0:00

I'm Alex and I have way too many

0:02

dtrsh. No be

0:05

all right, No al

0:08

right, will be alright

0:10

forever? No

0:14

al lit al

0:17

right, will be all

0:19

right for ever. In

0:23

my memory there's two girls that

0:25

I had more than one DTR with, so

0:27

I want to break those ones down. One of them's Jade,

0:30

the other one Sammy Sanchez.

0:32

She knows who she is. I

0:34

met Sammy when I was I think

0:36

I was seventeen and she was sixteen, and

0:39

we immediately hit it off as friends and

0:42

literally we had I want to

0:44

say, maybe six d trs like we

0:46

were. We were so inconsistent

0:49

on our timing of wanting to be with each other.

0:51

I remember vividly in my head one

0:54

moment one of the d trs, which

0:56

was I think the last DTR we ever had, uh,

0:59

And it was the d t R where I

1:02

had finally like mustered up

1:04

the confidence and I was like, I made my mind

1:06

up, I'm gonna ask her to be

1:08

with me. So I grabbed flowers.

1:11

I go to her house. I stopped

1:13

by her mom's there. She's living with her mom still

1:16

at the time, we're we're we're not old enough to be

1:18

like having our own places at this point. So I

1:20

go from my mom's house to her mom's

1:22

house and uh and

1:25

I and I give the flowers and we're kind of

1:27

sitting there talking catching up, and

1:29

I was just like, this is your moment and this, by

1:31

the way, this ship is nerve racking, Like

1:34

this ship is not easy

1:36

to do. It's easy when you kind of like sway

1:39

into it. We'll talk about that later, like an easier

1:41

kind of version of a d t R versus what I

1:43

did, which was literally like in my mind, I

1:45

thought about a scene from the Notebook and I

1:48

was like, I'm gonna go for that. And

1:50

I was just like, look, we've had

1:52

our moments. We've been up, we've been down, I've

1:54

been ready, I've not been ready. I want you to know like I'm

1:56

ready for you bang

2:00

And she full blown was like, oh, you're so

2:02

sweet and we know where

2:04

this is going. But she full blown was

2:06

like I'm actually seeing somebody

2:08

and I just think you're better as a friend. And

2:11

I was just like, ah,

2:15

sick. I

2:17

really like, honestly, I don't remember what happened after that. I think

2:19

I might have had dinner with her family, like just being

2:21

like yes, like dude, I was like the Michael

2:24

Jordan's meaning with the mask and like sucking, sucking,

2:27

crying in my mind, but my face was

2:29

like, yeah, this is these talk on me to amazing,

2:32

Like I don't even remember driving home, like

2:34

I just remember deflated. Like it's

2:36

a it's a vulnerable thing. One.

2:38

It's a vulnerable thing to have a DTR

2:40

too. When you decide that you want to be Ryan

2:43

gossling in the rain like I wrote you

2:45

every day for a year and

2:47

that ship gets turned down, that's

2:49

on. That's like, that's a whole new level

2:51

of vulnerability. And like they

2:54

take your vulnerability, they shred it up into a cheese

2:56

make a pizza out of it, and then they don't even eat the pizza.

2:58

They throw the pizza in the trash. That's how

3:00

I felt. But obviously, like

3:02

I still have mad lover for Sammy.

3:05

We actually ended up doing a duet together, like

3:08

you know, two years ago. So but

3:10

it's all cool now. I mean I still have mad love for

3:12

her. I love her family. Everything's awesome,

3:14

super supportive on both ends, and

3:17

uh, it's actually worked out better looking at

3:19

where we both are in life now. It would

3:21

have never worked out to be in a relationship. But

3:24

that got me thinking, what is the best

3:26

way to have the defining the relationship

3:29

conversation or the dreaded d

3:31

t R. What's

3:34

of guys. It's Alex here and this is let's

3:36

get into it. It's my podcast where I

3:38

talked to my friends and I make new friends

3:40

and we kind of just talked about the real ship that we're

3:42

going through. UH. Today, I'm

3:44

very, very lucky to have one of my very good

3:47

friends, Karen Erlickman, back in my presence.

3:49

Karen, how you doing. I'm doing

3:51

great, Alex. How's it going. I'm doing

3:53

really really well. And with us today

3:55

is a new friend. She's coming all the

3:58

way out from the UK while we're all quarantined

4:00

in our homes. She is stylish, she is

4:02

self aware of Penelope Gwen is joining us

4:04

today. Penelope, how are you doing. Hi?

4:06

I'm doing good, happy to be here.

4:09

Thank you for coming as we are you

4:11

know, as as we're recording this.

4:14

Like I said, we're all quarantined in our homes. We're in the

4:16

middle of this coronavirus COVID nineteen

4:18

pandemic um that's kind of hitting all

4:20

around the world, and I've been talking to the guests

4:22

this week from where they are. But

4:25

Penelope, you're the first guest that is from

4:27

another country. What's it like over

4:29

in the UK? I mean, it's

4:31

it's pretty crazy. Um

4:33

Personally, I'm self employed and work from

4:35

home a lot, so it's not a massive

4:38

shift personally, um,

4:40

But there's a lot of panic. There's a lot of

4:42

empty shelves, there's

4:44

a lot of uncertainty, a lot of

4:46

businesses having to shut and

4:49

jobs are being lost. So there's

4:51

just quite a mass um

4:54

anxiety overall. But I feel

4:56

like it's global at this point. Yeah, it's pretty

4:59

it's pretty hectic, and hopefully if you're listening

5:01

to this, this podcast is released by

5:03

the time that this pandemic has passed.

5:06

Um. But if it hasn't passed,

5:08

then you can use this podcast for a little escape.

5:10

That's where we're kind of we're using this podcast

5:12

talking about it right now as an escape, and

5:15

we're gonna be talking about relationships

5:17

today. First off, Penelope and I are

5:19

going to be talking about how we define a relationship.

5:22

Then Karen and I are gonna be talking about romantic

5:24

desperation. Yikes. Also, alex

5:27

Iono syndrome is what I call that uh.

5:29

And then lastly, we are all going to be talking

5:31

about unrequited love.

5:35

But before we get into those topics, Karen,

5:37

you already know this, Penelope, I'm gonna introduce this

5:39

to you. I ask all of my guests every

5:41

single week, what are you doing

5:43

this week to try and improve

5:46

your life? Most of the time I have something

5:48

like really life changing, like oh man, I'm

5:50

trying to meditate, or I'm trying to

5:53

you know, eat healthier anything. Honestly,

5:55

this week, I'm trying to juggle. We're

5:57

getting bored here during the quarantine, and I've

5:59

been able to do the simple juggling moves, but

6:02

I'm trying to get this week. Specifically,

6:04

I'm trying to do a move where I, in mid

6:06

juggling throw one of the balls from

6:09

behind my back and landed

6:11

back in my hand. It's very, very difficult,

6:13

and I know it sounds silly, but we're in a pandemic,

6:16

so we got lots of time on our hands to be at

6:18

home. Karen, have you

6:20

got anything for me? Yes?

6:22

I have been taking two to three

6:25

walks a day, two to three

6:27

walks a day, even if

6:29

I just have a fifteen minute break. I

6:31

love that, but um,

6:33

you know, being in the house and doing

6:35

my sessions with clients

6:38

like this. Um, when I have a

6:40

break, I will walk around the block. If I have a

6:42

longer break, I'll go to the beach. Um

6:45

and making sure I get some fresh

6:47

air as often as possible. Amazing,

6:50

All right, Penelope, you've got something for me. Well,

6:53

this week, I am trying

6:55

to declutter. I

6:58

have like a lot of

7:00

clothes, I take a lot of pictures, a

7:03

lot of makeup, and it's

7:06

just got out of hand. And why not utilize

7:08

this time where I have to stay indoors to

7:11

do the thing that I'd least like to

7:13

do. Well, that's so that's this

7:15

is a perfect time to be doing things around the house

7:17

because we're not supposed to be leaving the house. So

7:20

so we're in a good spot. Well,

7:22

today we're talking about d t r S defining

7:24

the relationship and that is generally

7:26

a terrifying conversation to have, so

7:29

we're going to get into that right here. I'm

7:31

just really interested what what qualities

7:33

do you look for when you're you

7:36

know, looking for somebody that you want to be in a

7:38

relationship with. What's like the most important ship

7:40

to you? Um? I think well,

7:43

I'm single right now, and I'm not necessarily

7:46

looking for it, was

7:52

um but yeah, that would be very long distance.

7:54

UM But yeah, I think I've been

7:57

in some bad relationships, so I've

7:59

learned a lot in my short

8:01

period of time. UM So, I

8:03

think it would be more about retaining

8:05

the things that I enjoy about

8:08

being single while with someone,

8:10

so keeping hold of certain

8:13

parts of my independence. I enjoy my

8:15

time alone. I don't want to be told what to wear

8:18

or who to hang out with. Um So,

8:21

I think it's more about setting up boundaries

8:24

and just setting the tone early

8:27

on in a relationship, whether

8:29

it turns into a serious relationship, whether

8:31

it's just causual just saying this

8:33

is who I am or what I need and

8:36

this isn't going to change because I have a boyfriend

8:39

or girlfriend. I love that. I

8:41

love that. Um. For me, I actually

8:44

I am very very much so practiced

8:46

keeping my my personal relationships

8:49

life out of the kind

8:51

of public eye. It's the one thing that I really like to keep

8:53

close to me because my relationships are are

8:55

super important. Um So, I don't talk about

8:57

it much, but I'm actually very very happily in a relationship,

9:00

and for me, the biggest thing that

9:02

that I look for in trying

9:05

to find an ideal partner is open

9:08

communication, honesty,

9:11

lots of lots of trust because you

9:13

know, I travel around the world. I was filming a movie

9:15

in Thailand for two months and

9:17

and there's a lot of time that passed. I mean, right now, I'm

9:20

kind of where we're quarantine. I you know, I

9:22

don't know the next time that I'd be able to

9:24

be in the presence of anybody else. So it's super

9:26

important to me having that ability

9:28

to have trust and honesty and an open

9:30

line of communication, loads of transparency.

9:33

But then more than that, I'm such a family man that

9:35

you have to get along with my family. If you do not get along

9:37

with my family, it is like

9:39

I I that's the scariest thing. And

9:42

sometimes I actually it's one of the first

9:44

things I do when I start to have a crush

9:46

on a girl, is I go, Hey, why don't you come to the house, Because

9:48

if my family doesn't like you, I don't want to put in

9:50

the work that it takes for

9:52

my family to like. You know. It's like if

9:54

I if I fell in love and I take you home and like

9:57

you pissed my mom off as

9:59

much as I want to be like, no, I'm still

10:01

gonna be with you. Like that's a it's it's pretty.

10:04

It's a pretty big thing for me. So

10:06

when you bring a girl

10:08

to your parents, what do you do to make

10:11

her feel comfortable and hell, because

10:13

that's quite an intense environment.

10:15

Absolutely you've started to date in, do

10:18

you make her feel like super comfortable in

10:21

that situation. So I've done it many

10:23

different ways. I've tried to, you

10:25

know, tell it's gonna be great,

10:27

it's gonna be amazing, or I go like, just be yourself

10:29

whatever. What I've realized the

10:31

most successful thing is doing like the Jedi

10:33

mind trick, where I go, hey, so my sisters are

10:36

all gonna hate you, Like my mom's super

10:38

cold, my dad like is

10:40

really rude. He's kind of mean. And then they get

10:42

there and there, and so they get they get more scared,

10:45

and then when they get there they realize none of that stuff

10:47

true because my family is all like amazing human

10:49

beings and they and

10:51

and then you know, they're they're they're happily

10:53

surprised, and so that's really kind of

10:56

my thing. But my family is so cool and chill,

10:58

and I never say like, hey, I want you to meet my

11:00

parents. I just it's never like that, because that would

11:02

if you did that, like a week into liking somebody,

11:04

you'd sound like a psychopath. Um.

11:06

So what I do is I go, hey, we're playing games in my house

11:08

tonight, like you want to come through, Like my family is just chilling,

11:11

Like it's very much so like very casual.

11:13

It's not, hey, I want you to meet my parents. I've

11:16

also never really done that. I think

11:18

for me, all of the relationships that I've

11:20

been in have been have

11:23

started from a place where meeting

11:26

your parents are meeting your family isn't like a really

11:28

big ordeal. It's kind of just like, oh, yeah,

11:30

by the way, this is my mom's my dad. Because that's how I view

11:32

it to me. Um, but I'm glad.

11:34

I'm glad that we both um

11:37

where neither of us are like you have to

11:39

have a million dollars in the bank

11:41

and you have to have this. We we both seem

11:43

like very very uh um

11:46

simple people. We don't need much, we just need

11:49

good qualities. Now, on the contrary,

11:51

is there anything that is an absolute deal

11:54

breaker for you? Like you can have everything,

11:56

right, but if you have this one

11:58

thing or these two things. It's game

12:00

over. I

12:02

think it's just about, um,

12:07

the kind of the trust and control thing,

12:09

because I have been in controlling and

12:12

unhealthy relationships before. It's,

12:14

um, it's about can you handle me

12:17

modeling in underwear? Is

12:19

this gonna trigger you off? Are

12:21

you going to get jealous

12:24

when I'm off on trips? Are you you know,

12:27

what do you expect of me? And

12:29

are you expecting me to kind of change

12:31

myself to be a

12:33

kind of woman that you want? Um?

12:36

So it's kind of like take me as I am. And

12:38

if if they're wanting me to like fit

12:40

into some other kind of mold, it's like, sorry, that's

12:42

not me, Like, go find someone else. Yeah,

12:45

okay, okay for me. Honestly, the biggest

12:48

one is you have to be like

12:50

I don't know how to explain it, but if

12:53

you don't like trying things like

12:55

like things

12:57

that you've never done before, like in

12:59

terms of adventuring, in terms

13:02

of trying foods, in terms like if you're the

13:04

type of person to go like I don't want to do it. I

13:06

don't have any reason, I just don't want to do it.

13:08

To me, I'm just like, oh, that's so annoying,

13:10

Like I'm an adventurous person. I love trying

13:13

new things. I love experiencing new culture, new

13:16

foods, new activities,

13:18

exercises, all of this stuff. I love trying

13:20

new things. I love expanding my my

13:22

experience in life. And if

13:25

you aren't willing to do that to me, it's

13:27

not I mean, I guess it's not like a deal breaker,

13:29

but it's definitely like it is. It'll

13:31

it'll definitely tarnish. Yeah, it's super

13:33

off putting for me. Um.

13:35

But but now that we've we've kind of

13:37

defined what we look for. Um,

13:40

I feel like in today's world, there's

13:43

like three phases of

13:45

of dating. Obviously, Like I think at first,

13:47

it's like you're like talking to somebody, Like there's no commitment

13:50

at all, there's not even any romance. It's

13:52

just like you're just like talking, You're having a little flirting, you're

13:54

going back and forth. Uh. Then

13:56

there's like dating, and then there's

13:58

like you're in a committed relationship, you

14:00

know what I mean. Do you feel like there's anything else added

14:02

to that or do you feel like I'm kind of

14:04

in that space where I go there's three things. You're either talking,

14:07

you're dating, or you're like fully committed

14:09

to each other, you know what I mean. I mean,

14:12

I think it just depends on what those people want,

14:14

and there's a whole variety of

14:16

what a relationship can look like. You know,

14:19

people might want polyamory, they

14:21

might they might be like, Okay, I'd

14:23

like to be with you, but I have all of these things that

14:25

I want to do as well, like go

14:27

traveling or you know. It just depends on

14:31

where that person is in life and how

14:33

those things can be compatible.

14:36

So it's such a personal thing. I don't

14:39

think it can just it can be like

14:41

those three stages, but it just depends

14:43

who you are. Okay, Well, let's switch

14:45

committed then as the last one, to just a relationship,

14:48

because like you said, there are different types of relationships.

14:50

That's a that's an amazing point. So we'll go you're

14:52

talking, then you're dating, and

14:55

then you're in a relationship, whether that is a

14:57

polyamorous relationship, whether it's an

14:59

open and swinging whatever, whatever you do.

15:02

Um, that's that's how it is. Now.

15:05

I'll say that there we go, perfect two people

15:07

in a partnership, also known as what we're going to call the

15:09

relationship. I'll tell you something interesting about

15:11

me, in the way that I was raised for me,

15:13

dating and the relationship

15:16

in terms of how I act are

15:19

pretty much the same, like in terms of

15:22

like, I know a lot of people who are dating girls, but

15:24

they haven't like they haven't made

15:26

it like quote unquote official. Therefore

15:29

they still talk with other girls, they

15:31

still hook up with other girls. They still like

15:33

I know a lot of dudes that do that, and

15:36

I feel like that's a pretty common thing. Like you

15:38

can be talking to someone which is like you're just kind

15:40

of like flirting or whatever. You slid in the d M s,

15:42

you know, YadA YadA, YadA, and then

15:44

you have like dating, which I would consider is

15:46

like you've already hung out, maybe you've already hooked

15:48

up, and there is like there is not a

15:51

cut off afterwards. So it's kind of just

15:53

this like it's just continuing.

15:56

But for me, it's weird because and

15:58

I don't know what it is, if it's because you know, my parents

16:00

have been happily married for twenty nine years

16:02

or or what have you. But like I

16:05

feel in my mind as soon

16:07

as I like, if I hook

16:09

up with a girl, and then in my mind, I

16:11

go, I want more of

16:13

you, Like I just want more of you. Then

16:16

I just my brain like shuts everything

16:19

else off and I go into this like you

16:22

you know space, like I'm I I need to be there

16:25

with you, which was actually an issue that I've had in the past

16:27

where I go that way and I go, Okay, it's

16:29

just me and you. It's like here we go. Yeah,

16:32

that's always the risk. Well, yeah, I mean it definitely

16:34

happens. I have my story that I just told at

16:36

the beginning of this podcast shout out Sammy Sanchez

16:40

where they break your heart, where they tell

16:42

you that they don't feel the same way or they don't want to take

16:44

the relationship to that next level. And that's just

16:46

a possibility of having a DTR. But

16:49

there's a lot of places to like fill the gaps,

16:51

Like there's a lot of different types of

16:54

um of relationships. I've just never been

16:56

in them before. Have you been in any like weird

16:58

relationships? I mean,

17:00

I'm I'm very career

17:03

driven and that comes first,

17:05

so I don't really have much time to

17:07

be talking to loads of people, and

17:09

I don't really enjoy that initial like

17:12

oh what do you do? And like I find that

17:14

a bit like can I just know

17:16

whether I like you as a person. You make me laugh, like

17:19

I find it quite tedious. So

17:22

I'm not keen on like speaking to loads of people.

17:25

UM. But I've definitely had it where

17:27

I've been seeing someone for a period of time and

17:30

they're wanting to go further and I'm just not

17:32

And the more they kind of push for like a relationship,

17:35

I'm just like whoa and it just puts

17:37

me off. UM. So I've definitely had

17:39

that. Talk about that

17:41

more in the unrequited love segment

17:44

that we talk about at the end of the day. But before

17:47

we hit this break, the last thing I want to do,

17:49

how do you have what I call I

17:51

don't know if you call this a d t R where

17:54

you determine the relationship, like where

17:56

maybe you're not on the same page and it's getting

17:58

a little bit more clear to be one of you guys is

18:00

calling each other babe, or one of you guys is texting

18:02

every day and the others is not

18:05

responding as much, whatever

18:07

the situation is. I feel like there comes

18:09

a time in every romantic entanglement

18:12

that you have that you have to have a DTR

18:14

that you have to have the conversation to figure out

18:16

what's going on. Do you like those?

18:18

I kind of a low key in a weird way.

18:20

I kind of love having d trs because

18:23

they're just like, they're just I've never heard that term

18:25

before. Oh my gosh, wait, what do you

18:27

call it? That? What do you call it? I

18:29

don't know, I don't know. Okay,

18:33

but DTR I'll start I'll start using that. So

18:37

yeah, so have you. But have you ever had something like

18:39

that where you have you have to have a talk about, Hey,

18:41

what's what's going on? Yeah?

18:44

I mean I feel like it just kind of happens naturally,

18:47

and you just have to be super open. Like if

18:49

someone's going to be your boyfriend or girlfriend or

18:51

whatever, you have to be able

18:53

to talk to them about the hard stuff. So

18:56

if you're even too scared to broach that subject,

18:59

then you've outs from talking to do like

19:01

getting to know each other. Like I think

19:03

i'd want to feel like I can really trust them,

19:06

like they've got my back and I can approach any

19:08

subject without worrying that they're

19:10

gonna be put off or or

19:13

scared or any of that. Um

19:15

So I think just communicating freely

19:18

and feeling like you can do that with someone just

19:21

getting cards out on the table, because if they're

19:23

seeing other people or whatever, it's like, just tell

19:25

me. At that point I've had I'm

19:27

wanting to give more. Oh. Absolutely,

19:29

it's it's in the conversation is important. I've

19:32

actually had some dope ass

19:34

dtrs that have either ended up in

19:36

us both dating, ended up

19:38

in us, one of us liking the other more and

19:40

it just doesn't work out, and some of them

19:43

ending up in like laughing like Okay, I'm glad

19:45

that we're both on the same page. Maybe

19:47

even a person that you've had multiple dtrs

19:50

with that breaks your heart. I I

19:52

don't claim to be a DTR expert,

19:55

but I will say I'm pretty good

19:57

at them. I'm pretty good at making them light. I'm

19:59

pretty good at I can enjoyable

20:01

and fun and not because I feel like it can be.

20:04

I feel like it can be a super like daunting

20:07

conversation, like you're scared, like I don't

20:09

want to have this conversation, and so I think, like

20:11

you said, it's got to just be two people being cool,

20:14

like hey, I like you a lot, or hey,

20:16

I see where this is going and I'm not really ready

20:18

for it, or hey, I love hanging

20:21

out with you. But I travel for work and

20:23

these are the things that I look for and

20:25

this is and if you can't match that, then let's

20:28

just keep everything as it is. But I

20:30

want you to know where I am, you know what I mean?

20:32

Yeah, And I think you kind of need

20:35

dtrs as you go. Yeah. For

20:37

sure, change we grow, especially when

20:40

you're you know, in your twenties or whether you're

20:42

young. Um, you're just growing in

20:44

life because a lot of

20:46

relationships just end because you're

20:48

growing apart or you want different things. So

20:51

these kind of like determining the relationships.

20:54

This is a new term for me, DTR

20:59

It needs to kind of happen as you go, like naturally,

21:02

to make sure everyone's on the same page. Absolutely,

21:04

Okay, So here's my here's my question for you

21:06

for the listener at home who

21:08

might not be as confident as

21:10

I am and excited about having d trs.

21:13

Um, what's your advice for somebody who

21:16

knows they need to have a d A d t R with somebody,

21:18

but they're a little bit nervous, they're a little bit

21:21

shy, or maybe they're worried about the outcome.

21:24

I think just try and and playfully

21:26

get onto a kind of talk

21:29

about your feelings a little bit and just be like,

21:31

so, how you feeling about things? How are you feeling

21:34

about me? And just try and like ease

21:36

into it in like a fun way rather

21:39

than going right, what are we then? Because that might,

21:41

like, if you're a person like me, it might freak

21:43

me out if you do that. I

21:46

feel like when I go and get food, I feel like going

21:48

and getting food is a great place to have a DTR.

21:50

I've done dtrs where it's literally like you're

21:52

sitting in a car next to each other and you're

21:54

like, so, what what is this? And it gets a little

21:56

bit more awkward than if you're like, y'all, let's go

21:58

grab a burger, let's grab some fries, let's

22:01

go and get you know, pizza, whatever, and

22:03

you're like, just do anything. Like you said, it's cool.

22:05

It's casual. It's like, oh, like, man,

22:07

what's your favorite flavor of snapple? Okay?

22:10

Cool? Do you think we should be in love? I

22:12

don't know. Like I feel like it's

22:14

the more casual that you can make it and playful

22:17

that you can make it. Like you said, um, it

22:19

seems like is more likely

22:21

to be successful. Um,

22:23

But I feel like we covered this pretty well. I mean

22:26

obviously we we we talked about what we

22:28

like and what we don't like in relationships,

22:30

but more so we talked about the different types of relationships.

22:32

The fact that you opened my eyes to the

22:34

idea that even more than

22:37

the three categories, you know, talking

22:39

dating and then a relationship, there's also loads

22:41

of different types of relationships. There's the relationships

22:44

that are a little bit more open, relationships

22:46

that are more committed, less committed,

22:48

all over the board. None of them are wrong. Just make

22:50

sure whatever relationship you're in, uh,

22:53

you you determine that ship, Go and have a

22:55

fun conversation. Eats some pizza. Yeah,

22:57

what does it look like to you? What does you

22:59

know? And what what needs do

23:02

you have? Like A good thing to do

23:04

is to like write down what makes me happy,

23:06

what makes me feel loved, and

23:09

then say to the person, Hey,

23:11

this is this is what I need to fill up.

23:13

Like I like cuddles. I'm quite a touchy person.

23:16

Some people don't like hugs, they like gifts,

23:18

or they like they like words and

23:21

some people aren't words people. So as long as they

23:23

know, like love languages is a good

23:25

thing to google, have a little pinterest, before

23:29

we go to this break, what are your love languages? Um,

23:33

physical touch and words of affirmation

23:36

and call me beautiful? Okay, okay,

23:40

okay, I like that Mine

23:42

are mine are also physical touch, but also gift

23:44

giving, not receiving gifts like I

23:46

enjoy giving gifts to people, and so those

23:49

are my two. And you have been a gift to

23:51

me on this show. Um. So, Penelopegan,

23:54

We're going to be coming back to you at the end of the show to

23:57

talk about unrequited

23:59

love, which is kind of scary. We

24:01

will be right back, guys when we come back. I'm talking with Karen

24:03

r Like man. We are talking about desperation

24:06

romantically, and I'm very very scared

24:08

because I feel like I'm going to be exposed.

24:10

But you'll find out when we come back. Alright,

24:13

ch'all, we are back and we are talking about DTRS

24:16

and now it is my favorite and also

24:19

sometimes my most the

24:21

most nervous I get in this show.

24:23

I get to talk to my sweet sweet

24:25

friend Karen Erliman, Karen, how you doing good?

24:29

The reason I get nervous is because I feel

24:31

like our segments that are just you and I

24:34

turned into like therapy and I'm having

24:36

therapy sessions in front of everybody

24:39

that listens to this podcast. So excuse

24:42

me for having a little bit extra nerves, especially

24:44

today. I

24:46

know, right I'm about to go get my like my layout

24:49

bed that I can lay on, you know, like my little

24:51

uh. I'm trying to visualize what a

24:54

therapist chair looks like. Um. But

24:56

I'm also nervous because I kind

24:59

of am worried I might be

25:01

a a repeated

25:03

offender of this topic, which is romantic

25:06

desperation. Tell

25:09

me that, yeah,

25:12

gosh, okay, So I feel like,

25:14

um, I feel like I

25:16

love being in relationships like i've I

25:18

love being relationships. I love having somebody

25:21

that can equally depend

25:23

on me I depend on them, and at the same time,

25:25

there's moments where we're both like super independent

25:28

and doing our own thing and happy and excited

25:30

for each other. When I do not have

25:32

that, I chase it. I definitely

25:34

think that we can all agree that I can get

25:36

into situations where I like somebody and

25:39

it's not reciprocated. On top

25:41

of wanting to be in a relationship, I also

25:43

have been told by all of my friends, every

25:45

single one of them, by my mom, by my dad, by

25:47

my sisters, my grandparents, ship,

25:50

my dogs. Everybody tells me, I fall

25:52

so fast and so hard.

25:55

Um, so that's kind of why I feel like I

25:57

am. I am a repeated offender of

25:59

roman entic desperation. You have

26:01

some do you have any like facts about that

26:03

that makes me feel better? Well,

26:06

it's not just you. There is actually

26:09

something physiological that happens in

26:11

your brain. There's this

26:14

hormone. If this is a biochemical

26:16

thing where your oxytocin kicks

26:19

in, and it's like you are stoned

26:22

right, You're not you are not operating

26:24

in your right mind. That oxytocin kicks

26:26

in and it is like when you said chases

26:29

it. It's like, you know, drugs

26:31

seeking behavior. You have to have it

26:33

your jones and for it, you can't live without

26:35

it. Yeah. No, I mean I've done some crazy I've

26:37

done some crazy ship like I've literally, I literally

26:39

have sent a bouquet

26:42

of roses from a cruise

26:44

ship on the other side of the world

26:46

to a girl. I'm like, I've

26:49

done some crazy ship Like I am,

26:51

I get a little I get a little too crazy. I get a little

26:53

too crazy. We're on Skype right now, by the way, because we're

26:55

all recording quarantine from home. Penelope Guen

26:57

is still here. She's given me the craziest

27:00

faces. She thinks I'm an absolute

27:02

psychopath. So Karen, thank

27:04

you for making me feel Thank

27:06

you for making me feel a little bit less weird, Penelope,

27:09

thank you for making me Thanks for returning that

27:11

weird feelings. All right, So I want to talk about

27:13

how being romantically desperate can

27:15

actually affect us in our potential relationships

27:18

and also outside of those relationships. Right,

27:21

So if you think about it like

27:23

a continuum, right, like off

27:25

the deep End is like obsessed,

27:28

right like Off the Deep End is stalkers. We're

27:30

not talking about that. No, no, no no, no, no no, I mean

27:33

that's the topic for another just kidding, I

27:35

just kid it. Yes, we'll talk about that another time. But

27:38

um, it's a continuum

27:41

like of nervous excitement

27:44

that can go all the way I'm making kind of like

27:46

an arc with my hand, all the way to like

27:49

panic, right like what if

27:51

I feel this way and what if this person doesn't

27:53

feel this way? You know, I think this is

27:55

the one, or I think this is something special.

27:57

I gotta have it. I'm feeling it. But the

28:00

desperation is like fuck, what if

28:02

it's just me? What if what if she doesn't feel

28:04

that way? Does that kind of touch

28:06

on one aspect of it? Like the not knowing?

28:09

I mean, I feel like it really has an effect on your

28:11

self love, Like you're literally doing a trust fall with

28:13

yourself, but you can't catch

28:16

yourself, so nobody's there to catch you. I've

28:18

done that before, but it was there was

28:20

somebody there. They just that they didn't they

28:22

didn't catch me. That was that was trust falling

28:24

with friends that you trust too much. But

28:27

but back back on topic, um,

28:30

how do you fight? I guess let's

28:32

let's let's start turning the corner. Let's start talking

28:34

about how do we how do we deal

28:36

with this more than assessing

28:38

it? How do I deal with romantic

28:41

desperation? I feel like I'm before

28:44

I want to bring an answer to you, and I want you to

28:46

dissect it. I feel like a lot of

28:48

it has to do with self love, because

28:50

I feel like there's there's some kind of correlation

28:52

between the love that you give yourself

28:55

that makes you feel like you are enough that

28:57

you don't need anybody else. Uh,

28:59

and if if you don't have that, I

29:02

feel like it might actually propel that romantic

29:04

desperation. So

29:07

you made mention earlier about like

29:10

what's the science behind this, and we

29:12

I mentioned the oxytocin oxytocin

29:14

And another piece of this is

29:17

um what we would call your attachment

29:19

patterns, right, So this is kind of related

29:21

to what you were saying about self love. And

29:24

anybody who wants to know about attachment styles,

29:26

you could just google it and there is like

29:29

a ton of information out there, but I

29:31

want to just give you a little snapshot. So that feeling

29:33

of self love, that sense

29:36

of calm and ground nous

29:38

and of knowing like I am fucking

29:40

awesome and this person would be privileged

29:42

to be with me, is a sense of

29:45

secure attachment, of knowing who you

29:47

are and feeling that you are worthy of

29:49

love. Those are like a small percentage

29:51

of the population that have that sense of

29:53

secure attachment. And then there's

29:56

what we call anxious attachment, which is

29:58

you feel some self love some of the time,

30:01

but you're really anxious what if the other person doesn't

30:03

feel the same way? And how do I know? And how many

30:05

times have they, you know, deemed me

30:07

or how many times they didn't respond to my text

30:09

best enough, or like where the anxiety

30:11

is there, and you can ask yourself, like

30:14

kind of to your point about desperation, like

30:16

how many times a day or an hour

30:19

are you checking to see if that person responded,

30:21

or you're looking you're stalking them on i G. Or

30:24

you're like looking to see what they're doing, or you're like

30:26

it's consuming you when you should

30:28

be like at work or floss in your

30:30

teeth, they're taking out the trash or like doing

30:33

something else, and you're obsessing about

30:35

is that other person going to respond to me in the

30:37

way I need them to? And the last

30:40

one and then I'm going to pause and see what you think about. This

30:42

is um avoidant attachment,

30:45

which is basically people who can

30:48

seem like really calm, cool and

30:50

collected, and there's something about their calmness

30:52

that can be really appealing and maybe

30:55

even sexy, but actually

30:57

they're kind of closed off underneath that,

30:59

and so you try to get in there and

31:01

you can't get through that wall, and

31:04

that starts that that gives more makes

31:06

you more of a reason to be

31:08

more desperate, is what you're saying. Well,

31:11

if you are trying to hook up

31:13

with somebody who is avoided in their

31:15

attachment, it might make you more desperate,

31:18

but there's not a thing you can

31:20

do to break that wall.

31:23

Amazing, that wall is what helps

31:25

to them to survive emotionally, and they

31:27

may not even be aware of it. They're just doing

31:29

them. They don't they have no idea,

31:32

And that's the mess up part. And we'll get into that more again

31:35

on this last segment, which I'm actually getting more and more

31:37

excited and also more and more nervous to talk about,

31:39

which is unrequited love. But before

31:41

we get there, I got another question

31:43

for you. I feel like we've been talking

31:46

a lot about romantic desperation when

31:48

you are not in a relationship, when you're trying

31:50

to get in a relationship. Do

31:52

you feel like there is a sense of romantic desperation

31:55

that can happen while you're in a relationship.

31:58

Oh, definitely. Like let's

32:00

just say you're in a relationship and your significant

32:03

other comes home and says, I

32:05

made a new friend at work today,

32:08

and it's somewhere inside yourself you think,

32:10

oh, ship, right,

32:13

Like what if that person is smarter than me, sexier

32:15

than me, better looking than me, makes more money

32:17

than me. Like all they've done is said, hey,

32:19

honey, I made a new friend. Even though you're

32:22

in that secure relationship, it still

32:24

might kick up your anxiety. It might

32:26

turn into desperation if the person says,

32:29

oh, yeah, we started having lunch together every

32:31

day, or you know, like and it may be nothing

32:34

right, it may be purely platonic. But

32:37

so when that part of the brain

32:39

right, like the way the place in our brain

32:41

where our fear gets activated, when

32:44

that switch turns on, we have to learn

32:46

how to turn it off, because when

32:48

you're on the receiving end, the person who's on

32:50

the receiving end of your desperation

32:52

is trying to figure out what the hell

32:54

is going on here? What happened to my person?

32:58

Okay, okay, well, because

33:00

I'm clearly this has nothing to do

33:02

this whole topic I do not suffer from

33:05

or deal with regularly at all,

33:07

but just for maybe the listener at home, and definitely

33:10

not me in any way, shape or form.

33:13

How do we fix this? How do we how do we

33:15

make what are the first steps to stop

33:17

to not checking my phote? What are the first steps to

33:19

not checking my phone all the time and

33:21

seeing or checking locations or whatever.

33:23

I'm not that crazy right now, I

33:26

have been in my past. But what are the

33:28

first steps to helping,

33:30

aiding, or even fixing your

33:33

romantic desperation. First

33:35

step is think

33:38

to yourself and then write down like

33:40

your ideal self, like I want I

33:42

want to be the person who feels secure, right,

33:45

I would say it in the positive, like don't say

33:47

I don't want to be the person who's texting like seventeen

33:50

times an hour, Like I want to be the person

33:52

who is calm and

33:54

relax and at ease. And

33:57

I want to express it this way, like I'm

33:59

gonna text and then I'm gonna I'm gonna wait

34:01

fifteen minutes before I respond, or like

34:03

you make whatever those the rules

34:05

for yourself, and then you have a friend

34:08

Step two who's going to hold you

34:10

accountable. That person you can talk to.

34:12

It's like calling your a a sponsor. That

34:14

person you can text at three

34:17

o'clock in the morning and say tell me why I shouldn't

34:19

go over to her house. Just tell me right now.

34:21

I need you to talk me off this ledge. So

34:23

somebody who loves you, who trust you, and you've

34:26

already given them permission to put

34:28

you on a very short leash, all

34:30

right, So I need to I need to file on them.

34:32

I need to follow these people because all my

34:34

friends are like dog do it? Think about

34:36

the notebook? What would they do in the notebook? And

34:38

I'm like, you know what, You're right, it's raining

34:40

outside. I'm gonna go build a house. Okay.

34:43

So let's say you did both of those things and

34:45

you're still a little bit desperate. Is it just time to call

34:48

Karen and have your own private session and figure

34:50

out what's calling. May need to go to

34:52

therapy, may need to go

34:54

to codependence anonymous. You may need

34:56

to read the five love languages that

34:59

Penelope talked to about in the earlier episode.

35:02

You don't have to figure this all out by

35:04

yourself. Go talk to somebody who can help

35:06

you to get clear about what's healthy for you. And

35:08

you know what I love is is uh. This segment

35:11

before, when we were talking with Penelope, she said

35:13

her biggest thing in terms of UH

35:15

determining the relationship is starting off

35:17

with what you need to be the best you.

35:20

I mean, at the end of the day, it all comes back to self

35:22

love, which is why I'm excited to get to our

35:24

next topic, which is unrequited

35:27

love. Another thing I feel like this

35:29

episode is just attacking Alex's weaknesses

35:32

because I've got more than enough expertise

35:34

with this. Karen, thank you so much for talking with me

35:36

about my romantic

35:39

desperation. When we come back,

35:42

Uh, we'll be talking about unrequited

35:44

love. I'm so nervous and excited.

35:46

We'll be right back. All

35:49

right, we are back. This

35:51

is let's get into it. I'm Alex Iono and

35:53

I'm so lucky to have with me on the show today,

35:55

Karen Erlickmann and Penelope Gwen,

35:58

Ladies, how you feeling getting good?

36:00

Yeah? All right? Well, I hope

36:02

my my romance and relationship

36:05

issues haven't scared you guys off, because we got one more

36:07

topic to talk about, and

36:09

we've already talked about defining the relationship,

36:11

and now we are here the

36:13

topic I hate, but I love, but

36:16

I hate unrequited

36:18

love? Am I the only one on this podcast that's

36:20

experienced unrequited love? All

36:24

right? I it sounds

36:26

good, Thanks guys. You know

36:29

what, We're just gonna end the podcast here, all

36:32

right, Well, then it's gonna be a little bit more. It's

36:36

going to be a little bit more therapy for Alex

36:38

then, so let me explain. We'll

36:40

break it down we'll break down my actual you

36:42

know, my actual situations. I've been in moment

36:45

I've I've had moments where I really really

36:47

let's not call it unrequited love,

36:49

but maybe just unrequited feelings.

36:52

Um, because there's been moments where

36:54

I go, man, I really want to be in a relationship

36:56

with you, and I've had

36:59

the person on the other side say no. And

37:01

I've had moments where I've I've been in a

37:03

relationship with a girl and

37:06

and I'm and I'm doing everything, I'm being

37:08

so desperate, uh

37:10

so awkward, but I am

37:12

being so desperate and doing everything

37:15

I can to make this person like me, and

37:18

they don't, and it sucks and awkward,

37:21

and you know that's where it ends up. And

37:24

so underquited love apparently

37:26

is only a personal topic for more.

37:29

But I want to I still even though you guys haven't felt

37:31

it. Uh, Karen, you're never

37:33

going to feel it because Janna is the greatest human

37:35

on earth. But Penelope, maybe

37:38

you'll one day love somebody who doesn't love you

37:40

back. Probably not. You're successful

37:42

and independent and literally everything that a guy

37:45

looks for. So uh while,

37:47

while both of it are very unlikely, let's

37:49

still get into these topics for the listener at

37:52

home. Karen, what's the science that actually

37:54

is behind that feeling of unrequited

37:56

love? Think for a second about

37:59

when you for realize you have

38:01

a crush on somebody, right when I saw them? Kind

38:03

of start with that feeling with that where you're

38:05

like something happens inside you right

38:07

like your body even sometimes

38:10

feels it before your brain registers it,

38:12

where you're just like kind of giddey him,

38:14

yeah, giddy. So say more about

38:16

that giddy feeling, Penelope. You

38:18

just get bit excited, like when they message

38:20

you, you just get a little smile with

38:23

it, like it's such a good feeling. It's

38:26

that you say that whatever

38:29

you called it, Karen, what is it called oxy I don't know.

38:33

Oxytocin um,

38:36

that's that, whatever that is. If they made

38:38

a version of that that came in a pill, I

38:40

would take it. Uh that

38:43

crack okay? All right? Never mind

38:45

not doing drags. Kids do not do drugs.

38:47

Don't do drugs, all right, back back

38:49

on topic. I'm sorry it took us off, but that

38:51

feeling, it shows you how like

38:54

you think about when you have a

38:56

feeling, the oxytocin

38:58

kicks in and if you imagine that it's

39:00

light crack. I'm not, you know, I'm

39:02

being a little hyperbolic here, but it

39:05

makes you do crazy ship. Yeah,

39:09

but there's also the feeling of being

39:12

able to enjoy

39:14

what a crush feels like, to enjoy

39:17

that OUI gooey tangly thrill,

39:19

like before you cross over

39:21

into Craig Craig, that

39:24

you just get to enjoy that crush

39:27

feeling first when

39:29

you cross over. Then part of what happens

39:31

is like, well, how do I know if they

39:33

feel the same way about me as I feel about them?

39:36

And then you kind of start spinning from there,

39:38

and then if the person doesn't feel that

39:40

way, it's rejection, right.

39:43

Rejection is painful, absolutely,

39:46

and you guys have neither of you have felt that, So that's

39:48

fine. I've

39:52

definitely had it where I'm investing

39:54

a certain amount of time and energy and someone and

39:56

then not giving that back. But I

39:58

think now I have the wherewithal

40:00

to be like, okay, I'm going to pull back from that now.

40:04

The one like why are you speaking to me? And it's like,

40:06

oh my god, you had your chance, let's

40:09

break I want to break that down though, because

40:11

you said that you did have a moment where you were investing

40:13

and you felt like it wasn't coming back. That is,

40:15

I would say a version of unrequited

40:18

insert line here. How did that? How did that make

40:20

you feel? Because I feel like I'm on an

40:22

island of loneliness right now. I am literally

40:25

I'm Andy Samberg, and I'm

40:27

lonely island all the way

40:29

on my own. So so let me get some let

40:31

me get some some relatability

40:34

here with you. What did that? What did that make you

40:36

feel? Like? It doesn't feel good for your confidence?

40:38

So you know, at first you are all excited,

40:40

you get those kind of butterflies. Then you

40:42

know you might spend a bit of time with them

40:45

and be like, Okay, I kind of like this,

40:47

And I think I'm thinking

40:49

of like a specific example that was quite recently

40:51

because I don't date very much because I've just

40:54

don't have time really um,

40:56

But then I was kind of feeling

40:58

a little drop in a tent hin from

41:00

this person and then going okay,

41:03

and then they're like, oh, I'm just busy, and it's like are

41:05

you busy or are you disinterested? So I

41:08

kind of had that that time where

41:10

it's like, Okay, I don't want to be like crazy,

41:12

like talk to me all the time. I'm not bothered

41:14

about that, but there wasn't that kind

41:17

of by the way, I won't be able to speak

41:19

to you this much week, this week, or any

41:21

of that. So I was like, Okay, I think they're just

41:23

kind of dwindling an interest. So

41:25

at that point, I go, is this person

41:27

worth this? Is this is

41:30

this worth my you

41:32

know, my anxiety or even my tears

41:34

at times, And the

41:36

answer was no. So I was like, Okay, bye, and

41:39

that was the right choice for me. You have such a such

41:42

a more mature version of your

41:44

answer to that, because I was going to say,

41:46

and Karen, here's my answer for you, is like, I feel

41:48

like a lot of the time when something's unrequited,

41:51

a feeling of positivity is unrequited

41:53

back to you, m

41:56

it damages from me. Any time I've liked

41:58

a girl and they don't like me back, or

42:00

have been in a relationship that the the

42:03

demise was that there was not

42:05

an equal level of feelings towards each

42:07

other. It really makes me look

42:09

at myself and go, there must be something wrong with

42:11

you because they don't like you

42:14

as much as you like them. You're not doing something

42:16

right, You're doing something wrong, and it really

42:18

does take a hit on my confidence. You feel like that's

42:20

a pretty common denominator for unrequited

42:23

love because

42:25

when you if this person doesn't

42:28

return those feelings, it's

42:30

a natural response, even for a

42:32

second, to think what's wrong

42:35

with me? Right? And especially if

42:37

you then see them hook up with somebody else and

42:39

you think you picked that person

42:41

instead of me, So it's natural

42:44

that your self confidence will take a little bit

42:46

of a hit. Mm hmm. I

42:48

feel like I feel like one of the main things that I do also

42:51

is I go back and I go, oh, my gosh,

42:53

you're so stupid for for

42:56

buying those flowers, or changing

42:58

flights or but or or taking

43:01

time canceling hangouts with your friends

43:03

to go and see this girl. You're so dumb, And it makes

43:05

me like resent and regret

43:08

doing a lot of things. Do you think that

43:10

that that's necessarily like

43:14

healthy? I guess like because obviously

43:16

I try and what I try and do is balance

43:19

wearing my heart on my sleeve and not

43:21

caring about the negative effects

43:24

of doing that because I know that I'm always being my

43:26

truest self and also being

43:28

smart listening to my brain and being like, dude, don't

43:31

buy roses for a girl that

43:33

is not texting you back, like it's like

43:35

if she's especially right now, we're in a pandemic.

43:38

And by the way, guys have been listening to this. If they're

43:41

not responding to you right now, they don't

43:43

like you. There's there's no you have

43:45

no reason to not be texting somebody

43:47

back right now. And if and if they do, buy

43:49

them toilet paper, because that's super romantic

43:52

right now, very romantic.

43:54

That's some big love right there. If you give if you're giving

43:56

toilet paper rolls out right now, you love

43:59

them, you love Pete. Yeah,

44:01

But Karen, in terms of that feeling,

44:03

how do you balance that because I know that the a

44:05

lot for me, the transition can be, you

44:09

know, recognizing

44:11

unrequited love, being angry

44:13

that you did all of the things that you did, like

44:15

how could you not love me or like me as

44:17

much? After I've done all of this, and

44:20

then eventually it becomes that subtle there's

44:22

just something wrong with you. There's just something that's not right,

44:24

you know what I mean. So a

44:26

couple of things. One is I'm thinking about

44:28

the difference between wooing somebody

44:31

and trying to persuade

44:34

somebody or sell yourself to somebody.

44:36

Damn you know, like looing

44:39

to be wood is awesome,

44:42

right, even if you're not even that into the person. It's

44:44

still whoever got those roses still

44:46

might have appreciated getting them, even if they

44:48

didn't return the love. But

44:51

it's when you feel like you have to prove yourself

44:54

to somebody, It's like when that desperation

44:56

kicks in, Right, it's then, but you

44:58

don't want to have to prove yourself to anybody, even

45:00

if even if the love is

45:03

returned. It's not about proving yourself.

45:05

It's about what Penelope said earlier

45:08

about boundaries, Right, It's

45:10

like you want to be able to say I did the

45:12

best I could. You're going to forgive yourself

45:14

from making an ass of yourself and then

45:16

move on. All right, Karen, I feel like we need

45:19

to turn the page on this. What do we do

45:21

if this happens to us, or happened

45:23

to us with Sammy Sanchez who ripped my heart

45:25

out of my bare chest? What do we do with our

45:27

feelings when somebody doesn't

45:29

feel the same way as we do about

45:32

each other? So,

45:34

as you know, I always say friends

45:37

are essential with all of these matters

45:39

of the heart. So having a friend

45:41

or a family member who can remind you

45:43

that you're lovable, that you're

45:46

worthy, that even if you're

45:48

imperfect, that you are still deserving

45:51

of love and affection, that there

45:53

is nothing wrong with you. You have done nothing

45:55

wrong. Let's pause really quick. I want to pause

45:57

really really quick because I know that there's a lot of

45:59

listen is out there that might go I don't even have friends

46:01

that do that. So Karen, Penelope,

46:04

myself, we are going to be your friends right now, and

46:06

we're gonna let you know. We're gonna let you know

46:09

you are absolutely worth

46:11

the love that you look for. You

46:14

are. You have all of

46:16

the assets to be in a relationship

46:19

that's healthy and happy. There is literally

46:21

nothing wrong with you that

46:23

makes you undeserving

46:26

of the love that

46:28

you wish to have. And

46:31

if anybody tells you otherwise, then

46:33

they clearly do not understand

46:35

what it takes to be in a in a

46:37

positive, happy, loving, successful

46:40

relationship. I also

46:42

have some things that you can do independently,

46:45

because you can't always rely on your friends

46:47

from catching you out. You can't. You have to rely

46:49

on yourself um, so

46:51

I would say, work out what you

46:53

want from a partner, like the little things

46:56

that you'd want them to do for you, and

46:58

the type of person that they be for you, and how they speak

47:00

to you, and then do it yourself, because

47:03

the more self sufficient you are, the less you'll rely on

47:05

other people's love to fulfill you. So,

47:08

you know, take yourself out on dates by yourself,

47:10

cute stuff, say beautiful, tell

47:13

yourself you're beautiful when you're in the mirror, you know,

47:15

run yourself a bubble ba, make yourself some really

47:17

nice food, like you know, go

47:19

out on a trip somewhere and provide

47:21

yourself with that, because then you'll

47:23

have actual higher standards from that other

47:25

person because they have to top what you've already

47:28

got. When you're coming from a place of

47:30

like lack your you know, your

47:32

cup is empty. What what are you going to give back

47:34

to them as well? And you know, then

47:37

the bar will be a lot lower. My bar is quite

47:39

high now. And that's what being single.

47:41

And if you need, if you need some more advice

47:43

on how to fill up that cup

47:46

of self love, fill up that cup of confidence.

47:49

There's another episode of this podcast where

47:51

we specifically dive into self love,

47:53

UM practices, mindsets,

47:57

exercises that you can do to help build

47:59

that up. UM. So outside of the self

48:01

love, Karen, let's let's keep

48:03

pushing on this road of how do we manage

48:06

the feelings of unrequited love? Well,

48:09

I want to piggyback on what Penelope just said,

48:11

which is like, that should be part

48:13

of our regular routine

48:16

of everyday life right where

48:18

you you you wake up, you brush your

48:20

teeth, you exercise, you do

48:23

whatever, and you greet yourself

48:25

with that self love. You don't just wait

48:27

until you're dealing with unrequited love or

48:29

you're in a funk, or you're depressed or whatever it

48:31

is. It should be like breathing

48:34

for all of us. M it

48:37

should be like breathing. Damn.

48:39

UM. Last thing I

48:41

want to talk about is closure, and I think

48:43

it's it's it's it's another another

48:46

piece that comes

48:48

along with how we manage the feelings

48:51

that come along with somebody not feeling the same way about

48:53

you. UM.

48:56

A lot of the times when somebody says, hey, I

48:58

just don't feel the same there's not really any conversations

49:00

that happened past that. You never really get that call

49:03

that's like, hey, I just want to apologize for

49:05

having unrequited love. I just was going through

49:07

things. I didn't recognize my own value. I didn't

49:09

recognize your value. That very very rarely

49:12

happens. So, Karen and Penelope,

49:14

Um, what are your tactics

49:17

on gaining closure

49:19

or being okay with the lack of closure?

49:22

I feel like oftentimes people use

49:26

I need closure as an excuse to like

49:28

to down

49:30

well, I mean sometimes but just

49:32

to get that attention. And sometimes it's

49:35

like you just sometimes it's

49:37

not going to be that finished and you're

49:39

not going to be satisfied with the ending, but

49:41

you just you just can't be around that person because it's

49:43

not healthy for you. So I think sometimes

49:47

you're not going to get the satisfactory

49:49

closure that you feel

49:51

like you should, like like you get in the movies

49:53

and stuff. UM, I don't know what what

49:55

do you think about this? Karen?

50:00

What's that um number

50:02

one song from the animated movie

50:05

that All the Girls Love? Let

50:09

It Go? I was thinking, I was thinking

50:11

the dual Leaper record. I was thinking one pick

50:14

up you know it's but

50:17

yeah, no, much better and more family appropriate.

50:20

Exactly you met my nieces.

50:24

Yes, So, especially

50:29

in this era when Ghosting

50:31

is a thing. You

50:33

cannot hang on expecting

50:36

the other person to give you the closure

50:38

that you need. We have to figure

50:40

out how to give ourselves that closure. Let

50:42

that ship go and move on. God

50:45

damn, Karen is hitting you with some fire

50:47

right now. Guys, we have covered

50:50

so much today Vanelope and Karen.

50:52

We talked about what to look for in relationship,

50:54

what you look for, we've defined, defining

50:57

the relationship, and a lot more aside

50:59

of that. Karen, Penelope, thank you

51:01

so much for coming on the show today. I had

51:03

a blast arguing with you. Thank

51:06

you for having We're gonna take turns. Karen,

51:08

You're on the show all the time. But Penelope,

51:10

what are your plugs? Tell us what's

51:12

going on, let us let us know where we

51:15

can follow you and get more makeup tips,

51:17

because those lips are popping and we're

51:19

on Skype right now and that ship is looking

51:21

three D to me. So give us give

51:23

us some love. Okay. So

51:25

I'm paneled on Instagram. That's p

51:28

E n n O l D. My

51:31

name is Penelope Gwen and I'm

51:33

a makeup artist, model, content

51:35

creator, and I talk a lot about

51:38

wellness and self love and

51:40

the techniques I used to look

51:43

after myself and curb my

51:45

anxiety and just have a

51:47

good, happy life. So if

51:49

you want to come and have some positivity and

51:51

get some makeup tips, then have a

51:54

look at my Instagram. And I'm trying to do TikTok

51:56

same handle, We're all are we all

51:58

trying to do TikTok? A trying?

52:00

All right? Karen your turn, shameless plug go all

52:03

right. You can follow me on Instagram

52:06

or Twitter at k e replenish,

52:10

or you can go to my website Karen Arltman

52:12

dot com. Amazing guys,

52:14

you know you can always catch me at alex I. Oh no,

52:16

this is let's get into it. We will

52:19

see you guys next week when we're talking about some

52:21

more real live ship and

52:23

hopefully hopefully I don't get too exposed.

52:25

Uh, we'll see you guys next time. Stay safe

52:28

out there and uh and we'll talk to you soon. Peace.

52:36

We really want you to get the help you need, so if

52:38

you need help, please seek independent advice

52:41

from a competent healthcare or mental health professional.

52:44

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

52:46

those of the podcast author or individuals participating

52:48

in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I

52:50

heart Media or its employees. This podcast

52:52

should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,

52:55

counseling, or therapy. Listening to the podcast

52:57

does not established doctor patient relationship with

52:59

hosts or se ALEXIONO, Let's Get into

53:01

It, or I Heartmedia. No guarantee is

53:03

given regarding the accuracy of any statements

53:05

or opinions made on this podcast. Wol

53:08

if that's a doozy