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lower. That's shopify.com/ Tech. Hello

1:15

everyone and welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's

1:17

coming up. And

1:21

into depravity, an exclusive and

1:23

chilling investigation into the heinous

1:26

atrocities allegedly carried out by

1:28

Myanmar's military junta. And.

1:31

I feel an immense obligation to

1:33

speak and to act. To

1:36

be a Jew today, Harvard Law

1:38

professor Noah Feldman explores how

1:41

war is widening the generational rift

1:43

in the Jewish community. Then.

1:46

I came to believe as a kid that something was wrong

1:48

with me. That's why I was lonely. How

1:50

to be happy. I speak

1:53

to US Surgeon General Vivek

1:55

Murthy about smartphones, anxiety, and

1:57

tackling the scourge of loneliness.

1:59

Plus. These kids have seen things

2:01

that no child should ever see.

2:03

From Gaza, saved the children president,

2:06

John T. Sowikto, tells Hari Srinivasan

2:08

the time is running out to stop a famine.

2:29

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane

2:32

Amanpour in London. Tonight we start

2:34

with the fallout from a brutal

2:36

military coup in Myanmar, all but

2:38

forgotten by the wider world, while

2:41

atrocities play out in plain view.

2:43

Remember Aung San Suu Kyi, the

2:45

embodiment of that country's struggle for

2:48

democracy? Well, she remains detained after

2:50

the military overthrew her elected government

2:52

in 2021. Since

2:55

then, the junta has been fighting

2:57

rebels across the country, headed up

2:59

by the People's Defense Force, or

3:01

PDF. Now,

3:03

the junta recently brought in conscription

3:06

and is reportedly summoning civilians.

3:08

Now there is evidence emerging

3:11

of horrific extrajudicial killings by the

3:13

junta. In a new investigation, correspondent

3:16

Anna Corin examines videos that show

3:18

two rebel PDF soldiers being tortured

3:20

and killed, part of a pattern

3:23

of horrific violence at the hands

3:25

of the military, which it denies.

3:28

Here is her exclusive report, and some

3:30

of it is very disturbing. Walking

3:35

through the flat, dry scrublands of a

3:37

yore valley in central Myanmar, a soldier

3:39

films on his phone. Hey,

3:43

brother, raise your three fingers, he jokes,

3:45

mocking the salute symbolic of the

3:47

country's resistance movement. No

3:51

more three fingers, yells one of them, and laughs.

3:56

He moves on to another group of

3:58

pro-junta militia, in the shade. Revolution,

4:01

he cried. It's bullshit, they respond. Moments

4:03

later, the man filming asks a soldier

4:05

wearing a military hunter uniform, are they

4:15

PDF? A

4:17

reference to the opposition people's defence

4:19

forces. Yes,

4:22

he replies. This

4:25

brief exchange caught on camera is

4:27

about two rebel fighters they had

4:29

just captured a few hours earlier.

4:32

Before dawn on the 7th of

4:35

November last year, rebels part of

4:37

the PDF staged an attack on

4:39

the pro-hunter militia stronghold in the

4:41

village of Mayok Kinyan Gangor in

4:44

Maghwe Division. But

4:46

instead, the rebels were ambushed

4:49

coming under heavy fire. Platoon

4:52

commander Ninja says as they tried to

4:55

retreat in open fields, several of his

4:57

fighters were injured, while others

4:59

were cut off from the group, including

5:01

21-year-old Po Teh

5:03

and 20-year-old Ta Tung. The

5:07

last time I saw them, they were hunkering down about

5:09

50 metres away from me. A few hours

5:11

later, Ninja's platoon received a message

5:13

from a villager saying two of

5:15

their rebel fighters had been caught

5:17

alive. Also

5:22

obtained by CNN shows the two

5:24

young men bound and bloodied, relentlessly

5:27

taunted by the militia. The

5:32

revolution must lose PDFs are

5:34

dogs, replies Po Teh. How

5:37

many dogs have we killed? Aren't you PDF

5:39

dogs? Where dogs, repeats Ta

5:41

Tung. The

5:46

video then shows them being dragged on the

5:48

ground, their arms and legs hog-tied in chains.

5:53

The next clip, too graphic to show

5:56

in full, reveals the young men

5:58

hanging in chains from large

6:00

tree over a fire being

6:02

burnt alive. Their

6:07

screams heard over cheers from the

6:09

militia as the prisoners arrived in

6:11

agony as flames seared their flesh.

6:16

An eyewitness to the execution told

6:18

us the militia had ordered one

6:20

person from each house to watch. When

6:25

I got there, they hanged them on the tree

6:27

and poured gasoline and diesel on their bodies. The

6:30

rebels were screaming and said they

6:32

apologized. But the militia

6:34

replied, apologize in your next life.

6:37

Cross-referencing more than a dozen

6:39

interviews with witnesses, villagers, resistance

6:41

fighters, family members and experts

6:43

with analysis of the video

6:45

and pictures from the day

6:48

using open source techniques, CNN

6:50

has found evidence that the military

6:53

and its allied militia were responsible

6:55

for the killings. The

6:58

hunter denies the claim, stating the

7:00

video was fabricated. However,

7:02

they do admit an attack took place

7:04

that day and that its troops were

7:06

stationed in the village. CNN

7:09

spoke to both fathers who confirmed their

7:11

sons had been killed. They

7:14

said they encouraged their boys to join the

7:16

revolution and fight. But to

7:18

die like this will haunt them forever. I

7:22

got a chance to watch the video, but

7:24

I could not finish it. I stopped because

7:26

I knew it was going to break my

7:28

heart. The brutality

7:31

of this execution, however, is not

7:33

a one-off case. Since

7:37

the military hunters staged a coup

7:39

in 2021, the level of

7:41

depravity among its soldiers and

7:43

aligned militia has increased in

7:47

response to the mass losses and affections

7:50

it's suffering on the battlefield. The

7:52

hunter's recent announcement of compulsory

7:54

conscription, a clear sign is

7:57

facing enormous pressure. As

8:01

fighting engulfs two-thirds of the country,

8:03

experts believe the military is

8:06

using fear and intimidation to

8:08

try and control a defiant

8:10

population. We've been

8:12

able to verify over 400 burnt

8:15

bodies since the coup and

8:18

we've verified over a dozen instances

8:20

of individual beheadings. This is just

8:22

the tip of the iceberg. But

8:25

the burnings, beheadings and indiscriminate

8:28

artillery and airstrikes are doing anything

8:30

but stamping out the resistance. Rebel

8:35

fighter Yollei, who fought alongside

8:37

Pote and Tatong that fateful

8:39

morning, says what happened

8:41

to his friends has only strengthened

8:44

their resolve. We

8:47

won't give in to fear. We will

8:49

continue this revolution until we win. Only

8:52

then will it be worth it for

8:54

those who sacrificed their lives. Anna

8:59

Corrin reporting their real brutality

9:01

happening in Myanmar. Hi,

9:06

this is Andy Katz, host of March

9:08

Madness 365, presented by Grammarly. This week

9:11

on the podcast, tune in as we

9:13

discuss March Madness players, upsets, matchups and

9:15

bracket busters. Listen to

9:17

March Madness 365 with Andy Katz, presented by

9:19

Grammarly, wherever you get your podcasts. Grammarly

9:22

is a secure AI writing partner that gives your

9:24

team an instant first draft and a few clicks,

9:26

not a few hours. Companies that use Grammarly save

9:28

an average of 19 days per

9:30

employee per year. Grammarly works seamlessly

9:32

across 500,000 apps and

9:34

websites. Get personalized on brand writing

9:37

help everywhere your team works. Learn

9:39

what better writing can do for

9:41

your company at grammarly.com. Grammarly,

9:43

easier said, done. And

9:48

now it has been nearly six months since

9:50

Hamas' brutal massacre in Israel and

9:52

the start of Benjamin Netanyahu's brutal

9:54

war on Gaza. It's a particularly

9:56

fraught time for Jews everywhere, especially

9:58

in the Middle East. especially in

10:00

America. Older generations often

10:02

see the state of Israel in

10:04

the long shadow of the Holocaust,

10:06

proof that a safe and secure

10:09

haven for Jews is possible and

10:11

indispensable. The slaughter of 1,200 in

10:13

Israel, the remaining 130 hostages, have only strengthened that belief.

10:20

But as the horrors of war and starvation

10:22

mount in Gaza, with over 32,000 people now

10:24

dead, many

10:27

younger progressive Jews see Israel

10:29

primarily through its treatment of

10:31

Palestinians and the increasingly

10:33

powerful settler movement. In his

10:35

new book, legal scholar Noah Feldman

10:38

grapples with Jewish identity in the

10:40

21st century and how

10:42

Jews reckon with Israel. It's

10:44

called to be a Jew today, and

10:47

Noah Feldman is joining us from New

10:49

York. Welcome back to the program. Thank

10:53

you for having me, Christian. This

10:56

is really a well-timed book. Obviously, you

10:58

planned it way before October 7th and

11:00

were well underway before October 7th, but

11:03

it's a discussion that is just so relevant

11:05

right now. Let

11:08

me first ask you what you

11:11

state, that October 7th actually is

11:13

a moment of

11:16

Jews outside reckoning with Israel, and

11:18

you focus mostly on American Jews.

11:21

Tell me what you mean. Before

11:26

October 7, it was possible to say, and I

11:28

did say in the book, that

11:30

ultimately Israel has come to play a more

11:32

central role in the lives of Jews around

11:34

the world in recent decades than it ever

11:36

has before. October 7th really

11:38

brought that home because it meant

11:41

that whether Jews are extremely supportive

11:43

of Israel, whether they're critical but

11:45

also supportive, or whether they're frankly

11:47

against Israel, they're forced to in

11:49

some way define themselves in relationship

11:51

to Israel. That's a really remarkable development.

11:53

It's not inherently the case that that's

11:55

always been so. What

11:59

about the initial... motivation,

12:02

inspiration for the book, what

12:04

were you actually setting out to discover?

12:09

I wrote the book because I knew that my kids were

12:11

relatively close to going off to university, and

12:13

I was really struck by how much their experience

12:15

with respect to being Jewish, in the broadest sense,

12:19

was going to be different today than mine was

12:21

back when I was in college, you know, 30

12:23

years ago. And it is

12:25

really very striking that the main

12:27

issues that face Jews today are so different

12:29

than the issues that exist at the time.

12:31

They have to do with inclusion and community,

12:33

and of course also with Israel, and Israel is

12:36

viewed by many people, including Jews, in

12:38

a very different way today than it was a

12:40

quarter century ago. In

12:42

what way? Tell me what, because I've

12:44

heard people say, American Jews say, for

12:46

instance, that, you know, Israel used to

12:48

be, you know, when it was first

12:50

created, 1948, the David, it's morphed to the

12:52

Goliath, and

12:56

there's all these things that people

12:58

are saying that the different generations

13:01

view Israel through different

13:03

lenses. I

13:06

think the most significant change of all of

13:08

them is that 25 years

13:10

ago, it was very possible to be optimistic

13:13

about the possibility of there being an Israel

13:15

and a Palestine living side by side. You

13:17

know, they were live peace talks that involved

13:20

the most senior figures on both sides. There

13:22

was a big handshake, you know, on the White House

13:24

lawn. And in that environment, it

13:26

was very easy for American Jews to think

13:29

Israel aspires to be and is

13:31

becoming a Jewish democratic state, and

13:33

will have a state of Palestine

13:36

alongside it. And under those

13:38

conditions, Israel's values and the

13:40

values of American progressive Jews

13:42

will be perfectly aligned. And

13:44

the key here is to understand that

13:46

for most American progressive Jews, their

13:49

Jewishness is defined in terms

13:51

of the values of liberal

13:53

democracy. And those go

13:55

all the way back to the Bible in

13:57

the sense that they focus on clothing the

13:59

naked and feeding the hungry. and creating and

14:02

establishing social justice. So if that's your Judaism,

14:04

then it's hard to identify with Israel if

14:07

you don't think Israel matches up to those

14:09

goals. If you think Israel does match up

14:11

to those goals, then there's an alignment between

14:13

what you believe in Israel. So

14:16

this obviously brings us to, this

14:19

was really exemplified in a very

14:21

unusual and unprecedented way by Senator

14:23

Chuck Schumer. As he declares himself

14:26

the highest elected Jewish official in

14:28

the United States, he is

14:30

the Senate Majority Leader, he

14:33

is an older generation American Jew,

14:35

a lover of Israel and Jews,

14:38

and he yet took to a

14:40

public forum in the Senate to

14:42

deliver an amazing speech.

14:45

And I'm going to play just a little bit of it

14:47

and we'll talk about it. As

14:50

a lifelong supporter of Israel, it has become

14:52

clear to me the Netanyahu

14:55

coalition no longer fits the

14:58

needs of Israel. I

15:00

believe a new election is

15:02

the only way to allow for

15:04

a healthy and open decision making

15:06

process about the future of Israel

15:09

at a time when so many Israelis

15:12

have lost their confidence in the vision

15:15

and direction of their government. So

15:18

Noah, and you've worked with the

15:20

US government on other issues in the Middle

15:23

East and we've talked about them, he

15:25

was very deliberately talking about the

15:28

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

15:31

He was not casting

15:33

aspersions on any wider

15:35

geographical or state institution.

15:38

He was just saying

15:40

that, and many say, that

15:42

Netanyahu's policies are driving a

15:44

big wedge between Israel and

15:47

the United States, but also

15:50

affecting Israel's standing around

15:52

the world. Do you think most

15:54

Jews took that message? Yes,

15:58

I mean I think there are still probably some

16:00

Jews who think Israel is in war

16:02

and why is Schumer criticizing. But I

16:05

think Schumer really did speak for what

16:07

he called the silent majority of American

16:10

Jews, the overwhelming number of whom

16:12

are Democrats who still care

16:14

about Israel, in many cases really love

16:16

Israel, but who really want Israel

16:18

to behave in a humane way and Israel

16:21

to be governed in a democratic

16:23

way and are extraordinarily upset not

16:25

just by Netanyahu and his policies

16:27

but also by his coalition government

16:29

which includes fringe figures or previously

16:31

fringe figures who are now in

16:34

important cabinet positions who have really,

16:36

really overtly terrible views on

16:38

questions of Jewish supremacy

16:40

over Palestinians, on questions

16:42

of expelling Palestinians from

16:44

their traditional places of

16:46

living, many, many policies that

16:49

are flatly rejected by the United States

16:51

and it's important to say rejected by

16:53

many, many Israelis. And that's

16:55

what Schumer is pointing to. I'm

16:58

glad you said that because the polls

17:00

for the current Israeli government inside Israel

17:03

are at rock bottom right now and that

17:06

call for election, while

17:08

it might have been unprecedented maybe,

17:11

is certainly echoed by former Israeli

17:13

prime ministers who started those calls.

17:15

Ehud Barak wrote a very pointed

17:18

article in an American publication. What

17:20

I want to ask you is about the extremists. First

17:23

of all, National Security Minister Itamar Ben

17:25

Gevir, part of What Keeps Netanyahu in

17:28

Power. He said this in a recent interview,

17:30

you know, talking about this language. Presently,

17:33

Biden prefers the line of

17:36

Rashida Clive and Sinoir

17:38

to the line of Benjamin Netanyahu

17:40

and Ben Gevir. I

17:42

mean, you know, how do

17:45

you even, that is just, how

17:47

do you read that? I mean,

17:49

he's talking about an elected congresswoman

17:51

and a terrorist, basically,

17:53

who was responsible for slaughtering 1,200

17:55

Israelis. Here

18:01

he exists in a reality distortion

18:03

field of nationalist

18:05

Jewish supremacist ideology

18:09

and a kind of milieu of

18:11

messianism that believes somehow that

18:13

no matter how confrontational Israel becomes

18:15

with its neighbors and no matter

18:17

how difficult Israel's international security position

18:19

becomes, divine intervention will somehow save

18:21

it. And that

18:24

is morally wrong and

18:26

it's also pragmatically extremely foolish.

18:29

So he's misrepresenting pretty much everybody

18:31

across the line there, except perhaps

18:34

the Hamas leadership. And that's characteristic

18:36

of how he does politics. And

18:39

look, his presence in the Israeli

18:41

government is a disaster for Israel and

18:44

it's a moral disaster as well as a practical one.

18:46

And that's the kind of thing that Schumer

18:48

is, I think, talking about. And it's also

18:50

the kind of thing that undermines support for

18:53

Israel among American Jews, among progressive American Jews,

18:55

not just in the international community, but right

18:57

here in the United States where I'm speaking

18:59

from. And that's why it's

19:02

so important for American

19:04

Jews to remember that there's an

19:06

affirmative reason for them to

19:08

be connected to their Jewishness. Not only

19:11

is it important for them to combat anti-Semitism

19:13

and to support Israel if that's core to

19:15

their beliefs, but also that there

19:17

are deep personal, spiritual and

19:19

familial reasons for connection

19:22

to Jewishness that will

19:24

sustain belief and sustain commitment,

19:26

even when the politics is very fast changing.

19:29

Now, as you know, the current Israeli government

19:32

blames anti-Semitism

19:35

or describes it, lumps it into

19:37

anti-Semitism, any complaint about the

19:39

government, any criticism about this particular government's

19:43

war aims and conduct.

19:45

Do you agree with Senator Schumer

19:48

when he said that Netanyahu is,

19:50

quote, allowing his political survival, along

19:52

with, you know, propped up by Ben Gevir and

19:54

his likes, allowing his political

19:56

survival to take precedence over the best

19:58

interests of Israel? Certainly,

20:02

as I understand the best interest of Israel.

20:04

Look, Israel is an independent country, but it

20:06

needs the support of the United States. It

20:08

needs the global support of the United States

20:10

because it lives in a very difficult region.

20:13

And in fact, the U.S. has strongly supported Israel

20:15

in the aftermath of October 7, in

20:18

particular, trying to avoid a war

20:20

between Iran and Israel. And

20:23

so given that geopolitical

20:25

reality, that geopolitical fact,

20:27

Schumer is certainly correct that

20:30

if Netanyahu's policies continue to drive

20:32

support away from Israel in the

20:34

United States broadly and among progressive

20:37

American Jews, that represents a genuine,

20:39

even an existential threat to

20:41

Israel in the long run. And Schumer is

20:44

speaking as a long and committed friend of

20:46

Israel when he makes this point. Both

20:49

Ehud Barak and a former foreign minister,

20:51

Zippy Livny, and other Israeli officials, former

20:54

have told me since October 7 that

20:56

one of the key platforms

20:59

and realities of

21:01

Israeli security that the

21:03

Israeli people believe is

21:05

their close relationship to

21:07

the United States. So I

21:10

don't even understand politically why

21:13

Netanyahu, or what do you think

21:15

is the political reason for Netanyahu's

21:17

thumbing his nose constantly at the Biden

21:19

administration now? Well,

21:22

I think Netanyahu has a calculus which has

21:24

worked for him in the past that

21:27

he can rely on broad-based

21:29

U.S. support because of broad-based

21:31

American Jewish support of Israel,

21:34

no matter how far he pushes the

21:37

policy envelope. And he can also hope to

21:39

get Donald Trump back in office, who was

21:41

probably, you can't be sure ever with Donald

21:43

Trump, but probably would be more tolerant of

21:45

what he's doing. Although again, I think that's

21:48

unclear. I think Netanyahu thinks I've gotten away

21:50

with it in the past, and I'll

21:52

get away with it

21:57

now. And what Schumer is saying, and what

21:59

the Biden administration is saying to him

22:01

is you've misread the reality of politics

22:03

in the United States. And

22:06

if you continue the war in Gaza in the

22:08

way that you are doing it, you're going

22:10

to continue to alienate even

22:12

moderate democratic Jewish

22:14

supporters of Israel. And

22:17

that, in a generational sense,

22:19

can't be reversed because Israel needs,

22:21

in the long run, broad support,

22:23

bipartisan support in the United States

22:26

for its continued safety. And

22:28

that can be squandered. And I think that's the central

22:30

message, and I think it needs to be heard loud

22:33

and clear in Israel. And

22:35

again, I think it's crucial to understand that

22:37

the reason for this is that

22:40

progressive American Jews are progressive because

22:42

of their Jewishness, their progressive politics

22:44

they experience as a result of,

22:46

a direct result of their deep,

22:48

personal, familial and spiritual commitments.

22:50

And so if those come into conflict

22:52

with support of Israel, those

22:55

deeper spiritual commitments will prevail. And

22:58

so support of Israel isn't an

23:00

absolute fact for all American Jews.

23:03

What matters more fundamentally is, as Schumer

23:05

himself said, the Jewish value of repairing

23:07

the world of Tikkun Olam, which most

23:09

American Jews identify with the commitment to

23:11

social justice. So,

23:13

as you've mentioned, social justice, progressive

23:15

American Jews, but they're also a

23:18

big cohort of, or

23:20

a significant cohort of conservative American

23:22

Jews. And former

23:24

President Trump, who you mentioned, is

23:26

jumping on this bandwagon now, basically

23:28

saying there are good Jews and

23:30

bad Jews. I mean, he said it. Here's what he said.

23:34

Any Jewish person that votes for

23:36

Democrats hates

23:39

their religion. They hate everything

23:41

about Israel, and they should be ashamed

23:43

of themselves because Israel will be destroyed.

23:48

I mean, what is one meant to think about that?

23:52

I mean, that's repugnant, in my view. I mean,

23:54

first it's repugnant because it's not the business of

23:56

Donald Trump or anybody else to tell

23:58

American Jews what they must. believe as Jews.

24:01

That's for them to figure out. It's

24:03

also blatantly opportunistic in a kind of

24:05

way that I think is really very

24:07

transparent. So it's pretty

24:09

bad business on both of those fronts.

24:12

I would add though that for American

24:14

Jews, their political values, as

24:16

I was saying, are intertwined with

24:18

their religious commitments. And

24:20

so they don't think, many American Jews

24:22

don't think Israel no matter what Israel

24:25

right or wrong. They want Israel to

24:27

conform to its own Declaration of Independence,

24:29

which demands that it be both Jewish

24:31

and democratic. And if Israel doesn't

24:33

do that, they want to hold it to account. And

24:35

they want to make sure that Israel is a liberal

24:37

democracy with equal rights for Palestinian citizens

24:39

of Israel and alongside a Palestinian

24:41

state where Palestinians will be able to

24:43

live normal, decent lives like any other

24:45

person has a fundamental human right to

24:47

do. And so from

24:50

that perspective, Trump couldn't be more

24:52

wrong in saying that American Jews

24:54

have to support him or have to support

24:56

the Republican Party. And to say that Jews

24:59

somehow hate their own religion unless they

25:01

support Donald Trump is a kind of

25:03

distortion that if it were anybody other

25:05

than Donald Trump saying, you would just say, oh my goodness,

25:07

this person is off the rocker and no one will take

25:09

them seriously because it's Donald Trump. He might be off his

25:11

rocker, but we have to take it seriously. And

25:14

very, very, very, very, very briefly, we

25:17

talk about the two state solution and what

25:19

progressive Americans and many others around the world

25:21

want. It seems now that at

25:23

least the United States and all its

25:25

allies are really putting that front and

25:27

center. Do you think it'll have a

25:29

chance on the so-called day after? It

25:33

has a chance. And the main reason it

25:35

has a chance to my mind is that

25:38

Saudi Arabia clearly wants, even after October 7,

25:40

even after Gaza, really wants normalization with Israel

25:42

and will insist for that to happen on

25:45

real steps being taken towards the emergence

25:47

of a genuine Palestinian state. That

25:50

means there's practical geopolitical interest that is

25:52

very, very powerful that will be supported

25:54

by many in Israel and by the

25:56

government of the United States. All right.

25:59

Noah Feldman. And thank you so much.

26:01

To Be a Jew Today is your

26:03

latest book. Thank you. And now it

26:05

has never been easier to connect with

26:08

other people on TikTok, Instagram,

26:10

Facebook, and more. So

26:12

why are we all so lonely?

26:14

Vivek Murthy, the U.S. Surgeon General,

26:16

knows this struggle personally, grappling with

26:18

his own sadness as a child

26:20

and even during a lull between

26:22

jobs. Murthy says that addicted smartphones

26:24

are to blame for rising anxiety,

26:26

and he wants lawmakers to do

26:28

more about it, as he told

26:30

me when he came here to London recently on

26:32

a visit to exchange views with government

26:34

officials and academics. Surgeon

26:38

General, welcome to the program. Thank you so

26:40

much. You are in England. I

26:42

mean, perhaps people would be surprised to know that

26:44

you're here for a happiness summit. In fact, we're talking

26:47

on International Happiness Day. Why?

26:50

What is the problem with the deficit of happiness? Well

26:52

the problem is that, you know, happiness

26:55

is intrinsically linked to health. You know,

26:57

when we are not feeling

26:59

happy, when we're not feeling fulfilled in our lives,

27:01

it affects how we show up at work, at

27:04

school, in our communities, but

27:06

it also ultimately has an impact on our

27:08

physical health. We've now learned over the years

27:10

that there's a strong connection between our mind

27:12

and our body, how we feel and how

27:14

we are. And the more

27:16

we've learned about that, we've learned, for example,

27:18

that issues like loneliness and isolation have

27:21

tremendous effects in increasing the risk for

27:23

both depression and anxiety, but also for

27:25

heart disease, for dementia and for premature

27:27

death. I know that you are

27:29

Yorkshire-born. In other words, you are a Yorkshire

27:31

lad, let's say. Are

27:34

you surprised that this country, I mean, you

27:36

know, pretty close to top of the tables

27:38

in the OECD nation, is

27:40

the second most unhappy, depressed country

27:43

in the world, only Uzbekistan

27:45

has it worse. Are

27:47

you surprised? Well, I'm deeply

27:49

concerned, but I think one of the key

27:51

lessons from this is that economic prosperity alone

27:53

is not the key to happiness. And in

27:55

fact, what we are seeing is

27:57

that in many, many countries, which are in

28:00

increasingly modernizing in terms of their economy,

28:02

their culture, etc. We're

28:04

actually seeing that unhappiness is growing and I

28:06

think that's coming for a few different reasons.

28:08

One of them is because we are actually

28:11

pulling further and further apart from one another

28:13

with the benefits and efficiencies of modern technology

28:15

and ways of life. We actually

28:17

have fewer friends that we trust, fewer

28:20

relationships we can rely on and that

28:22

is a direct impact on our happiness

28:24

and well-being. The other challenge though

28:26

is I think technology has been a mixed blessing

28:28

for us and I think particularly when it

28:31

comes to young people, the impact of social

28:33

media on their mental health has often been

28:35

quite negative which is why last year I

28:38

issued a Surgeon General's Advisory on Social

28:40

Media and Youth Mental Health to point

28:42

out the fact that when young people

28:44

are using social media as they often

28:46

are for more than three hours a

28:48

day, they double their risk of anxiety

28:50

and depression symptoms. You have in fact

28:52

gone even further comparing social media and

28:55

the tech companies to 20th century

28:57

car giants which have produced vehicles without

28:59

seat belts and airbags until legislation mandated

29:01

it. What's happening in social media is

29:04

the equivalent of having children in cars

29:06

that have no safety features and driving

29:08

on roads with no speed limits, no

29:10

traffic lights, no rules whatsoever and we're

29:12

telling them, you know what, do your

29:14

best, figure it out. It's insane. Yeah,

29:18

that is what we've done to our children. We've

29:20

put them in unsafe, untenable environments and

29:22

we're hoping for the best and you

29:24

know who else we've placed a burden

29:26

on, our parents. Parents

29:29

all across the world are trying to figure

29:31

out how to manage social media for their

29:33

kids. These platforms are rapidly evolving. Many

29:36

parents never grew up with them and

29:38

what they are finding is that their

29:40

kids are often exposed to extraordinary harms

29:42

whether that's violence and sexual content, whether

29:44

it's content generated by the algorithm that

29:46

in some cases tells them to harm

29:48

themselves and the experience itself, many

29:50

young people tell me, has led them

29:52

to often feel worse about themselves and about

29:54

their friendships yet they feel they

29:56

can't get off of it because the features that are built

29:58

in are... meant to maximize

30:00

how much time we all spend on them.

30:03

And that is a profound source of concern

30:05

for me as a doctor as I watch

30:07

the profound and disturbing health effects on our

30:10

kids. Can I ask you a personal question?

30:12

Did you have personal experience as a child

30:14

with any kind of loneliness that informs your

30:16

zeal for this? I

30:21

did, Christiane. I struggled a lot with loneliness as

30:23

a child. I was shy. I

30:25

was introverted. I didn't have

30:27

a lot of people who were from similar

30:29

cultural backgrounds or immigrant backgrounds.

30:31

And I ended up feeling quite different

30:33

and left out a lot. And

30:36

that was really hard. But what was particularly hard for

30:38

me, Christiane, was the shame that

30:40

came with that. I came

30:42

to believe as a kid that something was wrong

30:44

with me. That's why I was lonely, that something

30:46

was broken. Maybe I wasn't likeable. Maybe

30:48

I wasn't lovable. And even though my parents

30:50

loved me unconditionally, Christiane, I never

30:52

told them about these struggles because I felt ashamed.

30:55

I have felt this is an adult at times, too, these

30:58

struggles with loneliness. After my first stint as surgeon

31:00

general, in fact, I

31:03

was left without a work community. I

31:05

had largely neglected my friends and family

31:07

as I allowed myself to get inundated

31:09

with my work. And

31:11

I bore the consequence of that later when I

31:13

felt profoundly alone and lost. And

31:15

I think a lot of people go through these struggles.

31:17

We don't talk about them often, but they're

31:20

deep, they're profound, and they're part of the human

31:22

experience. If you experience loneliness from time

31:24

to time, it's one thing. If

31:26

you reconnect with people, that loneliness goes away. It's

31:28

when it's prolonged, when it's deep, that's when it

31:31

starts to have impacts on our health and well-being.

31:33

And if we can just talk more openly about

31:35

this, if we can recognize the power of

31:38

showing up in each other's lives or

31:40

checking on friends, of putting 10-minute society chain

31:42

to reach out to people we care about,

31:45

we can make a big difference in how connected we are. That's

31:48

one aspect of the loneliness. The other aspect,

31:50

as you said, is the social media. And

31:52

you, I was staggered to read that

31:55

you'd gone to several universities in the United

31:57

States and where there should be chatter and

31:59

connection It was total silence. Yes,

32:02

this is one of the most striking things on

32:04

the university tour that I did in the United

32:06

States, was just the volume on the campuses and

32:08

in the dining halls was much lower. I remember

32:10

when I was in university, the loudest place on

32:12

campus was actually the dining hall. We would all

32:15

finish our classes, come there, never wanted to talk,

32:17

talk, talk and catch up. But

32:19

not only is it quieter there because people

32:21

aren't talking, they're on their devices, but

32:24

so many students came up to me and

32:26

said, how are we supposed to

32:28

build connection with one another when the

32:30

culture isn't to engage people

32:32

in conversation? They asked you how are we

32:34

supposed to even meet people and have conversation? That's

32:36

right, because it feels intrusive, they would

32:38

say, to approach somebody when they've got

32:40

their earbuds in, when they're looking at

32:42

their phone. And the

32:44

harder, the less you do it, the harder

32:47

it gets because our social muscle has to

32:49

be built over time. If we don't exercise

32:51

it, meaning if we don't interact with other

32:53

people, start conversations, engage in person,

32:56

that muscle becomes weaker and in person interaction

32:58

becomes harder and harder. And

33:00

that's what we're seeing with our kids. And so of course now

33:02

everybody thinks AI is going to be the replacement for romance, not

33:07

just dating apps, but actual robots and

33:09

things. What's your view on that? So

33:12

I think it can be tempting and easy

33:14

to look at AI as a panacea for

33:16

all ills and it might be easier and

33:18

more convenient to turn to a chatbot than

33:20

to go out and build a relationship. But

33:22

these are fundamentally different. There is no

33:24

replacement for in-person human connection. It's how

33:26

we were evolved over thousands of years.

33:28

We were wired, hardwired, to connect with

33:30

one another. And we've got to

33:33

intentionally build that back into our life now because

33:35

it is slipping away. Now let's

33:37

talk about disease and what keeps you up at night. For

33:40

instance, the explosion of measles. Apparently

33:42

there are 36 states in the

33:44

United States which are not vaccinated

33:47

to the herd immunity level. This is very, very

33:49

worrisome and it should be worrisome to everyone because

33:51

this is about measles but it's actually even bigger

33:53

than measles. This is about the fact that

33:56

we have over years developed

33:58

powerful vaccines. that can protect us,

34:00

that can save lives. And

34:03

in the case of measles alone, we

34:06

have saved globally nearly 58 million

34:08

lives in the last 20 years

34:10

because of the measles vaccine. Yet, despite

34:12

these being available, we are seeing in

34:14

some cases vaccine hesitancy grow. We're seeing

34:16

that not as many people are getting

34:18

these vaccines. Most people still are, but

34:21

the fact that not enough people are means that

34:23

we are starting to see these outbreaks of measles.

34:26

Measles should be- And people are dying. And

34:28

people are dying. Measles is a deadly disease. And

34:30

it's also important to know that measles is one

34:32

of the most contagious diseases that we know of.

34:35

If you are not vaccinated, for example, and you're

34:37

exposed to measles, there's a 90%

34:39

chance that you will contract that disease,

34:41

which is profound. But I think that what we have

34:43

to do is recognize that a lot of this misinformation

34:45

is spreading online. It's spreading a

34:47

lot of it on social media platforms.

34:50

And I think we all have to recognize

34:52

that we have a role to play when

34:55

it comes to addressing the flow of that

34:57

misinformation. If you're in public life, whether you're

34:59

in government, whether you're an entertainer, a musician,

35:01

anybody who has a public reputation, what you

35:04

say is often heard by a lot of

35:06

people. We have to be thoughtful and cautious

35:08

about not just taking something we hear online

35:11

and spreading it everywhere. Let me ask

35:13

you about reproductive rights, because there has

35:15

been a massive backlash in the

35:18

United States to the Supreme Court

35:20

reversing Roe versus Wade and other

35:22

things that other states

35:24

have tried to do to prevent women

35:26

from having the choice to determine their

35:28

own reproductive care and futures. How

35:32

does this affect the Surgeon General's remit?

35:34

We've seen that with reproductive rights. When

35:36

you restrict people's access

35:39

to reproductive services, it

35:42

actually does lead to unsafe procedures and

35:44

to worse health outcomes. So the bottom line

35:47

here, and I come at this first and

35:49

foremost as a doctor, is that

35:51

we've got to give people freedom to make their

35:53

decisions. We've got to support them in having access

35:55

to good health care. And this is

35:57

where the restrictions on reproductive health become highly

35:59

problematic. And it's not just bad for

36:01

patients, but I will also say it has put

36:03

many healthcare providers in impossible situations

36:05

of knowing what their patient needs, but

36:07

in some cases being unable to deliver

36:09

it because of restrictions in

36:12

the law. To bring

36:14

this back in a way to social media

36:16

that you are very concerned about, social media

36:19

algorithms amplify misogynistic content,

36:22

again, all about women.

36:26

Director and business professor at NYU,

36:28

Scott Galloway, has said, you know,

36:30

there is a really dangerous phenomenon.

36:32

We do not want young, lonely,

36:35

depressed males, you know, in society,

36:38

which is what social media is

36:41

also enhancing. Plus, all those incels,

36:44

you know, women hating incels, all of

36:46

this also is on social media. Well,

36:48

when it comes to the algorithms, I

36:50

do think that they are highly problematic. I

36:52

think that they tend to amplify content that

36:55

has, as I think of it, a high emotional valence.

36:58

That means that content that's going to stoke our

37:00

emotions. If you want to draw

37:02

people's attention in, psychology

37:05

will tell you that the best way to do that

37:07

is to stoke anxiety, fear and

37:09

anger. There's so many

37:12

parents, Christian, that I have met all across

37:14

the United States who have told me that

37:16

when their child was in a moment of

37:18

emotional distress, they broke up with

37:21

a girlfriend or a boyfriend or they had a major

37:23

disappointment in life, that at those times

37:25

they have sometimes turned to social media for

37:28

help, and that the algorithm

37:30

has often served up content that in

37:32

fact amplifies their sadness. In

37:34

too many cases, parents have told me that in

37:37

those settings, the algorithm brought content

37:39

to their child that not only

37:41

suggested that they take their own life, but actually

37:43

walked them through how to do that. And

37:45

in many cases, their child did end up losing

37:48

their life. These are unconscionable

37:50

circumstances and situations that should not

37:52

be allowed. Well, you

37:54

have certainly taken the bull by the horns

37:57

and you're calling for regulation and warning about

37:59

these consequences. Summing, all of us

38:01

can relate to. Be. That

38:03

mercy Thanks very much for being the last. Thanks so

38:05

much for to be with you. And

38:12

more now on The Dies Humanitarian.

38:14

Situation in Gaza. A senior

38:16

Us defense official says there

38:18

has been. A cause

38:20

significant increase. In the amount of

38:23

aid flowing into the and place

38:25

with an average of two hundred

38:27

frogs and three days almost double

38:29

what it was in February. But

38:31

as at least twelve people round

38:33

off the coast of northern Gaza

38:35

or tries receive a drop parcels

38:37

and fallen into the sea on

38:39

Monday obviously the situation is clearly

38:41

still desperate. Yawn. see, so ripped.

38:43

Oh the head of Save the

38:45

Children Us tells Horace feet of

38:47

us. And now what it's like

38:49

wishes in Rafah. Your.

38:52

Disrupt! Oh thanks so much for joining

38:54

us! You are in Rafah right now

38:56

on. For people who just been watching

38:58

this through their Tvs, give us an

39:00

idea of what you walk through today,

39:02

what you've seen. As.

39:05

Your airy gravity. Look

39:07

when I walk through. Today was. Essentially.

39:10

What We've also seen her. On our television

39:12

screens that there's nothing like being sort

39:15

of up close and personal on and

39:17

this really seeing it's here. I mean

39:19

in Rafah. There are literally people everywhere.

39:22

There are tens everywhere, there are children,

39:24

Everywhere running around, many of them

39:27

without shoes on on. Some are

39:29

playing, some trying to find food.

39:32

Some. Are just. Yell.

39:34

Run around his children do ah but it

39:37

is. Unbelievable sides to have

39:39

so many people in such as

39:41

such a small. Space.

39:43

Together on it is difficult

39:46

to literally. Make. Our way to

39:48

buy cars. It's certainly difficult

39:50

for for aid organizations to

39:52

get their supplies through if

39:54

you're driving trucks. Ah, an

39:56

Aunt is just a massive

39:58

seen of you percent. people

40:00

in humanitarian need. So what

40:02

is the infrastructure there? Is it straining

40:05

under the weight of all of these

40:07

people? I mean is there power, water,

40:09

light and how are people getting

40:11

food? All of the above. So

40:13

massive of course lack of clean

40:16

drinking water which is of course one of

40:18

the biggest issues particularly

40:20

in terms of health and disease. I

40:22

saw many kids today with

40:25

rashes, there's lots

40:27

of coughing, respiratory diseases, there's kids

40:30

presenting with hepatitis, diarrhea

40:32

etc. So you see kids who are really

40:35

undernourished, malnourished, there's not enough

40:37

food, you know

40:39

the IPC numbers that came out last

40:41

week were coughing

40:44

and record-breaking in the worst sense of the

40:46

word. Those numbers

40:50

have not been recorded ever anywhere

40:53

to that extent. Essentially everybody

40:55

in Gaza currently is skipping meals

40:58

and in particular of course mothers will skip

41:00

meals and mothers always laugh because they are

41:03

trying to save some of the food for

41:05

their children. So you know you're

41:07

starting to tell a little bit about those choices.

41:09

What are the choices that families are having to

41:11

make now to keep their

41:13

kids fed? So they're skipping

41:15

meals, you

41:18

know you also hear horrific stories

41:20

about the choices that doctors have to

41:22

make. I was talking to a few

41:24

doctors earlier today in one of the

41:26

field hospitals and you

41:28

know they see they have babies

41:31

and incubators three to four at a

41:33

time because there's not enough

41:35

space for them. Doctors have to make

41:38

really difficult choices to say

41:40

which baby shall we save and which one are we

41:42

sending home knowing that the baby will die. 180 babies

41:44

are born per day in Gaza. There's

41:49

not enough, of course many of them

41:51

are prematurely born as well because mothers

41:53

are in distress or undernourished so that

41:55

happens more often and a

41:58

lot of the babies get sent home to die. mothers

42:01

forgoing food, to save them

42:04

for their children. They're

42:06

spending hours and hours to

42:09

find a way to go to the bathroom

42:11

because there's only one bathroom for roughly

42:13

800 to a thousand people. They

42:16

have to find wood in order to find

42:19

something to cook with if they are lucky

42:21

enough to actually find some ingredients. So

42:25

that is daily life in Gaza

42:27

at this point in time. Yanti,

42:29

what did the children say to the

42:31

aid workers that they see? Kids

42:37

always want to be children. They

42:39

saw amazing kinds of kids

42:41

today. On the

42:44

one they want, someone to choose

42:46

because they had none and it was still

42:48

pretty cold. There was literally, we were standing on this

42:51

road outside. They had

42:53

no shoes. So someone choose, all of

42:55

them want food or water. And

42:59

they are also missing school, right?

43:02

And that is sometimes seen as

43:04

sort of a secondary priority

43:06

which in our mind it is

43:08

not because education is also a

43:11

fantastic intervention to help children process

43:13

trauma. It is in a way

43:15

also a mental health intervention.

43:17

I was talking to this mom earlier today and she

43:19

said to me, and it was really striking. She said

43:21

to me, I need mental

43:23

health support more than I need food. And

43:26

she said that in a context where essentially

43:28

everybody is hungry, starvation is

43:31

already happening, particularly in the North.

43:33

And yet she still said, she

43:35

felt that she needed mental health

43:37

support more. Now

43:40

I see the definition of famine

43:42

by the integrated food security phase

43:44

classification, the IPC as at least

43:46

20% of households are

43:49

facing a lack of food. Would you say that's there?

43:52

Yes. Okay, 30% of

43:54

children are suffering from malnutrition

43:57

did three out of 10 of the kids that you saw today.

43:59

Did they live... malnourished? Yes.

44:02

And then at least two people per

44:04

10,000 are dying each day from

44:06

starvation or disease. That's a harder number to

44:08

quantify. But what do you hear from the

44:10

health officials that are working on the ground?

44:14

Yeah, that is a hard one to quantify because the

44:17

tracking of the data is hard

44:19

here currently. How people classify

44:21

deaths, are they trauma

44:24

related, non trauma related. So that one is the

44:26

harder one to crack. If

44:28

you really read that IPC report carefully and

44:30

I've read all 44 pages of it, it's a really

44:35

technical, well established, well experienced

44:38

form of mechanism. They've been

44:40

very conservative I would say

44:42

in how they phrase it.

44:44

So all kinds of caveats

44:46

about the difficulty of

44:49

actually confirming the

44:51

data in person. But

44:55

they say there is a reasonable,

44:57

there's very reasonable evidence that

44:59

famine is occurring. So I think

45:02

that is a very strong statement. It's

45:04

also, the kids I saw today

45:06

were in the South and we know that the

45:08

situation in the North is still much,

45:10

much worse because they've had much less aid

45:13

come through there. My question

45:15

I guess is even if we

45:17

cross those thresholds into the state

45:19

of famine, does

45:21

that change anything? No,

45:24

so from our point of view we

45:27

need to respond now and get much, much

45:29

more aid in. Start malnutrition

45:32

treatment for children now because

45:35

no matter when this threshold, this technical

45:37

threshold is crossed as you say, it

45:39

doesn't matter. They're starving now, you have

45:42

to starve now. People will still die

45:44

in a few weeks time even if you

45:46

start now because for some it will be too late.

45:49

One of the longer term

45:51

challenges that happen after

45:54

something like this, I mean I

45:56

want to hope like everybody else that the

45:58

actual immediate conflicts of size but when

46:01

you look around at these kids who,

46:03

you know, some of them who have

46:05

physical injuries and rashes from close quarters

46:07

and unhygienic conditions, to the

46:09

ones who have not had school and the

46:11

ones, as you said, the mom who was

46:13

asking for mental health, what

46:16

are the kind of structural and

46:18

longer-term problems that arise when you

46:20

have this kind of massive displacement

46:23

and internal migration and starvation? Yeah,

46:25

look, these kids have seen things that no

46:27

child should ever see, and it's not just

46:30

the numbers here are so staggering, right? There's a

46:32

million children. 13,000 kids

46:35

have died. Many thousands more

46:38

have life-changing injuries. I

46:40

was really shocked by the fact

46:42

that over a thousand kids are

46:44

reported to have lost one or

46:46

two limbs. When I speak to

46:48

doctors about that, you know,

46:51

that in and of itself is a

46:53

life-changing injury. It's often, you know, difficult

46:55

to treat it appropriately, et cetera.

46:59

So we see that. We

47:01

see the mental health impact. We see,

47:03

you know, kids who are malnourished, particularly

47:05

very young children under the age of

47:07

two, that has a lifetime impact

47:09

on their mental development and their physical

47:11

development as well. So

47:13

it will take an enormous amount of,

47:15

you know, manpower funding

47:18

to clear the streets of

47:20

rubble. The amount of rubble that's over

47:23

here in the north is, according

47:25

to reports, much, much worse. Get

47:27

the rubble out of the way. Rebuild the

47:30

schools. Rebuild the water infrastructure. Rebuild homes.

47:33

It will take many, many years. And

47:35

at the same time, we also need

47:37

to rebuild this civilian

47:39

population, particularly the younger ones,

47:41

to help them recover from

47:43

trauma, to process it, to

47:45

catch up their lives,

47:48

their, yes, their education

47:51

and their way of interacting. The

47:53

report last week said that even

47:56

in northern Gaza, there is an

47:58

opportunity here to try and help.

48:00

and stop famine from spreading if

48:03

we can try to get

48:05

water and nutrition products, medicines,

48:07

health, sanitation there. I'm

48:10

wondering, seeing what you've seen, is

48:14

it possible to stand up that

48:16

infrastructure fast enough before this gets

48:18

worse? Yes,

48:22

if everybody makes the right choices, absolutely.

48:25

There is a road, there are various

48:27

roads into the north of Gaza. We

48:30

need to flood the north of

48:32

Gaza with food, with water, with

48:34

basic necessities. There are thousands

48:36

of trucks waiting, just literally

48:38

20 kilometers down the road

48:40

here, that can go in and

48:43

actually make those deliveries into

48:46

northern Gaza. There are community leaders there

48:49

who can help with the distribution. So

48:51

it is absolutely possible to

48:54

get that level of supplies in that

48:56

are needed to make the best effort

48:59

to save off famine and starvation. Is

49:02

there a coordinated coalition? Are you working

49:04

with different agencies, different governments to try

49:06

to get food in? Yes, I

49:09

mean, there is coordination here. We actually,

49:11

I met some of them this morning,

49:13

UN agencies, World Food Program, UNOCHA,

49:17

and there is a real effort from everybody

49:21

to share information, to share supplies, to

49:23

help each other out, to

49:25

combine trucks and

49:28

supplies, to

49:30

combine, you know,

49:33

reckeys into the north so that it's safe

49:35

where people go together. So there is a

49:37

real, you know, there is collaboration. There's

49:40

also sometimes a scramble for that

49:42

information because it is very unpredictable.

49:44

The level of violence and bombing

49:47

is still unpredictable, notwithstanding

49:49

the resolution. So there

49:52

is coordination, but it is still unbelievably hard.

49:54

We would like to see 40 trucks per

49:56

day go into the north of Gaza. We

49:58

were super happy. Earlier this week to find

50:01

out. With that we got seven trucks in so

50:03

that gives you. That. The sense of

50:05

the gap that still exist if we really. Want

50:07

to stay for famine? And. Her In

50:09

a recent the joint letter

50:11

by and Jos He said

50:13

it's our experience of the

50:15

humanitarian response and Gaza including

50:17

Us bondage, Humanitarian assistance has

50:19

been consistently an arbitrarily denied,

50:21

restricted and impeded by the

50:24

Israeli authorities. And I'm wondering.

50:27

This group of organizations yourself

50:29

included. Do. You think that that

50:31

effort to impede aig is intentional? Well.

50:36

I think. The. Outcomes are

50:38

siblings. Faith. So

50:40

if. Is. People.

50:42

Know what the outcomes are of having

50:45

Sixty trucks them into the other instead

50:47

of the five hundred said the were

50:49

before of having only. Thirty.

50:51

Percent of the required authorisations of getting

50:54

aid into the North. Come. Through

50:56

his field if if

50:58

those, if. Not

51:00

even with. You and resolution on

51:02

the table. The bombs are still

51:04

not Silence on. Feel. That

51:08

is certainly the it'll not

51:10

try to mitigate loss of

51:13

civilian. As

51:15

is evidenced by the fact that more children have

51:17

died over the last six months. Then

51:19

or someplace combined every year for

51:21

the last five years. When. You

51:23

look at the kind of need is

51:25

the international aid community geared up to

51:28

be able to tackle the scale of

51:30

a problem this fast. If

51:32

there's a cease fire and is possible to

51:34

do more things in the safest for men

51:36

are. I think Humanity

51:38

Community. Plus. The commercial sector

51:41

could. Actually, step up to that challenge and

51:43

get stuff in. As I said, there are

51:45

thousands of trucks even waiting now as we

51:47

speak. That could come in that are

51:49

ready The food. And

51:52

hygiene kits and shelters

51:54

and incubators. And generators and

51:56

whatever else. A. Hospital needs actually

51:59

operate or. what a desalination

52:01

plant needs in order to be rebuilt

52:03

so that actually clean water can start to flow

52:05

again. So all of those things

52:07

are actually not rocket science at all. And

52:10

that supply chain

52:13

is there. We can do it via

52:15

Egypt. We can do it via Jordan. We can do

52:17

it via Cyprus. And

52:20

I think that is what the international community

52:22

combined with the phenomenal local partners

52:25

on the ground can actually do when we're

52:27

allowed to do it. You know, just two

52:29

days ago, Save the Children,

52:31

along with other organizations, put out a

52:34

release saying that there is a continued

52:36

closure of vital border crossings. There

52:39

is still a denial of movement

52:41

requests within Gaza. There have been

52:43

repeated attacks on aid

52:45

workers, convoys and distributions and

52:48

even humanitarian sites that have

52:50

been submitted to Israeli authorities

52:52

as part of the confliction.

52:56

Are you still seeing that aid workers

52:59

are in danger when they are trying to

53:01

get food and supplies into

53:03

Rafa or Gaza? Absolutely.

53:06

Absolutely. We hear that all the time, not just

53:08

from our own staff, but also from

53:10

other agencies and partners, our local partners

53:13

that are still operating in the north as well as in the south.

53:17

That the confliction mechanism is still

53:20

not working enough and not predictably

53:22

so. So, yes, the ordinates are

53:24

given. They are confirmed and then

53:27

still sometimes attacks do happen on

53:29

convoys, on offices, on

53:32

warehouses, on hospitals,

53:34

clearly. And

53:37

that level of complexity

53:39

in the operation, how to get

53:42

the trucks up to the north, how to get the

53:44

number of drivers who can drive the trucks authorized to

53:46

go up to the north, and then to make sure

53:48

that you do not get attacked while

53:50

doing it, while delivering that aid, that

53:53

all makes this operation incredibly complicated

53:55

and dangerous. But you have laid out

53:58

the need and then there is still a need. a gap

54:00

between that and what might be a

54:02

political reality or a tactical reality. Prime

54:04

Minister Netanyahu says that there are plans,

54:06

they may be imminent, to try to

54:08

push into Raffa. What

54:13

would a full-scale invasion

54:17

of that area do to the place that

54:19

you walk through today? Well,

54:22

I've been saying for a

54:24

number of weeks now that every time I get

54:27

past this question that it can't get any worse, and every

54:29

week I've been proven wrong. Every week

54:31

it's gotten worse. And

54:34

it would be an absolutely unmitigated

54:36

disaster. There's 1.4 million

54:38

people now in Raffa, a town where there

54:41

were 200,000 before,

54:44

so it is completely overrun

54:46

already. There is no reasonable,

54:48

I think, or adequate plan you can

54:51

do for mass evacuation of that many

54:53

people. And by the way, where are

54:55

they going to go? They

54:57

can't cross the border, they can't run

55:00

into the sea, they can't really

55:02

go back up north because it is

55:04

completely destroyed, and there's lots of unexploded

55:06

orders there. So they're

55:09

stuck here. There is

55:11

no realistic evacuation plan. So

55:13

a mass incursion into Raffa would

55:16

be a massacre. What do

55:18

people there and what do children there need

55:20

the most right now? They need peace.

55:24

They need a ceasefire. They need

55:26

bombs to stop falling. They need a shelling

55:28

to stop so that everybody can

55:30

take a deep breath. And

55:33

then humanitarian workers and the

55:35

commercial sector can start to

55:37

really flood Gaza with the

55:39

necessary supplies, humanitarian supplies,

55:41

commercial supplies, so that we can

55:43

start to rebuild lives, treat

55:46

people adequately, have people

55:48

supported in their mental health and

55:51

psychosocial needs, get

55:55

children back into school, restart

55:59

hospitals. desalination plants essentially

56:02

rebuilds Gaza. Yeah,

56:05

Ante Serrepto, Save the Choner, thank you so

56:07

much for joining us. Thank

56:09

you for having me. And

56:12

finally, homage to a story beloved

56:15

by children and their parents all

56:17

over the world. Laurent de

56:19

Bruinoff, who wrote dozens of Baba the

56:21

Elephant books died recently at 98. The

56:25

idea for the globe-crotting green-suited

56:27

elephant was dreamed up by his mother

56:30

as a bedtime story. His father, Jean,

56:32

sketched the elephant and published the first

56:34

Baba book in 1931. When

56:37

he was 21 after his father died,

56:41

Laurent took up the torch, selling

56:44

millions of copies worldwide in 18

56:46

languages and adapted into

56:48

TV series and films. But while

56:50

Baba's fandom reached far and wide

56:52

from Charles de Gaulle to Maurice

56:54

Sendak, some couldn't ignore the

56:56

actual elephant in the room. A

56:58

few books were accused of including sexism,

57:01

colonialism, and racism. And

57:03

after Toni Morrison complained, de

57:05

Bruinoff demanded the offending book

57:07

be taken out of print.

57:10

When asked what his utopian elephant

57:12

world signified, he said that if

57:14

there was one consistent message, it

57:17

was non-violence. That's

57:19

it for now. Thank you for watching and goodbye from

57:21

London. Hi,

57:28

this is Andy Katz, host of March Madness 365, presented

57:31

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57:33

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57:35

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Grammarly. Easier said, done. I'm

58:08

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58:10

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