0:00

Welcome to episode 100

0:03

of our Kill a No Phillip

0:05

podcast.

0:20

Why

0:23

are you laughing? I don't know. With

0:25

me, Rachel Fairbairn and Kiri Pritchard-McLean. Just before

0:27

we start, we'll do our usual disclaimer. This isn't hero

0:29

worship. We do this podcast because we

0:31

have mutual interest in serial killers. As

0:34

long as we are doing this podcast, it stops us from

0:36

writing to them in prison. Episode 100,

0:38

did you ever think we'd get here?

0:41

I thought we were getting quicker than we are, to be quite honest. Yeah,

0:43

but it's only because we keep doing things that are like multiple

0:45

parts. That is very true. That is very

0:48

true.

0:48

Yeah, I mean, 100, gosh. Nice. Yeah. It's

0:51

a nice figure. It is. 1-0-0. Yeah.

0:55

Part one. Great time to leave it. Yeah.

0:58

Part one. Part one. We think

1:00

it's going to be a multiple parter. What is it going to be? Because

1:03

it's 100, we thought we'd do something a bit different,

1:05

and we're not going to do a serial killer. No.

1:08

But we are going to do a big

1:10

true crime figure that we actually have done at a live show. Big old nonce.

1:13

Big old nonce. Biggest nonce. The

1:15

nonce

1:16

king. Imagine

1:19

if we said someone completely different name there.

1:21

He's like, "[Bleeped out word for nonce king].

1:24

For the record, he's not

1:26

a nonce. Though we know of. He's

1:29

not a nonce. I'm not even getting into this. Well,

1:32

no, it's obviously going to get beeped out. Anyway, I'm

1:34

going to quote you what I've

1:37

heard him, because I was like, listen to podcasts, watching

1:39

documentaries, reading stuff, and this

1:41

guy, he's very sweet, this American

1:44

guy started listening to podcasts. I thought you were talking about

1:46

the subject of what we're talking about. No, no, no, sorry. I'm

1:48

like, hang on a minute. This is taking, he's going in a direction. Adorable.

1:51

This is, there's some boring, I'm not

1:53

being very direct to this. Basically, I started listening to this

1:55

podcast thing, I wonder if there's anything I don't know of

1:57

on here.

1:59

And this guy was like, this

2:03

guy is my obsession. He's my white whale

2:05

is what he refers to as a man. And

2:08

he was like, I'm obsessed with, there's nothing I don't

2:10

know about him. Nine years

2:12

I've been researching this episode. And

2:14

he was like, there's nothing, I don't know about

2:17

Sir Jimmy Seville OBE. And

2:20

I was like, we don't know. I'd pronounce his second fucking

2:22

name. And also it was full like

2:24

OBE-ing him. I imagine that's gone back. I think

2:26

Guy's American. This guy's American so there you go. So

2:29

I'm going to stress, if you are going to take on a

2:31

prolific, multiple-ific

2:32

nonce and have

2:35

the decency to get his name right, okay?

2:38

Have the decency because

2:40

he's our nonce, all

2:43

right? For the people's nonce. He

2:45

is the people's nonce. He's awful. Now,

2:48

obviously like

2:49

most people will be book smart. Most people

2:51

in the UK will know about this case and

2:54

what it entails. International people

2:56

might not be as familiar, I think now he's

2:58

been on Netflix, Exposé,

3:02

people will be familiar with him. But he

3:04

is, I mean, we're being a bit flippant,

3:06

but he is horrible. And

3:08

we were just talking about this beforehand that like every

3:10

time you find out about a new crime or new thing,

3:13

you're like,

3:14

it sounds made up. Yes. But

3:16

he is that awful. We were just saying,

3:19

if this was fiction,

3:22

you would be saying, this

3:24

is too far. This couldn't

3:27

happen. This is too far fetched. You'd be

3:29

saying, well, my partner says, we're watching something and

3:31

then he'll go on his phone. I'm like, are you all right? And

3:33

he's like, I'm just trying to find out if this was written during the writers'

3:35

strike. Because

3:37

he is sure that he can tell when things

3:39

are written when the

3:41

proper people were on strike. This

3:43

is, I mean, the entire thing

3:46

is insane. I did

3:48

some gigs a while ago. In fact, it was, I

3:50

think it might have been about seven

3:52

years ago, some five, seven years ago. I

3:54

did some gigs in Norway.

3:56

And I went for dinner with the people

3:58

that ran the gigs. something you have to do

4:01

and they

4:04

asked about Jimmy Savile

4:06

and I was like why have I got to take this and

4:09

basically they

4:11

were like this Jimmy Savile guy and I'm trying to, I'm

4:13

like yeah I know they're like how didn't

4:15

you all know and I'm like

4:17

but I think people did know and for example

4:20

I mean if you, we should describe what it looks like first.

4:23

Oh yeah this is fun yeah. Now

4:25

I've got a bit of a problem here because

4:28

there is some good clobber that this man

4:30

wears. There is some good looks. I don't

4:32

wanna, there's a lot of crossover with how

4:34

you dress day to day. No offence. So

4:37

date,

4:37

listen this has happened to me since

4:40

I've been researching these episodes I've

4:42

been starting to wear things and I've gone fuck

4:45

this is subconsciously

4:48

I think I've looked at some stuff and seen

4:50

something. Track suits, I love track suit, gold

4:54

jewellery, love me gold jewellery. Yeah,

4:56

love a marathon these days. Love a marathon

4:59

these days. He was a flamboyant

5:02

figure, this is what we'll say, he had bright

5:05

yellow hair that was very dry.

5:07

It was. He

5:09

wore track suits quite often. He

5:11

used to wear a lot of gold jewellery, he

5:14

smoked cigars constantly.

5:18

This, Tom Lawrence and

5:20

the comedian who's an excellent comedian.

5:22

Yes, he's great on TikTok hasn't he? Did

5:25

a sketch, is that the right word sketch?

5:27

A video where it was like TV producers in

5:30

the 70s and it was basically about

5:32

Jimmy Savile and if you can track this video

5:35

down because it's really fun because he's basically saying

5:37

I've got a perfect person for this kid's show and they're

5:40

like oh yeah tell me more and they're like he's

5:42

an old man, he's got bad teeth,

5:45

he stinks, he's got yellow

5:47

hair, he smokes and

5:49

they're like oh brilliant he sounds

5:52

perfect right. The

5:55

way this man looks visually

5:57

is

5:58

not only off-putting, putting and

6:01

sinister. It's not,

6:04

I don't know, for someone who was so in

6:06

sort of youth culture, because he was, you know,

6:08

he was in sort of, he was on the radio as well

6:10

and he was working in dance halls, he presented top

6:12

of the pops and he was a lot older

6:14

than the

6:15

people at the studio. He,

6:20

everything about him is wrong. But

6:23

I think, weirdly, it allowed him to get

6:25

away with it for longer because

6:28

people just billed him as an eccentric

6:31

and actually his, his sort

6:33

of, when he's hiding in plain sight,

6:35

which is the name of the book about him, right?

6:38

And he's making jokes about,

6:41

you know, diddling kids or

6:43

kissing little girls or whatever. People are like,

6:45

that's just Jimmy being Jimmy. And

6:48

weirdly, I think the, you know, poker visors

6:50

and the, you know, mad tracksuits

6:53

play into it.

6:55

I will just tell you now, the book in

6:57

plain sight, The Life and Lies of Jimmy Savile

6:59

by Dan Davies, which is an excellent

7:01

book, which I'm rereading

7:04

at the moment. I think I've read it a couple of

7:06

times, but every time I read it, I find something. It's

7:08

a bit like Happy Light Murderers by

7:10

Gordon Byrne in the sense of every time you read it, you find

7:13

something that you've forgotten or you've just missed or

7:15

glossed over. It's a great book, but

7:17

I got it, when it first came out, I got it

7:19

for Christmas off

7:22

my boyfriend at the time. It

7:24

was, you know, it first came out in hardback.

7:27

It was massive, right? But he, when he said,

7:30

oh, when I went to find it in Waterstones,

7:32

he said, I had real trouble finding it. I was in

7:34

a true crime section. I couldn't find it there. He said, you

7:37

know, it was like, he said the new releases,

7:39

because it was a new book, it's a new release, it wasn't on there.

7:41

And he said, so he had to go up and ask, you

7:43

know where it was? It was in the entertainment

7:46

section.

7:48

Fucking hell. This

7:50

shouldn't be in there. Definitely not. I

7:53

remember this being,

7:55

we'll talk about later in a later episode,

7:57

how the timeline breaks, but I thought

8:00

we could start off by talking about when you

8:02

first heard about it and what you remember

8:04

of it because it was everywhere

8:06

because also the BBC being this sort of like partially

8:09

public funded institution

8:11

and is meant to be like home of transparency

8:13

and balance and we can get into that conversation

8:15

another day but I think the BBC

8:18

really self-flagellate there was that role

8:20

in coverage of it I remember I was on holiday me and

8:22

my mates me and my girls like mother and we'd

8:25

gone to

8:26

this awful resort in Cyprus

8:29

called pathos and

8:32

which is too sad we'd accidentally

8:34

stayed in a place that was for old people so you've got like

8:37

a cheaper rate if you stay for months and

8:39

I remember more just sat around the pool watching

8:41

this role in coverage of Jimmy Savile and

8:44

it being like it was just it was absolutely

8:47

everywhere well the thing is so Jimmy Savile

8:49

if we are going to describe him he is

8:51

was sorry a DJ TV

8:54

personality charity fundraiser and predatory

8:56

sex offender probably the

8:58

worst one in Britain that we've

8:59

ever known DJ yeah so

9:02

it's weird the Jimmy Savile thing

9:07

because I as

9:11

a child was never allowed to watch him on

9:14

television so there's a few things

9:16

I was allowed to watch on TV Jimmy Savile being one of them

9:18

because my family

9:20

said it's weird with my

9:22

mum said is a creep really

9:25

we never watched him we also I also

9:27

wasn't allowed to watch Paul Daniels the magician after I

9:30

might mention this before because

9:33

I was watching him with my granddad one

9:35

day and he got a volunteer

9:37

from the audience who was an Indian bloke and

9:39

he started talking to the bloke

9:42

doing it in an Indian accent my

9:44

granddad was like we're not watching

9:46

this we're not watching him in this house anymore

9:48

because my grandparents were like huge

9:51

advocates of anti-racism Wow

9:54

very forward-thinking for the time it my

9:56

granddad was like we don't watch him in this house anymore anytime

9:59

Paul Daniels on TV

9:59

switched him off. Funnily enough I saw him live once

10:02

and he made an Israel Palestine joke. Oh really?

10:05

Yeah. So sorry

10:07

to speak killer the dead but yeah. It's a cat in

10:09

here isn't it? Wasn't allowed to watch Paul Daniels. Wasn't

10:12

allowed to watch Jimmy Savile.

10:13

But also I, of

10:15

course Jimmy Savile's on TV a lot but in

10:18

my opinion he was never someone that we all

10:20

thought was great. Like

10:22

growing up we weren't like oh

10:24

Jimmy Savile oh there's Jimmy Savile isn't he brilliant?

10:26

Like no one, I don't,

10:28

I do think he's a massive cultural thing. To

10:31

me he's a bit like and I'm not saying this person is a pedophile

10:33

I want to make that clear but you know like how Christopher

10:35

Biggins is like an institute and

10:37

a big part of like kind of naff

10:40

British culture that we love to Pollard

10:43

and I mean like I mean like this in a very loving way

10:45

to all these people. I think he's part

10:47

of that like panto-ish oddball

10:50

eccentric well-loved

10:52

kind of. See it's weird because

10:54

I'm coming from a different angle because

10:56

I suppose like from being a kid I was told

10:58

that he's weird so I never,

11:01

I

11:02

was never surprised when it came out that he was

11:04

a f******. No it didn't surprise me and

11:07

you know you'd hear little rumours through

11:10

you know from people and you know

11:12

things that people say about him and stuff

11:14

like that and my one of my ex-boyfriends

11:18

who was Australian

11:19

this was before Jimmy Savile was ever even

11:22

outed as well when he was still alive. Someone

11:25

bizarrely bought me a soap on a rope thing

11:27

that was a Jim Will Fix it thing and I was like

11:31

why have you summed up with this and he's like oh

11:33

what's that? I'm trying to explain

11:35

it to him he's like oh that

11:37

guy he's like

11:39

he's weird that that guy's on the TV and

11:41

I'm like yeah it is a bit weird he's like that

11:43

guy's up to something. Really? Yeah

11:45

I mean he's an outsider looking at it and

11:48

he's going like why is this old man?

11:50

Yeah. He always looked like an

11:52

old man so popular. Do you

11:54

know well funnily enough when it all came out

11:57

David Mitchell of Mitchell and Wann in

11:59

the comics.

11:59

he had to have his book reprinted

12:02

because he had a paragraph in it. Do

12:04

you remember saying about Jimmy

12:06

Savile? He

12:07

was like, it's like Jimmy Savile being a paedophile,

12:10

like he's sort of going, he looks

12:12

so much like one, you just assume he

12:14

is one and you wouldn't be that surprised if it came out that

12:16

he was. But it's also at the same time you

12:18

don't think he is one. It was literally

12:21

that. I think David Walliams had

12:23

a bit as well that had to be, I think one of his books

12:25

had to be reprinted and I think... Well

12:28

all of his books

12:28

should be reprinted, he's a nasty book. Yeah,

12:30

horrible books. I don't mean books. They're little

12:32

working class people and... And Chinese

12:35

people. Horrible people. Anyone overweight. He's

12:37

a horrible writer. Yeah.

12:39

I hate that Quentin Blake does his stuff. Anyway...

12:42

I agree with you on that.

12:45

When you see it I'm like, oh it's Rolled Out and the other one.

12:48

The weird thing is I was never into Rolled Out as a kid,

12:50

I never liked... you'd think that I'd be into that. Never got

12:52

into it, didn't really like him. I liked some of his adult

12:55

fiction. I don't know, I just feel there's

12:58

a real inauthenticity about David

13:01

Walliams. Yeah, I agree. I

13:02

agree. Which we might return to at some point. Yeah,

13:05

what, with an episode? There's

13:08

also, I think there's

13:10

a bit in a Frankie Boyle book where he talks

13:12

about a beloved

13:15

BBC person bragging about having

13:17

a specially adapted ambulance

13:19

that he could abuse children. Oh my fucking

13:21

god, god. He literally sort of

13:23

says it out there, but I'm trying to find

13:26

these bits of,

13:27

basically in between us recording this and

13:29

it being edited, I'll go away and find these bits. Can

13:32

I just stress,

13:34

right? An ambulance. A specially

13:36

adapted ambulance. This is the stuff

13:38

of nightmares. This is the kind of stuff that you

13:41

couldn't even, if you were writing the scariest

13:44

book about the worst person,

13:48

the only starting point of any

13:50

of this that would feel authentic would

13:52

be that it is a man. That is

13:54

the only thing that would go, yes, that's

13:57

the most believable, but the rest

13:59

of it. people would be like, especially

14:01

adapted ambulance. I mean, some

14:04

of the stories about him are just

14:06

stomach turning. It's really

14:09

chilling. And they're like, yeah,

14:12

he, and those are just the ones we know about

14:14

because so many of his victims

14:17

that he targeted were, there

14:19

were a lot of people who had learning disabilities. There were a

14:21

lot of people who were young, vulnerable

14:24

young people that people didn't listen to anyway. You know,

14:26

like looked after children. Some of them were ill. Some

14:28

of them were actually dead when he abused them,

14:30

which we'll get to later on. It is

14:32

genuinely

14:33

vile. This is

14:36

awful. Did I tell you, by the

14:38

way, speaking of awful, I just don't like when your

14:40

stomach turns over. My stomach turned over

14:43

when I overheard a conversation in spa the other day.

14:45

Go on. Right. You know that feeling when you go on

14:47

a roller coaster and your stomach goes, whoa.

14:50

So I was in the local spa near me in Walthamstow

14:53

and it's a bit of a posh

14:55

spa. It's a bit with me so now. I

14:57

was standing in, took my AirPods out for some reason.

15:00

And there was a couple, I'd say couple, like a man

15:02

and a woman. I assumed they were just friends. And

15:04

they were dressed very Jacob Rees, Moggy, but

15:08

not old

15:11

fashioned. Right. Yeah. It just makes

15:13

sense. So I looked at them and I thought,

15:17

there's a pair of dweebs. You know, I don't like

15:19

to judge, but that's what I thought. I'm stood in a queue

15:22

and I just took my AirPods out and

15:24

they're stood behind me. And

15:26

I could feel the presence of them. And the woman said,

15:28

oh,

15:30

did you see the picture that

15:33

James put on Instagram? The

15:36

portrait. And the bloke went,

15:38

I did, yes. Who was it? And

15:41

this is what she said. She went, it

15:43

was one of my lovers.

15:46

Right. My stomach did that thing on

15:48

a roller coaster and I thought, oh, am I going to be sick?

15:51

And I was like, what the fuck am I overhearing? And then

15:53

she went, he went,

15:54

has he seen it? Did you tag him in it? And

15:57

she went, no, because that's the other thing. have

16:00

strict boundaries with each other and he's

16:02

asked me not to tag him in anything.

16:05

And I'm like, what the fuck am I overhearing?

16:07

That is... who

16:10

who wasn't on board the Titanic uses

16:13

the phrases lovers. Thank you.

16:15

I

16:15

thought to myself, this is why

16:17

I had noise cancelling earphones in all the time.

16:19

Because I can't overhear stuff like this

16:21

anymore. And I was hearing it and I was

16:24

just like, why do I have

16:26

to listen to this? Why are you talking

16:28

like this? In... not just in public,

16:30

but just in general. Also, we have very

16:32

strict boundaries, reeks of

16:35

he's married. Thank you. We have

16:37

very strict boundaries. If he's married, I'll deeply

16:39

embarrassed about you. And I'm going

16:41

to bet on that one actually. Or he's her

16:43

dad's mate.

16:44

Oh God. Do you know someone I used to be friends with

16:47

got off with their dad's mate on Christmas Eve

16:49

once? Jesus fucking Christ. How fucking grim

16:51

is that? That's almost incest. Well,

16:55

yeah, yeah, no, it is. It's an abuse of

16:57

trust, isn't it? We're going to be talking a lot of that

16:59

over this episode. I just feel like if you've known someone as

17:01

a child, you shouldn't be bonking them. Yes, if

17:03

you're listening, would you, Alan? Absolutely.

17:05

Right. Oh my God, I can't believe

17:07

we haven't even started. How long? Yeah, nearly 20 minutes before

17:10

we've even started.

17:11

James Wilson Vincent

17:13

Saville was born... It's pronounced

17:16

Seville. Was

17:18

born

17:19

on the 31st of October.

17:21

Fuck me. In 1926.

17:24

Of course he was born on Halloween.

17:27

He was born in concert terrace in Burnley.

17:30

Burley, sorry, in Leeds. He's

17:32

the youngest of seven children, Mary,

17:34

Marjorie, Vincent, John, John and Christina.

17:37

They were a Roman Catholic family in case

17:39

you didn't know the amount of them that I've just

17:41

listed. And the names. Absolutely.

17:45

I'm getting quite fond of the name Margaret. Margaret's

17:48

nice. Mags is fun. Yeah, Maggie.

17:50

Yeah, Maggie's good. My sister-in-law's

17:53

name, Maggie.

17:54

She is. Also, your niece is the

17:56

cutest. She's so cute. She keeps popping

17:58

up on things and I'm like, oh my God. what a cute

18:00

child. She's unbelievable. The happiest,

18:03

surely is. Active. That

18:05

kid's busy. I think my niece looks like

18:07

a kid from the 1940s. Oh, she's so

18:09

cute. Like a war baby. Do you know what she's so like...

18:12

Do

18:13

you know what she's outdoors at? Yeah. I

18:15

love it. Yeah. She's always got like rosy cheeks.

18:17

Rosy cheeks, big curls. Oh, she's

18:20

outside. She's happy. I imagine she sleeps

18:22

well. She does sleep well actually. Yeah, that's what I always

18:24

imagine. She's a good girl. She's very, very cute. Eats

18:27

well, sleeps well.

18:28

Long may it continue, I said.

18:31

His father, Jimmy's father,

18:33

was Vincent Joseph Marie

18:36

Saville. Unusual, that isn't it? Very unusual. I

18:38

love the name Vincent. Vinny? Yes,

18:41

call it. Yeah, I like Vinny's

18:43

goods, Vince. I went to school with a lad called Vincent.

18:45

I was just showing my thinking how old

18:48

the name was. I just think it's really

18:50

cool. He was Irish, Vincent.

18:53

He was at this... His

18:55

father was a bookmaker's clerk. Is it clerk

18:58

or clerk? Clerk, I think. And

19:00

an insurance agent. He died in 1953. And

19:03

I'll be honest with you, I bet he was

19:05

relieved about that. His mother was Agnes

19:08

Monica Kelly.

19:10

I like name Agnes as well. Yeah. In later

19:12

years, he had a very close

19:14

relationship with his mother. He didn't necessarily

19:16

have quite a close relationship with her as a child.

19:18

No. But it was later on in life that this relationship

19:21

developed. He called her the Duchess. I

19:23

think it developed... There's a little bit, and I've seen

19:25

this happen with friends of ours, because he

19:27

started to do well. She liked that. Her son had

19:29

those rights. She liked that he was a bit

19:31

of a celeb and they grew closer.

19:34

And maybe it's that thing of not... I'm not

19:36

blaming her at all, but

19:38

when you're part of a big family and you

19:40

don't get that much attention from your mum, but then

19:42

as you're older, you kind of catch her

19:44

eye a bit. And so I think he liked

19:47

her being sort of a bit showboating about

19:49

him. The Duchess is also what

19:52

Jolyce's friends call him. Yeah.

19:54

I was thinking about that. He claimed that she...

19:59

was the Illigism of Child and Royalty. Which...

20:02

It's

20:03

such a Jack and Vera duck with lines

20:05

at all. Absolutely. He's a fantasist,

20:07

isn't he? He's a complete fantasist. This

20:10

is Jimmy Savile by the way, not Joel Lice. Joel

20:12

Lice is not claiming that he's the

20:14

Illigism of Child and Royalty. I love him if it was there.

20:18

What an episode of Did You Think You Are, that would be. He

20:21

was a very sickly child and

20:23

he had pneumonia when he was aged

20:25

two and he recovered

20:28

very quickly from the pneumonia. But he put this recovery

20:30

down to the intervention of a Scottish

20:33

nun

20:33

called Margaret Sinclair. Margaret

20:35

Sinclair had died in 1925. She was declared venerable

20:39

by Pope John Paul II. Now,

20:42

Jimmy Savile's mother prayed to her.

20:45

She found a pamphlet about her in

20:47

the local church and she started

20:49

praying to her to make

20:52

Jimmy recover and she says that

20:54

that's why he recovered so quickly from pneumonia.

20:57

The nun?

20:58

The nun. Yeah, she prayed to the nun. Dead

21:02

nun. He attended St.

21:04

Anne's Roman Catholic School in Leeds and left

21:06

aged 17... Left at age 14, where

21:09

he worked in an office. You don't mean working in your office.

21:12

At 18 he worked in coal

21:14

mines during World War II as a bevin

21:17

boy. Now bevin boys were young men who

21:19

were conscripted to work in the mines between 1943

21:22

and 1948 to keep coal production

21:24

from declining. It was a programme

21:26

named after Ernest Bevin, the Labour politician

21:29

who was Minister of Labour and National Service at

21:31

the time that this conscription

21:32

came in. It was hard work,

21:34

it was dangerous. Many of the bevin boys

21:37

as well were targets of abuse because

21:39

they were deemed to be draft dodgers or cowards.

21:42

Really? Oh yeah. I also think

21:44

in that kind of atmosphere if you've got really young lads

21:46

some probably dark stuff went on.

21:49

Oh god don't. Don't. Yeah. They

21:51

used to get stopped a lot as assumed deserters

21:53

by the police. That's awful. And it

21:55

was only 1995 that they were awarded medals for the contributions

21:59

of the police.

21:59

So while we're... It's so bad,

22:02

isn't it? That is fucking shit, that, actually.

22:04

You know, he, later in his life, Jimmy

22:07

Savile,

22:08

I spoke to a psychiatrist, and

22:11

she sort of, he, in fact, is

22:13

because his surname's Claire, Anthony

22:15

Claire. There's a transcript that Channel 4

22:18

got of this sort of interview. I

22:20

think it was a Radio 4 series, and in

22:23

it, he talks about, he basically

22:25

says he was kind of emotionally deprived as a child.

22:28

He referred to a Spartan emotional

22:30

regime,

22:31

regime, sorry, I don't even know what that means,

22:34

but Spartan emotional regime, and that's

22:36

why he was sort of, found it difficult to have people

22:38

close to him because he didn't get much sort of love

22:40

at home. I would say that,

22:43

does that feel unusual

22:46

of the time, to have emotionally distant,

22:48

not that? I think that would have been quite normal,

22:50

right? Oh, not really, but also, I don't

22:54

know. I mean, life, you are what

22:56

you make yourself in many ways. I

22:59

don't think you, I've got

23:01

this,

23:02

I mean, I'll be honest, I've got an emotionally distant

23:04

father, but I'm not a fucking nutter.

23:06

Yeah. You know, and it doesn't mean I don't love

23:08

my dad. It doesn't mean my dad doesn't love me.

23:11

I think you saw that you go and

23:12

abuse loads of children. It's the important

23:14

thing to say out there. That is the very important thing. It's

23:17

like, I just feel that there's a lot of excuses

23:20

a lot of the time, aren't there? Nobody,

23:23

some people, but then again, some people, I just

23:26

don't like

23:28

people. And I don't think he like people. No,

23:30

I don't think so. And I think that is perfectly fine, as

23:32

long as you then don't abuse

23:35

them. It's perfectly fine to be alone, or it's

23:37

perfectly fine to not want to interact with

23:39

people. Yeah, but it's, yeah, it's when you

23:41

become an abuser. I also think that, I

23:43

don't think he was necessarily making excuses, but

23:45

I think what's happened a lot since, and we will

23:47

probably do it in this episode, is because

23:49

he's so heinous, that

23:51

people have tried to make sense of, how

23:54

do we get someone, and how do we make sure that doesn't

23:56

happen again? Yes. Sometimes

23:58

I just think some people are bad.

24:00

and that is a fact. I just think some people are

24:03

bad people. I think he's a bad person.

24:07

Yeah, there's a... I mean, actually

24:09

no, I'm not going to get into it. I was going to say that, you

24:11

know,

24:12

disorders that on paper

24:15

make someone a bad person, but I don't want

24:17

anyone with that disorder to listen to this and think that's

24:19

it. No, I feel I'm not interested. Just

24:21

face the fact some people are cunts and not...

24:25

The things as well, the Bevin Boy thing as well, there

24:27

is some sort of thought that he

24:30

lied about the extent of

24:32

his involvement in that because

24:34

it said the

24:37

person who eventually got the Bevin Boys recognised

24:40

invited him. Apparently there's no... A

24:42

lot

24:42

of the documents have been destroyed for,

24:45

you know, about the Bevin Boys, but apparently

24:47

he sort of was like, you know...

24:49

And he was like, oh no, don't, no, no,

24:51

I don't want to come to that. Oh, don't ask me about that. And

24:54

sort of was distancing himself from it. Now you'd

24:56

think somebody who loves being sent of attention,

24:58

loves accolades, loves to

25:00

be, you know, oh, what a great guy I

25:02

am.

25:03

Why was he so... That's very strange,

25:05

isn't it? That's very weird. And he's a liar because none of this happened.

25:08

Listen to this, right? He said that he'd allegedly

25:10

show up to the man in a suit with

25:12

a newspaper, go down in the

25:14

lift reading the paper. He'd get into

25:16

the man, he'd undress, he'd

25:18

wrap the suit in the paper and work naked. Don't

25:21

want to think about this. He would then put

25:23

the suit back on to leave at the end of the shift.

25:25

I don't believe it. With a completely black face. With

25:28

a completely... Yeah. Now the thing

25:30

is, it's... This is bull...

25:32

But then this is that... Every story within me,

25:34

like that's bullshit, but then it

25:37

will end up being verified. Do you know

25:39

what I mean? Maybe he did it once. That's what

25:41

I probably think he did it once. But if you think

25:43

about it, I mean, my dad's

25:46

side of the family were all minors. It's

25:48

hard to work. It's depressing.

25:50

He didn't seem like he's a grafter, does he? No,

25:52

he does not seem like he's

25:54

a grafter. Now, this is where

25:57

he allegedly suffers an injury. And you have to say

25:59

allegedly.

26:00

because there's no documents about this.

26:03

And because he's such a liar, people are saying that

26:05

they don't know if this did happen or not.

26:07

So he reportedly suffered spinal

26:09

injuries from a shot virus explosion in

26:11

the mine.

26:12

Now he spent a lot of time recovering from

26:14

this. He wore a steel corset

26:17

and he walked with sticks. And he spent

26:19

a lot of time bed bound

26:21

recovering from this. And apparently this time that

26:23

he was bed bound, it made him quite

26:25

reflective and made him think about all the things that he wanted

26:27

to do in life. And he spent a lot of time

26:30

listening to the radio, which gave

26:32

him sort of like, oh, maybe I can do this.

26:34

This is something I'd like to be involved in. Three

26:36

years after the accident,

26:38

he became a scrap metal dealer. Legend.

26:41

But during the 1940s, this

26:44

is when he starts, the bad thing about

26:46

him is,

26:47

for someone who looks so elderly for all

26:49

of his life, he's

26:52

across every decade. It's fucking

26:54

weird, isn't it? He's really hard to age. There's

26:57

a picture of him here when he's getting like, his

27:00

OB and he's like, I think he's quite young,

27:02

but because he's got that white hair and

27:05

he's got a bit of a like, you know,

27:07

some people's faces look like they've had a hard life

27:09

from like 20. He's quite

27:11

gone. And can't age him. And like

27:13

his skin's not great. And you know, people

27:16

then did look older as well because they didn't have to take care

27:18

of themselves. No one's having retinol then, are they? I

27:20

think a cigar

27:21

ages you as well. Yes, absolutely. And

27:24

he did drive Rolls Royce's, which is an elderly

27:26

car. I feel. I've

27:28

told you this, I saw him once driving past

27:31

the Etihad Stadium in Manchester and

27:34

I was a cow and my friend and

27:36

we were having some heat debate about something. It

27:39

was a Sunday afternoon and we're driving up past

27:41

the Manchester City Stadium,

27:43

driving past there and we're like, we're gonna chat in. And

27:45

I went, and a Rolls Royce went past and

27:48

Jimmy Savile was driving it and he was sort

27:50

of hunched over the wheel, like a grandma, like,

27:52

yeah. And he had a cigar sticking out of his mouth and

27:54

he's like, in his teeth.

27:56

And he had round glasses on and I

27:58

think they were blue or pink.

27:59

and he's driving and we were arguing

28:02

and I went,

28:04

did you see Jimmy Savile in that car? And he

28:06

was like, yeah, I just saw Jimmy Savile. That

28:08

was Jimmy Savile. It was so fucking weird.

28:11

You know, you think, where does he go in? Yeah,

28:13

yeah. Well,

28:14

it might have been on his way to the Manchester World Infirmary.

28:16

We'll get to that in a bit. He's

28:19

always looked old. He's always looked weird.

28:22

But it's like the fact that he starts his career

28:25

playing records in dance halls in the 1940s. Yeah.

28:29

He claims, you think this is bullshit, he

28:31

was the first person to play a

28:33

music track that people then danced to. Because

28:35

before it would have all been live bands. And

28:38

he basically invented being a DJ. I don't

28:41

believe him. I think this is probably, I think

28:43

America probably happened more there. I

28:45

think that's,

28:47

it's one of those things, I imagine that that

28:49

kind of thing happened in America,

28:52

or happened in general, I think,

28:54

but he just claimed it. He

28:57

certainly popularized it over here, right?

29:00

Yeah, what's that saying? Talent borrows genius steals.

29:03

I think he's just stolen that from Sam. That's a great

29:05

phrase. He, so

29:07

he proclaimed himself the world's

29:09

first DJ. He also claims that the

29:11

first person to use twin turntables

29:14

and a microphone.

29:15

Oh my God, he's like this comedian,

29:18

so you're like, I

29:20

have meant it, give us a drink. Oh my

29:22

God, I hate that, like it's actually

29:24

me that said, oh, there's so many people playing this stuff.

29:27

In comedy there's like a lot of stock phrases, isn't there?

29:30

Like for example,

29:31

there's that one, which I think is one of my favorites, and

29:33

I've never said it myself, like if someone interrupts

29:35

you when you're on stage, it's

29:38

that thing of when they go, oh, excuse

29:40

me, I don't come down to where

29:42

you work and not the cocks out of your mouth while you're

29:44

working. That one. What else

29:46

is there? Where did you learn to whisper

29:49

in a helicopter? Yeah,

29:51

there's all these stock phrases that

29:53

I'd never use one because I'd rather dance. Do you remember

29:55

this one when we started? And sleep.

29:58

Oh God, don't.

29:59

I suppose I'll use that

30:02

like maybe two years ago and I was like what

30:04

the please don't. It was a real blast from the past.

30:06

Oh if someone just turns around, oh what's this

30:08

amount on the voice? Yeah. That

30:11

one. Oh I hate it, it's horrible isn't it? Although

30:13

weirdly I think Danny Mac did invent

30:17

that. That does sound like something that Danny did. And then people

30:19

took it as a stocky. Here's one that

30:21

Danny Mac invented. So in the first section

30:23

we're gonna have an act, then we're gonna have a break, about 15-20 minutes.

30:26

Then we'll have another act, then we'll have a break, 15-20 minutes, then

30:28

you'll have a final act, then we'll have a break of about

30:30

a week or months. Like whatever the night

30:32

was, which is really funny. And now people use

30:34

it like it's a stock phrase but he definitely invented

30:37

it. A good friend of mine, Daniel Glakklin, I

30:40

told him off about something the

30:42

other day and I can't remember it was now. I

30:44

was trying to remember, I think it was quite funny. Took

30:47

me toys out of the pram and then had

30:49

to creep back. So

30:52

he said that he did this. He

30:54

said that he used twin turntables

30:57

and a microphone in 1947. However

31:00

this isn't true as twin turntables

31:02

were in the BBC handbook in 1929

31:04

and also for

31:07

sale in Gramophone magazine in 1929.

31:10

Right so he's like... And

31:12

you know what happened in 1929 Rachel? What

31:14

was

31:15

that? The Wall Street crash.

31:16

Wall Street crash!

31:18

And also if twin

31:20

turntables were in the BBC handbook, maybe

31:22

they should have put in the BBC handbook. Don't

31:25

touch children that come to shows

31:27

that you've recorded. That might have been helpful.

31:30

You've got two hands, one for each turntable.

31:32

Don't touch children with either of them. This

31:36

injury that he had, it made him very

31:39

keen to get out into the world

31:41

to a degree. He wanted

31:43

to travel a bit, he became a keen cyclist.

31:46

Not a fan of cyclists, don't at me. My

31:48

interactions with them have been on

31:51

the whole negative. But you don't drive. Yeah

31:54

but I walk around as a pedestrian and these pumps

31:56

are aggressive. Have you seen these people? In London

31:58

it's a different type of cyclist. I think.

32:01

They're quite... Do you know

32:03

what I saw one before and the fucking anger

32:05

on his face, it's

32:07

like what is wrong with you? I bet

32:09

if you started cycling you'd be like people

32:12

drive like cunts and they just step out in front

32:14

of you. I bet you... No, no, no. There

32:16

is a special kind of cyclist and

32:18

I swear to God, if you're a cyclist and

32:21

you want to

32:22

write... I don't fucking care. Jeremy

32:24

Vine, those... Have you seen those videos

32:27

he puts on Twitter? No. When 99%

32:29

of the time he's in the fucking wrong.

32:31

I just... It

32:34

annoys the shit out of me. What are you doing on Jeremy Vine's

32:36

Twitter? No, people like it. Some people

32:38

like things don't they and then it shows up on your feed.

32:40

I'm not honest. It's a dog.

32:43

But he's so... What's JV got to say

32:45

today? So aggressive like, banging

32:47

on the side of buses going, really, really?

32:50

It's like, you're in the wrong as well, mate.

32:52

This

32:52

is very dangerous

32:54

to attack cyclists because

32:57

they will come for you. No, because

32:59

they can die and they've got nothing protecting them.

33:02

Look, there's an attitude with

33:04

these cunts and it

33:07

battles me. And also, let me just say this, London,

33:10

a

33:11

lot of the time your Amsterdam system

33:13

of cycle lanes, it doesn't work. No.

33:16

It does not fucking work. No. I appreciate

33:18

what you're trying to do. I'd love to cycle

33:20

myself, but it doesn't work. I

33:23

wouldn't. I thought it was immediately dying.

33:25

Why did I just say that? Because I was lying. Yeah.

33:27

I was absolutely lying. I'd love

33:29

to cycle. God, I

33:32

would love to. So he'd

33:35

cycle... He used to cycle through France

33:38

and he also took part in the 1951 tour

33:40

of Britain's

33:41

cycle race. Now,

33:44

I was just looking at this a few

33:46

days ago, researching, and the

33:48

cycling UK forum. There was a post

33:50

on the day of his death, right? Celebrating

33:53

him.

33:53

And then one later, I

33:56

was trying to seriously discuss

33:58

all of his achievements after all.

33:59

all the abuse information

34:02

had come out. So it's like, well

34:04

yes, you know, this might be, but you can't take away

34:06

from him. No, this is the thing that

34:08

really pops his head up a

34:10

lot. And it was the final

34:12

joke in my show that I just taught

34:15

where,

34:17

because what would happen is I'd mentioned Jimmy Savile at the end

34:19

of the show and some people would clap

34:21

the joke and then I would go,

34:23

it's interesting to clap Jimmy Savile

34:26

and then I'd say 40 Money for Cherries and Deniable

34:28

because I thought it was a really, I'm

34:30

trying to satirise the idea that people have added

34:32

that up and gone, ah, well it's all right, but

34:35

he,

34:36

and it's so fascinating because I do think there's

34:38

a lot of people that silently think that. They go, well

34:40

he did do a lot for charity. But like,

34:42

all right, well let him fuck your kid then. Well, I

34:44

would rather, I think he,

34:48

I don't think the charity thing should even be mentioned in

34:50

the same breath anymore. No. Because it wasn't

34:52

a charitable act, it was an act of deflection.

34:55

Yeah. It was a look over there, don't look at me

34:57

act. He even said, I think in this

35:00

interview with a psychiatrist

35:02

was like, I got no interest in charity.

35:05

He just like running and it was, you

35:07

know, he could, it was a way. Also then again he

35:09

was a bloody liar as well because all the stuff that

35:11

he did, so he took part in

35:13

wrestling. He said that he did 107 professional fights. He

35:17

also claimed to have done 300 professional bike races

35:20

and 212 marathons, fuck off,

35:23

right? So

35:24

there's people who had seen

35:26

this, witnesses had seen him showing up at

35:28

marathons to start the race

35:31

and then appearing in a

35:33

flash of light at the end. No.

35:36

He'd been driven. No. Yes.

35:39

He's a liar.

35:41

This is, the man is a nutter. So

35:46

this is what he'd do. He'd turn up,

35:48

oh yeah, round, round, round, round. Wouldn't you just

35:50

see him getting like in the Rolls Royce?

35:53

Wouldn't there also, wouldn't there be thousands of witnesses?

35:56

Yeah, there's different cars. Well you know, wouldn't you see him getting

35:58

in the car or you know, there'd be thousands of witnesses. People did

36:00

say it, but bear in mind, these are the

36:02

days for social media, these are the days

36:04

before, you know, you couldn't do that now. You'd

36:07

have to finish whatever it is or fail

36:10

because people would say it. Maybe a video

36:12

phone. Yeah, this is back, you know, 70s, 80s

36:15

people. Look at me reeling

36:17

from that, like that's the worst thing he's ever done. Exactly!

36:21

During the mid-1950s though, his DJing

36:23

career was really taking off. Also, I said

36:25

now then, now then, this is how he used

36:28

to speak as well. Bear in mind, what annoys

36:30

me most about, actually, this is not the thing that

36:32

annoys me most about Jimmy Savile. One of the things that

36:34

annoys me about Jimmy Savile is he's a working class

36:36

northerner who did really well, and this

36:38

is how it's ended. To be fair,

36:41

to get to the level that he did as a working class man,

36:44

he did alright. But

36:45

do you know what, that's part of me thinks

36:47

that, you know he's so

36:49

weird and eccentric and creepy

36:52

and making these weird jokes. I honestly

36:54

think that BBC would have been so posh

36:56

then, even posher than it is now, or as posh

36:58

as it is now, that they just thought,

37:00

oh that's how working class people

37:03

are like. I think that they just thought they were a different

37:05

breed and like, when he makes those

37:07

weird hiding in plain sight jokes,

37:09

they're like, well that's just the off-colour blue jokes

37:11

that a working class person would make. Is this what made it out, is he

37:14

made it out of for me? Is this what's fucking us for now? That's what I'm

37:16

saying, yeah. Is this fucking Jimmy Savile's? I

37:18

mean it's part of a culture where they just wouldn't have

37:20

understood, and also they

37:23

probably went, oh we've got him and he's very public

37:25

and look that shows that we like. Yeah,

37:28

yes, yes, I agree with that. But it's

37:30

the way, now

37:33

then, now then, guys and gals, you know that

37:35

kind of way spoke. Patter.

37:38

Patter, thank you. But it is pattering

37:40

that it's rehearsed and it's deflective and

37:43

it's, do you know what it is? You know when you're on stage, you

37:45

do it when you're very new and you

37:47

go,

37:48

you need to buy yourself time on stage, you go, so what

37:50

else can I tell you about yourself? And that sentence

37:52

is the comic buying themselves like three seconds

37:55

to go, what bitch should I do now? Because

37:58

as you get better at comedy, you're just quite happy.

37:59

It's just not saying anything for a couple of seconds. Yeah,

38:02

or roll with the punches. Or, you know, like you've

38:04

already set it up two jokes ago. What

38:06

else can I tell you? Yeah, what else can

38:08

I tell you about myself? There is a comedian who

38:10

still does that regular, who's been going

38:12

too long for that to be acceptable. Go

38:15

on.

38:16

I can't tell. We're gonna... I'm

38:19

taking no chances. Oh,

38:21

really? Yeah. Fucking hell.

38:24

How has somebody been going over 20 years and still appears

38:26

in amateur? I don't fucking

38:27

know. Ha ha ha, you're a fucking witch.

38:29

What is your talent in itself? Ha ha! Keeping

38:32

it fresh. Keeping it fresh. Like every

38:34

day's the first gig. Ooh,

38:37

yeah, every day's my first silence day.

38:41

Yeah, so I think that now then, now then,

38:44

because he does it... There's an

38:46

interview in The Independent with his journalist,

38:48

Lynn Barber, and he's just

38:50

got his knighthood and she asks him,

38:53

what's this room? It's about you and little girls. Oh,

38:55

really?

38:56

Let him enjoy himself? Can you not have one

38:58

day? Congratulations

39:00

on the award. What's this about

39:02

you being a pedo? But she says

39:05

he goes into... She uses the phrase

39:07

patter and it would have been buying him... He's

39:09

not expecting that and he's buying

39:11

himself time. Sid

39:13

Vicious? Oh, Johnny Rotten, sorry. Said

39:16

it about him, didn't it? Yeah, he did. Didn't

39:19

he say it on television? Yeah.

39:21

Like you're saying that they all knew about Jimmy Sappell. Well,

39:24

we should talk at some point about I'm just gonna open this

39:26

because my lips are very dry. That

39:29

sounds like my fine able to zip in. Can

39:31

I just say, she has just unzipped her trousers. You

39:33

fucking witch. What's that? Is

39:36

that Vadgisil? This is actually eyelash

39:38

glue but it's come open.

39:40

During the 1950s,

39:42

his career was taken off. He was managing

39:44

the Plaza Ballroom on Oxford Street in Manchester.

39:47

He lived in Great Clue Street in Salford and

39:49

he was often seen sitting on the steps of his home. Now, here's

39:52

my theory of why he was often sitting on the steps. Great Clue Street

39:55

is where we used to go when I was at school to play

39:57

hockey. There was a playing

39:59

field opposite.

39:59

those houses that he used to live

40:02

in. And this is why I think it was a sense sitting

40:04

on his steps, because those

40:06

fields, plain fields were used, and

40:09

still are used, by local schools

40:11

in the local area. That is awful. So

40:13

that's my theory on that. Well,

40:16

also, I think that, so when

40:18

he got this job managing this nightclub,

40:20

he was known as like

40:22

a thug and a bully, but he would

40:24

hire basically very strong local,

40:27

door staff, and he used to sit on

40:29

that Luther Roo document. She sort of brags about

40:31

beating people up and stuff, and I

40:34

don't think he ever did. I think he was a pussy. But

40:36

he always had very tough people around him.

40:39

So he started to cultivate,

40:41

it was like a low key gangster thing,

40:44

the gold, the Rolls Royce, that always

40:46

have protection around you.

40:48

There was, and at that time in Manchester, there

40:50

was a lot of gangsters

40:53

in the old sense of it, of double-breasted

40:55

suit gangsters. And

40:58

obviously the money was still tied up in drugs and all

41:00

that kind of stuff,

41:01

but it isn't the gangsters

41:04

that you have now that's more gunish.

41:07

Do you know what I mean? Like it's that old school gangster.

41:09

Well, I think to be honest, say if there was a gangster,

41:12

also, I think a lot of gangsters,

41:15

maybe if they knew the fact that he was in a horrendous

41:18

pedophile and abuser,

41:21

I don't think they would have been very tolerant of him. You

41:23

don't know. That like thieves code

41:26

thing. I don't think, I think if a lot of

41:28

them knew that he was abusing

41:30

young girls. I

41:32

don't think you can look at, I don't know, because

41:34

look at how the craze treated the people they

41:36

were around and in relationships

41:39

with and their ages and how they exploited

41:41

them. I don't think, I don't think. Yeah,

41:43

but there's a difference in, I mean, What,

41:45

they're southerners.

41:46

Yeah. It's

41:48

to

41:48

be expected. I don't know,

41:51

I don't know. It's just,

41:52

maybe I'm looking for a glimmer of hope within

41:55

this story and I'm not going to get it, am

41:57

I? He was in high demand

41:59

as a d***.

41:59

He was managing the mecca lecano

42:02

in Leeds and he managed

42:04

the Palais dancehall in Ilford

42:06

as well. His one day evening

42:09

records only dance sessions were hugely

42:11

popular with teenagers. Now my Auntie Trish had

42:13

a run-in with Jimmy Sable. What?

42:16

Yes, a Manchester dancehall. She

42:19

never liked him

42:20

and they went to this dance one evening and her

42:22

friend had a crucifix necklace that she'd

42:24

lost. So they were looking for this necklace.

42:26

They were never going to find it but they were showing them willing. And

42:29

then he came over and he went, oh what are you looking for girls? And

42:31

one of them said, oh my friend's lost a necklace. He said, oh that's

42:33

the one you left on my bed post, come up and I'll

42:36

get it back for you. And Auntie Trish

42:38

was just like,

42:39

yeah he's a weirdo. How old were they?

42:43

Probably, like teenagers

42:46

I would say. And he was

42:48

considerably older than the people who

42:51

were there. Yeah. But

42:53

this weird thing of like, he wasn't in his 50s, he

42:55

just looked like he was. Because if you think about, if

42:57

you go back to when you were a teenager,

43:00

anywhere, so when you're going out, let's say 16 onwards,

43:03

there was, when we were, not that I'm saying it's all right,

43:06

there was fucking creepy guys who were like in

43:08

their 30s knocking around making

43:10

sort of creepy comments. So you'd just

43:12

be like, oh, like I think that's been really

43:14

normalised for a really long time and I fucking

43:16

hope it still isn't. Yeah. Does that

43:18

have the creepy woman hanging around? No.

43:22

No. Can I be the creepy woman? There's a gap

43:24

in the market, mate. There's a gap in the market. And probably

43:26

as you look like a fucking child, so. Is that creepy?

43:29

It's not that creepy, eh? A

43:30

dress like Jimmy Savile. Oh

43:33

god. It was

43:35

a flamboyant figure in and around Manchester

43:38

and Leeds. Now

43:40

as we've said, he was considerably older than the

43:42

teenagers in the dance halls, but

43:44

it was common knowledge that

43:47

he would engage with young girls who clearly weren't

43:49

old enough. So there you go, there's my theory gone.

43:52

But also, again, culturally,

43:55

the Rolling Stones were, you

43:57

know, there was a lot of people who were having sex

44:00

or relations with like girls who

44:03

are 14, 15, 16. And

44:05

it was just an accolade. He was like, oh, if they're old enough to come out

44:07

and put on a miniskirt, they're old enough. What did you tell

44:09

Paul McCartney said about him? He said that, of

44:11

course, he was talking about, you know, girls that would

44:14

wait for the Beatles and stuff like that. He was like, of course

44:16

there was girls that were not old

44:18

enough. And he said, but there was more

44:20

than enough girls who were old enough. So

44:23

why would you, he was

44:24

like, why would you do that? That's

44:27

so interesting. Which does make a lot, it's like, they're

44:29

like, yeah, of course there was a lot of girls and a lot

44:31

of young girls, but

44:33

there was plenty of girls that were

44:36

old enough. So why would you engage

44:39

with the children? It's

44:41

a choice then, isn't it? It's not a like, it's

44:44

a lifestyle choice. But you

44:46

know, it's like, it's not only 14

44:48

year old fancy

44:49

me. Exactly.

44:52

Which I imagine is what Mark Owen asked of

44:54

all the young girls. You know, have I mentioned

44:56

this before? So my friend, Leanne, I

45:01

was thinking about this about four times a month.

45:04

When Take That recorded like, it

45:06

was their first live show and it was on TV,

45:09

it was on channel four at one point. It was like

45:11

a big thing like, oh, Take That are on channel

45:13

four of this show and the live show. And there's a

45:15

bit where Mark Owen humps the floor

45:18

in that Johnson's bag. Okay, yeah, yeah. T-shirt.

45:21

And my mate, Leanne, even as like a 14 year

45:23

old was like, oh, I just felt dead, sorry for

45:25

him. That's so funny. I

45:28

just really felt sorry for him because

45:30

it was just umping the floor. Oh

45:33

God. This is

45:35

mad though. She's now bringing her daughter

45:37

to an as 14 soon. She's bringing her daughter to see

45:39

me do stand up. That's trying to get

45:41

me around it. It's mad, isn't it? Yeah,

45:44

yeah, that's really strange. Oh, I'm gonna bring this,

45:46

but is there anything in the show

45:48

that I was like, I'm not fucking reading it yet. But

45:51

she said, I said, there'll be sort of,

45:53

I said, there'll be swearing. She's like, she's fine with that sexual

45:56

content. I went nothing that, you know,

45:58

I said, look, I don't want to feel, I don't want to.

45:59

I feel like you felt when you saw Mark Owen hump

46:02

the floor.

46:03

She's like, please don't mention that. Mark

46:07

Owen hump in the floor. While

46:11

he was working at Ilford, an executive

46:13

at Decca Records discovered him. Which

46:15

is huge. Yeah, and he joined Radio

46:17

Luxembourg in 1958. That was

46:19

a huge radio station. Yeah, and

46:22

this is back in the time where radio was king,

46:24

especially those commercial stations.

46:27

I miss Atlantic 252, bring it back,

46:29

which I've only just realised is a pirate radio station. Is

46:32

it? Yeah, it wasn't called Atlantic 252 because

46:35

it was out in the Atlantic. Because I was

46:37

like, how do they, there was no talking

46:39

on it and they would play. I remember sitting there

46:41

and then they played like, dodgy good enough

46:43

and then they went into double back in anger

46:46

and then played all these great songs. Whereas like legally

46:48

on radio, when you play music, you have to talk for

46:50

a certain amount. You can't just play back

46:52

to back records. Whereas if you're out in the

46:55

sea, there's no- Oh, is that right? I'm pretty sure.

46:57

Let me Google it before I go on pirate

46:59

radio. I'll see

47:01

if Atlantic- Do you know, good radio

47:04

is a joy to hear. I don't listen to music

47:06

radio other than I'll have one of them, where's

47:08

the happy busy words on obviously repping the brand. It's

47:10

a good, you know, it is good, isn't it? I can't

47:12

believe I've just said that like Alan Partridge. Okay,

47:15

so Atlantic 252 was long wave, yeah.

47:18

It was a 90s Manchester radio. Yeah,

47:21

even though it was based in Ireland. Yeah,

47:24

it started

47:25

as a pirate radio station. Interesting, so

47:28

good. You keep waving to people

47:30

behind me and when I turn around there's no one there. And

47:34

so,

47:35

Radio Luxembourg, huge at the

47:37

time. By night, so he worked for them for a long,

47:39

long time. In 968 he presented six programs

47:42

a week and his Saturday show reached

47:44

six million listeners. Now that's a lot because I'm sure there

47:46

was only eight million people in the world there. He

47:49

was one of the leading DJs in Britain in 1960s. He

47:52

joined Radio 1 in 1968 and became

47:54

a TV regular. He also had a couple

47:57

of singles out.

47:58

What, singing? Yeah. Hold

48:00

on, so 1968, so he was two, he's 42 when he first starts

48:03

on Radio 1, which is mad, isn't

48:08

it? But now they put you out to pasture when you

48:10

get to 34. Well, this is nothing because no one age 40

48:13

listens to, I

48:15

mean, it's that thing about, I used to listen to Radio 1,

48:18

now if I put it on, I'm like, what the fuck is this

48:20

noise? It's so noisy. It's so noisy.

48:23

I love Greg James, I think he's great, and

48:25

a really good DJ, he does the breakfast show, but

48:27

the music itself, I'm like, this is chaos. I

48:30

don't, I can't. But it's

48:32

not for us. Exactly. What

48:34

he was... You graduate, you move on. What was good

48:36

is that he, not to give him credit,

48:39

but he did manage to tap into

48:41

youth popular culture. I wonder why?

48:44

Oh, God. Yeah,

48:47

but that's not how you get it, it's not by osmosis,

48:49

is it? He... You mean

48:52

he was around young people? This gives him access,

48:55

he knew exactly what he was doing. And

48:57

he wanted to know what there is, the equivalent of, I've got puppies in the van,

49:00

right? Because he wanted to know what they're interested in. This

49:03

is exactly it. So he

49:05

was a powerful person at the BBC as well by this point.

49:08

So a

49:09

chap called David Hardwick, who's on one of the documentaries

49:12

that I watched, who seems really lovely actually.

49:14

You know, I suppose he's got a nice vibe

49:16

about them. Although, I'll be honest, if you

49:18

are watching a documentary about Jimmy Savile, it is, any,

49:20

Piers Morgan could come on. Oh, he's got all of the bags. Sweet

49:23

relationship. Thank

49:25

God for that. So

49:27

David Hardwick,

49:29

he was working with him, he was a regular contributor

49:32

to his radio shows and TV

49:34

shows. Now he said, oh, I'll give you a lift

49:36

back to where he lived. He said, oh, okay, cool.

49:39

Now they stopped off for a rest. He

49:41

went for a wee. And when he... So

49:43

Jimmy Savile drives a van as well at this point, I've had

49:45

that in mind. When he came back, two

49:48

14-year-old girls ran out of his van,

49:50

shouting, right? So

49:53

he's like, what the fuck's going on? So

49:56

David, this colleague, is like, well, I'm

49:58

going to have to say something.

49:59

because this isn't normal. Because for the rest

50:02

of the Jimmy, Jimmy's have all said nothing. Nobody

50:05

said anything. So he

50:07

went to somebody and he actually said, look, this is what's

50:09

happened. I think there's something strange going on. And

50:11

the response was very much, well, that's Jimmy,

50:14

we can't say anything. But

50:16

fair play to this bloke because he never

50:19

engaged with him or watched him on anything ever again.

50:21

So

50:22

was the idea that if he came forward, it's like

50:25

he's untouchable because he's so popular?

50:27

Yes. And it wasn't

50:29

even in the time of like, the problem we have

50:31

now is that there's some like, well-loved,

50:34

in inverted commas people that

50:36

aren't outed because of like, well,

50:38

NDAs, but also super injunctions

50:41

and the libel laws. So it wasn't, that

50:43

wasn't the issue then. So it was just

50:45

a cultural thing, right? Yeah,

50:47

I mean, the bad thing is I think,

50:50

you know, like now, if some celebrity

50:53

is having many affairs and they

50:55

get a super injunction, I'm

50:57

like, whatever, I don't give

50:59

a fuck. But the problem with this

51:02

is, this is abuse.

51:05

It's hurting other people. Do you know what I mean? It's like,

51:07

if a celebrity wants to protect their, you

51:09

know, brand as far as to go

51:11

and, you know, oh, super injunction

51:14

about this, can't discuss the fact that I had affairs, you can't discuss the

51:16

fact that, you know, I'm seeing it this brothel every two weeks

51:18

or whatever. You do whatever,

51:20

right? Because you're engaging with people and I'm

51:22

assuming it's 100% consensual. This is

51:25

abuse. So the problem is it's like,

51:27

you know, maybe there are people that, if

51:30

you went to somebody high up and went, oh, so-and-so

51:32

is having an affair with the

51:34

receptionist or whatever, they

51:37

could say, well, you know, that's just so-and-so. It's

51:39

not about business, right? Because they're all

51:41

grownups. But when

51:43

someone's coming to you and saying,

51:46

he's got two children in his van

51:48

and they ran out screaming, that is not

51:50

the time to be going, oh, well, that's just you, mate. Oh,

51:54

that was a seagull. He disagreed.

51:57

That was a sound effect of the two girls

51:59

running.

51:59

From the back, but do you think it's also

52:02

part of a culture where like any

52:04

girl who's like over 11? Would

52:08

have been seen as like a Slot

52:11

if they're they're getting in a car the guy. Yeah,

52:13

I I feel like it's the view of

52:17

Girls as well because and I think it's a view working

52:19

class girls because this will get to

52:21

a bit later on a lot

52:22

of these Girls were just you know,

52:25

they've been in homes or you know, it's

52:27

not assaulting posh girls Is he exactly

52:29

you know that it's vulnerable

52:32

young girls and it's vulnerable young girls hanging

52:34

around The the student is invited

52:36

to the studios. He knows who we

52:38

can and can't do this with you know For

52:41

every girl that is met that he

52:43

knows you can

52:44

Abuse he's probably met a few that is like

52:46

I'm not gonna You try

52:49

my luck. Yeah, so is is

52:51

a pretty like a horrible shark isn't it? But they

52:54

are good at like sharks interesting. I'm

52:56

gonna talk about this is some friends recently Who've

52:58

been having a difficult time with sharks?

53:01

well in many ways, yeah more dangerous men and

53:05

We're talking about how you know if you've been

53:07

in a bad relationship what a relationship would be like

53:10

moving forward and how you have to be careful because

53:12

That's when you're vulnerable and there are some

53:15

Men women or genders who can smell

53:18

it in the water like sharks with blood like

53:20

they'll they'll just that's why

53:22

often You know people who leave

53:24

an abusive relationship go straight into another one But

53:26

I think it's it's because they can sense

53:28

that vulnerability. Yeah that can be exploited

53:31

Yeah, and I think he would have been

53:33

very astute to who could have been exploited and not

53:37

100% he knew exactly what he was doing and

53:40

what he used to do as well He spent

53:42

his week. I mean he was busy how

53:44

he found the time to do any

53:45

of this I don't know he he spent his

53:47

time between Manchester and London the

53:50

week between Manchester London It hosted

53:52

shows and DJing events He also made his

53:54

way back to Leeds once a week to see the Duchess

53:56

this sounds like our schedule Yeah, it does

53:59

doesn't it sounds like the schedule

53:59

stand-up opinion. He presented

54:02

the first ever Top of the Pops which

54:04

was a very big program here. Every

54:06

Thursday it was on during, when the years that

54:08

I watched. Yeah, so it would be basically a chart show where

54:11

the bands would come and famously perform live.

54:14

Yeah, loved it. Well, live, they'd

54:16

mind quite often. Yeah. Yeah. Loved it. But they were

54:18

meant to be doing it live and that was the thing. They

54:20

were there, they were in the studio, people, whoo, dancing.

54:22

Yeah, all the pretty girls would be put at the front. Yeah, everyone

54:25

loved it. And so he presented

54:27

the very first ever Top of the Pops which was actually

54:29

filmed in Manchester. Was it? Yes. In

54:31

the Granada Studios? No, it was in

54:34

a church. Really? It was

54:36

in Fallowfield. Where was it? It was

54:38

a studio in Fallowfield that was an old church, I

54:40

believe. Wow. Was it Platch?

54:42

It could have been Platch Apple,

54:43

who knows? So it was early appearances

54:46

by The Beatles that were on Top of the Pops. So this is

54:48

Paul McCartney said that they, as I

54:51

sit here with my Paul McCartney t-shirt

54:53

on and I've mentioned him twice, yeah, you are pushing

54:55

in a generally, you're on the commission. Do you like Paul McCartney? Yes, I do.

54:58

Paul McCartney said that

55:00

he would often give The Beatles lifts in

55:02

his van. Oh no,

55:04

they'd give him lifts in their van. What a fucking

55:07

weird van. Do you know what he's buying? The Beatles can have

55:09

a van. Jimmy Savile cannot have a van. Don't

55:11

give him a van. Don't even give him a

55:13

motorcycle or the sidecar. He can't be trusted.

55:15

No, he can't be trusted. So Paul

55:17

McCartney said that they often gave Jimmy

55:19

Savile lifts in the van when they'd been doing

55:22

performances and he'd hosted them. But

55:25

Paul McCartney said he'd never have invited them

55:27

back into his house, which he found

55:30

weird. So there's The Beatles,

55:32

obviously. Good working class lads

55:34

thinking, oh, Jimmy will invite us in for a cup

55:36

of tea after his journey and he wouldn't

55:39

ever invite them in for a cup of tea. And Paul

55:41

McCartney was like, that's weird.

55:44

I mean, of all the weird things he's done, that's not that weird.

55:46

No, but it is something that you would

55:49

find, yeah, that stands out, right? Because

55:51

why does he want to protect his privacy

55:54

that much? Yeah.

55:55

But you also have remarks, Paul McCartney also

55:57

remarks on the fact that Jimmy Savile was so much

55:59

older. older than the Beatles at the time

56:02

and the teenagers that were in the gigs.

56:05

So it was not, Jimmy Samuels was known to all

56:07

the big acts from the Rolling

56:10

Stones to Cliff Richard

56:11

and he was the face of youth culture as

56:14

I've written here for some fucking insane

56:16

reason. Yeah and like an endorsement

56:18

of him championing could make a big

56:20

difference to people's profile. Yeah,

56:24

it could. So is that weird thing of

56:26

then, because he's got this weird position on top

56:28

of the Pops and because he's adjacent to youth

56:30

culture and he gets his jumping

56:33

top of the Pops. It then compounds because

56:35

then, acting with him and

56:37

then he gets, he talks about it, he's like,

56:40

but they're like, oh, you know, do you get hustled

56:42

by little girls? He's like, oh no, because that's what I'm trying

56:44

to be, all the celebrities and they want to be near them. But

56:47

he is right and he did kind of do that deliberately

56:50

and he becomes then important to pop stars

56:53

and then he will get, you know, all

56:56

the attention. So, Grim, there's

56:59

an episode of, is it top of the Pops or

57:01

whatever show that he's presenting, there's

57:04

him and Gary Glitter. Fuck

57:06

not.

57:06

And it's quite clear that Jimmy Savile has got his

57:09

handle. A girl skirt. It's so

57:11

disgusting. Yeah, fucking Gary Glitter as well. Jesus Christ.

57:15

That someone, I can't remember who his, has

57:17

a bit of stand up and it's a true story, maybe it's Harriet

57:20

Dyer, about how they wrote to Jim

57:22

or Fix It, which is, we should explain that.

57:25

Oh yes, we'll explain that in a minute. So, there was a program that

57:27

he fronted and said, can

57:29

I meet Gary Glitter?

57:31

Oh God, who is that? It must be someone

57:33

older than Harriet. Is it Rob, for some

57:36

reason it's Rob Rouse? Is it Rob Rouse? I

57:38

love Rob Rouse. Rob Rouse seems to bring to

57:40

mind with that. That's because it's

57:43

true and it's such a funny thing. So

57:45

Jim or Fix It was a program that he was on the

57:47

BBC and it was basically kids would

57:49

write in and say, I just

57:52

want to work, I want to go to a chocolate factory and they

57:54

would take the kid there and film it. And

57:56

the whole thing was, Jim will fix it for you. He'll make it

57:58

happen.

57:59

be like I want to be a there'd be tiny

58:02

things to I want to work on a check out yeah

58:04

local you know Tesco to

58:06

I want to fly a fighter pine it's always

58:09

it was a really great kind of warm very

58:11

I've never seen this show because I wasn't allowed to watch him

58:14

and so he was

58:16

this is the point though you've seen a someone to trust yeah

58:19

he fronted a campaign to wear seatbelts as

58:21

well clunk clink every trip that

58:23

was his catchphrase on there it

58:25

was a face of a stranger danger campaign for children

58:28

yeah there's a book yeah Harriet Dyer's

58:29

got that I've got that book mad

58:32

isn't it it was in the loft for years at our

58:34

house it's still there he won a Mary

58:36

Whitehouse award for wholesome

58:38

family entertainment Jesus

58:40

Jim will fix it

58:42

was hosted by him obviously from 1975 it had

58:46

15 million viewers and it's very peak

58:49

there was 5,000 letters a day oh

58:52

my god this is what he said though despite

58:54

being you know the face of youth culture and working

58:56

with children he claimed to hate

58:58

children he said they should be eaten at birth all right

59:00

Jim he sometimes as well

59:02

said that and he had to say things like

59:04

this as suspicion about

59:07

him being in the public I'm working with children was

59:09

very high which

59:11

I don't agree with because if you look at all the

59:13

contemporary accounts which will

59:15

will talk about as we talk about his crimes

59:18

that wrong loads

59:20

of people go I didn't think he was

59:22

what he was because I had never heard of a pedophile

59:25

I had never heard of a child master I'd never heard

59:27

of it like at the time it was in this pre

59:30

innocence thing a bit that documentary

59:32

on Netflix is a great example of it that

59:34

one is it the stranger next door

59:36

you know the bit where the in the doctor bar

59:38

yeah yeah but

59:41

that that pedophile was

59:43

grooming that whole family and that child and

59:46

the narrative there is very much in it in a time where

59:48

we didn't really know that there were people who would

59:50

do things like that you know you get like dirty old

59:52

man or it was very much brushed under the

59:54

carpet yeah it's like well you people

59:57

thought kids were liars yes which is why the Catholic

59:59

Church and all

59:59

institutions got away with it for so long because it

1:00:02

would be over there just making up stories as opposed to that

1:00:04

horrible thing of like all that

1:00:06

person is doing the worst thing imaginable

1:00:09

or you just remove the child from

1:00:11

the situation because the person doing the

1:00:14

whatever it is they're doing is too powerful. Yeah

1:00:17

have I told you this story about a comedian who's

1:00:19

represented by this agency actually who

1:00:23

early days we went did a script thing

1:00:25

with him and he was telling us this story about

1:00:27

how I must have told this before but to

1:00:29

audition for it to be the choir in his school as a

1:00:31

boy school the music teacher

1:00:34

would play the piano with one hand you'd stand there and sing

1:00:36

and

1:00:36

he'd put his hand down the back of your trousers

1:00:39

and feel your ass with the other hand and

1:00:41

he was saying it was just sort of like it was just

1:00:43

accepted and then one parent

1:00:47

came

1:00:47

forward and was like hold on that's

1:00:50

not that my son came home and said this that

1:00:53

is absolutely not acceptable and the

1:00:55

teacher said you're gonna have to leave and

1:00:57

the kid was moved on

1:00:59

and this is not that long ago this is well

1:01:01

this is probably a similar time this

1:01:04

guy's a bit older than me maybe like ten years older than me

1:01:06

max what the fucking

1:01:08

hell I honestly think the culture was something

1:01:11

we can't even understand and what I hope is

1:01:13

the culture now which is still so like gray in

1:01:15

areas in another ten years time

1:01:18

what we think is acceptable won't be and

1:01:20

people will be safer because of it but

1:01:22

I honestly think that

1:01:24

shit like that was incredibly normalized

1:01:27

that's fucking weird sinister yeah

1:01:30

which is why so much of his stuff would have been like oh he's just

1:01:32

you know would have been turned a blind

1:01:34

eye because the actual like there just wasn't

1:01:37

a language for it not that I'm obviously

1:01:39

not excusing him or the people who allowed

1:01:41

it to happen oh

1:01:43

my god here's

1:01:45

the other thing you know he's getting this like so he's that they

1:01:47

made him with a click

1:01:50

clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk for every

1:01:52

trip and with a stranger danger and with

1:01:55

a Mary White House who's like a champion

1:01:57

of censorship yeah the wholesome

1:01:59

family

1:01:59

entertainment award. What's

1:02:02

happening there is like the establishment

1:02:04

is rounding around him and protecting

1:02:07

him,

1:02:08

whether deliberately or not at the time,

1:02:10

but it just meant that he was given the seal

1:02:12

of approval that meant anyone who did have

1:02:14

the guts or the evidence to come forward,

1:02:17

what, the person who's just won an award for family?

1:02:19

Like every time he was endorsed

1:02:22

by the industry or power, you

1:02:25

know, whether that's celebrities, the actual government,

1:02:27

the police, it made it easier

1:02:30

and easier for him to get away with more extreme

1:02:32

things. And it meant that the burden of

1:02:34

proof on the victims was higher every

1:02:36

time. And the longer he's around and every

1:02:38

pound he raises for charity, this is

1:02:40

why it's such an impossible situation that

1:02:43

I bet you

1:02:44

fucking hundreds of people

1:02:46

said,

1:02:47

I think he did something

1:02:49

or he did something and they would have been

1:02:51

ignored because he was too

1:02:53

big to topple. He was too big

1:02:56

to topple. I like that too. I like that topple.

1:02:59

Don't think I've ever said that word. I really enjoyed

1:03:01

it. And so as well as, you

1:03:03

know, all these accolades he's get in and

1:03:06

you sort of industry praise,

1:03:09

we know we raised 40 million quid for charity.

1:03:11

It was very passionate about Stoke Mandeville Hospital,

1:03:14

the spinal unit. He says it's because

1:03:16

of his spinal injury and the imbalance. What

1:03:18

do we think? I think it's because a lot of the patients were immobile.

1:03:21

Yeah. That allowed him to abuse them more frequently

1:03:24

and freely. Yeah. He also volunteered

1:03:26

at Leeds General Infirmary Mortuary,

1:03:29

which we'll get to later on. And Broadmoor,

1:03:32

the secure hospital,

1:03:35

high security hospital, which included inmates

1:03:37

such as Peter Sutcliffe and Ronny Craig. In 1988,

1:03:40

Edwina Currie

1:03:42

appointed him junior health minister

1:03:45

and she gave him the keys to Broadmoor,

1:03:47

a house on site and access to the patients. Which

1:03:50

is fucking insane for some other medical

1:03:52

training. Who is gonna believe

1:03:55

a child that comes forward and says, he

1:03:57

did this to me, nobody. A guy who's raised

1:03:59

my life. millions for charity is on

1:04:01

the television every night and then some

1:04:04

kid especially from a poor background says he's

1:04:06

done this they would have been

1:04:09

told off. We'll get to some of the stories about

1:04:11

the hospitals and mortuaries. Yes

1:04:14

mortuaries it's that bad oh my

1:04:16

god it's making me feel a bit ill. He also was

1:04:18

a regular visitor to uh who

1:04:21

are you waving at? They're watching it. Fucking the

1:04:24

third time still haven't seen them. Also

1:04:27

a doctor's wave opened their mouth as well. Regular

1:04:31

visitor to Duncroft girls school now

1:04:33

this was a school for vulnerable

1:04:36

intelligent girls. Now

1:04:38

these girls would

1:04:39

be I'd say rebellious girls

1:04:42

and there was probably emotional

1:04:44

problems perhaps. They

1:04:46

would what? Difficult histories perhaps.

1:04:49

If it was modern they would probably be a combination

1:04:52

of like looked after children as in

1:04:54

probably fostered within their own family and or

1:04:57

under cams you know the

1:05:00

child like mental health services. They

1:05:02

were just they were young girls with really complex

1:05:04

needs. Yes. But the whole point was they've

1:05:06

got fucking loads of potential. Yes now

1:05:10

he would visit

1:05:12

the school and he

1:05:14

would take the girls out on day

1:05:16

trips and on studio visits. He'd

1:05:19

give them cigarettes. The woman who ran

1:05:21

the school

1:05:22

a journalist is it Marion

1:05:24

what's his name the chap that's done

1:05:27

who did a big expose. Oh yes

1:05:30

his aunt ran the school. That was it yeah and

1:05:32

she was very sort of bowled over he thinks

1:05:34

by his celebrity and you know oh it's Jimmy

1:05:37

you know all the rest of it. But

1:05:40

he and his family thought he was peculiar

1:05:43

and didn't think that he should be there. So

1:05:45

if a young man a young

1:05:48

child of an age

1:05:50

where he's like this is a bit weird he found

1:05:52

it bizarre that he was allowed such free reign.

1:05:55

In 1994 two previous

1:05:58

Duncroft residents approached the door. Daily

1:06:00

Mirror with a story about Jimmy Savile's

1:06:02

abuse there. The paper was

1:06:04

like, yeah, we believe this story, we

1:06:07

wanna run this story, but then at the very last minute,

1:06:09

they were like, we can't run this because of libel, because

1:06:11

he actually, Jimmy Savile sued people

1:06:13

for saying that he had abused them in his

1:06:16

lifetime. I heard that when it all came

1:06:18

out, that every newspaper had

1:06:20

a file three inches thick on Jimmy

1:06:22

Savile, but they were like, you gotta wait till

1:06:25

he dies, because he's too litigious.

1:06:27

Do you know what, I would

1:06:29

say now, if somebody has

1:06:32

ever got that knowledge on somebody, and the

1:06:34

evidence to run something, when

1:06:36

someone's doing something that's so awful,

1:06:39

just fucking do it. I don't think

1:06:41

so, because the case, there's

1:06:43

a couple of comedy ones, right? Because

1:06:46

papers

1:06:47

got no money, except the Daily Mail, who

1:06:50

aren't gonna run anything on those people anyway. They'll

1:06:53

get sued into oblivion. Also the fact that

1:06:55

the victims will have their lives ruined. True,

1:06:57

yeah. The victims who speak up, and if it gets

1:07:00

disproved, they won't go, there wasn't

1:07:02

enough evidence, because the burden of evidence

1:07:04

is so high with sexual assault, all that

1:07:06

kind of thing, will be like, those people are liars.

1:07:09

You just get so tired of open secrets. Yeah.

1:07:14

You're tired of it. You,

1:07:16

how do we know about things?

1:07:21

Why do we know about things that

1:07:23

we can't do anything about? How are

1:07:25

these open secrets, after

1:07:27

this, allowed to carry on? This

1:07:30

is what I can never get my head on. How

1:07:32

what? How much can I talk about this?

1:07:35

Probably none.

1:07:36

Let's not try. Yeah. Ooh. Sound

1:07:41

effect shredding my career. That was your notes

1:07:43

being shredded there. How much can I talk about

1:07:45

this? But,

1:07:47

what I will say, here's the other thing,

1:07:49

powerful friendships that you had. Huge

1:07:53

friends with Margaret Thatcher. Massive.

1:07:56

Huge. Went for Christmas dinner at Checkers for the fucking

1:07:59

hell. than that. No. That's

1:08:01

like a dinner, you know, it's like pick your ideal dinner party.

1:08:03

This is the one from Hell. Margaret

1:08:05

Thatcher, Jimmy Saville. Stephen Fry. You

1:08:08

pick Adolf

1:08:11

Hitler for

1:08:13

some light relief. I'm a

1:08:15

Cillip banger.

1:08:18

What's his name? Barry Scott. I

1:08:20

don't, I listen. Stephen Fry, Barry Scott,

1:08:22

I don't mean any of that. So, Prince

1:08:25

Charles, friends with Prince Charles. When Prince

1:08:27

Charles was married to Princess Diana, for

1:08:29

some reason they decided

1:08:31

to ask confirmed bachelor Jimmy

1:08:34

Saville for marriage advice. I say,

1:08:36

I say

1:08:37

he did, Prince Charles did. I'll

1:08:40

be honest, I don't think Princess

1:08:42

Diana got good vibes off him. No.

1:08:45

I would hope she's a better judge of character than

1:08:47

that, but maybe not. But he was also like just

1:08:50

a huge part of the establishment. So you, you

1:08:52

know, it would have been impossible to avoid him because

1:08:54

part of your, you know, to be a HRH,

1:08:57

you'd go and open the hospitals and you know, it's

1:08:59

a wing he's paid for. It would have been impossible not

1:09:01

to encounter him. It's

1:09:03

so weird as well. Because when we're talking about this, it's

1:09:05

so hard not to veer over

1:09:07

into something that sounds like a conspiracy theory, isn't

1:09:10

it? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So this is

1:09:12

the thing that when you should tell the story

1:09:14

about his cousin, which, which if you

1:09:15

didn't, if you didn't hear it on a documentary

1:09:17

that his, sorry, his nephew that was telling

1:09:19

the story, if you hadn't heard the person

1:09:22

tell the story on a documentary,

1:09:24

a legit documentary, you

1:09:27

would think this is something that you'd got off a four

1:09:29

room. Yeah. So this

1:09:31

is a very, very strange and unsavory incident.

1:09:34

Jimmy Savile's nephew guy

1:09:36

went to London when he was aged 15. He

1:09:38

thought, oh, go for a bit of an adventure. Him and

1:09:40

two mates, wasn't it? Him and two mates, they're like, oh,

1:09:42

we're going to leave. Leeds, we're going to go to London. Right?

1:09:45

Now they arrive at Houston station and they

1:09:47

are approached by two men and these two, he talks

1:09:49

to these two men, the two men invite them to,

1:09:51

to their house. Now

1:09:55

they went, I don't know why. Well,

1:09:57

I think they think it's kind of cool that they go to London

1:09:59

and these. grown-ups are like and they

1:10:01

weren't old men they were younger boys

1:10:04

which is will become apparent later

1:10:07

and that these cool boys are like oh listen we

1:10:09

can hang out at their house. Does

1:10:11

that happen every time you say cool boys? It does, it's

1:10:13

my cool boy alarm. Uh

1:10:16

oh. Ding ding. Do

1:10:20

you know that's just really made me laugh because

1:10:23

that's like something your partner would really think

1:10:25

of. I don't know what, that's merely a joke that

1:10:27

he would amaze. I think as I was saying I

1:10:29

was

1:10:29

like that's the kind of thing he would say. Uh oh,

1:10:32

cool boy alarm. Isn't that something

1:10:34

you would say? I haven't even been with him

1:10:36

this week. That is exactly, that's,

1:10:40

that's textbook him. Love

1:10:42

it. So they approached

1:10:44

by these two younger, well older boys. Now

1:10:47

they take them to their house.

1:10:49

They end up staying at this house for a while. Weeks.

1:10:52

Yeah. So people would arrive

1:10:55

at this house

1:10:56

and take, there was other children

1:10:58

at the house. As, as young as four.

1:11:01

Yeah. And they would take these two into other locations.

1:11:03

Now a few days in at this day, at

1:11:06

this

1:11:07

awful place in my opinion,

1:11:11

he said he's sitting there and a door

1:11:13

opens and his uncle Jimmy

1:11:15

Savile comes in with a

1:11:17

vicar

1:11:18

and some kids. Now this sounds like

1:11:20

the set up. Now, knowing what we know, this sounds

1:11:22

like the set up to a joke. Yeah. A horrible

1:11:25

joke. John Ock, who's there? Jimmy Savile. A

1:11:27

vicar. With a vicar and some kids. Right.

1:11:30

Shut the door. Don't open

1:11:32

it. Lock the door.

1:11:34

So, is he his guy?

1:11:37

His nephew? Yeah. They

1:11:39

don't acknowledge each other. Jimmy Savile just

1:11:41

nods at it.

1:11:42

Now there was children there as young as four,

1:11:44

you said, didn't you? Mm-hmm. They had

1:11:46

parties at this house that lasted for days

1:11:49

and apparently men would arrive and, oh,

1:11:51

that's his growths, and take children into the room.

1:11:55

Now, Guy and his friends were being groomed

1:11:57

to go and pick up other kids from the stadium.

1:11:59

Yeah.

1:11:59

they would do is that it was a weird almost

1:12:02

like Oliver that you would have this this

1:12:04

awful dodger type characters that would recruit younger

1:12:06

kids but what happened is they weren't really

1:12:09

interested in these sort of tween age

1:12:11

lads they were interested in the young kids they could get

1:12:14

and then the young kids were abused and it was basically

1:12:16

a base for a very organised paedophile

1:12:19

ring. It's disgusting and it do you know

1:12:21

what it is this is the kind of thing that

1:12:23

when you say this it feels

1:12:26

like it's not true and it feels

1:12:28

like it couldn't happen yeah

1:12:30

mainly because all the men I know can't organise fucking

1:12:32

anything and yet when it comes to a secret

1:12:34

paedophile ring they're suddenly the kings of adamant

1:12:37

ask them to put a fucking ask

1:12:39

them to remember when their you know nephew's

1:12:42

birthdays they've got no idea but find

1:12:44

him for a paedophile ring asking

1:12:46

when his nephew's birthday is he's got no idea

1:12:49

but getting to get his nephew the secret

1:12:51

address to meet a vicar absolutely

1:12:55

top notch that must have been so hard

1:12:57

for him because at first he was he saw him walking

1:13:00

and he said he saw his uncle walk in and

1:13:02

thought oh I'm gonna get bollocked he's come to

1:13:04

fetch me

1:13:05

he's found out I'm in London I'm gonna get told

1:13:07

off and dragged back home by the ear but

1:13:09

then he just sort of did that nod and then there was no interaction

1:13:12

because he thought

1:13:14

you know that he was he's basically gonna get told

1:13:16

off but Jimmy must Jimmy Sir

1:13:19

Jimmy sorry but Jimmy Savile must

1:13:21

have walked in. You've just irrespective

1:13:23

of OBE Sir Jimmy Savile Sir

1:13:25

Jimmy Savile OBE he must

1:13:28

have fucking

1:13:28

his ass must

1:13:31

have dropped out when he walked in so something he's related a witness

1:13:33

someone who could put him at that place and

1:13:36

you're so right this is so bonkers

1:13:38

when you say it out loud what are the chances

1:13:41

that these three kids from Leeds

1:13:43

would be able to get to London what are the chances that

1:13:45

they then get targeted by a grooming gang what

1:13:47

are the chances they go back to this flat and what are the chances

1:13:50

that a few days later fucking madness

1:13:53

it's madness maybe the chances are good because everywhere

1:13:55

that there's a flat with a beautiful ring in Jimmy Savile is

1:13:57

dropping by can you also

1:13:59

respect that not only did Jimmy Seville have a

1:14:02

knighthood from the Royal Family, he also

1:14:04

had a papal knighthood from

1:14:07

the Pope. Fucking

1:14:09

hell. As Anne Whiddecombe has

1:14:11

as well. Oh really? Do

1:14:14

you know what I won't get into on Whiddecombe? No

1:14:16

one does really. Do you

1:14:18

know what? I was actually gonna

1:14:20

say I hate that people focus on the fact that she's the

1:14:22

virgin and then

1:14:24

there you go straight in with that

1:14:27

very funny very quick joke to be fair

1:14:29

to you. So

1:14:33

this is horrible. I feel grim. It's really hot as hell. So I think

1:14:35

basically we should,

1:14:40

this

1:14:43

is sort of setting up his rise to

1:14:45

fame and then I think the next

1:14:47

bit we talk about his

1:14:50

crimes and how

1:14:53

his, we talked a little bit about the

1:14:55

celebrity but we can talk more about that and his relationship

1:14:57

to power and how he got away with them. Yes. Then

1:15:00

I think our third episode will be about his

1:15:02

death and the aftermath and then

1:15:04

possibly another episode about

1:15:06

what has happened since it's all come out

1:15:09

and if anything's changed

1:15:11

because I've got some theories on

1:15:14

that. There's some real Friday

1:15:16

feeling in this office. Do you know what? I actually, I crunched

1:15:21

it. I thought you said some kimchi.

1:15:24

Yeah, some

1:15:24

kimchi. I want to change. Do

1:15:28

you know what? I love

1:15:28

about, I always like coming to our

1:15:30

office. I love a diet coke, I have an apple,

1:15:33

I drive my phone. It's basically my sixth form in London

1:15:36

but I always love that very good vibes

1:15:38

in here. Very chill and

1:15:40

on Friday they're all a bit giddy and they usually have a

1:15:42

few beers which I think is lovely.

1:15:45

Good for them. I've still not had a beer either. Really?

1:15:49

Aren't you two more? I've had one alcoholic drink all

1:15:51

year and that was to celebrate the end of my tour. What

1:15:53

did you have? I had a red wine.

1:15:56

That's unusual. That's it. That's

1:15:59

all I had. with Jeanette,

1:16:01

my agent, who walked past before I waved

1:16:03

her. That's all I had. I

1:16:06

noticed that someone just walked past behind me because your eyes followed

1:16:08

them, but you didn't wave.

1:16:10

Nah. Who was it?

1:16:14

So we'll, um... Hahaha! This

1:16:16

has been partly dealt with. That was a

1:16:18

joke. Oh, I still don't know who it is. This

1:16:21

is part one of episode 100,

1:16:23

looking at Jimmy Seville. Surely

1:16:26

you don't still call him Sir.

1:16:28

Your knighthood never leaves? No!

1:16:31

Nope. He's the Knight of the Realm. Still

1:16:33

the Knight of the Realm. Fuckin' hell. I

1:16:36

hope they don't come back from the dead like in Indiana Jones. You know,

1:16:38

the Knights at the end. I've never seen Indiana Jones. Oh, it's the best

1:16:40

film I've ever watched. I'm not interested. I actually

1:16:42

don't think they come back from the dead. But it

1:16:45

never leaves. You can't get it. The papal knighthood's

1:16:47

been redacted, isn't it?

1:16:49

No, he's been enhanced, actually. Yeah, yeah,

1:16:52

he's been top tier knott's now. He gets

1:16:54

to wear a special hat. He's the only man to

1:16:56

ever have two papal knighthoods.

1:16:59

We don't have papal knighthoods, but I

1:17:02

can't wait to talk about his death and his burial, because

1:17:04

there's one fact that I think about you

1:17:06

all the time that I'm obsessed with. Bizarrely.

1:17:09

I went and did some research on this, you know, in your

1:17:11

phone when it brings up memories and stuff. Yeah. A

1:17:14

proper picture of his grave. What is

1:17:16

this? Got to get in your

1:17:18

hobby, haven't you? Absolutely.

1:17:19

No, sorry, this has been part one of episode 100

1:17:22

of All Killer No Filla Podcast on Jimmy

1:17:24

Savile. Thank you so much for listening. Admin. Little

1:17:27

things to mention. Yeah. We have

1:17:30

a Patreon, if you'd like to... Oh,

1:17:32

yeah. ...ask a couple of quid in there. It's really helpful.

1:17:35

Basically, it covers our...we should make this clear because

1:17:37

someone emailed... I didn't realize someone emailed you and was like, I don't

1:17:39

get anything for this, but we don't want to put anything

1:17:41

behind a paywall. No. We're

1:17:44

very clear about it. Yeah. We think...we

1:17:46

don't want to release extra episodes to people

1:17:48

who've just got the money. Or every

1:17:50

bit of cash that you drop into

1:17:52

the Patreon is much appreciated,

1:17:55

and it just helps us keep the running of the podcast going. It

1:17:58

means that sometimes we just can say no to that.

1:17:59

gig that we don't want to do so we can record

1:18:02

or do some research. Which is why we've done more

1:18:04

episodes this year. Yeah, it helps us pay the hosting,

1:18:08

the hosting site, helps us pay the editor

1:18:10

that we have. So it's very very useful and

1:18:12

helpful and we appreciate every penny. My tour

1:18:15

from September is now on sale. Please

1:18:17

buy a ticket to that if you wish. I'm

1:18:20

doing a very short run at the Edinburgh Festival the last two

1:18:23

weeks and we're also gonna be up. It's not on sale

1:18:25

yet but I'm gonna announce it. So

1:18:27

August 24th All Killer No fell at

1:18:29

live.

1:18:29

Late night. Late night one again

1:18:32

which will be really fun. The last one was so good. Yeah.

1:18:34

So it'll be an 11 o'clock show

1:18:36

so heads up now that that show

1:18:38

will be online. We'll probably sell out on that day because

1:18:41

legends often come and see

1:18:43

both. Yeah. But it's not been announced

1:18:45

anywhere else yet. It's not on sale but it will be on sale soon.

1:18:47

We'll put it on our socials and we're

1:18:50

gonna hopefully do a Halloween show so yeah.

1:18:52

Excited. Things crossed in your

1:18:54

diary. Anything else we need to talk

1:18:56

about? I think that's it. I think that's it. Thanks

1:18:59

for listening. Thanks for listening. Bye.

1:19:21

you