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and conditions apply. Tonight

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on All In. We will not

0:30

walk away. We will not bow

0:33

down. The Biden speech defies expectations.

0:36

So at odds with every day

0:38

Joe, the AP affectionately called it

0:41

feisty. And Democrats

0:43

drive home the contracts. That

0:45

was an embarrassment last night. Get

0:47

lost. You're a joke. Tonight,

0:51

the evidence that the incumbent is on the run

0:53

is not a joke. Tonight, the evidence that the

0:55

incumbent is on the right path. Plus,

0:58

why even MAGA World is befuddled

1:00

by the Republican response. Right

1:04

now, the American dream has turned

1:06

into a nightmare. And

1:08

why the President's supreme confrontation could

1:11

be an even bigger deal than it looks. And

1:15

with all due respect, Justices, you're about to

1:17

realize just how much you get in the right way. All

1:21

In starts right now. Good

1:27

evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. If there was

1:30

ever any doubt the general election is here, it became

1:32

absolutely clear in just the first 30 seconds,

1:35

our President Joe Biden's State of the

1:37

Union address last night. Biden

1:39

came to the stage as the nominee

1:42

of his own party, facing his predecessor

1:44

running yet again. And from the very

1:46

first moments, Biden set the stakes of

1:49

an existential battle over the future of

1:51

American democracy. A battle

1:53

represented by the man holding the presidency

1:55

against the man who previously held it

1:58

and lost it And then fomented. The

2:00

violent coup to try to retain it. It

2:03

was an aggressive prosecution the case right out

2:05

of the gates. He was aided by the

2:07

facts, a republican parties and the right wing

2:09

media. Certainly and honestly, a lot of the

2:11

mainstream media. Has spent the

2:13

past few years, particularly the past few

2:15

months caricaturing Joe Biden as impossibly feeble

2:18

and daughter and. Will. He did

2:20

not look that way last month. Present

2:22

seems to relish the constant outburst,

2:24

interjections and hackles from Republicans in

2:26

the chamber. On. My absolute

2:28

favorite moments happen before the speech started

2:31

as Buttons made his way into the

2:33

chamber shaking hands. Before

2:35

he made this face smarting

2:38

first film and Marjorie Taylor

2:40

Greens Matter Get Up. It's.

2:43

Like the face of a grown up pretending

2:45

to be scared by a six year olds

2:47

Halloween costume. Oh it is. Scary

2:49

Ghost. But. Once you

2:51

got to the podium and this me started,

2:54

he used every opportunity to his disposal to

2:56

remind voters at home that on a range

2:58

of key issues from Ukraine to January Six

3:00

abortion rights to Obama Care. Democrats.

3:03

Found the right side of public opinion. Republicans.

3:06

On the wrong so. If

3:11

we stand with Ukraine. Provide.

3:18

The. Now. This

3:21

is. As you please been blocked. By.

3:23

Those who want to walk away from

3:25

our of world leadership. My first as.

3:29

A former republican president. So student

3:31

code? do whatever the hell you

3:33

want. My predecessor and some you

3:35

hear seek to bury the truth

3:38

about universes. I will not do

3:40

that. This is

3:42

a mobile to speak the truth in the

3:44

buried allies many of you and a saber.

3:47

And my predecessor a promising to pass

3:49

a national Bad Reproductive Freedom. My.

3:51

God what freedom else was? you take away.

3:56

Senate or Congress to force the right to

3:58

choose. I promise you. I'll restore.

4:00

Roe V Wade is a law

4:03

land again. My predecessors. Many

4:05

this chamber. Wanna. Take those

4:07

repr scripts and drug away by repealing.

4:10

Affordable. Care Act. I'm

4:14

not mad and happen. At

4:17

every turn, the message was clear:

4:19

Democrats oppose to his aggression. Republicans

4:21

apparently do not. Democrats support American

4:24

democracy. Republicans apparently do not. Democrats

4:26

support reproductive freedom. Republicans clearly do

4:28

not. All culminating

4:30

in a very telling exchange and perhaps

4:33

the number one political priorities for the

4:35

Republican party. Pass. Through

4:40

Ways to Go. Republicans concert

4:42

so screwed and get more tax breaks

4:44

to the Wilson. I will

4:46

watch the throne. You

4:50

guys know one another. Sincerely not I

4:52

say. I can

4:55

substantiate your plan once well

4:57

as soon as and accept

4:59

another two trillion dollars to

5:01

the Superbowl. That's good to

5:03

hear. They. Are gonna

5:05

try to cut another two trillion dollars for the

5:07

super wealthy? One, the Trump tax cuts expire, and

5:09

twenty twenty five. It's a huge part of the

5:11

agenda. Doesn't Buy was reminding

5:13

voters all thirty two million of them who

5:16

tuned in last night. Of

5:18

the most unpopular moment of dolphins

5:20

presidency other than the days after

5:22

January Six, when Trump and Republicans

5:24

in Congress for through that massive

5:26

tax cut for the wealthy and

5:28

corporations. With. The only actual

5:30

republican policy victory on domestic policy of

5:32

Trump's tenure novels the biggest piece of

5:35

legislation. Despite their local protestations last night,

5:37

he is exactly what they will do

5:39

again should they retake control of Congress

5:41

in the White House. They. Are

5:44

I will give this. Smart. Enough

5:46

not to openly campaign on

5:48

it because they know that

5:50

cutting taxes for the wealthy.

5:52

Further, cutting taxes for corporations

5:54

is an unbelievably unpopular political

5:56

position. The. Fact

5:59

that matters everyone to pay. The Texture American

6:01

Politics knows this election. This campaigns

6:03

can be hard fought. Can

6:05

be a very close general election. I

6:07

think barring some unforeseen changes circumstances, Joe

6:10

Biden, the Democrats say some truly serious

6:12

challenges ahead. No doubt you've read about

6:14

them. The. Last,

6:16

I wasn't. some ways a display of what

6:18

their greatest strengths are the advantages. And

6:21

it's this. They are on the

6:23

right side of the policy specific

6:25

something the actual tangible things of

6:27

governing. Of nearly every,

6:30

not every, put nearly every

6:32

salient issue before voters. Especially

6:35

through an abortion rights. And

6:37

as a result, there's this incredibly energized and

6:40

mobilize base of tens of millions of people

6:42

who been showing up for basically every special

6:44

election across America. Sea

6:47

Sauce in the majors. Twenty twenty two

6:49

and twenty twenty three to do whatever

6:51

they can to seen swine, reproductive freedoms

6:53

into law to beat back those. Who.

6:56

Supported of those restrictions.

7:00

And that by Mars the voters who

7:02

show up to vote in off your

7:04

special elections even a midterms, they're already

7:06

incredibly motivate big tend not to be

7:08

the ones of you'd be for persuaded

7:10

for the voters on the margins who

7:12

will decide the selection. And honestly,

7:14

the fate of the future trajectory of

7:16

what we call American democracy. A

7:19

lot of them just aren't paying attention to

7:21

politics. They. says of thing.

7:25

Today we saw a example was an anecdote

7:27

from Democratic pollster So in the Lakes about

7:29

a focus group she held with swing voters

7:32

weight as the voters about Trump's upcoming January

7:34

six court cases quote figure out what court

7:36

cases around January Six and Lake said well,

7:38

you know the insurrection that he was the

7:41

one that provoked at the go Oh yeah,

7:43

kind of forgot about that. Now.

7:46

I want to be clear here. Like. There's.

7:48

Lots of things I don't pay attention to. I've

7:51

got this job and a to ask me about those things.

7:53

I was on the exact same way. But.

7:57

There's. tons of examples of this stuff texas

8:00

article summarizing focus groups with independent voters last

8:02

spring. Quote, in Michigan, a woman was asked

8:04

how the two parties differ on abortion and

8:07

how she would describe each party's position. I'm

8:09

not sure the woman answered. I really haven't basically heard

8:11

anything about which party is leaning towards it and which

8:14

one isn't. If I had to guess, I

8:17

would say Democrat would probably be against

8:19

abortion and Republican probably before it. That

8:22

same article shares another anecdote from her voter

8:25

in North Carolina. Quote, a participant said she

8:27

wasn't sure where the party stand on abortion

8:29

and had been surprised Roe v. Wade was

8:31

overturned under a Democrat. Okay,

8:34

but did Joe Biden have a say in whether

8:36

or not was overturned? The focus group moderator asked.

8:39

No, but he helped get the Supreme Court

8:41

judges where they are, the one responded. The

8:44

moderator then informed the woman the most recent

8:46

judges came in under Donald Trump. I

8:49

mean, again, it might seem obvious to those

8:51

of us who are hyper engaged in politics,

8:54

but all this stuff is super opaque to

8:57

literally millions of millions of voters, many

9:00

of whom have just started paying attention to

9:02

the upcoming election, aren't really even going to

9:04

tune in fully for a while. So this

9:08

is crucial, right? This was what I really took

9:10

away from last night, the path that Biden this

9:12

campaign recognized as people started to

9:14

pay attention to this campaign to be proactive

9:16

about telling voters what

9:18

the two parties stand for, what

9:21

the Democratic Joe Biden Kamala Harris

9:23

agenda looks like, what the

9:25

Trump Republican Party agenda looks like.

9:28

And judging by last night, they're going to

9:30

do so confidently knowing they are on the

9:33

right side of a whole host of issues.

9:36

John Favreau was the mastermind behind several

9:38

State of the Union speeches while he

9:40

served as President Obama's chief speech writer.

9:42

He's now the co-host of POD Save

9:44

America and co-author of the upcoming buck,

9:46

Democracy or Else, How to Save America

9:49

in 10 Easy Steps. Tim Miller is

9:51

the former communications director for Jeb Bush's

9:53

campaign 2016. Now a writer at large

9:55

for the bulwark. He also hosts a

9:57

podcast there because who doesn't these days

9:59

and both. Join me now. John,

10:03

I keep thinking about the fact the first five

10:06

minutes of that speech. Here's how I think

10:08

about it. And as someone who actually did this, I want

10:10

to get your response. So what was striking to me is

10:13

you package together three things that you're

10:15

just on the right side of 60-40

10:18

splits, or 65-35. Putin's

10:21

aggression was jam-6

10:23

and political violence bad, was

10:26

overturning row bad. And there was no

10:28

real conceptual coherence to it, other

10:30

than out of the gate, I'm going to plant

10:32

a flag on these things that I know I've

10:35

got the wind at my back up. Yeah,

10:40

I mean, like you said, there are all the most

10:42

popular issues for Biden, or issues where he's got 60-65%

10:45

of the public on his side. But

10:48

also, the entire thesis

10:50

of his campaign and his presidency

10:52

has been defending democracy and defending

10:54

freedom. And I thought it

10:57

was interesting, right off the bat, he said

10:59

that he was there to wake up this

11:01

Congress and alert the American people that this

11:03

is no ordinary moment. And I think if

11:05

your message is that democracy hangs in the

11:07

balance at home and overseas,

11:10

you've got to act like it. And I

11:12

think why Joe Biden succeeded last night

11:14

is because he showed that urgency that

11:17

has to come along with believing that

11:19

saving democracy is the cause of your presidency,

11:21

the reason you're running for a second term,

11:23

and what the country needs right now. So

11:25

it was interesting that he started that. He

11:29

was gonna get a bunch of applause, at

11:31

least for a lot of the, from some

11:33

Republicans on Ukraine, certainly on some of the

11:35

January 6th stuff, or at least he was

11:37

going to make them feel deeply uncomfortable or

11:39

look embarrassed if

11:42

they didn't clap for some of that. I gotta

11:44

say, because I think I tend to

11:46

be sort of, I don't know,

11:48

I just, at a human level, I empathize

11:50

with people that I see up there, Tim,

11:52

I was thinking about, Mike Johnson just like,

11:54

you could just watch the internal

11:56

monologue of like, no, no.

11:59

We're not clapping. We're not. Are we? We're

12:02

clapping. We're clapping. Like he just, he did

12:04

not know. There was like a few moments

12:06

where it was like free the Israeli hostages.

12:08

It was like, Oh, we're doing it. Everything

12:10

else. He didn't seem, he seemed really unsure

12:12

of. And I think that the lack of

12:14

surety in some ways points to some of

12:17

the difficulties of his position

12:19

in the Republican party's position, which is

12:21

like it's Donald Trump's party.

12:23

You can't, you can't be deciding what to

12:25

clap for or not clap for. Yeah.

12:29

Well, I'm a masochist, so I did not feel

12:32

bad for him. I was really enjoying that section

12:34

and I rewound and just spent a little while

12:36

just watching my job that actually get

12:39

some pleasure on a Thursday night. Yeah,

12:41

look, I think it was tough, right? You could

12:43

tell the hit internal monologue on some of the

12:45

stuff, particularly on the Ukraine section, which comes right

12:47

up the top, which is

12:49

traditionally, he would have been somebody that

12:51

would have clapped for saying, Hey, we're going to give arms

12:53

to our allies. And he did. Yeah,

12:58

he did, but he kind of did. Right. It's this

13:00

half hearted clap. He's working around a little bit, you

13:02

know, Kamala, the vice president is standing

13:04

up. He doesn't stand up. He kind of, you can

13:07

tell he's trying to deciding to. So

13:09

I think that that tells you that, right. This

13:11

is a lot of the members of this party

13:13

are kind of lost. They're unsure on their footing,

13:15

right? Because we don't exactly know what I'm supposed

13:17

to do on the issue of Ukraine. That's why

13:19

it's a good issue for Biden, because he's dividing

13:21

the other side. And just strategically speaking, I have

13:24

to say, I felt very seen by the first

13:26

20 minutes of that speech last night. Generally

13:28

speaking, I guess John could correct me

13:31

on this. The presidents don't like micro

13:33

target state of the unions to minority

13:35

factions of the other party. But

13:38

that's what I didn't seem to do. The

13:41

first 20 minutes was Nikki Haley voters come

13:43

to me. I woke out of Putin. I'm

13:45

going to quote Reagan. January

13:47

6th was that. Yeah,

13:50

that's a great point. And that is another part

13:52

of sort of that you unifying that. I also

13:54

thought the you know, the sort

13:56

of bread and butter, you know, the bread

13:58

and butter economic policy. the Democratic Party,

14:01

John, which is again, that's, you know, that's

14:04

a standard part of being a Democratic president, giving this

14:06

speech. But it was particularly pointed

14:08

and particularly aggressive. And I thought particularly interesting

14:10

in terms of presidential

14:13

campaigns are so much about salience, right? Like which

14:15

issues are people ranking higher and lower? And one

14:17

of the levers you have as presidents is try

14:19

to raise the salience. And for

14:21

him to talk about like tax cuts

14:23

and Obamacare, that stuff has been lower

14:25

on the salience meter in

14:27

the media conversation, all these things, like it's very

14:30

intentional also to meet cues a little bit of

14:32

what this campaign is going to be about. It

14:37

has, but what's really high in

14:39

salience is people's concerns about the

14:42

lingering effects of inflation, right? So inflation has come down,

14:44

prices are high, costs are still feeling high to a

14:46

lot of people. And so in

14:49

his economic section, you know, what did he

14:51

propose? A billionaire's tax and

14:54

making sure that like big companies can pay a little

14:56

bit more. And in order

14:59

to make sure that

15:01

healthcare is cheaper, childcare is cheaper,

15:03

housing is cheaper. And

15:05

so to actually, he was really trying to

15:07

address the concerns, I think, of people who

15:09

are still worried about high prices. And

15:12

that's also going to be the best contrast with

15:14

Donald Trump and something that Donald Trump and the

15:16

Republicans don't want to talk about in the campaign

15:18

because Trump's proposed another huge tax cut for the

15:20

rich. And we haven't even talked

15:23

about this a lot, but Trump has proposed

15:25

across the board tariffs that are going to

15:27

slap a 10% tariff on just about anything

15:29

you buy that's made overseas. And that's going

15:31

to just make inflation skyrocket. I

15:34

want to ask you, Tim, about the members

15:36

of this House caucus. I mean, it's

15:39

clearly the case that there's not a lot

15:41

of control that leadership has. If

15:43

they did, if leadership had control, Mike

15:45

Johnson wouldn't be sitting there. It would have been

15:47

the guy they elected, Kevin McCarthy on the 12th

15:49

ballot. It's still very striking to me that they

15:52

can't overcome. There was

15:54

all this reporting that like they're going to tell him

15:56

not to heckle and clearly like they understand it doesn't

15:58

really look that good. Just the fact

16:00

that Kant says something sort of profound to me about

16:02

the state of the party. Yeah,

16:06

I mean, not only can they not control

16:08

them, even the members themselves are incentivized to

16:10

act work. I know,

16:12

Dr. Johnathan Martin at Politico would have pointed this out, like

16:14

Troy Nels in 2021, in

16:17

the first day of the union, is there

16:19

wearing a mask in a suit, asking Joe

16:21

Biden to work with him on criminal justice

16:23

reform. Yesterday, he's in like a Chippendale bow

16:26

tie and a never surrendered Donald Trump mugshot

16:28

shirt. Right. And so, you know,

16:30

this is for the members, their incentives are going

16:32

the way towards being crazy. And, you know, I

16:34

don't there's no leverage. What leverage does Mike

16:36

Johnson have over these people? All of their

16:38

incentives are to get fundraising, to get on

16:40

Fox, to get on Newsmax, to be popular

16:43

with the base voters, is

16:45

to do the crazy stuff, the

16:47

stuff that turns off swing voters.

16:49

This is like the fundamental bind

16:51

that Republicans have found themselves in

16:53

in swing states. And so, you know,

16:55

Mike Johnson is the weakest speaker

16:57

in history, certainly in modern

16:59

history. Right. Like he can't get literally

17:01

anything passed without Democrats. So there's not

17:03

a they could not come up with

17:06

a bill, I guess a bill, you know, naming

17:08

a post office after Donald Trump. He could probably

17:10

do. But besides that, you know, he doesn't he's

17:12

unable to pass anything within the conference. So he

17:14

has no power to control it. Yeah,

17:16

Troy Nels is great. I don't know if we I don't

17:18

think we have images of him. But someone

17:21

pointed out that when he was in a

17:23

mask in a suit talking to Joe Biden, he

17:25

was in a district that was a Trump

17:27

plus one district. He got redistricted in the

17:29

Texas gerrymander into a Trump plus 16 district. And

17:31

it's literally like a before and after you

17:33

would see like this is what this is

17:35

what it looks like when you're in a Trump

17:38

plus one district. And then like Chippendale's

17:40

bow tie, your words never surrender shirt.

17:42

That's the Trump 16 district. In some

17:44

ways, like that's the trajectory of

17:47

a lot of the Republican Party in a nutshell. John

17:49

Favreau, Tim Miller. Thank you very much. Coming

17:54

up, the bipartisan panning of the Republican

17:56

response to the State of the Union.

18:00

I want to make a direct appeal

18:03

to the parents out there and

18:05

in particular to my fellow

18:07

moms we see you, we

18:11

hear you, and

18:13

we stand with

18:15

you. That all went

18:17

wrong for Alabama's Katie Britt. That's next. The

18:23

International Rescue Committee is a critical

18:25

organization working in more than 50

18:27

countries responding to the world's worst

18:29

humanitarian crises. The IRC serves people

18:31

whose lives have been upended by war,

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conflict, and natural disasters. Responding within 72

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hours after an emergency strikes, they

18:39

stay as long as needed. Right

18:41

now in places like Afghanistan and

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Ukraine families are experiencing adverse winter

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weather like heavy rain, frigid temperatures,

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and snowfall on top of war,

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hunger, and displacement. Many makeshift camps

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are unable to withstand extreme weather

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conditions. Some people are living without

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reliable electricity while others can't afford

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to buy fuel for the heat

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source they do have. Donations help

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the IRC provide families with the

19:05

resources they need to recover and

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rebuild their lives including essential winter

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items like emergency food, shelter, fuel,

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medicine, blankets, winter gear, and cash

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assistance. For example, even just a

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$14 donation can provide a temporary

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shelter for a displaced family. Donate

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today by visiting rescue.org/rebuild. On

19:28

paper, Senator Katie Britt was an

19:30

excellent choice to deliver the response to the State

19:32

of the Union. At 42

19:34

years old, she's the youngest Republican

19:36

woman ever elected to the Senate,

19:38

the first woman senator from Alabama.

19:40

She's a mother of two, she's married to

19:43

a former NFL player, she's widely considered

19:45

to be a rising political star with

19:47

genuine political acumen. Senator Lindsey

19:49

Graham of South Carolina even suggested that quote,

19:51

she represents the future of the Republican Party.

19:54

The party clearly expect her to knock it out

19:56

of the park. New York Times

19:58

reports that a close ally of Senator Britt

20:01

sent talking points to conservative influencers ahead

20:03

of the speech, suggesting words

20:05

of praise, including, quote, she came off

20:07

like America's mom. She gets it. They

20:10

compared a response to Ronald Reagan's famous

20:12

Bertalan Wall speech and described as reminiscent

20:14

of his message of that shining city

20:16

on a hill. Before

20:18

she uttered a single word, the author of

20:20

these talking points declared that Britt's speech was

20:23

pitch perfect. For the first

20:25

60 seconds or so the speech had seemed fine.

20:28

She was smiling at her kitchen table talking

20:30

about the future of America, but

20:33

it quickly took a real turn. We

20:37

see you. We

20:40

hear you. And we

20:43

stand with you. Daily

20:46

Beast described the speech as, quote, bizarrely delivered

20:48

with an over the top dramatic cadence that

20:50

left political operatives and observers struggling to make

20:52

sense of it. The performance

20:54

was so bad that Republicans, some Republicans

20:57

watched the high profile speech with a

20:59

grimace. According to one strategist,

21:01

everyone's effing losing it. It's one of

21:03

our biggest disasters ever. Rolling

21:06

Stone was inundated with messages,

21:08

absolutely torturing Brits of surly

21:10

over dramatic rebuttal. A

21:12

Trump advisor wrote, quote, what the hell

21:15

am I watching right now? Republican pollster

21:17

called it creepy. And the senior house

21:19

congressional aide described as cringe inducing to

21:21

watch and likely destined to be turned

21:23

into a lame Saturday Night Live skit

21:25

this weekend. I think it's a fair prediction, though.

21:27

Might not be lame. The

21:29

conversation was similar in social media where

21:31

conservative activist Charlie Kirk received a lot

21:33

of replies to his post asking his

21:35

followers if they liked Britt's speech. Alan

21:37

Sanders compared it to a B grade

21:39

Hallmark movie moment with an unknown actress

21:41

playing the lead. Stacy in

21:44

the USA wrote very babysitter reading

21:46

a bedtime story like Zion 45

21:48

said, reminded me when a person

21:51

spoke on Sesame Street and

21:53

on Real America's Voice, the right wing hosts were

21:56

stunned into silence. God

22:00

bless you and may

22:02

God continue to bless

22:04

these United States of

22:07

America. I

22:22

don't, I'm

22:24

sure she's very, I'm sure she's very nice.

22:28

And I don't want to, I don't want to get like

22:30

over the top here, but that

22:33

is the, everything about

22:35

that on a night like tonight is wrong.

22:38

Reaction that may best represent the Republican

22:41

party came from the senior center from

22:43

Alabama, former football coach, Tommy Toverville. Well,

22:47

considering the circumstance, I think, I thought she did

22:49

very well. Uh, and you know, she's a

22:51

mom, uh, she's a housewife. She's

22:53

around people, uh, at a

22:55

young age. That

22:59

housewife is

23:01

his colleague, the first female

23:03

Senator from the state of Alabama. And

23:06

remember the clear intention of choosing Katie

23:08

Britch to deliver the response was to

23:10

counter the deficit Republicans are facing among

23:12

women voters and anger about their abortion

23:14

policy. I don't

23:17

think they quite accomplished that last night. It's

23:22

a decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, the Supreme

23:24

court majority wrote the following and

23:26

with all due respect justices, women

23:29

are not without electoral electoral power,

23:32

excuse me, electoral or political power.

23:35

You're about to realize just how much you get. Those

23:39

bragging about overturning Roe v. Wade have

23:41

no clue about the power of women,

23:44

but they found out when

23:46

reproductive freedom was on the ballot, we won in

23:48

2022 and 2020 and we'll win

23:50

again in 2024. Last

23:54

night, president Biden made it clear that he's

23:56

running on restoring reproductive rights in America, protecting

23:58

IVF across the country. fighting

24:00

the Republican agenda to implement a

24:02

national abortion ban and to sign

24:04

legislation that would enshrine and protect

24:06

abortion rights nationally. Because

24:09

Joe Biden and the Democratic Party are both committed

24:11

to this on principle. It's a bedrock part of

24:13

the party's DNA at this point. Their voters demanded.

24:16

They also understand these issues are central

24:18

to voters and that their position on

24:20

it is overwhelmingly popular. Alexis

24:23

McGill-Johnson is the CEO and president

24:25

of Planned Parenthood and she

24:27

joins me now. It's good to have you here. In

24:31

your position as CEO of Planned Parenthood, your

24:33

reaction just to the speech last night to

24:35

the emphasis on abortion rights? Well,

24:37

in my position and in the room where

24:39

it was incredibly electric. I happen to be

24:41

a guest of Senator Schumer, but one in

24:43

10 of the House

24:45

Democrats' guests were leaders of reproductive

24:48

rights. They were providers. They were

24:50

CEOs of Planned

24:53

Parenthood. They were patients. They

24:55

were in there talking, engaged

24:57

in a conversation, watching the president

24:59

say, I want to

25:01

restore Roe to the law and land and I

25:03

would challenge him, not just restore Roe. I think

25:06

we want to actually build Roe back better and

25:08

make sure that we make it more expansive, inclusive

25:10

and national right. It

25:13

was an incredible moment and opportunity

25:15

because he connected reproductive rights and

25:17

freedom to the fight for

25:19

democracy, which ultimately was his big

25:21

message last night. One thing that's

25:24

become clear, I think, is

25:26

there is an interesting tension in the Republican

25:28

Party on this. They haven't figured out how to talk

25:30

about it. I think the political

25:33

professionals and the savviest understand that they're

25:35

just totally underwater on this issue and

25:37

the less said about it, the better.

25:40

But it's also something that genuinely does animate the grassroots.

25:42

I mean, it's not they're not making it up. It's

25:45

not like some like congee. You know what I mean?

25:47

It's not like there's someone's paying them to care about

25:49

this. They care about it. This

25:51

is just on Thursday. Iowa Republicans passing

25:53

a personhood bill that critics there say

25:56

could threaten IVF care in the same way that finding

25:58

the Alabama Supreme Court did. They passed a A person

26:00

would build a state house on Thursday night, would

26:02

make it a felony to cause the death of

26:04

an unborn person that has all sorts of implications.

26:09

What do you think about the

26:11

fact that they still have their foot on the gas? I

26:14

mean, it's very perplexing, right? I mean, we've seen 35 personhood

26:16

bills in 16 states. And

26:20

whether or not this is actually their

26:22

grassroots is what I would question. Because

26:24

we have the majority of Americans supporting

26:26

reproductive freedom in every state. I think

26:29

it's... Well, you can do it with a

26:31

minority though. I mean, a vanguard is a powerful

26:33

thing. No, but that's the thing. But I think

26:35

when you were talking about their grassroots, we're really

26:37

talking about a tyranny of the minority of folks

26:40

who are continuing to elect people and hold them,

26:42

but only because they are safe in these gerrymandered

26:44

districts. It's not the majority of who their base

26:46

is, right? Because we wouldn't have a Kentucky, you

26:49

wouldn't have a Montana, you wouldn't have a Michigan

26:52

even, in fact, or Kansas if

26:54

we weren't seeing a cross party

26:57

bipartisan desire to see

26:59

that. So I don't understand why they're

27:01

doubling down. It honestly makes no sense

27:03

because these bans have proven that they

27:05

are criminalizing miscarriage, they're making pregnancy unsafe,

27:08

these stories are coming out. And of

27:10

course, they're running for them because real

27:12

people are talking about the real implications

27:14

of them and they don't have a

27:16

real legislative solution around it. One

27:19

of the things I thought of last night is one

27:21

way out that the president was very clear like send

27:23

me a bill. If you send me a Congress that

27:25

will protect abortion rights, I will sign that bill into

27:27

law. On the other

27:29

side, there's talk about Donald Trump's musing about

27:32

what the national ban is going to be and how many weeks,

27:34

whether it's an odd or even number, seems like an important thing

27:36

for him. One of the things that's

27:39

striking about that is just so many of the horror stories

27:41

we've heard are from women who

27:43

had to have abortions for medical reasons

27:45

past whatever the proposal

27:47

for a national ban would be. I

27:50

think that's a function of people not really understanding how

27:52

pregnancy works. Right. And building a lot

27:54

of that. It seems like a lot of that. Right. And

27:58

it's quite odd. But I

28:00

think what the president did last night was

28:02

really demonstrate the threat. The Republicans

28:05

have been running on a national abortion ban,

28:07

because that is, to your point, what they

28:09

believe their grassroots are saying. And so

28:11

they are running to the right on reproductive

28:13

freedom. That is not where the majority of

28:16

Americans are. And I think what

28:18

the president presented last night was a

28:20

clear contrast, that he

28:23

linked abortion rights to IVF as

28:26

part of a full spectrum of reproductive health

28:29

care and understanding that that is what people

28:31

need. It's whether and when we get

28:33

to decide whether or not we want to be parents, and

28:35

also now how. So one thing

28:37

I think the savvier members of

28:39

politicians will do in this

28:41

election is try to just avoid the issue. Or

28:44

they will say, no, I don't support a national ban, or

28:46

try to sort of skate away from it. I wonder how

28:48

important you think it is to affirmatively stick

28:50

to it. I mean, one of the things the

28:52

president was doing was pinning it to them. And

28:54

I think this is, just to be clear for

28:56

anyone watching this, if you

28:58

are opposed to abortion rights, the

29:01

Republican Party has a lot to offer you. And

29:03

if you support the Democratic Party, this is one

29:05

of those places where it's not like there are

29:07

some issues where, oh, are the parties that far apart?

29:09

This is probably one of the most black and white, right? I think

29:11

it's clear. And I don't see the bobbing and

29:14

weaving happening among the Democrats. Actually, I see

29:16

more Democrats being more vocal about the Democratic Party. I

29:18

don't think they're bobbing and weaving at all. No, I think they are 100%. I

29:21

think what's happening on the Republican side is

29:23

they are realizing that what they have on

29:25

record, they can't scrub. They're trying to scrub

29:28

their websites. They're trying to, as the kids

29:30

say, get rid of the receipts. But we

29:32

have them, right? Because we have the Wayback

29:34

Machine. We understand really what they have stood

29:36

for and why. And they're trying

29:39

to run away from that because they don't

29:41

know how to talk about it. I want to

29:43

offer you a thesis that I would like to hear

29:45

your response to. There

29:48

are some people who say, some pollsters

29:50

who say, that the salience, how important,

29:52

how front of mind abortion is to

29:54

voters writ large, has declined to post-dobs.

29:57

That it's incredibly important right after dobs. It's

29:59

clearly very important in 22 and it's declined. Do

30:01

you agree with that? Do you contest that? No,

30:04

you... I actually find

30:06

it insulting, right? I find the idea that people are

30:08

polling on the idea that we have

30:11

somehow forgotten that this freedom has been taken away

30:13

from us and that we can't hold

30:15

multiple ideas together is actually kind of insulting. That we

30:17

can't care about the economy, that we can't care about

30:19

climate, that we can't care about what's happening in the

30:21

Middle East and all of a sudden like, be like,

30:23

oh, abortion rights is now

30:26

down here. Right. Right? Let me understand

30:28

that the choice around our freedom that

30:30

affects our daily lives, right? Whether... Everything.

30:34

whether or not I'm gonna send my child to school there,

30:36

whether or not... Whether you're gonna travel to Texas

30:39

when you're 21 weeks pregnant to give a lecture.

30:41

Like, I mean, like you're not even moved there.

30:43

No. Just make

30:45

everyday decisions to get on a plane and decide

30:47

how you are gonna be and how you're gonna

30:49

show up. When you watch a state like Texas

30:51

and Idaho say, we want the right to sue

30:53

to let you die because we don't wanna give

30:55

you abortion care. Like, that's the kind of thing

30:58

that I think is, you

31:00

know, is so critically crazy. And then you

31:02

see Alabama show up with IVF on the

31:04

other side and you say, okay, yes, all

31:06

of these things are connected with respect to

31:08

reproductive freedom. And it is

31:10

top of mind for so many people who are just

31:12

like, I can't believe we are back

31:14

here. So no, I disagree with the thesis. I think

31:16

that we have kept this top of mind. You can

31:18

see that in the rage and you can see that

31:20

every time reproductive freedom is on the ballot, we continue

31:23

to fight. Final question for you is about

31:25

the national implications. The other thing I

31:27

think is it would be very clear that in states where

31:30

it's, you know, your

31:32

vote in this state will protect it or not,

31:34

right? Like that's the clearest possible. You

31:37

think quickly that that's gonna translate to national

31:39

politics as well. I think we saw that in Virginia,

31:41

right? Yes, we could say that in Ohio. You could say

31:43

that in Michigan and other places. We saw it in Virginia

31:45

and that worked. Alexis McEel Johnson, thank

31:47

you so much. Thank you. Still to come

31:50

why President Biden started his state the

31:52

union address on foreign policy, the significance of

31:54

that choice, Ben Rhodes, is here to

31:56

explain, head. We

31:59

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33:04

than 32 million people watched Joe Biden's

33:06

State of the Union address last night according

33:08

to Nielsen ratings. That is almost 5 million

33:10

more than the number who watched Biden last

33:12

year. 32 million in this day

33:14

and age is an enormous number. But

33:17

here's an interesting catch. Only

33:19

5% of those viewers were under 35. In

33:22

part because this year the speech was taking place

33:24

in possibly the most fractured

33:26

media landscape in history. We've

33:29

seen layoffs and shutdowns, absolutely

33:31

decimating newsrooms. More and more

33:33

people are getting their

33:35

news from an increasingly unreliable internet

33:37

of social media apps. A

33:40

plurality of young voters are being

33:42

informed and frequently misinformed by TikTok

33:44

and Instagram. And there's, I gotta

33:47

say, a ton of great stuff on TikTok and Instagram. I

33:49

use them both and enjoy them. In fact, on both

33:51

of them you can follow me at Chris L. Hayes

33:53

if you just can't get enough of me talking. There's

33:57

also a ton of junk. And as

33:59

it gets harder to say... informed democracy becomes

34:01

a potential casualty. Few

34:04

people know this as well as journalist

34:06

Ben Smith, the former BuzzFeed news editor

34:08

in chief who now runs the Jiddle

34:10

News Platform Semaphore. The newest

34:12

episode of my podcast, Wise is Happening,

34:15

he sat down with me to talk about

34:17

our fractured media landscape and how difficult it

34:19

is now to find out just

34:22

what people are learning from where, going

34:24

into this pivotal election cycle. Media

34:27

is such a hard business. Journalism is such

34:29

a hard business, such a hard way

34:32

to make money. My son

34:34

had the internship at one point in a

34:36

company that operates car washes, and

34:38

he would come back and just be like,

34:40

do you know what a good business car

34:42

washes are? Like, oh, in the media, all

34:44

you guys talk of is breaking even, like,

34:46

these guys are all wildly profitable. Readers, viewers

34:48

really feel this sense that they're not getting

34:50

the thing they want. They're getting right now

34:53

flung all sorts of fragmentary, kind of polarizing

34:55

information at them. And so

34:57

there's a real advantage to starting from

34:59

scratch and just saying, like, what

35:01

would you as a consumer want? I

35:03

feel perhaps irrationally optimistic about this stuff.

35:06

But I think there's a lot of, I mean, although it

35:09

is, there's something scary and new about

35:11

being unable to see what everybody else is talking about

35:13

and thinking about. There's also something

35:15

nice about it, and sometimes you poke into those spaces

35:17

and you're pleasantly surprised by how thoughtful

35:19

people have been. Sometimes, sometimes

35:22

you feel opposite. It was just a

35:24

fascinating conversation. And you can listen to

35:26

that full episode right now

35:29

by scanning that QR code on your screen

35:31

with your phone, or you

35:33

can search for why is this happening

35:35

wherever you get your podcasts. One

35:41

of the many striking things about President Biden's

35:43

State of the Union address last night was

35:45

the unorthodox choice to lead right off the

35:47

bat with foreign policy, hammering Republicans

35:50

on their failure to send additional aid

35:52

to Ukraine in the fight against Russia.

35:56

If anybody in this room thinks Putin will stop

35:58

at Ukraine, I assure you. you he

36:00

will not. If

36:20

we stand with Ukraine and

36:23

provide the weapons of music

36:25

for the former fall. That

36:28

is how he started the night. Later

36:30

on President Biden returned to foreign policy

36:32

to address Israel's war in Gaza. I

36:36

know the last five months have been gut wrenching

36:38

for so many people, for the

36:40

Israeli people, for the Palestinian people, and

36:43

so many here in America. Israel has

36:45

the right to go after Hamas. Israel

36:47

also has a fundamental responsibility though, to

36:50

protect innocent civilians in Gaza. As

36:59

you can hear in that carefully crafted

37:01

phrasing, Israel's response, the October 7th terror

37:03

attacks, and the ongoing humanitarian devastation in

37:05

Gaza as a result of Israel's retaliation

37:08

there, is arguably the most complicated foreign

37:10

policy issue for President Biden to address

37:12

right now. Because there are

37:14

so many different audiences for it, both

37:17

domestically and internationally. Joining

37:19

me now, someone who understands that complexity firsthand,

37:21

Ben Rhodes served as Deputy National Security Advisor

37:23

to President Obama, where he helped write all

37:25

seven of Obama's State of the Union addresses,

37:27

plus his first speech to a joint session

37:29

of Congress. He's now co-host of Pod Save

37:31

the World. Ben, I want to

37:33

start and get your reaction to the choice to

37:35

begin on Ukraine aid and Putin right off the

37:37

bat, which, you know, a lot of folks say,

37:40

look, you always begin on the economy, you always

37:42

begin on domestic issues. What do you think of

37:44

that choice? Were you surprised? Yeah,

37:47

it's very unusual, Chris. I mean, usually the

37:49

best real estate is at the front of the

37:51

speech and you use that for what Americans

37:53

care about. The economy, the domestic policies that

37:55

impact their lives. I think

37:57

what that choice said is number one. They

38:00

know that this is a winning issue for

38:02

them, that Americans are disgusted, frankly, by the

38:04

way that Donald Trump is sided with Putin

38:07

and undermined our allies. But also

38:09

Ukraine in some ways is a domestic issue

38:11

because it's tied to the danger that Donald Trump

38:14

poses. Leading with it

38:16

was really as much about the danger

38:18

and radicalism of Donald Trump as it

38:20

was about a foreign policy issue. He

38:23

was using it and you saw Mike Johnson kind of disappearing

38:25

into his seat there. He's using

38:27

it to kind of highlight the Republican

38:29

Party is not your father's Republican Party,

38:31

but your Republican Party has become something

38:34

different and dangerous and distinct even from

38:36

Ronald Reagan. And so in

38:38

a weird way, it was a foreign policy

38:40

issue, but it was also making a point

38:42

about democracy and the radicalization of the Republicans.

38:45

I don't think there's any question

38:47

that the most difficult political issue

38:50

for him among the Democratic Party

38:52

coalition by far is Israel and

38:54

Gaza. I knew there would be

38:56

a section on the speech. I can imagine if

38:58

you were putting yourself in the shoes of writing that, how

39:00

difficult that would be, because there really are different

39:03

constituencies within the party, within the

39:05

nation that just don't agree

39:08

on this fundamentally. What

39:10

did you think about that section? Well,

39:13

first of all, it's notable that he put Ukraine at the

39:15

front and he kind of stuck this at the back. That

39:17

tells me that they know that this has not been

39:20

a good issue for them politically or policy wise in

39:22

this country or around the world. But

39:24

then it was kind of carefully constructed. You're right. He

39:27

was trying to speak to these different audiences. He's

39:29

trying to reassure those who want

39:31

to hear his pro-Israel bona fides and the way

39:33

that he kind of led into it. But then

39:35

he kind of wanted to hit these marks about

39:37

concern for the Palestinian people. However,

39:39

on that score, I was frankly

39:41

pretty disappointed, Chris, because nobody believes

39:43

that the Israeli government under Bibi Netanyahu is

39:46

listening to him. So when he

39:48

says Israel has a responsibility to protect

39:50

Palestinian civilians, Israel has a responsibility to

39:53

let assistance in. Well, he's been saying that

39:55

for months. And frankly, the Israeli government's been

39:57

ignoring him and doing the opposite. announcement

40:00

that he made building this kind of pier

40:03

off the coast of Gaza to provide humanitarian

40:05

assistance, that it'll take a couple of months

40:07

just to set up while people are already

40:09

suffering famine-like conditions in Gaza. It just shows

40:12

you how much they're not changing the paradigm

40:14

and trying to exert leverage on Israel to

40:16

get assistance in. It'd be a lot faster

40:18

to drive a bunch of trucks into Rafa

40:20

than to build a floating pier, but

40:23

you're not going to get the Israeli government to do

40:25

that unless you're willing to apply pressure. It's

40:27

just a change of tone or policy in

40:30

the speech. There's a waiting for

40:33

Godot aspect to this. I feel

40:35

like having covered this since October 7th, both

40:37

the initial attack

40:40

on Israel itself, the horrifying

40:42

aftermath, the trauma, the continued

40:44

trauma of the Israeli

40:46

society awaiting the hostages whose whereabouts are

40:48

unknown and fate is unknown, along

40:51

with the just sustained brutality

40:53

of the reality on the

40:55

ground in Gaza. We

40:57

basically have been covering the same thing over and over, right?

41:00

That the US is four square

41:02

behind Israel at the state to state

41:05

level. It's shipping

41:07

arms to Israel. It is supporting them

41:09

in whatever way it can. Then

41:12

lots of words

41:14

coming from the White House about we're concerned

41:16

about humanitarian casualties. That

41:19

just basically has been going.

41:22

Why is that the equilibrium? I guess someone who

41:25

had this job of trying

41:27

to negotiate communicating on this, what is your

41:30

understanding? Because it also seems to me to

41:32

be pleasing no one just for a political

41:34

standpoint. Why is that

41:36

the equilibrium here? Yeah,

41:39

I have to tell a lot about this too, Chris. I

41:41

think the reality is, look, their theory from

41:43

the beginning was, and they said this, you

41:46

hog Bibi and he literally flew to Israel

41:48

and hugged Bibi, and you counsel him in

41:50

private to try to get him to

41:52

do things that he might not otherwise want to do. I

41:55

think what's been very obvious to people is that Bibi doesn't

41:57

want to do what Joe Biden is counseling to do.

42:00

that he's looking to the far right of his

42:02

coalition to stay in power, that frankly, he

42:04

doesn't care if he undermines Joe Biden, doesn't

42:06

seem to particularly care about the humanitarian circumstance

42:08

in Gaza. And so to really

42:10

change, to really shift to

42:12

a posture of not giving full square

42:15

support to Israel, not expediting military assistance,

42:17

considering things like conditioning military aid, considering

42:19

things like voting for a ceasefire at

42:21

the UN, you'd have to be acknowledging

42:24

that the approach that you were doing

42:26

isn't working. And that's hard

42:28

for any White House to do. It's a big

42:30

shift because they've been trying to have this be

42:32

an evolution. We're leaning on BB to change. We're

42:35

trying to get this into a ceasefire and negotiation.

42:37

And the reality is that BB

42:39

can't achieve his objectives either with this military

42:41

operation. They're not rescuing the hostages through the

42:43

use of military force. They may

42:45

be putting the hostages in danger. They're not

42:47

going to defeat Hamas, as he says,

42:50

because in fact, what they're doing is they're

42:53

essentially turning the Palestinian

42:55

population deeper and deeper against them, and

42:58

never mind the rest of the world. And

43:00

so I think that the where the administration

43:02

finds itself is they'd have to kind of

43:04

admit that what they're doing hasn't been working.

43:06

I think the reason that they need to

43:08

do that is substantively and morally because of

43:10

the dire circumstances, but also politically. Chris,

43:13

I mean, if you look at those numbers in Michigan, that

43:15

were kind of dismissed, well, that could swing the

43:17

election. And what an irony, what a terrible tragic

43:19

irony it'd be if the Democratic

43:21

president's support for BB Netanyahu ends up

43:24

being a decisive factor in the swing

43:26

states. Yeah, we should also

43:28

just say that like, it's not just

43:30

Michigan, there's also Minnesota or 20 percent,

43:32

but also remind people all the time,

43:34

there's there's different sides of this issue.

43:36

And right now, he's sort of not

43:38

winning either over like he's very underwater

43:40

on the issue in total, like, like,

43:42

the longer it goes, the more he

43:44

is just underwater on this issue, just

43:46

purely political, practical terms.

43:49

Ben Rhodes, thank you very

43:51

much. Appreciate it.

43:54

That does it for all in you can catch us

43:56

every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to

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