0:00

Hey, Lulu here. Whether we are

0:02

romping through science, music, politics, technology,

0:04

or feelings, we seek to leave

0:06

you seeing the world anew. Radiolab

0:09

adventures right on the edge of what

0:11

we think we know. Wherever

0:13

you get podcasts. This

0:24

is All of It on WNYC. I'm

0:26

Kusha Navadar in for Alison Stewart. It's

0:28

Thursday, which means that yet again, it's

0:30

time to talk about treats that tickle

0:32

our taste buds. Yeah, that sentence was

0:35

a mouthful, but hey, so is this

0:37

week's installment of our Food for Thought

0:39

series. Today we've got a two time

0:41

champion of the reality competition show Chopped,

0:43

joining us to talk about her new

0:45

cookbook. In the introduction to

0:48

the book, which is called Sweet

0:50

Treats from Brownies to Brioche's, chef

0:52

Mel Oseraf describes herself as

0:54

your butter half and your new

0:56

kitchen bestie. She's got a hundred

0:59

recipes that orbit around just 10

1:01

basic ingredients with plenty of room

1:04

for variations. You've got sugar, flour,

1:06

eggs, liquid dairy, butter, baking powder,

1:08

baking soda, yeast, and what baking

1:11

would be complete without vanilla and

1:13

chocolate. So let's get into it.

1:16

Chef Melody Oseraf is holding

1:18

an event tonight in the Chelsea

1:20

area at French Wink Boutique. It's

1:22

called French Spring Celebration Crepes

1:25

Shopping and Joie de Vivre with

1:27

chef Mel. That's tonight from 5.30

1:29

to 8.30. But now

1:32

she's here with us to talk about

1:34

her cookbook, Sweet Treats from Brownies to

1:36

Brioche. Hi, chef Mel. Welcome to all

1:38

of it. Hi,

1:40

thank you so much for having me. Absolutely.

1:42

And hey, all of it listeners, we

1:44

are here to take all of your

1:47

baking related questions, like what tools you

1:49

need in your kitchen or what ingredients

1:51

you need in your pantry to make

1:53

the best baked goods, or hey, maybe

1:55

you need some help perfecting your signature

1:57

cake or your experimental meringues. Call us.

2:00

your questions we're at 212-433-WNYC that's 212-433-9692 or

2:02

you can hit us up on x or

2:04

on instagram we're

2:11

at all of it wnyc. So

2:14

Mel there's a lot of French technique

2:16

found in these recipes and a bit

2:18

of Italian as well I thought can

2:20

you tell us a bit about your

2:22

baking influences and how you thought about

2:24

synthesizing them into this cookbook? Yes

2:27

of course so I'm a classically

2:30

trained pastry chef born in Paris

2:33

so already French

2:35

recipes were always very important to me

2:37

and kind of the

2:39

basis for gastronomy I would say

2:42

so after I studied at the

2:44

French culinary institute I went

2:46

back to Paris to kind of study under

2:48

what I consider to be the pastry

2:51

icons like Pierre to

2:54

learn about French macarons

2:56

working for several different

2:58

chocolatiers and then ended up

3:00

opening a bakery over there for several years

3:02

where I kind of combined my love

3:04

for American desserts with a little bit

3:06

of a French twist and

3:09

being back in the U.S. now it's

3:11

kind of a little bit the opposite

3:13

where it's crunching it

3:15

up and using French fundamental

3:17

techniques to kind of

3:19

ameliorate your recipes whether you're making

3:21

brownies or fancy brioche. You

3:23

know in your introduction you

3:26

encourage folks not to be

3:28

intimidated by French techniques. What

3:30

are some of those techniques that you

3:32

think people should embrace that maybe at

3:34

first glance might seem a little beyond

3:36

those who consider themselves you know casual

3:39

or beginner bakers? So

3:41

I would say the number one even

3:44

before going into any complex techniques I

3:46

would say is using a baking scale.

3:49

Measuring everything out in grams

3:52

really allows you to have

3:54

more flexibility with your recipe

3:57

and understand why the

3:59

cookie is going to be be chewy

4:01

versus why it's crispy because of the

4:03

brown sugar versus granulated sugar. And

4:06

so having that kind of precision

4:08

already gives you much more control

4:11

over your recipe. And

4:13

I would say the second one,

4:15

sorry for jumping in. The

4:18

second one would be what we call

4:20

mise en place and

4:22

MEP, which stands for basically in

4:25

its place. So

4:27

I would say that 80% of the

4:29

mistakes that people can make in baking

4:31

can quickly be eliminated by just taking

4:33

the preper team to read

4:36

through the full recipe, weighing out all

4:38

of your ingredients, preheating

4:40

your oven, prepping your

4:43

baking pans, setting up

4:45

a little music, and really not

4:47

trying to multitask 50 different things

4:49

while baking. It sounds like it's all

4:51

about prep. The two things that you talk about is

4:53

one, make sure you have the right weights, and then

4:55

two, make sure everything is in its place, which is

4:57

really interesting that it's the preparation. I got to ask,

4:59

you mentioned music. What music do you play when you're

5:01

baking? I actually love

5:03

French cafe music. Is that cliche? Not

5:07

at all. I mean, hey, you said

5:09

French fry it up. It's wonderful. It's also very

5:11

good music. I'm a fan of it myself. Do

5:13

you remember the recipe or the experiences

5:15

in the kitchen you had as a young person

5:17

that really made you feel like you wanted to

5:19

pursue the art of baking? Is there one memory

5:21

that sticks out for you? I

5:25

would say I had grandmothers who both really

5:27

liked to bake. So growing

5:29

up both French and Jewish, food

5:33

was always really important in the family. Having

5:36

that smell of either warm cookies or

5:38

usually butter, I would say, in a

5:40

French household. My mom would

5:43

also make crepes, religiously every Saturday

5:45

morning. We got an hour of

5:47

cartoon time and a whole stack

5:49

of crepes. The whole

5:51

house smelled like butter for several

5:53

hours. All of

5:55

that really stuck with me from

5:58

a young age. a family

6:00

where we don't have any chefs actually

6:02

or anyone who works in culinary, my

6:05

parents both were like, well, you're going

6:07

to college first. And if you still

6:09

want to go to culinary school, we'll

6:11

make that happen afterwards. So true

6:13

to myself, as soon as I graduated from college, I

6:16

came back and I was like, well, now can I

6:18

go? So they were like, okay, now

6:21

you can go. So that's

6:23

kind of how I started my culinary journey. I

6:25

wish I had started a little bit sooner because

6:28

most of the apprentices in Paris who

6:30

make it, you know, in this industry

6:32

start when they are, you know, 14,

6:34

15 years old, working

6:36

as an apprentice and working your way up.

6:40

So I would definitely say experience is just

6:42

huge in this industry. Yeah, absolutely. Listeners,

6:44

if you're just joining us, we're talking

6:47

to Mel Oseroff, who's the baker and

6:49

cookbook author and two time chopped winner.

6:51

Her new cookbook is called Sweet Treats

6:53

from Brownies to Brioche's. And we are

6:55

here to take all of your baking

6:57

related questions like, you know, what tools

6:59

do you need in your kitchen? What

7:01

ingredients you need in your pantry to

7:04

make the best baked meringues? Do you

7:06

have a question for chef Mel? Give

7:08

us a call, send us a text.

7:10

We're at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. We're also

7:18

on social. We're at all of it. WNYC. So

7:20

you can definitely hit us up there. Chef

7:23

Mel, you know, before we get to some of

7:25

the recipes, you explain the 10 main

7:28

ingredients needed in baking. Eight

7:30

of them are kind of structural.

7:33

You've got flour, baking soda, sugar,

7:35

eggs, dairy, and then there's the

7:37

more flavorful necessities. I'm thinking of

7:39

vanilla and chocolate. So can we

7:42

start with those two, the vanilla

7:44

and chocolate? How can people elevate

7:46

their baking by paying special attention with

7:48

how they're using vanilla and chocolate? Such

7:52

a good question. So I always

7:54

say that you can't make high

7:56

quality desserts without high

7:59

quality ingredients. And

8:01

with the price of ingredients being

8:04

what they are today, my

8:06

rule is kind of you want to

8:08

highlight the main ingredient in that recipe.

8:10

So if I'm making a

8:12

chocolate brownie, for example, I'm

8:14

going to invest in a

8:16

high quality chocolate, high quality

8:19

cocoa powder to really elevate

8:21

all of the flavors of

8:23

the chocolate. And if

8:25

I'm making, for example, a bundt cake, which

8:27

is like a vanilla with a vanilla loaf

8:29

and a vanilla glaze, I'm going

8:32

to actually splurge and buy vanilla

8:34

beans versus using like the cheaper

8:36

vanilla extract. But in the

8:38

brownies, I'll add in the vanilla extract because

8:40

that's not the highlight ingredient. So

8:43

I would say first and foremost, kind of knowing

8:45

what ingredient and flavor you're trying

8:47

to put forward in your dessert,

8:49

whether it's vanilla or whether it's

8:52

chocolate and making sure that you

8:54

invest in a high quality product.

8:57

And when you talk about vanilla, there's so

8:59

many different options from, you know,

9:01

five or six different types of

9:03

beans from Madagascar to Mexico to

9:05

Tahiti. We

9:08

even have Ugandan beans now. I mean, they're really

9:10

kind of being grown

9:12

all over compared to even 10 years ago.

9:15

And you can find vanilla in bean form

9:17

and powder form, in vanilla

9:19

sugar, in vanilla extract,

9:22

in vanilla paste. So

9:24

just kind of using the appropriate

9:27

one for that recipe, I think

9:29

is really important. You know, I hear

9:31

you talk about sometimes it's worth it to

9:33

splurge on the kind of vanilla, the kind

9:35

of chocolate. How about on the other side

9:37

with more structural elements? Like is it worth

9:40

it to splurge on, I don't know, fancy

9:42

eggs for a recipe or a specific kind

9:44

of flour? Yes. So

9:47

absolutely, I would say it's the same thing if

9:49

I'm going to be making a flan or an

9:51

ice cream or a creme brulee

9:54

where the eggs are really important

9:56

and I want to have a

9:58

nice yolky color. If I

10:00

use less expensive white eggs that

10:02

are really on the cheaper side,

10:04

they're not going to be very

10:07

yolky and very yellow. And

10:09

so that also plays on the color and the

10:12

texture of your dessert. So I

10:14

would say it's the same as, I

10:16

don't know about mentioning brands, but

10:18

King Arthur is kind of my

10:20

go-to for all-purpose flour. And

10:22

in the book, I mentioned that I

10:25

only keep all-purpose flour in the pantry

10:27

because that's the most commonly used in

10:29

recipes. And then when

10:32

you have to momentarily use self-rising

10:34

flour or pastry flour, I actually

10:36

include all of those hacks in

10:39

my cookbook on how to make all of

10:41

those flour variations from just all-purpose

10:43

flour. And it's kind of

10:45

the same thing with dairy. I'll usually

10:47

keep heavy cream in the

10:50

refrigerator because with that, I can make

10:52

butter, sour cream, cream cheese,

10:54

buttermilk, butter, creme

10:56

fraiche, milk, half and half.

11:00

So just knowing what your ingredients

11:02

are made of to kind of create

11:04

yourself a staple pantry, I think

11:06

is really important because that eliminates also

11:08

like, oh, I want to make these

11:10

brownies, but I have to go shopping. I'm missing this,

11:13

I'm missing that. But having them in

11:15

your pantry kind of like a staple items

11:17

is, I think, also really helpful.

11:19

Right. Good to be prepared. We

11:21

have to take a quick break, but listeners, we want

11:23

to hear from you. We see some calls coming in

11:25

right now. We're going to get to them after the

11:28

break. If you have questions for

11:30

Chef Mel about baking, tools you need in

11:32

your kitchen, ingredients in your pantry, like she

11:34

was just talking about to make you the

11:36

best prepared, give us a call. Send us

11:38

a text. We're at 212-433-WNYC. That's

11:41

212-433-9692. We're going to take a quick break.

11:46

When we come back, we'll get some of your

11:48

calls in and we're going to talk about some of the

11:50

recipes from the book will be released. This

12:02

is all of it from WNYC.

12:04

I'm Kushan Avadar and we are

12:06

talking to Chef Mel Oseroff, the

12:08

baker and cookbook author and two-time

12:10

Chopped winner. Her new cookbook, Sweet

12:12

Treats from Brownies to Brioche's. Listeners

12:15

we're taking your calls about everything baking related.

12:17

Give us a call. Send us

12:19

a text. We're at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.

12:22

And Chef, we got a couple callers. I'd

12:28

love to go to Dee in Manhattan. Hey Dee,

12:30

welcome to the show. Thank

12:33

you. Dee, what's your question? I

12:36

asked when do you use baking powder and when

12:38

do you use baking soda? Oh, wonderful question.

12:40

Thank you so much. Are they all used? Can

12:43

they both be used at the same time also? Wonderful.

12:46

So, Chef Mel, what do you think? When do you use baking

12:48

powder versus baking soda? Located

12:52

question and it's not a black and white

12:54

one I would say. So

12:57

in order to answer it accurately, generally baking

12:59

soda, you want to use it when there's

13:02

going to be a liquid that's going to

13:04

activate it. Something

13:06

like either acidic like a lemon juice

13:08

or if you want to use buttermilk

13:11

for example which also has acidity and

13:13

you want to create kind of like

13:15

a light and airy

13:17

texture in your baked goods versus

13:20

if you want to create something a little

13:22

bit more dense with a little bit

13:24

more bite and chewy and a nice

13:26

rise, you would use the baking powder.

13:29

Got it. And Dee, thank you so much for

13:31

that call. We really appreciate it. I'm sure a lot of folks have that

13:33

question on their minds. Chef Mel, I'd

13:35

love to get into some of your recipes

13:38

and listeners, when we upload this conversation to

13:40

our website, you'll be able to find Chef

13:42

Mel's recipe for homemade chocolate chip cookie cereal.

13:44

So Mel, out of all the recipes you

13:46

put together, why did you want to share

13:49

this recipe with our listeners today? So

13:52

the cookie cereal is actually

13:56

one of my favorite recipes because

13:58

it is very simple but

14:00

yet it's very nostalgic. And

14:02

being a 90s baby, I

14:06

grew up kind of having the cookie crisp

14:08

cereal and always loved having

14:10

the milk at the end of that, of

14:13

course. And so I wanted

14:15

to create kind of a gourmet version

14:17

of that that you could either snack

14:19

on without milk or have for cereal

14:21

in the morning. And it

14:23

is a labor of love because you have

14:25

to pipe every single little cookie. So

14:28

you want to make kind of a big batch and

14:30

keep those in a nice container for a few weeks.

14:34

But this one I thought was really a nostalgic

14:38

fun recipe that I think could

14:40

also be great

14:42

for kids to enjoy making. And it

14:44

was kind of like close to me because

14:47

it's one of the, you know, the cereals

14:49

I grew up having. Can you

14:51

go ahead and walk us through the process of making

14:53

your cookie cereal? Yes.

14:55

So the cookie cereal is exactly the

14:58

same process as you would make your

15:00

cream butter method, which means

15:02

your recipe starts with soft butter

15:05

and you're creaming in your sugar followed

15:07

by your eggs, followed by your dry

15:09

ingredients. So that's a cream butter method

15:11

base. So it's

15:14

very similar to your, you know,

15:16

average chocolate chip cookie. The

15:18

only thing is we also want to use

15:20

mini chocolate chips so that they really come

15:23

out teeny tiny in these cookies. And

15:25

once you cream together the butter and the sugar,

15:27

you add in your eggs one at a time,

15:30

followed by your flour and

15:33

your baking powder and your mini chocolate

15:35

chips. And then once you have your

15:37

cookie dough, the great tip here is

15:39

actually loading it into a piping bag

15:42

so that you can type out little

15:44

teeny tiny cookies and then just bake

15:46

them off on a sheet pan. I

15:49

recommend on a silicone mat versus

15:51

parchment paper just for a more

15:53

even browning and a little bit

15:55

more caramelization. You know, when

15:57

I first saw the picture of the

15:59

cereal, in your book. The first

16:01

thing that I did think of was

16:03

kooky crisp, which 90s days we'll definitely

16:05

get that for all everyone listening right

16:07

now. Yeah, absolutely. We

16:10

have a text for you. Question

16:12

for Chef Mel. How about if you want

16:14

to avoid dairy? Can you make a decent

16:16

substitute without using milk or butter? That's a

16:18

text from a listener. You're

16:22

asking a French trained safety chef

16:24

not to use butter. I

16:27

feel like butter runs through my veins

16:29

so that's such a that's hard for

16:31

me. I

16:33

would say in the gluten-free area,

16:35

all of my recipes do work

16:37

with a one-to-one substitute ratio flour

16:40

to make them gluten-free. I

16:44

would not recommend making these

16:46

with a substitute for butter.

16:49

Alright. Because I can't.

16:52

It wouldn't come out the same. I can

16:55

respect that and and hey there's

16:57

options for gluten-free. Thank you still

16:59

for that text from listeners. You

17:02

were talking about French techniques that might

17:04

scare some people away and you wanted

17:06

to talk about your recipe

17:08

for chocolate souffle, which can be quite

17:10

intimidating. What do people need to know

17:12

about how souffles work in order to

17:14

be comfortable with the process before they

17:16

start the recipe? Yes.

17:19

In the book, I actually

17:22

break down the recipe so that

17:24

it's not intimidating and it's actually

17:26

very easy to make with very

17:29

few ingredients. The

17:31

process is about creating a basically

17:33

a chocolate-thick mixture that then

17:36

gets folded into some whipped egg

17:38

whites. At the beginning of the

17:41

book, I explain all of the fundamental techniques. I

17:43

would say honestly the first 60 pages

17:45

of the book are like my favorite

17:47

because that's where I go through like

17:49

all the different types of meringues, for

17:52

example. French meringues, Swiss meringue,

17:54

Italian meringue. You are already familiar with

17:56

that by the time you get to

17:58

the souffles, which is at the end. end of the book and

18:02

you can actually prepare your mixture in

18:04

advance and then just whip up your

18:06

egg whites last minute fold

18:08

everything together and then pipe

18:10

them and bake right away. Now

18:13

for I don't

18:16

know what the word is but I would say tufle

18:18

means to like

18:20

a breath or wind so the

18:23

key here is that you want to serve

18:25

them the second they come out of the

18:28

oven because they will collapse which

18:30

is why they are called souffle. Oh that's

18:32

so interesting I didn't know that that's such a wonderful

18:35

word to apply to food. Hey listeners

18:37

if you're just joining us we're talking

18:39

to chef Mel Oseroff, baker, cookbook author,

18:41

two-time chopped winner. Her new cookbook is

18:43

sweet treats from brownies to briocheous and

18:45

we're taking your baking calls we're at

18:47

2 1 2 4 3 3

18:50

9 6 9 2. We've got another caller here I want

18:54

to bring up Annette from the Upper West Side. Hi

18:56

Annette welcome to the show what's your question? Hey

19:01

Annette are you with us? I

19:05

think we might have lost Annette but I

19:07

have her info right here and chef she's

19:09

saying that she's 92 she still

19:12

likes to bake but she's running out

19:14

of simple recipes. Are there any suggestions

19:16

of simple approachable recipes you might have

19:18

for somebody who's been who's been baking

19:20

for a while? Oh

19:22

my god yes of course I'm all

19:24

about simplicity and the whole first chapter

19:26

of this book is just making

19:29

great little cookies to have on

19:31

standby by your coffee machine ready

19:34

to go for when impromptu guests

19:36

come over like the Scotty's, French

19:38

shortbread cookies and just really

19:41

using these simple techniques that I

19:43

discussed throughout the book to keep

19:45

those cookies either nice and soft

19:47

or nice and crispy for weeks

19:49

at a time. So

19:51

I would say that this book is jam-packed with

19:53

a lot of very simple

19:56

recipes and also it

19:58

has an

20:00

entire chapter of what's called master

20:02

recipes like for friend Japan or

20:04

almond cream or things like that

20:06

that if you learn how to

20:08

make you can then turn those

20:10

into your own desserts because they

20:13

are master recipes with proper baker's

20:15

ratios and baker's percentages that allow

20:17

you to kind of manipulate those

20:19

and make them into your own

20:22

recipes any flavor combination that you

20:24

like. So the almond cream for

20:26

example you can use to fill my

20:28

mom wouldn't dust this one all the time

20:31

where she buys pre-made croissants I know it

20:33

hurts me but go with me. All right

20:35

here we make the almond

20:37

cream from the book she fills

20:39

the croissants with that makes a

20:41

simple syrup in the book and

20:43

then serve the perfect almond croissants

20:45

just by using those master recipes

20:47

kind of sections so I would

20:49

say that that's where a lot

20:52

of the flexibility in this book

20:54

lies and that's where kind of

20:56

the magic is the first 60-70 pages.

20:59

Oh wonderful and you know we just got this this

21:01

caller I can't go to the caller right now but

21:03

Bill in Trenton New Jersey was asking is there a

21:05

video that parallels the cookbook do you have anything like

21:07

that? I

21:10

wouldn't say that there's a video that parallels the

21:12

cookbook but there's something better. I actually

21:15

started a subscription club called

21:17

Baking Unwrapped where I bake

21:19

with my bakers every month

21:21

featuring new fundamental recipes from

21:23

the book and those

21:26

are all then saved on their

21:28

portal online to reference over and

21:30

over when they're practicing the recipes

21:33

so I would say that that's maybe even

21:35

better than a video where we could bake

21:37

live together every month. Oh that's lovely. I

21:39

have unlimited access to that. And Bill

21:41

I just want to say thanks for that call and

21:43

Annette before forgot to call you out thanks so much

21:45

for that you know chef Mel before we let you

21:48

go and very quickly we're moving into spring and then

21:50

the warmer months what's the next

21:52

thing you're gonna bake to really embrace the

21:54

warm weather and maybe some summery flavors just

21:56

one recipe if you had it from

22:00

the cookbooks? Anything that's on your

22:03

mind. So I would definitely go with the

22:05

citrus sunset cake with a honey glaze featuring

22:08

blood oranges, tangerines, lemons and orange

22:10

slices and it looks like a

22:13

sunset over the top. Oh, wow.

22:15

Because I kind of organized

22:17

the let the fruits

22:19

to kind of gradient

22:21

Lee go from you know, the darker

22:23

red to the yellow of the lemon.

22:26

And I would say that one is

22:28

very refreshing with the kind of citrus

22:31

aspect that a little sweet from the

22:33

honey. It is lovely. We'll have to

22:35

leave it there. Chef melody Osterauf is

22:37

holding an event tonight in the Chelsea

22:39

area at French wink boutique called French

22:41

Spring Celebration, Crepes shopping and joie de

22:43

vivre with Chef Mel. That's the night

22:45

from 530 to 830. And

22:47

the book is called sweet treats from

22:49

brownies to brioche. Chef Mel, thanks so

22:51

much for joining us. Thank

22:54

you so much for having me. Thank you.