2:00

It's like you don't have a celebrity. Yeah, but you

2:02

haven't had to like eat a penis Christmas

2:09

episode we can't start we can't Merry

2:11

Christmas. No, don't be showing everyone Felice

2:13

never that is that one? That's Spanish

2:15

Is it? Look at this one international

2:18

episode? Merry

2:20

crimbo Speaking

2:24

asshole, yeah, and so this is a

2:26

Christmas edition now. Occasionally we do a

2:29

mammoth Christmas edition that we try

2:31

and drop on the whole day But

2:33

we're doing we're doing a fun kind of quick

2:35

one and for time reasons We'll probably give you

2:37

a big multi-parter in the new year. And

2:40

this one is a We're

2:42

actually doing what? We

2:45

were gonna do for the Halloween show that you

2:47

did with the fun to have up to Stevenson

2:49

And I wasn't at the Halloween show cuz I

2:51

was busy watching my dad die before you send

2:54

a message And so

2:57

this is a dead dad episode and I'll

2:59

be honest every episode moving forward See

3:02

if we're gonna be too much Lizzie Borden. Yes,

3:04

we did do this as a live show wasn't

3:06

the same without you Of course and you were

3:08

very much missed But I

3:11

thought it'd be good to just do it. I'll

3:13

say yeah. Yeah, great as a bit of a

3:16

crimbo Crimbo romp. It's um, well, I mean we

3:18

I don't know that she did it. She

3:20

fucking did it I don't think she did it. So

3:22

I'm glad that we get to argue on camera. I

3:25

mean it's a very famous case this and sing

3:27

the song The Lizzie

3:30

Borden took an accent gave a mother

3:32

for two acts when she saw what she had done. She

3:34

gave her father for two won Make

3:37

it time. Yeah, it's really good and incorrect

3:40

information which we'll get to a bit later on there

3:43

He's very famous case in if you're into true

3:45

crime, you've probably heard about it. And

3:47

so basically Musical about

3:50

I did I got invited by a lovely

3:52

at Marry who got in contact through Twitter

3:54

who was in it She played the maid

3:57

and she invited me to fight both of us. You couldn't

3:59

go don't think I was working. And

4:02

I happened to be in Manchester at the time and I went along and

4:05

I had a great time. It's very good, Lizzie the Musical,

4:07

I've still got my tote bag that they

4:09

gave me. I'm still using a brilliant t-shirt. Listen, give

4:11

me a t-shirt and a tote bag, I'm after this.

4:14

Honest to God. We've got, do you know what, Legends

4:16

of Thought had had some lovely experiences. About

4:18

this time last year when we went to Madame Tussauds. We

4:20

did. Which is a lovely day. Yeah.

4:23

Got a picture of it. That was a great day. Yeah.

4:26

We've never shared that picture, have we? No, that was on my birthday last year.

4:28

We've never shared that picture. Yeah. What

4:30

else have we had? Oh, I've got

4:32

a card if you remember. More. That's what

4:35

we need. Yeah. We want more.

4:37

What is it when Noel Gallagher said, when he did that,

4:39

speaking of which, let me get to that in a minute.

4:42

Noel Gallagher was interviewed years ago when Oasis first became massive,

4:44

they asked him about stuff and he went, I've got a

4:46

million quin in the bank, I've got a stalker, I've got

4:48

this, I've got that and I'm happy. No, I'm not. I

4:51

want more. That's all. We want

4:53

more. No, so if you do work

4:55

for some kind of minor attraction, I would be a

4:57

king of that. The Lion King. The Lion King tickets,

4:59

again, you couldn't go. You fucking soover everything up. That's

5:01

the problem. We get offered stuff and you

5:03

go. Yeah, because you will not be

5:05

in London. No, that's true. That's true.

5:08

So, yeah. Anyway, so I'm

5:10

checking my watch now. I'm

5:12

going to see Noel Gallagher tonight. Do you

5:15

not get bored of seeing? No. I

5:17

was just saying I've not seen him since last time I saw him

5:19

was before Covid. Oh, really? Yeah,

5:21

divorced now. You're going to swoop in? No, I

5:23

don't. I don't want relationships with them. I

5:26

don't want relationships with them. I couldn't.

5:28

How could I go out with either

5:30

of them? Being, you know,

5:32

you couldn't listen to music anymore. You couldn't. I

5:35

don't want to be with them anyway. I

5:37

bet he plays his own music. So I think he'd be fine. Yeah,

5:40

but then it's gone then. I'd love to be

5:43

like in

5:45

the friendship group, but on the periphery. Right. Do

5:47

you know what I mean? That's what I'd like. Going

5:50

out with one of his mates from school, that kind

5:52

of thing. No, just being there because he liked me

5:54

comedy or something. Right. You know,

5:56

that kind of thing. I'm very excited and I hope I make

5:58

it. But I am at the mercy of trains. today.

6:01

Well enjoy crew because you're not getting any

6:03

further than that. Well yeah. You come

6:05

up to, so we're recording, we should say we're recording this

6:08

in my house in Wales so God love you for coming

6:10

all the way up. You came up yesterday in fact. I

6:12

did. Yeah because you said, can I say at your house

6:14

and I was like I'm not going to be there and

6:16

you're like I'm just scared I'm going to stay in the

6:18

chain. I went to a premiering and the the

6:24

check in, people

6:26

are just the worst aren't they? I mean

6:30

what we need to do is hello here's my name

6:32

here's the here's a key card for

6:35

you. There was a family in front of me. They

6:38

were here for someone's graduation. How did I know?

6:40

Because they kept telling everybody and

6:42

there was like a boy a man and

6:44

a woman sort of young, I don't know if

6:46

there were a couple I related who fucking knows

6:48

and a very loud German man who I couldn't

6:50

ascertain what his relationship to them was and the

6:52

mother who I would describe as a woman who's

6:55

used to getting her own way and

6:57

they were checking in but they were checking into a premiering

6:59

like they were checking into the door tester like

7:02

they were going oh yes and well in

7:04

the morning we'll need we'll need a taxi

7:06

and what we need to book

7:08

a table for dinner you need to book at

7:11

the table table like a drink. Just wander in.

7:13

A drink, a restaurant right. A table table right

7:15

which I did eat alone in last night. I

7:17

had gammon and egg and it was very nice

7:19

and then she was going in the

7:22

queue forming behind and she she's one of those people

7:24

that has to get the you know the name of

7:26

the receptionist. Stop being

7:28

controlling. She's saying to me I

7:30

won't give girls names. She's like yes and Claire how

7:33

would we and she sort of said yes and we

7:35

need to book could we book for um when

7:37

would you recommend that we book a table for? Never.

7:41

It's going to be microwaved whatever time you go in.

7:43

Yeah exactly. To be fair actually it was very fresh

7:45

and very good the gum and egg and chips it

7:47

was very good for a

7:49

chain. Anyway she's like oh yes and then she

7:51

sent eight o'clock the girl's going oh no but

7:53

I have to be at the graduation from around

7:55

that time. She went no darling not for the

7:57

graduation for dinner this evening. She's like oh. Thank

8:00

God, it's like fuck off.

8:03

Just the level of service that they

8:05

expected. Yeah, for £89 a night. But

8:08

what they were paying was... But

8:11

also that looking around when you can see there's a queue.

8:13

That is your queue to get out of the way, you

8:15

know? Anyway, that's that.

8:18

But what's it called? Britannia?

8:20

The table table Britannia? Yes, yeah, it

8:22

was. Gammon Egg and Chips was actually

8:24

very, very good. Live

8:27

truth advisor here on all the phones. I

8:29

also say in a hotel, not like before... You...

8:33

Well, I don't say in hotels very often, so it's

8:36

sort of a treat. But I'm just sort of... I'm

8:39

over it now. Like kicking the thing

8:41

that lies over the bed that they don't change. Kicking

8:43

that off because that's covered in jizz. Opening

8:45

the curtains with an elbow because that's covered in

8:47

jizz. Throwing the curtain

8:50

off... I know the cushion off... Yeah.

8:53

That's covered in jizz. Not being able to have something

8:57

from the kettle because that's been pissed in. Being scared

8:59

of the shower gel because that'll just become... I

9:02

was getting so wound up by being like...

9:05

about touching everything. And I thought the problem

9:07

here is... And I'm going,

9:09

people are disgusting, people are disgusting. It's not,

9:11

is it? It's men. Men are disgusting. There's

9:13

no woman squatting over

9:15

a kettle in a

9:17

Madison. No. Like it's only men

9:19

doing that. And you suggested

9:22

women only hotels. Yeah, I'd love that. Yeah. And I've

9:24

just read a book about one that was brilliant. It's

9:27

called The Barbizon, about the Barbizon Hotel in

9:29

New York. And I'm all for it.

9:31

But made a stressor. I do want women only

9:33

hotels but I don't want that to be an

9:35

excuse for women to try and make friends with

9:37

men. I just want the environment of women.

9:40

Do you know what you need? Have you ever seen a dog

9:42

and it's like... It's like,

9:45

don't pet me if it stresses me out. Oh my God, yes.

9:48

You need a jacket with that on. Yeah. I

9:51

was just talking to our producer about this. We were talking

9:53

about dogs. I wanted a dog for a while but I'm

9:55

just thinking... I've become obsessed with

9:57

this dog which is from... rescue

10:00

in London, it's called Micke and it's

10:02

a chihuahua, it's eight years old and it says

10:05

came to them after being abandoned. So as soon

10:07

as and it says please read in capital letters

10:09

right, so as soon as something says abandoned I

10:11

said to Tim I said it came to us

10:13

after being abandoned he went no it's a con

10:15

and he's so cute and it says although Micke

10:18

is cute he's rather temperamental and I'm like

10:21

I think I like this dog and

10:23

I'm reading and there's pictures of it and he looks so smug it's

10:25

like this and like that

10:28

and it says well picture it's got a lead

10:30

on that says in red do not pet, I'm

10:33

like I need this dog, I've actually emailed about it

10:35

but they've not got back to me yet. Are you

10:37

serious? Yeah I love him, I'm obsessed

10:39

with it, every day I'm checking him I'm hoping

10:41

that please Micke find a home.

10:43

Right, it's never finding a home.

10:45

Well that's what Tim keeps saying he said

10:48

that dog he said will attack somebody I'm

10:50

like yeah but he just needs the right

10:52

family. No it doesn't. It

10:54

needs to be. I

10:56

need that dog that would be perfect. Because

10:59

I'm giving it that and he's like I

11:01

love that poor little Micke, it

11:04

just needs a home for Christmas I might foster him. Okay

11:06

yeah I think you will immediately change your

11:09

mind. My grandma used to have chihuahuas and

11:11

they were horrible and would always attack me.

11:13

Really? Yeah they're just like yep. You know

11:16

the girls in between fights being like definitely

11:19

me Darren. That's what chihuahuas are like

11:21

they're just like you know into everything

11:23

and really sort of aggressive. Oh

11:25

poor Micke. Just abandon those.

11:28

Yeah but I mean sometimes you

11:30

know it's like finding out someone that you know

11:32

is a twat, their wife has left you're like

11:34

yeah yeah poor

11:37

Micke. No sorry and there'll

11:39

be messages now being like there's only you know no

11:41

such thing as bad dogs only bad owners. That's

11:44

not true. Yeah and that is not

11:46

true. Some dogs are assholes.

11:48

That is a fact right and they

11:50

can have good owners and they can

11:52

be well-minded but fundamentally they are assholes.

11:54

Absolutely. It's like you can't blame the

11:57

parents for everything. No. As

11:59

we know from doing it. Yes, speaking

12:01

of. Well, one thing I wanted to

12:03

talk about is the house that

12:05

all the murders happened in, there's two

12:08

murders, the boarded household,

12:11

Andrew and Abbe were murdered

12:13

there with an axe, as the lovely rhyme

12:15

said. It is a Lizzie

12:18

Borden themed B&B that you can

12:20

stay in. And

12:22

it's like everything is kind of set

12:24

up like it

12:26

was when the murders happened, to the point where Andrew

12:28

was killed and slumped on a sofa. They have the

12:30

sofa in the room in the same position and they

12:32

recreate the wallpaper and all that sort of thing. I

12:35

thought you were going to say they're like a wax

12:37

model of him on the sofa. I

12:39

think they've got the picture above it of him, very

12:41

visceral crime scene picture. Nice, lovely touch. Would

12:44

you stay somewhere like that? No,

12:46

probably not. I find it a bit...

12:49

For free? I don't

12:52

again, I don't know. I just... For television? Yeah,

12:55

for television. I can do out for TV

12:57

and bend around and get my hands all

12:59

out now. Would

13:03

you bend over and get your arsehole out on the sofa

13:05

that he was moving in? Yeah, absolutely. For Channel 5? Listen,

13:08

I'd do it for ITVX,

13:11

mate. No, I

13:13

would for everything. But also, I don't know, I'm a bit

13:15

weird about stuff like that. I always find it a bit

13:17

like... Yeah,

13:22

I bet. I think it's... Do

13:24

you know what I think

13:26

the main thing is? We're really lucky with what

13:28

we do that the people listening to our podcasts

13:30

are sound. But so many people I think who

13:32

are into true crime are annoying

13:35

and nutters. I know it's quite

13:38

a problematic term, but I'm in there now. And

13:40

I just think, when you go down and for

13:42

a start, the weird atmosphere and a B&B the

13:44

next day when you're having the breakfast is like,

13:46

oh, I need... And everyone's like, ASMR, everyone's like,

13:49

what are you doing?

13:51

And it's such a weird atmosphere and everyone's talking but

13:53

not talking to each other. Imagine that and knowing that

13:55

everyone in there is staying there because someone died there.

13:57

I just think it would be an absolute nightmare. Yeah,

14:00

also I don't like to talk about that and I hate anything

14:02

that is that has a level of

14:04

customer service beyond what is just minimal

14:07

like so I stayed in a bed

14:09

and breakfast in With

14:11

a Bristol bath recently very very nice And

14:14

in the morning Tim and I were having breakfast and

14:16

it was quite a busy breakfast room and that the

14:18

lovely owner You know wanted to talk it was like

14:20

say what are you here for? I'm just like I

14:23

can't I can feel myself going red because I get

14:25

quite anxious about that They're

14:27

flying in now just The

14:30

water coming I get quite embarrassed

14:34

It's a conversation like what small talk

14:37

you know if I don't know somebody I

14:40

I instantly I'm like That

14:42

shine is think yes. Yes, which I spoke about this in

14:44

the show actually But being shy and it is it all

14:46

comes back and I always feel about five years old and

14:48

I'm like oh god I don't want to talk at all. It's like sometimes I

14:50

even say to Tim now You do

14:52

the talking because I'm so anxious

14:54

in certain situations, but um Yeah,

14:57

and also I hate saying what I have to I

14:59

was like I'm a comedian I'm

15:01

just there for a couple of days just working

15:03

That's what yeah Because also sometimes they'll be really

15:06

obvious thing when you if you say you're a

15:08

comedian or they know you're a comedian And they'll

15:10

go one so what's your name then all like

15:12

you know and I just say it's Kerry But

15:15

cuz I'm the I think I'm the only comedian

15:17

called Kerry and then they'll go

15:19

away Let's say to get your scrambled eggs,

15:21

and you can tell when they've come back.

15:23

They've YouTube to yeah Yeah, the air is completely

15:25

different. It's such a weird thing when

15:27

they're like Well, I don't know

15:29

what you've just seen so I don't know what this atmosphere.

15:32

So I told you today I was

15:34

going to the hospital for a procedure

15:36

the other day an investigation and

15:40

in the Ganylogical department and I

15:42

find him Or

15:45

just a watch drop Anyway It's

15:50

obviously not very pleasant experience, and you just know

15:52

this is horrible, but then the guy Also,

15:55

man, please stop being gynecologist. I find it weird don't doctor

16:02

study the balls very professional man very lovely nurse

16:04

and then they asked me

16:09

what I did and I didn't feel no I

16:11

didn't feel confident enough to lie as I was in

16:13

this situation with me knee shaking so

16:16

I said oh I'm here that good yeah don't

16:18

it was that bad I just I'm a stand-up

16:20

comedian and I was like why the fuck did I

16:22

say anyway any she went probably

16:24

new material and they're something

16:26

absolutely not man you know

16:29

men are always doing jokes

16:31

about how many at

16:33

the prostate exam yeah nobody's

16:36

like roughly amazing got routines about smears tests

16:38

I think I know but like any other

16:40

than that people just very like me I

16:42

like it but you know how many times

16:44

you have to a male comedian talk about

16:46

the finger up the bone yeah you know

16:48

and oh it turns out well you'd met

16:50

him before you know that kind of stuff

16:53

and but anyway my point was you

16:56

know I kind of say that the two best ones

16:58

of that Billy Connolly's got a great routine

17:00

and Rob Brows has one of

17:02

the funny ones in fact I think Rob

17:04

Brows is one is the finisher it's done

17:07

yeah he's doing it the mandrel of fingers

17:09

up the ass yeah you don't need to

17:11

see any other after after yes I use

17:13

such a nice man as well so in

17:15

fact Rob Brows big fan such a good

17:17

comedian go and see him and

17:20

but anyway the point was I just felt in that situation

17:22

was like I don't want to talk about work did

17:25

I tell you about when I had a funny thing so

17:27

um quite a lot of information

17:30

now so I found like this sounds like an

17:32

all-female comedy a funny thing so

17:34

I found like a lump on one of my like somewhere

17:37

in my funny basically like I might label

17:39

it right and and I really

17:41

I sort of like you found it and

17:43

then we're like I think it was just

17:46

like I don't know what I've itched myself whatever

17:48

found it was like fuck that's a lump itch

17:50

I don't even know how I found it

17:52

but I wasn't one king but you can't go I don't know what I

17:54

was doing down there

17:57

but I found it and I wasn't one king but the more

17:59

I go like, I wasn't wanking, it sounds

18:01

like I'm clearly like rubbing one out.

18:04

So in a non-wanking capacity, I found

18:06

a lump, right? And then

18:09

I fell asleep and forgot about and then like

18:11

two weeks later, when I was next

18:13

not wanking, I found that again. And

18:15

I was like, shit, I found this

18:17

weeks ago, it's still there and was

18:19

terrified. And so booked in. And do

18:22

you know what hate you know, when you got phoned up and

18:24

you've got to speak in to someone who's not a medical professional,

18:26

can I get an appointment to see a nurse today, please? And

18:28

they're like, well, what you know, what it depends, doesn't it? What

18:30

is it? And I'm like, do I have to tell you what

18:32

it is? And they're like, yeah, otherwise we might not be able

18:35

to give you a nurse's appointment. I said, okay, I've got a

18:37

lump on my labia. And she's like, I'll just put you through

18:39

to the nurse now. So whatever you've got wrong with you, so

18:41

you've got a lump on your labia because you really get faster

18:43

at it. Yeah, you'll be straight in. Guys, nothing to worry about.

18:45

It's quite a common thing. Call

18:48

it Bartholian cyst, I think. And

18:50

yes, she said antibiotics and I said,

18:52

will it just go in its own time if I just

18:54

keep it clean and stuff? And she said, yeah, because I'm

18:56

worried about, I'm worried about if I stop wanking for five

18:58

seconds. Listen, I think we should talk about stuff like this,

19:01

right? I could be the reason that someone, you know, finds

19:03

a lump and doesn't worry about it. So

19:05

yeah, what doesn't go and get treated and then it

19:07

turns out exactly. Obviously, go

19:10

and check it out. But, but she offered me

19:12

antibiotics. And I said no, because of doing best

19:15

medicine. All the doctors I know

19:17

are terrified about antibiotic resistance. And

19:19

so I said, I do I need it? And she was like,

19:22

not really. And she said, it should clear up.

19:24

And if it doesn't come back, but she said, to be honest, just

19:26

a couple of hot baths and you'll be fine. I

19:28

said, can I wank in the bath? And she said, just

19:30

give it for five seconds. Give it give

19:32

it a rest. Well, I now have to go

19:35

in to be put under anesthetic for am that

19:37

big? Not what they

19:39

just said my vagina is too tight. You

19:41

know, they said, woman must be put under

19:43

for this as we make without actually going

19:45

into have it made bigger because it's just

19:47

been so tight all these years. But

19:50

especially I don't really understand what's happening. I'm just like, yeah,

19:52

when is it just let me put the time off. I'm

19:54

looking for what's been put under anesthetic because I love that

19:56

feeling. I hate it. Oh,

20:00

Did you hear that? Cockrell. Okay,

20:02

so you may have heard of Cockrell in the background. Perfect

20:05

timing just after that. It really was. Well, he

20:07

was an echo and you were planning for me.

20:09

Well, he's been like, you've been talking about Fanny too much. He has a

20:11

bit of depth. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha

20:13

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. He's,

20:16

we've got a couple of roosters, couple of young

20:18

ones, and they're learning how to crow, which I

20:20

didn't realise they had to do because that one's

20:22

like a proper cockadoo loo. And then there's a

20:24

little one. He comes outside all morning. Our

20:26

window every morning is like, aronkala donk,

20:28

if I'm... Ha ha ha ha ha

20:30

ha. He just does these mad things.

20:32

He's like, cockadinkabong. He's trying it

20:35

out. Yeah, he just started trying it for size. But

20:37

he's getting better day by day, bless him. And I don't want

20:39

to shame him. I don't want to shame him. Should we talk

20:41

about this? So yes, now, Lizzie Borden's

20:44

home is a B&B. So

20:46

the area it seems quite interesting because her

20:48

dad was minted, wasn't he? He's really successful.

20:50

He earned lots of properties. Didn't

20:52

he also have an undertaker's business? Yes.

20:55

Because he's sort of famously frugal and the

20:57

rumor was that he would cut the feet

20:59

off the bodies so he didn't have to

21:01

make the coffins any bigger. That's just small-town

21:04

nonsense. I don't believe that at all. So

21:07

what I will say is Lizzie Andrew

21:09

Borden, her middle name is Andrew, he

21:13

thinks he wanted a boy. Born

21:15

16th July, 1860, Fall

21:17

River, Massachusetts. Her

21:19

mother, Sarah Anthony Borden, she

21:21

died three years after Lizzie was

21:24

born. She's very ill health. Do

21:28

you think that was common? Yes. Have

21:30

your dad's middle name? Yeah, maybe it's like that thing in the

21:32

northeast of England where he gave the

21:35

son the surname of, so

21:37

hence the reason Robson Green's called Robson Green,

21:39

I think Robson was his grandfather's surname. There's

21:42

quite a lot of that in like, it's like a

21:44

tradition in the northeast. Do you know there's a village

21:46

on Anglesey, Abafroix I think is where

21:48

Tit is from, where your surname

21:51

would be. So what is your grandma's

21:53

name? May, May, and what was her

21:55

mum's name, do you know? Good

21:58

question, Agnes I think. Okay. you

22:00

would be Rachel May Agnes and

22:02

that way you can trace people's ancestry back

22:05

and I genuinely think it's so they didn't

22:07

fuck their brothers and sisters and cousins. Okay.

22:09

But you would know people's, sometimes they'd have

22:11

four sort of, the surnames or the grandmas.

22:13

Right. And it's only in that sort of

22:16

village. That's quite nice. Yeah, it's lovely,

22:18

lovely little bit of business, lovely bit of

22:20

business. And also, stop the incest.

22:22

What more do you want? Slows

22:25

down the incest. Slows down the incest. So

22:29

she dies and

22:31

she was very ill, the mother.

22:34

She lost

22:37

a child, Alice, who died just

22:39

after her second birthday. And Lizzie was born two

22:41

years after Alice had died. So she was a,

22:43

I imagine she's a very fragile woman. That's what

22:46

she seems. The father was Andrew Jackson Borden. I

22:49

imagine Jackson would have been the surname of his, you

22:52

know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So

22:54

there's a sister, Emma Leonora, nothing

22:57

to report there, Borden. She was born,

22:59

she was only born in 1851. She was

23:01

almost a decade older than Lizzie. So she's gone

23:04

quite a motherly role. And now

23:06

Andrew, the father, grew up in modest

23:08

surroundings of young men, despite being the

23:11

descendant, as you say, of influential

23:14

local residents who work very well

23:16

fit. So he set up a

23:18

business that manufactured furniture and caskets.

23:21

He then became property developer. He

23:23

was also the director of several textile mills and

23:26

on commercial property. Do you know what? As soon

23:28

as I was like, you know, this is such

23:30

a horrific murder and like, you always see crime

23:32

scene pictures of this when you're like not looking

23:34

for them because it's something we've never been into.

23:36

And I was like, you know, seeing this poor

23:38

guy slumped with all these ice wings and then

23:40

being like, oh, a property developer. Fill your boots.

23:43

Absolutely fill your boots. He was also the president

23:45

of a savings bank. And when he died, his

23:47

estate was valued at $300,000. That's

23:50

almost $10 million today. Now,

23:53

when I read that everything's

23:55

so expensive, I'm like, I don't think

23:57

that's in a lot of money now. I'm like $10 million.

24:01

I've been in America and I came back from

24:03

New York recently, I got a scratch card when

24:05

I was there and the top prize was something

24:07

like 30 million dollars. So I paid

24:09

20 dollars for this scratch card and

24:11

I thought, do you know what, 30 million is

24:13

not enough actually, there's things I need to do,

24:15

I'm not going to have the lines that I

24:17

want. Why is everything 50 quid? Everything's 50 quid.

24:19

You go out for dinner, 50 quid.

24:22

You buy a cup, 50

24:24

quid. Train ticket, 50 quid. Everything's

24:26

too expensive. You buy a snide handbag, 50

24:29

quid. No, 80 dollars, 75 quid.

24:31

I did buy a snide handbag and I

24:34

love it. It looks great. I've seen

24:36

it in America on Canal Street, it's very different

24:39

now because when I went to New

24:41

York many

24:43

years ago, it was just a

24:45

lot of Chinese people had the stalls and you

24:47

just went in and bought a fake handbag.

24:49

So like openly the stalls? Yeah, openly. Now it's

24:52

very different. So you walk up the street

24:54

and people go, hey, do you want a bag of

24:56

bags? And you're like, yeah, I do actually.

24:58

And they'll take you round the corner and give you a

25:00

laminated sheet or you go through for a month's follow. What,

25:03

like a menu in a rough cafe? Yeah, it's a

25:05

little store and you put it in and then... So

25:07

basically this guy came up to me, asked if I

25:09

wanted to buy a handbag and said yes and he

25:11

said, follow me, so I followed him. And

25:14

is this because the police have cracked down? Yeah, the police have

25:16

cracked down. I mean there's all the things... I mean the crackdown

25:18

on the means of this. I was going to say New York's

25:20

biggest problem is not the fake handbags, is it? Yeah, so I

25:26

knew what I wanted anyway. So I went

25:28

round the corner and this tiny little Chinese lady

25:30

greeted me and took me round another corner. And

25:32

by this point, my friend is

25:34

not as resilient as me, I would say. He's

25:36

getting quite panicked and I'm like, you're kind of

25:39

killing my boss mate. Were you trying to be

25:41

really cool buying a fake bag? Well,

25:46

I'm not on edge or nervous about stuff like

25:48

that. I know that I'm not going to be

25:50

murdered. This is

25:52

the transaction that's happening. But also I get a

25:54

bit of a buzz out of it like, oh yeah, imagine if I got arrested

25:56

now. My life would be

25:58

ruined, but yeah. And

26:01

then she said, she's looking for it and she went, drop

26:03

some earrings and pulls out this massive thing like this of

26:06

all these fake Chanel earrings. So I went, oh yeah, I'll have a pair

26:08

of them as well. And I said, I'll

26:10

just go for this, it's like 120. I

26:13

said, can I give you eight to, she went, for

26:15

you, yes. I thought, I'm in with these people now.

26:18

I could have gone lower, but I thought I'd set the test. And

26:21

she said, my husband is coming now. And another Chinese

26:23

guy ran across the road with

26:25

a plastic bag and went, and I went,

26:27

yeah, thank you very much. Lovely transaction done. And

26:31

then I gave the earrings to my friends who were cheering

26:33

her up on the off I went. Wow, you're such

26:35

a, you're the bad woman of comedy. I'm

26:37

the bad boy of comedy. Love it. It's a

26:40

great bag. It's a great bag. And I, you

26:42

know, know, someone

26:44

will probably write in there and go,

26:46

actually, do you know those bags are

26:48

made by orphans from the Ukraine? And

26:50

at least- Stop it, stop it, stop

26:52

it. Also, I would say, find

26:54

me a luxury brand that is paying people properly

26:56

to make their stuff if there is a woman.

26:58

Exactly. Please don't write in because

27:00

I've got my bag. I don't fucking care. So

27:03

anyway, look at my little bag. Oh, look, there's

27:05

no fucks. I don't give them. They're not in

27:07

there. Exactly. So, now,

27:10

it was wealthy, Andrew, but he was known for

27:12

being frugal. Yes. So the house was

27:14

in a very affluent area, but it wasn't in the most

27:16

fashionable area. Do you know that they can't,

27:19

in the house, you can't say the word cheap

27:21

because apparently the ghost of him smut bangs

27:23

things if he's described as being cheap.

27:26

So really, they have to like spell it out or

27:28

be euphemistic about it. How

27:30

often are you saying cheap though? Well, when they're doing tours and

27:32

go, you know who's a very cheap man? Because

27:34

there's, but then the things that they describe as being cheap,

27:36

I don't actually think of that bad. So in

27:39

the area, there was a bit called a hill where all the

27:41

posh people lived and he didn't want to live there. He lived

27:43

in the middle of town because he's much closer to his businesses.

27:45

He could walk to check on them. And

27:47

that was the bit that was actually much more

27:49

multicultural as far as where a lot of the

27:51

Irish people who settled there live is where a

27:53

lot of the Portuguese, a lot of anti-Irish, anti-Portuguese

27:56

sentiment in this. So he lived in that area.

27:58

And I think none of the people. And

28:00

then they're like, even though it was common to

28:02

have indoor plumbing and heating, he didn't have that in his

28:04

house and be like, it's not headline

28:06

news that a dad doesn't want to put the

28:08

heating on. Like, find

28:11

me a dad who's desperate to put that central heating

28:13

on. There would have been cavemen that didn't want to

28:15

use all the wood, put on and

28:18

all this bare skin, they would have been saying. So,

28:21

yeah. Also, I'm a bit like that. I

28:23

don't put the heating on. Oh, I

28:25

love that. I'm a little bit, yeah. I'm I

28:27

do you know, if I come home from a gig

28:30

and Tim has had the heat and I can say I come

28:32

back at like 11 at night and I get

28:34

in and I go, it's a bit hot and I touch that radiator.

28:36

Ho, ho, ho. Not having

28:39

it. What are you? Like, you don't need

28:41

that much heat. You're an adult, ma'am. You're

28:44

flat gets very hot very quickly as well. Yes, it does.

28:46

So you would just blast it for, you know, an hour.

28:49

And that's it. But yes, I get back and I'm like. I'm

28:52

on the opposite of my house. I like it

28:54

warm. I have the heating on. Not

28:56

like old people warm, but like because you know what

28:58

it is, if I go in because it's an old

29:00

house and we're going in, it's cold. I feel sad

29:03

straight away. I feel like there's ghosts in the room.

29:05

I know what you mean. You like to come into

29:07

a warm environment. Love to come into a warm environment.

29:09

Usually steaming with a dog having barks out a turd.

29:11

He was very known

29:13

for his clothing. So

29:15

in all seasons, he wore a double breasted jacket

29:18

and a string tie. Well, string

29:20

tie. Like one of those cow, like you would do.

29:22

Oh, I love it. Yeah, great look. Very Brandon Flowers

29:24

kind of like it. Actually, you know,

29:27

Drew photography, Drew Forsythe takes our

29:29

pictures. So a photograph in his own,

29:31

I genuinely thought it was Brandon Flowers at first. I

29:34

don't get those fobs at all. Well, he's all

29:36

leg drew, isn't he? Yeah. One leg and a

29:39

leather jacket. Yeah. But Brandon Flowers, last time I

29:41

saw him, he was I think it was at

29:43

latitude and he had like an orange.

29:45

He's a lead singer of the Killers. He had

29:47

like an orange tan and teeth that I was

29:49

like, have you been to Turkey? Yeah, like it

29:51

looked like he was just coming back from Turkey. And

29:53

it's a little more you to love the killers, you

29:56

know, we do it. I'd say

29:58

possibly my second favorite. And I was

30:00

into him very early. First time I

30:03

saw Brandon Flowers, it was all these

30:05

things that I'd done video. And we

30:08

walked around the corner, on Brick Lane

30:10

in it, and I went, oh, who's

30:12

that man? And I became obsessed

30:14

with him. You know, when they came out in

30:16

the era where he had suit jackets with Southern

30:26

and silver jacket that was so good.

30:28

Yeah, he was so much, like

30:30

at first he was just so handsome

30:33

and cute and thought,

30:36

I mean, I wish him well. You don't give a shit what I

30:38

think. Nice taste. Anyway, so

30:41

yeah, they lived in this bit of town

30:43

that they should have kind of, for the

30:45

circumstances, for being wealthy people of the area

30:47

and well known, they shouldn't have lived there.

30:49

And this contributed to this reputation of him

30:51

being a type. Yeah. They

30:54

had a fairly religious upbringing.

30:57

They went to congregational church. Lizzie was

30:59

involved in activities, including teaching Sunday school.

31:01

And she was a member of the

31:03

ladies, fruit and flower mission. Well,

31:07

all of this contributes to what happens when

31:09

the murders happen is that she was sort

31:11

of deemed to be very, well, her and

31:13

her sister were spinsters. They weren't expected to

31:15

marry. And she was sort

31:17

of deemed to be very ladylike and of

31:19

the upper echelons and did, there's a brilliant

31:22

quote, when they're

31:24

sort of investigating the murder, the police go, because

31:26

the police were quite working class and

31:28

they were, obviously police were literally invented to

31:31

protect the interest and property of posh people

31:33

like them or wealthy people. And

31:35

when they were sort of Lizzie was the

31:37

number one suspect, they said, we can't

31:39

be her because not one unmadely, not

31:42

single deliberately unkind moment could be mentioned

31:44

from her past. She's

31:46

very ladylike and not a not so small

31:49

unkind. I think her step mum

31:51

would beg to differ. Well, three

31:53

years after Sarah, the mother died,

31:55

Andrew married, Abbot, Darcy Gray. She

31:57

was 37, was 37. considered

32:00

an old maid at the time.

32:02

Oh my God, that's my age

32:04

now. Well, I think. I'm not saying

32:06

it could be any age between seven and

32:08

102. But also, I've never been engaged. Not

32:11

asked. And I respect every single one of

32:13

those men for that because they knew that was

32:15

just too good for them. So,

32:18

good luck to them. I

32:20

just find it fundamentally embarrassing, that kind of

32:23

stuff. What, being engaged? Yeah, just be like...

32:27

No. No, I just

32:29

find it quite embarrassing. I find getting

32:31

married quite embarrassing. It's

32:34

a shyness thing, isn't it? Shyness. Yeah, but also I

32:36

just think... I mean, good luck. I mean,

32:39

nice to you. Nice for everyone, but other people

32:41

getting married. I could see you having a little

32:43

registry do though, or getting married by Elvis or

32:46

something. I find it so embarrassing. I don't like

32:48

it. It makes me cringe thinking about

32:50

it. So embarrassing. Everyone

32:54

looking at you and being like... No,

33:00

not for me. Look, I just think I've

33:02

got this far without bit. I think I'd

33:04

struggle to go into any kind of contract

33:07

with anybody. You know that you have got

33:09

a partner of many years. Yeah, that's fine.

33:11

And that's all right. I don't

33:13

think he's asked about getting married. I

33:16

could see you having, you know, like Helena Bonham

33:18

Carr had with Tim Burton, just like two houses

33:20

next to each other. I would

33:22

love that. Perfect. Perfect.

33:25

Anyway. So

33:27

the house, so she was a lower social

33:29

status than Andrew, his new wife, Abba. And

33:32

people thought that he'd proposed because he was

33:34

looking for a living maid and now they're

33:36

for the daughters. But that is true. Like

33:38

when I saw that, that like, so

33:40

I mean, it is the case now, but it's so shit

33:42

back then that like, if a man, you

33:45

know, became a widow, they'll go, right, I need another wife

33:47

because I need someone to cook my meals and take care

33:49

of me. And we're like, it's just

33:51

stuff. You're just taking staff on

33:54

here. There wasn't, but they did have a maid. There was another

33:56

occupant of the house. She was

33:58

an Irish immigrant, Bridget Sullivan. Who they

34:00

called Maggie? Do you know why? Why? Because they

34:03

had a previous Irish maid called Maggie and they

34:05

didn't want to learn a new name. I fucking

34:07

hate everyone in this house. I think they're spoiled

34:09

brats. They are spoiled brats. So they just started

34:11

calling them, just started calling

34:13

her Maggie which is absolutely appalling. She was

34:16

25 years old and the living

34:18

mate as you said. Do you know the setup

34:20

of this room as well? I think maybe it

34:22

was a former boarding house but basically there was

34:24

no hallways so everyone was kind of like cramps

34:26

in there. It was quite intense. You

34:28

had to walk through the mum and

34:30

dad's bedroom to get to

34:33

the girls bedroom. So there was all

34:35

these rumours as well about well

34:38

Lizzie, first of all they said she was gay and then

34:41

they implied that there was a relationship between

34:43

her and her father as well and

34:45

sort of based on not much other than the fact

34:47

that she had to walk through a dad's bedroom to

34:50

get to bed. I don't think that's proof. But

34:53

they had this terrible relationship with what is now

34:55

their stepmother and refused that they would definitely not

34:57

call her mum and I

35:00

think they saw her as competition. It's

35:03

a disagreement as to whether that was competition

35:05

for the father's attention or you know it's

35:07

about money. They want money. Or it's about money

35:09

because that does rear its head as well. So at

35:11

the time of this incident which on the Thursday the

35:13

4th of August 1892, God it must have stank, Lizzie

35:18

was aged 32 when Emma was 39

35:22

and grow-up girls. They

35:25

were living at home. Emma was away. It

35:28

was said that Emma was away the suitor but it

35:30

seems that she was away visiting pals. So it's very

35:32

much like you wouldn't know him because he

35:34

goes to a different school. This incident came off

35:36

the back of their bin a bit of discord in the house. For

35:41

instance, Abby, the step-mom, her

35:43

sister had been gifted a

35:45

property by the dad. There

35:48

you go, there's some income for you and you know

35:50

you'll be the landlord for that. And the girls, whose

35:52

daughters kicked off, were like, why are

35:54

you giving it to our auntie? She's not

35:56

even our real auntie. So they were really

35:58

upset about it. And so he

36:00

went, okay, well, you can have your own house and I'll

36:02

give you a house and you can be landless. You

36:05

mean the Oprah? You

36:08

get a house, you don't have a house. So

36:12

he, he gives them a house and then a,

36:14

but a few months later they come back and

36:16

went, we don't want the house anymore. And he's

36:18

like, why? And they're like, it's a lot of

36:20

work being a landlord, isn't it? Can't you give

36:22

us money? So they did, because the tenants, apparently

36:25

he didn't spend very much on his houses, so they always

36:27

had things going wrong. And the tenants are like, can you

36:29

repair this? Can you do this? This is not

36:31

safe. And the girls were like, oh, I

36:33

don't know. It'd be so much work. So

36:35

kicked off. But they, they really fell out

36:37

over with Abby in particular over this and

36:40

would barricade. Abby took to locking her

36:42

door because it was so

36:44

tense there. And, um, and Lizzie would

36:46

push furniture against her door so no

36:49

one would come in. But you know, it's like, you

36:51

know, when people have to keep sibling, share a room

36:53

and they draw a line. Yeah. Yeah. Get,

36:55

get my side, get your stuff off my side. You

36:57

can't, you can't leave the room because you've got to

36:59

go over my side to get out. So you've got

37:01

to stay there now. That kind of immature thing. I

37:04

must say as well. So as we know, neither

37:06

Lizzie nor Abby, Lizzie

37:09

or Emma were married. It was

37:11

said with Lizzie, this was due to her being not

37:13

a great beauty or homely. Oh,

37:15

stop saying homely. But also, it

37:18

just means probably a size 60.

37:20

But also, Lizzie,

37:23

also Lizzie was, Lizzie was picky.

37:26

And she, the men who she was interested

37:28

in weren't interested in her. And

37:30

those that did see her as a catch were

37:32

chased off by her father because he said they

37:34

were gold diggers. No man could ever love

37:36

you for who you are. So

37:39

there was, as we know, there was tensions within the

37:42

family. Lizzie and Emma wouldn't eat

37:44

with dinner with their father and stepmother. They

37:46

just called the stepmother Mrs. Borden as well.

37:48

And they used to, like, they wouldn't even,

37:50

when they had mates over, because they were

37:52

quite social. They wouldn't entertain in the parlor.

37:55

They had an upstairs guest bedroom. So like,

37:57

we're taking our friends up to the bedroom

37:59

now. It sounds

38:01

like an awful atmosphere to live in.

38:04

Now in May 1892, Andrew went into

38:06

the barn with a hatchet and he

38:09

killed multiple pigeons as he thought they

38:11

were attracting local kids who were hunting

38:13

them. Pigeon moral areas do

38:15

fucking weird shit. Don't they? Yeah,

38:18

you look at your own flashbacks. No,

38:21

I think you have one particular horrific murder locally

38:23

in the one who's growing up. No,

38:25

or one of which one you mean, yeah. Lizzie

38:28

was upset by this because she liked

38:30

the pigeons and had recently built a roost for

38:32

them. The claim

38:34

of upset actually is often disputed in this

38:36

scenario. But this sounds like, all

38:39

of this scenario sounds like a northern

38:41

storyline written by a southern middle class

38:43

writer. They've got a day's work

38:45

on Coronation Street and they'll be like, the

38:47

girls are upset because the pigeons have been

38:49

the hatcheters. Yeah, exactly, exactly. The stepfather. Yeah,

38:51

it'll be a stepfather and it won't kill

38:53

the pigeons. Anyway, so both

38:55

sisters started taking extended holidays to get

38:57

away from the house. They were going

39:00

to New Bedford a lot because there was

39:02

a lot of arguments in the environment and

39:04

tension at home. Lizzie had

39:06

actually been away a week before the murders. She stayed in

39:09

a local boarding house for four days when she got

39:11

home rather than go home immediately. So

39:14

the tensions had

39:16

reached a peak in the months before the

39:19

murders. And as you say, because Andrew gave

39:21

that gift of the house. They'd

39:24

also all been ill recently. And there was

39:26

speculation that it was poison. So basically they

39:28

were all sort of, because people are going,

39:30

oh, Lizzie did the murders or the girls

39:32

did the murder. It was always sort of

39:34

planned and they had tried to poison them

39:36

before and that hadn't worked. But Lizzie and

39:38

her sister were throwing up as well. But

39:40

that has happened in other cases where poison

39:43

is so easily transferred that you don't

39:45

wash a cup well enough and

39:47

suddenly there's, you know, whatever in that as well.

39:49

Arsenicook or whatever. More on this later. Yeah, more

39:51

on this later. But it also turned out that

39:53

they think it was just because he was so

39:55

tight, he wouldn't get rid of food that had

39:57

gone off. So they were just eating the food.

40:00

rotten food all the time and then pissing

40:03

through other ass. That is very... and

40:06

it's hot and it

40:08

stinks. I can't even be bothered and

40:10

there's those dead pigeons. At least there's

40:12

no heating. Imagine it all cooking up

40:14

in there. Horrible. Now the night before

40:16

the murders John Morse who was Lizzie

40:18

and Emma's maternal uncle visited the house.

40:20

He wanted to discuss business with Andrew

40:22

and he was invited to stay but

40:26

apparently there was conversations about property

40:28

which created a tense atmosphere. Now

40:32

several days before the murders the entire house had been ill. They

40:35

said it was Morton left on the stove. Morton,

40:38

I can't think of a worse meat

40:40

to be rotten and fucking cheap. But

40:44

Abi was thinking... stepmother was like I

40:46

think it's poison because Andrew's not a

40:48

popular man in Fall River. Oh

40:50

yeah there was... it could have

40:52

been any number of people who were... so he's

40:54

trying to kill him. So John Morse actually stayed.

40:57

He stayed the night in the guest room on

40:59

the 3rd of August and he

41:01

had breakfast with the family. Emma who wasn't there though, she

41:03

didn't have breakfast and he and Andrew chatted business in the

41:05

sitting room. He left at 8 48 a.m. It is too

41:08

early for all of this to be happening in my opinion. Like

41:10

you've had breakfast, you've done some

41:12

business. Yeah. It's not even nine

41:14

o'clock. He left to buy a

41:16

pair of oxen and to see his niece. Now

41:19

he would be such an old days thing to

41:21

do. Yeah but all of this is like too

41:23

specific. Too weird and it all

41:25

sounds like overselling. Well he also said I

41:28

plan to return at noon. Now

41:30

Andrew... I just first must buy my

41:32

oxen. Yeah. What's going on? Andrew then

41:35

left for his morning walk at 9 a.m.

41:38

Aren't people who have morning walks

41:40

nosy cunts? Nosy fucking cunts. Seeing

41:42

what's happening. Do you know what?

41:45

I was lucky enough

41:47

to film this series in New Zealand

41:49

during October and we were chatting

41:51

about because most of the crew as well

41:53

are from North Wales. There's really funny nicknames

41:56

in North Wales that people have. and

42:01

we were laughing about the different nicknames. And

42:03

this guy was saying, I have to change the

42:05

name. So let's say it's Rachel, but there's a

42:07

woman on an estate in North Wales and they

42:10

call her Rachel Gunnar. And Gunnar is just, is

42:12

well for early. And it's cause she's always like

42:14

four o'clock in the morning. She's like out and

42:16

about in a garden doing things. Like do Rachel

42:18

Gunnar's out. And like, you know, she's walking the

42:20

dog at six and all this kind of things.

42:25

But always like under the crack of

42:27

door. Both insulting, but also nice. Yeah,

42:30

I'd say she's always up early. There's

42:34

an old chap who near Tim's mum

42:36

and dad's house. Every single night,

42:38

every single afternoon rather, he goes to the

42:41

graveyard across the road and he goes to

42:43

his wife's grave. I

42:45

mean, he is pissing on it, but that's not the point. Are

42:48

you serious? Oh, it's a joke. Oh, fucking hell.

42:50

That's actually Tim's dad's joke. Oh, it's good. I've

42:52

done a couple of times. You believe me then?

42:55

Yeah, yeah. What happens is every night, every afternoon,

42:57

he goes to his wife's grave. Obviously, you know,

42:59

I have a little chat over her, whatever, but

43:02

for some reason their dog hates him. So

43:04

this poor guy walks past and Bella, the

43:06

dog's like, is that old bastard? And she's

43:09

like, Oh, shit. It's because

43:11

Bella knows that he's wanking onto

43:13

the grave. I didn't say wanking.

43:15

I said pissing. Well, I'm telling you, wanking. Oh my

43:17

God. I'm so sorry that I

43:19

tried to- That grave is like some premiering curtains, mate.

43:22

Oh no. It's like a jack from Pollock. You know

43:24

what? I can't believe you made that even worse. That

43:27

is horrible. It was just a funny little thing.

43:29

And now it's dirty. Now

43:31

it's coarse. Yeah, it's disgusting. Anyway, they

43:34

were supposed to, Lizzie and Emma were supposed to tidy the

43:36

guest rooms part of their regular chores. But

43:39

Abby went up between nine and 10 a.m. to make the

43:41

bed because obviously he couldn't be asked because he lays the

43:43

little shit. Emma

43:45

wasn't there. So obviously

43:47

Lizzie would have been tasked with doing this. So

43:50

she didn't. So at some point when Abby is

43:53

tidying the bed, she was attacked. And according to

43:55

forensics, Abby was facing her attacker and she was

43:57

struck on the side of the head with

43:59

a- the hatchet and fell face down.

44:01

She was dentshir up multiple times with

44:03

17 more direct hits to the back

44:05

of her head killing her. So obviously the rhyme is

44:07

incorrect. If

44:10

you look at the crime scene photo, it's a

44:12

very famous photo of her. It looks like she's

44:14

kneeling. It looks like very strange. But

44:16

what it was apparently is she fell and

44:19

then you could see her ankles and the police

44:21

were like... Oh, poor in

44:23

kind of. ...cover this up. Like she's

44:25

been through enough already. So they covered her ankles.

44:27

So it kind of looks strange in the pictures

44:30

and looks like she's kneeling up, but it's just

44:32

where the dress has been tugged down. Well,

44:35

absolutely awful. And the whole thing in this

44:37

is when Lizzie is interviewed, she cannot remember

44:39

what happens to Abby after

44:41

9am. She's got no idea, even though they're in

44:43

the same house. She's like, I have no idea

44:45

about her movements after 9am. And obviously at 848,

44:48

my uncle left to buy two walks. Well, obviously.

44:50

And so Andrew Borden returns from his walk at

44:52

1030. That is a long walk. That is a

44:54

lot of snooping. His key

44:56

failed to open the door. So he

44:58

knocked and Maggie, the maid, comes down

45:00

and she went to open it and

45:03

she swore when she found, you know, fackin'

45:05

hell, you know, to be sure. Really

45:09

good. That was Irish. And she

45:11

swore because she found it jammed. Now

45:13

Maggie later testified that she heard Lizzie laugh

45:15

at the top of the stairs immediately

45:17

after this. So if that laughter

45:19

is true, that's significant because Abby was dead by this

45:22

point. So what that's

45:24

significant because you think she was upstairs, she

45:26

was looking at the fact that she killed

45:28

Abby. Possibly something like that. I don't think

45:31

that rings true. I think you would walk

45:33

be upstairs. Don't forget, this

45:35

is like she doesn't want anything

45:37

to do with Abby. Abby is locking her door.

45:39

She hears a maid in front of the

45:41

dad go, oh, fack and laugh. Maybe.

45:44

I'm on Lizzie's side with this. Maybe.

45:46

Lizzie says she went, and she said that

45:48

she told a father that Abby had been

45:50

asked to visit a sick friend because he

45:52

says, where is Abby? So she's going to

45:54

visit a sick friend. Why? Yeah.

45:58

And so and also they tried to find a... friend

46:00

and like that there wasn't a

46:02

fix. Maggie then helped remove Andrew's

46:04

boots pathetic and put

46:06

his slippers on him as he went to

46:08

nap oh my god an exhausting morning for

46:10

this absolute fucking toe

46:13

rag of a man.

46:15

Lizzie is actually

46:18

interesting because the crime scene photographs show

46:20

that he had boots on and not slippers so the

46:22

shoes were never changed. Maggie

46:25

then cleaned the windows Do

46:27

you think Maggie's a liar then? I

46:29

don't know. Maggie is one of the suspects. I think

46:32

she knows that Lizzie Borden did it

46:34

but she's Maggie then says she

46:36

went and rested in a room just before 11 10

46:39

when she heard Lizzie call Maggie come quick father's

46:41

dead someone came in and killed him. Oh

46:43

right okay. Yeah they think that's strange

46:46

because it's sort of it's immediately going

46:48

and someone else that you know naming

46:52

a suspect yes so going someone came into the

46:54

house and then they've killed him but also I

46:56

think if I if I saw

46:58

someone like when you're when you're struck by like

47:00

trauma or grief whatever you don't really know how

47:02

you're gonna react in her defense like there's no

47:04

and so many people have been prosecuted because they

47:07

didn't act the right way even though they're innocent

47:09

it just does different things to different people but

47:12

I I don't know I think it's

47:14

a weird thing to say but I don't think that makes her guilty.

47:16

Yeah I think it does. Well they then

47:18

claim she's been in the barn. Yes.

47:20

I was in the barn. Well then they

47:22

go we'll send for a doctor a bit

47:25

bloody late for that. Yeah it needs more than that. Well

47:27

he slumped on the couch Andrew.

47:29

He'd been struck 10 or 11 times

47:32

by a hatchet a hatchet like weapon

47:34

one of his eyes had been

47:37

split in two cleanly. This

47:39

suggested he was asleep when attacked there was no

47:41

struggle he was still bleeding and death was estimated

47:43

at 11 yes he was

47:45

still warm in fact so

47:48

what they did is they sent for a doctor so god

47:51

love her I'm gonna call her real name which

47:53

is Bridget slash Maggie runs a

47:56

couple of doors down there is an Irish doctor

47:58

and then it's like because something's happening and he

48:00

gets there and Lizzie's like,

48:02

I'm not having an Irish doctor. So

48:05

doesn't use the doctor and instead goes

48:07

send for our friend and this is

48:09

Adelaide Churchill. So a friend of theirs

48:11

in the neighbourhood who arrives sees

48:14

Andrew as like, yeah, definitely dead even though I'm

48:16

not a medical practitioner. I can say that the

48:18

man with an eye in half and

48:21

an 11 hatchet marks in his head is

48:25

actually dead. I think what we have here is a dead

48:27

man. But then not

48:29

long after this, Abby is found.

48:31

Yes. And she is cold.

48:33

Yes. And her blood was congealed. So

48:36

it was clear that she'd been killed

48:38

up to two hours prior to her

48:40

husband. So this indicated that someone must

48:42

have been hiding in the house. Now

48:45

Emma then arrives back in town to

48:47

comfort her sister and mourn. Yes.

48:49

Mourn the parents that she knew were going

48:51

to kill. Well it's a very clean alibi

48:54

opinion. Isn't it? It's a very clean alibi.

48:57

And then as soon as this gets reported and

48:59

called in, it goes in the local paper and

49:01

then the press descends on the area. And in

49:03

fact very shortly after it, word spread and people

49:06

were coming in the house and kind of messing

49:08

with the crime scene. So exactly

49:10

what you wouldn't want today, but to be

49:12

honest they weren't getting forensic evidence then anyway.

49:14

Well the investigators initially were suspicious of Lizzie

49:16

because there was no struggle in the house.

49:18

There was a clean blood spatter. The murder

49:20

was very personal due to the severity of

49:22

the attack and a hatchet head was found in

49:25

the basement with no handle. Which I'll be honest with you,

49:27

when I think back to some of the stuff my granddad

49:29

used to put in the cellar at our old house, I

49:31

think that's fine. Well it's really funny because there

49:33

was this bucket of rags, bloody rags there, and

49:36

the police found them like, what's this? What's this?

49:38

It feels like someone's cleaned themselves up after a

49:40

murder. And Lizzie went as on my period and

49:42

was like, it doesn't matter, we didn't ask her.

49:44

It's fine, Lizzie. It's okay. So literally the fact

49:46

that it was like a posh woman telling them

49:48

that's actually my menses and that they

49:50

were like, we will never ask that question again, worry

49:52

not. Okay, no problem. Yeah, isn't that so funny?

49:55

Thank you Mrs Parshman, no problem. Can you believe

49:57

that like, it's the

49:59

ultimate... saying you're on your period

50:01

to get out of PA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry,

50:04

actually, I didn't clean myself up. Those are my, those

50:06

are my, but I don't mean, I guess they would

50:08

have used rags. On the rag? On

50:10

the rag, of course, yeah. One of my

50:12

favorite expressions, that. Horrible. Cat's been out

50:15

the jam, and Cat's been out the jam, sorry, and on

50:17

the rag, those are my two favorites. I know, thank you.

50:19

I'm very, you know me. And early

50:21

days, the local paper were

50:24

moving the suspicion away from the girls,

50:26

or Lizzie in particular. So

50:29

one of them said, there is medical evidence to

50:31

suggest that this was done by a tall man

50:33

who struck the woman from behind. I was like,

50:35

there is no medical evidence to just suggest that.

50:38

Yeah. Also, they

50:41

sent off the stomachs of Andrew and Abba to

50:43

the, we sent to a chemist to

50:45

see if poison had been taking place because Abba

50:48

had told a doctor that they'd obviously they'd been

50:50

vomiting in the lead up to this, and she

50:52

was worried that they'd been poisoned. Now police then

50:54

visited every store that sold poison, and

50:56

Dr. Smith gave them a

50:58

lead. So Eli Bentz, great

51:00

name, said on the Wednesday,

51:02

prior to the murders, a woman came in

51:05

and asked for hydrogen cyanide. She said she

51:07

needed it for moths, because they've been eating

51:09

her seal skin cloak. Seats it cloak,

51:11

it seems a little bit brutal for

51:14

moths. It's like 1 AK47 for

51:16

these spiders here. So

51:18

hydrogen cyanide, it apparently has

51:21

an almond smell, but only a

51:23

small percentage of the population can detect it,

51:25

so it can be easily put into food

51:27

or drink. That sounds like something

51:29

a man would put on a dating profile, and

51:32

one of the few people that can actually detect

51:34

hydrogen cyanide. You're looking to have me,

51:36

lady. It's very fatal,

51:39

and it affects vital organs. Now Eli-

51:41

So the nuts though. Well, exactly. Eli

51:44

told her he needed a doctor's

51:46

note from her to sell it to

51:48

her, as it was so dangerous. Now 10

51:50

p.m. on the night of the murders, he was taken

51:52

to the boarding house, and he identified Lizzie as the

51:55

woman that he spoke to. Yeah. So

51:57

as you said, the papers were full of the

51:59

news. suspicious for Lizzie.

52:01

Yes. There was spread all over

52:03

the USA, this the

52:05

America, the USA, this news. Now

52:08

New York papers had put a

52:10

reward out for $5,000 that

52:13

was from the sisters. They put a

52:15

$5,000 reward up. Now

52:18

the funerals were held two days after

52:20

the deaths. Get them done. Lizzie was

52:22

prescribed morphine to calm the nerves. They

52:24

also had open caskets. Why? Why?

52:27

Oh my God, I can't know

52:29

that. Yes, absolutely. Why? And I

52:31

bet the other the feet sawed

52:33

off as well. Why? Horrible.

52:37

That's so horrible because also like

52:39

they only checked someone with bad eyesight to be

52:41

like these cold cuts are lovely. What a lovely

52:44

bath thing. Love a cocktail sausage. Boiled

52:46

egg. That

52:49

is so horrific. Oh my God,

52:51

I'm actually not myself sick. They're

52:53

Protestants as well because there's loads

52:55

of tension in this area between,

52:58

yeah, it's a sort of wealthy

53:00

white waspy, you know, Protestant population

53:03

and then the Portuguese move

53:05

people around Irish move people and they treat

53:07

the Irish people and the Portuguese people like

53:09

absolute dirt. So immediately they went, well,

53:11

it's someone Portuguese. Yeah. That's what the investigation

53:14

started looking for. Someone Portuguese when they couldn't

53:16

find some more Portuguese. They went Irish and

53:18

they went, yeah, it's probably someone Irish and

53:20

then went through the Irish population of interviewing

53:22

anyone. And there was a rumor for a

53:25

while that they were, it's a medical professional

53:27

has done this, a medical professional like what?

53:29

They're not using a hatchet, are they? A

53:31

medical professional could have poisoned them easily, not

53:33

hacked them to death. Exactly. And they, but

53:36

then there was another thing. It was, I

53:38

guess, an early sort of forensic psychologist who

53:40

came out at the time and said, hacking is

53:42

almost a positive sign of a deed by a

53:44

woman who's unconscious of what she's doing. So it

53:46

was like simultaneously going, this is the kind of

53:48

thing a woman would do, but at the same

53:50

time going, and she wasn't even aware she was

53:52

doing it. But also I don't actually think

53:56

an axe is a woman's way

53:58

of doing things. No. I

54:00

don't think it is Lizzie, I think it's unfortunate. I think

54:02

it is her, but I do think it's unusual that she

54:04

chose to use snacks. People

54:07

lined the streets for the funeral though, they loved it, around

54:09

3,000 people. Yeah, but

54:11

that's a lot because I think in those days it was only 10,000 people.

54:14

Really? No, I just made that up. I thought you meant

54:16

in the town. I meant like in the

54:18

world. But her, Lizzie's

54:20

appearance was deemed inappropriate because of what she was

54:23

wearing. Yeah, so she didn't wear morning clothes, in

54:25

fact she wore something quite like figure her game.

54:27

I'm living my best life. There

54:29

was a standardised morning dress

54:31

at that time because it's Victorian period. Yeah, and you

54:33

had to wait for a few months. If it was

54:36

your husband, you had to wait for longer. She

54:38

wore this black figure hugging thing funeral, which

54:41

they're like, that's not really what you do.

54:43

And then she was just constantly in bright colours,

54:45

like everywhere she went after that, she said, Lizzie's

54:48

really finding, maybe she had her colours done. Do

54:51

you know what, that's a very North-Swaleian thing. Or

54:53

maybe it's a woman of like 40-odd. I know,

54:55

yeah, yeah. Do you have that? Is that an

54:57

English thing? Did you see that happening

54:59

a lot? Do you mean like

55:02

to what to wear? Yeah, so what

55:04

happens is you go and sit in like a woman's,

55:06

like, you know, there's a bed at the

55:08

bottom of the garden that's well lit and she'll put a

55:10

pashmina on you and go, look how that lifts you. Or

55:12

like this absolutely drains it. Right, I know, yeah. If people

55:14

go and have the colours done, then she'll sort of pick

55:16

what you should buy and stuff. Is that

55:18

a colour stand up? Yeah. And listen,

55:20

if you are doing that, I know it really

55:23

helps some people, you know, it's great, but there's

55:25

one woman doing a fucking roaring trade up in

55:27

here in North Wales, doing everyone's colours. You

55:29

know what, we've got in North Wales one person doing everyone's

55:31

colours and one doula. This

55:33

woman is pulling kids out of people left, right and centre.

55:35

She's like, run with the doula. Yeah, really genuinely. I

55:38

think she's, yeah, she's really Welsh and she's a doula and

55:40

she just does, like, you know, if we do shop or

55:42

something, they'll be like, or someone says to them about their

55:44

kid and they'll be like, oh yeah, because she's a doula.

55:46

I'm like, did you use her as well? Like,

55:49

just like this woman's hand has been up every

55:51

funny. Wow. I actually don't know

55:53

how it works clearly. I can't imagine if it works. Lizzie

55:57

was, this will be upset at the funeral and

56:00

to be held up by an undertaker. She was shaking

56:02

and crying and the sisters stayed in the carriage as

56:04

per the rules of the time by the way because

56:06

it was thought that the women couldn't handle the grief

56:09

of seeing the coffees being lowered in the ground. Well

56:11

yeah they're fine, Lizzie's losing it. But the

56:14

coffees weren't lowered into the ground. They

56:16

were put in a receiving vault as a medical

56:18

examiner wanted to do more examining. Lizzie

56:20

and Emma didn't know about this, the bodies were then put

56:22

into a vault for two weeks. Wow. So

56:25

they suspected it was the girls and they were doing

56:28

all this behind their back. I mean to realise they could

56:30

have just gone to the funeral and had a good look

56:33

while the casket are open. Well so

56:35

this is, the other thing

56:37

as well is as you said that the other

56:40

suspects other than Lizzie were foreigners from the Portuguese

56:42

community because they were Sworley Skindon

56:44

and Roman Catholic, technically me,

56:47

and that was enough evidence for them. But John

56:49

Morse, remembering with his

56:51

oxen, he was also a

56:53

suspect because he was there before and after the killings

56:56

and they had a livestock business but he was also

56:58

a butcher. And he also had

57:00

that sort of like weird disagreement with him

57:02

about properties, it was a bit tense. But

57:05

he had an alibi, which some people

57:07

said was too precise. It

57:10

couldn't have been Emma because she wasn't there. Maggie

57:13

the maid, she

57:15

liked Abby Borden, she

57:18

was, they weren't employed, she

57:20

was employed by her, she gave

57:22

her a home, there was no motive for

57:24

Maggie the maid to be doing this. But also

57:26

there was so, what's really

57:28

difficult about this is I don't, I'm not convinced there

57:31

was motive for Lizzie because

57:33

they said the reason why Abby was

57:35

killed is obviously there's disagreements. And if you

57:37

killed the dad, everything would just go

57:39

to Abby anyway. And if you killed Abby,

57:42

you know, the dad, Abby hasn't got anything.

57:44

So I'm not convinced it is a

57:46

financial motive. I understand that like, oh,

57:48

because it goes to the girls, but

57:51

the girls are pretty wealthy anyway. And

57:53

they didn't want the responsibility of running

57:55

the businesses or the households. They were

57:57

living very comfortably. Yeah, but they

57:59

wanted more. Okay. They wanted

58:01

more. They're quite brat. Well, I will

58:03

say that around the time, here's my counterpoint, around

58:05

the time there had been at

58:07

least one but maybe two other

58:09

incidences of families being slaughtered by

58:12

an unknown killer with an axe

58:14

in the house in the

58:16

same city in the sort of like 18

58:18

months surrounding it. So there

58:20

had been these like basically spree killings of families

58:22

being taken out by someone with an axe.

58:24

Which she probably knew about, so she thought I'll do that

58:26

because then they'll think it's that. Okay,

58:28

I'll let you have that. She did it.

58:31

Well, they get slightly, there's

58:33

no kind of evidence to sort of tie them to

58:35

it really other than like a gut feeling and the

58:38

police have this difficult thing where it's like, well, this

58:40

is a posh woman so we should just believe what

58:42

she says. You know,

58:44

she's automatically trustworthy because she's wealthy,

58:46

she's educated. But then

58:49

Alice, one of their friends, Alice

58:51

Russell comes forward and says, well,

58:53

Alice the grass, they fell out

58:55

with her and they never spoke to her again, rightly

58:57

so. Alice said, well, there

59:00

was this stained dress covered

59:03

in paint, although paint was meant to be

59:05

green. Yes. So the blue dress

59:07

and, and, It's nice to try things out. It's nice

59:09

to try things out. She's having a colours done. But

59:12

this is the thing, isn't it? It's like that there

59:14

was, where was the green paint that she got? You

59:16

know, like, anyway, so blue

59:18

dress with green paint on it and Lizzie says,

59:20

I'm going to burn this dress because I got

59:22

paint on it and I want to tell you

59:24

that Alice, so there's a witness to me destroying

59:27

this dress and Alice is like, don't destroy a

59:29

dress when they potentially think that you're a murderer.

59:32

And she's like, I'm just going to do it

59:34

anyway. So burn the dress. But the

59:36

dress was never found on the first search of a house

59:38

and the police were like, so

59:40

they basically said in court, they sort of caught them out

59:42

and said, well, which one? They're like, she hid the evidence

59:45

from us and you know, this dress is really important. She

59:47

destroyed evidence. And then I

59:49

think the defense went, so what is it? You

59:51

can't do your jobs and search the

59:53

house or she's like, oh, that

59:55

dress wasn't important. And they were like, but then

59:57

they did find blood on one of her skirts.

1:00:00

another search and then what did Lizzie say it was again?

1:00:02

I don't know. She said it

1:00:04

was a period blood again. I mean yeah and

1:00:06

they were like I did it fucking everywhere and

1:00:08

I've got every sort of thing at my disposal.

1:00:11

Now Emma, Lizzie and

1:00:13

Alice were questioned. Alice

1:00:15

told the detective about the skirt being

1:00:18

burned and the

1:00:20

handler's hatchet, the dress and

1:00:22

the attempt to buy poison was enough for a warrant.

1:00:25

Now Maggie tried to leave the house but was told by police

1:00:27

not to because she wanted to go you know as you would

1:00:29

I think. The police interviewed her at

1:00:31

the station and she said she not long felt

1:00:34

safe now that Abby was dead and

1:00:36

she wanted to leave. Now papers

1:00:38

were reporting how old Lizzie had looked and

1:00:40

how a morn in a tire wasn't correct

1:00:42

and you can look a bit older. I

1:00:44

mean you just murdered your

1:00:47

father and Lizzie

1:00:49

was then interviewed by the police and

1:00:51

the DA and her answers contradicted Maggie's

1:00:54

story. Crowds gathered at the police station.

1:00:56

They had nothing to do in those

1:00:58

days didn't they? And at 7pm Lizzie

1:01:00

was arrested and Emma couldn't

1:01:02

believe it. Lizzie was shocked. She was holding

1:01:04

the tears back. She was taken to prison to

1:01:06

await trial. She was vomiting and a doctor was

1:01:09

called and the next day she pleaded not

1:01:11

guilty. Well I do think that like she goes

1:01:13

she's very distressed. She's very distressed when they're

1:01:15

being buried. She's very distressed when they're

1:01:17

being when she's arrested. She's

1:01:20

very distressed during the trial. Acting.

1:01:22

I don't know can you act throwing

1:01:24

up and crying? This was the Victorian days.

1:01:26

It would have been so easy to just

1:01:29

be melodramatic like oh that's

1:01:31

what people wanted. Oh I'm so

1:01:33

mad. That kind of shit. She

1:01:35

did it. So

1:01:39

she liked it. Fuck you can't

1:01:41

say that. I can say what I want she's dead.

1:01:44

June 5th 1893 the trial text

1:01:49

place at the new Bedford courthouse. There

1:01:51

are three judges and a jury of

1:01:53

12 men because don't let women have

1:01:55

a decision. Now she has

1:01:57

got because of the money from the family a crack

1:02:00

team sort of defending her. We should

1:02:02

say as well just five days before the

1:02:04

trial another axe murder happened in Fall River

1:02:06

so this happened so I've one

1:02:09

before as well this happened after

1:02:12

the victim was called Bertha Manchester

1:02:14

which sounds what people that sounds like what people would

1:02:16

call me behind my back but

1:02:19

as you say the murders were extremely

1:02:21

similar but later Jose D'Amelio a Portuguese

1:02:23

immigrant was convicted of the murder and

1:02:27

he was found not to have been in Fall River at

1:02:29

the time of the board and killings. I

1:02:31

don't know so she had

1:02:33

him in her defense Andrew Jennings

1:02:35

and George Robinson now George Robinson was

1:02:37

another kind of flex from a very

1:02:40

wealthy family in the borders he was

1:02:42

a former governor of Massachusetts so he

1:02:44

was respected revered it was a bit

1:02:46

of a celebrity to have him in

1:02:49

the courtroom and representing them. There's

1:02:52

a moment in it where they you know

1:02:54

the thing about throwing the dress yeah

1:02:57

so they have this dress as evidence and

1:02:59

they throw it on the desk and when

1:03:01

it gets thrown it sort of pushes some

1:03:03

papers out the way to reveal pictures

1:03:06

which are evidence pictures of

1:03:08

Andrew and Abby's heads. Hold

1:03:10

on it's no it's actually their

1:03:12

skulls it's actually their head it's not photographed it's

1:03:14

their heads what yes

1:03:17

so Andrew and Abby's heads like

1:03:19

I'm reading it like there must be pictures no

1:03:21

no Andrew and Abby's heads had been removed during

1:03:23

the autopsy and the skulls used as evidence so

1:03:26

they were presented on the first

1:03:28

day right Lizzie fainted. What a

1:03:30

horrible paperweight yeah actually they also

1:03:32

think their parents have been buried.

1:03:34

Well there you go they find

1:03:36

that she's right to faint then.

1:03:38

So the actual heads not

1:03:41

pictures the

1:03:43

actual bombs. They

1:03:46

removed the matter from it was it? Yeah I

1:03:48

imagine so yeah just what you're imagining so I

1:03:50

didn't imagine they bring the actual skulls in. That

1:03:53

is awful so yeah obviously she sees these

1:03:55

skulls and not just pictures which I thought

1:03:58

it was. No no it's actual

1:04:00

skulls. for several minutes and then it's all

1:04:02

chaos in the courts. It's quite a dramatic court

1:04:04

case as well. The evidence of her attempts to

1:04:06

buy hydrogen cyanide the day before the murders

1:04:08

was excluded. The judge said

1:04:10

it was too remote to have any connection. Mental.

1:04:14

Well I don't know that it is if that would have

1:04:16

been an absolutely normal thing for people to go and get

1:04:18

to give it a moment. You need a doctor's note? He

1:04:20

would have said it's too much for the thing that you

1:04:23

want it for. Yeah but you know like yeah

1:04:25

maybe she did it. So

1:04:29

after hearing the evidence the

1:04:32

jury went to deliberate for 90

1:04:34

minutes and I

1:04:36

mean at least make it seem like

1:04:39

you're taking it seriously. What happens? Not

1:04:42

guilty. Yeah. Unbelievable.

1:04:45

She exits the court house and what does she

1:04:47

say? I'm the happiest woman in the world. Of

1:04:49

course she's just got away with a double murder.

1:04:52

I don't know that she did it. I think

1:04:54

it's like I just don't know that as much

1:04:56

compelling evidence other than like you know they would

1:04:59

use evidence like insinuating she was a lesbian to

1:05:01

try and get her over the line. It's been

1:05:03

suggested you know as you mentioned before it was

1:05:05

insinuated that the father might have been abusing her

1:05:07

and that's why she killed him.

1:05:10

It's been suggested she was in a relationship with

1:05:12

Maggie and she killed

1:05:14

the parents after being found with

1:05:16

her after being found

1:05:18

in Trist with Maggie

1:05:21

by Abby and this

1:05:24

I think Lizzie killed her, confessed to her father

1:05:26

who was appalled and then she killed him and

1:05:28

they think that Maggie disposed of the hatchet not having it.

1:05:31

Here's my theory. I think she

1:05:33

did do it but she took all the clothes off to

1:05:36

commit the murder. Well you think she

1:05:38

did it naked? Yeah hence no. That

1:05:41

has been a contemporary thing that was suggested that

1:05:43

there was yeah there's no blood on things but

1:05:45

then so like then why you

1:05:47

know that doesn't make sense with the like the

1:05:50

blue dress right? So everything I feel like all

1:05:52

the evidence that's put forward contradicts the other evidence.

1:05:56

Look I don't know I just think she

1:05:58

did it. You know if she was

1:06:00

wearing the blue dress. Let's say she cleaned herself

1:06:02

with those rags, right? And that's why they're covered

1:06:04

in blood. If there's that many

1:06:06

rags covered in blood, there wouldn't be just a bit

1:06:08

of stuff that looked like green paint on a dress.

1:06:10

So I think that dress has got nothing to do

1:06:12

with it. And it's over, sort of

1:06:15

over egged to make her seem

1:06:17

guilty. I just

1:06:19

think I'm going to

1:06:21

sound controversial here. I think with a lot

1:06:23

of crimes that are committed by women, that

1:06:25

it's so shocking that people want

1:06:27

to rewrite history as if they didn't do it. And

1:06:30

I think there's a lot of that that goes on. I

1:06:33

would say historical stuff. I can't, sometimes

1:06:35

facts are just facts. Yeah, I get

1:06:37

that there's a lot of revisionist. And

1:06:39

I think that sometimes, you know, you

1:06:43

shouldn't do that. I think, you know, I mean,

1:06:45

all right, she got, she got away with it. Sorry,

1:06:47

was found innocent. I hate

1:06:49

that. I hate this sort of revisionist stuff

1:06:51

of quite a lot of things. I'm like,

1:06:53

no, that isn't a fact. You're assuming to

1:06:56

make it seem more palatable. What I will say

1:06:58

is I do think a rich woman could get

1:07:01

away with murder, especially in this

1:07:03

time, because they thought the women weren't capable

1:07:05

of anything. And the rich people could never

1:07:07

do anything bad. And there would have been

1:07:09

a massive power imbalance and, you know, structure

1:07:11

anyway. So I do believe that but I

1:07:13

just don't think there's much evidence for

1:07:15

it. Well, it was, as

1:07:18

we know, it was rumored that Lizzie was a lesbian. I

1:07:21

was that guilty. Lizzie was a lesbian. Lizzie

1:07:23

was a lesbian. Maggie later

1:07:25

married a man in Montana. What a Lizzie

1:07:28

was a lesbian. Maggie later married a man in Montana. Now

1:07:33

it's alleged that Maggie gave a deathbed confession

1:07:35

saying she changed the testimony to protect Lizzie.

1:07:37

I don't think that's true. No, I don't

1:07:39

think they like Lizzie at all. I don't

1:07:41

think so. There was talk of an illegitimate

1:07:43

son who tried to extort money off Andrew,

1:07:46

a man called William Borden.

1:07:48

Later, after lots of research, it

1:07:50

was proven that he wasn't the son. Emma,

1:07:54

it's been proposed that she may

1:07:56

have secretly visited to kill them before being back in

1:07:58

Fairhaven in time to go. That

1:10:00

was nice. It was nice. So I hope you

1:10:02

enjoyed this. This is your, maybe you've

1:10:04

got us on a laptop and you're watching us

1:10:06

on YouTube while you're making Christmas dinner. Maybe

1:10:09

you're slipping in and out of consciousness from

1:10:11

enjoying Bailey's. Either way, we hope you have

1:10:13

a lovely day today. Whatever

1:10:16

your... Is this our Christmas day? Yeah,

1:10:18

I think so. Oh, nice. Isn't

1:10:21

it lovely? Yeah, I'll do. That'll do.

1:10:23

That'll do, Pig. That'll do. Oh, my brothers always

1:10:26

say that to me. Does

1:10:28

it? Yeah. Yeah, when

1:10:30

I finish doing something. That'll do, Pig. Yeah.

1:10:33

That'll do. Another film I've never

1:10:35

seen just that bit. I think

1:10:37

you don't need to see loads of films. You just

1:10:39

got to adjust to them. I've got enough of Star

1:10:41

Wars under my belt that I can reference it in

1:10:43

a set. I would not be less interested. I think

1:10:46

I'm going to watch it this Christmas. In fact, you

1:10:48

know, as you're watching us, I may be watching all

1:10:50

of Star Wars. You know what Tim calls me and

1:10:52

his dad. No.

1:10:54

Oh, because I find Tim's dad very, very

1:10:56

funny. I like him very much. Have

1:10:58

you ever seen Star Wars when it

1:11:01

sounds like it's really cruel, but it's not. It's meant

1:11:03

with affection. That little thing that fits with Jabba the

1:11:05

Hutt, it's called Salacious Crumb. Oh,

1:11:07

yeah. And it just laughs at whatever Jabba

1:11:09

the Hutt says. That's what he calls me.

1:11:12

Oh, here she is, Salacious. They

1:11:14

just say laughing at Jabba's jokes. Well, that's not very Christmassy,

1:11:16

is it? But when I saw a

1:11:18

clip of it, I was like, Ashley, yeah, I can do

1:11:20

this. Yeah,

1:11:23

we hope you have a really nice Christmas and

1:11:25

a lovely New Year. See you on tour, hopefully.

1:11:27

See you on tour, yes. Oh, we should talk

1:11:29

about that. Some of these people today will have

1:11:31

opened a gift and it will have been tickets

1:11:34

to see us. Yes, I really appreciate that. I'm

1:11:36

on tour as well next year from May. I'm

1:11:38

going all over the country. So, yes,

1:11:41

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a space near you.

1:11:43

Thank you to everyone who came to my tour, which is

1:11:45

now finished and seems like a distant memory. There

1:11:48

is one tour date left. Is there?

1:11:50

Well, because I did every single

1:11:53

tour date apart from one, which had

1:11:55

to be rescheduled because the venue couldn't

1:11:57

open because the main show had to

1:11:59

become. So Dawn French had gone

1:12:01

in for a knee operation so I couldn't do my

1:12:03

show. That's so funny. We wish you well Dawn. Get

1:12:05

well to be honest with you. I was

1:12:07

absolutely thrilled when I heard that. I was like, I know. Oh,

1:12:11

brilliant. That's it. We have got our

1:12:13

dream jobs as comedians, but there's nothing better than being told the

1:12:15

gigs pulled on the day. Even

1:12:19

if you, you know, you're a friend as well. You're not seeing

1:12:21

them for ages. Do you mind if we cancel? I

1:12:24

had on the day of my dad's

1:12:27

like ceremony funeral, I was meant

1:12:29

to be doing a charity gig locally that evening, which of

1:12:31

course I wouldn't have pulled because it's a charity gig. But

1:12:34

then because of high winds, it was, it was

1:12:36

in like a marquee outside. It was like, they

1:12:39

said, I'm so sorry. And I was like, I

1:12:41

couldn't be more, like I do care so much

1:12:43

about this hospice, but I couldn't be more fucking

1:12:45

delighted. Yeah. I was like,

1:12:47

thanks Pops. Pulling

1:12:50

gigs from up there down there. Probably not

1:12:52

my dad's. I don't mean that. Love

1:12:54

him, miss him every day. Oh

1:12:58

yeah. So we go, we should say we are going

1:13:00

on till we start on the 30th of March in

1:13:02

Glasgow. Yeah. Beautiful King's theater, which

1:13:05

is huge. Nearly sold out. Yeah.

1:13:08

And it's our only Scottish state because we're not doing the fringe.

1:13:10

So yeah, we're not. No, we've decided

1:13:12

we're not doing the fringe. So if you want to see

1:13:14

us live in Scotland this year, that will be your chance

1:13:16

to do it. And Leeds

1:13:18

has sold out Cardiff. Nothing.

1:13:20

No, Cardiff, Norwich and Bristol are probably

1:13:23

by the time this comes out. Yeah.

1:13:25

And Exeter probably sold out Manchester, even

1:13:28

though it's massive. Nearly sold out. Yeah.

1:13:31

It's nearly sold out. Also we are adding no more

1:13:33

date. No more dates. There are no more dates. This

1:13:35

is 10 dates. Is it Newcastle? We're sorry we're not

1:13:37

coming there. We are. We did try. Well

1:13:41

you had a drink the other day and like, wow, we're

1:13:43

not fucking going back to Newcastle. Fucking attitude on them. I

1:13:46

didn't mean it. Of course I didn't mean it, but I

1:13:48

just hate it. You know, we've been there like four

1:13:50

times. We've always been there four times there. We love it there. But

1:13:53

we've got to be fair and go to other places as well.

1:13:55

But we do love you Newcastle. I would rather you do Newcastle.

1:13:57

It's turn around to a council and go. Why

1:14:00

do you only have two venues? Yes. One is enormous and

1:14:02

one is too small because that is the issue that I'm

1:14:04

having and that we're having. So we'll

1:14:07

do a Halloween show and we'll do a Christmas show.

1:14:10

You never know, maybe Newcastle might be

1:14:12

one of those. Exactly. So, you know. And Ireland,

1:14:14

we're very aware that we passed you over. We

1:14:16

are planning for the thing. Oh, I'm bringing a

1:14:19

tour show to Ireland so the tour isn't really

1:14:21

finished. Dublin and Belfast. I'll

1:14:23

be, yeah. At some point,

1:14:26

you've asked, you better fucking turn up. Nidalik,

1:14:28

Samhain, Merry Christmas and we'll see you in

1:14:30

the New Year. And Lucas, I do love

1:14:32

you. It is a joke. Oh yeah, it

1:14:35

was clearly a joke. You

1:14:37

were just being, yeah, it was clearly a joke. Of

1:14:39

course we love Newcastle. It's one of our favourite places.

1:14:41

Yes. Bye. Thank

1:14:44

you.