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0:37

Welcome to Alienating the Audience,

0:40

a show that explores the deeper side

0:42

of science fiction. I'm Andrew Heaton,

0:44

the Thinking Man's nerd, and today

0:47

we're going to go to the distant year

0:50

of 2022, where the Earth has a population

0:52

of nearly 7 billion people.

0:57

We're going into the film

1:00

Soylent Green. Isn't

1:02

Soylent Green? No, wait, we don't want spoilers. What?

1:05

Last year, it happened. Oh, we already did this.

1:07

How many? What's the population of the Earth right now? About 7

1:09

billion. Is it? Oh, shit. Oh,

1:12

no. So, uh, you're here. Spoilers. Are we eating each other

1:14

yet? We're not eating each other yet. We're

1:18

okay. You're hearing the voices of

1:21

Dickie and Stone Lynch. Hello. Scottish

1:24

sci-fi extraordinaire twins who

1:26

are frequently on the show. No,

1:28

I'm wearing t-shirts. Guys with a lot of spare

1:30

time. That's what my t-shirt says, yeah. I'm

1:35

glad you bring... The funniest thing about the whole film

1:38

is the introduction, where... By

1:40

the way, Soylent Green, this has been out 30 years. If you've not

1:43

seen it, it's your own goddamn fault. We're going

1:45

to spoil this one. We'll completely spoil this one. It's too

1:47

late. Yeah, so if... Wait,

1:49

is this the one where he's like, I'm your

1:51

father?

1:52

Yes. That was the one. It is. No, it was,

1:55

it was there for a long, right? Oh, they

1:57

blew it up. Yeah. Right. It was damn serious.

2:00

I think the funniest part about the whole film is that

2:03

it is it's set of the year 2022 with Earth population 7 billion.

2:09

They got that accurate as fuck. Yeah, but it

2:11

seems like a doomsday scenario But

2:13

it would be like right now if we made a film

2:16

set in the year 2060 and

2:19

the Earth population is like 50 billion

2:21

like that. That's what they're going for. Yeah,

2:23

can you Unconceivable

2:25

in the time inconceivable amount of people

2:28

which of course must mean Widespread

2:31

immiseration it must mean everybody

2:33

in the world is half starved and living in

2:35

a an awful dystopian

2:38

nightmare state because Well, hold on the people

2:40

using food banks here in the UK. Yeah.

2:42

All right There's

2:45

a recession gatsby and by the way, we're getting heat

2:47

waves. I hope you notice this All right, would

2:49

you would you trade where you are right now to live in 1850?

2:53

Yeah, yeah, maybe you can go yeah Yeah,

2:57

if your goals fought murder those

2:59

not having your figure prints taken. Yes, congratulations

3:02

Are you feeding get away with what do you want to get

3:04

away with robbery? Highly

3:06

robbery, what do you get a steal? There aren't any iPods

3:08

or air conditioning or I could look yes

3:11

But I could steal some jewels and live an opulent

3:13

life You could live an opulent

3:15

life without a Modern

3:17

dentistry like a good ticket. Yeah, I probably

3:20

be dead You don't have any Star Trek the entertainments

3:22

whatever is it your local? There's

3:26

no television in 1850 I'll make a plea

3:28

you'll make a play about our trip. Yeah. Yeah.

3:30

Yeah. I I'm gonna stay right fucking here I

3:33

see right now is a better time to

3:35

be like I'll roll the dice today of 2023 to go back to 18 That's

3:38

fine. I wrote you a letter in the 80s. I'm just it

3:41

should be here by America Yeah,

3:43

like like a Back to the Future 2

3:45

style. Yeah, that's right. You need to come back and get me Here's

3:47

the plans for a time. Let's let's talk about the

3:50

film soil ingredient. Have you all seen it previously? No,

3:52

I've seen it before Maybe I used

3:54

to have it. I'd seen about 10 or 15

3:56

years ago same thing I saw it back when I was

3:58

in New York years ago. It's been about 10 Heartbeats

6:00

against the hull. Yeah, and the reason they've

6:02

taken him is because he has like a rare blood disease

6:05

He's got immunity to but no one on the planet isn't

6:07

because they're overpopulated They want Kirk

6:09

to buying that check. Yeah, and then I think

6:12

I missed this one. No, yeah Oh

6:14

man, he's like doing a tour of like the engineering deck

6:16

and the open a window and there's just like 20 feet It's

6:20

so overpopulated that they're right Lee shoulder to shoulder They

6:23

want they want they want Kirk to essentially pass

6:25

on a disease that wipe out a large portion.

6:27

Oh, wow They're wanting to just have like like

6:29

genocidal population control. It's the mark of Gideon

6:32

I might I'll go back and watch that because

6:34

I think that is all stupid bullshit Sounds like a as

6:36

is the premise to this film sounds like a season Enjoyable

6:40

film but predicated on stupid both I did

6:42

not care Obviously

6:46

for a when is it made this at 70s think

6:49

so it was a just looks

6:51

like like late late 70s

6:54

the actual Execution

6:56

of the you know, you're watching

6:58

a dystopian future. I felt yeah I think the

7:00

film is well, they just do overpopulated

7:02

like stairways and streets and things like that

7:05

the sets and

7:07

Like Paramount battle. I think how about

7:09

what but like still even under construction I think there's

7:11

a lot of they didn't even finish the set so it looks like it's

7:13

a decaying. Yeah future, you know No, no, he was

7:16

a visually well done. Yes Spirit

7:18

and they do a good job with that You feel about the oversaturated

7:21

film like whenever the show to the outside

7:24

because it's what she said There's a heat wave happening.

7:26

I got that much again from the book and Tom

7:28

Hesse is overuse of that fucking rag Oh

7:30

well Quickly with the book one of the

7:32

things that I think is salient in the book It's not brought

7:35

up in the film is that because everybody's just

7:37

kind of going nuts all the time from being hemmed

7:39

in and the heat That somebody will just scream

7:41

riot and then everybody goes like it turns

7:43

into this big rumble So there's just literally like like

7:46

tea in the park society just goes nuts and

7:48

starts murdering each other It's not like purge

7:50

styles just this it could happen at any time We

7:52

want to say ones up to 10 all right everybody's

7:54

at a 10 all the time and that's an interesting construct

7:57

in the book I I

8:00

thought visually it was great. Like, it is really moving

8:02

at the end of the film where Saul

8:04

is in the kill pod and

8:06

he's listening to that classical music and

8:08

he's singing the greenery. Oh, you mean when

8:11

he went to the IMAX? Yeah, when he went to the IMAX.

8:14

The Church of the IMAX, euthanasia.

8:17

Yeah. And he's in there. And

8:19

it is very moving, you see that, and the

8:21

moment where Charlton Heston... He's crying because he's looking

8:23

at meadows and here and forests and... And

8:26

it's moving too, where he asked what Charlton Heston...

8:29

Did you know about this? Do you see it? And he's

8:31

like, I see it. And he's like, I have no idea

8:33

that in the future, not only

8:36

do we not have access to parks and things, but this has

8:38

been kind of eradicated from public knowledge because

8:40

it would make us too jealous or

8:42

something. So he's just grown up in this

8:45

sepia-toned urban wasteland and didn't

8:47

even know that there used to be nature. It's

8:49

moving. I liked the visuals in the film. Yeah.

8:52

There's that... Again, you know,

8:54

Charlton Heston looks like he's always sweating too hard.

8:57

Yeah. The acting

8:59

is so... I didn't think the acting was great,

9:01

to be honest with you. There's a couple of... He plays Charlton

9:04

Heston. Charlton... There's two moments where

9:06

he's getting a drink in the dead guy's apartment

9:08

and goes, you're a dream. But

9:10

he says it's so flat. Like he doesn't...

9:13

Like if you gave me a bottle of bourbon, I

9:15

go, oh, you're a dream. Thank you. Right?

9:19

There's no inflectional change. And then there's

9:22

another moment where he goes,

9:24

hey, where were you when they were out butchering your

9:26

boss? And it's just completely flat. And it

9:28

just... Honestly, it sounds like he's just reading

9:31

a script. I'm sorry, but I don't... Yeah.

9:33

I don't really rate... I'm going to

9:35

probably take a lot of flat for this. I don't really rate

9:38

Charlton Heston that much as an actor.

9:41

He plays that kind of Heston.

9:44

He just plays Charlton Heston, who I seem

9:46

to think is a man. He's a very nice

9:48

guy. He just plays this hard

9:50

man. Just a hard man. And

9:53

you're alpha male. Although I'd like to

9:55

see that Charlton Heston is... The rock-jawed alpha

9:57

male. Right, exactly. He is a... I

10:00

was a shit cop. He's shit.

10:02

He shows up. He's just like, I'm going to steal as much shit

10:04

as I can here. And oh, look, a chick. He immediately

10:07

just takes his eye off the ball. He's got an

10:09

old dude back in his apartment doing all the fucking

10:11

leg work. Right. An old dude.

10:13

There's a sort of, is there a homoerotic leg relationship?

10:16

No, I didn't get that vibe. I

10:19

got a kind of like, uh, like

10:21

a fatherly, I got like an avuncular,

10:24

like, I have, he,

10:26

he's the, they can't afford furniture. So they're going to,

10:29

wow. Could, could

10:31

be as seems as a cop, as

10:34

a corrupt cop, and all the police appear

10:36

to be corrupt on some level is

10:39

that, is that he would have access

10:41

to women whenever really what to, I

10:43

don't, I didn't get that vibe. But he does sleep with

10:45

the gals to the very least he's bisexual. Yeah.

10:48

Uh, I got the impression that, that

10:50

he, he's roommates with this older

10:52

man and that they have a very loving relationship

10:54

in the sense that they've, they've found family

10:56

situation. One other thing I found really funny.

10:59

Um, I don't have it on. Unfortunately, the fob popped

11:01

off for the, I can't, what you call it, but the little

11:03

dial on my watch popped off. But during 2020 I

11:06

made my own watch was one of my projects. You

11:08

made your own watch? Yeah. I bought a kit or a

11:10

styler. Uh, I, I bought a kit and I

11:12

put it together and I made my own watch. Beautiful

11:14

watch by the way. Thank you. Uh, and so there's a scene

11:16

in, uh, you said the fob popped off. Um,

11:19

so, I was helping somebody move

11:21

from hotels to hotels the other day. Did

11:23

I complain about the fob? The person that made it per

11:26

craftsmanship. Yes, I did. Yeah. No, it was fine.

11:28

It's just a strap, um,

11:30

uh, went up against it and it popped off the dial.

11:32

And so now I'm going to have to get it repaired, uh,

11:35

which I will cause it has emotion. But anyway, point is at

11:37

one point, uh, he goes into has to meet

11:39

his, uh, his boss

11:41

and he's like, let me look at your watch. And I'm

11:44

watching him go, the fuck is he doing? He literally just pops

11:46

the back off and he just has like a screwdriver and he's

11:48

just like tapping it. It like, it makes, I'm

11:50

watching this going, this has nothing to do with how watches

11:53

work. His watch repair acting is subpar.

11:55

Pretty subpar. Like I was like, ha ha, I've

11:57

the dirty does this thing now that would have done it. We

12:00

can't reheast in a cruel blizzard

12:02

in the terms of science fiction. He's a fair man. He's

12:04

an old mega man in Planet of the

12:07

Apes. I like Planet of the Apes.

12:09

Part of the fun of Planet of the Apes is it's really camping, so

12:11

you can have somebody that's a little bit cardboard. Right,

12:14

but in this, and he's really, obviously

12:17

someone went Planet of the Apes, there's a lot going on, there's

12:19

a lot to look at when it's just trying to reheast

12:21

and navigating a landscape of really

12:24

overpopulation and oppressive heat and

12:26

not a lot of food. Which by the way, I feel

12:28

like we managed to get that across in the film, that

12:30

everybody is starving and miserable.

12:33

Everybody is not out of work. His job is important

12:35

to him. He doesn't want to lose his job. He has a fairly prestigious

12:38

position. Yeah, but even just as a lowly people.

12:40

Having any amount, and he's not living in opulence,

12:43

but having any type of... He's got a

12:45

room. Yeah. Right? He's

12:48

sleeping in a stairwell. Exactly. or

12:52

there's that... I think the two, the

12:54

three touching moments of the film, or the one we already mentioned

12:56

where he sees green for the first

12:59

time or he sees greenery for the first time, there's

13:01

a moment where he and

13:03

Saul are eating. They've got the full food. I

13:05

believe that was... And they're just... There's

13:08

like a good minute and a half where they're just... I wasn't even scripted.

13:11

...appreciating how, and you're like, oh

13:13

shit, this is the equivalent of everybody eating

13:16

bland protein bars for years on

13:18

end and then having something that

13:20

has taste to it before. Saul

13:24

is like an ecstasy eating lettuce.

13:26

Like it's lettuce, which is just an expensive way to transport

13:29

water. Now, can I... Who

13:31

was the actor I've forgotten who played Saul?

13:34

Saul's Jewish name. I want to say

13:36

Andrew G. Robinson. Saul Roth. Saulman

13:38

Roth. Edward G. Robinson. Andrew G. Robinson.

13:41

Edward G. Robinson. And this was his last film.

13:43

He was literally dying of cancer as the film

13:45

was happening and he suggested that

13:47

scene. Oh, really? Of them just chowing

13:50

down on all the food. But

13:54

it... I mean, this brings me back to one

13:56

of the main reasons I have a problem with this film,

13:58

which is that... It's films of

14:01

this era where it's the sound

14:03

design. I'm

14:06

eating food fully on

14:08

every single footstep. Every

14:12

footstep has to happen. Every

14:15

sound has to be overly processed

14:18

and on display. And

14:21

there's a feeling of... It

14:24

bumps me out of the story. It's just like real

14:27

life. Too much. You just don't need that much of that

14:29

level of sound effect. And I think it's films

14:31

of that era that do this. Interesting.

14:33

I thought about that. It kind of bumps me out a little bit.

14:35

It's like, you know, when he's putting his holster on and you can

14:37

hear all the clicks and the straps and things like that.

14:41

The way they've done that with

14:43

the... I

14:45

guess the food scene

14:48

and the drinking and they're both smiling at each other.

14:50

And it's not abstract. It's

14:52

forced. It just feels a little bit forced. But again,

14:54

I can understand how in the reality

14:57

of that situation, that a banquet

14:59

of this kind would be treasured.

15:02

And it was a good improv for them to do. I just feel

15:04

like it could have been done differently.

15:06

But maybe that's just me coming in as,

15:09

you know, someone that was born after the film was made.

15:11

It's maybe... Well, I'll add the

15:13

third, I think, poignant moment emotionally, which is very

15:16

brief, is he's walking down the street

15:18

and there's a lady. There's a dead body tied to

15:20

a child. Oh, yeah. He steps over it, doesn't he? And

15:23

weirdly, she's smiling. She looks really

15:25

pleasant, but presumably she starved

15:27

to death or something. We don't know. And he ends up un-classing

15:30

the child, going to the Catholic

15:33

Church and just giving the kid over. I had forgotten

15:35

about that. Yeah, that is... You

15:37

do really get a sense of how overabundant

15:40

and cheap life is in this universe. Right.

15:43

The stairs one is the best. I mean, can you imagine

15:45

sleeping on stairs every night? Sleeping

15:48

indoors, indoors, outdoors. And even

15:50

then, there's a level to it. If

15:52

you're outside, if that's...

15:54

I think there's a curfew in place every night, isn't there? No, no, no, but

15:56

if you're outside, there's people sleeping in stairs outside,

15:59

open to the... in the oppressive heat. People

16:01

that are sleeping inside tend to have a guard,

16:04

an armed guard, protecting them. Right. Oh

16:06

yeah, there's a scene where the guy comes in, or Heston

16:08

comes in to somebody's apartment

16:10

complex. It's the piece

16:13

of furniture, their term. It's the bodyguard. Who's

16:16

a black lady that, I can't remember

16:18

what the connection was, but yeah, there's a

16:20

bodyguard sitting. That's the furniture for the

16:23

bodyguard of the guy that gets murdered. There's

16:25

a guy in the stairwell who I think actually does great

16:27

acting where he's got a big ass gun and

16:29

he's just like, this is a very respectable establishment

16:32

and he sounds like a bellhop. He's just

16:34

armed with teeth. I think even

16:36

in his stairwell, there's

16:41

a guard sitting with a gun, with

16:43

a machine gun. There's nobody sleeping

16:45

in the stairwell in this other one that you go to. He's slightly

16:48

more well off. Yeah,

16:51

sleeping in a stairwell pretty bad. And all the people in

16:53

the church as well. Yeah, just

16:56

overloaded in the church. So what's

16:58

the premise here? The premise is that the population

17:03

of the planet is... Slowing to an insane 7

17:06

billion people. They

17:08

do say the population of New York is 40 million,

17:11

which is higher. I don't know what the New York City is

17:14

proper. I think New York City is probably like 13 million

17:16

for the greater area. I don't know what it is. I feel like if

17:19

New York City is 40 million, 7

17:21

billion, there's probably

17:24

a large patch of New York. Nobody

17:26

lives out in the countryside because it's all farms, right? Right.

17:28

It's under armed guards like a fortress. You cannot

17:30

get out of the cities. So all these 7 billion

17:33

are in cities. Oh, okay. No, this

17:35

is fascinating. So it's not that the planet is teeming.

17:38

It's that basically people have been artificially

17:41

herded into these cities and they're just forced to be on

17:43

top of each other. That makes more sense. I think the way with the

17:45

economics is that even

17:47

the super wealth that are in the cities probably

17:49

aren't your most wealthy people on the planet. They're probably living

17:51

on a farm. They're out in like Oregon. They've

17:54

all got their own 40 million

17:56

acre ranches.

18:00

are the rural areas of

18:02

the planet uninhabitable? Oh,

18:05

maybe like, oh, like maybe there's

18:07

a nuclear war that we didn't see. Right? Oh,

18:10

okay. Yeah, there's like climate changes happen to the point

18:12

where... Well, this is what they're seeing in the film is the

18:14

oceans are dried up and all the planktons die. Right,

18:16

right. Yeah, which is why... Which is why

18:18

you... Soylent Green, which is supposed to be planktons

18:20

giving up, and this is the instigating factor in the film.

18:23

The moment that kicks everything off is the

18:26

rich guy gets whacked because

18:29

he is unreliable.

18:32

He's clearly bothered by the fact that

18:35

turns out Soylent Green is people and he's bothered

18:38

by it and he's probably going to come clean or he's losing

18:40

his grip or something, so they have him killed. And

18:42

what we discover through the books that Saul

18:45

goes through is that the plankton is unsustainable,

18:47

it's declining, and so they're switching production over

18:50

from plankton to people in terms of Soylent

18:52

Green. There's other Soylent Yellow and Soylent...

18:54

And Soylent, the name... You know where the name comes from,

18:56

it's supposed to be in Malgumoth, Soya and

18:59

Lentils. Yeah, right. This is what they're probably

19:01

saying it has been grown to be these... So

19:03

basically vegetarian burgers we have... Yeah,

19:05

why... But there have been eating Soylent, two

19:07

other kinds of Soylent before this. Is that in

19:09

the film? What, Soylent? So

19:12

in the book it's Soylent and Lentils,

19:15

you point out. That's where Soylent comes from. Yeah. They

19:17

don't spell it out in the film, but that's where the Portmanteau comes

19:20

from. There are two other kinds of Soylent,

19:22

and then they're saying that... Was it Tuesdays or Soylent... Yeah,

19:24

Tuesday is the Soylent Green Day. Tuesday is the Soylent Green Day. That's when

19:26

people get given their Soylent Green. Yeah. But

19:29

they... Like at the beginning,

19:32

Governor Santini, and they're like, this interview

19:34

is sponsored by Soylent Yellow and Soylent Red.

19:36

And I'm like, I don't think you gotta advertise rationed

19:39

food when everybody's starving to death. I

19:41

don't think you gotta promote the marketing

19:43

of this stuff. So maybe I was only... I

19:46

felt like I was watching the film, but I feel like I

19:48

kind of missed a lot of this. There's

19:50

like different types of Soylent, and there's the

19:53

whole thing of... It really seems

19:55

like he goes to an apartment to investigate

19:58

the murder. Obviously, there's some... shady

20:00

stuff going on. Also

20:03

apparently there are just in-house courtesans

20:07

that you inherit as part of your flat.

20:10

They're called furniture. If you want to.

20:12

Women again, as a lot of sci-fi

20:14

there, women are really subjugated to just

20:17

a shitty existence. Your

20:19

choice is to be a prostitute

20:21

or you are maybe

20:24

a well-taken care of prostitute or

20:26

comfortable. Although in that particular universe,

20:29

you can go sleep on this. We don't know what the compulsory

20:31

element is. It might be that you're welcome to go sleep on the stairs

20:33

whenever you want. But if you want, you can also

20:36

stay here and be a flat or an apartment

20:39

prostitute. Most people are like, God take that.

20:41

I'll take that deal. I would.

20:43

I do that now. If

20:46

anyone's out there looking for some furniture,

20:50

you stopped even by booking places

20:52

to stay when you come over. You just stand on the street with

20:54

a card. They used to call

20:56

me the jackhammer

20:58

back in uni. I'll stand in the corner

21:00

of the living room doing comedy. I like that. He goes to

21:03

the apartment. He immediately goes on the rob

21:09

and is sort of doing his job. He's more

21:12

interested in this prostitute

21:14

who he starts buying eventually. Without

21:17

even the scene where they have sex,

21:19

by the way, he's just like, go in the bedroom.

21:22

She just without bidding just takes her clothes off. Yeah.

21:25

He comes in and she's not when he walks into the apartment and she's

21:27

having all her prostitute friends over and I'd be like, yeah,

21:29

I'd go to the bedroom. You, you, you, you.

21:31

Oh, no, he does do that but doesn't he? He's next

21:33

more than one. Does he? I don't think so. I think it's

21:36

just her because they, they, why didn't

21:38

he do that? Charles, the bellhop

21:40

character, really like there's, this

21:42

is an odd thing in the movie. I don't know why they put this

21:44

in. His name is just Charles. He

21:46

has no surname. Charles has to ask me, he goes,

21:49

perfectly legal. So this guy that for some

21:51

reason has no surname comes in and like smacks

21:53

around the apartment prostitutes and

21:55

then Charlton Heston comes out in a fresh

21:58

post-coital moment to like

22:00

tell him to fuck off and leave the prostitutes alone.

22:02

Because he's got a spot for it. But is it? There's nothing

22:05

really to do with the plot.

22:07

It's got nothing to do with the soil and green and

22:09

the conspiracy and all that stuff. Well,

22:11

I think it does illustrate that you're

22:15

in a world where either women

22:18

are treated as in-house

22:21

prostitutes that are so low ranking they're literally

22:23

called furniture. I mean, like,

22:25

or alternately, if they're not forced to do that, the

22:28

world is so horrible that anybody that's remotely

22:30

attractive jumps at the chance to become

22:32

furniture. And so it's good at communicating the dire

22:35

straits that we find ourselves in. It is good at

22:37

communicating that. It is also an opportunity

22:39

for Charlton Hessen to get his shirts off and

22:41

then a certain dominance over another male. Yeah,

22:45

okay, yeah. Just say him, just

22:47

say him. The alpha male thing of Charlton Hessen? He's

22:50

gotten his shirt off, he's had his way with a woman,

22:52

and now he comes out and is a bigger man to

22:55

the lesser man. I think he's had that right into the script.

22:57

I have no idea. You need to read the book. Probably

22:59

would help. I'm just

23:02

saying, I mean, okay, I'm coming at this as like, I

23:04

will watch Charlton Hessen's film, I've got nothing against

23:06

the guy, except that I think he's

23:08

probably a bit of a shitty actor. I wanna say

23:11

in the book, and I might be confusing this, but

23:13

I wanna say there's a character that's

23:16

like 90, but you can get plastic

23:18

surgery such that it makes no difference. Oh, really? And

23:21

that she's got like- I feel like that's another story.

23:23

Is it a different one? There's a character that's got

23:25

like electronic

23:28

nipple things that basically can,

23:31

like she's got like a thing in her pocket where she hits a button

23:33

and it makes it look like her nipples are erect, and she'll

23:35

talk to guys and then turn it off so that she just immediately

23:37

deflates and to try and ruin their- Where

23:40

was this in the film? Is not, definitely not a film. Is

23:42

this a book you're writing? Nope. Nope.

23:45

I mean, granted, 20%

23:47

of all my books are describing nipples, but

23:50

no, this was back during my sci-fi book

23:52

club and I was reading this, it might be from another book, but I

23:55

seem to recall there being a character like that. I will

23:57

finish it and let you know. Okay. So

23:59

he- So he does that, where does he pick

24:01

the books up from that he gets? Where does he

24:03

find those books? He finds those in the apartment,

24:06

hands them off to his learned

24:09

wiser roommate. He's called a book, that's

24:11

his job. Right. Because

24:13

it sounds like he's sort of his partner and works with police force.

24:16

Yeah, he's like the

24:18

letters, maybe the impression

24:20

that Tom Heston's character can't read

24:23

or he's not very studious. He's

24:27

a physical guy, he's not the brain.

24:29

So

24:34

while Saul's reading the books, what's

24:37

Charlie Heston's character's called again? The book's name

24:39

is Andrew. I remember

24:40

the character's name

24:42

in the film. Thorne? I think his

24:44

name? Thorne, yeah. He goes off and shakes down another

24:47

prostitute for

24:49

some strawberry jam. Just

24:51

a spoon of strawberry jam. Just who's making

24:54

the strawberry jam? Strawberry jam

24:56

is dogs. No, I think

24:58

it's probably real strawberries. It's

25:00

just a luxury good. So while, yeah, he's still making the

25:02

strawberries and the glass jars.

25:05

So while he's, so Saul's reading

25:07

the books and then Saul goes to this council of elders

25:10

thing. Yeah, I think court.

25:13

Court and gets a little bit more information to the point

25:15

where he becomes suicidal. He's

25:17

found out what Soil and Green is. At

25:20

no point does Thorne actually

25:23

do any detective work to the point where he

25:25

figures out a conspiracy. He then follows

25:28

Saul to the IMAX, right?

25:30

And doesn't do anything. He does go

25:33

into the Soil and Green processing plant. Wait, afterwards.

25:35

After Saul tells him what Saul says,

25:38

Saul tells him, he whispers it to him and

25:40

then... He says, you've got to prove it against him. You've got

25:43

to prove it against him, Evan. And he does not. He goes

25:45

there, gets rumbled and gets

25:47

in a bit of a chase. He's shot to

25:49

death before... Is he shot to

25:51

death before? They're kind of off with a stretcher. He's shot. He's

25:54

dead. He's fucking Soil and Green,

25:57

mate. Yeah, right. I'm

25:59

just saying that... He just

26:01

shakes in a couple of prostitutes, steals

26:03

a spoon, tries to stop his flatmate from

26:06

dying, fails at that, discovers a secret.

26:08

Instead of gathering evidence like a good detective,

26:10

he goes right to the source and you see that's a really

26:13

poor story. I think he's just thinking he's

26:15

a shit detective and I think you're right. He's

26:17

clearly corrupt. He immediately got sidetracked

26:19

onto buying him prostitutes and stealing strawberry jam.

26:24

Thank God no cops in the history of my republic

26:26

or your island have ever been corrupted in such a way.

26:29

If he had blown the roof off of it and

26:31

blown it wide open, they'd be doing anything about it? No,

26:34

I feel like the conspiracy was probably too big. I

26:36

feel like the fact is he started killing workers.

26:39

It can't be as he's doing it. I think

26:41

obviously you've got the people at the IMAX

26:43

right there taking the bodies away, they're able to transport

26:46

the bodies to the plant. And then there's

26:48

a whole separate bunch of people that are, it's all automated and

26:50

they're mostly, there's a few guys. Oh you think no one actually really

26:52

knows? I don't think it's... It's the thing of any conspiracy.

26:55

If you involve more than 10 people,

26:57

it's not a conspiracy at that point. You

26:59

wouldn't be able to keep on the route. When I was growing

27:01

up, I don't remember the context, but dad would occasionally

27:04

say three can keep a secret if two were dead. It

27:06

was one of the maxims that

27:08

a judge can pass on to me. And

27:11

I think he's right about that. You couldn't keep

27:13

him on the route. In the film you get the distinct impression

27:16

that a tiny handful of people know

27:18

this, that the

27:21

aristocrat that's killed is one of like maybe 10,

27:23

he's on the board. The board knows about

27:25

it. But I'm with you. The people

27:27

who know where the bodies are going can't

27:29

know where that actually is. You think

27:31

it's compartmentalizing

27:34

the point where any conspiracy has to

27:36

be like that because there'd be too many people that would

27:38

know about it. Those bodies were on a ramp on

27:41

a conveyor belt. It's all automated when he goes in for a bit and he

27:43

doesn't see anybody for a while. Yeah, but the conveyor

27:45

belts go into a big vat of what

27:47

presumably becomes soiling green and those

27:49

workers are on him violently from the start. No

27:51

one that's not involved in conspiracy is

27:54

that... No, that's a good point. If I were in a chocolate

27:56

factory and I saw the intruder, I

27:58

wouldn't be like, Kill him! Yeah,

28:00

right. It's easy to turn Hershey illegally.

28:03

Yeah, exactly. But it's,

28:06

yeah, I think wherever the bodies are coming

28:08

in, like, people are working the processing plant, but

28:10

they don't know where the source is coming

28:12

from. Oh, so there's a small

28:14

blinkers on me. Come on, wake up. So

28:16

you can't have that many people. My weird

28:19

thing about this someone, I watch this. You're supposed to be feeding them steaks.

28:21

They're not going to eat solid green. When

28:24

I, my everything, I remember this

28:26

horrible universe I would. Would you eat solid green? Yes,

28:29

of course. You always meet other people? Are

28:31

my options starving to death and living on a stairwell?

28:33

You could join the conspiracy and have steaks, Gatsby.

28:36

Probably what I do. I would

28:38

probably start walking around killing people

28:40

and cannibalizing them myself. So I don't know where my food's

28:42

coming from. No, you know it's locally

28:44

sourced. Yeah, you don't want any, uh,

28:46

drug addict. Free reign. Yeah, I don't want to be

28:48

eating anything that's too far. When I

28:51

watched this 15 years ago, it was self-evident

28:53

that the conspiracy that is making

28:55

people into solid green is evil because they're cannibals,

28:58

therefore they're evil. Now, having

29:00

been through a gamut of philosophical

29:04

and economic training, I watched it and went, good

29:06

for them. I think that like, first

29:08

of all, in this world, there's too many people about the problem, we're

29:10

going to solve the problem. Yeah, there's way too many people. There's

29:13

not enough food. The oceans are

29:15

dying and people are meat. I

29:17

would absolutely say in this scenario. Wait, wait, are you talking

29:19

about the film or real life? Oh, okay. In

29:21

the film. I don't think that anything like this would ever happen

29:23

for reasons we can get to in a minute. In

29:26

a film where this Malthusian hellscape

29:28

has come to pass, I'll

29:32

elaborate in a minute, but in this

29:34

world where there truly

29:36

is a dearth of food and too many people, I

29:38

would say it would be unethical to waste meat, including

29:41

human people in that situation. They

29:44

should absolutely be processing them. The only

29:46

bit that I have a problem with is that they're

29:49

lying about it, but they're not killing people. It's

29:51

not they're farming people. They're

29:54

not, Thorne predicts that at

29:57

the end of the thing, but they're not raising

30:00

people for meat just when they die. They,

30:02

and then here's the other thing. You get to pick the time of

30:04

your death and you die in this incredibly dignified,

30:07

easy manner. I think that's terrific. At

30:09

the IMAX. At the IMAX. Yeah. Like you're

30:11

like this, this guy who's old and probably doesn't have a lot of

30:13

years left anyway decides to go there. Like,

30:15

uh, the kind of meat you want to be eating. Old

30:18

meat. Yeah. Even the tournament

30:20

of crackers. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,

30:22

presumably they're infusing it with like, I don't know, carbohydrates

30:25

or something. Just spread it out more. Dehydrating.

30:28

Um, but, but I, but it, it's, it's theoretically

30:30

like, you know, you get these horrible situations where a few

30:32

years ago, uh, that soccer team crashed in

30:34

the Andes. And 20 years ago, maybe

30:37

it was a rugby team. It was a rugby team.

30:39

Yeah. And they came, it was like 40 years ago, 40 years ago. And

30:42

they crashed in the Andes and they were there for a while

30:44

and they were like, look, we got to eat the dead bodies. They didn't want to do

30:46

it, but they were going to we said, let's go. It's

30:48

called a life. If we're ever on a plane and

30:51

there's an issue. Fucking just, you

30:54

better keep an eye on me because I'm

30:56

going to be starting people before the play. Yeah. I'm

30:58

picking the menu before the plane even hits the ground.

31:00

I think there'd be a funny sketch by the way of like, look, I don't want to

31:02

be the bad guy here, but we got to draw stars. They're like, we've been

31:05

here for three hours. I

31:09

mean, if the lights are flickering and we're still on the time

31:11

I eat it. But like it, but

31:13

in that Andy scenario, I think that that was

31:15

the responsible ethical thing to do it's gross

31:17

because we've got taboo about it. But if I'm

31:19

in the Andes and I'm going to starve to death and we've got

31:22

bodies laying over there, eat the bodies for Christ sake. Yeah, they

31:24

weren't killing anybody. They were already dead.

31:26

And then they started with people they didn't know and then they moved their

31:28

way there and it was horrible, but they were

31:30

able to survive as a result of it. I would, it

31:33

would, it would seem to me to be more ethical to process

31:35

that excess protein and keep

31:37

people alive than to have mass

31:40

starvation. Well, I'm happy about it.

31:43

In that scenario, is there death accreting the corpses

31:45

of loved ones and family and people

31:48

that have got lives and things? But, but

31:50

are they not processing it? Are they not? You see

31:52

that they're waiting for people to die, but they're

31:54

not because take it

31:56

in reverse. What happens? No,

31:59

what happened? What happens when you cram all

32:01

the population into a city? People

32:04

are going to die.

32:05

Well not just that. What

32:07

we were talking about in the book, whereas people are

32:09

rubbing elbows with each other so much that they riot. What

32:13

happens at the riots? They get fucking picked up by

32:15

dump trucks and fucked in the back. Where do you think

32:17

scoops are going? The scoops. So you

32:19

think maybe this is actually like they're intentionally

32:21

setting the stage for a necessary death in order

32:23

to harvest the people? I only thought about it when you

32:25

said that they're not processed in them, but it's like well if

32:27

they are packing them into these cities

32:30

to the point where they're rioting and they can go, well

32:32

you were rioting so you go and dump truck and now you're in

32:34

the city. Do you think it's

32:37

possibly potentially like a little stuff filmed

32:39

with

32:40

Matt Damon?

32:41

Elysium? Yeah. Oh Elysium.

32:43

Or the Warburg. No it's Matt Damon. Elysium

32:46

is the one where robots are fighting in space

32:48

and Jodie Foster has a blonde helmet.

32:52

Anyway, maybe the super rich

32:54

are living in the rural areas,

32:57

eating baby deers

32:59

and stuff like that and living an absolutely utopian

33:02

life and they're just going, well let the poor

33:04

just eat themselves. That's

33:06

an interesting fact. We don't see another

33:08

thing. We only see, we just

33:11

see the perspective of maybe five

33:13

characters in New York City. We don't know what's going

33:15

on elsewhere. I think that would be interesting

33:17

to explore. In silent amber. And

33:20

the final one, silent red, where they put

33:22

a stop sale. Yeah. Backwards.

33:25

Okay, so that being said, Malthus, this

33:28

Malthusian hellscape, it's a fun movie

33:31

but the underlying premise

33:34

to it I think is one that is bunk. And again,

33:36

it's gone back years and years and it's

33:38

always the same premise and it ends up causing needless

33:41

human immiseration. So Malthus

33:43

is a 18th century,

33:45

I think, member of parliament and

33:48

what Malthus basically says is- He's

33:51

a band. No, I'm joking. Yes, he's a member of the band parliament.

33:53

We're the smokes if you want to go that direction.

33:57

Malthus looks at the starvation that's

33:59

going on. Ireland during the famine. And

34:01

he goes, look, here's the problem. People

34:04

basically are like deer. And if people

34:06

have too much food, they reproduce

34:09

enough to absorb all the food, and then they starve to

34:11

death anyway. So if you try to

34:13

rectify the situation in Ireland by providing

34:16

more food, what will the Irish do? They'll just breed

34:18

more, and then there'll be even more people starving

34:20

to death. It's a sad thing, but the truth

34:22

of the matter is that you have to rely on

34:25

some amount of famine to keep the population in check,

34:28

otherwise it will become even worse. Or it

34:30

was bullshit. Or regulatory calling over. And

34:34

it was bullshit. Parliament went, oh, good

34:36

call. We just won't do anything then. And they could have. They could have

34:38

saved a lot of people's lives. And it's

34:40

predicated on multiple fallacies.

34:46

The big one is that if we have, you

34:48

know, if we just keep going, we have economic growth that

34:50

the planet will become unsustainably large. Like, Dickey,

34:53

you and I went to an effective altruism thing the other night

34:55

where they were talking about this the other day. It

34:57

was in the morning and we were both hungover. It

35:00

wasn't the best thing. It was all good call. Yeah.

35:02

We probably should have just got a full breakfast.

35:05

But like, in reality...

35:08

Well, it won't be for knowledge. In our world,

35:11

that we live in the real world, probably

35:14

peak fecundity is going to hit

35:16

around 2050, and global population

35:19

peak will probably be around 2100 and it's going

35:21

to keep going down after that. Yeah. And

35:23

the reason is that as... After the war? Well,

35:25

no. As societies get affluent, the population

35:28

rate declines. Yeah. So like, if you're

35:30

living in a subsistence agricultural state

35:33

where you have to have 15 children,

35:35

otherwise you starve to death because they're your field hands

35:37

and also your infant mortality is so high that

35:39

you want to have a bunch of kids because you know two or three are going

35:42

to die. You have a bunch of kids. When you get into an

35:44

industrialized modern

35:46

economy, what tends to happen is

35:48

that... 2.4 children? Yeah. Families go... If we

35:51

have five kids, we can never get to go on holiday. If

35:53

we have two kids, we go on holiday. You

35:55

need 2.3 to maintain the population. 2.3

35:57

children born per one.

36:00

woman on average. Britain

36:02

is below that. I think it's like 1.7. All of

36:04

Western Europe is

36:06

like that. America would be like that, but for

36:09

immigrants coming in. The only reason that demographically

36:11

we're still expanding is the immigrant population. And

36:13

that happens whenever you get economic growth. So

36:16

in the future, if the economy just kept going

36:18

along, the population will

36:21

go down and it'll decline. So you wouldn't get to

36:23

some like 15 billion points. What's

36:25

going to happen? I don't know what

36:27

the – it's either 8 or 9 billion,

36:30

but like we'll probably be dead

36:32

by the time this hits, but the next generation

36:35

will probably live through peak population

36:37

of humanity on our planet

36:40

unless, you know, 1,000 years ago to Mars or something. You promised

36:42

me after the ethics lecture

36:44

interview that we would live to see it. You

36:48

didn't promise anything. We might get robot

36:50

bodies. We're hard. There's

36:52

also – there's some promising stuff that you might be able to

36:55

expand lifespans to like 120 that could happen. Yeah,

36:58

let's do that when there's community most of you already.

37:00

Yeah, I want to do that when I was in my 20s, not when

37:02

I'm at the ass end of my life, you

37:05

know. Give me the extra 20,

37:07

30 years at the start. That does sound better. I'd rather be 20 for 30

37:09

years than 100 for 100 years – Yeah.

37:14

– than 100 for 100 years. But this is all roundabouts to saying

37:16

like there's – Somebody else. There's always

37:19

this really deeply present mindset

37:21

in doomsday sayers that

37:24

humanity is like deer and

37:26

if we're left unchecked,

37:29

we're just going to swell and expand to the point where

37:31

it's awful and miserable and we all start to get – I

37:33

don't know where COVID happens because there's too many people

37:35

and you need to do spacing and all that kind of stuff. This is

37:37

the first thing that I saw when I came out of Shilding

37:40

and lockdown the other year with Charlotte Green was,

37:43

well, no, just that – no, I wouldn't be meeting people at that point.

37:45

They're all riddled. With

37:48

all the spray shields and the dots for standing

37:51

and it's just – you've got to stand all this distance apart

37:53

and it's just like, oh, because there's too many

37:55

people and we're spreading a disease to each other. percent

38:00

just push a button. What

38:02

was that comic,

38:04

sorry that TV show about the comic book that predicts

38:07

the genocide of... Oh, Station 31

38:09

or whatever? No, the Americans remade it as heroes.

38:12

No, not heroes. Oh, Utopia.

38:14

Utopia. I don't know this one. Yeah,

38:17

it's a good one. Brilliant,

38:19

I didn't watch the American remake but it's a

38:22

bit brilliant. There's

38:25

a society that have planned to

38:27

randomly select a

38:30

specific genome or

38:33

section of humanity randomly

38:36

and they will live but a virus will wipe

38:39

out the rest of the population. It doesn't wipe out the rest of the

38:41

population, it makes the rest of the population infertile.

38:43

So you're not killing anybody but you're just not allowing them to reproduce

38:46

and then in a generation that have only one

38:48

percent. But there's a conspiracy within the company that they decide

38:50

to make it Romany Jepsis

38:53

or something. So more Thanos bullshit.

38:55

This is all because I've never seen it but isn't this the Thanos

38:57

thing is that there's too many people? Oh, he wants

38:59

to get out of the magic gauntlet that will wipe out

39:01

half of all life instead of creating double the reason.

39:04

Dumb fuck. Yeah, for two reasons

39:06

that's stupid. I've not seen because I don't know Marvel.

39:08

Well, for two reasons it's stupid. One of them

39:10

being that in like our generation there's just going

39:12

to be as many people. Yeah, also if you've got a magic

39:14

glove that can kill off half the population could you also just

39:16

turn all the uninhabited rocks into like lush

39:19

planets that we can harvest for food? Exactly.

39:21

But the other bit too is like there's this idea. So he was

39:24

a mad titan. The more people

39:26

we get the less resources we have. The

39:28

human experience has proved that that's completely incorrect.

39:31

Like we have more people now than we've ever had. We have more resources

39:33

than we've ever had. We have more food now than we've ever

39:35

had in all of humanity. People are. So we have more starving people

39:37

than we've ever had. I will

39:39

say proportionally it's lower than it's ever been.

39:42

So if you go back to 1820, 80% of

39:45

the world's population lived below the

39:47

poverty threshold. That is to say like crippling

39:50

like children starving to death, people that are permanently

39:52

emaciated level of poverty. And

39:55

in our last 200 years that's

39:57

flipped. Now 80% of the population is above

39:59

the poverty. threshold and in our lifetime

40:01

about 50% of the world. That was globally.

40:04

Yeah, globally. So there remains

40:06

starvation but the percentage

40:09

of the globe that's starving at any given time is nothing

40:11

compared to what it was 100, 200 years ago. Alright.

40:14

Well, if they're starving we should just feed them to themselves and not start setting

40:16

a problem. Well, we should continue growing

40:19

the economy to help raise them out of penure. Well, yeah,

40:21

but what about, okay, so that takes, you're

40:23

saying that for starvation and poverty wise

40:25

that you can never

40:27

have too many people. Essentially. Never

40:32

have so many resources will become so stretched

40:34

that we'll have to start eating ourselves. I always

40:36

have extra people just in case you need to turn them into food. Right,

40:39

yeah. But what about a virus? I don't think

40:41

you need to worry about it because again as the

40:43

population becomes more

40:46

affluent it's going to naturally, like affluence

40:48

is the best birth control. So like affluence

40:50

will automatically limit the

40:53

fecundity of the population to where you don't have to

40:55

worry about. I

40:57

mean, if Africa and Southeast Asia continue

40:59

to economically develop they're going to

41:02

naturally have their population replacement

41:05

rate drop off just as it's happened in Canada, America,

41:08

Britain and France and all that kind of stuff. So I don't think you got

41:10

to worry about it. And up

41:12

until now the more people we've had the more stuff

41:14

we've had. We've never run out of a non-renewable resource.

41:16

We've only run out of renewable resources. I'd still

41:18

kill 90% of the population. You

41:21

would? You'd be poor. There's

41:23

a lot of assholes, man. Do you think 90% of the population's

41:26

assholes? I think 95%. Ironically,

41:29

that's the part that a lot of people like to eat the most.

41:31

Oh, the asshole? Oh, God. Oh,

41:34

wait. How did that keep it light? That's

41:36

a joke. It was a joke, okay. Oh, right,

41:38

yeah. I just like to keep it light. Anything else about the movie?

41:40

What do you think we're going to talk about? Brock Peters, is it? Brock

41:43

Peters, isn't it? Brock Peters is in it. Brock Peters

41:45

is in it. Brock Peters is in it. Did you see him

41:47

play? I think

41:49

he's a Charlton Heston's cop

41:52

boss. Oh, right. Admiral

41:54

Cartwright. Admiral Cartwright. He's

41:57

always played a corrupt dude. Oh, he's not

41:59

corrupt in the movie, actually. He used to

42:01

kill a mockingbird as well. You get the impression that he's

42:03

been either bought off or he can be bossed

42:05

around by the powers that be in the

42:07

film. He's not too... Do

42:09

we think

42:13

that the dying

42:15

thorn in the church,

42:19

screaming at the Silent Groom's people, is

42:21

him blowing the lid

42:23

off of it? Or do you think there's just going to

42:25

be some jack-beaded stormtroopers coming

42:27

to that church and create a lot more food? I

42:30

don't think it would make... Right now, theoretically,

42:32

if we were walking down the street and a guy that had been

42:34

shot was screaming out hamburgers or people,

42:37

I wouldn't go, fuck, no! We

42:39

can't eat hamburgers? I

42:42

don't know so much. I'm only hamburgers

42:44

for a week until I forget how delicious

42:46

hamburgers are. I

42:49

think paper armies might be people,

42:51

squirrels. The only thing that it's

42:53

a bit of an animal, right? They

42:56

don't see what animal or what bit.

42:59

It does raise the question, the odd thing about that,

43:02

I just finished reading 1984 again. 1984 is

43:05

this incredibly regimented... Have you changed

43:07

the book since you read it last? Yeah, they updated

43:09

it. It's now 1987. It's a lot

43:12

quicker to read. Yeah, yeah. Oh my

43:15

God, good pull. If

43:18

you're in the middle party or the inner party,

43:21

they have your life down to a T, right? Because

43:23

in this world of Soylent Green,

43:26

it's just this spillage

43:28

of chaos everywhere. One

43:30

would think in that kind of place, I would think conspiracy

43:32

theories would be rife in a situation like that

43:34

where there's widespread... Do they have

43:37

a way of communicating them though? Like

43:40

you could just talk to a dude on the staircase.

43:43

You know what, I think these people aren't running the world in our best

43:45

interest. I would say, who's the

43:47

company that makes Soylent is the company,

43:49

right? There doesn't seem

43:51

to be much in the way... There's police and there's Soylent.

43:54

There doesn't seem to be much government. It's not a democracy

43:56

anymore for sure. So who's

43:59

conspirus? who you making a conspiracy

44:01

theories about. I don't think people are

44:03

some sort of other them. Yeah,

44:05

just like just authority. But the only

44:07

authority seems to be, there's no local council,

44:10

you know, there doesn't seem to be anything other than. There's these elders,

44:13

the. That's the courts, but I mean,

44:15

there doesn't seem to be any sort of judicial proof there. I was just

44:17

confused then, because Saul refers to the lady

44:19

as your honor, implying she's a judge,

44:22

but they're hanging out in the local library. Yeah.

44:24

So the court, either the courts got abolished

44:27

and he's just sort of giving her the honorific or. Other

44:29

than the police coming and disposing of you, I don't think there's

44:31

much judicial process. I don't think there's

44:33

any

44:34

prisons.

44:36

I mean, there's definitely prisons, because I think probably if

44:38

you commit a crime, off you pop.

44:40

I would think, yeah. Get in the shop. Yeah.

44:44

You know? Like when you go back in history

44:46

to like, I don't know, like 1600 or before

44:48

that, like life is so

44:50

incredibly cheap. I don't think that we can really

44:53

even comprehend how cheap life was prior

44:55

to modernity, where if you did

44:58

anything bad, like I mean, we're here in Edinburgh.

45:00

They used to do what they called lugging, where

45:02

if you shoplifted anything, they

45:05

would hammer your ear

45:07

into the door of the Merckett cross and leave

45:09

you there for a couple of days to teach your lesson. So you can

45:11

either, if you got tired enough that you dropped,

45:14

it would rip your ear off and it would just be hanging there on

45:16

the door. Or you could just stand there

45:18

at a kind of crouched position. Probably take a piece. They

45:21

pelted you with rotten fruit or

45:23

molested you or whatever. And then there

45:25

were a bunch of things. They just murder you for it. Like

45:27

if you did anything that, I mean, it was

45:29

like, you know, now we've got felonies and we've

45:31

got misdemeanors, but back in the day,

45:34

like the death penalty was used very wildly. I

45:36

think you should bring that back. Yeah. Whoa.

45:39

What? And then turn you into a... For the smallest

45:42

crane. Like in that Star Trek episode, where

45:44

T and G, they go down to some plant and

45:46

it's really, really wonderful. And he's like, how is this so

45:48

great? And they're like, no, we can kill anybody for anything. Well,

45:51

we... It's a fraction. Falls into a garden and then

45:53

they're like, nope, you're dead. Yep. You

45:55

fell into a garden, therefore... Prime directive broken.

45:58

They missed a trick there. Cause that would have really... There's

46:00

a character that we didn't need. What I'm saying

46:03

is I think they should bring up my killing. Make

46:05

there only one punishment and then you'll see

46:07

crime drop right off. Yeah? Yeah.

46:10

I believe it. I believe it. You know what I'm saying?

46:13

So it can't be true. False. It's gotta be true. Right?

46:15

Oh yeah, they did have a need then. Right, exactly.

46:18

But yeah, I think you

46:21

make that the worst, one punishment

46:23

for every crime. I'm not going to shop with

46:25

them. Well, why the cops? You know what?

46:27

I'm not a fan of the death penalty. That said though,

46:29

I would probably be more scrupulous with my taxes

46:32

than I currently am. If I thought, like right now

46:34

I'm like joking with you. I can

46:36

write that off. I can write that off. But then I'd be

46:38

like, oh. No, but I don't want to try and get rid of that. When

46:41

he goes, when Thor goes through the... I'm

46:43

joking, of course. The police, are there not

46:45

people having statements taken and things like that?

46:48

Are there not people reporting crimes? I think that's probably more

46:50

of an error and, you know,

46:52

you know, they're just, why have the cops? What are the cops going

46:54

to do? That's your enforcement control.

46:57

Right. That's your enforcer. They're

46:59

literally just riot control. Yeah. And

47:01

then what? Whenever a higher up gets

47:03

killed or... How much crime do you think is

47:05

happening with the people that are in the streets? A

47:07

lot of vagrancy. Yeah. Well,

47:10

yeah. Well, it also might be... They might be doing

47:12

regular cop stuff. It might just be that they've got a drop

47:14

in the bucket. I mean, listen... Like the resources are too spread.

47:17

If you were that hungry all the time, right?

47:21

This is it. If you were that hungry all the time, I reckon

47:24

there's people probably walking about eating other people already.

47:27

Getting rid of the food. Starting the problem, right? They're just

47:29

like, I'm fucking starving. There's a person that can't defend themselves. I'm going

47:31

to kill that person and eat them. I'm

47:33

surprised, like, cripples... And people were like... At least

47:35

we're not cripples. People were like... If somebody's like,

47:37

soil and green is made out of people, you're eating people, we're

47:40

like, we already fucking are. We already eat people. See,

47:42

this would have been a fun twist in the film if it turned out the cops were there

47:44

to stop people from eating each other. That

47:46

would be cool. But at the same time, soil and green isn't. It's like,

47:48

oh, we could just cut out the middle man. We don't have green

47:50

because... We don't even need to profit. We're probably wasting energy that could

47:52

be put into food production. I'm

47:55

surprised there isn't more of a market for, like,

47:58

you know, children and... Oh,

48:01

Baby Stays Best. Right, yeah, exactly. You

48:03

ever seen Snowpiercer? Uh, yeah.

48:06

Baby Stays Best. I forgot about that. Chris

48:08

Evans, right? Do they eat kids with that one?

48:11

Yeah. I forget. And then

48:13

they start cutting off their arms to eat the arm instead of killing a baby,

48:15

you know? Right, yeah.

48:18

And then they are eating these all like

48:20

soy blocks or whatever. I think it's Snowpiercer and other. It's

48:23

really good. I saw the film, there's a TV

48:25

series. Yeah, there's a TV series. I watched

48:27

it recently. It holds

48:30

up, no, no, the movie. But it seems

48:32

not just Soil and Green but on a train. No.

48:35

I think that Snowpiercer's... No, no, the protein blocks

48:37

they've eaten are made out like bugs. So

48:39

Soil and Green I think is a fever

48:42

dream about overpopulation whereas

48:44

Snowpiercer's really an analogy

48:46

for inequality. I think that it's much more

48:49

about societal inequality. Oh, because the train was like stratified.

48:52

Exactly, exactly. It's about like class stratification

48:55

and like there

48:57

are comparable elements and that both are predicated

48:59

on a zero-sum world where there's

49:01

a limited amount of resources and if

49:04

you're getting more resources it means I'm getting less resources

49:07

which I also have a fundamental problem with. We don't

49:09

live in a zero-sum world but they're dovetail

49:12

but they're not the same. What

49:14

do you mean? If someone has something that I don't

49:16

have then I don't have it. What do you

49:18

mean? Really? I

49:21

can't tell if you're baiting me. I'm absolutely

49:23

baiting you. I just drew that line in and you

49:25

went right for it. We'll wrap up

49:27

in a minute unless this turned into an economics lecture

49:29

which I feel like I've already done it. I apologize for. If

49:33

you go back to pre-Adam

49:36

Smith, pre-capitalism, feudalism, we did live in

49:38

a zero-sum world. The economic growth every

49:40

year annually was like 0.1%. That

49:42

is to say that just nothing was being

49:44

made in all of the resources that were. If

49:47

you were rich under feudalism it's because

49:49

you had a bunch of land because all wealth

49:51

was tied to the land and if

49:53

you had more land then somebody else had less land. So it

49:55

was a zero-sum world. If you were a feudal lord you

49:57

were rich because other people were poor. longer

50:00

live in that world anymore. We live in a world where you

50:02

can create affluence. There's more divide

50:04

affluence. There's other wealth

50:06

is tied to other. Yeah exactly and you

50:08

can also create it. So like theoretically if

50:11

I build a house and stone pays me

50:13

to build the house for him, stone gets

50:15

the house and I get the money. We've created wealth.

50:17

So it's not that we had to divide it, we literally

50:20

created it. So you could continue. There's somebody else they're

50:22

filming you building house, they're creating contact,

50:24

they're getting... Yeah. Yeah there's other ways

50:27

to create wealth. And then the bank owns

50:29

the house. I don't understand how it works. Yeah

50:31

it's complicated but the main thing is you can either divide

50:34

the pie or you can grow the pie. So the movie...

50:36

If you're not looking at a zero-sum world you can just grow

50:38

the pie. If you can grow the pie or what

50:40

was the other one? Divide the pie. Yeah. Why

50:43

does he have to eat people? Where

50:46

was all the pie? Good point.

50:48

Basically what we're coming back to is that you think the story

50:50

is bullshit it would not happen. I think

50:53

it's a fun fever dream that is not...

50:56

It is not a cautionary tale. It is

51:00

a what-if we lived

51:02

in the universe like this. I

51:04

think in the movie Tuesday is Soiling Green

51:06

Day and I think Wednesday is People's Steak

51:08

Day. I think it feeds a little

51:10

bit of it and he goes you're eating people

51:12

they're gonna go we know we

51:14

do all day. Right. I think

51:18

they were already cannibals. Just to clarify,

51:20

last week or last year Charlene

51:23

Heston as a cop was

51:26

found in a church screaming about Soiling Green. Yeah.

51:29

It's been a year because

51:31

it's 2022. Are you still eating Soiling Green? Am

51:35

I... You know that Soiling Green

51:37

is people. Are you still eating Soiling Green? Of course. Has

51:39

that started? Or have you been about eating

51:41

people right out? We've missed an ethical

51:43

problem in the film. They're going off to

51:45

come out and tell all the vegetarians that they're not eating Soiling.

51:49

That when they get really massed Yeah. They got a lot

51:52

of lawsuits on their hands. You

51:55

didn't mean this whole time. Ultimately the company is

51:57

guilty of fraud. Yeah. That's

51:59

the biggest crash. That's the biggest crime they've

52:02

just not been honest about their food sourcing

52:04

and label transparency. They

52:06

should be... That's a very good point. There's

52:08

legal issues here now. What about the allergens on that thing? Sorry

52:10

to bring this in at the end, but there's legal issues with

52:13

this. Yeah, the legal issues

52:15

are the problem. Everything else, I think the other like...

52:17

I don't think that factory's safe either

52:20

because I'm sure he's just popping off. He's

52:22

killing people less than he really is. There's safety reels

52:24

missing. Right, yeah. There's no safety reels.

52:27

Those workers are probably just falling into the machinery. I

52:29

mean, it doesn't really matter. Yeah, yeah. The

52:31

fact that you're going to fall to the right

52:33

the way you label the factory. Oh, boss, I lost a

52:35

finger at work. It's just like... Doesn't really

52:38

matter. I think there's a lot of blankets going into the

52:40

machine as well. Right, well, I think if you're eating people's

52:42

sheets are probably a problem. I was thinking about that because

52:45

the bodies are coming in with the sheets, right? The sheets

52:47

must be edible or they must

52:49

be made out of like... The human bodies

52:52

are edible. Right. You're worried about

52:54

the sheets? Well, hold on now. Here

52:56

I want to sit down in my nutritious bar of soilless

52:58

grain made out of people and there's a bit of cotton

53:00

in it. I can't process cotton. You can't eat

53:03

cotton, right? So I think the sheets are made out of something

53:05

like it's made out of like a starch sugar or something

53:07

that can be reclamation. I just don't think

53:09

that would be the biggest giveaway is like you're lying there in the

53:11

IMAX and you're like, wait a minute, is my blanket

53:13

made of rice paper? I

53:15

don't think there are any environmental health officers

53:18

in the future or last year. Yeah.

53:22

Right. Real quick, did you know that

53:24

with chocolate and things, there's like an acceptable

53:27

in real life, there's an acceptable amount of bugs and

53:29

ratchet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As long as it's lower

53:31

than 1% or whatever. I love Snickers

53:33

and there is that urban

53:35

mess of like my friend of a friend that found

53:37

like a mouse's head and the Snickers

53:40

like the skull in there. Well, I still

53:42

eat Snickers. Yeah. You

53:45

know? I went to... I saw Pat and Oswald

53:47

do a gig in Dallas a couple of years ago and I

53:49

don't remember the name of the comedian that opened for him, but

53:51

she was I think from Taiwan and she

53:53

was talking about how like Americans find

53:56

like a blue like... They're

54:00

like egg fetus is

54:02

really gross like like there's a particular

54:04

thing in Southeast Asia where it's a it's like a Chicken

54:08

zygote that they eat and they're gonna be Americans like

54:10

oh gross And she's like you realize

54:12

the chicken McNuggets are just like beaks and

54:14

anuses right yeah I'd be like pulped and

54:17

fried and like delicious way worse for

54:19

you or like big grocery Yeah, I think we'll go

54:21

ahead and wrap up unless y'all

54:23

have any other thoughts you want to bring up I felt

54:26

like maybe I was a little bit too harsh on the

54:28

film. I mean as a Thought

54:30

experiment or uh as it

54:32

was you call it a fever dream. It doesn't

54:34

really go anywhere does it It's just yeah, I just

54:37

again. I thought I was watching a cop doing

54:40

a shitty job and an old man Finding

54:43

out the truth and just despairing

54:45

and nothing really happens nothing happens

54:48

again It looks good for the time

54:50

that was made and I think they do well and giving

54:52

you that sense of dread and overpopulation Yeah,

54:54

that's all fine. It's executed well that way,

54:57

but yeah in terms of plot story There's

54:59

not much happening is there I think it's a fun film

55:02

I'd kind of put it in the same category of Logan's run

55:04

Yeah, sort of like a full dystopian thing

55:06

and I enjoyed it. I think it's a fun film I

55:09

just I just I'm not worried about it, but

55:11

in terms of the film itself. It was it was cool

55:13

to watch

55:14

mm-hmm

55:16

Well

55:16

in greenest people Tuesday's selling

55:18

green day Charlton green is people

55:20

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