0:00

My name is Alex, and I think you probably

0:03

shouldn't have the kids around for this episode.

0:06

No, no, all

0:10

right, we'll be all right

0:12

forever. No,

0:16

alright,

0:26

alright, y'all. So I said, I don't think the kids

0:28

should be around for this episode because today we

0:30

are talking about the big p I

0:33

guess is what we're gonna call it. Um, we're

0:35

gonna be talking about porn today, and mom

0:37

and dad, if you're listening to this, maybe

0:39

you shouldn't. But also, don't be scared. I'm not. We're

0:42

not like talking details. We're just gonna

0:44

be talking about how it's really

0:46

kind of everywhere. Um, I think

0:48

it's kind of a taboo situation. And you know,

0:50

on this show we talk about absolutely

0:52

everything. Right now, it seems like porn

0:54

is pretty much unavoidable. You know, it's on your computer,

0:57

it's on your smartphone. It's on the cards

0:59

that those guys slap in Las Vegas and

1:01

try and hand out to you on the street. It's on

1:03

Instagram, it's literally everywhere. Whereas

1:06

back in the sixties, when the Supreme Court was having a

1:08

hard time regulating it, Justice Potter

1:10

Stewart famously said that he could not define

1:13

pornography, but I know it when I

1:15

see it. If that's true, I think I see

1:17

it everywhere uh this, But

1:19

I think I think the whole thing is that this episode

1:22

is more than just about porn

1:25

um. That's why we're talking about it. It's more

1:27

than just a video's issue. It's it's actually a

1:29

people issue. What happens to the people

1:31

who make it, what happens to the people who are

1:33

watching it? Where is the safe and the right

1:35

way to watch it? How can we make this ethical?

1:39

And I want to preface this whole episode

1:41

because I'm very much so coming in as

1:44

a sheepish twelve

1:47

year old boys uncomfortable

1:49

and unluckily, I am about to have some amazing guests

1:51

who helped me feel a little bit more comfortable. But

1:54

I do want to preface this whole episode by

1:56

saying, I truly believe, especially

1:58

what AOC tweeted Rees s Lee with

2:01

the mantra, sex work is work. And if this

2:03

is something that you're into, I don't

2:05

want my ignorance

2:07

on this topic to be a stance

2:10

against what you're into. I want

2:12

you to be happy, and if this is something that you do,

2:14

I just hope you're doing it ethically, and I hope

2:16

you're doing it safely. But this whole

2:19

conversation really got me thinking, is

2:21

porn really everywhere? Welcome

2:25

back, everybody. I'm alex Iono. This is let's

2:27

get into it. It's my podcast, and today

2:29

we're really proving that no topic

2:32

is awful limits because we're talking about I'm

2:34

so uncomfortable. I can't even lie. We're

2:36

filming this on zoom and I'm so uncomfortable

2:38

talking about this. UM. We are

2:40

talking about porn and it is

2:43

very, very like I said, awkward

2:45

and uncomfortable for me. So I wanted to invite

2:48

some people who could make it feel a little bit less

2:50

awkward and uncomfortable. They are the

2:52

co hosts of the podcast Sex Talk

2:54

with My Mom Cam and Karen

2:56

Lee Polder. They have the talk at least

2:58

twice a week. Cam is a stand up

3:01

comic and Karen Lye is a sex positive

3:03

dating expert. Cam Karen Lee, how

3:05

are you guys. We're doing

3:08

great today. This is so fun. I

3:10

love that. You know what else I love is um. The other

3:12

podcast that I was wildly uncomfortable with

3:14

was a podcast with two of your friends.

3:16

Actually, as I'm learning, Sophia and Courtney,

3:18

who are the host of um

3:21

of private parts unknown. So

3:24

I'm very excited that we're going to keep

3:26

the uncomfortable train going with me

3:28

here. Let's do it. Yeah, we

3:30

like to say that we like to make the uncomfortable comfortable.

3:33

Okay, well, let's let's see if we can make the

3:35

uncomfortable comfortable with this topic. Because I

3:37

am truly at heart when it comes to something

3:39

like this, I'm still that innocent church

3:41

boys. So we have a lot to unwrapped

3:43

here. Um, we have three topics that we're

3:45

going to kind of talk about. I really am just curious

3:48

how how the the dynamic of

3:50

you and your mom like talking openly about

3:52

sexes. So we're gonna call this topic

3:54

finding mom's porn stashum.

3:57

And then we're gonna get into a topic right after

4:00

called sex work is work? And uh

4:02

and lastly, what do we need to know now?

4:04

So we're gonna have I I have so many questions.

4:07

I've truly just so perplexed

4:10

at this, Like I've never been so excited

4:12

slash nervous to have a conversation as

4:14

we are right now. Um. But before

4:16

we get into those topics, I have one question that

4:18

I ask all of my guests, and

4:20

that question is what are you doing

4:22

this week or what have you been doing this week

4:25

to improve your life? Um,

4:28

most of the time the answers are somewhere along

4:30

the lines of fitness goals or like something

4:32

that you're treating yourself a little bit better with mental

4:34

health and everything. I'll give you some time to think.

4:37

Uh. Usually I have somebody who's done this before,

4:39

like Karen or another guest, but now I got to show

4:42

you both how it's done. UM, So this

4:44

is this is kind of an example. So for

4:46

this week, UM, I actually

4:48

got a new car. My

4:52

lease was up in a month, and I decided

4:54

to go down to the car dealership and say,

4:56

hey, my lease is up in a month. Um.

4:59

But I also know that there's a lot

5:01

of incentives that you guys are doing with with everything

5:03

going on in the world, and so I wanted to see if there was

5:05

a way that we could switch into a new car

5:07

and get this thing going already, just because I'm moving

5:09

in a month as well, and so I didn't want to leave everything

5:12

to do like at one time. Plus,

5:14

car dealerships absolutely screw you if

5:17

they know that your deal is up, Like if

5:19

they know that you have nowhere to go, like you have to sign

5:21

a deal, They'll just they'll just screw

5:23

you over. So I decided to go a month early. I

5:25

got a car that is much more expensive

5:27

than the car I had before, and I'm not changing my payments,

5:30

bettering life bang, whoa. I'm

5:33

hyped about that. So that being said, Cam, do

5:35

you have something for yes, Uh,

5:38

mine does not involve new cars. I

5:42

have been getting very into this idea

5:45

of uh taking

5:47

breaks. So I'll

5:49

schedule and taking breaks throughout

5:51

my day and then usually I'll just blow

5:53

right past it. I'll choose, I'll

5:56

just work throughout the whole Thing'll be like, Okay, I'm gonna take a

5:58

break, and then it's like, oh, yeah, I forgot I was supposed

6:00

take that break eight hours ago. Yes exactly.

6:03

So this time I was like,

6:06

I need to actually do it, okay

6:08

because my body is breaking down. And

6:11

so I started I started looking at this YouTube video

6:14

of this buff dude and he starts leading

6:16

me through like a kind of like

6:18

his morning routine and it involves like

6:20

slapping his body rigorously.

6:23

I love to see this. Yeah, it's

6:25

just a lot of this type of thing. It's

6:27

Actually it's wonderful.

6:30

So that's improving my life. I'm gonna need

6:32

you to I'm gonna need you to send me a link to that, just so

6:34

I can figure out. I have a visual in my head that

6:37

I don't know if it's right. It's very masochistic.

6:39

And then I want to make sure that that what

6:41

I'm thinking is the exact same thing is what it

6:44

is. Yes, i'd highly

6:46

recommend it. Nice. I like it all right, Karenly,

6:48

do you have anything for us? So I was going to do

6:50

like a lofty thing about, you know, discovering

6:53

the meaning of life this week or something like

6:55

that, but I decided to tell the truth, which

6:57

is I've been working tirelessly

7:00

on fifty photo albums that I've accumulated

7:03

over the last fifty years. And

7:06

these are physical photos, not digital. We're

7:08

talking albums. Fifty albums

7:11

at fifty individual oh my

7:13

gosh. And I've taken them all out of the books

7:15

that I had neatly put them in. And

7:18

this has been going on as a lifelong project

7:20

and it's finally ending, Like now I'm

7:23

finally getting down to the last I'm taking them all

7:25

out of the albums and putting them in boxes, and

7:27

then I have duplicates, and it's almost like,

7:29

you know, the Sorcerer's Apprentice, when

7:31

the water just keeps coming and coming and just and

7:34

people sending more pictures in the mail. So I

7:36

am like at the tail end of that, and I

7:38

feel like a huge relief. And

7:41

we can now talk about porn split

7:45

second. For a split second, you were

7:47

talking about photo albums, and I forgot that

7:50

We're having just the most exciting,

7:53

nerve racking conversation right now. Um

7:56

but I love that. Good luck to you on photo albums.

7:58

I lack the patients to even go through my digital

8:00

photo album so I have no idea how you're physically

8:03

going to go through fifty real physical

8:05

photo albums. Good luck to you on

8:07

that they're done. Oh my gosh.

8:09

Then you're you're just you're

8:13

you're a magical person. Thank

8:15

you.

8:17

You know, speaking speaking of magical

8:20

people, we're about to get into some some

8:22

pretty uh interesting discussions.

8:24

Usually. Actually, I the way that I do it is

8:26

I break down in each segment I do with

8:28

one specific person. But because I

8:30

had such amazing guests, I decided we would

8:32

just do one big open conversation with each

8:35

thing. Um, So let's get into this first

8:37

topic. Uh, it really, it's for me.

8:39

I'm just trying to figure like understand fully

8:41

this dynamic between the two of you, because it's incredible

8:43

to me. Like I think about my relationship

8:46

with my mom and how open I am and my mom like

8:48

knows. Like I'll be like, oh, mom, you know when I'm dating

8:50

somebody and I tell you that I'm dating somebody, but when

8:52

I was you know, when I talk about my past

8:54

or if my mom asked me about this person, I'll be like, oh, yeah,

8:56

I hooked up with her, or like oh I only made out with her,

8:59

or whatever the city suation is. But you guys

9:01

have it like you're at level ten. If that's

9:03

level two, you guys are at level ten.

9:06

How did you get before we get into any of that, How

9:08

did you get to this place of comfort?

9:10

Has it always been like that? Was there one defining

9:13

moment what happened? I

9:15

would say growing up, I was at level five.

9:19

I would say that it was pretty comfortable

9:21

growing up, Like my mom was very much

9:23

the cool mom where my friends would

9:26

come over basically to hang out with her. Okay,

9:30

to Stacy, you gotta have Stacy's mom kind of situation.

9:33

Yeah, unfortunately, all right, sty

9:36

Stacy. Yeah,

9:38

Stacy's mom has got to going out. You don't want your friends

9:40

wanting to find on the show.

9:44

Don't think that they weren't there for Stacy's

9:46

mom. They were really there more for advice. Okay,

9:49

well let's get into that vice advice because because

9:52

karently you actually are a dating expert

9:54

who is very pro sex, very

9:56

positive sex. It's sex, it's

9:58

that sex positive. I'm kind of like the me

10:01

that kind of seems like an STD like that.

10:03

I don't know why it sounds like that. Well,

10:06

there's a lot going on. Okay, So, first of all,

10:08

I do have a master's in social work, just f

10:11

y I, but I was mostly working in

10:13

a you know, kindergarten through eighth grade

10:15

level, so I wasn't really dealing with anything

10:17

with regarding dating sex relationships.

10:20

But it all started

10:22

back when, like Cam said, you

10:24

know, his friends were over all the time and we were talking

10:26

comfortably about sex in

10:28

a funny way. They don't like entertained me. So

10:31

this these conversations gone at eleven o'clock

10:33

a night till one in the morning or so. And

10:35

it wasn't just Cam because he's got two siblings.

10:37

But when I'm gonna I'm gonna throw

10:40

this back on Cam again. He hates when

10:42

I do this, but I'm gonna do this, So go ahead, Cam,

10:44

tell him what happened next. Okay,

10:47

of course she does this. It's unreal

10:50

like the sad part of our story.

10:52

She's like, Cam's gonna handle that one. So

10:55

the sad party is when

10:57

I was seventeen, my dad was murdered.

11:00

It was a crazy, yest experience. I

11:02

flipped our world's upside down. We obviously

11:05

that's not something you really expect um

11:08

and then you know it brought my mom

11:10

and I and the rest of her family much closer

11:12

together to get through this tragedy. In

11:16

that situation, eventually

11:18

my mom started dating again, and

11:22

she became an expert in

11:24

her own right from all the experiences that she was

11:26

having. I'd say, on for so you became

11:28

an expert by living it. Yeah,

11:30

Well, also because of the fact that most

11:33

of the guys that were hitting at me were younger. Is

11:36

that that? Would you say that that's what supprise surprised

11:38

you the most about dating or was there something else in terms

11:41

of because you were you were married for quite a bit

11:43

I'm assuming and twenty

11:46

four years so at that point, what

11:49

was what had changed about dating? What were you just

11:51

did anything kind of throw you off about?

11:53

Oh wow, this is how it is these days. Oh

11:55

it's completely different. I mean there was no Internet

11:57

dating or anything like that. Um.

12:00

And I was also surprised at all of a sudden, all

12:02

these young guys, like eighteen to thirty

12:04

five year old guys. I was in my late forties

12:06

when we're hitting. I mean, I'm like the nerve. But

12:08

then I'm like, this is kind of nice. So

12:12

you became a cougar. Then I became

12:14

and I redefined the word cougar. Okay,

12:16

so what's the new define? The acronym uh

12:18

SEE is for confident, older, unique,

12:21

januine, assertive and racy woman. I

12:24

like that. I like that.

12:27

That's that's and you know what I couldn't figure out

12:29

another. It's not a mil if, it's not a single

12:31

hot mom, it's not a mature woman. It's just I

12:33

figured cougar is gonna work. I think

12:35

that I like the cougar. I feel like the thing I

12:37

like about cougar's cougar gives the power to

12:40

the woman or the cougar you

12:42

know when you say the other thing, you say malf when

12:44

you say these other ones, it's like people are are

12:46

throwing a word at somebody, whereas somebody gets

12:48

to claim what they are. And I think it's dope that

12:51

you have the confidence to just put it out there. Shoutouts

12:53

cougars everywhere. By the way, shout out cougars

12:55

everywhere. It's right. Book

12:58

about it too? Okay, Okay,

13:00

great a book. So Cam, how did you find with the

13:02

book the way that you found out that your mom is

13:05

now full on giving advice

13:07

about dating and sex. Well, she

13:09

told me she was going to make a YouTube channel

13:11

to help other women like after going

13:13

through death or divorce, but then

13:16

it quickly became she was helping younger

13:18

men, uh learn

13:20

about penis size and you

13:22

know, how to how to

13:24

attract a cougar and how to pleasure

13:26

them. And I unfortunately learned

13:28

this through like videos

13:31

that my friends would send me that my mother created,

13:33

Oh my god, or during

13:36

my own Google searches, which is very disturbing.

13:38

This is what you're searching for, your searching for stuff.

13:41

Yeah, I search.

13:44

I don't think we, I don't think any of us need to

13:46

talk about what exactly is being searched

13:48

right now. I think he was searching for all sex

13:50

tips. That's what good this golly,

13:53

I can't eat this sot

13:58

in the room he was searching for oral I

14:00

was looking for all sex tips and my mother's videos

14:02

came up and then and I

14:05

was like, this is I did not expect this,

14:09

okay, So anyway,

14:12

Cam decides to use my book

14:14

A Cougar's Guide get your aspect out there in

14:17

a stand up comedy right because

14:19

I was very humiliated by this, and I was like, how

14:21

do I like, I need to either use this

14:23

or pretend like my life.

14:26

If I don't, I don't exist. By the way, Cam,

14:28

it's incredible that your stand up comedian, because

14:30

your life right now, the way, this whole form

14:32

out of everything is just comedic gold Like

14:34

you will never run out of something to talk about.

14:36

Thank you. Yeah, I know. It turned out

14:39

to be a gold mine. So I just I

14:41

was like, eventually I was like, well, why

14:44

why am I doing like eight minutes sets? We could be

14:46

having these hour long conversations on our podcast

14:49

where I just just have a conversation

14:51

with her, And it's insane where

14:54

these conversations go. So I have

14:56

a new question, which is, um, currently

14:58

actually, recently, you have revealed that

15:01

you have a porn safe and

15:03

that if anything were to happened to you, Cam

15:05

should find it and burn it. Well,

15:08

it's he said, it's a porn safe. It's actually

15:11

a porn tape. Because in the olden

15:13

days, you know, fifteen years ago. I've

15:15

been with my boyfriend for twelve years, so it must have been twelve

15:17

years old. Um, we made one,

15:20

you know, a porn o. Yes,

15:23

it's har it's not

15:25

even just like, oh, these are magazines

15:27

she's collected. No, this is her own porn.

15:30

But she made and I think everybody should do it.

15:32

What did I get this episode

15:34

into? Why? Why

15:37

wouldn't you do that if you're dating someone

15:39

or if you're going to study relationship with someone. It's

15:41

fun. You know what it is is like this is I'll

15:43

be a dent on. It's the reason why I'm just like

15:45

my face is flush red, I am just

15:48

through the moon right now. Is because this

15:50

is not I mean you

15:52

have to understand, like, I know you guys are Midwesterners,

15:55

but like but I am like

15:58

I was like the way that I was raised

16:00

as like I this is all I

16:02

don't even watch porn, let alone

16:05

make one. Wait, Alex,

16:08

I don't watch porn either, I know, but

16:10

but you make do you make them too? I don't

16:12

make Okay, So it's just a

16:14

Karen Lee thing. So it's just a Karen Lean. There's

16:16

a lot of people out there doing that. I mean, yes, there's obviously

16:19

there's obviously people. And by the way, I want to preface

16:21

this, I have nothing against people

16:24

who are who are in the porn industry. I have nothing

16:26

against sex workers. I have nothing. I think that's incredible.

16:28

If you want to do that with your life, I

16:30

absolutely support you. It's just for

16:33

me. I've never been It's

16:35

never been something that I wanted to to

16:37

attract myself to. So I want to preface with that because I don't

16:39

want to shame or disgrade, like

16:41

like discredit people who are getting

16:44

paper or doing their thing or just having fun

16:46

passion. I mean, currently it seems like you just did it out

16:48

of out of fun. Of course, this

16:51

is just from my boyfriend and I Okay,

16:53

it was just that's it was just a little fun. That's kind

16:55

of sweet. That's actually kind of I mean,

16:57

I'm now flipping over a completely that's kind of sweet

16:59

the way that you just said that like it. It's

17:02

never That's the reason we called it a porn safe

17:04

because what he did, he did I don't know where you get

17:06

he labeled it as a porn safe.

17:09

It was a safe that I kept my tape in

17:13

nobody and I asked him to be nice if

17:15

if it ever came out, if

17:17

you just burn it. I just don't want it on the internet when

17:20

I am I responsible?

17:22

How did I become? Your

17:25

sister is very conservative when

17:27

it comes to what about what about the other star

17:30

of the porn? Oh? Him, No, I would

17:32

not know, you know, and he's the one who

17:34

would post it. What

17:36

I'm concerned about. That's why it's safe that the

17:38

combinations. Okay,

17:41

so I mean it

17:43

just it's something fun. I

17:45

think everybody should try doing it. It will enhance

17:47

your sex life. I'm not getting some more

17:49

tips, Alex, Okay, let's I'm I'm

17:51

interested in more tips, but I'm not saying that I won't

17:54

and I'm not saying that I will. I'm just saying I will

17:56

take your advice with a grain of

17:58

salt. And I can

18:01

never imagine myself doing it. But I really appreciate

18:03

really appreciate the advice before we

18:05

get into the rest of the advice, because I want to I want

18:08

to I want to hear all of the advice

18:10

that you have. Um, I want

18:12

to hear just more about this dynamic between the

18:14

two of you. You have a podcast that

18:16

is literally each episode it's

18:19

always talking about sex. It's the talk

18:21

with your mother. Is there anything that's off

18:23

limits between the two of you, because it seems like there's

18:25

not. At first there was,

18:28

and then it's been five years, so you

18:30

know it. We just broke down.

18:32

I think every barrier that we put

18:35

up for ourselves. Anal was a big

18:37

barrier. Okay,

18:39

I think you're around your three. We broke

18:42

through the anal barrier and

18:44

now very much on the table the

18:47

discussion, the discussion, the

18:49

discussion we didn't have anal. I

18:51

mean, if people always say, are you having

18:53

sex, I'm like, no, not power

18:55

of what do you mean we're having sex? No? Oh my

18:57

god? Just talking about it. And I

19:00

think the more people would talk about,

19:02

the less shame that would be around it, the

19:04

more comfortable people would feel

19:07

talking about it after beforehand. And

19:09

and it's helpful to talk with your family

19:11

members because it opens up not just a

19:13

conversation about sex, but about drugs,

19:15

about anything that you're ashamed about.

19:18

And it makes families so much closer. I mean,

19:20

it's helped with me and my relationship with my daughter,

19:22

my other son, my boyfriend,

19:24

my siblings, my friends, my

19:26

parents. I think, go

19:29

ahead. I was thinking, like,

19:31

you know, I got into this, into this because I thought it would be

19:33

funny, you know, and then I was like, whoa,

19:35

this is actually people are a listening

19:38

to us for sex advice, which is

19:40

which is not advised, very

19:43

ill advised, and

19:45

and be you know, we're

19:47

having an actual impact by making people

19:49

more comfortable, by making

19:52

them feel less alone in this because

19:55

I think other people probably make porn

19:58

saves and porn stashes for themselves, and

20:01

they might feel shame about it if they don't feel like they

20:03

could you know, this is not something they could talk about

20:05

with their parents or with with even

20:07

their friends. And so by

20:10

what I've learned is that by even just having the conversation,

20:13

you can end up accepting it for yourself

20:16

in yourself being like, yeah, this is who I am, this is

20:18

what I stand for. Interesting, I

20:20

accept that this is a part of me. This turns

20:22

me in you know. So it seems to me that

20:25

karently you are obviously the you

20:27

are much more like just open, not

20:30

like not ashamed to talk about anything or

20:32

really address anything. So, Cam,

20:34

is there anything about that like with

20:36

them being not only your your

20:39

podcast partner but also your mom, Like, is

20:41

there anything that embarrass you and it embarrasses

20:43

you anymore or no? Uh,

20:46

She's become like probably the easiest

20:48

person for me to talk to about this stuff in

20:51

general, which is pretty Yeah, it's

20:53

really good. Um. I I

20:55

don't think that there are I'm not

20:57

doing too many crazy things that I wouldn't

20:59

feel people sharing with her or the internet.

21:02

Uh. I mean it seems like, I mean, it seems like

21:04

you guys have broken down the barrier of like a

21:06

secret or something that's too embarrassing

21:09

to talk about online. Alex,

21:11

Why would it be detrimental

21:14

to talk to your mom or your dad about sex. I

21:16

don't think it's detrimental. It's more so to me,

21:18

like I and I and I'm totally open with my

21:20

parents. Like they asked me something, I would answer it

21:22

immediately. It's more so I'm

21:24

not I don't share the spirit of Cam

21:26

where I want to hear about my own parents.

21:29

And maybe it's because my parents are

21:31

are, you know, like I've They're all

21:33

I've known my whole life, Like my parents never

21:35

went off and we're single and dated around,

21:37

like while I was dating around. That might play

21:39

into it, I guess a little bit. But for me,

21:41

I just I don't want to hear about my my parents

21:44

in the same I know the

21:46

human beings, but I'm sure

21:48

and that part doesn't gross me out. I just don't want

21:50

to hear more about it. Like I know my parents,

21:53

That's why I'm here, but I don't want to hear like

21:55

the same details that it seems like you

21:57

guys are open to talking about what you're trying to I

22:00

don't really talk a lot about my sexual

22:03

relationship with my boyfriend with

22:05

cam or on the internet. Usually I'm telling

22:08

stories is things that have happened in my

22:10

past when I've dated before, or

22:12

or things that have happened even in in my marriage.

22:15

I'm able to talk about easier than what's currently

22:17

going on right now because it's uncomfortable because

22:20

I have to respect his privacy as well. Just

22:23

to clarify, Also, I'm not a huge

22:25

fan of hearing he

22:31

does give me a lot of products though, because he's

22:33

you know, he's he's can is the business

22:35

guy. What do you mean giving

22:37

me products? Like? Oh?

22:40

Like okay, alright, alright, Well,

22:42

good news is, guys, we are as much as

22:44

we've been talking about sex, this episode

22:46

is actually about porn, and so obviously

22:49

both of you guys are sex positive,

22:51

as we've mentioned before, and as I'm

22:53

sure the listener can gather at

22:55

this point. Um, but are you

22:57

guys pro porn in terms of watching?

23:00

Yes, I'm

23:04

pro. If it, if it helps, if the person is

23:06

into it, go for it. For me personally,

23:09

it doesn't I much prefer like audio

23:11

porn actually to visual porn. Interesting,

23:14

can you I genuinely because I don't know

23:16

what is that? Give a little plug to

23:18

Dipsy Yeah, Dipsy

23:21

Dipsey stories dot com slash mom

23:23

if you want to check out thirty days for free. But basically,

23:25

it's it's almost like you're in an immersive

23:29

theater experience, but it's only audio,

23:32

and you're you're basically

23:34

dropped into someone's sex

23:36

life in a sexual it's

23:40

a it's a it's a gateway.

23:42

It's actually, you know, it's a gate way.

23:44

I don't know if it's a gate that I'm really kind

23:46

of interested in walking out at this point, but

23:48

if I do, I will let you know. It

23:51

is a little lighter because the visuals of

23:53

of real porn can sometimes you jarring

23:56

interesting. So that's very interesting to have

23:58

you. Have you both always felt that way about it?

24:00

I guess more socaringly, have you always been proporn

24:03

when you were married? Did you feel that in your relationship?

24:05

Do you feel like you know, I know

24:08

some people think, especially in the

24:10

more conservative side, a lot of people will assume

24:12

porn as you know, as something that can really

24:14

derail a relationship, derail a

24:16

marriage, or or any form of a relationship.

24:20

You know. I wrote down the pros and the cons.

24:24

This is amazing. Thank you for prepping. I've prepped

24:26

UM. First of all, just for your knowledge.

24:30

I am not a porn star. Great

24:34

note, great thank you. That's a great note. Thank

24:36

you. However, I have a very close

24:38

friend of mine who is um

24:40

a porn star. She's been in it for over thirty

24:42

five years. I believe her name is Nina Hartley,

24:45

so I've I've learned a lot about the

24:47

industry from her and UM.

24:50

Also we've interviewed at least a dozen

24:52

porn stars over the years on our podcast,

24:55

so have male and female perspectives.

24:57

Um. Most of the porn stars are totally cool people.

24:59

They're is open about I played basketball

25:02

at twenty four Fitness with the Points, so I'm not gonna say

25:04

who he is, but I played basketball with him and I

25:06

was like, you're really cool. What do you do for work? And he's like, I work

25:08

in the film industry. And I was like, oh cool, what movies

25:10

have you been on? And he's like you ever heard of this?

25:12

And I was like, oh, I didn't know that's what

25:14

you meant. Awesome. But he's the

25:16

coolest guy. He's the coolest dude. They're very

25:19

cool, open people. I want to always constantly

25:21

repeat through this episode it is not I am

25:23

absolutely for doing

25:26

you and doing what you love and having fun

25:28

making a job out of it, and if that's you, that's

25:30

you, that's incredible, but continue on.

25:32

I would also like to echo that way, as Nina

25:35

says, it's entertainment,

25:37

not education. So one of the cons

25:40

is that young kids, especially like

25:42

I remember my I don't want to say who

25:44

it was, but I know of young seventh and eighth grade

25:46

boys that we're learning about

25:48

sex through porn. It's

25:50

not an educational tool. Knowing that

25:53

you don't want a kid to grow up thinking, well, this

25:55

is how you have sex. That's not that's

25:58

not good sex, that's not what women want. That's

26:00

for damn sure. So there are a

26:02

lot of um reasons why

26:04

you wouldn't want to learn about

26:07

sex through porn. It's not teaching you

26:09

you know that the other person is a human being,

26:11

um because generally porn is consumed by men. However,

26:15

for like I think it's great for

26:17

couples. You know, it can expand your horizons

26:20

and fantasies. Sex is in

26:22

in good sex is in your

26:24

brain. So if you're watching

26:27

porn, in it and and it stimulates

26:29

you, and you guys can talk about and fantasize and

26:31

role play things that you've seen

26:33

in porn. It's it's extremely beneficial

26:37

for your sex life because if you want to try

26:39

new things after a while, especially if you're in a relationship for

26:41

a long time, it gets obviously

26:44

it can get dull or boring, and you want to

26:46

spice it up watch porn together.

26:49

However, again, another negative

26:51

is that you can have one person get very

26:54

into porn to the point that they don't have had

26:56

This happened with me with dates where

26:58

I've been with a guy that didn't want to be with me.

27:01

So you know, porn can

27:03

be for the lazy person too. For

27:06

the lazy person, I have close

27:08

friends who have gotten divorced

27:11

over porn addictions, and so I

27:13

know that the addiction, you know, just like we've

27:15

had in our other addiction episodes, can

27:17

be you know, addiction

27:19

of any kind, including porn, can

27:22

can definitely damage people

27:24

in damage relationships. Right, If you

27:26

have a compulsive personality and you start

27:29

getting into porn, it could lead

27:31

you down a slippery slope. However,

27:33

if if you're watching it just for fun, or

27:35

if you're watching it to learn about your own

27:38

body and it helps you masturbate

27:40

and and figure out how how

27:43

your parts work, it's a good thing, right.

27:45

Anything that you're learning, to me is good. If

27:47

you're learning good things or bad things about it, it's

27:49

still good. So you

27:52

can find out what you like and what you don't like by

27:54

watching it as well. So cam Um,

27:56

I have I have a fact here. The average kid

27:58

is being exposed to porn between eight

28:00

and eleven years old, which is obviously

28:02

to me at least way too early. That just

28:04

shows how accessible porn is to anybody

28:07

with a smartphone or a computer cam. What

28:09

was your first exposure do you remember it? How

28:11

old were you? My first

28:13

exposure was, Oh,

28:15

man, it was either a magazine

28:18

that I found a camp that like

28:20

a friend had, or

28:23

it was an awell profile.

28:28

It's the closest encounter I hit there

28:30

was it? Oh And then I

28:32

remember I remember I had a

28:35

very close friend that had like a

28:37

TV in his room, which

28:39

is kind of rare growing up, and so we

28:43

kind of watched porn together one night,

28:45

and I was like, this is very this is such

28:47

a weird experience. It's hard

28:49

because you don't really know like when you're

28:51

anywhere from you know, early

28:54

teens. It's massive like

28:56

sensory overload where you're just like I don't know what

28:58

to do at this point, Like you know what I mean,

29:00

Like I remember seeing for the first time I

29:03

was where I think I was actually

29:05

in in sixth grade, so I was like

29:07

I was eleven years old. I was twelve years old,

29:09

and it was at one of my homies birthday parties,

29:12

and he had a computer down like they had that basement

29:14

and there's a computer in the basement, and they were like, yo,

29:16

check this out. And I was like, check what out? And

29:18

I was like, that's what that looks like. And

29:21

it was wild. And let

29:23

me tell you, when you're in like fifth sixth grade,

29:26

that's a that's a it's a catastrophic

29:29

thing to experience and you don't know

29:32

you're like I was. I remember I was in sixth grade. I was nervous

29:34

about hugging girls. And then the next thing you

29:36

see is that I

29:39

don't think I slept the whole night after I

29:41

watched almost like nightmare

29:44

about it. You remember the other story

29:46

about that. What's the other story? One

29:48

of his friends, um, he was watching

29:50

porn and he must

29:52

have fallen asleep, and he had locked his door so

29:54

that his parents couldn't come in while he was masturbating,

29:57

obviously to porn. And

29:59

he fall asleep and in a dead sleep,

30:01

and he's wearing headphones so they can't hear what he's

30:04

watching on TV. And they

30:06

started knock on the door and he's not open the door

30:08

because he's sound asleep with his headphones and he had

30:10

passed out after he watched the porn and

30:13

they're knocking at the door and they're knocking the door. I asked

30:15

him, get up, get up, get up, and they and they thought something

30:17

happened to him. They called the fire department

30:20

and the fire department had to break down the door.

30:22

Him sleeping in front of his computer with his headphones

30:25

on. That

30:27

is it's saying that that. It's like, it's

30:30

it's it's like a TV show type of situation.

30:32

Listen, We're gonna take a quick break because I need to

30:34

just kind of exhale. I really

30:36

need to just digest everything that's happened. We'll

30:38

be back. Al right,

30:40

guys, we are back. This is alex Iono

30:43

here, and I'm I have that

30:45

weird twelve year old grin on my face

30:47

when I'm hearing things I shouldn't hear. And it's

30:49

and it's because we're here talking about porn. I

30:52

have Cam and Karen Lee Potterer

30:54

here. They are the hosts of Sex Talk with

30:56

My Mom. If you haven't listened to it, it is

30:59

a rush of everything, So make

31:01

sure you pick a good episode and go and listen

31:03

to one. Um. But we're talking about porn, and

31:05

I think we got the little like I

31:07

think I got my fifth grade sixth grade jitters

31:09

out like my little young teenage jitters out,

31:11

So we can actually have some real conversations.

31:14

UM, well, let's let's talk about the stigma of porn.

31:17

UM. I have some very interesting statistics

31:19

that do not add up. According

31:22

to a recent Gallup poll, forty three percent

31:24

of Americans say porn is morally

31:26

acceptable. But then in

31:29

an article in Psychology Today, they interviewed

31:31

a thousand people in long term relationships

31:34

and seventy three percent of the women and

31:36

percent of the men reported Internet porn

31:39

used in the last six months. So that leads this.

31:41

You know, whatever is forty three will will meet the

31:43

middle about eight percent. There's

31:46

forty of people who are who are really

31:49

lying or who are using porn and saying

31:51

that it's morally unacceptable freaks.

31:55

What's what are your thoughts on that, Karenly or

31:57

cam People just don't want to admit

32:00

it because of the stigma attached to it

32:02

instead of just owning up to it, which is you

32:04

know, and there are now more and

32:06

more women UM directors

32:08

of porn who make porn more

32:11

towards women, UM, which I think

32:13

is really important. Ericallus does it, and

32:15

it's it's important because women

32:17

would definitely benefit a lot of women who

32:19

are more repressed and can see, you know,

32:21

the positive benefits of porn too. So I

32:24

just think that people are just, for whatever reason,

32:27

to embarrassed to say that they watch it,

32:30

right, And and that's what I kind of like, that's what I've

32:32

been enjoying a lot recently. And I don't

32:34

want to link porn to mental health, but

32:37

mental health, like it became a lot more common

32:39

and no one was sweating, like, oh I have anxiety

32:42

or i've i've I get depressed. Sometimes the

32:44

more that you normalized it and you came out about

32:46

it and you're like, yeah, I do this and this is cool.

32:48

So I kind of want to imagine a world where

32:51

there is no social stigma around

32:53

porn, like it is just another thing. I mean,

32:55

after all, like what we think

32:58

of as pornographic or have seen has changed

33:00

over centuries. I mean, I'm sure when porn first

33:02

was a thing, like I mean, there's a point in time where women's

33:04

ankles were were obscene

33:07

to look at, Like you, it was you are cursed

33:09

if you look at women's ankles. Now people

33:13

are people are showing everything

33:15

and in different in regular

33:17

TV and it's a business. I mean, it's

33:19

a whole thing about and that's why I'm so interested to talk

33:21

about it because it's not something that I'm

33:23

you know, necessarily the most savvy

33:26

too. That's why I wanted to talk about porn is because,

33:28

like you mentioned, now you have female directors.

33:30

Now there's full business models that surrounded

33:33

and there's a true even only fans, you know, like

33:35

we look at only fans, and that is

33:37

another form in which people are profiting

33:39

off of being proud of their bodies and being

33:41

confident and saying, hey, I know some people

33:44

don't want to show this off to the rest of the world. It doesn't

33:46

bother me at all, and I can

33:48

also make money from it. Yeah.

33:51

I think a lot of times people

33:53

are taught about porn and told that

33:55

it's morally corrupt through

33:57

religion, and so when

33:59

it I think when it's taught

34:01

through religion, it's not necessarily their own

34:03

personal value system speaking.

34:06

So they might act differently based

34:08

on their own personal values even though

34:10

they know morally quote unquote

34:13

they were told this is wrong, it doesn't

34:15

add up to how they want to act. So

34:17

I think that's why you get such a big you

34:19

know, discrepancy in the in those numbers, especially

34:22

if we're using Like when we're in this world

34:24

where there's no stigma, let's get rid of

34:26

the porn addicts or the over

34:28

compulsive users. We're talking about just ethically

34:31

created porn, where it's made by two or more

34:33

consenting adults and for the purpose

34:36

of distribution. If the stigma is

34:38

taken away, what happens with porn? Like

34:40

what makes you? What is it? How does it change the way we feel?

34:42

I know, I'm I'm stuttering all over the place, but

34:45

but I'm very I'm very

34:47

uncomfortable still talking about I thought I added out the little

34:49

but I'm still here. It's just I just never talked

34:51

about it before. My mom. I'll

34:53

buy the way. Mom, if you've listened to this so

34:55

far, don't at all like or

34:59

just listen to we're not right

35:02

now. It's not we don't have to. We

35:04

don't have I mean, like, like, she

35:06

she would absolutely love you currently. You're the sweetest

35:08

woman. Cam. She'd probably laugh so hard at you.

35:11

She would I would not be welcome home next

35:13

time. So we're going to I'm

35:15

just kidding. My mom's incredible, you know, it's

35:17

it's weird if your mom watches um

35:20

any Netflix, Like I watched Peaky Blinders,

35:23

right, there's scenes there

35:25

that turned me on way more than porn. You

35:28

know, it's not just about like you know, the graphic

35:30

you know, penis vagina. There is some serious,

35:33

like sexy hot scenes there.

35:35

You know, they have B DSM and all this other

35:37

stuff going on. It's way

35:40

way better than than just watching him straight

35:42

up. You know, here comes the fireman

35:44

and he's going, don't bring his pizza to the girl.

35:47

You know that kind of stuff. Have you guys seen that movie,

35:49

the three D sixty five days movie?

35:51

Oh? I saw that? Oh yeah, Oh

35:54

no, I thought you're talking about three hundred Matt and they actually

35:57

forget that. Now, what the hell is that? I don't even

35:59

I don't three hundred run was like what

36:01

they had, really hat guys, and they had one we don't

36:03

got to worry about. I don't know. Are you talking about the movie

36:06

three hundred or is this like some kind of weird porn

36:08

spinoff that you're talking about. I'm trying to figure out.

36:10

You sound like one of my sons. Okay, do you definitely

36:13

like my son? Correct? All, I

36:16

just wanted to make sure to help me out

36:18

here. Yes, three and

36:21

no sexual. I mean, guess there was like a couple of scenes.

36:23

Well, it's like, fifty shades are great, fifty

36:25

shades are great normalized women, Like

36:28

my friend was on the airplane, she's hiding a book, she's

36:30

reading it. And then the movies. But guys

36:33

were doing it just because they wanted a wire women getting

36:35

so turned down by the you know, the the whole

36:37

b D S M like theme that was in fifty

36:40

Shades a gray right, So that was

36:42

like the worst written book, by the way, it was so stupid.

36:44

I read, of course, all all the volumes.

36:47

I'm yet to read and or watch. But

36:49

I do know that there is still a stigma even about

36:51

that stuff. Why do you guys think that there's

36:53

such a stigma about porn consumption in the

36:55

United States, even though it is literally it's

36:57

on net like you said, it's on Netflix, it's in books,

36:59

it's that magazines, it's everywhere. Why do you

37:01

think there's still such a big stigma. Oh,

37:04

I think it's there's a stigma against sex,

37:06

Like even the conversation around even talking

37:08

about sex is taboo, like

37:11

it makes you bashful, right, the

37:14

closer closer you get to it. Watching

37:17

people do this, of course it's going to be,

37:19

you know, a taboo situation. It's

37:21

very interesting. I mean, I guess what

37:24

would you what was your advice? Then? So for somebody

37:27

like me, let's say, you know, you raise super fearful,

37:30

honestly of porn and it's like magical,

37:33

mystical dark ways. I would it's

37:35

that same thought, like a lot of us are raised up

37:38

that like if you watch porn one time, you could

37:40

your whole life is like porn is equivalent to

37:42

meth, right, or like if you do this, it

37:44

is like you will never turn back. It's

37:46

absolutely what would you what's your

37:48

advice? Karen Lye or even cam to

37:50

somebody who like me, was raised thinking

37:53

porn is the worst thing in the world, And what would

37:55

you tell us to kind of inform us why it's not

37:57

as scary as we were led to believe. I would

38:00

say that you start with erotica just reading

38:02

about sex scenes, are watching

38:05

some you know, light light porn scenes

38:07

on something like Peaky Blinders. You're

38:10

going to get excited by it, and it's a good

38:12

excitement. Sex is good, Sex feels

38:14

good, and it's meant to be good, So why

38:16

not enhance your sex life. It's like guys saying,

38:18

oh, I don't want my girl phone using a vibrator

38:20

because that means I'm not good enough. No,

38:23

it's going to enhance your sex life to use a vibrator.

38:25

Anything that you can hance your sex life would be

38:27

a good thing. As long as it's too

38:29

consenting adults and you're not doing

38:31

anything dangerous or harmful and it's not

38:34

underage, why not make it better

38:36

trying different things? Interesting?

38:39

Yeah, I think so is the question like

38:42

why should know? Like, what would

38:44

you say to someone like, like, so I came in

38:46

here, I've obviously I'm very lucky

38:49

that I've brought in my horizons in terms

38:51

of just acknowledging that everything that I was raised

38:53

to believe may not necessarily be clear

38:56

view of what something is or is not. What

38:58

would you say to somebody who's me in being like

39:00

no, Like, porn is the worst thing

39:02

in the world. It's terrible. You can't it'll ruin

39:04

your relationship, It'll it'll tear you apart.

39:07

I think everything is. My mom

39:09

says everything in moderation, like if

39:11

it floats your boat, if you're excited about

39:14

it and you're like craving it. See

39:16

how it goes. And if it starts getting overwhelmed

39:18

and you can't get and you can't stop

39:21

watching porn, then maybe just

39:23

you know, put the brakes at it. But for most

39:25

people, you don't just develop addictions

39:28

like instantaneously,

39:31

like it's repeated, it's you

39:33

know. And I also similarly,

39:36

I think that if you

39:38

should do things that bring you pleasure, if it brings you

39:40

pleasure, and watch people have sex, watch

39:42

people sex, why not. You're gonna

39:44

die one day, you might as well. Uh, that's

39:47

very gripping argument right there. You're

39:50

gonna die one day, so why not watch porn?

39:52

Now that's um

39:55

okay. So recently, guys, on an episode of

39:57

your podcast, you talked about fantasies

39:59

versus as realities because, like

40:01

you mentioned, it is entertainment, not education.

40:04

But I know that a lot of like I know, there

40:07

was this like joke that was like a lot of guys they're

40:09

like, oh, yeah, I want to do all of these things

40:11

that I saw on these videos, when in reality,

40:14

it's not what women want, it's not necessarily

40:16

what humans want done to them. So

40:18

what amount of what you see in these

40:20

videos? Or these you know, these stories

40:22

or these pictures of erotica. Uh, is

40:24

to bring into your own relationships. Um,

40:27

in real life. I

40:29

think it's something that has to be decided between

40:31

you and your partner, you know, Like, yeah,

40:35

it varies. It's the same with like infidelity.

40:38

Like some people are like, you can't

40:40

kiss anyone else, and if that's the contract

40:42

you have, then that's the contract you have. There's no like

40:44

absolute you know. So for

40:46

some people, watching porn in a relationship is

40:48

kind of breaking that infidelity

40:51

contract from other people having

40:53

played parties and going to play parties

40:55

and you know, if you're having sex in

40:57

the same bed, it's okay, but if you go in

40:59

at for room, it's not okay. So it

41:01

completely varies a couple of couple, I think I don't

41:04

know what a play party is, and I'm very

41:06

scared you it

41:09

sounds it sounds like something you should only do as a

41:11

child. Um. But unfortunately adults

41:13

got ahold of it and turned it to terrible nous

41:16

and we didn't even mention camming cam

41:19

girls. I don't know, okay, okay,

41:21

I do know what that is. That's an only fans thing. By

41:23

the way, Oh, this is a total side note because

41:25

I now have a question for you currently that being said,

41:27

what Cam said, where it is it is customizable

41:30

to your own relationship. How

41:32

do you address those types

41:34

of things in a relationship? How do you Because

41:36

I I damn sure no that you shouldn't

41:38

just go for it. I think going for it is probably

41:41

the worst advice you can give to somebody who's like, I want to

41:43

try this. I saw this in a video. I want to try

41:45

it, and going for it is probably not

41:47

the best advice. So what is your advice and somebody

41:50

discussing it? I mean a

41:52

lot of people are even scared to bringing the

41:54

topic up because another person might be insulted

41:57

or feel, you know, they're not good enough because

41:59

you're again because you're trying to enhance something.

42:02

So I always say, like, you

42:04

know, talk everything has to be

42:06

communicated, right, So communicate

42:08

about well. I saw this on

42:11

this show. I saw this happening on Peaky

42:13

Blinders. I saw this. I

42:16

love this show Blinders. Don't you care this

42:19

show? Man? It's hot? Um

42:22

Anyway, in order for me

42:24

to like something, it's got to hear like dysfunctional

42:27

Family, it's got to have a lot

42:29

of sex. And violence. Then I

42:31

love it, so I can give you. I

42:33

can give you my restume, my TV show recommendations

42:36

later. But you know, with

42:39

anything, whether it's being like, do you want

42:41

to smoke weed together? Or do you want to do

42:43

you know, do something crazy together? Do you want to

42:45

do mushrooms together? Do you do you

42:47

wanna, like Cam said, try you

42:50

know a threesome? You know, these are delicate

42:52

subjects that you want to bring up very carefully,

42:55

but in a way respectfully not necessary. Don't

42:57

bring it up while you're in the middle of sex. Do you guys

43:00

think that there's any kink er fantasy that is too

43:02

weird? Nothing

43:05

is nothing is too weird, Nothing

43:07

is too weird. But we've heard quite a few different

43:09

things. Now I have to Now

43:13

I go and listen to sex talk with

43:15

my mom, and you will find all those weird things.

43:18

Oh man, we are going to take a break. I

43:20

think we need I need another break real quick.

43:22

Um, Before we take our break,

43:25

how do we gauge whether our porn usage

43:27

is healthy or not? Again, not from

43:29

a moral perspective, but more in the balance

43:31

of life. You've both mentioned everything in moderation.

43:34

How do you gauge whether porn. The amount

43:36

of porn that you consume is healthy or not. Honestly,

43:39

it's the same thing as how you engage if you

43:41

are drinking too much, or smoking too

43:43

much, or gambling

43:45

too much. If it affects your life, it's starting

43:47

to interfere with your life. It's if it's all you think about

43:50

instead of being present with things that are going

43:52

on with your life. It's it's too much,

43:54

you know. It's it's a question of you know, is this

43:56

a compulsion or is it just something I enjoy

43:58

doing? So it's it's not something

44:00

like I could say, well, if you watch more than three porns of

44:03

weeks, or you're addicted. I don't think it works

44:05

that way. I would I would also like to add

44:07

like I don't know if this should apply

44:09

to everyone, but something for me, When

44:12

to determine whether I'm addicted

44:14

to something or doing something out of compulsion of

44:18

a real vice, I like to see what's

44:20

driving it, Like if

44:22

if I'm is it I'm sitting down

44:24

to watch porn because I want to experience

44:27

pleasure right now and I'm in a good mood and this

44:29

is gonna be fun right now, or is it

44:31

I'm really depressed. I just need

44:33

an escape. I need to have something to

44:35

distract me, and that's why I'm going to porn. And

44:38

if it's more of the latter, I'd say, then

44:41

you might be heading in the direction

44:43

of using something as an

44:45

addictive measure. Interesting,

44:47

I am interested.

44:50

I need to go run around the block just to get this bashfulness

44:52

out of my body. I'm just I

44:56

I'm starting to think that the rosenus

44:58

of my cheeks is never going to go away. I

45:00

am so I'm

45:02

blushing, and I don't know what I'm blushing

45:05

about. So we're gonna take a quick break, and when

45:07

we come back, we're gonna talk about what

45:09

do we do now? We'll be right back, all

45:13

right. I just finished running around the block.

45:15

I'm sweating profusely. My

45:18

and and I didn't even run, actually just walk. I didn't

45:20

even leave the house. I lied. You guys can see this. It's

45:22

a visual recording. I didn't run. I'm sweating though

45:25

as if I did, because I feel like I'm having

45:27

By the way, I never had to talk with my parents. I

45:29

forgot to mention that never at the talk, and

45:32

now now, in a weird way,

45:34

you and your son are my mother and father. I don't

45:37

want to get into the schematics of that.

45:39

That's kind of my father. Okay,

45:41

that's an interesting dynamic, and we would have to

45:44

sit and like with a white board and draw out

45:46

how that would be possible.

45:48

UM. I have a couple of questions now that kind

45:50

of just talk about nowadays. You know, we've

45:52

kind of gone into what porns

45:55

meant through the years and and your guys

45:57

history. But I want to talk about now because I know that there's

45:59

a lot of listeners who are just like me, who

46:01

are super uncomfortable talking about it.

46:04

I know that there's a lot a lot of listeners who might

46:06

need some advice on how to level

46:08

themselves out, and some people who just need to

46:10

feel heard and seen and be like,

46:12

Okay, cool, I'm I'm normal. This is what I'm

46:14

going through. Uh. My first question

46:17

is nudes. It's

46:19

a very common thing for my generation. People

46:22

send them, people receive them, people

46:24

ask for them, people don't ask for them,

46:26

and they just get them. And that's probably not something

46:28

that you should do if you're a human being. UM,

46:31

what are your thoughts on on nudes cam

46:33

and currently where do they fall in the porn

46:36

umbrella? Can I start by saying,

46:38

I do not like unsolicited

46:40

dick pics nobody. By the way, if you have

46:43

a penis, don't send

46:45

it to people without the masking.

46:48

I think that's a pretty simple rule. I think

46:50

I think you pretty simply just don't do it.

46:53

Yeah, I've had some issues with that. I've

46:56

never had issues with that until I started this

46:58

podcast, because now my

47:00

mom and I share an

47:03

Instagram account, and now one gets a lot

47:05

of unsolicited dick picks, so many

47:07

dick picks, and some

47:09

of them are like they're masturbating in there.

47:13

They're doing it looks painful almost sometimes

47:15

and I want to right back, you're doing it's wrong. You

47:17

should be. You need to listen to

47:20

this certain episode that to do it

47:22

right. Frequently will send

47:24

them back his own picks.

47:26

Interesting. On only one

47:28

time we were we were requested

47:30

a pick. We just received a text

47:32

saying, hey, send me a pick. So I sent

47:35

to a pick of my uh ingrown

47:37

hair that's on my leg that was getting

47:39

inflamed. That's very nice.

47:42

I'm sure that that person that's exactly what they

47:44

meant when they say said a pick. I know exactly

47:46

what they meant. I actually it was me I want to come out

47:48

and say I was me a spare pick from

47:50

my side account, and what I was hoping you would

47:52

send me as a picture of your ingrown hair on your thigh.

47:55

Thank you for that. Camp. So

47:58

back to back to the question though regular

48:00

nudes. You're talking either relationship news or

48:02

you get a little flirty on Snapchat or on you

48:05

know, on whatever app you're on. What

48:07

are your thoughts on that? Where do they fall? Is it porn?

48:09

Is it a different thing? What's going on? You're

48:12

not gonna believe this, but I actually think it's not

48:14

a good idea to set nudes.

48:17

I am surprised. What is What is your reasoning?

48:20

Because you don't ever

48:22

know how you're gonna end up breaking up, that's

48:24

the part. And I know of couples that

48:27

the guy was really angry because

48:29

he found out his girlfriend was cheating, so he

48:31

took all the nudes and he put them all throughout Facebook,

48:34

even though Facebook took it down. But but you

48:36

can get vengeful people out there that take so

48:39

I'm a little concerned about that. If

48:41

you're gonna do it, cut the head off. No

48:43

head, that's a great advice. No

48:46

head, no face in the pictures. That's why they say

48:48

no face, no case like

48:51

it. I think they talked about robberies.

48:53

I think that's I think it's from a song where they're they're talking

48:55

about robbing somebody or something like that. But we'll

48:58

consider it in this in this episode as well. Yeah.

49:01

Interesting, interesting. I knew

49:03

of a situation where

49:05

this group of people are pulling

49:08

a train, as they call it, where you know, there's

49:10

a girl and she's having sex with a lot of different guys

49:13

and someone to say

49:16

pulling a train to two twenty

49:18

year old men. First, well, I think

49:20

it's called running train. Okay, you

49:22

get the idea of what it's talking. I don't know, but

49:25

I'm running away like a runaway train.

49:27

At the day it was pulling a train. What

49:29

can I say? It was not kind of running a train. The

49:31

concept of pulling in this scenario,

49:34

it seems hurtful and it seems, well,

49:36

it's what it was in the day. Catherine,

49:39

go look it up on Urban Dictionary.

49:43

Look that up. You will not like

49:45

what you find. Well, what my point is

49:47

that everyone's head was cut off

49:49

except this one guy and his

49:52

girlfriend saw the pictures. She's like one

49:54

ballistic because she sees the only head and then

49:56

it's her boyfriend. Well, I think

49:58

he deserved it at that point. I think he deserved

50:00

it at that point in his head being there because he was. If

50:03

they had in their rule book, like you said, Camp,

50:05

if they discussed that that you cannot do

50:07

that, then I think that I think that he

50:09

deserved that one. UM. But I

50:11

that's a very interesting rule, and I agree with it.

50:14

I do not send nude

50:16

pictures, but I do say if you are going

50:18

to, don't. If you have tattoos that are

50:21

specific, if you have a face that is

50:23

specific, which everybody does, any

50:25

specific scars, don't do

50:27

it. I agree. Unwise,

50:30

unwise, unwise. Okay, well let's talk about something

50:32

else now. UM. I just wanted to see where

50:35

you guys thoughts were on that. UM. But

50:37

now I want to get into something that I think is actually very

50:39

very important, because I want to talk about

50:41

ethical porn versus unethical porn, which

50:44

by that I mean porn that is legally made, It respects

50:46

the performers rights, it follows good working conditions,

50:49

shows both fantasy and real world sex, and

50:51

it celebrates sexual diversity.

50:53

There are, of course, issues in the porn industry.

50:55

Especially in amateur porn um

50:57

that are that includes sex, trafficking, exploitation

51:00

of performers. There's plenty

51:02

of places, unfortunately to find

51:04

both. Um more

51:07

places, fortunately, where you can find

51:09

consensual, ethical porn where everybody involved

51:11

is there by choice and happy

51:14

with the situation. How

51:16

can you, guys, if you have any advice, how

51:18

do we tell if porn is ethical? First

51:21

of all, how you're how you're consuming

51:23

it? So are you getting it from Red

51:26

Tube or like one of these massive

51:28

porn conglomerates

51:30

that basically strips porn

51:33

videos from paid sites

51:35

and provides it to people for free. So

51:38

if you're if you're getting it that way, it

51:40

might suggest that you're not doing something

51:43

ethically in just even consuming

51:45

it. Oh So there you're saying that there's an ethical

51:47

way to consume porn. Yes, not only

51:50

is there an ethical genre of porn

51:52

and in style of creating it, but consuming is

51:54

key. So are you pro if you watch

51:57

porn you should pay for it? Yes, interest,

52:00

even though my mom is that doesn't

52:02

practice that necessary? Car

52:06

What do you have to say for yourself at this point? Okay,

52:09

So we were on another podcast called

52:12

Girls on Porn I Believe and I was devastated

52:14

to learn that. I say,

52:16

I like this. I don't like the real, slick, well

52:19

made porn. I like just amateur

52:21

looking like like I like casting

52:23

couch. Okay, I'm gonna fess up. I like that. It's

52:26

the same damn the script every

52:28

time the producer tells the girls

52:30

that, you know, he's going to get them a job

52:33

working in the industry, and then they have sex.

52:36

I like that. Okay, I like the script.

52:38

I like how it goes. I like a little bit of deception,

52:40

even though you know that they know they're being recorded

52:42

and they're over eighteen. But now

52:44

the girls on porn said that is unethical, and

52:47

they told me that this was not a good thing. So now

52:50

I'm it could be unethical.

52:52

So now I'm feeling guilty if I watch it. So I

52:54

don't know, I'm I'm all messed up

52:56

about that whole thing. I think, Alex,

52:59

how you kind of described with ethical porners at the

53:01

beginning of this conversation, which is like, you

53:03

know, are people getting paid fairly? Is there is

53:05

pro diversity? Is it? Uh?

53:08

Is it really focused on both

53:10

people's pleasure even B

53:12

D S M. Even though it might seem like there's

53:14

pain involved. Both people need

53:16

to be describing pleasure from it, right, and

53:19

that's that's the key. Most of this is just male

53:21

oriented, made by males for

53:23

male consumption, and it really tends

53:26

to leave out women's pleasure if

53:28

it's heterosexual porn and so huge,

53:31

that's a huge component to this. You said it

53:33

all cam, that's perfect.

53:35

So there's there's as a kind of

53:38

an equal to side note of that. Um, there's

53:40

a movement happening to educate people that sex

53:42

work is work and helping sex workers

53:44

stay safe and healthy both mentally

53:46

and physically. Um, what would you say to somebody

53:48

who doesn't really understand why that's so important

53:51

or even doesn't understand the concept

53:53

of uh normalizing

53:55

and accepting that sex work is an absolutely

53:58

viable option for

54:00

for a profession see all this profession

54:02

ever, and

54:05

I'd say that today there

54:07

because the stigma around sex is being

54:09

removed, we can kind of pull back

54:11

the curtaincy, Oh, making

54:14

porn is not that far off from

54:16

making it like an intense HBO show,

54:18

you know, And why are you like,

54:21

what is there to hide? If this person wants to be

54:23

doing this with their body, let them do

54:25

this with their body, and if they're gonna do it, make sure

54:27

it's done safely. Don't let this

54:29

be something where you know they're

54:31

they're abused or they're uh mistreated

54:35

or not paid well for this. I mean massages

54:38

are legal, right, So what is

54:40

the is the difference the happy ending part, I

54:42

mean in the manipulation of genitals?

54:45

I mean people get massages, So

54:47

why shouldn't people pay to get more

54:49

than a massage? Hey, happy ending? What

54:51

what's the harm you mentioned earlier in

54:54

this podcast currently that you have some big

54:56

advice for me, and I want to close out this

54:58

podcast episode just

55:00

dissecting that advice that you have for

55:02

me, and I want to hear it Cam has to say about

55:05

it. I want to just say what I think about

55:07

it and let's just have it all out advice

55:09

party. Okay, So

55:11

I'll start by saying you've been taught

55:14

that you know there's a lot of negativity

55:16

surrounding sex, right

55:19

right, Well, not as much, not as much negativity,

55:21

but more so that it is it is more of a special

55:24

thing. It's a sacred thing between between

55:27

a husband and a wife in that capacity.

55:30

You're not a virgin, are you. I'm not a virgin

55:32

we've already had. My very first episode was like

55:34

breaking the news to anybody who I thought I

55:36

knew it. I was just teasing. Um,

55:40

you know, I just think like I said before,

55:42

that I agree and everything in moderation

55:44

is good. But the most important thing is that sex

55:47

is so complicated sometimes, and it's just

55:50

why why treated that? Like? Why can't it just be

55:52

fun? Sex is a fun activity.

55:55

We're one of the only species that has

55:58

sex just for fun. Most animals

56:00

just have it for procreation, but we have it

56:02

for fun along with I think the penguins or someone

56:04

like that. I know they stayed together forever.

56:06

I forgot swan. Somebody has sex

56:09

for fun. Maybe, Oh I know what's that

56:11

called the monkey? The bonobos?

56:13

They have sex for fun. But anyway,

56:15

my advice to you is have sex like

56:17

a banoba. No, I'm just kidding, um, just

56:20

just just have fun. I mean, it's

56:24

why are why do you think

56:26

older women are so desired by younger men? Hence

56:28

my book Games Day Cougars because

56:32

older women are teaching younger men

56:34

just lighten up about sex. They'd be adventuresome,

56:36

and they're they're making it so

56:39

that it's not a bad thing. But it's a

56:41

it's a good thing, and it's it's exciting, and

56:43

it's fun, and it's it uses creativity

56:46

and it makes it releases a lot

56:48

of great hormones, like oxytocin is

56:50

released. All these other seratoninum and

56:53

everything else are elevated, and all

56:55

these things are making you happier,

56:57

more comfortable person. So why is it

56:59

bad if it makes

57:01

you happy? It can't be. I'm

57:07

singing it to the professional here. That's a very

57:10

strong that's a very strong first piece

57:12

of advice. I really like that. I really like that, and I'm going

57:14

to take that to heart genuinely. Do

57:16

you have any other advice for me? Me

57:19

or Cam, either of you. I just enjoy

57:21

listening to you. Guys. Can I weigh in on this?

57:24

Because so my

57:27

mother is obviously very pro sex, and I

57:29

agree with her to a certain extent. Like,

57:32

you know, have sex. It's fun, it's

57:34

it's very pleasurable. However, it

57:37

also needs to be said that sex

57:40

is a very sacred thing because it could

57:42

be done in a very

57:44

painful way for both or

57:46

however many parties are involved. So

57:49

when I was getting when I was getting into sex,

57:52

when I was first having sex. They don't really

57:54

teach you like okay, they teach

57:56

you the basics like make sure to use a

57:58

condom, uh know, have

58:00

the safe sex talked um,

58:03

you know, see about birth control, but they do not teach

58:06

you about the emotional ramifications

58:08

that also come with it. So, depending

58:11

on who you're having sex with, they might share

58:14

a very different belief

58:16

system when it comes to sex. So when

58:18

someone said, when you're having sex to someone, they you might

58:20

be thinking it's a fun time, very casual,

58:23

and for the other person it might be

58:25

like this big event for them because it

58:27

is such an intimate personal experience,

58:30

and so you might be by having this

58:32

with them without having that conversation

58:34

first, you might be creating

58:37

a situation where one or both of you are

58:39

going to experience extreme pain down the line.

58:42

So I actually do think it is a sacred experience

58:45

because it is personally a little

58:47

bit about this. This is a constant

58:49

conflict between us. It's some but I

58:51

don't think it's not sacred. But

58:54

it doesn't have to be that way if both if

58:56

both people think of it as a casual thing.

58:58

So it seems it seems to me that it is more about

59:00

having that conversation beforehand, making your

59:03

your expectations or your

59:05

view of the your intentions of the situation.

59:08

Thank you currently very clear so that it

59:10

doesn't involve you know, it doesn't involve

59:12

differing feelings where one person

59:15

says sionara and the other person is

59:17

heartbroken. But

59:19

that being said, even when you have the conversation, one

59:21

of them could have more feelings to the other. It could

59:24

happen, and I think that that isn't

59:26

what Camp's problem is. He's fearful of

59:28

that happening. You don't need to. I don't

59:31

know if it's necessarily fearful. I don't think

59:33

it's a fearful thing. It's it's more that he's he's

59:35

he's very, very sensitive to what other

59:37

people may have intended emotionally

59:40

for the situation. Pisces

59:42

to no, I'm an Aquarius.

59:45

Oh like Oh,

59:48

I have no by the way, no idea what any

59:50

of that means. I know that I know that I was born

59:52

in February sixteenth, and that's what that means for me.

59:55

Well, the aquarians are it's

59:57

an air sign. This is a good this is a good way

59:59

to end it. Do aquarians mean in

1:00:01

this? What is this interesting? Interesting

1:00:04

is that they care.

1:00:06

Acquariance care more about like the creating

1:00:10

greater good than they may in terms

1:00:12

of their own little intimate relationships.

1:00:14

Interesting, you love to talk. I'm

1:00:17

a libra. I love to talk, and I have queer

1:00:19

as a queer as also in my chart,

1:00:21

So I'm very airy. In case you guys didn't realize

1:00:23

it, you definitely air it all out there for us.

1:00:25

You don't all out You're

1:00:28

you're you're ready. I'm going to get you there that

1:00:30

that's we're gonna We're gonna work on Alex for

1:00:32

this one. Oh gosh, well, I would be. I would

1:00:34

love to be a guest on your podcast when

1:00:36

it comes to if you want to have a guest

1:00:38

who has no knowledge about the topics at

1:00:40

hand, we would love it. Are you kidding me? We've

1:00:43

had people with a lot less uh

1:00:45

knowledge than you. Trust me, You're okay, Well,

1:00:48

you're a sneaky freak. We call our fans, say

1:00:52

that's our family. You

1:00:55

can get that embarrassed

1:00:57

and honored. I'm honored and embarrassed.

1:01:00

We're gonna freak sneaky,

1:01:03

freaking merch. Karen Lye Kim,

1:01:05

thank you so much for coming on the show. It guys, if

1:01:07

you want to hear more of this, make sure you go

1:01:09

and check out their podcast. It is

1:01:12

it's it's a good time and

1:01:14

I've had a great time talking with you guys. So

1:01:16

thank you for you know, educating

1:01:19

me, encouraging me, um

1:01:21

and testing my limits, because you guys definitely

1:01:24

did that today. So makes you, guys go and listen to

1:01:26

sex Talk with my Mom. Actually, I'm not going

1:01:28

to say that this is our time for our shameless

1:01:30

self promo at the end of every show. I like giving

1:01:32

you some time to just go all out and

1:01:34

have at it. So um, if you guys

1:01:36

want to take it away, wait, can

1:01:38

I just say quickly like we've We've done

1:01:40

a ton of interviews on other podcasts, and

1:01:43

this is by far the most professional

1:01:46

and fun interview I think we've ever done. Thank

1:01:49

you. So I want to thank you for having

1:01:51

thank you for having appreciate

1:01:53

it. You are welcome back any time you want, especially

1:01:56

with the stories that you have.

1:01:58

We just ran out. We

1:02:00

just spilled them all out here and there's no more to come.

1:02:03

I love it, all right, We'll give me give me some shameless

1:02:05

promo. If you want those sneaky

1:02:07

stories, just check out sex

1:02:09

Talk with my Mom. Wherever you're listening to this

1:02:11

podcast, you can follow us on Instagram

1:02:14

at sex Talk with my Mom, on Twitter at

1:02:16

sex Talk Podcasts. And we

1:02:19

have a patron page if you want to support this mission

1:02:21

of opening that conversation around sex

1:02:24

patreon dot com slash sex Talk with my

1:02:26

Mom. And if you want to see some really fun

1:02:29

videos, go to my TikTok at Karen Poder.

1:02:31

I love that. Yes, I'm

1:02:34

going to follow you TikTok right now. I

1:02:36

have I have um a couple of books,

1:02:39

Cougar's Guide to Getting your Ass back out there

1:02:41

and Fuck games Day Cougars. It's f star

1:02:44

c K Fuck games Day Cougars.

1:02:46

They bought on Amazon, and I think that you guys

1:02:48

will enjoy it. It's specially you, Alex.

1:02:51

I'm gonna I'm ordering them right now. I

1:02:53

need to figure I need to figure this very

1:02:55

soon. Oh lord, my girlfriend is not happy

1:02:57

at that. Common Well,

1:03:00

guys, I really appreciate you. You know

1:03:02

you can find me at alex Iono on all

1:03:04

things. Apparently I am a sneaky freak.

1:03:06

So we're going to figure a little bit more about that

1:03:08

later. You for listening to this podcast

1:03:11

and then just enjoying this time. Make

1:03:13

sure you give us a rating. Please, that is

1:03:15

how we grow. I'm so excited

1:03:18

for you to get this podcast and

1:03:20

uh and we'll talk to you next time. Please.

1:03:27

We really want you to get the help you need, So if

1:03:29

you need help, please seek independent advice

1:03:31

from a competent healthcare or mental health professional.

1:03:34

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1:03:36

those of the podcast author or individuals participating

1:03:38

in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I

1:03:40

heart Media or its employees. This podcast

1:03:42

should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,

1:03:45

counseling, or therapy. Listening to the podcast

1:03:47

does not established dr patient relationship with

1:03:49

hosts or guests of alex Iona Let's Get Into

1:03:51

It or I Heart Media. No guarantee is

1:03:53

given regarding the accuracy of any statements

1:03:55

or opinions made on this podcast. Well,

1:03:58

if that's a doozy.