0:06

Well, I'm really excited to present

0:09

to you today a brand new exclusive

0:11

series that we've created here at Adventure

0:13

Rider Radio called Deep Trouble.

0:17

Deep Trouble is about that underlying

0:19

framework that really fuels adventure.

0:21

The framework that is essentially the

0:23

possibility that something could go wrong.

0:26

Because if there was no risk, there would be no

0:28

edge, no thrill, no excitement.

0:31

And although we don't really want to experience something

0:34

going wrong for ourselves, the fact that

0:36

it's possible, even remotely, is what

0:38

fuels adventure. And for some more than

0:40

others, a rider could be thrilled by

0:43

making it through a muddy section, up a

0:45

rocky hill, through a river, knowing

0:47

that the result could be getting stuck, breaking

0:49

the bike, or sucking water into the engine. No

0:52

one wants that. But nothing

0:54

beats the satisfaction you get for

0:56

making it through a tough section. For

0:59

another rider, it's crossing foreign borders,

1:01

riding far from home, dealing with languages

1:04

and customs they don't yet understand, and

1:06

exploring new and far-off places.

1:09

We riders are a modern type of

1:11

adventure, out there, exposed

1:13

to the elements, rider and machine. Of

1:15

course, we don't want to drop our bike in the river, or get stuck

1:18

in some remote place in another country, or

1:20

held up at a border. But it's kind

1:22

of like walking out on a high cliff,

1:24

overlooking a vast valley. The

1:26

thrill that you get, just by approaching

1:29

it, the sensation that the edge is

1:31

near. Not just the thrill of danger,

1:34

but it's only when you get close to that edge, that

1:36

you're able to see the vista beyond.

1:39

It's adventure, like riding a motorcycle.

1:42

And with Deep Trouble, we'll explore captivating

1:45

stories of riders who found themselves in deep

1:47

trouble. We'll dissect these situations,

1:50

shedding light on the challenges they faced,

1:52

the strategies they used, the valuable lessons

1:55

they learned. Most critically, we'll

1:57

discuss how the situation could have turned out

1:59

differently.

1:59

differently if some of the controlled

2:02

aspects were changed. We'll talk about

2:04

the possibilities and potential outcomes so

2:07

that perhaps other riders can learn from

2:09

their experiences and avoid making mistakes

2:11

themselves and getting into deep

2:14

trouble. I'm Jim Martin,

2:16

this is Adventure Rider Radio. Stay with

2:18

us, we got a good one for you. And

2:30

you've done some World Series things

2:32

either in person ret

2:37

or with a

2:49

car.

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2:59

Rider

2:59

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3:44

Well, our first deep trouble story today is

3:46

from Spencer Conway. Spencer travels

3:48

the globe now with his partner, Kathy, filming

3:51

their adventures for television while they

3:53

sort of loosely attempt for Spencer

3:55

to be the first person to circumnavigate all continents.

4:00

this adventure he was traveling alone just him in

4:02

his Yamaha motorcycle he was circumnavigating

4:05

Africa and it was after that that Kathy

4:07

joined him and started riding with him and doing the videography.

4:10

This story is from that first trip around

4:13

Africa when Spencer was traveling alone.

4:17

Hi Jim yeah I mean we're talking about I think

4:19

we're talking about deep trouble here and now this

4:21

was actually when I first started

4:24

on this whole palava of trying to circumnavigate

4:26

every continent so it was in 2010.

4:29

So this is your original trip you're

4:31

setting out you did the whole plans to circumnavigate

4:34

every continent but you're alone you're riding by

4:36

yourself on your bike.

4:38

Absolutely and obviously it was early on in

4:40

the trip yes I was alone obviously I had a camera

4:42

on my helmet I had a camera handheld

4:45

camera and the whole idea was

4:47

to circumnavigate the whole of Africa

4:50

on my own so obviously I started in London

4:52

then I went through obviously Tunisia

4:55

Libya Egypt Sudan Ethiopia Kenya

4:57

and Kenya is where my

5:00

deep trouble started. Okay

5:03

well we'll talk about that so just

5:05

describe what you're into at this point

5:07

in the trip. Absolutely absolutely

5:10

so I'm coming up to the border post now I know

5:12

a lot of people really don't like borders

5:14

they see in them as there's a big big hassle

5:17

but for me I find them very very exciting

5:20

I think what people do is they get very frustrated

5:22

and sort of confrontational and that's not

5:25

going to work with anybody you know borders

5:27

work on a different time so I tend to just

5:29

enjoy you know the the colors

5:32

the sounds you know the vegetables the fruits

5:34

the baskets and the people running

5:36

around lifting goats onto buses etc

5:39

I find it very exciting but on

5:42

this particular occasion this is the border

5:44

between Moiale border

5:46

in the north of Kenya and it's

5:49

a 587 kilometer route

5:51

down to the capital Nairobi.

5:54

Now the northern area is

5:57

fairly dodgy it's an area

5:59

where they have Somali bandits

6:01

because Mogadishu, the

6:04

capital is directly east of where

6:06

my incident happened,

6:08

which I'll get to in a minute, but

6:10

they train Somali bandits in that

6:12

area, but on top of that they

6:14

have these Kenyan guys called Boran

6:17

shifters and these are cattlemen

6:19

but they're sort of out of society in

6:21

a way and they have a lot of guns and

6:23

they have a lot of disputes between each other.

6:26

Now what happened was I broke

6:28

my golden rule gym and I got

6:30

frustrated and after about five

6:33

hours or so of waiting

6:35

and waiting while they were loading things... This

6:38

story, this is at the border crossing? You're talking

6:40

about you stopped at the border crossing? Yes, absolutely.

6:43

So this is at the border as I'm coming into

6:45

Kenya with Somalia on my eastern

6:47

side.

6:48

Right, so what's your feeling there? Because you just

6:50

mentioned that it's kind of a shifty area, the Boran

6:52

shifters I think is what you called them and

6:55

then there's the Somali bandits. What

6:58

was your feeling? Are you uneasy at

7:00

that point?

7:01

Uneasy is the right word Jim. I

7:03

think fear is the wrong word. It wasn't quite

7:05

that bad. In fact, I did

7:07

do a report during that actual program

7:09

when I was at the border because

7:12

I'd heard about people being shot

7:14

on that road and I did a little thing

7:16

to camera saying, oh well I hope everything goes

7:18

okay, but then after that I was

7:20

a little bit stupid and I think you

7:23

know sometimes you walk into situations

7:26

when you're not thinking too straight. Obviously

7:29

leaving this border on that road

7:31

is standard to have a convoy

7:34

so they have an army truck at the front, they

7:36

have an army truck at the back and you

7:38

know the overland trucks and the vegetable

7:40

people etc. are in the center

7:43

and I was supposed to do that with them because

7:45

it's a very desolate area and as I said

7:47

they've got those groups there but

7:50

I went to the army after about five

7:52

hours of waiting and I said, would I

7:54

be able to leave? Is it okay if I go on

7:56

my own? And he just shrugged his shoulders

7:58

and said, yeah, yeah. go for it. And

8:01

about 25 minutes later, I got attacked,

8:04

Jim. Well, hang on a sec. So are

8:06

you concerned about, I mean, there's a whole

8:08

idea that you've got an escort there that everyone

8:11

else is waiting for the escort. What

8:13

are you thinking here? Sure, sure.

8:16

Well, you know, I was talking to this

8:19

about this with Kathy about deep trouble, how

8:21

there's different levels of it. You know what I

8:23

mean? I mean, a bad day can be

8:25

when you're soaking wet, or it could be altitude

8:27

sickness, or you know, you could have a bad tummy

8:30

or, you know, and then there's other levels

8:32

of it. And you don't actually expect

8:35

to get attacked. It's not really

8:37

in your frame of reference. So I like

8:40

to think positive and go, Oh,

8:42

well, that happened to that person. But, you

8:44

know, the world over it often

8:47

depends on the situation and the timing.

8:50

So you can't predict everything. So I

8:53

just tried to plan as much as possible that

8:55

I also make errors. And we've got

8:58

in trouble a couple of times because

9:00

of my errors in decision making.

9:02

But what you're saying is you assessing

9:04

the risk and you figure, yeah, there's a heightened

9:06

risk, but not enough to really be super

9:08

concerned.

9:09

Absolutely. That's exactly it. And

9:12

I mean, obviously, I don't want to get shot at,

9:14

but I do find difficult situations

9:17

quite exciting, the adrenaline

9:19

of it.

9:20

When they said go ahead, and you rode

9:22

away, what are you feeling?

9:24

I was feeling great because I mean,

9:26

it's an absolutely stunning area. It's beautiful.

9:29

There's incredible thorns, trees and

9:32

bright red Murram roads, which is the

9:34

kind of dirt that they have there. Very,

9:37

very beautiful. So in fact, I was actually

9:39

feeling quite great about it. And

9:42

the first 20 minutes or so

9:44

is riding along nice and steadily. Just

9:47

actually, to be honest, Jim, I'd forgotten

9:50

about the warnings.

9:51

Oh, so you're you're in total

9:53

bliss there. Do you have any indication

9:56

before something happens that there might be something

9:58

about to happen?

9:59

On that particular occasion, I should

10:02

have taken it on board and I should have stayed with the convoy,

10:04

but I didn't. And then you just get into

10:06

the whole riding feeling, don't you?

10:08

And oh my God, look at that view and

10:10

look at that road ahead of me. And

10:13

to be totally honest, I mean, Africa is incredibly

10:16

friendly. So whenever you see

10:18

anybody on the side of the road

10:20

or anything, they're always waving and shouting

10:23

and just being absolutely wonderful. So

10:25

it's a standard thing for me. So when I

10:27

came around this particular corner and I

10:30

saw these three fellows

10:32

on top of a hill on a rock, I

10:35

just gave them a massive wave. And

10:38

instead of waving back, one of them pulled up

10:40

a machine gun, an AK-47

10:43

Kalashnikov, and started shooting

10:45

at me.

10:46

Wow. Do you see him?

10:48

You're seeing the three of them sit up there. You

10:51

see him stand up. Do you understand immediately

10:53

what's about to happen?

10:54

No, not at all. I thought they were going to

10:56

stand up and wave like 99.9% of people. It's

11:00

only when a few seconds

11:03

later and I saw the gun and then you hear the noises

11:06

and then you're off the bike. It's also instantaneous.

11:08

What do you mean, hear the noise? Now walk through that. What

11:11

exactly happened? So he raises the gun, fires

11:14

it, I'm assuming you're hearing the shots.

11:16

That's exactly what happened. You hear the shots and

11:18

then one of them hit the brake caliper on

11:20

my motorbike. Another one hit

11:23

the swing arm and put a hole in it and

11:26

another one hit the tire and

11:28

took the tire off. Yeah,

11:30

that is incredible. It doesn't

11:32

get any closer than that. It doesn't. Sorry

11:36

to interrupt you Jim. I didn't mean that. If

11:39

you consider where your foot is sitting

11:41

on your footrest in relation to your swing

11:43

arm, it was literally missed

11:45

me by millimeters. And

11:48

if I'd been hitting even in the leg badly

11:50

by a bullet, that would have been

11:52

it. I think it would have all been over.

11:54

So I mean, I'm thinking glass half full

11:56

at this stage. What happened? So the tire blew.

12:00

and how did you go down?

12:01

I went down on my right hand

12:03

side and at that time I didn't know I

12:05

broke three ribs. I also got a bit of the brake

12:07

caliper through my arm. So I mean

12:10

I was bleeding and injured and

12:12

I picked up the bike and you

12:14

know, very luckily we've got electric starts

12:17

obviously on the motorbike. I

12:19

just pressed that, the bike started. The

12:21

tire had shredded, it was

12:23

unbelievable. So I just rode

12:26

off with that and I was expecting

12:28

to obviously get shot in the back because

12:30

when I looked around these guys were running down the

12:32

hill towards me.

12:34

And I thought okay, we'll just ride and

12:36

nothing happened.

12:37

No gunshots. So

12:39

I got just a couple of kilometers

12:42

more and then I just rode straight into the bush

12:45

and ran, lay

12:47

my bike down and I just ran into

12:49

the bush until I felt fairly

12:52

safe. Did you know you weren't hit at that

12:54

point? Because you got blood and you've got injuries?

12:56

Oh, I knew I was injured. I knew I was injured

12:59

but I just had to get away from them. But you didn't know

13:01

if you were shot or if it was from falling?

13:03

No, I didn't know at that stage. I didn't know

13:05

what it was all about. I

13:08

realized that I hadn't got a

13:10

direct bullet shot, Jim.

13:12

I mean, I would have known that immediately but I knew

13:14

that there was something wrong. I had a piece of metal or something

13:16

in my arm. But

13:19

I got into this position and I lay down

13:21

there and I literally stayed there all night

13:23

to try and get myself out

13:26

of this situation. I just didn't want them

13:28

to find me. So your bike is sort

13:30

of hidden. You've dumped it right in the bush the best you

13:32

can. It ran off and you just lay down

13:34

in one spot and stay there. That must have been

13:36

terrifying.

13:37

It was absolutely terrifying. And

13:39

strangely enough, I mean, it's Kenya. People

13:42

think it's warm there all the

13:44

time but if you're lying out in the rain all night,

13:47

it gets very, very cold and you're

13:49

shaking and obviously you've got the adrenaline

13:51

of the escape. So you're feeling

13:53

really, really freaked out and

13:56

very down. But the thing is to

13:58

not

13:59

totally.

13:59

panic and I know that sounds ridiculous.

14:02

I just knew I got to stay still and

14:04

not make a noise and if they're

14:06

not here within a while, they're not coming

14:09

and that's what happened.

14:10

But I was literally too scared to

14:12

actually leave and get up and go back to the road and

14:15

see if my bike was there.

14:16

What goes through your mind as you're laying there

14:18

hour after hour?

14:20

Okay, well the first thing was I knew there was something

14:22

wrong with my chest.

14:23

So when I was breathing, the

14:26

compressions, it was very, very painful.

14:29

So I suspected that I had something broken

14:31

there. The second thing, I mean, you've got

14:33

all night to think about things. The second

14:35

thing I thought was, okay, maybe my bike's gone,

14:38

you know, and I'm done for. The third thing

14:40

I thought was

14:41

that was really stupid. You made a mistake

14:43

and you deserve this. Well, not deserve

14:45

it, but you understand. I made a

14:47

decision to go alone. I've been warned that it

14:50

was dangerous and I felt bad.

14:52

It was a bad decision by me.

14:55

You're probably laying there beating yourself up for it. But

14:57

in reality, I mean, like we can do this

14:59

with anything that goes wrong in life, right? I mean, there's always

15:02

a chance for you to avoid something and

15:05

then something goes wrong. I mean, you know, all

15:07

the times you would make it through. I always talk about the kitchen

15:09

knife that falls off the counter and you grab it before it hits

15:11

the ground. You think, oh, wow, that was lucky. I

15:13

didn't grab the blade. You know, that's such a simple

15:16

thing compared to what you're going through. But

15:19

still, it could go either way. But

15:21

we do tend to blame ourselves. But is it really

15:23

your fault? I mean, you're there. You're

15:26

traveling.

15:27

Sure. Sure. But what I mean is

15:29

obviously, I mean, I can't justify

15:31

them shooting at me. But what I think was if I'd

15:33

been with the convoy, I wouldn't have been attacked.

15:36

So in a sense, that's

15:38

my fault. But, you know, it's the same

15:40

thing going back to levels again, Jim, isn't

15:43

it? I mean, adventure motorcyclings, as

15:45

we all know, and your listeners will know, it's

15:47

not all about getting shot. But Kathy

15:49

and I have always had this attitude of

15:52

going to some very dangerous places

15:54

and peaking the most difficult roads and

15:57

not avoiding things, trying to sort

15:59

of get out of the way. soak up all of life's

16:01

experiences. And if you go with

16:03

that sort of attitude, things can go wrong,

16:05

can't they?

16:07

Mm-hmm. What did

16:09

you change or did you change anything from that

16:11

experience of the way you do things?

16:16

I hope to think I'm a little bit more

16:18

organized and not as much of a risk

16:21

taker, but Kathy is sitting next

16:23

to me right now shaking her head, saying

16:25

I haven't changed at all. So you

16:27

didn't learn anything from this. Even though

16:30

you can tell it in a sort

16:32

of a school-like fashion, in other words, tell us what

16:34

went wrong, where you went wrong, what the problem

16:36

was, you still didn't actually take anything away

16:39

from that. I mean, not in a permanent way.

16:41

I'll tell you what, it's like there are people

16:43

that help you. That's the thing that comes to the

16:45

fore. Instead of looking at the negative

16:47

side, the people who shot you. Because, for

16:50

example, when I eventually got

16:52

to hospital and got sorted out in

16:55

Nairobi, I phoned Kathy and

16:57

I said, oh, I'm giving up. And she said, no, you're not.

17:00

And

17:01

it kind of pushes

17:03

you and you sit back and think, yeah, obviously,

17:05

this is ridiculous. It's only two people on

17:09

a 200,000-kilometer trip or whatever. And

17:12

they can't ruin your life and ruin your experiences

17:15

just because of one bad situation. It

17:17

did affect you quite heavily at the time. Absolutely.

17:20

It was enough to make you rethinking

17:22

the whole plan, which I guess

17:25

is pretty natural for something that severe.

17:27

Yes, I think what everyone says,

17:29

you know, this thing about retrospect and also

17:32

for taking time for things to sink

17:34

in. I think at first, even

17:36

the first week or the first two weeks, your

17:39

adrenaline has taken over so much and you're so

17:41

happy that you're actually okay.

17:43

And on top of that, I mean, I was very

17:46

busy

17:47

straight afterwards, you know, doing

17:49

radio and TV interviews in Kenya

17:51

about the whole thing that

17:54

it didn't really sink in. And it was only when I

17:56

headed off again out of

17:58

Kenya into Tanzania. And then

18:00

you've got that headspace again. You're on your

18:02

bike again. You're away from people again,

18:05

and it starts Circulating in your

18:07

mind a little bit and then you realize oh dear.

18:09

Okay. I have been affected by this

18:12

Hmm,

18:13

and you do you know when people say oh

18:16

after that mugging or after this happened to

18:18

me or after this robbery You know, I found

18:20

myself looking behind my back.

18:22

Yeah,

18:23

that's exactly what you do You you know,

18:25

you hear a loud noise and you jump and things

18:27

like that and you think it hasn't affected

18:29

your psyche But it has I'm

18:31

not saying fear. I'm saying a memory

18:34

that wasn't pleasant It keeps popping

18:37

back into your head, but you're saying

18:39

it's sort of added to your wisdom. I guess as

18:41

a writer and writer traveler Did

18:45

you feel differently because you've had that experience?

18:47

I mean when something happens now Do you sort

18:49

of have a different level of dealing

18:51

with things now even the fact that you're saying that you

18:54

have to wait a while Until things calm down. Did you understand

18:56

that or live that better now because of that

18:58

experience? No, totally and I think you

19:00

have to live through it But also,

19:03

you know Jim, I was very lucky because on the on

19:05

the second circumnavigation We had other

19:07

problems as well, but I'm I was

19:09

with Kathy and Kathy's a very tough character,

19:12

too So that that was a great

19:14

help for me I'm not saying she's like a social

19:16

crutch to me because she's my partner,

19:18

but she it was a

19:19

it was a great help and

19:21

Yeah, yeah when you're alone, you

19:23

need to internalize everything and deal with it

19:25

and and of course when you get to

19:29

The cities that you you use other

19:31

people to help you out not use them But you

19:33

take their advice you listen to them and

19:36

a lot of people want to help you Because they realize

19:38

that you've been through a tough time and I think

19:40

things like that I mean, that's very very

19:43

deep trouble, isn't it getting getting attacked like

19:45

that? I think it probably takes years to

19:47

sort of to go away

19:50

And and I mean you say I sound very

19:52

matter-of-fact about it, but I obviously

19:54

I've spoken to family I've spoken to friends.

19:57

I've spoken to you about it

19:59

in the past and

19:59

That all helps as well. It helps

20:02

you level the whole thing out.

20:04

You're riding the same bike today as what you

20:06

were back then. Do you still have the swing arm with

20:08

a hole in it? No, that's a

20:11

hilarious story, Jim. It

20:13

was sent off, the bike was sent off for its MOT,

20:15

which is, I don't know, MOT

20:18

is Ministry of Transport. Yeah, it's basically

20:21

to make sure your bike's legal and roadworthy.

20:24

And I took it to Lagunas in England

20:27

after the shooting, because it went back to England. The

20:30

mechanics phoned me up and he said, I

20:32

was the one that wanted to call you. I begged

20:35

them to let me call, because this

20:37

is the only time I've ever been able to

20:39

say this.

20:40

Your bike has failed its roadworthy

20:42

test because of a bullet hole. So

20:44

they made you replace the

20:47

swing arm. Now,

20:50

did you keep that? Is it on your wall somewhere, or on a wall

20:52

somewhere? No, it comes to bike

20:54

shows with us. So when we load

20:56

up the van with everything, you know, all the posters and

20:58

the DVDs and the books and the motorbike and

21:00

everything, we take the swing arm with us as well.

21:03

Oh, very cool. Yeah, no, absolutely. And

21:05

yeah, we have that bike. That bike is

21:08

actually, I've just stripped it apart and putting

21:10

it back together. And we have a second bike too,

21:12

but it's a Tenerace, the same bike. It's

21:15

an XT660Z as well.

21:16

But as I said, the original one,

21:19

I'm hoping we can get it around the whole world without

21:21

any more shooting incidents. Yes,

21:23

absolutely. Well, I'm so glad you were untouched

21:26

by the bullets anyway in that one. Thanks so much, Spencer.

21:29

Yeah, no, absolutely. No, it's a pleasure.

21:38

That

21:41

was Spencer Conway. His website is

21:43

spencer-conway.com. We've

21:46

got that link in the show notes for this episode on our website,

21:48

adventureriderradio.com. We're gonna

21:50

take a quick break while I tell you about something. But when we come back, we've

21:52

got another story. This one from Clinton Smote,

21:55

where he learned to vote while trying to fit in with

21:57

another culture and maybe being

21:58

a little too ambitious.

22:27

You may have read a book called University

22:29

of Gravel Roads. If you haven't, you should. University

22:32

of Gravel Roads. It's about a guy rides around

22:34

the world on $25 a day. He completely falls in love with overlanding

22:38

by motorcycle, rides everywhere, runs out

22:40

of money. I mean there's so much adventure in this. He

22:42

spends far more time doing it than he planned and

22:45

then in the end he decides to share those

22:47

places and what he found with other riders.

22:50

First through his book, University of Gravel Roads,

22:52

and then talks that he did, and then

22:55

through these incredible motorcycle

22:57

tours. That guy is Rene

23:00

Cormier. And Rene has twice

23:02

been nominated to the Canadian Motorcycle Hall

23:04

of Fame and back in 2012 he

23:06

was selected to join the Ted Simon Foundation's

23:08

Jupiter Travel Committee of Advisors. Rene's

23:12

company is called Reneadian

23:14

Adventures. Reneadian Adventures.

23:17

Rene and his team of full-time guides and backup

23:20

crew now run motorcycle trips all

23:22

over the world. Africa, Mongolia,

23:25

South America, Scotland, New Zealand,

23:28

Canada. These are upscale boutique

23:30

accommodation adventures, not like what

23:32

Rene did on his trip, but they're

23:35

small groups under 10 bikes per group. His

23:37

tours are largely selected from his own

23:39

favorite places that Rene experienced on

23:42

his trip around the world that feature big

23:44

landscapes and not many people.

23:47

So if you want a real motorcycle adventure

23:50

check out Reneadian.com.

23:52

That's Reneadian.com. And

23:55

when you do, of course, mention there that you heard him here

23:57

on Adventure Rider Radio. Reneadian.com.

24:02

This next story is from Clinton Smout

24:04

who is the chief instructor at Smart Adventures

24:07

in Ontario, Canada. Clinton

24:09

is also well known from our writer skills segments.

24:11

If you're a regular listener to the show, you'll recognize

24:13

his voice immediately. Now, some stories

24:16

have a real humorous side that,

24:18

you know, you get a laugh out of, but you can also learn some

24:20

things from it. And in this story, Clinton

24:22

learns about, well, possibly being

24:25

a little overexcited to embrace another

24:27

culture without enough planning

24:29

to pull it off successfully. So

24:32

think Jim, a new

24:34

model of ATV has come out

24:37

and most manufacturers will hold

24:40

a dealer meeting annually.

24:42

And it showcases all

24:45

the new products, you know, street, dirt,

24:47

ATV that the company has created.

24:51

And I was asked to attend one of these dealer

24:53

meetings, which is quite common. You've

24:56

attended them before, in other words. Yeah,

24:58

many times. And

25:01

the real rationale is not

25:03

that Clinton is such a great guy, it's

25:06

that he's a chief instructor. So

25:08

for due diligence, if

25:10

there's going to be riding at

25:13

these events, the manufacturer

25:15

thinks, you know what, let's get one of those

25:18

chief instructor people and

25:20

they can kind of monitor and set

25:22

up the test rides. And

25:25

you know, if anything was to go wrong,

25:28

then you know what, we are at arm's

25:30

length. We had this chief instructor

25:32

person there. They've covered

25:34

their butts, so to speak. But

25:37

so this is the event that you're describing, though, it's

25:40

not inside some hotel somewhere. It's

25:42

an outdoor thing where they've got a course set up

25:44

and you've got ATVs to ride.

25:47

And this ATV manufacturer is also

25:49

a motorcycle manufacturer. Yes. I

25:51

didn't want to say their name, but let's say it's a Japanese

25:54

manufacturer. And

25:57

it was at a big resort, very,

25:59

very... fancy because you want to attract the

26:02

dealers to come to the resort from

26:04

across Canada or the US

26:06

when they're held there. They're all over

26:08

the world. And there's seminars

26:11

that showcase with PowerPoint

26:13

and movies the new product.

26:16

It's kind of a rah, rah, rah, we're doing

26:18

great. You should feel good about

26:20

being a dealer. Right. This

26:23

is a big event that the manufacturer puts on.

26:25

There's a lot goes into this. It

26:27

really is. Huge money spent, including

26:31

hiring a chief instructor.

26:33

That's not huge money. But so I

26:35

was at an off-road location

26:38

and we had a couple telephone poles

26:40

to show and illustrate

26:43

how this new ATV suspension

26:45

was fantastic and it could climb

26:48

over things. And

26:50

then buses would show up full

26:52

of dealers and they would

26:54

put on a helmet, some gardening

26:57

gloves and some safety glasses.

27:00

And we would take them out on trail

27:02

rides that were designed to

27:04

showcase the attributes of

27:06

this new product. So

27:08

when I was asked to go, I said, oh, that sounds

27:11

like fun. How many staff can

27:13

I bring? What's the budget? And they said,

27:15

Clinton, all the staff are there. We just need

27:17

you, buddy. So I

27:19

show up early. There's all the

27:22

ATVs. We had 60 of them.

27:24

So just imagine a

27:27

field full of brands banking

27:29

new ATVs. The

27:32

day prior to dealers

27:34

arriving, we test rode everyone,

27:37

make sure the fluids were all topped up,

27:39

et cetera. We set up our

27:41

training area. I knew this

27:43

particular forest, very rocky,

27:45

very rough, and it was very muddy. But

27:49

I met the staff that were going to

27:51

work for me. And I was

27:54

like, oh, this crazy guy, Nate,

27:57

who I won't tell you his last name, Casey

28:00

I'm sure he listens. But he's

28:02

from the far east of Canada,

28:04

Jim, Newfoundland,

28:07

where ATVs, there's two

28:09

at every household just about. So

28:13

he shows up and he's sitting

28:15

on one of the brand new ATVs and he starts

28:17

it up as if he's going to go for a ride. And

28:20

I said, Nate, hang on, buddy. Where are you

28:22

going? He says, oh, I'm just going to see how

28:25

fast she goes, buddy. I said, well, you

28:27

got to put a helmet on. He says, I've

28:29

been riding ATVs my whole life. Never

28:31

put a helmet on yet. I said, well,

28:34

today's your lucky day because

28:36

nobody's riding without a helmet. So

28:39

he begrudgingly slaps

28:41

a helmet on, goes to leave

28:44

and I stop him. Nate, you got to

28:46

do it up. He says, I don't know how. I

28:48

said, no problem. I'll do it for you. He's

28:50

never worn a helmet before. Wow. That's

28:53

not all that uncommon for people who ride ATVs

28:56

like in a utility type fashion. You know,

28:58

like around their yard, around their farm or whatever. Quite

29:01

often no one wears a helmet. Exactly.

29:03

If you see an ATV on a hunting

29:06

or a gold mining show, there's

29:08

not a helmet in sight, is there? Oh,

29:10

about yeah. But anyway,

29:13

thank goodness I forced him

29:15

to put one on and do it up because

29:18

this location, the

29:20

resort is so fancy. It

29:23

has a paved airstrip

29:27

on the part of the property. So

29:30

Buddy goes down the airstrip

29:33

wide open and

29:35

I know the property. He's never seen

29:37

it before. At the end

29:39

of the pavement is a drop off

29:42

and a sand trap in case

29:44

a landing plane goes a little

29:46

too far.

29:47

Or

29:48

it could be an ATV trap.

29:52

So we see the ATV

29:54

going end over end

29:57

in the air because

29:59

he left. it way too late, wide

30:01

open to put the brakes on. So

30:04

we see his body w-ing

30:07

through the air, the ATV,

30:09

end

30:10

over end.

30:12

And another guy and I raced down

30:14

there on ATVs. He's got

30:17

two broken wrists, 911

30:19

for an ambulance.

30:21

Now I'm down one staff member. The

30:25

other two guys were much more sensible,

30:27

but they'd never taught. They

30:29

were just working for the manufacturer

30:32

and thought that would be fun. So

30:34

we went over some basics and then the

30:37

buses start arriving. So

30:39

we get people dressed and we took them out,

30:43

50 of them at a time. I'm

30:45

leading, there's a middle

30:47

person working for me and

30:49

a sweep rider to kind of keep

30:51

an eye on. Cause the manufacturers,

30:54

this is a holiday for them. The dealers.

30:57

The dealers, yes, it's not

30:59

their ATV. So they probably

31:02

will drive them kind of

31:04

with a rental car philosophy.

31:07

Let's see what this baby will do. So

31:11

we have to kind of corral them

31:14

as diplomatically as we can. Cause

31:16

these are sellable units. We can't

31:19

smash them up. Well, despite

31:22

the guy from Newfoundland, that

31:24

was written off by the way. So

31:28

we do three or four bus loads. And

31:31

then we had radios, intercoms

31:34

in our helmets. I hear the crazy

31:36

new fee screaming at me over the radio.

31:40

It turns out he's all hyped

31:42

up on Demerol. He's

31:44

got two casts from his elbow

31:47

to his fingertips and

31:49

he's back from the hospital. So

31:52

they put this

31:54

guy Nate in the equipment tent,

31:57

passing out helmets. And I'm thinking

31:59

my.

31:59

Well, there's a great promotion

32:02

to how safe our operation is.

32:05

We got a stoned guy in two

32:08

casts passing out the

32:10

safety gear. I'm telling everybody

32:12

they really work. Hey, you're going to have fun. They

32:15

really go. So

32:17

at mid tour with

32:20

Group C,

32:22

Nate gets on the radio and he's screaming

32:24

at me. Clayton, he still

32:26

doesn't know my name. Clayton, you got

32:28

to get back here. Mr. and

32:31

I'll pretend his name was Akimi.

32:34

Mr. Akimi himself wants

32:37

to test ride

32:38

this new fancy ATV.

32:41

OK, so who is Mr. Akimi?

32:43

He's like a VP of

32:45

this manufacturer in the

32:48

world. He's never been to Canada

32:50

before, but he's flown

32:52

in specifically for the

32:54

dealer meeting. From Japan? Yes,

32:57

very high up individual in

33:00

that company. Like there's only

33:02

two above them. So what is the feeling

33:05

there with this guy arriving? Is it

33:07

in everyone? Well, I think

33:09

kind of that due diligence thing I

33:11

mentioned, Jim, the executives

33:13

from Canada said, you know what?

33:15

If he wants to ride it, we want the

33:17

chief instructor guy teaching them. Right.

33:20

So

33:21

they're screaming at me to race back

33:24

because the limo is going to arrive any

33:26

minute.

33:27

So I called up the staff

33:30

member that was in the middle to pass everybody

33:32

and take over the lead.

33:34

And I can ride an ATV pretty fast.

33:37

I stood up and booked it back

33:39

to the area where we start.

33:42

But it took me a couple of minutes. So about every 30

33:45

seconds, guess who's screaming

33:47

at me? I said, hurry up, hurry up. The limo's here.

33:50

I'm not going to kill myself. So

33:53

I get back there. I ride over

33:55

the hill. And the scene

33:57

was a big limo.

33:59

of people in suits

34:02

and I leap off the ATV and

34:04

I get at the end of the line because they

34:06

said get down there. They have to introduce

34:09

you to Mr. Akimi. And

34:11

what's your feeling as you're walking up? Do you get the

34:13

feeling that like that this is being really

34:15

treated like he's you know royalty?

34:18

Absolutely. It was a receiving line

34:21

just like you've seen on TV with

34:23

Queen Elizabeth. So

34:25

I'm at the end and I'm in full gear

34:28

and I'm all muddy but I'm looking

34:30

down the line they had a handler

34:33

I don't know where he

34:35

was from but he was introducing the

34:38

people in suits to the

34:40

vice president and I noticed

34:43

yeah I noticed every time

34:45

he was introduced he would

34:47

bow very deeply and

34:50

say oh very good to meet you and

34:52

then shake their hand and I

34:54

thought it was a little weird because I

34:56

saw the movie there was a television

34:59

series Shogun way

35:01

back I don't know 30 years ago when

35:04

the Emperor comes out all

35:06

the subjects get down on their

35:09

knees and they're not even

35:11

reciprocating the bow and I thought that

35:13

was very odd so when

35:15

it got to me they said

35:17

Akimi-san this is Clinton

35:20

he is our chief instructor

35:23

he's going to show you the new

35:25

ATV so

35:27

he said oh very glad to meet you

35:29

and deep bow well I

35:32

thought it would be appropriate to

35:34

bow as well did

35:36

I mention I still have my helmet on Jim

35:39

yes there there was a little timing

35:42

issue I

35:43

had a helmet with

35:45

a peak and I clocked him right

35:47

above the eyes with the peak of

35:49

my helmet so you bowed at

35:51

the same time as he bowed thinking

35:54

you're doing this nice thing and you crack him

35:56

in the head knock him on

35:58

the ground Oh man. He

36:01

was a diminutive person, not very

36:03

tall, maybe 5'5",

36:05

and knock him on the ground. Well,

36:08

the general sales manager of

36:10

Canada, who we've since

36:13

become friends, a guy named Don,

36:15

he dove down to help lift

36:18

Mr. Akimi just as I did. Well,

36:21

I hit Don in the ear.

36:24

I had bonked two people. So...

36:27

What's everybody else doing around here? Oh my

36:30

God. The look on their faces. Well, the crazy

36:32

noofy screaming into the radio,

36:34

Clinton's killed Akimi, we're all going to get

36:37

fired. It was mayhem.

36:39

And Mr. Akimi jumped up

36:42

very sprightly and

36:44

said, no problem, no problem.

36:46

And people are trying to brush off. He had

36:48

a gorgeous suit on, trying to

36:50

brush off his pants. And I'm

36:52

absolutely mortified. What

36:55

did you say?

36:57

Oh, I apologized

36:59

many times. Oh, no problem. No problem. Where

37:02

is ATV? I said, well,

37:04

sir, look at how muddy I am. It's

37:07

really wet out on the trail.

37:09

Can I give you my spare

37:12

riding gear? So I gave

37:14

him some, my motocross gear,

37:17

but I'm not 5'5". So

37:20

when he came out of the tent, it was

37:22

a little odd looking because the pants

37:24

went up to his armpits almost, but

37:27

he was ready to go. So we showed

37:29

him the basics in this kind

37:31

of staging area, you know, over the

37:34

telephone poles, and he could ride

37:36

really well. I'm sure it wasn't

37:38

his first time. We went

37:40

out, everything stopped. There was no

37:43

dealers riding.

37:44

We went out for about 15 minutes

37:47

on a short trail ride and

37:49

came back. And we parked,

37:51

he took his gear off and

37:53

came and shook my hand. And I said again,

37:56

Mr. Akimi, I am so

37:58

sorry. He said.

38:00

No problem, you have no problem with

38:02

me. And then he turned

38:04

to walk away and he turned back. And

38:07

I'll never forget it. My son still mocked

38:09

me about this. But in an incredibly

38:12

deep voice, he said, Clinton's

38:14

on, you're a very good rider. And

38:17

that's how it was left. And

38:21

so you've cracked him in the head. You took him

38:23

for a ride. By the sounds of it, it sounds like

38:25

you won him over again. Did you feel like

38:27

it was done at that point?

38:28

Well, I thought I'd salvaged it,

38:31

despite the fact that he still had a red

38:33

line just to puff his eyes when

38:35

he left.

38:38

But

38:39

I didn't realize till a few years

38:41

later, you know what? I've

38:43

never had a call fix that incident

38:46

from that manufacturer. And

38:49

it actually took 16

38:52

years before that company called

38:54

me again to help them at a dealer.

38:56

It was more of a media day

39:01

to test ride a new model they'd

39:03

brought out. 16 years? 16 years.

39:09

Because they called you regularly up until this point. You

39:11

were regularly on their schedule up

39:13

until that point. Yeah, every couple of years. Absolutely.

39:16

It's unmistakable. You

39:18

cracked the guy in the head. Yeah,

39:21

I shot myself in the foot, that one. And

39:24

it was hilarious. I'd go to a motorcycle

39:26

show or a national motocross

39:28

track because we would go to do training for

39:31

kids at the motocross nationals

39:34

across Canada. And

39:36

they wouldn't remember my name, but they

39:38

would just scream out, Hey,

39:41

you're the guy that knocked Akimi

39:43

over years later.

39:46

So I guess as long as they remember

39:48

who you are.

39:49

Yeah, I mean, you remember for something, right? Yeah.

39:53

Well, dare I ask this obviously stupid question, but

39:56

what did you learn from that? And did you change

39:58

anything?

39:59

I did learn and I looked up and researched

40:03

etiquette when meeting

40:05

different nationalities. I think that's

40:07

very important if you're in business. If

40:10

you're making a deal with a Japanese

40:12

executive, you do not

40:14

bow when you meet them. I

40:17

also learned if they

40:19

proffer their business card,

40:22

you don't grab it and stick it in your

40:24

shirt pocket. I did that once.

40:28

You take it with reverence and put it

40:30

on the desk in front of you and

40:32

then you offer them your card. So

40:35

there's some real etiquette that I was

40:37

ignorant of that I

40:39

now know. So now if you

40:41

go to something like this and you're meeting someone

40:44

like that and you don't understand the etiquette,

40:46

you're gonna look it up.

40:47

Yeah, absolutely, for different nationalities.

40:50

I think different nationalities have

40:53

a different space.

40:56

Like if I met you or Elizabeth,

40:59

I might even give you a hug. So good to see

41:01

you guys, something like that. And

41:03

a lot of people don't like hugs. I'm

41:06

kind of a huggy guy. So

41:09

I've had to learn

41:11

and curb my enthusiasm sometimes. So

41:14

are you just more conscious in general? Though

41:16

how you approach it? Definitely more cautious.

41:20

So what happened is they had to wait long enough for everyone

41:23

to either retire or die that was involved. I

41:25

think that was it. They're all gone.

41:27

The people that remember that are

41:29

all gone. 16 years is a long

41:31

time to suffer for a mistake.

41:33

Yes, I just realized

41:35

we just recounted it. I may not

41:38

get any more work or

41:40

people meeting me will be very wary.

41:56

Mm.

42:06

That was Clinton

42:08

Smout from Smart Adventures in Ontario, Canada.

42:11

His website is smartadventures.ca

42:14

and of course, as I said, if you're a regular listener to the

42:16

show, you'll recognize him from our Rider

42:18

Skills program. Now we're going to stop for just

42:20

a few minutes while I tell you about something, but

42:22

after that we have another story about the

42:24

dangers of blindly trusting someone

42:27

you met while traveling on the road. Or

42:29

perhaps it's about being able to blindly

42:32

trust someone that you met while traveling.

42:34

You be the judge. Stay

42:36

with us.

42:56

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why you didn't try it sooner. That's how

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43:48

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43:50

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43:52

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43:54

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43:57

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43:59

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44:01

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44:07

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44:09

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44:11

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46:00

about something that happened while on a

46:02

motorcycle travel adventure. And although

46:04

the participants are very much involved and

46:06

connected to motorcycling, this story

46:08

seems to have happened because of

46:11

the motorcycle itself. This is

46:13

Spencer and Kathy Conway. So

46:17

Spencer, you have Kathy with you to tell

46:19

this story. Hello, Kathy. Hi,

46:21

Jim.

46:22

Okay, so just jumping here as

46:25

needed with the story, when does this

46:27

take place and what are we talking about? Well,

46:30

we were in Peru in a place called Caya

46:32

Marco, which is quite elevated.

46:35

There's just loads and loads of mountains

46:37

surrounding you. And we went to a

46:39

very nice place to stay for the evening

46:41

and motor camp that's run by a friend of

46:43

ours called David Groves.

46:45

There

46:47

was a man staying there and

46:49

running the place. His name was Franco,

46:52

very good looking, very charming young

46:54

man, which Spencer calls a gigolo. But

46:57

he was also actually the Peruvian

47:00

cycling champ and a very, very good

47:02

mechanic. Well, his wife

47:04

had opened up a Chinese restaurant in

47:06

Caya Marco. And we were invited

47:09

to go out there for the opening. And he insisted

47:11

that he would drive us to this place.

47:14

And as we were

47:17

reversing out of the driveway, he

47:20

went off a cliff. He

47:22

just kept going. And

47:25

we were so hang on, you guys are

47:27

on a motorcycle adventure clearly. But you've

47:29

met up with this person, you befriended them. They're

47:31

going to take you out for dinner. So you pile into their

47:33

vehicle, which I'm assuming this is

47:36

a mountainous area. Very yes. And Caya

47:38

Marco. What are the roads like

47:40

there? Like in the immediate? Oh, they

47:42

are extremely steep. Very

47:45

many, many, many curves, sharp curves,

47:48

very, very long drops. It's

47:51

just one of those places you

47:53

literally hanging onto the side of mountains

47:56

going around there. And are the houses

47:58

those those hang off the mountains? style houses?

48:00

Yes, exactly, yes. So

48:03

the driveway we were going down was so

48:05

incredibly steep and I don't

48:07

know if his brakes just didn't work or whatever

48:09

but he just cut straight across the road

48:11

and took us off the side of the mountains. So

48:15

when do you know when he's backing up that

48:17

it's going wrong? When he didn't slow

48:20

down at the bottom. And

48:23

do you say anything? What goes through your

48:26

mind and what do you say and do? It was

48:28

just complete shock and then also

48:31

sort of laughter at the

48:33

ridiculous situation. We

48:35

just couldn't believe he did that. He was so

48:38

calm about the whole thing and

48:40

his daughter was sitting next to him. She was

48:42

about 15 years old and

48:44

she was on her mobile phone with her friends.

48:46

She didn't even blink an eyelid. She

48:49

just stayed in the car. So where

48:51

did the car stop? So you're going down

48:53

and you go off the edge of the cliff. What happened? How far

48:55

down? Well, we went a few

48:57

meters down the cliff but we hit a rock

49:00

so we were balancing like a seesaw

49:02

on this rock

49:03

that was in the center

49:05

of the car underneath. Like a movie? Yeah.

49:08

Like a movie. It's precariously

49:10

perch. And Spencer

49:12

and I was stuck at the back as one of those vans

49:14

and we couldn't get the door open and

49:17

Franco just jumped out the car and you

49:19

know started looking at the thing and pushing

49:22

the car while it was rocking and we were just stuck

49:24

in the back of this. And

49:26

you're not gonna say like I mean you're off the side of this mountain

49:29

and he's pushing the vehicle you're

49:31

stuck inside. Are you not gonna say anything like hey

49:33

let us out of here? Well yes

49:35

of course. Franco can you let us

49:38

out please? We

49:40

had to jump out the car. There was a little way

49:43

down from the thing and we had to hold

49:45

the back of the car up and

49:48

Franco went and grabbed some neighbors

49:50

who came around and they started

49:52

building a road underneath.

49:56

Underneath the car.

49:59

So they're feeling it. up underneath the wheels to

50:01

try and build a road to drive this thing out.

50:04

And does anyone express

50:06

how precarious the situation is or

50:08

how dangerous it was or oh you're lucky?

50:10

No it was completely normal to this.

50:14

But he did afterwards say to us you know I'm

50:16

not really used to driving a car I

50:19

only drive a rider motorbike.

50:22

Let me interject he actually he

50:25

actually said I said what

50:27

are you doing Franco? Why did you just reverse

50:29

go across the main road and go off

50:32

a cliff?

50:32

And he went I don't know how to drive a car.

50:35

He's a top motorcyclist,

50:38

he's a top

50:40

mechanic, he's a cycling champion but

50:43

he failed to tell us that he was going

50:45

to take us out for dinner but he didn't know

50:47

how to drive and it was one of those VW combis.

50:50

Did that anger you? Did you get upset

50:52

with that? Or

50:53

to be honest once over the initial

50:56

shot because I mean this thing it is like you exactly

50:58

said Jim it's a film it's like seesawing

51:01

back and forth and if it had gone off

51:03

that would have been it would have all been dead. But

51:05

Franco's sitting in the front all good-looking

51:08

and laughing and his daughter's

51:10

sitting next to him on a mobile phone saying

51:12

I don't think I'm gonna make it to the restaurant we're gonna

51:14

die with that. So

51:17

there's something about the way they

51:20

handled the situation that seemed

51:22

to make it less dangerous.

51:24

Oh absolutely they were so

51:27

calm and and it was just you know

51:29

the most normal thing I think you know after the

51:31

initial shock like Spencer said we were

51:33

just laughing you know you can't help it wow

51:36

is that a thing I mean like think about

51:38

it if the way you respond

51:40

to something affects the level of

51:42

danger I mean that that's our opens up

51:45

a whole new world.

51:46

That is such a good comment Jim and it was

51:48

something that I was going to bring up at some point

51:50

the way that you approach a difficult

51:52

situation totally affects

51:54

the outcome and it also affects your

51:57

memory of it.

51:58

If you stay positive and you know

52:00

you think of the best way to get

52:02

out of it and you solve the situation. You

52:05

actually feel wonderful afterwards. I mean literally

52:07

what Kathy said is true. We built and she's

52:10

putting herself down because she also helped.

52:12

We rebuilt that road. We got

52:14

logs, we got trees, we

52:17

got mud, we had four spades, we had rocks.

52:21

And we rebuilt the back of that road

52:24

really until we could get the wheels back on

52:26

there. But the thing is they were

52:28

right behind it. I mean right behind

52:31

it these guys working away and I kept saying

52:33

if it goes you're gone too. But they were

52:35

just laughing and smiling. But the ridiculous

52:38

thing is Jim when we finally got it off,

52:40

got the truck back on

52:43

onto the main road. Franco said

52:45

right well let's get to the Chinese restaurant.

52:48

And then we had to put up with them

52:50

driving onto pavements nearly into

52:53

the side of buildings nearly running over

52:55

the multitude of women that he probably slept

52:58

with. Hang

53:00

on Spencer and Kathy. I

53:02

have to say that you just sat in the car

53:04

with a guy who went off a cliff backwards tells you

53:07

he can't drive the vehicle. And what do you do

53:09

after you get rescued and everything turns out fine?

53:11

You climb back in the car with him.

53:14

Well to be quite honest

53:16

you know the way we think of things it's

53:18

not what could have happened because that's

53:21

not really relevant to the story. It's

53:23

what did happen and nothing actually

53:25

happened to us so we were fine. It

53:28

was just so

53:32

surreal the whole situation that you

53:34

can't help but laugh

53:36

at

53:38

the ridiculousness of the whole

53:40

thing. But you can drive a car Kathy correct?

53:43

Yes I can. Why didn't you just

53:45

say I'll drive?

53:47

Well

53:49

we were okay then we were on the road.

53:51

Right there were no mountains to go

53:53

down. Kathy

53:55

that's a treat for you. Back to

53:58

what we were saying there about how you handle it. Like

54:00

you told the story about being attacked in Kenya,

54:03

Spencer, and being shot at. Obviously

54:06

you can't take a humor

54:08

side to that. That's a different situation.

54:11

But I was going to say the other thing that might happen with that

54:13

as well is by changing the

54:15

way you respond to something like

54:17

that. So you respond in a more lighthearted

54:19

fashion. It probably gives

54:21

you much more latitude in your thinking

54:24

to be able to solve the problem as well.

54:26

You've just said what Kathy's

54:28

actually taught me, Jim. She's

54:31

incredible in very, very difficult

54:33

situations. And she does see the

54:35

funny side of it. For example, when

54:39

Franco jumped back in and said, let's go, I was

54:41

like, oh, I don't know about this. And

54:43

Kathy was like, hey, we've got a Chinese restaurant

54:45

to go to. So, I mean,

54:48

yeah, it's your attitude. Some

54:50

people might just absolutely freak out

54:52

and go, oh, no, that was close to death experience.

54:55

I'm going home. I'm going to

54:56

go with this.

54:57

I'm out. So I think that's the difference between

54:59

people who rationalize things and

55:03

people who panic. So it

55:05

is. It's a frame of mind. And

55:08

really, hats off to Kathy. I mean,

55:10

in all the difficult situations we've been

55:12

in, Kathy was a stalwart.

55:14

I mean, the last thing you want is people jumping

55:17

around screaming, going, this is the end of it. This

55:19

is the end of it. Like I do. So

55:22

I'm screaming later. Sorry. After

55:26

this, is there anything that you would

55:28

peg to learning from

55:30

that situation in particular?

55:32

Yeah, don't go in a combi with a gigolo.

55:36

I mean, I mean, this situation is so much

55:39

the opposite of the situations

55:41

you're normally in. This is just a one off.

55:43

I mean, he was being wonderful. I mean,

55:45

actually, his him and his wife

55:47

were the first people to serve up guinea

55:50

pig for Kathy and I. It's very

55:52

interesting looking. It's just a whole guinea pig

55:54

with his legs and teeth and everything stuffed

55:56

on a plate and handed to you. Yeah,

55:59

it looks like it's.

55:59

been run over by a car and put on a plate.

56:02

Right. What's it taste like? Not

56:06

like chicken because that's what

56:08

everyone says about every exotic

56:11

meat or you know, they always taste like

56:13

chicken. It's not true. Crocodile

56:15

doesn't taste like chicken. Guinea pig doesn't

56:17

taste like chicken. Impala doesn't taste

56:19

like chicken. They've all got their own taste. Well,

56:22

that's good to know. But the point is that

56:24

this, I mean, this guy Franco, we were

56:26

staying at David Grove's and Franco's house.

56:29

They were so wonderful to us. They helped

56:31

us with the bike and, you know, um,

56:34

going off the cliff. Yes, we could have got angry.

56:36

We could have fallen out with him when he said,

56:38

Oh no, I don't know how to drive a car, but

56:41

I mean, why, what is the point? Uh,

56:43

they were very nice people. He made a silly mistake.

56:46

He was excited about taking us to his wife's

56:48

new restaurant. And, uh, we're

56:50

friends to this very day. And in fact, uh,

56:53

in my book, I've got these stories and obviously

56:55

I cleared it with Franco and he was like, of course

56:58

you can write about that.

56:59

Um, I mean, he's a very traditional chap. He's

57:01

got three wives. Um, you

57:04

know, lots of, uh, lots of children

57:06

and he doesn't walk past a single woman

57:08

in the street without chatting them up. He's

57:10

hilarious. He's a wonderful character. And

57:13

instead of falling out, Kathy and I have got a

57:15

friend for life, if you know what I mean, because

57:17

of the way we approach the situation. And

57:19

I'm so glad you said that about, about mentality

57:22

and attitude. Cause Kathy's taught me a

57:24

lot and how to stay calm

57:26

and not freak out about things.

57:29

Kathy, can I just ask you one last question about

57:31

this? Yeah. After this happens, what

57:33

was the food like at the restaurant?

57:35

Absolutely wonderful. Which

57:39

is a strange thing. Yeah. I didn't

57:41

have an appetite.

57:42

You didn't. I can't

57:45

understand why. No, it was a great

57:47

restaurant. Actually the food

57:49

was great and we didn't tell his wife that

57:51

he went off the cliff. So he was

57:54

happy and she was happy. That was nearly the

57:56

last supper. Yeah. Right. Just

57:58

before I finish him.

57:59

What's the name of the book that you have this story in Spencer?

58:03

It's called the Zimbabwean Psychiatrist's

58:05

Hat. Very good.

58:08

Kathy Spencer, thank you so

58:10

much. Thank you too. Thanks, Jim. No,

58:13

thanks, Jim.

58:44

That was Spencer and Kathy Conway,

58:47

both on the road, as they virtually always are filming

58:49

and exploring by motorcycle. A quick

58:51

word and then we're going to be back with our last story

58:54

for today, which is about how enthusiasm

58:57

can get you in trouble. And in this case, almost

58:59

cost him his life. Stay with us.

59:15

Standing on your foot pegs gives you much

59:17

more control over your motorcycle. I'm

59:19

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59:22

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59:23

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59:25

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59:31

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59:35

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59:42

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59:45

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59:48

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59:50

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it. The change was incredible.

59:55

I mean, seriously, ride changing. So

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IMSproducts.com.

1:00:44

And now for our last story on this

1:00:46

premiere episode of Deep Trouble. This

1:00:48

one involves a serious incident that could very

1:00:51

well have cost a young Clinton Smout his

1:00:53

life. And despite the seriousness

1:00:56

or the consequences that could have been in this

1:00:58

story, Clinton has a way of telling it that is entertaining

1:01:02

yet still informative. I guess

1:01:04

it's the teacher in him coming out once again

1:01:06

for us. I wonder, does it ever go away?

1:01:08

This is when Clinton

1:01:10

Smout first discovers that you

1:01:13

go where you look.

1:01:16

So you had another one. I know you've

1:01:18

had many, Clinton, but another one that we

1:01:21

wanted to talk about here, which was scary

1:01:23

and it was a long time ago. Can you set this up? Where

1:01:25

was this and what were you doing? Yeah, my

1:01:27

very first motorcycle, I

1:01:30

think I've related to you, I sold salamanders

1:01:33

to kids at school in grade two and

1:01:35

three until I got shut down. I

1:01:38

don't think I heard this before. You sold salamanders

1:01:41

to raise money for your bike?

1:01:43

The Honda 50 that came out

1:01:46

in the late 60s, I

1:01:48

had a neighbor that got

1:01:50

one and he wouldn't let me drive

1:01:52

it, but he took me for a ride and I

1:01:55

was hooked. That's what I

1:01:57

wanted to do. It was my entire focus.

1:02:00

you know next to eating I had

1:02:02

to make money to get my own motorcycle. So

1:02:05

my father encouraged it he said yeah

1:02:07

buy two or three but you know get a job. And

1:02:10

we lived in a very rural farm

1:02:13

type area although we didn't have a farm

1:02:16

so there wasn't enough people for a paper

1:02:18

route. So that was

1:02:20

always in the back of my mind how do I make some

1:02:22

money? So at show

1:02:24

and tell in grade

1:02:27

two I took in two

1:02:29

salamanders. And

1:02:31

as an aside I should relate to you Jim

1:02:34

my mom saved all my report

1:02:36

cards for my siblings and myself. My

1:02:39

grade two teacher said Clinton

1:02:41

sometimes has to be reminded

1:02:44

that other children would like to tell

1:02:46

stories. But

1:02:50

at show and tell I took

1:02:52

in two salamanders that I'd caught

1:02:54

underneath a rotten log out in the bush

1:02:57

and I had them as little pets. And the kids

1:02:59

went nuts I'll give you 50 cents

1:03:02

for that. That was a lot of money in grade

1:03:04

two so I had the

1:03:06

light bulb idea. I'll

1:03:09

catch lots more of these salamanders

1:03:11

and sell them. So I had a bucket

1:03:14

with holes in it on the top and

1:03:17

I would take you know dozens of them on

1:03:20

the school bus and I'd sell them before

1:03:23

school and at recess. And

1:03:26

it worked great for two seasons

1:03:28

but kind of the end of grade three the

1:03:30

principal we only had four

1:03:33

rooms in our school. So

1:03:35

he was one of the teachers but grade eight he

1:03:37

called me into his office. Are you

1:03:39

the dumb kid selling those little lizards?

1:03:42

And I said no they're salamanders and

1:03:45

you can imagine he didn't take that calmly.

1:03:48

He kind of erupted. I don't care what they're called

1:03:51

stop selling them because mothers

1:03:53

were phoning the school complaining because

1:03:56

they're finding them you know under kids pillows

1:03:59

in the pocket.

1:03:59

So I got shut

1:04:02

down. I had no idea your first business

1:04:04

was Salamander Salesman. It was.

1:04:07

That's going to stick with me from now on. I was eight.

1:04:09

So I made $65. Two

1:04:14

years of that was birthday money from

1:04:16

my grandmother, $5. But

1:04:19

I made a lot of money selling exotic

1:04:22

pets.

1:04:25

And I found a bike at a snowmobile

1:04:27

manufacturing plant in my little

1:04:29

hometown called Northway.

1:04:33

And long gone now. But I used

1:04:35

to get off the bus at 3.30. And

1:04:38

I would sweep the floors. And

1:04:40

I was the go to guy. They'd tell Clinton,

1:04:43

I need a couple of these parts. And I'd run

1:04:45

to the store room and bring

1:04:47

it to the guys on the assembly line. So

1:04:50

the owner of this business liked me.

1:04:53

And when some guy brought his kids bike

1:04:55

in to have a flat tire fixed,

1:04:59

they never picked it up.

1:05:02

It sat there for over a year. And I would

1:05:04

dust it and sit on it. I

1:05:06

couldn't touch the ground. So

1:05:09

the owner of the shop, his name was

1:05:11

Lou, he phoned this

1:05:14

pretty rich fella and said, you know, what

1:05:16

are you doing with this bike? Do you want to sell it? And

1:05:18

he goes, yeah, I'll take $150. So

1:05:22

Lou said, well, you own

1:05:25

me for fixing it and storage.

1:05:28

So I'm giving you $75. So

1:05:31

my dad lent me $10. And

1:05:36

I cashed in my piggy bank of $65. And

1:05:39

that was my first bike.

1:05:41

Salamander powered.

1:05:42

Yeah. So I couldn't

1:05:44

touch the ground, nowhere near

1:05:47

it. But my dad showed me, you know, he

1:05:49

wrote in England, post war. So

1:05:52

he showed me the clutch, the gears, blah,

1:05:54

blah, blah. And he had railway

1:05:57

ties lining the

1:05:59

sides of our lawn. long gravel driveway.

1:06:02

So if I could bring it to a stop

1:06:04

and get my foot down on a railway tie,

1:06:07

I didn't crash. Otherwise I crashed

1:06:09

a lot. So what

1:06:11

size bike is this? It was a Kawasaki 85, 1969.

1:06:15

And

1:06:18

so that was my first bike, kickstart

1:06:20

only of course. But

1:06:23

I rode it winter and summer

1:06:26

for probably four or five years until

1:06:28

I could afford the next size

1:06:31

bike. But I

1:06:33

got pretty good at riding because

1:06:35

of no traction in the summer. And

1:06:38

I rode it, as long as I had gasoline,

1:06:41

I rode it in the summer.

1:06:43

Sorry, in the winter because of the

1:06:45

snow, I rode it around our

1:06:47

neighborhood

1:06:49

in like snow covered roads,

1:06:52

gravel roads. So it was so much

1:06:54

fun. But we had

1:06:56

one trail where you had to cross

1:06:59

a creek to get to

1:07:01

this trail. And a big

1:07:04

tree had fallen down and rotted

1:07:06

over the years. So it was kind of like a hollow

1:07:08

log that I

1:07:11

crossed dozens and dozens of times.

1:07:15

And then it rained really

1:07:17

heavily for about three days. And

1:07:20

I couldn't ride my bike, it was torrential

1:07:22

rain. So when the sun came

1:07:25

out, I came out and

1:07:28

I was ripping around on this bike, so

1:07:30

happy to be riding again.

1:07:32

I thought, oh, I'm gonna go back on that trail

1:07:35

that leads to the forest. But

1:07:37

as I went to cross the log, that I'd

1:07:39

been across many, many times,

1:07:43

I looked down amazed at

1:07:45

how high the creek water

1:07:47

was. It's probably about eight feet

1:07:50

across. No, it

1:07:52

would be more dramatic

1:07:53

if I called

1:07:55

it a raging river, Jim. It was really a creek.

1:07:59

It may have been.

1:07:59

I don't know, a couple feet deep normally,

1:08:03

but now with a swell

1:08:06

of the rainwater, it was way

1:08:08

deeper. So I stupidly

1:08:11

looked down as I went

1:08:13

across the log and

1:08:15

I went off the side, the front wheel dropped

1:08:18

off. I went over first

1:08:21

and then my bike came

1:08:23

after me and landed on

1:08:25

me. So the water was deep

1:08:27

enough that when I was, you know, trapped

1:08:30

under the bike, I barely

1:08:32

had my helmet out of the

1:08:34

water.

1:08:35

Oh, wow, so you're laying

1:08:38

face up in the creek, the bike is

1:08:40

on top of you.

1:08:41

Yeah, and it was pretty

1:08:43

tense because it was freezing cold

1:08:46

water and it was,

1:08:48

the current was strong enough that it was kind of lapping

1:08:51

over the chin of my helmet. I didn't

1:08:54

have a visor on this old full face

1:08:56

helmet I had. And I was getting

1:08:58

water up my nose and in my mouth. So

1:09:00

it was really scary, but

1:09:03

I didn't have enough strength to throw

1:09:06

the bike up off of me. It had me

1:09:08

trapped plus the current

1:09:10

holding it. So I just kind of dragged

1:09:13

my, the pipe

1:09:15

was also burning my leg, but the

1:09:17

cold water really helped. I

1:09:20

did have a big welt on my leg when I

1:09:22

did get out, but the only way

1:09:24

I could get out was to push up with

1:09:26

my arms and try to drag

1:09:29

my leg one at a time out

1:09:31

from under the foot pegs and the pipe.

1:09:35

And it must've, I don't know how long it took me, maybe 10

1:09:37

minutes, but that was a long 10

1:09:40

minutes, wondering,

1:09:43

is this how I'm gonna die? They're

1:09:46

gonna find me and my mom's gonna say,

1:09:48

I told you, you shouldn't be

1:09:51

riding alone. But

1:09:53

I got out, but I couldn't lift the bike

1:09:56

out. I just kind of stood it up against

1:09:58

the bank. And my buddy

1:10:00

and I dragged it up the

1:10:03

hill after I got changed and warmed

1:10:05

up.

1:10:06

Wow. Now I want to ask

1:10:08

you what you learned from that. And I know

1:10:11

you've got all these years of experience and I know you know exactly

1:10:13

what you should be doing now,

1:10:16

but back then, did that change?

1:10:18

Do you remember? Did that change the way you rode

1:10:21

after that? Did you change anything?

1:10:23

I still went across that log for

1:10:26

years until it finally broke.

1:10:28

And a bunch of us got some scrap wood

1:10:30

from our dads and we built a

1:10:33

wider two by four kind

1:10:35

of plank bridge.

1:10:36

And I knew

1:10:39

right away that if I hadn't looked

1:10:41

down to see, you know, I marveled

1:10:43

at how high the water was. I

1:10:46

went where I looked and

1:10:48

that's coaching tip that we tell

1:10:50

people when we're training for ruts

1:10:53

or anything on two wheels, really,

1:10:55

you got to keep your eyes up. Look

1:10:58

at your destination, not where

1:11:01

you don't want to go. Yeah.

1:11:02

And that popped into my mind as soon as you said, I was like,

1:11:04

cause I know you point, you've made a point to say that

1:11:06

that's what, what happened is you look down and you recognize

1:11:09

it, I guess at the time, but at the time, did

1:11:11

you recognize it? Did you come out of that and

1:11:13

say, I never should have looked down? Exactly.

1:11:15

Cause my buddy said, you know,

1:11:17

how much of an idiot are you? We

1:11:19

go across this creek every day

1:11:22

to the trail. And I said, I

1:11:24

know, I think it's cause I looked at the water. Cause

1:11:26

it was so much higher and fast current.

1:11:30

Right.

1:11:30

So you recognize that at that time and then, then

1:11:33

you thought I got a, I'm not looking down.

1:11:35

Yeah. Yeah. And so

1:11:37

looking back, what were the other things that

1:11:39

should have set off alarm bells for you?

1:11:42

Well, if you're going to ride where

1:11:44

it's a little riskier and you know

1:11:46

it, maybe it would be smarter to go

1:11:48

with a friend. Uh, cause that

1:11:51

would have, you know, the whoever would have

1:11:53

jumped off their bike. I

1:11:55

would have let them go first.

1:11:57

Cause they, they always had faster.

1:11:59

bigger bikes than me. I always had the junky

1:12:02

ones. But maybe

1:12:04

if they'd gone in, I wouldn't have. I

1:12:06

would have jumped in the water and helped them, but there

1:12:09

was nobody there to help me.

1:12:12

Right. But the thing is, you were riding a

1:12:14

spot where, I mean, because you could argue that, well,

1:12:16

I ride this all the time. But what I was thinking

1:12:18

was, what about the weather? You just said

1:12:20

you had three days of rain. Yeah. The creek is

1:12:23

swollen. Those things should

1:12:25

set off alarm bells for you. Exactly. It didn't

1:12:27

at the time. The euphoria

1:12:30

of wanting to be getting

1:12:32

rid of the withdrawal of not riding.

1:12:35

I am a motorcycle freak.

1:12:37

I have been since I was seven.

1:12:41

And so to not ride, like the winter

1:12:43

is very tough for me. I still

1:12:45

stood up bikes. We haven't in a few

1:12:47

years, but I really want to this year just

1:12:50

to get out again. Because the snowmobile,

1:12:53

it's fun, but it's not a motorcycle.

1:12:56

Right.

1:12:57

So now, after weather

1:13:00

will really change areas

1:13:03

you're riding in, especially if it isn't

1:13:06

pavement.

1:13:07

Hills will be rutted. Debris

1:13:09

will be washed into corners. There's

1:13:12

sand washed on to

1:13:14

paved corners sometimes, all by

1:13:16

heavy rain and water flow. Erosion.

1:13:20

Mm-hmm. Sticks on the road. If you're on the road,

1:13:22

gravel across the asphalt. All

1:13:24

those things. So that's something that obviously you

1:13:26

know, especially being in a structured nowadays. Yeah.

1:13:29

And it's one of those first things that happens when you come out and there's

1:13:31

been a rain, you're thinking things have changed. Yes.

1:13:34

So now, I still ride alone a lot.

1:13:37

It's not because I don't have any friends,

1:13:39

Jim. I do so. But I

1:13:42

will take the trails that

1:13:44

I'm going to use that day for adventure

1:13:47

bike school. Most

1:13:50

of them are on my way to work.

1:13:53

So if I have time in the morning, I'll

1:13:55

check those out. Make sure there's no trees

1:13:57

down. You know, how deep is the mud?

1:14:00

after that rain. So because

1:14:02

I'm riding alone, I'm

1:14:05

on a little extra high alert

1:14:08

of carefulness and

1:14:10

drop my speed down that I

1:14:13

might not ride that slow if

1:14:15

a buddy or another instructor was with

1:14:17

me. I may rip it up a little bit. So

1:14:21

those are the things that, getting

1:14:24

out of scrapes, I have

1:14:26

been lucky enough to survive them all.

1:14:29

Not always without a broken limb

1:14:31

and a hospital visit, but

1:14:33

I have learned from them. Clinton,

1:14:36

great story. Thank you very much. Our

1:14:39

pleasure. Hey, Clinton, if there's one thing I could just

1:14:41

ask of you before I let you go here, is

1:14:43

there any chance you can get me a salamander for next

1:14:45

week? Absolutely. I could

1:14:47

catch one in five minutes. I know where they are. Thank

1:14:50

you. Although I may have depleted

1:14:52

the breeding stock somewhat.

1:14:54

Oh, don't tell me you're still selling those salamanders.

1:14:57

No, no. I can catch this salamander within a hundred kilometers

1:14:59

of you. No, they've recovered.

1:15:15

That was Clinton Smout. And if you're a regular listener,

1:15:17

as I mentioned, you're going to know him from our rider

1:15:19

skills program. Clinton is the chief instructor

1:15:21

at Smart Adventures. His website is smartadventures.ca,

1:15:26

where I'm sure you're going to find none of

1:15:28

the stories that he tells us on

1:15:30

the show. Well, that concludes

1:15:33

our premier episode of Deep Trouble.

1:15:35

We really hope you enjoyed it. There's more in the works, so

1:15:38

stay tuned. Now, if you think you

1:15:40

have a deep trouble story that would fit here

1:15:42

on Adventure Rider Radio, drop by our website,

1:15:45

fill out the pitch form at adventureriderradio.com

1:15:49

forward slash submissions. You'll

1:15:51

find that link, of course, just by exploring our website or

1:15:53

a way to contact us. And we'd love to see

1:15:55

your submission and who knows, it could be your

1:15:58

story on here next. We. always

1:16:00

have links and photos of about

1:16:02

what we talked about here in the show notes all at

1:16:04

our website adventureriderradio.com

1:16:30

you

1:16:54

yeah I just want to remind you that this episode has been brought

1:16:56

to you by Green Chile Adventure Gear, GreenChileADV.com,

1:17:00

Motobreeze Chain Oiler at Motobreeze.com

1:17:04

and the best rest products at CyclePump.com

1:17:08

and we'd really appreciate it anytime you're dealing with these companies

1:17:10

anytime email or otherwise let them know you heard them

1:17:12

here on Adventure Rider Radio.

1:17:26

Well that about wraps up another episode of Adventure

1:17:28

Rider Radio and we sure hope you enjoyed listening to it

1:17:31

as much as we did making it. Special thanks

1:17:33

to our producer Elizabeth Martin and

1:17:35

you of course thank you very much for listening being part of

1:17:37

the show and as I mentioned if you think you've got a

1:17:40

story that would fit our deep trouble segments

1:17:43

send it to a pitch we'd just love to get

1:17:45

it from you and we'd love to hear what sort of misadventure

1:17:47

you've had and what you've learned from it. Well

1:17:50

now it's time to get out there and ride your bike but

1:17:52

before I send you off to ride your bike let me just

1:17:54

say that we in case you don't know we have

1:17:56

another show called Adventure Rider Radio Raw it's very

1:17:59

popular as well It comes out once a month. It

1:18:01

comes out the 21st of every month. And we just

1:18:03

released, I think it was last week, the latest

1:18:06

episode of RAW. It's a little bit different

1:18:08

than Adventure Rider Radio. Roundtable talks, we

1:18:10

talk about motorcycle travel. It is good

1:18:12

fun and there's a lot of good information because the people

1:18:14

on the panel there are very experienced

1:18:17

travelers. So you can find that anywhere you find

1:18:19

podcasts, but you can find all the stuff that we talk about

1:18:21

at our website, adventureriderradio.com.

1:18:23

Go there, you can see the people that are on RAW and

1:18:26

you can find out how to download it. And

1:18:28

you can just do it right from the website as well.

1:18:29

Anyway, get out there and ride your bike

1:18:32

if you can. My name is Jim Martin. Thank you so

1:18:34

much for listening. And I will talk to you next week.

1:18:44

Well, I'm Ted Simon and here

1:18:46

I am on Adventure Rider Radio

1:18:48

again. I'm extremely

1:18:51

happy to be here with Jim Martin.