0:24

Tournament time is here and there's nothing

0:26

like basketball in March.

0:27

Tons of tournament games with high stakes

0:30

and high drama, all competing to cut

0:32

down the nets as national champs.

0:34

If thanks to our partners at DraftKings, it's about

0:36

to get even bigger. All new customers who bet

0:39

just five dollars will get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus

0:41

bets instantly.

0:42

Want to know what you can do with you one hundred and fifty dollars

0:44

in bonus bets. Stand on the action and use

0:46

your bonus bets on DraftKings same game parlays

0:49

for a shot at an even bigger payout.

0:51

You fell out your bracket, Place your bets and

0:53

see what rides to the top with DraftKings Sportsbook.

0:55

Download the Draft Kings Sportsbook app now. Sign

0:58

up using promo cod Smoke and bet just

1:00

five dollars on any wager and get one

1:02

hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets

1:04

instant. That's Promo Code Smoke only

1:06

a Draft Kings sportsbook. The Crown

1:09

is yours.

1:10

If you've been listening to All the Smoke or All the

1:12

Smoke Unplugged, you know we're really high on

1:14

women's basketball. The talents and the confidencies

1:17

women have are making this year's tournament a must

1:19

watch, and games are being played all around

1:21

the country. The best way to track the schedule and

1:23

get the tickets is with game Time. I

1:25

just pulled up the app and I see that there's women's games

1:28

in LA this week. Or when I'm traveling, I can

1:30

see which games are near my location, and I can easily

1:32

see the whole NCAA tournament schedule. Game

1:34

Time has the best layout and it makes it so

1:37

easy. I'm always checking the game Time apt for

1:39

upcoming events, like Offset is in town this

1:41

weekend, and our guy Buster Rhymes

1:43

will be in California later this month, and so

1:45

will the greats like Lauren Hill. Some concerts

1:48

aren't to be missed, and I keep up with all

1:50

the tours on game Time. I know I'm getting

1:52

the view of the stage I expect because I can see the view

1:54

of my seats before I even buy the tickets, and game

1:57

Time picks the seats for the best prices. Download

1:59

the game Time app, create an account using code

2:01

Smoke for twenty dollars off your first purchase.

2:03

That's coach Smoke and twenty dollars off your first

2:06

purchase. Download the game time app today,

2:08

last minute tickets, lowest prices

2:10

guaranteed. Welcome back

2:12

All Star twenty twenty four Indiana,

2:15

Indiana, Indneapolis.

2:16

Yep, we here your old stumba grounds

2:18

and this stops knowing sod.

2:20

Yeah, we had a good day yesterday, some great guests. You

2:22

got a bucket episode. But I'm excited about

2:24

this one because, you know, growing up

2:26

in northern California, I got a chance to see him play

2:29

from the beginning when he got traded

2:31

to Sacramento. Didn't necessarily want to go, but the

2:33

way he kind of changed the thinking. They're and

2:35

to me, one of the most

2:38

underappreciated players.

2:40

I think in the history of the game. The

2:42

greatest man can score the ball, and his accolades

2:45

and how his peers respected him though,

2:47

I think that's what's most important. But welcome to the show

2:49

man, Mitch Rison. Mitch. We appreciate

2:51

you, man, bet you,

2:54

I mean again. Decorated career, six

2:56

time All Star, five time All NBA. Want

2:59

to ring with the two congratulations

3:02

in the Hall of Fame in twenty fourteen

3:04

nomination. How's life? What's

3:06

going on with you these days? Man?

3:08

Life is good, man, Just trying to stay out

3:10

of the way. You know, we always read it to

3:12

you everywhere. But just enjoying

3:14

life, man, and join the freedom

3:17

life.

3:18

Obviously, one of the best scores ever averaged twenty

3:21

points or more of your first ten seasons.

3:23

Is a very short list of people who did that. What

3:25

was your philosophy on scoring?

3:28

I think for me, you

3:30

know, I just

3:33

wanted to always be aggressive and be

3:35

consistent.

3:37

So I think I took it on myself.

3:40

I think my first year getting Rookie of the Year

3:43

and going into that summer. You always hear

3:45

about second

3:47

year Jinx not being prepared

3:50

the second year and falling off,

3:52

So I think that summer, man, I just worked

3:54

my butt off not to let that happen.

3:57

And then it just became a habit to try to

3:59

add something because when I first came

4:01

into the league, I wasn't a shooter,

4:04

you know what I mean.

4:04

I was.

4:04

I was that's hard to believe, Yeah, I was. I was attacking

4:07

the realm and people didn't know I was. I was a dunker,

4:11

yeah, And so I posted

4:13

up a lot. I was a slasher, and

4:16

then you know, I just started working on my three

4:18

point shot. And start working on my outside game,

4:20

and that's kind of helped me throughout

4:22

my career.

4:23

But also, I mean, as much as you scored, you play defense

4:25

too. Yes, that was something you definitely hung your

4:27

hat on. Get a credit. No you didn't, but you

4:30

got you got praised by by one of the greatest

4:32

you know, Michael Jordan quoted Mitch is the closest

4:34

thing I've watched to myself in the mirror, and

4:36

that was on both ends of the ball, right, And that was

4:38

back when when guys went on both sides of the

4:40

ball. So when you hear arguably

4:43

Michael Jordan, the greatest players have ever said when like

4:45

I said, although I feel like you've been overlooked.

4:48

The people you played against it and people who know the

4:50

game respect you. But when you hear some someone like

4:52

Mike say that about you, what did you think?

4:54

Oh man, it was very special.

4:56

They're very special to even hear from my peers

4:58

because I was in Sacramento at

5:00

the time and it wasn't getting a lot of play,

5:03

and anybody on the East coast, you

5:05

know, our games was coming on at eleven twelve o'clock

5:08

and they couldn't really see it, and they wasn't

5:10

playing Sacramento at the time anyway, and so

5:12

it was very difficult for me to come from gold

5:15

to State that we were probably

5:17

two or three players away, I mean probably one

5:19

player away, and then going to Sacramento

5:21

rebuilding. So it was it

5:24

was really hard to handle

5:27

that trade. But I just tried to be consistent

5:30

as possible. Didn't look at the

5:32

scoreboard. I remember that I had

5:34

to continue to keep playing hard, and

5:36

the only way I can do that it just don't

5:38

look at the scoreboard, because we wasn't winning

5:41

no games at that time.

5:42

So I just wanted to try to play hard.

5:44

Do you remember one time in practicing Goldos State? It

5:46

was there was practicing and shooting or something. Yeah,

5:48

and you gave me a key to average twenty. Yes,

5:51

you made it simplified. I mes, like stack

5:53

just about five points a quarter? Yes,

5:55

just get five a quarter, that's right. And you know,

5:57

and I'm playing basketball all the time, and I never

5:59

just thought about like how easy it is to get

6:01

five points a quarter, right, two buckets

6:03

in the free throw that's right. But you put me to

6:06

like jack five points a quarters. All you do, you're

6:08

gonna get five points a quarter. But ever

6:10

since then, I'm like, it's simplified. I'm in a

6:12

game like good, twenty points, ain't nothing no.

6:14

More, right, right, Especially you

6:16

got the ball in your hands, and if you can get to

6:18

the free throw line, it really sometimes

6:20

when you're you know, you're not having a great shoot night,

6:23

but sometimes we get to the free throw line, it really

6:25

kind of gets you back in the.

6:26

Cruse and you can get ten from thee.

6:28

Ten of TIMPs from the line. And so I think

6:30

that was a big part of my game of doing nothing.

6:33

Yeah, well, raised by your mom and grandpa.

6:35

You played football growing up in for a lot of deal, right,

6:38

just said you grew up with Michael Irvings and other guys.

6:40

What was it like growing up in for a lot of deal?

6:41

I'm playing football being such a cold,

6:44

cold motherfucking basketball.

6:45

Well, I you know in foot in Florida,

6:48

man, you grow up, you know, in my crib

6:50

I had I had a football in my crib.

6:52

Everybody, I mean everybody, you know what I mean.

6:54

And and and started playing

6:56

football, and football was my number

6:58

one sport. I just started playing

7:00

basketball or to the tenth grade, really,

7:02

yeah, to the tenth grade and went

7:06

out for the team were ninth grade. I went out for the team and

7:08

I ain't have no grades at that time, you

7:10

know what I mean, because I was rebelling.

7:12

My mom was moving and everything.

7:13

But went out for the tenth grade,

7:15

made the team, and the rest

7:18

was history.

7:18

I loved it.

7:19

Never went back to football and

7:21

enjored it and just kept climbing from there.

7:24

Who was around I mean, you mentioned Michael Irving. Any other

7:26

people that went pro and other sports? Oh?

7:28

Yeah, man, it was Lorenzo White, Yeah,

7:30

who played from Michigan State

7:33

and then went to Houston. I think at the time, Houston

7:35

Oilers. We had Bennie and Brian

7:37

Blades, both brothers. You know, Vernon

7:39

Maxwell was around Brown

7:42

at that time. Dion

7:46

was a little bit more up north, but

7:48

he was there, Gary Sheffield

7:51

all the flow. It was all Florida.

7:52

Boy. What was it you played?

7:54

I played defensive endy tight end.

7:56

Okay, okay, so

7:58

we're just talking about grades. You didn't love school, but

8:01

it had to click at some point? When

8:03

did it click?

8:04

Well?

8:05

I loved school, but I was rebelling

8:07

because my mom kept moving and

8:09

I wanted to, you know, go back where

8:11

my friends were when they were getting ready to go to high school. So

8:13

I was like, man, I ain't gonna go to school because I want to go back

8:15

over that way. And so it took me

8:18

probably a couple of years to kind of get that under

8:21

my belt. But my mom moved back to

8:25

Fort Lauderdale because I moved to Deerfield at the time,

8:28

where Eddie Jones and you know all them from,

8:30

and so I moved back to Fort

8:32

Lauderdale. That's when I started saying, man, I

8:34

went out for the basketball team, made the team

8:37

my ninth grade year, but they cut me. So

8:40

I said, you know, mom, I really want to play basketball

8:42

now, but I need to go back to

8:44

Florida and I'll show you if

8:46

I can good good grades, and I'll show you that I can

8:48

change. And I mean I had to go to night school,

8:52

day school, vocational

8:54

school, everything to get prepared

8:56

for my tenth grade year.

8:57

You know, Jaylen Bronston said something yesterday

8:59

about how moving around and bouncing around

9:01

a lot with his dad.

9:02

Yes to thank him too, you know, no question about

9:04

it, because you you know, you grow up with that unit, and

9:07

when you're a young kid, you go into

9:09

a whole nother environment.

9:10

You have to really kind of start

9:12

get.

9:13

Friends friends are

9:16

and we all know that.

9:17

Now when you have kids, at

9:19

some point in time, when they get to a certain age, you gotta

9:21

star. You got to slow up and then let

9:23

them, you know, gather their friends or

9:26

whatever and get comfortable.

9:27

My life.

9:28

We all have a certain

9:31

music, a soundtrack in our head is like the

9:33

soundtrack of our life.

9:34

Yes, you are big into R and B. Yes,

9:37

what what role the music play in your life? I mean

9:39

I think it plays a big role, man. I

9:41

mean just growing up with run DMC, you

9:44

know, watching them and Jada kids.

9:46

You know it's a little younger but great

9:49

music, cool mode. Yeah,

9:52

come on, man, like l L classic.

9:54

So I mean that that. I mean music gets you

9:56

fired up and pomp uh and

9:59

so you know you use it for different things.

10:01

You know, it's great at the Mobiley

10:03

Community College.

10:04

What kind of experience was that to

10:07

shape you into the player you you end up being.

10:09

Yeah, man, So in high school

10:11

I played the center and for a position,

10:14

and so I've been playing right

10:17

right, So I was posting up. That's

10:19

all I was doing at that time. I was just dunking

10:21

and just playing hard. Coming from football

10:23

to basketball, I felt like it really helped me because

10:26

I was aggressive and really

10:28

didn't have all my skills at the time, but I knew how

10:30

to play hard and UH and so

10:32

when I went to went to Mobiley, I

10:35

really had to start playing the two guard position.

10:38

I can remember University of Arkansas was

10:40

recruiting me.

10:40

That's when they had Avan Robinson,

10:43

Big Joe Clyde and they were playing

10:45

Houston, and I loved Houston team with

10:47

Elijah One and

10:50

all those guys. So I went to the went to the game

10:52

on my recruiting trip, and

10:54

I wanted to get to the game earlier to see, you

10:57

know, the lodge one of them in the dunk, because that's

10:59

like a pro dunk. They was dunking

11:01

in the warmup lives.

11:04

And so when I saw large One come out and I'm

11:06

playing the four position at high school, I'm like, I'm.

11:08

Not ready,

11:11

man, I'm not ready. I'm not ready.

11:13

And so I ended up going to UH Mobiley

11:16

and working every summer. I didn't go back

11:18

home, and I had to start working on

11:20

my outside skills, my card skills,

11:23

and so it took me a while because I had to change my shot.

11:25

I used to shoot on the side. My

11:28

coach was making me shoot with the ball

11:30

at my forehead. So it took me about a

11:32

good two years to develop

11:34

that and then it worked.

11:36

Out, working out. Yeah, and then

11:38

off to k State. Yep, what was that

11:40

experience? Like, I really didn't want to go to

11:42

k State, you know what I mean.

11:43

But my coach at the time was Dana Auburn

11:46

who coaches Oregon,

11:49

and he wanted to get out of out

11:51

of a junior college Kansas

11:53

stayed at the time. Was offered him an

11:55

assistant job, and he

11:58

convinced me Picker's deal. Yea, you

12:01

know, the go to k State at

12:04

that time. My mom loved him and he

12:06

took you know, he made sure that I was doing

12:09

my books and doing everything when I was in junior college.

12:12

So and long Cruge at the time was getting

12:14

the job at Kansas State, and

12:16

so he said, I build the whole team around you because

12:18

you're coming from JUCO.

12:20

You know, you're going to some other system.

12:22

They already have players there, So you

12:24

come here, I build the whole team around you. And

12:26

uh yeah, I went there and then yeah,

12:28

man, everything.

12:30

Yeah, it worked out, worked out, worked

12:32

out a.

12:33

Lot of talent before in that JUCO circuit,

12:35

though Larry Johnson was

12:38

in there.

12:39

Yes, you remember, yep,

12:41

John scheunk Kill was a little later than me.

12:44

But they remember how they had Bou Harvey St.

12:47

John's.

12:48

They had some players that are Ricky Grace at

12:51

that time.

12:52

But yeah, uh now

12:54

you have what the prep prep school

12:58

at the time, everybody was going JUCO, so

13:00

Juco, Harvey Grant was

13:02

in there as well. So Juco was

13:05

loaded, man, I mean every night was

13:07

loaded.

13:07

Yeah.

13:07

Yeah, we had my team.

13:09

I mean we went I think we went sixty

13:12

nine and eight my two years there,

13:14

and I mean we had my I

13:16

averaged eleven points, my

13:19

ten points my first year, sixteen

13:21

points my second year. It was a development,

13:24

you know what I mean. But we had seven guys

13:26

and double figures. So we had

13:28

a crew. Our leading scorer was averaging like thirteen

13:30

points, so everyone so everybody. Yeah,

13:33

we had had a guy by the name of what

13:35

was his name, but he played at

13:37

Missouri. He was the rookie of the year Missouri.

13:40

He flunked out. He was coming to the Juco. He

13:42

was six ' eight point guard and

13:45

our team was so loaded he came off the bench.

13:47

Really, so we had we.

13:49

Had a lot of people went to JUCO.

13:51

You know, a lot of people made a lot of people that was a heavy

13:53

route early off nineteen eighty eight the

13:56

Olympics, the last time it was all college

13:58

players. What was that experience

14:00

like for you?

14:01

It was great to get on the Olympic team. I

14:03

think the experience we could have definitely

14:05

played a little better. I think we didn't use our

14:08

talents as we should have. You know,

14:10

at that time, John John Thompson was a boy.

14:12

He was he was busting our balls. But

14:14

really he had us working

14:17

so hard.

14:17

Man.

14:17

We didn't really work on shooting

14:20

because you've ever seen his team.

14:21

They were all about defense. But

14:23

we had we had a young team.

14:25

But at that time the European

14:27

team had caught up and they they

14:29

had Sharonus, Marcellonis, they had Sabonis,

14:32

they had uh Diva. All

14:35

of those guys they've been playing together

14:37

for about eight eight nine years. We

14:39

had got together for a couple of months and they

14:41

were grown men at that time. Uh

14:44

and so yeah, we lost the Olympics in eighty

14:46

eight. That's when they switched it over and

14:48

made it start playing pros.

14:51

Talk to us about Sabonis because a lot of people don't.

14:53

We got the older vote version of.

14:57

The Greatest oh my god, bro I mean he could pass,

15:00

he was unbelievable, had a hook shot,

15:02

had I mean he throw passes

15:04

behind his back and at that time he could run

15:06

a little bit. But the head was about this

15:09

big I mean everybody, I mean everything,

15:12

everything, the same thing, everything and bigger

15:15

and bigger, and you couldn't get around him.

15:18

He was like shot, yeah, you know what I mean, with

15:20

all of the skills, he had everything. Man, he

15:22

was a good player. He specially he was a good player.

15:24

But you got I mean, obviously John Thompson coached that team.

15:26

You had David Robinson, Hersey Hawkins, Dan Marley,

15:29

Bimbo Coles, the name a few, any any any

15:31

cool off the court experience of just being

15:33

in the Olympic experience.

15:35

Man, we had some great experience.

15:36

I can remember a time where we

15:38

were having Yeah, we were

15:41

playing Egypt, I think, and we

15:43

had beat Egypt by I think sixty two

15:45

points. And uh, we

15:47

come in the locker room and we're high five

15:49

and we're having a good time and John Thompson

15:52

consent that said, can I.

15:54

Cuss on him? Shit? Y'all ass

15:56

down?

15:57

They all did him do ship your

16:00

practice ship and we're going to practice.

16:02

After the game, after the game, like, oh my god.

16:05

Yeah.

16:05

And it was kind of that Bobby Knight. You know

16:08

that that Bobby Knight did that as well. Where he were

16:10

you know, after games he would make you go go

16:13

to practice and were like, man, come on, man, we want to enjoy

16:15

the festivities.

16:17

But we know he wasn't having that at all.

16:20

We went to practice. Wow, running,

16:23

I mean running running.

16:25

We would do this thing called we

16:28

do things called pyramids, so where

16:30

you were run one time down,

16:33

yes, all the way up to

16:35

twelve and come back. But

16:38

John thing was you cannot grab

16:40

your shorts, can't bend down,

16:43

can't go and you know, hold onto

16:46

the wall, onto the backboard.

16:47

If he sees that, we start over. And

16:50

so j R.

16:51

Reed make us start made us start over a lot.

16:54

Yeah, he made us start over, no

16:56

question about it.

16:57

Uh. Dream Team too, obviously

17:00

dream Team one when did their thing? You were part of Dream

17:03

Team two in Atlanta? What

17:06

was it Atlanta? Like First and Foremost? But there was also

17:08

a bombing at the Oalympics.

17:10

Correct, Yes, yeah, that

17:12

was I think it was.

17:13

It was a great time because I never thought I'd be able to

17:15

have an opportunity to get back because I

17:17

was on the last team in eighty eight to

17:19

lose it. So seeing David Robinson

17:21

and some of the guys that played with me get

17:24

an opportunity to get back to the Olympics.

17:27

Man, I never thought I'd get an opportunity,

17:29

but it was playing so well and they called me, uh

17:31

to be on the team.

17:33

It was great to be in Atlanta because.

17:34

My family have family in Atlanta,

17:37

all my families and from Florida, so there

17:39

it was a great opportunity for them to come and

17:41

see me and be right there in

17:43

the States. The truck, yeah right, the

17:45

Olympics. Man, all my friends and family you

17:48

know, came now. But the bombing was was was

17:50

definitely scary. I can remember being in a

17:52

hotel hotel shaking and

17:55

going out to the to the balcony and seeing

17:57

the smoke and people running everywhere.

17:59

So it was really really scary moment.

18:01

We didn't know what was going on, but we

18:03

grat we gathered and gathered together,

18:06

got together and uh, you know, the police said

18:08

everyone kind of protected us and made sure that.

18:11

I mean, obviously a lot of hype about the Dream

18:13

Team and it's just due, but you guys, have

18:15

you g Hill, Shaq, Reggie

18:18

Miller, Penny Stockton, Malone,

18:20

y'all was loaded too. We were loaded. Talked us about

18:22

that team, and obviously we saw what you guys

18:24

did on off the court. But a lot of people who don't

18:26

get a chance to play this game. Some

18:28

of the funnest times are off the court, on the bus,

18:30

in the locker, the ship, talking the playing flights.

18:33

But we had so much fun. I mean,

18:35

we had a lot of fun.

18:36

And back then, now if they if

18:38

they had cameras back then, I

18:40

mean, shit,

18:43

all bad.

18:43

Man Charles Brockert have been in

18:45

jail. I

18:48

can remember we were.

18:50

We went out somewhere and Charles,

18:53

he was always a friendly guy, you know, you

18:55

know, he'll he'll talk to anybody. But then when

18:57

you disrespected, you know, and that guy

19:00

had a little too drunk, and uh and

19:02

Charles, Charles, Charles.

19:03

Hit him a little bit.

19:04

You know, we

19:07

got we got the practice next day because we went

19:09

out and all of a sudden we see the police

19:11

coming in and uh, you know, coach

19:13

sat us down.

19:14

And who was the coach of that team.

19:16

It was Lady Wilkins.

19:18

Yeah, yeah, he sat us down and

19:20

in the poet I can remember the police saying that, hey,

19:23

like, listen, you guys got to watch yourself.

19:25

You know, you got to be able to walk away.

19:28

And I remember Charles said, well, y'all gonna be right back

19:30

here tomorrow because if somebody get

19:32

in my face, I'm gonna hit him again, I'm

19:35

gonna hit him again, and we're gonna keep

19:37

doing it. But yeah, that was that was a really a

19:39

fun team, though, really good team.

19:42

Fifth pick in the ninety eight draft.

19:45

Excuse me, nineteen

19:47

ninety eighty eight drafts, Gill And you

19:50

were told by somebody.

19:51

We know very well, who I love dearly.

19:54

Who means the world to me. You were told by him,

19:56

and let me know what you was thinking after he told you this. Yo,

19:59

Man, you terrible. You need a lot

20:01

of work. Oh man,

20:03

Nelly

20:03

done, Nelson.

20:07

I can't remember coming from the Olympics.

20:10

Uh you know what I mean.

20:11

I want to get ready and get prepared to

20:13

play for the for the season, because you know, the Olympics

20:15

we lost were like man, we were we thought

20:17

that.

20:18

They were going to shoot the player down.

20:19

Man. We had lost the game.

20:21

So I go into Golden State

20:23

and I didn't have I didn't sign my contract, so I

20:25

said, I go over there, just go to Golden State.

20:27

And they're running, they're running some games.

20:29

And so I got off the plane from

20:32

China from Soul,

20:34

Korea, I mean tired, but I said, man,

20:36

I'm gonna going Hoop.

20:37

Went over there and Hoop.

20:38

And he was there, and I guess

20:40

I played terror and he was like,

20:42

boy, you need a lot of work, man,

20:44

you Terror. I'm like what you talk

20:47

about. I got back on the plane and left. I'm like,

20:49

man, I ain't signed my contract. Yeah, I'm just trying

20:51

to come in, you know, and get ready. But yeah,

20:53

but but but Nelly.

20:54

Was like that, you know that Nellie

20:57

was a straight shooting but crazy

20:59

believe that.

21:00

Oh he believed me because he coached me. U

21:02

back then, we used to have Orlando Classic.

21:06

No, they was yell the summ League. Yeah, right before the

21:09

right before the draft. And it

21:11

should get back to that where it

21:13

doesn't matter if you're a number one or

21:15

you're number sixty.

21:17

Everybody played against each yeam.

21:19

So if you were ranked number one

21:21

and two guard, you play against

21:23

the ten god that's ranked and

21:25

you battle. And so Nelly was

21:28

my coach at the time, never said

21:30

anything to me, never know that I was going to go to

21:32

Golden State. You know, we would just talk, but he

21:34

wouldn't. I never knew he was gonna draft

21:36

me. But at that time, they would

21:38

have a car. I mean, NBA coaches

21:41

coached the summer league and so get

21:43

a feel of the guys and uh, and

21:45

then you go into the draft and so yeah,

21:48

he drafted me there.

21:49

But Nelly was hub down

21:51

a cookie. I mean I was. I think at that time

21:53

I was.

21:53

Supposed to be ranked like going

21:55

in the draft like twenty two. And

21:58

after that, after that came out, they say I'll

22:00

be top five.

22:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:05

What was your early impression of the time when

22:07

you got that open? Oh? Man, man,

22:09

I love Oakley bro you

22:11

know, hitting

22:17

it, I feel it's different.

22:19

Yeah, it's different now. But Oakland was a great

22:22

city, man, and they embraced that team.

22:24

And you guys know that's not that's

22:26

probably one of the funniest places to play.

22:28

Uh.

22:29

They don't boo you, you know, they

22:31

get you up, support, they support you,

22:33

and that's a lot of teams don't do. That's them in Sacramento

22:36

as well. But man, we had

22:38

some great times and at that time, San Francisco

22:40

was fun. Uh, to hang out and

22:42

do that, and you know we got a history together, yes,

22:45

and so yeah, I mean Oakland was

22:47

great for me.

22:50

Did it bother you when they started abandoning in Oakland

22:52

from professional sports?

22:54

Man? Yeah?

22:54

Because you know even you

22:57

know they have it over in San Francisco, but

22:59

you missed.

23:00

It's not the same.

23:00

Yeah, it's not the same. Right

23:04

there, he is right there. And

23:06

and they really took care of you if you played on that

23:08

team.

23:09

Took care of you, man, love you.

23:11

Theywhere San Francisco,

23:13

I mean San Jose all the way down

23:15

Hayward and you know, they really supported

23:18

the team, and so they

23:20

had a big Latino following.

23:23

Man, that man just just really kind

23:25

of took care of the team and everything.

23:26

But I've seen yeah,

23:29

I've never seen a major city

23:31

lose all of their sports.

23:33

It's everything.

23:35

Sad to go there now, Yeah, it's really sad.

23:38

You peel round.

23:40

That's the first thing you did with you when you got your bread

23:42

NBA read. I can remember my first

23:45

check. I put

23:47

it on my refrigerator.

23:48

How much was if you don't mind to sell, it's.

23:49

About thirty thous yeah, you know, and

23:52

it was my first check and

23:54

it stayed there for a minute until what my boys

23:56

said, Man, are you gonna put that?

23:59

Man? Just gonna look at it?

24:02

Just look at it, man.

24:04

Yeah. And my first thing I did, I bought

24:06

my mom's house. And

24:08

then I waited probably another year OUTI

24:11

I got me something. Another two years, I got me something

24:13

about after my third year. Then I got me

24:15

something. But I got my apartment

24:18

that time. Man, I was living in the hotel at

24:21

Uh.

24:21

What is that Mary right there with

24:24

the practice?

24:26

What's that? Oh? Yeah, I don't know

24:28

what it is now, just like the sweets

24:30

now.

24:30

But yeah, I stayed there for about six months, yeah,

24:33

you know, until they said, man, can.

24:34

You go and get you a spot?

24:36

Took their mom first, took their mom's first,

24:38

stayed there, and I was just hooping.

24:39

Man, it was just going to do. Just enjoyed

24:42

it.

24:42

Just in Jordan.

24:44

Most most guys, even some of the top players,

24:46

they have rookie struggles and they don't come in and get

24:49

straight to averaging big numbers.

24:50

Your rookie year twenty two a game? What

24:52

was that? What was that feeling? Like Nelly?

24:55

Man?

24:56

I mean the way he played, in the style he

24:58

played, he gave me an opportunity. Uh,

25:00

to really kind of showcase my child and my

25:03

talents. And he just let me go and

25:05

we played just like you're saying, how they play

25:07

now. We played

25:09

a motion offense, and at

25:12

times he would come in the locker room and say, listen,

25:14

we're not gonna run any plays unless you

25:17

guys don't play, play amongst each

25:19

other and pass the ball. He

25:21

said, I'm only gonna call plays

25:23

because but we were it was it was

25:25

still a set offense, but

25:28

it was a motion offense, and so he said

25:30

he we were practiced at for days,

25:33

man, and at that time we had, you

25:35

know, thirty days straight of tour

25:37

days.

25:40

It was crazy.

25:40

So we would because we knew we were gonna play Denver

25:43

and dinner in the altitude, you had to be ready

25:45

and they run like this, so he

25:48

would, uh, you know, he would get us prepared,

25:50

man, and we played emotion and we had Chris

25:52

and Tim came a little later, but

25:55

we shared the ball. And that was my pretty

25:57

much my favorite favorite team that I played

26:00

with. It was kind of like you guys, yes, you

26:02

know what I mean. It was that that we believe team

26:04

you know, identical, identical. Man,

26:06

you guys got along. That's why we went

26:09

and got you guys, you know what I mean. That's why

26:11

we went and got you guys, you know, And I got a

26:13

good story about well,

26:16

at the time, we had no knock

26:18

on the other players. But we had Don Levy and Troy

26:20

Murphy. We had fine players,

26:22

but we didn't have we didn't have that, didn't

26:26

have that.

26:29

He came, he came doing that, and

26:32

we didn't have that toughness at the time.

26:34

And and you know, you have some trouble

26:36

over there in Indiana here

26:40

right right here where we are, not too far

26:42

from here.

26:45

You know, you had you had some trouble in Indiana,

26:47

And it was a perfect time. And I was

26:49

working in the front office at the time, a special

26:52

assistant to Chris Mother. And

26:54

uh, it was a great opportunity for us to

26:56

really kind of go after you.

26:57

Then.

26:58

We were going to get you and out our

27:01

our heretage and uh, and we needed

27:04

toughness, man. We felt like we had a lot of talent,

27:06

but nobody was scared of us, you know

27:08

what I mean.

27:09

And so when you had your situation, man, we pursued

27:12

you right away.

27:13

You know, he carry, let's go get him.

27:16

Yeah, yeah, we said, we pursued it right away. I said,

27:19

sometimes you know you need another chain of seeler. Yes

27:21

and what I need and no question.

27:23

And then when you came to Oakland, the city embraced

27:25

you.

27:26

You know what I mean.

27:27

You felt at home, man, You felt at home. The city

27:29

embraced you. We felt like we had

27:32

a three headed monster at that time because

27:34

we had Baron that was, you know, trying to get

27:36

healthy. We had mante Ellis

27:39

coming Guarantee twenty, Guaranteed twenty.

27:42

We had you as well, and we we

27:44

we grabbed Matt and

27:47

Matt h coach

27:49

loved you because we had Rod Higgins

27:51

years before that kind of played

27:54

the four positions that can pull the defense out.

27:57

He remember when you got there, he was like, shoot

27:59

threes. I want you to shoot. That's

28:01

all you were doing in practice degree.

28:02

But before that happened, so I wasn't even

28:04

I got I wasn't late invite to camp. That is,

28:07

fresh out of getting traded to Philly

28:09

with Web and not playing. So I don't know if I'm thinking

28:11

about going to try to play football. And I remember

28:13

Baron called me, He's like, hey, we got to open gym today.

28:16

Come down. I'm at the Crib and Sacramento. So I drive

28:18

down two hours and similar to like

28:20

you said, Nelly was upstairs watching YEP,

28:22

and I played well and he came down. He's like, where are you

28:24

going to camp sun and put his arm around me. I'm

28:27

like, I don't know. You have coach. He's like, well, if you played the way

28:29

you played today, I can't promise, but I'm gonna give

28:31

you a chance. He's like, we have a full roster

28:33

and we have all of our camp invites, but if you come

28:35

and do what you did today, I'll give you a chance. I'm like, shit.

28:38

So I went from the last person

28:40

invited, like I wasn't even invited,

28:42

last person to get in there, beat everyone

28:45

out. And for what I heard that I was playing well

28:47

enough that you felt like you can get rid of and

28:50

Troy and go get some That's what we did.

28:52

Yeah, and that's what we did because you, yeah,

28:54

you wasn't even on the rosters we had to

28:57

make.

28:57

We had to make room for him. But I

29:00

tell you a good story where we were

29:02

playing Houston when that

29:04

we believe team and Jacket

29:06

was your birthday.

29:08

Yeah, we had a red party.

29:09

You had a red party, and so we

29:12

uh. So we win the game,

29:15

remember everybody, god and

29:17

so we uh we played the game,

29:20

had a good game.

29:21

So now, me, Nelly, Chris

29:23

were all sitting in the lobby right

29:25

after the game. We have a good time. We sitting

29:27

in the lobby having to drake. All of a sudden,

29:30

we looked towards the elevator,

29:32

you and the whole.

29:34

Team already all read coming

29:36

out.

29:36

We're like, oh god, no, god, nore

29:39

ain't going where they're going. Man, it's eleven

29:41

thirty.

29:42

What ain't going?

29:43

So you come over, everybody come

29:45

over. You know, that team was so

29:47

well. It was together.

29:48

Man.

29:49

We all felt like a family. But I can remember

29:51

you coming over and we were like, yeah, man, it's my birthday.

29:53

Man, I'm taking all the guys out. Man, we're

29:56

going for my birthday. We're like, okay, okay, cool

29:58

man, just be careful, be careful, care them.

30:00

So you guys start walking away, You

30:03

walk away, you turn around, you come back, and you

30:05

go.

30:05

Hey, and by the way, hey, I got him.

30:08

We're like, oh god, you

30:12

got him.

30:14

You got about all the people like, oh my god,

30:16

please, we ain't gonna get no sleep.

30:19

Came back. Yeah, when you came back and said.

30:22

That was like, oh Lord, help Burst.

30:24

No oh Jack got him. We

30:27

needn't go to sleep that night.

30:29

That team was funny from a standpoint of Nelly

30:31

kind of once Jack infiltrated and got

30:33

in and it's about like this is

30:35

before cannabis was obviously still,

30:38

but Nelly didn't care, Like Nellie's just like whatever

30:41

you guys feel like you need to do to be ready, you

30:43

know what I mean. He would try to hurry up and get our drug tests

30:45

done. We went up to his house and people

30:47

think it was a joke, but it was for real, Like the ship.

30:50

After the playoffs, he told us that Woody

30:52

Harrelson's in the back rolling doubies and go smoke with

30:54

him. I'm just like, this is our head coach talking Nelly.

30:58

Another story. So do we believe team

31:00

be Dallas in the first round? Put

31:03

me, Jack and Bedie on the same floor and

31:05

put the big gym fan at the end of the hallway. Remember

31:07

the biggest Jim fans back

31:09

in the day. Nelly put a gym fan on

31:11

our floor because he knew he was gonna be smoking

31:14

in Utah. But like Nellie was so different,

31:16

Yeah, it was different.

31:18

He believed that you know, like, yeah, no, coach made

31:20

me a captain. As soon as I got there, he

31:22

made me a captain. Like the belief he put

31:24

in you was like yeah.

31:27

Yeah, yeah, that was that was That was really a good

31:29

team. And we would always get calls with you

31:31

guys.

31:31

In the city. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, every

31:34

night in the city.

31:35

We were like, yeah, they're gonna be all right.

31:36

They too, like you said, take

31:38

we didn't have one problem real

31:43

quick since you were in management how close or

31:45

because we've talked to Kevin Garnette about it of

31:48

trying to go out and get the KG situation after

31:50

that, we believe situation was it realtch.

31:52

B It was

31:54

so real. Let

31:56

me say something to you, man, we h.

31:59

I think that was the downfall

32:03

of everything, of everything because

32:06

we had KG, and KG

32:08

wanted to come and

32:10

we're like, man, that's all we need. I mean KG,

32:13

We're gonna keep the core of our guys

32:16

and and we can remember I can remember,

32:19

like we we we talked about it and talked to it and they

32:21

said no, we came to this was

32:23

draft day and I d and I

32:25

and our pick was coming up, and I

32:27

can I can remember, man, it was like we

32:30

had him in our hands, and I think at that time

32:32

of a word about uh a

32:34

contract situation or I have

32:36

to put up like a little bit more money. But we're

32:38

like, listen, we can make that back

32:41

if we get KG. You

32:43

can. You can set ticket

32:45

sales and say hey, five years out,

32:48

you know what I mean? And that bro,

32:50

that was a that was a that was a hard

32:52

one. And that's when that's when he

32:54

went to Boston.

32:55

And then we lost

32:59

Rich branded right from night for

33:01

Jason ri that's right, that's right.

33:03

But we would have got rand the right, we would have got KG.

33:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it

33:08

was.

33:08

It was so real, man, it was so and he wanted

33:11

to come to God, to Stef and how we

33:13

played and how you guys we needed.

33:15

He made his fire with our.

33:17

Burners exactly exactly,

33:20

which with.

33:21

Yeah, because you know we always burned out the whole

33:24

team.

33:25

We talked You just mentioned Chris Mullen when

33:27

we was playing, like we talked about y'all used to y'all was

33:29

still playing, that's right, and we used to see him shoot

33:32

all the time.

33:32

How good was Chris Mullen? Chris was awesome,

33:34

man.

33:34

I mean he definitely helped my game by

33:37

coming there because his work ethic.

33:39

You know, I thought I worked, but

33:42

I wasn't working on the aspect of

33:44

my game.

33:44

Well what he was doing he was shooting

33:46

constantly.

33:47

Man, So we started shooting six hundred

33:49

seven hundred shots a day. And we

33:52

wouldn't just take six hundred seven. We were

33:54

makes, yeah, make six hundred and seven.

33:56

At that time, we had Mark Rabow who

33:59

was one of the strengths and conditioning coaches,

34:01

and g that's right. It would

34:03

be me, me and him and

34:05

Rod Higgins and man, we would

34:07

shoot all summer. I mean shoot, shoot,

34:09

shoot, And he definitely that's why

34:11

I became a shooter, because you know, I would work

34:13

with him.

34:14

So now I'm just let me go off Rod

34:17

Higgins. Yes, now I see how

34:19

I got to Charlotte. Yes, yes,

34:23

Okay, that's why the trade happened

34:25

so easy, exactly.

34:26

Okay, we left, I

34:28

mean he left us, and that was then

34:30

again I'm saying that was the our downfall

34:33

for everything, for everything, losing Rod

34:35

didn't get the KG thing, and it was

34:37

just it's just kind of kind

34:39

of pop from there. But yeah, ro

34:42

Rod loved you, so Rob was a big part.

34:44

Of you going to over there.

34:45

Yeah, and that was my best year after that. Yeah,

34:48

Charlotte talk about run TMC.

34:50

How y'all took over the culture.

34:52

But how was that and how did the name come

34:54

about? Being rock star?

34:55

Yeah, we we were trying to find a name.

34:57

I think we did a uh they did

34:59

a uh silence

35:01

something with the fans uh.

35:03

And then they just told the fans just sending

35:06

names.

35:07

Uh.

35:07

And and a team and a guy came up

35:09

with the run TMC name like the run

35:11

DMC. Yeah and

35:13

uh and from there, man, it was history. It

35:15

really matched up what we were doing.

35:18

And at that time, you know, Tim

35:20

Hardaway, man, he

35:23

was tough to deal with, you know what I mean, And

35:25

he was a he was a willing passer.

35:28

So only thing we wanted to do just run the floor.

35:30

He'll get it to you.

35:31

So we just start really having

35:34

a great time playing that fast pace

35:37

and we just we just needed.

35:38

A couple more pieces.

35:39

Man.

35:40

We felt like we could have been there. And you know now,

35:42

just like go to State with Clay

35:44

and Curry. They kept that unit

35:46

together. Yeah, And anytime someone keeps

35:49

the unit together and then build around

35:51

it, your team is going to get better. But

35:53

when you're trying to mess with the core of

35:55

the guys, You're still gonna be a hit and miss.

35:58

I think that was My next question was

36:01

short lived?

36:02

Yeah, man, well listen

36:04

now, Nelly, I love you to death.

36:07

And he knows he crazy to Yeah,

36:09

no question, you know what I mean.

36:11

And at that time, Nelly was the general

36:13

manager, and he was the coach,

36:16

and and and he and he drank a lot.

36:20

So I think at that time.

36:23

You know, you know,

36:25

it didn't just happened with me, It also happened with Webb.

36:28

I think, you know, he was just trying to mix

36:30

and match a little too much. And

36:32

uh, that was that was heartbreaking because

36:35

that team was such a

36:37

a family oriented team and

36:39

to leave there, yeah,

36:41

that was tough. So I think it was so short

36:43

lived. But I but I wish we would have played together longer.

36:46

That was a great Nelly was the type of dude that to

36:48

build a house and burn them the

36:50

same day got the match. Now, Yeah,

36:53

people love you.

36:57

He used to come to practice in the morning with us when

36:59

we were playing with either like a beer and his dog

37:02

or coffee cup. But that who don't ain't

37:04

no telling. They might be crowning the coffee call. It's

37:06

the dog name old a little

37:08

dog. He always had the little dog with.

37:10

Oh all right, listen, we

37:12

got practice on one side on the corn.

37:15

Come on, that's a dog, bro,

37:18

you can't do to play on both sides.

37:21

I remember we played up, we played

37:24

Seattle, and that's

37:26

at the time of olden polonies.

37:29

It's kind of like a bruiser and

37:31

he was beating up on all of us, all all of all

37:33

the big men and uh.

37:35

And I remember Nellie Nelly put in the guy.

37:38

Uh.

37:38

He didn't play that much.

37:39

He put him in and say, hey, I want you

37:41

to file out,

37:44

file.

37:44

And hit op every time.

37:47

Call him.

37:48

Guy went in there and didn't file op, not one

37:50

time. And I'm like, oh god, oh he in

37:53

trouble, Oh he in trouble. We

37:55

were after the game. My

37:57

man said, man, I ain't gonna never ask you to do

37:59

nothing. And I'm like, oh, ship. Next

38:02

day when we lose up

38:04

Nelly used to run.

38:05

His shut out.

38:06

So we get back to Uh, we

38:08

get back to Oakland and you know how

38:10

you would like, the starters will play thirty

38:12

forty minutes and you sit on now. He

38:15

said, don't nobody go to the locker room. So we got

38:17

our ice bags, you know, watching

38:20

the practice. He tell the guy, Okay,

38:22

let's go. He ran up for about forty five minutes.

38:25

He ran a forty five minutes. Were like, oh my god,

38:27

man. And then at the end he called

38:29

everybody and they said, hey man, everybody say goodbye

38:32

to him. He cut him after that cut him,

38:34

after that roam.

38:35

Yeah, he was like, oh my lob

38:37

boy, you didn't mess with Delly. Man had one job.

38:40

Yeah, that file and

38:42

with Nelly. You're walking in the locker room somebody be

38:44

gone for you don't even know. It's just he

38:46

hadn't done it, but I just seen it. Yeah he's gone,

38:49

He's gone.

38:49

Yeah, it was. It was ruthless. You still got

38:51

a relationship with Nelly and money.

38:54

Uh you talked to me. I talked to Molly

38:56

yesterday. Yeah, we still talk

38:58

everyone while Nellie.

39:00

I mean, I have so much respectful

39:02

because I thought he was the best coach

39:05

I ever had, you know what I mean? And

39:07

and also I want to choke him.

39:09

Yeah, you know what I mean, no question, but it

39:11

for trading me. So so I didn't

39:13

speak to him a long time when he traded me.

39:16

But I do respect him as a coach. To respect

39:18

him as a basketball mind. But

39:21

yeah, that was a tough time.

39:22

We're trying to get down there to see him and check up

39:24

on him. Yeah.

39:25

Yeah, I mean when we see each other,

39:27

we still talk.

39:29

The love is there, you know what I mean, especially

39:31

now, Man, you got to get over a lot of little

39:34

things and keep it moving.

39:35

But it was tough.

39:37

You mentioned the devastation, you know, going

39:39

a little up I a to Sacramento. First

39:43

thing you heard from your team that's was welcome to Hell. Yes,

39:46

but urban legend or truth? Did you commute?

39:49

Did you keep a crib in the Bay and just commuted the

39:51

act?

39:52

I had just bought my house in Alameda.

39:55

Nice over there, Yeah, beautiful un

39:57

the Bay. And I got traded

40:00

at the Sacramento and I said,

40:02

man, I'm not I'm not moving the sack. I

40:04

really felt I was still

40:06

connected to that team, you know what I mean. And anytime

40:09

they had uh

40:11

parties at the house, I was still

40:14

there.

40:14

I was still there, you know what I mean. I would go to their thing.

40:17

And so yeah, I commuted for like the

40:19

first maybe two years,

40:21

just going back and forth, get a hotel room

40:24

and uh.

40:24

But I lived in Oakland the

40:28

first two and a half years I was playing.

40:31

I lived in Oakland.

40:32

Who was the coaching sack when you first went, h what

40:35

is the name.

40:36

Coach at Uh? Jerry

40:38

Renal No, no, no, Jerry was the

40:40

gym at the time. He had moved up.

40:43

Uh.

40:43

It was a guy from Dallas, the older player.

40:45

Uh.

40:47

Man, I can't even think of names. I wanted to choke him

40:49

to.

40:50

Uh

40:52

yeah yeah, uh yeah.

40:54

He was a Dallas He had the good, the

40:56

great, the older player.

40:57

He'll come to the older No, Garret say,

41:00

he was about my man, that's that's my guy.

41:02

But before him, I can't think of.

41:04

Dick Mod, Dick mad

41:07

Yeah, Dick.

41:09

You wasn't rocking with him. You didn't rock

41:11

with Dick. I

41:15

think it was just I think at that time it

41:17

was just tough. Man.

41:19

No, it was just tough at that time because I

41:22

came from Golden State and uh,

41:24

you know, it was probably at the end his career.

41:26

Next time, yeah, it was probably at.

41:27

The end of his career. And at

41:29

that time, it's just the styles. It

41:32

wasn't the same. He wanted a more slow

41:34

down pace. We didn't have the talent to

41:36

play in the East, I mean in the West at that time.

41:39

At the slow down pace at the time, West was very

41:41

physical.

41:42

Did he coach a long time because

41:45

I never heard it.

41:45

No, no, no, no, Well he had agreed

41:48

had coached, Yeah he had, but

41:52

Sacramento he didn't.

41:53

What was your first year in SEC What year was that?

41:54

That was ninety three?

41:56

I think it was so five straight

41:58

all NBA teams when you

42:00

got to sack. Yeah, ninety three to ninety eight average

42:03

twenty three year game over that stretch forty percent

42:05

from the field. I've known you for a long time and obviously

42:08

you know you're not a conceited person at all. But where

42:10

did you put yourself in the hierarchy of two

42:12

guards at that time when you were at the top of your game,

42:15

right behind Mike.

42:16

I'm not saying because if you because you talked that shit

42:18

does yeah, you know it doesn't.

42:20

We get the best with yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

42:22

no, no doubt.

42:23

I mean I felt like I was there, you know,

42:25

I felt like I played both hands then

42:29

and so for my whole career playing

42:31

basketball, I've always won every

42:34

team that I've been on. So born

42:36

to Sacramento at the time and having and

42:39

at the top of the top, you know, playing

42:41

in the NBA and not have a six

42:43

team success was very

42:45

difficult and you really

42:47

kind of understand you need players with you

42:49

absolutely and not saying that we didn't

42:51

have any player. We had young guys at

42:54

that time, and back then we were playing against

42:56

grown.

42:56

Men who were some of the guys on the squad.

42:58

Back Lionel Simmons.

43:01

Had Walk Williams.

43:05

Uh.

43:06

Yeah, we had Brian Grant, Michael

43:09

but and that's.

43:09

When Michael Michael Smith. Yeah, that's when

43:11

the team started getting better. When we when we drafted

43:13

Brian Grant, Michael

43:16

Smith. We got o p from

43:19

from Detroit at the time, and.

43:21

I had been wanting to play with what

43:24

was that Pagia, but Paige.

43:26

Was overseas and

43:28

and and our team, you know, we had

43:31

to pay to get in. So we

43:33

had drafted him three four years and

43:35

I was waiting to pay play with him, but we

43:38

couldn't get him over there to play.

43:39

So but we at the time, we.

43:41

Got better, We got better, we got better, but

43:44

we had we had some good young players.

43:46

We just wasn't ready for the league at the time because

43:48

it was grown man. Obviously,

43:51

this is before player empowerment

43:53

and and and guys could really even say anything

43:55

about the situation. You just had to play it out. Talks

43:58

about I want to get out, or you talk

44:01

to management about it.

44:02

Yeah, I would talk to management, but quietly,

44:06

you know, just give me an opportunity to go somewhere

44:08

else. And they just kept telling me, just

44:10

wait, just wait, just wait, we're

44:12

gonna take care of you. We're gonna take care of you. You stay,

44:15

You're gonna be a king forever, and and

44:18

just kept waiting around and then they didn't want to take care of it.

44:21

So so it was tough. It was

44:23

tough.

44:23

Yeah, ninety five All Star

44:26

Game MVP talked to us

44:28

about that day.

44:28

In that game, Oh, man,

44:31

I was feeling it. Yeah,

44:35

I was feeling it.

44:36

And I say, man, every time I touch it,

44:38

I'm gonna look at.

44:40

That basket, you know what

44:42

I mean. And Gary was feeding me. And Gary

44:44

had a pretty good game.

44:45

That guy.

44:45

He had like twelve thirteen cents at that time. But

44:48

yeah, yeah, it

44:50

worked out for me. The guys was looking for him, and I think

44:52

I went like ten for twelve.

44:54

For the game. What did you finish twenty twenty three?

44:57

Three?

44:58

Yeah, that's all you need game? Uh,

45:00

yeah, it wasn't. No forty fifties like

45:02

they're doing that.

45:03

But yeah, those are those All Star games

45:05

were like real. You guys really played. Yeah you played a little

45:07

bit. Yeah you played, especially in the fourth

45:09

quarters. Yeah, no question about it, no

45:12

question about it. Yeah.

45:14

Ended up in Washington after second spent three years

45:16

there with Ra Strickland, Juan Howard, Ben

45:18

Wallace.

45:19

Right now, that's a solid team. Yes,

45:21

why didn't it work? Man?

45:24

I think sometimes those names when

45:26

you hear those names, when you look at that stat

45:28

sheet, no questions.

45:30

Yeah, Eddie Jordan's cool,

45:32

last Eddie George.

45:34

We're more on your homeboy than your man.

45:37

Yeah.

45:38

Yeah, yeah, you welcome, You're on paper.

45:40

We were great, you know what I mean. And I think

45:43

at that time, you know it's

45:45

from the top o down. Yeah, in

45:47

the organization was was not on

45:49

the same page at that time. And uh

45:52

but to this day, to this day, yeah,

45:54

and then they having trouble over there. And that's one

45:56

city, will boo you. The

46:00

Chocolate City is the one city that I think

46:03

I had so much uh road

46:05

rage and anger. Yeah, because

46:08

you would go out in d C. And every

46:10

dude think they can hoop, every

46:13

dude think they better than you know, you would

46:15

have arguments down like, man, yeah,

46:17

Bush, you do that. Everywhere

46:20

you went in d C. Everybody thought that they can hoop.

46:23

Everybody thought they could play for the Wizards. You know

46:25

what I mean, everybody have thought they could play for

46:27

the Wizards. Man, everywhere you went.

46:29

If it wasn't for my tender a c. You

46:31

know, everybody, everybody could

46:41

last stop Lakers O two. Uh

46:43

you know O G in the game you get

46:45

a chance to win a ring there. Uh in

46:48

the midst of that shock and Kobe ninasty

46:50

run. What what did you see between them and Phil

46:53

and just that organization on your

46:55

way out? Phil was very calm

46:59

and uh.

46:59

They had won the championship two years before

47:02

I got there, and I felt like my time

47:04

was, you know, getting getting to an end.

47:07

Had an opportunity, uh to go to San

47:09

Antonio Dallas. Nelly

47:11

was trying to get me back to go to Dallas

47:14

at the time, and I said, hey, man, I'm

47:16

gonna go to l A.

47:17

You know what I mean.

47:18

They don't wanted to in a year to two years

47:20

in a row.

47:21

Yeah, And and J. L.

47:22

Righter was there year before, so I was replacing

47:25

him.

47:26

And uh, yeah, I've just you know, decided

47:28

that I was going to go to the Lakers, and Kobe

47:30

and Shaq relationship was great. I mean,

47:32

that team was That was another team

47:35

that was really kind of they didn't hang

47:37

out, but you know, they had the

47:39

respect.

47:40

Uh you know each other on the court. But

47:44

it was a good time, no question.

47:46

Phil was one of the best coaches to

47:48

really kind of keep your paw, your pause,

47:51

I mean, your poise and

47:53

uh and uh yeah,

47:56

let's just keep you you know, confident

48:00

and trying to work out situations on your own.

48:02

He always tried to have those teams.

48:04

You figure you know. Yeah, me and my man

48:06

was that.

48:08

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you was gonna kill him, Yeah

48:10

yeah, you was gonna kill him, yeah yeah, yeah,

48:15

exactly, yeah.

48:19

Yeah, we all wanted to kill him, you know what I mean. But

48:22

at that time, I think, you.

48:23

Know, for me, you were a younger player at the time

48:25

and I had got a little older, and so for

48:27

me, it kind of helped me because

48:30

when I was on top, I had players

48:33

behind me that really supported

48:35

me, you know what I mean, And I was like, this

48:37

is the time for me to support the team. My

48:40

time has passed, and so

48:42

let me kind of support the team and then just go

48:45

along.

48:45

For the ride. Man.

48:46

So I felt like I could have done more, but

48:49

you know, hey, that was that was up to them. But you

48:51

know, I enjoyed the team.

48:53

And two thousand and two, Yeah, I

48:55

was in San Antonio, Yeah, and it was that

48:57

was bringing any the US Steve Smith.

48:59

And I was back.

49:00

Yeah, and I was gonna go to Sanatoya

49:03

the Lakers.

49:04

Yeah, yeah, but I decided

49:06

man, and just yeah, what

49:09

did you see in Cod at that time?

49:11

Hungry man? Yeah, man, just like

49:14

you know, and they talk about the face. The

49:16

same thing with Mike, you know, and especially

49:19

the best scores.

49:20

Like.

49:22

They wanted the ball so bad, like

49:24

it was I just had to have it, like

49:27

anything I needed to do to get it. And he would

49:30

he would fight his butt off to try to get it. And

49:33

you know the triangle we were run the triangle.

49:35

He knew ways to get the especially

49:40

when and if you really didn't

49:42

know what it was.

49:46

Oh, he would mess up to He'll

49:49

have that ball on the right side and you

49:51

know, Shot could come over and he wanted

49:53

to get on that block and he'll look

49:55

and he'll pump fake there, throw it over there.

49:57

Run It's like

50:00

to that angle. So what she He

50:02

knew all the little duances of the

50:04

thing.

50:05

But he was Uh, he was great. The one thing

50:07

you know you respected about him, he

50:09

did it in practice, you know what I

50:11

mean. And he did it before anybody got

50:13

there. He was the first one there working

50:16

on this game. If anybody did a move on

50:18

him, he was working on it. He

50:20

was working on her that day. So uh yeah,

50:23

yeah he was cool.

50:24

Man.

50:24

We had a great relationship and it was cool.

50:26

Ones.

50:28

No, we never did on one of one was then in my career, I

50:30

wasn't doing all.

50:34

Yeah, icy my deeds, you

50:37

know what I mean.

50:38

Your relationship with Nike a ba A

50:40

tempo to sixteen, you talk about your

50:42

relationship with man.

50:45

Yeah, I came in with uh wearing

50:47

Adidas.

50:48

Uh, everybody did. Yeah.

50:50

I wanted to go to Nike and uh

50:52

but the deal didn't work out at that time.

50:55

And then I was at a didas I think for my

50:57

first two years and then

50:59

then with Nike.

51:01

But everybody want to Nikes.

51:02

Everybody was one of a lot of everybody. Then

51:05

did they go back to that last picture. Yeah. Yeah.

51:08

They used to take care of me, man, They just used

51:11

to take care of me. I had some nice and

51:13

I don't even know the names or the shoes. Everybody

51:16

like, man with them shoes.

51:17

I said, Man, I.

51:17

Don't even know the name Aaron Bacon. Yeah, I don't

51:20

even know up tempos. Yeah

51:22

them was hard. And then I went to Georgia.

51:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're still in the Jordan family.

51:27

Every once in a while I got to call them now, Man, SI

51:30

me.

51:30

A box who He

51:32

sounded like, yeah, sound

51:35

like a box Man. That Box used to cup all the

51:37

time about every two months. Yeah, yeah.

51:40

Box Bro obviously recognized

51:43

as a Hall of Famer in twenty fourteen.

51:45

But the transition sometimes it's tough. What was your

51:47

transition like from Okay, I'm done

51:50

to what's next? Or time down

51:52

or family like, what was your transition?

51:54

I think it was easier for me because

51:57

my years in Washington.

52:01

Golden State had pursued

52:03

me to come and play before I went to the Lakers,

52:06

and I wanted to work in the front office, and

52:08

so they was at that time Gary Saint

52:10

Jean was there and we were going to try to

52:12

work out like a seven or eight year deal where

52:15

I play and then move into.

52:17

The front office.

52:19

And I just felt at that time, I was like well,

52:21

I want to get I want to maximize

52:24

my money as while I'm

52:27

playing, because it wasn't a big deal

52:29

doing that eight year deal, so I said,

52:32

let me play, and I still want to come and work

52:34

for you. So once I once

52:36

I retired, I took off probably about

52:38

a year, and then I started going to start working

52:40

for Golden State and worked

52:42

for Golden State for a while and that's when we you know,

52:45

we got you guys over there.

52:47

But but yeah, it was it was an easy transition

52:49

for me, I think, but because I still was around

52:52

it but wasn't doing all of the traveling.

52:55

So it kind of implemented me a little

52:57

bit where I can, you know, be with my kids and

53:00

be at some some basketball games and

53:02

do a lot of little stuff like that.

53:04

So it was pretty cool.

53:05

People don't understand one ship towards

53:08

the end of your career. The worst part of it is the traveling. No

53:10

question, you're missing so much or you're

53:12

always traveling like that was the reason

53:14

after in Golden State when I won that last year, I

53:16

don't want to travel. I was missing so much time with my kids.

53:19

People understand that, yeah, you travel so

53:21

much.

53:21

You don't even know until you sit down and

53:24

I can remember how you know, we used to travel great.

53:26

All of a sudden when you become a citizen

53:29

man, you gotta go through.

53:30

The a.

53:33

What's going on? You can't random

53:37

I gotta take my shoes off. That's

53:39

the one thing about Jack too. Jack's bag on every

53:42

Golden State PLAYE made stunk the whole plane.

53:44

And I didn't remember when we used to go to Canada.

53:46

The whole team go there and I'm still sitting in customs

53:48

by three hours. They going through all my stuff,

53:51

tooth, breast, too paste, everything, like, bro, it.

53:54

Ain't that bad. I ain't killing nobody doing

53:56

that. I ain't. I just gotta be a little stuff with it.

53:59

You know, we like as players. We know there's

54:02

certain players doing your NBA career that

54:04

those guys that everybody cool with that you know, like

54:07

doing our career, he gonna be working, You're

54:09

gonna be working for an organizations. It was one of those

54:11

guys that everybody everybody liked, everybody

54:13

cool with. I think he's gonna be working for a team with

54:16

his career.

54:17

Like you're the type of person helped bridge gaps. You

54:19

still spoke our lingo, but then you could also speak

54:21

the office level at the time. And that's

54:23

important too, because not a lot of organizations

54:26

have that are understanding the importance of

54:28

that. It's always kind of like a talk down situation.

54:30

But when you have a mitch there that can translate

54:33

on a player's mind what we're trying to get

54:35

to on a higher level, that shit goes. No,

54:37

it was.

54:38

It was special, man, because I would I love to be

54:40

around you guys, because I would come down all the time at

54:42

the practice. Yeah, I remember Jack asked

54:44

me came down to one person,

54:46

you know, man, because I think at the time somebody

54:49

was telling you that that they got you, like

54:52

man who traded for me.

54:53

I'm like, come on, Jack, we

54:55

ain't gonna do that. A doing that man, come on,

54:57

man, you know who.

54:58

Got you know? Yeah, exact, let me go

55:00

back. We know he took credit, but we know you,

55:03

bro. I was scared

55:05

to make that deal. We're like, man, come on, we.

55:07

Need some fire man. Yeah, yeah,

55:10

yeah, I'm bad. I'm glad we had you in

55:12

Christian office. Yeah, somebody with some

55:14

experience.

55:14

Exactly. When you sit back, now

55:17

that's a Hall of famer and the accolade

55:20

you have, like what comes to mind about your career.

55:23

What's so dag quick fast right? Fourteen

55:26

years fourteen fourteen years? And

55:28

if I look back, man, I retired twenty

55:30

two years ago. That's

55:33

crazy. I just can't fathom

55:35

it.

55:36

I know.

55:36

Sometimes I wake up and be like, man, I got to go to a

55:38

game, you know what I mean? I got a gain to night,

55:41

like, then my legs feel up. That's

55:44

a lot.

55:45

Then you're trying to put it. That's a lot. That first

55:47

step out of bed. Yeah, oh no, that's not

55:49

true. That's a lot, man,

55:52

Nobody calling me whatever.

55:55

Who do you feel in this current game right

55:58

now is let's take Lebron out the pitch because

56:00

he's almost done. Who do you feel is you know, best

56:02

player, top two players in the game right now?

56:04

Oh man, it's such a hard

56:07

question because you know, you got so many great

56:09

players. I love Kevin Durant. I

56:11

love what he I mean, he's one

56:14

of those scores. He's like Iceman, like

56:16

he can score from all across the court.

56:19

He does it in so many ways.

56:22

You know, we got to talk about Curry like

56:24

he's one of one, you know, And

56:28

I tell people all the time.

56:29

Curry is the the best

56:33

worst shot taker in the world.

56:36

He makes them.

56:38

And when you see him take shots, now you

56:40

don't think you're like, oh man, that's a bad shot, Like,

56:42

man, is that going to go in?

56:45

You know what I mean.

56:45

So that takes practice

56:48

and and coaching. I coached

56:50

at Saint John's coaching the younger players.

56:52

They don't understand that. They just think Curry

56:54

just stepped out too. And I can do it

56:56

too, and think about it. He's he

56:59

doesn't look like he's that strong. Shoot

57:01

that way we were. Some people have to throw

57:03

that shot, and for him to make that look

57:06

like a shot is very remarkable.

57:08

And then you got some young players coming with

57:11

the young fello out at ok Se man

57:14

that's.

57:14

Doing his thing. You know, I like me in Minnesota.

57:16

I like Booker. I love Anthony

57:19

Edwards.

57:19

Yes, I love his wag, what

57:22

he stands for, and he's continued

57:24

to I saw him as a sophomore in high school

57:27

and I was like, WHOA.

57:29

Back then I thought he was gonna be nice.

57:32

Uh.

57:32

But yeah, it's so many great players, man,

57:34

a lot of time, a lot of talent that I like

57:37

to watch, uh and see guys.

57:39

I think to speak to your point with Steph my

57:42

founder year there I used

57:44

to really enjoy sitting and watching

57:46

him and KD shoot after practice because everything

57:48

that everyone thinks is a bad shot or might be luck, they

57:51

work on it. That's right, the off balance, the

57:53

off hand, all the deep one footed

57:55

falling out of bounds, like they train and shoot

57:58

those shots on daily, every single

58:00

day. I was there him and Katie after practice on the same

58:02

court working on this stuff. You would see

58:04

a six three dude doing it, and you would see a seven foot

58:06

doing the same ship.

58:08

And you you got to give, you know,

58:10

Clay his respect.

58:14

Three shots out of one hundred, Claire

58:16

shoot a hundred shots after practice, miss two or three.

58:18

Miss two or three? Man,

58:22

I mean he's handling it with grace.

58:24

I know.

58:24

It's just like any player when you when you get to

58:26

a point where they you know, they put you on

58:28

the bench. I think the organization is

58:31

really trying to find out find

58:34

a way to make sure that they don't disrespect

58:36

him anyway. But

58:38

I think, you know, he had a good game the other night. For

58:42

me, I always said, I think, I

58:45

think what what would help him?

58:46

Man?

58:47

And I love him to death.

58:48

I think you know, getting some inside

58:50

shots, you know what I mean, and not you

58:53

know, relying on all just the three point shot

58:56

I think will help him. But but I love

58:58

clay Man. One of the guys that I

59:01

remember, Mark jacksonally said it years ago

59:03

that they were the best two shooters that he and we

59:05

were like, man, come on, man, you talk

59:07

about and now you see it.

59:10

That's true.

59:10

And and Mark made that statement when it when

59:13

it was a popular when yeah the baby,

59:15

and I agree with him, best two

59:17

shooters.

59:18

Who did Money bring Rico

59:20

and you to Saint Jones when he was there? No,

59:23

Rico was there before. Yeah,

59:27

yeah, I

59:30

was saying something about going back with Money out there.

59:32

Yeah he was.

59:33

I think they had talked about it, yea at one point in time,

59:35

but didn't. It didn't work out.

59:37

Rico understand

59:41

his his knowledge of the game and been around

59:43

the game and the way people gravitate to him and respect

59:46

him because I feel like mentioned you know, because you've been around the game.

59:48

To me, these days, it's less about X and Os.

59:50

It's more about relating to the players question. And

59:53

you get these players to believe in the ultimate team

59:55

goal. And Ricos up one of the best in

59:57

the world and doing that.

59:58

And we were the one who was the first one

1:00:00

who hired Rico.

1:00:01

You know, we were the first one who's hired Rico at

1:00:04

Golden State because we saw that, you

1:00:06

know what I mean, he had a great relationship with with Ball

1:00:09

and all you guys, and he was

1:00:11

working our players way then. So you know,

1:00:14

we we feel good about that. We gave him the start. Yeah

1:00:22

last night, happy birthday, said nothing

1:00:24

about us.

1:00:25

Yeah, well, Mitch, we appreciate you. This is the last

1:00:27

home stretch now, so the first thing to come to mind, let

1:00:29

us know we got start you off with a tough one.

1:00:31

Okay, top five shooting guards of all

1:00:34

time, man, and you better be in there,

1:00:36

in.

1:00:36

There, no question about that, no

1:00:39

question.

1:00:40

M j Uh. What

1:00:43

else you got?

1:00:44

You got Kobe, no question, you

1:00:46

got d Wade. Uh,

1:00:49

you got me and Clyde.

1:00:52

There you go put in there?

1:00:54

Yeah yeah,

1:00:57

yeah, I mean I mean.

1:00:59

You gave.

1:01:02

Because well I put it this way. Usually

1:01:05

they would have me out of there. They have Reggie in there,

1:01:07

So I put.

1:01:07

Myself in there. So since went in down

1:01:09

and just give us your pin on. Regie Miller. Tough

1:01:12

man. He was a tough, tough player.

1:01:15

He was different from any other guy

1:01:17

because you couldn't give him space

1:01:20

and he was a dead eye shooter. Uh,

1:01:23

and so he would run you around so many screens.

1:01:25

I can remember the first time I played Reggie. I

1:01:28

don't know, he wouldn't cut his nails.

1:01:30

Or something like Hamton. Yeah, he

1:01:32

said.

1:01:33

He scratched me up so bad the first time I

1:01:35

played. And then I remember I say Reggie.

1:01:38

I ain't say Reggie to him, but I said to myself,

1:01:40

I'm not gonna cut my nails next time.

1:01:44

Yeah, I'm going to do the same thing, you

1:01:46

know what I mean.

1:01:47

Scratch me like that.

1:01:48

I bruise easy, you know what I mean.

1:01:51

So I had to make sure I cut

1:01:54

my name. Yeah.

1:01:56

But Reggie Richard is a good friend too, great

1:01:58

player. We played on the lip team together,

1:02:00

had some great battles, uh, but got.

1:02:03

A lot of respect. Childhood crush,

1:02:06

childhood crush.

1:02:09

Jenny Jackson. Man,

1:02:11

remember Jenny j Janney Jackson

1:02:14

came to Lottter Hill Mall. She

1:02:16

came to Lotdter Hill Mall, fl lot

1:02:19

of their floor.

1:02:19

How old were you, man?

1:02:21

I don't know, I can't remember, man. I know she was

1:02:23

looking at me.

1:02:29

That was that was flat top to Yeah.

1:02:33

I had some ways waves back then. Okay,

1:02:36

I ain't get the curl until I got.

1:02:40

I know she was looking at that eye

1:02:42

cunt.

1:02:42

That's good, that's funny. The

1:02:44

next question is best basketball shoot. But you said

1:02:46

you didn't really pay attention to sh I'm a flipping I'm a flippant.

1:02:49

Okay, what's your what's your one album

1:02:51

that you could play from front to back?

1:02:53

Oh man, let's

1:02:55

see definitely the run DMC

1:02:58

album. Uh it was so at

1:03:00

that time. Let's see l

1:03:02

L cool J. I keep going

1:03:04

back to him, but no, l L was nice,

1:03:07

Uh cool.

1:03:08

Mo d its tough d

1:03:12

West Yeah, come on man, yeah

1:03:14

yeah, and we all played uh n.

1:03:17

W A, I'm back and forth. You know.

1:03:19

I love when B d K and L L was going. Oh

1:03:22

yeah right

1:03:24

there, Yeah that was good.

1:03:26

Most underrated player of your generation. Underrated

1:03:29

player me

1:03:33

say that? Yeah yeah yeah,

1:03:36

we guilty

1:03:41

pleasure.

1:03:43

Oh man, you should love

1:03:45

an La ice cream. I don't

1:03:47

eat that dumb more. I'm a plat based Yeah

1:03:50

yeah, yeah that I went plant based by eight

1:03:52

years ago. I love it, man, now, I love it.

1:03:54

You can feel it.

1:03:55

I can feel it, man, And no joys hurt

1:03:57

look good?

1:03:59

Nothing?

1:04:00

Yeah, bro, I eat a lot

1:04:02

though, but just you know just

1:04:04

working out, so

1:04:07

you don't.

1:04:07

Want none of that good old soul food back there.

1:04:09

I love that.

1:04:11

I wish I could.

1:04:13

I know you guys have a good time over there.

1:04:15

Yeah, I got a little salad question.

1:04:19

It's hard to get some plant based food in Indiana.

1:04:23

And too many plants out here.

1:04:24

Yeah, I ain't eat nothing, but hummus.

1:04:28

I love is

1:04:31

good. One

1:04:33

thing you wish you were better at?

1:04:35

One thing I wish I was better at mm

1:04:38

hmm. I was

1:04:40

saying that if I didn't play ball, I was

1:04:42

gonna be a singer. Everybody so

1:04:45

if at R and b RB,

1:04:50

Yeah, I wish I was a better singer because I'm really

1:04:52

good in the shower.

1:04:54

Everybody is. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

1:04:56

Yeah, if

1:04:59

you could see one game us on our show, who

1:05:01

would it be? But but you

1:05:03

have to help us get your answer on the show. I

1:05:06

have to get by it.

1:05:06

What you have to help us get the answer. So somebody

1:05:09

you know, okay, somebody okay, haven't

1:05:11

been on here that you know real well been on here.

1:05:15

Let's see what would that be?

1:05:18

Man, Molly, tim there's a

1:05:20

few yeah, my guys yet

1:05:23

and I just seen him in the airport.

1:05:25

What oh no, got his number two. You got

1:05:27

to get Tim Buggs. I

1:05:30

would help with that.

1:05:32

I would help money. Yeah, yeah,

1:05:35

yeah, you got some stories to Mully,

1:05:39

got some story mitch Man. We appreciate your time,

1:05:42

thank you for coming through and obviously, like I

1:05:44

said, with always a lot of respect for your game

1:05:46

and we're you know, the real ones. Know. I

1:05:49

appreciate you, Bro, appreciate you, Miss

1:05:53

Rinchman.