0:00

Welcome to edition 106 of all

0:02

filler. I'll

0:26

kill her. No filler podcast with me, Rachel

0:28

Furbin and Kim of Richard McLean. Just before

0:30

we start, what do I usually disclaimer? This

0:33

isn't hero worship. We do this podcast because

0:35

we have a mutual interest in serial

0:37

killers. As long as we are doing this

0:39

podcast, it stops us from writing. So they've

0:42

been prison. Yes. Thanks

0:44

for joining us. We've

0:47

heard via social media, you guys are

0:50

intrigued by the bookshelves behind us

0:53

reading. I mean, there will be something

0:55

right wing or cancelable behind us because

0:57

sometimes my partner buys a job lot

1:00

of books auction. So you never

1:02

know what kind of Nazi memorabilia is going to

1:04

be sunk into that. You should

1:06

read all kinds of different things. You should read things you

1:08

don't agree with. Yes.

1:10

Yes. Which is why I haven't muted you

1:13

on Twitter just yet. In my opinion, you

1:15

should read all kinds

1:17

of different things and opinions. You

1:19

should listen to all kinds of

1:21

different things. So you

1:23

can be secure in your

1:26

hatred of somebody. That

1:28

is my opinion. Do you still hate listening

1:30

to stuff? No, not

1:32

really. I ain't got time. Yeah. I

1:36

just, I mean, to be honest with

1:38

you, my listening now, I tend to

1:40

just listen to ghost podcasts. Interesting.

1:43

Jim Harrell's Campfire. Stay

1:45

spookier. Love a bit of Jim Harrell. And

1:50

I listen to a very good podcast

1:52

called, it's

1:54

like a British ghost thing. Right.

1:57

There you go. Kickoffers and podcast recommendations.

2:00

Now full disclosure, so we're recording two

2:02

episodes today. And... This

2:25

is very morbid to talk about. But

2:27

my mum always said, you know, if she

2:30

did find out there was going to be... ...she'd

2:32

got an illness that was going to mentally

2:36

debilitate her. She said,

2:38

just letting you two know that I will

2:40

be killing myself. So... Does

2:42

anyone want anything from the big ass there?

2:44

Yeah, that's me and my sister, you two.

2:46

And we're like, okay, fine. But me, I

2:49

must have mentioned this before, what we used to

2:51

do is we'd go through a phase of pretending like, what

2:53

you want about mum? Oh, God. I'm not your daughter.

2:55

That's absolutely... He does that kind of thing. He's like,

2:58

oh, you better bastard. What are you on about mum,

3:00

I'm not your daughter. Well, you fuck that straight away.

3:02

Yeah, well, what you want about I'm not your daughter.

3:05

You've already told us that, mum. You

3:08

just told us that. You're just talking orange. I know, I know. You

3:11

better bastard. Anyway, so I also

3:14

am of that school of thought

3:16

that if I did find out that I had

3:18

any sort of... Any

3:21

illness that was going to get worse, I'm

3:23

out of it. So I

3:26

would argue that being a woman is an illness that

3:28

gets worse. Yeah. So

3:30

see you. See you later. This is the

3:32

last podcast. See you later. Yeah.

3:35

Today, so we're doing two podcasts

3:37

today and I've

3:39

done a shed load of research for

3:41

the next episode. You've done a shed

3:44

load for this one. Basically, I'm going

3:46

to be a passenger in

3:48

this one because I barely know anything. Just

3:51

to be happy with that and I'll just check in every

3:53

now and then. Also, I might seem with

3:55

day because I had a drink for the first time

3:57

this year. This

4:00

is a wine very early in the year,

4:03

but I did have a little bit of a sesh last night. Oh,

4:05

a sesh? Well, I had a few drinks before I got

4:07

the train and it doesn't

4:09

agree with me anymore. Really? I don't like

4:11

it. I keep, you know, this

4:14

is just confirming to me that I

4:16

don't like it. Interesting.

4:18

What do you mean? You don't like the feeling of

4:20

being drunk. You don't like the feeling afterwards. Oh, no,

4:22

I like the feeling of being drunk. I

4:25

just don't like the

4:28

tiredness or the you

4:30

don't feel mentally sharp. And I have something that I don't

4:32

like, but I think I've just grown out of it. Yeah,

4:36

yeah. And also has like different,

4:39

you know, when people talk about hangovers, like no one gets

4:41

hangovers in their 20s, maybe there's like a

4:44

point in that. But also like when

4:46

you're 20, whatever you have to do the

4:48

next day tends to be no offense, less

4:51

important. So I mean, it's not like

4:53

you got to do the kids, you've got to

4:55

do this, and then you've got to go to

4:57

work. Yeah, it's like I might go to that

4:59

seminar this afternoon. Also, I don't have any kids

5:01

and I don't have any responsibilities other than myself.

5:04

So I'm a perfect candidate. You're a drunk.

5:08

I don't give it a go. Brilliant.

5:11

New year, new year. New year, new

5:13

me. Yeah, it just doesn't

5:16

agree with me anymore. I find it boring.

5:18

I'm bored of it. Really?

5:21

Yeah, and I'm tired.

5:23

It's like that, you know, that phrase that's

5:25

like he who is bored of London, is

5:27

bored of life. A man

5:29

who is tired of London is tired of life. Yeah,

5:31

a woman who's tired of drinking. Tired

5:33

of life. I'm also tired of London.

5:37

Are you going to move? I don't know. Well,

5:40

I am being effectively priced out.

5:43

I can't afford it. Also, while I'm

5:45

on one, yes. You

5:47

know, I'm very proud of my communion. I

5:50

love Manchester. I know what's

5:52

coming up. What they are doing to Manchester. I know

5:54

I didn't. Is awful. It's

5:57

fucking shit. The.

6:00

City centre is becoming.

6:03

Chaos Theory. I

6:07

don't think there's anything really. For

6:10

anyone that lives there is such. It is

6:12

very much at. A destination

6:14

of people going to the weekend and think.

6:17

The. Divide chains.

6:19

You know, it's all very much

6:22

like, oh, Yes, we've come up

6:24

some quickly, come out and militants

6:26

the weekend and we think we're

6:28

cool. I

6:31

I can say hey it

6:34

adds you know after thing

6:36

is be ruined. And

6:38

then. Although

6:40

it is the thing I'm a to be puts. When

6:44

I got some, I'm just going to Bucky

6:46

Manchester. I. Same. Hotel. My.

6:48

Business, not yours, ah, and

6:50

I hadn't would take another

6:52

ever on go modern history

6:55

if I'm yet I Republican's

6:57

money very stressful. And

6:59

there is now if you if is when

7:01

you say how thought if you. When.

7:03

You come up here you don't even stay with

7:05

me I'm I'm just I'm very I like to

7:07

be a meal with Muthana was like what to

7:09

the another I think she's lights are in spite

7:12

yeah I find it very difficult. The event was

7:14

my to seen a bit isn't. A

7:16

yes will try to say I stayed at your

7:18

house is the i don't know that you've us

7:20

to this said Ill have seen the day and.

7:23

On a lot said said allowed to

7:25

ten is it was cookies and hello

7:27

fresh active out for can work survive

7:29

on this. Ah and the rat a

7:31

bit richer and he goes there. Is

7:34

even some so. And. And I

7:36

said the. As. It always just may.

7:39

A good I said be delegate my partner's any

7:41

that oh. Okay as a science and

7:43

then you won't send a new an Ira

7:46

as a jazz you taking when ye gods

7:48

were is A and I was like it's

7:50

just may, just may. I like to see

7:52

the palpable disappointment in people's eyes when it

7:54

just May. And I was. I missed. My

7:57

point is nothing like that. My friend knew

7:59

that stuff. Not my fault,

8:02

It's. A pleasure

8:04

to see. You know you know. It

8:08

just brings a different six balls are oh I'm

8:10

sorry was offended by that book and then I

8:12

was a some some spend it as a muslim

8:14

mosque you say know that. I'm is

8:16

a one pound sacks If you if

8:18

you have a you're coming to stay

8:20

months assume you don't miss out on

8:22

the smoking yeah you admit he pay

8:24

quit to own invested in the city.

8:27

I'm looking from there. At

8:30

my birth certificate my

8:32

passport place of birth

8:34

mom sister. One

8:36

attain a quid. To. Be

8:38

to for the privilege. Of

8:41

a stain and six at the I am from. I.

8:43

Didn't either and I guess and in my

8:46

in my thoughts ridiculous. But when the was

8:48

governor like we can make council tax a

8:50

second hand like three hundred percent unlike. Table

8:52

now but day at it's. Also.

8:57

A blue I'm I'm one and

8:59

we're gonna have a couple of

9:01

as as an actual mancunian an

9:03

authentic one cause of lung and

9:05

pretenders interesting ios if if you're

9:07

if you're from name know name

9:09

well there's a lot of a.

9:12

Book. It I want

9:14

to see possible and you bus ticket

9:16

please You know how you sounds to

9:18

know a group of people you sound

9:20

like right now as I'm I dunno

9:23

if it fails alone and will go

9:25

Nc bus at a fast as impressive

9:27

own. When said a pair of us

9:29

it up at. Our friend

9:31

Will doesn't doesn't impress his own from the

9:33

is also very bad but also quite good

9:36

at the same time into our a candlelight

9:38

not a right so. What?

9:40

was the same of costs are that will dive in and

9:42

of I don't get. As a Monkey

9:44

Union. Enough. Credit. For

9:47

being a monkey union, I

9:49

get overlooked all the fucking

9:52

time. For. Months.

9:54

Has to stuff for example

9:57

the summers into photography. at

10:00

the minute about Mancunions. Noel Gallagher's done it. A

10:02

few of the people are saying, hello,

10:06

hello, do you want to fucking take

10:09

my picture? Do

10:12

you think it's because the, like

10:15

you've moved and people... Noel Gallagher

10:17

has lived in London longer than

10:19

he ever fucking lived in Manchester.

10:21

And also I hate this

10:23

bullshit of, well you moved, it's like, where

10:26

you're from is you. It

10:30

doesn't matter that you don't live there

10:32

anymore. It's, you know, if you

10:35

move from Wales you'll still Welsh, you'll still

10:37

have that... Whoever you call home I think.

10:41

Absolutely. Now, I am from...anyway,

10:44

I can't be ass. I'm hangover for the

10:46

first time. I'd say this is the first

10:48

hangover I've had. Actually I don't get hangovers,

10:51

I'm tired. Right. I've got

10:53

mine in it. Go on, let's start the episode. I

10:55

can't wait to hear about this person I don't know anything about.

10:57

This is... And I

10:59

mean whatever she...about her.

11:02

This is a...interesting one. It's

11:04

a woman. Ooh, we love a

11:07

girl. We love a girl boss. Girl

11:09

boss. Yeah. And it's

11:11

relatively recent and also she's

11:15

not technically a serial killer on

11:18

paper. But

11:20

I think she is. Okay. So

11:22

it's very difficult to find a

11:24

serial killing woman. So we

11:27

can only work with what's out there, you know? This

11:30

is Dina Thompson known as the Black

11:32

Widow. I feel like the

11:34

Black Widow is one that gets thrown on anyone. Yeah.

11:37

It's a very like...or like Angel of

11:39

Death. Angel of Death, Black Widow. Yeah,

11:41

they're sort of like...when it comes...again, another

11:43

thing women have been overlooked for when

11:46

it comes to serial killer nicknames. Nicknames,

11:48

yeah. Often just get lumped in together.

11:50

Now in December 2003, she was convicted

11:52

of murdering her husband with a hot

11:54

curry. And

11:57

when you watch documentaries about her, you get

11:59

really sick of hearing. Hot curry. You

12:02

know what I mean? When something loses meaning, the more

12:04

people say, the more it's hot curry. My name does

12:06

that very. Have you ever said like your name over

12:08

and over again? I think I only have to say

12:11

my name like two or three times and it sounds

12:13

fucking nonsense. Or

12:16

something appears. Yeah. Like Candyman. Now,

12:23

she seemed... There's

12:25

not a lot about a really life, weirdly.

12:28

Even though it's recent. Even though it's recent, yeah.

12:30

Now, she had a relatively

12:32

normal upbringing. She was born

12:35

in... I will say as well,

12:37

she seemed very ordinary, which is

12:39

very important, but she's clearly a psychopath.

12:42

Also, that's such a... that's a backhanded

12:44

insult. Like she seemed... they didn't say

12:46

normal. They said ordinary. Ordinary, yeah. She

12:49

was a very ordinary kind of girl if you catch my drift. So

12:52

what we've got here is we've got a murderer, a fraudster

12:55

and a bigamist. Yeah. Quite rare for

12:57

a woman. Oh, so she's

12:59

all of those things. She's all of those things.

13:01

I thought it was like a murderer fraudster and

13:04

a bigamist walking to a bar, but this is

13:06

all her. This is all her. Right. Now, she

13:08

was a fantasist as well, but we will get

13:10

to that in a bit. She's born in 1960

13:12

in a lower middle class family in Hendon. She

13:15

was a gymnast, which we'll come

13:17

back later. And

13:19

hot curry, gymnast, bigamist, I'm

13:21

in. She...

13:23

let's go with 10 O levels. That's

13:26

good, right? Well, depends what grade.

13:29

Oh, yeah. It could be all day. But didn't

13:32

they... Is that what people say? I'm a six figure earner.

13:34

Where's the decimal point? Tell

13:38

me where the decimal point is and we'll go

13:40

from there. I think at Wales,

13:43

you are... I think in Wales, you can

13:45

get more GCSEs. I

13:47

think how many O levels slash GCSEs

13:50

do English people do 10? I

13:53

have no idea. I think we do

13:55

11 because of Welsh. She's compulsory. No

13:57

fucking idea. I have...

14:01

three GCSEs because I was bone idle.

14:03

That's fine. Liam Gallagher has more GCSEs

14:05

than me. Really? Fair

14:09

play. I'm at that. Yeah.

14:11

Oh, also I think that is mad. That

14:13

is mad. You're so bright.

14:16

I didn't give a shit at school though.

14:18

I was... I didn't do anything.

14:21

I don't think qualifications are a reflection of

14:23

intelligence or vice versa. No. I

14:25

just had no interest in it whatsoever. I hated school so much.

14:27

In fact, I think I was saying this to my mum the

14:29

other day. I think I invented the three-day week. I'd

14:33

go in Monday, Tuesday and quite often I'd forge

14:35

a note to have an half day on Wednesday

14:37

and just didn't go in for... Nobody

14:39

ever... I mean, I did get pulled up like... They

14:41

were like, well, I wagged it, played

14:43

through it for about three weeks

14:46

and... Well, you didn't

14:48

go in for three weeks. No, you didn't go.

14:50

See, I think that maybe

14:53

with the last generation where you

14:55

do that without like the social services or

14:57

the council getting involved. Yeah.

14:59

Although now there's all these missing kids

15:01

post COVID where there's loads of kids not going

15:03

in and not having welfare checks and stuff. But

15:06

now, you know, when they brought in... Oh

15:09

my God, my coils fall out. What

15:11

the fuck was that? It was my phone in my pocket.

15:13

How was it? But now they

15:15

have, you know, like they brought in finding parents and

15:17

things like that and... Oh, no

15:19

one gave a shit. Like, you know, I got...

15:22

I think they rang me, ma'am. Actually,

15:24

I think they rang me, Graham. She

15:27

was like, oh, whatever. I

15:29

just had no interest whatsoever

15:31

in school. I don't get hated it.

15:33

I found it so boring. Really?

15:36

Yeah. I

15:38

loved school because I was like

15:40

a, you know, group on a lovely farm and

15:42

everything, but that's really boring when you're a teenager

15:45

and there was no friends who live nearby. I remember

15:47

once like pulling a thickie and then by

15:49

11 o'clock, I was like, what have I done? Because

15:52

I was so fucking bored. Hated it. You

15:55

know why? Don't I've been told

15:57

what to do? Don't

16:00

like it. Lexens is what you're describing. Don't like

16:02

being told what to do. Aware.

16:05

Yeah, I just hated that. And

16:08

I just, not for me. Not even

16:10

asked about. Well,

16:12

actually, when I was very small, my

16:14

first school report said that,

16:17

I think this was nursery. Yeah,

16:19

it was nursery little report and it said something

16:22

like, Rachel's a pleasure to have

16:24

in the nursery, but I want to get that

16:26

in. But it said that, unfortunately,

16:29

she sees school as purely a

16:31

social occasion and she's in

16:33

for very much in for a shock when

16:35

she goes into nursery. Which kind of absolute

16:38

fucking jobsworth is writing that kind of a...

16:40

She's in for a shock. Yeah, but I

16:42

was. I was like, what?

16:45

You want me to do stuff? Not happening. I

16:48

love the idea of you. It's like a little like

16:51

three-year-old and they're like, oh, she sees this

16:53

as a social occasion. She's like walking my

16:55

life out. Hello! Hello! Rusk

16:57

anybody? No! I

17:00

hate his girl. Hate

17:02

it. So boring. And

17:05

I am just very much like... It's like

17:07

when... I mean,

17:09

this is really bad. I do tell my niece

17:11

and nephew that it still looks cool. I'm like,

17:13

it doesn't matter. Everyone's like, will

17:15

you stop telling them that? I'm like, do

17:17

you want to stay up school? Stay up school. No point. Don't

17:19

go to school. But you know what? I was thinking when you're

17:21

talking about that, that actually it'd be really good for you saying

17:23

that because there will be people who, you

17:26

know, maybe you've got young people who are like,

17:28

finally school really, really hard and

17:31

you are told that like, that's it. That's the end

17:33

of your... I think sometimes it can make your

17:35

choices easy if you have, you know, certain qualifications.

17:37

But you're a great example of how like, that

17:39

doesn't define you. So I think actually very, very

17:41

great. Not been to college, not been to university.

17:43

Would you have a degree now? Because I think

17:46

you're such an auto-diver. Do you know

17:48

what Tim told me the other day? This is when I was

17:50

like, your house. He said that... He said that he was like,

17:52

she's so funny. She's so funny. And

17:55

that... And that tells me this. And I said, I said, really?

18:00

No, but he said, he was like, it was like,

18:04

later night you'd gone to bed ages ago. And

18:06

he was sat there in the living room like watching something

18:08

or, you know, doing some work. And you apparently came storming

18:10

out of the room and you were like, do

18:13

you know Socrates? There's poison using hemlock. Well,

18:16

I didn't know. And he was like,

18:18

what? And he was like, why didn't you tell me if you knew?

18:21

Socrates, hemlock. Oh

18:23

my gosh, anyway, see you later. And then she's just sitting

18:25

around waiting for birth. Well, I didn't know he was executed.

18:27

That was it, he was executed. For

18:31

corrupting the minds of young people. But

18:33

I didn't know. I read it and I

18:35

went, well, this is

18:37

new information. I went, do you know what Socrates

18:40

was executed? He drank hemlock.

18:43

Tim was like, I thought you were going to tell me something

18:45

really bad. But I was just, I was so

18:47

galvanized. Oh my God, I didn't

18:50

know. I think

18:52

it's quite, it's a thing as well. I

18:54

think it's quite, sometimes Tim's

18:56

very surprised when I don't know something. So

18:59

he told me, he's like, well, you know, the hippie district in

19:01

San Francisco. And I went, no. He's

19:04

like, you don't know what it's called. I went, no. He

19:07

went, I'm so surprised when you don't know something.

19:09

Shit in a pub quiz. I mean, all

19:11

the shit that I know, but

19:13

you can only worry what questions you get. Anyway,

19:16

Dina. Yes, Dina. She

19:20

worked behind the tilt at a

19:22

local Halifax building society and just,

19:24

you know, relatively

19:27

normal life. Her first husband,

19:29

Lee Wyatt, she was, they met on a

19:31

blind date. That was

19:33

a real, no, it was possible, the murders. Yeah,

19:37

it was very popular for a while. I'd say like

19:39

80s, early 90s, blind dates were

19:42

a thing that people would go on. Here's the thing

19:44

now, you can't do that because

19:46

like, what's the first thing, let me see.

19:48

Let me see what he looks like. But

19:50

also like, I'll Google my name. Google them.

19:52

Yeah, very hard to have a

19:54

blind date now. Interesting. Lee

19:56

was described as a good laugh. Good laugh,

19:58

like that. Good laugh. They had

20:01

a son and they got married and they

20:03

moved to the South Downs to a place

20:05

called Yapton. Where's the South

20:07

Downs? It's near

20:09

Brighton. Okay, great. Lovely. I

20:11

think. Don't write in. I'm

20:14

just a woman doing stuff. Just leave now.

20:17

So Yapton, very small community. Sorry to jump in

20:19

but speaking of writing in, maybe we should make

20:21

some time later because we've had some

20:24

stuff to the mailbag. Yeah, postbag.

20:27

So Lee and Dina, just

20:29

a normal family, Dina went to

20:32

work in the Woolwich Building Society in Arendelle.

20:36

Never been to Arendelle. Why can't I say it?

20:38

Arendelle. It sounds like... I can't say it. Where

20:40

else is it from? A-R-U-N-D-E.

20:45

Arendelle Castle. I've

20:47

never said it out loud. Arendelle

20:49

Castle. What a way to find out you can't pronounce

20:51

something. I've never been

20:53

there. Would like to go. Saw the

20:56

castle from a train very recently and

20:58

it looked fantastic. Really? Well

21:01

I've got quite a high bar when it comes to castles as you

21:03

know being in North Wales. I

21:05

fucking hate it when I go somewhere. I was

21:07

doing gig the other day in Biggleswade and

21:09

I was like, ooh, because why castle? Just

21:12

some like humps in the ground

21:14

of where a castle was and I was

21:16

like, you're fucking pathetic guys. I

21:19

used to go to Carrick Kenning Castle with my

21:22

dad when I was a kid. That's ruins.

21:25

Oh really? Do you know where I really want to

21:27

go? Leeds Castle. Weirdly in Warwick?

21:29

No. Where is it? Oh yeah. Where

21:32

is it? It's down south somewhere. But

21:34

that looks dany. Skipton

21:38

Castle. That was one of my favourite

21:40

school trips. Oh really? Yeah, Skipton Castle

21:43

and then we went to

21:45

Bolton Abbey. What

21:47

a fucking weekend. Oh, that was one day. What?

21:49

Oh, it was great. That was a brilliant day. I'd

21:52

be all worksheets out by the end of that one.

21:55

Absolutely loved it. Well

21:57

next time you're in the area, you should go

21:59

to Pen and Castle. which is a neo-norman

22:01

castle not far from his as a

22:03

nazi tea and it's

22:06

amazing so it looks like this scary Norman

22:08

castle but it's a massive staley herman size. Where

22:10

did I go over Christmas? It

22:13

was a monastery. I can't

22:16

fucking remember where it came out. If you're just

22:18

listening for the first part I can't remember. I

22:20

can't remember. It isn't always this achingly middle class

22:22

and joining us this week is Michael Portillo to

22:25

talk about his favorite arrangements. I've said this

22:27

before that I met Michael Portillo. You have

22:30

yeah you said he was lovely. I you're

22:33

shy. No I

22:35

honestly I had

22:37

to put my feelings

22:40

aside because he was an

22:42

absolute fucking delight. Colite,

22:46

friendly, like me

22:48

as a child a joy to be around. So Lee

22:50

was described as

22:55

a quiet bloke, good laugh, just a

22:57

normal guy. Now when

22:59

they moved to Yapton though the neighbors who

23:01

appear on documentary they seem like nosy bastards

23:04

and they you know

23:07

very noticing a lot of

23:10

what's going on if you if you

23:12

ask me. So they're very much like

23:14

Lee was there and then suddenly he

23:16

wasn't which is

23:18

important. So in Lee's

23:21

absence which we'll find out a

23:23

bit about later on she meets someone

23:25

else now she's still married to Lee bear this in

23:27

mind she meets a chap called

23:29

Julian Webb. Now Julian was an advertising

23:31

rep at the West Sussex Gazette. He

23:34

was a keen fisherman. He was

23:36

a bodybuilder. Those two

23:38

don't go together. Loved the gym, loved

23:41

the gym and he had an idea for

23:43

the paper which was

23:45

a makeover sort

23:48

of article and but instead

23:51

of using you know high street shops

23:53

he wanted to do with local shops

23:56

in Yapton. Right. All the clothes and all the makeup

23:58

were from elected

24:00

as a model for her. And

24:02

she loved it. Oh,

24:04

she loved it. She had a lovely day. And

24:08

so he meets Dina and

24:10

is very taken with her. And

24:12

she takes over his life more or less. Now

24:15

Julian was an only child and his mother

24:17

Rosemary, she meets Dina and

24:20

she's like, well, what

24:23

I thought he'd go for. And

24:27

suddenly, within a few months

24:29

of dating, they're planning to get married.

24:32

So Rosemary's like, hmm. Now

24:35

the neighbours, noisy neighbours,

24:37

were very surprised that they

24:39

see Julian in

24:42

the house because they're like, well, where's

24:44

Lee? You know, and

24:46

she spotted kissing Julian on the doorstep.

24:50

So this is very soon after the husband

24:52

just disappears. Yes. Okay. Now the

24:55

neighbours are like, oh, who's this new guy? What's

24:57

going on here? Two weeks after

25:00

she spotted kissing him on the doorstep, a

25:02

wedding car arrives outside the house.

25:05

I don't know what this reeks of. The neighbours

25:07

are bitter. They weren't invited. So

25:10

Lee is still nowhere to be seen. Where is

25:13

Lee, you ask? Well, Lee is 300 miles away

25:16

nuking. He's changed his

25:18

name to Colin Mitchell. What? Yes.

25:21

He's gone into an amusement arcade

25:23

saying, hello, I'm Colin Mitchell. Can

25:26

I have a job here? And the man that

25:28

owns the amusement arcade said, yes, we have work

25:31

available. He starts working there. The man that owns

25:33

the amusement arcade says, why is he, I feel

25:35

like I've missed out a step here. We get

25:37

in there. Okay. Okay. Please

25:39

hang fire. So

25:43

the chap that owns the amusement arcade,

25:45

he said, this wasn't an unusual thing.

25:47

People go to Newquay for summer work.

25:49

Right. You know, this is, you

25:52

know, the nineties, early 2000s.

25:55

He said it's quite normal that, you know, people

26:00

come and go and you know new people

26:02

turn up. Lee's described as

26:04

easy going, he was well liked. There was

26:07

accommodation with the job so he's living at

26:09

work. Of

26:13

course it's Lee, he says he's telling. Now

26:16

Lee was on the run. Why? Because

26:19

Deena had made him fear for

26:21

his life. What? So

26:24

eight years before this, this is

26:26

mad right? Lee

26:28

and Deena had set up a cuddly

26:31

toy business. Every

26:33

part of this is fussy mad. It's like

26:35

when you're in school and you write a

26:37

line of a story and then you hold it over and every

26:40

handbrake turn is like gymnast, hot

26:43

curry, amusement arcade,

26:45

cuddly toy business. Now

26:48

she was a very good seamstress by all accounts.

26:50

Yeah of course there's another line. And they,

26:53

now you can hold this bit,

26:55

they made a toy that became

26:57

relatively popular called

26:59

Leprechaun. And

27:03

you can actually see a picture, we could get a

27:05

picture of Leprechaun. Okay. Ever

27:07

so cute. God

27:09

that'll be on murder abelia sites,

27:11

won't it? Now Deena

27:15

tells, they're selling this

27:17

toy, relatively popular. She

27:20

tells Lee's family that Erlingus

27:22

have approached, I always hear

27:26

Erlingus when I hear Erlingus. She

27:29

said, oh Erlingus have been

27:31

in touch and they

27:34

want to give Leprechaun to their

27:36

first class passengers. I

27:38

don't think of Erlingus as having a first class, they always think

27:40

of it as a budget airline. I don't know why. Is

27:42

it because it's lovely

27:46

bit of xenophobia for

27:48

listening. Then she

27:50

says Disney have

27:52

been in touch, they've

27:54

been on the phone Lee, Disney have been

27:56

on the phone, they want

27:58

to license show. Let's bring

28:01

on Sean for millions of pounds.

28:05

So they're like brilliant. Ooh, Lee's like, whoo,

28:07

yeah, great. And so he's telling his family

28:09

this as well. Yeah, the family are aware

28:11

of this. Unfortunately,

28:13

she says to Lee. But

28:16

Lee, this is great

28:18

news, however. The Mafia have

28:20

heard about the Disney deal. What? Yes.

28:23

And they want a share of the

28:25

profits or they're gonna kill you and

28:28

the family. Right.

28:31

Now, what we'll have to understand here is

28:34

Dina is a very persuasive woman. OK.

28:36

She has a she casts

28:38

a spell over men. Right. Presumably

28:41

by. Well,

28:43

what a lot of men have said about her is

28:45

like, she just seemed really interested in me. That's all

28:47

men need. OK, she just

28:50

listened. You are funny.

28:53

You're so funny. And then immediately they believe in

28:55

the Mafia stuff. Yeah, so this is what she

28:57

says. Anyways, this is an

28:59

inspirational tale. So Dina

29:02

says, Lee, you need to go on the

29:04

run. Lee then reads

29:06

Day of the Jackal. I

29:10

can't believe that I'm telling it. It's like I'm making it

29:12

up. And this is how he

29:14

learns to disappear from that book, right? Now,

29:18

this is the day of the Jackal. It goes and works in the

29:20

arcade and UK. So

29:22

the thing is as well, the people that he

29:24

worked with, he's very popular with his work colleagues.

29:27

But the work colleagues said we actually thought

29:29

he was a bit deaf because

29:31

we used to say shout Colin and

29:33

he wouldn't reply. That

29:35

is so, so funny. Now,

29:38

obviously, there is no Disney deal. There

29:40

is no Mafia. Right. Now, Lee is

29:43

horrible. This actually Lee is getting paid

29:46

his wages and he's putting that straight

29:48

into Dean's account. He's

29:50

got no better man. They've got a child together

29:53

as well. He's not seen his

29:55

child. He's got no idea that

29:57

she's met a new man. Oh

30:00

my God. And he basically paid for

30:02

that wedding. Oh

30:05

no. And he's not gonna be on shit loads

30:07

in an arcade either. So he's basically just like

30:09

living off the bare minimum and sending everything over.

30:12

And he's paying for a lovely buffet. He

30:14

wrote the club. Now second of November,

30:16

1991, so we are in

30:18

the 90s actually, Dina

30:21

marries Julian. Julian has

30:24

no idea that this was Bigamous.

30:27

Okay, how does Bigamy happen?

30:30

Because to me, there's gotta be a

30:32

fucking spreadsheet somewhere saying, Dina

30:34

has married Lee, and

30:36

then like Dina's now off the list of people who

30:38

can be married until she gets divorced. I don't know.

30:42

It was the 90s, it was a

30:44

different. The stone

30:46

roses are happening. But surely

30:48

people could be Bigamous now,

30:50

right? Or is it, are

30:52

we living the buds? It's harder. I mean, you can

30:54

probably be a Bigamous if you marry

30:57

abroad. Okay. Maybe

31:00

there are, but also maybe there's different rules.

31:02

Maybe if you've been married in, I

31:04

mean, one of

31:07

my sadly now deceased family members

31:11

was in the merchant avian did have a

31:13

wife in a different country, but. Oh really?

31:16

Yes. Great. But

31:18

we'll, not my story to tell. My

31:23

favorite uncles. Anyway,

31:28

so I can't,

31:30

I know I'm not gonna, I mean,

31:32

these kids would be annoyed at me. So the,

31:37

immediately go on the honeymoon afterwards

31:40

they go to Florida. Dina loves

31:43

Florida. Of course she

31:45

does. That's where her relationship with the Disney

31:47

franchise started. Absolutely. It is her favorite place.

31:49

Florida pops up quite a lot in this.

31:51

Love Florida. Can't get enough of it. Now

31:54

the neighbors start to notice that

31:57

Dina seemed very awkward with Julian. They,

32:00

the nosy neighbours, they often

32:02

see a man coming home, Julian

32:05

go to work, another man arrive

32:07

for dinner and then that man

32:09

leave before Julian comes home. I

32:11

think she's a legend. And there's quite a few near

32:13

misses as well. Oh really? Yeah,

32:16

as Julian turning up and the man leaving and I guess

32:18

she's just like, oh, we're double glazing,

32:21

you know, that kind of thing. Dina

32:26

tells Julian very early in their marriage that

32:29

she's terminally ill. Oh

32:31

fuck, when people do

32:33

this, it's wild and it's so

32:35

common as well where they lie

32:37

about having a terminal illness. Yeah, we know. Like, this

32:40

is not going to be true. So,

32:42

no it's not, but I know,

32:44

someone that I used to be

32:46

friends with, very telling that, I

32:49

worked with a woman who had told her

32:51

that she had terminal cancer. Now

32:55

my first thought was, why

32:57

is she still working at the Bupa call

32:59

centre? Why is

33:01

she not seizing the day?

33:03

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, she should be

33:05

in Disneyland. Yeah, I met

33:07

this person and I've

33:10

got nothing to do with me. I

33:12

told she's dying. Who am I to not believe

33:14

her? But I got a whiff

33:16

of something not quite right. Anyway,

33:19

a couple of weeks after I

33:21

met this person, I get a phone call off my

33:23

friend and she's like, she's not fucking

33:25

dying at all. There's nothing fucking wrong with

33:27

her and she's done it before. What?

33:32

What is that one called? Where you lie

33:34

about... Is it Munchausen's? But no, Munchausen's is

33:36

actually when you like, when

33:38

you cause an illness, right? Yes. So

33:41

what's, there must be another word for people who... Yeah,

33:43

it's called... Munch, that's what

33:45

it is. I think there's nothing that is very

33:48

low to lie about stuff like that. Very

33:50

low. It feels like,

33:52

I know someone who was

33:56

in a relationship with someone who was,

33:58

it was lying

34:00

about having cancer and shaved his head and stuff and she

34:02

was like oh you know I'd have to take time for

34:04

it to drop him off at the hospital to have chemo

34:06

and things like that and then he literally just got

34:08

up and was like pop I can meet another woman

34:10

and you know. Oh wow! I'm

34:13

looking at Owen here like what? Yeah it

34:15

was Owen, it was Owen yeah. His

34:18

hair's grown in lovely there. So

34:22

she tells Julian I'm dying and

34:24

not only that the Woolwich

34:26

building society where I work they're gonna sack

34:28

me because I'm ill. Now

34:31

she was actually sacked because she

34:34

was suspended because she was suspected of stealing

34:37

What? I

34:39

mean in the 90s that is a lot of money.

34:41

Yeah also I didn't realise that like Woolwich building society

34:43

even had that much money. That's

34:46

like everything right? That's everything. She's

34:48

taking a chair home from work for that. She

34:50

then says oh also

34:53

Julian my first husband

34:55

who also she said was abusive

34:58

was terrible to her. First

35:00

husband she's still married to Lee right and

35:02

she's besmirching him. She's saying all these terrible

35:04

things about him. She

35:06

said he stole the money from

35:09

the building society and he's threatening me and

35:11

he's attacking me. Now

35:15

Dina then says I haven't

35:17

been receiving hate mail from

35:20

him and also

35:23

I've got recordings of threatening phone calls

35:25

from him. She actually

35:27

made Lee do these things. What?

35:31

She said him you need to ring me up being

35:33

abusive and I record this

35:35

because it's something to do with them. It's

35:38

a web of insanity. Like

35:41

not to victim blame but why did Lee

35:44

do that? I don't know. I

35:47

genuinely don't know. I'm not

35:49

again like I suppose you're like that far

35:52

into something. I'm just struggling

35:54

to see like what she could have said to go can you

35:56

ring me up and call me a bastard? Yeah

35:59

I mean I don't. No, it's insane

36:01

Matt fact this is crackers. It

36:03

gets worse. She. Turns up on

36:05

one of the nosy neighbors doorstep thrive on

36:07

the other the ceiling are gonna listen to

36:10

this is I'll yeah I do I so

36:12

I don't think a nosy neighbors I think

36:14

he watches vigilant and prompted them to the

36:16

community and look. At gunpoint nosy

36:18

neighbors book actually what? what you did?

36:20

It was very important Xian plus evidence

36:23

yeah to bring this advisers to so

36:25

fireplace and now. This

36:27

is Awful. She says

36:29

a put one of the neighbors doors one day.

36:32

Clutching. A blouse right? and she says. I've

36:35

been attacked. And raped.

36:38

Poor Guy Lake. Oh.

36:40

My God rather can in is attacked

36:42

Man he's done this to me. And

36:45

is burton the cigarettes as well. Now.

36:51

Leave. Finds out without this. Homes.

36:55

He had it was a happened he had show

36:57

know. He had been there. When.

37:00

Confronted her about what the fuck is

37:02

going on. Doesn't he know. I'm.

37:05

Working this amusement arcade? Yeah, What

37:07

is happening? Julian was in bed.

37:11

And see manages She managed to send

37:13

him away. So she's got

37:15

the second has been in bed upstairs. The

37:18

for has first husband on the dose of

37:20

go they both are opened oh yeah A

37:22

as the first the A the O j

37:24

husband going bordeaux have to keep sending his

37:26

voice mails calling a a bitch yeah also

37:29

Cli stop working in an arcade play yes

37:31

and she goes up your minute knocks on

37:33

the neighbors or he has a right mess.

37:35

Yes Wow! So the other thing we have

37:38

to realize that is paramount they they do

37:40

have some as well. There is not a

37:42

lot mention the sun and I think Fairplay.

37:45

Because. He was up as a child and else is

37:47

going on. He probably just wants. A quiet lawyer. You

37:49

want anything? To. Do that, and I think that's absolutely so

37:51

as soon as I am. So.

37:54

City to June rolls around.

37:56

This. Is Julian Thursday? cry?

37:58

And there. Rosemary, his

38:01

mum. He's a really lovely lady

38:03

actually. Julian was an only child

38:05

as well. She

38:07

thinks it's Julian's birthday. I'm going to give him

38:10

a ring this afternoon. Now she phones the

38:12

house and Dean answers and she's like, yeah,

38:15

he's really ill actually. He's been

38:18

in bed for four days now. He's

38:20

really poor. Don't really

38:22

know what it is. I think

38:24

he's had too much sun. That's

38:26

what it is. And he's been

38:28

drinking. Rosemary's like, well, that

38:31

doesn't sound like Julian. He doesn't do either

38:33

of those things. He doesn't sunbathe. And

38:35

also he doesn't know... No son of

38:38

mine sunbathing. He doesn't sunbathe.

38:40

But also he's a fitness fanatic. He's

38:42

a bodybuilder. Oh yeah, yeah. He's not doing that now.

38:45

He doesn't really drink. He's very, very sort of... Bodies

38:48

are temple. Bodies are temple. Very healthy.

38:51

Now Rosemary says, oh well, that's very

38:53

unlike Julian. You should phone the doctor. And she's like,

38:56

oh yes, I will do. That

38:58

is him. Late on,

39:00

1.20 am. She knocks

39:03

on the neighbour's door, do you know? And

39:05

she's like, I can't wake Julian up. So

39:08

they phone an ambulance. The

39:10

ambulance arrives at the house. One

39:13

of the poor neighbours has gone in there and

39:15

she said to come in and put these, you

39:17

know, the heart monitors on Julian that there's no

39:21

heartbeat. And the

39:24

neighbour says, she says to the neighbour,

39:26

oh he's taken some pills. He's taken

39:29

tablets. So she's getting her.

39:32

She's getting a story in there. This

39:34

is fucking nuts. He's mad. He gets

39:36

madder. So the

39:38

ambulance, the

39:41

paramedics say to Dina, look, we're

39:43

going to take him to the hospital, but we

39:45

don't think you should sit in the back of

39:47

the ambulance with him. So there's a

39:50

surefire sign that somebody's dead. They

39:53

said, good to know. I didn't know that was one of

39:55

the, is it? Yeah. Don't sit in the back.

39:57

Is it because they're going to try and resist it or they're not? It's

40:01

I think it's either that they're dead There's

40:05

no hope so they if someone says to

40:07

you you want anything default

40:12

so Did

40:14

I tell you this that so I think

40:16

I thought just that I

40:19

was with my dad when he died So I was the only one in the

40:21

room so I thought

40:23

I've rung the bell and And

40:25

so I ran the ball and I was

40:27

like I think he's about to die or dead

40:29

and they checked and like no He's still alive,

40:31

but it's not long now And

40:34

so like 10 minutes late he passed like saw him pass

40:36

away and so I rang the ball again I was like,

40:38

I think he's died and they said okay. We've got we've

40:40

got to do some checks now so they checked it, you

40:42

know, they put like a line in the eyes and do

40:44

all this stuff and Then

40:47

they were like just pop your details down

40:49

here. I'll tell you about this So

40:52

I feel like sign my name my number my address and

40:54

things and I was like, what's

40:56

this for? Sorry, and they were like just because

40:58

you were the only And

41:02

he got true crime podcast But

41:04

basically if if they were like this guy was

41:07

sitting well, which I don't think anyone would have

41:09

idea That like that

41:11

potentially the police would be able to get hold of

41:13

me So I had to just like my dad is

41:16

just watch my dad died Can you

41:18

just pop your deets there and put your signature just because

41:20

obviously we might need to follow this up Just

41:26

immediately like yeah writing down

41:28

your address That's

41:37

so funny, you know, did your dad if

41:39

we discuss this about carrying money my granddad

41:41

never carried money Oh, no, my dad always

41:43

had money Yeah, my dad was

41:45

always like yeah, we didn't really like time for things

41:47

I'm like with a card and didn't didn't like that

41:49

stuff. I was like always wanted cash love a bit

41:51

of cash Mm-hmm. I don't know. I

41:54

don't carry it anymore. I don't know in fact, it's

41:56

when you get paid for a gig in cash I meant

41:58

to fucking do yeah, exactly This is a burden.

42:00

Yeah. Anyway. Dina,

42:04

Julian dies. It's 31st

42:06

birthday. Oh. And the... Oh,

42:09

hang on. That must have

42:11

immediately been suspicious, right? That a bodybuilder dies at

42:13

only 31. Well,

42:18

I've missed something out here. The

42:20

ambulance, that's what I was saying. So she's told this. The

42:23

neighbour said, there was no sign of distress here. She

42:25

was like, ooh, I get surrounded in the front, do

42:27

I? She was

42:29

absolutely... Can I put the needles on? Well, that's

42:31

what the guy said when he'd been interviewed. The

42:33

neighbour said, I was surprised that she didn't ask

42:36

if she could put the sermons on. Fucking

42:39

hell. So a poor husband, poor Julian, who by all

42:41

accounts is, you know, people were very, very fond of

42:43

him. He was a very popular guy. Do you think

42:45

the paramedics knew the fact that she's being so weird?

42:48

Or is it just grief is weird? I think it

42:50

was very much like grief is weird. Yeah. But,

42:53

you know, Julian was so... And it's very sad because on one

42:55

of the documentaries, one of Julian's friends is interviewed. And,

42:59

you know, even years later, he's just really upset and he just says,

43:02

what a nice guy he was. And that

43:04

he misses him. And, you know, it was

43:06

just like he's spoken so highly of. And

43:09

you think, you know, his mum, Rosemary, seems lovely. He's

43:14

her only child, you know. Yeah, it's so

43:16

hard, isn't it? Because from that perspective, you're like,

43:18

the only crime my son committed was like falling

43:20

in love with the wrong person. Yeah. Which

43:23

is so sad, isn't it? Well, they

43:25

say that he's died of an overdose

43:27

of antidepressants and aspirin. A

43:31

couple of days later, Deena

43:34

is found on the doorstep of his work

43:37

in a night dress in an overcoat. She

43:41

says to one of his colleagues, Julian's dead.

43:43

And they're like, oh, my God, what? And

43:46

because she was ringing in work for him, very unlike him

43:48

to be off work sick. And

43:50

she said, oh, Julian's dead. And can

43:52

I see the insurance manager about his life insurance, please? What? Yeah.

43:55

Put on a pair of trousers

43:57

for that. He

44:00

says to everyone that he's killed himself with

44:02

an overdose. Now, his mum, who

44:04

doesn't invalidate a lot of insurance policies, death

44:07

by suicide, I think very

44:09

weirdly and gross, especially back

44:11

then, would often invalidate insurance

44:14

policies. Oh, I don't know about that. I

44:16

mean, I have life insurance for what? What

44:18

do I need my life insurance for? I've

44:20

been thinking about getting life insurance because

44:23

just because I've got a house, right? And

44:25

no kids. I just

44:27

don't. I mean, what? I just told my

44:29

fella to be like out on his ear. Oh,

44:32

I don't have the idea of that. He

44:35

could live with you. My last thought being, oh, he's

44:37

going to get evicted. Yeah,

44:41

he could come and live with us. Yeah, I know you'd be fucking

44:43

thrilled. Yeah, in fact, I might just put a pillow on me. But

44:47

that's the end of it. I'm sort of like, you

44:49

know, trust him implicitly and everything. I want him to

44:51

be looked after by us. I don't want to fucking

44:53

incentive because I imagine when

44:55

you're like on like. I

44:58

imagine if you've got a career like ours, it's like

45:00

on telly a bit, but potentially burgeoning. They

45:03

can just put whatever number on there. They're

45:05

like, oh, well, you know, what would she

45:07

have made if she lived till she was

45:09

in her 80s or whatever? So

45:12

I don't know if it's going to mean I've

45:14

got a very high. Listen, last time we chatted

45:16

about a product, which was a deodorant, we got

45:18

sent a free deodorant and it was absolutely fantastic.

45:20

Thank you for seeing it as well. So

45:23

you want life. I want life insurance, guys. Is there

45:25

anyone listening out there who can help me? I just

45:27

thought I think you've got kids. Sure.

45:31

I've life insurance. Absolutely. I

45:33

don't have kids. I think I would like to have a pet. I

45:36

think I would like it. So but that's a

45:38

will. Right. You don't you don't have life insurance.

45:40

So your pets looked after. I

45:43

don't do you. This is it. This is why

45:45

we need help. So I want life insurance. So

45:47

if I die, then the mortgage is paid off.

45:50

I want a house. So I have to get

45:52

my life insured. There we go. Give

45:54

me a house. Give me a

45:56

mortgage. I'm sick of paying some of a cunt's mortgage. And

45:59

that's my. life paying the someone else. I think you'll

46:01

have a house in the next two years. I think

46:04

you'll have your dream house in Cornwall. Chance

46:07

to be a fine thing. I might go and work

46:09

at an amusement arcade in New Kay. I think I'd

46:11

be happy. I can imagine

46:14

your sort of feel-good, can-do attitude of being

46:16

brilliant on an arcade. I think

46:18

I'd be happy. I do. Handing over

46:20

cups of two peas. Absolutely. One

46:22

rubber glove on so you're not touching anyone's stuff.

46:26

Anyway, so Dina, she

46:29

gets a bit mixed up here because she's telling

46:31

people, some people that killed himself, she calls a

46:33

friend in Florida and says, oh, he

46:36

had too much fun and drank too much

46:38

and it was too much for his heart.

46:40

His heart couldn't take it. Listen, if that

46:42

was a way that people died on the

46:44

rags, all of Britain, when

46:47

they go to Spain, would be dead. It

46:49

would be like a mass extermination event. I told

46:51

you my friend,

46:53

Julie, her grandmother died

46:56

on a sun lounger

46:58

in the garden. Oh, lovely way to go.

47:00

Yeah. With a gin and tonic next to

47:02

her. Fucking hell, yeah. Add that to the

47:04

list. Nice. That's how you want to go.

47:06

Yeah, absolutely. Love it. Protecting

47:10

herself until the very end. So,

47:15

now Rosemary, of course, Julian's

47:17

mother, is like, there is no way

47:19

my son would have overdosed.

47:22

Yeah. Just would not happen. And she says,

47:24

well, where did he get tranquilizers

47:26

from? And Dina goes, oh, they mine. Right.

47:29

Now, there's an open verdict recorded

47:31

about Julian's death. There's insufficient evidence to

47:33

say it was suicide or

47:36

suspicious. So open verdict.

47:38

Now, Dina is then very unpleasant to

47:40

Rosemary. He was obviously shocked, her

47:42

only child, her beloved son, is dead.

47:45

Right. And what

47:47

I like about Rosemary, she says in the interview, I

47:51

did suspect her. I didn't suspect her.

47:53

I knew that she'd done this. Right.

47:56

She's like, she's, there's something. Mother's instinct,

47:58

man. Absolutely. Now, Dina. was very

48:00

unpleasant than to Rosemary. She says, oh we need

48:02

to get on with it, I'm going to

48:04

have him cremated. And

48:09

he was actually buried in

48:12

the end, which I think probably

48:14

what Rosemary wanted. The

48:17

funeral, oh, we'll scrap him for this, right?

48:20

The neighbours coming to play again here with their you

48:23

know, information. So

48:25

that everyone shocks obviously,

48:28

you know, they like everyone like Julian,

48:30

he was a nice guy. She

48:33

wasn't very, I mean, you can't

48:35

really tell people out of mourn, however, she

48:38

leaves the house in a black miniskirt and

48:41

a black blouse, waving at everyone

48:46

as she left for the

48:48

funeral. Right, now the

48:50

funeral was at a church in Halin Island

48:52

and it was packed with, oh my god

48:54

I've been there, it's a Portsmouth, right? Halin

48:57

Island. Susie ruffles from that area. Oh

48:59

is that where it's from? Yeah, on the comedy

49:01

bus. Ah, she, um, now

49:04

what people did say is that

49:07

on one side of the church it was absolutely packed with friends,

49:10

family, for Julian and

49:12

it's, you know, on

49:15

the other side it was just her. Just

49:19

her and she sat there apparently

49:21

expressionless. Now this is

49:23

awful and I mean, I can't believe this

49:25

is actually a thing, right? Of

49:28

course, funeral flowers. People have left lovely floral. I

49:30

am genuinely so baffled by this case that I

49:32

don't know what's going to come next when you're

49:34

like, now this is really awful, I'm like, she's

49:36

going to organise a conga line on the way

49:38

out. Let me tell you how bad, this is

49:40

bad, right? So to the extent of when I

49:42

heard this on a documentary I went, oh,

49:46

right? So, lovely

49:49

floral tributes, people have left, you

49:52

know, lovely notes and

49:54

tributes to Julian because he was well

49:56

loved and respected. Deena

49:59

has left so flowers. However, they

50:02

look like they've been gathered off graves in

50:04

the cemetery and they're stuffed in a paper

50:06

bag. Fucking hell mate. She

50:09

just needs to... I think if she just worked the

50:12

paper over the cracks five percent more she

50:14

would have got away with this. The

50:16

note that she's let... I

50:18

know, Liam. I fucking know. The under

50:21

qualified, yet more qualified than Rachel Gallagher

50:24

has just fallen over in short. Oh my god. What if

50:26

he's... Do you know sometimes when I get

50:28

a lot of messages at once? I think either Oasis have

50:30

reformed or one of the Gallagher's is dead. So, the

50:36

card that she's left for Julian says,

50:39

to Julian, because you loved

50:41

me so. Are

50:44

you bored of how bad she is? She's

50:49

horrible, isn't she? I mean, I think that's

50:51

fine. Me,

50:53

me, me, me, me. Okay, yeah,

50:55

yeah. Because you loved me so.

50:57

Yeah. Not, I'm

51:00

sorry, you know, I love you Julian. Yeah,

51:02

yeah. You're right, you're right.

51:05

Now, as

51:08

I say, Rosemary's like, I

51:10

knew that, I know that she's killed him. I know

51:13

that she's killed my son. And of

51:15

course she's correct because what happened was the

51:19

evening, a couple of nights before, before,

51:22

you know, Julian dies, she says,

51:24

I've made you a favourite dinner Julian. I've

51:26

made you a hot curry. Right.

51:28

A hot curry. And he's

51:31

like, oh brilliant, lovely. Listen,

51:34

not to say that he deserves to die

51:36

obviously, but like, of course the bodybuilder would be

51:38

like, I like really hot curries. We

51:41

get it and you lift heavy things. Men

51:43

liking hot curries is the most embarrassing

51:45

thing in the world. Let

51:47

me just tell you men, even if

51:50

you do like hot curries, keep it

51:52

to your fucking self. It looks absolutely

51:54

pathetic when you're like, have you got

51:56

anything hotter than a gel, Rosie? It's

52:00

fucking stone cold now is my vag when I

52:02

hear you say shit like that all the blood

52:04

is rushing away from it I think men like

52:06

your hot curries is a fucking you used to

52:08

go for a curry after You

52:13

threw a comedy night. Yes, did any

52:15

of the male comedians Oh interesting. Yeah, cuz

52:17

suspicious you too. Yeah curry afterwards Yes,

52:22

there is one actually but I think he's

52:24

like I think I Mean

52:27

I I have also colloquially heard these quite

52:29

toxic with women But

52:31

that's any fucking male comedian to be honest. I

52:35

We tell me who I will tell you who it is Yeah,

52:40

but I would also say he's also like a

52:42

foodie so sometimes those people like

52:44

hot hot curries No,

52:52

no, no Yeah,

52:56

yeah, that's exactly Not

53:00

for me For me. I nearly

53:02

did as well. Yeah, I

53:04

know. Oh, no. I didn't know I didn't Not

53:08

for me that person. Yeah, it

53:10

was It

53:15

could be any way Obviously

53:22

poor Julie instead Lee

53:24

Wyatt is in exile Dina's

53:27

alone again She

53:29

then is like right. I want another

53:32

bloke. Mm-hmm. She's got the money. She's got

53:34

she's cracking on fast So

53:36

what's Lee in all this? It's just

53:39

living in this blue Flat above

53:41

the new isn't our kidding her imagine terrified that

53:44

she's gonna make cuz he knew that she'd accused

53:46

him Oh my god, now

53:48

Robert wait, he worked with Dina in 1980

53:52

and he received a card from her Saying

53:54

do you want to come to a reunion? now

53:57

Robert calls her and She

54:01

was sort of panicked, you know. She was

54:03

like, oh, it's you, what do you want?

54:05

She's like, well you've invited me to a

54:07

reunion. She went, oh, do you

54:09

want to come for dinner? And he's like, yeah,

54:12

okay. So he

54:16

goes to dinner. Now it's funny because

54:18

there's an ex-colleague called Mandy that

54:21

is Dina's friend. She used to work

54:23

with Robert as well. And Mandy's like,

54:26

very glamorous woman, Mandy. Also

54:28

Robert knows that she'd been like, binned off

54:30

for stealing. No. No

54:32

any of this. Okay. So he's just like, oh,

54:35

Fandina's asking me to go for dinner, right? So

54:37

Mandy said that, yeah, there was

54:39

a bit of office fun rivalry

54:41

for Robert's attention. You

54:44

know, you're working your board and that kind of thing. And

54:48

there's no, you know, she said that...

54:50

Honestly, no, I can't think of... I've worked in a

54:52

few offices, but I've never worked with a man that

54:54

anyone has watched have so extremely involved. No, there is

54:56

that. Yeah, there is that. So she rings Mandy. She

55:01

said, you know, there's a bit of, you

55:03

know, workplace flirting with Robert and

55:06

Mandy's like, Mandy's very quick to go,

55:09

but obviously I wasn't really interested. But

55:11

Dina quite liked it. Now,

55:14

Dina, Robert

55:17

goes round for dinner and he says, she

55:19

opens the door. She's like,

55:22

hello, doesn't smile. And

55:25

he said there's just no spark in her,

55:27

really. Yeah. So he

55:29

could just... He has a grieving

55:31

widow. Yeah, he has dinner and

55:34

he has sex with her. And

55:36

that is the most fucking linear male thing

55:39

I've ever heard turned up. Didn't smile. Still

55:41

fucks her though. Still ate her food and fucked

55:43

her. Don't worry about that. There's

55:46

no spark. She didn't even smile when she

55:48

saw me, but I will have sausage and

55:50

mash and then fucking hoover up her. That

55:52

is absolutely... This is on him. Whatever happens

55:54

to him. A woman would be like, I

55:57

don't think I'm gonna go. I

56:00

don't like Do

56:03

it so anyway, is that when

56:05

you come here you just eat a sandwich from your bag behind

56:08

one of your own hands just dry bread so

56:12

She rings Monday and she

56:14

starts I should have got this earlier, but you've

56:16

got her here. I've been bothering me. Sorry Shoot

56:19

shoot and for continuity and if

56:22

you're watching at home That's why

56:24

the hair disappears keep that in So

56:28

she rings Monday That

56:30

guess he came round here last night Robert

56:33

and imagine Monday's like Who

56:36

it was him 15 years ago. Is me?

56:39

Oh, yeah, we had sex and she's that's on all

56:41

the gory details And Monday's like not for

56:43

me. Thank you very much Now the

56:46

relationship continues Hands

56:48

of Roberts really into it. Yeah, but

56:51

Julian gets mentioned and she says oh

56:54

Um my

56:56

first husband actually Lee he abused me and

56:59

My second husband died. He was a bodybuilder and

57:02

he had an overdose of steroids Another

57:05

news story. Yeah now and

57:07

he's like for Stop talking

57:09

door a dirty to Medina. Why don't you stare

57:11

me down again? And then we can fuck I

57:14

cannot believe this guy's my sit Like

57:17

cultivating her action let alone maintain

57:20

on he actually breaks it off Robert

57:22

is that Really into this

57:25

You want you but stuff? Yeah, thanks,

57:28

but no thanks. Whatever and

57:30

she was lifted She phones Deena

57:32

and she's like it uniform's and Monday

57:34

and she's not interested in me So

57:37

then what happens is she says to Robert?

57:40

I'm dying actually And

57:43

I'm having radio therapy the sexiest thing

57:45

you can say to someone. Oh

57:47

my god, then Robert Just to like

57:50

guilt him into staying. Yeah, which

57:52

works so Robert that play rubber

57:55

I thought that that would be a real turn off for

57:57

him. Do you know what this reminds me of and and

57:59

he is both publicly about this, it's not

58:01

like I'm outing him. And I always, I

58:04

watched a documentary a couple of Christmases ago, and I'm

58:06

always amazed that people don't know more about this, because I

58:08

think it's incredible thing that he's come forward and said

58:10

it. So you know, Reverend Richard

58:12

Cole, lovely sort of guy who's on Strictly,

58:14

and I think he presents Saturday morning already

58:17

or four, just a good, good nice egg.

58:20

And so he was in the Commodores. Communards.

58:22

Communards, that's it. The Communards in the

58:24

80s, he was a piano

58:26

guy. And so very sort of

58:29

hedonistic time, he's gay, he's married for years

58:31

to a lovely guy, he really started out

58:33

as a toy. And so

58:36

he has a drug problem. I think it's that thing

58:38

of like, because he was kind of the shy one,

58:40

and I think he gets involved in drugs, and it's

58:42

like confidence boost, he has a real problem with substance

58:45

abuse. And during this time, he's like,

58:47

being flaky with a band and all this kind of

58:50

stuff. And so I think they sit him down to

58:52

basically do an intervention. And he was like, well, yeah,

58:54

I'm sorry, I keep fucking up. And I keep, you

58:57

know, like letting you down. But it's because it's

58:59

because I've got AIDS. And they're

59:02

like, Oh, my God, shit. Oh,

59:04

that cost bad time. So

59:13

they're like, Oh, God, this is awful. He might

59:15

say HIV instead of AIDS. Sorry. But he says,

59:17

you know, I make HIV positive. That is why

59:19

I've been sort of spiraling. And so that you

59:21

keep checking your watch board of AIDS here. Oh,

59:24

so bored. So

59:27

he yeah, he says that he

59:29

doesn't, he isn't HIV

59:31

positive. But sort of,

59:33

apparently just panicked out to get him to leave

59:36

him alone. But then there's all this sort of

59:38

like, they're treating him differently. And I possibly even

59:40

think there was like, you

59:42

know, like a campaign to support him, but basically

59:44

eventually had to sit him around and go, No,

59:48

you know, I told you that I

59:50

had HIV. Well, I actually

59:52

meant to say is I don't have

59:55

HIV. And yeah, and he had

59:57

to come clean, which is like amazing. And he was so

59:59

on his on this documentary but like that

1:00:02

feels like a lie you cannot come back from

1:00:04

and yeah he's an elm radio 4. So what

1:00:06

an inspirational tale. I

1:00:08

did work with somebody who did lie about that. What?

1:00:12

You were in the coming arts! It's

1:00:17

a fucking bold thing to lie about. I did but

1:00:20

this person had run out of excuses as to

1:00:22

ringing insects. That is so, I've literally got a

1:00:24

joke about that in my new show. That's how

1:00:26

it escalated. That I recall in sick and yeah

1:00:29

I'd be like oh can't come in I've got

1:00:31

erectile dysfunction again and yeah that

1:00:33

is so funny to be like you

1:00:36

know gastroenteritis and be like right there's

1:00:38

only one left. Yeah it

1:00:41

was I mean I might have spoken

1:00:43

back. Oh what if it's true because like you know

1:00:45

if they're getting if they're ill all the time you

1:00:47

know the whole thing of HIV attacks the immune system.

1:00:50

No it was a lie and

1:00:53

the the this person

1:00:55

I mean I won't be surprised if we do an episode

1:00:57

on this person I

1:01:00

mean this person was is

1:01:03

a gay man and which

1:01:05

is fine I'm talking like so

1:01:09

gay you know. Where's

1:01:11

this going? No gay

1:01:14

as you like so gay. Yeah

1:01:16

okay. He's

1:01:18

now married to a woman an

1:01:21

older woman and I am going.

1:01:24

What like a much older woman? Yes I it's

1:01:26

got con written all over it. Really?

1:01:28

Yeah and I am honestly.

1:01:31

This person clearly is

1:01:33

a psychopath in my opinion. Wow. Well I

1:01:35

can't wear that consumption. And you

1:01:38

know my lovely friend Ian who

1:01:41

I used to work with passed away

1:01:44

recently and he was such

1:01:46

a nice guy lovely guy and you know often

1:01:48

I think because we you know

1:01:50

we stayed in touch but often about everything what he's

1:01:52

up to now right we'd have a little deep dive

1:01:54

on social media have you seen what's happened and

1:01:57

you know he's never going to get to know how this pans

1:01:59

out. That's why you've got to

1:02:01

believe in the other side. Ian, if

1:02:04

you listen, I will keep you

1:02:06

updated. So, how do we get onto

1:02:09

that? Anyway. Because

1:02:11

he keeps on saying, I've

1:02:14

got cancer. Okay, yes. Now,

1:02:17

Robert is like, oh okay, well, if you're

1:02:19

dying, I'll

1:02:21

do the right thing and I'll, let's move to

1:02:23

Florida. What? Let's

1:02:26

move to Florida that she loves so much.

1:02:28

We'll move there and you

1:02:30

can live out your final days there. How?

1:02:33

This is so strange. And poor Robert is

1:02:35

telling this on a documentary and he's obviously

1:02:38

a bit traumatized by it. He says, they're

1:02:40

in this motel in Florida and he wakes up

1:02:43

and he feels like a really sharp pain in

1:02:45

his side. He's like, oh, and she's wide awake.

1:02:47

She's like, oh, are you all right? He's

1:02:50

like, oh no, I've got a really bad pain

1:02:52

in my side. He thinks she was doing something

1:02:54

to him. But also he said

1:02:56

he lost days. He feels like

1:02:58

he lost time. He thinks she was drugging him.

1:03:01

Oh my God. And he's very late. Like, isn't the

1:03:03

sharp pain was an injection? Yeah. So

1:03:06

he said, you know, in the documentary, he's like,

1:03:08

I don't actually want to talk about it because

1:03:10

I find it so odd

1:03:14

and he's obviously still like knowing

1:03:16

what he knows now. I told

1:03:18

you, I used to go to the guy who's quite

1:03:20

a bit older than me and he, when he was

1:03:22

younger, he went out with someone who was drugging him. What?

1:03:25

Yeah, I think they were a drug dealer anyway.

1:03:28

But yeah, he was, she was being drugged and

1:03:30

he tried to sort of like just wasn't going,

1:03:32

you know, wasn't wasn't happening basically. And then he

1:03:34

was like, I think, you know, that thing where

1:03:37

you can sometimes you're in a relationship and you

1:03:39

can see the other person mentally packing their bags.

1:03:41

So he's like, that started going on. And that's

1:03:43

when I started to like, I couldn't stay awake

1:03:46

all the time. I was getting so fatigued. I

1:03:48

couldn't leave the house. Yeah. And then

1:03:50

and then he went to the doctors and they did work. And

1:03:52

they were like, well, there's shit loads of drugs in your system.

1:03:54

That's why, mate. Like you need to stop abusing

1:03:57

drugs. And he's like, I don't take

1:03:59

drugs. Wow! He's choking him.

1:04:02

That's why you can't trust women. The

1:04:05

new name of the podcast. Now,

1:04:08

he is sure that it was drugs, you know, very

1:04:10

traumatic experience for the poor blog. She

1:04:13

says to him, we are

1:04:15

in Florida here, but I've actually got to

1:04:17

appear at an anti-mafia trial in New York.

1:04:19

So, he believes her. She

1:04:26

does, the phrase anti-mafia trial is really

1:04:28

funny as well. Now, they're

1:04:30

anti-mafia, those guys. She actually flies back

1:04:32

to the UK though, because she is

1:04:35

having to attend some sort of trial. She

1:04:38

wasn't in New York, and she was on

1:04:40

trial in the UK for defrauding her old

1:04:42

work. Okay, so this

1:04:45

is the Woolwich catching up with her.

1:04:47

So, Robert's still in Florida. Okay. And

1:04:50

she's taken all his money. She's

1:04:53

taken all his money. He can't afford

1:04:55

the fair home. Oh my God. He said

1:04:57

he's so hungry. And

1:05:00

I don't know what happened. Something happened, but

1:05:02

he's arrested, and he's then

1:05:04

deported. He's

1:05:06

sent back to the UK. I mean, that

1:05:09

is the cheapest way to get home, right?

1:05:11

He arrives back in the UK, and he

1:05:13

goes to Yapton. Now, the neighbour, Jackie, she

1:05:16

says, well, you're

1:05:18

looking for her, but she's actually been convicted

1:05:20

of fraud. What

1:05:23

she'd been doing, she got 18

1:05:25

months in prison. So,

1:05:27

he comes back and she's in prison? Fucking

1:05:29

hell. So, what she'd done for

1:05:31

this fraud, she created an imaginary

1:05:34

customer called Christina Duke. And

1:05:36

she then accuses Lee

1:05:38

of pinching his money. She's

1:05:45

got the letters and the fake messages and all that

1:05:47

kind of stuff. And Lee obviously

1:05:49

thinks- From Christina Duke or from Lee? From

1:05:52

Lee. But she said- So, she creates a

1:05:54

paper trail. Yeah, and she said that he's

1:05:57

on the run with Christina Duke. Right.

1:06:00

Also, it was clear to attacking it because he wasn't

1:06:02

there and he had alibis. Someone's like, no, he's actually

1:06:04

at the He didn't attack

1:06:06

her. That's that's not the thing. I'm gonna go. He was by

1:06:08

the grabbers. He's by the grabbers so

1:06:11

18 months in prison, she's released

1:06:13

and nine months later and the

1:06:16

neighbors I'm warming to

1:06:19

the neighbor On a documentary that

1:06:21

well, we were all saying is she gonna

1:06:23

come back here? Is she gonna show her face what I bet

1:06:25

they had a right? Be

1:06:27

no having a bad, you know, I'm only sub to them.

1:06:29

But what's up wasn't around then On fire

1:06:36

Now she does Yeah,

1:06:40

yeah, cuz she's brazen right she meets

1:06:42

another bloke Phil

1:06:44

trot you're going home great name Peculiar

1:06:47

man if I do say so he's

1:06:49

on a documentary the landscape gamma. I'd

1:06:52

be fucking peculiar after this Yeah, he

1:06:54

meets her in an embroidery shop. Remember? She's a good seamstress

1:06:56

and He's talking.

1:06:59

He says I need some shirts for my

1:07:01

business. I need some embroidery and she overhears

1:07:03

it and goes I'll do it Feeling

1:07:06

custom. Yeah, nothing. She won't do

1:07:08

and They meet later

1:07:10

that night in a pub and she

1:07:12

said hey my friend lives in Florida I reckon

1:07:14

they'll give you a big contract to do their

1:07:16

gardens So it

1:07:18

feels like Brill, you know, this sounds

1:07:20

good and Her and

1:07:22

Phil to take research trips around gardens

1:07:24

in England and He's

1:07:27

very candid. He's felt she enjoyed sex

1:07:29

in public and she was always

1:07:31

posing in front of the camera All right,

1:07:33

yeah with a bit what? Yeah,

1:07:35

like readers life. Yeah, he said it was a

1:07:38

fun and carefree relationship He was having a good

1:07:40

time One

1:07:42

day shame in that felt one day

1:07:44

consenting adults or not king in

1:07:46

gardens where children can see exactly

1:07:49

One day you're in a bedroom and

1:07:52

she's that coffin She puts

1:07:54

a hand over her mouth Good

1:07:56

manner. So it won't shed manners and

1:08:00

then she takes a hand away. Blood,

1:08:02

blood, brilliant. Like Moulin Rouge.

1:08:05

Like every film where someone's got the consumption.

1:08:07

And she goes, oh no, not

1:08:09

again. Brilliant, can't do that. And he's

1:08:11

like, what? So she

1:08:15

says to Phil, don't ask me, it's

1:08:17

personal. And he's

1:08:20

like, well can you just tell me what

1:08:22

it is? You know, because that's pretty dramatic, you know,

1:08:24

coughing up blood. And she goes, all right, I'll tell

1:08:26

you, I've got throat cancer. Now,

1:08:30

she says to Phil, can

1:08:32

you pretend we've gone to Florida? Right.

1:08:36

Florida is very much the other victim.

1:08:38

In the story. Who

1:08:40

knew that everything that Florida does and the people who

1:08:42

live there, that she would be one of the worst

1:08:44

things. On a side note, Phil

1:08:46

takes up cross stitch. Well, I love

1:08:48

that for him. And he's actually quite good at it. Because

1:08:51

she gives him some cross stitch to do. He did a

1:08:54

tiger. He was very happy with it. He,

1:08:56

Phil then finds his credit

1:08:59

cards in Deena's handbag. And

1:09:01

there's cash missing. Okay. So he

1:09:03

tells his mate, he's like, come round, will you get

1:09:05

these locks changed? Wow.

1:09:07

So he changes his locks. And then she rings- After

1:09:09

he found out that she has cancer. But

1:09:13

then she rings him to say I'm on my way

1:09:15

back. So he gets his mate to change the locks

1:09:17

back. And then he's like,

1:09:19

no, actually do change the locks. Which is information

1:09:21

that nobody needed in this story. Now,

1:09:24

locks have been changed. She

1:09:27

can't get in. And

1:09:29

he's like, well, I don't believe you. You

1:09:32

had a fake and a phony. And I wish I'd never laid eyes on

1:09:34

you. Breathe.

1:09:36

You remember that? Yeah. And

1:09:39

she's like, all right, well, been rumbled here. I think Phil's

1:09:41

had a lucky escape, hasn't he? So

1:09:44

what she does then- And then she's sort of fine with that. She just

1:09:46

sort of fucks off then. Yeah, I

1:09:48

think she's just like, well, I'm not gonna get what I want from this

1:09:50

one. So I'll just fuck up. Wow. At

1:09:52

least he realized that she was an absolute liar and

1:09:54

an utter. So she

1:09:57

starts placing adverts in the lonely hearts columns.

1:10:00

this age is this. Yeah, it does. Lonely

1:10:02

Hearts, do you remember them? Yeah, for a while in the

1:10:05

Metro they had a version as well that was sort of like

1:10:08

spotted on stuff, right? Do you remember

1:10:10

that? The Travel Trust. That's it, yeah.

1:10:12

That's like, you did you have

1:10:14

a copy of Sapiens and we're wearing a Mac,

1:10:16

and we're like, then I'm in love with you

1:10:19

and the 500 other people who were dressed like

1:10:21

that. So Lonely Hearts, obviously

1:10:23

it was, you know, Lonely Hearts ranged

1:10:25

from um wholesome to filth, didn't I? I didn't

1:10:27

know that. I thought it was all wholesome. No,

1:10:29

there'd be stuff sort of like... I thought it

1:10:32

was like good sense of humour, walks on the

1:10:34

beach, um looking for a physical

1:10:36

relationship, I thought was like that. No,

1:10:38

they had codes didn't they? So some would

1:10:40

be like, you know, you might get BDSM

1:10:43

in there or you know, there'd be things

1:10:45

like uh... It's not code, that

1:10:47

is it? Yeah, bum curious, you know. It didn't

1:10:49

say that, I made it up. You

1:10:52

know, there'd be stuff like um, you know, oh

1:10:54

there'd be women looking for other women, you know, gay

1:10:57

curious, that kind of thing, you know. I didn't

1:11:00

know that, I thought they were all very sort

1:11:02

of wholesome and then something that's like heavily suggestive

1:11:04

like, you know, physical relationship is

1:11:06

important. 76 year old man looking for a

1:11:08

woman between the ages of 21 and 22.

1:11:10

When you think about it,

1:11:12

it's mad though because that would have been someone's job

1:11:15

just facilitating the lonely hearts.

1:11:17

When it was post, someone's like, oh right,

1:11:19

well that's... Yeah, opening up a letter

1:11:21

that stinks. Yeah, and then it'd send that

1:11:24

to that person and all this and then...

1:11:26

Oh wait, and then people would write in

1:11:28

and then you would forward the message, the

1:11:30

letter on. Yeah, of course, yeah. But then

1:11:32

obviously it became phone, voicemail,

1:11:35

you'd leave messages and people that have a, you know,

1:11:37

they'd ring that on, like sound of that person, we'll

1:11:40

give them a ring back, that kind of thing. Different

1:11:44

time. Different, very sweet

1:11:46

time. Richard Thompson, a divorce telecoms

1:11:49

manager. He answers in Advert Place

1:11:51

by bubbly blonde. And

1:11:54

it's Dina and a few months later,

1:11:56

she's Mrs Thompson. Fucking hell, she moves

1:11:58

fast, doesn't it? Again,

1:12:00

they're going to Florida. She loves

1:12:02

it. And with She says to him as well.

1:12:06

Well, I didn't want to tell you,

1:12:08

but I've won the lottery. Brilliant, right. Won

1:12:10

the lottery. This is a real sort of

1:12:12

like 90s pick box. Yeah, they

1:12:14

get married. Experience. In Florida, that's where they

1:12:16

got married. Very 90s. And She says to

1:12:18

him, yeah, I've won the

1:12:20

lottery. Yeah, and let's live out

1:12:23

your dream, because he's always wanted

1:12:25

a boat. And he's

1:12:27

always wanted to, you know, he wants to be captain of a boat. So

1:12:30

he goes to an American sea school, passed

1:12:33

with flying colors, whatever's all this in the

1:12:35

documentary. He

1:12:38

takes early retirement as well and cashes in

1:12:40

a couple of pensions, because she says, well,

1:12:42

I've won this money. So you cash that

1:12:45

in. And she uses his money to renovate

1:12:47

his house so they can rent

1:12:49

it out while he's away. And she's

1:12:51

got a waste disposal in Richard's house.

1:12:54

And she says to him casually one day, oh, Richard,

1:12:56

would this get rid of bones? No,

1:13:01

she doesn't, does she? She does. Now,

1:13:05

she bought him an Alsatian a few months before because he

1:13:08

wanted a dog, right? A 90s dog. Quite

1:13:10

irresponsible when you're moving, but whatever. And

1:13:14

out of the blue,

1:13:17

she asked him one day, Richard, can

1:13:19

I pretend to attack you to see

1:13:22

what the dog does? What? So he's

1:13:24

like, yeah, OK, I haven't said that. Did you?

1:13:27

We went, Ben, my favorite dog in the world,

1:13:29

my black Labrador, we used to go, I

1:13:31

must've listened before we used to go. Ben, anything?

1:13:35

Yeah, Ben. Yeah, you go, kill Ben,

1:13:38

kill, and really go fucking mental,

1:13:40

bounce off the walls, jump on

1:13:42

the furniture. Really? Loved it.

1:13:45

Yeah, kill Ben, kill. But he was

1:13:47

just responding to like, he didn't know what

1:13:49

the word kill means. He's responding to her

1:13:51

intention. Her... His... Like

1:13:54

tone. Yeah, just the tone. Yeah,

1:13:56

yeah. He got with his game. Yeah.

1:13:59

My dog, if my partner and I cuddle... was like,

1:14:03

like really like some prude.

1:14:05

He hates it. Yeah. And

1:14:07

he'll like start barking and

1:14:09

making noises. I think he's

1:14:11

another person who's like, get your hands

1:14:14

off him. You don't deserve to touch

1:14:16

him. Just another person in my life

1:14:18

who's like the cat this morning. I've

1:14:21

never seen anything like that. Cats don't care

1:14:23

about anyone. Yeah. And then he heard my

1:14:25

partner shifting and was like, Papa is awake

1:14:27

straight out the thing. So it's the dog

1:14:34

obviously bites her. Obviously.

1:14:37

So, you know, January

1:14:40

1st, 2000. What were you doing? I

1:14:44

was at the fountain down the road. Oh,

1:14:48

great. Really good. Yeah. Lovely pulse. She

1:14:50

tells Richard that

1:14:54

she's like, we're moving to Florida.

1:14:56

Happy millennium. The millennium. You

1:15:00

solicitors coming around later. Look in that. I don't

1:15:02

think so. With a green card for you. And

1:15:04

we can leave for you. You can you can

1:15:07

go ahead. I knew life to

1:15:09

celebrate. I'll run you a bath. So

1:15:12

she runs in a bath. And then she says, I've

1:15:14

got a surprise for you. Lie on

1:15:16

the floor and

1:15:19

put a towel over

1:15:22

his face and ties him up

1:15:25

and puts tape around his feet. And

1:15:28

she's like, oh, let's try

1:15:30

something new. So he's like, okay.

1:15:33

But then he's like, this is a bit weird. So

1:15:35

he sort of loosens his hands. Right. Now

1:15:38

the dog, this was why I mentioned the dog is

1:15:41

locked in a different room. Right. Instead

1:15:43

of having the run of the

1:15:46

house as usual. Now she doesn't

1:15:48

like towels. Yeah. So he's laying

1:15:51

there. He's like, and I just felt this

1:15:53

horrible pain. Like, oh, and he's covered in

1:15:55

blood. She's hitting him with a baseball bat.

1:15:58

Oh my God. Then she starts stabbing. in

1:16:00

it and

1:16:02

he's like oh god this

1:16:04

is a shock but

1:16:07

because of so much push it's that slipping in the blood fucking

1:16:10

what he does the

1:16:12

horrible sketch feels for her

1:16:15

face because obviously shot

1:16:17

at the cat you can't really move feels for a face

1:16:20

and he sticks his fingers in her

1:16:22

eyes oh my god this is so

1:16:24

awful that's a very good self-defense move

1:16:27

isn't it yes apparently uh

1:16:29

it makes me feel sick actually though so quite

1:16:31

billious and she's

1:16:34

like oh let go let go and he's like I will

1:16:36

if you stop trying to kill me so

1:16:41

she's he's like I

1:16:43

can't believe this you know she tells

1:16:45

him it's all a lie and he's

1:16:48

like this is my new phones

1:16:50

she's arrested for attempted murder now

1:16:54

this is Matt she goes on trial

1:16:56

she found not guilty what she

1:16:58

said that she'd done it in self-defense she

1:17:01

said I told Richard that Florida was a

1:17:03

lie and he started hitting me and blah

1:17:05

blah blah fucking August of 17 2000

1:17:08

she's acquitted but she

1:17:10

admitted deception and

1:17:14

obviously how have they not put everything from

1:17:16

her background together like how is this not

1:17:18

a big well Richard

1:17:20

is obviously devastated I mean he's been

1:17:23

accused of being a tyrant

1:17:25

and also you know the life that he thought

1:17:27

he was gonna have you know when you're running

1:17:29

yourself a bath and you're like oh this is

1:17:31

so lovely and then something will happen like you

1:17:33

know something you've gotta go outside and you get

1:17:35

any cold you're this is the worst feeling yeah

1:17:37

I knew something nice as a imagine running yourself

1:17:39

a bath and then get beaten with a baseball

1:17:41

bat that is the worst of everything I bet

1:17:43

you can't have a bath anymore now

1:17:47

obviously Richard devastated I can't believe

1:17:49

that she's been found not guilty

1:17:51

yeah now Sussex police are like

1:17:54

do you know what some are not right here

1:17:57

I think they were as shocked as Richard was so

1:17:59

they He investigated Julian's death again. Poor

1:18:02

old Julian was exhumed. Forensic

1:18:05

tests didn't find anything new

1:18:07

though. However, her

1:18:09

accounts of the night that he died

1:18:12

were conflicting. And there

1:18:14

was a lot of circumstantial evidence. She told

1:18:17

one person one story, another person another. She

1:18:19

told some people that he'd killed himself. She

1:18:21

told other people that it was hot weather and

1:18:23

his heart couldn't take it. So

1:18:26

as we know, she'd made him a

1:18:29

hot curry and never got to this before, did

1:18:31

I? She'd made him a hot curry and she'd

1:18:33

laced it with drugs. That's what she'd done. So

1:18:35

her antidepressants and things. She'd put all of the

1:18:37

drugs in the curry. I guess if it's so

1:18:40

hot, you can't taste anything anyway. Yeah. Which

1:18:42

is why if you eat hot curries,

1:18:44

you're fucking pathetic. December

1:18:47

2003, she was tried at the

1:18:49

Old Baylor and she was

1:18:51

convicted of the murder of Julian Webb. She

1:18:53

was found guilty, sentenced to life. Now you

1:18:56

think that, do you say she's a serial

1:18:58

killer? Strap in. She's

1:19:01

also suspected as the murder of Stoyan

1:19:03

Costov. This was a boyfriend she had

1:19:05

when she was a gym trainer as

1:19:07

a gymnast in Bulgaria. Now

1:19:10

he went missing while they

1:19:12

were dating and he's never been found.

1:19:14

Yeah, that's absolutely her. Yeah, she's

1:19:17

definitely, I think she's done that. However,

1:19:19

strap in for this. Oh,

1:19:22

she's out. What? She

1:19:24

was released in April 2022. The

1:19:26

parole, oh, sorry, in April 2022, sorry. The

1:19:29

parole board said she was being considered for release.

1:19:32

She'd been in an open prison. She'd

1:19:34

been on day release and stuff like that. May

1:19:36

2022, she's approved for it. She's

1:19:40

released, she's out. She's out. This is

1:19:42

probably gonna sound very right wing. I

1:19:44

mean, and I hope that people, I

1:19:47

believe in rehabilitation. Do I think

1:19:49

our prisons do that? No. I

1:19:53

sort of feel like with the crimes that she's

1:19:55

committed, she should have

1:19:58

a prohibitive order where she's not allowed to get in. in

1:20:00

a relationship with anyone. She's dangerous, I

1:20:02

think she should be in prison. I

1:20:04

don't understand how she has done this.

1:20:09

She killed that man, she ruined another man's life.

1:20:12

She attempted to kill, she's probably killed that

1:20:14

other guy. Allegedly. Allegedly,

1:20:17

she's allegedly killed someone else. Oh, she's suspected.

1:20:21

I think- You're touching me a lot today. I

1:20:24

know. I don't- She's

1:20:27

touching me as very, very like, I'm

1:20:30

getting someone coming through for you here. Yeah. I

1:20:35

don't think she should be out. I think he's an

1:20:38

insult to Rosemary.

1:20:42

Yeah, and Julian. And Julian. And

1:20:44

poor Lee. Lee's life is completely

1:20:46

ruined. I mean, a poor

1:20:48

child as well, that is rightly not mentioned.

1:20:50

I think if she's been in an open

1:20:52

prison and she's, you know, they release all

1:20:54

this kind of stuff. So she is jumping

1:20:57

through the hoops of rehabilitation. But I do

1:20:59

think just like, you know, if you're prosecuted

1:21:01

for like animal neglect, you are not able

1:21:03

to own animals. I think if you are

1:21:05

like murdering husbands

1:21:08

and like torturing people and spreading

1:21:10

lies about them and playing psychological

1:21:13

games, then you are not like,

1:21:15

yeah, you're not allowed to have a relationship. So yeah,

1:21:18

that's it. The end. That

1:21:21

was an absolutely wild ride.

1:21:24

And yeah, just proves my long held

1:21:26

theory. You can't trust a gymnast. That

1:21:29

is the moral of this. If

1:21:32

we've learned something today, don't

1:21:34

trust a gymnast. Yeah. And thanks

1:21:37

for that. I didn't know anything about her. Well,

1:21:39

there you go. I really appreciate that. Thank

1:21:43

you for that because you're listening to this. I think

1:21:45

so as well. It was in the back of my

1:21:47

mind. And if you are listening, you're horrible. You're

1:21:50

abhorrent. You should be ashamed of yourself. I

1:21:52

think it's quite easy to find out where I

1:21:54

live. So just you go, girl. What's

1:21:56

she gonna come around and do? Hit

1:21:59

me with a bail. I mean what's the worst you're gonna do mate, you

1:22:01

were curry. I

1:22:04

don't like hot food. Um, to the point

1:22:06

where an absolute baby... What's your hottest like? Um...

1:22:14

Dupiazza? Dupia...is

1:22:17

that open up? Okay, fine. I

1:22:20

don't...I like spicy but I don't like overwhelmingly

1:22:22

spicy. Yeah, so I've got to be flavourful,

1:22:24

right? It does ruin your day. When

1:22:26

onions are too strong and that's all you

1:22:29

can do. No, love it. You like it.

1:22:31

Oh wait, no. If garlic is so strong

1:22:33

it burns my mouth, I love that. See,

1:22:35

I don't like...it's when spring onions are the

1:22:37

main culprits of this. Interesting. Wagamama. That's

1:22:39

where it happens a lot. Spring onions are

1:22:41

too potent and then that's where you can taste all

1:22:44

day. In fact, the other night I was googling, how

1:22:46

do you get the taste of onions out your mouth?

1:22:48

Um, we've got other things in the house that's like

1:22:50

a metal garlic. And

1:22:53

it's, you know when you cut onions or

1:22:55

garlic and taste whatever? It makes your hands

1:22:58

stink forever. Well, this is like, it's just

1:23:00

metal and you rub it against it. It's

1:23:02

something to do with how, whatever, that's whatever's

1:23:04

ions or whatever are charged. But

1:23:06

the smell sticks to the thing and just you don't have

1:23:08

to use soap or anything. You use it like a bar

1:23:10

of soap. Isn't that weird? Does it? Um,

1:23:13

God no, I need more than that. Yeah.

1:23:17

I actually like the smell of food on hands. Do you?

1:23:19

Oh, that's fucking horrible. You know what it reminds me of?

1:23:21

When my grandma used to do loads of cooking and

1:23:23

baking and stuff like that. But

1:23:26

flowery buttery smell is nice, but

1:23:28

not just food in general. Do you know what all

1:23:30

sorts of, you know, it takes me right back to

1:23:32

my childhood. People tapping

1:23:35

me on the back. Like, because

1:23:37

they were like burping you. No, not burping, just

1:23:40

tap it. Like, because I used to sit on my grandma's knee and

1:23:42

she used to tap me on the back. So that if someone taps

1:23:44

me on the back, I'm like. That's

1:23:47

nice. Yes. Anyway,

1:23:52

I don't have to reveal too much of my softy side.

1:23:55

It is there. Thanks everyone who

1:23:57

has bought tickets for my tour. I

1:23:59

really. I appreciate that peacock. You can get them.

1:24:01

Are we on tour at this point? Oh, I actually

1:24:03

don't know. Thanks to everyone that came to Glasgow. Thanks

1:24:06

to everyone who came to Glasgow, maybe. No. No,

1:24:08

we're not. Oh, we're going. Oh, that's the

1:24:10

ball. God. So yeah,

1:24:13

loads of dates are sold out now. And

1:24:16

hopefully you're coming to see us. Christ

1:24:18

knows when we'll tour again because it's been

1:24:20

a nightmare fitting this in. And you'll probably

1:24:22

be on tour again next year. That's right.

1:24:24

We're tired old women. I am actually touring

1:24:26

in the year. And fucking hell, you never

1:24:28

stop. I just, yeah,

1:24:31

I'll tell you about that in a bit. Well, I

1:24:33

love that gossip. It's good. It's not anything bad.

1:24:35

No, I didn't assume it would be. So yeah,

1:24:37

thank you very much to everyone who's bought tickets

1:24:40

to the tour. Anything else? And to my tour

1:24:42

peacock. Nothing to report.

1:24:44

I feel quite billious. Let's go and have a sit

1:24:46

down before we do the other episode. Cool for two.

1:24:48

Right. That was Deena

1:24:50

Thompson. I hope you enjoyed the episode,

1:24:53

Deena. Thanks.