0:00

Welcome to edition 105, 105

0:02

part 2 of our Killenau

0:04

Philip podcast with me Rachel

0:07

Fairburn and

0:25

Carooper John McLean. Just before we start

0:28

we'll do our usual disclaimer. This

0:30

isn't hero worship, we're doing this podcast because in which

0:32

we're interested in serial killers and since we are doing

0:34

this podcast it stops us from writing to them in

0:36

prison. Yes part 2 of

0:38

our episode on the Unabomber. It's February now. Yes,

0:40

it's February now. Same clothes on, weird. We're

0:43

er, we're regarding this back

0:45

to back after part 1. Do

0:48

we want to start with a ghost? Yeah, because I'm

0:50

telling you something happened right? So I'm sitting here and

0:53

oh we may have kept this in, I'm not sure. I

0:55

swear to God I heard somebody

0:58

say my name. Owen listened

1:00

to it back and he said I

1:02

can hear something but it's like a phone

1:05

going off and if it is kept in you'll be

1:07

able to see it or hear it. You

1:09

look over there and look at your phone and I look over because I

1:11

thought I heard something so it just was your phone going off. No but

1:13

I had nothing on my phone. There

1:16

was no notification on the phone. And then I

1:18

said, because I live in the very old farmhouse,

1:21

but I didn't even realise what I was saying is, I

1:23

said oh to be fair this is the only building I've ever felt something

1:25

like that. You know when I've been in here a couple of

1:27

times. And what have you heard? Someone say my

1:29

name in my ear. Thank you. But. So

1:32

you've never told me about that before? No. I

1:35

heard somebody say my name

1:37

and it sounded like they were here but

1:39

also muffled and at first I

1:41

thought it was your partner. I

1:43

don't know why like he might. Yeah I want to know

1:45

why actually. Yeah. But it sounded like

1:48

a man's voice and I

1:51

heard it and then you've now just told

1:53

me this? Yeah.

1:55

But weird I didn't even think about that.

1:58

But yeah. I mean it was. your

2:00

phone because I saw you pick it up. No,

2:03

there was no notification on it. It was

2:05

once, but

2:08

there was nothing there. So... I

2:11

don't know, maybe we've summoned a girl. Another thing to

2:13

worry about.

2:16

Great. We can have a correspondence section in this

2:18

thing because actually some people who got in contact

2:20

with some brilliant things, can I start with mine

2:23

first? Yes, of course, go ahead. I'm going to

2:25

read you a message that we got on the

2:27

O'Kilen of Philip Page. Brilliant.

2:30

I'm going to reveal who it is

2:32

after the first paragraph. So evening ladies,

2:34

I came across your podcast by sheer

2:36

accident and my attention was drawn to

2:38

the episode regarding Ivan Malat. You remember

2:40

the serial killer? Ivan Malat? Ivan

2:43

Malat? He

2:46

goes on to say, may I say

2:48

it was refreshing to hear a humorous

2:50

side to such a dreadful chapter in

2:52

my brother's life. This message is from

2:55

Simon Onions, brother of Paul Onions. Unbelievable.

2:57

He says, the part where you discuss

2:59

the ridiculous Brummie accent played by the

3:01

actor in the one documentary is hilarious

3:03

because we and close friends and family

3:05

have also seen the episode, have also

3:08

pissed ourselves listening to him,

3:10

especially as Paul is from the black country

3:12

and got a real sick accent. It's really

3:14

funny because you're laughing because you're from

3:16

the black country and they're doing Brummie. I probably

3:19

just did the wrong one then. You're like hilarious.

3:21

He doesn't sound like that. It's from the black

3:23

country. Simon Paul, everyone thinks you

3:25

sound the same. I'm really sorry. Everyone thinks

3:27

that you sound like Brummies or like they

3:29

all think it's one accent. It's also funny

3:31

that the character in the doc is a

3:34

six foot beanpole, yet my brother and the

3:36

rest of us spring onions are

3:38

more like the lollipop man out of the wizard

3:40

of Oz. I just wanted to say it's a

3:42

refreshing change to hear it put across in different

3:44

way and some may be offended, but I for

3:46

one am not. Myself and Paul know that humour

3:48

is the best tonic for staying healthy and he

3:50

sure lives life to the full after going through

3:52

such a dark episode in his life. Good to

3:55

hear. Simon, you've signed off with. Thank you

3:57

so much. lovely

4:00

message to get. Yeah, in fact I just wrote,

4:02

I haven't messaged him back. We'll sort him out

4:04

comps to Birmingham. Oh yes! We're messaging back. Yeah,

4:06

yeah. And then he said, oh when you next

4:08

come in and then we were sorting it out

4:10

so I'll message him. Well hopefully we'll

4:12

see you there Simon. In Birmingham, lovely. What

4:15

else have we got in the post box? Maybe we'll

4:17

get him a drink afterwards and he'd be a pickled

4:19

onion. No. Fucking

4:23

hell. She's trying to be

4:25

nice. This is from Nicole. I'm not

4:27

going to give her a drink. She

4:29

might not want me to. Hi, Kieran Rachel. Love

4:32

the pod. Strong start. I

4:34

live about 45 minutes from Fall River

4:36

and I went to the Lizzie Borden house

4:38

on Halloween 2022. In a lot

4:40

of ways it was a great little museum, except

4:43

they don't have Andrew Borden's picture hung over

4:45

the couch. They, listen,

4:48

they have you sit around the table and

4:50

just pass the cry to scene photos around.

4:52

What? That's worse than what I

4:54

thought it was. Couch is still very creepy. There

4:57

were some people on what was ostensibly

4:59

a regular history tour trying to manufacture

5:02

their own ghost tour. We were up

5:04

in the attic and they held up

5:06

their ghost gizmo and started yelling, oh

5:08

my god, there's an electromagnetic field here.

5:10

They were just standing directly under an

5:12

outlet. The tour guide just

5:14

went, well, the veil is thin I guess.

5:18

In the basement they insist you can see a

5:20

ghost face if you take a picture of this

5:22

cement wall. Everyone around me insisted they could see

5:25

a ghost face. I just see a cement wall.

5:27

Merry Christmas. Thanks for all you do. Nicole

5:30

in Boston. Nicole, I really like the sound

5:32

of you and the cut of your jib.

5:34

Yeah. But I will say you sound like

5:36

my partner who will gleefully get

5:38

involved with things like that and go along to, you

5:41

know, ghost hunts or history walks or something like that

5:43

and then spend 45 minutes to two hours

5:46

debunking it all in the hotel or in the house. Oh,

5:48

see, Tim's like that. That's what he did on the ghost

5:50

tour in Lincoln. But they still come on them all. Yeah,

5:53

and they still want to be centre of attention. Not that

5:55

you view them at all. Oh look, I'm looking

5:58

for the face in the wall here. That

6:02

is that Men of the Faith? That's

6:04

some bad plaster in there. I

6:08

can't see anything myself. Thank

6:11

you for that. Do you want to switch around in case we can see?

6:13

I don't think we'll be able to push in. Oh,

6:15

we'll just show it. Thanks, Owen. So,

6:18

thank you so much for getting in contact.

6:22

If you would like to speak to

6:24

us, actually you can. It's the

6:26

best way is email, right?

6:28

Yeah, email us. Or [email protected].

6:30

Yes. Why not? Yeah, sure.

6:32

Do check that, Owen, and pop up what the

6:34

actual one is at the bottom. Do

6:37

email us with, you

6:39

know, stuff like that. There's other stuff you send in.

6:41

Lovely bit of fun in love. Some other stuff.

6:44

Oh, that's good. We've

6:47

had one before, it's guys like, yeah, I see what

6:49

you girls are trying to do, but what you really

6:52

need is someone with some insight, and I have been

6:54

researching this in my own time for seven years, and

6:56

I'm happy to come on the podcast. I'm like, well,

6:58

we are happy to block you on every available format

7:01

that there is. We once got an email, I don't

7:03

know if I ever showed you, but when

7:05

I'd been on... I only see them when

7:07

they're a complaint that you want me to deal with. When I'd

7:10

been on House of Games, somebody

7:12

wrote in to slag off someone

7:15

else who was on it with us. What? Who's

7:18

actually a mate of ours. And

7:21

I went, you do know that we

7:23

are all friends, and I think it's absolutely obnoxious

7:26

for you to message us slagging

7:28

off another performer. They

7:30

never got back. Who

7:33

was the person I saw now? Oh.

7:36

Lovely guy. Beat that out, what

7:38

are you doing? Thank you. Really great

7:40

person. Good comedian, great

7:42

comedian, lovely guy. I mean, it would be really

7:44

easy because you'll probably be the only two comics

7:46

on it, right? Yes.

7:49

Beat that out. Be

7:53

about comedians, it just sounds like you're saying... Yeah.

7:56

So, just stuff like that,

7:58

you know... It's funny because

8:00

I always think this is about comedians. We're

8:03

very bitchy and we do have our fucking

8:05

yeah, yeah But thicker thieves in it. Oh

8:08

We're I will there's people I'll defend that I

8:10

don't even like if someone tries to agree I've

8:12

got friends who like I definitely have loads of

8:14

in common with comedically, but they're not comics And

8:16

I've heard them slag off a comic. I think

8:18

is shit. I'm like no no no no you

8:20

don't get to do that Like yeah, cuz you

8:22

haven't got on stage. Yeah, they put the work

8:24

in they do the graft. They've been they're going

8:26

round and Fucking

8:28

track as well. I don't need

8:30

to hit obviously be that I don't need

8:32

to hear it from you Yeah, I hate

8:34

that kind of stuff shall we carry on

8:36

with the uni bomber. We're on to the

8:38

bomb section the bomb section

8:42

So he's living in his little hook. Yes.

8:44

He goes down to the little town It's

8:46

tiny. It's tiny of Lincoln, and there's a

8:48

really really Iniscule

8:51

library and in this library he uses

8:53

he uses it as a reference to

8:56

find different addresses and

8:58

papers and research by people because the

9:00

victims one of the reasons why so

9:02

hard to find is the victims are

9:05

Tenuously linked so they're kinder to do

9:07

with science and technology and yeah and

9:09

air not errors in my

9:12

airplanes and things like that and So

9:14

that people like I don't know how he's picking these

9:16

people and it was he was going to this tiny

9:18

library and checking out These are not just books and

9:21

finding their detail if anything it just how useful libraries

9:23

are and how important they can be Pre-pre-the

9:26

basically the I mean there's

9:28

part of me that has to sort of recognize if

9:30

you are anti-technology And you're trying to track people down

9:32

to start to send them like malicious post He's

9:35

doing it all pre-google like he's really he's

9:37

really putting the work in his name. Absolutely

9:40

is The first bomb

9:43

occurs on May the 25th 1978 So

9:47

a passerby is walking around

9:49

in Chicago Circle

9:51

campus in at the University of Illinois

9:54

and they see a package addressed and

9:56

stamped So it's been sent and

9:58

the package had been No, it

10:00

hasn't. Okay, so what they thought that the

10:02

time is confusing me. So what it is

10:04

is the investigation realized they're like hold

10:07

on You've got this this bomb in a package.

10:09

It's got the postage on it ready But it's

10:11

just sat by the post box and they realized

10:13

it didn't go in So he's

10:15

made it all and then got there and gone Yeah, well

10:17

run the box and I don't go like get it signed

10:19

for or anything like that or go into the post office

10:22

Ah, okay. That is why you have this

10:24

perfectly packaged labeled Bomb outside

10:26

of the post box, but then because it's got

10:28

the address on it is taken Yes, so the

10:30

the person that is meant for and you know

10:32

what God loves a royal mail for doing that.

10:34

Absolutely post office My

10:39

I have a very good relationship with my postman and

10:42

he is Since

10:44

they've been bought out it Absolutely awful the

10:46

way they treat them and they've they've said

10:49

all you can get 500 pound bonus this

10:51

year And they were like if you hit all

10:53

your if you hit your target in your region You'll get 250 quid

10:56

if the cold country plays everything before Christmas.

10:58

You'll get another 250 quid Anyway,

11:01

people started they started hitting it and they never thought

11:03

they did they were all working out of it. So

11:05

they Banned over time

11:07

so they couldn't hit it and then got rid of the

11:09

bonus You

11:12

bastard Big

11:14

scandal the documentaries. Oh my god about the

11:17

guy who said did know and there's horrific

11:19

so many people Was it the

11:21

system that they were using it was so

11:23

bad. It's Paul guys Yeah, basically the computerized

11:25

system and it kept it wouldn't it was

11:28

really fancy and then he would phone

11:30

them and go it Cut you know, but it's not the

11:32

money is not People that this

11:34

is yeah postmasters. Yeah, the postmaster go the money isn't

11:36

going through it's not showing up and they were fine

11:38

You just you've got to close the system. Otherwise, you

11:40

can't open tomorrow. You've got to clear the system So

11:42

they kept clearing it they knew it was going wrong

11:44

And then what they did is they turned round to

11:46

these postmasters and they charge them for hundreds of thousands

11:49

of pounds worth of fraud And they wrote

11:51

this one guy who had didn't think they

11:54

just ruined his life I'm really glad there's

11:56

a documentary about about four people taking their

11:58

own lives from that fucking awful Everyone

12:01

in their local community thought they were thieves

12:03

and they were stealing from everyone when it

12:05

was absolute bullshit and they knew that it

12:07

was the computers and they just

12:09

threw money at it and wasted their time in the

12:11

courts until it all came out. See,

12:14

computers, because in skips might not

12:16

actually be wrong. But

12:18

also it's humans who are making the decision to do

12:20

the evil thing, right? Yeah.

12:23

Wow, being profound. The

12:26

package was taken

12:28

to the person it was meant for,

12:30

who was Professor Buckley Christ, Jr. He

12:32

was like, I don't know what this parcel

12:35

is, and he called security. Likey

12:37

style. What a suspicious guy. Pre-9-11,

12:40

Donald. Hold up for a present. Nobody likes me. Something's

12:43

wrong here. I've not been

12:45

on Amazon in days. So

12:48

they called the security officer, Terry Marker,

12:50

who opens it and it

12:53

exploded. And he was injured, Terry

12:55

Marker. So. Well,

12:57

it partially detonates, but it's incredibly,

13:00

it's described as being a clumsy bomb. So

13:03

for a start, I mean, this is a Hallmarker

13:05

stuff. It's encased in wood, cheap wood as well.

13:07

They always mention it. It's very cheap wood. So

13:10

it's got wooden ends to it. It's the one

13:12

that's full of match heads. So I mean, even

13:14

if you collect a lot of match heads, it's

13:16

still not a big explosion. But

13:18

it's just a crude implement. And this is, I mean,

13:20

we're just going to talk about the bombs in this

13:22

episode. And I would say that

13:24

this episode will be a testament to

13:27

if at first you don't succeed because give

13:30

him his dues. He's a try. May

13:32

9th, 1979. Northwestern

13:35

University, Illinois. John Harris, who was a

13:37

graduate researcher, suffered shock and burns when

13:39

a cigar box exploded. The box had

13:41

been made to look like a present

13:44

and it was left in a room used

13:46

by grad students. A dirty trick. It

13:50

is a dirty trick though. What, to leave something

13:52

looks like a present? Yeah. Well,

13:55

also who's the kind of person that goes, I'll

13:58

open that. Yeah,

14:00

I bet there's some social experiment about

14:03

that. There's a present left in a

14:05

room that, you know, several people use and it's

14:07

not addressed to anybody who would

14:09

be the person. Yeah. The person that

14:11

opened it. Find the experiment, I think, and

14:13

then they... I

14:15

would never open it. I wouldn't even think

14:17

of it. I think if it was like a few of

14:20

us sat around, I'd be like, should we just open that?

14:22

Like, I could do it as a team, but I would

14:24

never do it on my own. The problem is now that

14:26

we've done this, I wouldn't... Really? No,

14:28

I'd go outside while someone else opened it. Just in case

14:30

it was a ghost. I'd be

14:32

like, well, no, I just feel like I'm going to get on a bus a

14:34

mile away, I'll ring you when I'm there, and then you open it.

14:37

So, yeah, no address on it. It's

14:39

like cigar box size. It's basically a

14:42

rudimentary pipe bomb inside. Again,

14:44

it's described as being very amateur.

14:47

They're using the powder from fireworks

14:49

in it. Now,

14:51

he had rights about all of

14:53

these bombs. We know they're all

14:56

down to him because he writes

14:58

in code in a diary using

15:00

just numbers. And

15:02

then within the...it just looks like a row

15:04

of numbers, almost like a completed Sudoku. And

15:07

all of those numbers correspond to

15:09

words and letters. And the code is hidden

15:12

within...so the key for it is hidden

15:14

within the thing. So he keeps him at

15:16

it to his record, but

15:18

it's anyone who looked at it would

15:20

be like, this is just random numbers.

15:24

Now, in this diary

15:26

he says that he wants to

15:28

blind Mame or at least blow someone's hands

15:31

off. He says, oh, well, you live and

15:33

learn. So from the beginning, his thing is

15:35

to... He wants to hand people.

15:37

Yeah, and not cause it...because think about

15:39

all the bombs he sends to

15:42

all those different people. And

15:44

it takes that length of time to send

15:46

the manifesto. Whereas what you

15:48

would do is go send the manifesto and go, I'm

15:50

going to start doing bombs until you start doing this.

15:52

So actually all he wanted to do is hurt people.

15:54

Yeah, he did that fathomable. And then I think he's

15:57

reverse engineering a justification. Yeah, he's a horrible cunt. So,

16:00

the FBI don't get involved in any of

16:02

this until the third bomb. I'm not getting

16:04

involved. Do you know what? Nothing

16:07

to do with me. Do

16:09

you know what I fucking hate? When there's

16:11

something like... That happens in

16:13

families where people are like, I'm not getting involved.

16:15

And it's like, by not getting involved, you are

16:17

getting involved. Listen, I'm not getting involved. The only

16:20

thing I'm gonna say is... Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

16:22

Look, it's nothing to do with me. But... Or

16:24

they'll stir the pot and then go, Well, I

16:26

thought you were gonna pay them back for that.

16:28

And you're like, no, because they slur me for... Oh, well, I'm not

16:30

getting involved. Like, well, you just caused the fucking fight now. Well,

16:33

I'm not getting involved. I mean, that's what she said to me.

16:37

Listen, I overheard what was said. And

16:39

I wouldn't repeat it, but... Love

16:42

that kind of shit. Look, it's nothing to

16:44

do with me. I can't, you know... What's it's nothing

16:46

to do with me? I think you look great in them. Look,

16:48

it's not my family. Well,

16:50

I'm not getting involved. I love that hands up. I...

16:53

Nothing to do with me. Tell you what, if it's

16:55

not my family, I'm more interested in getting involved. Oh,

16:58

really? Oh, no, I never get involved.

17:00

Although my in-laws are great. Like...

17:03

Oh, I never get involved. Really? No.

17:05

I never get involved. No, no. I... Yeah,

17:08

I'll happily... There are members of...

17:10

What are in-laws now? It's like your

17:13

partner's family. Yeah. Are

17:15

you getting involved? Well, no, I don't get involved.

17:17

This is because you get involved in... Oh, you mean she gets involved. You

17:19

know what? I tell you what, I want... His

17:22

dad lists to this now, religiously.

17:25

She gets involved. She's

17:27

getting involved. And he said the

17:29

other day, he phoned him and had a chat with him and was

17:31

like... We'd been

17:33

talking about some woman who was poisoning, so he's

17:35

like, are you okay? How's everything?

17:37

I think he thinks that I'm going to

17:40

murder... Listen, David, your son is

17:42

safe with me, I promise. Yeah, that's

17:44

what they all say. I'm not getting involved.

17:47

That'll be at the beginning of the documentary. She

17:52

did a podcast about murder. They'll

17:54

let they know. It's because there's

17:56

nothing to get involved with. They're great. I

18:00

mean like, I wish I could get

18:02

more involved. I think of my family's stuff. But

18:04

sometimes it's like, you know, certain groups of friends

18:06

are a bit chaotic and like, I'm

18:09

not getting involved, but what happened? Really?

18:12

Wow, interesting. Yeah, it

18:14

sounds like something they do, but nothing to do with me.

18:16

You are someone, I've seen you like physically rub your

18:18

hands when you get good gossip.

18:20

Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, yes. You know,

18:23

it's really funny, my sister does that

18:25

as well, so. What's that? Ooh, ooh,

18:27

strap in. Come on, love it. Yeah,

18:30

my family sometimes sends each other just a strap

18:32

in. Like, come on, what is it? What's happened? Anyway,

18:35

November 15th, 1979, American

18:38

Airlines flight, 444, from

18:41

Chicago to Washington, DC. This is

18:43

where the FBI get involved, because you can't go around bombing

18:45

planes. The plane, that was a

18:47

federal offense. You can send bombs to these places, but

18:49

it is a federal offense to bombing aircraft. The

18:52

plane was filled with smoke after

18:54

a bomb detonated in the luggage compartment by,

18:56

the package was sent by air mail. It's

18:59

only a tiny plane as well. It's like an

19:01

80 passenger plane, but it

19:03

makes quite a big, it could have been devastating

19:06

if it had, you know, caught one of the

19:08

tanks or something like that. As it is, there's

19:10

no deaths, it safely lands, but there's 12 people

19:12

who were treated for smoke inhalation, which actually in

19:14

a plane of 80, is quite a lot of

19:16

people. Yeah, that's horrible as well, that's horrible. But

19:18

you know, he's done that. Most people probably might

19:20

have had problems for the rest of their lives

19:22

because of that smoke inhalation. It

19:25

was more sophisticated, this bomb, because what he'd

19:27

done is, he'd used a barometer as sort

19:30

of the trigger for the bomb, because

19:32

he knew that when

19:34

the plane would rise, it would affect the barometer and

19:36

that would move, and then that would hit the contact.

19:39

So it's like, it's again, you can tell he's

19:41

very bright, but he's

19:43

also just using real blue pizza vibes. It's

19:45

like, this week kids, we're going to take

19:47

a barometer and

19:50

put it on the aeroplane. So he's constantly

19:52

experimenting and doing weird and wonderful things. Did

19:54

you ever make any of his blue pizza?

19:57

No, my parents would not have entertained that. No.

20:00

Who never did that either? No. I

20:02

think the island was the big one. That was the big one,

20:05

yeah. It was on the Eterna one.

20:07

Yeah, or the other one that was like... Do

20:10

you remember it was a Christmas... It

20:13

was coat hangers with pencil around them, and it was like

20:15

you put candles on the

20:17

end. So it was like a mobile...

20:20

Actual candles? Well, yeah. Yeah,

20:23

which must have gone up in flames, especially

20:25

because it's like 80s. But

20:27

it was really funny. You can see it somewhere

20:29

on the internet. He wouldn't like that.

20:33

Ted Kaczynski, not my partner's

20:35

father. Oh

20:38

my dad. My dad would be fine with that actually.

20:41

So it's like these... What are they called?

20:43

An Advent... What is it called? Not Chandelier.

20:45

Like an Advent cat wreath. Yes. So it's

20:47

like these coat hangers that go like that,

20:49

and then there's candles, and then

20:52

there's another layer underneath. And how good it

20:54

looks on the computer. And when people made

20:56

them at home, it just looked like... Yeah,

20:58

like coat hangers with some wonky candles on the

21:00

end. See, this is the thing. My... Speaking

21:03

of my dad, he's very overly

21:06

safety conscious. Oh really? So we would not have

21:08

been allowed to make that or hang that up

21:10

if it had candles on it. Like he's obsessed

21:12

with safety. Were you not allowed to find the

21:14

fire in a dressing gown? Absolutely not. Like obsessed.

21:16

Really? Yeah, and he's still like that

21:18

a bit now, but yeah. So like you've been framed. He

21:22

is... He's not impressed by... So you've been

21:24

framed, but she's like candid camera in America.

21:26

Funny home videos of people falling over.

21:29

Brilliant stuff. So funny. Probably, I

21:31

think the funniest problem on television is

21:33

still like, so so funny. Me and my mum

21:35

love it. We sit there crying laughing at everything.

21:37

And my dad's like, oh my God, Christ

21:40

alike. Do you know what? Someone could have been

21:42

killed there. He's

21:44

like, oh, that child could have broken his neck.

21:47

He's obsessed with it. He just... And he doesn't

21:49

even call it you've been framed because you have

21:51

been framed. Like

21:53

there's someone pointing their finger. You have been

21:56

framed. Yeah, he's

21:58

obsessed with it. Like he's mad about it. My

22:03

dad had such a cavalier attitude towards

22:05

safety. It was unbelievable. What's that picture

22:07

of him smoking? No,

22:09

he's pouring a Jerry kind of petrol into it and he's got

22:11

a cigarette in the other hand. When

22:14

we were growing up on the farm, he

22:16

would put us in a JCB,

22:20

like, what's it called, the scoop? Oh my God,

22:22

the thing. The thing. He'd lift it up so

22:24

he couldn't see, but he can

22:27

see around it. He also couldn't see if we fell

22:29

out of it. And he would drive us around and

22:31

we're like, yeah. But my mum would be like, you

22:33

wouldn't. Because if we fell, we'd

22:35

just go straight under it and he would go over us.

22:38

There was so much bad stuff that he

22:40

did that's not okay. But you're all fine.

22:42

Yeah. Do you know about the, I must

22:44

have told this, my brother was out on the

22:46

motorbike. No? Yes, I have told this.

22:49

I mean, he's dead now, so who's going to press charges? Don't

22:52

worry, this isn't going to get as dark as it sounds. But it's pretty bad.

22:55

My brother was a schoolboy scrumbler, so like,

22:57

you know, motocross. He was going around the

22:59

field. And my dad was throwing stones at

23:01

him to make him go faster. This is

23:03

my dad's level of parenting. So he's whipping

23:06

stones at my brother. One of them

23:08

whips and it like, I think it like knocks, the handlebarrow knocks, it's

23:11

something happens with the wheel. And my brother

23:13

comes off and he goes into a barbed-wide fence.

23:15

And that's why my brother Alistair has a scar

23:18

that runs blood like that over his eyes. And

23:22

so he's like, do you tell your mother that you

23:24

just came off that bike to come in taking this

23:26

kid back to the house? He's got like a

23:28

flap hanging over his, he nearly lost his eye. Oh

23:31

my, and he has stitches and stuff. Yeah, so he's

23:33

got a scar that you can see. But again, I

23:35

stitches so often, like that, my

23:37

mum would just stitch this up. No,

23:40

I imagine that's why social services didn't

23:42

get involved more. So just, yeah, because

23:44

my mum would like, yeah, because she

23:46

would do like minor surgery on the animals

23:48

and stuff growing up on the farm. So

23:50

yeah, that was that. And that's why you've

23:53

got trotters. And that's why I got trotters. Yeah,

23:55

I lost some feet and then mum's like, I

23:57

can sort this. Can you see that scar there?

24:00

Mum stitched that one, I was about seven. Never

24:02

had stitches? Um, none.

24:05

Apart from whenever wisdom teeth out. No

24:07

one's gonna see that, mother. No, that was just

24:09

irritating, but no, never had stitches on

24:12

the face or hands, body.

24:15

Never had anything like that. Interesting. Ever. Yep,

24:18

touch wood. Touch wood. Touch

24:21

wood gently because of the words that bangs the mind. Touch

24:23

wood very gently for the sound reason. June

24:26

the 10th, number four, this is June 7th, 1980.

24:30

United Airlines President Percy Woods was injured. I

24:32

thought he'd like him because his surname was

24:34

Woods. Well, genuinely, they think that is part

24:36

of it because he always wrapped his, yeah,

24:38

he always wrapped his bombs in wood and

24:40

they were like, Andy sent it to Percy

24:42

Woods. They think it

24:44

was a deliberate thing. Well, the bomb

24:46

was encased in a book called Ice Brothers

24:48

by Sloane Wilson. Not really anything to do

24:50

with anything that was. No, and it was

24:52

about someone's experience of working in the Arctic or something.

24:55

Right, wilderness. And the sort

24:58

of special thought, I don't know.

25:00

So it just had nothing to do with it. But

25:03

I guess that's because he probably wanted him to pick up a book and go,

25:05

what? He

25:07

also put loads of false clues and stuff. So

25:09

this one was returned to a system called Enoch

25:12

W. Fish. And then this is the other thing

25:14

is the police don't have to, and the FBI

25:16

have to investigate it. This is when

25:18

they realize it's all the same person. It's all

25:21

related. And he gets

25:23

his nickname, Unabomber, which stands for

25:25

University Airplane Bomber, and

25:27

all shoved together. He

25:29

was injured, Percy Woods, but he

25:31

survived. He writes about

25:34

it in his diary. Ted says, I feel

25:36

plenty angry, but now I feel able to

25:38

strike back. So he starts to cause actual

25:40

injuries. And I think he's sort of galvanized

25:42

by that. He's enjoying it, isn't he? He

25:45

is. So yeah, they were really

25:47

struggling to decipher what was a clue

25:49

and what was a red herring, because

25:51

there was both in it. So he

25:53

always used Eugene O'Neill stamps on stuff.

25:55

And that was like part of it.

25:58

Using wood, sending it to someone. called Wood, that

26:00

was also part of it. And

26:03

at this time as well, lots of the

26:05

parcels have been in or around Chicago, so

26:07

they knew that he was most

26:09

likely familiar with Chicago and he had actually

26:11

been born there and he just moved away.

26:14

So they start to get a picture of him, but

26:16

they don't actually have any information on him. Well,

26:18

that's in June 10 1980, Percy Woods, and then October 8

26:20

1981, a bomb wrapped in brown

26:25

paper and tied up with string, these are

26:27

a few of my favourite things, was found

26:29

in the hallway of the University of Utah

26:31

in Salt Lake City. Now that was just

26:33

detonated without any injuries to anybody. People obviously

26:35

thought, what's this? Well, it was a pipe

26:37

bomb, it was a can of

26:40

petrol and inside was the pipe bomb. So

26:42

if it had gone off, it would have

26:44

caused some damage. So he's refining, he's tweaking,

26:46

he's changing his materials as well, he's moving

26:48

away from more wood and components inside. He

26:50

would do things like the end of a

26:52

wire would be capped with wood. And

26:56

they were like, he can go and

26:58

buy something like this for pennies. And

27:00

he's choosing not to he's choosing to

27:02

use crude materials. And do

27:04

you know what they did? This is what annoyed me. So they

27:06

send this thing in the University of

27:08

Utah, they find it and security take it and we're like,

27:11

we think this is a suspicious package. So they take it

27:13

to women's toilets and blow it up there. So

27:16

it was finally letting women into higher education

27:18

be like, fucking trash the bugs though. Yeah,

27:21

they're not having anything nice. And then once they've

27:23

blown up in the women's toilets, then they call

27:25

the Unabomber task force. So it's

27:27

like, they could have called them and gone, we think we

27:29

got a package, which you know, there'll be evidence, they were

27:31

like, go on is the security guard

27:33

like gun blood up and go in

27:35

the women's toilets. Don't tell me coming in there. The

27:38

next one was 1982. May

27:41

the fifth, 1982. This is a sixth one. A

27:45

bomb is sent to the head of

27:47

computer science at Vanderbilt University. Now it's

27:49

opened by the head of computer sciences

27:52

secretary after she opens it in his

27:54

office. Because people are like

27:56

that. People open

27:58

my post. Oh, I

28:00

can see that. If you get loads of posts... Hmm,

28:04

I don't know. Stop your own post. Then,

28:07

so this is a few months later in July...

28:09

Can I just say on that one? Yeah, go

28:11

ahead. So that one is, again,

28:13

it's a pipe bomb with a sink, like

28:15

a sink you bend used in it, because

28:17

he'd pack it full of explosives and shrapnel,

28:19

so he's trying to cause... As much injury

28:21

as he can. As much injury as he can. And

28:24

they realise that they... You know, because they've got the

28:28

bits of bombs being left behind, and they're

28:30

finding that he is kind

28:32

of across forensics before it's a

28:34

widely acknowledged kind of school of

28:36

thought. So there was never any

28:38

hair in it, which is a real feat because

28:41

he's a hairy boy. So there

28:43

was never any hair in the bombs, and he would

28:45

sand down all the surfaces, so there was no fingerprints.

28:47

Ah. Yeah, and

28:51

he starts to leave little markers. So

28:54

coming up in the one that you're about to talk

28:57

about in July... Just going to ask him, you said

28:59

shrapnel. Did your dad ever refer to change as shrapnel?

29:01

Yeah, always, yeah. Mind of fact. She's got shrapnel in

29:03

the back pocket. Yeah. And also,

29:05

like, dads use...love a back pocket, don't they? Yeah,

29:08

my dad... I always

29:11

think of, you know, those... Because

29:13

he used to be a bus driver, but tax drivers

29:16

for a long time, he always used to have a bag

29:18

with him if that changed. He just can go to something and

29:20

he got a bit tasty. Well, he'd have to get

29:22

changed, wouldn't you? Yeah. I think

29:24

so. I always think of that and...but yeah, oh, bag

29:26

of shrapnel there. You know, that kind of...it's such a

29:28

weird thing to say. I remember I have with my

29:30

dad is whenever he... I'd be like, dad,

29:32

have you got, you know, like a quid for the trial or whatever,

29:34

taking it out, and it would always be dog ends. You

29:37

know, like, I don't know what you call them. That's what

29:39

we call them in our house, dog ends, yeah? So like

29:41

the bottom bit of a cigarette that he's like, well, I

29:43

will still have that. I'll tear that back. And I see

29:46

him put it out on his jeans and put it in

29:48

his pocket. He's sorry because

29:50

my dad doesn't smoke anymore, but he

29:52

does smoke a lot. And

29:55

obviously his kids, he's smoking the

29:57

car or, you know, he'd come back from work. You

30:00

know, being a bus driver you're allowed to smoke out the window

30:02

then, so you've been constantly smoking all day. And I got in

30:04

a taxi last night to go to where I was staying from

30:06

the station, and I got in a taxi, and it was like,

30:08

it felt like my dad in here. You know,

30:10

it was, it was because it was like taxi air

30:12

freshener from where... and that sort of fags. Yeah,

30:16

yeah. And it's like, oh, that's not very

30:18

nice. It smells a lot better now,

30:20

may I stress? It works for a

30:22

company where he's got to wear a shirt and

30:24

tie. Love that. Driving the coach, so he's a

30:26

lot cleaner now. Apparently smell is the most powerful

30:28

trigger of memory. Yes, it is. Absolutely.

30:31

If I smell Dewberry, I'm

30:33

taken right back to 1990s.

30:36

Yeah. I was everywhere in

30:38

Body Shop. Dewberry. Dewberry. But also,

30:40

do you remember when the body shop used to be quite cheap?

30:43

Because that's where we used to get all our Christmas presents for everyone

30:45

at school. So you'd get somebody Dewberry, white

30:47

bit of white mustard. Yeah, those little... Bus

30:50

pearls. Try to let you into secret.

30:52

I used to try and eat them all. Try and get them

30:55

because they look delicious. Never learnt, did I? And

30:57

but yeah, what smells... It's really asked me

30:59

to explain. There's certain men's aftershaves

31:01

that remind me of people. And

31:03

then straight back to Jean-Paul

31:07

Gautier, the man's one. Yeah.

31:11

Favorite ex-boyfriend every single

31:13

time, straight back there. It's like... Really? But

31:15

also mixed with leather because you used to

31:17

wear leather jackets because your button was cool.

31:20

Hey, it's just me telling it like it is.

31:24

You did a microphone hand then, you know? I

31:26

didn't hear the accent though. So

31:30

like that smell, but what else reminds me?

31:33

Like there's certain perfumes

31:35

that remind me of hairspray all the way

31:37

around in my ground. Oh really? Yeah, that's...

31:39

Is that an elm that or something? Elm

31:41

that. Like certain... The Xbox Expensive

31:44

one, is it? Elm that,

31:46

is it? It's elm that. Yeah. And yeah, because she

31:48

always used to spray all her hair up.

31:51

Hairspray reminds me of that. We can't

31:53

have lavender. That's why I'm burning a lavender

31:55

can. Oh, yeah. Candle right now. So I'm

31:57

burning it. We can't have it in a

31:59

house because... my

32:01

partner's like mother loved

32:03

lavender. So let me

32:05

tell you guys, you all know this. It's an absolute

32:07

nightmare to find a pillow spray. Because

32:10

everything has got lavender in it because

32:12

it's relaxing and he, fair

32:14

play. He doesn't want to sleep. It's an incredibly evocative

32:16

thing. But it means I can't even plant lavender on

32:18

the farm. That he's, you know, just doesn't like it.

32:21

Get rid of him. Get rid of him. Get rid

32:23

of him. Break off the engagement. Yeah. Buy

32:25

some lavender. Have a nice pillow spray. Actually I've got a

32:27

ginger one that's lovely at the moment. I think what other

32:29

smells remind me of things. This is a very

32:31

specific thing. Do you know, you know when you

32:33

get in a taxi and you smell chef's ass?

32:36

Yeah. Me. Me. Oh.

32:40

This is such a weird specific one. My granddad

32:43

used to eat cheese

32:45

and tomato butters, which I love. But also he used to

32:47

eat tomato butters. And sometimes he just used to have a

32:49

tomato with a bit of salt on it. Just

32:52

as like steating tomato. And

32:56

he always used to, he always used to wear like a

32:58

jumper. Because he'd

33:00

eat tomato loads. They often eat a little tomato seeds on

33:02

his jumper. So when you went, you hugged him, your

33:05

face was always in tomato seeds. So,

33:07

caribolic soap and tomato seeds. Oh, I was

33:09

just wondering. I like grandads. Which is weird

33:11

because Tim likes to use caribolic soap. I

33:14

like caribolic soap. I'm just like, oh great. Now I've got

33:16

to think of my dead grandad, Heather. Thank you. Oh,

33:20

someone I love died. Lovely.

33:23

I wonder what, do you know, I

33:25

always spoke about people's houses and how they smell. Yeah.

33:29

And like, I love it

33:31

when you find someone who's got a similar smell in house

33:33

to you. I find it really comforting. Yeah.

33:35

I think I smell of like coal

33:37

and coal tarmed and dog. Like,

33:40

I think my house has a really specific smell. It

33:42

smells like wood, wooden, like burning. What does my house

33:44

smell of? Oh God, I shouldn't have asked it. Don't

33:46

know what asked it. What is your, what's

33:49

it? Which is when it's

33:51

dried on a floor. Yeah, yeah, that's the one. Concrust.

33:57

He's a great actor though. What

34:04

do you smell like? Well you've always got a candle

34:06

on and you go... I tell you what I do,

34:08

I love a jostick. Yeah she does. Which Tim hates.

34:10

He fucking hates it so I'm always like that and

34:12

he's like, oh do you smell like any of that

34:14

record shop that you used to go to when I

34:16

was a teenager? It's sort of like... Now

34:19

example. Yeah like um, like Affleck's Palace in

34:21

Manchester Smells, I love it. Oh I got

34:23

you some, I got you some Incense Cone

34:25

so they're nice. Lovely, I also have. I

34:27

got you some White Sage one so you

34:29

can cleanse your bad fucking attitude. God, that's

34:31

just what I need. I have, also Tim

34:33

bought me this for Christmas, not this year last year.

34:36

Oh not last year, year before. Here we go,

34:38

2024. And he

34:41

bought this, it was by far my favourite present. It's

34:45

a wolf, Incense Cone thing.

34:47

And you put the Incense Cone and you put

34:49

the wolf over it. It looks like the wolf.

34:52

That's great, I love that. Do you know

34:54

what? There's a restaurant on the coast of

34:56

an it's morning on the way to Manner

34:58

Bridge called Chateau Rienveur and when you drive

35:01

past it the extractors in the kitchen, they've

35:03

built a massive fake dragon head over it.

35:05

Oh nice. So it's really good, so it

35:07

looks like smoke's coming out of it all

35:09

the time. That is. It's a beautiful beautiful

35:12

building that you can see if you go on

35:14

the rib ride on the straights, it's great. And

35:16

it is stunning and it's got like these round

35:18

turrets. I've never eaten there but apparently food's good

35:20

as well. And it was built, this guy built

35:23

it as a love, like a love proposal to

35:25

this woman which is very topical actually because this

35:27

is coming out about Valentine's Day isn't it? Yes,

35:29

yeah actually. Yeah, I hope you had a lovely

35:31

time. And I love

35:33

talking to her. Yeah and she looked in, she went not for me.

35:36

She didn't even stay in it. No you

35:38

don't. Yeah, she's like oh not my taste.

35:40

I also got a, for my sister for

35:43

Christmas, I got her a plague doctor Incense

35:45

Cone thing. Oh that's great. Because

35:47

here's the thing, do you know my sister's got a tattoo of

35:49

plague doctor? No. Well that's something that's

35:51

happened. Valentine's

35:54

Day, we should talk about that right? What's your

35:56

vibe? Hate it. Isn't it stupid?

35:58

It was stupid. Well, he's

36:00

dastin' it. I mean, it's nice if

36:02

you're into that kind of thing, but I don't know, I'm not

36:06

bothered. I get embarrassed

36:08

about stuff like that, you

36:10

know. But I don't know,

36:12

I miss me a little bit. It's so funny what you're

36:15

not embarrassed by. I know, but I just

36:17

feel a bit... The dry bumming. I

36:19

wish we'd have. You say one thing once. Eight

36:22

years ago. Crass

36:25

that. And

36:29

yeah, it's so funny what you are and

36:31

aren't embarrassed by. Like your stand-up's very like

36:33

fourth-right. And some people get, oh God, I

36:35

could never say that. But then you're like,

36:37

oh, I can't watch Panto. That's embarrassing. You

36:39

know what never worked in my stand-up? And

36:42

I kept trying to get... I think it's

36:44

because it jazzed with my persona. Is a

36:46

tragedy bit about greeting cards and how I

36:48

found them. Crass. Yes. And not very... And

36:50

it never works because I just think people

36:52

are like, hang on a minute. Why are

36:54

you offended by that? Well, I think you

36:56

are like an old maid in some ways.

36:58

You'd be like, oh, within this shop. And it's

37:00

just... But, Pam, it's like, oh,

37:02

happy birthday, you're con. Yeah, I hope not.

37:04

You have no need for it. Like, it's

37:07

so nasty. Like,

37:10

oh, happy birthday. You've sold... All

37:12

your friends smell a wee. It's

37:14

like, that's offensive, ageist and

37:17

cruel and just... I

37:20

thought you made me think. So my little desk opposite

37:22

here. Whenever

37:24

I'm in TK Maxx or whatever, I always

37:26

go through the like, reduced cards bit and

37:28

I have like a... Basically,

37:30

happy birthday ones, baby ones, everything. But also,

37:33

I'll pick up cards throughout the year. And

37:35

then so in that drawer there. So my

37:37

normal cards behind Owen on the left and

37:39

in the drawer on the right, on the

37:41

top is cards with a post and

37:43

no one. Because I'm like, that'd be great for Cass.

37:45

And then because I've got ones for people, I've got

37:48

one for my birthday card for my dad in there.

37:50

And one for my parents anniversary. I have to be

37:52

like, I'm sure they're all constant. I don't know if

37:54

I can use this for... But I've got like this

37:56

card of like, because I've been... So

37:58

normally I'm like, yes. I only paid 90 fee

38:01

for that thing and I'm like well that's a fucking

38:03

waste of money. You should just keep those though. What

38:05

for? It's just nice to

38:07

keep innit you know. Um. I

38:10

think you should just keep those aren't they? You can have them.

38:13

I don't want them. I

38:15

think you should just keep them you know it's nice. Go

38:17

put them on the, wherever I end up pouring his ashes

38:19

I can put the card on it. Put the card on

38:22

this person. He'd love that. Would he like that? No. He'd

38:26

hate that dude. He'd absolutely hate that

38:28

yeah. He'd fucking hate that. What

38:31

were we on about? We were talking about smell. So

38:35

we're down to, at this point

38:37

he's done this this pint bomb the assistant opens

38:39

the package that's all they're up to. Now at

38:41

this point the investigation is broad and they've got

38:43

a kind of profile about what they think this

38:45

guy is. There's 200 suspects

38:48

that they're actively monitoring. He is

38:50

not in those 200 suspects. He

38:52

writes in his coded diary at the time. I'm

38:55

finding it frustrating that I cannot make a lethal

38:57

bomb. So he's just being really open about. He

38:59

just wants to kill someone. He does. This is

39:01

just his pretend he's any

39:03

old fucking arrogant male serial

39:06

killer. He's just dressing up with a

39:08

manifesto. So this was a July 2nd

39:10

1982 package but I'm left in the

39:12

break room of Corihull University of California,

39:14

Berkler. That explodes and injures

39:17

an engineering professor. There's

39:19

some weird things going on here. So one

39:22

they find a little piece of shrapnel and on

39:24

it is with sort of like a

39:27

pointed thing. He's put like dots

39:30

almost and it spells out the letters F

39:32

and C. Now these

39:34

bits of fucking cunt. What

39:36

you know what? There's a really funny

39:39

bit in one of the documentaries where they

39:41

are the they start appearing these FCS, FCS,

39:43

FCS and things. And so there's

39:45

a whiteboard where they show the FBI's kind of workings

39:48

of it and they've got all the things and

39:50

things are on there. Felix the cat,

39:52

false Christ, fried chicken. Like

39:54

why is it? Why is it? It's a girdle. So

39:58

the FC. Monica appears for the

40:01

first time, so they're able to actually

40:03

see it. And also on the package, I think it's

40:05

on a letter in it, it says, Wu

40:07

as in W U the

40:10

Chinese surname Wu, it works. I

40:12

told you it would. And then

40:14

RV. And this is an example

40:16

of a completely false clue,

40:18

a red herring, because then what happens

40:20

is the FBI investigate everybody was called

40:22

Wu, you know, with the surname Wu,

40:24

they look at anyone with the initials

40:26

RV. They look with where it crosses

40:29

over and it's just a time wasting.

40:31

What did FC mean? FC

40:33

ended up standing at for Freedom Club. Of

40:35

course he did. Pretty cool guys. Which I

40:37

think just sounds like a

40:39

supermarket and sort

40:41

of own clothes brand for boys.

40:43

Yes. Yeah. Freedom

40:46

Club where there's like a picture of, you know,

40:48

dinosaur on the front. Yeah, Freedom Club. Yeah. And

40:51

Little Miss Homemaker for the girls. Yeah,

40:53

absolutely. It's mad that we still

40:55

have like really gendered stuff in, you know,

40:57

because when I was growing up, I'd never

40:59

used to wear sort of girly stuff. I

41:01

used to prefer boys

41:03

stuff or just like neutral stuff. I

41:06

had, in fact, if you ever seen the picture of me, you

41:08

got really short hair as a kid. I

41:11

used to be using as a boy all the time.

41:13

I've got a picture I'll show you in a bit

41:15

where I look just like a boy. I've got like

41:18

a Beatles shag haircut and I'm in a little boy's

41:20

t-shirt, little boy's shorts. And the girl next to me

41:22

is in like a very sort of like

41:25

flancy dress. Do you think it's, you

41:27

just don't want to conform? I think it's... I

41:30

specifically remember having a pair of

41:32

Seeker trainers, which would be like

41:34

some snide you make onto the

41:36

market. And I loved them and I

41:38

wore them out and I remember thinking, and they were

41:40

boys trainers. And I'm thinking these are great because I

41:42

can go really fast in these. Do you know, I

41:44

was talking about this, your trainers that you have at

41:46

school, this is why I like trainers. I never had

41:49

snide trainers, but I would be bought a pair of

41:51

trainers, but that, and that was expected to last me

41:53

for like five years. Right. So these would

41:56

be a lot I went to school with in

41:59

junior school. and he was the

42:01

first person I knew with a satellite dish and his house used

42:03

to back on to the school playground. We used

42:05

to go, God, you've got a satellite dish. You've

42:07

seen the Simpsons, you know? And

42:10

then he had Simpsons trainers

42:13

and I remember thinking, oh my

42:15

God, he must be a millionaire. How has

42:17

he got a satellite dish and Simpsons trainers?

42:20

But they were

42:22

just no-make trainers really. Yeah. But because I've

42:24

never seen them before. I was like, God,

42:26

his mum and dad must be millionaires. I

42:28

remember all my trainers that come from Sangerbne

42:30

Market and they'd be like, those nicks with

42:32

the upside down nicks and all that kind

42:34

of stuff. And then, yeah, these

42:36

are Nike. I got

42:38

this. Yeah. Great. No fucking grip

42:40

on them. But I'm

42:43

not with Nike. I want to sponsor this. These are

42:45

Jordan boots, but I'm not going to take it up

42:47

with Michael Jordan because I don't think he gives a fuck anymore.

42:49

They cost more than they should

42:52

and they're very slipper. So I won't be slam dunking

42:54

in these. Thank you very much. Or at

42:57

all. Yeah. Apparently women can't slam

42:59

dunk. Do you know that? Really?

43:01

Is it the boobs? Physicality.

43:05

Bullshit. Apparently it's true. Bullshit.

43:08

Apparently it's

43:10

true. So at this

43:13

point, the investigation splits. Also don't write

43:15

in about that because I don't care.

43:17

The investigation splits. The FBI say, right,

43:19

we'll deal with the bombs and the

43:22

postal inspection service say we'll deal

43:24

with the actual devices that have come through the

43:26

post. I actually think the

43:28

FBI should deal with all of it if

43:30

you ask me. Yeah. We'll make sure. How

43:33

are you going to know?

43:35

I honestly think that they just didn't have the workforce for

43:37

it and they weren't moving forward and they wanted someone else

43:39

to blame. Sounds about

43:41

right. That's me. May the 15th 1985. Another

43:43

one at the same place,

43:45

Corrie Hall, injures an engineering student.

43:48

Yes. June the 13th 1985. A suspicious package

43:52

is sent to Boeing Fabrication Division

43:54

in Washington. It's safely detonated,

43:56

but most of the forensic evidence is

43:59

lost. 10th warm,

44:02

November the 15th, 1985. He's banging that, he

44:04

really is. There's a short hiatus for a couple

44:06

of years, but then he starts going again and

44:08

he is really going for it. He's refined his

44:10

technique. This is at the time when the neighbours

44:13

were hearing him testing bombs but not knowing that's

44:15

what it was. Oh, what's that up to? Yeah.

44:18

Well, as long as he's quiet. He's really going on

44:20

that pinata, isn't he? November the

44:22

15th, 1985, University of Michigan, a psychology

44:24

professor and his assistant are featured when

44:26

they open a package that contained a

44:29

three-ring binder that had a bomb in

44:31

it. The bomber, the

44:34

person who sent it, I don't know why it's

44:36

so funny. It's not funny. The

44:39

bomber included a letter. It reminds me of

44:41

that, that's why. The bomber

44:43

included a letter asking the professor to

44:45

review a student's master thesis. Obviously, they

44:47

opened that, aren't they? Now,

44:50

December the 11th, 1985, just a

44:53

month after this, this is the

44:55

first fatality that was hit by a tent. It's

44:57

important to say that he has caused massive

45:00

amounts of damage. Yeah, he's injured people. The

45:02

bomb on the 15th of May in 1985

45:05

is, is it John Houser who's opening it?

45:08

He loses his fingertips and there's,

45:10

I mean, there's an interview with him where

45:12

he's on his right hand,

45:14

he's not got the ends of his fingertips and

45:16

he's got like a hole, it's healed now, but

45:18

a hole in his arm where it sort of

45:20

blacked through. And he

45:22

was, he's something to do, he was,

45:25

he was a pilot and he had an air

45:27

force ring on and it blew off and there's

45:29

a nuts picture of it imprinted on the wall.

45:32

Oh my God. Because it had been blown off

45:34

at such speed, the finger and the ring had

45:36

come off and it, it was like it had

45:38

been punched more, like more

45:40

fiercely than a human could have done

45:43

it. So he is creating

45:45

powerful bombs that can raise people. Yeah and

45:47

he's injuring people, he's frightening people. Yeah. And

45:50

FC has stumped into all of these, they find

45:52

it on a bit of metal in all of

45:54

these bombs now moving forward. So December the 11th,

45:56

1985, this is the first fatality. It's a bomb

45:58

that is left in the car. of

46:00

RENTEC, which is a computer rental

46:02

computer shop in Sacramento. Now the

46:04

owner Hugh Campbell-Squerton, who was 38

46:07

years old, he leaves work to

46:09

go into the car park and

46:12

moments after he leaves the store the device

46:15

explodes. Now a person arrived

46:17

at the scene and they heard Hugh say, oh

46:19

my god help me, she's horrible. He was only

46:21

alive for a few seconds. He bent down to

46:24

pick it up and it exploded and the shrapnel

46:26

basically tore through his heart and took his hand

46:28

off as well. So they think that he was

46:30

dead very quickly. Well he was pronounced dead at

46:33

12.34pm at the University

46:35

Medical Center. His chest as you say took the

46:37

full force of the blast. There

46:39

were no known witnesses and the blast

46:41

shut the entire shopping center that the store

46:43

was located in and shrapnel was scattered for 150

46:45

hours but there were no

46:48

other injuries because nobody was around. He's a

46:50

horror. Yeah and that's just like some guy

46:52

who runs a computer shop. This is the thing

46:54

is like you're not bringing down, not that it's

46:56

ever, I'm not inciting violence here but like you're

47:01

not attacking politicians, you're not attacking policy

47:03

makers, you're not attacking, but like just

47:05

a guy who has a computer shop

47:07

that is not like he's not everything

47:09

that's wrong with the world. Really,

47:11

no, he pisses me off. Now

47:15

on February, he obviously thinks, oh this is the

47:17

way to do it. So February 20th 1987

47:19

in Salt Lake City there was

47:22

another bomb in a car park of a

47:24

computer shop and this injured the store manager

47:26

26 year old Gary Wright. He picks

47:29

up a mailed package in the store car park which

47:31

was left by an unknown man an

47:33

hour before at 9.46pm. Now this annoys

47:35

me. Two witnesses saw a

47:37

man leave the package and then hurry

47:39

away and they didn't contact the police. They

47:42

said that they were trying to contact their boss about it.

47:45

Well from the police. Yeah this is a

47:47

very weird one. He gets seen, obviously he

47:49

looks completely different, we talked about that in

47:51

the last episode where he would like shave

47:54

himself. It's quite a famous description that's given

47:56

of him an image that's put into newspapers

47:58

that people start to get on. t-shirts

48:00

when the manifesto is released because he becomes

48:02

this anti-hero. It's yeah, I knew you'd hate

48:04

that. The poor guy, he

48:06

pulls up and there's a parcel in his parking space.

48:08

So he gets out and he prints it out the

48:10

way. And as he does, he explodes

48:13

and he shivers a nerve in his

48:15

arm. So he has permanent damage from

48:17

that. But because this sketch

48:19

is being circulated, this is the first

48:21

bit of real evidence.

48:23

So he's wearing sunglasses and a

48:26

hoodie. Yeah. And

48:28

this the fact that this description is

48:31

being circulated absolutely everywhere. It's shown on

48:33

the news. It's in all the papers.

48:35

It leads to a six year hiatus.

48:37

Yep. So in this six

48:39

year hiatus, he's out there bearing in mind

48:42

his bombs are beginning steadily more sophisticated and

48:44

more deadly. This is what he's like, right,

48:46

I'm going to change the actual material I'm

48:48

using. So I'm not going to use match

48:50

heads and bits of firework. He's going to

48:52

learn how to cook bombs properly in a

48:54

way. Isn't more explosive

48:56

stuff to me like you know, the

48:59

only reason I know is because I'm trying

49:01

to buy fucking ethical cleaning products and they're

49:03

like, you need citric acid. And then everyone's

49:05

like, it's really hard to buy citric acid

49:07

after the seven seven attack and things like

49:09

that. So why are you pointing at me?

49:11

I didn't do it. Well, someone

49:14

someone, Gary Barlow and he was in the

49:16

seven seven bombings, didn't know that

49:18

Gary Barlow was in the seven seven bomb. In what

49:20

capacity? He was on a bus or a tube. Gary

49:25

Barlow. Yeah,

49:27

but think of the year it was. He's

49:31

on a freedom pass. That's weird. Yeah,

49:33

it's in his autobiography. Have I read

49:35

it? You bet. Wow.

49:38

Is there a chapter called Minnie Elton? Yep.

49:41

Who talks about how he just wants to be like Elton John and

49:43

tries to decorate his house like him and stuff. Do you know what

49:45

I think we're laughing at the other day? So

49:47

we are. You either you either like that

49:49

kind of stuff or you don't, Gary. Yeah,

49:52

you can't force like love gold barons. You

49:54

can. No. And speaking of

49:56

gold barok, have you watched the Tyson Fury

49:58

Netflix series? No. It's great.

50:01

I can't be asked. He's the

50:03

worst person ever. She's amazing. Paris. Yeah.

50:06

And I would say, watch it because you'll be

50:08

like, my partner and I, 50% of it you're

50:10

like, well that is gorgeous and 50% of you

50:12

are like, that's the worst thing. Yeah. And it's

50:14

like, it's a fine line, isn't it? It's such

50:16

a fine line. Because they've got like these amazing

50:19

Versace dressing gowns, you're like, oh that's really cool.

50:21

And you're like, yeah but their bed's a giant

50:23

throne. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's really, like

50:25

it really teases on the edge of me but

50:27

it's a great one. Oh, okay. I was watching

50:29

it during the greatest and largest arts festival in

50:32

the world, the Edinburgh Fringe. And genuinely I'd be

50:34

on stage and I'd be like, watching Tarot and

50:36

I'd be like, can't wait to go and just watch The Furies.

50:39

I got honestly, like everything that I was doing, I

50:41

was like, I'll be back in with The

50:43

Furies in about 40 minutes. You laughed a bit at this. Yeah.

50:45

No, no, no, no, no, no. Good night. Just

50:48

running through the streets and I never had to get

50:50

back to it. It was exactly what I needed. It's

50:52

got a really interesting accent as well. I don't know

50:54

if it's, it's almost like a bit stoked. I

50:56

don't know if it's because his wife is a

50:59

traveller as well. I don't know if it's an

51:01

accent that's specific to that group and

51:03

like the travellers in that area. It's really

51:05

unusual, really cool accent. Yeah, yeah. Anyway,

51:07

why was I talking about this? We

51:10

started with citric acid. Thank

51:12

you. Thank God I

51:14

went there. Citric acid. I can't

51:16

remember now but it was, you can't buy it

51:18

because it's used for explosives. Yeah, yeah, I've said

51:21

that. I've said my piece. He was cooking bombs.

51:26

That sounds like a compliment. You

51:28

are cooking bombs. Absolutely. Cooking

51:31

on bombs. Doesn't sound like you've had a good gig.

51:34

He was cooking bombs last night. Yeah, yeah,

51:36

it does, doesn't it? Did I tell you that? Can

51:39

we start saying it and see if it catches you up? Oh

51:41

yeah, definitely. Let's try and make that now. Oh,

51:44

it's absolutely cooking bombs. Oh

51:46

my God. Scott Bennett the other night was absolutely

51:48

cooking bombs. Oh, lovely Scott Bennett. I

51:51

saw him at Christmas. What a good egg.

51:55

It does look Scandinavian. But

51:57

it's sharp. Yeah,

51:59

it's like a blonde. Oh, this is what

52:01

I was gonna say is so do you know that Gary? Do

52:04

you know that Gary Barlow is married to one

52:06

of the former dancers? He's been married long time

52:08

for Dawn and it's like it's a I knew

52:10

that obviously from reading the book and being obsessed

52:12

I go my love and but isn't it really

52:14

funny to step back and it's like this

52:17

is Gary and Dawn from fraudsham Yeah, do you

52:19

know I mean? Oh, I Gary and

52:21

Dawn. Yeah from fraudsham. I think

52:23

it's so fun. I don't know why I'm gas Yeah, don't

52:25

and guess don't and gas gonna do the dogs while we're

52:27

away Good the good people.

52:30

Do you know what? I think need to stop

52:32

trying to make a thing. Um Those

52:35

two from Spandau ballet

52:38

the camp. Yeah Stop

52:40

trying to make it that they try to make

52:42

some comedy show Oh, yeah, it's like unless you

52:44

the one of the sons is on everything. Yes,

52:46

we don't we don't bothered about yeah

52:49

well, I think there's probably people who are I

52:54

Would put that to the nation and as

52:56

a referendum Yes

52:58

or no respect the will of the people a yes

53:01

or no Are you bothered about

53:03

the kemp in any capacity? Yes or

53:05

no, and we will come back

53:07

with a resounding? 97%

53:09

no, okay Let's

53:13

see how bothered you are now the kemp and

53:15

the ones What

53:19

are they no no I'm what the other ones

53:21

the twins Broth, broth

53:23

the kemp's and the broths fights of the death.

53:25

Would you watch it? Yeah, if they all Know

53:29

I can't say that What if

53:31

they all died? Yeah, I think I mean that the

53:33

thing is that brush documentary was good because it was

53:35

Entertaining at the time wasn't it? Mm-hmm, and it was

53:37

good because it was natural and it was funny for

53:39

the right reasons and the wrong reasons and it but

53:41

now The camps trying to make a parody of that.

53:44

It's not from a you're not fucking funner You

53:46

are not for next it's really hard to be funny

53:49

and they are not fun. Yeah I think I do

53:51

think that like I haven't seen it But I do

53:53

think that there is loads of people who think that

53:55

being funny is an easy thing Yeah, we're

53:58

not we don't want this. My partner has a bug people

54:00

who've hosted SNL and he's like, oh, this

54:02

person's hosted SNL and it's made them come

54:04

away thinking they're funny. I've been hoping they're

54:07

being propped up by incredibly funny people around

54:09

them. And I

54:12

beat this. He

54:17

can't do comedy and it's a comedy role. Anyway,

54:22

so back to

54:25

bombs, June 22nd, 1993. So this is a long

54:27

time after. So 1987 was the

54:33

previous one. So we're going to

54:35

22nd June, 1993, a geneticist at

54:37

the University of California was injured

54:39

after opening a package in his kitchen.

54:42

Imagine that that would have come from nowhere

54:44

as well. Like every countdown. They all thought

54:47

he was in jail. They were like, he's

54:49

been caught, but we just don't know it's

54:51

him here. Or he's dead. Or he's dead.

54:53

And then what happened is the packages when

54:55

they come back, he's massively refined it. They're

54:57

much smaller and they're much more lethal. So

54:59

this person is just a

55:01

geneticist as well. It's kind of like nothing to

55:03

do with some people who owned a computer shop

55:05

opens it and it yeah, devastating.

55:08

On June the 24th, 1993, no pissing about

55:10

it. This is just two days later. A

55:13

prominent computer scientist from Yale lost

55:15

several fingers to from a mailed

55:18

bomb. David Gellert. He

55:21

says problems to stay with his injuries. By the way,

55:23

he opened a package on his desk, assuming it was

55:25

a dissertation on any opened it and smokes that billowing

55:27

out of it and a flash happened. So

55:29

he's obviously got smoking his eyes. He's like, I'm going

55:31

to go and wash my eyes. But as he was

55:33

washing his eyes, he realized he was bleeding profusely and

55:36

he had no fingers and he

55:38

realized he was like, okay,

55:40

well, I'm washing his eyes with it. Crash

55:43

knows. I don't know that bit. That's

55:46

not the important. No, it's not.

55:49

He headed. So he obviously thought, well,

55:52

this is not good. And he hobbled

55:55

down several flights of stairs. And this

55:57

is what he described himself as in

55:59

pain. royally annoyed. Well

56:03

I'm absolutely furious. So

56:07

had he waited he would likely have

56:09

bled to death. So he was

56:11

injured in the chest, face and hand. He still can't

56:13

use his right hand to this day. When

56:16

they came to investigate the room

56:18

where the bomb had exploded, his shoe

56:21

was in there and his shirt had

56:23

been blown off in the blast as

56:25

well. That's the

56:28

kind of excuse I give for a messy bedroom. I'd

56:30

be like, oh I do that all the time. I'm like,

56:32

sorry we're moving out of this room or we've just been

56:34

painting. We're just having some work done. Sorry I had a

56:37

bomb in here and that's why my shits everywhere and my

56:39

dirty knickers are on the floor. I

56:41

don't mean shit is in shits everywhere. It's not that

56:43

bad. You've given them dirty knickers. It's a horrible thing

56:45

to say. I mean I'm actually

56:47

pretty good at putting my dirty knickers in the wash but... Oh

56:50

I'm very funny about my underwear. I think I've said this before. Yeah

56:52

you are. No one else has said that. I think it was actually

56:54

you. I think it was the woods at night. I just think, you

56:56

know, have some dignity. What, not our pants?

56:59

No, have your pants but wash them yourself. You

57:02

won't let Tim wash your pants? No I won't. I

57:04

mean I do the majority of the washing however. I don't like

57:06

men touching my clothes anyway. I wash my own clothes. I'm

57:09

weird about it. I don't like it. I don't

57:11

like people touching my clothes. Fine. Don't

57:15

like it. I just do something. It gives me the creeps.

57:17

I've said this before. I don't know what it is. Yeah

57:19

isn't it creepy when someone you've chosen to share your life

57:21

with briefly touches some fabric that touches your body. I just

57:23

don't like it. It gives me the creeps. Fine

57:25

with a cock up the arse but don't touch my pants.

57:27

Yeah absolutely fine. Good

57:31

job. God it's a new year

57:34

and still. 15th

57:38

December the 19th 1994. Nick,

57:40

question is you'll hate this one. Yeah. Now

57:43

this isn't funny actually. None of this is funny

57:45

in Maestress but this bit is particularly not funny.

57:47

So curb your attitude. I'm

57:51

being as good as gold here. Right. December

57:53

the 19th. This is the 15th one. The

57:55

penultimate penultimate bombing. A

57:58

New Jersey ad executive called Thomas. Jake Moser.

58:00

He was 50 years old. He was at the time

58:02

at the top of his career. He was the vice

58:04

president at Young and Ruby Camp Ad Agency

58:07

in New York. He had a wife.

58:09

He had two daughters at home aged 13 and

58:11

15 months. Bit of a gap, no judgment. And

58:13

he had two older children from a previous marriage

58:16

who were grown up and living in different cities.

58:18

He feels like judgment, doesn't it? Nothing to do

58:20

with me. Nothing to do with me. The

58:23

package that the bond was sent

58:25

in had been signed for the

58:27

previous Friday, the Friday before the

58:29

date was opened. The night

58:31

that the package was signed for, the Mosers

58:33

were having a party for the neighborhood, including

58:35

several children that were there. So

58:37

if that package had been opened, God

58:40

knows what would happen. The explosion occurred though when his

58:42

daughters and a 13 year old friend were in the

58:44

house as well. So it could have been. It

58:47

was sent from San Francisco as well. So

58:49

like he's all over the shop. Like

58:52

he must travel for days because he's

58:54

only got a bicycle and

58:56

I assume he's on public transport. He's always fine to

58:58

use fucking technology then, isn't it? But unless

59:00

there was someone else involved and he sent it

59:02

to them in San Francisco and they sent it

59:05

on from there. Yeah, maybe. But

59:07

there's a big risk in the FBI. Hello, how

59:09

are you guys? Happy New Year. So yeah, that

59:18

was awful.

59:21

Horrible. All of it's horrible. And

59:24

then the last one, April,

59:27

the 16th bomb, April 24th,

59:29

1995. Again,

59:32

another fatality, final victim, Gilbert Murritt.

59:34

He was killed and opened a

59:36

small heavy package, which was wrapped in

59:38

brown paper. The package had been

59:40

addressed to William N. Dennison, who was, who'd

59:43

served as president and chief executive of California

59:45

Forestry Association. He was a highly visible figure

59:47

in very contentious environmental issues. But he was

59:49

also like basically the guy who did the

59:51

job before him. Yes. So I think that's

59:53

an example of where he's gone to the

59:56

library, he's got the address and the name

59:58

and since that time. book

1:00:00

yeah in the old handbook and then he sent

1:00:02

it on and someone, well Paul Gilbert Murray and

1:00:04

you know what they kept because obviously it was

1:00:06

Gilbert Murray opened a package not meant for him

1:00:08

and I'm not saying he deserved it of course

1:00:11

but like the papers basically did they went after

1:00:13

the guy it was addressed to you must feel bad

1:00:16

yeah I mean and this guy his predecessor

1:00:20

William Denison he had his phone cut off

1:00:22

because he would kept haranguing him

1:00:24

to talk about his opinion on me he's

1:00:26

like listen I've retired mate leave me alone

1:00:28

yeah so yeah very odd so you would

1:00:31

feel bad about that I mean of course

1:00:33

you feel absolutely elated but also like

1:00:35

shit at the same time so this is in

1:00:37

late April of 1995 on June 28th 95 the

1:00:39

New York Times and the Washington Post both

1:00:44

gets sent a 35,000 word

1:00:47

manifesto oh my god instant reaction

1:00:49

there in

1:00:51

it he says if you publish this

1:00:54

unredacted info then I will

1:00:56

stop killing we are the

1:00:58

freedom club and he signs off FC and

1:01:00

we have they take responsibility for the bombs

1:01:02

it was called what was his manifesto called

1:01:04

oh I haven't got it

1:01:07

yet but we're going to do a whole ep on the

1:01:09

manifesto oh god I'm gonna hate that I'm

1:01:12

actually just going to read it aloud for the whole time um so yes this

1:01:14

is where he basically comes

1:01:18

undone and so we'll draw a line there

1:01:20

and then we'll talk about the manifesto and

1:01:22

him being caught on the present day in

1:01:24

part three remind me the next episode to

1:01:27

tell you about the new year's challenge I'm

1:01:29

doing a new year's challenge I also thought

1:01:31

I mentioned it because I've got to mention it out loud so

1:01:33

then I've got to do it so basically you know I did

1:01:35

me half marathons last year I'm not doing that again uh

1:01:38

not a fucking chance of me running again it's not with ezips

1:01:41

I'm doing race to

1:01:43

the stones which is a two-day

1:01:45

thing where you walk an ancient

1:01:47

path and you end up at

1:01:49

the avbury stone circle you're on a pilgrimage no

1:01:53

yeah no it's not god but loads

1:01:55

of people some people do it's an ultra marathon in one day

1:01:57

but I'm gonna walk it it's gonna take me two days So

1:02:00

you're walking to some ancient things. I

1:02:03

can tell you what, right? Right towards the pilgrimage. It's

1:02:05

not a pilgrimage. I can't wait. And I asked my

1:02:07

mate James if he wanted to do it and he

1:02:09

ignored me. So I'm not going

1:02:11

to do it any more. But what you do is you do like one day's

1:02:13

walk and then you have a little tent and you sleep there and then you

1:02:16

set off again. How many miles to walk a day? Oh, I

1:02:18

don't know. I've got to work that out. I think it's

1:02:20

like 47 miles altogether. Okay, yeah. It's doable.

1:02:23

That's a lot. But I think it's going to be really good.

1:02:25

And I'm saying it out loud. So I've got

1:02:28

to do it. But then I thought, because

1:02:30

it's in July, I'll learn my

1:02:32

song. Yeah, it's a really good idea.

1:02:34

Two days. Just your thoughts.

1:02:37

Awful. Learn it. You'll hurl yourself off

1:02:39

the stones when you might do it. Yeah. Love

1:02:42

every stone circle. I don't know what it is. Oh, it's nice.

1:02:45

There's a lot of stone circles here, you know. Let's go and have

1:02:47

a dance. Because everywhere they

1:02:49

have an idea of, they build a stone circle.

1:02:51

So there wasn't one already. Not an old one,

1:02:53

not a new one. Yeah, there's old ones. How

1:02:55

old? I don't know. Stop doing

1:02:58

that with your hands. That's what you do then, like.

1:03:00

Oh, do you know what? I'm sure you can't be here in

1:03:02

a couple of weekends time because Chris, Maggie

1:03:04

Noggi, is here with the Marley Lourdes.

1:03:07

Oh, you're doing it here? The Bumaris is one of

1:03:09

Bumaris on the 13th of January. It's

1:03:12

a shame. You're welcome to come up if you're not working. Okay, I'll just

1:03:14

think about that. I'm going to go and have a drink with Mary. And

1:03:16

the kids make these little candle things out of orange

1:03:19

peels. And they bring the candles along

1:03:21

and say hello to Mary. And they

1:03:23

sacrifice in Englishmen. And then we sacrifice

1:03:25

in Englishmen, yeah. And

1:03:28

that is, if you're listening, David, that's why I'm

1:03:30

with your son. Thank

1:03:35

you for listening. Thanks for listening. We will see

1:03:37

you with the third and final part of the

1:03:39

Unabomber episode 105 in a couple of weeks.

1:03:43

And oh my gosh, when this is going out, who

1:03:46

knows what's sold out? Who knows what's sold out now?

1:03:48

But I mean, we're in some huge rooms. So I

1:03:50

think Manchester and Glasgow will still have some left. But

1:03:52

we will be seeing you all in a couple of

1:03:54

weeks and we can't wait. Bye.

1:04:00

you