0:00

I'm Alex, and I am so

0:02

sick of this pandemic. No,

0:06

no, alright,

0:10

alright, forever, alright.

0:19

No, I've

0:23

only seen my family twice since

0:26

let's see March twelve,

0:28

which I think is when Los Angeles shut down.

0:30

Which I know that doesn't necessarily sound

0:33

like a bad thing seeing

0:35

your family twice, but for me, I'll

0:37

give you some context. I see my family at

0:39

least somebody in my family at

0:42

least I would say every other day,

0:44

if not, you know, three to four

0:46

times a week. So from going from

0:49

three to four times a week seeing somebody

0:51

in my family to now only seeing people

0:53

twice during the pandemic has

0:56

been very, very tough

0:59

for me. You know, I grew up. When I first

1:01

moved to Los Angeles, my family and I

1:03

we all shared a one bedroom apartment, so

1:05

we are so used to and not only used

1:07

to, but enjoy being together,

1:10

always spending time together, always

1:12

constantly knowing what's going on in each

1:14

other's lives and being connected and having

1:17

fun and playing games and going on adventures.

1:20

All of that stopped. And

1:22

not only it stopped at this time, but I

1:25

also you know, I have a niece who just turned

1:27

one. A couple of weeks ago, and

1:29

so not being able to see her kind of grow

1:32

up or watching her grow up through you

1:34

know, videos, and watching her grow

1:36

up on a screen U has been

1:38

pretty hard for me. Not

1:40

being able to hang out with my dad, who's one

1:42

of my closest friends, not being able to see

1:44

my mom and have her you know, scratch

1:47

my back and make jokes, and and all of us

1:49

having just that overall family time that

1:51

I'm used to having UM

1:53

isn't happening as much. And it's

1:55

really frustrating because as

1:58

I'm seeing people kind of just

2:00

getting tired of quarantining

2:03

or getting tired of being safe and being

2:05

smart, we are constantly

2:08

seeing our country continue to have rising

2:12

positive cases and we're having rising

2:14

deaths, and we're not making real changes.

2:16

And as soon as we start you know, quote

2:19

unquote flattening the curve, everybody

2:22

kind of thinks that we're done, and then we

2:24

just kind of find ourselves back in this loop

2:26

of more rising in cases.

2:29

And I even have a virtual tour that's

2:31

going on right now, and

2:33

one of the main highlights of that virtual

2:35

tour is a section where we talk about

2:37

how people's lives are being affected. And

2:39

I'm and I'm having conversations with my friends who

2:41

are nurses who feel like it's a slap in the

2:43

face that they're on the front

2:45

lines trying to help people, and they're

2:48

seeing what this virus really does to

2:50

individuals and too families, and

2:52

they they're seeing people just

2:55

because they don't want to quarantine anymore,

2:57

or just because they want to go out and eat at a

2:59

restaurant. They're just giving

3:02

up, you know, doing what it takes so that

3:04

we can beat this virus together.

3:07

Having friends who have had, you know, are dealing

3:09

with loss, Having friends who are just like me, not

3:11

being able to see their family, Having friends who are

3:13

teachers who are having

3:16

to basically change their whole

3:19

style of their profession, people who are

3:21

losing their jobs. So many things that are going wrong,

3:24

and yet I'm still seeing people who

3:26

are disrespecting

3:29

other people by

3:31

simply not distancing

3:34

themselves, not wearing masks, not staying home,

3:36

people who feel the need to go out and socialize

3:39

with their friends. And that got

3:41

me thinking, what do you do when coronavirus

3:43

starts coming for you? What's

3:47

up, y'all, it's alex IONO. This is let's get

3:49

into it where we talk about pretty much

3:51

everything that goes on in life. Nothing

3:53

is off limits, and today we're going to talk

3:55

about being away from your family during the pandemic.

3:58

UM. So to help me out with

4:00

this one, I have two very very good

4:02

friends. One is my wisdom tree that I always

4:04

turned to, Karen Erl Mean, how

4:07

are you, Karen? I am. I'm

4:09

doing COVID good. As you know, I like

4:13

COVID good. I love that. And also one

4:16

of my very very very very dear

4:18

friends. We have been friends now, we just clarified

4:20

eighteen years. I've known her since I was

4:22

in first grade. We

4:24

both grew up in Arizona. I

4:26

moved to California. She then also moved

4:29

to California to follow her dreams, which

4:31

is why we get along so well. She's been

4:33

by my side through thick and thin. Mackenzie

4:36

Mosley Ken's how are you, Bud? I'm

4:38

doing good today, doing good

4:40

today? You got you got, you got a big

4:43

smile on your face, So I'm with it. Um.

4:45

We are going to be talking basically about

4:48

the personal toll, and especially with the

4:50

highlight on families, because Mackenzie

4:52

and Karen, I know all three of us

4:54

have been away from our

4:57

families for quite a bit. I know, Karen, you're

4:59

used to seeing, you know, your brother, and

5:01

your niece, and your nephews and nieces

5:03

and nephews and and all of that family. Ken's

5:06

you know, and you both of us have seen our

5:08

family I think twice during the pandemic,

5:10

and have been dealing with our own then personal

5:12

struggles outside of that. And so we're

5:14

gonna be breaking down a couple of topics.

5:17

First, Um, Mackenzie, you and I are gonna

5:19

be talking about losing loved ones and dealing with

5:21

the family, the family told that that takes.

5:24

After that, Karen, you and I are gonna be talking

5:26

about what that true toll of being away

5:28

from your family really is. And lastly, we're

5:30

gonna talk about what we can do about it, what we should

5:32

do about it. And even though I'm pretty sure

5:34

everybody that lives in America already knows what

5:36

we're supposed to be doing, how can

5:39

we can actually how we can

5:41

actually get that done. But

5:43

before we get into those topics, I have a question

5:45

that I ask all of my guests, and

5:47

it is what are you doing to better

5:50

your life right now? We've

5:52

had so many different answers Ken's Karen's

5:54

given great answers historically and

5:57

continues to give great answers. I

5:59

have an answer that I'll give while you guys think

6:01

about yours. Uh, and it has been

6:03

I have recommitted to my

6:06

fitness goals. Um.

6:08

Actually, speaking of the pandemic, I you

6:10

know, when the pandemic first started, I was like, yeah,

6:13

we gotta like I'm gonna go hard, like I'm gonna

6:15

just I'm gonna eat healthy and clean and

6:17

I'm gonna work out. And I got really, I really got

6:19

to the best shape of my life. And everything

6:21

opened up for like two seconds in Los

6:23

Angeles, and I was hyped as soon as they

6:26

closed down again. I reached this level of just

6:28

like what is the point, Like why why?

6:30

Like there's no point in in

6:32

in and

6:35

not eating foods that I want to eat on an

6:37

everyday basis that do genuinely make me

6:39

happy. Um, because

6:42

nobody's gonna see me. I'm in my house, I'm in my

6:44

I'm in my room twenties two hours

6:46

of the day. So UM, I

6:48

have now recommitted to those fitness

6:50

goals because I do miss the

6:53

way just kind of the vibe that I had

6:55

before, where it was waking up super early, getting

6:57

some good cardio in having

7:00

nice healthy meal. There was just a nice little structure

7:02

to that. So the thing that I've done this week to better

7:04

my life is I've recommitted to those

7:06

goals and getting back on my little

7:08

fitness train. Karen, do you have something

7:11

for me? I do. I have

7:13

been painting, not

7:15

painting the walls of my house, but like art,

7:18

and the listeners can't see

7:20

what I'm holding up, but this is like a little

7:23

two inch by three inch piece of water

7:25

color paper. And I have a weekly

7:28

um art date with my niece, who

7:30

Alex knows, my twelve year old niece, and

7:33

we are on Zoom together and we

7:36

paint and she's an amazing artist.

7:38

And sometimes especially if I am like in

7:40

a super funky down mood and

7:43

I'm just watching like mindless TV, I will pull

7:45

out my water colors and I'll just be painting

7:47

sitting on the sofa. Nice. I

7:50

love that she has a twelve year old niece

7:52

that is just insanely talented

7:54

as an artist, Like it's insane how talented

7:56

she is at the age of twelve. So we are rooting

7:59

for you. Um Ken's do you

8:01

have anything for me. Um. So

8:03

this week, I've been focusing on every

8:06

day doing something different, one

8:09

thing that makes me happy. Whether that's

8:11

I have a spot here in l A that I go

8:14

drive to and sit by myself and I just think,

8:16

whether it's reading, I wake up

8:18

in the morning and I meditate, I

8:21

organized my house. I try

8:23

to make it something different every day so that I don't

8:25

become complacent. And with one

8:27

thing, I'm trying to find different ways to make me

8:29

happy and focus on myself

8:32

because I'm someone who typically focuses

8:35

on other people's happiness and making sure

8:37

they're okay, versus focusing on myself.

8:39

So I've really been trying to just focus on

8:41

me and make sure I'm good, because

8:44

if I can't be happy other people,

8:46

like I can't make other people truly happy. I'm

8:49

focusing on facts. I

8:51

love it. All. Right, Well, let's

8:53

get into some Let's get into some conversations.

8:55

Karen, we'll talk with you in a bit. Keenzie, it's

8:58

time for us to go one on one um. But before

9:00

we get into that, like, I feel like you and I

9:02

were too good of friends to not tell kind

9:04

of our story about how we know each other. And

9:06

I've mentioned a little bit already. Um,

9:08

But Ken's we met in elementary school.

9:11

I was in first grade. You were in second grade, even

9:13

though you're only four

9:15

weeks older than me. Um,

9:18

you were just you were in the grade above. But we

9:20

actually became friends because I

9:22

think I feel like, I mean, we became friends because

9:24

we we enjoyed each other's company. But um,

9:27

your older sister, uh Diz

9:29

or Madison, um is

9:32

best friends, like absolute best friends with

9:34

my older sister Sydney, and so I think we

9:36

became friends out of that, and then we

9:38

also just like enjoyed each other's company. I

9:41

feel like when we were in elementary school, though, like

9:43

we would either be friends some days and then some

9:45

days we would be like arch Nemesis is

9:47

and we used to we I'm not gonna say

9:49

any of them because they were so mean

9:51

and I would look like such a meanie. But

9:53

we used to say some of the nastiest things

9:56

to each other, like out of like we would just be ripping

9:58

each other, like roasting each other before

10:00

roasting was a thing. Mackenzie and I would

10:03

like roast each other insane

10:05

amounts. I remember, you know exactly

10:07

what to talk about when we were when I was in fourth grade,

10:09

you're in fifth grade. We had this

10:12

we were on this like this elementary

10:14

school like school trip

10:16

that you go up to these cabins, and we

10:19

were I can't even say

10:21

the things that I can't even

10:23

say the things that we were saying to each other. That's

10:26

how mean we were as children. By

10:28

the way, if you're a child, you're mean.

10:30

I mean, your kids are mean and

10:33

and and I know that adults are mean too, but kids

10:35

can be mean because they don't understand. They don't

10:37

know the line. When you're an adult, you know the line

10:39

and if you cross the line, you're really mean.

10:42

But kids don't know the line, so they there's nothing

10:44

that's off limits for kids. Kids will funk

10:46

your day up. Um.

10:49

That being said, we were those kids like we were, we were

10:51

so many But eventually, after we kind

10:53

of had a couple of years apart, when you went to middle school

10:55

and I was still in elementary school and I moved a little bit, we

10:57

came back together, went to the same school when

11:00

I was in eighth grade and you were in ninth grade, and

11:02

in our friendship kind of double

11:04

reignited, and and we've been best

11:07

friends ever since. Did I miss anything.

11:10

Um, I think you nailed that

11:12

one. We grew up performing together, which

11:14

yes, we did grow up performing together, and we always

11:17

both like had really good passion for

11:19

like a really strong passion for art. Um.

11:21

And I just think it's so cool

11:23

that now you've been out here for three years, Um,

11:26

but you work in film and you

11:29

actually are. So We're

11:31

so connected through people that we work with.

11:33

Um, you have a friend, you have a really good friendship

11:36

in the assistant editor for my movie,

11:38

UM that's about to come out, Finding Ohana.

11:41

So we have a we have a lot of connections

11:43

even in our professional world. Now,

11:46

UM, that's really really cool. And I just love having

11:48

a friend that, you know, I

11:50

think out of everybody in Los Angeles, UM,

11:53

when it comes to moving out from you

11:55

know, from Arizona to to Los Angeles, chasing

11:58

your dreams, knowing what that means to

12:00

your family back home and the expectations

12:02

and all of the pressures and all that, I don't think anybody

12:04

gets it more than you do when it comes

12:06

to us like getting each other. And so it's

12:08

been really really nice having somebody that is

12:11

just a good sounding board. Um. But

12:13

enough about our friendship. I want to talk to

12:15

you about what before we get into the

12:17

more personal stuff. Uh, tell

12:19

us about your living situation. What's your day

12:21

to day is, like, um,

12:24

what your work life is like in

12:27

and kind of all of that aspect of your

12:29

your California lifestyle. So

12:32

typically, I mean before the pandemic,

12:34

like I work in film, I

12:37

usually have a really busy day

12:39

to day. I usually work like sixty

12:42

to seventy five hours a week is what my schedule

12:45

was. Um. When the pandemic

12:47

hit, It's just within

12:50

three days quickly shifted into working

12:53

from home, which was

12:55

a learning curve because when you're used to being

12:57

in a fast paced environment,

13:00

it having everyone around you when you need

13:02

something, and then just going to nothing

13:04

like you and yourself at home.

13:07

Having to learn to navigate

13:09

that way. It's hard, but I got used

13:11

to it. Um. Unfortunately,

13:14

now I'm not working due to the pandemic.

13:16

So it's it's allowed me to really

13:19

sit with myself and now I have a new normal

13:22

of like trying to do something

13:24

new every day in my living situation, Like I

13:26

just had two new people move into my home.

13:29

Navigating that, Um,

13:32

it's it's a it's

13:35

hard, but it's I'm doing it.

13:37

It's one day at a time, is what it's

13:39

come down to, and trying

13:41

to take all the emotions

13:43

and everything that come from it and put it into my

13:46

passion and art within film

13:48

and using these emotions to write and

13:51

try to create something new with the new normal,

13:54

especially for transplants Um

13:56

that that you know that moved to Los Angeles and

13:58

when you don't have a lot of friends and a lot of family

14:00

and you live you know, like you mentioned,

14:03

you just got new roommates, but for the last

14:05

like monthish, it's been kind of you

14:07

living solo dolo and

14:09

uh, I think a lot of people don't understand,

14:12

like part of the l a lifestyle, especially

14:15

when you're not from here and you don't have family

14:17

and and and and close people that you live with,

14:20

is being out. Is going out seeing

14:22

your friends, hanging out, you know, going meeting

14:24

up at parties or meeting up for for lunch or

14:27

or you know, doing your actual

14:29

work. When you're not doing those things,

14:32

it becomes a lot more isolating. And

14:34

uh. And especially because I know um

14:38

firsthand with you like you've

14:40

been You're one of the earliest people that

14:43

I knew that also was taking it super

14:45

serious because your father, Um,

14:48

which we'll get into first. Your father contracted

14:51

COVID pretty early on in the in

14:53

the pandemic UM.

14:57

What were your thoughts when that happened?

14:59

Because you're your father. By the way, Bill Mosley

15:01

is one of my favorite people on earth. He

15:03

has just like the kindest soul

15:06

and is always making you laugh. There's

15:08

never a dull moment with Bill. Um.

15:10

And he's also been he had been dealing before

15:13

COVID, was dealing with other

15:15

health issues. So can you go into a little bit more

15:17

about that whole situation and how that

15:20

made you feel? So and

15:23

if I get emotional, I apologize,

15:25

It's okay, sorry,

15:28

that's good, You're good, We're with

15:31

you. Um.

15:34

So at the beginning, when I

15:37

think within the week of when

15:40

I transitioned into working from home is

15:43

the same week I found out about my dad and

15:47

I knew my dad like me and my dad

15:49

talk every day, Like if

15:52

I don't hear from him or I'm not reach

15:54

out to him, like something's I

15:56

know, something's off. So

15:59

I had few days I was like, where it Like, I

16:01

have not heard from my dad. So

16:04

I reached out to my siblings. I'm like, is

16:06

everything okay? Like I

16:08

haven't heard from dad, and

16:11

they like, then let me know it had been three or four

16:13

days. At this point, they knew

16:16

I was stressing and struggling with this whole transition

16:18

of being home and just

16:21

dealing with other personal things in

16:23

my life, and so they then told

16:25

me, like, your dad's in the hospital,

16:28

and they didn't want to freak me out. And I

16:31

understand why they were trying to keep

16:33

me calm and not freak me out until they knew

16:35

exactly what was going on, because he had

16:37

been stable. And

16:40

then we found out my dad had COVID and

16:43

it he was in the hospital for a

16:45

while. Not getting this

16:48

is when it was first starting. The hospitals were packed,

16:50

like not being able to get updates

16:52

every day you sit and you just worry,

16:55

and then getting an update like

16:57

we don't know if your dad's gonna make it, and

17:01

constantly every day being something different

17:03

like that's hard, and then

17:05

it being away from your family

17:07

already, like I'm here alone of

17:09

I have my support system here, but

17:12

there's nothing like your family support. So

17:15

not being able to be there and just be in the comfort

17:18

of my home dealing with this my

17:20

family was so hard, and

17:23

eventually, like my dad got out of the hospital and

17:26

he had to recover at home alone, and

17:28

then my heart just broke for him because I'm

17:30

like being alone, being sick, and

17:33

like not having your family be able to like be

17:35

with you. He was alone for two

17:38

months, like we couldn't my family

17:41

had to drop off food at the door,

17:43

like we could barely call

17:45

him because he couldn't didn't have

17:47

enough air to talk, like his

17:50

energy was taken from walking to the

17:52

bathroom, like horrible. So

17:54

to not be able to be there and at least

17:56

comfort your family and feel the comfort

17:58

from your family, it broke

18:01

my heart. And I still get emotional, God, because I like,

18:04

because people

18:06

are being selfish in the world and people

18:09

aren't taking it seriously, and like I had to see

18:11

someone I love dearly like

18:13

struggle. And fortunately he

18:15

is recovered and he's doing a lot better.

18:18

But it's like he didn't have to go

18:20

through that for three months.

18:22

I mean, there's a there's a lot to be said. Also that I want

18:24

to point out, just knowing you,

18:27

Ken's is that you're

18:29

like me, where you have your

18:31

whole family as a unit, and it is

18:33

you're you're talking to your family every day when

18:35

when we were in Arizona. Even

18:38

to broaden the scope, you know, your

18:40

your first cousins were all at

18:42

the same school with us, Like you're that close with

18:45

Caitlin, with Aunt Sharon. You have

18:47

all of your aunts and your uncles. You all live so close

18:49

together and seeing each other so so common.

18:51

And that's something that you and I really

18:53

related to when this pandemic started,

18:56

was feeling like we can't see

18:58

the people. You know, if

19:00

if they told you, hey, you have one day

19:02

to gather all of the people that you want to be with

19:05

and then you have to lock down, we would have both been

19:07

home and you know, moved and had the

19:09

time to prep. We didn't get that time,

19:11

so by the time that it started, we didn't have the

19:13

opportunity to change. And the

19:15

same goes for your father where it's it's he

19:18

didn't have the opportunity to be quarantined

19:20

with you know, if he had his if he had

19:22

his choice choice, knowing Bill, it would

19:24

be you, Heiris and

19:27

and Diz living in the house with

19:29

him, so that while he's back home and recovering,

19:32

uh, he has you there with him. Um.

19:34

The good news is is that you know, like you

19:36

mentioned Bills on the up and up, and

19:38

he's already getting his he's getting his little comedic

19:41

taste back and is in in full energy

19:43

and everything. So, um,

19:46

Bill, we love you and and uh and we're with you.

19:49

But I want it before we get into I'm gonna give you

19:51

a crying break because I knowing you, you're gonna

19:53

cry again a little bit later on in this episode

19:55

probably I want to clarify. Also, one thing,

19:58

Um, You're just just to make sure

20:00

Bill got he got COVID in April, right

20:03

March. So it was it

20:05

really was like we're talking about he

20:07

was the first person that was close to me that I

20:09

heard um had COVID as well.

20:12

And so uh for you know,

20:14

for that being kind of and out the gates,

20:17

this is you know, you had a firsthand experience

20:19

of what this this virus does. Uh,

20:21

it's pretty scary and it definitely like,

20:23

yeah, it pisces. It pisses me off

20:26

to knowing things that like, look,

20:28

I know that I I know you know, I am

20:31

of I'm of pretty good

20:33

health. Like I think I'm I'm of top tier

20:35

health when it comes to their if health was a tax

20:37

bracket, I would be at the highest

20:39

tier. Like if they if they broke it up, Like I feel

20:42

like, if I got the virus, I would be absolutely fine.

20:45

But my dad has pre existing conditions. My

20:47

dad had quadruple bypassed and has an

20:49

enlarged heart right now, and

20:51

my grandparents have are are obviously

20:54

you know, their immune systems aren't the same as

20:56

mine. There their respiratory systems

20:58

and not the same as mine. Even Mickey

21:00

and Sandy, who I live with here at the house, don't

21:02

have the same respiratory system and the health systems

21:05

that I have. UM.

21:07

So because of that, I want to stay inside.

21:09

And it's really sad that a lot of people don't

21:12

recognize that same exact thing

21:14

that that yes,

21:17

if you get it, you'll be okay, but it's

21:19

not the same for everybody.

21:22

Let's let's let's go back in time to right after

21:25

your dad, you know, he's in the clear, you're you

21:27

have you get to exhale. Where

21:29

were your thoughts and where are

21:31

your thoughts compared to that um about

21:34

the coronavirus in terms of your anxiety to

21:36

go outside or to go and and contract

21:38

the virus because you're, you know, for fear of

21:41

of getting it. Because the other thing is It's not only

21:43

about now that you've seen your father

21:45

who had to go to the hospital, had to recover and it's been

21:47

months and months of recovery, you don't

21:49

know if that would be the same situation for

21:51

you. So it's also the fear that

21:54

you because there are people that are in

21:56

their young twenties that are getting

21:58

it and are experiencing that same traumatic,

22:00

if not even more traumatic experiences.

22:04

Having that firsthand experience super early

22:06

on in the pandemic, did that shape a

22:08

little bit of your kind of your thoughts

22:10

and feelings about the pandemic. Um

22:13

definitely, like put

22:15

things into perspective because when

22:17

this all first started, you

22:20

like hear about it, It's all over the news, Social

22:22

media's blasted with it, and

22:24

you don't think that someone close to you, that

22:27

close to you, you don't think

22:29

they're going to get it, and then they do. So

22:31

it like when my dad

22:34

started getting better, Like I was still paranoid.

22:36

I was so paranoid because I'm like I

22:39

like when I tried to go to the grocery store, I had so much

22:41

anxiety, Like I just felt gross,

22:44

like I don't want to touch anything. I was

22:46

like, how did my dad get this? Because

22:48

we don't know how he got it, Like he doesn't do

22:50

that much like work, church, home,

22:53

So I'm like, he got this either

22:55

picked it up from the store, church, or work.

22:58

So any time I had to leave my house or go get

23:00

gas, like, I was so paranoid,

23:03

and I tried to like not, I

23:06

tried to allow myself not to feel that much anxiety

23:08

and stress about it. If I was doing

23:10

my part. I was like, if you're doing your part and you're

23:14

staying home and being clean and

23:17

talking to my friends about it and

23:19

having them do the same out here and making sure

23:21

my family is doing

23:24

their part, that helped. That

23:26

helped me a lot. And I think constantly

23:29

just talking about it and sharing

23:32

my dad's story with other people to

23:34

show them like, hey, like, now you know someone

23:36

close to you whose parent has

23:38

it. Like I just tried to use

23:41

my experience to teach

23:43

people and help them to help

23:45

myself because if not, I was going

23:47

crazy. And I feel like I feel like once

23:50

you have that firsthand experience, not only

23:53

do you want to tell everybody else to be

23:55

kind of better about it, but you

23:57

also clean up everything all of the little

23:59

things that you were doing. You know, I know that you had,

24:02

you had your friend's roommate who had

24:04

who had contracted COVID. It

24:06

kind of changes the way that you act as a person,

24:09

knowing, hey, this happened to my father,

24:11

or this happened to my friend or my close friend. I

24:13

need to be better about it since

24:16

that moment you and I have had. You

24:18

know, the only times that I saw you during

24:20

the pandemic so far where

24:22

from you know, you would pull up to my house

24:24

and sit outside in your car and roll down your window

24:27

and I'd sit on my like I'd sit on the

24:29

trunk of my car, and we would just have conversations

24:31

for you know, for an hour, or you'd come by and just

24:33

stop by and drop off a treat, or

24:36

you know, we would we would face time and all of

24:38

those things. We

24:40

were doing a really good job and still are

24:43

doing a really good job. And I take

24:45

pride in the fact that through the pandemic,

24:47

I have been very responsible, and anytime

24:50

I wasn't responsible, I go and get tested or

24:52

I quarantined myself away from people that I think

24:54

could get it. And

24:56

then it doesn't

24:59

really change for us. You know,

25:01

we do everything we can, but still at

25:03

the same time, we still are experiencing more friends

25:05

and family contracting coronavirus. We're

25:07

still experiencing losses,

25:09

We're still experiencing all of these things, which

25:12

leads me to the last thing I want to talk with you about,

25:14

um, which is Grandma Rose

25:17

uh and uh and that to me

25:19

is it's really frustrating as

25:21

your you know, as your best friend, seeing

25:24

that even when we are doing everything

25:26

we can, it

25:28

doesn't change outcomes

25:30

for our people. And

25:33

uh and and I want to talk a little bit about about

25:36

that because it does bring up a lot of emotions,

25:39

um, for me, just as your

25:41

friends. So I can't imagine the emotions that

25:43

that go through your head as somebody who is doing

25:46

everything right and trying to get your

25:48

family to do everything right. And for the most

25:50

part, they probably are outside of going to work,

25:52

you know, I know Kathy and Diz and and Caitlin

25:54

and Sharon, they're not they're not being reckless and

25:56

going out and hanging out with friends and going to

25:59

bars.

26:01

But things still happen and and

26:03

and the virus still continues

26:05

to spread and it affects people. So

26:08

UM, I'll tell

26:10

the news if if that's okay with you,

26:12

your your grandma passed away about

26:14

a month ago now from coronavirus

26:18

and complications that came

26:20

along with that. I've met Grandma

26:22

Rose a few times, and she's just you

26:24

know, from doing jello shots at

26:27

ninety years old to like just having

26:29

the sweetest heart and always laughing and

26:31

smart, like she lived every day of her life.

26:33

Like I think that's the one guarantee from

26:35

your view, tell me a little bit about your grandma. Grandma

26:39

Rose, literally, she's like she's

26:42

like the light of our family. My grandpa

26:44

passed away like years

26:46

ago. She raised eight kids by herself,

26:49

brought them all to Arizona. My family's

26:51

huge, there's plus

26:53

grandkids and great grandkids. Like, our

26:56

family is very close, and it was we

26:59

centered around her. She literally

27:01

was the light. And with

27:04

her being gone, it's like you want to try

27:06

to focus on who she was, and I

27:08

think that's what helped the

27:10

situation. And she was years

27:12

old, she lived an amazing

27:15

life, Like she's one of the strongest

27:17

people I know. I mean, to raise eight children by

27:19

yourself, um, and everyone came

27:21

out okay, I it

27:24

just says who she's as a person. She loved

27:27

fully with her whole heart. She never

27:29

remarried, because she held onto the

27:32

love from her husband that passed away, and

27:34

she just like she's

27:36

one of the biggest motivators, I think to every

27:38

single person in her family, because you can't think

27:41

of her or look at her think of a story where you're

27:43

like Grandma, like she truly put

27:45

her heart into helping

27:47

us become who we are. And but

27:50

I have comfort and knowing she lived

27:52

her life and lived it fully and lived

27:55

it happily, um like,

27:58

and she was strong. She had her own health issues.

28:00

She had five back surgeries after

28:03

eighty, Like this girl was kicking.

28:06

But I knowing how

28:08

strong she was in the love she had is what helps

28:11

is what helps me with all of it. And I'm

28:13

so happy that you found that, like that

28:16

happiness you know now being

28:18

being here and having dealt with

28:20

it and really digested everything. Um

28:22

But I also know you know from the jump when

28:24

you and I were talking the day that you found

28:26

out that she even had coronavirus before

28:28

she had even passed, you know. For I

28:31

remember my sister Sydney was freaking out about

28:33

the coronavirus in January,

28:35

Like she was buying you know, hand

28:37

sanitizer wipes and all that in January,

28:40

and I was like, you're kind of crazy, but

28:43

you other than my sister, like you

28:45

were one of the first people that I was like, yeah,

28:47

you're taking it seriously. I'm going to take it seriously

28:49

too. And so it can't feel good. And I know it

28:51

doesn't feel good being the people

28:54

who are doing everything right during

28:56

the pandemic and still having

28:58

to deal with if your

29:01

people who are also doing as

29:03

best as they can to distance

29:05

and to wear masks and sanitize and clean, who

29:09

are who are suffering from this? So tell me

29:11

about your emotions, like you know, when you found

29:13

out and and and when things

29:15

kind of we're getting a little bit more serious with

29:18

my grandma. It all. It's

29:21

it's crazy how fast things happened

29:23

with this virus. You know. I we

29:26

knew like my grandma

29:28

was sick, like she wasn't

29:30

doing her best, but like she's so strong,

29:32

and in my head, I'm like, you almost

29:34

start to believe that they're constantly just going to

29:37

boldos through it and be fine. So

29:40

my grandma heard like, Okay, she's

29:42

she's sick. But then we gotta

29:44

call like Grandma tested positive

29:47

for COVID and we don't know she's

29:49

going to make it through the night, and I literally

29:51

like, sorry,

29:54

here we go again. That

29:57

like broke me because

30:00

it automatically went went in my mind.

30:02

I was like, how did she get this? My

30:04

grandma's nineties six. She's not out,

30:07

she's not out roaming

30:09

the streets, going out with friends, not even going to

30:12

the store, like someone brought

30:14

this into her. And it

30:16

broke my heart because it was like she

30:18

does not deserve this, not that anyone deserves it, but

30:21

I'm like how how?

30:23

And so I that first

30:26

day, like I was completely

30:28

broken emotional. I couldn't think, Like

30:30

it was hard for all of our family because we're like completely

30:33

on edge because we're like we don't know if

30:35

she's going to make it. And within

30:39

like um, within three

30:41

days, she was gone. And I

30:44

think the second and third day I

30:47

started to accept Okay, like I

30:50

don't want to think negatively, but they're telling

30:52

us like she her body is just

30:54

not strong enough to fight it. And

30:57

so I accepted that and from then I

31:00

to just like try to focus

31:02

on her light that I spoke about previously,

31:04

like try to focus on everything

31:09

positive. She's done, everything positive,

31:11

she's brought into your life, the strong

31:13

life she lived, and everything. She spot through them

31:15

like girls tired, Like you know, maybe

31:19

it's unfortunate that this is what took

31:21

her, but she

31:24

lived a good life. And I'm like, she's

31:27

I believe she's with my grandpa again,

31:30

and I try to focus

31:32

on those happy things because if not, the emotions

31:34

will just wreck you, Like I was

31:36

destroyed seeing my mom and my

31:38

siblings and my aunts and uncles and everyone

31:42

feeling this emotion. I was like, this is You've

31:45

got to be able to feel them so you don't suppress

31:47

them. I gave myself my days to feel

31:49

them, and then I was like, okay, you felt

31:52

him. Now you got to just try to focus

31:54

on the positive of it all. And it

31:57

just wants to help makes me want

31:59

to like tell these stories, and I

32:02

wish everyone in the world of selfish.

32:04

There are a lot of people being so selfish in the world,

32:06

and it it makes me so mad

32:08

because I'm like, first

32:10

I didn't know if my dad was going to make it, and

32:13

now I lost someone to it, and that like there's

32:17

nothing like it's not fair. She didn't

32:19

have to go this way because

32:21

of other people, And that's

32:25

just the hardest part to grasp on too, and trying

32:28

not to be angry. It's it's

32:30

hard, but it's still emotional.

32:33

Um and even it comes

32:35

to like we can't even set a proper

32:37

funeral and these things

32:39

because different states have different restrictions,

32:42

Like we have a huge family that's very

32:44

close, like trying to find

32:47

a safe time for everyone to gather, like it's been

32:49

impossible to figure

32:51

out, and trying to get her back to Illinois,

32:54

like it's so difficult, not

32:56

being able to even celebrate her life right

32:58

now. And they're maze person as

33:00

she was. Because the way the world is and

33:04

it's horrible. Don want you have to go through it, but

33:06

it's our reality and then and you

33:09

just got a fine ways to be positive through it.

33:12

So yeah, I'm

33:14

I'm, I'm absolutely with you.

33:16

And I understand every frustration

33:19

and stress and anger that you have and

33:21

the fact that you're as balanced as you

33:23

are now. You know, I I it's

33:25

one of the many reasons why I look up to

33:27

you and I love you, and I and I see you as an inspiration

33:30

to me is that you've always been able to find the

33:32

positivity out of things. You've always been

33:35

able to find the light in situations

33:37

from losing

33:40

family members to just having a shitty

33:42

day. And so it's something that I

33:44

I look up to you and and I admire

33:46

so much about you. Um, like

33:49

you mentioned and like I mentioned, Grandma

33:51

Rose like, to me, it was just there was nothing

33:53

that she was going to

33:55

allow herself to not do if she wanted

33:58

it. You know, she lived at

34:00

a at a hundred miles per hour all

34:02

the time, no limits if

34:04

you like, literally are you were posting stories?

34:07

Um, I think a few days after she passed,

34:09

and it was like literally doing jello shots

34:12

with your your nine year old grandma

34:14

at apart like it was. That's like to me, I know

34:16

I said that twice, And that's probably not the

34:18

best like character reveal

34:21

of of who she is, because she's also like there's

34:23

so many other things that probably show her spirit even

34:25

more. But to me, that is just proof

34:28

that she didn't let anything stop

34:31

her and there was no reason for her to not

34:33

do something if she wanted it. That's

34:35

something that I take away a lot from from Grandma

34:37

Rose as I as I think about you know,

34:39

as I think about her in her life, what's

34:42

something that you'll always remember about

34:44

your grandma? Always

34:46

remember her like her

34:49

willingness, to never ever give up. Ever,

34:53

because of everything I've seen her go

34:56

through, and I mean not see her faith

34:58

and love stick with me, but she literally

35:00

never gave up. And I think it shows

35:02

because she kicked it until she was nine

35:05

six, um, and that

35:07

will stick with me in in any aspect of

35:09

life, career, friendships,

35:11

family, love. Yeah.

35:14

Absolutely well. Uh, I

35:16

know that she loves you. I know that she she's she's

35:18

watching you right now and is so proud of you for being

35:20

the strong willed, you know individual

35:23

that you are. I love you, and and

35:25

I'm going to talk with you in just a little bit. But first

35:27

I'm gonna take a quick break and then we'll

35:29

be talking with Karen about more

35:31

of that true toll of family separation.

35:34

We'll be back, all

35:36

right, We are back. This is alex Iono, and

35:38

this is let's get into it, and we're talking about

35:41

the pandemic and the toll that it takes

35:44

on individuals and on families.

35:46

I just finished a nice conversation UM

35:48

with one of my best friends, Mackenzie Moseley,

35:51

who dealt with loss, dealt

35:53

with her father contracting the virus

35:55

um and and is dealing with not being with

35:57

her family. UM. Which is something that I relate

35:59

to directly. And now I have another

36:01

one of my very very good friends, Karen er lickman

36:04

Um, who is a therapist and can

36:06

give us a little bit more insight on what that true

36:08

toll of the family separation is.

36:11

Karen, how are you? I am doing

36:14

good today, Alexa COVID good

36:18

as of two days ago, Karen. August

36:20

twelve, the U S reported the

36:22

highest coronavirus death rate since

36:25

May. Undred Americans

36:27

lost their lives due to coronavirus. So

36:29

while some parts of the country are kind of relaxing

36:33

their restrictions, we are so

36:35

so not out of the woods like that. It

36:38

is insane how not

36:40

out of the woods we are, and how how

36:42

much you would think we are based off of how people

36:44

are acting right now. Um,

36:47

you just heard the conversation I had with Mackenzie,

36:49

and I've heard. I mean, I've talked to Mackenzie

36:52

so many times, and she's

36:54

cried to me so many times, and I still feel

36:56

so deeply every time she tells

36:58

me, every time we talk about out her grandmother

37:00

or every time we talk about her father, it's

37:03

happened. That's that's just my friend, you

37:06

know. Every person that dies. All hundred

37:09

Americans who died on August twelve

37:11

from coronavirus had a family.

37:13

They had a son or a daughter, or a mother or

37:15

a father, or a brother or a sister, or family

37:17

members and somebody.

37:20

For each of those hundred, at least one

37:22

person is going to grieve that same exact way

37:25

that Mackenzie has to. I

37:28

just I I don't know, I don't I don't even know

37:30

how to feel about that. How do you feel about

37:33

just that that? That's such a sad

37:35

thing to hear, you know, especially

37:39

knowing that it didn't have to get

37:41

to this point. It did not. The

37:44

thing that said also is that there's there is a

37:46

lot of damage that's going on even outside

37:48

of coronavirus itself in

37:51

these times. New York Times has reported

37:53

an unprecedented amount of deaths outside

37:55

of coronavirus. Since March, there have been

37:57

an excess of sixty thousand non

38:00

COVID related deaths, above and beyond

38:03

what the normal average is. I

38:05

want to give a loving shout out

38:07

to one of our producers. If you are regular

38:10

on this show, um, you already know who Catherine

38:12

is. She is the producer of Let's Get into it.

38:15

Catherine has lost since March six

38:17

close friends and family members that are

38:19

not coronavirus related deaths.

38:23

It's devastating to me. I

38:25

remember when we were kind of talking about

38:27

opening up the country again this is probably April

38:29

May, and doctors were saying

38:32

it might we might lose more lives because

38:35

of the effects of coronavirus then

38:37

we will to the coronavirus itself.

38:40

What are your thoughts on that, Karen, It's

38:44

not surprising to me,

38:48

and I've been observing it too, in

38:50

terms of greater numbers of

38:52

deaths from other causes, not

38:54

just from coronavirus, partly

38:57

because the stress

39:00

of living in a day to day

39:02

global trauma is extremely

39:04

hard on our immune systems. It's

39:07

very hard on our nervous systems. We

39:09

are all living with this day to day anxiety

39:13

and being

39:15

under that level of stress makes it

39:17

hard to fight off even a cold,

39:20

right, you know. It's so stress

39:22

in and of itself is very hard on our

39:24

bodies, and we

39:27

are all for the most part,

39:30

having a very difficult

39:32

time metabolizing that this

39:34

is actually happening, So

39:37

I'm not surprised. Also, the health care system

39:40

is completely maxed out, right

39:42

now, so the capacity to provide

39:45

the quality and quantity of care that's

39:48

needed is really limited. Also,

39:51

all the same health disparities,

39:54

the sociological issues in

39:56

terms of barriers to care for

39:59

uninsured people, for people

40:01

living in poverty, for unhoused people,

40:03

for people to color, all those health disparities

40:06

are just magnified even worse.

40:08

So people are waiting until they're

40:10

really sick to go to the doctor, or they're not going to

40:12

the doctor, maybe because they're

40:15

afraid. Um, either

40:17

they're afraid they're going to get it, they

40:19

don't know that they have it. People are afraid to go

40:21

to the doctor, or they are afraid

40:23

they're going to lose their home, or they don't

40:26

have the money to pay for the care that they need.

40:28

So all of those things that have been there

40:30

are still there. I think we simply

40:32

just we as a country,

40:35

we're not ready for this. We

40:38

could have been more ready for this

40:41

with without throwing all of the

40:43

shade ever directly at our

40:45

our government right now, we

40:48

weren't ready for this. Hospital wise,

40:50

beds wise, ventilators wise, um,

40:54

but as as people, we weren't ready for

40:56

this. What are your thoughts there

40:58

were without

41:01

going down the political rabbit hole. There

41:03

were some folks who spoke out way

41:05

early on. That's

41:07

why I was saying, well, you could have been right. So

41:10

like you when

41:12

you have somebody, an intelligent

41:15

voice of wisdom who says, I'm concerned

41:17

this is going to happen, and then that gets ignored

41:20

for all the reasons. Um,

41:24

you know, shame on everybody, Shame

41:27

on them, right, absolutely, So

41:30

it's a little bit like um,

41:35

knowing that drunk driving,

41:38

how many millions of people are killed

41:40

from drunk driving, and then thinking

41:43

that you can drive drunk and you're going to be fine,

41:45

and it's only those other people who have to worry about

41:47

this. Also,

41:50

I was somebody who lived through and

41:52

worked as a social worker during

41:55

the early years of the AIDS epidemic,

41:59

and so at that time

42:01

the country and the world had no way

42:03

of knowing what was going to happen with HIV. Of

42:06

course, obviously a lot has changed now and

42:08

there are people who have lived for decades

42:10

being HIV positive because of advances

42:14

in medical research. But

42:18

um, we should have learned

42:21

from that, right, Like

42:23

even the thing about um universal

42:26

precautions, Like having worked in a hospital

42:28

with work, I worked with pregnant women

42:30

who were HIV positive, and

42:32

the there were people who worked

42:34

in that hospital who still believed that

42:37

um, white

42:40

people didn't get HIV, that had

42:42

our sexual people didn't get HIV, that only

42:44

drug users got HIV, all those things,

42:46

and there was a really strong health education

42:49

push, push for what was called universal

42:51

precautions, which is you can't tell

42:53

from looking at somebody whether they have a virus

42:56

or not. You have to assume that everybody

42:58

is possibly going to

43:01

expose you. And it's the same thing

43:03

now right like we cannot make moral

43:05

judgments. I told you I was going to get

43:07

on the soapbox. I'm sorry, but

43:10

to I guess the short version

43:12

of that messages it

43:14

would be so great if we could learn from

43:17

history, learned from other countries,

43:19

learned from each other, take care of each other.

43:22

And when we don't have

43:24

that shared philosophy of we have

43:26

the rhetoric that says we're all in this together, but

43:28

we don't have the behavior that goes along

43:30

with it, we need that behavior.

43:32

We need to actually be in it together

43:34

and be in it for each other, not just for

43:36

ourselves. Absolutely, and

43:39

I think, uh, it is important to note

43:41

that a great leader not

43:43

only hires or

43:45

has people joined their team so

43:48

that they can turn to

43:50

them for wisdom in the in the fields

43:52

in which those people are experts. But

43:55

a great leader also listens when those experts

43:57

acknowledge that something is wrong. I'm

44:00

gonna leave that at that, okay with you, Karen,

44:02

you mentioned your social worker, you also

44:04

are a therapist and even

44:06

just a great friend with a lot of knowledge. You're

44:09

seeing this effect that's that's every day.

44:11

What are you seeing that that maybe

44:14

isn't getting you know, broadcasted

44:16

out on on every news station in the media.

44:18

What are you seeing as a therapist the effects

44:21

that it's taking on on individuals. So

44:24

a couple of things. That's such a good question. One of

44:26

the things I'm seeing is people's

44:30

I mentioned earlier about this kind of day

44:32

to day trauma is

44:35

um that people need the

44:37

tools and practices to

44:40

manage the kind of uncertainty

44:43

and fear that we're living in. So like

44:45

the nature of my work with people has changed

44:48

somewhat to incorporate more

44:50

of relaxation techniques

44:52

and stress reduction. And I

44:55

tell people to go hug trees a

44:58

lot, because we have

45:00

a human need. We have this thing

45:02

called skin hunger right there, are people

45:05

who have not touched another human being

45:07

for six months. Nobody has hugged them for

45:09

six months, nobody has held their hand

45:11

for six months. Trees

45:14

do not have coronavirus. Grass

45:16

does not have coronavirus. Go

45:19

hug a tree. And

45:22

now I sound like a crazy tree hugging

45:24

Californian, but I literally

45:27

have a group text thread with three

45:29

of my colleagues and we take pictures

45:31

of our crazy ass is hugging trees and send

45:33

them to each other. I was gonna say, you're

45:35

you're San Francisco is showing,

45:39

but you know what it's like desperate

45:42

times. Absolutely.

45:45

I mean, look as as somebody. I didn't see my

45:47

family for the first three

45:49

months of the pandemic and then

45:52

I didn't see my family again until

45:54

two weeks ago. So I

45:57

I absolutely get it in the hugging.

46:00

You know, Luckily I have my girlfriend who I

46:02

can who I can hug, and I can hold and and

46:04

we've been quarantined for quite a

46:06

bit, uh together. Um,

46:08

So there's a lot of people who don't have that,

46:11

And and that's the thing is is there's I

46:13

want to be very very clear that

46:16

I do not view

46:19

my situation as the worst situation.

46:21

I know, there are so many worst situations

46:23

going on. Even talking with Mackenzie, my one of

46:25

my best friends, I acknowledge

46:28

that I am so in your words,

46:30

Karen Covid good, I am so Covid

46:33

lucky that any that none of my direct

46:35

family has contracted

46:37

the virus, that none of I haven't had to

46:39

deal with family

46:42

loss the way that Mackenzie has

46:44

are the way that so many other Americans and so

46:46

many other human beings have had

46:48

to deal with. You know, but there is

46:50

still a lot of of

46:53

of atrophy two that's

46:56

that's going on as just human beings.

46:58

I think one of the biggest ones is like the fear to

47:00

go outside. When when Los Angeles

47:03

opened up again, I was invited

47:05

to so many hangouts and I

47:07

thought, yeah, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. And as

47:09

as I was getting ready to leave to go to these barbecues

47:12

at these parties, I literally like

47:14

I couldn't I could not go. I got

47:16

I got so afraid that I just stayed inside.

47:19

Do you think a lot of people are going to experience, you

47:21

know, agoraphobic um thoughts

47:24

or become a little bit more homebound

47:27

because of this traumatic experience, and if

47:29

you think so, you're shaking your head. Yes. So I want to then

47:31

direct the question to a new question, what

47:34

are steps that that we as human beings can

47:36

take to avoid this? You

47:38

know, one of the things I think that's helpful is

47:41

to It's been helpful

47:43

for me personally, is to check

47:45

in with myself, like what what do

47:48

what do I care about, and what are the steps

47:50

that I need to take to take care of myself.

47:52

So not not that I don't care

47:54

about other people, but like I am

47:57

incredibly blessed to be able to work from home.

47:59

I don't take that for granted at all. And

48:02

I mostly do not go. I

48:05

have hardly seen people, and

48:07

partly because it stresses

48:10

me out. So I

48:12

need to be calm because I need to be

48:14

there to support other people all day.

48:17

And so I've been very

48:20

compassionate to myself, like

48:22

there are other people who are going to the

48:24

store, or it's I

48:26

can't I gotta go in five minutes,

48:28

I'm out, Like I'm not cruising the aisles,

48:31

I'm not like trying any new vegetables,

48:33

like none of that I'm in, I'm out, or and

48:36

so when people say

48:39

I can't go out or I'm not ready to

48:41

social distance, like to

48:44

not not judge themselves or each

48:46

other, right, Like, do you think it's a little bit you

48:48

think it's a little bit less of like try

48:50

to avoid being agoraphobic and more just

48:52

hey, let's just be patient with the people who are

48:54

dealing with those thoughts that is that, that's what you're

48:56

saying, and with ourselves, right,

48:59

like thing about that so to be able

49:01

to say now, I don't want to

49:03

take that to the other extreme, which is like

49:06

we have a friend who's going to the casino

49:09

today and when I heard

49:11

that, I flipped

49:14

out. I was like, why is she you

49:16

know? And then I was like, you know what this

49:18

is not I can't. I'm not in charge of

49:21

of her behavior. It's not in the

49:23

same city. So that's good because otherwise I

49:25

would be like, you know, you're over there

49:27

and that's it. But um,

49:31

with that piece about people being afraid to go

49:33

outside or even like when

49:35

things do improve, having

49:37

physical contact with other people is going to

49:39

be anxiety producing and scary and hard.

49:42

Um, we feed

49:45

our neighbors a lot. We have you know

49:48

about how we love to feed people, So we have some an

49:50

elderly neighbor in particular, who literally

49:52

like cannot make toast for herself, and

49:54

so I do say to

49:56

her, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if you

49:59

don't wear a mask, I can't bring you food. That's

50:01

I mean, not that that's good, but like it

50:03

is, we have to find ways

50:05

to inspire each other. And I

50:07

think because as a country,

50:10

we historically are known for this.

50:13

You be whoever you want to be, you know, the American

50:15

dream. You can be anything you'd like, you can follow

50:17

your own rules. This is what America is. It's

50:20

kind of developed this individualistic

50:22

mindset that it's will me, but if I

50:24

need to do what's best for me. And

50:26

and I think I remember reading it in an

50:28

article earlier on in the Pandemic

50:31

where they talk about that's why America is dealing with

50:33

it in such a hard places, because all these other all these other

50:35

countries New Zealand and in Germany

50:38

and all of these countries that that have had

50:40

much less traumatic experiences

50:43

with the virus is because their whole

50:45

goal is as a country, it is

50:48

you. They act in the thought of other

50:50

people. And I think that that's something

50:52

that we're really struggling with right now. UM,

50:55

I want to put a pin in that because I don't want this

50:57

whole episode to be just a

51:00

just everything negative. There's a lot of

51:02

positive things that are coming out of this pandemic

51:04

that we need to really search for, and it takes a lot of

51:06

time to search for. Um. You know, for me personally,

51:09

I got to focus a lot more on my own health,

51:11

on my own mental health. I don't

51:13

really say this much because I think it's still

51:15

something pretty sensitive to me. But I've

51:18

started for the first time my whole life.

51:20

I've probably needed it for a long time. I

51:22

started seeing a therapist, you know. I

51:25

I I helped build a garden

51:27

in the backyard. So many things that are positive.

51:29

You started your your cooking with with Janna,

51:31

and I'm sure that you and Janna get to spend even more

51:34

time together. That's a big thing is a lot of people

51:36

are reconnecting with their their

51:38

nuclear families. That a lot of fathers

51:41

don't have as much time to be fathers. Uh.

51:44

You know, we we have a very

51:46

mutual close friends slash family member

51:48

who is getting to be more of a father right

51:50

now, and get getting to love that and feel

51:53

that you know we have we have so many

51:55

positive things. Um,

51:57

what are other positive things that you're feeling that people

52:00

can look for, Because I know that there are a lot of people who don't

52:02

feel those things, but they're there. And

52:04

I think that would be important right now to give some advice

52:07

to the listener who feels like there

52:09

is nothing positive coming out of this pandemic

52:12

for me. What are some some other

52:14

options that that maybe they can help see

52:16

if those fit their lives. That's a

52:18

great question. And one of the things I see

52:21

that's connected to this question about what

52:23

are the strengths and resources and the positivity

52:26

is that coronavirus

52:28

has pulled back the

52:30

veil, so to speak. That there's whatever

52:33

has been under the surface is

52:35

now at the top and exposed,

52:37

and some of that is painful and terrible,

52:40

and some of it is beautiful and

52:42

amazing, and that there's an invitation

52:44

to actually be more

52:47

authentic human beings with each other.

52:49

Um, to claim your joy. Like

52:52

I watched Muppets Now last week

52:54

on Disney Plus and I

52:57

laughed my head off for two hours, and

52:59

I was like, I am claiming my joy

53:01

in this moment because I don't know how I'm going to feel in

53:03

five minutes or five hours or whatever,

53:06

but claiming your joy.

53:09

Um. And I'm thinking

53:12

of things and sharing ideas with each

53:14

other about what are the things that help

53:17

you to have a break, to relax

53:20

to um. Okay, true story.

53:23

The other day, I was feeling really down

53:25

with all of this because remember that this is what I

53:27

talked to people about every day, all day.

53:29

And I was in the kitchen and I just felt really

53:32

blue, and literally my

53:34

iPhone switched on

53:37

and your song without You came on,

53:39

like like my phone knew, like I

53:42

could not make this up. And

53:44

I had my ear PUDs in because I

53:46

was waiting for a phone call, and so I just started dancing

53:48

around the kitchen. I

53:52

love that for more reasons than just because I

53:55

think it's so that's so important and so crucial.

53:58

And I would even go so far to say that

54:01

my advice would be be selfish

54:03

to a degree, but that degree

54:05

is a really high degree. I would say, be as

54:08

selfish as you need to be,

54:10

as long as you are not

54:12

breaking the stay at home

54:15

you know, social distancing rules.

54:17

I know that so many people who are like I've been

54:19

texting people and I've gotten responses back that are

54:21

like, hey, thanks for texting me. I'm

54:24

not talking to anybody right now, and

54:26

that's okay. You know. One of

54:28

the biggest things that I think I've also been

54:31

understanding recently is acknowledging

54:33

that everybody is going through this right

54:35

now. Everybody is going

54:37

through this right now. Everybody has the same

54:39

cast of characters, the same um

54:43

uh you know, the same scenery around

54:45

them. It is just completely warped, and

54:48

everybody's dealing with that. Just

54:50

as much as a father gets to be a father, the

54:53

father is also dealing with the stresses of

54:55

being a father, not just the fun times of playing

54:57

catch and having fun and playing games. They're also

54:59

deal with tantrums. They're dealing with

55:02

you know, they're dealing with the stresses. And

55:04

some of us are still working. By the way, Karen,

55:06

I know you work almost every single day since

55:08

the pandemic started. I've worked almost every

55:10

single day since the pandemic started. Mackenzie.

55:13

When the pandemic first started, you were working, uh,

55:15

day and day out, still on your six hour

55:18

weeks. Catherine, who's doing this. We've been

55:20

working on this podcast this whole time, so Catherine

55:22

has been working. I think it is so important

55:24

for us to be as selfish as we can

55:27

while following the pandemic you know, quarantine

55:30

kind of base rules, and

55:33

also while acknowledging and

55:35

accepting and respecting that every

55:37

other human being is allowed to be

55:39

that same level of selfish.

55:42

And now we we so need another word

55:44

in our vocabulary that means

55:47

prioritizing your own needs

55:49

selfish, but a new word for self

55:52

right exactly if anybody has ideas for other

55:54

words, like let us know, or

55:56

maybe we should just reclaim selfishness,

55:58

like selfishness is okay total and

56:00

then we come up with a new you know, like

56:03

we say, hey, there's there's selfishness, and

56:05

then there's like thoughtless selfishness, you know what

56:07

I mean, or something like that. I don't know, but I agree with you because

56:09

I think selfishness has a bad connotation

56:11

to it that isn't necessarily true. Um.

56:13

I was thinking about what you were saying about family

56:16

earlier, and I was thinking for

56:18

those of us who are close to our families

56:20

and we're geographically separated, like I

56:23

haven't seen my family in almost a year,

56:25

and it is heartbreaking for me.

56:28

There are also some people who

56:30

do not get along with their families. Who are

56:32

in abusive families or

56:35

addicted families who are stuck in the house

56:37

with those people. So it's

56:40

recognizing that there are so many different kinds

56:42

of human suffering going on right now

56:45

and um and that

56:47

there is no um competition

56:50

for who has it worse. There are definitely

56:52

people who for economic reasons,

56:55

etcetera, who have it worse for

56:57

sure, But UM,

57:00

I know there are people who are stuck at home

57:02

in an abusive relationship, or

57:04

who are two parents who

57:07

are both working and who are now having

57:09

to have their kids doing school at

57:11

home. Like it is hard for

57:13

everybody right now. I would love

57:15

to close out this this um

57:18

section of this episode with your

57:20

advice for somebody who's in a

57:22

situation and now, because

57:24

of the pandemic, is locked into a

57:26

situation that is not necessarily

57:29

healthy for them. Do you have any advice for that? Tell

57:31

somebody, Talk

57:34

to somebody, Tell somebody,

57:36

even if you don't have any practical

57:38

options right now, but somebody

57:41

that you can confide it. I don't care if it's a

57:43

one eight hundred toll free number

57:45

or if it's a clergy

57:47

person or a therapist. There's tons of

57:49

free mental health services right now. So

57:51

you don't have to be emotionally alone

57:53

in it. Tell somebody that

57:56

is coming directly from a therapist, and I

57:58

am going to use my name to back that up.

58:00

If you are dealing with whatever you're dealing

58:03

with, you know it could be anything from mental health,

58:05

it could be physical health. It could be

58:07

dealing with family or friends, dealing with abusive

58:09

situations or or

58:11

circumstances. Please go

58:15

and and reach out for help, even if it's

58:17

d M N ME. I will be I've been checking.

58:19

I've been so vigilant about looking at my d M

58:21

S. Please do not deal

58:24

with this by yourself. You don't have to, and

58:26

and nobody wants you to. We want

58:29

you to get the help you need here, especially

58:31

at let's get into it. So um, I'm

58:33

going to close out this break by saying, if you

58:35

need help, go and get that help.

58:38

We're gonna be back in just a bit and we're gonna be talking

58:40

about what we can do now. And

58:42

you'd be surprised by some of these answers, So don't

58:44

go anywhere. All

58:46

right, we are back. This is let's get into it. And

58:49

it's been a heavy episode, Oh my gosh, like

58:51

I've needed to have like some real breathing

58:53

breaks to to kind of re

58:56

gather myself together. We had an

58:58

amazing conversation with Mackenzie. You're here now,

59:01

UM, so thank you you and Karen. I want

59:03

to thank both of you guys for your openness, your vulnerability,

59:06

and your um your willingness to

59:08

just to just share your

59:10

real thoughts and feelings. Um,

59:13

it's been heavy, but like a good heavy, like I want to I want

59:15

to clarify it's not like a bad heavy like it's

59:17

It is just it's a topic that needs to

59:19

be talked about and we need to address it. The

59:21

first thing that I want to talk about is don't

59:23

do anything nothing. This

59:26

is a vacation, you know, stay at home,

59:29

don't go out if you don't need to wear your

59:31

mask, which not only protects

59:33

you but protects other people, wash your

59:35

hands, all of those things. Guys,

59:37

why do you feel like this is so hard for some people?

59:40

I mean, I know, don't get me wrong, I'm I I am.

59:42

That's me. Also the guy

59:44

about forty minutes ago saying I

59:47

need to see my family, but I haven't had

59:49

any issues, you know, and and I

59:51

want to try and understand. Why

59:53

do you guys feel like some people aren't getting

59:56

that some people. I think it's

59:58

definitely a some

1:00:00

people. For some people, it's an emotional thing. For

1:00:03

some people, it's a selfish

1:00:05

thing where they just don't care because they don't

1:00:07

believe in the virus. They don't think it's

1:00:09

real, and they're

1:00:11

gonna do whatever they want. I think it's it's

1:00:14

different for it's

1:00:16

different for everyone. I wish,

1:00:19

I wish it was a

1:00:21

thing where everyone's doing their part, but that's just not

1:00:23

what it is. And I think we just have to continue to

1:00:25

like share our stories. Karen,

1:00:27

what are your thoughts about that? Because I feel like

1:00:30

it's this mix of like I I even

1:00:32

after just saying like stay at home, I'm

1:00:34

acknowledging everybody's dealing with

1:00:36

a new pandemic right now and new everybody's

1:00:39

dealing with the pandemic as it is to

1:00:41

them. But can't we all just

1:00:43

listen to what's going on and acknowledge

1:00:46

that if we and if any of us want things

1:00:48

to change, we have to stay

1:00:50

home. We have to stop let it. You know, looking

1:00:53

at New Zealand, New Zealand had a hundred

1:00:55

days of no cases as

1:00:58

a country before ultimately

1:01:00

they caught one on thing. It was like the hundred and second

1:01:03

day, which was sad to see. But we're

1:01:05

looking at other people doing it right. What about

1:01:07

America is not clicking

1:01:10

that same way? I want

1:01:12

to answer from the positive.

1:01:15

Share your coping strategies with each

1:01:17

other. Be creative with each other.

1:01:20

This is hard for everybody, and like

1:01:22

but just being being like, well, I

1:01:24

don't feel like it's like that's not no, that

1:01:27

is not okay. Right, I asked somebody

1:01:29

like how or what is helping you get

1:01:31

through? Let's share our ideas with each other

1:01:33

because people are being amazingly

1:01:36

creative and it is hard. M

1:01:38

absolutely, and I want to clarify

1:01:40

this with this second tip that I have about

1:01:43

what to do right now. It's not about

1:01:46

not leaving ever,

1:01:48

it is not about staying locked in and go if you

1:01:50

we all have to go the grocery store at some point, we all

1:01:52

have to shop for things. If you feel

1:01:54

like you need to go out and see somebody,

1:01:57

this is my tip number two. Hang

1:01:59

out outside hid and hang out at a distance.

1:02:02

Mackenzie, like I've mentioned, has come to my house many

1:02:04

times. She's even come around the gate to the backyard

1:02:07

and we'll sit on the grass at least six

1:02:09

ft apart. I swear we do like twenty five ft

1:02:11

even, and we just say it's six because we're like the uber

1:02:14

or ubers careful. I

1:02:16

have a New York Times article right here about

1:02:19

school outside. They said that

1:02:21

they did a study of seven thousand

1:02:23

coronavirus cases and only one

1:02:25

of those transmissions happened outdoors.

1:02:28

So if you do need to go out, or

1:02:30

if you do need to get some air, I I totally

1:02:33

understand, do it from a

1:02:35

distance, do it from you

1:02:37

know, and and do it outside. Do

1:02:39

it in a space where you don't

1:02:41

feel like you're necessary you know, or do

1:02:43

or do what Karen said, hug a tree,

1:02:45

go out, you know, enjoy nature, go

1:02:48

on a walk, go on a hike, a socially distance

1:02:50

hike or or or uh you

1:02:52

know, drive to the coast and sit. If

1:02:55

you live, if you live near the oceans, like doing

1:02:57

those things feel um, make

1:03:00

life feel a little bit more normal. And that, to me

1:03:02

is is what is the biggest piece

1:03:05

of it for me, is like, do doing things that make

1:03:07

life feel a little bit more normal. If

1:03:10

you feel safer and calmer,

1:03:13

socially, visiting with people on zoom

1:03:15

and you'd rather be outside by

1:03:17

yourself. Do that. If

1:03:19

you are somebody who finds that your

1:03:21

calmer social distance visiting with

1:03:24

people outside, then do that. Um

1:03:27

not. I don't like doing being outside,

1:03:29

like doing social distancing walks, because

1:03:32

every time somebody drifts a little closer it stresses

1:03:34

me out. So I will I will hang out

1:03:36

with you, I'll have cocktail hour on Zoom. But I'm

1:03:38

gonna walk at the beach by myself. And

1:03:41

that's smart, it's healthy. I

1:03:43

want to turn. I want to turn the page a little

1:03:45

bit into the next the next tip, which

1:03:47

has nothing to do with staying home or

1:03:50

what you do for yourself. Um this one's

1:03:52

actually for other people, reaching out to

1:03:54

other people who are hurting. It's

1:03:56

been a big thing for me to acknowledge that as

1:03:58

stressful as my life Phiz and how

1:04:01

my life has been the last six months, I

1:04:04

have to acknowledge that everybody else

1:04:06

is dealing with it in

1:04:09

the same way that I'm dealing with it, but with their

1:04:11

own stresses and their own unique

1:04:13

struggles, and their own unique cast

1:04:15

of characters and their own unique scenery.

1:04:18

I think it's so important, And Mackenzie, you've done

1:04:20

such a great job. Um, what are your thoughts

1:04:22

on, especially as somebody who who

1:04:25

has dealt with a lot this pandemic.

1:04:27

How important to you do you think it is to

1:04:30

reach out to people that you know are hurting and

1:04:32

having people reach out to you when you're hurting.

1:04:35

Oh, it's it's very important. I've

1:04:38

that's actually been something that's helped me

1:04:40

in a way. Um.

1:04:43

I'm just someone who naturally feels better when I'm

1:04:45

helping someone, and I think I stated that earlier,

1:04:47

but I know how difficult

1:04:50

it's been for me. I know the some of

1:04:52

those bad days are horrible and

1:04:54

then the good ones are great, and

1:04:56

trying to bounce those can be so

1:04:59

you can feel so alone, and I know how that

1:05:01

feels, and it hurts. So I'm like, I don't

1:05:03

want anyone else feel like feeling that way, but

1:05:05

I know people are so regardless

1:05:07

of how shitty of a day I'm having,

1:05:09

I still make it a point to reach

1:05:12

out to the people that I know are struggling, even

1:05:14

people that I don't know if they're struggling. I was like,

1:05:16

hey, like, I hope you're

1:05:18

doing okay. Is there anything I can do for you

1:05:20

if you need to call me? And we just need a chat

1:05:23

about what's going on in the world or

1:05:26

other things to get your mind off of it. Let's

1:05:28

do it. And I also like try

1:05:31

to help you because everyone struggles with it differently.

1:05:33

Like I've told myself, like I'm

1:05:36

alone, this is hard, but

1:05:39

it's also important to like spend time

1:05:41

with yourself. It's so important

1:05:43

to be alone with yourself and truly feel

1:05:47

the emotions and learn who you are and

1:05:49

learn how you can handle things alone, even though

1:05:51

it's hard. Doing that has

1:05:54

motivated me more to reach out to people.

1:05:56

And I know I've come to you crying

1:05:58

and upset and struggling

1:06:00

with the fact of being away from my family. But through

1:06:03

all of this and how hard it's been, I've grown

1:06:06

so much since March within myself,

1:06:08

even though I'm still a mess sometimes, but

1:06:11

I can recognize any

1:06:13

negative things are positive things about myself

1:06:15

and trying to trying

1:06:18

to share me with other people and make

1:06:20

sure they're okay and give them

1:06:23

ways that have helped me. So it's

1:06:25

it's so important to reach out to people, and

1:06:28

having people reach out to you goes a long

1:06:30

way. Even someone just saying, hey, how are you doing hi?

1:06:32

That could set my crappy

1:06:34

day to like something so great when you're feeling

1:06:37

alone. So I love

1:06:39

that. I love that. I have one last thing on

1:06:41

my list before I ask you

1:06:43

guys if you have anything for any

1:06:45

advice for other things that people can do during

1:06:47

this pandemic. But my last one is pretty

1:06:49

big vote. We

1:06:51

are in an election year right now, and

1:06:54

this election to me, uh

1:06:56

and I think to a lot of people is imperative

1:07:00

depending on the outcome. You know, we need

1:07:04

we need to choose

1:07:06

the right person this

1:07:08

time around. We always need to every

1:07:10

action, we need to choose the right person. This

1:07:13

time it is it

1:07:15

could be the livelihood

1:07:17

of our of our freedoms, It could be the livelihood

1:07:20

of our country as we know it, especially

1:07:24

with this pandemic. You know, I think you need to take

1:07:26

in um every little

1:07:29

ounce of the last

1:07:31

four years and acknowledge where

1:07:34

we could have done better, where we are

1:07:36

doing fine, where we are doing well

1:07:38

even at and acknowledge

1:07:40

who we think. Uh. And you know,

1:07:43

I would never I'm never going to force the listener

1:07:45

or the people who are here with me, um

1:07:47

to choose, you know, to

1:07:49

vote for the person that I'm voting for. But I do

1:07:51

think it is very important that

1:07:53

we educate

1:07:55

ourselves a lot about

1:07:58

what happened with this pandemic, what's

1:08:00

happened with this civil rights movement

1:08:02

that's going on right now, in the ways that

1:08:05

each of these candidates have reacted

1:08:08

in the wake of those things. UM,

1:08:10

I'm trying to stay as neutral

1:08:12

as I can, because there are some

1:08:15

thoughts and feelings that I feel that I keep

1:08:17

to myself. Karen as

1:08:19

somebody who's also got a lot of thoughts and feelings

1:08:21

that we're going to try to keep to ourselves. Do

1:08:23

you have anything to add to that, UM,

1:08:26

I totally agree with you. Take

1:08:28

action, UM,

1:08:31

and take action in

1:08:33

the service of what you care about. Right

1:08:36

like we people

1:08:38

have fought put their

1:08:41

lives on the line for the right

1:08:43

to vote. Is the system perfect? No?

1:08:45

Is it broken? Absolutely? This is

1:08:48

what we have right now. I have friends

1:08:50

who have already volunteered to be

1:08:52

UM observers and at

1:08:55

the polling places so

1:08:58

that they can make sure that what is supposed

1:09:00

to happen at the polling places is going to happen

1:09:02

on election day. And it's not only

1:09:04

about voting for the highest

1:09:07

office in the country, but it's local voting

1:09:09

also, Like every how different governors

1:09:11

and different mayors have responded, different

1:09:14

congress people have responded to this pandemic.

1:09:17

So so often

1:09:19

we feel like the system is broken,

1:09:21

which it definitely is broken, and

1:09:24

at the same time like, let's do

1:09:26

everything we can, everything

1:09:29

we can, including voting, to

1:09:31

get ourselves moving in the direction

1:09:34

that is about taking care of everybody.

1:09:37

I love that. I guess the last

1:09:39

thing I would say is similar

1:09:41

to something Mackenzie said earlier, actually about

1:09:44

grief and self care, which is having

1:09:47

something that you do every day

1:09:49

that is about being an activist,

1:09:52

right whether it's recycling a bottle

1:09:55

or helping somebody

1:09:57

who's never voted before registered to vote,

1:10:00

or volunteering somewhere or making

1:10:02

food for somebody, or like every

1:10:05

little thing actually does make a difference.

1:10:07

I love that. I love that. I think that's actually a great

1:10:09

way to close the show out. Um,

1:10:12

thank you so much both of you. Again, I said

1:10:14

it before, but I want to say it again. Thank you for being

1:10:18

vulnerable and being open and telling

1:10:20

your story. I think a lot of people are

1:10:23

so used to their own stories right now that

1:10:25

it's important for us to to educate

1:10:28

ourselves on other people's stories, on other people's

1:10:30

experiences with this pandemic. So thank you

1:10:32

both, and it is my favorite time of the

1:10:34

show. Time for some not so

1:10:36

shameless promo. Um,

1:10:39

Karen, you're a pro at this not so shameless

1:10:41

promo. So I want you to plug, um,

1:10:43

whatever you want, whether it be your social media,

1:10:45

I want you to plug what you're doing and work. If you're

1:10:48

looking for some work, I know, if hey, if you're a movie,

1:10:50

if you're working in pre or

1:10:52

post or just regular production on

1:10:54

a movie, I know my girl Mackenzie

1:10:57

is always is always looking for some more money.

1:11:00

Um, So, Karen, why don't you show Mackenzie how a little

1:11:02

bit of not so shameless promo works. You

1:11:05

can find me on Instagram

1:11:07

and Twitter at k e Replenish

1:11:09

or just go to my website Karen Earl Comman

1:11:11

dot com. You get it, but you

1:11:14

get it. You got one for us. Okay,

1:11:16

y'all can find me on

1:11:19

Instagram and Twitter at McKenzie Moseley.

1:11:21

Um can't follow

1:11:24

me. I try to spread joy and light through

1:11:26

all that. Yes, if you are looking for anyone

1:11:28

in production, our post hits your girl up. She's

1:11:31

funny as hell. She's funny as hell. She's really If you

1:11:33

like, if you like my jokes and my humor.

1:11:35

You'll you'll really love Mackenzie. Um,

1:11:37

thank you so much for listening to this episode.

1:11:39

You know you can always find me at alex Iono

1:11:42

everywhere. It's the best part about having last name

1:11:44

that is not normal ai O

1:11:46

n oh, thank you so much for listening

1:11:48

to this podcast. We're we're well

1:11:50

into this podcast and uh

1:11:53

and it's getting more and more fun.

1:11:55

And I'm loving seeing your responses

1:11:57

on what other topics you want me to talk about

1:12:00

on this podcast, so please continue

1:12:02

doing that. If you have the time, please rate

1:12:04

our podcast and subscribe. That is how

1:12:06

we grow. Uh and and thank you

1:12:08

so much for just for just continuing to

1:12:10

listen and and trying to make the world a

1:12:12

better place. I'll talk to you next time. We

1:12:20

really want you to get the help you need, so if you

1:12:22

need help, please seek independent advice from

1:12:24

a competent healthcare or mental health professional.

1:12:27

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1:12:29

those of the podcast author or individuals participating

1:12:32

in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I

1:12:34

Heart Media or its employees. This podcast should

1:12:36

not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,

1:12:38

counseling or therapy. Listening to the podcast

1:12:41

does not established dr patient relationship with

1:12:43

hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into

1:12:45

It or I Heart Media. No guarantee is

1:12:47

given regarding the accuracy of any statements

1:12:49

or opinions made on this podcast. Well,

1:12:51

if that's a doozy