15

downtown born and raised here,

2:18

and I am one of the owners here

2:18

at International.

2:22

Excellent. We're

2:22

glad to have you, Chris. The

2:24

topic we want to tackle today is

2:24

why do some employees stay and

2:28

what causes them to leave? And I

2:28

think people in the industry

2:31

right now I've seen a lot of

2:31

change in general. We've talked

2:33

about it in some of the other

2:33

episodes, I think the COVID

2:36

caused a lot of people to

2:36

reevaluate their priorities. And

2:39

so we've seen a lot of shifting

2:39

going on in the industry and

2:43

outside of it. But I thought

2:43

we'd start by you just talking a

2:45

little bit, Chris, about how did

2:45

you end up in the insurance

2:48

industry?

2:50

Yeah, so it's actually an interesting story. So I spent about seven years and

2:51

IT staffing back in my early

2:56

days. And at the time, my boss

2:56

is the one that hired me

2:59

actually met the original owner

2:59

of international on a plane. And

3:03

at the time we did it, we did

3:03

all contracts and contract to

3:05

hire staffing for different

3:05

industries across the board. And

3:09

they had met on the plane and

3:09

she was looking to grow her

3:12

business. She was only doing

3:12

direct hire, and she was like, I

3:15

want to grow this into a different division and new contracts contract to hire. Long

3:17

story short, my boss is like, I

3:20

know what my old boss is like, I

3:20

know a guy that can might be

3:22

able to help you out. We

3:22

connected on Utah of all places

3:26

we met in the middle because I'm in Dallas, and she's in California. I met for honestly

3:28

probably a whole day and just

3:33

kind of got to know each other

3:33

looked at the vision of what she

3:35

was wanting to do. You know,

3:35

honestly, I fell in love with

3:38

her and kind of urges passion

3:38

for the industry. She has an

3:42

insurance background. And yeah,

3:42

just kind of long story short,

3:45

that's how I got in and started

3:45

up our Dallas office in this new

3:49

division. About a year, year and

3:49

four months ago now. So it feels

3:53

like a month ago, but it's been

3:53

a year already a year. So it's

3:57

been a fun ride. But that's kind

3:57

of how I got into insurance. I

4:00

guess I stumbled upon it.

4:02

I think that's how

4:02

most of us most of us got here.

4:04

What was your just out of curiosity? What was your background in college? What did

4:06

you study?

4:09

I played basketball

4:09

at Tulane University down in New

4:11

Orleans. I got a degree in media

4:11

arts. My whole goal was to start

4:17

my own business. I didn't know

4:17

what. But basically, I wanted to

4:21

handle all the communications

4:21

and marketing and digital stuff

4:23

myself. I minored in web design.

4:23

So I wanted to kind of take my

4:27

web design experience and create

4:27

my own website, my own business.

4:31

And but yeah, I didn't, I guess

4:31

I'm kind of running my own

4:33

business. I'm not doing any of

4:33

the marketing or digital stuff.

4:37

And then I fell into sales,

4:37

basically my whole careers, how

4:40

it ended up professionally. But

4:40

yeah, that's kind of my college

4:42

background, I guess, if you

4:42

will. That's awesome. What

4:45

did you play in college?

4:47

So I was a shooting

4:47

guard. So I always tell the

4:50

story. I was at Tulane two years

4:50

before Hurricane Katrina for the

4:54

insurance people and two years

4:54

after Hurricane Katrina so

4:58

Orleans was a Have a night and

4:58

day place after and before. So

5:03

it was pretty quite, it was

5:03

pretty crazy time. But you know,

5:06

it was an experiential. It's needless to say,

5:09

I went to Indiana

5:09

University. So it's a big

5:11

basketball school and we're not

5:11

we die for somebody could shoot

5:15

right now we've had some great,

5:15

great teams, but we haven't had

5:19

good shooting in probably six or

5:19

eight years or so

5:21

which is rare for people from Indiana because that's right. And it drives

5:23

people crazy

5:26

in the state.

5:28

Where you're happy with the recent outcome, Chris?

5:31

Well, I can there's

5:31

two ways I can go about this. My

5:34

bracket was busted. So no, I'm a

5:34

massive Texas Tech fan. So

5:39

because Kansas is in the big 12

5:39

I was rooting for them. So I

5:43

didn't really care who won. But

5:43

they won. So I guess I was happy

5:46

about it. But it was a great

5:46

game to watch. So I was happy

5:49

about just it was a good game.

5:50

Yeah. Good game.

5:53

I'm always rooting

5:53

for the big 10 Once we get to

5:55

the tournament, but we seem to

5:55

be the conference everybody goes

5:58

through to get to the

5:58

championship, but we can't

6:01

figure out a winner that you want.

6:02

Yeah. You'll

6:02

figure it out. We'll get there.

6:05

In Chris, for those that listen

6:05

to this podcast that don't know

6:08

ensure national, why don't you

6:08

introduce the what you do for

6:11

them and what the organization

6:11

does for the insurance industry?

6:15

Yeah, so

6:15

International is basically a

6:17

national staffing firm. Our sole

6:17

focus is the insurance industry.

6:22

So we partner with insurance

6:22

organizations of all sizes all

6:25

over the country. And basically

6:25

what we do is we help them find

6:28

talent for direct hire, contract

6:28

contract to hire and insurance

6:32

consulting. So I think one of

6:32

our benefits that we like to

6:36

explain to organizations is our

6:36

whole network of people are from

6:39

the insurance world already. But

6:39

we're also trying to find folks,

6:42

which I think is a big

6:42

challenge, which we may get into

6:45

later, but that aren't from the

6:45

insurance world and get them

6:47

into the insurance industry to

6:47

help kind of fill a gap that

6:50

we're seeing in that world. But

6:50

yeah, that's basically our sole

6:53

focus and how we help those

6:53

organizations and kind of just

6:56

pitch that as a unique selling

6:56

point, I guess, if you will, to

6:59

these insurance companies.

7:01

And do you guys do all lines, then?

7:03

Yes, yeah. So

7:03

basically anything if you're an

7:06

insurance company, you have an

7:06

in house litigation team, you

7:09

have a IT team, if you have

7:09

marketing, sales, claims

7:13

underwriting, if you're an

7:13

insurance company, our sole

7:15

focus is kind of focusing in

7:15

that space. That's

7:18

fantastic. So now,

7:18

did you I know you were

7:21

mentioning you went to Dallas,

7:21

or that you're from Dallas, and

7:24

that you so did you start the

7:24

offices in Dallas? With Yeah,

7:29

sure. So what was that like?

7:31

Yeah, so I've never

7:31

I've been in an organization

7:34

where I was sent to another city

7:34

to start up with, I guess, the

7:38

office, but I was more on the

7:38

sales side. So I was going out

7:41

getting a business, but the

7:41

operations, the finances, all

7:43

that stuff, I didn't see what

7:43

was going on behind the scenes.

7:45

So this is kind of my first

7:45

glimpse into all that type of

7:49

stuff. I saw financials with

7:49

that company, and I kind of

7:52

looked at them. But it's

7:52

interesting, because I know

7:54

staffing. I've been through a

7:54

lot of situations and I've been

7:57

doing it for a while. So I

7:57

understand the business. But as

7:59

you start diving into actually

7:59

opening a business putting money

8:02

down of your own money to invest

8:02

in it to get it is it was a was

8:07

fun. And but now to see the

8:07

growth of it. It's actually

8:10

pretty cool. But yeah, we had an

8:10

office in California Chelsea on

8:13

the owner of international

8:13

started in Florida, she moved

8:17

out to California with her

8:17

husband, so we have an office

8:19

and basically Boca Raton,

8:19

Florida, kind of Dana Point area

8:23

in California, and then now

8:23

Dallas, Texas. So we can come to

8:25

cover essentially all regions

8:25

all time zones in the US.

8:29

That's great. It

8:29

seems like everybody's got an

8:32

office in Florida, in the

8:32

insurance industry.

8:38

What's the most

8:38

rewarding part of running your

8:41

own organization?

8:43

You know, it's

8:43

funny, we started this a year

8:45

and it's literally December of

8:45

2020 is when we opened it. And

8:49

then I made my first hire in

8:49

March, just trying to get

8:52

business. And so my first

8:52

employee has been here literally

8:56

months, a little over a month

8:56

now. And we now have seven in

8:58

our office. So I think the

8:58

rewarding part is seeing and my

9:02

focus with a lot of people that

9:02

we bring in or you know, younger

9:05

professionals that have some

9:05

professional experience, not

9:08

necessarily in recruiting, it

9:08

doesn't have to be but I've been

9:11

through the professional ranks.

9:11

But also we are seeing kids out

9:13

of college as well. And training

9:13

them and kind of coaching them

9:17

and seeing the progression that

9:17

they've done in the last year is

9:20

kind of the most rewarding for

9:20

me because I like seeing people

9:22

grow very fast, selfishly, it

9:22

kind of makes me feel like I'm

9:25

doing the right thing because they're doing the right thing. And they pick up on things very

9:27

quickly. But just watching the

9:30

office grow, how fast it's

9:30

grown, but also seeing our

9:32

employees being rewarded for the

9:32

hard work we put in because

9:35

recruiting is not easy. It's a

9:35

lot of time, a lot of effort and

9:38

you're dealing with a lot of

9:38

people and so just seeing their

9:40

growth and seeing them having

9:40

having fun. I've been in their

9:44

shoes, so I took pieces I didn't

9:44

like and I took pieces that I

9:48

did like and I kind of mold of

9:48

that and kind of try to create a

9:51

culture here that we're trying

9:51

to build and make people wanted

9:54

to be a part of because I think

9:54

that's the biggest thing in

9:56

selling an organization is the

9:56

culture and do you like working

9:58

with the people and all that

9:58

Good stuff. So, yeah, just the

10:02

growth of the employees so far

10:02

to date is kind of the most

10:04

rewarding thing right now.

10:06

That's great. So I

10:06

know, in your industry, you're

10:10

talking about recruiting and the

10:10

and the challenges of that we're

10:13

in the middle of what's being

10:13

dubbed the great resignation.

10:16

And so that's been talked about

10:16

a lot, because there's just

10:18

people changing jobs. We've even

10:18

companies with good cultures,

10:22

especially ones that don't have

10:22

good cultures are seeing it, but

10:25

everybody's having to deal with

10:25

it a little bit. As one whole

10:28

generation retires. And then

10:28

we've had a lot, just a lot of

10:32

changes. In your opinion, how do

10:32

we get here? How do we get to a

10:36

place where all at once we're

10:36

seeing so much movement?

10:38

Yeah, there's a

10:38

there's a big shift, obviously,

10:41

the pandemic COVID is what did I

10:41

think three years ago, I think

10:43

we can all agree, unless you are

10:43

leadership, and you had leaders

10:47

in different regions of the US

10:47

zoom wasn't really a thing,

10:50

teams wasn't really a thing. It

10:50

was in person, you're in office.

10:53

And I think what happened, the

10:53

pandemic forced everybody, you

10:56

know, companies, whether they

10:56

were ready or not to send

10:59

everybody home to work remote,

10:59

there were challenges around it,

11:02

if you weren't a really good IT

11:02

company, and could do things

11:04

virtually, there was a lot of

11:04

setup and headaches with that.

11:07

But I think it also on the flip

11:07

side employees, because they

11:10

were getting to work from home,

11:10

which I don't think was a thing

11:13

really couple years ago as well.

11:13

Some companies had hybrid

11:16

models, but the organization's

11:16

the bigger ones that we've seen

11:19

today, really were in office

11:19

Monday through Friday, eight to

11:21

five. And once those employees

11:21

started getting to work from

11:24

home, they started seeing how

11:24

much flexibility they had

11:26

working from home. And I think

11:26

it was, it was something where

11:30

there's a big shift in that

11:30

year, two years that we've had

11:33

and COVID. And basically,

11:33

employees are realizing kind of

11:36

a I don't wanna say they have the power, that's probably not the right word. But the cards

11:38

are kind of in their hands and

11:40

are saying, Okay, what

11:40

organizations are going to fit

11:43

my like my criteria, you know,

11:43

whether it's work from home, or

11:46

a hybrid schedule, or better pay

11:46

is it better benefits? I don't

11:49

know what that looks like. And I

11:49

think it's funny, if employers

11:52

had the answer, we wouldn't be

11:52

having this issue. But I think

11:56

that's the gold question. I

11:56

guess, if you can figure out

11:58

what these employees want in a

11:58

job, you can start trying to

12:02

retain some of these folks and

12:02

keep them around, but also

12:05

employ them and make sure they

12:05

stick. But it's funny, because

12:08

my previous jobs with Qualtrics.

12:08

And they're all customer

12:11

experience and employee

12:11

experience surveys. So I learned

12:13

a lot from that industry, just

12:13

in how important it is for the

12:16

employee to have a great experience working for an organization, whether it's a

12:18

remote, you go through a

12:20

pandemic, are they going to

12:20

stick around because you know,

12:22

they liked their manager,

12:22

they're not burnt out, all that

12:25

type of stuff plays into the end

12:25

of the whole scheme of is this

12:27

person going to stick around? Are they going to leave us and go somewhere else? But it's an

12:29

interesting conversation, just

12:33

because I think it's been a big

12:33

shift in the way who's in

12:35

control, basically. And right

12:35

now, I think a lot of employees

12:39

are in control. And they can

12:39

determine, you know, like I

12:42

said, what they're what the

12:42

requirements are and where they

12:44

want to go work. And if a

12:44

company doesn't match it, they

12:46

have other jobs, they can go

12:46

look for some Yeah, it's that

12:49

it's the question that I don't think anybody has the answer to right now. And I wish I did,

12:51

because I really have to hire a

12:54

lot of people.

12:56

If you could

12:56

tell the C suite of an org and

12:58

insurance organization, anything

12:58

to help retain talent, what

13:03

would be your top three items,

13:03

you'd tell an organization for

13:07

talent retention?

13:08

Yeah, great question. So we've talked to a lot of candidates, and I'm gonna

13:09

call them candidates, mostly

13:12

employees. But you know, we

13:12

talked to a lot of people for

13:14

opportunities. And I think the

13:14

three biggest things they're

13:16

looking for are flexibility. So

13:16

whether that's a hybrid model,

13:20

you know, if they're in office,

13:20

or work from home 100%.

13:23

Secondly, it's going to be a lot

13:23

of sign on bonuses, or some type

13:27

of bonuses throughout their

13:27

career that they're paid out on,

13:30

and then also just the exploit

13:30

experience as a whole. So, you

13:33

know, working, I think that's

13:33

the challenging part is working,

13:36

virtually, you're not going to

13:36

have that social interaction

13:38

that face to face, it's all

13:38

going to be virtual, but how

13:40

does that person feeling

13:40

important within the

13:43

organization, how are they

13:43

contributing, and seeing their

13:45

contributions go to work,

13:45

instead of just being like, you

13:48

sit in that desk, you do your

13:48

job eight to five, and then you

13:50

go home, and you may get

13:50

rewarded a little bit, but that

13:53

kind of goes to Hey, the cards

13:53

in the hand have changed a

13:56

little bit. And I would say

13:56

those are probably the top three

13:59

things that we're hearing from

13:59

employees that they want in a

14:02

new opportunity. And I think

14:02

organizations are having to

14:05

adjust to that a little bit and

14:05

coming up with creative ways to

14:08

kind of keep those people

14:08

engaged, or more, hire them and

14:11

put those in offer letters and

14:11

things of that nature.

14:14

I think you hit on some really important things there. And I can think of my own

14:16

journey to be where I am now.

14:20

And when I started my career,

14:20

you know, one of the places I

14:23

worked I often felt like my

14:23

employee number I had to log in

14:26

every day and 0140409 and I felt

14:26

like that's pretty much what I

14:32

was to the company was that

14:32

number and as long as my work

14:35

product was getting pumped out,

14:35

life was good. And I was as

14:39

mobile as a laptop or a monitor.

14:39

There wasn't really much thought

14:43

of the fact that I was a human

14:43

being that had a family and had

14:47

desires of my own and had ideas

14:47

that could help them you know,

14:50

the there wasn't really

14:50

interested in that and so you

14:53

know, I think that's a challenge.

14:55

It is and and going

14:55

back to my younger my first job

14:59

and just being an ad I always

14:59

had the mindset of someone could

15:01

take your job. And I think

15:01

nowadays, it's flipped, where

15:04

it's like, now the company is

15:04

like, we need people to find the

15:08

right person. And don't get me

15:08

wrong, someone can always take

15:10

your job no matter where you're

15:10

in. But I think that mindset now

15:15

is like, Oh, if I don't perform,

15:15

someone's going to take my job,

15:18

it alleviates some of the

15:18

stress. And then I honestly

15:20

think it's gonna help people

15:20

perform better. You know, if

15:22

they're gonna get a job, like,

15:22

obviously, you're gonna perform,

15:24

but if they're bummed out, when

15:24

they're not happy, and they're

15:28

mistreated by their manager,

15:28

they're gonna they're gonna

15:30

leave ship really quickly.

15:32

I absolutely agree

15:32

with everything you said there,

15:35

I think there's a lot that we

15:35

can do better to make sure

15:38

people feel like they're part of

15:38

the team. And we've got some

15:40

work to do. And that's for sure.

15:40

Yeah, that's for sure.

15:42

I'm, I'm in

15:42

zero 11, eight man.

15:49

We both have scars.

15:49

Yeah. You know, we

15:53

talked about

15:53

this last year with one of

15:55

Greg's employees about, you

15:55

know, in the claims industry,

15:58

Greg and I both work in claims,

15:58

obviously, for an insurance

16:01

carrier. So kind of shift in the

16:01

discussion to claims that

16:06

there's a customer service focus

16:06

that we are adapting more

16:11

regularly now. So how do we find

16:11

staff for those positions? And

16:15

how do you guys help us find

16:15

staff for those positions?

16:18

Yeah, so it's

16:18

funny, I've actually, there's

16:21

some interesting concepts I've

16:21

heard talking to, you know,

16:24

different claims leaders to the

16:24

workers comp, it could be PNC,

16:27

whatever it may look like. And they're looking at different ways to do service type of

16:29

roles, because there are certain

16:32

they're obviously as a service

16:32

type of role and claims, and a

16:34

lot of them looking at like

16:34

social workers, or previous

16:37

customers, grants professionals

16:37

that aren't from the insurance

16:40

world, and bringing them in and

16:40

helping them get them licensed

16:43

and all that good stuff to kind

16:43

of move them into the insurance

16:45

world. Typically, if you're a

16:45

CSR, customer service rep or

16:49

social worker probably could get

16:49

them a little more money if we

16:52

can get them licensed. And it

16:52

was an interesting concept that

16:54

I had with a few conversations

16:54

with some companies that we're

16:57

looking to try to help them

16:57

with, because they came to us

16:59

that, hey, we typically just

16:59

hire a customer service rep or a

17:01

claims adjuster who has service

17:01

experience, but we're trying to

17:04

figure out a way to bring in

17:04

younger professionals into the

17:08

industry to kind of help have

17:08

them mold them into our way and

17:11

how we want them to fit into our

17:11

organization or culture, but

17:14

then only someone that's going

17:14

to stick around for a while. And

17:16

I think one of the things that

17:16

they had brought up to us, which

17:19

I thought was pretty interesting. Looking at it from a social worker standpoint, it

17:20

was always having conversations

17:23

with people, they're always

17:23

handling some different types of

17:25

situations, you can always think

17:25

on their feet, but also just a

17:28

customer service rep that, you

17:28

know, may work at American

17:31

Airlines or something like that,

17:31

that may want to switch careers

17:34

and go into this world where

17:34

they'll train them up on

17:36

everything, no, get them

17:36

licensed, it really helped them

17:39

kind of bring in a diverse group

17:39

of people and help them train

17:42

them in the claims world. But on

17:42

the flip side, as a employer,

17:45

you have to be able to take the

17:45

time and understand it's gonna

17:47

take time to get people ramped

17:47

up. But you have to put that

17:50

time in to make sure that

17:50

someone is going to work out and

17:53

stick around. Because if you

17:53

just bring him in and throw him

17:55

into the fire, you know, people

17:55

are gonna get burnt out if they

17:58

have a good work ethic, and

17:58

they're gonna go somewhere else.

18:00

And you literally just train

18:00

them to go and pay them to go be

18:03

a great class or their company.

18:03

And it was an interesting

18:07

concept that I never thought of,

18:07

but just trying to think of ways

18:11

to bring people from different

18:11

organizations or different

18:14

industries into the claims world

18:14

and help like the claims

18:16

adjuster start helping these organizations with different talents.

18:19

I've seen that play

18:19

out in our company quite a bit

18:22

where we've had some really

18:22

great success with bringing

18:24

people and we we hired a flight

18:24

attendant at one point, she was

18:27

amazing, we've hired a customer

18:27

service person from, you know,

18:31

grocery store that was really

18:31

known for their white glove, you

18:34

know, care of their. And so I

18:34

think those skills are

18:37

transferable and you're hitting

18:37

on something that's important

18:40

because we were facing the other

18:40

buzzword is the silver tsunami,

18:43

all the baby boomers are

18:43

retiring. And there's not enough

18:46

people to fill those spots if we

18:46

don't get creative. And I've

18:50

seen the challenge. And I don't

18:50

know, if you have Matt, where

18:53

sometimes if we put a lot of

18:53

time and energy, we take a model

18:56

where we're only looking at

18:56

recent college grads, we can end

18:59

up putting a lot of time and

18:59

effort into people that

19:01

constantly leave. And you know,

19:01

after three to five years,

19:04

they're ready for the next thing

19:04

or they're not sure that this is

19:07

what they wanted to do. But by

19:07

the time you've invested a year

19:10

of your time to train them, you

19:10

know, it's like now you'd be

19:13

starting all the way back over.

19:13

They were just getting to the

19:15

point they were helpful. So I

19:15

think you do need to look a lot

19:18

of different ways and have a

19:18

nice popery like as a group of

19:22

different skill sets from different places.

19:24

I think, you know,

19:24

Chelsea, she started

19:28

international because as you

19:28

mentioned, she saw kind of a gap

19:31

in that world where the talent

19:31

gap is what we call it on our

19:34

side is you have the folks who

19:34

are retiring 30% of the

19:37

workforce is going to be

19:37

retiring and Pandemic actually

19:39

push people out sooner. What I'm

19:39

just gonna go ahead and retire,

19:43

you know, there's no I don't

19:43

know what the future holds. And

19:45

so that was that number probably

19:45

increased a little bit, but then

19:48

you have some of those, you

19:48

know, the middle generation that

19:51

are now getting promoted into

19:51

new roles, but what is that

19:53

younger generation coming in?

19:53

And I've been in several

19:56

industries. Previously before

19:56

this, I was at Uber where we did

19:59

trucking for Uber and Uber for

19:59

trucking and the trucking

20:02

shortage drivers. It's there's a

20:02

gap. The younger talent does not

20:05

want to go be a trucker. The

20:05

younger talent isn't just

20:07

falling into the insurance world

20:07

because it's sexy. It's

20:10

insurances. So it's, I look at

20:10

it, I want technology, I want

20:13

cool gadgets. And I want all

20:13

this. And, you know, I think

20:16

they're trying to get there with

20:16

insurtechs. And, you know,

20:18

evolving and some of the

20:18

technology to make it kind of

20:21

cool some of the marketing with

20:21

the bigger like state farms and

20:23

bring in named people that you

20:23

may recognize on TV, and it

20:26

connects with that brand. But

20:26

yeah, it's a challenge to bring

20:29

in younger people that

20:29

understand that we want to

20:32

invest in this person, but also,

20:32

are they going to be around for

20:34

10 years? Are they going to,

20:34

they're going to leave on us

20:36

after a year or two. And we just spent all that time, as you mentioned, training them, and

20:38

now they're gonna they're a great employee at another

20:40

company. We just lost all this

20:43

money. So I think that's the

20:43

it's a challenge. And it's not

20:47

easy. And like I said earlier on

20:47

if if I had the answer, I

20:50

probably making a lot more money

20:50

and providing a lot of advice

20:53

and consulting to companies, but

20:53

I don't unfortunately,

20:56

what's your

20:56

opinion on? I mean, we talked

20:58

about the great resignations,

20:58

and silver tsunami, but you

21:02

know, for those, those young

21:02

people that we are bringing in,

21:06

why did they leave? So quickly?

21:06

You know, what can we do as an

21:10

organization? And what can other

21:10

organizations do to retain them?

21:14

I know, you said, but what have

21:14

you seen successfully happen,

21:18

you know, maybe, and then

21:18

counter that, like, what, what

21:20

generally keeps people to leave

21:20

what keeps them staying, you

21:24

know, in your, in your opinion,

21:24

and what you've experienced?

21:26

Yeah, so I think a

21:26

few things. So on our end, you

21:29

know, as I mentioned early on,

21:29

we do a lot in the contract

21:32

contract to hire for the

21:32

insurance world. So we employ

21:34

people and place them on a

21:34

project, they're employed by

21:36

insure nationals that are

21:36

actually our employee, we're

21:39

taking on all the risk and

21:39

everything of that nature by

21:41

putting this person on a

21:41

project, but my job is to keep

21:44

that person retained for our

21:44

customer. And, you know, it's

21:47

not as easy to keep a contractor

21:47

if you're gonna go to a full

21:49

time job. And so it's actually a

21:49

little harder to keep those

21:52

people interested. So just

21:52

staying engaged with them, and

21:54

honestly, communicating with

21:54

them, not to the point where

21:57

you're annoying, like a used car

21:57

salesman, but also not. Um, so

22:00

you're going to want to make sure that you're keeping in touch with them and giving them

22:02

updates and feedback from how

22:04

their performance is doing, how

22:04

things are working out there.

22:06

But also engaging them in terms

22:06

of, hey, if you're doing well,

22:09

let's let's talk about some type

22:09

of raise, or a bonus, or some

22:12

sort of that nature to make sure

22:12

that their efforts that they're

22:15

putting in are being noticed, I

22:15

think the biggest thing working

22:18

from home, you can feel like

22:18

you're on an island, and a lot

22:20

of our jobs are remote. I mean,

22:20

when you're on an island, you

22:23

don't know if you're doing great, you don't know if you're doing bad. And a lot of times,

22:25

you can get A Surprise Phone

22:27

Call that you weren't expecting,

22:27

and it doesn't work out. But

22:30

also on the flip side, you get a surprise call to say, Hey, I took another opportunity. And

22:32

all you have to do is look

22:34

yourself in the mirror, like what could we have done better. So to your point, you know,

22:36

making sure that the employee is

22:39

happy, making sure that you're

22:39

doing performance reviews with

22:42

and making sure you're understanding how you can help them proceed in their career,

22:43

because I think a lot of it is

22:46

burnt out, I think a lot of

22:46

people just maybe aren't happy.

22:48

But sometimes it is just money.

22:48

I don't want to say it's always

22:51

about money. But if another type

22:51

of job comes crawling, or you

22:54

know knocking at the door, and

22:54

it's offering you a lot more

22:56

money, anybody in the right

22:56

mind, you're gonna consider

22:58

that. Um, however, if they're

22:58

happy in their current job, they

23:01

like their management, they like

23:01

the team, they like the work

23:03

that's being noticed from you

23:03

know, they're being you know, I

23:06

guess rewarded for their hard

23:06

work, it's gonna make it a lot

23:09

harder for that person to leave.

23:09

And they'll second guess leaving

23:12

versus just being like, Okay,

23:12

I'm out of here, if I'm just a

23:14

number to your guys points, I'm

23:14

gonna go somewhere where I feel

23:18

valued. And any interview,

23:18

someone's gonna make you feel

23:20

valid value, they're gonna be

23:20

like, Oh, you're amazing, we

23:22

want you here, they're gonna try

23:22

to sell you come. So when you

23:25

you're really looking for that

23:25

type of feedback. If a recruiter

23:29

calls you and gives you that

23:29

feedback, you're gonna, you're

23:32

going to kind of steer toward

23:32

that if you're not getting it

23:34

from your current employee, kind

23:34

of like dating, I guess, if you

23:36

will?

23:37

No, I think you're

23:37

making a great point. And it

23:40

reminds me when I was about 10

23:40

years ago, I was working for a

23:43

company that went through a

23:43

reorg. And my team was assigned

23:46

in Boston, Massachusetts, so and

23:46

I was in Cincinnati at the time,

23:48

so I had to manage them remotely

23:48

before managing people remotely

23:52

was a thing. You know, so I'd

23:52

read a book on I was trying to

23:55

figure out like how to do this

23:55

because it was all new. And one

23:58

of the things I learned early

23:58

on, and I think it's easy to

24:01

forget, we really should do it

24:01

all the time was just build in

24:04

time, like I would schedule time

24:04

with my people every week, even

24:08

if it was just to check in and

24:08

talk, make the watercooler talk

24:11

that isn't happening naturally.

24:11

Make sure it's happening.

24:14

Because if you don't do those

24:14

little things, two things

24:17

happen. You don't build those

24:17

relationships. But the other

24:20

thing and people don't feel

24:20

wanted are part of the team. But

24:23

I think that other piece you hit

24:23

on is so important feedback that

24:26

there has to be a regular

24:26

channel. If the only time I hear

24:29

from my boss is when I'm in

24:29

trouble, then that's not good.

24:33

But if we're talking every week,

24:33

and there's already something

24:36

set up or every two weeks,

24:36

there's already something set up

24:39

then when there is some kind of

24:39

difficult conversation. There's

24:41

already a challenge channel for

24:41

that. Yeah, and we're talking

24:45

all the time anyway. And I'm

24:45

getting positive feedback also

24:49

broken down when you have a lot of Congress that communication with your

24:51

employees and when you don't, if

24:54

you're not going to get that

24:54

conversation and I think when

24:56

you build a relationship where

24:56

it's easier for them to come you

24:58

say hey, I got a call about This

24:58

interview, I had an interview

25:01

with coming, I'm really considering it like, and it's almost like what I wanted to

25:03

bring this to your attention to I like it here, but is there

25:05

instead of just being like, hey,

25:07

peace, I'm out, it's like, at

25:07

that point, you can go save it

25:11

and say, Hey guys, we have this

25:11

employee, that's amazing. She

25:14

has an offer on the table, she

25:14

informed me because I have a

25:16

relationship with my employee,

25:16

we need to keep her or him. What

25:19

can we do to do this? And you

25:19

know, from that standpoint,

25:22

like, what do you need to stay

25:22

here from us and we can, I can't

25:24

guarantee let's go try to make

25:24

this happen and gives you some

25:27

time to save that employee

25:27

versus the other way where you

25:29

don't communicate with them, you don't have a relationship, and that's when they jump ship and

25:31

go somewhere else. So I think

25:34

that's a great point, just

25:34

having that communication open

25:36

dialogue with your employees is

25:36

big, especially in a virtual

25:38

environment.

25:39

I had a similar

25:39

example where I had an employee

25:42

and she was she was a great

25:42

employee was with us for a

25:45

little over a year. And she she

25:45

herself had a young family and

25:49

one had had come from a large

25:49

carrier and wanted to work

25:52

remote, where she had been doing

25:52

with the prior carrier. And at

25:55

the time, this is pretty COVID

25:55

We we did not allow remote work.

25:59

And she left. And after she left

25:59

I heard through the grapevine

26:03

that all she was asking for was

26:03

one day of remote work. And I

26:06

said, If I would have known that

26:06

we would have made that happen.

26:10

But the communication didn't,

26:10

didn't make its way through the

26:14

appropriate channels until she

26:14

had already made the decision

26:16

and accepted another offer. So I

26:16

mean, I agree with what Greg and

26:20

what you were saying, Chris, as

26:20

well, like, you know,

26:23

communication is key. So many of

26:23

our problems boil down, I feel

26:27

like to communication between

26:27

the parties when we're talking

26:30

about workers comp plans, or

26:30

when we're talking about

26:32

employee relationship issues and

26:32

things. So I mean, I would

26:35

encourage you, if you're an

26:35

employee out there to like, have

26:37

that conversation with your

26:37

supervisor, because as managers,

26:41

you know, we get into these all

26:41

these situations where we're

26:43

texting, or we're emailing our

26:43

employees, and you're like, did

26:46

you really touch base with them?

26:46

You have that one on one

26:50

conversation with your employer

26:50

this week, or today? Or when was

26:54

the last time you actually talked to him? And it's like a Lago message. And now I'm like,

26:55

yeah, just kind of roll back and

26:58

like laugh a little bit. I'm

26:58

like, no, like, you need to call

27:01

them and have a conversation.

27:01

And it doesn't always have to be

27:03

about work. Like you were

27:03

saying, Greg have a conversation

27:06

about their life or what's going

27:06

on in their situation. During

27:09

COVID. I made it a point to call

27:09

everyone in my department, you

27:12

know, I tried to do it monthly,

27:12

but when you have, you know, 45

27:15

people, it was like, Okay, well,

27:15

I'm spending anywhere from 20 to

27:18

30 minutes on each call. So, you

27:18

know, but I was pretty good

27:21

about every six weeks, or every

27:21

eight weeks, I funneled through

27:23

the list. And I had a checklist

27:23

of like, who I called, and I put

27:26

a date back sort of like when I

27:26

last spoke to him and and had

27:29

that kind of conversation more

27:29

more of the Connect conversation

27:33

than, Hey, what's this month's

27:33

results look like? Or how many

27:36

claims that were settling or

27:36

closing, then that was another

27:40

conversation. But I think that

27:40

communication breakdown

27:43

continues to exist, we need to

27:43

be better about that industry

27:46

wide talking with our staff.

27:49

I don't want to say people are lazy, but I think the virtual stuff has caused some

27:51

laziness and to that, just

27:54

emailing, oh, yeah, touch base

27:54

with them. Or if you're in an

27:56

office, it's like, hey, go talk

27:56

to Chris or go talk to Matt, and

28:00

you haven't, then you would go

28:00

and do it versus just being like

28:02

how things going. And it's like,

28:02

it's not a touch point, really,

28:04

it's less personable. And that's

28:04

when people just feel like

28:07

they're on an island. And it's

28:07

already hard as it is virtually

28:10

to do stuff like that. But so

28:10

yeah, it's a great point.

28:13

We talked a lot

28:13

about what what causes people to

28:16

stay? And what are some things

28:16

we can do to keep them? And I

28:19

think you've kind of talked

28:19

about this some Chris, but just

28:22

to make sure we've covered it.

28:22

What are some of the things that

28:25

you feel like when you've seen

28:25

people leave? Because obviously

28:28

you're trying to get people

28:28

placed different places, when

28:31

you see people leave? Or you have a company that you're working with? It's had problems

28:33

with people leaving? What are

28:35

some of the things that drive that?

28:37

Yeah, so I think

28:37

one of the big things I'm seeing

28:40

right now is obviously after the

28:40

pandemic, or during the

28:42

pandemic, I should say a lot of

28:42

there's tons of layoffs, tons of

28:45

furloughs, tons of people

28:45

leaving. And what happened was

28:48

now things are relaxing a little

28:48

bit, and people now companies

28:52

are trying to employ. And so

28:52

they're trying to employ either

28:55

people back that they let go, or

28:55

they're trying to find new

28:58

talent to fill seats. And so

28:58

what's happening is just because

29:00

they had a pandemic projects

29:00

didn't necessarily stop, they

29:03

may have got delay, but now they

29:03

have delivery dates. And so

29:06

what's happening is they're

29:06

bringing these people in, and

29:09

they're not hiring enough

29:09

people. So more work is getting

29:11

put on the people that they're

29:11

bringing in, that are fresh

29:14

hires, and literally six months

29:14

in their birth time. If there's

29:18

not enough help here, I'm gonna

29:18

go to another company that may

29:21

be a little smaller who the

29:21

workload may not be there. I

29:23

mean, even on top of that, if

29:23

you're making the person go into

29:25

work, because there are some companies we partner with, like they have to be an office hybrid

29:27

models or even sometimes hard.

29:30

So when you're putting that much

29:30

work on somebody to the point,

29:34

it causes them to burnout very,

29:34

very fast. So you know, making

29:38

sure that you have enough

29:38

employees to you know, spread

29:40

out the workload, so that

29:40

they're not getting burned out

29:43

because they will leave very

29:43

fast. Secondly, the thing that

29:46

always comes up is always pay.

29:46

If another company comes to pay

29:48

more, they're going to consider

29:48

that especially with the

29:51

uncertainty of the pandemic, um,

29:51

you never know it could always

29:55

happen again, who knows what

29:55

could happen at this point, and

29:57

so you know, they're gonna take

29:57

another higher paying off

30:00

portunity Just because there's

30:00

still some uncertainty, but also

30:03

they probably were let go and

30:03

didn't have a job for a year. So

30:06

if someone's going to come calling, they need a job to pay the bills. But if someone's

30:08

going to pay more money, they're

30:10

really going to consider that

30:10

opportunity. And then lastly, I

30:13

kind of touched on it the work

30:13

from home, obviously, if you

30:15

break it down and work from home

30:15

is number one, Monday through

30:18

Friday, then you kind of go to

30:18

the hybrid model, if they have a

30:20

hybrid model, somewhat

30:20

considerate, if it's flexible to

30:23

their schedule, and not like you have to be your Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but if you're

30:25

like, if you do come into the

30:27

office two days a week, we don't

30:27

care what days they are, just be

30:29

in the office, and you have to

30:29

be there all day, as much

30:32

flexibility as you can provide

30:32

that that employee, the better.

30:35

So I would say those are the

30:35

three things that I'm hearing,

30:37

you know, everybody has their

30:37

reasons, and everybody's

30:39

probably heard everything. But

30:39

that's kind of what I'm hearing

30:41

on my end, just from the

30:41

industry as a whole why people

30:44

would leave, you know, from an

30:44

opportunity, you know,

30:46

and a company works with you guys. And you have a, you know, you're

30:48

basically taking on the

30:51

employment responsibility, you

30:51

know, how are you guys getting

30:54

them up in trained and not

30:54

overwhelming them? How do you,

30:58

you know, how do you guys work

30:58

here, that own problem that you

31:00

just said, you know, as a

31:00

problem for new hires?

31:03

Good question. So

31:03

obviously, a lot of the

31:05

onboarding still falls on or not

31:05

the onboarding, onboarding is

31:08

all on us the training and all

31:08

that falls on whatever customer

31:11

we've replaced that candidate.

31:11

Wait, however, you know,

31:15

obviously, we do all of our

31:15

poor, I make my recruiters touch

31:18

base with them, we have kind of

31:18

an acronym that we utilize

31:21

internally that basically the

31:21

first thing you do in the

31:23

morning is if you have an

31:23

employee working on a customer,

31:27

one of our projects, you're touching base with them, I wouldn't say it's every day,

31:28

maybe two times a week just sees

31:31

how things are going any

31:31

questions, how's the work been?

31:35

We want to get a pulse on how

31:35

things are going. And there's

31:37

certain ways we approach that.

31:37

So going back to my point, you

31:39

don't sound like a used car salesman, you're getting annoying, because again, these

31:41

people are working and they have

31:43

a job now and they have projects

31:43

that they're working on. The

31:45

last thing they want to do is have a conversation with the recruiter that doesn't make

31:47

sense. But we have ways we

31:50

approach those conversations and

31:50

make sure things are going well

31:52

on top of that we actually have

31:52

an account, we have a ton of

31:55

people that right now. And going

31:55

back to my point where the

31:57

workload is just being poured

31:57

over top of them. And people are

32:00

putting in a ton of hours, you

32:00

know, it's stressful. So we

32:03

basically rolled out a bonus

32:03

plan to them. So any hours that

32:06

they work over 40 hours a week,

32:06

they will be incentivized in

32:09

additional amount of money.

32:09

That's not necessarily overtime.

32:11

But you know, because they're

32:11

you don't really qualify for the

32:14

overtime piece based on how much

32:14

they make. But we're just taking

32:17

money out of our pocket to roll

32:17

it out to help our customer

32:20

because, one, I believe they

32:20

deserve it. But we got to come

32:23

up with creative ways internally

32:23

on how we engage and retain our

32:27

employees, for our customers,

32:27

because they're relying on that

32:29

person to do the job. And, you

32:29

know, don't get me wrong, we

32:32

still get called surprise calls

32:32

all the time, no matter how many

32:34

times we touch base somebody, no

32:34

matter how much money we pay

32:38

them that they're leaving for

32:38

another opportunity. So that's

32:40

the nature of the beast. And it's always been that way in the 10 years, I've been doing this,

32:42

it's just how can you save, you

32:45

know, that law of thirds, kind

32:45

of that little piece of the pie

32:49

that you know, that are on the

32:49

fence? How can you save those

32:51

people and make sure they're

32:51

happy? And whether that's money

32:54

or hybrid model or figuring out

32:54

to your point? Do you just need

32:56

a day a week? Let me go to my

32:56

customer see if they're flexible

32:59

with that, in today's world,

32:59

they probably are. So it's a

33:02

little bigger conversation than

33:02

what it was three years ago. But

33:05

yeah, that's that's that's some

33:05

of the things that we do just on

33:08

our end from a creative

33:08

standpoint, or try to

33:10

want to think what's hard from a claims perspective. And that you've

33:12

probably seen this too, is I

33:15

don't know that people who

33:15

aren't in the industry really

33:17

understand that it's a conveyor

33:17

belt that's running all the

33:19

time, you know, like it runs,

33:19

whether there are you're fully

33:23

staffed or not, the claims are

33:23

getting reported, and they need

33:27

to be handled, they need to be

33:27

investigated, bills need to be

33:29

paid. And so it's kind of

33:29

sometimes like that Lucille Ball

33:33

Chocolate Factory thing where

33:33

you've got, you know, it just

33:36

keeps common. And so I think one

33:36

of the challenges that I've seen

33:40

on our end is just making sure

33:40

that we're prepared for the fact

33:43

that if somebody resigns

33:43

tomorrow, what are we what's our

33:46

plan that we're going to have in

33:46

place so that the rest of the

33:50

team isn't getting overloaded?

33:50

Because especially if you're

33:53

talking about bringing somebody

33:53

in without experience, or

33:56

somebody from another industry,

33:56

it may take them three months to

33:59

a year before, they're actually

33:59

really adding help? Because they

34:04

got to get licensed, they got to

34:04

learn the industry, or they got

34:06

to learn the systems. So there's

34:06

a lot of challenges involved in

34:09

that man. Is there anything

34:09

you'd want to add to that?

34:12

I think you hit

34:12

on and I, I do have one

34:14

question. Just final final

34:14

question for me. And I know you

34:17

have a final question to Greg

34:17

but, you know, we see these

34:21

industries in claims. I don't

34:21

see it as often I do

34:24

occasionally when I get out in

34:24

an audit, where there's the

34:27

foosball table and popcorn

34:27

machine and they bring in

34:30

doughnuts and they have the

34:30

basketball court. And I know

34:32

you're Chris, you're a

34:32

basketball player. And is that

34:35

helpful for staff retention? How

34:35

much of it is the atmosphere

34:39

like it maybe COVID blew this

34:39

all up? Because people don't

34:42

want to be in the building as

34:42

much anymore but how much is it

34:46

the environment that contributes

34:46

to you know, the feel and look

34:50

and yes,

34:51

yeah, so in my

34:51

early days, I loved it. I was

34:54

like, this is pretty cool. Like

34:54

that's one of the reasons why I

34:57

left my IT staffing job for a

34:57

software job because The company

35:00

I went to Qualtrics had an

35:00

amazing, it was the coolest

35:03

office ever seen coolest

35:03

environment, they had drinks,

35:05

snack food, all that. And I

35:05

never had that I was like, Oh,

35:08

this is an experience I've never

35:08

had before. What I'm seeing

35:11

today is the younger generation,

35:11

they don't care about that

35:13

stuff, I think the pandemic blew

35:13

it up, they want flexibility,

35:16

they want remote work, where

35:16

they can run to the grocery

35:18

store, whenever they ask, and

35:18

still put in their hours, the

35:21

younger generation works later

35:21

into the night versus having to

35:24

get up earlier. So it's kind of

35:24

like, Hey, as long as you're

35:27

getting your work done, you know, and you're not putting me in a box where I have to be

35:29

somewhere eight to five, which

35:31

is the professional world. And

35:31

that's what I was raised on is

35:34

you know, kind of that military,

35:34

you know, structure type of

35:36

thing. And that's what I'm known

35:36

for. But I think these this

35:39

younger generation coming in is

35:39

I want flexibility. I want to be

35:42

able to work from home, I don't

35:42

want someone just micromanaging

35:45

me, I guess, if you will, but also someone who's gonna provide me leadership and get me to the

35:46

next level in my career. And so

35:50

yeah, it's a I think the office

35:50

environment kind of blew up a

35:54

little bit. However, if you do

35:54

have people coming into the

35:57

office, no one's gonna want to

35:57

go sit in a cubicle, it's not

35:59

going to, you're it's gonna be

35:59

awkward, you got to have some

36:04

type of space, that's an I

36:04

guess, inviting, but you know,

36:07

our office, we do the snacks and

36:07

stuff like that, but I don't, I

36:10

don't do it. Because I think

36:10

it's going to, like attracts

36:13

people to our company more and

36:13

less, probably for me, so I can

36:16

drink Dr. Peppers all day. And

36:16

he's, my employees like it too.

36:20

And it goes really fast. So as

36:20

long as it's going fast, I know

36:23

they like it. But I don't think that's the thing that's gonna keep them here to be honest with

36:25

you. So put it like, yeah,

36:27

you're gonna have to have some people coming to the office, you got to have some type of cool

36:29

environment. And if you're going

36:31

to do a hybrid model, have other

36:31

people in the office with that

36:34

person, because you don't want

36:34

people coming in on Thursday,

36:36

the only person there on their

36:36

floor, and then it's like, Why?

36:38

Why am I here? So make sure

36:38

there have some social

36:41

interaction as well. That's great.

36:43

What are you building?

36:45

I think that's the

36:45

number one takeaway is we know,

36:47

we need to look at that and make

36:47

sure we're being mindful that

36:49

and of course, is always an issue.

36:52

Especially

36:52

basketball court. That's what I

36:54

took away. Great.

36:58

Well, Chris, as we

36:58

wrap things up, one of the

37:00

things I'm doing this season is

37:00

there's just I felt like in

37:04

general, the last three years

37:04

have been hard for everybody in

37:06

different ways. And it's hard

37:06

not to turn on the TV and hear

37:09

some pretty negative stuff,

37:09

whether it's you know, wars that

37:12

are going on or COVID disease,

37:12

one of the things I wanted to

37:15

focus on this year is some of

37:15

the good things that are going

37:18

on, because I really believe

37:18

they're out there. We just had

37:20

our sixth kid and I wouldn't

37:20

have done that it was

37:22

intentional, crazy, but

37:22

intentional. Because I really do

37:26

believe that this world is worth

37:26

worth BNN. So, Chris, if you

37:30

could I'd love it if you could

37:30

share a memory of a time that

37:32

you were truly happy. And what

37:32

were you doing? And who are you

37:36

with?

37:37

Yeah, so it was

37:37

probably my honeymoon to be

37:39

honest with you. I was with my

37:39

wife. I'm a huge I love the

37:42

beach. I'm not a cold weather

37:42

guy being in Texas, oh, and ice

37:46

in the mountains. And that's not

37:46

me. I love the heat and the

37:49

beach and the ocean. So you

37:49

know, my wife and I went on our

37:52

honeymoon. And they got they

37:52

gave me time to get away from

37:55

everything. I'm usually always

37:55

on event we get on other

37:58

vacations, I'm always having my

37:58

computer, she gives me a hard

38:01

time I'm at the beach and I'm like computer open and I'm answering emails. And to me

38:03

that's still relaxing, I'm not

38:06

in an office, but we're gonna

38:06

spend time together, get off of

38:09

your computers. But at that

38:09

time, that week we had together

38:13

I literally turned it off. And

38:13

that's that's hard for me. But I

38:16

got to spend time with her. It

38:16

was super relaxing. You know, I

38:19

came back to a crap show. But it

38:19

is and that's why I usually try

38:26

to work. But honestly, just

38:26

getting away turning off for a

38:29

while was with my wife, you

38:29

know, we had probably the best

38:32

trip we've ever had. And it was

38:32

just fun in general. And it got

38:35

away from you know, even then it

38:35

was there was a lot of stuff

38:37

going on in the world. And you

38:37

know, we just got away and had a

38:40

good time. And we try to mimic

38:40

that but as we've gotten older

38:43

just isn't the same. And so that

38:43

that always on my mind, every

38:46

trip we go on, I try to that's

38:46

the bar and we just haven't been

38:48

able to surpass that yet. And I

38:48

always bring that up when I talk

38:51

to people about you know, what's

38:51

your favorite trip, or this

38:53

isn't kind of a time where you

38:53

were happy in your life? Yep.

38:56

Again, we were honeymooners and

38:56

just married, so it was even

38:59

better. But yeah, it was just a

38:59

good time all around. And that's

39:01

the vivid memory that sticks in

39:01

my head. That's awesome.

39:05

I Be Where Your

39:05

Feet are. That's what we would

39:07

say I had some friends and

39:07

that's where we push each other.

39:10

So if you're at work, be where

39:10

your feet are. If you're at

39:12

home, beware your feet or if

39:12

you're on the beach, you know be

39:15

where your feet are. So I like

39:15

to manage that. I'm sure someone

39:21

much brighter than me said it. I

39:21

just feel the quote.

39:25

Hey, man, I'm gonna

39:25

keep that one I think I don't

39:27

think we could end it any

39:27

better. So I think that's a good

39:30

message to wrap things up with

39:30

is remember to be where your

39:33

feet are. And Chris, appreciate

39:33

you joining us. We had a great

39:36

conversation today. Just remind

39:36

people again, if they want to

39:40

follow us on the blog, it

39:40

releases on the off weeks