0:19

Welcome to edition ninety seven.

0:21

Part six --

0:24

Yeah. -- of Oh, killer. No Filla podcast

0:26

with me, Rachel Fairburn and Kew a picture of a claim.

0:28

Just before we start, we'll do our usual disclaimer.

0:31

This isn't here our worship. We do this podcast

0:33

because we have a mutual interest in serial killers.

0:36

As long as we are doing this

0:37

podcast, he stops us from writing to

0:39

them in prison. Part six. Part

0:42

fucking 6. And if

0:44

you are like Rachel Fairburn, and

0:47

you hate trials, then I I'm

0:49

really sorry that I still have

0:51

a little bit of trial for you. When

0:54

is this gonna end? I mean, We've

0:57

been in the company of the Manson family

1:00

since early December twenty

1:03

twenty two. And it

1:06

just keeps rolling up. I'm gonna

1:08

cover so basically, I wouldn't

1:11

talk about techs. Charles Watson,

1:13

Texas trial because his was a

1:15

separate trial to the three women

1:18

and to Charles Munson. So I'm gonna

1:20

rattle through it with your permission, Rachel.

1:22

Go. I shall listen. Drink

1:24

my tea. Basically, he did

1:27

a runner. When they were sort

1:29

of when the investigations were happening.

1:31

And he went to Mexico, he

1:33

went to Hawaii, And then he

1:35

went back and tried to find the family in California

1:37

desert, couldn't find them. So then he

1:39

goes back to Copeville in Texas,

1:41

which you may remember from what

1:44

eighteen hours ago of podcasting

1:46

that is that is where he's from. So

1:49

there's this whole thing about, like, he has to be

1:51

I didn't realize this really

1:53

until this case that if someone's in

1:55

different state and wants to prosecute it in another

1:58

one, you have to extradite them or it's like it's another

2:00

country. Really? Yeah. I thought the states

2:02

had more cooperation, but I especially think

2:04

between Texas and California, there

2:06

would be like friction. Historically

2:09

as well. So in December nine sixty

2:11

nine, there's basically a warrant for his arrest,

2:13

but it's a very long time to get someone extradited.

2:16

Now, technically, he's in custody while

2:18

he's waiting next tradition. Mhmm. He

2:20

gets treated incredibly,

2:23

what's the right phrase? Well,

2:25

in quite a lax way.

2:27

So he he gets a

2:29

special because he's a vegetarian. He

2:32

gets special vegetarian meals cooked

2:34

and brought to him by his own mother.

2:37

So while he's in custody, he's eating

2:39

home cooked food. He doesn't have

2:41

to wear a prison uniform. They let

2:43

him bring in a record player and his own

2:45

records, and he

2:47

was even in a cell next to

2:49

female prisoners. Which

2:52

I think is a I don't know. It just gives me

2:54

theic. Yeah. Now the attorney

2:56

at the time is Bill Boyd, and he said, I'm

2:58

not having him I think they wanted

3:00

to sentence him to death basically because

3:02

he was a Texan boy and it

3:04

would be, you know, what's

3:07

the word? It's soft symbolic right to the stomach

3:09

because they execute him. And they

3:11

were worried that California would be too soft.

3:13

So Bill Boyd used the attorney at the time

3:15

was like, I'm gonna set this all the way to the

3:18

court, and he did. His

3:20

dad, the attorneys' dad, Bill Boyd's

3:22

dad, was a really powerful

3:25

politicians. So they just did everything

3:27

they could to keep him there. So

3:30

the judge, who was appointed for the extradition

3:33

hearing was judge David

3:35

Brown. And he

3:37

was like, yeah. That's

3:39

fine. He can stay in Texas. But

3:41

then it goes up to the supreme court. No. He

3:43

says no. He's got to lose access. He goes

3:45

up to the supreme court again. And Hugo

3:47

Black said, no. He can't

3:49

he can't stay. He's got to go

3:51

to California. So he flies back

3:53

in September of nineteen seventy.

3:56

Now, this is about the time that Charles

3:58

Munson is on trial. Mhmm.

4:01

So he arrives during the trial, but not

4:03

in time to be a part of the trial, obviously.

4:05

He actually testifies in

4:08

the oh, shut the fuck up. You hear my cat

4:10

squeaking in the background even though he had he

4:13

has already had breakfast. You're a fucking

4:15

scab pretending he's not had

4:17

his breakfast. Yeah. And also not pulling his weight.

4:19

Like at least the dog barks and people come to the

4:21

door. The cap does nothing except looks

4:24

at me like I'm a piece of shit if I die

4:26

so on my end so far. Anyway, what

4:28

the fuck was I? Oh, so he's been next to diet as

4:30

he goes back. He also had been

4:32

on hunger strike during this

4:34

time. So he

4:36

basically is a sort of well,

4:38

a protest. He refuses

4:40

to have any food. He loses about

4:42

thirty pounds, and most of

4:44

it is in the last two months before he's

4:46

extradited. When it looks like he's

4:48

definitely gonna end up going to LA. So it was

4:50

like a a protest. When

4:52

he goes to trial, it's August twenty fourth and nineteen

4:54

seventy one. And again, it

4:56

was buglioci who was prosecuting

4:59

him, who's the same guy, who

5:01

prosecuted the the previous ones. Now

5:03

he tried to sort of look like a good

5:05

kind of southern college boy. So

5:08

he wore like a blue

5:10

blazer and you know there's what they

5:12

call like cream chinos. I

5:14

think there's something else. Yeah. Yeah.

5:16

I can't tell you what a red flag I see them

5:18

on man. You know if I see them on a

5:20

young man? You know the cream

5:23

chinos and blue blazer combo?

5:25

Yeah. I mean, on a on a young person.

5:27

Yeah. Are you looking to see it as an unconvicted

5:29

rapist? It's it's very young conservative,

5:32

isn't it? It really fucking is. It's

5:34

someone who won't get prosecuted for anything

5:36

because they're a good swimmer. I honestly

5:39

Definitely. I mean, you know, Tim

5:41

has started wearing sort of darker

5:43

colored ginos in his say

5:45

older years. He's probably five years younger

5:47

than me. And that they look quite

5:49

smart, but he wears them with, like, a jump putting,

5:51

like, a a night jumper or a

5:53

champion sweater, that kind of thing. Mhmm.

5:55

But I think when you see that

5:57

young foldy look, when it's young people

5:59

dressed older, and not in a vintage

6:01

way. Yeah. This is always met.

6:03

It's always boys. You're right. Do

6:05

not my partner's flag. Got a really a

6:07

thing against women,

6:10

there's more of that sentence. Okay. Women's

6:13

in here from money who, as

6:15

adults, call their father, Duddy,

6:18

It's it's yeah. It's it's

6:20

horrible, isn't it? I mean, I I've said this before,

6:22

so obviously obviously by Doug Welch and his

6:24

he's in South Welch and his family actually

6:26

used to call their parents mommy and daddy

6:29

when they were adults, but that's different.

6:31

Yeah. When it's a young when it's a oh,

6:34

daddy. Daddy. Yeah. So

6:36

when Prince Harry was talking during his

6:38

wine interview -- Yeah. -- and he kept saying

6:41

mummy. It's like, mate,

6:43

just say mother. Sound

6:47

like you want fucking breastfeeding now.

6:49

But this is the thing it's like, I think postpaid

6:52

people are quite often only

6:54

around push people so they don't realize that's weird.

6:56

Yeah. Well, that's the thing you used

6:58

to fucking get a grip about as well.

7:00

You've only been Right. Can I

7:02

say something that he said in that? Right.

7:04

I'm not interested in Prince Harry in any way, fucking

7:06

shape. Let's not talk about him then. And it's

7:08

a massive action while they sort of fuck

7:10

the NHS. Let's not talk about them.

7:12

Can I just say one thing? Come on.

7:15

Right. I think he's been watching something like

7:17

this is England. To try and make him

7:19

seem like he's, you know, relatively

7:22

normal. He does this bit where

7:24

he's like, he's seen a bit from his art of biography

7:26

and it says, oh, It's alright

7:28

for William. I know my place.

7:30

I'm here living with dad eating takeaway

7:32

over the sink. The fuck you on

7:34

about. Who eats

7:36

takeaway over a sink? Is this another

7:38

four sided? Precisely.

7:41

Does that mean that he was breastfed over a

7:43

sink by a wetness? Probably.

7:47

Fucking hell. I'd see the only thing I've heard

7:49

about this prince Harry's room was bits I've heard from other

7:51

people, so it's really funny to see what you've remembered

7:53

compared to everyone else. Just a

7:56

fucking man. Oh, no. Things fucking

7:59

mad. I'll so shave your red mate.

8:01

Your hair's gone. Oh,

8:04

wow. It's a real old pad. Anyway,

8:07

Tex. Tell me about Tex. So he

8:10

rocks up in court looking very smart.

8:13

And he he testifies in

8:16

the the trial of trials months and

8:18

the and the other months and members.

8:21

He has got very weird

8:23

behavior during it. So not only has he been

8:25

on sort of, like, well, starving

8:27

himself, he would also start to

8:29

throw himself into a

8:31

cell walls. The psychiatrist

8:34

was saying he's refer

8:36

he's like regressing

8:38

to a fetal state.

8:40

Apparently, he wouldn't really speak, and

8:42

he was hospitalized at one point.

8:44

Basically, his mental state was

8:46

deteriorating. But they think that it was sort

8:48

of a ploy and that he was sort of

8:50

pretending to appear to his. Like,

8:52

there was something wrong, so he would sit there

8:54

in the witness spot or sit there in

8:57

the box and he would hang his

8:59

mouth open, so it looked like he

9:01

didn't understand what was going on.

9:03

And that's why he was being sort of cross examined.

9:06

And the the picture they were painting was

9:08

that he was a slave who didn't

9:10

understand anything.

9:12

He didn't speak very much. He was generally

9:14

quite silent, but he did admit that

9:16

he shot and stabbed people

9:19

in the tape, Le Bianca, thing.

9:21

They said, oh, no. I didn't kill Sharon Tate.

9:24

And anything that looked like it

9:26

was to do with planning things

9:28

or premeditation. He

9:31

said, oh, no. That was that was Charles

9:33

Munson, or he blamed the girls for it. So the

9:35

whole thing he's going for is, I don't understand anything.

9:37

It was all then. Now he starts off with

9:39

this sort of, like, open mouth. We can barely

9:41

speak thing. And by

9:43

the end of it, he's crossing because I've been for so

9:45

long. He's sort of gives up and starts trying to

9:47

fight his case back and the juries are

9:49

up. He is absolutely fine.

9:52

And probably always has been

9:55

Yes. And he's just pretending

9:57

to try and get off. Good.

9:59

Now, during a cross examination,

10:01

functionality, who's fucking

10:03

great. Eventually gets him to admit

10:05

that it was him who's stubbed shouldn't take. I

10:07

don't know why he thought, oh, that'll be the

10:09

thing that Killa you you know that's a weird

10:11

thing where a serial killer or someone

10:13

will do a horrible crime, but then I

10:15

but I didn't do that. But Yeah.

10:17

Do you think it led us through so famous?

10:19

No. I think it's because she was pregnant. I

10:21

mean, of course. An eight month pregnant

10:23

woman. Let's be honest. If

10:25

you it's a fucking horrendous

10:28

crime and and to to be

10:30

able to do that, fuck me. There's gotta be

10:32

something seriously wrong with you.

10:34

But imagine you know you're going to be going

10:36

into prison And

10:38

you think, well, I'm gonna go to prison and

10:40

say it's fucking out if the other roommates find out

10:42

that I've killed a pregnant woman. I'm

10:45

gonna get my fucking ass

10:47

kicked and words probably.

10:50

It's very interesting

10:52

that I I think it's in his trial

10:54

he admits to

10:57

stabbing Sharon Tate because

10:59

in the original trial of the three women,

11:01

Leslie Van Houten's defense, like, Can you

11:03

just pull you say that you stabbed her because you did?

11:06

And our defendant stabbed

11:09

her after she was already dead, but she's

11:11

already said she stabbed her. So can you just admit it? And

11:13

he's like, I'm not fucking safe. So he did he

11:15

refused to admit it during her trial. And

11:17

he was like, why should I save her basically?

11:20

You I think about all of these people. I

11:23

think they're fucking horrible and they're

11:25

absolute time wasters. Oh,

11:28

yeah. Well, the fact that the trial goes on for so,

11:30

so that was nine months with the other one. And then this

11:32

is another however fucking long. Now,

11:34

well, he's on trial until, let's Steve

11:36

starts in is it September? He was

11:38

August seventy one, and then he it

11:40

closes on October seventy one. So

11:42

that's another how early. So

11:45

He was convicted

11:47

for the lobby labianca's

11:49

murder for Sharon Tate and everyone

11:51

at her house as well. He

11:53

sends it to death. Now he sent to the same

11:56

prison as Charles Munson, which is San

11:58

Quintin, which obviously, you know

12:00

of. What do you think of when you hear San Quintin?

12:02

Johnny Cash. Yeah. In that

12:04

potty matter every day.

12:06

Checking these out though. Get what? What's the gig

12:08

before or after? Yeah. It's

12:10

interesting that everyone thinks that. What's the what

12:12

did I hear? I I was this is

12:14

irrelevant. I was into a podcast yesterday. The

12:16

unsolved mysteries podcast, you might

12:18

enjoy that. And there was a blood kind of

12:20

talk Killa he the way he spoke

12:22

sounded like the way Johnny Cash sings.

12:25

Really? Yeah. It was really weird.

12:27

Really weird. You know one of the reasons why this

12:29

trial took so long is

12:31

because the lawyers

12:33

from both sides were frequently

12:35

held in contempt of coal

12:37

Fucking hell. This is chaos. And

12:39

in fact, the Buggly OC and

12:41

the LADA, they set up

12:43

basically what was like a crowd

12:45

funder. To cover the fees of

12:47

always being held in contempt. So

12:50

they were, like, to the public,

12:52

like, if you want these people to go

12:54

down, you know, we've done

12:56

this thing so we can get this, but technically it's

12:58

contempt of court. So could you just

13:00

cover the cost to get the conviction

13:02

over the line? Fuck you now.

13:04

Isn't it mad? Yeah.

13:06

Now, Texas whole

13:08

defense was completely different to the other members of

13:10

the months and family. He basically did

13:12

that they said Charles'

13:15

defense was, the girls did it all, and the

13:17

girls were, like, yeah, we did it

13:19

all. But then, obviously, Linda Kasebion was, like, it

13:21

was all Charles month, and when he would have done anything,

13:23

he said. And then text

13:25

was like, I'm gonna try something different. I'm gonna say

13:27

that I'm clinically insane. So

13:29

he he's nice have of rises. Yeah.

13:31

What what do you know what? I think it's mad that the

13:33

others didn't try an insanity defense.

13:36

Yeah. I I agree, actually. Yeah. This

13:38

is a very weird So

13:40

he comes forward when he's testifying in their in

13:42

their trial. And they're

13:44

like, you know, this is a very delicate witness.

13:46

He's he's, you know, he says he's got mental

13:49

problems. He's been in a psychiatric ward.

13:51

Charlespots and steps up and went, do you know what? Give

13:53

me half an hour with him. He says this

13:55

to Vincent okay, I see and says, I

13:57

think I can cure him. Fuck you

13:59

now. And he says, boogulation goes

14:01

to me and says, no, do you know what? I can't eat and do that.

14:03

And he says, I can't afford to take that

14:05

chance. Because if you cured him, then

14:07

everyone would believe that you are Jesus

14:09

Christ. Right? Okay. Isn't that

14:11

fucking mad? The

14:14

two pleas were he's not guilty,

14:17

and the second one was he's not

14:19

guilty by reason of insanity. So

14:21

then means that the jury

14:23

have to decide whether they

14:25

think he's guilty, then they

14:27

have to go forward based on that.

14:29

About whether they think that him insane

14:31

would still make him guilty. If if

14:33

he wasn't saying, would

14:35

he still be guilty? Do you know what I

14:37

mean? Yes. So it went on for

14:39

longer than it should because basically he's absolutely

14:41

bullshitting and he is eventually, like I say,

14:43

found guilty. He gets death

14:45

penalty and then he gets commuted.

14:47

Is that what you say? Yeah. Down to

14:49

life. Yeah. To life because of that change

14:51

in a law. He then moves

14:53

to California men's colony

14:55

in son Louie. A a bespoke.

14:57

Am I saying that right? He

15:00

starts sort of like really

15:02

engaging in books. Do we

15:04

gonna talk about their time in prison? Because I've got loads

15:06

on Texas time in prison. But talk

15:08

about his time in prison. I've I've just got

15:10

basically what they're up to

15:12

now. Great. Okay.

15:14

To be honest, I was coming into this hoping for

15:16

a light romp. Wow.

15:19

So And we're only at the fucking finger

15:21

in mate. So he

15:25

starts reading the bible amongst

15:28

the fucking girls. Now he

15:30

becomes a born again Christian.

15:32

Mhmm. And it's

15:34

means that while he's in prison, he starts

15:36

a prison ministry. And

15:38

starts writing a book, which is a

15:40

memoir about basically

15:42

being in the Manson family. And

15:44

it also talks in detail about the murders that

15:46

he committed. How do you feel about that Rachel

15:48

Farben? I

15:51

mean, by all means use

15:54

rights in as therapy.

15:56

But I don't think you should have your

15:58

work published. I think it should be

16:00

used to assist police

16:02

and authorities and

16:04

and medical professionals to learn

16:06

something. I don't think it should be out

16:08

there for public consumption. I mean, alright.

16:10

But I don't think you should be able to buy

16:12

it Interesting. Interesting.

16:16

Well, he becomes a man of

16:18

faith. He becomes so religious, like

16:20

I said, that he sets up his ministry.

16:22

And one of the people who defend him and his

16:24

right to rehabilitation is someone

16:26

quite unlikely, which is Rosemarie

16:29

Labeanca's daughter. Who

16:32

is religious herself and is like, you're

16:34

walking out. Yeah. She says

16:36

if he, you know, if he says that he's

16:38

repented and he found Jesus Christ

16:40

then. Who am I to judge?

16:42

Which is very very

16:44

noble of very brave, very Very

16:47

unique to your faith. But fuck

16:49

me, I couldn't do that. The

16:51

other thing he starts doing,

16:53

basically, the end of his book talks about this matter,

16:55

isn't it the end it says, and you know what? I've surrendered

16:57

myself to Jesus Christ. He's

16:59

gonna redeem me. I'm gonna be, you know,

17:01

faithful to Christ. Now

17:04

someone reads this book.

17:06

There's twenty year old, they live

17:08

in the area, and she's she's Norwegian,

17:10

and they start seeing

17:12

each other. And she gets

17:15

conjugal visits. Fuck off.

17:20

And they get married,

17:22

which I have got very

17:24

weird feelings about. Yeah.

17:26

Look, I'm gonna I'm gonna go hard

17:28

line on this. I fully I

17:30

believe that the prison is there

17:32

for rehabilitation. Right?

17:34

That that is fundamentally

17:36

the point of a prison. Right?

17:38

It should be a punishment but

17:41

fundamentally is rehabilitation. That's what we

17:43

should be aiming for. However,

17:45

when you've committed such

17:47

fucking horrific crimes, including

17:50

that the the murder of an eight month

17:52

pregnant woman. And then you're

17:54

in prison and you get to be

17:56

banging some fucking twenty year old

17:59

Norwegian chick. I'm sorry.

18:01

There has to be a line

18:05

on what is allowed

18:08

because Basically, you're engaging in

18:10

something that you took away the

18:12

chance of of several other

18:14

people. Yeah. Where is the furnace

18:16

in that? I would say, you know,

18:18

well, one of the things that really

18:20

upset Doris Tate, who's Sharon's mother, is

18:22

the funniest he gets these comtrical

18:24

visits. In fact, He manages in that

18:26

time with his his wife. There's a

18:28

picture of them on the wedding day. It's absolutely

18:30

bonkers. Her name is Kristen SVEGEI

18:34

don't know how you pronounce that. SVEGE.

18:37

Sven, Norwegian. Sven? Yeah. Meghan. It'll

18:39

be Sven something on it. That's

18:41

fine. But she gets pregnant

18:43

four times. She has four children to

18:45

have sex. You see, now this

18:47

is the thing that I mean, I can you

18:49

imagine being Sharon Tate's mother? And

18:51

can you or or,

18:53

you know, a sister or whatever?

18:55

Can can you imagine being thinking

18:57

she was murdered you know, the

19:00

child died, and she was

19:02

buried with a eight month old

19:04

eight, you know, not even born,

19:07

son. And you're finding

19:09

out that someone who's complicit in

19:11

her death as now the nuns have

19:13

four healthy children. Yes. From from

19:16

a time and fucking prison --

19:18

Well, you are -- you're bang on

19:20

because Dora's tape, who's been

19:22

very quiet up until then because,

19:24

obviously, her daughter and her unborn grunts and were murdered.

19:27

This this rebirth

19:29

of tax and him being a family man

19:31

from prison spurs her into

19:33

action, and she becomes a victim's rights

19:35

activist. Mhmm. And one of the things she campaigns

19:37

against is against

19:40

conjigal rights for people who are serving life for murder.

19:42

And she managed to get get it

19:44

repealed. So yeah. And

19:46

she rocks up Killa the parole hearings for

19:48

months and on a halt. All of

19:50

the family as sort of a visible representative

19:53

of the families of the the

19:55

people who've, you know, they've lost I'm gonna be

19:57

very blunt about this. She can't commit

20:00

crimes, go to prison

20:02

and still be getting you dickware.

20:06

I can't I I

20:08

just I'm sorry. There has

20:10

to be and it's probably that

20:12

thing of, like, you know, he's he's gone he's

20:14

become a born and Christian. He's

20:16

got married. Probably something to do with,

20:18

like, oh, the the barag just to be

20:20

consummated, something like that. Well, tough

20:22

fucking titter. I'm afraid. I just

20:24

find it if you wanna get married fine,

20:27

but, you know, the intimacy

20:29

and and stuff like that, there has to be some sort

20:31

of punishment for what you've done

20:33

Taking that away from you seems fine

20:35

to me. Yes. Now she clashes

20:38

with Rosemarie La Bianca's daughter

20:40

who's Susan Lebursch over

20:42

this. This is fucking mad. So you know I

20:44

said that she sort of said, oh, I forgive

20:46

him. So what happened is after her parents,

20:48

she had a big breakdown.

20:51

And the only way she got through

20:53

it was by finding faith. So

20:55

she became this born again, Christian,

20:57

and she'd she'd married, she had

20:59

a family, Fair enough

21:01

to even just kind of fair enough so it's

21:03

a press listen. I've part of my faith is

21:05

forgiveness. This is the bit I

21:07

don't understand. She starts

21:09

secretly writing to him in prison. So

21:11

for about a year, she

21:13

starts writing to text. Mhmm.

21:16

And she goes

21:18

she basically is like, I'm sure he's

21:21

sorry. He's such a man of faith

21:23

that I'm sure he regrets doing

21:26

this. So one

21:28

thing she starts to do

21:30

is help him

21:33

get parole. So fucking

21:35

god. So in nineteen

21:37

ninety, she testifies

21:39

on his parole board. She

21:41

she writes them and says, listen. I

21:43

visited him and visited the quote. I shared the forgiveness I

21:45

felt toward him and felt very certain

21:47

that Charles was deeply remorseful of what

21:50

he'd done. That's what

21:52

she she said. Now when

21:54

Doris Tate, Sharon's mother

21:56

sees him sees her

21:58

at the bottom at

22:00

Texas girl hearing, she goes

22:03

fucking mad. She follows her out

22:05

to the car park and says, you are

22:07

one stupid shit. Fair

22:09

enough. Absolutely right. I agree. Of

22:11

course, this is her faith as

22:13

it were and, you know,

22:16

whatever. I'm not criticizing that even though I find

22:18

it absolutely bizarre. But, you know, it's

22:20

not just you that's been infected by this.

22:23

Someone has to take their punishment This

22:25

is his punishment, but he avoids it in all kinds of

22:27

ways because part part of the prison ministry means that he

22:30

gets sort of preferential treatment

22:32

and that he doesn't have to do the worst things

22:34

because he's, like, on ministry work whilst in

22:37

the prison. So he hands fucking

22:39

knows what he's doing. Yeah. They all sat there on

22:41

trial pretending that someone ought with

22:43

him. And he's gone into prison. He's like, oh,

22:45

how to make this easier for myself.

22:47

Do you it's You're almost Killa Yeah.

22:49

He's bright, isn't he? Him and his wife

22:51

also commit, like, decades of benefit fraud

22:53

when it comes to their children. Oh

22:56

my god. Have a day

22:58

off. Honestly,

23:01

can you can you have a day off from being

23:03

an absolute turd? So

23:07

he gets transferred to

23:10

basically, near Sacramento, a place

23:13

called Mule Creek State Prison, which

23:15

sounds lovely to be honest. This is actually so

23:17

quite nice. Chairman. Now he

23:19

gets a psychiatric evaluation

23:21

in the nineties. By the way, in this

23:23

prison, he's given his own office. He's take over

23:25

the Walden's office I need this for ministry work.

23:28

Oh, please. But

23:30

the psychiatrist are like, we think this

23:32

is a really fucking bad idea because

23:35

This is a man who's kind of getting away

23:37

with murder, who has a

23:39

cushy deal, had a cushy deal up to that, you

23:41

know, was getting home cooked meals. Well,

23:44

while Steve was awaiting trial. And now

23:46

he's got this really cushy, powerful

23:48

position. He's fucking doing,

23:50

like, benefit fraud from prison.

23:53

And they referred as walking time bomb.

23:56

And that basically, he had a lot of

23:58

anger towards the system

24:00

and society that they thought

24:02

would come out at some point. Sounds like me, to be honest.

24:05

Yes. Now,

24:07

Bill Boyd, who is his attorney, if you

24:09

remember, the one from Texas.

24:12

Had loads of tapes

24:14

of him talking about the crimes. Mhmm.

24:16

This is before they went to trial in

24:18

in nineteen seventy one. Now fucking billboard

24:21

goes bankrupt. And dies.

24:23

So they they sell all this shit.

24:25

The firm basically he's working

24:27

for, they sell all this stuff, which means

24:29

that a trustee gets it. And then

24:31

the LAPD were like fucking great.

24:34

We can get access to those because

24:36

maybe we can make him stay in prison if

24:38

we find him that, you know, that he was

24:40

lying about Sharon Tate and he was

24:42

lying about this and maybe it was worse than he

24:44

fall. So it's this I can't believe this is

24:46

still going on in April two thousand

24:48

thirteen, which is not that long ago.

24:50

They said, yeah. Fine. LAPD, you can have the

24:52

tapes. So they were transcribed,

24:55

and the story was broken about

24:57

it. The LAPD sort of

24:59

refused to give comment on it,

25:01

but the stroke

25:03

where the press obviously go to show and

25:05

takes family and the

25:07

family the surviving family of

25:09

the other victims as well. Now

25:11

that LAPD never say what's

25:13

on the tapes, but the Sharon

25:16

Tate's family and the other victim's

25:18

family said, listen, there's nothing actually

25:20

important on them. It was everything that we

25:23

already know. Right. But I also think it was

25:25

fucking weird. Basically,

25:27

that they didn't actually listen to the tape.

25:29

The LAPD just told them what was on the

25:31

tapes. Yeah. That that's

25:33

let them listen. Do you think let them

25:35

listen? If you wanna listen, it then

25:37

you'd been throwing off. Let them listen.

25:39

Do not my thing is is that, like,

25:42

I don't know why you would want to

25:44

listen. That's why I struggle. I

25:46

mean, that that's the thing, but we we've never been

25:48

in that that situation. I mean, I I

25:50

guess if something terrible like

25:52

that happens to somebody in my family, you you might

25:54

want to might be, you know, you feel

25:56

more in control of things if you if

25:58

you like I wanna listen to it. I want to know. Mhmm. I

26:00

think the least you can let somebody do has

26:02

been through that is if they wanna listen to something,

26:04

let them fucking listen. Yeah. And to

26:06

be honest, they they were right to. So the

26:08

LAP deal based, like, there's nothing new on the

26:10

tapes. You don't need to listen to it.

26:12

And then

26:14

Debra, who Sharon Tate's sister went,

26:16

Okay. Cool. Well, I'm gonna get a

26:19

basically, an American version of the freedom of

26:21

information request -- Mhmm. -- for this so I could

26:23

listen to these tapes. I know you say this

26:25

everything's fine. And we've been saying to the press

26:27

everything's fine, but I'm just gonna I think I'm probably

26:29

gonna ask for that. And they were, oh, shit.

26:31

Actually, there is something on

26:33

the tapes. Oh, okay. What was it?

26:35

Well, they

26:37

said, listen, if this breaks out,

26:40

the women might go free because text

26:44

is so upfront about what he

26:46

actually does and how involved he is and

26:48

how sort of minimally involved

26:51

the women are. They think these

26:53

women could go free. So

26:55

Deborah goes, okay. I'm

26:57

not gonna file anything then. Mhmm. So all

26:59

this is going on behind closed doors.

27:02

But there's obviously rumors about, like, this is

27:04

very strange that the family don't wanna

27:06

hear what's on types. So

27:08

papers like the LA

27:10

Times and and the associated press are

27:12

trying to get these tapes.

27:14

They're denied. They said,

27:16

oh, it's because it's an ongoing investigation,

27:19

but it's obviously because they think that it would

27:21

overturn the convictions. K?

27:23

Interesting. I mean, I don't

27:25

think it'd be that easy. But, you know, you'll

27:28

be you'll

27:30

be subs to to hear that

27:32

Kristen Watson has now

27:34

divorced Tex. Oh, god. I hope he's

27:36

alright. Well, they got divorced

27:38

actually in two thousand and three.

27:40

She cheated on him with a that she murdered at church.

27:42

Wow. How Christian of her? Oh,

27:44

she's very good. Also, all the

27:46

imagine this. Right? So your dad's a murderer.

27:49

You can see it in prison. What's

27:51

the third and oh, I don't see an email as

27:53

well. This is clearly a joke. What's the third

27:55

part of that triptic, which is gonna make

27:58

you ostracized from society. They

28:00

were homeschooled. Oh,

28:02

the fucking hell. So they're homeschooled. But

28:05

because Kristen's like they're gonna get the shit bullied

28:07

out of them as soon as they find out who their dad

28:09

is. So and, you know, she wants to

28:11

give them a very Christian education.

28:13

So nothing about the planet. I just wanted to

28:15

keep my heart and brainwashing. Absolutely fine. No

28:17

problem with that. Would you know in Germany that

28:19

there's laws against homeschooling?

28:22

Because it's one of their ways of

28:24

dealing with their past. Give

28:26

it a Google, if you don't wanna me.

28:30

Is to stop people radicalizing their children.

28:32

You know, I've got strong views about this and please

28:34

don't write in because, you know, it's just an opinion. I'm

28:36

not telling you not to do it.

28:38

You wanna hold school, kids you go for it, but this is

28:40

just my opinion. I you know,

28:43

obviously, some kids, it is problems and they have to

28:45

be homeschooled, whatever. However,

28:47

I do think it's not

28:51

healthy to be around adults

28:53

all the time. And you

28:55

know, your your parents, for example,

28:57

children have to learn the wrong way

28:59

in the world. They have to be around other children.

29:02

Children are allowed private lives as

29:04

well, you know. Just send

29:06

them to fucking school. It's it's

29:09

just control And

29:11

and and as I say, please don't write in because it

29:13

is just my opinion, and I'm not I'm not

29:15

saying you can't do it. I just

29:17

disagree with it. That's how life should

29:20

be. I disagree. But

29:22

you go for it. Do you wanna hear what's happening with text

29:25

right now? Please. And now he's been

29:27

a patrol eighteen times, and he's

29:29

been denied. The last time

29:31

was he was denied it

29:33

in October twenty twenty

29:35

one. And they said, Nah,

29:37

you gotta wait another five years before you can

29:39

even ask. He is in San

29:41

Diego, California at the Richard j

29:44

Donovan exceptional facility. That's where he currently is.

29:46

Now, he still his church

29:48

is doing very well. Oh, he also

29:50

got done for fraud. Oh, he's

29:52

been investigated it. So he he's had the fraud to

29:54

do with his Killa' births. So that's

29:57

basically like benefit fraud. Mhmm. And

29:59

he also uses

30:01

money from the organization he set

30:03

up, which is called Abounding love ministries. And

30:05

he's been using that for, like, personal

30:08

things. And it's a it's a

30:10

Christian sort of group. So he's got

30:12

a website about it. How the fuck are you

30:14

in prison? And you're

30:16

managing to set up a business on

30:18

a website. You're in prison, but he's got, you know, he's got a

30:20

wife on the outside and then there'll be people who are in

30:22

the prison who signed up to his church

30:24

who'll then do things when they're on the

30:26

outside. Yes. Somewhere going wrong there

30:29

somewhere. Now what he sells is book on

30:31

their website. Fuck

30:33

off. He has a sermon on an online

30:35

sermon there where he talks about the

30:37

four big killers of today, and

30:39

they were alcohol, sex, drugs, and suicide

30:41

as opposed to him, Charles Munson,

30:43

Susan -- Exactly. -- and even

30:46

Patricia Grenfell. Now his plan

30:48

is that when he's released, whenever the fuck

30:50

that will be, but we know it won't be before

30:52

two thousand twenty 6. He's gonna move

30:54

to Texas and he wants to become a tele

30:57

evangelist. No. Fuck you.

30:59

Come. No. He's gonna

31:01

die in prison I don't even know why we're worrying

31:03

about it. Well, they've rolled back his rights as

31:05

well. So, you know, he used to have this office and

31:07

he used to sort of kind of rule the roost

31:09

with his prison ministry. Well, this place in Sunday, I

31:11

can't having any of it. He Oh, they're like,

31:13

you're not allowed in office. You can run your

31:15

thing, but you're not allowed it. And he's been there

31:17

since two thousand seventeen. So I think he's got far

31:19

fewer rights there. And they

31:21

have given him an official role in

31:23

the prison, but not as minister. Do you know what it

31:25

is? What is it? He's

31:27

the janitor. Well, useful

31:30

and productive. That's fine.

31:32

No problem with with that kind of thing. That's that's the

31:34

kind of thing you should be doing in prison, you

31:36

know? Yeah. It's

31:38

a bit feels a bit more appropriate. Right?

31:40

Yeah. Absolutely. That's massively more

31:43

appropriate. Has that really

31:45

annoyed you? I thought it

31:47

might when I was reading. It was really fucking piss me off.

31:50

I I am absolutely godsmacked

31:52

-- Yeah. -- about it. It's

31:54

like I'm shocked and I'm not shocked at the same

31:57

time. It's just really

32:01

yeah. That that's really a nightmare. Do you know

32:03

what I think is very interesting that in America

32:05

where people sort of and this

32:07

is no comment on Americans or people with

32:09

faith, but in America how

32:11

many o series criminals,

32:13

murders, etcetera, convert and become

32:15

sort of evangelist born again

32:18

really quite kind of the more

32:20

extreme, more fanatical side of

32:22

religion. And if they did that in

32:24

the UK, I think people would use that as a

32:26

reason to keep them in prison. But

32:28

because religion it feels like

32:30

is more popular in the United States

32:32

than the UK just as an outsider, you

32:34

know, that more people have faith and attend

32:36

church and things like that. That is actually seen

32:38

as, like, a good way to sort of

32:41

prove that you're repenting in a way that you know

32:43

what I mean? Like, if if over here, if somewhat a

32:45

terrible murderer is like, I found God ever and I'd be like,

32:47

go fuck you stuff that makes you even worse, you're

32:49

boring, hon. Yeah. Yeah.

32:51

Totally. But in over here, people

32:53

are like sorry. In America, it feels

32:55

like people like, well, you know what?

32:57

And then, you know, people take up their cores outside

33:00

of the prison then go, well, he's, you know, he's

33:02

far on faith and he's repented. But I

33:04

think we're very cynical about it because I think sometimes we

33:06

can we I think we can genuinely see it for what it

33:08

is, you know. I think over here, we're

33:10

like, oh, of course, he's fucking turned to God. I

33:12

wonder why that is. But

33:14

yeah. In in America, I think I

33:17

I would say probably more people are

33:19

people are more religious

33:21

maybe. It's taken a lot more seriously.

33:23

Not not that, you know, people they did take

33:25

it seriously. I mean, as I brought up

33:27

a catholic, I don't believe any of it. But,

33:30

you know, I went to pop to mass every

33:32

so often. Keep your hand over. Can you church me?

33:34

Yeah. I love bit church me. Like, the

33:36

costumes don't. Do you know what?

33:38

Great outfits, great buildings. Sometimes --

33:40

Great buildings. -- great outfits. Love

33:42

the smell of a church. What does the church smell like?

33:44

How much does smell like a church shop?

33:47

It's sort of a weird it's hard to describe,

33:49

but whenever I like a when

33:51

a candle has just been blown out, that

33:53

kind of smell. Oh, my worst. Do you

33:55

not know about my problem with this?

33:58

No. So there's always candles burning in my house because I've

34:00

got a dog that stinks. So and

34:02

I love the smell of, you know,

34:04

like Christmas candles have burn them all year round.

34:06

You know, Rachel Webb. And I've got to the age where I

34:09

love fucking nothing more than

34:11

opening Christmas present, and it's

34:13

a nice candle. It's nice but isn't it? Yeah. I think it's it's a nice

34:15

present. It's nice to receive, isn't it? It's delightful. And

34:18

you know what, the whole time I'm burning it, I think

34:20

about the person

34:22

who got for me. I love it. Yeah. It's nice. Is it? This is nice

34:24

present. You know what? Who wouldn't be happy with

34:26

that? My PR got me a

34:28

lovely winter

34:30

themed one. And I love when winter

34:32

ones all year run because, excuse me, I think it makes the house feel warmer.

34:34

We're never drinking some spices and things

34:38

like that. I like winter ones, but I do like I do like a spring

34:40

one. I was sometimes looking really clean

34:42

and fresh is nice. Yeah.

34:44

Fresh linen or I love I love a

34:46

spring one, you

34:48

know, like or things called like English

34:50

garden, things like that. Oh, no. That sounds a

34:52

bit nana's draw to me. Oh, I

34:54

love that

34:56

heavy sort of smell. Oh,

34:58

no. Yeah. Right. Opposite. And I

35:00

mean, this smells like toilet stock or like

35:02

a nana's hamper, I'm not full.

35:05

Oh, I am on board with both

35:07

of them. In fact, if

35:09

you were to put a like a personal fragrance,

35:11

it would definitely be called Nana's armpit. Nana's

35:14

outfit. Yeah. That's definitely it.

35:16

But doesn't that sound like a speakeasy as

35:18

well and like the linen

35:20

and thirties? No. It it sounds like

35:22

a bow that someone's opened in the northern quarter in Manchester.

35:24

So fucking hipster sweats opened

35:28

it. And you've got to walk, you know, like into a beer salad before you're

35:30

allowed to go to it, but you've got to, like, lift up

35:32

an old cinema seat and then climb through the gap

35:34

in the middle, which means that no fat people

35:36

can go. Did I tell about

35:38

the barrie manches that I went to?

35:40

I asked for a wine for somebody to

35:42

get me a sports direct mug and

35:45

I went I'm really sorry, but my friend's not drinking

35:47

out of that. So can I have

35:49

a glass, please?

35:52

Anyway, It ended up with me being

35:54

told to leave the bar. Are you serious? Yeah. So I

35:56

was like, what? On okay. Fine.

36:00

And we all left. And I I got a satisfied with the bounce.

36:02

And are they fucking really when, look,

36:04

he said to do this all the time. And I was like,

36:06

what a bunch of hits to concerts? He's like, yeah.

36:09

Well, I won't say what I said as I was asked as as as I

36:11

left, but we'll keep that bit in the

36:14

bar. But, yeah, absolute

36:17

fucking one, because That I mean, that's totally reasonable. All I said

36:19

was, oh, I'm ever so sorry. I can't ever think my friend's

36:21

not drinking out of that. That is that's

36:24

reasonable. I'm paying seven quid for a fucking glass of

36:26

wine. I want it in

36:28

a glass Yeah. I agree. I totally agree. The sports are egg

36:30

do you know what that is as well? That's that fetishization

36:34

of poverty? Abs

36:36

of fucking loot by people

36:38

who don't experience it? Yeah. There's

36:40

so many problems with it. Like, oh, well, like,

36:42

that's that's all we have. Like, That's

36:45

how we serve our wine. That's kind of what

36:47

we do here. Is

36:50

it? What are you fucking wild

36:52

bird? Anyway, I'm not gonna get

36:54

into that. That's it. You know what? I

36:56

it annoyed me so much that. I don't even want it in my memory.

36:58

Okay. Sorry. Well, I

37:01

was talking about candles. Thanks

37:04

so. Every night one, my partner and I go

37:06

to bed will sort of

37:08

like, you know, you do the rounds. So you, like, switch

37:10

all the lights off. Check the doors. No

37:12

bother candles. Stuff out the kind

37:14

of kiss the dog goodbye. Also now shut the little cut

37:16

in his cage. So

37:20

On my dog, you may or may not know as a broken back,

37:22

so he can't feel his back legs, so he can't walk.

37:24

So as a little cage, you've got

37:26

a wheelchair is fine. Yeah. He's fine.

37:29

It's the most popular geography. Fucking

37:31

how do you go? Yeah. He's

37:33

happier because he gets carried everywhere

37:35

he wants to go, or he's in his wheelchair

37:37

chasing shit round. So at the

37:39

time, he's fine. He's having a very good time. So he's in

37:41

his little cage where he can watch

37:44

everything. And we leave we never shut the

37:46

door on it. We never, you know, because it's one of those

37:48

dog cages a crate where you can transport them. We just leave it open

37:50

so we can, like, busy himself and, like, help

37:52

himself to water and stuff.

37:54

Well, let me fucking

37:56

tell you For a dog that can't walk, can get up living

37:58

room every night and clear up any chocolate

38:00

or food that's been left in there. No.

38:02

Yeah. And we haven't been, like, we've

38:04

been much more lucky since

38:07

he's been disabled about, like, not you know, you do a sweep

38:09

when you got a dog, like, oh, don't leave anything

38:11

they could eat at, like, sort

38:13

of nose level. Be like, it's

38:15

fine. He's he's in his cage. He can't walk.

38:17

Well, the little stunt has been making his

38:20

way into the living room of an

38:22

evening. He has taken

38:24

a while without his fucking wheels on, mate. Yeah. Without his wheels

38:26

on, like, a seal. So he

38:28

climbs out of his cage, which

38:30

is like, he's gotta sort of jump over the

38:32

first pair. And then he takes

38:34

himself through the kitchen. Oh,

38:36

he also goes through the kitchen as well because we've

38:38

now put a baby gate across into the living

38:40

room to stop him from

38:42

doing overnight. He found that. And then he

38:44

was like, alright, walking over the kitchen, found two fat balls meant for the birds, and then

38:46

spent the whole day pissing out his ass as

38:48

a result of it. Oh

38:51

my god. Don't message me about chocolate. He's fine. We've had him

38:53

check with the vets all good, but

38:55

he hasn't chocolate. whole

38:58

box of crackers for cheese. He

39:00

had those rosemary flavored ones. He

39:02

had those Christmas Eve too. Yeah.

39:05

Would you know what the other thing? Yeah. You know

39:07

you know, matchsticks you have at Christmas? Yeah. Yeah.

39:09

Yeah. Yeah. What'd he got it the wrong way around? Because he

39:11

ate an actual box of

39:14

wooden matchsticks. I think it's because that's the one I used to

39:16

like the candles, but by where I also eat

39:18

the food, so I must have picked it up and had like

39:20

food on my hands. And he's been like, this

39:22

smells like

39:24

food. And then just ripped open the box and matches, ate some

39:26

of them and then went, oh, that's not what I was after.

39:28

And then he'd he'd reposition himself back

39:31

in his cage. No.

39:34

He sometimes would this is the thing is he will

39:36

go, what have I done? If anyone's got

39:38

dogs, they will know this that they sometimes go.

39:42

You can see them almost with their head and their hand shaking their head, like, what have I done? And

39:44

I told her, oh, back if I could. So he's

39:46

basically as far as he can be away

39:48

from us, which is the door to

39:50

the outside to the garden, and he's looking as like a fucked

39:53

up big style guys as

39:55

there's like a trail of devastation

39:57

behind him when he's basically

39:59

trying to leave the house before we get

40:02

up. No. He's

40:04

fucking He's trying to get out of the house. Yes.

40:06

He's trying to get out of the house. He's appalling.

40:10

Oh, god. All this is me trying

40:12

to say. One of the things we do when

40:14

we're doing the checks is

40:16

my partner I have to go up the stairs

40:18

and he has to blow the candles up because the smell of a snuffed out candle

40:20

makes me feel fucking violently I

40:23

hate it. It's disgusting. It's

40:26

disgusting. Oh, I love it. No.

40:28

No. No. No. No. No. No. That's what I said. And I was like,

40:30

you hate it. It's the see kind

40:32

of like, oh, I don't like it. How

40:34

weird? I think that's one of the the

40:36

nice smiles in life there. No.

40:39

And sometimes I'll be like dozing on the sofa

40:41

and, you know, the candle will burn down to the

40:43

end and the smell of it going out will

40:45

wake me up. So weird. I

40:47

find it disagreeable. Wow. We should talk about the

40:49

other comps. Okay. Well, here's the other

40:52

comps. I've got point form

40:54

here. Leslie

40:56

Van Houghton. She's still in prison.

40:58

Mhmm. She's done a degree,

41:00

and she runs self help

41:02

groups. She's had twenty per roles

41:04

denied. Okay. Patricia

41:06

Krumwinkle, who when she

41:08

shaved her hair was an

41:10

absolute wing knot, wasn't

41:12

she? See, I

41:14

sticky out is. I think they're quite charming.

41:16

I do. I thank you. It's such a

41:18

disagreeable person. I will call her

41:20

a wing knot. She is in prison still.

41:23

She's known as cranny.

41:26

Cranny. Cranny,

41:28

she's done a degree. And she's

41:31

been denied parole ten times. Susan

41:34

Atkins, one of the biggest comps in this

41:36

whole saga. She is she is. I've got

41:38

loads of

41:40

flat as well. Became born again, Christian.

41:42

Got married twice in prison. Two

41:44

thousand nine, she died of brain cancer.

41:48

She knew it wasn't. She never stopped fighting back in prison. So she

41:50

didn't use to have regular psychiatric

41:52

evaluations, and she would argue

41:54

all the way through them She

41:56

often refused to do them. She'd be very defensive. She just wouldn't. And this

41:58

is part of her parole is that

42:01

she have these examinations. And

42:03

in two thousand one of the people who

42:05

is assessing her said to the

42:08

parole board, I can only

42:10

conclude based on her behavior that she still

42:12

has a serious problem with authority and

42:14

has an assumed an extremely adversarial

42:16

approach to psychiatric evaluation.

42:19

Okay. So this is very strange

42:21

thing that they do. In June two thousand five,

42:23

she's up for parole again. And they

42:25

bring the victim's families in. Basically, they say, kind of,

42:27

have you got anything to

42:29

say for yourself? And

42:31

she refuses to talk about the crimes or apologize for

42:34

them in front of the families.

42:36

Mhmm. Now the math

42:38

thing about that is that if she had said,

42:40

I did this And I'm sorry for this, and

42:43

I want to apologize. She probably would

42:45

have got parole. Mhmm. But

42:47

her refusal to acknowledge that she

42:49

did anything wrong. This is

42:52

her mother thing. So she's in

42:54

the prison. They have a special sort of

42:56

chain of gyms called curves. Where the

42:59

women work out. And in two thousand eight, she was doing an exercise class there, and

43:01

she had a fucking massive seizure.

43:03

And that's when they found out that she

43:05

had brain cancer. So

43:08

she's dead a year later? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

43:10

she has she has quite a hard time with the house

43:12

in the end there. She has a a leg amputated

43:15

and yeah. Then she never

43:18

really recovered from that. And they

43:20

tried to get her released at the end of her life.

43:22

You know, because you can get is it compassionate

43:24

release when someone's dying? Yeah. I mean, where's she gonna

43:26

go there? Well, indeed. But you know, if the fucking

43:28

craze, you you know, plenty

43:30

of awful people get compassionate release. I

43:32

mean, to be honest with you, having

43:34

brain cancer, probably better off in

43:36

prison. You're gonna get treated. Yeah,

43:38

maybe. But you know one of the people

43:40

who came out and said, yeah, let

43:42

her kind of die at home or out

43:44

of prison. Is a

43:47

is Vincent Bubliosi, the

43:49

former prosecutor, and he actually

43:51

petitioned for it. And he said, listen, just because she

43:53

showed no mercy, it doesn't mean

43:56

that we should be as intuitive as

43:58

heller and show her

44:00

no mercy. Well,

44:02

whatever. You know, everyone's in town

44:04

to their opinion. I'm saying Well, Debjitite,

44:07

you know, Sharon's sister was like,

44:09

keep it locked up. I've got loads of

44:11

compassion, but she can she can just

44:13

die in jail quite frankly. Yeah. I mean, I mean, don't get

44:15

around. I'm so sorry she's got brain cancer and that must

44:17

be horrific. And I hope, you know, you should be

44:19

treated compassionately with that and treat it to the best of of

44:21

the medical ability, but you

44:24

still look on -- Yes. -- stay where

44:26

you are. She's still a con yeah.

44:28

So, yeah, she was denied denied compassionate release,

44:30

and she yeah. Like you said, she died

44:32

September twenty fourth two thousand and

44:35

nine in prison. Speak to prison gyms. I've

44:37

definitely mentioned this before. A friend of mine knows a prison

44:40

chaplain who Filla at the prison that

44:42

rolls Westies

44:44

in. What, passed and saw her on a cross trainer. That was

44:46

so weird. It's so fucking

44:48

weird. That pops into my head about

44:51

three times a year, you know. Rums

44:54

crossed the cross I imagine you're in,

44:56

like, eighties workout gear as well. Bobby

45:00

Boseley. Yes.

45:02

He's in a medical facility prison. He's at his parole

45:04

denied. He's going nowhere. He's still

45:06

making music in jail, which should be

45:09

pleased to know. Well,

45:12

Charles Munson. Now one of his former followers

45:14

says Charles Munson got away

45:16

with everything. People will say he's in exactly

45:18

where he wants to be.

45:22

So he I

45:24

mean, it don't forget he is someone who always wanted to go back to prison.

45:26

So he applied for parole

45:28

numerous times. He was in

45:32

maximum security prison. He was always

45:34

refused parole. Now, he

45:36

was a fucking troublemaker. He

45:38

assaulted about half a dozen

45:42

prison guards during his time there. He

45:44

worked in the prison chapel from about

45:46

nineteen eighty,

45:48

and he This is fucking

45:50

mad. Here's all the things he had stashed in the

45:52

prison chapel. Weed.

45:54

A hundred feet of

45:58

nylon rope. Right. And you'll love this one, Rachel. A

46:00

male order catalog for hot air

46:02

balloons. Brilliant. What was he planning?

46:04

And what if I

46:06

could get

46:08

away? Now, he he wrote a book. And did he

46:10

say to someone on the outside, hey, listen.

46:12

I want some things that gonna get me high

46:14

and he got weed and that's all miss

46:17

interpreting it and gave the hot air

46:19

balloon catalog. He wrote

46:21

a book in nineteen

46:24

eighty six called Manson in his

46:26

own words. It's a

46:28

mad. The the bits I've read from it are

46:30

crackers heat. There's a there's a quote about him

46:32

saying, yeah, my eyes are cameras and my

46:34

mind is tuned to more television channels than

46:37

existing your world, and it suffers

46:39

no censorship. Through it, I have a world

46:41

and the universe as my own,

46:43

like, okay, babies. That's fucking shit night, if I'm honest. They

46:46

in November two thousand and

46:48

fourteen, the California Department

46:51

of Corrections gets eighty e mail

46:53

saying, can you please grant a marriage

46:56

license to this eighty year old

46:58

man, his name is

47:00

Charles Munson. Emmie,

47:02

she married a few times, isn't it? This is a I

47:05

think it's married twice. Right? After the

47:07

Lane Burton is twenty six

47:10

years old. And

47:12

was petitioning for his

47:14

release, and she says, I love

47:16

him. I'm with him. There's all kinds

47:18

of things, which I think means that

47:20

they're banging. And

47:22

obviously, Debratte who's remained a campaign.

47:24

It was like, I think this is fucking

47:26

insane and said, this is

47:28

proof that the devil is alive and well.

47:30

I just tell me where does it end for people that have been

47:32

affected by what these people have done

47:35

to keep hearing about

47:38

these constant, you know, freedoms that

47:40

they get and perks really.

47:42

Yeah. I just think it's out

47:44

of order. He is also found

47:48

with a fucking mobile phone in two thousand and

47:50

nine. And he'd been phoning how to use

47:52

one of them. But he'd been

47:54

phoning people

47:56

in Florida, California, New Jersey, British Columbia. They don't

47:58

know who, and they don't know who's even in.

48:00

I don't know. I'm they

48:03

don't know what he was doing, but they were like,

48:05

we can't prove it was used. You know, I reckon

48:07

I reckon that's probably people that have written to him and

48:09

in some coded way of managed to give these

48:11

fuck the phone number. I think it's that as

48:13

well. Yeah. Yeah. And they said that they couldn't

48:15

prove though that he committed a crime with it. So

48:17

it was just a violation. It wasn't

48:20

an act criminal act, which means it didn't affect his

48:22

sentence. But he's obviously

48:24

repeatedly denied parole. Also,

48:26

one of the reasons why is

48:28

that he was a fucking

48:30

troublemaker and apparently he was

48:32

really controlling over the

48:34

inmates. They think that he had

48:36

schizophrenia and paranoid

48:38

delusional disorder. Not those are the things that mean that you should be put in prison, but

48:40

that combined with his past -- Mhmm. -- was

48:42

a pretty compelling reason to keep him

48:44

in there. They thought he was still

48:46

a danger. I think he

48:48

dies waiting for another parole

48:50

thing. Yes. I mean, he's going

48:52

nowhere anyway.

48:54

No. dies

48:56

in two thousand seventeen. He's in

48:58

hospital at this point in California

49:01

of natural causes It's November the

49:03

nineteenth, and he passes away. He eighty three years old, which is a fucking

49:06

good old age. Isn't it? Not a

49:08

bad innings? So

49:10

I think we've covered have we covered everyone? Now it's

49:12

a couple more. What I will say about Charles Manson as

49:14

well. I was doing so I

49:17

was god. During the first lockdown, I went down a rabbit hole

49:19

of looking at stuff. I ended up on

49:22

a a murder bellier website to

49:24

start a curiosity and you could have you

49:26

could have bought Charles Manson's prison wall worn

49:28

under pumps. Oh my god. Yeah.

49:30

No. Thank you. Oh, do you know also

49:32

in November two thousand and nine,

49:34

there's this who LA Matti Roberts,

49:38

and he

49:41

basically had all this evidence that he was

49:44

Charles Munson's kid. Oh, now

49:46

a his mom was in a

49:48

Munson member and she's

49:50

been raped by she said she'd been raped by Charles Munson in these

49:52

letters. Mhmm. And then she hit as soon

49:54

as she she found out she's pregnant, she left, and

49:56

went back

49:58

home. And was like, right. Okay. I'm just gonna give birth and I'm

50:00

gonna get this baby out of my life. So he was born

50:02

March twenty second nineteen sixty eight.

50:05

And is given up for adoption pretty much

50:07

straight away. There's no

50:10

DNA test that I'm aware of, but Charles Munson

50:12

was like, yeah, that's I could be the

50:14

dad. Which means that he was

50:16

his way of saying he did rate that

50:18

woman. Right. Okay. This

50:21

was about two years before they

50:23

started murdering anyone. I don't know if that's good or bad. Like, he was a murderer, but

50:25

he wasn't a murderer when

50:27

he fathered me. Right.

50:30

Okay. Why I don't get what you tell anyone.

50:32

No, I don't. I mean, if you thought he

50:34

was your dad's, there's probably people that have found

50:36

that out that have just been like, oh, well,

50:39

There we go. Do you think it's like a PR thing? Sorry

50:41

to sound really cynical.

50:44

I honestly don't know. I just just

50:46

maybe maybe someone thinks A

50:49

story is a story, isn't it? Can

50:51

can I tell you when I've said he's

50:53

a DJ, to to clarify, he's a local

50:56

radio DJ. Oh, I imagine

50:58

that. Yeah. I wasn't imagining, you know,

51:02

David Getter. anything

51:04

like that. Although some of the stuff he

51:06

plays won't be surprised Charles Manson was he's

51:08

dead, it's always dead basically. And

51:10

and also, here's what I will

51:13

say. I refuse to watch any of these interviews with

51:15

Charles Manson. I think he got far too

51:17

much publicity for him. Yeah. I think he

51:19

was far too,

51:22

you know, it was encouraged too much I think and he, you

51:24

know, we've heard his side of the story. That's

51:26

it. You're in prison now. Shut

51:28

your mouth. I all these

51:30

interviews with him. I refuse to watch them. I'm not

51:32

interested. The rumblings of a

51:34

madman. And -- Yeah. -- I just think

51:36

it's very

51:38

disrespectful the the the rest of the the gang.

51:41

Clint Grogan was released

51:43

in nineteen eighty five. Mered

51:45

in prison twice and had two son no. Margin in

51:48

prison once had two sons lives in

51:50

California now and he's in a band. Now

51:52

here's the person I hate,

51:54

Lynette Froome. Squeeaker.

51:56

Absolute weirdo, in my opinion,

51:58

moved to Sacramento in nineteen

52:00

seventy five. She aimed at

52:02

gun at Gerald Ford. The gun wasn't

52:05

loaded, but she still was given

52:07

a life in prison for this.

52:09

She escaped briefly. And in two

52:11

thousand nine, she was paroled age

52:13

sixty. I don't think she should have been. No. Sandra

52:15

Good. She should have. Yeah. She

52:17

got ten years in prison.

52:19

She was released which was

52:21

obsessed with Manson and moved to California to

52:24

be nearer to him. Mhmm.

52:26

Linda Cusabian, as we know,

52:28

in she got immunity to

52:30

testify him, Mhmm. Part of the reason that was

52:32

involved, I think, was she was the only

52:34

one who was legally allowed to drive.

52:37

So they're used as a getaway driver. She

52:40

obviously testified against them. She just lives

52:42

a quiet life now apparently.

52:44

My brother. I can't remember

52:46

first name. I do apologize. Actually,

52:48

why am I apologizing to the person's

52:50

Anatoo. She was the one who had the child with child's

52:52

manson that the girl poo bear. She was

52:54

released from prison eventually. She now lives

52:56

in the Midwest. She has a

52:58

quiet life. K. Please

53:00

let that be all. I think that's

53:02

it. We've done it Rachel. We've done

53:04

it. I've closed the book that I

53:06

have here on the mom's and family. I've slammed

53:08

it closed. I don't. I don't know what happened with it because I can't find more

53:10

information, but I do know that Charles Munson

53:12

made his will out to that guy, that

53:14

DJ. Oh, great. Here's my prison worn

53:16

under pumps.

53:18

Well, no, because they'll be fucking of money from the book there?

53:20

Here's my hot air balloon catalog.

53:23

Killa, thank you.

53:26

I will treasure this forever.

53:28

Do you know what I always think of? Right?

53:30

I'm sorry to invoke. Probably one

53:32

of them is disgusting people who talks about in this,

53:34

but Marilyn

53:36

Monster Uh-huh. You know Marla Munson, like, how he

53:38

got his name. And so he didn't he picked something

53:40

the most beautiful thing in the worst

53:43

It was the most loved person and the

53:46

most hated person. So Marilyn

53:48

Monroe and Charles Munson

53:50

is what he ended up with, but

53:52

that's not that's

53:54

not actually what would happen. Right? That's

53:56

that's not the most loved person and

53:58

the most hated person. You would

54:01

be called like Adolph Alison Hammond, but it's

54:04

not Audrey. Adolph Jesus.

54:07

Yeah. Adolph Christ. But

54:10

Adolph Christ, yeah, or Adolph

54:12

mom, you

54:15

know, I think the fact that

54:17

it's more a better option. Can I just be honest

54:19

and say that you're being a shock jockey? You fucking

54:22

creep. Yeah.

54:24

He's I mean, never liked his I've I've done that thing. I hate you when

54:26

people do that. Never liked his music everywhere.

54:28

Never liked him everywhere. Yes,

54:30

sir. I do. I thought there

54:32

were some buggers in there, but Yeah. Not not for me.

54:35

Not not my bag. Never never enjoyed

54:37

it. What kind of music is

54:40

it? Goth, Yes. Gosh is Gosh is fair.

54:42

Yeah. Have you not heard disposable

54:44

teens? No. That's probably the

54:46

biggest single outside of the cover of

54:48

personal Jesus.

54:50

And it was very much not not my Yeah. It doesn't seem like

54:52

your bag. Not my bag. So

54:54

that's it. That we've done it. And we've got

54:57

through it. Wishes. Thanks for holding strong. We hope

54:59

you've enjoyed the last, probably, seven or

55:01

eight hours. Fuck me. I mean, this

55:04

has been an hour. Yesterday was an hour

55:06

and twenty. Yeah.

55:08

Fucking Thank you for listening.

55:10

And at the end of this

55:12

episode, to the binges you

55:14

got there, you did it. You did.

55:16

You probably just had the worst day of your life

55:18

listening to all this shit. I'm so

55:20

sorry. An entire entire,

55:22

like, shift Yeah. And

55:24

nine to five probably -- Yeah. --

55:26

do with all these episodes. So to the

55:28

binges, thank you for being patient and we

55:30

hope you enjoyed it. And hopefully, the

55:32

the chap who keeps commenting for fuck's sake. We should find out what his

55:34

name is. Let's oh, give me two seconds to find out what his

55:36

name is so we can give him a nice little shout out. We'll

55:39

give him a little shout out. Oh,

55:42

anything else to any other

55:44

business? Were it just for laughs on the

55:46

fourth of March? Is it third of March or fourth

55:48

of March? In London,

55:50

tickets are selling very fast for that,

55:52

so get in while you can. You've

55:54

got one more tour date left. Yeah. There

55:56

were March. Yeah. Well, I'm popping it out then. March. Is

55:59

that there's that ten tickets left

56:01

for that? That's your very last

56:03

tour date of home truths.

56:06

I am on tour from the twenty first

56:08

of January, twenty first of this month, twenty

56:10

first during twenty twenty three, start a

56:12

new castle, go to all the majors places that you think could be. You know

56:14

where to find the information? Just Google, Rachel

56:17

Bourbon, can be awful Filla.

56:20

And you'll get all the information there. Some of the dates are very

56:22

very busy. So, yeah, buy a ticket.

56:24

Great. Really slick. Well

56:27

done. This episode is dedicated to binger,

56:29

Ian Smith. Ian Smith,

56:31

who has given us nonstop shit

56:33

every time we were. But in episode

56:35

without being like, When's the next

56:37

one? How many is it gonna be? Well, Ian Smith, you you have

56:39

been patient and we appreciate it. We

56:42

hope you've

56:44

enjoyed it. You

56:46

have been lovely for listening, and thanks so

56:48

much for all your lovely feedback. We

56:50

value you your precious. We're very

56:52

lucky to have you. have you. I

56:54

nearly said that fucking belies a real truth. Isn't

56:56

it? You're very lucky to have us. Sorry. Sorry.

56:58

Sorry. We're very lucky to have you.

57:02

Speak to you soon. Bye. Bye.