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You're listening to the Airline Pilot Guy Show,

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the view from our side of the cockpit

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door.

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WAPG, it's

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the Airline Pilot Guy. Airline

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Pilot Guy, Episode 592. Yeah,

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he's up in the sky. It's

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the Airline Pilot Guy.

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Hello,

0:23

you're listening to the Airline Pilot

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Guy Show, the view from our side of the cockpit

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door. With your host, Captain Jeff,

0:30

broadcasting live from Studio 1A

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at APG Headquarters in Roswell,

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Georgia. Today's show is recorded

0:37

on the 3rd of November, 2023.

0:41

Yeah, he's up in the sky. It's

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the Airline Pilot Guy. Get

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your flight and he's flying by.

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With the Airline Pilot

0:52

Guy. In

1:00

today's

1:00

episode, a commercial flight

1:02

rolls off the runway while landing

1:05

in England, and Spirit suspends

1:07

training for new pilots and flight attendants.

1:10

We'll tell you why. Also ahead,

1:12

more news and your feedback. So

1:14

get all settled in. Tray tables

1:16

and seat backs in the upright and locked positions,

1:19

electronic devices powered on. I'm

1:21

Radio Roger, and Flight 592

1:24

is ready for pushback.

1:27

Thank you, Radio Roger. He is an award-winning

1:29

TV and radio reporter currently at the number one all-news

1:32

station in the nation. 1010 wins

1:34

on 92.3 FM in New York City. Welcome

1:38

to the Airline Pilot Guy Show. It's an aviation podcast

1:40

covering the latest in aviation news and

1:42

answering your great feedback. I

1:45

am Captain Jeff, a pilot

1:47

at a major legacy airline based

1:50

on Earth. And joining

1:52

us from his studio... In

1:55

Hartford, Hereford and Hampshire.

1:57

Professional photographer, former RAF pilot.

2:00

RAAF pilot retired Airbus

2:02

A330A340 captain for Virgin Atlantic

2:05

Airways. It's Captain Nick. Hello

2:09

there JFI2 and based on and

2:12

with November the 5th coming

2:15

soon, Guy Fawkes night,

2:17

please notice that I've got pet friendly

2:20

quiet fireworks in

2:22

the background. Stually

2:25

noted thank you. And

2:28

from his home studio in the air capital, low

2:31

and slow pilot, A&P, a mechanic, old

2:33

airplane enthusiast and engineer

2:35

in the aerospace and defense industry. It's

2:38

Nick Macho Camacho.

2:42

Hey guys, I'm glad to be back.

2:44

I just got, just rolled in last night from a long

2:47

work trip so I'm trying

2:49

to get recalibrated

2:52

here. You're out of it. I can't

2:54

jump when you sleep. Hey

2:57

Liz, do you have that little thing that electrifies

3:00

his seat just to kind of get him to wake

3:02

up? Okay, good. All right.

3:05

And speaking of that,

3:07

from her studio

3:09

in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, retired

3:12

financier, aviation enthusiast, spreadsheet

3:15

master and of course our producer,

3:17

it's Liz Piper.

3:20

Happy Friday everybody.

3:22

Happy Friday to you as well. Hi Liz.

3:24

All right. Have a good show you guys.

3:27

Okay, if we must. If

3:29

we must. Stand

3:46

by for news. All righty. This

3:48

first news item in

3:51

our new segment is sent

3:53

in from someone named

3:55

Captain Nick. He's the one that decided

3:57

that we should cover this. Plane skids off the runway.

4:00

way while landing at Leeds Bradford Airport.

4:02

So, Captain Nick, why don't you take

4:04

the controls here and tell

4:07

us about this news article. Okay.

4:11

Yeah, it was TUI

4:14

Airways Boeing 737-800 registration, Gulf Tango Alpha, Whiskey

4:16

Delta Tord

4:23

performing flight Ravi Yankee

4:25

3-55-1 from Corfu to Leeds in England. Landed on Leeds

4:31

runway 14. Just

4:34

approaching, let

4:37

me see, two o'clock in the afternoon,

4:39

so nine minutes before two.

4:41

It veered left off the runway

4:43

in the final stage of the

4:46

rollout. So he'd sort of done all the

4:48

hard work but then drifted off. It

4:50

came to a stop on soft ground,

4:52

about 60 feet left

4:55

of the runway edge. So a reasonable

4:57

excursion and about 1,340

5:03

feet short of the runway end. So

5:06

not a huge amount of runway left but then

5:08

again, it came to a grinding

5:10

halt in the mud. Anyway, there were no injuries.

5:13

The aircraft sustained minor, if

5:16

any, damage. Now, if you're going to go off the runway,

5:18

that's the way to do it. Minor,

5:21

if any, damage. The airline said,

5:23

we are aware of an incident

5:25

at Leeds Bradford Airport this afternoon

5:28

in the West Pond Landing

5:30

flight Tom 3-55-1 slightly veered off

5:33

while turning

5:38

into the taxiway. There

5:40

are no reported injuries and our ground

5:42

team are on hand to support

5:44

passengers as they disembark.

5:47

I'm not quite sure you'd quite call it disembarking

5:49

when you're climbing out into a filthless

5:52

of mud but there

5:54

you go. Now, in mitigation

5:57

for this poor crew who

6:01

didn't successfully negotiate

6:03

the runway turn-off, it

6:06

was pretty windy. So

6:08

they were landing on 1.4, the wind was 070, 18 gusting,

6:13

31, 32 knots-ish, not

6:17

particularly good vis, got a cloud at 400 feet. So

6:20

it would not have been the nicest of

6:23

approaches to make, but other

6:25

than the fact that they made, if

6:29

you look at the picture out of the passengers

6:31

window, all the filth, I

6:34

just wrote up, I feel the

6:37

airplane

6:37

is quite remarkable. It's gonna

6:40

need to go through the car wash, I think, before

6:42

they can do anything else. And

6:46

there are some more bits

6:49

of information. They

6:52

just say we're working with the airline relevant

6:55

operations team and emergency authorities

6:57

are gonna address the situation and remove the

6:59

passengers, no injuries or fires.

7:03

Airport was closed, however, which would

7:05

have been a bit embarrassing for everyone else

7:07

queuing up to land. Most

7:10

of the other incoming flights diverted

7:12

to Birmingham and Manchester around

7:14

there. And the

7:18

well-known aviation expert

7:20

Fiona Marr, who was with her son

7:22

watching the planes land when the incident

7:24

took place, described it as a hard

7:26

landing. The wings were going up

7:28

and down and it kind of landed

7:31

sideways and then ended up in the grass,

7:33

she said. It was a hard landing

7:35

straight away. There was a really loud

7:37

alarm coming from the airport, which

7:40

I've not heard before. And we go

7:42

up there a lot. Then the

7:44

engines came straight away.

7:47

They, the passengers, must

7:50

have been terrified. So

7:52

there you go. I think it was a pretty foul

7:54

day. The runway was probably

7:57

pretty wet, bit of a strong crosswind.

8:00

and they just

8:02

drifted off the side. Gusting

8:06

to 32 knots in light rain. Yeah,

8:08

we've had a couple of storms through

8:11

recently. This was Storm Babette.

8:14

Yeah, 70 degrees off at 32 knots.

8:17

Yeah, that's a little... Pretty

8:20

much all of it across. Spicy.

8:22

I don't know how easy a 73 is

8:25

to land a big crosswind.

8:27

This isn't a huge crosswind. 35, 40 knots

8:30

would be a big crosswind. But would have thought

8:33

with a very wet runway, it might have been

8:35

even a little bit of aquaplaning

8:37

in there. Well, they've been very

8:40

talented professional pilots, like yourself

8:43

and myself, Captain Nick. And of course,

8:45

Nick Camacho. We wouldn't even

8:47

be talking about this, right?

8:50

No, that's very true. And

8:52

really talented pilots usually stay

8:55

on the tarmac. And just a note to people,

8:58

the things that we have been involved in in the past,

9:00

we do not talk about on the show. Yeah.

9:05

Yes, all my runway excursions. Numerous.

9:09

There you go. But I mean, we've had some

9:12

pretty foul weather in the recent weeks.

9:14

So, you know, I have to say, I, for

9:17

one, am glad

9:19

that I retired, because it's when you get these

9:22

really nasty storms coming through, everyone's

9:26

a bit worried about it, lots of diversions,

9:29

lots of potential for incidents.

9:32

So, you know, I'm very glad I've hung

9:35

up my flying boots, quite honestly. Yeah,

9:37

we are too, honestly. Okay.

9:42

Now, that C47 is a bit of a handful

9:44

in the crosswind, isn't it, Nick?

9:46

Oh, yeah, definitely.

9:48

That big

9:51

vertical stabilizer back there makes

9:54

it... Yeah, and those wings, they

9:56

don't stop flying until you're barely

9:59

taxing. Yeah. All

10:01

right. Oh,

10:05

you know what I should do? I do have a video for this one. So

10:07

the whole time that you've been talking, I could have been loading

10:09

that up. But what was I doing?

10:12

I just sitting there. It's an estimate to

10:14

capture Nick's entertainment value. I know. I

10:17

just exactly. I was just like mesmerized by

10:20

the way he was covering that. All

10:22

right. So let me open this up and

10:25

we'll go on to this next news item.

10:27

Put some video from NBC News. I

10:30

had yet another confrontation of the cockpit

10:32

being revealed. A Delta co-pilot

10:34

facing charges of pulling a gun

10:36

and threatening to shoot the captain during an

10:38

argument. Here's Tom Costello. It

10:42

happened on a Delta Airlines flight last

10:44

year. Now a federal grand jury has

10:46

indicted first officer Jonathan Dunn

10:48

with using a dangerous weapon to assault

10:51

and intimidate the captain. Following

10:53

the captain, he'd be shot multiple times

10:55

if he diverted the flight due to a passenger's

10:58

medical event. Dunn was trained

11:00

and certified to carry a gun as a TSA

11:03

flight deck officer. NBC News

11:05

aviation analyst, Captain John Cox, was

11:07

also certified. The people

11:09

that were really heavily into

11:12

the I'm going to save the world

11:15

and I've got a gun, those people

11:17

didn't make it through. NBC has been

11:19

unable to reach Dunn. The officer says he

11:21

no longer works for the airline. The

11:23

indictment comes after an off-duty Alaska

11:26

Airlines pilot riding in a cockpit jump

11:28

seat last week allegedly tried to shut

11:30

down the engines on a passenger plane.

11:33

Joseph Emerson has pleaded not guilty to 83

11:36

attempted murder counts. He allegedly claimed

11:38

he was in a mental health crisis and had

11:40

consumed psychedelic mushrooms two

11:43

days before the flight. He had no intention

11:46

to harm himself or anybody

11:48

on the airplane when he acted. The

11:50

challenge for the FAA and airlines,

11:53

screening pilots for signs of serious

11:55

mental illness or aggression. It's

11:57

really hard

11:58

to predict violence. if

12:00

somebody is experiencing mental health symptoms.

12:03

Both pilots face federal charges of interfering

12:05

with the flight crew, a felony that carries

12:07

up to 20 years in prison.

12:09

Thanks for watching. Stay updated about breaking

12:12

news and top stories on the NBC

12:14

News app or follow us on social

12:17

media. Nice plug for NBC News app. Isn't

12:19

that guy got a huge forehead? Yeah,

12:22

he does.

12:25

Yeah, very large because of that massive brain,

12:28

that frontal cortex. Is that

12:30

what you call that? Must be a very smart chat. Sounds

12:33

good, yeah. Okay. So

12:35

getting back to, we don't

12:38

really want to talk about the mushroom dude

12:40

at this point. We want to talk more about

12:42

this idiot that decided

12:45

that he would threaten the captain and

12:47

the captain's authority and making a decision to

12:49

do a medical divert. And

12:52

what's interesting is I just

12:54

kind of

12:54

stumbled upon this other news item

12:57

or a news article

13:00

that said the Supreme Court, this is

13:02

from The Hill, Supreme Court wants

13:04

shield airmen from punishment over vaccine

13:06

refusal. The Supreme Court on Monday

13:08

ruled against an Air Force Reserve officer who

13:11

asked the justices to shield him from disciplinary

13:13

action over his religious-based refusal

13:15

to get the COVID-19 vaccine. But

13:18

Colonel Jonathan Dunn, that's

13:20

the same guy that threatened the captain, was

13:23

removed from his command and

13:26

faces additional punishment over his refusal

13:28

to comply. Anyway,

13:30

and the end of this article says that he has already

13:33

been removed from his former command including

13:35

for reasons of poor judgment and

13:37

abuse of authority, which justified

13:40

the removal independent of his refusal

13:43

to be vaccinated. So the

13:45

reason why he was removed from his position

13:48

of authority had nothing to do with his refusal to

13:50

take the vaccine. It's just that that's what landed

13:52

him in court. And

13:55

yeah, so now we're kind of getting a better, a

13:57

bigger picture of this.

13:59

This guy

14:02

Can you imagine that and somebody

14:04

well of course Nick Captain

14:07

Nick you can't imagine it because you guys don't have

14:10

pilots that carry firearms

14:14

And it's not a huge person. It goes pretty

14:16

stupid pilots. Yeah Really

14:23

you're going to okay, you're

14:25

a federal flight deck officer and You're

14:28

going to threaten the captain because

14:31

you don't want him to divert

14:33

That's just that just shows you right there that

14:35

the person's mental. I mean who in their

14:37

right mind diverting or not

14:40

Pardon me. I

14:40

wonder if they did divert or not. I'm not

14:42

sure the article really doesn't say Whether

14:45

or not the divert was made or not but

14:50

Yeah, that's you know You wonder how somebody

14:52

like that could make it through there because there's a pretty extensive

14:55

screening process for Pilots

14:59

entering the flight deck Federal

15:01

flight deck officer program. In other words armed.

15:04

Yeah, that's what I was I mean from this

15:06

side of the pond of course, we look at this with

15:08

a Like different eye and

15:10

that was one of the questions I was gonna ask Jeff you

15:12

know how thorough is the

15:14

screening for those flight deck officers

15:17

that are armed and I

15:19

mean personally I Think

15:22

it's a was a good idea to

15:27

Include this as an option because

15:30

you know the desperate straights that Passengers

15:33

went to to try and regain control

15:36

of their aircraft after 9-11 on 9-11 Just

15:40

demonstrates that you know, it would

15:43

it's really nice to have Marshalls

15:46

on board and if you've got a trustworthy

15:49

pilot who's well trained and

15:51

capable Then that is a you

15:53

know, a great last ditch defense

15:56

but So, you know, you've

15:59

kind of puts in question the how

16:02

they picked these guys. Was

16:05

it just that he was in the military? Was that sufficient?

16:08

No, I don't think so. I think there's more to it than

16:11

that. Yeah, it's pretty extensive

16:13

background checking and everything else. But yeah,

16:16

I don't know. Obviously, this guy is a little little

16:19

off. Yeah, indeed.

16:22

And also, if the

16:24

military knew about his

16:28

problems beforehand, that

16:31

they had already decided that they

16:33

were going to remove him from his post,

16:38

that obviously doesn't link back to his

16:41

employer. Because if

16:43

his employer had known about it, perhaps they

16:45

would have questioned his fitness

16:49

to be on the flight deck. So I'm

16:51

just wondering, in the same way

16:53

that I asked questions after

16:56

the German wings first officer

16:59

committed suicide and killed all his

17:01

passengers by locking the captain.

17:04

We were all asking how could this

17:06

guy who was under

17:08

medical treatment by various

17:10

doctors for mental health

17:13

issues, how could his

17:15

company not have been aware of that? Or

17:17

at least the licensing

17:19

authority in Germany not being aware of?

17:22

And we all ask the question, isn't

17:24

that stupid? Why are these barriers

17:26

there? Because in our job,

17:28

you really do need to

17:30

have that sort of information available

17:33

to all authorized persons.

17:36

And the fact in Germany, it wasn't authorized.

17:38

So it was hidden. We

17:42

wondered whether that was the right decision or not. And

17:44

in the same way, I asked if this is

17:46

the right decision. Should the military have

17:48

kept it quiet? Or should they have been informed

17:51

Delta? Yeah, I

17:53

agree. Go ahead, Nick. Well,

17:56

I was just going to say, that was the one thing that I was curious

17:58

about is

18:00

the line of communication there. You know, we

18:02

had a,

18:04

maybe three or four years ago, I don't remember when, but we had

18:07

another gun situation

18:09

where a citizen, it didn't

18:11

have to do with airplanes, but a citizen had obtained

18:15

a gun legally, but

18:17

after the incident and everyone started looking into it,

18:20

he basically had, he

18:23

basically had like denying characteristics

18:25

from his time in the Air Force, but

18:28

there was no like clear communication between

18:30

the Air Force and the law enforcement agencies associated

18:32

with him being able to get a gun. So

18:35

it was a big uproar back then about how

18:37

there are these two government agencies should

18:40

be able to communicate with each other to

18:43

avoid situations like this, and

18:46

this kind of seems like another example

18:50

of that.

18:51

I don't know how much of it would be hidden

18:54

for,

18:56

doesn't seem like necessarily health reasons, but

18:58

privacy reasons, but like

19:01

poor judgment and abuse authority

19:03

seem like bullet points one and two for

19:06

disqualifying conditions for what he was doing.

19:10

So if anybody knew about that in the FAA, you

19:12

think it would have

19:14

caused red flags to

19:16

pop up? You know, this Federal

19:18

bureaucracy issue

19:21

that we have is, I think they're

19:23

trying to fix it, just like we had the story

19:26

a couple of episodes back regarding

19:28

the VA and the FAA and how they

19:30

weren't really communicating. And

19:33

so, you know, we, and we have some feedback regarding

19:36

that as well later here in our show. But

19:39

yeah, you're right. There's like, who's,

19:42

are people not talking to each other here? What's going on? You

19:44

know, this is kind of crazy. Micah has got a comment that's

19:46

very... Micah is,

19:49

as in our live audience, these kind of communications

19:51

regarding guns never seem to work. The same was

19:53

true of the shooter appearing in

19:56

Maine from last week. Yeah, there was a

19:58

mass shooting in Maine. everyone

20:00

knew he shouldn't have a gun. But somehow

20:02

he ended up with one. He made threats

20:05

within the military, he made threats to the local

20:07

police, and his family was

20:10

aware of his mental

20:12

issue and the fact that he had got,

20:14

yeah, it's, I guess,

20:17

you know, it's tough. You know, there's so many, how many

20:19

people now here are in the United States? Population 330

20:21

or probably more like 350 maybe or something. Yeah, 350

20:25

million people, I guess. On

20:30

occasion, somebody's gonna kind

20:32

of squeeze through that crack or fall

20:34

through that crack. And I don't know, but

20:37

you know, in almost every case,

20:39

people that know these people go, oh yeah, oh,

20:42

it was just a matter of time. Well,

20:46

why didn't you say anything? Yeah, nobody would listen anyway,

20:48

and they're probably right. Sad.

20:51

Yeah. Bye-bye to you. It is sad. Okay.

20:56

We've got another video. We should

21:00

probably talk about

21:02

this one here. My home and forever.

21:09

Oh, it's Christmas. That's when

21:11

we all have to watch this movie. We're all gonna have that earworm

21:14

now. Absolutely. So,

21:16

you know, we talked about the 737 Excursion. This

21:19

was almost an excursion

21:22

off a runway in Zurich, an

21:25

Edelweiss Air Airbus A320-200

21:27

registration hotel, Bravo

21:31

India Hotel, Yankee, performing

21:33

flight 298 from Zurich to Faro,

21:36

Portugal was accelerating for takeoff

21:38

from Zurich's runway 32, when the crew

21:41

rejected takeoff at high speed,

21:43

about 140 knots over the ground. The

21:45

aircraft slowed, vacated the runway, and

21:48

taxied to a remote stand.

21:50

And we have a little bit of video to

21:53

present to you, and maybe we can analyze this

21:55

and figure out what happened.

21:57

All right, so it was rolling down the runway, down

22:00

the runway. The

22:02

runway trotbles open

22:04

wide. See the mighty

22:07

air bus sway from side

22:09

to side. Oh,

22:11

yes. Quick left turn

22:13

and then a reaction to the right

22:16

to keep it on the runway. Thank goodness

22:18

it was a very wide runway. And

22:22

they managed to straighten up. I think I know what happened

22:24

here though. Just

22:26

listen here to this. See

22:30

here, did you hear that? That

22:32

was kind of a windows

22:35

chime or something and I think that's

22:37

what caused the crash. Yeah,

22:39

it was Airbus, that was the Airbus

22:42

Windows 11 that had a hiccup I think and then it made

22:48

the rudder go full left. Oh,

22:51

no. But I thought it was that little squirrel. I thought

22:53

they were just trying to avoid that little squirrel. A squirrel

22:55

or a little bird, yeah, something flew from

22:58

left to right. But I think that was behind

23:00

them actually. But

23:02

yeah, so looking at the – there's

23:04

a squirrel. So

23:08

look at this, boom. It's just the

23:10

rudder seemed to be aligned just fine

23:12

and then right before the big giant swerve

23:15

you see the big rudder move –

23:18

it looks like full deflection to the left. That's

23:21

not good technique

23:24

in my opinion. So I'm not sure what's going on

23:26

here. What do you

23:28

think happened here, Nick?

23:30

Nick's? Well, I mean, I

23:33

read all this assuming I'm the

23:35

Nick you're asking and

23:37

everyone's here to think it was the first tire and I'm going,

23:39

nah. The first tire

23:42

does not cause that kind of

23:44

drag on the undercarriage. So you would

23:46

get a little bit but no, it

23:48

would be easily controllable. I

23:52

couldn't get the video to

23:54

play at a sufficient resolution to see the rudder

23:56

so I just assumed that was an engine failure.

24:00

But even so, you know, having

24:03

done so many in the sim, you

24:06

do get a swing, but it's nowhere

24:08

near as big as that. I don't think it was

24:11

an engine failure because this information

24:13

here is from the Aviation Herald and

24:16

usually in the narrative of this, they

24:18

would say, oh, there was an engine failure

24:21

and they had to do a rejected,

24:23

but there's no mention of any problem with the engine.

24:26

So I don't know. No,

24:28

I mean, maybe it was.

24:30

I can only think that someone

24:33

stamped on the rudder.

24:35

I mean, I can't think of another good

24:37

reason why they're playing with lurch in

24:39

such a dramatic manner. So

24:42

perhaps someone caught a cramp in

24:44

his leg. I thought, oh,

24:46

I just need to straighten my leg. I

24:50

don't know about you, Nick, but I know that

24:53

I've experienced like in the middle of the night having

24:55

like a leg cramp and having to get up

24:58

from the bed and like, you know, hobble

25:00

all over the place. I'm thinking, I hope this never

25:02

happens to me when I'm at the controls, rolling

25:04

down the runway for takeoff or landing. Because

25:07

if it does, it's not going to be a pretty sight

25:10

at all. No, very

25:12

directly. Or perhaps someone's chair

25:14

did something weird. Yeah. But,

25:16

you know, because there have been any history of Airbus

25:18

like I know the 737 earlier versions

25:22

of the 737 occasionally had issues with

25:25

the hard over rudder, but I've not

25:27

heard of anything like that with the Airbus

25:29

A320 fleet. I

25:32

have never heard of an

25:34

erroneous flight control input other

25:37

than that. Remember

25:40

the A330 that was

25:41

coming out of Australia and

25:43

had some uncommanded pitch

25:46

downs? Oh, yeah. That turned

25:48

out to be an Adiru,

25:51

the air data computer. The

25:54

voting system went awry

25:57

because two computers

25:59

failed. with almost exactly the same

26:01

parameters at the same time.

26:04

And the computer went,

26:06

well, those two are correct. And the

26:08

other one, which was actually the only good one,

26:10

I'm going to vote you out.

26:14

Right, right. Which Airbus have now

26:16

realized, despite the remoteness of

26:19

that possibility, they now fix

26:21

that. So yeah, couldn't happen.

26:23

Yeah, I think that was a former US

26:25

Navy pilot who was flying

26:28

for the Australian

26:30

airline. And I think they were coming in from

26:32

somewhere north of there and coming into

26:35

Western Australia to Perth, I believe,

26:37

and somewhere off the coast that event occurred.

26:40

And yeah, wow, it was very,

26:42

very scary. We talked about that on our show. That was the only

26:44

time I've ever heard of Airbus having

26:46

a significant flight control

26:49

issue. And of course, it wasn't

26:51

actually the flight controls that had the issue. It was

26:53

the data being fed to

26:55

them. But you know, whatever,

26:58

that's no excuse, you should build a system

27:01

that is completely robust. Having

27:04

said that, I've never heard of a flight control

27:06

going array like this on an Airbus. We

27:08

have to see a report on this. Yeah, we're

27:10

hoping to find some more information.

27:13

We'll be watching the aviation

27:15

Herald and see if there's any kind of... I'm

27:18

just going to put a £5 note on the

27:20

desk here that it is was

27:22

a pilot input. It looks like accidental

27:25

pilot input. I think you're right. I

27:30

think you're right. That stands for piss,

27:33

isn't it? Sorry,

27:36

that's, that's, that's, was Liz

27:39

in the background saying pilot induced observing.

27:41

That wasn't me just randomly swearing. Sorry.

27:46

Yeah, thank you for the context. Yeah.

27:49

Oh no, you're the one that came up with

27:51

it, Liz. So we're squarely blaming

27:53

you for that. Yeah.

27:56

Well, staying on this theme of... runway

28:00

excursions. The next item, I

28:03

don't think I've skipped anything. Final

28:06

report, let's see back

28:08

in, wow, wow, that's happened quite

28:10

some time ago, 2013. A Thai A3300 was going

28:18

from Guangzhou,

28:22

I always say this wrong, Guangzhou, Guangzhou,

28:24

Guangzhou, China to Bangkok

28:28

with two hundred and eighty seven passengers and fourteen

28:31

crew landed on Bangkok's runway

28:33

one nine left at about twenty three thirty

28:35

local time but veered right off the runway

28:38

and came to a stop with all gear

28:40

on soft ground about 1700 meters down

28:42

the runway. A large plume of dust rose above

28:44

the aircraft initially creating fears

28:46

of a crash followed by smoke from the right hand

28:49

engine. The aircraft was evacuated via slides,

28:52

fourteen people received minor injuries in the evacuation,

28:55

three of the injured still in the hospital care

28:57

forty eight hours later. Again, this was back

29:00

in 2013 when this occurred. So here is

29:02

the final report, boy, they take their time,

29:04

don't they? Ten years. Very

29:08

thorough, very thorough.

29:11

Okay, the

29:14

Thailand's aircraft accident

29:16

investigation committee which apparently

29:18

took a

29:19

big break. They

29:22

got back together and got this final report concluding

29:25

the probable cause of the accident or the accident

29:27

caused by the fragmentation of

29:30

the right hand main landing gear bogey

29:32

beam made the aircraft be about

29:34

the runway. We did, yeah, we did, yeah,

29:39

it was also a three thirty I believe. The

29:42

aircraft fuselage, both engines were damaged, the

29:44

right engine was on fire, however the cause of the

29:46

damaged main landing gear bogey beam

29:48

could not, I want to say like rubber

29:51

baby buggy bumpers.

29:54

The MLG bogey beam could

29:56

not be found due to the cracks were damaged while

29:59

the aircraft was scrapped. scraping the runway surface.

30:02

So, yeah, another bogey

30:05

beam. And apparently, and there's

30:07

a lot of detail here in this final report. We're

30:09

not going to go over it all, but I guess

30:12

you could say that to

30:14

summarize it in a way

30:16

is that there were some corrosion pits

30:19

that were, that should have been detected

30:22

but weren't because they

30:24

didn't do proper procedures

30:26

in reapplying some sort

30:29

of maybe Nick Camacho. I don't

30:31

know if you've had a chance to look at this, but there was something

30:33

they said that was supposed to be applied

30:36

to the

30:38

metal of the main landing gear bogey beam

30:41

that prevents corrosion. And

30:44

then over that, I think they're supposed to put

30:46

some kind of a regular paint over

30:49

that. But apparently, they skipped that

30:51

step or something.

30:54

And so little tiny corrosion pits

30:56

occurred. And we're talking fractions of

30:58

a millimeter, very,

31:01

very tiny little pits. But apparently,

31:04

it's important to detect that.

31:06

Yeah, so I'm just, I haven't read this yet, so I was just

31:08

glancing over it. But this is a, yeah,

31:12

so this one section that says areas within the

31:14

bogey pivot bore were found without the

31:16

presence of our

31:17

drox coating believed

31:20

to have been removed and subsequently

31:22

not replaced

31:23

at the right hand main landing gear bogey pivot pin

31:25

inspection on March 2013. So

31:28

this is a

31:30

like a

31:33

clear case of maintenance induced failure, right?

31:36

So they created a maintenance

31:38

step

31:39

that they thought would allow

31:41

the airplane to operate safer, but in doing

31:44

that,

31:45

and

31:46

it may have right, like there's probably good reason

31:48

that they need to

31:49

inspect this pivot pin,

31:51

but because they are taking that pivot pin out and

31:53

having to probably strip it to do

31:55

some sort of like ultrasonic or x-ray inspection

31:58

on it, when they didn't put the coating in

32:00

that immediately caused this secondary

32:02

issue. You

32:06

mentioned the depth of the corrosion pits.

32:12

One of the insidious things about corrosion is

32:14

even if it's small, it changes

32:16

the way that the member

32:21

handles loads. If

32:24

you have an inclusion

32:26

or a pit in an airplane

32:29

part and it's say

32:31

like 10% less

32:32

thick or something

32:35

because of a pit, it's not just 10% less

32:37

strong there. It also creates a stress

32:41

concentration there, so it generally tends to

32:43

fail much quicker because

32:45

you have irregularity or stress

32:48

concentration in that area. So

32:50

that's one of the reasons that corrosion can

32:54

cause cracks and then cause failures much

32:56

quicker than we would expect. Yeah,

32:58

it's not something where you're going to be able to see when you're doing your

33:01

walk around before a flight

33:03

because we're talking like 0.67 millimeters or 0.2 or I mean

33:05

just teeny,

33:08

teeny, I mean a millimeter is teeny

33:11

tiny to begin with and we're talking fractions of a

33:13

millimeter as far as corrosion is.

33:15

And also, I think this is

33:17

internal, right? This is like the internal sleeve

33:19

of the ... So you wouldn't be able to see it anyway. Of the bogey, so

33:21

it's not even accessible to the pilots.

33:26

And it also seems like there

33:28

was some confusion about

33:30

the inspection criteria because

33:33

it talked about this ...

33:36

I don't remember if you read the section on it, but it says DCA has

33:38

the power to regulate the six-monthly maintenance

33:41

report form that's prescribed in section 4180, Air

33:45

Navigation Act. I don't know what that is, that

33:47

six-month maintenance report form. I

33:52

think that's probably a required

33:54

form for that operator, for their ...

33:57

however they operate. Yeah, apparently there were a bunch of ...

33:59

worthiness directives issued by

34:02

the European Aviation Safety Agency, AASA.

34:05

But I guess the airline, they kind of interpreted as,

34:07

well, we've already done this thing.

34:10

And so we don't need to comply with

34:13

any of those others. Yeah.

34:17

And it looks

34:19

like they kind of

34:20

probably kind of stacked up on top of each other, right?

34:22

Because there was 270314, 2000, I'm

34:24

sorry, 2007-093 2011-0141

34:29

and 2012-0015. And then it said, the

34:31

content in the AD states that unless

34:38

already

34:40

accomplished or required as indicated, unless

34:43

accomplished previously, which might cause

34:45

confusion among the operators. So yeah,

34:47

it sounds like they just got all sorts of wires crossed

34:50

about which inspections had been done, which inspections

34:52

they had done,

34:53

which inspections may have been done before they acquired the airplane.

34:57

So clearly this is a case of pilot

34:59

air. That's what we're saying.

35:05

Just for those listeners who might be

35:07

a tad confused, can I just say

35:09

at the end, Navigation Act is the legal

35:12

process of putting something into law. And

35:14

the bogey

35:18

beam is the bit that

35:20

goes fore and aft in the bogey.

35:23

So you can imagine the four wheels there, the

35:25

bogey beam joins the front pair

35:27

of wheels to the back pair of wheels

35:30

and it should be a nice long solid connection.

35:33

And the OLEO that is attached to

35:35

the bogey actually attaches

35:37

to that beam. So that's kind of

35:39

sub is what's important for wheels.

35:42

And yeah, it's an important piece. The beam is kind

35:44

of sagging there. OLEO. Yeah,

35:47

it's a saggy beam for sure. Yeah, it's very sad sagging.

35:49

Yes. Very

35:52

good. Obviously thinking those

35:55

pivot pins are the pits. Yeah, I

35:57

was going to say the beam is the pit. Oh no, here we

35:59

go. I see another

36:01

alliteration title. We've

36:05

just had one now, come on. Yeah

36:07

well if we can't come up with anything better then

36:10

somebody write that down. They left a nice set of

36:12

rails in there pretty common. I really

36:14

did. Very impressive tracks

36:17

down the scrapes down the runway. Just

36:21

shows you the amount of force and weight on

36:23

that side. Yeah, it must have sounded pretty impressive. Oh

36:25

yeah. Yeah,

36:28

absolutely. Wow. All

36:30

right. Well now we know what happened. Let's...

36:34

After 10 years we know now. After 10

36:36

years we can all rest assured it wasn't pilot

36:39

air. Good. So

36:41

the next two news items, we'll

36:43

cover them quickly here, involve Spirit

36:47

Airlines here in the US. About,

36:51

I don't know, a little over a week ago there was

36:53

a little snafu and a bunch

36:55

of flights were cancelled mostly out of

36:58

their Orlando base. And

37:01

there was speculation that it had something to do with

37:03

the engines on its new engine

37:06

option versions of the Airbus.

37:09

But in this case, they cancelled 11%

37:12

of their flights on

37:14

the 20th of October to accommodate mandatory

37:17

inspections on the potential

37:21

fatigue cracking in a specific bracket

37:23

on the aircraft airframe. It

37:26

was a 2018 airworthiness directive

37:29

that one of those says it could offer us more

37:31

insight here. The

37:34

directive was a response to fatigue

37:36

tests that detected cracks around fasteners

37:38

and pressure panels. Additionally,

37:40

cracks were found under longitudinal

37:41

beams at locations

37:43

not previously included in the inspection

37:46

protocol.

37:47

This issue

37:49

predominantly affects first generation Airbus

37:51

A320 family jets,

37:53

or sparing

37:56

the new A320 NEO models. Anyway,

37:59

so it's... Well, the entire fleet

38:01

at Spirit are airbuses, narrow

38:04

body airbuses, but they have a good mix

38:06

of older generation 320s, new

38:08

320s, 321s, and A319s. So

38:14

there you go. They had a canceled bench and it was, you

38:16

know, a lot of people were upset. And

38:20

then this news item

38:23

came out, I think just a day or two

38:25

after that and said that

38:28

Spirit now is suspending new pilot training

38:31

after a tough quarter and also

38:34

engine issues. Spirit

38:36

posted a third-corner loss and

38:38

they forecast another loss in

38:40

the next quarter. The carrier-tall

38:42

pilots will suspend new pilot and flight attendant

38:44

training next month. The budget airline

38:47

reported softer demand, which

38:49

is kind of odd. I mean, I think that the majors

38:51

are experiencing very strong demand and

38:54

it will have to ground dozens of planes due

38:56

to a Pratt & Whitney engine manufacturing

38:58

issue. So

39:01

in the NEO, they're

39:03

using the, I think this is the geared

39:05

turbofan, the Pratt & Whitney. Yeah,

39:07

it is. Is it the 1100? Is that what

39:09

they call that one? I'm not sure.

39:15

So let's see, they had

39:17

the Miramar Florida Base Discount Carrier

39:20

said it expects to have to ground

39:22

an average of 26 Airbus

39:24

A320 NEO aircraft for

39:26

inspections of engines made by the

39:29

RTX unit at Pratt &

39:31

Whitney after that company disclosed

39:33

a manufacturing defect in August.

39:36

Carrier said it expects 13 grounded

39:38

planes in January, rising to 41

39:41

in December of next year. The airline

39:43

had a fleet of 202 Airbus

39:44

airplanes as of September 30th. The

39:49

thing that was amazing to me, of course,

39:51

they were seeking compensation from RTX for

39:55

this issue. And

39:58

last month, RTX, again,

40:00

that division of Pratt & Whitney said

40:02

that it expected repairs to take

40:04

between 250 and 300 days.

40:07

Yeah, that's a long

40:09

time. That's a very long time. What? I

40:11

had to reread that again, you know, I highlighted that thinking

40:14

that can't be right. With an average

40:16

of 350 planes powered by the geared

40:18

turbofan engines grounded worldwide between 2024

40:20

and 2026. Yikes, this is not a good thing.

40:26

Mind you, Rolls-Royce had a similar

40:29

kind of problem with their, remember their

40:31

Blake Corrasion issues. That

40:33

was, you know, an equally

40:36

difficult one. And it was really because of the

40:38

length of time it takes to produce

40:40

new engines and replacements

40:43

for existing agents. All

40:45

of a sudden, you've got this huge demand on

40:48

production, which is impossible

40:50

to ramp up in, you know, the time given.

40:52

So I suspect that might have something

40:54

to do with it. Also,

40:58

Spirit and well,

41:00

JetBlue is trying to basically

41:02

acquire Spirit Airlines. And

41:05

the Justice

41:07

Department has sued to

41:10

block the merger.

41:13

And this article says the trail is expected to

41:15

begin next week in Boston. Well, it's already started.

41:18

And so if it just

41:20

seems like everything is going the wrong way for Spirit

41:22

Airlines right now. Yeah. Yeah.

41:25

They're not going to be much for them

41:28

to buy at this rate. They're going

41:30

to get a bargain company

41:32

if they succeed in purchasing

41:34

the money. Yeah.

41:37

All right. Well, let's

41:40

move on to this next

41:43

item. Oh, this was kind

41:45

of, well, it's kind of funny for us because

41:47

we didn't have any luggage on this airplane. Let's

41:50

see, it wasn't an Indigo Airbus A321 200

41:53

N registration,

41:55

Victor Tango India, Mike Charlie

41:57

performing flight that from

42:00

Singapore to Bangalore,

42:03

India, was climbing out of Singapore

42:05

when the crew stopped the climb at flight level 270

42:07

after it was detected that the luggage of the previous

42:09

flight, flight 1005, from

42:14

Bangalore to Singapore had not been

42:16

unloaded.

42:18

The aircraft returned to Singapore for a safe landing on

42:20

runway 200 right about one hour after

42:22

departure.

42:25

Liz is asking

42:27

a good question. Point and balance, wouldn't that

42:29

be an issue? That would be my question, Liz

42:32

beat me to it. Yeah, she did.

42:34

Did these guys go off with a load

42:37

sheet that was based on no

42:39

luggage or did they leave

42:42

it on the load sheet? Either of which

42:44

is a pretty major mistake but

42:46

if you went off without an adjusted

42:49

load sheet unwittingly,

42:52

a hole full of luggage, that could have been a

42:54

disaster.

42:57

And the reason it could have been disaster,

43:00

sorry, is that if you try and fly

43:02

an airplane outside of the center gravity

43:04

limits, you suffer,

43:06

could suffer dire handling

43:09

problems and you know it can

43:11

be the result of a

43:13

crash. Sorry, Jeff. Yeah, and then your

43:16

luggage would be all over the place on the ground, all

43:18

over the airport. So that would be a figure. Yeah,

43:23

and your body too, yeah, well. But so I think

43:25

they were just trying to do these folks

43:27

a favor, a flavor. They

43:30

had just come in from Bangalore,

43:32

India and they were just returning the luggage,

43:35

you know, a little bit earlier than the people were expecting

43:38

it to be back in India. Yeah,

43:41

anyway. So, oopsie. Yeah,

43:45

I'm sure it's never happened before. It probably

43:48

has. It's just that we're just learning

43:51

about this one or hearing about it. This

43:54

next item from

43:57

Paddle Your Own Canoe. That

44:00

was pretty interesting. I was trying to say, did you

44:02

come up with this? Yeah. So

44:05

this, yeah, the article is

44:08

related to Airbus, but it really is

44:10

a ship. It's a story about a ship

44:12

that Airbus is going

44:14

to contract and

44:17

it's, I thought it was a very, very cool

44:20

looking ship. It just looks like they

44:22

forgot to put the sails on these masts, though.

44:24

Well, to me, it looks like an upside

44:27

down oil rig, but there

44:29

you go. Oh yeah, it does.

44:32

Yeah, so it's a normal-ish

44:35

looking cargo, what do they

44:37

call these carriers?

44:40

These...

44:44

Oh, cargo carriers. Carriers. Well,

44:46

cargo carriers, whatever. Anyway, containers. There

44:48

we go. The container is the word I was looking for. That

44:52

has the ability to carry big

44:55

fuselage sections and wing sections

44:57

and big parts of Airbuses from

45:03

parts of the world, Europe, and then over

45:05

to the only Airbus

45:08

assembly plant here in

45:10

the United States in Mobile, Alabama. But

45:14

the thing that's interesting about the ship is that

45:16

they have these huge pillars

45:20

that are projecting upward.

45:23

And I'm thinking, what is... How

45:26

does that provide any force

45:29

or any assistance? And so

45:31

it has to do

45:33

with something called the

45:35

Fletner, F-L-E-T-T-E-N-E-R,

45:39

Fletner rotor, or

45:42

the magnet's effect of the

45:44

Fletner rotors. And they've even

45:46

had... It's been a while, but

45:49

they've had airplanes that have experimented

45:51

with using this

45:53

physics... Propulsion

45:57

system. Propulsion mechanism.

45:59

system. It causes

46:02

an aerodynamic force to

46:04

be generated in the direction perpendicular

46:07

to both the long axis and the direction of airflow.

46:09

And Liz, if you'll, there

46:11

you go, you got, if you click in that

46:14

image, I think you'll get actually get to play

46:16

it. There's a way to actually play

46:18

this. No, back to

46:21

it. And if you hold your cursor

46:23

over the middle of it, you should see

46:26

like a play button there. No,

46:30

just hold your cursor right over that image that we're

46:32

looking at.

46:36

Yeah, and it's not doing anything. Hmm.

46:39

Now that's disappointing.

46:40

Maybe it doesn't

46:43

work in the presentation view.

46:44

Anyway, we'll, we'll, we'll play

46:46

with that later. So there, that

46:49

just shows that's a shame because I was hoping that we

46:51

could watch this, this

46:53

rotor, you know,

46:56

turning the cylinder turning and

46:58

smoke being blown past

47:01

it. And you can see how the

47:04

effect or the turn of the rotor is causing

47:07

a 90 degree force

47:10

to, to project from in this

47:12

case, the airflow is coming

47:14

from right to left and then the

47:17

resultant force is upward. And

47:20

again, that's the Magnus effect.

47:22

And then I'm thinking, well, okay,

47:25

so if the ship is going straight, it

47:29

would have to be a wind force coming from the

47:31

side, wouldn't it? To make

47:33

the resultant force 90 degrees. You've got

47:36

exactly the same, same direction

47:38

as P. Jeff, cause that was good. Hang

47:40

on a minute. How does this provide a forward

47:42

force? I

47:45

guess it's kind of like, you

47:47

know, when, when you have a, when you're tacking

47:50

with a sail, a sailing vessel that,

47:53

you know, you don't always have the wind right at your tail,

47:55

right? The, a lot of

47:57

times to the side. So

47:59

maybe it's

47:59

it's sort of like, I don't know, I'm not

48:02

a sailor so I don't know how all this stuff works.

48:04

Well yeah, it seems very directionally

48:09

important to get the air flow

48:11

hitting your rotors at the right angle

48:13

otherwise they're going to tip you

48:15

over instead of pull

48:17

you forwards so

48:19

very dependent on your wind

48:22

direction because you're going forward so

48:24

you're generating your own wind

48:28

heading towards it and if there's

48:30

no wind blowing you just can't use

48:32

these things I wouldn't have thought because they'll just tip

48:34

you over because any

48:37

airflow is coming straight towards

48:39

you and the

48:41

reaction is only to the side

48:43

so I'm going, I don't understand

48:45

how this is a very practical solution.

48:48

I guess they're trying to go green, aren't they Jeff? Yeah, they're

48:49

going

48:51

green. Yeah, so

48:54

I just need to go here and quickly push

48:56

that button. They're going green.

49:01

They're going to take care of your... And

49:04

because you've also

49:06

got to spin these damn rotors using

49:08

your own engines. Yeah, it's like direct connection. Yeah,

49:11

exactly. They're geared to turn

49:13

these things. I don't know, maybe

49:15

somebody out there that has some,

49:17

you know, some knowledge of this technology

49:19

maybe they could kind of expound upon it. But

49:22

I know

49:22

Boxer said that this ship is actually

49:24

an aircraft carrier.

49:27

Oh yeah, that's

49:30

um, yeah.

49:33

Got grown.

49:36

Not really that funny.

49:38

Tim Van Ram says there's a keel.

49:42

What's that? Tim Van Ram says, I wonder if the ship has

49:44

a keel that would allow sailing closer.

49:46

Oh yeah, I'm sure it probably does. I mean, I

49:49

would think any boat that's using the wind would

49:51

need a keel. I think

49:52

Captain Nick has to go over to Airbus and find

49:54

out what's going on there. Well,

49:57

I was quite close to Airbus.

49:59

little while ago so I should have asked them

50:02

shouldn't I

50:03

yeah

50:04

well disappointed you did oh

50:07

well yeah well this next item will end our new segment

50:09

with this let's

50:11

see

50:17

from paddle your own canoe two

50:20

passengers boarded a viet

50:23

jet flight from Bangkok to Taipei's

50:25

to a tool Taiwan Airport

50:29

on Wednesday with at least 28 turtles

50:32

to otters several rodents a snake

50:34

and a marmot and a partridge

50:37

in a pear tree

50:39

thank you thank

50:41

you yeah well they getting on

50:44

an airplane or not in

50:47

this case an airplane it's

50:50

surprising to think that the passengers thought that they could

50:52

get away with smuggling so many live

50:54

animals on the same flight but it turns

50:56

out that they were nearly very nearly

50:58

caught after their luggage was flagged for additional

51:01

checks at the Bangkok Airport

51:03

unfortunately after flagging the bag during routine

51:06

x-ray screening a security officer at

51:08

the ooh super

51:11

knob whomi super not be

51:13

going to airport so you're I

51:17

wish I could find that one yeah at

51:19

the I

51:22

can't oh that's the wrong one very very similar to spirit

51:29

just we're a jaya yeah

51:32

oh well they

51:35

failed to open the bag it

51:37

was flagged but they didn't open the bag and the passengers

51:39

were allowed to board the flight once

51:42

we were in the air several the animals including an

51:44

albino wrap and the rat and a baby

51:46

otter managed to escape the bag and

51:49

were spotted by other passengers in the cabin

51:51

of the viet jet flight number 564

51:55

cabin crew called on the owners to come forward and after

51:57

some initial reluctance one woman owned

51:59

up being responsible. On

52:02

arrival in Taiwan, the woman's baggage

52:04

was screened and a whole host of other

52:06

animals were discovered in her checked bag.

52:09

It's not known what the smugglers intended to

52:11

do with the animals, but Taiwanese officials say

52:13

the majority will need to be euthanized to comply

52:15

with strict quarantine rules. That's

52:18

sad. As

52:20

for the security officer in Bangkok, local officials

52:23

say that he's going to be flogged and probably,

52:26

no. So the animals weren't detected

52:28

due to human error and

52:30

that disciplinary proceedings could

52:33

follow. Human error and

52:35

several thousand bombs. Neil Landworn says it was

52:37

emotional support menagerie. Neil,

52:42

actually, it says Captain Jeff is great in our

52:45

live audience. Emotional support

52:47

menagerie is what this was.

52:51

Thank you, Tim.

52:53

Oh, look, I found it.

52:56

Time

53:00

to get to

53:03

know you

53:05

guys. Time

53:09

to get to know us. Okay. Well, then I'll do this.

53:12

Yay.

53:13

Getting to know us. Time of the show where

53:16

we get all caught up with what everybody has been

53:18

up to. And

53:21

yeah, um, Kamacho.

53:24

You've been very, very busy and

53:27

I assume

53:29

it has mostly to do with work projects

53:31

and such, but why don't you fill us in? I

53:34

think going on with you. Yeah. So

53:36

I can't remember the last time I was on the show. I think I've missed three episodes

53:39

maybe. Really? That many? Two.

53:41

Maybe two. Yeah, maybe two. Yeah,

53:46

I was on work travel for a couple

53:48

of weeks. So

53:51

out in the

53:53

St. Louis, the Bispel area,

53:55

when I left, I was a little bit bummed because, you know,

53:57

here we usually get.

54:00

like three weeks of good weather in the fall three

54:02

weeks of good weather in spring and then it's just bitterly

54:05

cold in the winter and it's bitterly hot in the summer

54:07

you missed it didn't you and it was really

54:09

nice you're right as I was getting ready to

54:11

leave and so when I showed up I told my boss

54:14

I said hey this better be worth it because you're burning two of

54:16

my three good weeks in the fall

54:18

but fortunately it got

54:21

no he laughed at me and then it got really

54:23

cold and almost snowed the next week and

54:26

it's just now returning

54:28

to pretty nice weather so I actually timed

54:31

it perfectly much to my wife's despair

54:33

as I disappeared

54:35

and the weather got cold really bad for a week

54:38

well so we got like four inches of rain

54:40

the first week I was gone in about a day and a half

54:42

and then

54:45

then it was down in the 30s and 40s last

54:47

week and now we're back up into the 60s

54:49

so

54:50

the weather has been nice

54:52

for my return I got a bunch

54:54

of stuff done for work and

54:56

then additionally I got to work on the

54:59

c-47 both c-47s the static

55:04

display airplane that's in

55:07

that's near us as well as Betsy's

55:09

biscuit bomber and then the second weekend I was

55:11

out there actually got to fly

55:13

it so there's a picture of me

55:17

in the first officers chair

55:20

flying with one of our captains we

55:22

just did a quick little local tour

55:24

here's the aerial picture

55:27

of Hearst Castle if anyone is familiar with

55:29

that it's a gigantic

55:32

sprawling estate they're just north of stainless-spice

55:34

bow on the coast of California beautiful

55:37

here's another it's out there in the distance

55:40

you can kind of see it in front of that propeller

55:42

blade but we yeah

55:45

we so one thing we found

55:47

is that we

55:50

even though it costs us money to fly the airplane it costs

55:52

us a lot of money every time we fly the airplane

55:56

the airplane is much more

55:59

However,

56:02

we have many less maintenance

56:05

issues if we fly the airplane regularly, which

56:07

is a pretty common

56:10

belief. And so we've really tried

56:12

to fly the airplane

56:16

no less than about once a

56:18

month or once every six weeks or so.

56:20

So if we don't have any shows or anything, we

56:23

have just a little local

56:25

scenic course that we take to get the airplane up

56:27

and get it

56:30

operational and get everything lubed up and

56:32

get oil splashed everywhere, run fuel through the

56:34

fuel system and keep it happy.

56:37

So that's what that was. We

56:39

were just on one of our little local

56:41

exercise flights, got

56:43

out on the coastline, got up over Hearst Castle

56:46

and got back safely.

56:48

Here's a picture of one of the

56:50

other guys took our T-34 up and did

56:52

a little formation with

56:55

us. So

56:56

that was fun. It was a good trip. Good short flight.

56:59

That looks great. You shot an engine down on that one? No,

57:03

I have not shot an engine down

57:06

on that one, in that picture. Okay.

57:09

Because what? Because the propeller's not moving? Yeah.

57:12

Yeah.

57:13

That's weird. Yeah. Dangerous.

57:16

Dangerous. I was

57:19

going to ask about where I'm trying to recall.

57:21

I've been to San Simeon and the Hearst

57:23

Castle, like some kind of a field

57:26

trip, or maybe it was a family outing

57:28

when I was a kid. And I remember

57:30

it very well, especially that pool. That is a

57:32

very impressive pool. Oh, yeah. I

57:34

haven't been there in ages, but I remember

57:36

them talking about the pool and the gold

57:39

flake, the gold leaf inlays

57:41

and the pool tiles.

57:44

Yeah.

57:45

It's amazing. It really is. So

57:49

is that pretty close to Paso Robles?

57:51

Yeah. That whole area? Yep.

57:54

Yep. So San Luis Obispo,

57:56

Paso Robles is about 30 or so minutes north

57:59

of San Luis Obispo.

57:59

And then San Simeon

58:03

is, as the crow flies, probably

58:06

the same distance west from

58:08

Paso Robles. So,

58:11

to drive there, it's a little longer, you know,

58:13

it's probably a half hour

58:15

drive from Paso Robles or

58:17

like a 45 minute hour drive from slow, but

58:19

it's, they all make this big triangle

58:22

and, um, San

58:24

Simeon's, you know, obviously you can see it's real beautiful.

58:26

It's kind of, there's a small little mountain,

58:29

uh, it's on the coast

58:32

and then immediately from the coast, as you go

58:34

inland, it's kind of this little mountainous area before

58:36

you drop into the little Paso Robles Valley

58:38

there. So it's a, it's really

58:40

a beautiful little place kind of, um,

58:43

off on its own

58:46

and a neat, neat place to visit.

58:50

Very good. What else? Anything

58:54

else? Yeah. That was about it. Time

58:56

to get back to, yeah,

58:59

any update on the engine. So I'm, I'm

59:01

close to putting it in the airplane. Unfortunately,

59:03

I had to extend my trip,

59:05

uh, about five days. So

59:08

I'm a little behind where I wanted to be. Um,

59:11

and I actually have the opportunity to take

59:13

a, uh,

59:15

maintenance course this weekend. So

59:18

I'll be, uh, a little preoccupied

59:20

this weekend. So I probably won't get back to working

59:23

on it heavily until the beginning of next week, but

59:25

I'm, I'm hoping we're still

59:27

only about a week or so away from dropping that thing in the airplane.

59:30

And then some pictures, then,

59:32

you know, a month or two of

59:34

me building up my courage to take it out and fly it. So

59:37

we'll see.

59:40

What could possibly go wrong? I

59:42

did get, so I had to find a man. I had to send a

59:44

bunch of stuff out

59:45

to get cleaned up

59:47

or Iran or inspected or,

59:50

you know,

59:51

the propeller governor sent the propeller

59:53

governor out, sent the propeller out, um,

59:56

sent my oil,

59:59

um, oil. pressure oil temperature gauge out, all

1:00:01

these things to either get

1:00:04

calibrated or recertified. So

1:00:06

I'd make sure I don't have any issues in the case

1:00:11

of the gauge or like

1:00:13

the propeller and the propeller governor. Those

1:00:16

are things that are directly tied into the oil system

1:00:18

of the engine. So I wanted to make sure they

1:00:22

were cleaned out and I didn't

1:00:25

have any like leftover sludge or

1:00:28

metal in those things that then introduced

1:00:31

it to the engine. So did all that,

1:00:33

dumped all that stuff to various shops as

1:00:35

I was leaving and then was just my wife

1:00:38

was just continually, you got another package,

1:00:40

you got another package, you got another package. And

1:00:43

I was like,

1:00:44

I'm not buying things. I don't know if that makes it better or worse,

1:00:46

but I'm spending money on things we already had. It's

1:00:49

not like I'm getting new stuff. Yeah, that

1:00:51

money's already spent. Yeah. Well,

1:00:54

you know what? You need to get a test pilot to fly

1:00:56

that thing. Oh, I guess you are the

1:00:58

test pilot. I am the test pilot. Yeah.

1:01:03

So I will have, I've

1:01:06

got a couple of different people that I'm

1:01:08

trying to get lined up to come and look at it. So I get plenty

1:01:11

of sets of eyes on it and then

1:01:14

yeah, we'll probably take someone up with me the

1:01:16

first time just because I haven't

1:01:18

flown the airplane a whole lot.

1:01:20

So I'm

1:01:24

not incredibly proficient. I've

1:01:26

actually, I've got a buddy who has a debonair also. So I'm thinking

1:01:28

about trying to go up and fly with him a couple of times just to

1:01:30

get, you know, my brain kind

1:01:32

of dialed in and make sure that I'm

1:01:35

where I need to be in terms of flying the airplane.

1:01:38

Come on, just go and join. If

1:01:42

I recall, Captain Nick, the last time

1:01:44

you flew a single engine airplane, you

1:01:46

had a rocket strapped to your butt. So it wasn't a big deal if

1:01:49

it failed. That's true. I'm

1:01:51

just about to tell you the last time I flew

1:01:54

one, which is very recently. Oh yeah.

1:01:57

You're good to hear about it. Yep. Oh well.

1:01:59

wait to hear about that. Over to you, Captain.

1:02:02

I guess we can. He's over

1:02:03

to me. Okay, right. That was

1:02:05

very nice to hear all about that and your

1:02:08

shiny engine. I

1:02:14

have just come back from Hamburg

1:02:17

where I did not have a hamburger. I'll

1:02:19

explain what I'm doing. But I was over here.

1:02:21

You probably wish you'd had. Yeah,

1:02:24

indeed, instead of what I did. I

1:02:26

was over there to

1:02:29

give a talk to the

1:02:31

Hamburg Royal Aeronautical

1:02:33

Society, which was very good for

1:02:35

them to fly me over there

1:02:38

and put me up in a nice hotel. And

1:02:40

of course, I took the opportunity while I was there

1:02:43

to meet up with our wonderful

1:02:45

listener and podcaster in his own

1:02:47

right, Stefan. Now,

1:02:50

Stefan, retired 380, captain,

1:02:53

has his own, well,

1:02:56

I say his own aircraft. He works

1:02:58

at a flying school. So

1:03:01

he has access to a lot of airplanes,

1:03:03

but we picked one that was

1:03:06

close to the hangar doors, save

1:03:08

a lot of message about, which turned

1:03:11

out to be a Piper, some

1:03:14

kind of single engine light

1:03:17

aircraft thingy. I think if

1:03:19

you flick one on, Liz, you'll see

1:03:21

the, there you go, a Piper

1:03:24

Aircraft Corporation. What

1:03:26

is it? A Comenci or something? That's

1:03:29

a Cherokee, a PA-28 Cherokee. Yeah.

1:03:33

There you go. So that's what it was. Anyway,

1:03:35

it was great fun. Oh, wait

1:03:37

a minute. The registration

1:03:40

is dead deck.

1:03:41

Oh, that's not good. I would

1:03:44

not want to fly that. Yeah, that. Yes,

1:03:46

you're right. I hadn't spotted that.

1:03:50

Well done. Stefan's going to love that

1:03:52

with his. Brilliant.

1:03:56

So we had to drag the

1:03:58

aircraft out all the way. passed

1:04:00

those parked airplanes and

1:04:03

I took a picture of it in its parked

1:04:05

position because Stefan said I wasn't allowed

1:04:08

to take a picture of those dead airplanes

1:04:11

one of which is a queen

1:04:13

of the skies lost a lot of

1:04:15

her attributes and apparently

1:04:21

one of the previous owners was

1:04:23

a company dear to my own heart so

1:04:26

I know where she came from

1:04:28

anyway off

1:04:29

we went

1:04:31

Stefan flew

1:04:33

me around we was great fun and they said do

1:04:35

you want to go and do some flying

1:04:38

and I said yeah that'd be wonderful so we did

1:04:40

some I it's not an aerobatic

1:04:43

thing so I did a steep turn I managed

1:04:45

to get around hit my slipstream which is

1:04:48

always good you always know it's worked did

1:04:51

a touch go go around and

1:04:53

a touch and go at a local grass strip

1:04:56

which was grand and then we did a tour of Hamburg

1:04:58

looking at the beautiful River

1:05:01

Elba

1:05:01

and it's

1:05:03

a fairly industrial place now hang on a second

1:05:06

here Liz because

1:05:08

there's some airplanes in that shot now that

1:05:10

is the Airbus factory where

1:05:12

they

1:05:13

they complete construction

1:05:16

and outfitting of a 320s and

1:05:20

they have got a little airplane park

1:05:22

out the front there so the

1:05:25

big question is what are those

1:05:27

airplanes now

1:05:30

there's a super guppy obviously guppy yeah

1:05:32

in the middle yeah

1:05:35

now the other ones

1:05:38

not quite so certain you

1:05:41

know I did actually take the trouble

1:05:43

to yeah

1:05:47

to find out what they were I think

1:05:49

the one on the right is a French thing some

1:05:51

kind of Atlas and

1:05:53

then there the green

1:05:56

one between the guppy and the Atlas

1:05:58

that looks like a transol And

1:06:01

then you've got a forward swept wing

1:06:03

thing

1:06:05

We're not

1:06:06

Yes, a German thing. I'm

1:06:09

a dawn of some kind I can't remember

1:06:11

the number don't you and then you've got another

1:06:13

thing with the engines Mounted instead

1:06:16

of slung under the wing on

1:06:18

pylon. So they're stuck on top of the wing

1:06:21

I'm gonna like a hundred. Yeah, that almost

1:06:23

looks like a baby

1:06:25

Guppy next to that super guppy Because

1:06:27

the engine there not like the super

1:06:30

guppy. No, it's not it's ever seen

1:06:32

nor Atlas. I said Atlas is

1:06:34

a nor Atlas Yeah, but

1:06:36

no there's a there's another thing with the engine stuck

1:06:39

on top another strange. Yeah on

1:06:41

the far left there Yeah,

1:06:43

indeed. So that was an interesting No,

1:06:46

don't want to go on too long trying to guess

1:06:48

but And so

1:06:51

let's flick on there there's

1:06:53

and of course we saw some of the nicer sites

1:06:56

of Hamburg There's

1:06:58

a beautiful Cathedral. That's that building

1:07:01

right in the foreground is their new

1:07:03

opera house And it's

1:07:06

great success. Everyone apparently deserves

1:07:08

it and then

1:07:10

we flew on back to our

1:07:13

point of departure, which was Hamburg

1:07:15

Airport and interestingly Stefan

1:07:18

lined up behind An

1:07:21

airliner. I don't know what it's a bus 320

1:07:23

or something And

1:07:26

I was going geez, we're gonna you

1:07:28

know, if we're not careful we're gonna get turned

1:07:30

upside down by the weight turbulence of this thing

1:07:32

because we're Landing directly

1:07:34

behind it but Stefan was very clever

1:07:37

He adjusted his landing point

1:07:39

and angle of approach to land at the intersection

1:07:42

of the two runways, which is well down

1:07:44

the runway So all the time we made our approach

1:07:47

we stayed above the weight

1:07:49

turbulence and the vortices so

1:07:51

I thought that was really nice job and Then

1:07:55

we landed there's a funny thing

1:07:57

sticking out the top of Stefan's airplane I

1:08:00

don't know what that is. Yeah, that looks aerodynamic

1:08:02

at all. Exactly.

1:08:05

Yes. But because we had to push

1:08:07

it out, Stefan suddenly found

1:08:10

a motorized towing

1:08:12

device which was like a lawnmower.

1:08:16

Was that one of yours, Camacho? No,

1:08:19

not one of mine. Attached

1:08:23

the front wheel which towed the

1:08:25

airplane in. And then we

1:08:27

refueled but Stefan had to point out that

1:08:29

they're right on the middle of those

1:08:32

stickers. It says NICS 64

1:08:34

litres which apparently how many

1:08:36

litres of fuel we had to add

1:08:39

because I was on board because I'm not

1:08:41

a small chap. So

1:08:44

they had an extra 64 litres on because

1:08:46

of the flying. And

1:08:48

that's Stefan adding all that extra fuel

1:08:51

here. Indeed. But

1:08:53

that was a great fun flight and lovely

1:08:55

to see Stefan. But it didn't end

1:08:57

there because Stefan

1:08:59

then we met up in

1:09:02

the evening and had lots

1:09:04

of fabulous German beer and

1:09:07

had a meet up. And there's some

1:09:09

audio to play please folks. All

1:09:12

right.

1:09:13

Jeff, hi, it's Nick and welcome

1:09:15

to Germany. We're in Hamburg. And

1:09:18

I'm at the Dust Store restaurant

1:09:22

and I'm here with my great

1:09:24

friend Stefan and

1:09:27

some new friends who will introduce

1:09:29

themselves. Now Stefan's putting

1:09:31

his hand in front of his face because

1:09:34

we've been arguing about the pronunciation

1:09:36

of his name. Anyway, look, here

1:09:39

I am. And we're going to go around the table

1:09:41

as usual. So all the best

1:09:43

and please forgive the finger

1:09:46

trouble. I'm going to send

1:09:48

you first of all over to my left.

1:09:51

Here we go. Yes. Hi,

1:09:53

Jeff. Hi, ABG crew. My

1:09:55

name is Kai. I'm located here

1:09:57

in Hamburg. I'm not in your industry. I

1:10:00

work for a major US IT

1:10:03

company. I

1:10:06

love flying my ultralight plane,

1:10:08

but that's all what

1:10:10

I have to say. Hello,

1:10:13

I'm Stefan. You can also call

1:10:15

me Steve if that's easier. I'm also

1:10:18

from Hamburg and it's

1:10:20

a very good opportunity to make Nick

1:10:22

and some other good friends. I

1:10:25

work for a shipping company though, but

1:10:27

I'm interested in aviation for over 30

1:10:29

years. But when I

1:10:31

fly, it's usually as a passenger. Hi,

1:10:35

I'm Tim. I'm from Berlin. I just

1:10:37

got my private pilot's license alongside

1:10:39

my regular day job. And in my

1:10:41

regular job, I love

1:10:43

that there is a relatively small community

1:10:46

and everybody is super inviting.

1:10:49

And now that I joined the pilot community,

1:10:51

I realize that that community is even smaller

1:10:54

and even nicer. So,

1:10:57

way to go. Thanks. It's

1:11:00

my turn. Hi, it's Jeff. Hi, everybody. Hi, Liz.

1:11:03

Stefan from Hamburg

1:11:05

calling. I know you're really up to

1:11:08

you about our German funny accent. That's

1:11:10

why you really love to record

1:11:13

our voices. I know that's great. I

1:11:15

see Nick laughing about it. Yes, welcome.

1:11:17

We are very crowded small places here. And

1:11:20

I'm going to, you know, getting

1:11:22

lots of German food into Nick.

1:11:25

I wonder how he will

1:11:27

like

1:11:27

that. And maybe next time we

1:11:29

see

1:11:30

over in the States or somewhere else and great

1:11:32

show. Keep on. Oh, back to you to the studio. I have also

1:11:34

that you have to cut the rest out. Okay. I

1:11:40

felt like you had a great meetup. Oh,

1:11:42

we did. This was a nice

1:11:44

old traditional restaurant and their specialty

1:11:47

was Vienna Schnitzel. So that was superb.

1:11:50

Really enjoyed that. That was lovely.

1:11:54

And of course, next day

1:11:56

I was going to give my talk, but beforehand I had nothing

1:11:58

much to do. was

1:12:00

going to be busy but then his student

1:12:02

cancelled on him because the weather

1:12:05

wasn't brilliant. So he pitched

1:12:08

up and we wondered what

1:12:10

to do. I would love to have seen

1:12:12

the miniature world that

1:12:15

features in Hamburg but it's so popular

1:12:17

it's almost impossible to get tickets. Instead

1:12:20

we went into an old Russian submarine

1:12:24

the U-434 and

1:12:27

we had a good clamber around

1:12:29

the U-434 which you

1:12:32

know a Cold War Soviet

1:12:35

submarine it was kind

1:12:37

of even worse than I could

1:12:39

possibly have imagined but anyway

1:12:42

we and there were some pretty tight accesses

1:12:45

to go in and I

1:12:47

wondered actually who made this submarine

1:12:49

because there wasn't any real way to

1:12:52

tell until we got to the engine

1:12:54

room and there I found a little manufacturers

1:12:57

plaque there in the middle

1:12:59

so that was no surprise

1:13:02

at all. What's a good Austrian name isn't

1:13:04

it Bojn? It is indeed

1:13:07

that's exactly it spelled slightly

1:13:09

wrong but there you go.

1:13:11

Very good indeed. So that was a

1:13:14

fun thing to crawl around

1:13:17

but as a parting gift

1:13:21

Stefan took me to one

1:13:23

of the lovely little cafes they have

1:13:25

on the edge of the river where

1:13:28

we had now I

1:13:30

have no idea how to

1:13:32

pronounce that. Matjus

1:13:35

Brochin? I know what it

1:13:38

is in English

1:13:40

it's sauced herring but

1:13:42

I didn't know what it was until it pitched

1:13:45

up and that's what

1:13:47

we ate so it's a kind

1:13:49

of raw herring

1:13:52

pickled well

1:13:55

pickled is vinegar this is sort of put

1:13:57

in salt with

1:13:59

the salt kind of accused it a bit

1:14:01

but that's what we had

1:14:04

for lunch. I was a very brave boy. Is

1:14:06

that onion that's also on there? Yeah, yeah,

1:14:09

I'd say that or a leg. Anyway,

1:14:13

looks like it's trying to crawl away doesn't it? But

1:14:16

this was another traditional German

1:14:19

particularly for Hamburg and of course

1:14:22

Stefan loved his and I

1:14:24

did my best to love mine. He's demonstrating in

1:14:26

that picture

1:14:28

just how much he loves it but

1:14:35

then it was time to

1:14:37

go to the airport after the tour

1:14:39

which went fine and

1:14:41

go to the airport and go home. So

1:14:44

that kind of was my Hamburg

1:14:46

trip all done and dusted. Quite

1:14:48

enjoyed the flights by the way, two

1:14:51

air buses that were fine.

1:14:53

After that,

1:14:54

only a few days, I think

1:14:56

I got one clear day at home, I was

1:14:58

off up to Manchester to

1:15:01

TASS, T-A-S, the

1:15:04

Aviation Society and

1:15:07

I gave a talk, second time I've been up there and

1:15:10

gave a talk to TASS and this was live streamed

1:15:12

on YouTube

1:15:18

by Airliners Live

1:15:21

if you know of that. They are

1:15:24

set up there. They

1:15:27

film aircraft flying in and

1:15:29

out of Manchester. I think they go further a field than

1:15:31

that but very nice pair

1:15:33

of guys and in addition to showing

1:15:35

pictures of aircraft, they get involved

1:15:38

with the Aviation Society at Manchester

1:15:40

and they televised their

1:15:43

talks. So I got televised

1:15:45

my

1:15:47

talk and that was Carlos from

1:15:50

PTUK who watches

1:15:52

and he went, oh there's

1:15:54

Captain Dick. We'll have the link in the show

1:15:56

notes to the YouTube.

1:15:58

Absolutely, yeah we're... this

1:16:00

is reminding that we're going to put a link

1:16:03

to the Airliners

1:16:05

Life and also to that particular

1:16:09

recording of the talk. So if you're

1:16:11

interested, it was a new talk

1:16:13

for me to give. It's all about

1:16:15

the F-18 and

1:16:18

if you're interested it's all there. And

1:16:21

while I was there I

1:16:23

also met the cadets of 284 Squadron.

1:16:27

They're RAF air cadets and

1:16:30

I managed to palm them off

1:16:32

with a few hats, Jeff. So I'm

1:16:35

slowly whittling down the supply

1:16:37

of the hat collection that you left behind.

1:16:39

What's my talk in German? Nine? Nine? I was very lucky that

1:16:42

most of the audience

1:16:51

actually were relatively

1:16:54

young and some

1:16:57

were retired Airbus

1:16:59

engineers, including a lovely

1:17:01

lady who had helped design

1:17:03

and build the A340, so that was fascinating.

1:17:07

Most of them are current engineers

1:17:10

or people living in, working

1:17:13

in Hamburg. And they,

1:17:15

of course, being a very

1:17:18

well educated place, they

1:17:20

all spoke pretty good English, certainly better

1:17:22

than my German. Yeah,

1:17:24

and back to Tass. I just wanted to thank Mike,

1:17:27

who is the guy

1:17:29

that organizes the lectures and

1:17:31

got me along. And Simon,

1:17:33

the chap who is one

1:17:35

of our devoted listeners, who

1:17:38

entertained me the first time I went

1:17:41

up to Manchester and I met him again this time

1:17:43

around. So that was all fine and be

1:17:45

great fun. And just a

1:17:47

reminder, I'm heading up to the Hawker

1:17:50

Association, which is at the

1:17:53

YMCA Hawker Centre

1:17:56

in Kingston on the 8th of November.

1:17:59

So that is early next

1:18:01

week and I think that

1:18:03

talk is at about 2

1:18:05

o'clock 1 45 I think they open

1:18:08

the doors and I'm giving

1:18:11

the the talk I normally do which

1:18:13

is about you know phantoms and Soviet

1:18:16

bears and stuff

1:18:19

so I'm sorry to have taken so long

1:18:22

this time but that has been

1:18:24

my busy very busy week

1:18:27

yes very interesting I have a question the

1:18:33

audio from your meetup I'm

1:18:35

confused there was a gentleman

1:18:38

there his name was pronounced Stefan

1:18:41

and then we had Stefan

1:18:45

are those two are those spelled differently is

1:18:47

one with an a and and the other with an e okay now

1:18:49

the thing that confused me is

1:18:52

Stefan with an e Stefan Stefan

1:18:56

he spells his name differently

1:18:59

on various

1:19:01

social media so I wasn't certain

1:19:04

of how the spelling was or why

1:19:07

is yeah exactly right but

1:19:09

there was also a Stefan there so

1:19:12

I had Jeff and Stefan so the heads

1:19:14

the discussion about how to I think that

1:19:16

just confused me even more when I heard that yeah

1:19:19

audio and I hold boxes knows

1:19:21

how to pronounce

1:19:23

Marches Bruccin

1:19:26

Marches Bruccin name

1:19:28

of that much that was that yeah

1:19:31

that sounds here is just a font

1:19:33

of hamburger a font a veritable

1:19:36

cornucopia font of useless

1:19:38

information yes douse

1:19:42

hiring for a South pilot is

1:19:44

what I have

1:19:50

to

1:19:53

say the beer is fabulous

1:19:56

and we nearly went in and bought

1:19:58

a marzipan penis but we didn't

1:20:01

do that.

1:20:02

Pardon me? Stefan was

1:20:04

showing me a cafe where

1:20:07

there are specialty cafe. Sorry.

1:20:11

There are specialty cafe. I think

1:20:13

it's coming in, Jeff. Where

1:20:15

you can buy a multi-pan penis.

1:20:18

And uh... Darn it. But

1:20:21

I'm not very good at this. I will wait. We

1:20:23

decided I didn't want one. Maybe

1:20:25

killing? Maybe Tony wanted one. Oh,

1:20:28

okay. That's exactly what I was going to buy it for.

1:20:30

I was going to buy it for my wife. Alright.

1:20:32

Well, that's interesting.

1:20:34

What are you ever doing, Jeff? Thank

1:20:36

you for sharing that. Um,

1:20:39

well, what have I been doing, Liz? Well,

1:20:41

of course I've been doing my... I'm

1:20:43

singing! You know, that thing. I

1:20:45

do a lot of that. Especially lately. We've had some special

1:20:48

masses recently. And

1:20:51

of course, this week, All

1:20:53

Hallows We... All Hallows Eve.

1:20:57

A lot of people refer to it as Halloween. Um,

1:21:00

because All Hallows is All Saints. All

1:21:03

Saints Day, the next day. Which

1:21:05

was, I guess, Wednesday. And we had

1:21:07

a special... I sang at a couple masses

1:21:09

that day. And then we were coming

1:21:11

up, um, this week, the

1:21:14

25th anniversary of St. Peter Chanel. So

1:21:17

there are some special masses

1:21:19

being held at our church. And

1:21:22

so we're pretty busy doing that stuff. Lots

1:21:24

of rehearsals and all that kind of thing. Um, and, um, let's

1:21:27

see. Oh,

1:21:30

also, I received an

1:21:33

email from one of our community members. And I thought

1:21:35

he wanted to meet up with me.

1:21:39

But it turns out that, well, you'll

1:21:41

hear... You'll

1:21:43

hear what the real deal is in this

1:21:45

audio from our meetup.

1:21:48

Okay, so a quick meetup

1:21:50

audio with this KLM crew.

1:21:54

What does KLM stand for? Go on and click

1:21:57

it. Look for it in my spine.

1:22:00

for him to say. So I was

1:22:02

going to say that, but I wanted to let my

1:22:05

guest here, who I've been

1:22:07

calling Juhr or Juhr, but it

1:22:09

turns out it's neither, so please tell

1:22:12

our audience how do you pronounce your name? Juhr.

1:22:15

It's short for Juhrion, but Juhr

1:22:17

is easier, especially for our

1:22:20

non-native Dutch speakers. Thank

1:22:23

you very much. So I'm here at

1:22:25

the Iron Hill Brewery in Buckhead,

1:22:27

an upscale area of Atlanta, because

1:22:29

only the best

1:22:32

for the KLM crew. Buckhead.

1:22:35

That's a pretty nice hotel you're staying in, right? JW

1:22:38

Marriott's? I've seen worse. Anyway,

1:22:41

so Juhr called me up and said, or

1:22:44

actually emailed me and said he was going

1:22:46

to be here. And so

1:22:49

here I am after the

1:22:51

five o'clock mass headed down and got

1:22:53

to meet this wonderful group of people.

1:22:56

You know, aviation, professional airline

1:22:59

crews are always, for the most part,

1:23:02

awesome people. And

1:23:04

so I'm going to say Juhr for

1:23:06

last, if you don't mind. If you want

1:23:09

to say something, you can even

1:23:11

just say hi or whatever. You don't have to say anything

1:23:13

if you don't want. No? You

1:23:15

don't want to say anything? Oh, okay. Juhr?

1:23:18

What the?

1:23:19

Hi. Oh, I like that. Hi.

1:23:23

And what's your name? Marilain. Yeah,

1:23:26

I tried to remember that and that

1:23:29

didn't work. Okay, so we're going to pass the microphone

1:23:31

around and I think this guy right here, he is

1:23:33

the first officer of the crew and he looks to me

1:23:35

like he's not afraid to say something. So

1:23:38

now I have to. My name is Jelven,

1:23:41

first officer of this KLM crew.

1:23:45

And I'm very happy to be here in, how

1:23:48

it's called again, the Iron Hill. Iron

1:23:51

Hill, great beer, I must say. And

1:23:55

the Empire of the South, what do you call it?

1:23:58

Yeah, and it's nice to be here. to visit to

1:24:00

see you get interesting now

1:24:04

i've got a dog that's all that a lot of it yeah

1:24:06

jeff nice to meet you here you're interesting

1:24:09

that's not necessarily a good thing that

1:24:12

i'll take it thank you very nice to meet you as

1:24:14

well and uh... and of course the

1:24:16

guy that kind of organized

1:24:18

this and made it all happen uh... you're

1:24:21

here so uh... say something to

1:24:23

our a p g community sir uh...

1:24:25

well i was actually uh... looking for the

1:24:28

beer pointers uh... in atlanta but now

1:24:30

i have the honor to meeting and captain jeff himself

1:24:32

in the flesh is really cool junior

1:24:35

member of the uh... a p community but uh...

1:24:38

and join us and uh... wishing you well hope

1:24:41

that the more because so

1:24:43

what i'm getting from this is he really did not want

1:24:45

to meet with me he does want

1:24:48

to meet again and some good pointers

1:24:50

forget food and good beer well

1:24:53

sorry part of the supply now anyway

1:24:56

that very nice to uh... meet you in person

1:24:58

and as always is great to be with

1:25:00

us wonderful airline crew and that's

1:25:04

about it i think i'm gonna go ahead and just send

1:25:06

this back to the studio so

1:25:09

what you uh... pay how how about

1:25:11

this in dot say

1:25:14

back to you in the studio jeff there's

1:25:17

no studio jeff

1:25:21

it was a uh... really really nice meet-up

1:25:23

uh... with your and his crew uh...

1:25:26

you know that the first person i tried to stick

1:25:28

a microphone in front of was his second officer

1:25:31

and he had didn't want anything

1:25:33

to do with it uh... uh...

1:25:37

he did not threaten me with a gun that's true

1:25:39

yeah thankfully uh... yeah

1:25:42

so we had a good time good uh... food good

1:25:44

beer and uh... it was there

1:25:47

was a flight attendant there yet marion molly on

1:25:49

their whatever i think her name was i did not use

1:25:51

in their yeah

1:25:54

i think i was because i was talking to you uh... when when

1:25:56

she was talking sorry uh...

1:25:59

but anyway It was a great time.

1:26:01

That was a busy day for me. I did my normal

1:26:04

four masses and then between the third

1:26:06

and fourth mass, I

1:26:08

met with Natalie, my youngest, and

1:26:11

we had a very nice lunch here in historic

1:26:13

Roswell and then went back to

1:26:16

the five o'clock and then down to Buck Cat

1:26:18

to meet up with the KLM crew. And

1:26:20

it was definitely ready for some beer

1:26:23

that evening. It was a great day. Jam-packed

1:26:26

with all kinds of great stuff. What

1:26:29

you got coming up? I also wanted to mention

1:26:32

that the

1:26:35

last show or the

1:26:37

one we talked about, I think it was the last show, we were talking

1:26:39

about the meltdown of

1:26:42

the dude that hadn't had

1:26:44

a lot of sleep and did the magic

1:26:46

mushrooms and tried to pull

1:26:48

the fire handles. I had a nice

1:26:51

comment on the video from

1:26:53

somebody named, well, I don't know what his name is, PD

1:26:56

Questions is the YouTube channel, PD

1:26:58

Questions 7673. He said,

1:27:02

love this podcast, really appreciate your perspective

1:27:05

on aviation incidents. I'm not

1:27:07

sure if mental health is the problem in aviation,

1:27:10

considering the number of recent losses of separation

1:27:12

and runway slash airport environments

1:27:15

and an actual recent collision at Houston

1:27:18

hobby. I think we should expand

1:27:20

our concern to look carefully at mental fitness

1:27:22

beyond just being healthy. I

1:27:24

don't know if it's complacency or just a robotic

1:27:27

confidence in the system, but I

1:27:30

think mental sharpness and fitness

1:27:32

of pilots is an issue. Maybe

1:27:34

if we raise the standard to something way above

1:27:37

simply being free of mental conditions

1:27:40

and instead establish a standard,

1:27:42

mental fitness for aviation should be more akin

1:27:45

to being a mental athlete than

1:27:47

maybe people struggling with personal issues and

1:27:49

depression will see it more clearly and

1:27:51

they have to self eliminate and not

1:27:54

get anywhere near a

1:27:56

cockpit. All I have to say about that is

1:27:58

I'm glad that they don't have super high mental

1:28:01

athlete standards. But I'm

1:28:03

glad that I'm about to retire. And that

1:28:05

way, they wouldn't have to weed me out

1:28:07

of the system. Yeah, you and me. Oh,

1:28:14

and I should

1:28:16

mention also quickly that Faro

1:28:18

de Pueblo, the Brazilian

1:28:21

podcast, Landing Light, published

1:28:24

their show that they

1:28:27

interviewed me on. And normally, their

1:28:29

shows only last about an hour, or maybe

1:28:31

a little bit more. This one was two

1:28:33

hours and 49 minutes. Got to get it back

1:28:35

three hours, I'm saying. I almost

1:28:38

three hours of me just talking.

1:28:43

No one understanding a word you're

1:28:45

saying, yeah? Not exactly. These

1:28:48

poor Brazilian people are going, what? Anyway,

1:28:52

for many reasons for them saying what?

1:28:56

We'll put a link to that in the show notes,

1:28:58

if you're interested to hear me, you know, go on

1:29:00

and on and on about the whole how I

1:29:02

got into flying and podcasting

1:29:04

and all that kind of stuff. Another meetup coming up next weekend,

1:29:06

yeah? Anyway, oh, yeah, there is another meetup coming

1:29:09

up on this next weekend.

1:29:11

And let's hear about that.

1:29:15

Hey, Captain Jeff, Dr. Steph,

1:29:17

Miami, Rick, if you're there, one never knows.

1:29:19

Hey, Captain Nick, and Nick

1:29:22

Camacho. Hello, everybody. And hello, APG

1:29:24

listeners. This is your main man, Micah. And you

1:29:27

know, it's Halloween season. So Brian

1:29:29

and I decided to do something really spooky. We're

1:29:31

going

1:29:32

to have a meetup.

1:29:33

Yes, we're going to have a, the

1:29:36

journey is a reward meetup, but all APG listeners

1:29:39

are invited. And that's going to take place in

1:29:41

Tampa, Florida. And you know when that's going

1:29:43

to happen? Why don't you tell them, Brian? It's

1:29:46

Sunday, November 12th at 4pm.

1:29:48

And we're meeting at your pizza shop.

1:29:51

It's not my pizza shop. It's the pizza

1:29:53

shop called your pizza shop. And

1:29:55

it's located at 1200 8th Avenue in Largo.

1:29:59

And the menu looks great and they've got a wonderful

1:30:02

selection of beers. And we're hoping

1:30:04

that a bunch of listeners will join us here. We'd

1:30:07

love to meet you. We'd love to get a chance

1:30:09

to get together and look, you guys, you're

1:30:11

all invited. So Jeff, you know, you're practically

1:30:13

retired now. Why don't you fly down for the day? Yeah,

1:30:16

fly down to Tampa and come

1:30:18

visit with us. We'd love to see you there.

1:30:22

Yeah,

1:30:22

I wish I could, but I'm going to

1:30:24

be up in Annapolis for

1:30:26

a football game. Um,

1:30:28

but, uh, I know you guys will have a great time

1:30:30

and I'm hoping that, uh, people that are listening to

1:30:33

this show and that live in the Tampa,

1:30:35

uh, the greater Tampa

1:30:37

St. Petersburg area, we'll have a chance to

1:30:39

head to Largo for some good pizza

1:30:42

and beer and all that stuff.

1:30:45

All right. Um,

1:30:47

now captain Nick, if, uh,

1:30:49

you'll tell us about this wonderful,

1:30:51

uh, cover art from,

1:30:53

from the last episode. Well, I wasn't

1:30:56

on the show. So I kind of

1:30:58

got a quick brief. Uh, it was

1:31:00

a great show. Yeah. I

1:31:03

can see it would have been without me. Um,

1:31:06

so that was the, I was, I was

1:31:08

given as a title threat level five nine

1:31:11

one. And it was about the guy who, uh,

1:31:13

went a bit loopy on the flight deck.

1:31:15

So I tried to do a loopy guy on

1:31:18

the flight deck, pulling the levers

1:31:20

and,

1:31:21

and, um, yeah. And then I hid

1:31:23

the show number so that no one

1:31:25

would find it. Uh,

1:31:28

and, uh, of course it's there, plain

1:31:31

and simple. It's the title.

1:31:33

So, uh, that

1:31:36

was it. Not a hard one,

1:31:38

but, uh, uh, I thought he looked

1:31:40

quite interesting. Really. Uh, just

1:31:42

to sort of man, you want to have working beside

1:31:44

you.

1:31:46

Yeah. Kind of looked at that. That's a younger

1:31:48

looking, uh, that's what I looked like when I was a little bit

1:31:50

younger, I think when you had

1:31:52

that. Yes.

1:31:56

I still have hair.

1:31:57

Just just lighter hair.

1:31:59

Is it yours? Yeah,

1:32:03

this is my real hair. Oh, okay.

1:32:08

All right, well

1:32:10

done sir, well done.

1:32:19

Yes,

1:32:21

please.

1:32:22

I love coffee.

1:32:25

I love tea. I

1:32:28

love the APG community. Coffee

1:32:32

and tea and the Java

1:32:35

and me. A cup, a cup, a cup, a cup,

1:32:37

a cup. Oh

1:32:39

yeah, the Coffee Fund. It's your way to

1:32:42

support the show in a financial way if

1:32:44

you have the financial resources

1:32:46

to do that. And let's

1:32:49

see, we have a couple different things, mechanisms

1:32:51

for you to do that. One's called the Coffee

1:32:53

Fund Classic Method, which is basically a

1:32:55

PayPal donation page. We have our

1:32:58

monthly contributors that

1:33:01

are still going strong. Thank you. But

1:33:04

most of the time it's used for like

1:33:06

one off kind of every now and then

1:33:08

kind of contributions and

1:33:11

none using that mechanism since

1:33:13

the last episode. But we do have

1:33:16

a new patron, patreon.com. The

1:33:19

other way that you can support the show financially

1:33:21

and be part of the Coffee Fund cadre. Keith

1:33:25

Carlson. Now you may have heard of

1:33:28

Keith. You sent in feedback in the past. He

1:33:31

ended up getting a Light

1:33:33

Sport license or Light

1:33:35

Sport certificate, I guess more correctly.

1:33:38

And then he ended up buying a

1:33:41

Light Sport aircraft and he filled

1:33:43

us in on flying it down

1:33:46

to Little Rock, Arkansas and and

1:33:49

some of the things that he's been doing with that. And

1:33:51

I got a chance to meet up with Keith

1:33:54

and Tim Qualls and Keith's

1:33:56

family. I don't know,

1:33:59

last year sometime, I think. in

1:34:01

Little Rock at a very nice restaurant and

1:34:04

Keith treated for that. That was

1:34:06

very nice. And so

1:34:09

he is the new patron Keith

1:34:11

and he also sent this

1:34:14

message on Patreon. Captain

1:34:17

Jeff and APG crew, our old

1:34:19

friend Keith from Little Rock, hope all

1:34:21

is well. I've been meaning to do this for a

1:34:23

while and become a patron. Apologies

1:34:27

for not doing sooner. Your

1:34:29

podcast was an early inspiration to me

1:34:31

to finally live my dream and get

1:34:33

my pilot's license. And so the least

1:34:36

I can do is repay the favor. Thank

1:34:38

you for all you do. Some exciting news

1:34:41

in my world, given the state of my current

1:34:43

industry, which is mortgage lending and

1:34:45

current state of the airline business and the pilot shortage.

1:34:48

I've decided to go full throttle

1:34:50

into my rating and hours with a goal

1:34:52

of early to mid 2025

1:34:55

to reach the magical 1500 hours and

1:34:57

apply to the regionals. It's been my

1:34:59

lifelong dream to be an airline pilot. And

1:35:02

for much of my life, I didn't think

1:35:04

it possible with encouragement from

1:35:06

a pilot friend at Envoy and

1:35:09

another at United. This is the time

1:35:11

I'll be 44 when I hit the 1500 hours

1:35:14

mark and would still have at

1:35:16

least a 20 year career ahead

1:35:18

of me. I'm about to complete my instrument

1:35:21

rating and then we'll do the commercial quickly

1:35:23

thereafter leading into CFI and

1:35:25

then multi. If you'll remember,

1:35:27

I started my journey with just my sport

1:35:30

pilot license but have since picked up my

1:35:32

PPL and my complex endorsement.

1:35:35

I have to fly about 20 hours per week

1:35:37

over this next year. So lots of early mornings

1:35:39

and late afternoons around my work schedule. And

1:35:42

once I have the CFI, I'll supplement

1:35:44

flying my own aircraft with picking up

1:35:46

a few students at the local flight school. I'll

1:35:49

keep everyone posted on my journey and thank

1:35:51

you again for the fabulous show, maintaining

1:35:54

the 50% and keeping me

1:35:56

company on those long cross

1:35:58

countries. Cheers. Keith,

1:36:00

wow. Thank you, Keith, for that wonderful

1:36:03

note. And yeah, we need

1:36:05

to bring the applause for that. And

1:36:08

I don't know why I can't see it here.

1:36:10

Here we go. That'll work. Good

1:36:13

job. And yeah,

1:36:16

we're really looking forward to

1:36:19

hearing updates on

1:36:21

your progress. And that's so cool, making

1:36:23

a mid-career change

1:36:27

like this. It's pretty,

1:36:30

pretty bold. And

1:36:32

I'm glad you're taking that step. But

1:36:34

yeah, the timing is great. And we hope

1:36:37

that it works out well for you.

1:36:41

All right. Time for some feedback. All

1:36:53

right. We've been holding this one for Captain Nick, and

1:36:55

so he is now here. And

1:36:58

you're going to see why, because this is something that's

1:37:00

near and dear to Captain Nick's heart.

1:37:03

This sent to us from Rick, and he

1:37:05

says, I'm sure Captain Nick followed this closely.

1:37:09

Elite pilots prepare for this is from AP

1:37:11

News, AP News dot

1:37:14

com. Elite

1:37:17

pilots prepare for camping out in the

1:37:19

sky as they compete in prestigious

1:37:22

ballooning race. It's been 15

1:37:24

years since the world's elite gas balloon pilots

1:37:27

have gathered in the United States for a race whose

1:37:29

roots stretch back more than a century. And

1:37:33

this is from Albuquerque,

1:37:35

New Mexico, flying high in the air. Pilots

1:37:37

Barbara Frick or Fricky and

1:37:40

Peter Cuneo will

1:37:42

have little room to stretch their legs in

1:37:44

a small basket. A solar

1:37:46

panel, Cheez-Its and a GPS

1:37:49

unit will also take up space

1:37:52

as the accomplished Albuquerque ballooning pilots

1:37:55

compete to travel the farthest distance in

1:37:58

one of the world's most prestigious. races.

1:38:01

They'll at least have a trap door on the

1:38:03

side of the four by five foot

1:38:06

wide basket so they can stretch out if

1:38:08

needed. Be careful. You've

1:38:11

got to start thinking, yes, I'm going to live in this basket

1:38:13

for three days and this is going to be home and

1:38:15

I'm just camping out in the sky, Freaky

1:38:17

said. The pair will be among

1:38:19

three American teams in a gas balloon race

1:38:22

with roots that stretch back more than a century.

1:38:24

What's more, it's been 15 years since the world's

1:38:28

elite ballooning pilots have gathered in

1:38:29

the United States. They're

1:38:32

competing for this year's Gordon

1:38:35

Bennett

1:38:36

Award, I guess, during

1:38:39

an international balloon fiesta that

1:38:42

draws hundreds of thousands of spectators

1:38:44

to the heart of New Mexico each fall. Going

1:38:47

back to the basket and

1:38:49

being, I don't know if

1:38:52

these two are a couple or they're

1:38:54

just, they have different names but that doesn't

1:38:56

necessarily mean they're not a couple

1:38:58

but so three

1:39:00

days. Can you hold it for three days or you're

1:39:02

going to have to do? That's what the trap

1:39:05

door is for. Okay

1:39:08

and I guess you just

1:39:11

hope the other person looks the other way and look away.

1:39:13

Yeah, okay. You can get somebody on

1:39:15

the ground. Yeah, well that's a

1:39:17

good point. You don't want any bombers.

1:39:20

Yeah, those big seagulls.

1:39:26

What do you

1:39:29

think? Is this something that you might be interested

1:39:31

in? Maybe, I mean, you know, you're still a young man, you

1:39:33

can get into the sport. I

1:39:36

was just thinking how much

1:39:39

fun that would be and it's

1:39:41

so much fun. I don't think my heart

1:39:44

could stand it, you know, so

1:39:46

I don't think you'll find me doing

1:39:48

that in a hurry. It sounds like eating

1:39:49

some herring, right Nick?

1:39:50

Yeah, exactly right. I wonder if they're both

1:39:53

going to go to sleep at the same time. I don't

1:39:57

think that'd be a good idea. Well,

1:39:59

I mean,

1:39:59

What are they going to do? It's not

1:40:02

like they can avoid anyone. They're

1:40:05

just floating around. They're

1:40:07

not piloting. Yeah. It's

1:40:10

just along for the ride. If they saw someone coming

1:40:12

and they decided to try and avoid them, it

1:40:14

would take them so long the person would have gone

1:40:16

passing on half way across the country before they

1:40:19

did nothing. But there you

1:40:21

go.

1:40:22

I think the biggest worry, they're

1:40:24

quite right, is that they could be mistaken

1:40:26

for Chinese spy balloons. Yeah,

1:40:30

they're going to get shot now. And they're probably going to get

1:40:32

shot down.

1:40:33

Well, there are some positive spin.

1:40:35

Thank you. Hoplifting

1:40:38

kind of guy. You know, I forgot

1:40:40

to ask you about this. Your background, your

1:40:42

video background is showing

1:40:44

a lot of fireworks exploding

1:40:47

in the back. That could be a possible risk if you're

1:40:49

a hot air balloon or a gas

1:40:52

balloon pilot. These are

1:40:55

elite gas balloons.

1:40:58

Is that e-light gas? So it's

1:41:00

a special kind of light gas? Yeah,

1:41:03

exactly.

1:41:03

But anyway, they're

1:41:05

a gas balloon race. So they

1:41:08

spend their time throwing out a handful

1:41:10

of dirt or something to maintain

1:41:12

their outfit. Oh, yes,

1:41:15

they look different. So they go to the bathroom. Different.

1:41:18

So long as they don't use hydrogen to... Which

1:41:22

actually is a really light

1:41:24

gas. I think they do, actually. Okay,

1:41:26

well, fine. I didn't know we were that many. I

1:41:29

may have misread that, but I did read

1:41:31

the article. You know something about

1:41:33

hydrogen? I thought they said something about hydrogen.

1:41:36

I'm thinking, well, I thought we figured

1:41:38

out about 100

1:41:40

years ago or whatever that that's not a

1:41:42

good idea. Oh, yeah, usually hydrogen. There

1:41:45

you go. The balloons have

1:41:47

an envelope filled with gas lighter than they

1:41:49

usually are. And it's actually not about gas

1:41:52

except for the fact that it's explosive, of course. Better

1:41:54

than helium because helium

1:41:57

is a heavier gas. I think.

1:44:00

Alaska 1299 going around. Alaska 1299

1:44:03

fly runway heading and maintain 3000. 3000 fly

1:44:07

runway heading Alaska 1299. Alaska 3978,

1:44:11

when able start your right turn, 340. When

1:44:15

able, right turn, 340 Alaska 1299.

1:44:19

Nope. Wrong

1:44:21

one.

1:44:24

So Alaska starts turning right, not

1:44:26

sky west.

1:44:29

And of course the Alaska halts turning right toward

1:44:31

the other one. Alaska 1299 fly runway

1:44:34

heading fly runway heading.

1:44:37

Alaska 1299 fly runway heading 270.

1:44:41

Alaska 1298 fly runway heading 270.

1:44:44

Hello, is this on?

1:44:46

Alaska 3978 fly runway heading 340 maintain 6000.

1:44:50

340, 6000 sky west, organize the meet. Alaska 1299,

1:44:53

traffic at your right.

1:44:56

Is northbound 1400. 1299 roger.

1:45:00

Alaska 1299, thanks. Fly runway heading maintain 3000.

1:45:04

maintain 3000 runway heading

1:45:06

Alaska 1299. Alaska 3978,

1:45:09

this is great fly on 340 heading. 11340 sky

1:45:11

west, 3978. At 3978 thanks. Thanks

1:45:15

for your help maintain 6000. Thank

1:45:18

you. Thanks, Al. Alaska 1299

1:45:21

contact departure on 118.1 and maintaining 4000.

1:45:25

maintain 4000 Alaska 1299, close the frequency. Alaska 1299, 118.1.

1:45:31

118.1 Alaska 1299.

1:45:33

At 3978, contact departure 124.35, thank you all.

1:45:38

1435, I just want to verify we

1:45:40

were getting a C8 heading.

1:45:44

We went around so I needed

1:45:44

to turn you. Oh,

1:45:47

you're wrong.

1:45:52

Okay,

1:45:53

there you have it another case

1:45:56

of miscommunications.

1:46:01

and a possible potential

1:46:03

conflict, like a midair collision.

1:46:06

Luckily, that was averted by

1:46:08

the controller. And

1:46:13

again, right at the very beginning, the Alaska,

1:46:15

for whatever reason, it doesn't state,

1:46:18

they initiated a go-around. It

1:46:21

wasn't a commanded go-around from the tower. And

1:46:24

then

1:46:24

I guess maybe they just assumed that

1:46:27

the next radio call would

1:46:29

be for them to do something. And

1:46:31

it was actually, and it was on our

1:46:34

live ATC.net recording.

1:46:37

It wasn't super clear that

1:46:40

it was for the SkyWest, although the numbers match

1:46:43

the SkyWest flight. The very first part

1:46:45

of it was a little, not

1:46:46

very clear. Yeah,

1:46:49

a bit sketchy. It sort of blotted

1:46:51

out a little. Yeah, and

1:46:53

I don't know if that's really what the case was

1:46:56

in the real world communications or

1:46:59

if it's just the person that recorded this communication

1:47:02

on their scanner. It just had

1:47:04

a little kind of a blip, but that

1:47:06

could definitely contribute to

1:47:10

communication failures

1:47:13

or breakdowns. And

1:47:16

I don't think that the controller

1:47:21

did a good hear back when he

1:47:24

was supposed to listen to the read back from

1:47:26

the Alaska air pilot, because the

1:47:28

Alaska air guy clearly

1:47:31

said, okay, fly,

1:47:33

heading whatever the heading

1:47:36

was, 290 or whatever initially. And

1:47:39

then it wasn't picked up immediately

1:47:41

by the tower controller that he

1:47:43

had answered for the wrong. I

1:47:46

mean, they were executing the directive

1:47:51

in error,

1:47:54

but they got it all sorted out. But

1:47:56

there was a good period of time there, it seems

1:47:58

to me.

1:47:59

There wasn't any, nobody was answering anything.

1:48:02

Just the controller, you know,

1:48:05

putting out instructions. And

1:48:09

obviously a lot of communication or

1:48:11

confusion happening there. Yeah,

1:48:15

I agree 100% Jeff. And

1:48:19

I doubt that radio call was

1:48:21

as bad as we heard it because

1:48:24

the guy that's probably got a monitor

1:48:27

is probably not right over the airfield

1:48:29

as these guys were. He's probably some distance

1:48:32

out and at ground level, which is the same

1:48:34

height as the towers

1:48:36

transmitters there at ground level. So

1:48:39

I think the aircraft probably heard it fine. And

1:48:41

anyway, the numbers are really quite different.

1:48:44

It's not like it was Skywest 39.99.

1:48:48

It was Skywest 39.78 against Alaska 12.99. It's

1:48:55

slightly disappointing that Alaska

1:48:57

didn't have the SA to look

1:48:59

at their TCAS because I think that

1:49:02

the Traffic Advisory and Collision

1:49:05

Avoidance System, because I think that

1:49:07

would have probably led

1:49:09

them to question the

1:49:11

term they were given because

1:49:13

it's obviously bringing them towards another

1:49:15

aircraft. And

1:49:18

a bit of a worry that the tower had to kill

1:49:20

them two or a couple of times

1:49:22

before, when he was trying to get

1:49:24

them to correct their heading and

1:49:27

they didn't respond. And I realize

1:49:29

they're in a go around, but,

1:49:32

you know, and things are a bit busy, particularly

1:49:34

when you're trying to clean up after

1:49:36

a go around. They're, you

1:49:39

know, you should really be able to keep

1:49:42

this out. How do

1:49:44

you mitigate this sort of thing? Well,

1:49:46

I don't

1:49:49

know. The RT

1:49:51

was probably fine. The guy

1:49:54

needs to listen for the read back, particularly

1:49:56

when you've got aircraft that are adjacent.

1:49:58

But we kind of... have already mitigated

1:50:01

this because we fly with

1:50:03

TCAS nowadays. Now as long

1:50:05

as they weren't so low that TCAS wouldn't

1:50:08

operate and I think

1:50:10

they were probably above that altitude.

1:50:13

TCAS gives you a lot of situational awareness

1:50:15

you didn't have before as does looking

1:50:18

out of the window which

1:50:20

is the old-fashioned way of making

1:50:23

TCAS work. So that

1:50:25

is always the full back and

1:50:29

you know the controller eventually

1:50:33

got a grip of it and got them all to

1:50:35

turn. I don't

1:50:37

know quite why he was so nice

1:50:39

to everyone. He was nice to the southwest

1:50:41

he could have been a bit sharper with Alaska because

1:50:44

after all they're the ones that caused the problem.

1:50:48

Okay we're good. That was good instruction that's

1:50:50

the guy that's on

1:50:56

the

1:50:58

go. Now let's hear from Skywest.

1:51:01

See what I mean at the very

1:51:03

beginning of

1:51:06

that again we're

1:51:08

not sure if that's just the live ATC or

1:51:10

if that's really kind of covered up

1:51:12