0:03

You're listening to afro Punk Solution Sessions.

0:06

I'm your host Brigittad and

0:08

I'm your co host Eve diff Cookee. Afro

0:11

Punk is a safe place, a blank space

0:13

to freak out in, to construct a new reality,

0:16

to live our lives as we see fit while making

0:18

sense of the world around us. Here

0:20

at afro Punk, we have the conversations that matter

0:23

to us, conversations that lead

0:25

to solutions. The

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Georgia governor's race is an important one,

0:33

and Stacy Abrams is on fire. If

0:36

she wins, Abrams would go on to be the first

0:38

black female governor in America.

0:41

As of today, less than one week before

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this hotly contested election, Republican

0:45

Brian Kemp has narrowly led Abrams in most

0:48

recent polls of likely voters, but a

0:50

new survey from Opinion Savvy found

0:53

Abrams with a slight edge to

0:57

So just who is Brian Kemp Abrams

0:59

is publican opponent? Well, for one

1:02

thing, he is a troubling history of racist

1:04

antics in the state, and if he spent any

1:07

time at all watching television in Georgia, you

1:09

probably remember his ads own

1:11

guns, no one's

1:13

taken away, and don't forget this jam,

1:16

I got a big truck just

1:18

in case I made to round up criminal illegals

1:20

and take them home myself. Yeah,

1:24

I just said that. But beyond that,

1:26

As Secretary of State, Kempus

1:28

architected voting policies that keep voters,

1:31

mostly black voters, from the polls. As

1:34

Rolling Stone points out, Abrahams

1:36

is competing against a rival who was also

1:38

her referee. What does that mean. Well,

1:41

it's called exact match, and here's how it works.

1:44

According to the Associated Press, Kem's

1:46

office currently has fifty three thousand voter

1:48

registrations on hold under the

1:50

state's exact match policy, which

1:53

he himself helped push through the legislature

1:55

in Okay.

1:57

So let's say that you're in Georgia and you want to go vote.

2:00

Your voter registration has your name as Bridget

2:02

Todd rather than Bridget Marie Todd,

2:04

as it reads in the Social Security Administration

2:06

database. Now that tiny mistake

2:09

would mean that your registration will be put on hold,

2:11

and it can be something as small as a missing punctuation

2:14

mark in your name. And wild George's

2:16

population is only black.

2:18

Of the thousand voter registrations

2:21

placed on hold, seventy belonged

2:24

to black voters pretty suspect

2:26

right. Kemp was even caught on tape

2:28

complaining about Stacy Abrams is a vote or outreach

2:30

work, saying her push to get folks to the

2:32

poll quote continues to concern

2:35

us, especially if everybody exercises

2:37

their right to vote. So when Brian

2:39

Kemp says everybody, who do

2:42

you think he means? Now? Compare

2:44

his record to Abrams as

2:46

minority leader in the Georgia House of Representatives.

2:49

She's been working to protect voters and make it easier

2:51

for everybody to vote. Let's say that you're

2:53

working a tough double shift down at your job. Well,

2:56

Abrams work to offer alternative voting days

2:58

and early voting to help you get to the easier

3:01

and in She also founded

3:03

a nonpartisan nonprofit, the New

3:05

Georgia Project, which has registered over

3:07

two fifty thousand Georgians, mostly

3:10

unmarried women, young people, and people

3:12

of color. Listen, No conversation

3:15

urging us to vote is complete without also

3:17

talking about the reality of those forces that

3:19

make it difficult for us to do so, which

3:21

Abrams has been talking about her entire

3:23

career. Need to make sure

3:25

you're registered. Check out vote dot

3:28

org. That's v O T e dot

3:30

org. The Acropunk team will be joining

3:32

Abrams on the ground in Georgia and the days leading

3:34

up to the election. And full disclosure,

3:37

I'm campaigning for her myself on my own. For

3:39

more on Abrams, her plan for Georgia

3:42

and why she's in this race, here's our extended

3:44

interview with her. Let's

3:50

start with talking about how you're

3:52

up while you're upbringing. First of all, um,

3:54

how you grew up, where you grew up, and how it influenced

3:57

your role in politics. Now,

4:01

sure, I grew up in southern

4:03

Mississippi, in the city of Gulfport.

4:06

My mom was a college librarian

4:09

and my father was a shipyard worker at

4:11

Engleship Building. The

4:14

challenge in our family was even though my parents

4:16

both worked full time jobs my mother

4:19

had a master's degree in library science

4:21

from the University of Wisconsin, my

4:24

parents still struggled to make ends meet. We

4:27

we're best classified as working class

4:29

slash working poor depending on the year

4:32

and how well their paychecks did. And

4:34

so we grew up with economic challenges,

4:37

always thoughtful about

4:39

and worried about money.

4:42

But what I remember most about my childhood

4:44

is not the economic deprivation, but how

4:47

my parents reacted to it. They

4:49

had three rules for us, go to church,

4:52

go to school, and take care of each

4:54

other. Uh. They wanted us to go to

4:56

church because they wanted us to have a

4:58

moral framework for how we engaged

5:01

our community. But more than that,

5:03

they wanted us to understand that our

5:05

economic situation had

5:07

nothing to do with our spirit, with who we were

5:09

and who we could become. They

5:12

also raced us with a very inclusive

5:15

sense of our responsibility

5:17

that even though we practiced a Christian

5:20

tradition, there was no space

5:22

in our faith for discrimination

5:24

against others. Um. The

5:27

second job was go school. My parents took

5:29

education very seriously. My mom was

5:31

one of seven kids and the only one of

5:34

her siblings to finish high school,

5:36

let alone go to college and go off to graduate

5:38

school. My dad is the first man

5:41

and his family to go to college, and

5:43

for both of them, education was

5:45

the root out of the abject

5:48

poverty they grew up in, and

5:50

so they were very intentional

5:52

about all six of their children going

5:55

to college and finishing high school and going to college.

5:58

So actually all of us did. Not all of us

6:00

finished my younger brother who

6:02

ended up dropping out of college, but every

6:05

other one of us finished college, and most of

6:07

us went on to graduate work. The

6:10

third job, though, is the most important,

6:12

the one that links me to public

6:15

service, and that was my mom and dad said take

6:17

care of each other. For them,

6:19

that was more than just taking care of my

6:22

siblings. It was about how do we take

6:24

care of the world around us, which

6:26

seemed sometimes a bit strange

6:28

to us as kids who worried

6:30

about whether the lights were cut on or got

6:32

cut off, and whether there was running water

6:35

in the house. But for my parents,

6:37

they wanted us to understand that

6:39

no matter how little we had, there

6:41

was someone with less, and our job

6:43

was to serve that person. Watching

6:46

my parents not only talk about

6:48

service, but being actively

6:51

engaged in it as a child and throughout

6:54

my my growing up years,

6:57

I've developed a very deep sense of responsibility

7:00

and for me that directly

7:02

translates to politics. Um,

7:06

we have a responsibility to eradicate

7:09

poverty, to create space

7:11

for people to be successful, and

7:14

the way we do that requires

7:16

good leadership, the right

7:19

leaders who understand the intersection

7:21

of politics and policy of

7:24

the public sector at large,

7:26

but also as a nonprofit sector and the business

7:28

sector. And because of the way I

7:30

was brought up, I was raised to integrate

7:33

all of those pieces of myself, my religious

7:36

beliefs, my educational beliefs, and my

7:38

commitment to service. And in the same

7:40

way, it makes me want to do this job as

7:42

governor where I can integrate not

7:44

only my personal beliefs, but also

7:47

my skills as a nonprofit leader, as

7:49

a business leader, and as a political leader.

7:51

Yeah, and that brings me to the to the point I

7:54

know that you,

7:56

you know, are in politics, but you've had not

7:58

just like one life, but to laws, three

8:00

laws with all the things that you've done, like your entrepreneurship

8:04

um in business and politics and

8:06

the Environmental Protection Agency,

8:08

like just all these various things

8:10

from one end of the spectrum to the other.

8:13

And I guess what I'm wondering

8:15

is like how you would

8:18

what you would say to a person who thinks

8:20

that they maybe don't have the qualifications,

8:22

are don't know exactly what they're looking for when

8:24

they're looking to get into politics. Like, it

8:26

doesn't just have to be one thing. It can

8:28

be more than one thing that you have experience

8:31

in that can bring you to be sitting

8:33

at the table. Oh.

8:36

Absolutely, there is no

8:38

one pathway. In fact that I know that because I've

8:40

taken most of them. Um,

8:42

I went from you know when

8:44

college, actually had to write a paper

8:47

about what I wanted to know when I graduated

8:49

because I was so undecided about

8:52

my major. I majors in physics

8:54

and philosophy and theater I did. I

8:57

briefly forward it with chemistry and

8:59

history, and finally the deans that you've

9:01

no idea what you want to study, so just

9:04

write me a paper and tell me what you think you want to know.

9:06

And I actually ended up graduating from Spellman

9:09

College with an interdisciplinary

9:12

studies major, which basically meant they let me make it

9:14

up, and I studied political science,

9:16

economics, and sociology. The

9:19

reason I talked about that, though, is that I

9:21

became comfortable with not having

9:24

a direct path to my goals, and

9:27

that's hard to do. It's hard to know that

9:29

you don't have to know everything to be

9:32

successful, and when it comes

9:34

to running for office, when it comes to serving

9:36

your community, the most important

9:38

thing to know is what you want to

9:40

see changed and how

9:43

you want to be a part of that change. You don't have to

9:45

come with every solution, but

9:47

you have to come with the right questions, and

9:50

too often, especially communities

9:52

of color, young people women.

9:55

We hold ourselves back until we are perfect.

9:58

Problems don't wait till you're perfect. Problems

10:00

need to be solved now, And sometimes

10:02

the best solutions come from

10:04

people who aren't so grounded in

10:07

the minutia of the moment, that have the

10:09

per personal experience, but also

10:11

have the passion for wanting to see

10:14

change. And so you know, I've

10:16

had people who have complimented me on my multiple

10:19

hats and the different things I've done, and

10:21

I'm privileged and blessed to have

10:24

these various opportunities. But

10:26

I will tell anyone who's thinking about

10:28

standing for office, if you

10:31

care about your community, if

10:33

there is something that drives you, and

10:35

if you are willing to do the work, then stand

10:37

up and run because we

10:39

need you. Why does

10:42

the representation and diversity matter

10:45

and government? There are complex

10:48

challenges facing our communities. Does

10:50

that matter where you live? Even in homogeneous

10:53

spaces, there are differences

10:56

of need, and so within

10:59

the Black community, US, in the Latino community,

11:01

within the white

11:03

community. Every community

11:05

of of any kind has

11:08

complexity, but

11:11

we are a common society where

11:13

our complexities touch each other. Diversity

11:17

matters because people need to know what

11:20

those challenges are. They need to understand

11:22

at a visceral level the impact

11:25

of those issues. I spend

11:27

a lot of time talking about decriminalization

11:31

of poverty, because unless

11:33

you've been poor, you do not always

11:36

understand what it means

11:38

to have your license taken away because you

11:40

can't pay a traffic ticket, because

11:42

the minute that happens, you can't get to work anymore,

11:45

and the job you have that's barely helping you

11:47

make ends meet disappears. If

11:50

you are a person of color

11:53

who has experienced

11:55

discrimination, then you

11:57

have the ability often to see where

11:59

this from nation wise and to then

12:01

counteract it. You need diversity

12:04

because diversity provides information. It

12:07

also provides ways

12:09

to address issues, and

12:11

that diversity in and of

12:13

itself creates a richer and fuller

12:17

response. In politics,

12:19

we have seen what happens when you

12:21

have a homogeneous

12:24

set of people making decisions. Too

12:27

many people are left out of those

12:29

choices, too many people are impacted

12:32

negatively by the decisions that are made.

12:35

And it isn't until we add new voices,

12:37

add new people of color, add women,

12:39

add differences based on sexual

12:42

orientation, that we then become aware

12:44

of the impediments and the prejudices

12:46

that exist in our communities, in our in our policies,

12:49

and so I see diversity as

12:52

the only way to get too good answers,

12:54

because otherwise you're trying to solve a problem without

12:56

full information, and that's both

12:58

intellectually void,

13:01

but it also is immoral because

13:03

you're not serving everyone, and that

13:06

is the responsibility of good government.

13:09

Let's take a quick break, and

13:11

we're back constantly facing

13:14

opposition. It's like part and parcel of

13:17

everything you do from all those

13:19

different angles. And I know that

13:21

there have probably been a lot of

13:23

people saying that what you're doing is ambitious,

13:26

are doubting your viability,

13:29

Um, despite you know

13:31

everything that you've done. UM,

13:33

I'm wondering, how do

13:36

you. Um, Do you have a little voice

13:38

in your head of like self doubt or

13:41

has there ever been that before saying

13:43

something saying that this never has been done

13:45

before? Um? And if so, how

13:47

do you overcome that, um, that

13:50

feeling? If you do have that. I

13:54

actually have a book that I just finished

13:56

writing. It comes out in April from

13:59

Henry Holt. It's called Minority Leader, How

14:01

to Lead from the Outside and Create Real Change,

14:04

And the first two chapters are

14:06

Dare to Want More. It's about ambition,

14:09

And the second chapter is about fear and

14:12

otherness, And so I smile at

14:14

the question because those are the roots

14:16

for me of of how I navigate.

14:20

One is that you have to be ambitious. We

14:22

have to want more, especially

14:25

those of us who come from communities where

14:27

we are not expected to have more. That

14:30

necessity of ambition is

14:32

how we move beyond the lowered

14:35

expectations of our communities. But

14:37

it's also how we achieve

14:39

the great things that are our

14:41

society needs. But

14:44

you cannot tell someone to be ambitious, especially

14:47

someone who comes from a minority community, without

14:49

also acknowledging that there are real fears.

14:52

Their fears are failure, but

14:55

there's also fear of not not just failing,

14:57

but when we fail, we are

14:59

often seen the representations of everybody.

15:01

So it's not just Stacy didn't do something,

15:04

it's Black people didn't do something. Um.

15:06

You know, that is a

15:09

question that is always with me. How

15:12

am I not only speaking for myself but

15:15

as a representation of all of the

15:17

different communities that are contained within

15:19

who I am. But

15:21

the goal is to not let fear

15:24

hold me back. It is to let

15:26

it inform me. Because if you acknowledge

15:28

what you're afraid of. If you acknowledge the

15:31

legitimacy of those fears, then

15:33

you can parse out which ones are illegitimate, which

15:35

ones are just noise. And

15:39

when you can push aside the noise, then you can focus

15:41

on, Okay, how do I then overcome the

15:43

fear that I have in this election?

15:45

Viability is a question that is raised

15:48

because people have not seen it done before.

15:52

I then have to take

15:54

their questions and find answers.

15:56

And so I am running a campaign that looks very

15:59

different than any statewide

16:01

campaign that we can find. I am

16:04

investing heavily in field,

16:06

meaning that we are talking to voters on the

16:08

ground, and we are doing so

16:10

at a depth and at

16:12

a rate that is unprecedented

16:15

in Georgia. I'm

16:18

afraid sometimes that maybe

16:21

we're doing too much, But then my response

16:24

is why am I afraid? I'm afraid because

16:26

I haven't seen it done, and that's

16:28

never a reason not to try. And

16:31

what I want people to know about

16:33

me about my campaign, about my

16:35

ambition, is that my ambition is to

16:37

do big things. I want

16:39

to make sure that we have bold

16:41

and ambitious children who are educated.

16:44

I want to eradicate poverty.

16:46

I want to make certain that people feel

16:49

included in their communities and

16:51

that they have every right to be successful

16:54

and not just to survive. Those

16:56

are ambitious goals. My

16:59

response ability as a leader

17:02

and as a candidate, is to

17:04

let fear be a motivational tool,

17:07

not let it be something that anchors me and

17:09

drags me backwards. Yeah.

17:13

Also along that point, are

17:15

there any specific things

17:17

that you do to quell that fear,

17:20

maybe like writing a list, um

17:23

writing things down, or I don't know, saying

17:26

certain things to yourself, just something you know,

17:28

maybe to give people of actual

17:31

practice. Is there anything like that

17:33

that you have? Absolutely when

17:35

it comes to addressing fear, what I

17:37

encourage people to do is write

17:39

those fears down. What are you afraid of?

17:42

Because one of the ways fears is so insidious

17:45

is that it never takes real form. It just lurks

17:48

in the back of our minds and it's a

17:50

shadow over what we do. Confronting

17:52

fear requires that we acknowledge

17:54

what we're afraid of? Are

17:56

we afraid of winning? Are we afraid of losing?

17:59

M I have trade of how I'm perceived

18:03

right down with that fear is and then once you've written

18:05

it down, actually make yourself, think

18:07

through where the fear comes from,

18:10

what's driving it, and then what's

18:12

the consequence of this the fear is correct,

18:15

what's the worst thing that can happen? Because

18:17

sometimes fear is fear is powerful

18:20

because we never actually take

18:22

it to its fullest extent, and

18:24

we don't acknowledge that at the

18:26

end, if what we're worried about is being embarrassed,

18:30

you can survive embarrassment. If

18:32

it's that you lose your job,

18:35

that's something slightly more problematic.

18:37

But then does it mean that that opens

18:40

opportunities for new things? So confrontation

18:42

of fear is critical. But the same thing is

18:45

true of ambition, because ambition is scary,

18:47

ambition is hard, and so I

18:50

also encourage people to write those things down.

18:53

I have a spreadsheet

18:55

that I've had since I was in college,

18:58

and it lays out all of the jobs that I want

19:00

to have, and I wrote it down

19:02

because some of these are big jobs, and

19:05

you cannot figure out how to do things if

19:07

you don't plan for them. And so

19:09

I write down my ambitions and then I write

19:11

down what does it take to get to

19:13

that job that I want or to achieve

19:15

this thing I want. I'm a

19:18

tax, attorney, romance novelist, politician,

19:22

entrepreneur. Each of those

19:24

things that I've done has required

19:27

planning. I've recently

19:29

written my first book that is nonfiction

19:32

that required planning. There's

19:34

no reason for us not to hold

19:36

ambition. But more importantly,

19:39

it is exciting to have an

19:41

ambition that you can then explore

19:44

because one thing you find is sometimes you

19:46

want a title, but you don't want the job, or

19:49

sometimes you want the job but the title doesn't matter.

19:52

And until you make yourself sit down and think

19:54

through those pieces, you don't

19:56

know what you want for real. And

19:59

what I encourage people to do is to really give

20:01

yourself the space to explore

20:04

who you are and what you want and

20:06

why you want it, because

20:08

that's the last and most important

20:10

piece. Why you want something usually

20:13

determines how hard you're willing to work to have it. If

20:16

you want it because you're annoyed with someone else and you want them

20:18

to see how good you are, that will get

20:20

you a little bit. But if you're doing it because

20:22

you can't imagine doing something else, that's

20:25

what becomes your driver. That's what

20:27

makes you committed, even when the

20:29

fears become too large. So

20:32

if you're elected, you'll be the

20:34

first first black female

20:36

governor in the US. Um,

20:39

what does stepping into

20:42

like and facing head on such a

20:44

pioneering role feel like? Is it

20:46

something I know you've mentioned before

20:50

when your first, Like you have certain feelings about

20:52

being in the first But is that

20:54

is that feeling that's something that's weighty, Like does

20:57

it have any challenges that people

20:59

may not think about or

21:01

is it just a type of thing where it's like, I've prepared

21:04

for this, you know, Um,

21:06

this is the job that I'm here to do. Like

21:08

I I am honored and I'm humbled

21:11

to be in the position that I'm

21:13

in, and I would be extraordinarily

21:17

proud to become the first black

21:19

woman governor in the country,

21:21

to become the first woman governor in

21:23

Georgia, the first black governor in Georgia. I

21:27

grew up in a family that often

21:31

had wild visions

21:33

for what we could become and

21:36

who never told us that we could not be.

21:39

I'm running because I

21:41

know that I

21:43

have a clear and bold vision for the

21:46

future of Georgia, where everyone

21:48

is welcome, where every family has a chance

21:50

to succeed. But

21:52

I'm also doing it because I know that

21:54

I come from a tradition of people helping

21:56

each other. I talked

21:59

about that because the eatiness of this moment

22:01

is not simply about the first

22:04

that I will represent. It's

22:06

about expanding the sense of

22:08

what's possible for Georgians.

22:11

Too many people don't

22:13

see themselves in reflected

22:16

in leadership. They don't see themselves

22:18

or hear themselves reflected in the conversations

22:20

around them. And this is not just for Georgia.

22:23

This is nationally and

22:25

because of that, too

22:27

often we limit what our

22:29

capacity is. I do

22:32

not take for granted how important

22:36

my first will

22:38

be, but I also understand

22:41

that that's just part of the story,

22:43

and that my success comes

22:46

not in becoming the first, but

22:49

it lies in making certain that others

22:51

can follow and can achieve

22:53

even more than I do. Speaking

22:56

of others who follow, what would you

22:58

say to a child who think that

23:01

they can't be governor because

23:04

of where they're from. I

23:06

grew up poor in Mississippi.

23:08

I'm fairly certain there's a country song or blue

23:10

song about that. The

23:13

point of it being, there's nothing

23:15

about where I begin that

23:17

dictates where I will end up, and that is

23:19

true for every single person. Now,

23:22

there are truly systemic challenges

23:24

that cannot be ignored and

23:26

should never be made light of. Those

23:28

systemic challenges come from poverty,

23:31

from racism, from sexism, from

23:33

classism, from regionalism. They are all ways

23:35

going to be impediments that

23:38

try to preserve a

23:40

certain communities access

23:42

and deny access to others.

23:45

Our responsibility is to not

23:47

allow those systems to

23:49

defeat us. But for a lot of folks,

23:52

you can't individually buck

23:54

the system on your own. That's

23:56

one of the responsibilities I have. That's one of the responsibilities

23:59

anyone who runs

24:01

for public office has to not only

24:03

pave the way for ourselves, but to make sure we pay

24:06

that way for others to follow. And

24:08

so what I say to folks is you

24:10

may not be able to run for governor today,

24:13

but you can run for city council. You can run

24:15

for the school board. You can

24:17

volunteer. You can go to your

24:19

city council meetings, you can go to the

24:21

state legislature. You can demand action

24:24

from those who represent you.

24:26

Find the space where you can put yourself

24:28

into position and then keep pushing,

24:31

but also hold those of us who have achieved

24:34

accountable for helping you get there. Because

24:37

this doesn't work if it's only about me.

24:40

I believe that if you see a

24:42

challenge, if you see a problem, you have to take

24:45

action. Whether we're talking

24:47

about the extraordinary work done by Black

24:49

Lives Matter over the last six

24:51

to seven years, whether we're talking about

24:53

the work of the Dream Defenders, or what's

24:55

happening right now in park Land. I'm

24:58

watching young people, people of color, young

25:01

black people, young brown people, young

25:03

people across the country owning their

25:06

authority and their right to

25:09

demand better. Being

25:12

poor is not an

25:14

excuse for people not to listen to you. Being

25:19

from a minority community does

25:21

not give anyone the right to

25:23

deny you agency. And

25:26

we have to believe that to our core, and

25:28

we have to be willing to use our

25:31

minority positions to fight

25:33

back and to push for more, because if

25:35

we don't, we won't get what

25:37

we deserve. And what we deserve is

25:39

full access in our communities. What we

25:41

deserve is to be able

25:44

to tackle the problems of mental

25:46

health issues and mass incarceration,

25:49

to be able to demand better education

25:51

and stronger opportunities in

25:53

our jobs. Those are are rights,

25:56

and where we begin should never

25:59

tell us that we don't have the ability

26:01

to achieve those goals. More from

26:03

Stacey Abrams after this quick break and

26:06

we're back. Let's get right back to Stacey Abrams.

26:09

It seems like recently so many

26:11

more people who may not have been interested

26:13

in running for office before

26:16

are really inspired to do it because

26:18

of various reasons. And I'm sure that

26:20

a lot of people listening to the who

26:22

will eventually listen to this

26:24

podcast UM will be some of

26:26

those people who are thinking about running, who

26:29

have maybe who have various levels

26:31

of experience UM. And I think that's

26:33

something they might want to hear about, is

26:36

mentorship and people who have helped you along

26:38

the way? UM? What? Who?

26:40

What have? How have people helped you? How

26:43

have you formed relationships with people along the

26:45

way to help get you um

26:47

this far? So

26:50

I would begin by saying that I

26:53

benefited from

26:55

working with really smart

26:57

political leaders early on, even though

27:00

I didn't necessarily think that I was going to be

27:02

in politics. For me,

27:04

it really began with the conversation

27:06

of poverty, used poverty and civic

27:08

engagement. I was thinking about

27:10

myself more as an advocate, not as

27:13

a politician. But I

27:15

had the ability to work for Mayor

27:17

Maynard Jackson back

27:20

in the early nineties when he was mayor of

27:22

Atlanta and I was a student at Spellman College.

27:25

I worked for Shirley Franklin as a volunteer

27:27

in her campaign when she ran and became

27:29

the first black woman mayor of Atlanta. UM

27:32

I went to the University of Texas.

27:35

I was in grad school and got to work with leaders

27:38

in Texas who including

27:40

very briefly, I got to sit in the classroom with Barbara

27:42

Jordan's and so one thing I

27:44

would say is that your mentors can be people

27:47

that you know, but your mentors sometimes will never

27:49

meet you. I read a lot

27:51

of political biographies because I want to understand

27:54

the questions that we

27:56

have to grapple with and how people's minds

27:58

work as they think through solutions.

28:01

But there's also a very high utility to

28:03

practical training. Their groups like Run

28:06

for Something, Collective Pack Higher

28:08

Heights groups across the country

28:10

that are helping young people

28:12

get ready to become

28:15

politicians, to stand for office,

28:19

and to look for those groups. Indivisible

28:21

groups have popped up around the country. Find

28:23

a local group that you can join, because

28:26

part of the way you learn how to do

28:28

this is by talking to other folks who do

28:30

it. I'm a Democrat, so I

28:32

also encourage you to go to your local

28:34

Democratic meeting, whether it's your county party or

28:37

um A Young Democrats meeting. And

28:40

I understand that some of the folks listening to

28:42

this podcast are my age

28:44

or old forty four. So it's not

28:46

just young people, it's anyone who for the first time

28:49

sees an opportunity. And so if

28:51

you're a woman, Emily's list does

28:54

extraordinary work as his higher heights. If

28:56

you're a man, there are groups um that

28:59

again going to your state party, talking

29:02

to newly developed

29:04

organizations about running for office. Our

29:07

responsibility is to find

29:10

people who share our goals and

29:12

to get trained to do it. I

29:15

will tell you that there are very few self

29:17

made people in any aspect. There

29:20

are a few self made politicians. Everybody

29:23

had somebody who helped them, and so you

29:25

want to either be the person helping or you want to

29:27

find someone who will help you. And sometimes

29:29

that just means picking up the phone, call your state legislator

29:32

and say I'd like to come and talk to you, unless it's

29:34

somebody with whom you vehemently disagree,

29:36

and then find the person closest to you. Uh,

29:39

it's in your community, so it's a city council

29:41

member, county commissioner, judge.

29:44

But find an elected official and asked

29:46

to come and meet with them, do an informational

29:48

interview, Ask how they got it done,

29:51

what were their hardships, how did they raise

29:53

money? Sometimes mentorship

29:56

is what we have to demand,

30:00

and it's a moment as opposed

30:02

to a long process. But

30:04

whether you get it from books or find

30:07

it from strangers, or get to know

30:09

political leaders or get trained, build

30:12

the build the

30:15

curriculum that you need by touching

30:17

the people that are within your sightline. And

30:20

then whatever you can't find, reach out.

30:23

As you can probably guess, politicians

30:25

love talking to folks, and so

30:28

I can rarely imagine someone

30:30

who shares your political beliefs being unwilling

30:32

to talk to you. And if they are, then

30:35

you should probably think about why they're in office. But

30:37

find someone who's willing to spend some

30:39

time with you. I will tell you I've made it

30:42

a mission of mine to cultivate

30:44

young leaders. I have. I ran a

30:46

mentorship program, an intern shipped

30:48

through the caucus. We've had more than three

30:51

hundred graduates through the Georgia House

30:53

Democratic Caucus Internship program,

30:56

as well as creating a

30:58

group called Blue Institute, which is now

31:00

being run by my former chief

31:02

of staff and my former director of Copue Services,

31:05

which are both young people who

31:07

learned how to be leaders in politics.

31:10

So I take this very seriously, and you

31:12

know, if somebody wants to reach out to me, I'm at Stacy

31:14

at Stacy Abrams dot com or

31:16

just go to a website Stacy Abrams dot

31:18

com, and I'm happy to see what I can do to help. That's

31:21

awesome. So you said

31:24

before that people may

31:26

not have liked you, but they

31:28

respected you. I would imagine

31:30

that that's a pretty hard point to

31:33

get to. That a lot of people wouldn't

31:35

like being liked at least not

31:38

being liked at least initially. So

31:40

how did you get to that point? Um? Is

31:42

it just through your years of experience or

31:44

is there some like mental like toughening

31:46

that you did um to get there. Leadership

31:50

is hard because leadership requires

31:53

telling people you love no, and

31:55

people you don't like that much yes.

31:58

And when people see that, they

32:00

get really upset because they either think you're

32:02

being mean to those who are loyal or

32:05

that you're being loyal to those who are mean. Leadership

32:09

makes you have to confront

32:11

the complexity of issues, and

32:14

the results of that is often that people take

32:16

it personally. And I don't disparage

32:18

that I feel that way myself when

32:21

I say that sometimes people don't like me. You

32:24

know, I was reelected multiple times

32:26

and most of my caucus members like me,

32:28

but there are those who very clearly do not.

32:32

I don't internalize that because I

32:34

know who I am, I know what

32:37

I've accomplished, and I know

32:39

how to be critical of myself. I know there are places

32:41

where I was not as successful as

32:43

I could have been. There are ways

32:45

I could have done a better job

32:48

of communicating. There are

32:50

times where I could have taken

32:53

an extra beat to think

32:56

through what the consequences

32:58

are for someone else. Not that I would have changed my

33:00

decision, that I may have changed how

33:02

I delivered that decision. But

33:07

the consequence of being able

33:09

to be a leader is that you do have to

33:12

be willing not to be liked by everyone,

33:15

because often the people who are liked by everyone

33:18

aren't doing much. I

33:21

would rather be successful and

33:24

effective than be

33:26

beloved. It would be great to do all of

33:28

the above, but

33:30

the leadership is hard. Um

33:33

leadership is painful, but

33:36

it's also critical to understand that as

33:38

long as you're a good person who

33:41

is doing things from an authentic space, who

33:44

was willing to hear feedback and

33:46

adjust and adapt and

33:48

get better at what you do, than that's

33:50

your responsibility. One

33:52

of my dearest friends in the legislature is

33:55

the Whip of the

33:57

Caucus. Her name was Carolyne Hugley. Uh.

34:01

Caroline served with me as whipped for

34:03

the seven years I served as a minority leader. She's the number

34:05

two, and she had this habit of

34:08

asking me these rhetorical questions

34:10

to kind of point out to me when I was not

34:12

being as uh

34:15

people friendly as I needed to be. So she would

34:17

say, well, these stacy, have you thought

34:19

about this? And when she said have

34:21

I thought about the answer was of course not. And

34:23

so I just finally used to say to her, just tell me what I did

34:26

wrong. But what

34:28

was delightful about working with her was her

34:30

willingness to help make me better

34:32

at being accessible.

34:35

I'm I'm an introvert. I am

34:37

not highly social. I didn't

34:40

go out a lot and hang out with folks, and

34:42

that was important to people. People needed to see

34:44

me in a different context. I didn't understand that

34:46

at first, and so they imputed from

34:49

my lack of social activity

34:52

a lack of concern for their needs. And

34:54

it wasn't until she helped me see that connection

34:57

that I understood. It didn't mean that I was going

34:59

to start going out more, but it did mean that

35:01

I've found other ways to connect

35:03

with people, other ways for them to see more

35:06

than the dimension of means

35:08

that they saw on the floor of the legislature. Toughening

35:12

sometimes about toughening yourself and

35:14

recognizing that you aren't right about

35:16

how you're doing this, and

35:18

therefore you're responsible for

35:20

adapting to the people you want

35:23

to lead. What what does

35:25

it Thriving Georgia look like to you? Thriving

35:29

Georgia is exciting to me. It's a

35:31

place where if you are

35:34

a child zero to three, you

35:36

are in this high quality daycare

35:39

where you are learning every

35:41

single day, and where the children

35:43

around you are excited

35:46

and are not bounded

35:49

by their economic situation. It's

35:52

a state where, if

35:54

you're in case through twelve, you

35:56

go to school every day excited to learn,

35:59

and that you are served by educators

36:01

who are happy to be there

36:03

because they are making enough money to take care

36:05

of their families and they know that

36:07

when they help a child, they know that child

36:10

has all of the wraparound services

36:12

that he or she needs. It's

36:14

a post secondary system where

36:17

anyone who graduates from our high schools knows

36:19

that they have a pathway to success,

36:22

either through apprenticeships or through technical

36:24

college or associates degrees, or to college.

36:27

There's also one where you have thriving

36:30

and diverse businesses in every

36:32

part of the state, where no one

36:34

has to work more than a single job

36:37

to make ends meet, and where people

36:39

are excited about what's happening in their

36:41

communities, and not just for

36:43

themselves, but because they see that they are interconnected.

36:47

And it's one where the state itself

36:49

is doing its job better, where

36:52

we have expanded Medicaid so

36:54

that health care is seen as a

36:56

right and not a privilege. Where rural

36:59

communities can access the Internet

37:01

just as easily as someone who lives in the

37:03

wealthiest part of Atlanta, where

37:07

mass incarceration is a relic,

37:09

and where anyone who has committed

37:12

a crime but serve their time knows

37:15

that they are going to be welcomed back into the community

37:17

and have real opportunities for success.

37:20

A successful and thriving Georgia has

37:22

eradicated poverty, has

37:26

challenge the status quo where

37:28

it comes to discrimination, and we

37:30

have embraced the LGBTQ community

37:33

and the disabled and seniors,

37:35

and where people believe that this is

37:38

their Georgia. I talk

37:40

about inclusion a lot because

37:43

I know that the most successful

37:46

place is a place where everyone

37:49

is welcome and everyone can contribute

37:51

and everyone is served. Those

37:53

services look different, people need different

37:56

things, but fundamentally, we

37:58

will be a state where the leadership

38:01

respects the diversity of our state, wants

38:03

everyone to be successful, and is willing

38:06

to do the hard work to make sure

38:08

that we all can thrive. Could

38:10

you give advice to people of color

38:12

specifically looking to run for office

38:16

as a person of color, Do not

38:19

be dissuaded by being

38:21

the first or being the only.

38:26

Understand that even if you can't see the people,

38:29

there are folks around this country who are

38:31

cheering for you, who share

38:33

your values and your background

38:35

and your worries, and we are here

38:38

to help. But I also

38:40

say do it. Stand up

38:42

and run run for office, because

38:44

your voice changes the conversation. Your

38:48

ability to push for

38:50

change makes change happen.

38:52

You may not see it immediately, but

38:55

every person who stands for office changes

38:57

the dynamic of an election, and

39:00

then whoever wins. If it's you who wins,

39:02

you can do the work. And if you don't

39:05

win, you then have a platform

39:07

to use to force the person who was

39:09

successful to do their work. And

39:11

then you just wait and run the next time. But

39:15

the other thing I would say is run

39:17

for the things that is closest to your

39:20

heart, not for the titles it's closest

39:22

to your head. And by that I

39:24

mean if what drives

39:26

you is education, then don't

39:29

run for the city council. It's the council doesn't control

39:31

education. Run for the school board. If

39:33

what matters to you is mass

39:36

incarceration, find out

39:38

where in your political scheme,

39:41

in the structure of your your politics, people

39:43

impact that issue, and run for that job.

39:46

I think sometimes we get so excited about

39:48

the opportunities we don't always

39:50

think through what the job itself requires.

39:53

And so be very careful to run for the jobs

39:56

that you want to do, because this is hard

39:58

work. It's good work, it's worthwhile

40:00

work, but it's hard, and so you need

40:02

to be committed to solving

40:05

the problems that affect

40:07

you and the problems that animate you.

40:11

But most of all, do not be

40:13

afraid run. Running

40:15

for office requires raising money,

40:18

and often people of color, especially

40:21

women of color, are afraid

40:23

to raise money because we

40:26

either don't have experience, or we don't think we know

40:28

anyone with money, or we just

40:30

it feels weird to ask people

40:33

for money. Here's what I say. I don't

40:35

get to keep any of the money, so I

40:37

don't feel bad about asking for it. I'm not asking

40:39

anyone to invest in me. They're

40:41

investing in my vision, They're investing

40:43

in my ingenuity, They're investing

40:45

in the work I plan to do. And

40:48

I've become a very solid fundraiser

40:50

for that reason, because I don't see this as a

40:52

personal ask. Everyone

40:56

can contribute, whether it's a dollar, three dollars,

40:58

ten dollars, a hundred dollars. Make

41:01

certain that when you get ready to run for office,

41:03

that you are also ready to ask people

41:05

to invest in your vision. So

41:08

many of our people lose campaigns,

41:10

not because we don't have the best ideas, but

41:12

because we just hope people will hear about them

41:14

and will spontaneously give.

41:17

They're not going to do that. President

41:20

Barack Obama is the only human in history

41:22

who was able to achieve

41:25

that, and even for him, it didn't

41:27

happen quite as

41:29

fantastically as people like to believe. He's

41:31

been a lot of time fundraising.

41:34

We have to be willing to ask people to invest,

41:37

because if we aren't willing to ask them to invest,

41:40

we can't then tell more people about what we need

41:42

and what we intend to do. So

41:45

get over the worries of fundraising

41:49

and get to work. Apro

41:57

Punk Solutions Sessions is a co production between

41:59

apro Punk and Stuff Media. Your hosts

42:01

are Brigittad and Eves Jeff Code. Executive

42:04

producers are Julie Douglas, Johnson Cooper

42:06

and Quality of Hill. Dylan Fagan

42:08

is supervising producer and audio engineer. Many

42:10

many thanks to Casey Pegram and Annie Reeve

42:13

for their production and editorial oversight, and

42:15

many thanks to our on the ground Atlanta crew, Ben

42:17

Boland, Corey Oliver and Noel Brown. The

42:20

Underside of Power is performed by Algiers.

42:23

Connect with us at afropunk dot com and don't forget

42:25

to vote on November six,