0:00

Dystopia is all around 'The. Starting.

0:02

We don't know what we're saying as a virus. It's a

0:04

kind of parasite. Well, on our screens at

0:06

least, you know the plotline, survivors

0:08

of an earth shattering catastrophe,

0:11

'The empty cities in search of food

0:13

or shelter? Who's

0:14

the rest of us? What are the only ones

0:16

you 'The it so far?

0:17

Or they hatch plans to save the world.

0:20

I can save you. I I can save

0:22

you. You are sick and I can help you.

0:24

There's probably a zombie by.

0:27

Were you bitten? Did any

0:29

of the blood get in your mouth? It begs

0:31

the question. What new is there to

0:33

say? It's question that faced the creators

0:35

of the last of us, the wildly popular

0:38

new HBO show, that ticks every

0:40

single one of the boxes I just 'The, And

0:42

it's also a question that NPRs, Glyn,

0:44

Weldon, and Eric Higgins have been pondering. What

0:47

makes this dystopian plot line

0:49

shine? And they are with me now

0:51

for this week's installment of the take.

0:53

Hi, guys. Hey, are you

0:54

there? Alright. Before we get going,

0:56

just to catch people up on the plot here. No

0:58

spoilers, please. It is twenty years

1:01

after a fungus is spread through population

1:03

turning people into zombies and there's

1:05

a girl who might hold the key to immunity

1:07

and she need to take a journey. There's a grizzled

1:10

man who begrudgingly agrees to

1:12

protect her along the way. We were gonna move Ellie

1:14

out of the zone tonight, but we won't make

1:16

it anywhere like this, not for a while anyway. So

1:18

now I'm thinking,

1:21

you're gonna

1:21

do it. If I don't 'The

1:22

them. Let me take our because we

1:24

don't have time for this.

1:25

You don't have time? Who is she? To you? She's

1:27

conquer. We don't Pretty

1:28

straightforward. I've gotta say so. What

1:30

makes this different?

1:31

Well, I love about the last of

1:33

us is that it seems to have learned from

1:36

all the other zombie movies and TV shows

1:38

that we've had, particularly the

1:40

Walking Dead. So one of things

1:42

that it does, that I think the Walking Dead

1:44

also does, is that the zombies

1:46

are almost like a natural disaster.

1:49

They don't focus on the zombies quite

1:51

that much. They tell you what you need to

1:53

know about how this fungus works

1:55

and and why the zombies are the way they

1:57

are. But once the story gets going, that's

1:59

much more about the people, and

2:02

and that is a a really

2:03

important, I think, element. Yeah.

2:05

And, Wana, you can tell when a show is

2:07

creating these cardboard characters Us' feed

2:09

them into a sausage grinder, right, to

2:11

to be killed or killed by the zombies

2:14

or mutants or vampires or whatever. And

2:16

this show, as Eric says, it's really about human

2:19

relationships and the communities they're hanging

2:21

on despite all that. I said when I

2:23

reviewed the show for NPR that this show is

2:25

about the zombies in the same way that

2:27

the Sopranos was about Rico charges.

2:29

Right? Which is to say they're real, they're a threat,

2:32

they're looming over everything, but the show's

2:34

really about what the characters do despite

2:36

them.

2:36

And one of the things that I really

2:39

found fascinating about the show when I started watching

2:41

it is the fact that we're not

2:43

watching this after we've all had this collective

2:45

experience of the pandemic and

2:48

where a virus not unlike in the show has unexpectedly

2:51

changed life as we know it and

2:53

I was wondering how it was gonna hit for me

2:55

given the fact that I think a lot

2:58

of us have a lot of fatigue around

3:00

that, especially in our entertainment. So for

3:02

both of you, I wonder do you think the timing

3:04

matters here? Or do you think that

3:06

the fact that we've gone through this collective experience

3:08

is part of what makes this show

3:10

so

3:11

impactful. Well, what's changed is how

3:13

we approach them. Right? Because once upon a time,

3:15

these shows were science fiction. Right? They

3:17

were horror. They worked purely on a metaphorical

3:20

level, and we could have all these cozy intellectual

3:22

debates. Well, I think the zombies represent

3:24

communism. Now I think the zombies represent 'The.

3:27

But now, these shows are not escapists.

3:29

They're not a theoretical. We can't have

3:31

the same kind of cool emotional distance

3:34

we did. Which is why I think people are

3:36

turning to shows like this, which are about human connections.

3:38

This show is one, station eleven last year was

3:41

another one, there was a show Sweet Tooth, which

3:43

ditch the grim and gritty nihilism

3:45

because that no longer feels fun

3:47

or novel or interesting because why

3:50

pay a streaming service for grim and gritty when you can look

3:52

at your dang window. In in favor

3:54

of something more humane, more

3:57

generous, more

3:58

hopeful. Really? Well, you know, what I what I think

4:00

is interesting about this 'The, the last

4:02

of us, the TV show is based on a video game

4:04

that was created in like twenty thirteen

4:06

or 'The. So, well before

4:09

our current 'The. And there was an element

4:11

of that game where the fungus

4:13

was passed along through spores. Which would

4:16

make it a lot more like what we're going

4:18

through with coronavirus, and they didn't

4:20

transfer that to the TV show, which

4:22

I thought was really interesting. The other

4:24

thing that strikes me about this, and it's kind

4:26

of an aside. But, you know, at

4:28

the end of most virus or

4:30

zombie TV shows or movies, they

4:33

find the cure and that's the end

4:35

because it's assumed that people take

4:37

the cure when it is developed. And

4:40

what we found out in real life is

4:42

that you can come up with a cure and people

4:44

still might not take it. So

4:47

so what is interesting to me about

4:49

the last of us and I I don't wanna give

4:51

away any spoilers. But there is an ambivalence

4:54

about finding the cure when you get to

4:56

the end of this story. That reflects

4:58

I think a little bit about where we are

5:00

right

5:01

now. We cannot have a conversation about

5:03

this show without getting into this week's

5:05

episode, which I have to confess have not

5:08

had chance to watch

5:08

it, so I'm going to ask you not to spoil it for

5:10

you.

5:11

But from what I have heard in my understanding

5:14

of this So it stands out for a number of the reasons

5:16

we are talking about here in terms of

5:18

finding glimmers of

5:19

humanity. Explain what was so

5:21

powerful about this week's episode

5:24

for me. Well, this

5:26

is the kind of love story that

5:28

we don't often see depicted the way

5:30

that it's depicted in this

5:32

episode. We are meeting two

5:35

people who fall in love

5:37

in the middle of an apocalypse. And

5:39

that love is special and Us'. And

5:41

we get the full arc of their love story

5:44

in one episode. And

5:46

it connects very importantly to

5:49

the story of Joel and Ellie, the

5:51

story that runs all the way through the series.

5:53

So it's just this potent bit of storytelling

5:56

that has really really

5:57

'The. Yeah. And if you're just following the social

5:59

media reaction, and it hit people deeply. I

6:01

knew this episode was coming. I sat there and watched

6:03

my social media explode. And

6:06

to to some people, this is it's a deep

6:08

heart wrenching love story. To some people, it's hackneyed

6:10

and cliched. I think it's neither. I think you

6:12

see that it starts at a really interesting

6:14

place where one of these characters is clearly

6:16

playing the other characters, trying to take advantage

6:19

of 'The. It might grow into something real.

6:21

But it starts from much more interesting place than a

6:23

lot of the kind of online reaction has

6:25

suggested. You know, I saw this episode

6:27

described elsewhere and a bottle episode,

6:29

an episode that stands apart in a self

6:31

contained setting that's a departure

6:34

from the expected narrative. And I'm curious, further

6:36

of Us', is this another way in

6:38

which the last of us kind of distinguishes itself

6:41

from others of the genre by

6:43

the types of narrative devices it chooses to

6:45

use. Well, Juan, I can tell you have not been swimming

6:48

in the same backwaters of online TV

6:50

criticism that I have because TV

6:53

critics can just get snippey about 'The. And

6:55

technically, this isn't a bottle episode because

6:57

it doesn't take the main characters and trap them in a

6:59

place and have them go at each other. It's a

7:01

stand alone. It really gives

7:03

us a breather. It shows us how

7:06

very different people are dealing with this

7:08

same situation and it really builds

7:10

out the world of the show by grounding it in something

7:13

familiar to us like long term

7:15

relationships. Relationships are tough Even

7:17

in this world where no one is turning

7:19

into a portabella mushroom at any given

7:21

opportunity, in this world where that's

7:23

happening, The fact that they can survive

7:26

and thrive is even more

7:27

helpful. And and that's another way that

7:29

the series feels fresh. In

7:31

the very next episode, they use

7:33

that perspective changing

7:36

device really, really smartly.

7:38

So this is something we're gonna see again

7:40

and again sort of pop up as the as

7:42

the series goes through its

7:44

episodes. Alright. Well, we'll just have to keep comparing

7:46

notes. That was Eric Deggins, NPR's

7:48

TV critic and Glenn

7:50

Weldon, co host of NPR's pop culture

7:52

happy hour. Thanks Us' both.

7:53

Thanks for having me. Thank you.