0:00

Welcome to edition 105 or

0:03

105, depending on which way

0:05

you like that. Of all killing off

0:26

a film podcaster is me, Rachel Fairburn and Kiri

0:28

Pritchard-McLean. Just before we start, we'll do our usual

0:30

disclaimer. This isn't hero worship. We do these podcasts

0:32

because we have mutual interest in serial killers. And

0:34

as long as we are doing this podcast, it

0:37

stops us from writing to them in prison. I

0:40

was reading that along that coaster. Oh. So we

0:42

have some... They all kill an awful lot of

0:44

coasters. We have

0:46

some coasters in front of us and I was

0:48

reading along the hero worship as she did it,

0:50

which was lovely. It's like, you know, you go

0:52

to like a sing-along edition of The Great Sherman.

0:56

Oh, well, I mean, if you don't know that kind of thing, yeah. Well,

0:58

obviously I would love something like that.

1:00

I once saw someone already

1:03

getting off topic. So basically there was this

1:06

guy, I used to do these nights in

1:10

Preston. Did you ever do the Carrover

1:12

bar? I heard of it. I never did

1:14

it. Yeah. So I used to host it

1:16

every like two weeks and they

1:18

had all sorts of like mad wild acts

1:21

on, some were absolutely brilliant, some were terrible.

1:23

There's one guy who was like, I

1:25

remember him doing a song.

1:27

He's like, oh, this was all about

1:30

my ex-girlfriend, Vicki, and then just belched

1:32

into the microphone. And but by mid-sentence,

1:34

he's like, I want you back, Vicki.

1:37

And he was like 19. He shouldn't have been acting

1:39

like he was like four divorces in. Anyway,

1:41

there was a really great guy called Chris

1:44

and they would sort of, they

1:47

play a ukulele and I think they played

1:49

the saw as well. They're really brilliant and

1:51

talented and very like alternative. And I think

1:53

I used to follow them on Twitter or

1:55

saw them on Twitter and you

1:58

know, somebody doesn't really tweet, but you look at them. and

2:00

the at was like really disappointed. Went to the

2:02

greatest show and won Sing Along and nobody else

2:05

was singing along. And actually everyone was staring at

2:07

me quite a bit because I was joining it.

2:10

But I thought what a beautiful soul to go

2:12

to a greatest show and then complain to the

2:14

venue that the other people weren't getting involved. If

2:16

it says Sing Along, Sing Along, join

2:18

in. That's an order. Well yeah, I say eight

2:21

things like that. I'm not much of a joiner

2:23

in. Or, well

2:25

I'm not, but I wouldn't go to something and then not

2:27

join in. I think you'd get

2:29

involved. Or I'd just not go. Yeah.

2:32

I don't like pantomimes. I find them fundamentally

2:34

embarrassing. Even as a

2:37

child, I found them embarrassing. And

2:39

I must have said this before. There

2:41

was a pantomime that went to school

2:44

and we used to go every year. One

2:46

year I had quite a lot of teeth

2:49

out because I was having a brace and I had more teeth

2:51

than I needed. My teeth were healthy before you all fucking start.

2:54

No one started. Well they will. I

2:57

remember I'd had two teeth out getting ready

2:59

to have this brace. And because of the,

3:02

no because everything's connected, I got a really bad earache

3:04

and I couldn't go to the pantomime and I just

3:06

thought, this is the best day ever. I've

3:09

got a sore mouth and I've had it. But no, I'm just

3:11

gonna go to the pantomime. I

3:13

hate it, it's so embarrassing. He's behind

3:15

you. I love

3:17

it. I love panto. My dream is to ride panto.

3:19

I'd love to be in a panto. Don't get me

3:22

wrong, I would be in one. Yeah, here we go.

3:24

I would absolutely be in one. Don't you know

3:27

though, that all the comedians we know who are

3:29

in pantos are all like, oh, it's nearly December.

3:31

Yeah, they love it, don't they? They love it,

3:33

yeah. Steve Royal. Steve Royal, yeah, Jared Christmas. Oh,

3:35

Jared Christmas. Yeah, Jared Christmas. Phil Walker. Yeah. They

3:38

always really look forward to Christmas because they have an absolutely

3:40

great time. Vicky Stone writes them as well and is in

3:42

them. Interesting. Yeah,

3:44

she's really talented and she's really musical.

3:46

So yeah, there you go, panto.

3:48

Wow. Yeah, so if the offer is there,

3:52

I will do it. But I won't

3:54

respect the audience, so that's fine. Anyway,

3:57

I applaud the day with that. Happy New Year.

4:00

2020-24. We're thrilled to be saying that, aren't you? Yeah,

4:03

I got it right before, 2024. Thank you to

4:06

everyone who came to the Christmas show in

4:08

Nottingham and thanks to everyone who watched along

4:10

at home. It was a good show,

4:12

I enjoyed it. Yeah, it was really fun. Lovely venue. Really

4:14

great venue. Very nice venue. Do you know what, let's shout

4:16

out, because I forgot to mention during the show, to Michael,

4:20

who's a brilliantly camp

4:23

member of Front of House. A lovely guy. Who's

4:25

like, so what's this tonight? And I

4:27

always said, I always do a podcast about serial killers

4:29

and he was like, who's your favourite? Yeah. And

4:32

then, and I said, oh, I'm not sure, but

4:34

you Michael went, oh, Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah. He went,

4:36

especially with having Peters playing him. And

4:38

he was a great laugh. And you know, at the end he came

4:40

out, he said, he said, well, I really enjoyed that. He said, was

4:42

that all I've lived? I said, oh yeah, we have the information for

4:44

the show. But then we just chat and he was like, reminded

4:47

me of sort of Victoria Wood or something like that. I had

4:49

a lovely time. Yeah,

4:52

he was a lovely guy. Yeah. So thank

4:54

you very much, Nottingham Arts Theatre. Nottingham

4:57

Arts Theatre, so thanks for next up. Yeah. As well. You're

5:00

doing that on your tour. I am, yeah. It's

5:02

not quite on sale yet, but I'm going back

5:04

to Nottingham at the Arts Theatre. So I can't

5:06

wait. And we met everyone afterwards, which is lovely.

5:08

And because we've got these cards, like

5:11

as part of our merch. Well, it's just obscene, quite frankly.

5:14

This note, mind you, dry bummed. Just

5:16

obscene? Like,

5:21

who are you sending that to? Like, what kind

5:23

of people? I

5:26

mean, I'm

5:29

part of this, but I don't know what's wrong with

5:31

you people. You

5:33

know, if I, how could

5:35

you send that to somebody? You've got to

5:37

be really specific who

5:39

you send that to. Well, you know what? I did

5:41

a thing where I sent, if people

5:43

mess, if people bought tickets in their first week

5:46

of my tour going on sale, I would give

5:48

them a presence and message me. I

5:50

would send a handwritten card going, you know, Rachel's

5:52

brought your tickets to the and I used some

5:54

of them were like, you know, they're a legend

5:57

or whatever. And someone was like, they own a

5:59

fetish store. I was like I've got just the

6:01

card for this person. Well, I imagine that that person

6:03

would have been a bit much that Ruined

6:07

Christmas and grass if anything crass and we've got

6:09

loads of who knows now we've got this behind

6:11

us We've got loads of little bits that we've

6:13

been given This shows really

6:15

good. I don't know how much people still mention

6:17

this one as well. We signed that in Nottingham

6:21

not great for the podcast but Essentially, we

6:23

have lots of merch but well not much

6:25

gifts behind us that we've been given by

6:27

legends over the Years

6:30

what's at your gas? Yeah, all mine. There's all

6:32

kinds of stuff. Yeah Anyway,

6:34

what was my retract back? So nothing was great.

6:36

Thank you very much for coming in Thanks for

6:38

next up for screening it and thanks

6:40

to everyone who's booked see our tour really

6:42

excited Yeah, it not many tickets left. So

6:44

be quick knows a couple of us although your tour

6:47

is on sale as well Yes, and did you have

6:49

a nice Christmas? Yes, I do it.

6:51

I did actually yeah, it was all right It was

6:53

always people in the house, which is really love that's

6:55

how I like it But then when everyone left there

6:57

was just two days of my partner and I will

6:59

be Read in silence on

7:01

separate sofas and that's nice great had

7:04

cheese and biscuits and watch ghost story. Yeah

7:07

Yeah, it's really nice tonight. I went

7:10

to Tim's family's that was nice and

7:12

then oh I didn't ask and then

7:15

people want to know and I Then

7:18

we went to Harrogate for two nights for New

7:20

Year to the old swan Which

7:22

is Not a nightclub in

7:25

a hotel the one where Agatha Christie when she

7:27

flounced off for ten days eleven days Because

7:31

her husband was cheating on her. That's

7:33

where she was found reading a book about it. I mean, it's

7:35

very interesting Anyway, we went to

7:37

a national trust property as well Won't

7:41

be going again over the Christmas

7:43

period Went to

7:45

fountain's abit lovely. I love a national trust.

7:47

I do as well, you know, but and

7:50

I'm gonna sound awful here You

7:52

know, I can't cope with what's other people

7:54

but it'll behave children

7:58

You know, we're not happy Monks

8:00

would burn to death in there. And

8:02

this kid's like, oh, kids, dammit. A

8:06

screeching. No one has any control over their children.

8:10

I want, you know, I want lots of nice things, lots of second-house pictures. Could

8:12

I get a picture without a three-wheel buggy and no

8:14

one fucking couldn't, right? Or

8:17

a heavily pregnant woman with a cap, kids, and

8:19

jacket on. Just, people

8:21

just ruining the environment. It's just noise and

8:23

stuff like that. And it

8:26

just really annoyed me. And there was

8:28

people, I mean, oh, yes, dogs are nice. And

8:30

yes, we did have a dog with us, a

8:32

well-behaved one. Too many dogs, people

8:34

bring dogs everywhere, people tripping over dogs. I

8:37

just, I'm not

8:39

at peace with people. My

8:41

Christmas, I forgot to say this earlier, that what

8:44

happened several times over Christmas, and it was our

8:47

fault, is that we have, you know, like a

8:49

food waste bin on the floor. The dog is

8:51

now just getting out of his cage, flipping the

8:53

lid off it and helping himself to whatever is

8:55

inside. And then we come down in the morning

8:57

and it's absolute chaos. There's

9:00

just like dog shit everywhere with teabags in

9:02

it and stuff. Oh, no, please. At night we

9:04

bring him up, he's in the kitchen in

9:06

his little cage in the day, and then

9:08

we bring him into the living room at night

9:10

and he sort of like falls asleep on

9:12

a blanket in there. So we're doing that.

9:14

But his farts were so bad because he'd just

9:16

been like hammering Brussels sprout casings and things

9:19

that we put Vicks under our nose like you do

9:21

in there. Like when he goes to

9:23

see a dead body. Yeah, when you're doing an autopsy. Oh,

9:25

my God. Because he was absolutely fundamentally

9:27

changing the atmosphere in the room. At one

9:30

point, like I always have cameras going in

9:32

there. Was it with Michael Fish? It

9:34

was, it was, generally it was Michael Fish bad.

9:37

Yeah, I thought the paint was going to peel

9:39

off the walls. It was unbelievable. So

9:41

that was my, when I think of Christmas, I

9:43

can still taste it. Oh, don't, that's him.

9:46

The worst thing is I'm hungry, my stomach started wanting him when

9:48

he said that. That's horrible. I'll

9:51

get you some teabags and some sprout casings. Oh,

9:53

don't. We are going to be talking about

9:55

a case that we've talked about, talking about for a while. We normally go

9:57

for something big in the new year. This will probably be a bit of

9:59

a surprise. to be a multi-parter we just don't

10:01

know how many parts yet. I hate him and

10:03

I think he's a tosser. Okay so we are

10:06

doing, so part one of

10:08

episode 105 is the

10:11

Unabomber, Ted

10:13

Kaczynski, sometimes pronounced

10:15

Kaczynski, which is the original

10:17

way to pronounce it but Kaczynski

10:20

is how it is pronounced. Well he's dead

10:22

so I don't think he's going to write

10:24

him. Unabomber. Unabomber.

10:27

Unabomber. Well I think Unabomber sounds

10:29

like something that I would

10:31

buy from ASOS that would give me a

10:33

camel toe. Immediately. You know something, he can't

10:36

raise your arm otherwise it goes right up

10:38

the middle. You're not sure how to wear it.

10:40

Unabomber. He is a, I

10:46

mean he, I didn't realise until I started

10:48

sort of like researching this that he had

10:51

15 years of getting away with it

10:53

before he was found. It was a

10:56

massively expensive manhunt, it was $50 million

10:58

the manhunt to find him and I think they only sort

11:00

of found him not, it

11:03

was basically someone coming forward. Yeah, that's, he probably

11:05

would have, if that had not happened, he'd still

11:08

have got away with it.

11:10

I would have had him. Yes, now he has a, he doesn't

11:12

have a very high

11:14

death count, not that we're complaining. It

11:17

was three people who died but there

11:19

was a fair amount, it was 22

11:21

people who were injured or maimed because

11:23

basically he spent a long time of

11:25

that 18 years refining his technique and

11:28

we'll talk about that later but he had

11:30

a diary where he kept sort of being

11:32

really irritated that he wasn't able to create

11:35

a lethal bomb. He's,

11:38

I find him highly

11:40

irritating myself but also I find

11:43

him obnoxious, king of the

11:45

insides and you know I hate about him more than

11:47

anything like

11:49

what he did, I mean I just

11:51

find the idea of doing

11:53

this to people who are just, I

11:56

mean any sort of crime's horrible but you know

11:59

people just don't need to do it. post. Yeah. And there's a

12:01

particular one of them, the

12:04

advertising executive who was killed, when there

12:06

was children in the house as well. Yeah.

12:08

So I just find him also how dare

12:11

he take the joy of getting a parcel

12:13

away from people. Well, having said that the,

12:15

when I used to work at the Tourist

12:17

Information Center in Manchester, I joined the

12:19

team just after September 11 2001. And

12:24

something happened then I don't know if you know,

12:26

and because some of that is sending the

12:28

anthrax as well. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. In the

12:30

post. Well, like, yeah, they put like talc in and

12:32

yeah. And I worked with this guy was like, well,

12:35

if you're opening the post, you've got to

12:37

put these gloves on and this mask. You

12:39

know, the anthrax thing that's going around at

12:41

minute, I'm thinking it's

12:43

not going to be Manchester Tourist Information Center.

12:46

Open these letters requesting an accommodation guy

12:49

with like a, you know, a mask

12:51

and a bloody pair of plastic gloves

12:53

on. Awesome. What is that doing if

12:55

there's anthrax in it? You clearly be

12:57

dead anyway. I

13:00

love it when people get really excited about

13:02

something like a fish just like that. Oh,

13:04

yeah. You know, when I think the people

13:06

who you know, airports where you're not allowed

13:08

like whatever small bottle of shampoo, I think

13:10

they absolutely love being like you got been

13:13

not, they look well, we've been to this before.

13:15

And it is bullshit. And

13:17

Manchester Airport is one of the few international airports

13:20

now that you still have to put your bits

13:22

and bobs in a plastic bag. Oh, yeah,

13:24

sort of been phased out. Yeah. But Manchester

13:27

just still carries on as if there's not

13:29

enough disruption at that bloody airport. I had

13:31

to put it all when it flew internationally

13:33

to New Zealand, I had it all in

13:35

a bag. But tell you what didn't happen

13:37

on the way to New Zealand. They're all

13:39

back. Nobody checked my fucking visa. Not once.

13:41

Not once was my visa looked at. Maybe

13:44

they had it electronically. Maybe.

13:47

Yeah, maybe. Remember they asked you to

13:50

bring a physical car anyway. So Ted

13:52

Kaczynski is his

13:54

parents are Polish immigrants. And

13:57

Theodore John Kaczynski. Yes, for now.

14:01

He has a brother called David and

14:03

David is very integral to the case

14:05

and he and he and Ted are,

14:07

well it's weird, they weren't

14:10

close. They

14:13

weren't close but I think David really looked up to

14:15

him and you can kind of see why. They were

14:17

just sort of kind of a quite straight forward normal

14:19

family weren't they? Yeah it was born 22nd of May

14:21

1942 in Chicago. In

14:25

class family parents were Polish Catholics, they later

14:27

became atheists though. The parents,

14:30

Wanda was the mother and

14:33

the dad was Theodore Richard Kaczynski. He was

14:35

a sausage maker. Make

14:37

us that what you will, so many jokes. They

14:40

married on the 11th of April 1939. The

14:43

family were described as civic minded and good

14:45

parents. They made lots of

14:47

sacrifices to make sure that their sons had a

14:49

very good life. They were quite frugal as well

14:51

so there wasn't a lot of money

14:53

coming into the house but they were really careful

14:55

with what they had which comes

14:58

back in later life because Ted frequently

15:00

borrows money from them and they have the

15:02

means to do it because they were so

15:04

careful and they're growing up. Both sons were

15:06

very intelligent but Ted was exceptionally

15:08

clever. He was very very smart but

15:10

he seemed quite lonely to the kids in the neighbourhood. He

15:13

was quite a bit of a loner, sort of on his

15:15

own. But

15:17

the other thing is he attended

15:19

Sherman Elementary School. He

15:21

was happy and well adjusted there. David

15:24

was born in 1949 and then they

15:26

moved to Evergreen Park. Ted goes to

15:28

Evergreen Park Central Junior High and his IQ was

15:30

tested at 167 so he skipped the

15:34

sixth grade. He'd loved being

15:36

amongst his peers because I think he was

15:38

a lot smarter and he was very

15:41

much a leader amongst a lot of

15:43

his friends. When

15:45

they take him out of that environment and they put

15:47

him with older kids he couldn't fit in and he

15:49

ended up being bullied by them. Yeah

15:51

well I think there's two. I've

15:53

been in schools where kids have been moved up

15:55

three years. I briefly was moved up for a year.

15:58

I don't think that was a clerical error looking back. But

16:00

like I think I don't know

16:02

that it's a great idea because I understand

16:04

you've got to push them intellectually But it's

16:06

still like an eight-year-old with eleven-year-olds. I do

16:08

think it causes problems I think leaving where

16:10

if you smart in a year challenging with

16:13

something different Yeah, just leaving where they are

16:15

with you know, they might be smart,

16:17

but they do want to be around because their own age but

16:19

he remained smart like he went to

16:23

There's a point bit in his childhood. We should talk about

16:25

now His

16:28

mum says that basically one day David

16:30

turns around and says to his mum

16:33

Mummy, what's wrong with Teddy? Because

16:36

he could just sense that his brother was different

16:38

and at first I think he thought it

16:40

was to do the fact that he's really

16:42

clever He says and he was amazing at

16:44

music would do like these incredible compositions and

16:46

and also really academic So he said oh

16:48

when we were growing up everyone would say

16:50

all your brothers are gonna be the next

16:52

Einstein And we thought well, he's either gonna

16:55

be Bach or Einstein. So he was like

16:57

good in different areas Although I would

16:59

say music's quite Mattsy But that's someone

17:01

who can't read music and doesn't actually

17:03

know anything about music. I was feeling

17:05

it's creative maths I would agree

17:07

with that to a certain extent. Can you read music? I

17:13

am terrible at math and I have no

17:15

musical ability. Well, Owen you're a musician. Is

17:18

it Mattsy? Interesting

17:29

Daddy Barlow So

17:32

he says what is wrong with Teddy and

17:35

he's and his mum said well when he was

17:37

little He was about nine months

17:39

old. I think he had got a rash

17:41

all over his body They

17:43

took the baby into the hospital. He was

17:45

in there for but some of us in

17:47

a week and ten days there's different reports

17:49

on it and There

17:51

was a received wisdom at the time that normally would stay

17:53

if your if your kid is in hospital You would just

17:55

stay with them and they were like no, no, no that

17:58

doesn't help the healing and they were allowed to visit

18:00

him twice a week. So this baby was

18:02

removed very suddenly and put in this environment

18:05

and so he comes back and apparently he

18:07

was just completely different. She writes in her diary, this

18:09

is in 1942 I think, 42 or 45, she says

18:15

baby home from hospital and healthy but quite

18:17

unresponsive, it was 1945 when she wrote

18:21

this and apparently that was it,

18:23

it was like a switch ad flic and

18:25

he was completely different but there's

18:27

a lot of instances along the way where

18:29

something unusual happens to Ted and it influences

18:31

his behavior. So the fact that he's removed

18:33

from his family when he's a kid, the

18:36

fact that he's a genius, the fact that

18:38

he's moved up, the fact that he goes

18:40

to Harvard at 16 years of age, which

18:43

we'll get to in a minute, yes and has a tough

18:45

time there. I don't know what I think

18:47

about this, that was something to

18:49

do with it being in hospital for being as

18:51

a kid, I don't know. He was horrible, he

18:53

was also horrible to his family, he knew he

18:55

was smarter than them, he would argue with the

18:58

dad all the time. There's a horrible story about

19:00

his mum coming in, holding a casserole and he

19:02

comes up to her and he's like smiling which

19:05

when I think his brother is recounting the story is

19:07

like which is unusual anyway, he tends to smile at

19:09

any of us. He holds out the

19:11

seat for his mum and as she sits down

19:13

he pulls it back and she pulls this boiling

19:15

casserole all over herself and then

19:18

there's this big argument. What a shit! He's a

19:20

shit, yeah he's a shit, what a waste of

19:22

casserole. It is a waste of casserole but also

19:25

that's dangerous. It's really dangerous and she's like crying, dad's

19:27

screaming and he just goes up to his room and

19:29

is laughing. So there's something wrong with

19:31

him. At one point his mum doesn't know what's going

19:33

and goes and speaks to someone

19:35

at a local school for people with autism

19:37

and is like can we send him here?

19:39

They just were a bit kind of despairing,

19:41

they didn't know what was going on with

19:44

their son basically. I think

19:46

he might just be an asshole. Yes,

19:49

well yeah also like you

19:51

know I think sometimes if people are really

19:53

bright there's obviously like a frustration there but sometimes

19:55

I know people who aren't

19:58

like don't have an IQ of 160... but

20:01

they're, and it's men, they are the

20:03

smartest bear in their social group and

20:05

they're all, without exception, dangerous

20:07

because they think they have this they have

20:09

this elevated sense of self because they're like

20:11

I'm the clever one and often they are

20:13

but only because they're friends of fucking potatoes

20:16

and I honestly think it makes people like...

20:18

You said potato at my Mr. Rumble, go

20:21

on. Do you want to go and get

20:23

some potato peelings from the... No

20:26

but I agree with you, I think that is... It's

20:28

dangerous to be the smartest one. It's

20:30

a train-man dynamic, you know you see men on a

20:32

train and they're all drinking and

20:35

there's always one that thinks they're... Oh

20:38

yeah, it's a boss. And

20:40

they're always bullying the nice one. Yeah. So

20:45

he was shy when he was growing

20:47

up but he was kind of, he

20:49

was fine but when he moved up

20:51

to Harvard especially he found it very

20:53

difficult. Well when he was

20:55

moved up a year at school he

20:57

did continue to be ahead of his classmates

20:59

who were older especially

21:01

in, he was in an advanced maths class.

21:05

He mastered the subject so well, that

21:07

was a terrible sentence. He

21:09

mastered the subject and

21:11

he skipped the 11th grade and he graduated at 15 after attending

21:13

a summer school and he won a

21:16

scholarship to Harvard but he wasn't

21:18

very prepared for this because he is still a 15 year

21:20

old boy. He was

21:23

a maths prodigy and he moved him into

21:25

this intimate space to live with other precocious

21:28

new students. Oh God,

21:30

imagine. He

21:33

was described as very intelligent but socially

21:35

reserved. I think that was

21:37

fine, nothing wrong with that. He graduated

21:40

in 1962 but while he was

21:42

there at Harvard he participated

21:44

unwillingly, he said later on.

21:47

He was sort of coerced into

21:49

it he said. It was

21:51

a controversial study by a psychologist called Helen

21:53

Murray. Now this study was backed by the

21:55

CIA and it was the project code name

21:58

for this study. It

22:01

was inspired by mind control techniques used

22:04

on US prisoners of war in Korea

22:06

by the Soviet Union, China and North

22:08

Korea. Now, the

22:11

programme sought to

22:13

understand how mind

22:16

control minds and sometimes used LSD, but

22:18

there is no evidence that this was

22:21

used in the one that took part

22:23

in. So what this

22:25

study was attempting to do was attempting to produce

22:27

a perfect truth drug. So

22:30

interrogation of suspects, they

22:32

were Cold War Soviet

22:34

spies and other ways of

22:36

mind control. You know what I love about this

22:39

is like I studied, I did the psychology A

22:42

level and I started a degree in

22:44

it, right? And I love that

22:48

in the 60s things were just fucking wild. Like

22:50

you didn't need to get permission for anything. So

22:52

they were like, pretend it's a prison for a

22:54

bit. Yes. You know, the 50s

22:56

and 60s, they did some absolutely nuts stuff. That

22:58

experiment, the prison experiment. They're like, keep a baby

23:00

from its family and just see what happens. See

23:03

what happens, yeah. Yeah. Change the gender of that

23:05

child, but don't ever tell it. Don't tell anyone.

23:07

Because there's a botched search. Like split these triplets

23:09

up. Yeah. And see what happens. It

23:11

is absolutely mad that how, because it's so interesting, isn't

23:13

it? That like, I remember when I was doing anything

23:15

like psychology related, you have to do a study, you

23:17

have to get all this informed consent. And

23:20

sometimes informed consent, it affects the outcome because you're

23:22

going, this is what we're looking at. And then

23:24

people want to respond correctly. So it does alter

23:26

it and you're like, I wish you could do

23:28

it without informed consent and be

23:30

like, well, we were allowed to for a while.

23:32

And some people wanked off dolphins, split

23:34

up babies, you know, like, it's

23:37

just tortured students. Have

23:39

you read about that story about

23:41

a woman, they're like training dolphins

23:43

and she's like, oh, we

23:45

just wouldn't let me get on with it until I gave my

23:47

hand job. What, the dolphin? Yes.

23:50

Yeah. I hate dolphins. I think

23:52

they're horrible creatures. You wouldn't give a hand job. No.

23:55

500 feet. I hate them. He's mad

23:58

that the two nineties are the worst. Yeah,

24:00

but the two creatures that everyone's like, oh,

24:03

I love dolphins me Oh chimp

24:05

that they are dangerous horrible

24:07

creatures dolphins a rapist. Yeah

24:09

gang rape and chimpanzees are

24:12

Fucking vicious. Yeah, they're horrible

24:14

creatures and I would I see

24:16

I'd be happy for both of them to be extinct

24:18

I don't give a shit Get

24:21

rid gone. Um Strong

24:24

views I wasn't expecting that horrible creatures.

24:27

You don't want to swim with no Don't

24:29

wanna swim with chimps Don't

24:32

wanna have a laugh with a dolphin So

24:37

this experiment they put like bright

24:39

lights on People and interrogate them

24:41

they'd make them write essays about their values and

24:43

things that are important to them and then you

24:45

would interrogate them about that and

24:47

rip its shreds You

24:49

just can't take criticism basically can is what

24:51

I think absence it's interesting that they've taken

24:53

a group of very gifted people who've probably

24:56

done brilliantly and always been able to express them

24:58

as academically through essays and then in Try

25:01

to humiliate them and that

25:03

this is often cited as one of the things that affected

25:06

Ted Well, that's what they did these the essays as a

25:08

base for the in here Like

25:10

comedy reviews don't they? Ted

25:12

apparently took part for 200 hours over

25:15

three years and he said that his

25:17

mental health and emotional well-being suffered in

25:19

my opinion I just think this is an excuse. They

25:21

couldn't blame his mom So they found Helen Murray another

25:23

woman to blame for Ted's problem interest day He

25:26

then enrolled at the University of Michigan He

25:29

earned his master's and doctoral degrees in

25:31

mathematics in 1964 and 1967 Michigan

25:35

wasn't his first try. So oh can I

25:38

just to go back to his time at Harvard? He

25:41

when he graduated he his final grade was

25:43

ninety eight point nine percent He

25:46

finished the highest in his year at

25:48

Harvard and he was he was very

25:50

it was a 16 when he finished

25:52

About 18. Yeah 18. So he's graduating

25:55

as a times

26:00

tables. But he becomes yeah he graduates

26:02

in 62 he becomes very withdrawn

26:05

and in the final couple of years

26:07

he he'd always spoken so he

26:09

didn't really have like great friends we had some some

26:12

people he connected with and he would talk about ideas

26:14

a lot and what he talked about is how

26:16

he was worried about where technology was going and

26:19

he was very anti-technology and I'm

26:21

a bit like that no really I don't

26:23

like filming this what you know what there's there's weird

26:25

bits of this I'm like well he's right about that

26:27

bit yeah there are little but not people aren't wrong

26:29

all the time I know but it's David Ike isn't

26:31

it because I've written that I'm like well is this

26:33

but are you on the money there I'm very against

26:35

AI what is it mostly used for as far

26:38

as I can see to create

26:40

pornography and images of women without their

26:42

consent I would say that is what

26:44

most people are fucking about with it

26:46

for and I just think it's fucking

26:48

wrong every technology that happens though

26:51

is just another way of making porn weirder

26:54

I know but I just think it's fine it's like we've got so

26:56

far I just think there are limits and I think there has to

26:58

come a point where we go well no that's not all right um

27:01

he also said that Harvard's going back to

27:03

what we are talking about which is the

27:05

Unabomber he said that Harvard was an elitist

27:07

and snobby place and when he came back

27:09

and David was like how's university he said

27:12

he said he was Ted was being very weird

27:14

and distant with him and was like David

27:17

was like you're really clever like I'm so in

27:19

awe of you and he said real

27:22

all real smart people have a

27:24

sadistic streak in them was something that

27:26

he had learned at Harvard or was

27:29

sort of operating by so I

27:31

think that's I think there's a series of things that

27:33

sort of damage him and then you've got the

27:35

sort of like crucial kingpin

27:38

in it of him being an asshole because he's

27:40

the smartest one I think when he thinks people

27:42

have sadistic streak it's just him not getting invited

27:45

to party stop being

27:47

weird and people might invite you

27:49

to a weirdo so

27:52

yeah goes to Michigan uni gets a

27:54

PhD in theoretical mathematics and there's a

27:56

camping trip about this time as well

27:59

so and He gets really

28:01

into being out and about in nature,

28:03

in the wilderness, and he and David

28:05

go camping. And when

28:07

they get there, Ted says, why don't

28:09

we have a few days where we don't

28:11

eat any food that's made by a corporation

28:14

or anything like that, we just live off the

28:16

land of berries and things like that. And David's

28:19

like, yeah, great, let's try it. And then about

28:21

six hours later, David's like, I'm hungry. And he

28:23

goes to the car and eats a load of

28:25

biscuits, which is exactly how I would do like

28:27

eating up. Do you know what I mean? Like,

28:29

yeah, I just want to be one at nature

28:32

and living off the land. Yeah. Slamming stray peanuts

28:34

in the footwell of my car for like a few hours

28:36

going across the field to like a

28:39

motor services. Get some chicken nuggets.

28:42

So he is Ted, he says, Ted,

28:44

like I ate these cookies and Ted

28:46

loses it. And he just drives off

28:48

in the car and he leaves David

28:51

there. And he was like,

28:53

we made an agreement that we wouldn't eat

28:55

anything corporate that we wouldn't be consumed. But drives off

28:57

in his can. Yeah, well, this is this is what

28:59

pisses me off about him. So he drives off and

29:01

he leaves his brother there and he comes back the

29:03

next day and say, Oh, sorry, I'm the next day.

29:05

Yeah. So he's overnight. Imagine

29:09

being like God, imagine it. I know what

29:11

I'd be like, I'd be like, I regret

29:14

nothing. God, if David was hungry, he must

29:16

have been hungry overnight. Oh my God. He's

29:18

taught the biscuits with him. Listen,

29:20

I'm hungry now. That

29:23

must have been awful for him. I think it

29:25

was. I actually think David had a really rough

29:27

time off Ted. It seems like

29:29

the family is quite, excuse me, excuse

29:34

me, buried from the wilderness again. Sorry, I got a

29:36

bury in my throat. Actually from for, I tell you

29:38

what, it's a year of foraging this year. Oh,

29:41

people are into that now, aren't they? Yeah.

29:43

Well, I've always liked eating

29:45

things for fruit. What is this? We're

29:48

going to have to use AI to finish the podcast. How's

29:53

that? Is that better? That's very, you know, hate

29:55

it when like your own spit gets in your

29:57

throat. It's like, Oh, my body's attacking me. I'm

29:59

being silent. Have you ever choked on your

30:01

own spit on stage? No! Have

30:04

you ever had that where your own spit goes down

30:06

the wrong way? Yeah, but not on stage. Yeah, why

30:08

have I not on stage? I'm like, sorry, my own

30:10

spit trying to ruin the gig here. I've

30:12

never felt more disgusted. I might as well have a

30:15

flap out. I

30:17

feel so vile. Anything like

30:19

that that shows how you're just a meat sack, I

30:21

absolutely hate. Have you ever done it where you're talking

30:23

and you get like, do you know what, a neck

30:25

burp? Yes. One of those.

30:28

That pick up on the microphone. I've

30:30

had that. Yeah, yeah, I've had that.

30:32

Awful. Does my stomach rumbling pick up

30:34

on the recording? No. I

30:36

can't even hear it. I think I was lying there. I can't

30:38

hear it. That's okay. Cool.

30:41

You getting beach body ready, mate? No, I've

30:43

just, some bodies are made in the winter. I

30:45

went to my table table last night. Oh

30:48

God. I fucking love. So can I

30:50

just say, Rachel is always welcome to stay in my

30:52

house. Yeah, I know, but, right, well, I just thought

30:54

last night, because I've been around people,

30:56

I've not been home since then. What was it?

30:59

The 20th of December. I thought it'd be nice to just be a bit

31:02

of peace. Get me, get me, do me

31:04

research for, you know, crack on with this. But

31:07

there is, you know, I love the premiering, but

31:09

next door there is the chain restaurant, the table

31:11

table. I love it. I am

31:13

unashamed with it. I fucking love

31:15

it. And you had

31:18

a vegetable Thai

31:20

curry. Lovely. But I did have a

31:22

chicken breast put in it. I

31:24

was actually going to go for the vegan chicken breast, but I

31:26

thought I just had the chicken breast, but I did eat the

31:29

other day at a vegetarian. Not purposefully.

31:32

And I felt so much better for it. Really?

31:34

Felt like you're going to do a veganuary. Well,

31:37

no, it's a bit like our chicken breast last night. Oh yeah. But

31:39

I purposefully, I am making a thing this

31:42

year to eat less meat

31:44

because, I mean, I only

31:46

really eat chicken and beef anyway, but I

31:48

just like animals and I can't keep liking

31:51

animals if I keep eating them.

31:53

I mean, I feel bad. Really?

31:55

Yeah, I do. I can't keep going,

31:57

oh, look at these lovely animals and oh, watching all these.

32:00

nice videos of animals, you know, look at this

32:02

cow now. Not many nice videos of chickens out

32:04

there. There are. Are the

32:06

ones with the disco ball. People

32:08

keep sending me chicken content and I'm... Just

32:11

because you've got chickens now. I'm not interested.

32:13

Kimmy likes chickens. Well, there's one where there's a disco

32:15

ball. There's a lot of the chicken stuff. Which someone

32:18

puts a disco... Care of, PBJ management. No, don't do

32:20

that. They put a disco

32:22

ball in with their chickens and the chickens are kind

32:24

of looking at it and there's a goose that's like that.

32:27

And so she puts it in and she comes back like this and I swear

32:29

to God the goose is in the same position staring

32:31

at it. And I just think that it

32:33

looks like the goose is just like ahhhhhh.

32:35

It's like a whole evening. It looks so...

32:38

If you're a goose you're like what the fuck is that? What

32:41

is that? Like a spaceship. Yeah. So

32:44

I think don't put merry balls in with you. A bit of wholesome

32:46

content for you. I did put it on Instagram the other day. Obviously

32:49

I was in Yorkshire

32:51

over the old Christmas period and

32:54

on New Year's Day we're driving the road. It's

32:56

very rainy and windy. Horrible weather. It's

32:58

a little bit of a stop because some ducks wanted to

33:00

cross the road. That's lovely. That's

33:02

lovely. It's my favourite road sign actually is a

33:04

little duck crossing. They just went across and... I

33:08

was like... Ducks are

33:10

rapists. Yeah, I know. Well, did I

33:12

tell you about Tim's mum? We went to the... What?

33:16

No, I was just going to get her. No, so

33:18

we visited this... I mean like last year, whatever mating

33:20

season is for ducks, is it spring? I don't know.

33:22

We went to this pond and

33:24

we were just looking at the nice pond and of

33:26

course there was some male

33:29

ducks trying to attack and

33:31

Tim's mum just ran over and battered him. She's like,

33:33

get off her! Leave her. And Tim's like, it's nature.

33:35

She's like, well, I won't stand by and watch now.

33:39

I would be like

33:41

throwing the polar bear a steak mate. I

33:43

can't leave things. And the

33:45

other day we've got... Cockroles got five of the

33:47

twats and now there are four

33:49

of them all coming to maturity. So the oldest

33:52

one for a start is Blinded too, or Blinded,

33:54

one of my chickens and had a go at

33:56

my other favourite one. So she's got bad vision

33:58

and one eye. So I hate it. him

34:01

and then the others are coming to sexual

34:03

maturity which means they're just they're just sexually

34:06

assaulting hens minding their own fucking business

34:08

and I if I see them doing

34:10

it I will pick up the cockcrawler

34:13

and throw it and

34:15

but now I've gathered all the cockcrawls up and I've

34:17

put them on their own field far away because

34:20

cockcrawls if they're not around women don't

34:22

fight they exist quite peacefully okay so

34:24

it's women are the problem is

34:28

it yeah yeah they look

34:30

gang you'll see them getting little leather jacket

34:32

yeah they've got like they still got a

34:35

picking order and a hierarchy but now they're

34:37

just kind of peaceful interesting

34:39

and the women are like oh thank

34:41

God the women are just my own little commune

34:43

I have an lovely time there's

34:45

no fighting everyone's co-workers had a

34:48

fucking break after being pounded but

34:51

you know what that is right yeah it's just like

34:53

a meat bag full of genitals in there what

34:57

I swear to God I heard someone shout my name then is

35:02

there Rachel in the room am I going mental

35:04

I did not hear someone shout your name we're

35:08

gonna have to play back I'm haunted now EVP I

35:10

went on a ghost tour actually in Lincoln something's latched

35:13

on to me that's where we are can't

35:17

believe got a demon for the new year unbelievable also ghost

35:19

tour delivered

35:22

by a woman very very rare isn't it

35:25

all that sort of like ripperology and it's

35:27

interesting isn't it cuz true crime is definitely

35:29

like for the women mm-hmm and

35:31

ghosts and stuff like that so men sort

35:33

of you know taking the lead on that

35:35

one and actually we went on ghost tour

35:37

and Tim said because we've been on every

35:39

ghost tour been on which he hates my

35:42

stress are delivered

35:44

by men but Tim actually said he

35:46

had a very nice manner about her and it

35:49

was nice to have a woman deliver the tour

35:51

oh just say you like a tits same it's

35:53

obvious yes she's very nice later she had like

35:55

a cow on I like

35:57

that love that and she she said I've been

36:00

doing this tour for 23 years I thought wow I

36:02

want to be you when I grow up oh you'd

36:04

be great at that I'd love to do that actually

36:06

I wouldn't hate talking to people I

36:09

think he's zone out right like you're doing your set

36:13

well I don't think she did she was very Anna

36:15

did a video and then which I

36:17

think which looked like it has no bonnet it

36:19

didn't and I said to him look at

36:21

this he's got an orb on it went let me show the

36:23

later so he did like this so he he has a difficult

36:29

relationship with women in university there's a

36:31

few that he sort of takes the

36:33

shine to and it's never reciprocated and

36:35

he gets quite quite

36:38

pushy he sort of creeps a lot of

36:40

women out basically there's one in particular that

36:42

he feels that he's burned by and very

36:44

shortly afterwards when the bomb started so again

36:47

it's another woman that they're trying to blame

36:49

for so he's got it on how shortly

36:51

after because the

36:54

first bombing is in 1978 so how yeah I'm not sure

37:00

it's that so in 1971 that's when he was

37:02

living in a remote cabin and in

37:05

1969 is when he left the universe right so

37:08

why you blame wise yeah it's any excuse isn't

37:10

it so we should say Michigan

37:13

wasn't his first choice by the way the only

37:15

one to offer him a grant and a teaching

37:17

post mm-hmm now he specialized in doesn't show you

37:19

there that he was very very smart and very

37:21

sought after but still working class lab

37:23

needed that money to be able to go into the

37:25

study so enrolled

37:28

at that University in Michigan he

37:31

specialized in complex analysis

37:33

specifically geometric theory no

37:36

idea and a professor there Peter Duran

37:38

said Ted was on you unusual not

37:40

like the other graduate students he said

37:42

he had a drive to discover the

37:44

mathematical truth and

37:47

professor Alan Shields said it wasn't enough

37:49

to say that Ted was smart in

37:51

a great evaluation he was the best

37:53

man he had ever

37:55

seen that denotes that

37:57

there's a woman who was better So

38:00

he hated it. Now something happened.

38:03

So in 1966, he

38:05

says for a few weeks that he

38:07

experienced sexual fantasies of being female and

38:09

considered gender transition. Now he

38:12

changed his mind in the waiting room to see

38:14

a psychologist. He said he went in and

38:16

he just chatted about other things because he changed

38:18

his mind and he never disclosed to the

38:20

psychologist the reasons that he'd made the appointment. And

38:23

he said afterwards he was enraged, right? And

38:25

he said he thought about killing the psychiatrist

38:27

and several other people that he hated. Reasonable.

38:31

He then said he felt disgusted about what

38:33

he said with his uncontrolled

38:35

sexual cravings. But then

38:38

he said this was a major turning point for him and

38:40

he felt like a phoenix from the ashes to new hope.

38:42

Oh and a bit of live-life love at the end there, didn't it? So

38:45

hold on. So he thought that he

38:48

wanted to transition gender to being a

38:50

woman. Yeah. Because he was having intense

38:52

sexual fantasies about

38:55

being a woman. OK. And then when he gets there, he's

38:57

like, oh no, I just... He goes in the waiting room

38:59

and he goes, I'm not sure if I think I've

39:01

changed my mind. He talks about other stuff

39:04

to the psychiatrist who has no

39:06

idea why he's there, by the way. And

39:08

then he pissed off because he's like, I

39:11

guess he'd think, well, he'd pick up on it. Ooh,

39:14

there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on.

39:17

So he has this job and...oh, sorry. I don't know

39:19

why I'm doing this.

39:21

He goes to Berkeley as an

39:23

acting assistant professor. He taught maths. He

39:26

was one of the youngest assistant professors in the

39:28

university history and he was on track for a

39:31

tenure. Is that how you say it? Yeah, tenure.

39:34

He wasn't well liked though. No. And

39:36

he was a shit teacher. He just

39:38

read from books and refused to answer

39:41

questions. That's mad. Well, he

39:43

didn't want the... Basically, he didn't want the job. He

39:45

didn't want to work. What he wanted, he'd got it

39:47

fixed in his mind by then. I just

39:49

want a bit of land. I want to

39:51

remove myself from technology and just go and

39:53

live wild. And so as soon

39:55

as he'd saved up enough money, he handed his notices

39:58

and they were like, but you're going to... you're

40:00

going to be a really important part of this university,

40:02

we've got all this stuff planned for you. They

40:06

couldn't understand why he didn't want to stay and

40:08

he couldn't understand why they wouldn't see that he

40:10

would want to go off. So he

40:12

goes and gets this cabin in

40:15

Lincoln, Montana. Apparently

40:18

in that area it's not actually that unusual

40:20

for people to be quite hermity

40:22

there. Off grid. Exactly.

40:25

Off grid gives me such. Do you know what

40:27

he reminds me of? We were talking about this

40:29

earlier. I absolutely

40:31

hate. There's one intolerance, you know me,

40:33

I'm like aggressively liberal. Here we go.

40:36

Hippies can fucking die. I cannot

40:38

stand hippies. Especially because I can't

40:40

think of any other kind. The

40:43

hippies who are like, yeah just be off grid, I

40:45

don't need part of the system. But

40:48

you still use doctors, you still use

40:50

loads of the parts of the system,

40:52

you still drive on the road. Except

40:54

everyone else has to pay. And

40:56

you still have fucking rich parents. The

41:00

only people who act like that are people who have

41:02

something financially to fall back on, which Ted is. He

41:04

was always taking money from his parents. You

41:06

know about three times a year I say I'm going off grid as a

41:08

threat. I'm sick

41:10

of this mate, I'm going off grid. I

41:13

am, I'm going off grid mate. I do think about that, you know, sometimes. Well

41:16

I live in the middle of nowhere and I'm planning

41:18

to like, for eco reasons, like oh okay well there's

41:20

springs here. I think we could do the water and

41:22

there's enough room for solar panels and things like that.

41:25

And it's not because I don't want the government to

41:27

know what's going on, it's just that there's an environmental

41:29

thing. Can I have a small hut at the end

41:31

of the field? Absolutely. And I

41:33

just bring that bin that the dog has been eating

41:35

out of and I'll make me own sandwiches from it.

41:38

And I'll reuse the tea bags

41:40

and I'll be fine. Would you know, one of the

41:42

reasons why we've got like, this bookcase goes like

41:45

two stories up, it's not full. Is

41:48

because I have got this paranoia, I have

41:50

got some like unibom attendances I think. At

41:52

some point, like I remember reading

41:55

a thing that like if like

41:57

AI becomes sentient, it will... go

41:59

onto the internet where all the

42:02

information is and you won't be

42:04

able to access the internet because it'll just like have

42:06

everything and it'll be really scary. And so I was

42:08

like, I have books are really important to me because

42:10

like if it all goes tits up, okay, well, I

42:12

do have like a book on family

42:15

medicine, you know, like, do you know what I mean? From

42:19

1912. Yeah, it is. It'll be like, there's loads of

42:21

stuff there. Just stop cocaine on the baby's gum and

42:24

it'll be fine. But

42:26

I think of like having a

42:28

physical copy of knowledge is important. Yeah. I know

42:31

that sounds really, Oh, no, no, no, I'm with

42:33

you on this. I will

42:35

learn. I will take in

42:37

more information if I read it on a page in

42:39

a book on a Kindle. I don't

42:41

either scrolling through scrolling through you're taking bits in your

42:43

eyes. Yeah, I think very important.

42:46

Look, you've got a copy of Wilkie Collins, the

42:48

moonstone. Everything's gonna be

42:50

fine. After the funeral by

42:52

Agatha Krista. Everything's gonna be

42:54

alright. Um, yeah, I don't

42:56

know. I do have some of these sort of off grid ease sort

42:58

of tendencies, but also the people I know

43:01

who are like, you know, the

43:03

first step to is no offense and quote,

43:05

Rachel, don't at me a houseboat. Those are

43:07

going now. Can you hear that? I'm like,

43:09

I'll be synchronizing. I can't believe we've synced

43:11

starvation. But you know, I think

43:13

it is it's sort of thinking

43:15

things like that. I just think that's natural. And

43:19

paranoia. No, you're human. Like

43:23

you're a natural human. What instincts

43:25

coming through? I think

43:27

it is, you know, thinking about

43:30

nature and things like that. That

43:32

side of us is there. Yeah.

43:35

And look, I

43:37

genuinely, it's all like, you know, when

43:39

I was younger, you're more about, I

43:42

want this, I need that. And then

43:44

as you get an odd, you like you get more

43:46

in touch with, basically, because you're going back

43:48

into the ground is my opinion. Oh, God, Rachel. No,

43:51

I do think this is this is I think it

43:53

is you start to realize you're part of a system.

43:57

You know, you're at one with the trees, you part of

43:59

the grass. the animals are

44:01

your friends in a way. No,

44:04

why? You're Polka Hummer. No, I do. I

44:07

think it is. You start

44:09

noticing the moon more and all that. Yeah,

44:11

definitely when I was growing up in this

44:13

area, I didn't realise like the mountains were

44:15

there. I just didn't see them

44:17

and things like that. Yeah. Do you

44:19

know what it is as well as living in the countryside? Like I was walking

44:21

the dog this morning and the daffodils are coming

44:24

up. I think it's the third of January. Yeah.

44:27

And I'm like, oh, the seasons are fucked. Well, they know miniex

44:29

are in the shops. Oh my God. There's

44:31

a Tory, Tory and B at the moment,

44:34

who's like, if you think that we should ban miniex

44:36

coming in in January, please write to me because like

44:38

you've got an election coming up, lads. You're

44:40

going to have to really put some other things in the

44:43

crosshairs of the miniex. I love miniex being out in the

44:45

first January because I love miniex. And

44:47

that's what I said. I went, oh, first January, I'm going

44:49

to get myself a bag of miniex. Not done it yet.

44:51

One of the things I miss actually, miniex, of being vegan.

44:53

Oh, miniex. You're making me. No,

44:55

don't. No, I'm not making you run blanks. No,

44:57

I think this is true. I think, you know,

44:59

as you get older, you start to realise that

45:02

the important things in life are not the items

45:04

you get, but the world around you. I

45:06

think I still love the items I get. I'm just buying

45:08

them in wood now and not plastic. I think that's the

45:10

only thing that's changed. That's my idea of being like ethical

45:12

is like, I just spend more and it's made from hemp.

45:15

As I say, with this landfill. Anyway,

45:19

so he buys this, his

45:22

acreage, he's got 1.4 acres, which is

45:24

a football pitch and a half.

45:27

Basically, that's an acre. It's all right. Well,

45:29

I don't think that is very much to maybe because

45:31

I live on a farm, it doesn't feel big, but

45:33

like that's a big garden for one person. Yeah, yeah.

45:35

He can grow his badge there. But

45:37

he doesn't grow anything because it's incredibly harsh

45:39

winters. He lives in a cabin that is

45:41

made from plywood. So

45:44

it must be freezing and it's 10 foot

45:47

by 14 foot. So it's absolutely tiny.

45:49

In fact, the cell he ends up in

45:51

is bigger than the cabin that

45:53

he is living in. The

45:56

only heat is a pot-bellied stove

45:58

in there. Oh

46:01

my god, is that stove shaming? Awful.

46:05

You can't even be like a

46:07

stove without people commenting on your figure. He

46:10

has lots of books there about

46:12

wilderness survival and chemistry and the

46:14

other things when they find the

46:16

cabin and go through it. And they fully

46:18

remove the cabin. First they take like

46:21

700 items out of it and then they remove the actual

46:23

cabin and put it. And I think

46:25

it's in a Ripley's Believe It or Not somewhere. Why? We'll

46:28

check that and we'll confirm that later on. So

46:31

he bought this land on basically a mountain

46:33

side. Now there's a really interesting interview

46:35

with one of his neighbours who said, I knew him

46:38

as well after 25 years as I did

46:40

after the first five minutes of meeting him.

46:42

So he kept himself to himself. He kind

46:45

of... Good. More people should

46:47

be like that. I like everyone knowing everyone's business,

46:49

you know. No. I mean fair

46:51

play to my dad, know nothing about him. Genuinely

46:53

part of the family. I think your dad might

46:55

be a spy. Do you know what? We've

46:58

said that. I would not be surprised

47:00

if he was. I would have missed

47:02

it. We've said this actually. The

47:05

perfect cover for it is that you

47:07

just drive coaches. Drive coaches. Yeah.

47:10

Don't, you know. I'm off around the country. His family

47:13

know nothing about him. You know, you're very bright. Like,

47:15

you know, I'm not thinking mum is him, but like,

47:17

you know, you clearly got brains from

47:19

both sides. So I think he's a spy mate. My

47:22

dad is definitely not the brains in the family. He's

47:25

very much list and shouting.

47:29

Lifts and shouting. Lifts and shouting. That's

47:32

what my dad says. He used to...

47:35

So he didn't really get on with his neighbours.

47:37

There was one in particular that he hated called

47:39

Butch Gering. Gering, I think it might

47:41

be pronounced. Who had a sawmill.

47:44

So he basically would... He was a logger. And

47:46

he hated it because he was like, it's a pollution. It's

47:49

a noise pollution. It's polluting air.

47:51

So he was kind of very

47:53

eco-minded. In a time when people

47:55

weren't, if you think in the 60s, yes, there were

47:57

sort of hippies, but 60, 70... the

48:00

80s people weren't really thinking about the environment in a

48:02

way that we are now. So

48:04

he hated this all male being close

48:06

by, but he also used to sneak

48:08

into this guy's yard and steal loads

48:11

of bits from the cars at night

48:13

and use them in his bombs that

48:15

he was making and experimenting with. So this is

48:18

another thing that I couldn't imagine. Well,

48:20

it is. He also had handmade guns. So it's

48:22

like it'll be like a normal barrel and like

48:24

a, you know, like a whatever that

48:26

bit's called. Oh, no, that's a barrel. And

48:29

then one of those things to put the bullets in. What

48:31

about that? A barrel. Is it

48:33

all called a barrel? It's just a barrel. Yeah. Right.

48:38

on like plywood and

48:40

then a trigger. So it's very weird. These are all

48:43

season-made properties. I had all these homemade wooden guns. You

48:45

just reminded me actually, do you know what my favorite,

48:47

genuinely, do you know what my favorite Christmas present was?

48:50

Go on. A reusable deodorant. Reusable. One

48:52

that you get the case and then you just buy the re-fill. Oh,

48:55

yeah, they're great. Genuine favorite Christmas presents. Are

48:58

you allowed to say what brand you got? I'm

49:00

interested. It's fussy. Oh, yeah. Is it

49:02

good? Does it work? Love it.

49:05

So, mum got everyone one. Oh, that's good.

49:07

And I... Do you hear that?

49:09

Wow. A war's coming.

49:12

Love it. Genuinely,

49:15

I thought that is so useful and

49:17

that's changed for me now. I'll just

49:20

use that. Right. Natural deodorants. Let's

49:22

get into it. I am a big... I always

49:24

want to use things that are like natural products.

49:26

I have tried so many natural deodorants and some

49:28

of them are like, there's this rock that you

49:31

rub under your eye and a full moon. Or

49:33

there's one that I got from... Lush one was all right but it

49:35

would dry out very quickly. Another one

49:37

gave me a massive rash under my arms and I

49:39

don't really get rashes and stuff. There's two that I

49:41

found that work. One is made by

49:43

a brilliant comedian actually

49:45

called Beth Granville. Her mum makes this. She just

49:48

bangs it out. It's really good. But it's

49:51

like she lives in Cardiff so it's not so hard to

49:53

get it. And there's another one called Bear that is really

49:55

nice. Where people are like, what perfume's that? And I'm like,

49:57

it's my dear Odryne. Wow. But so many

49:59

people... I just think it you

50:01

can't run the risk with deodorants. No, I agree. It's

50:04

a commitment, isn't it? But I did say as well

50:06

I said that the test of this and I because

50:08

I men do swear I think more than women

50:10

Yeah, they stink man. Let's be honest. No, I

50:13

mean you smell delightful. It's a different smell. Yeah

50:15

It's a different smell and I said to Tim

50:17

said it was like don't use this

50:19

I like just use it I said if it

50:21

works for you then and it's working for me.

50:23

Try it. Yeah very

50:26

good Smell,

50:28

but you know, I think that natural

50:30

deodorants they don't stop you sweating but

50:32

they like neutralize the stuff Right, so

50:34

you still will get like wet if

50:36

you know, I'm yes, but you won't

50:39

Well, I'm not a massive sweater on the

50:41

underarm Show off and

50:43

I tell you why I used a

50:46

product called Rickle is a god

50:48

because I used to sweat a lot of medical

50:51

and you put it under your arms and it

50:53

blocks you your glancy You think he can't sweat?

50:56

But since then I've I don't know if it's psycho it

50:58

must have been psychological to sweat in So

51:01

when I wasn't sweating I wasn't thinking about it and now I

51:03

don't sweat as much as I used to Well,

51:06

that makes sense because you have clearly like a psychological

51:08

anxiety anxiety, yeah, and

51:11

Just you see you've dubbed the old room that

51:13

was the only one he is but I'm telling

51:15

you a favorite Christmas present It's just changed. I

51:17

just I just think it's a nice product It

51:20

smells nice I Would

51:26

never thought of buying one and I think

51:28

that was a really nice gift from Tim's lovely gift

51:30

Okay, give me right you lot fucking stink No,

51:34

I think it's a great gift. I got

51:36

I got calf from taro I got her

51:38

the the idea that I use the bear.

51:40

It's called bear. It's a Welsh brand. Yeah.

51:42

Yeah, it's brilliant Well, obviously this is not

51:44

genuinely not sponsored by anything if I do

51:46

want to sponsor us bring it on

51:49

I will talk about it all day. Obviously don't

51:51

send us any more send us the refills because

51:53

we've already got the Thing I

51:55

haven't got anything. Yeah, then do one and

51:57

the I just think it's a fantastic product

51:59

and yeah as I say I'm

52:01

not getting any money for this I just

52:03

think it was a lovely thoughtful Christmas

52:05

present and I thought

52:08

that's really good that that'll change I've got loads

52:10

of books over Christmas that I like about green

52:12

living and make like making your own cleaning products

52:15

and making your own laundry detergent things like that

52:17

that I'm very into and one of them is

52:19

make your own deodorant and I'm like I feel

52:21

like that's a hard line for me what do

52:24

you make from bicarbonate soldering some other stuff yes

52:26

and I ever written things like that and yeah

52:28

and coconut oil so

52:30

you like because I tell you what the one I

52:32

use from the girl in Cardiff her mum who makes

52:35

it Maria and it's coconut oil

52:37

or something else like my pits have never

52:39

looked so good like they're really soft and

52:41

sometimes they get ingrowing hairs that stops oh

52:43

well there you go there you go anyway

52:46

what we're talking about natural deodorant okay which I don't

52:48

think he used any no I can smell him from

52:50

the pictures yeah so he's the house himself to the

52:52

wrecks of blood the reason that he used to do

52:54

that which we'll get to in a bit what why

52:57

he used to look he couldn't tell when he

52:59

been away or not so he would

53:02

make sure that before he planted a bomb he

53:04

would make sure I'll send a bomb or you

53:06

know whatever he's doing he would make sure that

53:08

he was seen around the town and

53:10

he would always have a long beard he

53:13

would be covered in dirt it would be

53:15

smelling dirt so everyone be like to have

53:17

your fucking stinks and then the day

53:20

he was going to leave a bomb or post

53:22

a bomb he'd shave clean himself

53:24

up put his sunglasses on nice little

53:26

hoodie and off he'd

53:28

go so people and then he'd

53:31

go back into his hut

53:33

and then grow the beard yeah so they never

53:35

really knew when he was there when he went

53:37

so he was basically creating his own alibis and

53:40

creating so if he was ever spotted and

53:42

someone said the guy is this description

53:44

they'd be like well Ted doesn't look

53:46

anything like that so it's pretty smart

53:49

and so yeah he'd go around into

53:51

people's yards at night because there's lots of wrecked cars

53:53

and he would steal bits from them butch's

53:56

daughter it

53:58

says that she keeps coming to a parent's room going, I could

54:01

hear something or someone rooting around outside. There's someone outside

54:03

my room and they were like, there's no one outside

54:05

your room, go back to bed. And all the time

54:07

it was it was Ted. He was stealing

54:09

bits from the car to make his bombs. And

54:11

you know, there's a really chilling story about Butch's

54:14

wife, Wendy, is out and about with

54:16

a little girl. I'm so sorry, I can't remember. I don't

54:18

think I've written her name down. For

54:20

Junior. Butch Junior. She's out and about with

54:22

a little girl. And there's some

54:24

small trees. They're about like three foot high.

54:26

And so the little girls playing in the

54:28

trees while the mum is receding

54:30

some land. And all of a sudden,

54:33

everything goes really quiet. And

54:35

she's like, the atmosphere just changed. And I

54:37

thought, oh, there's a mountain lion watching us.

54:39

So she calls the daughter back and then

54:41

she goes back in. And she's

54:43

like, it always stuck in my mind. And then

54:45

she mentioned it to like the FBI when he

54:47

was arrested. And he had this coded diary that

54:49

he wrote in and he wrote in at that time,

54:52

that he saw her scattering these seeds and then the

54:54

little girl and he had a gun on her. He

54:56

had a gun trained on the little girl. And he

54:58

was like, he said, I could have I could have

55:00

killed the little bitch is what he said. But then

55:03

the what was it? Yeah, I could have taken the little

55:06

bitch out, but then the big bitch might get away. So

55:09

he this whole thing about I

55:11

just hate technology and hate him. But like,

55:13

what is that little girl playing in some

55:15

trees? Like, he is just a twat of

55:17

the highest order. He's a horrible man. He's

55:20

pushing espousing these views. I think

55:23

he does believe but like he's hiding behind

55:25

them because he's a nihilist. Absolutely. He also

55:27

because he was fed up with sort of

55:29

industrial and real estate development near his home.

55:32

It was influenced by an anarchist philosopher

55:34

called Jacques Elloux. He

55:36

began vandalizing construction sites near his

55:38

home. And he what he

55:40

was angry about, mostly, he

55:43

said that humans were being led

55:45

away from nature and towards surrogate

55:47

activities like popular entertainment and sport.

55:49

And he was trying to urge

55:51

humans to return to wild nature.

55:53

This is why he wrote his manifesto.

55:55

Yeah, which we'll get to he he

55:58

destroyed lots of things he was So

56:00

he poured sand in the sawmill of butch

56:02

garings and so it went through the system

56:04

and it broke every single part of it and

56:06

it cost loads of money to repair. But

56:09

they never suspected it was, well they were like

56:11

maybe it's Ted because he hates, they

56:14

had a real sort of, they hated each other. But

56:16

it was like it could be anyone, they thought maybe it was

56:19

kids. There was also a

56:21

cabin near his where some

56:23

people used to go along the track that you're not

56:25

meant to go along on motorbikes and then they would,

56:27

they had a little cabin there. And

56:29

when they were away from it, he took an axe

56:31

to it and he caught a whole, he smashed

56:34

through the side of the building and

56:36

then he took a monkey wrench

56:38

and he smashed up everything inside the building and he

56:41

picked a monkey wrench because he was like everyone in

56:43

the area has a monkey wrench so it's not, you

56:45

know, if they find one it's no big deal. And

56:48

then he shat in the bath. No

56:51

need for that. You know what that is though? Go

56:54

on. That's adrenaline. You

56:57

know it's very common in house break-ins that

56:59

they will shit in the bath or they

57:01

will shit in the house because when someone

57:03

breaks into your house they get this rush

57:05

of adrenaline and they're like oh I need

57:07

to have a shit and they'll often just

57:09

do it wherever. It's fucking

57:11

insane. Do you know what

57:13

my grandmother called him? Go on. A

57:15

destructive little madam. That's

57:18

what she's got. If we did anything

57:20

remotely, you know, if you just knock

57:22

something up, you destructive little madam. That's

57:24

what it is. Well

57:27

he is interviewed by the police about

57:30

this crime, about this destruction. Visuals. He's

57:32

like what did you have to eat?

57:34

Have you had sweet corn recently? There's

57:38

lots of nuts and berries in it. I

57:40

think it's dead. And he was like

57:42

no gosh that's awful. Like I can't think

57:44

who would have done it. And they asked the

57:47

neighbours specifically they said what about this Ted guy?

57:49

He's a bit weird. And they

57:51

said you know what he is weird but he

57:53

wouldn't do anything like this. And it was the

57:55

neighbours vouching for him that meant that he wasn't

57:58

On the police's radar. The thing

58:00

because with lots of serial killers, you find that.

58:03

They. Have been on the places right

58:05

out before for as iris of the

58:07

things he was just completely unknown. There

58:09

was no real please contact other than

58:12

this prior to him being arrested for

58:14

the crimes that there is there is

58:16

a period as well so he he

58:18

starts making these bombs in ah his

58:20

shed and a very so crude a

58:23

uses that for. Like. Dynamite to

58:25

make them explosive. he's as much head

58:27

so brutal not very low powered bomb

58:29

the always in a wouldn't casing that

58:31

sort of a a signature of has

58:34

an some point he starts to get

58:36

hold of very explosive and. At.

58:38

Like materials like actual of bomb

58:40

making stuff. And. This

58:42

is in it is because he go through

58:45

say it does doesn't bombs and then they

58:47

think he's in jail because he goes quiet

58:49

for seven years. Raise an eyebrow raiser Yeah

58:51

and so in the bit where he's quiet

58:53

the neighbors start hearing every now and then

58:56

massive explosions that like shake the mountain and

58:58

never have some on must be in. I

59:00

like quarrying or snakes and they never suspect

59:02

that it's Ted and like only I know

59:04

Yosemite Sam was immediately yes and they never

59:07

they never a clock. The with Ted he

59:09

was experimenting and he was making bigger bigger

59:11

explosions. See got so frustrated. That the

59:13

bombs that he was sending weren't killing anyone

59:16

in that was his aim which is Suzie

59:18

to Congress sick so that's his or childhood

59:20

and the cabin years and the leading up

59:22

on now I would say we did the

59:24

next upset about the bombs Will did bombs

59:27

next. That said will be.

59:29

The. Bomb. You. Welcome! Where

59:31

are we sending bombs and you've listened?

59:33

Tickets for ah, ten year anniversary to

59:35

move are on sale now. Not money

59:37

left all killer. No filler.com You can

59:39

get sick is and I was that

59:41

in Glasgow. In. Mma yes in a

59:43

must see venue but it selling brilliant. We got

59:46

into some read a huge venue like Cod if

59:48

and at least have already sold out and nor

59:50

it's totally so that I am out in the

59:52

littler said lisa sell out will have lights and

59:54

and why did that did a peace sign if

59:57

you're listening and and filth or less and the

59:59

you will ring. when I'm old.

1:00:01

Oh yeah, you love a thumbs up.

1:00:03

My Ringo. No,

1:00:07

no one's like, God, I just want to be Ringo when I'm

1:00:09

older. I mean, actually, yeah, you're the

1:00:11

most famous band in the world and you fuck a

1:00:13

bongo. It's all right, isn't it?

1:00:16

My two favourite things I want

1:00:18

from 2024 I'm manifesting. You

1:00:20

can also get merch. Yes, all children

1:00:23

are filler.com. Tickets are

1:00:25

on sale. Not many left. Be quick if you

1:00:27

want to join us. Your tour is on sale.

1:00:30

Also, we've gone into some very big venues

1:00:32

and so the plan was for us to

1:00:34

like, oh, we'll sell the stores out and

1:00:36

hopefully next level, but we're going into the

1:00:38

like third level that we never expected to,

1:00:40

which is absolutely amazing. So I think we'd

1:00:42

have it. That's happening for Manchester and Glasgow

1:00:44

and things like that. Hackney Empire. Hackney Empire.

1:00:46

Yeah, we're right in the gods, which is

1:00:48

so lovely. Yeah, we're really excited. My tour

1:00:50

is on sale. I start in May at

1:00:52

the McEntreles Comedy Festival. A couple

1:00:55

of days sold out already, which is lovely.

1:00:57

Thank you to Chester. Thank you to Manchester.

1:00:59

There's another Manchester date in a very exciting

1:01:01

venue going to be announced soon.

1:01:04

I have nothing to report. I've

1:01:07

done for the year. I'm 20, 24.

1:01:10

No, you're doing a new show, aren't you? I'm

1:01:12

working on a new show. My partner's really excited

1:01:14

about it. I'm working on a new show, but

1:01:16

I did a preview in Leicester, which I think is

1:01:18

nearly sold out. The Manchester one sold out. No fucking pressure

1:01:20

now. Time's creeping up. I thought I've got plenty of time.

1:01:22

I've not. But yeah,

1:01:24

but that's all got nothing to say. There's

1:01:27

nothing. Just this. Nothing. Just this. To be

1:01:29

honest, I'm quite happy. She gestured at me

1:01:31

then. I'm quite happy to

1:01:33

just have a few weeks of just, you

1:01:35

know, mate, you've been constantly working for two years.

1:01:37

I've not been home since the 19th of December. I

1:01:39

haven't mentioned this. I thought you were going to say

1:01:41

since 1994. I don't

1:01:44

feel like. I'm like scared of going home. I

1:01:46

always, every way from home for so long that

1:01:48

you have these thoughts in your head that moths

1:01:50

have taken over the whole house. No, I have

1:01:52

a thing that like, there'll be a man in

1:01:54

my heart. That's what I always think things like.

1:01:56

Well, you said moths, Rachel. A moth man. Ha

1:01:59

ha ha. The most man

1:02:01

would be living in my house. To

1:02:04

the point where I'll sometimes film as I come

1:02:06

in the house. Really? Yeah, yeah. I

1:02:09

remember one Christmas I came back from wherever

1:02:11

I'd been and I came back and the oven

1:02:13

was warm. I was like, oh my

1:02:15

god someone's been living in my house over Christmas, can't be

1:02:18

doing this. And I

1:02:20

just realised I just love the oven. A

1:02:23

lovely way to end things. Thanks so

1:02:26

much for listening, for watching. We

1:02:28

will see you back with part two

1:02:30

of the Unabomber.