0:00

Welcome to, let me just move

0:02

this cushion, welcome to episode 100 part 2 of

0:04

our Kill

0:19

and

0:26

O'Phillip podcast with me, Rachel Fairbairn and Kirra

0:28

Pritchard-McLean. Just before we start

0:30

we'll do our usual disclaimer. This isn't

0:32

hero worship, we do this podcast because

0:35

we have a mutual interest in serial killers

0:37

and as long as we are doing this podcast

0:39

it stops us from writing to them in prison. I

0:41

want to say firstly, we haven't spoken about this Rachel because

0:44

we've just chatted for about an hour before we start recording,

0:46

is I've had a huge amount

0:48

of response to this episode, have you? Yeah, there's

0:51

been some emails and stuff. And

0:53

it's been really funny because I was at the Macynlleth Comedy

0:55

Festival

0:55

this last weekend and people coming up to

0:58

me were like whispering, thanks so much for Jimmy

1:00

Savile or I'm saving Jimmy Savile

1:03

or I've just seen Jimmy Savile in my pocket.

1:08

It's a really sort of strange thing to

1:10

be talking about obviously but yeah, well

1:12

not

1:13

a risk but we were like, oh is this

1:15

the right thing but it seems like this is something that you've

1:17

wanted to hear us discuss and we've tried to do. This

1:19

episode is going to be research heavy kiddos

1:22

so strap in for that. But thanks

1:24

for messaging because it's so nice

1:27

when people message saying

1:29

they like it or appreciate it, it's a really lovely

1:31

thing.

1:32

Can I say something that I've noticed? Oh,

1:35

go on. So I've

1:37

noticed that women are very

1:40

like, oh thanks for doing this episode, it's really interesting. Whereas

1:42

men like to get in contact with a list of points.

1:46

Oh yeah, I actually said that and it was 1943. Yeah,

1:48

why are you so interested in Jimmy Savile you fucking

1:51

weirdo? I get

1:53

being interested in him and wanting to be

1:55

interested but why are you wanting to contact me with

1:57

information, with bullet points

1:59

and personal... stories and etc.

2:01

I find it quite, you know, oh I'm

2:04

studying big, why are you studying Jimmy Savile

2:06

in your own spare time? You

2:08

know? Oh really? Oh that's interesting.

2:12

Just men, just stop being weird. Just

2:14

be normal. I mean we are criticising

2:16

them for something that we literally do. No no no,

2:18

we do it but we don't contact people

2:20

privately to tell them about it. Yeah that's true,

2:22

that's true. We just put it

2:24

on a possible address. And also some people have sent quite nice

2:27

emails, we've had some nice emails in the old killer inbox

2:31

and so this isn't to the gentleman that sent us

2:33

an email by the way. He sent a very interesting

2:35

email which I will respond to very soon but

2:38

this is to do with you

2:40

know EDMs, your comments.

2:43

Okay I'll get you. Men make, I mean I'm

2:45

not, you know I love men and the rest of

2:48

it but they make it very difficult to enjoy the world.

2:52

You're really testing us. You make it very hard. But

2:55

no I've got people enjoying the episodes, thank you.

3:02

Well we nearly started off completely nice

3:05

then but it was just nice to

3:07

have a little points of view section isn't

3:09

it? It is but you

3:11

know it is with me though now and I mention this

3:14

to you because I've not drank since

3:16

New Years Eve and this is

3:18

coming from me. I'm noticing negativity

3:21

in people. Really Rachel?

3:24

I'm finding it hard to deal with some people.

3:27

So I mean I don't want to use the word

3:29

cull but

3:33

listen I'm like, I

3:36

very much pick your battles me at the moment and

3:38

very like why are you moaning about that or

3:40

why do you care what that person's doing? I

3:43

don't know what's happened to me. So

3:46

is it just that you're sober around

3:48

them drunk and they're disagreeable

3:50

or... No no no this isn't drunk

3:53

people this is just people in the world in general

3:55

every day. So what is I thought if

3:57

you weren't hungover you would find the world much...

3:59

easier place? No, what it does

4:02

is I feel now, I mean, bizarrely,

4:05

I'm more positive about things and I feel

4:08

more fulfilled as a person. Oh

4:11

wow. And sometimes,

4:15

I mean, we all like a bitch,

4:17

don't get me wrong, I love fucking slaying people

4:19

off and I love, obviously one of those knobheads done now,

4:22

he's a good screenshot for you, but

4:24

sometimes I'm more diplomatic

4:26

about it, I'm like, oh why

4:28

are you slagging that person off, come on.

4:30

Really? You know, yeah,

4:33

well, someone said to me about

4:36

a podcast the other week, they were like,

4:38

oh don't even know why they're bothering, it's like,

4:40

why does anyone bother to do anything? I

4:42

mean, if someone wants to do a podcast, that's

4:44

productive, let them do a fucking podcast,

4:47

where's your podcast, eh? Oh

4:49

totally, also I, like, no, when we

4:51

start, no one listen to us. And

4:53

yeah, I just feel that people

4:56

need to be a bit more,

4:58

just stop being sneering. That's the... I

5:00

also think it's, I think it's

5:02

more honourable to do a podcast because you're really interested

5:04

in something or you want to work with someone and

5:07

no one's listening but you keep in doing it because you

5:09

think it's a good idea than people who are like,

5:12

unless we're with, you know, like a

5:14

producer and a sort of podcast

5:16

network, we're not going to do it, is

5:19

like, oh, so yeah, so it has to be worth

5:21

your time in like really kind of

5:23

gross ways, even though you haven't proved yourself as a product,

5:26

I think that's a bit, that gives me the ick more

5:28

than people just doing it to six people who like listening

5:31

all the time. Well, it's like, exactly,

5:33

like, for example, if my

5:35

podcast girl guy didn't get another series,

5:38

I think I just, I think I was just going to make something

5:40

supernatural myself anyway, because I

5:42

want to talk about it and I want to hear people's

5:45

stories, do you know what I mean? And I, you know, like when you do an

5:47

Instagram live, I do it because

5:50

I want to do it. I don't

5:52

do it because I feel like

5:54

I should or whatever, I want to

5:57

engage and something, why does anyone do that?

6:00

Well, how does anyone do anything? Anyway,

6:02

this is the new me, is what I'm saying. Wow. Don't

6:05

get me wrong,

6:06

I still start all my WhatsApp messages

6:08

with can I be all full. But

6:11

there has been a definite shift in

6:14

the non-smoking, non-drinking Rachel

6:17

Fairburn. New year, new you. New

6:19

year, new me. I know it's me. I mean, I have had one

6:21

alcoholic drink, because I have said. Yes. But

6:24

you know what, I have no desire for it. I am. I'm

6:26

alive and I'm awake. I

6:28

sound like such a cunt. No, you sound like you

6:31

found religion, or

6:33

that you got anti-vax. I'm alive, I'm

6:35

awake, the muzzle is off. I

6:38

am very pro, listen, I'm very pro-vax.

6:42

Do you mean the hovers? Vaccinate me for everything.

6:46

You know, it seems ages ago

6:48

that we had our vaccinations, didn't it? I haven't had

6:50

a top up of you. No, I applied

6:52

and they said I didn't have to have one.

6:55

Oh, okay, fine. Because I didn't

6:57

have... Oh, because nothing underlying you. Nothing

7:00

underlying. So yeah, I didn't have

7:02

to have it. But I applied for

7:05

it, but I didn't get it.

7:09

This is like your revision tickets all over

7:11

again, isn't it? Oh, God. I

7:13

can't imagine. Do you know what, here we go, negativity.

7:16

Hi, personally, can

7:18

I imagine anything worse than watching your revision?

7:20

Really?

7:22

No, not my bag at all. Oh, I dunno.

7:24

I think the coming together of, one of the greatest

7:27

homosexual events that the world has ever created.

7:31

And Liverpool, that's two communities

7:33

that know how to have a fucking good time. I think it's

7:35

gonna be absolutely fantastic. I

7:38

will say, I do think it's a perfect city

7:40

to have it in. Oh my God, yes,

7:43

yeah. Glasgow or Liverpool. Yes.

7:45

You know, they're

7:48

the two. Maybe Newcastle. You know

7:50

you're gonna have a... Yeah,

7:52

Glasgow, Liverpool, Newcastle. You go to

7:54

those places, you know you're gonna have a good time. Yeah,

7:58

absolutely. Liverpool's

8:00

perfect. It's nice to see Liverpool get

8:02

something as well, you know, like a big event. Absolutely.

8:06

Yeah, they have a lot of football and that, but I think it's good to

8:08

see them. Look at this positivity. But also it's the first

8:11

time since Capital Culture, was it, 2006 they

8:13

had it? Yeah, I think

8:15

so. It's the first big thing since then,

8:17

since I saw Ringo play on the roof of

8:20

an art museum. And

8:22

then alienate the entire city two weeks later

8:24

on Jonathan Ross. But yeah,

8:27

I think it's, Liverpool is such a, it's

8:29

always been

8:29

a phenomenal city and it's, it's

8:33

just next level now. It's like,

8:36

it's still got its, cause it's got, you know, things

8:38

like Liverpool one, very glamorous. It's got all the museums,

8:40

all the galleries, all that kind of great stuff, but

8:43

also still feels like Liverpool. Whereas I think

8:45

some, Manchester, I think is on the

8:47

verge of having its Manchester scrubbed out

8:49

of it, you know, cause we don't. I'm

8:52

going to say this, look, I find

8:54

this quite upsetting. Obviously I go back to

8:56

Manchester quite often, and I see my family

8:58

and I'm finding it, it's

9:02

been ruined. Really? There's so

9:04

many things that are just not, it

9:07

feels homogenized. Yeah, yeah.

9:10

And I even find the graffiti in the Northern

9:12

quarter false, you

9:14

know, it's losing something. I

9:17

don't know what it is. And I hate

9:19

it. Everything's, everything's a flat

9:21

now.

9:22

Do you know what I mean? And I know it sounds like such an old woman,

9:24

but like Oldham Street, even

9:26

like, not even 10 years ago, you'd

9:29

walk up it and there'd be like the three pound shop in

9:31

that old apartment store. Yeah. And

9:33

now like that car park burnt down

9:35

and then it's flats now. And just even

9:37

like things like coffee pot, you're like, I wonder how long that'll

9:40

be there. And you know, it just, all the things

9:42

that you would go, I think all those great rice in three

9:44

places in the Northern quarter will end up going.

9:46

And you just

9:48

think, oh, one by one, everything that makes this place

9:50

a little bit cool and feel like it's

9:52

got its own sense of identity,

9:54

you

9:55

know. Well, that's exactly how I feel. I

9:57

feel that it's not.

9:59

I mean, it's very difficult.

10:03

I feel that if I ever, you

10:05

know, eventually if I ever moved

10:07

back there, I don't know if I could because it doesn't feel the same place

10:09

that I left. It's

10:13

so different and

10:16

I find it quite sad

10:18

in a lot of ways. It's just

10:20

so... I mean, they would turn Affleck's

10:22

Palace into flats if they could. Oh, 100% yeah. That's

10:25

why it's becoming... It's just becoming car parks

10:28

and flats. Yeah.

10:30

And it's really depressing. Yeah. But,

10:33

you know, I'm not allowed to say that anymore because I had to move

10:35

away because I wanted to get on

10:37

in comedy. You can't fucking

10:40

win. Yes, yes. They

10:42

never supported you while you were there and you were

10:45

bitter if you spoke up while you were there, but now you've moved away,

10:47

then you've lost touch and you've left your roots. So

10:49

you should shut up as well. Yeah, I can't win. The

10:51

bad thing is about... It's always people that

10:54

are not actually from Manchester that have

10:56

a fucking dig at me. No, really? Yeah,

10:58

and it's like you piss off you. What do you know? In

11:01

Manchester, the majority of my life, apart

11:03

from the four or five years I've lived in London, what

11:06

you should be asking, I always think, is when people

11:08

criticise me for living in London is,

11:11

well, why does somebody... Yeah.

11:13

Why does a working class man-keyingian have

11:15

to make the move to London to make...

11:18

to try and get on? Ask

11:20

that question. Anyway, we

11:24

moan. I tell you what, let's take the edge

11:26

off this. That's so funny because you said it like, you know, when people

11:28

go, we move as in like, we move on, we kick... But

11:30

you went, we moan. Yeah. Do

11:34

you know what? Get on, let's get some

11:36

t-shirts made up. We

11:38

moan. We moan. We

11:42

move. We moan. Right,

11:46

let's start. Now we've sorted out

11:48

Manchester. Let's get

11:51

to the meat of the conversation, which is Jimmy

11:53

Saville and his

11:54

frequent, persistent, and long-lasting,

11:57

a reign of terror. Reign

12:00

of Terror is horrible innit? So

12:02

obviously, Jimmy Savile, this

12:04

man spreads decades as well doesn't

12:06

it? Like he's been around

12:08

forever. He was very well known to

12:10

young people because during the 50s

12:12

he worked at the dance halls doing his DJing.

12:15

He had his radio shows on Radio Luxembourg,

12:18

he had a show on Radio 1, he presented the

12:20

first ever Top of the Pops in 1964. As

12:23

well as being at I say inverted comm as a professional

12:25

wrestler.

12:26

He's a cyclist, he was a marathon runner,

12:29

allegedly, and he was starting

12:31

to become a TV star. Now he spreads

12:33

decades because there's pictures of him with bloody Elvis.

12:36

I mean that is absolutely mad. He's

12:39

the um, he's

12:41

the Shirley Bassey of Peter Falls.

12:44

And it's just like a number one

12:46

hit in terms of his, how prolific

12:48

he is in every single decade for like five

12:50

decades. It's fucking wild. It's

12:53

mad! Which reminds me, I must tell

12:55

you this story. My

12:56

friend Phil Padgett, who's

12:59

a comedian who does some of my tour supports, lovely

13:01

lad, he had a picture

13:03

years ago on Facebook, his

13:05

profile picture, of him sitting next to Jimmy

13:07

Savile. What? Right?

13:09

Yeah. So then, about

13:12

six months ago, I saw

13:15

somebody with the same picture

13:17

and I sent it to him and I went, oh my God, this

13:19

person must have met Jimmy Savile on the same

13:22

day as you at the same time.

13:24

And he went, it's a fucking waxwork. I

13:29

was like, oh right. Oh

13:32

my God, I wonder where that wax works now. Do you know

13:34

what I think about all this? I mean, we've spoken about this before,

13:36

but like

13:38

the waxworks, the merch,

13:40

the, you know, the lookalikes,

13:42

there's a whole sub business as well

13:45

with someone as iconic as Jimmy

13:47

Savile. I'm not saying they're

13:49

the real victims, but you know, there's

13:51

certainly an unintended impact

13:54

that you don't think of. Like, do you know what I remember saying? I

13:56

can't remember, maybe it was a meme, but you

13:58

know, when Tom Daley came out.

13:59

and on

14:02

Amazon there was a key ring that was like Mrs. Tom Daley

14:05

that was down to like 50p but

14:09

you know all the like Jim will fix it for me all the

14:11

okay i'm gonna be a bit conspiracy theory here

14:13

and this isn't from any inside source and it's

14:16

not a lot of the people or most of the people

14:18

aren't so working there we're gonna be talking about Saville's

14:21

relationship with lots of really big institutions in

14:23

this episode we're gonna talk about Broadmoor we're gonna talk about Stoke

14:25

Mandeville i imagine at some point we'll talk

14:27

about the BBC although not this episode now

14:29

i think some of the reason why

14:32

it took so long for

14:34

the BBC to do anything because when

14:36

we talk about him sort of being caught out the

14:38

BBC had a heads up on it didn't they and

14:41

they they sort of knew and there was they

14:43

were potentially going to write in a programme it was ITV

14:45

who wrote the story in the end now i

14:48

think some of that there will have been a cost benefit

14:50

analysis some of it is embarrassment of like how did we

14:52

let that happen let's hide it for as long as we can and

14:54

some of it is like

14:56

you know that license merch of Jim will

14:58

fix it soap on a ropes or whatever that

15:01

were everywhere one Christmas that's

15:04

revenue for them and like the Jimmy

15:06

Saville brand the you know

15:08

the Jim will fix it stuff that's all represents

15:11

money going into the BBC

15:13

an institution that

15:15

you know for the last 20 years has been gradually

15:17

losing the money that it receives and where

15:19

it can get it from and so

15:21

i do think that not i'm defending it that sometimes

15:24

they go we can't afford to disgrace

15:27

this beloved person

15:30

and i would speculate that there were people probably

15:33

very high up in most organisations definitely

15:35

at the BBC

15:37

that represent part of their reputation

15:40

and that they as a result are not

15:42

being as forthcoming about their behaviour

15:44

as they should be

15:47

and also we're talking about how prominent

15:50

he was and he was on television he

15:52

had to he hosted obviously Jim will fix it which

15:54

did we explain what that was last time kids wrote

15:56

in and

15:57

yes i think we did yeah yeah yeah He

16:00

was on TV adverts for National Rail.

16:04

To be honest, they should just have him as the face of the rail network

16:06

now. I'd have been fucking icy on the cake,

16:09

wouldn't I? Saville's

16:11

Travels. Of

16:13

which, in Saville's Travels where it was a travel...

16:16

Fucking hell! Even then they were just giving

16:18

men travel shows. I'm

16:20

amazed the Duchess wasn't on it with him. Oh

16:23

God! Well, yeah, exactly. He

16:25

had a camper van for his Saville's

16:27

Travels. But what he did

16:29

with the camper van was, this is where

16:32

he'd just take women.

16:33

Women? I say women. Girls.

16:36

He'd take young girls into the park. Also,

16:38

he fly out with parking regulations.

16:41

He just parks it where he wanted. What? He did the

16:43

Stranger Danger book. Of

16:45

which,

16:46

you can still see, we mentioned this last time. Advising

16:49

children not to talk to strangers, because

16:51

strangers can be dangerous. But then the thing is

16:53

about Jimmy Saville, he wasn't a stranger to them, was he?

16:56

No. So he was basically saying, I'm not a danger.

16:59

Yikes. He did lots of charity fundraising, strap

17:01

him for this.

17:02

He often donated his fee when he was

17:05

asked to do some charity fundraising. But what

17:07

he asked for was a tent to

17:09

camping

17:10

and a tent full of girls to keep

17:12

him company overnight. I'm not making

17:14

this up.

17:15

This actually happened.

17:17

That is so... This happened. So his ride...

17:20

They let this happen. Was a tent full of girls. It's

17:22

disgusting and they let this happen. I

17:25

struggled to get a bottle of water backstage

17:28

at Summer Night All. Right.

17:30

I'm going to have a rant here about this. Now,

17:34

I'm by no means a diva, and

17:37

I understand that people

17:39

are busy. But how many times have

17:41

you got backstage now? It's like, can I just have a fucking glass of tap water?

17:44

Yeah. Yeah. Because I

17:46

am a human being, you know. Tea.

17:49

Even dogs have a bowl outside shops. Oh,

17:52

listen, if I was a performing dog, they'd

17:55

have everything there for me. Because this country,

17:57

we're fucking bum dogs.

17:59

You cannot get enough dogs in this wheelchair. And if Jimmy Sal will have been

18:02

bumming dogs, he'd have been brought to justice decades

18:04

earlier. Do you know what? He would. Are you saying?

18:06

If he could give a dog the side-eye, it'd

18:08

have been sacked. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

18:10

Ugh! So,

18:12

he, all this is happening.

18:14

The thing is, we say that he had celebrity friends,

18:16

right? I think it's different. I wouldn't

18:19

say he had celebrity friends. I think he's actual,

18:21

the people that he said were his friends. We're not celebrities,

18:24

they were powerful people. High up people,

18:26

people who have influence. So,

18:28

as if this story, as if this, well, this,

18:31

I say story, this, yeah, it's

18:33

a story, I guess. As if this couldn't get

18:35

any worse, Margaret Thatcher now comes into this.

18:38

The Prime Minister at the time, Margaret Thatcher,

18:41

loved Jimmy Savile. Couldn't

18:43

get enough of him, thought he was fantastic. He

18:45

spent Christmas at Chequers with her

18:48

and her family. There's actually

18:50

a clip on the Netflix documentary.

18:53

That kid who writes in and goes, Oh,

18:55

hello, Jim, can you fix it for me to

18:58

be a policewoman outside of 10 Downing

19:01

Street? What a shit-fucking-ask. And

19:04

of course... With the little brown nose? Yeah, little

19:06

brown nose. Oh, can you fix it for me

19:08

to be part of the establishment, please,

19:10

Jim? And then... Ha ha

19:12

ha ha ha ha! This little

19:14

cunt gets there and does this. And

19:17

the worst thing about

19:18

it is, Margaret

19:20

Thatcher gets out of a car, right?

19:24

And she's like, Oh, yeah, shall we close

19:26

the door now? And they go, and then

19:29

they knock on the door of 10 Downing Street. Fucking

19:31

Jimmy Savile opens it. Are you serious? It's

19:33

like,

19:33

what the hell is this? Who

19:36

is this kid who wants to hang out with these old bastards

19:39

as well? So fucking weird. Well,

19:41

I very much doubt it was a working-class child.

19:43

If your dream is to meet Thatcher,

19:46

then go with Jimmy Savile. Yeah, I do.

19:49

Hi, Jim, can you fix it for me to protect

19:52

the Prime Minister? I like the fact

19:54

that she's taking jobs off all the working-class

19:56

scumbags. Horrible little

19:59

shit. Anyway.

19:59

Poor kid with its brittle bones because

20:02

she's taking all the fucking milk off the kids So

20:09

he was like listen to this though friends with

20:11

the royal family Friends with Prince

20:14

Charles and Diana right?

20:16

I'll be honest with you though. Look say what

20:18

you want about Diana I don't think she probably

20:20

liked him And I just

20:23

don't think someone who would hang out with like Freddie Mercury

20:26

and Elton John is like Oh, yeah, and Jimmy

20:28

Savile like I just think yeah too much

20:30

good tasting the people she used to hang around with

20:32

I

20:33

Agree with that. I think she she

20:35

would have yeah thought it was a bit

20:38

We're I saw a thing where he's I think they're opening

20:40

a Stoke Mandeville and it's a little clip

20:42

where Charles and Diana In it mad

20:44

that he's our fucking king now and she's dead. That's

20:46

not the way round it should be He's

20:50

um,

20:51

oh my god the fucking pledge to allegiance shit

20:53

will talk about that Right don't don't

20:55

get me started on this cuz I'm gonna say something it I

20:58

think people are fucking hysterical about no one's making

21:00

you do No, it's just a thing that it says.

21:03

It's also just a head nod to being a more progressive,

21:05

you know, like whatever it is fucking

21:08

monarchy, which is a Oxymoron

21:12

but this is the thing, you know, I

21:14

cannot cope with people's hysteria all

21:17

the time getting fucking the knickers in

21:19

a twist about Fucking everything read what it

21:21

says. You don't have to do it. You have

21:23

to watch coronation You

21:25

don't have to like the role here. I have

21:27

to do any of these things stop being outraged

21:29

about fucking everything and just You

21:33

do you live your life.

21:34

I don't like the moniker. I'm not watching the

21:36

coronation I have no fucking interest in any of it,

21:38

right and that is how it is Well,

21:40

I would say to people who are like auntie. This is like

21:43

don't worry. This will be the last one Like

21:46

they're on their way out is the death now

21:48

that

21:49

they are on their way out But also I this

21:51

is nothing that I hate we should say the coronation

21:54

of the king is coming up this this weekend The

21:56

other flip side of this that I hate is

21:59

again

21:59

I don't like the Royal Family,

22:02

I have no interest in them, I don't

22:05

agree with the moniker. But then the

22:07

flip side of this is a lot of places are having street

22:09

parties and whatever, and yeah, that's

22:11

not my bag, but

22:13

a lot of people do. Yeah, and after the last

22:15

couple of years, fucking lovely that people get to

22:17

go out on the street and mix with their neighbours, and just anything

22:19

that's got any sense of community, any excuse

22:22

for that. I don't like football, but

22:24

when I see people getting excited about

22:26

whatever, lionesses,

22:29

how whales are doing in the football, I'm like, great,

22:32

I'm really glad that your group are having

22:34

a nice time.

22:35

Yes, exactly. And you know, for

22:37

example, where I live as well,

22:39

there's people from loads of different backgrounds

22:42

who live on the same street. I think there's a street

22:44

party here. Isn't that great that

22:46

there are people that want to,

22:48

will be coming out,

22:49

mixing together, having a chat, having a laugh,

22:52

having a bit of scram.

22:53

I think that's really nice. We should do that more

22:56

often, you know, but that

22:58

is the way it is. But yeah, people

23:00

get hysterical about the Pledge of Allegiance thing. It's like, it's

23:02

as if you want to, it doesn't say you've got to. We don't

23:04

stand in front of our fucking TVs and do

23:06

it while we get our heads cut off. How

23:09

did we get onto this? £10 million

23:14

and raise, how do you even do that

23:16

in five years? He's doing that sort of thing.

23:21

And then he could, Saviline, I enjoyed that. Thanks.

23:23

Saviline Shutham, he's in this, I'll say it quite natty

23:26

blue suit and like sky blue suit. And

23:28

he says to Diana, and it's quite a good joke,

23:30

he was like, he basically

23:32

says she wasn't meant to come that day,

23:34

but she turns up and he says, Oh, it

23:36

was a surprise to have Diana

23:39

here. And he was like, her royal harness puts us down here. And

23:42

he was like, he said something like, it's

23:45

the lengths that people will go to to get me to play a song

23:47

on Radio One. Pretty solid

23:49

joke, pretty nice, lot of business. And the way she,

23:52

I mean, she never looks particularly happy, right? In that era. The

23:55

way she looks at him, she's like, fuck off you old

23:57

fucking creep. Like the way she's like, ha ha

23:59

ha, you're not.

23:59

you creepy cunt. But bearing

24:02

a man she's married into the royal family,

24:04

I think she's used to navigating through... Imagine

24:06

the people you have to meet, he's probably one of the most normal

24:09

people

24:10

that she meets.

24:12

Yeah, and he's a cunt and he looks like he's got bad

24:14

breath. In

24:17

it classic, the one working class northerner

24:19

they come into contact with happens to be a nonsense

24:21

as bad breath. Well I've told you that's my theory

24:23

is why they sort of let them get away with it for so long as they just

24:25

thought that's what working class people were like. Oh

24:28

darling, have we got to Stoke

24:30

Mandeville yet? Because can I just say I'm so proud

24:32

of myself, I have sat through pretty

24:35

forensically reading two government reports

24:38

on Jimmy Savile and got the highlights

24:41

and lowlights and let me

24:42

tell you it's all lowlights. Okay,

24:44

well we'll get to Stoke Mandeville. Let me tell you

24:46

two more things about Charles and Diana. So

24:49

Diana actually, as you have said, went with him

24:51

to some hospital visits and

24:54

on one occasion Diana said to a patient who had

24:56

spinal injuries, what do you do

24:58

all day? I mean I imagine she was asking

25:00

in a kind way and not like, what do you do all

25:03

day?

25:05

What do you do all day fucking lying

25:08

here?

25:08

And stop swearing, don't

25:11

swear and look. Jimmy Savile said they

25:13

watch porn. What? All right,

25:15

Jimmy, you fucking weirdo.

25:18

He's so strange. He's

25:20

just bizarre. People refer to him

25:22

as Prince Charles's unofficial chief advisor

25:25

because he used to advise him on many things. It

25:27

discussed the marriage of Diana

25:30

and give him tips. This is a man who's never had a relationship

25:32

in his life. He used to correspond with

25:34

Diana as well and refer to her as my girl.

25:37

Whoa. And

25:40

I bet when she read the phrase my girl

25:42

from Jimmy Savile, she would hope that she was

25:45

stung to death by bees as well because that

25:47

is so fucking creepy. It's

25:51

horrible. It's just getting away with everything,

25:54

even speaking to people the way he speaks to them.

25:56

It was on This Is Your Life, the TV show

25:59

that was very popular here. Which you know is

26:01

what it is. It's this is your life people

26:04

would come on and chat Tell stories

26:06

about your life, you know And then you have to be surprised

26:08

that your sisters come on that you've just seen half an hour

26:10

before and

26:12

Guess who makes an appearance on the

26:14

he was on it twice Jimmy Savile guess who were We

26:17

funny if they did like this is your life and then

26:20

this is the life that nobody knows about This

26:23

is your life and this is your ex-wife who's got plenty

26:25

to say

26:26

and so Bill

26:29

Wyman the Rolling Stone who famously

26:31

had a relationship with the 14 year old girl Of

26:33

course, he was on it. Of course. He was saying

26:36

oh good for you Jimmy.

26:37

Of course he was on it So

26:40

he's doing his charity fundraising. He's

26:42

got girls in tents is

26:44

Raising money for stock mandeville spinal

26:46

unit

26:47

is working at Leeds general infirmary

26:49

where between 1962 and 2009 He

26:52

abused at least 60 people between

26:55

the ages of 5 and 75 Yes,

26:58

he was even allowed strap him for this bit.

27:01

I'm sorry if you're eating He

27:03

was allowed to give bed baths. Yeah

27:06

So I'm gonna start on the old Stoke

27:08

mandeville because there's lots to say I'm gonna

27:10

start with them They

27:13

don't have you'd all the victims and this must have

27:15

been a pretty full-on Investigation

27:17

for people to carry out because there was yeah 60 people

27:22

between I've got for Stoke mandeville between

27:24

the ages of 8 and 14 and

27:26

I'm gonna read some of that because the victims often get like

27:29

Sideline cuz a lot of them are anonymous or

27:31

you know didn't want to be defined by it like so many victims

27:33

So I'm gonna read some little bits This

27:36

is

27:36

really sad and I think this is really demonstrable

27:38

of how a lot of victims have felt this is victim 26 They're

27:41

all given sort of numbers and they

27:43

say as time has gone on I put it to the back of my

27:46

mind and anyway I thought it was only me

27:48

the more that I've learned the more unconscious thoughts

27:51

come out And I've started to feel should I have spoken

27:53

out should I have done this I feel

27:55

quite guilty Before I didn't feel

27:57

it. I was embarrassed and I felt ashamed and

27:59

all

27:59

these other things, but I didn't feel responsible

28:02

for other people. Somehow or over

28:04

the whole process I began to feel a little bit

28:06

responsible what's happened to other people. I

28:09

think that's incredibly sad in...

28:11

because I was saying to you I watched

28:13

the Louis Theroux documentary which I don't

28:15

know we might have another fucking episode on, but

28:18

what's really interesting is the kind

28:20

of staff and people

28:23

who are paid to be around him and

28:26

I think

28:27

who either didn't see, turned a blind

28:29

eye or inadvertently facilitated

28:32

the abuse are very quick to say

28:34

well we're all victims we were all being

28:36

manipulated by him and yet

28:38

the victims are all going

28:41

I could have done more I

28:43

feel bad that I did and it's so interesting

28:45

that that the people who weren't protecting

28:48

the people or weren't able to is the

28:50

most sympathetic take or but

28:52

weren't weren't protecting the people in

28:54

their charge that they could have or you

28:57

know or were around are going well in many

28:59

ways I'm a victim and yet the actual victims

29:01

are going I wish I had done something that

29:03

could have stopped him doing it to someone else it's so

29:05

sad

29:06

yeah it's horrible horrible situation

29:08

I'm gonna do one more quote

29:11

from victim 51 who

29:13

talks about Stoke Mandeville specifically and

29:15

this is part of the problem is when you have an

29:17

institution that is the force

29:19

for good like the NHS like

29:21

Stoke Mandeville like the BBC it's very

29:24

hard to criticize it

29:26

without crits criticize something

29:28

happening it within it without criticizing the whole thing

29:30

and damaging it so victim 51 says it

29:32

is a great hospital it's wonderful

29:34

in terms of rehab and its approach to spinal cord

29:36

injury is world-class still I believe

29:39

that was part of the issue if you like with a whole

29:41

Jimmy Savile thing because you knew how difficult

29:44

it was to get in there even then and you just

29:46

didn't really want to rock the boat it didn't

29:48

take long to realize how integrated for want

29:50

of a better word he was with everything he was omnipresent

29:53

so that is a victim who's also a judge

29:56

reading between the lines a member of staff as well so

29:58

that's some of the reason the staff It's like we

30:00

wanted to be there, we wanted to help this institution.

30:03

If you're suddenly speaking up going, there's

30:05

an incredibly rotten damaging thing at the core

30:07

of it, then what happens to the hospital and

30:09

all the good it's doing? So... Look,

30:11

we must stress as well that this man

30:14

has no

30:15

ability... No. ...or

30:17

knowledge of medical procedures.

30:19

No, not at all. In leads

30:22

infirmary as well. He was given access

30:24

to the mortuary. Oh, well, yeah, we've

30:26

got plenty to say on that. So we'll get to that

30:29

later on. So... He actually

30:31

watched operations. Fucking

30:34

hell. I'm sorry, but where

30:36

is the consent in that? I don't want fucking Jimmy Savile

30:38

watching me doing an oper... watching me being operated

30:40

on. I barely like it, but I do it because

30:42

for the greater good. When you go for like... And it's nearly always

30:45

a smear test, they go, we're gonna have some medical

30:47

students

30:47

if that's all right. And you can't be like,

30:49

no, I don't want people to learn. But also,

30:52

I don't want them to learn by staring down the barrel

30:54

of my fucking vulva. But

30:57

you can't like... Also, if anyone...

30:59

I live in a very small area, if anyone recognises me

31:02

and I'm suddenly prudish based on what I

31:04

fucking talk about on stage, you'll be like, I don't

31:06

want people to look about my funny. I'll just make a

31:08

living talking about it instead. So

31:10

we have to fucking say yes. No, I think that's

31:12

perfectly fine to say no.

31:14

No. No, I'm all

31:17

for... I'm

31:19

all for learning, but sometimes if you don't feel

31:21

comfortable, say no. Yeah. Say

31:24

no. That's good advice. That's good advice. Yeah.

31:27

So these offences on the 60 people

31:29

is everything from just... From just,

31:31

I don't want to minimise, inappropriate touching. Right

31:35

up to rape. Now, they

31:38

say in this report that lots of them show

31:40

a high level of premeditation. So

31:42

he would find someone and

31:45

then he would target them. Now, there's

31:47

a bit in the Louis Theroux

31:48

documentary, which is a good example

31:51

of that, where there's a poor woman on there who... who

31:54

got pregnant when she was quite young. And

31:56

then she got some bad sort of burns. So she's in

31:58

Stoke Mandeville. This is...

31:59

She's in Stoke Mandeville recovering

32:03

and she looks out the window and she sees someone jogging past

32:05

and all of a sudden they turn and look at her and

32:07

then start sprinting towards her and

32:09

climb through the open window. Now

32:12

her hands are bandaged because she's burnt her hands and

32:14

she can't get him. He walks over

32:16

to her and this is a common thing that all the victims say

32:18

is they use the phrase

32:21

sticks his tongue down my throat. So he used

32:23

to physically stick his tongue and the taste of cigars

32:26

and she said he pulled away, it's Jimmy Savile

32:29

by the way just in case this is like oh it was my dad. No

32:31

it's obviously Jimmy Savile and he starts

32:33

gabbling and going you've been an naughty girl

32:36

because she was you know she'd have a baby

32:37

at 16 so she said at

32:39

that point I realised he had had access to

32:41

my medical records. He wouldn't

32:43

have known that otherwise. Oh my god what is this

32:45

man doing? Who is letting this happen? Well

32:48

this is who. So between 1972 and 1985 there were

32:51

nine informal verbal reports about his behaviour at Stoke Mandeville.

32:56

There was one formal complaint from

32:59

a parent about his daughter and

33:01

in the end it was dropped by the father because

33:03

she was so incredibly ill. The

33:06

child they thought there

33:07

was no point in putting her through a trial

33:10

you know like giving statements so it was

33:12

dropped. Now the problem is with things like

33:14

this I mean I would argue

33:17

maybe this is before times I'm just thinking about

33:19

what I've worked with young people or vulnerable people in

33:21

the recent future is you're always told

33:24

to

33:25

speak up like say

33:27

if you're in any part of that kid's life whether you're a

33:29

drama teacher or a parent or

33:32

you know a friend of a parent is that like if

33:35

let's say there's 12 slices of the

33:37

pie in every kid's life there's

33:39

there's sort of six incidences that have happened that would tell you that you're not

33:41

going to be able to do that. That would tell you that

33:43

that kid was being abused and five

33:45

people go it's probably just nothing and don't

33:47

speak up then that's

33:50

how abuse is allowed to happen and I think

33:52

this all happened in a time where people

33:54

would go oh it's probably nothing whereas

33:57

now I hope that people

33:59

would be.

33:59

like it you better think

34:02

it could be something rather than it's probably nothing

34:05

and be wrong. Well then the other thing is it's like

34:07

there must have been that thing of like oh this is an official

34:10

place you know this is a hospital he

34:12

wouldn't he wouldn't be in here if he was doing

34:14

that. Well he f***ing would because

34:16

in 1969 he becomes a voluntary porter

34:19

not a thing. Now there were no checks

34:21

no supervision or monitoring so

34:24

they didn't check if he was qualified they never

34:26

checked to see what he was doing and no one

34:29

was just sort of across it or taking responsibility

34:31

for what he did. Now with this voluntary

34:34

porter job he got accommodation

34:36

and 24-7 access to Stoke Mandeville.

34:38

Now apparently from day one

34:41

he was a pain in the arse. This is the thing

34:43

I wasn't expecting is that actually

34:45

at Stoke Mandeville he was he was

34:48

a problem. He was a problem far more than

34:51

he was at Broadmoor so he was

34:53

disruptive he just immediately

34:56

there'd be loads of creepy innuendo

34:58

that would be aimed at specifically

34:59

junior staff.

35:02

So again that's someone who knows what

35:05

power he has what power they have and how

35:07

he can manipulate that and

35:10

it was dismissed all the time because they said

35:12

well he's just one of life's eccentrics and

35:14

maybe this is how celebrities behave. And

35:18

you know Rachel and

35:21

I we've we've been on pointless celebrities

35:25

and I have to say

35:26

cannon and bull. Good as gold. Yep

35:29

behave impeccably. Impeccably. This

35:31

is I just want just if there's anyone in any doubt

35:34

this is not how celebrities behave.

35:36

This is not what we got

35:38

from Angela Rippon or Judith

35:40

Chalmers. Was it Judith Chalmers? Gloria

35:43

Hanniford. Apologies yes. Another

35:46

stole up British broadcasting. It's not how anybody

35:48

behaves. It's insane that you

35:50

know he

35:51

is pissing around in Broadmoor when he should be

35:53

an inmate. He

35:55

should be in there. He's a dangerous

35:58

man.

35:59

as I said, he was like really creepy with

36:02

him, they didn't like him. And the senior

36:04

staff, when he was spoken about, they would explain

36:06

that he's an integral part of this hospital,

36:09

this facility. So- This

36:12

is Stoke Mandeville, yeah? Yeah, this is all on Stoke

36:14

Mandeville. Now, when this investigation,

36:17

this investigation that I was reading, I was reading the sort

36:19

of like findings of it. And

36:22

there's a really badly worded bit

36:24

where they said, listen, we have found out

36:26

that during this time, the senior management weren't

36:29

aware of his sexual offending, his

36:31

poor moral behavior. And they said, oh, his

36:34

unsatisfactory portering performance.

36:37

Oh my God. I don't think that's the fucking issue,

36:39

mate, is that he took too many

36:41

sig breaks.

36:42

Right, could I just say as well, if

36:46

out of all of these things, even if as

36:49

an inverted comes voluntary porter, his

36:51

portering was unsatisfactory, tell him

36:53

no then, if he's come in voluntarily

36:57

to do the job of porter and he

36:59

can't do it, why is he still

37:01

there? Yeah. Well, it's

37:03

because he makes himself completely vital.

37:06

And it's, I don't know how much of this is premeditated

37:08

or not, but in 1980, a

37:11

massive change happens at Stoke Mandeville. And basically

37:13

he gets appointed the lead national spinal

37:15

injury center. So it becomes this hub for

37:18

specializing

37:18

in, you know, treating and rehabilitation

37:21

of people's spinal injuries. Now he had no

37:23

previous experience of

37:25

managing a project like that. And yet

37:27

still

37:28

he was put in charge of it. And

37:31

there was no one above him. So there was no one monitoring

37:33

what he was up to, no one checking. Now

37:35

I have to say, Rachel, credit where

37:37

credit's due, he got it delivered on time

37:40

and on budget. Which

37:43

is a huge thing. Credit where credit's due. But you know, cause

37:45

it costs millions of pounds, but there

37:47

was also like no planning process. So

37:50

because there's no sort of, you know, consultation

37:52

and investigation, all this kind of stuff and that

37:55

happens is this Stoke Mandeville

37:57

spinal center, which he referred to as the biggest.

37:59

jewel in his crown. It was

38:02

not viable long term, it was way too expensive,

38:04

it wasn't correctly kitted out for this sort of

38:06

need, so it becomes more and

38:08

more of a problem because these two things

38:11

happen is number one,

38:13

it's fucking expensive and they need

38:15

him to be bringing in the money so they're more

38:18

reliant on Jimmy Savile after it's built than

38:21

ever before, they need his fundraising for like 20

38:23

years, which means he keeps power

38:26

in that way and because he becomes

38:28

more powerful and like we owe everything to this

38:30

man, it's even harder for victims

38:32

to come forward. But

38:34

in 1991 an NHS trust board was set up and

38:38

basically on the down low they said your job

38:41

is specifically removing Jimmy

38:43

Savile

38:43

from here because his behavior was

38:45

escalating, he was just like ruling the roost,

38:47

he was hard to deal with, staff

38:50

didn't like him but no one could speak out about him, there

38:52

was all these rumours, so they basically

38:54

put, what they did is squeeze them out so

38:56

they put more and more restrictions in place,

38:59

proper processes, stringent processes,

39:02

they also made it more robust

39:05

if you wanted to be a whistleblower, the NHS

39:07

specifically put loads of stuff in place and

39:10

they think this was because of Jimmy Savile,

39:12

because they wanted

39:13

to like, oh no no

39:15

this is just a thing that we're doing across the NHS but

39:17

like if you see something happening you have

39:19

to speak up and then the

39:21

Buckingham NHS

39:24

Trust which is obviously what Stoke Mandeville falls

39:26

under, went on a fairly aggressive

39:29

program of introducing safeguarding

39:32

training so like this is what's appropriate,

39:34

this is what we say if we see something happen but

39:36

all this was in response to the fact that they

39:38

knew this stuff was going on and this was the only way,

39:41

they basically made it so uncomfortable

39:43

for him. They're doing the classic thing

39:45

there, they're

39:46

doing the classic thing that I fucking hate of one

39:48

person's doing something so everyone's getting balloped,

39:51

yeah that's

39:53

exactly what they're doing, which is one of our real

39:56

hates in this world, get to

39:59

the bad apple.

39:59

They are just stressed as well. As we're recording

40:02

this, I've got everything here to make the sound as

40:04

good as possible. However, my neighbour for

40:06

some reason, or our neighbour, likes

40:08

to just come out of his house around this time every day and

40:10

just hammer nails into things. Oh

40:13

God, he does, doesn't he?

40:14

He's doing his thing.

40:16

Right, sure. So if you hear it,

40:18

and if that stops him taking another life,

40:20

then we must tolerate it. I'm

40:24

gonna talk about Broadmoor for a bit. This

40:26

is, I think this is even madder. I

40:29

can see he was Stoke Mandeville that basically the

40:31

place was in ruins, the roof is leaking,

40:33

they reach out to Jimmy Saville. He, I

40:35

think he did a power play as well, that he did this, they

40:38

said we need some money for a spinal injury. So he

40:40

said leave it with me. And then all these checks would arrive

40:42

to Jimmy Saville with all

40:44

these, it would go to Stoke Mandeville with his name on

40:47

it. I think he wanted to go, he could have

40:49

gone, oh, address it to the secretary, but he's like,

40:51

I want my name on it. It's all a flex.

40:53

It's all reminding everyone who's the the

40:56

paymaster. So I see how this happens and

40:58

then he's a, he's a ball late, but they can't get rid of him

41:00

because of it's expensive. Broadmoor is

41:02

fucking insane. It's absolutely insane.

41:05

We should say what Broadmoor is as well, shouldn't we?

41:07

Broadmoor is a secure

41:10

hospital

41:11

for the criminally insane,

41:13

mainly. I mean,

41:16

there's a lot of people in there with a lot

41:18

of issues, but for example, some of the high

41:20

profile inmates were,

41:23

uh, Ronny Cray was in there. Yeah. Charles

41:25

Bronson, Peter Sutcliffe. Peter

41:27

Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper was in there. James

41:30

Kelly, who was one of the Jack

41:32

the Ripper suspects was in there. Um,

41:35

we had Graham Young, the teacup poisoner. Oh,

41:38

okay. He was in Broadmoor. Yeah. And David Copeland,

41:40

the London nail bomber. I didn't realise, but Broadmoor

41:42

has been established since 1863 and

41:45

it used to be known as Broadmoor Criminal

41:48

Lunatic Asylum. So that gives you a shorthand of

41:50

what it sort of is. That gives you an idea. But

41:53

also there are a lot of people in there, a

41:55

lot of vulnerable people that

41:57

are getting treated. There's, um, you know,

42:00

A lot of vulnerable women are in there, as

42:02

we'll find out. So

42:04

yeah, it's a place with a lot

42:06

of people with a lot of

42:08

things that they need assistance with. Yeah,

42:12

this is really complicated because

42:14

this is, I think there's like four

42:16

things happening at the same time here, which allows

42:18

him to get away with it. Again, like a

42:21

bit like a serial killer is that it's

42:23

opportunism that's allowed to flourish because

42:25

of

42:26

some kind of outside force.

42:28

Do you know what I mean? Like some kind of chaotic

42:30

force. And in this case, the chaotic force is largely

42:33

the Tory party. But so

42:37

in 1968, he messages the hospital

42:40

and says, oh, you know, I'm really interested in what you do.

42:43

So reaches out to them and they were like, come on board,

42:45

buddy boy. And basically, for the

42:47

next three decades, he's inextricably

42:50

linked to Broadmoor. And as

42:52

you say, sadly, not as a patient. So

42:55

Dr. McGrath was the medical superintendent

42:57

at the time. So that's sort of as high up as you can get.

43:00

And he was like, you know, Jimmy

43:02

Saville is well known at this point. And he was like, you know what,

43:04

this guy might be really good because the

43:06

morale in the hospital is very low because

43:09

there's somewhere between health

43:10

care professionals and prison guards.

43:12

It's a very complicated, specialized

43:14

job that is also often chronically

43:17

underpaid. So he was like,

43:19

this will change the perception to the world about what

43:21

we are. And it will be a little morale boost

43:23

when a celebrity comes around the wards. So

43:26

the first thing they did is after

43:30

not very long, they give him keys to the

43:32

place. And they said, we're doing this as

43:34

a mark of high trust that we

43:37

knew that he was a good guy and he was, you

43:39

know, in our corner. So he was... One

43:42

of my first jobs at the Manchester Visitor

43:44

Information Centre, the Tourist Information Centre, nine

43:47

years I worked there. Could I get keys? Could I be a

43:49

key holder? No, I couldn't. I

43:51

couldn't even get the keys to a Tourist Information

43:54

Centre as a respected

43:56

employee. And now...

43:59

I hear Jimmy Savile gets the keys to brought. How do you think

44:02

that makes me feel? Again,

44:04

the real victim. So he was

44:06

allowed, these keys allowed him anywhere

44:09

within the secure perimeter. So he

44:11

had access to all the wards,

44:14

all the day rooms, and the patient's

44:17

bedrooms. Now, one of the really

44:19

dark things about this is, because it's keys

44:21

then, and it's like a literal key in a lock

44:23

that you turn, there

44:25

was often alternative entrances to the

44:28

women's wards. It

44:30

meant that because there was no, now you've got a keycard

44:32

and it tells you who's on that keycard, what they're

44:34

going in, what time and what door they go through next. And

44:36

there's probably security cameras. This is pre-order.

44:39

So it meant that he could use these alternative

44:41

entrances that no one else could see, access

44:44

from a different part of the building, go onto the women's

44:46

wards. He could get in there unsupervised.

44:48

No one would know he was there, how long he

44:50

was there for, what he was doing or when he left

44:52

again. So there's

44:55

sort of two things happening amongst the staff. And

44:57

this is in the actual report. And

45:00

I think it says so much. They refer to, there were a few

45:02

strong characters in

45:05

staff who fucking hated

45:08

him. And they had really strict procedures.

45:10

They're like, no, you're not going in there. Nope, you don't have access

45:12

to go in there. Nope, that's not part of it. And

45:15

they didn't like him and

45:17

they didn't trust him. So they wouldn't let

45:19

him go anywhere unsupervised. And as

45:21

a result,

45:23

he didn't go to those wards. Whereas

45:26

there are others who were like

45:28

quite charmed by the celebrity,

45:30

they found him likable. They were much more lenient.

45:32

And as a result, he would be at those wards all

45:35

the time because he would be left to his own devices.

45:37

So- Let me just say this point about the

45:40

hammering as well that my neighbour is doing. I

45:42

am so sorry. I understand it might

45:44

be annoying for this recording. I can only

45:46

do what I do.

45:47

And I please don't out there saying

45:49

that there's background noise. I'm in the quietest room

45:51

of the house. Hopefully it'll stop soon.

45:55

Oh, is this because people didn't like the sound?

45:58

Yeah, people complain about the sound on the free podcast. we

46:00

know adverts and I just can't take

46:02

any more. So

46:05

we must say as well now he was appointed

46:07

to a senior position at Broadmoor,

46:09

whatever this position is, by

46:12

a senior civil servant called Cliff Graham and

46:15

this was backed by

46:16

Edwina Curry who was then the health

46:18

minister. Oh can

46:21

I say a few little bits before we get into that

46:23

because that is unbelievably

46:25

fucked up how that happens. Yeah so they've

46:27

got very lax procedures at

46:30

Broadmoor because it's so

46:32

fucking old and specialised I get

46:34

how this stuff happens. So

46:37

they basically improved them incrementally

46:39

and this is how they got him out so from

46:42

basically between 1968 to 2004 they were really pushing to make

46:47

it formalised and I think some of this came from

46:49

people knowing what was going on and some of it is coincidence.

46:51

Now Jimmy Savile's keys were formally

46:53

withdrawn in 2009, they changed the security

46:57

and introduced key cards in 1998. Now in 2004 they had this massive

46:59

briefing on their new security

47:04

measures so they were like everyone who

47:06

works here will have to have you know like an enhanced

47:08

DBS they'll have to do this much

47:10

training and they hold this all he came along and

47:13

he never went back to Broadmoor ever again

47:15

after listening to that briefing. So

47:18

when they basically said we're going to make it impossible

47:21

to abuse our patients

47:23

not inmates, patients he stopped

47:26

coming. And he's like oh not for

47:28

me. Yeah because the problem was is

47:30

that this hospital the culture was very

47:32

they used the phrase closed and introspective

47:35

and so they were just like we do our own thing because they're

47:37

so specialist they're like yeah you might think it works

47:39

like that in your prison or in your hospital but we're

47:42

neither of those things and apparently

47:44

there was a really harsh culture

47:46

towards the inmates

47:48

or the patient rather the patients and

47:51

also staff there was a real culture of

47:54

you don't you don't snitch so

47:57

any staff members who tried to raise the alarm

47:59

button and think

47:59

that their other colleagues would be incredibly

48:02

hostile towards them, anyone who tried

48:04

to report things, so people didn't report things.

48:07

Now, he was described by, in the

48:09

report as being, this is what's fascinating to me,

48:11

Rachel, imagine you're a specialist

48:13

in this sort of

48:15

criminally unwell people, serial

48:17

killers, you know, multiple abusers,

48:20

and they say, there's a person who visited

48:22

here on a regular basis who

48:24

is charming, persuasive, grandiose,

48:27

narcissistic, arrogant, lacks empathy

48:29

and is manipulative,

48:31

you would assume it was an inmate and not a fucking

48:34

patron of the place. Why did no one

48:36

diagnose him? Fucking

48:38

hell.

48:39

To me, it's like

48:41

really obvious that he's a psychopath, right? Yeah,

48:44

he's a complete psychopath. I'd say a textbook

48:46

one.

48:46

Do you know, this is what really fucking

48:48

surprised me when I was looking into

48:50

Broadmoor. Do you know he didn't really ever give them any

48:53

money?

48:53

So... Oh, yeah, well, I mean... So

48:56

Stoke Mandeville, I assumed that the relationship

48:59

he had with Stoke Mandeville, that, you

49:01

know, they're really beholden to him and grateful because

49:03

of his fundraising, was what he had with

49:05

all the other NHSs. So apparently, he

49:07

only gave very small donations, and there would

49:09

be prizes and maybe a bit of equipment,

49:12

and so the staff liked them because they were sort of nice

49:14

perks. But the big draw

49:16

was the fact that he was a celebrity,

49:18

and he would get celebrities there

49:20

for the staff. There's obviously

49:23

a very

49:23

famous photo of Frank Bruno shaking

49:26

hands... With the Yorkshire Ripper. With the

49:28

Yorkshire Ripper, yeah. He's very

49:30

Frank Bruno. He didn't bloody know, did he? He

49:32

didn't know. Of course he didn't know. Everyone's having a go at

49:34

him. It's like, fucking lay off him. He was

49:37

just there to be like, oh, you know, I'm doing a nice

49:39

thing. He didn't know. So Savile

49:42

had been seen by people watching

49:44

vulnerable female patients having baths. Oh,

49:46

fucking, this is horrible. He gave

49:49

Rolf Harris a

49:50

tour of the place, and it said

49:53

that they watched female patients bathing.

49:55

Fucking hell. So

49:57

Rolf Harris... Another fucking...

49:59

thing we've got to explain. He's an Australian,

50:03

artist and singer

50:05

maybe. Presenter. Presenter.

50:08

Very much a prominent figure on television here.

50:11

Used to watch Rolf's Cartoon Club. Me

50:13

too. Loved that. You can join today. What?

50:15

Yay! So it was that you would basically,

50:18

he'd teach kids how to draw, right?

50:20

Yeah, he was very good at that. He used to love Rolf's Cartoon

50:22

Club. He had the wobble board and he

50:24

used to do... Yeah,

50:28

you make your own jokes there. How

50:30

do we explain? Rolf's very talented

50:33

artist painted the Queen.

50:35

That picture came down quickly. I

50:39

think Andrew took it. I would describe him also

50:41

as him. So he was implicated in the U-tree

50:43

investigations and he went to,

50:45

it was Preston Crown Court he was in, wasn't

50:48

it? So that was what was very weird. It was all happening next to the big

50:50

Tesco. So he went to Preston

50:53

Crown Court and he

50:55

was basically convicted of abusing two

50:58

young girls. And he is a

51:00

word that aren't, he's unrepentant.

51:04

Because he wrote a song

51:05

about how they were sort of liars

51:07

and gold diggers, bearing in mind these were eight-year-old girls

51:10

that he was abusing at the time. Or maybe that exact figure's

51:12

wrong, but they were minors

51:15

in quite a serious way. Children. Children,

51:17

exactly. That's the word for a children, yeah.

51:20

So he's bringing these celebrities around. I

51:23

mean, his fucking poor old Frank Bruno.

51:25

It just

51:28

seems like such a nice man and he's

51:30

going to be lumped into history with Jimmy Savile

51:32

and fucking Rolf Harris. Yeah, I don't

51:34

mind it. Now,

51:35

from day one, Jimmy,

51:37

this is such a funny phrase, Jimmy Savile's behaviour in this

51:40

report is described as flamboyantly

51:42

inappropriate. That

51:45

is a great show title. It's a fucking great,

51:47

I nearly, do you know what? Yeah, a flamboyantly inappropriate is such

51:51

a good show title. That is a brilliant

51:53

show title. Now what he would do is he would make comments,

51:55

he would touch people in a way that they didn't

51:58

like. He'd also have elaborate greasy,

51:59

things for people so we're like oh it comes right to

52:02

a flare but I need to have like sort of handshakes

52:04

and things you would do and you know what

52:06

I fucking hate people have different like greetings

52:09

for people like

52:10

get a job yeah just just

52:13

say hello although I do love it when

52:15

you know you watch those um

52:17

I'm I'm excited to see already how you're going to take

52:19

issue with what I'm going to say you know you see

52:21

those videos there's viral videos

52:24

where it'll be a teacher standing by

52:26

the door way to a classroom and there'll

52:28

be like three images on the wall one's

52:31

a one's a wave one's a high five

52:34

and one's a hug and they touch which one they want

52:36

yeah

52:36

maybe just maybe just bring

52:39

the class in say good morning class do

52:42

your job that is their job and also teaching

52:44

them about consent which is really valuable

52:46

oh fuck off do you know what tick

52:48

tock and videos filming just belong in

52:51

a classroom

52:52

stop making everything about

52:54

go to school teach the children well

52:56

actually yeah I would say that it's it's hard to push the idea

52:58

of consent when they are putting their image on the internet

53:00

exactly what have you asked the kids if they want to be filmed

53:04

just you know just do your job so

53:06

they they dismissed all this sort of elaborate

53:09

greeting stuff as the

53:11

phrase they use in this official port was this

53:14

it's just jimmy

53:16

and I don't know that that sort of it's

53:18

just so and so it's an excuse for so

53:21

much bad behavior in different people of like that's

53:23

just the way they are and be like yeah but that sort doesn't mean that

53:25

we should accept it but

53:28

yeah this is the worst example of that he

53:30

used to use broadmoor as his accommodation

53:32

because he had accommodation there and he parked his caravan

53:35

on there and apparently he had like

53:37

a a revolving door of women

53:39

that used to visit none of them in

53:42

this case were the patients but

53:44

it gave him a reputation for a promiscuous

53:46

lifestyle but because they weren't underage

53:49

no one was that bothered about it

53:51

and they didn't think that

53:54

his reputation was a bit of a like always he's

53:56

a bit of a man of mystery and a bit of a ladies

53:59

man so they thought

53:59

Well, you know what? That reputation isn't harming

54:02

the hospital. Everyone knows that about him. He's

54:04

just an eccentric. So they didn't

54:06

pull him up on it. So... I don't

54:08

think anybody knows the definition of eccentric

54:11

here. Yeah,

54:13

yeah, yeah. That's true. It's

54:15

someone with red trousers who juggles. It's not somebody

54:17

who fucks children. Yeah.

54:20

There's a difference. You know, have a look in

54:22

the dictionary.

54:23

Yeah.

54:24

I'd say Quentin Crisp was

54:26

an eccentric. Absolutely. You

54:28

know... A classic eccentric. Yeah.

54:30

I'd say Elton John is an eccentric. This doesn't

54:32

have to be a gay man. Grace and Perry.

54:35

Grace and Perry, yeah, exactly. Sue

54:37

Pollard. Oh my God. Sue Pollard

54:39

is the archetype of an eccentric. Oh my

54:42

God. I love her so much. Yeah. She's an eccentric.

54:45

Who else? What other women eccentrics

54:47

have we got? Oh, well I'd say anyone like Barbara

54:49

Cartland is probably an eccentric. Barbara

54:51

Cartland? Absolutely an eccentric, I would

54:54

say.

54:54

I would say maybe... I'd

54:56

say John Collins. I was going to say John Collins.

54:59

That's exactly who I was going to say. That was exactly who I was going

55:01

to say. Yeah. I'd very much say John Collins

55:03

was an eccentric. Jimmy Savile is not

55:05

an eccentric. He's a fucking

55:08

sex offending

55:11

weirder. So there were...

55:13

One of it was natural eccentric. It

55:16

was all put on. Yes. It

55:18

was all a costume. A show. It

55:20

was done for a reason. He's not an eccentric. Look

55:23

at me protect... I will protect

55:25

the eccentric. So there were ten allegations.

55:30

Lord Bath. He was an

55:32

eccentric. Anyway, carry on. There

55:34

were ten allegations principally built

55:37

around Broadmoor. And one allegation... So ten

55:39

allegations of assault and one allegation of indecent

55:41

exposure to a minor. So six of the allegations

55:44

were assaulting patients. One male, five

55:47

female. Two were staff and

55:49

two were minors. Now I don't know

55:51

how

55:52

kids were even on that site to be perfectly honest with

55:54

them. I thought that, you know, maybe...

55:59

Maybe it's, it could be visiting. Visiting,

56:02

yeah. That's what I thought. It's probably visiting

56:05

people. Because I did think why were children

56:07

there, but yeah, would you imagine they'd probably visiting

56:09

a patient? Now six out

56:11

of the 11 there

56:12

were like, yeah, we've done an

56:14

investigation, we've talked to them and we think on the

56:16

balance of probability those allegations are

56:19

founded. And the other five, they just

56:21

weren't able to talk to, whether they passed away or

56:23

wouldn't talk to them or they couldn't find out exactly

56:25

who they were. So I think

56:27

we're probably 11 for 11 on those crimes. Now

56:30

up until the late 1980s, this is unbelievably

56:32

fucked up outside of Savile. Women

56:35

who were at Broadmoor were made to strip completely

56:37

every time they got changed into their night dresses.

56:40

There's no need for that. You can keep your fucking knickers on

56:42

to do that. And to

56:45

have baths while staff watched.

56:48

Now Savile would have come along and watch at bath

56:50

times and he would often peer through doorways

56:54

and comment on the female

56:56

patient's body as well. They're in the bath and

56:58

chat to them. Now there

57:00

was no evidence that this was ever reported to

57:02

senior staff because

57:05

they say in this report that we would just

57:07

worry that it would make our lives worse for both the

57:09

patients and the staff. There was this

57:12

culture of not reporting

57:12

and he was so powerful that

57:15

he was the last person you were going to make a report against

57:18

anyway. Now there are pains

57:20

to say that there were fewer assaults compared

57:22

to other NHS facilities

57:24

that he was associated with, but

57:27

I'm not sure that's

57:28

bragging rights. Like actually

57:31

we're the place where Savile abused

57:33

the fewest people. So don't take that to

57:35

home with me. It's

57:37

not a brag. I think you'll find me with

57:39

the best of a bad luck. Yeah.

57:43

So I think you'll find I was the strongest

57:45

act on that week Bill. That's

57:48

it. Danny Mac uses

57:51

AFA about comedy lineups, which stands

57:53

for All Right for August because

57:55

everyone goes

57:58

to Edinburgh.

57:59

And they asked that, you're just picking

58:02

for a much smaller pool. She was like, yeah, it's

58:04

a real AFA bill, mate. That's

58:07

really funny. It's fucking hilarious. Classic

58:09

Danny Mac. So a big problem

58:11

that occurred here, which is again, is it

58:13

could only really happen in this place because

58:16

it was partially a prison and

58:18

partially a hospital. The culture

58:20

of it being a prison stopped

58:23

it progressing at the rate of the other places

58:25

would. So it meant

58:28

that it stayed more on a

58:29

custodial model than

58:32

a therapeutic model for ages. And

58:34

if you've got that, it's

58:36

screws and inmates

58:38

that people are less likely to speak up

58:40

about what's happening to them. They're

58:43

more likely to accept that that's just what happens.

58:46

Now

58:47

in 1988, things really ramp up again because

58:50

Cliff Graham takes over

58:52

and he's much more hands-on. And he's like,

58:54

I'm gonna sort out Broadmoor. So

58:57

he's at the time, the departments are

58:59

splitting into social care and health.

59:02

All the ministers are sort of floating around because

59:04

they haven't been given their jobs

59:05

yet. So it's a bit of a

59:07

chaotic time. So

59:09

Cliff Graham goes to Broadmoor

59:12

and on his very first visit, he

59:14

decides what Broadmoor needs is a task force

59:17

to sort it out. It's a problem, it's not

59:19

performing and it's not a great place

59:21

for anyone to get well or to be incarcerated.

59:24

So he's like, right, I'm gonna go to Broadmoor. So he goes to Broadmoor

59:26

on this first visit there, he meets

59:29

Jimmy Savile. And

59:31

he's got, very imagine he's got a task force to sort

59:33

this place out and Savile is fucking

59:35

running amok. He makes Jimmy

59:38

Savile the head of the fucking task

59:39

force. I give up, I give

59:41

up. I can't cope with this,

59:44

it's insane. It is, it's

59:46

wild. And it feels like no one's sort of

59:48

taking responsibility for it. So they

59:50

said, will you be a part of this task force? And he was like, oh, I absolutely

59:53

will. He says, I need to meet Mrs. Curry,

59:57

who's a Dweener Curry, who is the health

59:59

secretary.

59:59

They meet at another hospital

1:00:02

and he says, listen, I can tell you what's

1:00:04

going on with Broadmoor for a start, everyone's claiming

1:00:06

false overtime. People are

1:00:08

staying in- Oh, you shit. Yeah, yeah,

1:00:10

he is, I touched his fucking Tory. People

1:00:13

are staying in the staff residences, they don't

1:00:15

actually, they're not entitled to them. And there's

1:00:17

all this sort of like money going missing

1:00:19

all over the building and because they were building

1:00:22

a part of it at the same time as well, which is another

1:00:25

stress and another form of chaos. He's like, money's

1:00:27

going missing. And he was like, if

1:00:29

you support me on this task force, I can get

1:00:32

rid of all this, I can make sure it goes away. And

1:00:34

he basically was like, he

1:00:36

was sort of using the unions. He

1:00:39

was said, I'll expose all this to the press if the

1:00:41

unions don't agree with what we're offering

1:00:43

them in terms of, because all the staff

1:00:45

were getting really, the prison officers basically association

1:00:48

were getting really pissed off about how the

1:00:50

staff were treated there, what they were paid, what they were

1:00:52

expected to do. And he was like, basically I can

1:00:54

union bust for you. What

1:00:57

a cunt. But Edwina Curry was like, fill

1:00:59

your boots.

1:00:59

Well, Edwina Curry, health

1:01:02

minister at the time, as we said, you know what she said

1:01:04

about him?

1:01:05

She backed this position, the

1:01:07

senior position for him. And she said at the time,

1:01:09

he is an amazing man and he has my full

1:01:11

confidence. Yikes.

1:01:15

I mean, I don't know if you mentioned this in the first episode,

1:01:17

but I don't, I don't write anything on Twitter

1:01:19

anymore because I'm sick of men. But

1:01:22

I

1:01:22

almost commented, the nursery strike, Edwina

1:01:25

Curry was sort of, did this tweet about

1:01:27

saying, oh, well these nurses

1:01:30

were on strike. These many appointments were missed.

1:01:32

This, that, neither blah, blah, blah. And I almost

1:01:34

quote tweeted it and put, you give Jimmy

1:01:36

Savile the keys to Broadmoor. Like,

1:01:40

how dare you criticize these people

1:01:42

who deserve more money and are fighting for it.

1:01:44

Yeah, absolutely wild, isn't

1:01:47

it? Fucking hell. So,

1:01:50

he's got everyone around

1:01:52

him. And this Cliff Graham is

1:01:54

like, he thinks he's one of the good eggs.

1:01:57

So, because they got rid of all the general

1:01:59

managers.

1:01:59

and Cliff Graham came in, they had sort of had

1:02:02

to get someone in, you know, they've got

1:02:04

this task force happening, but they've got not one running the place.

1:02:06

And Jimmy Savile's like, I know just the person. So this guy called

1:02:08

Alan Franny gets the job, even

1:02:10

though he's got no experience in

1:02:13

an incredibly difficult

1:02:15

job in a really difficult environment.

1:02:18

But he was a friend of one of

1:02:20

the people that Jimmy Savile went running with. Great.

1:02:23

Matt. I mean, fantastic.

1:02:27

Now he was basically given the job. It

1:02:29

was meant to be for just six weeks while

1:02:31

the task force sorted something out. But

1:02:34

then Savile started calling in the general manager.

1:02:36

And

1:02:37

this is before he was even

1:02:39

sort of hired. And

1:02:41

so it was just decided

1:02:43

that he, if he decided someone should be in charge,

1:02:46

it sort of happened. Now,

1:02:48

anything that happened there that was an

1:02:50

investigation, anything formal that happened

1:02:52

abroad more he was involved in. So

1:02:55

he'd either be on the task force or this

1:02:57

is the final way he was involved in it. It

1:03:00

was his final post, if you like. He

1:03:02

was the former chair of the hospital advisory

1:03:04

committee.

1:03:05

Wow.

1:03:06

Yes. Which is fucking mad. And he'd also

1:03:08

walk around the hospital telling everyone how important

1:03:11

he was and what his job was and how he could help them or how

1:03:13

he would get them in trouble. Now Alan

1:03:16

Franny is way out of his depth. So the fucking...

1:03:18

He tried his best, but

1:03:21

there's lots of resistance from the staff. There's

1:03:23

lots of hostility. There's problems, like you say, with the unions.

1:03:26

There's problems with the building. There's problems with everything.

1:03:29

The actual ministerial departments changing,

1:03:31

the government departments, the minister roles

1:03:34

changing. And there's loads of rumours

1:03:36

about

1:03:36

how he himself behaved

1:03:40

while he was in the hospital and outside of it. Oh,

1:03:42

God. And there were just rumours

1:03:45

spreading around about this Alan guy and it basically

1:03:47

damaged his reputation because no one

1:03:50

respected him. It doesn't say in the report what

1:03:53

they were, but it does say that they

1:03:55

were there and I don't know. So

1:03:59

there was a... one of the cases that they were

1:04:01

all worried about, weirdly wasn't Jimmy

1:04:03

Seville, was that a nurse was having a sexual

1:04:05

relationship with a female patient

1:04:07

and was fired for unprofessional conduct.

1:04:10

Can people just be professional? No.

1:04:13

Can people just do their job with

1:04:16

a modicum of, you know, decorum? I hate

1:04:18

it when I hear anything about a

1:04:20

prison officer having a relationship with a prisoner

1:04:22

because I think that's

1:04:24

as bad for me as a teacher and a pupil. It's

1:04:26

disgusting. The power imbalance is unbelievable.

1:04:29

It's a abuse of power, it's appalling. Yeah.

1:04:32

We saw people go on about, you know, oh,

1:04:34

was it so bad that Bill Clinton had an affair with Monica Lewinsky?

1:04:36

Well, yeah, because it was an abuse of power. Yes,

1:04:39

yes, absolutely. She was a fucking kid

1:04:41

at the time. Well, she was a grown woman

1:04:44

and she knew what she was doing, but the fact is, he

1:04:46

was the President of the United States of America. That

1:04:48

was an abuse of power. I think that,

1:04:50

well, yeah, also I just think that like, well,

1:04:53

she was in her 20s, wasn't she? Yeah, I mean,

1:04:55

I don't feel that she's...

1:04:56

I'm not, she's not a child, sorry. No, she

1:04:58

knew what she was doing. But I

1:05:01

think that my, I don't think I was making the best

1:05:03

decisions for the rest of my life when I was in my early

1:05:05

20s, put it that way. No, and the fact is

1:05:07

he was the person

1:05:09

where that shouldn't have happened. Yeah.

1:05:12

He should, you know, this is, it's like, oh, was it so bad? I think,

1:05:14

well, yeah, it's an abuse of power. Can we just have a

1:05:16

modicum of professionalism from the United

1:05:19

States President, please? I mean, that's

1:05:22

a title that's gone in the bin now, aren't it? It's

1:05:26

got even a fucking, I

1:05:28

think once Donald Trump got in there. Oh

1:05:30

yeah, no wants that. It's

1:05:32

like, oh God, I was going to say something that's

1:05:34

deeply unprofessional, but I won't.

1:05:37

No, go on. It's like,

1:05:39

it's like when... It

1:05:44

really is. Beat that name out. Yeah,

1:05:47

beat, beat all that out. I'll say that. Beat that

1:05:49

name out, but people who are listening

1:05:51

will know. In fact, they'll probably think it's one of two people. Yeah,

1:05:53

one of two people. Okay.

1:05:56

So this woman who was having a relationship with a patient,

1:05:58

which is unbelievably fucked up, she can't, she can't.

1:05:59

goes to appeal, they turn

1:06:02

it down and she goes, okay, I'm gonna do an industrial

1:06:04

tribunal case and I'm gonna tell

1:06:06

everyone what the fuck has been going on abroad more

1:06:09

and I'm gonna tell everyone what's been going on with

1:06:11

Alan Franny, with me, with other

1:06:13

members of staff. So he'd been up

1:06:15

to some fucking dodgy shit himself. So

1:06:18

then this tribunal case was withdrawn

1:06:21

and this is the exact quote from

1:06:23

this investigation. Remarkably

1:06:25

we haven't been able to find either any documentation

1:06:28

about it or anybody who can remember why

1:06:30

the case was dropped. It's possible

1:06:33

that the nurse decided to withdraw voluntarily without

1:06:35

compensation but we cannot exclude

1:06:37

the possibility that an irregular payment

1:06:39

was involved and this must be properly

1:06:41

investigated by responsible authorities. Essentially

1:06:44

we know she was paid off but we can't prove

1:06:47

it, that's just another thing that's come out

1:06:49

while investigating Jimmy Savile. Wow.

1:06:53

Yep. Wow. So

1:06:55

this was apparently quite

1:06:58

common, that it was tolerated

1:07:00

and it was kind of, this inappropriate behavior is tolerated,

1:07:02

that members of staff would have

1:07:05

sexual relationships with

1:07:08

the inmates was quite normal.

1:07:11

Just don't. And no

1:07:13

one reported it because the nurse that

1:07:15

we're talking about was a good friend of

1:07:17

Alan Franny, Alan Franny of course, who's

1:07:19

a good friend of Jimmy Savile. So

1:07:22

it was about who you knew and that

1:07:26

it was, basically the report

1:07:28

concludes by saying it was completely normal

1:07:31

for there to be massively inappropriate staff-patient

1:07:34

sexual relationships and anyone who tried to report

1:07:37

them was deemed to be the one in the wrong and

1:07:39

it was just how it went and

1:07:41

that there was nothing in place for them to report

1:07:43

to, there was nothing in place in terms of training

1:07:45

for safeguarding. Now they

1:07:48

say that there was nothing formal,

1:07:51

the problem with Savile and his behavior is there was, there

1:07:54

were no rules about how you

1:07:55

should behave so there was nothing formal they could

1:07:57

get him on so they couldn't go, you've been going in the

1:07:59

wrong direction.

1:07:59

women's things who are now revoking your rights

1:08:02

because there was no rule set out. So

1:08:04

basically any time he was sort of

1:08:06

punished or challenged would be

1:08:08

an individual going no no we

1:08:10

don't do that here that's not

1:08:13

how we practice those things or

1:08:15

by being told off by the fucking senior nurses who

1:08:17

are the only ones holding him to account

1:08:20

but there was nothing in writing

1:08:22

it was just a cultural thing which meant they were largely

1:08:25

unbacked up if he wasn't breaking

1:08:27

a specific rule. Now

1:08:29

the whole report is about will this happen again

1:08:31

could it happen again and they were like there's loads of policies

1:08:34

now and there's loads of procedures and best

1:08:36

practice

1:08:38

but they were like when it

1:08:40

comes to someone like Jimmy Savile there isn't any

1:08:42

document you can put in place to stop

1:08:44

people like that. You have to keep

1:08:46

monitoring them but because

1:08:48

of everything that was going on as you have to monitor

1:08:51

them but don't facilitate them well this is it

1:08:53

they say as long as you give someone keys to the ward

1:08:56

you cannot

1:08:57

you cannot stop it and as long as there's a culture

1:08:59

where you're watching inmates have a

1:09:01

bath you're not going to be

1:09:03

able to sort of stop him giving fucking

1:09:06

guided tours of the place where him and Rolf

1:09:08

Harris stop and watch a female patient

1:09:10

let's remember that's the word we're using patient

1:09:13

have a fucking bath. Also

1:09:16

can I just stress I can't imagine anything worse than taking

1:09:18

a tour of Broadmoor.

1:09:21

Yeah yeah oh do you want to come and see

1:09:23

um do you know actually

1:09:26

I don't yeah

1:09:27

where on earth would you want to do that? Well

1:09:29

can I give you the final of the summation

1:09:31

this is the final line of it please do we

1:09:34

believe the most the most effective

1:09:36

single measure to prevent any recurrence

1:09:39

is to ensure that nobody whether staff or visitor

1:09:41

is granted access to clinical areas except

1:09:44

for the close supervision no matter how well

1:09:46

meaning they appear to be or how famous

1:09:49

they are.

1:09:50

Okay but

1:09:52

isn't that mad that you have to be like

1:09:54

don't let someone in the fucking wards

1:09:56

just because they seem like they've got their heart

1:09:59

in the right place

1:09:59

or because you recognize them from the

1:10:02

telly. Well, exactly, yeah. Mad.

1:10:05

Yeah. Absolutely mad. So

1:10:08

that is- Oh, hello, Ant and Dec

1:10:10

here. Can we just have a quick look at the- The

1:10:13

operating theater, please. Can you tell us where

1:10:15

the kids are, the baths, please? We just wanna quick-

1:10:18

Can we just say we're not saying that Ant and Dec are pedophiles?

1:10:20

Yeah, totally not. But I'm just giving you the example

1:10:22

of how fucking weird that

1:10:24

would be. You've all got to up your Patreon donations

1:10:27

if we get fucking sued for saying Ant and Dec are nonsense.

1:10:30

Yeah, I'm not saying that. Oh, hello,

1:10:32

Alison Hammond here. Let's have

1:10:34

a look where do you store

1:10:36

the bodies? Just, yeah, come

1:10:39

in, Alison, no problem. Oh, God, well,

1:10:41

we're over an hour now, Rachel. So maybe

1:10:44

we do Leeds General Infirmary

1:10:46

and we do- What's the other one he was massively involved

1:10:48

in? Fucking-

1:10:50

Oh, there was a few. Oh, the BBC. Oh,

1:10:53

yeah, the BBC. I must say as well, something

1:10:56

that I forgot to mention. You know

1:10:58

when he asked to do charity events and I said that he asked

1:11:00

for a tent and some girls, one of the things

1:11:02

he often asked for as well when he donated his

1:11:04

fee was a trip round the local hospital. What?

1:11:07

Yeah, he'd ask for, oh, can you arrange a trip

1:11:10

at the local hospital for me?

1:11:13

Oh,

1:11:13

that's horrible. So

1:11:15

next episode, we'll discuss Leeds

1:11:18

General Infirmary. Oh, fucking

1:11:20

hell. A mortuary.

1:11:21

Yeah. Oh, God, it gets worse.

1:11:24

It's swear to God, if someone made this up, I'd be like,

1:11:26

you're having a laugh here. This is unbelievable.

1:11:30

It really is. It's like, you

1:11:32

know what it's like is, you know when you're like an edgelord

1:11:34

first comedian and you write your first set and you

1:11:36

just put any old shit in there? It's like someone's

1:11:38

doing that but with a story

1:11:41

or you know, like when you write those ghost

1:11:43

stories and you write a line and you fold it over and

1:11:45

you fold it over and you fold it over. And then you

1:11:47

read it out and they're like, and then you used to watch them in the

1:11:49

bath and then he used to make a jewelry

1:11:51

out of their full size. Yeah,

1:11:53

and then Rolf Harris was there. Oh

1:11:57

no, do you want to say, what's that story?

1:11:59

Is it the original?

1:11:59

The aristocrat. We're going to call it the... Oh,

1:12:02

the aristocrat. Yeah, the aristocrats. Yeah,

1:12:04

the aristocrats. Yes. It's

1:12:06

like that. How do you explain the aristocrats? That's it, isn't

1:12:08

it? How do you...

1:12:10

To people who don't know it, how do you explain

1:12:12

it, Rachel?

1:12:13

Oh, the aristocrats. It's a joke

1:12:15

that comedians... It's an American thing

1:12:18

more than British, I think. And it's

1:12:20

a joke that comedians tell, but they have to

1:12:22

make the joke as gross as possible.

1:12:24

So basically the premise is, it's an agent's

1:12:27

office, a family come in, there's two

1:12:29

kids, there's a mum and dad, there's grandparents. They

1:12:32

go into the office and they say, you need

1:12:35

to see our acts. I think you're really going to love it. And

1:12:37

then they do this act, but you have to make it as disgusting

1:12:39

as possible. So it would be like, the

1:12:41

dad starts

1:12:43

bombing the granddad and the granddad

1:12:45

starts, I don't know, eating his

1:12:48

own shit. It goes on

1:12:50

and on and on and you have to make it as disgusting as

1:12:52

awful. And then the agent goes, oh my God,

1:12:54

I love the acts. What's

1:12:58

it called? They say the aristocrats.

1:13:01

That's it. But

1:13:03

it's like the whole point is it's almost like a challenge

1:13:05

in how disgusting you have made and that is what

1:13:08

Jimmy Savile is.

1:13:09

Jimmy Savile is, it's like, this

1:13:12

would be the peak aristocrats. And

1:13:15

then he gets a job

1:13:17

in the mortuary

1:13:19

and then he starts messing with the

1:13:21

corpses and then he makes jewellery out

1:13:23

of people's glass eyes and then he gets

1:13:25

a job at...

1:13:27

Yeah.

1:13:28

Yeah. And what's it called? Jimmy Savile.

1:13:32

Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for all the wonderful feedback.

1:13:34

Thanks to everyone who donated to us, the Patreon. Just

1:13:37

a quick one on our merch. We've had an email about

1:13:39

stuff that's incredibly low

1:13:42

in stock. So we've got, I've got it up in front of

1:13:44

me. We've got three Legend and

1:13:46

Doubt it mugs left. They come in a set. There's

1:13:48

three of those left. There's oh,

1:13:50

five of the, you know, the limited edition

1:13:53

daggers that we did with Fizz Goes Pop. Love

1:13:56

those. And I think... Were mine

1:13:58

on

1:13:58

the rag? Oh my God.

1:13:59

Yeah, oh the earrings, there's even, oh well there's

1:14:02

like eight of those left. And

1:14:04

the All Killer logo, on the grey t-shirt there's

1:14:07

eight of those left. And there's only 21 dry-bumbing

1:14:09

tea towels left in the world. And

1:14:12

once we do that, we don't do any others. So

1:14:15

basically this is your last chance to get this stuff. Last

1:14:17

call for dry-bumbing tea towels. We're

1:14:20

gonna have to start laying them on a blanket

1:14:23

outside our live shows with Fruit of the Loom ones. I'll

1:14:25

say this, my tour is on sale, it's in September.

1:14:28

Lots of dates looking busy, Manchester,

1:14:29

Newcastle, Edinburgh, London, buy

1:14:32

tickets for that. I'll probably come in to near you,

1:14:34

I'm going to places I've never been before. I'm even

1:14:36

going to Lime Regis. So

1:14:39

do come, I'm going all over

1:14:41

the shop. So yeah, come

1:14:44

and watch. I've got a short

1:14:46

fringe show on sale. 15th

1:14:48

and 19th assault, I didn't want to know, they're not sold

1:14:51

out yet, but they're nearly sold out. And we're

1:14:53

also doing some live shows up there of a

1:14:55

fun show we did in Maconliffe, a sort

1:14:57

of game show called Hive Mind. They're

1:15:00

gonna be coming to the Pleasants on the

1:15:02

23rd, 25th, 26th, so

1:15:04

basically that last week, Hive Mind, 23rd, 25th, 26th,

1:15:06

24th, or Killarnerville

1:15:09

Alive. And come along to that. Oh yeah, we can say that

1:15:11

now. Yeah, I don't know if it's on sale yet,

1:15:13

but put it in your diary. It

1:15:14

should be on sale this week, next week. Great,

1:15:16

oh so by the time this is out anyway. Perfect. Yeah.

1:15:19

Thank you so much for listening, and we'll be back with more

1:15:22

horrific Jimmy Savol chat very

1:15:25

soon.

1:15:26

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:15:29

Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:15:32

Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:15:34

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:15:38

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:15:41

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:15:44

Bye. Bye.