0:08

You're listening to all of it.

0:11

I'm cushion avid are in for

0:13

Allison Stewart. If you grew up

0:15

in New York City or lived

0:17

here for a while, you've probably

0:19

noticed some beautiful pieces of our

0:21

a Longer Commute. A New Book

0:23

features a hundred and three artworks

0:25

completed between Twenty Fifteen and Twenty

0:27

Twenty Three across New York's transit

0:30

system and offers a behind the

0:32

scenes look at how these pieces

0:34

were created and installed. It's titled

0:36

Contemporary Art Underground. The book shows

0:38

how. Public Art has expanded and

0:40

flourished today. There are more than

0:43

three hundred and fifty active programs

0:45

in the United States, including undergrad

0:47

art museum administered by Empty A

0:50

Arts and Design. Some of the

0:52

artists the book spotlights include names

0:54

like Kiki Smith, Yea Yea Co,

0:57

Sama, Nick Cave, Derek Adams, and

0:59

it's available now for purchase and

1:01

and joining me now to discuss

1:03

the book and the history of

1:06

Subway are are the Books co

1:08

authors. Please welcome at Central Bloodworth

1:10

the Director of Empty A Arts and

1:13

Design. It's a department within the Transit

1:15

authority. Sandro! Welcome back to all of

1:17

it. Thank. You Kiss! It's

1:19

terrific to be here. It's wonderful to

1:21

have you and also joining us is

1:24

empty. A Arts and Designs Deputy Director

1:26

Cheryl A Hagerman welcome Thank you for

1:28

joining us Think it has her listeners.

1:30

We also want to hear from you

1:32

were talking about our in subway stations.

1:34

We want to hear about your favorite

1:37

subway art. Where is it and what

1:39

does that look like? How does the

1:41

presence of subway art change your experience

1:43

of taking the train? Give us a

1:45

call or send us attacks. Were at

1:47

two one two. Four three three

1:49

Nine Six Nine to that's two, One two

1:52

four Three Three W N Y C Or

1:54

you can hit us up on our socials.

1:56

were at all of it W N Y

1:58

C So central. Let's. into the

2:00

book. It features a hundred and three

2:02

artworks installed within the last nine years.

2:05

What did you want readers to understand

2:07

about the process of installing these works

2:09

behind the scenes? Well, you

2:11

know, our customers have seen for so many

2:13

years the work show up to see it

2:16

there and we wanted them

2:18

to know just how it got there

2:20

from the selection through

2:22

the design process, through

2:24

fabrication and then installation.

2:28

So, you know, you're thinking about all of

2:30

these beautiful pieces of art and Cheryl, MTA

2:32

Arts and Design was founded in 1985 and

2:36

in the book's introduction it states that more than

2:38

400 permanent artworks

2:40

have been commissioned by the MTA over

2:42

the past four decades. Can you tell

2:44

us about the application process for the

2:47

artists? How do you decide which artists

2:49

to collaborate with for a public art

2:51

installation? I

2:53

think I'll take that if you don't mind.

2:56

You know, our selection process

2:58

has been around for first

3:01

from the beginning almost the same process

3:03

and the what we do with the

3:06

the most important thing is

3:08

that we engage the community and

3:11

we get the best start. So it's that

3:13

process of bringing the community

3:15

represented on the panel with

3:17

arts professionals. So you have

3:19

both and together we look at a

3:21

large pool of artists and then we

3:24

bring it down to four finalists and

3:26

they propose and from there we

3:29

select one artist proposal that's

3:32

for that particular site. How long would you

3:34

say it normally takes from like concepts to

3:36

execution for all this? Cheryl, you want to

3:38

maybe take that? Sure. So

3:41

of the more than a hundred works that are

3:43

featured in the book I would say we have

3:46

examples that were completed

3:48

in under one year which is

3:50

very fast for us and then also if

3:52

we're looking at some of the longer

3:55

planning projects like Second Avenue Subway

3:57

I would say that those were

4:00

probably closer to seven years,

4:02

but you say that's right, Sandra? The

4:05

entire Second Avenue was longer than we

4:07

were with the art component. Right, right,

4:09

about seven years. So

4:11

when you think about that, how do

4:13

you keep the vision on track? How

4:15

many people are a part of selecting

4:18

and working with the artist? Is it

4:20

a very one-on-one situation or are there

4:22

many different elements that go into making

4:24

sure that for a seven-year project, the

4:26

vision goes all the way through? Well,

4:31

for what I think in MTA speak

4:33

would be considered a mega project. There

4:35

are a huge number of people who are

4:37

involved in that process. Each

4:40

project does have a project manager, an

4:42

arts administrator, who's responsible for working

4:45

with the artist once the artist has

4:48

been selected through our

4:50

process, which involves a number

4:52

of people, and

4:55

then of course working with the fabricator to make

4:57

sure that the work as

4:59

it's translated and working with the architects, the engineers

5:01

to make sure that when it's brought into the

5:04

station that everything is as

5:06

it needs to be. Listeners,

5:08

if you're just joining us, we're

5:10

talking about subway art installations, which

5:12

you know everyone in New York

5:14

City must have a favorite subway

5:16

station piece of art that they've

5:18

seen. I know that I

5:20

have mine, which we can talk about in

5:22

a bit, but we're here with Sandra Bloodworth,

5:24

who's the MTA Arts and Design Director, and

5:26

Cheryl Hageman, who is the MTA Arts and

5:28

Design Deputy Director. And listeners, we

5:30

want to get your calls about your favorite

5:33

pieces of art on the subway. Where

5:35

is it? What does it look like? How does

5:38

your presence and the presence of subway art change

5:40

your experience of taking the train? Give

5:42

us a call or send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's

5:45

212-433-WNYC. We just got a text that I

5:47

want to read, which I think is lovely. It

5:53

says, Nancy's Flowers 28th 6th Train.

5:58

I love almost all subway art. to

6:00

love visiting Elise Murray

6:03

at 59th Lexington. You

6:05

know, we're talking, Sandra, you had mentioned

6:07

before about the community that is within

6:09

the subway station where we see each

6:11

subway and rail station has its own

6:14

aesthetic. We got Prospect Ave, it's different

6:16

from Second Ave, which is different from

6:18

Times Square. What aspects of

6:20

the neighborhood do you take into account

6:22

as you're attempting to forge a unique identity

6:24

for each station through art? The

6:27

people, the people, the people.

6:29

It's the people who live there. And then

6:32

everything else sort of reflects that in

6:34

some way. Now we may have historical

6:36

elements too that

6:39

become important, but it's

6:41

the artist that has the vision.

6:44

So our role

6:46

is to be sure they are grounded

6:49

in that community. And

6:51

then that gives them the sort of the

6:53

basis to speak to the people who are

6:55

using it. And so we

6:57

do a great deal of research when we're doing

7:00

our selection process and we share as much

7:03

as we can find out about the

7:05

community. And then we have the community

7:07

representatives that also share. And

7:09

then we have the arts professionals and

7:11

they pull it all together to get

7:13

the best art. That's the trick, the

7:15

best art, but that

7:17

speaks to those who use this place.

7:20

Can you think of a specific example

7:22

where the community and the art professionals

7:24

and the MTA really came together to

7:26

create something that you thought was well

7:28

reflective and additive and beautiful to

7:31

the subway station where it appeared? I

7:34

think that's true with almost every one. I'm

7:36

glad you didn't ask me which one. That didn't

7:38

happen. Yeah, sure. No, but if

7:40

you look at 167th and the Bronx with

7:43

Rico Gadsden and he created

7:46

these icons that were

7:48

his, basically his work, from his work,

7:51

but icons of artists or

7:54

all sorts of notable people who

7:58

had ties to the Bronx. And

8:01

if you had made this station a

8:03

destination and the community is just in

8:05

love with the station I probably got

8:08

as many comments from people to write

8:10

me or track me down on

8:12

that project as any Wow, we have

8:14

another text that I'd love to read

8:17

It says the in station displays have

8:19

made me ignore my arriving train one

8:21

of favorites the amnh station American Museum

8:24

of Natural History, which is beautiful Cheryl

8:27

you know in the book you

8:29

talk about durability being a requirement

8:31

of the work and that mosaic

8:33

glass and metal Continue to be

8:35

the most durable. What are some

8:38

uncommon materials that artists have used

8:40

in the installations? Hmm

8:45

Well, it's sort of I mean that's

8:47

the trick Cheryl works very closely with

8:49

with the artists own materials That's one

8:51

of her areas, but we

8:53

sort of really limit that You

8:56

know, we really stay away from

8:58

those untried materials because when we're

9:00

commissioning it has to last forever

9:02

doesn't it Cheryl? Yeah, well

9:05

that that's the idea for the life of

9:07

the station, but I'm I am thinking of

9:10

Sort of a twist that we have

9:12

so for example at Grand Central We

9:15

have a project that was

9:17

originally Conceived to be

9:19

a mosaic project that was the artist

9:22

is Jim Hodges and it

9:24

was ultimately realized in mirrored glass

9:27

and that was sort of it we

9:29

did have to do a lot of research

9:31

on the material to be sure that the The

9:35

mirror would hold up in that environment But

9:38

I think as a result it looks

9:40

different from anything else that we've been

9:43

able to to fabricate Wow And

9:45

it's fantastic, isn't it Cheryl? Yeah Wonderful.

9:49

Hey, we got to take a quick break, but

9:51

we see some calls coming in So what we're

9:53

gonna do is out of the break take some

9:55

more calls Here's some more from you listeners about

9:57

what your favorite subway art installations are We're

10:00

here with Sandra Bloodworth and Cheryl Hageman.

10:02

They are from the MTA Arts and

10:04

Design Department within the MTA. We're talking

10:07

about their new book, Contemporary Art Underground.

10:09

It's about the subway art that makes

10:11

us fall in love with either getting

10:14

to work, getting to the grocery store,

10:16

wherever you're going. If you have a

10:18

piece of subway art that you wanna

10:21

call out, give us a

10:23

call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's

10:27

212-433-WNYC. And

10:30

we'll be right back after a quick break. This

10:41

is all of it from WNYC. I'm

10:43

Kusha Navadar, and we are talking about

10:45

subway art. The new book, Contemporary Art

10:48

Underground, goes into many of the installations

10:50

and subway pieces of art that you

10:52

see every single time you're writing the

10:54

one, two, A, B, whatever it is.

10:57

Art fills this city in the transit system,

10:59

and this book goes into that. We're talking

11:01

to Sandra Bloodworth, who's the MTA Arts and

11:03

Design Director, and Cheryl Hageman, who's the MTA

11:06

Arts and Design Deputy Director. And listeners, we're

11:08

taking your calls. Is there a piece of

11:10

art that you see whenever you ride the subway,

11:12

or when you're waiting for the subway that really speaks to

11:14

you? Give us a call or send us a text. We

11:16

wanna hear about it. We're at 212-433-9692. That's

11:22

212-433-WNYC. And

11:25

we've got a couple callers that I'd love to

11:27

get to. First, let's hear from Hal in Crown

11:29

Heights. Hi, Hal, welcome to the show. Hi,

11:33

hi, hi, great. I

11:35

love mosaics generally throughout the

11:37

system, and historically, they

11:39

really, there's a great context for them

11:42

historically, and the ceramic work that decorates

11:44

the stations. And I just

11:46

love the fact that new contemporary

11:48

artists are doing ceramics, during

11:51

mosaics in stations. And among

11:53

my favorites are

11:55

the Lincoln Center Station, the

11:58

gold tiles. glittery

12:01

tiles. I just

12:03

think that the durability of mosaics

12:05

and the persistence of

12:07

the colors is

12:09

just one of the real blessings of

12:11

some of the best artwork we

12:14

have in the subway. Oh, Hal, thank you so

12:16

much for calling that out, Lincoln Center Station. If

12:18

you haven't been there yet, check it out. Let's

12:20

go to Brian in Hastings. Hi, Brian. Welcome to

12:22

the show. Hi,

12:25

how are you doing? Good, thanks. I

12:28

just wanted to talk about Rory

12:30

Mulligan's current installation at the Grand

12:32

Central Dining Vestibule called Auguries, in

12:35

which he photographs mostly

12:37

native birds in the metropolitan

12:40

area and uses them

12:42

as like an omen or harbinger for

12:44

climate change while also

12:48

talking about a sublime type of beauty. Brian,

12:51

thank you so much for calling that out. Cheryl,

12:53

I saw you nodding your head to that one.

12:55

Does that one speak to you specifically at Grand

12:57

Central? Well, I'm glad that the caller has

13:00

raised the issue of the fact that we have,

13:03

besides our permanent projects, of which we

13:05

have 400, we also have a number

13:07

of temporary programs. So the caller is

13:09

referring to one of our photo light

13:11

box exhibitions that we have at Grand Central

13:14

in the dining concourse. Wonderful.

13:16

Yeah, and Sandra, go ahead. And

13:18

music. We have music, photography, poetry.

13:20

Digital arts. There you go. One

13:23

of my favorites. So I ride the queue,

13:26

and this one I think is old. I

13:28

think it was reinstalled in 2012, but there's

13:30

actually an animation that I see. The transoscope,

13:32

I think is called? Mass transoscope. Mass transoscope.

13:34

I'll admit, I found it out last week,

13:37

but it was so delightful to get to see it

13:39

as you're going by. Bill Brand. Bill

13:41

Brand, yeah. There's one other that I wanted to be

13:44

sure that I brought up. In the first chapter,

13:46

you focus on the Courtland Street

13:48

Station below the World Trade Center on

13:50

the one line. The process of selecting

13:52

an artist for this station post-9-11 was

13:54

described As

13:57

an emotionally charged process.

14:00

Many selected and Hamilton as a

14:02

finalist center. Can you tell us

14:04

about the installation see proposed and

14:06

with stuck out to the committee

14:08

about her proposal? Yes yes and

14:10

in of. And.

14:12

Has the ability. To

14:15

really speak to a place to

14:17

to in and several way And

14:20

here we were at the World

14:22

Trade Center and of what put

14:24

an enormous. Responsibility.

14:27

To. Create were that was

14:30

in. This location so

14:32

an. Brought chorus there

14:34

and by weaving words

14:36

words from to very

14:38

important documents states. Odd.

14:40

The preamble to the Declaration Of

14:42

Independence and the Nineteen Forty Eight

14:45

Un Declaration. Of Human Rights and she

14:47

took. The words that were similar

14:49

and she was them together.

14:51

And she said it created.

14:53

A course where the voices

14:56

the solitaire voices become a

14:58

chorus. And her ability.

15:01

To. Make a statement

15:03

there that. Resonates.

15:06

With. All of us

15:08

id and resonates in a in a

15:10

powerful way. I thought it

15:12

was just beyond what any. One could

15:14

have imagined. Our

15:17

understanding is that Hamilton has a

15:19

background in textiles as and and

15:21

center. I heard you use the

15:23

word whoa are we've which the

15:25

a pretty close to textile Cheryl

15:27

when thought and was making this

15:29

art was there discussion about applying

15:31

fundamentals of textiles to what we

15:33

would see at the subway station

15:35

to that play a role Little.

15:39

So. Alessandra who were directly involved.

15:41

In that process speak to that

15:44

sure Century House idea that projects.

15:46

I worked extremely closely with an

15:48

arm along with our other deputy

15:51

Arlington. We worked closely with her

15:53

and. You. Know it and the

15:55

the way and works. Is. It's.

15:59

it's solitary, but it's

16:01

within her studio. She had a

16:03

collaborator, Hans Kohn, who was

16:06

a typographer that she worked with. But

16:09

I think the way Anne works, it's almost

16:11

her thoughts weave in through and

16:13

out a project. And so

16:15

this really happened in

16:17

a more solitary way. And

16:20

then she brought that, that the

16:23

weaving part, you see it in the

16:25

way the text sits on the

16:27

wall. It says if it's woven

16:29

through. So it's what, you know,

16:31

that's what, that's where the magic is. Artists

16:34

bring from their studio that

16:36

which is unique, that which

16:39

is about their work. And

16:41

they bring it into this public context. The

16:44

community and everyone becomes involved in

16:46

how those things, those, they marry.

16:50

Listeners, if you're just joining us,

16:52

we're talking about Subway Art, the

16:54

new book, Contemporary Art Underground. It's

16:57

from the MTA Arts and Design

16:59

in New York. We've got Sandra

17:01

Bloodworth and Cheryl Hageman with us.

17:03

And we're talking to you about

17:05

your favorite pieces of Subway art

17:07

in the stations while you're in

17:09

the train. Give us a call

17:11

or send us a text. We're

17:13

at 212-433-9692. That's

17:18

212-433-WNYC. Got

17:21

a text that I want to read out here.

17:23

When my daughter was little, we took her to

17:25

preschool on the one train. Loved

17:27

the mother baby sea life at Canal,

17:29

which is lovely. We've also got Elizabeth

17:32

on the phone from Manhattan. Hi, Elizabeth.

17:34

Welcome to the show. Hello.

17:37

Thank you very much. I'm very happy to

17:39

hear about this because I love the subway

17:41

art. And I was talking

17:43

about the tunnel that goes from 42nd and

17:45

8th over to the 7 train. So

17:50

that's from the 8 train to the 7. And

17:54

that one has figures

17:56

on both sides. And you feel like you're

17:58

being welcomed. Helped along

18:01

on. Your voyage by looking

18:03

at those folks. And then

18:05

I'd. By. Chance going to Coney

18:07

Island on the train and I saw some

18:10

stained glass work which I think is done

18:12

by. Was being a art

18:14

from Philly bigger. Leagues maybe

18:16

for Monday at Royal and. It

18:19

was gorgeous! So. I love the yard

18:21

but now that the what the person. Who's to

18:23

you've talked about? Who does? Could you.

18:25

Use the word weaving and I'm

18:27

a weaver and I thought soon.

18:29

Now of course you can't put

18:31

wall on the war that. Had

18:34

a we've it All and so this is

18:36

of lovely. Programme contains your also st

18:38

You. So much so happy to have

18:40

a weaver on to be able to

18:42

talk about it or Cheryl you know.

18:45

I wanted to make sure that we

18:47

brought about one Hundred and Forty Fifth

18:49

Street as well as the hundred and

18:51

Forty Fifth Street station. There's this piece

18:53

titled Parade by Derek. Food Your which

18:55

depicts black performers are major as he

18:57

often works in collage, video filmed sculpture

18:59

and paintings. What was the process like

19:02

of having his work translated into this

19:04

texture? wall sized painting. The.

19:06

Great sense and. I

19:08

think one of the things that

19:10

we were really aiming to do

19:12

through the book, Contemporary Art Underground

19:15

is share that process as the

19:17

fabricators Ashley go once they've been

19:19

selected by an artist thousand times.

19:21

spend time in the artist studio

19:23

really getting and understanding as their

19:25

process. so that's what that is

19:27

translated into that. but ever the

19:29

durable material is in this case

19:31

it was Stephen me out. Oh

19:33

who? for me or a mutt

19:35

say it's who was translating Derricks

19:37

or Work into Mozeliak. For

19:39

Hundred and Forty Fifth Street,

19:41

he spent time in Derek

19:44

studio watching the way that

19:46

he layers his work because

19:48

his processes really a bills

19:50

up as different materials from

19:52

newsprint and and ah, paints

19:55

and. I think

19:57

that really comes through in the finished

19:59

mosaic, which. of course, is solid

20:01

pieces of glass. But you get a layered

20:04

sense. You

20:06

get sort of the glittering tones. When

20:09

you're working with artists, what do you want

20:11

to make sure they understand about working in

20:14

this medium, especially when you're talking about complicated

20:16

visions of

20:18

using glass and all these other different materials? I'm

20:24

sorry, what are the artists think? When

20:26

you're working with artists, what do you want to make

20:28

sure they understand about working in this medium? Maybe something

20:30

that you want to make sure they hold in mind

20:33

as they're trying these new things. Well,

20:36

I guess it is important for them

20:38

to realize that it's going to be

20:40

a little bit of a departure from

20:42

their normal process, which is often very

20:44

sort of, as Sandra used the word

20:47

solitary before to describe AMPED process, working

20:50

in a studio and in

20:52

mediums that they're very familiar with. This

20:55

is a bit more experimental. We

20:58

know the thing that's really important is

21:01

the fabricator, that the

21:03

fabricator understands it's their job to

21:05

capture what's on that proposal, what's

21:08

on that work of art. And

21:11

it's our job at Arts and

21:13

Design to be sure the fabricator,

21:15

we approve that work at

21:17

a sample level and to be

21:20

sure that they are capturing the artist more

21:22

than it is. The job isn't, the responsibility

21:24

is not on the artist, it's on the

21:26

fabricator. So it becomes a collaboration

21:28

when it's ideal. What are

21:30

some elements that you think help produce that good

21:32

working relationship with the fabricator? Is it open communication?

21:35

Do you draw on what you've learned in the

21:37

past about what works or what doesn't? Absolutely,

21:40

I mean, it's multiple things,

21:42

but the ultimate is does

21:45

the work that's created, it

21:48

doesn't become the work of the artist and

21:51

spotting that. And we can all get

21:53

in a hurry or we can all have lots of

21:55

things happening, but it's our job

21:57

to be sure that is always happening. Yeah

22:00

that the artist has the artist work is

22:02

up on the wall Not the fabric and

22:04

very quickly maybe in the last 15 seconds

22:06

or so Is there a specific artist that

22:08

is working on something right now that you're

22:10

quite excited about? I'm

22:13

excited about them all I Can't

22:15

we haven't announced who we're working on

22:17

yet. So I'm not gonna spill that

22:19

beam. All right. Well, we'll keep out

22:21

for it Fair enough. Well,

22:24

maybe we'll see a sign for it on the subway We've

22:27

been talking about contemporary art underground

22:29

from MTA arts and design, New

22:31

York We've been joined by Sandra

22:33

bloodworth the MTA Mta arts

22:36

and design director and Cheryl Hageman the

22:38

deputy MTA arts and design director. Thank

22:40

you both so much for joining us

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