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0:34

This is all of it on WNYC.

0:36

I'm Alison Stewart live from the WWE

0:38

Studios in SoHo. Thank you for

0:40

sharing part of your day

0:43

with us. everybody. Happy

0:45

banned books week. Now to be clear, banning

0:47

books is not a good thing.

0:49

What we mean is, let's consider this an

0:51

occasion to celebrate and highlight Some

0:54

of those targeted books that are often filled

0:56

with important perspectives, uncomfortable,

0:58

but necessary truths and complicated ideas

1:01

that deserve the deeper explorations that

1:03

a book can provide. Okay.

1:06

We'll cop to a little bit of the strays in effect.

1:08

Jason Curiosity trying to ban a book

1:10

does make it seem a little more citing, but

1:12

it is a very serious issue. This

1:15

year, banned books weeks takes on an extra

1:17

significance as anti censorship

1:19

organize patients document increasing efforts

1:21

to keep certain books with certain themes

1:24

off shelves. According to a study

1:26

by the nonprofit Pan America, over

1:29

just the last year, one thousand

1:31

six hundred forty eight books have faced

1:34

attempted bans across thirty two

1:36

states including a batch of book

1:38

challenges in New Jersey. The

1:40

book genderqueer, a memoir, was banned

1:42

in Wayne Township, Parents in

1:44

Westfield tried to ban Tony Morrison's

1:46

The Bluest Eye, and a hundred and

1:48

county school board passed a resolution banning

1:50

five LGBTQ themed books. It's

1:53

happening in New York too on Long Island, Plainview

1:55

parents complained that a middle school book called

1:57

Front Desk about a Chinese American

1:59

immigrant family was

2:02

racially diverse and tried to strip

2:04

it from the curriculum. The Pan America

2:06

report on banned books says what's

2:08

happening is, quote, unprecedented. and

2:11

it outlines a possible reason for

2:13

the surge in book banning. Half of the

2:15

ban stemmed from efforts of about fifty

2:17

advocacy groups that were mostly founded

2:19

in twenty twenty one. Here's

2:21

a quote from the report. More often

2:24

than not, current challenges to books originate

2:26

not from concerned parents acting individually,

2:28

but from political and advocacy groups

2:31

working in concert to achieve the goal of limiting

2:33

what book students can access and

2:36

read in public schools. Listeners,

2:39

we want to hear from you your band

2:41

book stories. How did you get around

2:43

a book ban where you live, what

2:45

books really weren't on your to read list until

2:47

you found out that they were banned or let us know if

2:49

you've been wrestling with any of these ideas

2:51

of censorship, or age appropriateness

2:54

in your community 212433WNYC2124339692

3:00

or maybe you wanna shout out a book that you know

3:02

is on the banned book list, but you like

3:04

people to pick up and read. 212433WNYC2124339692

3:11

is our number. Let's get you in on this conversation.

3:13

Social media is also available at

3:15

all of it, WNYC

3:18

Joining us now is Emily Dribinski.

3:20

She's a librarian at the Cuny graduate center

3:22

and has also been elected to serve next

3:24

year as the president of the American

3:26

librarian association. Emily,

3:29

nice to meet you. Thank you so much.

3:32

I'm thrilled to be here. What do you consider

3:34

to be the purpose of Bandwidth's

3:36

week? I think the purpose

3:38

of Bandwidth

3:38

is to raise awareness around

3:40

efforts to that

3:43

attack libraries and the

3:45

services and resources we provide to our communities.

3:48

I think it's crucial also to link

3:50

the book bands that we're seeing inside libraries

3:52

to bands happening elsewhere a

3:55

context where books are banned more than anywhere

3:57

else is prisons and jails, right, where

3:59

we see increasing intensified

4:02

attacks on the right to read for incarcerated

4:05

people, and also an opportunity to

4:07

talk about libraries and the important role that they serve.

4:09

Generally speaking, how does the American

4:11

Library Association mark this occasion?

4:14

The ALA marks this occasion with lots and

4:17

lots of events and conversations, and

4:20

this year we're highlighting our campaign

4:22

unite against book bands, which is pulling

4:24

together organizations and individuals from

4:27

across the country to stand against

4:29

book bands and unite in a

4:31

single voice. and it's an important

4:33

campaign that we hope will both

4:35

raise awareness and offer tools and

4:37

resources for people to fight back against these

4:39

attempts to ban books in our communities.

4:40

as someone who is listening to this and thinking,

4:43

well, what what can I do as an individual?

4:45

What are some of the things people can do to

4:47

help? Keep

4:48

books. Go to your library and check out a book.

4:50

I think when we think about book

4:52

bands, the sort of moral panic that

4:54

we see happening across the country right now is

4:56

one aspect of that. But we also

4:58

have to think about book bands as connected

5:00

to other ways that the state

5:02

has banned books essentially by

5:04

defunding libraries over the course of the

5:06

last four decades. we see.

5:09

Disinvestment, bipartisan disinvestment in

5:11

our institutions. And

5:13

the most important thing we can do is use

5:15

those institutions. I think when it comes to

5:17

the public good into public institutions,

5:19

we're in a user or lose its scenario. So

5:21

the first thing I would say is go to your library

5:23

and pick out a book and tell the library worker

5:26

there that you appreciate the fact

5:28

that they're offering that service

5:29

too. I wanna follow-up on that because you

5:32

you wrote you tweeted recently underfunding

5:34

libraries is slow motion. book

5:36

banning. Could you explain that a little bit?

5:39

Well, we see the sort of disaster happening

5:41

right now, and it's very, very real.

5:43

I'm from Idaho is my home state

5:45

and following the book ban efforts

5:48

there, which aren't just, you know, sort of,

5:51

were against an individual book and sort

5:53

of filing a petition. But it's involves

5:55

armed ofristo fascist

5:58

right wing, sort of extremist,

5:59

bringing guns to public

6:02

meetings,

6:02

staking out the

6:04

library of directors home, like, it's

6:06

really quite violent. But that's

6:08

only one way that we ban books. Another way that we

6:10

ban books is by ensuring that institutions

6:13

can't function. So underfunding

6:15

them so that we don't have the resources to purchase

6:17

materials for our collection, so that we can't

6:19

hire sufficient to select and acquire

6:21

materials and to sort of describe

6:23

them and make them accessible to you

6:26

underfunding our capital projects and

6:28

buildings such that you know, that

6:30

buildings aren't open, the hours

6:32

that working people would wanna use them,

6:34

that the spaces are not

6:37

well kept. Like, think of anytime you've

6:39

gone into a library, there's a bucket somewhere

6:42

sitting under a leak because of a

6:44

problem with the roof. it's true if every

6:46

library I've ever worked in, every library

6:48

I've ever been in. And when we make

6:50

libraries sort of

6:51

make it impossible for them to

6:54

do the work that they need to do in our communities,

6:56

that's a kind of way of keeping books out

6:58

of the hands of people also. Listeners,

7:01

we'd love get you in on this conversation. We

7:03

wanna hear your band book stories.

7:06

How did you get around a book ban where

7:08

you live? What books really weren't on your

7:10

to read list until you found out they were going

7:12

to be banned or maybe you have a book that

7:14

you would like people to read one of

7:16

the targeted books. Please call us and

7:18

tell us why. The number is 212433WNYC

7:23

That is 2124339692

7:28

We love to hear your thoughts about the

7:30

banning of books. Our social media

7:32

is at all of it. WNYC, that's

7:35

both Twitter and Instagram. My

7:37

guess is Emily Drabinsky, president-elect of

7:39

the American Library Association.

7:42

you know, you describe people showing up

7:44

at meetings armed over

7:47

discussions of books, these

7:49

challenges, seems so much more

7:51

intense over the past few years.

7:53

From your perspective, what's changed?

7:57

I

7:57

think that we have

7:59

sort of allowed

7:59

a kind of public violence

8:02

that is new. And

8:04

we haven't sort of framed the

8:06

attacks on library workers as

8:08

a form of domestic

8:09

terrorism, as a kind of

8:12

violence against public sector workers

8:14

that

8:15

needs to be addressed and needs to be addressed really

8:17

head on it directly. I was at the

8:19

Association of Rural and Small Libraries Conference

8:21

last week in Chattanooga. Multiple

8:23

librarians told stories about

8:25

having patrons throw books at them,

8:27

that this would be like sort of an ordinary

8:29

part of working life. So I think

8:31

we have to think about library of workers as

8:34

the people on the front lines of

8:37

these sort of concerted attacks

8:39

against one of the last public

8:41

institutions standing. So if you

8:43

see the, you know, it seems to me like

8:45

the logical end game of forty years

8:47

of sort

8:49

of dismantling of the public sphere

8:51

and you're left with sort

8:53

of libraries and public

8:55

education as two of the last sort of

8:57

institutions that preserve the public good. And

8:59

that's, I think, why we're seeing the

9:00

sort of level of heightened violent attack

9:03

on us. I don't even like asking this

9:05

follow-up question, but Are

9:07

librarians? Are we at the place where

9:09

librarians need to have training for

9:11

safety? I mean, I

9:12

think what we need are more librarians.

9:14

Right? that,

9:15

like, one of the stories that I heard

9:18

at the conference last week was from a librarian

9:20

who said that her library has

9:22

collaborations and connections

9:24

that built with other public and private institutions

9:26

in her town that when the

9:28

right showed up about a drag queen

9:30

story hour and like who could be against story

9:32

hour right is just

9:33

baffling to me. It

9:35

didn't get

9:36

a lot of traction in the community because the community saw

9:38

the library as the place that it was

9:40

the where the diaper bank was

9:42

run. You know, it's like they have the

9:44

community blood dried. And so in a lot of parts of

9:46

the country, the library is sort of the heart of

9:48

the community. and the thicker the

9:50

connections we can make to our

9:52

patrons and to our community,

9:54

the more the better we're

9:56

able to sort of fight back

9:58

against these incursions. So I

9:59

think the last thing we need is sort

10:01

of armed librarians. What we need are librarians

10:03

to be fully resourced and supported.

10:06

you mentioned

10:06

you needed more librarians. Is

10:09

there a decrease in the number of

10:11

librarians in the United States? they're

10:13

about

10:13

three hundred thousand of us, you know?

10:15

And

10:15

I don't have the numbers on that, but I think we

10:17

can all

10:17

you know, I've never worked in a library where

10:20

a cataloger retired and they

10:22

hired another one, right, that we have

10:24

sort of and that's I think true of

10:26

schools and public higher

10:28

education, public libraries that sort

10:30

of across any kind of public institution

10:32

you've seen a dismantling of the of

10:34

the people who make that thing go?

10:36

This is a a challenging question

10:38

because I'm sure the repair are thinking like, you

10:40

know, there are certain books that I want to

10:42

have some control over what

10:44

my child reads and what my child has

10:46

access to especially in schools. If I saw a

10:48

book that said, Johnny's mommy should stay

10:50

home and cook and not work. I'd

10:53

wanna be able to to challenge that

10:55

book. So how does the

10:57

the library association think

11:00

about parental involvement

11:02

and parental control? Well,

11:04

I mean, parents are responsible for

11:07

parenting their children, and we are

11:08

as library as responsible for providing resources

11:11

and support for the public project

11:13

of raising children. we

11:16

have policies. Right? Most

11:18

libraries have challenge policies,

11:20

and it's our task to defend the

11:22

policy, not the book. You know?

11:24

And so those exist in libraries.

11:27

But I would also say if you don't want your kids to

11:29

read that book, then make sure that they don't check

11:31

it out. And, you know, the other thing

11:33

I would say is one of the principles

11:35

of librarianship is that

11:37

every

11:37

reader has a right to decide for themselves

11:40

what they read. And that

11:42

includes children. you

11:43

know, so my kid right now is reading

11:45

dune. I can't imagine a

11:47

more boring book. Like I just it's a

11:49

genre I don't care about. I don't wanna

11:51

read it. I don't understand why he's turning this

11:53

pages like what is in his

11:55

head and he has a right

11:57

to a private life as a reader just like

11:59

I do. My

12:00

guest is Emily Drabinsky, President-elect

12:02

of the American Library Association.

12:05

We are discussing Band

12:07

Books Week If there's a band book you would like

12:09

to shout out, we would love to hear about it. 212433WNYC2124339692

12:17

Maybe there's a book that you really weren't thinking

12:19

about reading, but you saw it on a banned books list and

12:21

you thought, yeah, I'm gonna read it, check out the library,

12:23

possibly purchase it. we'd like to hear. 2124339692212433WNYC

12:31

Emily, when you won your election to be

12:33

the ALA's president, next year.

12:35

An article appeared in the federalist for people

12:37

who don't know about that. It's a conservative news

12:39

outlet that is really engaged

12:41

in the culture wars. and they

12:43

accused you of trying to expose

12:45

children to content that's not age

12:47

appropriate. It caused public

12:49

kerfuffle.

12:51

What did that episode look like from

12:53

your perspective? Well,

12:56

frankly, it looked

12:57

absurd. I'm a university library

12:59

and I've been college an academic librarian for

13:02

twenty years. I'm not

13:04

a smart peddler, and none of us

13:06

are. Right? Like, we it's

13:08

absurd on its face. Right? What

13:10

it looked like to me was an effort, you know, I

13:12

think the ride is looking for whatever bludgens it

13:14

can find.

13:16

And I'm one of those I

13:18

definitely have a political viewpoint

13:20

that I share quite openly. But I'm

13:22

one of fifty thousand ALA members,

13:24

one of three hundred thousand library

13:26

workers nationwide. And,

13:29

you know, from where

13:31

I sat, it was

13:32

just a an indication of

13:34

how afraid they are

13:37

of sort of growing, I think,

13:39

movements to push back against them.

13:41

I don't

13:41

i don't it

13:43

didn't I don't

13:44

know. Like, I just muted it. I just ignored

13:46

it. And I was like, well, they can't silence

13:49

me and they can't silence my colleagues

13:51

and crucial in these moments that we'd be

13:53

brave, that we'd be personally brave, and that we'd be

13:55

institutionally brave. And

13:57

I'm really proud to be a member of an

14:00

association that backs me and my colleagues one

14:02

hundred percent and

14:04

really grateful to the American Library

14:06

Association for the support they showed to me during

14:08

that time.

14:09

Let's take a call. Line one is

14:11

Robert calling from the upper west

14:13

side. Hi, Robert. Thanks for calling

14:15

all of it. Thank you

14:17

and praise to anybody that represents

14:20

libraries. My question

14:21

is this. the

14:23

Supreme Court has said that dark money

14:26

political contributions are considered

14:28

free speech, but book

14:30

banning is not a violation of the

14:32

first amendment. I don't

14:33

get this. I don't

14:35

get them or either, but I don't I

14:37

this this concept is really is

14:40

is really bizarre.

14:41

Robert, thank you so much for calling

14:43

in. Let's go to line two. Fiona's

14:46

calling in from the upper west side. Hi,

14:48

Fiona. Thanks for calling. Hi.

14:50

hi You were on

14:52

the air. Oh,

14:55

great. So my

14:57

question is, I guess, just as

14:59

an ordinary person. How

15:02

can I learn more about fan books

15:04

or read them or

15:06

anything having to do with them?

15:09

Fiona, thanks a lot. What is the best way

15:11

for someone to a help?

15:14

Emily, we talked a little bit about checking

15:16

out books. And to

15:18

find lists of, you know, it's banned books. I'm

15:20

sure we can we can go to Google, but are there

15:22

certain books that are sort of the the greatest

15:24

hits of banned books? that you might

15:26

want to check out. Yeah. I mean, I I would

15:28

suggest going to

15:29

the website united against Bookbands

15:31

dot org, which is the home

15:33

of the campaign

15:36

by the American Library Association where you'll

15:38

find lots and lots of lists and

15:40

data and tool kits and

15:42

strategies for support for

15:44

supporting your local library and your local

15:46

library professionals. And, you know, honestly, if you

15:48

think of any book that is

15:50

buyer about and

15:52

brown lives, black and

15:54

brown authors. If you think about any book that

15:56

is buyer about queer authors,

15:59

you can be pretty sure that those are being targeted

16:01

for attack just like the people,

16:04

Black Brown and LGBTQ plus people are

16:06

being targeted. So if you're if you're thinking,

16:08

oh, is this book banned and it's

16:10

by Tony Morrison, you can bet

16:12

that it'll be on a list. My

16:14

guest is Emily Drabinsky, President-elect

16:16

of the American Library Association. We

16:18

are talking about Band Book Week. You

16:20

are my guest as well. We'll have more of

16:22

your calls after a

16:23

quick break. This is all of

16:25

it.

16:26

This

16:32

is

16:34

all of it. I'm Alison Stewart, my

16:36

guest this hour Emily Drabinsky, president-elect

16:38

of the American Library Association.

16:41

In case you hadn't heard, it

16:43

is banned books week, that is our

16:45

conversation topic. Please give us a call, 212433WNYC

16:49

if you'd like to join the conversation. If there

16:51

is a banned book you would like

16:53

to shout out, we'd love to hear. 2124339692212433WNYCI

17:00

do wanna take Chandler, who is calling

17:02

in on line four. Chandler, thank you

17:04

so much for calling in.

17:07

Thank

17:07

you for taking my call.

17:09

It's very exciting. You're on

17:11

the app. Okay.

17:13

So I would call

17:16

out the

17:17

kite runner by Haledo Nannie,

17:19

I was, for twenty years,

17:22

his foreign rights

17:24

agent. And I'd

17:26

still the kite runner in sixty two

17:29

languages. And he has more than

17:31

fifty five million copies of all of his

17:33

books and print. And

17:35

I know that the

17:37

kite runner has transformed the

17:40

way people

17:41

think about Afghanistan's and they learned

17:43

about Afghanistan after

17:45

nine eleven and

17:46

it may be nauseous that

17:50

it's band. And also, I just heard

17:52

after that that

17:54

Tony Morrison is banned. And I used

17:56

to be a foreign scout in

17:58

New York City, and

17:59

my German client

18:02

published Tony Morrison, and then she went to

18:04

the Frankfurt Book

18:05

Fair. And she also

18:07

should not be damned. Chandler,

18:10

thank you so much for calling in.

18:12

Emily, when you think about your

18:14

role, as the American Library Association's

18:17

President, what do you see as the

18:19

role, especially given these localized

18:21

attempts to ban books

18:23

from libraries? you

18:25

know,

18:25

I think the part of the role

18:27

is doing things like this, talking on the radio

18:30

about libraries and library workers and what

18:32

we need and what we can offer our

18:34

communities. I think what we desperately need

18:36

right now is an affirmative narrative about

18:38

what libraries do, an affirmative

18:41

story about what

18:43

public institutions, like libraries,

18:45

like higher education, like

18:47

public schools, what they can offer our communities,

18:50

parks, all of those things. And

18:52

so I think part of the role is finding

18:54

a narrative that resonates

18:57

louder than the

18:59

far right sort of story that we're all beholden to

19:01

right now. We are very much

19:04

on the defense here, and all

19:06

of us know that we need

19:09

a positive vision for the future, and I think that's

19:11

something that I can offer.

19:13

Let's talk to Michael on

19:15

line six calling in from Manhattan.

19:18

Hi, Michael. Thanks for calling all of it.

19:20

Hi. Thank you

19:21

for taking my call, important conversation.

19:23

This is Soda from the

19:25

other side. I be

19:27

interested to know what your guest thinks about banning books

19:30

that promote violence and ethnic

19:32

hatred. I don't think I would

19:34

want to see mine comp for

19:36

the protocols or the elders of Zion

19:38

or the Turner Diaries on

19:41

a school library bookshelves, and I

19:43

wonder what she would think about

19:45

that. Yeah. I mean,

19:46

III agree with

19:48

you. Right? Books that foment

19:51

hatred have no place.

19:54

but also we have an

19:56

obligation as professional librarians

19:58

to build collections

19:59

that serve the needs, meet the needs of

20:02

our communities. So think one of the things

20:04

that I'm struck by in the

20:06

conversation is the sense that

20:09

regular ordinary people should decide what books are

20:11

in the library. Like, we are it

20:13

is our job. Right? Like, all we do all day

20:15

is look at what's being published, look

20:17

at what our community is reading,

20:19

trying to find books that will meet the needs of

20:21

our community. Kimber Glendon, who was

20:23

under attack in Boundary County,

20:26

Idaho, and resigned from

20:28

her position due to the violent threats against her,

20:30

I think said it quite

20:32

put it quite well, you know. And

20:34

she said, it's and

20:37

she had been attacked for not even having these books in

20:39

her collection. Right? She didn't even have them. That's how

20:41

you know that it is largely performative and

20:43

that isn't really about terrorizing people.

20:46

But, you know, she said that if

20:48

someone requests a book and we don't have it

20:50

in our collection and as gender clear, we'll

20:53

get on inter library loan. If we get enough

20:55

requests for it, we'll purchase the book and add it to our

20:57

collection. That's what

20:58

we do for a living.

20:59

Let's talk

21:00

to Ellen, calling in

21:02

from Monmouth County, New Jersey. Hi, Ellen. Thanks for

21:04

calling all of it. Hi,

21:07

my

21:07

pleasure. I was listening to your show and I just

21:09

want to let you know that my five

21:11

month old grandson was baptized

21:14

last Saturday. My sister was

21:16

looking for a card for him.

21:18

And while she was there to purchase the card,

21:20

she saw the sign books that

21:22

are banned. So she

21:23

went over, and she found this little board

21:25

book for kids called

21:27

feminism for boys. And she says,

21:29

I'm buying that.

21:31

So

21:31

that's one of the gifts he got for his

21:34

baptism.

21:34

And it's

21:35

incredible. There's nothing wrong

21:37

with it. I read it. And

21:40

but just the title maybe,

21:43

feminism, was that what turned them

21:45

off?

21:45

Thank

21:46

you for calling in, Ellen. Let's talk to

21:48

Janet. calling from New York Airport. Hi, Janet. Thanks for calling

21:50

all of it. Hi. Yeah.

21:52

Thanks

21:52

for taking my call. I just wanted to

21:54

mention ghost voice. by

21:57

Joel Parker Road. It's a

21:59

fabulous

21:59

book. I mean, talk about kerfuffle. It

22:02

was a huge issue. In

22:04

my school district, I am one

22:06

of the very conservative holdouts

22:08

in the state of New Jersey. And

22:10

and people thought this was, you know,

22:13

promoting anti police

22:15

rhetoric and quite the opposite. It's

22:17

just a fabulous book, so I

22:19

really recommend ghost boys for everyone. Janet,

22:22

thank you for calling in. Let's talk

22:24

to I think it's another Janet from

22:26

Stanford Connecticut. Hi, Janet.

22:28

Thanks for calling. Hi.

22:30

I just wanted to first

22:32

just shout out to Librarians. If

22:34

I can remember as a kid,

22:36

my mom would take me the library and that was one

22:38

of the safest, most

22:40

amazing places I ever went. But

22:42

there's another thing that we

22:45

resource for all of us. I don't know if you

22:47

heard of Alibaba's Dan

22:49

Book Club, but it was started

22:51

in January and every week

22:54

he talks about a band book. I have

22:56

read so many books

22:58

on that list that

23:00

are amazing. Dear

23:02

Martin, shout

23:05

out of darkness, even

23:07

things like the killer mockingbird.

23:09

He talks it after

23:12

he tells you what the book is then. He has the session

23:14

with

23:14

somebody with the writers, if the

23:17

writers still alive or some somebody who

23:19

knows a lot about the book. and

23:21

discusses it. And it is an

23:23

amazing resource for band

23:25

book. Janet, thank you so much

23:27

for calling in. My guest is Emily Dribinski,

23:29

president-elect of the American Library

23:31

Association. It is banned books

23:33

week. So I want to play a clip Emily.

23:35

This morning on our news program morning

23:37

edition, we heard from Summer

23:39

Bromier, English teacher in Oklahoma,

23:41

who was placed on leave for premier

23:43

students to the Brooklyn libraries

23:45

ban books initiative, which

23:47

helps students from anywhere. Anybody any

23:50

state can access certain banned books.

23:52

Let's listen to a bit of what

23:54

she said. one text that my

23:56

department had had a conversation about

23:58

prior to the start of

23:59

school. So the first

24:00

day of school is is when the

24:03

the complaint came was

24:06

Angie Thomas's The Hate You

24:08

Gives. This is a text that's part of

24:10

our official reading list. I taught tenth

24:12

grade English, So that's English

24:14

too. We would do a whole class

24:16

read with that text, meaning

24:18

every student in class would read through

24:20

that text talk

24:22

about it, we would do our our activities.

24:25

That test because, of

24:27

course, it it deals with very,

24:29

very important issues of

24:31

of systemic racism and and raising

24:33

your voice and, you know,

24:35

Black Lives Matter, which is you

24:37

know, an incredibly powerful significant

24:40

movement in modern American society.

24:43

We had a feeling that would be the

24:45

kind of text that the legislation in

24:47

our state would target.

24:50

And so there was some

24:52

conversation about removing

24:54

that text from the circulation or

24:56

at least offering what I

24:59

will call alternatives to

25:01

lessen the chance of

25:03

a complaint. Emily, we're hearing in

25:05

that conversation, teachers are making decisions

25:07

to avoid breaking rules they might

25:09

disagree with, sort of trying to

25:11

find these alternatives Have you

25:13

been hearing this conversation among your

25:15

colleagues? I think there's some of

25:17

that. I think when

25:17

you are

25:18

already dealing with a lot. When you're

25:21

already dealing with you know, a bathroom that

25:23

doesn't work anymore with

25:25

the fact that you are the last

25:27

institution standing. So you're seeing the

25:29

impact of of vast

25:32

poverty abandonment, organized abandonment

25:34

of so many parts of society coming into your

25:36

doors. Like, the last thing you need is one of

25:38

these moral panic challenges about a

25:40

book. like, the hit you give, which is an

25:42

exceptional read. And one of the only things I could get

25:44

my kid to read when he was eleven.

25:46

Right? Like, get him to read a book, which

25:48

I think matters. And

25:51

so I think it

25:53

makes sense that people would do that, which is why they

25:55

need to know that all of us stand in solidarity

25:57

with librarians as they push back against

25:59

this.

25:59

and we need to

26:02

focus on the needs of the library

26:04

workers who are on the front lines of the fight and give them

26:06

the tools necessary.

26:07

to organize against

26:09

that and to feel confident

26:11

that they can take a stand and not be alone

26:13

in that. Let's talk to Lauren calling in from

26:15

Berken County. Hi, Lauren. for calling all of it. You're

26:17

on the air. Thank you

26:19

so much. The reason I'm calling is, I

26:22

remember when I was in high school in the

26:24

late nineties, one my favorite teachers told

26:26

me about a parent complaining about the book of

26:28

snow falling on theaters by David

26:30

Guterson, and a parent had complained basically

26:32

because they were scenes of sex and masturbation in

26:34

the book. And the teacher

26:36

told me this. So, of course, the first thing I had to do

26:38

is go out and find this book and read this book

26:40

because if somebody was having a hissy fit about it, that

26:42

meant it was something I needed to

26:44

be reading. And I think that so many of these people

26:46

people who are working to ban books, they don't

26:48

seem to realize that that is what teenagers do.

26:50

If you tell them they can't have access to something. The

26:52

immediate thing they're going to do is go and

26:54

have access to it. And in

26:56

case in point, when I go to BAT, when I

26:58

see those bookstore, shelves of

27:00

banned books, I've read eighty percent of those

27:02

books, because teenagers are just

27:04

gonna do the opposite of what they tell you tell them

27:06

to do. Thank

27:07

you for calling in. Emily,

27:09

before we run out of times, are there certain books

27:11

that you would like people to think about

27:14

maybe reading that have been on these banned books list. I think we know some

27:16

of the more obvious ones to kill a

27:18

mockingbird, some of the

27:20

Tony Morrison books, ones that maybe people

27:22

haven't heard of and that you would like

27:24

me to check out? You know, I think

27:27

the book that was most challenged this

27:29

year is called genderqueer And

27:31

I have more than one story about a

27:33

library worker getting in trouble for

27:36

posting a picture of themselves holding the

27:38

book for talking

27:40

about the book with

27:42

friends and patrons, and it's just

27:44

a flash point. So I think

27:46

that's an essential book to read and

27:48

the author is the spokesperson

27:51

for banned books week this week. So it's

27:53

probably one that's on your radar and I think it's

27:55

necessary for everybody to pick it up and

27:57

read

27:57

it. and let's be a little bit forward looking,

27:59

what are

27:59

what's something

28:00

you're gonna do when you take

28:03

over? As president

28:04

of the American library, so something

28:06

you've been wanting to really do. Well,

28:08

I'm gonna

28:09

have a really big party and

28:11

my mom's gonna be really proud of

28:14

me And I'm going to

28:16

really focus my attention on the needs of

28:18

library workers and working to

28:20

build organizing training into everything that we do

28:22

as part of the association. because we

28:24

all need the tools necessary to advocate for

28:26

ourselves, for our patrons, for our

28:28

communities. And are you concerned at all

28:30

about your own safety? Not

28:32

at all. at

28:33

all. I'm not concerned about my own safety

28:34

at all. I feel like I

28:37

am in this fight with so many

28:39

people we are all standing together,

28:41

and I feel a great sense of solidarity

28:43

just from the time I've spent with you on

28:45

the radio. And so what I feel

28:47

is excitement about the

28:50

positive future that we're all creating together.

28:52

We have been talking about

28:55

banned books week. Thanks to everybody who called in and

28:57

made recommendations. You can continue to make

28:59

recommendations on our social media at

29:01

all of it, WNYC and

29:03

thanks again to our guest. Emily

29:05

Drabinsky, President-elect of the American

29:08

Library Association. Emily,

29:10

thank you so much for being with

29:12

us. Thank you for

29:13

having me. I appreciate it. a great

29:15

day.