0:00

My name is Alex, and I voted. But now

0:02

what do I do? No, alright,

0:07

alright, We'll be alright

0:10

forever. No,

0:14

alright, alright,

0:19

alright forever. I'm

0:22

gonna tell you guys my story about uncertainty, because

0:25

that's kind of how I feel right now, and

0:27

that's kind of how I think a lot of people have felt for the last

0:29

four years. Um. But before we get into how

0:31

it's been for the last four years, I'll tell you guys how the last

0:34

few days have been. Um. Today it

0:36

is November six, Uh,

0:39

it is Friday, Um, the Friday

0:41

after election day, which was now

0:43

four days ago, and it's

0:45

been an interesting one. And UH, for

0:47

the last four days, I've been wildly uncertain.

0:50

I've been in the studio writing, and out

0:52

of the four sessions I've had, I've written one

0:54

song. Uh. Most of them have just

0:56

been all of us talking about what the

0:58

hell the world's gonna look like. Um, they're

1:00

still counting ballots at this point. Uh.

1:03

Nevada announced that they're not going to be done until

1:05

Saturday Sunday. UM, we've

1:07

had a few swing states already,

1:09

flip, We've had just it's

1:11

just been an insane amount of time Um,

1:14

but it's been really really interesting for me because I

1:17

really don't know kind

1:19

of what's next. Like I feel like I'm

1:21

playing a video game and I and were and there's

1:24

a really really hard level and

1:26

um, you know, I'm not going to speak too soon, but

1:28

we potentially beat that hard level and

1:31

you celebrate because you beat the level, but then now you got the rest

1:33

of the game to play. And uh, and I think where

1:35

I'm not, where I'm at now is trying to figure out,

1:38

um, what the game is

1:41

that's next or what the next level is. Um,

1:43

you know, obviously knock

1:46

on wood. Again, I don't want to speak too soon, but Joe

1:48

Biden becoming president doesn't mean that racial

1:51

injustice is all solved. And it doesn't

1:53

mean that um my l

1:55

g B t Q plus you know, brothers,

1:57

sisters and non gender conforming family member

2:00

is are are completely uh

2:02

you know, protected in every state and every

2:04

city. And it doesn't mean that all of the problems

2:06

are solved, especially with our environment,

2:09

but it is, as it is potentially

2:11

again a win that I think that we need to to

2:13

celebrate. But I think most

2:16

of the time, I have a great story right now,

2:18

I'm I'm wildly uncertain, and that got

2:20

me thinking, how do we figure out

2:22

the next right thing? No,

2:27

what's up, y'all? Welcome to let's get into it. I'm

2:29

alex Iono and this is our podcast

2:31

that is post election day,

2:33

but not necessarily post election.

2:36

We are in a weird, a weird

2:38

situation. Uh. And and when I say

2:40

we, it means I have I have the

2:42

help of two very very

2:45

smart people and and I'm gonna introduce

2:47

you to them right now. First, we got hip hop artist

2:49

also a poet, political activists and

2:51

m c co host of the Red Couch podcast

2:54

with his wife. Dr Alma Sarrego is a petty

2:56

and you may know him from shows like Behind the Police

2:58

with Robert Evans, the One and only propaganda

3:01

prop What's up? Man? What what? What?

3:03

What Up? What a day? Oh man? What a

3:06

day? And we can we'll talk about it a

3:08

bit, but first I want to introduce our other, our

3:10

other guests. She is the creator and the host of

3:12

the hit podcast Mega and is regularly

3:15

featured on a p m S Live from Here.

3:17

She's an alumnus of the Second City main

3:20

Stage in Chicago, as well as the founding

3:22

member of the long standing improv group The

3:24

Reckoning. She also, a fun fact if

3:26

you're a drunk history fan, holds the record

3:28

for the highest blood alcohol on one of

3:30

the seasons, and that she appeared, and

3:33

also might hold the record for most

3:35

tears in the previous season,

3:38

which I don't even know if we give

3:40

trophies, if we if we pat on

3:42

the back or if we I don't know. But

3:45

she is the also one and only Holly

3:47

Laurent. Holly, how are you so

3:49

good? So uncertain? Just like

3:52

you,

3:55

you know how when you're walking around

3:57

town and like there's a sports bar

4:00

that kind of like erupts at the same time everyone

4:02

starts screaming because like someone

4:04

kicked a goal and you're like, whoa, what happened?

4:06

Everybody's excited. I keep thinking we're going

4:09

to hear that any minute about the election

4:11

of like is everybody screaming? Is it

4:13

good? And and and like I

4:15

had mentioned, not we're not going to try and lie about

4:17

what day it is today because we are wildly

4:19

uncertain it is Friday, the day after or

4:21

the first Friday after election day. Um. We

4:23

have Catherine um

4:26

my producer here, who has got one

4:28

ear with us in one ear on the on

4:30

news right now, and she's gonna let us know if anything

4:32

crazy happens during this episode recording.

4:37

But we all three of us,

4:39

I'm excited that I'm not the

4:41

only one who's uncertain. I think that's the basis

4:43

of my whole podcast in general, is like making people

4:45

feel like whatever they're feeling are going through, they're

4:47

not the only person. Um. And I'm

4:50

excited to talk about you know, everything

4:52

about that. We're gonna talk about first, Um,

4:54

prop you and I are gonna be talking about kind of living

4:56

with indecision and living in and kind

4:58

of navigating lie life when when you don't

5:00

really know what's what's coming next. Uh.

5:02

And then after that, Holly, you and I are going

5:05

to be talking about reckoning with the future

5:07

pun intended. Um. And

5:09

then lastly, all three of us are going to be talking about

5:11

the soul of the nation. I think it's a very interesting

5:14

time. And Um, the numbers

5:17

were staggering in a great way and staggering in

5:19

a in a sad way in terms of how many people

5:21

voted, but at the same time also the

5:24

amount of people that's still kind of support um,

5:27

you know, Donald Trump. This is a very clear podcast,

5:29

and I always talk about where I stand. But before we

5:31

get into that stuff, UM, I want to ask

5:33

a question that I ask all of my guests,

5:35

especially now, especially

5:38

now that we are past the election.

5:40

Um, what are you doing this week to improve

5:43

yourself? This week? I

5:45

have voted. I

5:48

voted this week, and that's what I did to

5:50

to better myself. I actually had sent in my vallot

5:52

a while ago, but because this

5:55

is election week, I figured that would be the best thing

5:57

for me. You know, I think voting while

5:59

I vote it in the past, this this

6:01

election and this vote that I've put

6:03

in, and as we've seen in the numbers that have been

6:06

insanely close, Um,

6:09

every person's vote matters. And so it felt

6:11

it felt a lot different, a lot better, and a lot

6:14

it felt very powerful to vote this

6:16

week. And so I get to proudly say

6:19

that that's what I did to better myself

6:21

this week. I know it's kind of a cop out,

6:23

but I think it makes me feel good.

6:25

Um, Holly, do you got something for me? I

6:28

was actually patting myself on the back yesterday

6:30

because I was like, damn, I made my bed,

6:32

I got dressed and bathed today,

6:35

and that's there we

6:37

go. That's a big pandemic win.

6:39

That's a pandemic win right there. Yeah,

6:42

and um, I think in general,

6:45

the word for me right now

6:47

that I'm clinging to is

6:49

it's it's somewhere between listen

6:52

and like channel. I feel

6:54

like as artists we are kind of

6:56

supposed to be like radios

6:59

right now, like putting up antenna's and just

7:01

channeling and like the wisdom

7:03

the way the patients. I don't

7:05

know. I I do t M. I practiced,

7:08

I practice the specific TM

7:10

meditation and that's the only way I've really

7:12

been able to get dressed and make my bed this

7:14

week. We'll look at

7:16

that. That's a win. That's a win for sure. Prop

7:18

What do you got for us? Yeah? I think

7:21

for me, uh, similarly, like

7:23

just holding to my like

7:25

daily rituals and traditions to

7:27

like keep the discipline

7:29

of like waking up, doing

7:32

some sort of mindful meditation, some

7:34

sort of breathing exercise, working

7:37

out yoga,

7:39

like just knowing it ain't got to be pretty, you know what I'm

7:41

saying, Like I'm not the most you know, you know,

7:43

you know Instagram videos trying

7:46

to trying to downward dog out this mug, but uh,

7:50

making sure like making myself

7:52

despite what's happening in the world, be like

7:54

no, you can't break rhythm. So I

7:56

think for me, which is like new you know what I'm saying,

7:58

would be like usually like when when when

8:01

it's like you gear up for like the stressful

8:04

moment, and then when the stress comes, like you forget all

8:06

your training, you know I'm saying, So like, ah,

8:08

for me, it was like, yo, this is the first time I

8:10

got stuck with it in like kept

8:12

that calm you know what I'm saying, and

8:15

made myself like y'all remember

8:17

your remember your training. You know what I'm saying,

8:19

right, right, So I think for me, like that's that's

8:21

the win this week, man. I mean

8:23

that's a major when I think it's specifically on

8:25

what you had just said in terms of um

8:28

sticking to your you know, sticking to what you know is

8:31

right, whether it's waking up early, whether it's getting

8:33

your meditation, whether it's doing yoga, whether it's

8:35

eating healthy, any of those things. Especially

8:38

in times right now and we're we're obviously going to talk

8:40

about it, I think it's very important to stick to your

8:42

metaphorical guns and uh

8:45

and and really you know, hold true

8:47

to what you know makes you, you know, the most productive

8:49

and successful version of yourself.

8:52

All right, let's let's talk about some uncertainty.

8:55

Holly, We'll be with you in just a bit,

8:57

but prop um, Yeah, let's

8:59

get into it. How

9:01

have you been processing I mean, you had mentioned um

9:03

already that you you are. You know, it's

9:05

very uncertain times right now, and I think

9:08

all of America is sitting

9:10

in this uncertainty. How have you been

9:12

processing? Um, those those

9:14

nerves, those feelings mask good

9:17

man. Uh

9:19

yeah, I think of a lot of things. I think

9:21

that, like how

9:24

I'm doing with it. You know, I'm

9:26

like the election updates. You know, I'm saying like you

9:28

gotta check every hour you feel me like because

9:31

maybe right maybe an hour ago, I

9:33

was like, are you kidding me? I'm floating,

9:36

bro, Like I'm in a state of nirvana, you know

9:38

what I'm saying. But I think, like, overall,

9:41

a few things that I do is I

9:43

always try to, like, I mean, I'm a history

9:45

nerd, you know, I always try to like couch

9:49

whatever moment I'm having in

9:51

the context of like a longer history

9:54

and try to remember that, like, Okay,

9:57

when has it ever been certain? You

9:59

say it? When if we when if we ever

10:01

known what was going on? You know what I'm saying, right

10:04

when? You know when? And then like if

10:06

y'all can't see this on the pod, but y'all in this video

10:09

or can't tell by my voice in case you ain't noticed,

10:11

I'm black, you know I'm saying, so like when

10:13

when has it been peaceful for black America?

10:16

You feel me so like me trying to

10:18

couch that that not as an excuse, but

10:20

as like a rudder if you will that like,

10:23

Okay, this

10:25

isn't any sort of aberration. You

10:29

know. We make treasure

10:31

out of trash. That's what we do all the time. Um,

10:34

we shouldn't have to live this way,

10:36

but here we are, you know what I'm saying. So

10:38

I think that for me, that's one thing I

10:41

try to remember. And then just like you

10:43

know, keep a uh

10:46

you know, a gratitude lists of

10:48

like things that I'm like actually

10:51

thankful for even in the midst of this chaos,

10:53

you know what I'm saying. That like you know, was and

10:56

and it's as as I got older, like saying

10:59

things like, yo, you have a roof over your

11:01

head. You know when you're a kid,

11:04

you like Okay, great, dad

11:06

saying like, yeah, there's a house. I mean you

11:08

live in it too, Like it's fine, you know what I'm saying. But

11:11

like now as an adult being

11:13

like, dang, God, like our

11:15

economy said, we could have lost we could

11:18

have lost our place to live, you know what I mean,

11:20

And like, dang, what would I do? How would I feed

11:22

my children? Like like I'm grateful

11:24

that that didn't happen, you know, absolutely,

11:27

So yeah, for me, it's like, you know,

11:30

just like I said, like couching in history, kind

11:32

of remembering that like we

11:36

never really had certainty. You know. I'm

11:38

I'm so glad that you I'm so glad that you said

11:40

you're bringing up history because that's something

11:42

that I've kind of you know, I talked to a bunch of people

11:45

and and whether it's somebody's like, well, don't forget

11:47

like the two thousand election was really close to and

11:49

they we're talking about history, and

11:51

and there's a balance because like you mentioned, when

11:54

have when has there ever been you

11:56

know, certainty and it's fullness. But

11:59

also on the other end of that is like we are so

12:01

insanely unprecedented right now. Like I remember

12:03

seeing a video that was posted last

12:05

night of George

12:07

Bush Senior giving his

12:09

speech after losing the election and saying,

12:12

you know, I that's the American way,

12:14

It's what makes American beautiful. I'm I'm,

12:16

me and my team are going to do everything we can to

12:18

make this flow of in this transition of power.

12:21

And you really start thinking like that's I think

12:24

not to play Devil's Advocate, and I probably

12:26

will most of this episode because wild

12:28

was certain but like, while

12:31

there is like, yeah, there's never been uncertainty, but there's also

12:33

been There's also never been somebody who is if

12:36

everything continues on the trajectory that has been

12:38

on the last twenty four hours, there's never been

12:40

a squatter in the White House, you know. So

12:42

it's like it's

12:49

there's an old reference, Like I mean, it's

12:51

a little bit it's more like my sister's

12:54

jen. I'm the youngest in my family, but like

12:56

in my sister's Jin, the like

12:58

the first generation of video games,

13:02

you only programmed a

13:04

certain amount of space, and there

13:06

would be a time that like your little your little

13:08

you know, bit map like eight big character

13:11

would go to a place where there's no graphics,

13:14

and it was like because they didn't make they

13:16

didn't have the memory for

13:18

that, graphics didn't go that part. Why, you

13:20

know what I'm saying. So you're just like where You're

13:23

like, I don't know how my character got

13:25

out here, but there's nothing over here, yo

13:27

said. So in a lot of ways, we were like, Yo,

13:29

we off the map now, like we really

13:32

are. We just got everybody's just gotta start

13:34

painting some new stuff and

13:37

spirals and circles. So don't

13:39

get me wrong, Like we definitely

13:41

off the map, you know what I'm saying. Um,

13:44

And that said, I

13:46

mean America itself

13:51

was off the map, Like you know what I'm saying. There

13:53

was like when I when I think about the idea of like

13:56

a president in general, like if you would

13:58

right now have to say, I need to make

14:00

up out of the clear blue sky,

14:04

a new version of

14:07

the head of a government. I just

14:09

make one up, you know what I'm

14:11

saying. Like it's like we

14:13

are that's where, but that's where we were

14:16

when we started the country. It was just like, what

14:18

is it? What is the president? There's no such thing

14:20

there was, There's no such thing as a president. So

14:23

we were like, well, we don't know what this is. We

14:25

don't know how to pick him. How do we not make him

14:28

just a monarch? Well he's not a prime minister. Well

14:30

he's not. It's not the church, was

14:32

it the state? Like? What is this

14:34

thing? So like even being off the

14:36

map, We've been off the map before,

14:39

you know what I'm saying. So I'm

14:42

not saying that that's any comfort.

14:44

You know what I'm saying, Like, it don't make me feel

14:47

better, It don't ease the anxiety again.

14:49

It just but it like for me,

14:52

it's like there's a map

14:54

for being off the map, if I can mix my metaphor

14:56

you know, yeah, absolutely. Um

14:59

So I think now again, back to back

15:01

to history now, because I do have some some

15:03

questions that I really think that you might have great answers

15:05

to. Um. I think

15:08

I rewind the clock back to when Obama

15:11

was president, right, and I think a

15:13

lot of us kind of we were just celebrating.

15:15

It was all good. Everybody was chilling. We kind

15:17

of were in this mode of like, don't worry, Obama's

15:20

got it, we got this, don't worry about it. And

15:22

I think what actually happened, Um,

15:24

you know, I think it really kind of

15:27

muddied the importance of voting still

15:29

and I think not enough progressives voted in two

15:32

thousen and two twelve, and

15:34

then we kind of spent the next six years

15:36

hitting roadblocks which ended up of course

15:38

here in twenty or not here. But they're in

15:41

with you know, this new guy in the White House.

15:44

Do you think that if, um,

15:46

if Biden, if the if the path continues

15:48

on its on its way now and Biden becomes

15:50

the president, do you think that he will be able

15:53

to make more progress or

15:55

do you think that we are you know where where

15:57

do you where do you stand with that? That's a good

15:59

question. And I think like the

16:02

the the reality of like yeah again,

16:04

like we're off the map, so like predictions

16:07

are silly, you know. Uh,

16:09

but I will say

16:11

this, like yeah,

16:15

it's hard to say, like when you have someone

16:17

like a firebrand, just like whatever

16:23

the hell Trump was, like the

16:26

to be able to like survey

16:28

the effects on our democracy.

16:31

Like I think we may not even know for years

16:34

the effects of what he's

16:36

done to our democracy. Um.

16:39

And I also know that like

16:43

no one president is the answer,

16:45

you know what I'm saying. Um. I think going

16:47

back to what you said, like we were lulled into

16:50

this like superman, Um.

16:53

Sort of complex, like we

16:55

got lazy, you know, UH as a country

16:57

with Obama because he was so smooth, because

16:59

he was so well spoken, and even

17:02

like I even you know, as a black man, I'm like,

17:04

I'll always give him a pass like I can't help

17:06

it. But at the same time, I'm like, there

17:08

were decisions I think he made, like in our

17:10

geopolitics that I was like, man, that's not I

17:13

don't know fam like his some of his some of

17:15

his uh immigration issues

17:17

I'm married at first gin Latina. I was like, yo,

17:20

you know what I'm saying, Like you're kind of hard hard

17:22

on our immigrants, you know what I'm saying. Like, So

17:25

there was some stuff that like, even

17:28

in me being happy with who he was, I felt like

17:30

his moral compass was

17:32

was Um was great,

17:34

But I honestly don't think we're ever

17:36

going to go back to brunching, Like yeah, no,

17:38

I mean, I think this is It

17:40

reminds me. It reminds me of an interaction

17:43

I had with UM with somebody who commented

17:45

on one of my voting posts, and

17:47

basically it said, you know, there's no point

17:49

in voting for Joe Biden. There's no point in voting

17:52

for for Trump, because like, neither

17:54

of them are going to make a difference, and and we

17:56

might as well just keep Trump because at least he's doing stuff,

17:58

and he had, you know, kind of had that whole stance. He's like, I don't

18:00

like him, but we might as well stay. And I really

18:03

like instead of kind of bashing

18:05

or going back, and like, I just messaged him and I was just

18:08

like, listen, man, like we gotta start

18:10

little by little. Like I I personally, I

18:12

am of the end. Maybe I'm a little bit too

18:15

cynical, but like I agree with you in the sense of,

18:17

like I don't think one president is going to make a

18:19

huge difference, which is why I think even if he

18:21

wins, I still feel uncertain, which is why I'm

18:24

doing this episode, you know. But I think

18:26

my own personal view is if

18:28

we keep voting the

18:31

same way that we voted and hopefully

18:33

it pans out, But if we keep

18:36

voting the way that we voted in and

18:38

we vote with our hearts, and that was something that I said

18:40

a lot leading up to election day, is like voting

18:43

with your heart, not with your party, not with

18:45

your family, not with your friends, but with your

18:47

heart. And I think if we keep

18:49

doing that, then we can start making

18:51

real progress. And I think a lot of us learned that.

18:54

Yeah. I feel like one of my one of my principles

18:56

I always try to say is like I vote with

18:59

Mike, my neighbors,

19:01

uh, best interests,

19:04

you know what I'm saying. Like, so I try to think of like who

19:06

is this, what is this? Who's going

19:08

to be the most oppressed in this in this

19:10

decision? And I try to think of whatever

19:13

it is and put it, put myself in their shoes and

19:15

be like, how would I vote if

19:17

this was going to cause pain to someone I love?

19:19

You know what I'm saying, and kind of try to like use

19:22

that as like my moral compass, but also say

19:24

this man even specifically to that, to

19:26

that um, to that post.

19:29

Uh. I think of

19:31

like what's

19:34

what's what's a good example. If you're gonna

19:36

make a chicken dinner. Okay,

19:42

yes, you're gonna make a chicken dinner. Uh,

19:45

the absolute very least

19:47

you can do is cook the chicken.

19:51

You gotta cook it. Okay, that's

19:54

that's voting. Now It's

19:57

gonna be some bland ass chicken if

19:59

you don't season it up, Like can you put

20:01

some like salt and pepper and some peprika

20:03

dog. Like you

20:06

understand what I'm saying, Like, yeah, like you

20:08

gotta like you gotta season the chicken. You

20:10

feel me, And that's your activism, that's you

20:13

continuing to participate in

20:15

the process and and learning and going

20:17

too things. That's so like and like, which

20:19

is what you're saying, is like, it's the long game.

20:21

You gotta keep seasoning his chicken. Now that

20:24

said, you can't just season

20:26

chicken and then not cook it right,

20:28

so you need both

20:31

so exactly to that point. You know, Um,

20:34

if Biden wins, there's a lot of uh, there's

20:36

a lot of things that he clearly wants to do in

20:38

support of, you know, in support of the Black

20:40

Lives Matter movement, in support of LGBT plus

20:42

rights, in supportive healthcare, and support of um

20:45

climate change or not in supportive climate

20:48

in fight we feel you climate change. You gotta

20:50

get me. Um,

20:52

I'm not gonna pin every you know, I'm not

20:54

gonna pin every different

20:56

type of person in every group and every

20:58

oppressed people. Um for

21:00

you to answer. But I think more specifically, you

21:02

know, I think I still I

21:05

still feel like we are not even close

21:08

to the middle of the fight for

21:10

racial equality and for really

21:13

kind of uprooting and getting

21:15

rid of the systemic racism.

21:18

Even though now we've won, and you know, like that

21:20

was kind of like the biggest thing, you know, I think I kept

21:22

replaying in my mind killer Mike saying, you

21:24

know, beat him up in the polls, and everybody's saying, if

21:26

you want to get back, don't loot stores, like go

21:29

and vote. And now we've run that as

21:32

a black man, as somebody who is you

21:34

know, woke in every

21:36

you know, in every facet. What's

21:39

something that you would recommend for allies,

21:41

um, to the Black Lives Matter movement specifically,

21:44

UM, but to just allies of of

21:47

of all of the you know, and

21:49

not to group everybody together, but all of those oppressed

21:52

groups of people. What's what's what would

21:54

you recommend for the for the allies more specifically,

21:57

if we could have a good outcome of this man,

21:59

that's good. And I think like there's

22:02

a lot of like, you know, kind

22:04

of listening and trust us, you know what I'm saying

22:06

that, like, you know, we kind of been in there,

22:09

uh, and usually bear the brunt

22:12

of the pain and

22:14

then also lead the charge in fixing

22:16

you know what I'm saying. Um,

22:18

So I think a little bit

22:20

of like yeah, like like

22:23

trust us, you know what I'm saying, and um,

22:25

and trust us when it's like when

22:28

it's not in style, you

22:30

know, when it's gonna cost you a little bit, like

22:33

like trust us, you know what I'm saying. Um, We've

22:37

constantly are calling America

22:40

too to be its best version

22:43

of itself. Like that's that's the attitude

22:45

of justice work is like, Yo,

22:47

you made promises. I'm just I'm gonna demand

22:50

you to be what you said you were going to be. You know what

22:52

I'm saying. I'm not gonna let off the gas.

22:54

Um. I think you know this

22:57

isn't the question you asked me. But like conversely,

23:00

I think what we can do

23:02

as black people is

23:06

while like you're kind of having to hold

23:08

two ideas at the same time, right, So like

23:10

holding the idea of the specificity

23:13

of just the anti black sentiment

23:15

across the board, that there is a specificity

23:18

about the prejudice of being dark skinned,

23:20

black slave descendant. There's there's something very

23:23

specific about that. That said,

23:26

understanding interlocking

23:28

systems, how our

23:31

freedom is is intertwined

23:33

with the freedoms of

23:35

the immigrant, the l g B t Q, the trans

23:37

community, and how like all of

23:39

those things play into a

23:41

collective freedom, um

23:45

and just and remembering that like you

23:47

know, I I oftentimes

23:50

remember this in a in a unfortunately

23:53

like these are things that have to course correct, often in a very

23:55

like cynical way, to be like, um,

23:58

oh, they're gonna come for you too, you bro, liked

24:01

you? Don't you think

24:03

you different? You know what I'm saying, Like they're gonna

24:05

come for you, you know, um,

24:08

rather than saying like no, bro, listen, it's

24:10

gonna crush you too, like from a more loving

24:12

perspective, you know what I'm saying. Um,

24:15

So I think while again like I can't

24:17

stress this enough, like not abandoning

24:19

the uniqueness of the specificity of

24:21

being of anti black sentiment

24:24

at the same time understand that like yo,

24:26

the liberation of all oppressed people,

24:29

you know, is a part of our own liberation

24:31

too, absolutely so yeah, so

24:33

I just think that like what I would ask for allies.

24:35

It's like yo, just like man, trust like like

24:37

trust me, trust me Joe saying

24:40

like we we no. It's

24:42

it's a great point. And if

24:44

you if you if you aren't familiar with Problems podcasts.

24:47

UM. You talk a lot about ally ship like

24:49

that, and I think these next few days they're

24:52

either going to be incredible and we're

24:54

gonna be like, Wow, this is awesome, or they're gonna be

24:56

like a letdown and we're gonna be like, Okay, let's keep

24:59

going. And I think not in a bad

25:01

way, but I really hope that either way,

25:03

that it goes people

25:06

of of every walk of life, whether you're an ally

25:08

or whether you are in the middle of it. I

25:11

hope that we all feel the fire

25:13

that we felt, you know that. I hope

25:15

we still all and not even feel, but still all have that

25:17

fire that we've felt since June three

25:20

or or you know, since since

25:23

we've started, you know, since the uprising

25:25

of you know, the Black Lives Matter movement and the

25:27

fight against racial injustice UM

25:30

started. I just I really hope no matter what

25:32

that happens, UM,

25:34

probably you are again

25:37

insanely well rounded, and by the way, you're academic.

25:39

I want to point that out. You are academic, but

25:43

outside of the election, you're an artist, you know,

25:46

and as as a fellow artist, uncertainty

25:48

isn't something that only happens every

25:51

four years. During the election. I think, especially

25:53

when you are an entrepreneur, whether you

25:55

are fighting for whether you're going to school even

25:57

and you're trying to get a job, uncertain

26:00

t runs rampant through life, right.

26:02

Yeah. The biggest, the biggest

26:04

quote that I think of is Winston Churchill's

26:06

um quota saying like, if you're going through hell,

26:09

keep going and uh and and

26:11

that's something that really is always stuck with me every

26:13

time I'm going through a hard time. Um,

26:15

but what advice do you have for anybody outside

26:17

of politics? Because by the time this air is it could

26:19

be the airing on Tuesday, and like you

26:21

never know that everything to be different by Tuesday.

26:24

But what's your advice for for uncertainty

26:26

in general? People going through that, dealing with that?

26:29

Um and and and what would you what

26:31

would you give to the listener who is still uncertain

26:33

about things that aren't politics. Yeah,

26:36

that's man, that's good man. Um

26:39

to try to not I'm gonna try to synthesize it, because

26:42

yeah, like being an artist, you you just gather

26:44

so many different like small

26:47

moments and try to put them into one one

26:49

thing to be like, yo, this is this is

26:51

it. You know what I'm saying, um,

26:54

But I think ultimately it's like you

26:56

keep your feet under you, you know what I'm saying, You keep

26:58

the sky above you. You do your best to

27:01

like you worry about what's in your what's

27:03

in your arms, reach, what

27:05

is available to you. Nipsey,

27:08

Um, you know got rest his soul. Nipsey would

27:10

talk about like his

27:13

movement was always like I used what

27:15

was available to me when we when we had

27:18

a closet and a

27:20

USB mic, we made albums with a closet

27:22

and the USB MIC. When we were able

27:24

to get like a back room studio, we used

27:26

the back room studio. And then we went to

27:29

Universal and then and now we're there.

27:31

You know, we use what's about. We don't worry about. We don't

27:33

worry about more than what we have. We don't

27:35

worry about what we don't have it at, what we don't

27:37

have access to we can.

27:39

We we worry about what's in our hands. So I think

27:41

that like as an artist, you know,

27:43

as an entrepreneur, like look, man, if

27:46

there's no venture capitalist knocking on your

27:48

door, cool Trump

27:51

said, it's fine, use

27:53

what you got, you know, um,

27:56

and then like just you

27:59

know, to get woo woo

28:01

on you, like just the

28:03

outcome, the outcomes

28:06

out of your hands somehow. The outcome is

28:08

it's divine, it's magic, it's

28:11

you know, it's something it's not material,

28:14

you know what I mean. So I just think when you when

28:16

you focus on that, on that thing, that's

28:18

like there's no math

28:20

for for me. That's

28:22

where like the anxiety starts happening, you know

28:24

what I'm saying. Where I'm like, I'm trying to control something

28:26

that like it's just not on there's

28:31

it's just not empirical. There's no

28:33

there's no material for this, you know what I'm saying.

28:35

So I just think like when you let things

28:38

that are immaterial, just let them be that,

28:40

Let let divine be divine. Let let

28:42

the magic be the magic, and you just you

28:45

again, keep your feet under you, do

28:48

what's available to you and rest

28:50

at rest, your rest your head at night knowing

28:53

that you gave a

28:55

dent and

28:58

and even if you didn't have a hundred percent, all you have left.

29:01

Cool. Bro.

29:04

That is a perfect way for us

29:06

to end this segment, because that's what I think

29:08

is the is the you know, the kryptonite

29:11

to uncertainty is like

29:14

you said, keeping your keeping your feet under you,

29:16

the sky above you, and just keep

29:18

on going through it. We're gonna take a quick break when

29:20

we come back. Um, Holly's gonna hop on.

29:22

Prop Thank you so much. We'll talk with you in a bit,

29:24

my pleasure. We'll be right back. We

29:27

are back. This is let's get into it, Holly.

29:30

We are here with you right now. Um,

29:32

we are reckoning with the future.

29:35

How have before we get into that, how have your nerves

29:37

been? I I got to ask prop this where

29:40

where where's your head been last four days or

29:42

the last four years? Really? I

29:47

mean it's been a roller coaster. And um,

29:49

a year ago, I remember starting

29:51

to think where am I going to place

29:54

myself in the world for

29:56

the election, Like maybe it's best

29:58

to like go to Joshua Tree and do a bunch of psychedelics

30:01

and just blast off and be like I'll

30:03

check in in a week and like I'm

30:05

not gonna like go on the whole emotional ride.

30:08

Um. But then there was something

30:11

about the Dodgers

30:13

winning the World Series last week where

30:16

I started thinking, I was like, two

30:18

teams come into the World Series.

30:21

Neither of those teams come in saying,

30:24

oh boy, this could go real bad

30:26

for us. They

30:29

each come in saying I'm

30:32

going to take this because

30:35

like we are going to win because

30:37

we're the best. And I was

30:39

like, why are we all shaking being

30:41

like this could go so bad

30:43

for us? We need to be like we're the best. There's

30:46

actually more of us and

30:48

we're the best team. And

30:50

so I got a ton of swagger

30:53

going into actual election day

30:56

and then um, and then

30:58

I got a little bit shaken

31:00

by Tuesday night. I was like, I

31:03

guess, uh, Game one did not go

31:06

your way and

31:09

um, and I kind of faltered and I

31:12

got very sad to just

31:14

see the numbers again of like, my

31:17

god, his support has gone up. Half

31:20

a quarter of a million people are dead and

31:22

his support has gone up, and

31:25

uh, and white women have increased

31:28

their like after everything. It's

31:31

it's it's sobering to say

31:33

the least, and it's worrisome.

31:36

And yes, it's incredible numbers

31:38

showing up to vote, thank goodness. But

31:41

I am I also am like it

31:44

might be because we

31:46

have never been so divided. We used

31:49

to have shitty turnout because everyone's like, yeah,

31:51

well you know, and now everybody's like

31:53

no, my team, no, my team, you

31:55

know, like it can be kind of worrisome, but

31:57

like I I honestly

31:59

think it's

32:01

it's huge. Like even

32:04

if we just take the White House, it's

32:06

huge because at least we can get some cabinet

32:08

members in there who are actual experts and who

32:10

have hearts in their chest, and like we

32:13

can start working on things like police reform,

32:16

voter suppression. There's there's so

32:18

much work to be done, and it's time

32:20

to start now. And like what I think a

32:22

ton of white people woke up to this summer

32:25

was like, oh, when when we keep saying

32:27

like, oh, the system is broken America, system

32:29

is broken, we're like, no, no, no, it was

32:32

designed to to keep

32:34

white men in power. It's working perfectly,

32:36

like the if you study

32:38

the history of the police in the United States, it

32:41

is built on racism. The electoral

32:43

college is built on racism. Like

32:45

we have things in place to

32:48

keep women and people of color small

32:50

and quiet and oppressed and and

32:52

and with with a knee on their necks

32:54

and like and and the system

32:57

is right now like actual

33:00

the voice of the people is having a moment,

33:03

But there's so much work

33:05

to be done. And if we take the White

33:07

House but not the Senate, and if that

33:10

Mitch McConnell is an obstructionist,

33:13

like like the what they like, what

33:15

they did to Obama and and

33:17

no policy can be made. That is a much

33:19

different story than if this runoff in Georgia

33:21

helps us tie up the Senate and we can actually

33:24

create laws. So like what's happening

33:26

in the Supreme Court right now, Yes

33:28

it is stacked against us, but the

33:30

Court's job is to interpret the law. They

33:32

don't make the laws. So we made

33:35

the Senate so we can make the laws

33:37

to protect our brothers and sisters and family

33:39

members. We make the laws in the Senate

33:41

and then the court interprets them. So like now

33:44

there's so much work to be done. Goodness

33:46

gracious. The trial of George Floyd's

33:48

murders is still coming up, like

33:51

ship is going to get wild and

33:53

really weird, and like there's

33:56

you're exactly right, what you what you

33:59

were both talking about, Like there's so much uncertainty,

34:01

and it's true, like we're always

34:04

uncertain, like we're always improvising.

34:06

I'm actually an improv teacher and I'm always telling

34:09

my students like you're always improvising,

34:11

like unless you're actually in

34:13

a movie or TV show or a play and

34:15

you're on book like saying words

34:18

that someone else wrote for you. Any other

34:20

time besides those moments like you're improvising

34:22

and so everything is unsure

34:25

all the time. And um, I think

34:28

like we have such a fight on our hands

34:30

and none of us have a crystal

34:32

ball, and um man,

34:35

it's anybody's ball game. But

34:37

uh, I mean I

34:40

think between now in January with the Georgia

34:42

runoff, it's going to be very

34:45

very interesting. Alright, so

34:47

number one go off, then like

34:51

number one, number two you

34:54

can now add next time somebody does a bio

34:56

for you as an intro to um

34:59

to their podcast asks, not only are you

35:01

the highest blood alcohol level

35:03

on drunk history, you're also the first person

35:05

to say the C word on my podcast. So

35:07

that's pretty fun. There's really no

35:09

other way to describe Mitch McConnell. It's

35:12

just it's the only appropriate adjective.

35:16

Wait, wait, wait, this

35:19

is the funniest conversation I've had in a long

35:22

time, because

35:24

I just feel like there's

35:26

so much wrong with that man that

35:29

like some of the stuff is just like

35:31

low hanging fruit that I'm like,

35:33

I want to stick to. What is

35:36

like why he's so dangerous to our

35:38

country. But but my brain

35:40

gets so full of the

35:42

things you're saying, because I'm going

35:45

that, like, he looks like a turtle,

35:47

and I don't understand how anyone can

35:50

Like when you stand in front of me, I'm

35:52

like, I can't think of anything else

35:54

except that you look like a turtle, Like

35:57

how do you? How is anyone

35:59

like? How can you? How do I take you?

36:04

And I'm like, it's like it's one of those things. It's

36:06

like it's like the blue It's like the eight underground

36:09

gorilla, like the white oleman in the room.

36:11

How it's like, how come nobody's acknowledging

36:13

the fact that this man looked like a turtle? Like

36:16

can we acknowledge that he looks like a turtle? He

36:18

also sounds like a turtle. He

36:21

sounds like a car tool turtle. And

36:23

this is probably the probably the meanest

36:25

disk you can make, because it's actually sadly

36:28

true. He doesn't read out loud very

36:30

well. You

36:33

can't read out loud well. And that's the biggest

36:35

disk that I think if somebody told me that, I would

36:38

be devastated. If somebody said, hey, Alex, you

36:40

can't read out loud really well, I

36:42

would be so devastated because

36:44

that's such a crushing blow. Uh.

36:47

And that's and and that just the

36:49

way that that's the way the cookie crumbles. All right,

36:51

So where are we? Okay? So one go off

36:53

to you're the first person to say the sea word

36:55

on my podcast, which is exciting. We're

36:58

really getting spicy these days. Um,

37:01

because you just came at me with the biggest fireball,

37:03

I'm I'll return your

37:05

fire with my UM

37:08

disheartened feelings. I guess it is that I

37:10

saw throughout for the last four days. Um,

37:13

and it was that even though Joe

37:16

Biden has the most votes for him in presidential

37:19

history and he's

37:22

you know, he's clearly winning the popular

37:25

vote, I really was disheartened by how many

37:27

people came out and voted

37:30

for Trump still after the last four years.

37:32

And I think that the biggest thing I remember

37:34

is my manager Billy had said, UM,

37:37

when you're going to the polls, think about if you are

37:39

happier with your life than

37:41

you were four years ago. And

37:44

I know for a fact. I mean, I obviously I'm very

37:46

lucky, I met my girlfriend the last four years. I love life.

37:49

I love these things. But like in terms of where we are

37:51

as a world zero percent, and

37:53

so I think it's it's it was really disheartening

37:55

for me, and I think for a lot of people,

37:59

uh to see you

38:01

know, to see so

38:03

many places still go yeah,

38:05

we should do this, let's run that back, let's do

38:07

that thing again. What advice do you

38:09

have for anybody who's feeling that way?

38:13

I honestly, when I try to wrap my

38:15

head around it, I'm like, what is going

38:17

on? Because we know that we are operating

38:20

with two totally different pieces

38:22

of information, Like we are living

38:24

in uh, two

38:26

information bubbles, Like people who are watching

38:28

Fox News have a totally different

38:31

perspective of the world than we do. We're operating

38:33

with different information period. But

38:36

I I sit and think about um,

38:39

people who vote for Trump, and I'm

38:41

like, even if they just even if they're not listening

38:43

to what the commentators tell them to believe,

38:45

if they just listen to the words out of the horse's mouth,

38:48

still, how can they justify it? And I the

38:51

only thing I can come up with is, I think

38:54

it's that people

38:56

want to be um.

38:59

They're looking out for theirs.

39:01

They're looking out for their their

39:03

jobs, their security, their

39:06

white privilege, and they

39:08

want to maintain that it's comfortable, it's

39:10

familiar, it's cozy, and

39:13

like prop was saying that the damage

39:15

that has been done will

39:17

continue to reveal itself to us for years, because

39:19

even if we were to take the House, the

39:22

Senate and the and the the Oval Office,

39:24

like Trump has riled up

39:26

like and and given created

39:29

space and made room for people who

39:31

have been quietly racist for a really long time

39:33

to now be overtly racist,

39:36

and and that is really

39:38

scary and I and I feel like um

39:41

uh in the way like John

39:44

Lewis talked about, like to

39:46

to really create change, like people

39:48

are going to be beaten and killed,

39:51

like even to get the vote that happened,

39:53

and I think that that might

39:56

happen again. Like where it's

39:58

going, like ship is going to get very

40:00

very intense, Like how much

40:02

of an ally are you? How much

40:04

of an ally? Am I? What am I willing to do?

40:06

Am I going to like stay behind lock

40:09

and key and get really quiet

40:12

when the ship starts to hit the fan, because

40:14

like this is going to be

40:16

an interesting fight and and Trump has riled

40:19

up his base and who knows, Like even

40:21

it's it seems like we're waiting for really

40:23

good news right now in terms of the presidency.

40:26

But then what's the backlash going to be? I

40:28

mean, right now we have this flaming

40:30

orange ball of

40:32

vulgarity that is the backlash to

40:34

Obama. Like, what is the backlash

40:37

to this gonna be? It's it's it's

40:39

a it's unnerving. But um,

40:42

yeah, yeah,

40:45

yeah, I think I think the

40:47

thing that that came to mind while you were speaking

40:50

is the orange backlash

40:53

Trump was the backlash to Obama,

40:55

and now we are looking at what is this backlash

40:57

too to Trump? And

41:00

here and you talk about being an ally and I think

41:02

the backlash where I stand, and it's

41:04

obviously in a hopeful place, is like the

41:06

backlash is love. I

41:08

think that a lot of the time, especially

41:11

this year, we've talked about its got to get worse to get better,

41:13

and I think that as

41:16

shitty as it feels and as shitty

41:18

as it is, it's

41:20

gotten worse. And I think we're still in the worse.

41:23

And my hope is that if the backlash

41:25

to Trump can be love, if the backlash

41:28

like shoutouts to Arizona my hometown

41:30

have never been more proud to say from Arizona

41:32

than this election. But like if our

41:34

backlash too, Arizona,

41:37

which has been for a long time just

41:40

conservative. We're not increasing the

41:42

education budget, We're not you know, legalizing

41:45

marijuana. We're gonna stay red. We're gonna

41:47

support you know, um division,

41:49

and we're gonna But now we're here, I

41:52

think if we combat all of this and

41:54

the backlash too, Donald Trump

41:56

is taking care of each other and taking care of our

41:58

country and taking care of our plan it

42:01

it's gonna be a process. And I think where you were talking

42:03

about allies, and it's how much of an ally are you?

42:05

Are you an ally enough that you can disarm

42:09

your friends and family and hug

42:11

them and welcome them into the

42:14

love club or you know, whatever it

42:16

is of inclusivity and acceptance. I

42:19

know I sound like a hippie as I'm saying all of

42:21

this ship, but like I really do feel that

42:23

that is the way, not

42:26

in the polity, in the political sense, but in

42:28

the human sense, that we become

42:30

the backlash of of you

42:32

know, of Trump. Um.

42:34

But I want to get back to something else that you said in your

42:36

in your amazing which I think could

42:38

be like the your rant, like it was just you

42:41

like literally I was like, yeah, but what about oh, she's and then

42:43

she covered it. It It was incredible. Um,

42:45

I want to talk about you know, you had mentioned like

42:48

the fight's not over and we have, you know,

42:50

George Floyd's murder trials. We

42:52

have still the fight for racial justice

42:54

and um, whether that be in the form

42:56

of reparations, whether it be in the form of police reform,

42:59

whether it be in the form of you know, whatever

43:01

have you. You have the fight to continue

43:03

fighting for lgbt Q plus rights. With

43:05

Amy Colmbarrett as a Supreme Court justice,

43:08

we are now going to literally be fighting

43:10

for women's reproductive rights. All

43:13

of these fights right, and it does

43:15

still feel like even though we knocked one

43:17

of those things off the list, which was getting out and voting,

43:20

we still have so many things to do and

43:22

we still feel super uncertain. We still feel

43:24

super unstable. How

43:27

do we find what is the next right

43:29

thing? Just like the same way that it was, our focus

43:31

was we need to vote, We need to vote, We need to vote. We still

43:33

were protesting, you know, Black Lives Matter.

43:36

We still were outside of Jackie Lacey's

43:38

house, you know, protesting. We're still like doing

43:40

all those things. Now that that sector has gone, how

43:42

do we find out Okay, what do we all do next?

43:45

You know, properly talked about how as

43:47

an ally UM to the Black Lives

43:49

Matter movement and that, and as an ally to

43:51

any of an oppressed group of people, the

43:54

best thing we can do is listen. What

43:57

do you think I guess is the next move? Where

43:59

do we sin? Who should we listen to? Who

44:01

do you think should be leading the next fight, the

44:03

next charge. I think Killer Mike did

44:05

an incredible job and was very, very crucial

44:07

to how Georgia ended up voting

44:10

because he is such a hero out

44:12

there, especially in Atlanta. UM,

44:15

I know I just turned that question into seven million questions,

44:17

but let me let me go back to the main question,

44:20

which is how do we find out what the next

44:22

right thing to do is. One

44:25

of my favorite teachers, trans

44:27

woman named Alexandra Billings one time said

44:29

to me, when the student

44:32

is ready, the teacher appears.

44:36

And that's some Nanny McPhee

44:38

shit, Remember Nanny McPhee where

44:40

it's like, when you need me, I'll be there. And it

44:42

was just like, sorry, that just turned me there. I

44:44

agree, and I have been feeling

44:46

that in my life. I realized that more and more

44:48

what she meant that, UM, I

44:51

start to realize that as I

44:53

experience heart openings and that

44:56

word you said, listen, the more I listen,

44:58

and we're in a reply culture now where everyone's

45:00

just screaming and it's it's it's

45:03

not productive. Um. The

45:05

more I listen, the more

45:07

I start recognizing teachers everywhere,

45:10

like they are around us. But until

45:14

you are ready, like you, you cannot

45:16

hear them. They're there and they're talking. But

45:18

UM, I am seeing these teachers emerged.

45:21

There's a teacher. There's a teacher. There's a

45:23

teacher, you know, Killer

45:25

Mike Rick Rubin, anyone who

45:27

is speaking to you on on

45:29

a level where it's rattling your cage, where

45:31

it's ringing your bell a little bit like oh, that

45:33

makes me feel uncomfortable or curious

45:36

or or challenged in some way. When

45:38

the student is ready, the teacher appears.

45:40

And what I truly think is not

45:43

to be all hippie ship like you were saying.

45:45

But I do think that it's love. And

45:47

I think that I can only control

45:50

me, and so I think who

45:52

I have to listen to first and foremost

45:54

as I as I make

45:57

myself available to the teaching of the teachers

45:59

who are emerging around me. I have to

46:01

learn how to listen to myself better my

46:03

intuition. I have to listen

46:05

to my anger, because our

46:08

anger is information.

46:10

Especially I don't know about for you being

46:12

guys, but for me as a as a female,

46:15

Like, we've really been trained

46:17

culturally to hide and disapprove

46:19

of and avoid our anger.

46:22

It's not lady like, you know, it's

46:24

not. And and I've

46:26

come to a point of like, oh, my

46:29

anger is here to help me. My

46:31

anger is here as clear information.

46:34

So I can listen to my anger and

46:36

say, like, what is my anger telling me? Oh,

46:39

anger happens when a boundary has crossed.

46:41

You've crossed a boundary and it has

46:43

fueled, you know, when somebody almost hits you when you're

46:45

driving in your car and you're like and then you're like, yo, funck

46:48

face. Like your anger comes first

46:50

from like you were afraid. They crossed

46:52

a boundary, they came into your space. They

46:55

it was dangerous. And so our

46:58

anger tells us where our boundaries are. Our

47:00

boundaries tell us what our values are.

47:02

And so listen to your anger suit that you can identify

47:05

those boundaries, to that you can more clearly

47:07

articulate your values and

47:09

those values of love

47:12

and of um honesty

47:14

and of listening are

47:17

more important than ever now. But I think

47:19

any time I pay attention a lot to

47:21

that word should, like so

47:23

and so should be doing this, the GOP

47:25

should stand come out against so and so should

47:28

do this. Like I realized that any time

47:30

I'm in a should land, I'm

47:32

outside of my mind. I'm out of

47:35

my mind because I'm over in somebody else's mind

47:37

trying to tinker in their ship, and

47:39

like I can only do this,

47:41

like I've noticed recently, like with my my

47:44

husband, I I'm just really

47:46

really super tidy. Like

47:49

a lot of times he'll take out a shirt to like put

47:51

it on his body for clothes that day, and

47:53

he'll be like, where did my shirt go? And I've already hung it

47:55

back up because I'm like, this doesn't go here. This goes

47:57

here, and he's like I was about to put that on, but

48:00

um, like I noticed that. I go

48:02

around the house and he used some scissors and

48:04

he left him on the counter, and I'm like, he

48:06

should put these back where the scissors go. The

48:08

scissors don't go here, he should put them back. And

48:10

it's just slowly made me realize, like, oh, that's

48:12

only driving me crazy. Like if

48:15

I want the scissors to be in a certain place, I'll

48:17

put him there. And the more I waste

48:19

time on wishing he would do the stuff,

48:22

that's the way I want it. I'm that's

48:24

like completely like drained energy

48:27

that went nowhere. I can just put them where

48:29

I want him to be and then like

48:31

we have a peaceful home, Like I'm the one who wants

48:33

it to be like this, so I'm gonna make it like

48:36

this, And I think that's how we have to be in

48:38

our souls, in our homes, in our

48:40

cities, and in our countries. Like, honestly,

48:45

I think that's a great place

48:47

to end. We're gonna take a quick break when we come back. I

48:49

got propped back with me. Holly still here, and we're

48:51

talking about the soul of a nation. Don't go anywhere

48:55

I was up. We are back. This is let's get into

48:57

it. And now I have Holly and prop with

48:59

me and we are talking about the soul of a

49:02

nation. But first I want to

49:04

know for you and maybe for the listener elsewhere,

49:06

with all of this uncertainty, with all of this,

49:08

you know you'll have protests. You know, everybody

49:11

was getting ready for protests on either side. No

49:13

matter the outcome of the election, there

49:15

is still a lot of negative energy in the air. There's

49:18

still a lot of uncertainty in the air, a lot of instability.

49:21

What are the best places that we can find

49:23

joy? Oh?

49:27

Do you have it? Man? Um?

49:29

I just think man, like, uh, family,

49:32

you know what I'm saying, Like things that you

49:35

enjoy. I think that, like you

49:37

know, if you have like some sort of like spirituality,

49:40

like you know, leaning into that. I

49:42

just think ultimately, like for

49:45

me, it's been the mindset of the permission to check

49:47

out, you know what I'm saying, like giving

49:50

myself the permission to do

49:52

something brainless,

49:54

you know. Um. And

49:57

also as a person of color, like I always

49:59

say, like I need to go do black

50:01

shit. Whether it's like

50:04

you know, just barbecue, funk music,

50:06

you know, so whatever it is,

50:08

you know what I'm saying, Like, whatever it is that

50:11

feeds you sold. My wife is first gin so she's

50:13

first in Mexican. So for her it's like Combia,

50:16

She's gonna go do, She's gonna go, you know what I'm

50:18

saying. Like and my house

50:21

and my house turns into all Spanish,

50:23

you know what? I'm saying, it's like if feeds are soul, you

50:25

know, so in my mind, I'm like, you

50:27

know, yeah, identify that stuff, give yourself permission

50:29

and just like and make space for it, like put

50:31

it on your calendar when somebody's like, yeah,

50:34

like from twelve to four, I'm

50:36

busy. I'm busy doing nothing.

50:39

I love I love that, man. I think

50:41

that's really truly what it is. I think getting in tune

50:43

with the things that make you happy, whether it's something as

50:46

big as celebrating with your family or

50:48

being with your family, or if it's something as easy as like a

50:50

milkshake or a popcorn in a funny

50:52

movie, or you know, a joint or a

50:54

little a little martini or whatever it is. Yes,

50:57

yes, I have been noticing.

50:59

I've been uh telling

51:02

myself. I've been calling it like snapshot

51:04

where I'm like spinning in some kind

51:06

of anxiety or playing out some like potential

51:09

thing that could happen or go wrong or whatever.

51:12

And if I just pull back and I say,

51:14

if somebody took a picture of me right now and

51:16

I studied the picture, what do I see,

51:19

Like, what's the snapshot? I'm actually living in

51:21

Okay, regardless of where my mind

51:23

is spinning out and my anxiety is taking

51:25

me. If I had to describe

51:27

the snapshot of the picture I am currently

51:29

in, like wow, look where

51:31

I am, Like it's it's

51:34

beautiful outside, I have food in my

51:36

refrigerator, I have clothes

51:38

on my back, and I have the ability

51:40

to reach out to the people that I love and send them

51:43

light and love like I've been trying to do that

51:45

right now and all the uncertainty, like this

51:47

week particularly, is when I feel

51:49

the most despair, I just pick up my phone and I send

51:51

like a text to someone that I'm

51:54

thinking of and just say I'm sending you light and

51:57

love, like just my

52:00

I'm trying to uh,

52:03

we are vibrating all the time. So

52:05

um that gratitude

52:08

that prop was talking about of like count

52:11

my blessings. Look at the snapshot

52:13

I'm actually living in and

52:16

I've been and the snapshot has changed before, Like

52:18

this summer, I was at the corner of

52:21

Kwanga and Hollywood Boulevard when

52:24

UM cops

52:26

in riot gear started like setting off flashbangs

52:28

and like attacking like peaceful protesters,

52:30

and I was running for my life and

52:33

seeing things that with my own eyes where

52:35

I was like, oh my god, the

52:38

snapshot I'm in is like, holy sh

52:40

it, this is some like the images

52:42

I saw in black and white of like the civil rights movement,

52:44

if John Louis and all of a sudden like so

52:46

um. Sometimes the snapshot is like damn,

52:49

this is touch and go. But also

52:51

I have to look at the snapshot of like wow,

52:54

I'm standing looking at a sunset and there's a hummingbird,

52:57

and there's bumblebees, and those bumblebees

52:59

are working three mile radius to make sure

53:01

that like cherries get like right

53:04

right right for you know, and and and so

53:07

I think that snapshot and trying

53:09

to send little vibrations of love

53:11

and and not dealing in should but

53:14

just being like, what's under my control, that's

53:18

all we can do. I love that. I love

53:20

that the snapshot thing. That that's I've

53:22

never even thought about life like that, Like if somebody took a

53:24

picture of me right now, Like what would this this this

53:26

image be? Um.

53:29

You guys are both entertainers, and

53:31

you both have a pretty deep relationship with

53:33

poetry. I'm more curious,

53:35

just for on a personal tip, is there any

53:37

particular work or poet that's been getting you through

53:39

like this time, Like I know, in the

53:41

midst of all of the racial injustice stuff, like I

53:44

really swayed to Sam Cook and I was listening

53:46

to everything, you know, lots of lots of

53:48

music that was really of the time then

53:51

that was dealing with true, uh

53:54

issues. And then I would listen to everything

53:56

from One Man Can Change the World, the

53:58

Big Sean and Legend record that

54:01

came around when when Obama was

54:03

um running for president, and you have all of these songs

54:05

that are really like important. So as a musician that really

54:07

spoke to my heart. UM.

54:10

I don't have such a deep relationship with poetry,

54:12

but I was interested if if either of you guys had a specific

54:14

work or a poet or even another artist that's been

54:17

that that got you through um that

54:19

time or more specifically like this time of

54:21

uncertainty. Definitely

54:25

one of my one of my all time favorites is Mary

54:27

Oliver, and I've the more I've been

54:29

in her poetry this week, the more I've realized

54:31

how much she went into nature for

54:33

her own sanity. That was her way of kind

54:35

of like handling her anxiety.

54:37

And Um, I all week

54:40

I've been saying the beginning of one of her poems

54:42

that honestly is life changing to me is

54:45

It's called Wild Geese by Mary Oliver, and the

54:47

beginning of it is exactly what we're talking about today.

54:49

She says, you do not have

54:52

to be good. You do not have to walk

54:54

on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert

54:56

repenting. You only have

54:59

to let the soft animal of your

55:01

body love what it loves.

55:04

Oh,

55:06

it goes on, like on the end of the

55:09

podcast.

55:10

I'm not saying nothing after that.

55:15

Boy, let's just I

55:17

need you to say that bit again. I don't think anybody's

55:19

ready for more. I think we just need to really sit

55:22

and marinade with that first half. Yeah,

55:24

it's and and there's a whole second half of

55:26

the poem and like, but but for me,

55:29

especially again growing up female

55:31

being so deeply ingrained in me to

55:34

stay small and quiet and

55:36

subservient and kind and good

55:38

natured, and to take care of everyone's needs

55:40

before my own, and all of those things that are built

55:42

into girls like to hear. That

55:44

word, to me is a revolutionary phrase.

55:47

You do not have to be good. You do not have

55:49

to be good. You do not have to be good.

55:51

The irony of this poem is that it's

55:53

excellent. She is excellent,

55:56

like she's so good at it. But

55:58

like, you do not have to be good you.

56:01

You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles

56:03

through the desert repenting. You only have to

56:05

let the soft animal of your body

56:08

love what it loves. Tell me about your

56:10

despair yours, and I will tell you mine.

56:12

Meanwhile, the wild geese high in the clean

56:14

blue air are heading home again, like I'll stop

56:17

again, but it keeps going. But the

56:20

reason it's so important to listen

56:22

to your body and your anger is

56:24

that that soft animal of your

56:27

body that your consciousness is dwelling

56:29

inside of right now, is full of

56:31

information. So that

56:34

letting your body love what it loves

56:36

also takes us to our values,

56:39

which shows us the fight, which shows

56:41

us our next step forward. And

56:43

the term soft animal is like

56:45

insane, because it's really truly you

56:48

break this outer shell that we've either been

56:50

raised to have, or that it's been

56:52

passed down inherently, or it's been something

56:54

that we picked up because of what's

56:56

happened to us, you know, externally, and

56:58

now we have the shell. You cracked that

57:00

shell, and that's why I love the soft animal reminds

57:03

me of when you like you bite into a rollo or

57:05

you bite into like you know, like you kiss

57:08

with Karmen and you bite that outer shell and then

57:10

you're inside and it's just like a nice warm

57:12

So that's that that's beautiful with

57:14

This is not a poetry you know, this

57:17

isn't a poetry review podcast, but it might

57:19

be soon to

57:22

get because I because I will literally just

57:24

sit in that poem with you for the

57:26

next hour. I'm going to try and bring us back

57:28

to where we are today. UM.

57:31

Biden called this campaign the soul of the nation,

57:34

which I think is like, I think it's beautiful because

57:36

it's really what we were

57:38

fighting for, is the soul of this nation,

57:40

which you had mentioned it and prohaps

57:42

mentioned it so far. The system

57:45

was never broken, The system was never blank.

57:48

The soul was just different. The soul

57:50

was just it

57:53

was. It was working exactly the way it was planned.

57:55

And that's why I love this, this term the soul of the nation,

57:57

because what we were voting for, more

58:00

than the President, more than Senate, more than propositions,

58:03

was this soul of the nation. Who are we

58:05

going to be moving forward? Um?

58:08

I also know that it's

58:11

almost the holidays, and I know that there's a lot of

58:13

family time that we're going to be spending, and

58:15

I know that there's a lot of Luckily, I have an incredible

58:17

family and we all share views, but there's

58:20

a lot of family members who are going to be spending

58:22

the holidays with. UM. Actually, Catherine

58:25

and Holly, we're all um and and

58:27

proper. I don't know if if this fits

58:29

you as well, but we were talking before you got on

58:31

that all three of us were raised, you know,

58:34

in in very conservative upbringings.

58:36

I was raised in Arizona, and Catherine

58:38

and Holly were raised in in Chicago,

58:41

which um, as

58:43

diverse as it is as a city, still Middle

58:46

America, still very

58:48

conservative. UM So, my my question

58:50

for the both of you is because

58:52

I can't help but think about how many people

58:54

are going to be spending time with somebody

58:56

who maybe a month ago would be protesting directly

58:59

on the opposite side of the front lines.

59:02

Can we get along with with anybody

59:04

you know with family members or friends who have openly

59:07

racist or damaging views or voted

59:09

for Donald Trump? Can we

59:11

and and and should we even try

59:13

to? Wow?

59:17

It's hard man, Yeah,

59:20

that's why did you guys here. Yeah.

59:23

Man, I just think I think it's so complicated,

59:26

right because like, um,

59:28

my family, my father was a

59:30

black panther, so there's that, and

59:33

uh so we were you

59:37

know, we're

59:39

Christians, you know what I'm saying. Our our

59:42

our home, you know what I'm saying, but very

59:46

far from conservative, you know what I'm saying. So

59:49

it's always interesting when I say, yeah, I come

59:51

from like my family's Christian. I'm

59:54

like, but I mean something very different than

59:56

you probably do, yo saying. Uh,

59:59

you know what I'm saying. I mean like Martin Luther King's

1:00:02

was a pastor, you know what I'm saying. Like, so when I

1:00:04

say Christian, I mean that you know what I mean.

1:00:06

Um, you know so that said,

1:00:09

you know, obviously like the

1:00:11

LGBTQ situation comes up and it gets

1:00:13

kind of uncomfortable in our home when we

1:00:16

start pushing back and stuff like that. Yeah,

1:00:20

I man, I just I

1:00:23

think that there's a reality of like

1:00:26

when you know you're on the right side of history,

1:00:29

Um, which I think in this situation is pretty

1:00:32

clear. It's like it

1:00:34

now is on us

1:00:37

too. Somehow

1:00:41

appeal to the higher

1:00:44

nature inside of that person buried

1:00:47

under a gang of fear and

1:00:50

pain and misinformation, which

1:00:52

is what um, which Holly

1:00:54

you would kind of mentioned, and is like we built

1:00:57

you're they're building safeguards

1:00:59

around owned the fear

1:01:01

of losing something.

1:01:04

You know what I'm saying, Um, that

1:01:06

that you know, for us,

1:01:08

it's like somehow, somehow a

1:01:11

march towards equality, somehow

1:01:14

equals a loss of privilege for

1:01:16

those who've been on top, you know what I'm saying, Um,

1:01:20

And it's it's now like I said, it's it's incumbent

1:01:22

on us to go, Hey,

1:01:25

I recognize that you're afraid. You

1:01:28

know what I'm saying, Um,

1:01:30

You're afraid that you're losing something,

1:01:33

and that is a valid We

1:01:36

all are afraid of losing something.

1:01:38

Now are you in fact

1:01:41

losing it is a different situation,

1:01:43

you know what I'm saying, Like you're not you know what

1:01:45

I'm saying, Like this is a lyric in my songs,

1:01:47

like you know, equalities oppression. If all you know

1:01:50

it's privileged, you know what I'm saying. So like if

1:01:52

that's all you know, then it feels like oppression,

1:01:54

you know what I'm saying. But like, yeah,

1:01:57

it's like it's one of those things to where it's like you

1:02:00

you have to have the wisdom.

1:02:02

It's unfortunate, but this is just the

1:02:04

the burden of being on the right side of history

1:02:06

is just being like, I have to navigate

1:02:09

a higher conversation than this person

1:02:12

is desiring for me to get into. You know

1:02:14

what I'm saying, Like, I'm not like so

1:02:16

for me, it's like like you said, like I'm not gonna

1:02:19

not gonna debate you. You

1:02:21

know what I'm saying because most of the time, especially

1:02:24

now, like uh, you know Holly was saying to like

1:02:26

this fear of of of

1:02:29

this silo is so it's a sealed

1:02:31

off ecosystem that like

1:02:34

there's no amount of reasoning. I

1:02:37

can't pierce it like it' said. You know, there's

1:02:39

no numbers, there's no facts, there's no grounding

1:02:42

in reality that could make that

1:02:44

could pierce into your world. So

1:02:47

I'd rather pull back and say, hey, dude,

1:02:49

like I it sounds like you're

1:02:52

afraid of losing

1:02:55

something that you hold dear. And

1:02:57

I'm like, yo, so am I

1:03:00

you know what I'm saying, I don't want to lose something

1:03:02

I hold dear, which is my actual physical

1:03:05

life. Right. I

1:03:08

got a question that actually feeds directly to that

1:03:10

exact conversation that you're talking

1:03:12

about having um and and and

1:03:14

it's written down right here. It's like convictions are

1:03:16

convictions? Do you think that

1:03:19

the way that you would the way that you addressed it, I think

1:03:21

is is incredible, especially for that conversation. Is look,

1:03:23

you, I know that you're afraid of losing something. I

1:03:25

I too am afraid of losing something. But

1:03:28

at the end of the day, do you think that people who are

1:03:31

just completely convinced who's whose

1:03:33

privilege or whose equality feels

1:03:35

like oppression because all they know is privileged

1:03:37

like you had mentioned um, do

1:03:40

you think that they have that there's still a chance that those

1:03:42

minds can change or are you kind of do you

1:03:44

feel like a conviction on the just

1:03:46

convictions? Now I'm on the I'm on the holly

1:03:49

side. I think that like I can't

1:03:51

that's something that like that's an alchemy I can't

1:03:53

control, you know what I'm saying, Like I don't

1:03:56

know, you know what I mean. I know that my

1:03:58

mind has changed in a lot of ways. You know

1:04:00

what I'm saying. I know that I'm not I

1:04:02

don't think the way I did when I was twenty you

1:04:04

know what I'm saying, And that was experience and learning

1:04:07

and meeting new people and understanding and traveling

1:04:09

the world and just being like, oh

1:04:11

yeah, I got exposed

1:04:13

to things that made me know better. You

1:04:16

know what I'm saying, Um that the dissolving

1:04:19

of the psyche to reimagine it, you

1:04:21

know what I'm saying, Like I went through that. You know what I mean. I

1:04:23

think that it's unfortunate when

1:04:27

a person is not willing to do it, but it's also

1:04:29

I also understand it's painful, Like

1:04:32

you know, I'm I'm asking you, like, like, if you think about

1:04:34

a person like you said that milk toast person, what

1:04:36

I'm asking you to do is say everything

1:04:38

you learned about your nation's origin stories

1:04:40

is bullshit, all of it. That's

1:04:43

that. That's a that's a statement. You

1:04:45

know what I'm saying, Like, No, that's all bullshit.

1:04:47

Everything you know is reality's bullshit? Like what

1:04:50

you know what I'm saying? Like, so I

1:04:52

know what I'm asking of you. You

1:04:54

know what I'm saying. And so for me, I'm

1:04:57

like, I am not sitting at

1:05:00

old Thanksgiving table to convince

1:05:02

nobody of anything. What

1:05:05

I am doing is I'm loving my uncle.

1:05:08

And if my uncle, if my uncle

1:05:10

want to be an asshole, I mean, my uncle's

1:05:12

an asshole. Like

1:05:14

I don't know what you want me to say, like the asshole.

1:05:17

Yeah, but but I but

1:05:19

I will say again uncle,

1:05:22

my uncle, he's scared. You know what I'm

1:05:24

saying. I got, I got you know, I got family member

1:05:26

like in and out of jail that I look at them like

1:05:29

what did you doing? Man? Like just you?

1:05:31

I mean, I'm following. I logically understand

1:05:34

your train of thought, but this is ridiculous,

1:05:36

bro, Like you don't. You don't have to live this way.

1:05:38

You know what I'm saying that said, let

1:05:41

me get some of them, Kyla Green's my

1:05:43

one request is let's not do any of the arguing

1:05:46

at the Thanksgiving table, because like there's

1:05:48

some people there who who

1:05:51

might just want to be eating dinner and and

1:05:53

and that's where if you want to have your arguments,

1:05:55

do them outside because like for me, I'm

1:05:58

saying, if I'm having my meal

1:06:00

and then somebody interrupts it by trying

1:06:02

to come up with some crazy conspiracy

1:06:05

theories or any of that, I'm gonna be really upset because

1:06:07

I've waited all year for Thanksgiving and

1:06:09

my mom only makes cream corn once

1:06:11

and that's my mom, that's

1:06:14

my moment. So don't take that away from

1:06:17

Holly. I have a question for you, Um,

1:06:20

and I think just because and we're

1:06:22

still seeing it now. You know, in

1:06:24

over the last four years, we've seen that

1:06:26

the dangerous rhetoric nationalism,

1:06:28

Trump is um, conspiracy theories,

1:06:31

racism have all kind of been opened,

1:06:33

like the gates to that being an

1:06:35

okay thing to have, like to to be a part of

1:06:37

your life. It's been opened

1:06:39

and accepted a lot more than I would hope,

1:06:41

and I think that a lot of us would hope now

1:06:43

that hopefully we are starting

1:06:45

to turn a corner. Do you still feel

1:06:47

like things like that are going to be diminished? You

1:06:49

know, like there's some people who are thinking Trump's gonna start

1:06:51

his own news channel if it doesn't work, and then he's

1:06:54

gonna just kind of create this this

1:06:56

even to the right of Fox

1:06:58

News type of thing. Ing, Uh,

1:07:02

where where do you think we're gonna turn with all of

1:07:04

this? Because for the last four or five years, we've

1:07:07

tried on the on the right side of history.

1:07:10

We've tried to let them say what

1:07:12

they want, and we just take it on the chin. But then

1:07:14

it got to a point where we had no choice. Like

1:07:16

I think that it got to a point where there is no choice because

1:07:18

they were they were coming down with such

1:07:22

heaviness in their conspiracy theories, in their

1:07:24

nationalism, and the racism in the in

1:07:26

the damaging rhetoric.

1:07:29

Uh. Do you think that as we're turning this

1:07:31

corner with hopefully um

1:07:33

you know, Joe Biden winning this presidency

1:07:36

and hopefully us making that a cornerstone

1:07:39

of of change. Uh,

1:07:42

do you think that that's gonna die down? Do you think it's gonna go

1:07:44

up? What can we do about it? I

1:07:47

think it's gonna go up. I think it's gonna get

1:07:49

way worse before it gets better. Unfortunately.

1:07:52

Yeah, And I think it's what Props said to at

1:07:55

the end of the day, it's it's

1:07:57

really going to be

1:07:59

like, well, I think that's powerful

1:08:02

what you said prop about, Like, well, I love my uncle.

1:08:04

He might have dick head views,

1:08:06

but I'm going to I'm going to continue

1:08:09

to behave in a loving way to him. I one time

1:08:11

heard someone say something about like the

1:08:14

way a parent is to a child when

1:08:16

a child starts losing it ship. A lot of times

1:08:18

the parents is like, oh, you're so tired.

1:08:21

You you didn't I know actually that you didn't get

1:08:23

your nap today or you didn't sleep last night. You're so

1:08:25

tired. The parents like

1:08:28

looks for the most gracious explanation

1:08:30

for that behavior, and and

1:08:32

and why don't we do that like with

1:08:35

our partners, with our spouses,

1:08:37

with our wives, like when our when our

1:08:39

when our spouse, you know, behaves

1:08:42

like an asshole? Why aren't we like, oh, exactly

1:08:44

what prop is saying? Like, Oh you're tired,

1:08:46

Oh you're scared, like I look

1:08:49

at um. The last few

1:08:51

weeks, I've had almost no contact

1:08:53

with my family. My parents are big Trump supporters,

1:08:55

and it is so deeply painful

1:08:58

to me, and has been for four years. I

1:09:00

walk every day like trying to pen

1:09:02

the perfect letter, to craft the

1:09:04

perfect argument to show them the light

1:09:07

too, like and and it's all been

1:09:09

such wasted energy. And what's happened over these

1:09:11

last four years is that our relationship has

1:09:13

grown really, really distant. And

1:09:15

it hit me this week. While we've

1:09:17

been waiting for the outcome, I've had the thoughts

1:09:19

several times like, well, I'm just gonna

1:09:21

wait and see how this goes before I

1:09:24

contact my parents so that I know

1:09:26

what landscape I'm living in before the

1:09:28

call, And then it hit me

1:09:30

like a ton of bricks where I was like, oh, wait,

1:09:33

am I that sore of a loser

1:09:36

that like I gotta wait and see, like did

1:09:38

things go my way? Cool? I'm going to call

1:09:40

you and be cool. And then it makes me look at this last

1:09:42

four years and like, WHOA was I

1:09:45

that bad of a loser that for four

1:09:47

years I have let distance grow in this relationship

1:09:49

and my confusion at how you can be

1:09:52

these one issue voters and the way that it

1:09:55

It makes me feel ashamed of my legacy

1:09:57

and sad and disappointed in you as

1:10:00

people that you that you aren't more

1:10:02

critical thinkers, that you're not fighting

1:10:05

for the information. But again it goes back to like

1:10:07

that's me being out of my mind.

1:10:10

I'm trying to be inside their minds, tinkering

1:10:12

with how they're thinking. When I have to come

1:10:14

back into my mind and

1:10:16

instead of living out of my mind, be in

1:10:19

my mind and be like, oh wow,

1:10:22

I was a bad loser. I'm

1:10:24

going to be more gracious and loving and

1:10:26

reach out once I have like

1:10:30

like like you said, like Game one went bad

1:10:32

but like now with the series, if if the series

1:10:35

is like three one or something

1:10:37

like now I'm gonna call I'm feeling, you

1:10:39

know, and that being

1:10:41

said to I've had the thought before. Honestly,

1:10:44

I've had the thought, you know, because you can do tinktures

1:10:46

and stuff of cannabis, and um, I've

1:10:48

like I've thought of just putting a little bit of cannabis

1:10:51

and all of the Thanksgiving dishes, you

1:10:53

know, like in the without

1:10:55

them knowing, and I'm like, this could go great,

1:10:58

and this may be the only that,

1:11:02

like, you know, what might save Thanksgiving.

1:11:06

You're starting to give me some ideas, Holly,

1:11:07

at to give me a little

1:11:09

bit ideas, Holly, if

1:11:12

it's undetectable and all of a sudden, they're

1:11:14

just like everybody's really chill, laughing,

1:11:16

having a good time and like lighthearted and

1:11:18

remembering like, oh wait, I love all these

1:11:21

people. You run out of thanks you. The

1:11:23

only thing that happens then, though, is you run out of

1:11:25

food, and then people get angry

1:11:27

because the munchies kicking you go at home.

1:11:29

But the end, everybody's

1:11:31

asleep on the couch at this point. Um,

1:11:35

My only question that I have and it's it's for both of

1:11:37

you, is is Listen,

1:11:39

I think if we were talking about, you know, twelve

1:11:43

election, right, and you're at Thanksgiving

1:11:45

after the twelve election, and it was Mitt

1:11:48

Romney versus Obama, but it was just like it

1:11:50

was it was realistic, like and

1:11:52

and for lack of better term, it was just

1:11:54

politics. Right, How do you How

1:11:56

does that does that change at all? Though? Because,

1:11:59

like I listened to when I think about you saying like

1:12:01

you're a sore loser because you're only talking

1:12:03

to them once your guy wins. But at the same

1:12:05

time, I'd

1:12:08

like to think that Joe Biden potentially

1:12:10

sorry I keep knocking on, would um

1:12:12

potentially winning this election means

1:12:15

a lot more to me than just my guy one,

1:12:17

you know what I mean? Like, then, so does it change

1:12:19

at all to either

1:12:21

of you in the sense of because I

1:12:24

totally get it. I am the same exact

1:12:26

where it's like, if you're down to zero in

1:12:28

in the playoffs. I know we keep making sports

1:12:30

like sports analogies, but if you're down to

1:12:33

zero in the playoffs, you're not saying anything.

1:12:35

But once you're up three two in the playoffs,

1:12:37

you're talking. You're talking all of this ship

1:12:39

in the world and so I

1:12:42

think in my own opinion and maybe I'm

1:12:45

wrong, that's different

1:12:47

to me than what is what

1:12:49

this is now? I I mean because

1:12:51

again, to me, a part of it is like the way

1:12:53

that I see it is like the backlash

1:12:56

to Trump is love. And so maybe

1:12:58

you don't, you know, in my mind is like maybe

1:13:00

you're not calling your mom and your dad and you're like, guess

1:13:03

what, losers, But you're

1:13:05

saying like, hey,

1:13:07

I know that this has been a really divided time

1:13:10

and and I don't want to call because like not

1:13:12

I'm not trying to be you're you know, you're take

1:13:14

family therapist. But like that's the only thing

1:13:16

I was thinking as you're saying that is like to me, I

1:13:18

was kind of thinking, like, give yourself a

1:13:20

break, because you're not just saying you're not

1:13:23

mad that that that Romney

1:13:26

beat Obama. You're you were

1:13:28

mad that we we voted in something

1:13:30

that created such a divisive um

1:13:33

and just separating kind

1:13:36

of negativity. Yo, I'd

1:13:38

say this, I'd say this, dude. It's like, Okay,

1:13:40

so obviously there's like there's ditches

1:13:43

on both sides of the roads, right, There's there's silos

1:13:45

in both you know, spheres

1:13:47

of super progressive or super

1:13:49

conservative. They're they're silos, and there's

1:13:52

problems in both of our circles, right Uh,

1:13:55

At the same time, there is a big

1:13:57

difference. Like you know, at

1:13:59

least in in the world I exist

1:14:01

in. Nobody see Biden as

1:14:03

like to come in Messiah, Like he's not gonna

1:14:06

like he's not gonna save the world. You

1:14:08

understand what I'm saying, Like we are under no delusion

1:14:10

for that. So there's no like Biden cult. So

1:14:13

I think that like with that,

1:14:15

with that said, I think that, um,

1:14:18

what we can do is like remember

1:14:21

that, like culture is made up, and

1:14:23

it's made up by us, right, So,

1:14:25

like like Trump,

1:14:27

Trump tapped into an angst that was already

1:14:30

there and he turned up the fire. You

1:14:32

feel me, So it's our turn now

1:14:35

if we are the people in if

1:14:37

we're gonna say the people on top, if you wich

1:14:39

is a stupid like metaphor because it's

1:14:42

one nation, you know what I'm saying. But like if we

1:14:44

if we are that, then what we get to do

1:14:46

is say, hey, you just

1:14:48

gave us control. We're going to turn the fire

1:14:50

down a little bit and just say

1:14:52

here's here's how we're looking at this He's

1:14:55

just a man, He's just a person, a part

1:14:57

of a longer history.

1:14:59

Um, we are hoping to see people's lives

1:15:01

get better. I'm not gonna you know what I'm

1:15:03

saying, Like that's what was weird. That's I

1:15:05

think one of the unique things about this Trump

1:15:08

situation was like like they were sore

1:15:10

winners. I never never meant nobody that

1:15:12

was a sore winner. Like what I'm saying, like

1:15:15

like for you one, like why are you acting

1:15:17

like this? You know what I'm saying. So I just think that like there's

1:15:19

a way that you know, if we get

1:15:21

to set the temperature of the room, which we do

1:15:23

because that's how temperature is made, we make

1:15:26

it so then so so rather

1:15:28

than make predictors, let's just be you

1:15:31

know what I'm saying, what we're looking for and just being

1:15:33

like I'm gonna set the tone, like you're

1:15:35

going back to like the uh the like

1:15:37

parents situations, but like I

1:15:39

get to set the tone, you know what I'm saying, Like

1:15:41

if my if my five year old is spiraling

1:15:43

out of control, that's ridiculous to

1:15:45

let me go in there and spiral with her like

1:15:48

no, like you five,

1:15:51

you know what I'm saying like, let me, I'm

1:15:54

gonna set the tone here, you know what I'm saying,

1:15:56

and it but it again, it takes the

1:16:00

work on on myself, the willing

1:16:02

to look myself in the face, like like Holly

1:16:04

just said, it was like, yo, she looked herself in the face, Like

1:16:06

dog, I'm actually kind of guilty of this, you

1:16:08

know what I'm saying, and like willing to like

1:16:11

do that work. I think that that's the call

1:16:13

now, is like yo, do that work, do

1:16:15

that homework. Where where are your blind

1:16:17

spots? Where are those things? So when you walk into a room

1:16:20

that you already know it's toxic, you

1:16:22

understand what I'm saying. And because it's clearly

1:16:24

toxic, and like even even

1:16:26

among conservatives, like I'm even looking

1:16:28

at like the GOP, which is um

1:16:31

as a long answer, but like what I

1:16:33

look at, like what the GOLP is doing, Like I do a pod

1:16:35

call hood politics too, because I just I just think

1:16:37

that like politics is really just gang banging in nice suits,

1:16:39

like y'all just gang bang. So like so

1:16:42

so when I look at the GOP, I'm like, Okay,

1:16:45

the boss is going down, right, So what are you gonna do? You're

1:16:47

gonna go down with the boss. He's gonna die, You're gonna

1:16:49

go to You're gonna go to jail with him? Or are

1:16:51

you gonna cut ties and try to set yourself

1:16:53

up for the next boss. I started

1:16:56

acting like, oh well, I ain't never really ride

1:16:58

with him anyway,

1:16:59

you know. And if you the go op, you

1:17:01

was like, look, we got what we needed. We got

1:17:04

we we was on top. We got a couple of Senate seats,

1:17:06

we got three three Supreme Court

1:17:08

sissies were good Trump.

1:17:11

You know what I'm saying, Like they got what they needed because the hood

1:17:13

stands, you know, saying they're like, we'll rebrand

1:17:16

later, We'll be fine. You understand what I'm

1:17:18

saying. So I know with within

1:17:20

that conservative because you and I have

1:17:23

lived coincided with conservatives

1:17:25

four years, you're saying, we

1:17:28

like we've lived with these people forever,

1:17:31

you know. And so now I

1:17:33

get to go, Okay, So I know in there

1:17:35

somewhere is a logical

1:17:37

human being that

1:17:40

just wants to see the that just has different

1:17:42

a different solution for how

1:17:44

we could get to or have a different

1:17:47

path to the same solution. Like I understand that.

1:17:49

So and that's the beauty of the system. Were posted

1:17:51

to pull and tug at each other and fight over these

1:17:53

different things to get to the best answer.

1:17:56

That's what we're supposed to be doing. So now I

1:17:58

feel like we get to make that culture. We get to say,

1:18:00

Okay, now I'm gonna turn down to fire here like, I'm

1:18:02

not not here to gas like nobody like.

1:18:04

It's not that's not the game. That's what

1:18:07

was wrong. Was just the

1:18:09

gas lighting? You wrong. I'm not

1:18:11

gonna do that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

1:18:14

I think I have one last question though,

1:18:16

and and it's for both of you, and I want both you guys to give

1:18:18

me an answer because I think it will help, Honestly,

1:18:21

it'll help with my uncertainty, and I think it will

1:18:23

help with a lot of listeners uncertainty if we're all

1:18:25

kind of together with it. What are your hopes

1:18:28

for the next four years as we wait

1:18:30

for the answers, if they potentially, you

1:18:32

know, uh, come out our

1:18:34

way. I have I

1:18:37

have such high hopes. I mean, I

1:18:39

hope we can. I hope we can expand the

1:18:41

court. I hope we can eliminate the electoral

1:18:43

college. I would like to abolish the

1:18:45

applice the police. But if if we

1:18:47

just have to go for defund whatever reform

1:18:49

can possibly take place. UM put

1:18:52

in protections for voters. Um

1:18:55

uh undergird black

1:18:57

lives matter, like really do the boots on the

1:18:59

groundwork now? And honestly, UM,

1:19:01

my husband works with the LGBT

1:19:04

Center in Hollywood. They have a group

1:19:06

called the Leadership Lab and they

1:19:08

like flipped Orange County Ineen

1:19:11

and they are about they call it deep canvassing,

1:19:13

which is based on listening where they go door to

1:19:15

door and they've been in Pennsylvania for the last

1:19:17

month and look at what Pennsylvania

1:19:20

chef's kiss. But like, um,

1:19:22

their whole essence for their their

1:19:24

whole thing is that like when you talk to

1:19:26

someone, Um, you've never

1:19:28

convinced someone to change their mind by

1:19:31

telling them what you think or telling them what you

1:19:33

believe is right. Never it just doesn't work. It's

1:19:35

like it's like a high school kid who's like stoned

1:19:37

in English class, like I'm not there to learn,

1:19:39

I'm just trying to get through the day. So this

1:19:41

teachers, like you're the

1:19:44

teacher is falling on deaf ears. It's like when the student

1:19:46

is ready, the teacher appears and what they've

1:19:48

learned is that the only way to affect change

1:19:50

through story. And so they don't tell

1:19:53

anyone why they're at the door. They don't tell them

1:19:55

who they believe is the better candidate

1:19:57

or whatever. They ask them questions about

1:19:59

their story, worry, and through listening to their story,

1:20:01

they help that person articulate their values

1:20:04

and how their vote can um

1:20:07

align with their values and and like

1:20:09

Props said, like helping their

1:20:11

neighbor, helping their grandmother, helping their child,

1:20:13

my vote can actually create change

1:20:15

for people. And the only way that we,

1:20:18

um I think we

1:20:20

can do that is through the power of story

1:20:23

and listening to people's stories and

1:20:25

and shutting the hell up. Like I've actually I've

1:20:27

never learned anything by talking, but

1:20:29

I've learned almost every time I've listened.

1:20:32

So maybe we just have

1:20:34

to shut the hell up for a while. I should

1:20:36

have been that should have been campaign

1:20:39

plan is just like, hey, everybody, shut the hell

1:20:41

up for a while. Uh. It

1:20:44

has been hard, Like looking at the images

1:20:46

like on the screen burned into my retinas. Now

1:20:48

I'm like, man, it's so hard to feel excited

1:20:50

when it's just it's two old white guys Like I

1:20:52

don't feel like I'm looking at the future. That's

1:20:54

not the future. The future is not old

1:20:56

white men. Thank god, prop

1:20:59

what you got for us? Are you what are you hoping to see in the next four

1:21:01

years? Yeah, I think, um,

1:21:03

reimagining of like how we relate

1:21:05

to the planets.

1:21:08

Like I'd love to see us get back into the Paris

1:21:10

Agreement, you know, because we're running

1:21:12

out of water, Like I just don't understand how the partisan

1:21:15

issue breathe the air

1:21:17

man like so like, uh,

1:21:19

I'd love to see that. I'd love to see some

1:21:22

some healthcare change. I'd love to see some defunding

1:21:25

of police also, you know,

1:21:27

um, but I think ultimately, you

1:21:30

know, obviously, like at some point i'd

1:21:32

love to can we can we talk about reparations?

1:21:35

Can I be can I feel

1:21:38

know I'm saying, uh, but yeah, so, but

1:21:40

I think, like you know, in the in the from

1:21:42

the like ten thousand foot perspective, Like I think,

1:21:44

like I don't want to say a return of civility

1:21:47

because even during civil times,

1:21:49

like you know how black people

1:21:51

still going to prison twice

1:21:53

as much as everybody else. So it's like you're just

1:21:56

saying it nicer, you know what I'm saying, Like pens.

1:21:59

That's like a pincerer in the Trump like you just

1:22:01

the it's the nice version. You know what I'm saying,

1:22:03

Like I'm not looking for that, but I am looking for

1:22:05

somebody to say, like the

1:22:08

our congressman that got in in California,

1:22:10

David Kim, he was he uses his term

1:22:12

like human based economic economics. You

1:22:15

know what I'm saying it where it's like where the matrix isn't

1:22:17

some like how do we judge how good the economy

1:22:19

is going? Is not some like abstract chart.

1:22:23

It's like no, how are humans doing?

1:22:27

Like Joe saying like it's the economy good? Well

1:22:29

are you hungry? Can you got

1:22:31

a job? Well then okay, well I guess

1:22:33

your job paying enough for I guess it's not doing

1:22:35

well. You know what I'm saying, So like not

1:22:37

some arbitrary number that

1:22:40

only affect twenty people, you know what I'm saying. So

1:22:42

so I just think I would love to see if like that,

1:22:45

like just the overall tenor of

1:22:47

our nation to start just thinking

1:22:49

human first. You know what I'm saying, like

1:22:51

like how is this person doing?

1:22:54

You know what I'm saying, Like when you just you

1:22:57

step back and just again think about like the immigration

1:22:59

issues, like you put a child in a cage,

1:23:02

like I just I don't understand what version

1:23:04

of paperwork or would

1:23:07

make you forget that

1:23:09

that's a living person, Like I just even

1:23:11

if even if you could be the strictest

1:23:14

most like to the t you

1:23:17

need to follow directions to

1:23:20

gain citizenship, Okay, cool, but you gotta

1:23:22

put them in a cage though, Like

1:23:24

you know what I'm saying, Like you just just so

1:23:26

I just would love to see something

1:23:28

like that that we could come back to being like can we just

1:23:30

remember like we're talking about people here, like yeah,

1:23:33

these are people man, you know. So that's really

1:23:35

like my hope for the next like you

1:23:38

know, I don't. I mean, that's my lofty hope

1:23:40

and it's not I don't think

1:23:42

any of as much as I love it, I don't

1:23:44

think all of the things that you both

1:23:46

just said, which I share it a hundred percent,

1:23:48

in all of the hopes that both of you have

1:23:51

to me the way that I view it. Um as we're closing

1:23:53

out, it's my takeaway from this whole episode of

1:23:56

this uncertainty, things like where do we

1:23:58

go moving forward? Even if we don't know it's going

1:24:00

to be it's like we gotta lead with love. I

1:24:02

think something that would be amazing is like we gotta

1:24:04

separate politics from just

1:24:07

human like you said, like just regular human

1:24:10

rights, you know, like I think taking

1:24:12

out all of the things that are like we all want to

1:24:14

have a planet, right, Okay, cool, we all want air,

1:24:17

right, we want water. Everybody wants to be treated

1:24:19

nicely like And I think, however,

1:24:21

whatever the whatever the byproducts

1:24:24

of those necessities are, whether

1:24:26

it be you know, reforming police

1:24:29

or defunding police or abolishing

1:24:31

police, whether it be through reparations,

1:24:33

whether it be through through legalizing

1:24:36

um L, G B, t Q plus rights

1:24:39

across the board in every state,

1:24:41

every city, whether it be you know, all

1:24:43

of those things. Like I think it's to me, the way that

1:24:45

I view it is like we gotta we gotta really

1:24:48

say, hey guys, this, this group of things

1:24:51

are politics. Taxes. We can talk about

1:24:53

this, We can talk about that. Yeah, yaha, this stuff not

1:24:55

politics. We can't. We're not we're not voting

1:24:58

on whether the color your skin

1:25:00

gets to decide how likely you are to go to prison.

1:25:02

We're not go We're not good. We can't vote for those things.

1:25:05

We can't like those aren't options to choose

1:25:07

from. Um, so I one. More

1:25:09

than anything, I'm just really grateful that

1:25:11

both of you guys were here because I'm not gonna lie

1:25:13

like I've been hella uncertain the last four days.

1:25:16

I know, I said my earlier story like, I've just I've been

1:25:18

unproductive. I've been like lethargic,

1:25:21

I've been ANTSI checking my phone every

1:25:23

day like it's the fridge like, and

1:25:26

I just and I'm really grateful that both

1:25:28

of you guys came on here today. So thank you both

1:25:30

so much. Um this is my favorite

1:25:33

part of the show. As I let you guys go, it is called

1:25:35

not So Shameless Promo. UM this.

1:25:38

I want you guys to just hype everywhere that

1:25:40

people can find you, especially after this episode,

1:25:42

because I know that the listeners are gonna want

1:25:44

to hear more from both of you guys. Ah

1:25:47

man, um mind short, I'll

1:25:49

go first. Mega. The podcast

1:25:52

is um my comedy podcast, fully improvised

1:25:54

satire and um

1:25:57

uh yeah, and you can follow me at Polly

1:25:59

Laurent quick

1:26:01

and easy and effective. Yeah maybe

1:26:04

I'm subscribing right now. I'm subscribing right now

1:26:06

too, God Glass. Yeah.

1:26:09

Uh so for

1:26:11

me, everything is just prop hip hop

1:26:13

dot com and all the app

1:26:16

mentions. Uh, there's a that's

1:26:18

links to all the podcasts and the coffee

1:26:20

stuff. I'm somewhat

1:26:22

of a coffee nerd uh. It's so um.

1:26:25

I just think even if the world joint by, at least your

1:26:27

coffee shop and stuck. So like, get

1:26:31

some good coffee. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,

1:26:34

yeah, and U so

1:26:36

yeah yeah. Just prop hip hop dot com. That's

1:26:38

pop dot com. I love that. Thank

1:26:41

you both so much. Thank you know me alex

1:26:43

ion O A I O n oh, you can find me everywhere.

1:26:45

It's the best part about having a weird last name. Um,

1:26:48

if you have the time, please rate and subscribe

1:26:51

our podcast. Let me see hold

1:26:54

on, make sure if it was that one. Yeah

1:26:56

yeah, mega, thank you, there

1:26:58

it is. I'm going to reach out to you. Yeah

1:27:01

yeah, let's go. Let's go reach

1:27:03

out to reach out to me. Please, but

1:27:08

yes, please rate in our Please

1:27:11

rate and subscribe to the podcast. That's how we grow. If

1:27:13

you want, you can leave a review. I'd love to see

1:27:15

what you think. But thank you so much for listening.

1:27:17

Again, God bless America.

1:27:20

Huh. We'll talk

1:27:22

to you guys next time. All

1:27:24

right. We

1:27:33

really want you to get the help you need, so if you

1:27:35

need help, please seek independent advice from

1:27:37

a competent healthcare or mental health professional.

1:27:40

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1:27:42

those of the podcast author or individuals participating

1:27:44

in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I

1:27:46

Heart Media or its employees. This podcast

1:27:48

should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,

1:27:51

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1:27:53

does not established dr patient relationship with

1:27:55

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1:27:57

It or I Heart Media. No guarantee has

1:27:59

given guarding the accuracy of any statements

1:28:01

or opinions made on this podcast, Wolf

1:28:04

That's a Doozy