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1:01

Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. OK, guys,

1:03

let me set this scene for you.

1:05

It is 10 to 11 here

1:07

in New Hampshire, 10 to 4 in the morning in the UK.

1:10

The snow has just started gently

1:12

falling down out of the night

1:14

sky. And you can see it in the

1:16

floodlights in front of this bizarre

1:19

hotel, which is shaped like

1:21

some kind of English medieval castle. And

1:23

in there is where Donald Trump

1:25

and his team are celebrating their victory in

1:27

New Hampshire. And I can tell you all

1:29

of that because I can see it from

1:31

outside my hotel room window. I have not

1:33

on this occasion been invited into the Trump

1:35

party, I'm afraid. So I can only tell

1:37

you what it looks like from the outside.

1:40

But that's not going to stop us talking about

1:42

what's happened here in New Hampshire tonight and what

1:45

it means for the race going forward. Yeah. And

1:47

in one sentence, what has happened, Sarah, is that

1:49

Donald Trump has won and

1:51

won well enough that he

1:53

is absolutely, unquestionably the

1:56

front runner to go forward. In fact, that's

1:58

really not putting it strongly enough. visit. Nikki

2:00

Haley says she's carrying on, but I mean,

2:03

where is she going to win or when? Well,

2:06

that's a good question. And it remains to be

2:08

seen of whether she really is going to carry

2:10

on all the way to the next primary, which

2:12

is in a month's time in our home state

2:15

of South Carolina. We'll talk about some of that

2:17

a bit later. But it is worth saying at

2:19

this point, we don't have all the results in,

2:21

but it appears that although Trump has won the

2:23

perfectly decent victory, it's not as huge as he

2:25

might have hoped. So maybe that's what gives a

2:28

glimmer of hope to the Haley campaign. Welcome to

2:30

America's New Hampshire primary special. America.

2:34

America from BBC News. I want

2:36

to congratulate Trump on his

2:38

victory tonight. He earned it and I want

2:40

to acknowledge it.

2:44

And she doesn't win this. This is not

2:46

your typical victory speech, but let's not

2:48

have somebody take a victory when

2:50

she had a very bad night. She

2:53

had a very bad night. Hi,

3:12

it's Sarah. I'm coming to you

3:14

from a hotel room in Nashua,

3:16

New Hampshire. It's Justin in the

3:18

worldwide headquarters of America's in London,

3:21

England. And it's Anthony in downtown

3:23

Manchester, New Hampshire. So as

3:25

we said at the beginning, we're all here

3:27

because the New Hampshire primary, the first in

3:30

the nation has been happening. And we've

3:32

got most of the results in so

3:34

far, which currently looks like over 50%

3:36

of the vote has gone to Donald

3:39

Trump. But remember, the competition

3:41

has been winnowed down to just one. This

3:43

is now a two person race. So taking

3:46

50% of the vote isn't the huge achievement

3:48

that it was in Iowa. It would appear

3:50

that Nikki Haley is

3:52

around about 10, maybe 12

3:55

points behind him. So double

3:57

digit behind him. But nonetheless,

3:59

the lot closer than she came

4:01

in Iowa and it's a lot closer than

4:03

some of the polls were predicting she might.

4:05

Then again this is a state where Nikki

4:07

Haley invested a ton of resources. She spent

4:10

tens of millions of dollars here. Unlike Iowa

4:12

she had the endorsement of the popular Republican

4:14

governor here in New Hampshire. She'd spent a

4:16

considerable amount of time. This was her best

4:18

punch at Donald Trump and while she outperformed

4:21

the polls that suggested Donald Trump might win

4:23

by as much as 20%, she

4:26

still didn't claw her way all the way

4:28

back to the top. A win for Donald

4:30

Trump is a win and it does move him

4:32

one step closer to the nomination. The problem for

4:34

Nikki Haley surely is that she has trouble with

4:36

a group of voters known as Republicans and

4:39

this is essentially the Republican primary. It

4:41

is the Republican primary. Albeit

4:43

in New Hampshire a lot of independents vote

4:45

and are allowed to vote and it's perfectly

4:47

acceptable than they that they do even

4:50

in in the weird circumstances of New

4:52

Hampshire where it is an electorate that

4:54

is much more mixed than in most

4:56

of the other Republican primaries, in fact

4:58

probably all of them, she

5:00

hasn't managed to win and in those

5:03

circumstances I think it is legitimate to

5:05

say to her what is

5:08

your pathway? What are you telling us? Exactly

5:10

if she can't win here where can she

5:12

win? And that is a question that her

5:14

campaign will not only be asking themselves it's

5:17

crucially a question that her donors will be

5:19

asking. She has spent millions of dollars already

5:21

in Iowa and in New Hampshire. That's where

5:23

she sunk most of her time and most

5:25

of her money and obviously she has been

5:28

defeated in both states. Who is going to

5:30

be writing large checks for her now to

5:32

be paying for the advertising and the campaigning

5:34

in the states yet to come if

5:37

it doesn't look like she can actually defeat

5:40

Donald Trump in any single one of them

5:42

and remember the next state to vote in

5:44

a month's time is South Carolina. South

5:47

Carolina voters don't want

5:50

a coronation. They want an election.

5:58

And we're gonna give them one. Her

6:01

home state, the state where she was

6:03

a two-term governor. You might think that

6:05

would give her a great advantage. Well,

6:07

that is not what the polls suggest.

6:10

The conservative Republicans there really do seem

6:12

to be backing Donald Trump, as are

6:14

many of the South Carolina Republican politicians.

6:17

So if Nikki Haley did really badly there

6:19

in her own state, that would be so

6:21

deeply humiliating, I think, that it could really

6:23

poison her political prospects for the future. So

6:25

I think that really does need to give

6:27

her pauses to whether she's going to carry

6:29

on and fight into that state. All right.

6:32

So you have to wonder what is making

6:34

her decide to stay in if she does.

6:36

And she could change her mind, just like

6:38

Ron DeSantis did last week. But maybe it's

6:40

the fact that she is the last person

6:42

standing, that she's the last hope for people

6:44

who don't want Donald Trump to be the

6:46

nominee. And they might be willing to spend

6:49

a little more just to keep the glimmer

6:51

of a possibility that Donald Trump might not

6:53

get the nomination, or that Donald Trump might

6:55

get struck by a bolt of lightning, or

6:57

collapse in a heap, or some new revelation

6:59

in his criminal trials could put voters over

7:01

the edge. And that keeps her

7:03

churning along as essentially the alternate

7:06

to the Republican nomination who could

7:08

step in in case the winner

7:10

isn't able to fulfill their duties,

7:13

like the winner of a beauty

7:15

pageant. I'm fascinated by this argument,

7:17

Anthony, Justin. If we play it

7:20

out, in order for Nikki

7:22

Haley to remain in this contest just

7:24

in case something happens that means Donald

7:26

Trump is no longer able to run,

7:28

and the court cases are the obvious

7:31

example, that's going to be really

7:33

late this year. We know these court cases are

7:35

likely to be delayed because of all the appeals

7:37

that are going to the Supreme Court. So we

7:39

could be talking about May, June,

7:41

July, maybe even later before this mysterious

7:43

incident will occur that will stop Donald

7:45

Trump from running. Nikki Haley can't really

7:47

think she's going to stay in the

7:49

race for that long. I mean, she

7:51

can't stay in it past Super Tuesday

7:53

at the beginning of March at this

7:55

rate, I wouldn't think. She also needs

7:57

to notice something, doesn't she, which Donald...

8:00

Trump has pointed out already, and a lot

8:02

of other people are pointing out who are

8:04

not so party-priest, as it were, in these

8:06

matters, which is that it is unique in

8:08

modern times when an

8:10

incumbent isn't running for the Republican candidate

8:12

to win in Iowa and New Hampshire.

8:14

I mean, it is. Let's not take

8:16

it away from him. It is an

8:18

extraordinary achievement, and particularly for a guy

8:21

who, a year or so ago,

8:23

was down, if not

8:25

out. It is a historic achievement. Democrats have

8:27

done it before, but a Republican has never

8:30

managed to do that who's not

8:32

an incumbent. Of course, Donald Trump

8:34

isn't your ordinary non-incumbent politician running

8:36

for president. He is a former

8:38

president, and that gives him a

8:40

certain leg up. But

8:42

it is still, it has to be

8:45

acknowledged that Donald Trump, this

8:47

victory, is making history, and it's helping

8:49

to secure the nomination for Trump going

8:51

forward. And it's worth saying

8:53

that the Biden campaign, just as it were

8:55

in Iowa, very quick to

8:58

salute Donald Trump, that's possibly the wrong word, but

9:00

to make it very plain to their supporters, and

9:02

indeed to try to make it plain to the

9:05

nation more widely. Hello, folks.

9:07

It's time to focus. Donald

9:09

Trump is the presumptive nominee. He is

9:12

the person we're going to be up

9:14

against. And for two reasons.

9:16

Number one, they think Trump is

9:18

beatable, and they've thought that all along.

9:21

But number two, it's the first time since

9:25

the 19th century that you've had

9:27

a president facing

9:29

in a presidential race, if it is

9:31

to be Trump, and it looks as

9:33

if it is, that you've had a

9:35

president facing in a presidential race, a

9:38

former president who he has beaten, if I

9:40

can put it that way. So you've got, on

9:43

the Democrat side, a zest

9:46

for this battle. So the White

9:48

House says, in spite of

9:50

being behind in quite a few of the key

9:52

states, according to the opinion polls, but there's a

9:54

long way to go. But also this kind of

9:57

sense that actually Donald Trump is not going to

9:59

be any... able to avoid running

10:01

on his record as well.

10:04

And once Americans start to focus on that,

10:06

and once the conversation goes to that, then

10:08

it really is a much more open race.

10:11

Yeah, and Donald Trump clearly wants to take the

10:13

fight to Joe Biden, but let's talk for a

10:15

moment about Donald Trump's victory speech

10:17

tonight. She didn't win, she lost.

10:19

And you know, last week we

10:21

had a little bit of a

10:24

problem. And if you remember, Ron

10:26

was very upset because she ran

10:28

up and she pretended

10:30

she won Iowa. And

10:33

I looked around, I said, didn't she come in third?

10:35

Yeah, she came in third. And

10:37

then I looked at the polls, she was talking about most

10:40

winnability, who's going to win, and I had one put up.

10:42

I don't know if you see it, but I have one

10:44

put up. We've won

10:46

almost every single poll in the last

10:48

three months against Crooked Joe Biden, almost

10:51

every poll. And she doesn't

10:53

win those polls. It was

10:55

very different from the sharp,

10:57

focused, magnanimous speech he gave

11:00

in Iowa last Monday. He got up

11:02

on the stage and he immediately lashed

11:04

out against Nikki Haley. You could tell

11:06

he was just seething at the fact

11:08

that Nikki Haley wants to stay in

11:10

this race, that she

11:12

wasn't willing to concede. He complained about the

11:14

fact that she gave a victory speech even

11:16

though she didn't win, which is kind of

11:18

rich coming from Donald Trump. I

11:22

was struck by the difference in tone

11:24

and how kind of off message Donald

11:26

Trump was tonight. What did you all

11:28

think? I thought it was bitter and

11:30

mean-spirited, to be perfectly honest, when he

11:32

should be celebrating a victory. He was

11:34

surrounded by other candidates who pulled out

11:36

of the race and endorsed them. Right

11:39

on the stage there, he had the

11:41

North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, he had

11:43

the South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, he

11:45

had Vivek Ramashwami, whom he even let

11:47

speak, gave him the microphone for a

11:49

few minutes. So he's got all

11:52

of these defeated rivals at

11:55

his feet, so to speak,

11:57

and he was just mean.

12:00

towards Nikki Haley. I mean, okay, they're rivals, but you

12:02

don't have to be nasty about it when you're ahead.

12:05

I wonder if he was a bit prickled

12:08

by basically being called senile by Nikki Haley,

12:10

which he kind of has been in a

12:12

much more pointed way in recent times. So

12:15

he confused or appeared to

12:18

confuse Nancy Pelosi, the former

12:20

Democratic Speaker of the

12:22

House, with Nikki Haley in a

12:24

speech recently. And he referred again

12:26

and again to Nikki Haley

12:28

when it seemed as if he meant

12:31

Nancy Pelosi. And she drew attention to

12:33

that. And indeed, the Biden White House

12:35

used it in an advertisement. I

12:37

just wonder whether part

12:39

of the reason why that speech

12:41

was so mean, Sarah, is that

12:43

he does feel personally quite vulnerable

12:45

when it comes to the accusations

12:47

of senility, which of course he

12:50

and other Republicans have been leveling

12:52

at Joe Biden. Yes, it

12:54

would be a weak point for him given how

12:56

much he uses that as a weapon against Joe

12:58

Biden, who is after all only four years older

13:00

than him. And it's not the only slip that

13:02

he's made. I mean, if you wanted to put

13:04

together a list of speeches and moments

13:06

in which Donald Trump had confused Joe Biden

13:08

with Barack Obama, I think it's a sign

13:11

that this is going to get nasty. I

13:13

mean, if he is riled by that, then

13:15

he will have Barb's going straight back at

13:17

Nikki Haley up until now. You know, it

13:20

was mostly Ron DeSantis that he was attacking

13:22

Ron DeSantis, but he says he's retired that

13:24

nickname now that Ron DeSantis has

13:26

pulled out. He hasn't given both barrels

13:29

to Nikki Haley yet. He calls her

13:31

bird braid. And he

13:33

has on social media been calling her

13:35

all sorts of different names, different versions

13:37

of her first names. He calls her

13:39

Nimrada and Nimbra, all of

13:41

which are deliberate misspellings of her given

13:44

first name, even though she's always gone

13:46

by her middle name, Nikki. But I

13:48

think you're going to see a lot more of

13:51

that stuff coming out of the Trump camp if

13:53

Nikki Haley is determined to carry on. Can I

13:55

just say here in the worldwide headquarters, Marianna Spring

13:57

has failed to turn up, which frankly,

13:59

we all. to forgive her because it is the middle of

14:01

the night here. The middle of the night is my day

14:04

job. I'm broadcasting a few hours time in Britain. But Marianna,

14:06

who works 24-7, is

14:08

not working 24-7 in the office today. We're going

14:10

to forgive her that she is though just back

14:12

from the US. But she has sent us her

14:15

reaction because she does work 24-7, so she can

14:18

resist a little bit of broadcasting. She

14:20

has sent us her reaction to what

14:22

she was seeing online, which of course

14:24

is increasingly crucial to all of

14:27

this in the build up to New Hampshire. Nikki

14:29

Haley is someone who, on TikTok in particular,

14:32

and I've chatted about this before, really has

14:34

started to gain quite a lot of traction

14:36

and quite a lot of support and positivity.

14:38

But now, you know, she's very much found

14:40

herself the prime target for the pro-Trump supporters

14:42

on social media. And that is not an

14:44

easy thing to be. And I think it's

14:46

really interesting the way that this kind of

14:48

seemingly organic content is almost fan content. It's

14:50

like being fans of a pop star or

14:52

of a celebrity. And instead, you know, they're

14:54

fans of Donald Trump and they go after

14:56

people in the same way that kind of

14:58

Taylor Swift fans or One Direction fans back

15:01

in the day, for any of you listeners

15:03

who are the same age as me, would

15:05

kind of go after the girlfriends or boyfriends

15:07

of different pop stars. It all feels quite

15:10

a lot like that. There's also been, as

15:12

ever, in the land of misinformation, some misinformation

15:14

and disinformation potentially. There have been various kind

15:16

of allegations being made about Trump's health, people

15:18

kind of analyzing photos of him in the

15:21

same way they do Biden. And we

15:23

were talking about this in the Iowa episode,

15:25

but it was interesting that quite a lot

15:27

of people have taken to starting to dissect

15:29

the way he appears, what he looks like,

15:31

the way he behaves to suggest he's ill

15:33

in some way, although, you know, we don't

15:35

currently have evidence to support that. Also,

15:38

when we did our America predictions, our

15:40

time capsule for the election, I put

15:42

in my one or one of my

15:44

ones I put in was that I

15:46

thought that AI generated audio would be

15:48

the most effective way of deceiving people

15:51

around this election more so than video,

15:53

because it's something I've investigated before over

15:55

here in the UK. And surprise, surprise,

15:57

our first example of it around this

15:59

election. seems to have appeared our first

16:01

convincing example. There were some robo calls being

16:03

made to voters in New Hampshire in

16:06

relation to Joe Biden suggesting that Joe Biden

16:08

was telling them not to go out and

16:10

get involved in kind of any democratic voting

16:12

process on Tuesday and it sounded

16:14

like Joe Biden and it used lots of his kind

16:16

of phrases and for that reason some people did genuinely

16:19

seem a bit taken in by it but Joe

16:21

Biden's campaign and others linked to it have very

16:23

quickly condemned it said that this is really harmful

16:25

that they didn't generate this audio they don't know

16:28

who did. I think this is an example

16:30

of where it hasn't caused loads of real-world harm

16:32

or really had much impact but it shows us

16:34

how easy and quickly those tactics can be deployed

16:36

and that's certainly something I'll be talking to you

16:39

about America's over the next few months and that

16:41

will be in that panorama I was telling you

16:43

about which you can wait and hear more about

16:45

in March. So I think that's everything from me.

16:48

Bye guys. That's really interesting isn't

16:50

it and talking of robo calls I had

16:52

a few fascinating conversations with voters here in

16:54

New Hampshire who said that they were absolutely

16:56

sick of getting them from Nikki Haley's campaign

16:59

they were getting flyers through the door a

17:01

different one every day for a week they

17:03

said I had people showing me all the

17:05

missed calls on their phones from the numbers

17:07

that were coming from the Haley campaign you

17:09

know often people think you need more money

17:11

and more exposure in a campaign in order

17:13

to win votes she went a bit over

17:15

the top in New Hampshire I think because

17:17

a lot of voters said it really put

17:19

them off. Okay let's turn to the future

17:21

the immediate future are we saying

17:24

definitely at this stage and it's 10 past 4

17:26

in the morning here in Britain and I'm a

17:28

few minutes away from rushing off to do my

17:30

day job are we saying this

17:33

is now the nomination sewn up essentially

17:35

Sarah's is that where we are on

17:38

Trump now? I think so I

17:40

mean in as much as we've probably all thought

17:42

from the very beginning that he was going to

17:44

win this nomination I mean I think it's not

17:46

as cut and dried tonight as we may be

17:48

expected it to be but it's really hard

17:50

to see how there's another outcome. Yeah remember

17:52

that we were talking about how Nikki Haley

17:54

had to thread a needle to make this

17:56

a competitive race and that course involved a

17:58

second place finish in Iowa, which

18:00

she didn't get, and a win in New

18:02

Hampshire, and she hasn't got that. And then

18:04

she'd be able to chug into her home

18:06

state of South Carolina with a head of

18:08

steam. She's not doing that. So I

18:11

think barring some sort of major act

18:13

of fate, this is going

18:15

to be Donald Trump's increasingly fast steamroll

18:17

to the nomination. Yeah, you keep talking about

18:19

these major acts of fate, Anthony, and that

18:22

is why I'm sticking to my prediction. It

18:24

won't be Trump and it won't be Biden.

18:27

And I know, you know, the

18:29

seconds are ticking by. I hear

18:31

what you say or what you don't say, but what

18:33

you think. But yeah,

18:35

lots of acts of fate to come. I

18:37

just so many twists and turns. The age

18:39

thing for both of them hangs

18:42

over this, but also just

18:44

the weird kind of volatility

18:46

of the whole situation. Never

18:48

mind the third party candidates

18:50

who come to play, et

18:52

cetera, et cetera. It just feels that the whole

18:55

thing is very much up in the air. And

18:57

I do wonder, this is a peculiar

18:59

election in as much as we seem

19:01

to know early on who the

19:04

people are who are going to be fighting

19:06

it. But we have massive questions about whether

19:08

they can fight it. Justin, I believe that

19:10

there are people who get their news about

19:12

American politics, not first from America, but sometimes

19:15

from the Today program on Radio 4. If

19:17

you're going to give them all of that

19:19

news, you're going to have to go, aren't

19:21

you? Yep. Steam Wireless beckons.

19:23

And I'm looking forward to it. But nice to talk to

19:25

you, both of you. Okay. Moving

19:28

right along. Sarah, I hear that you

19:30

might have landed yet another interesting interview

19:32

for us tonight earlier on

19:34

Tuesday or Wednesday morning for you

19:36

folks in London. You

19:38

spoke with Sean Spicer, who people may

19:40

remember is the former White House press

19:43

secretary star of Dancing with the Stars

19:45

and now host of the Sean Spicer

19:47

show. Yes, he's got his

19:49

own podcast. He has a podcast these days, of

19:51

course. And he was

19:53

really interesting, actually, giving us an insight

19:56

into what he thinks the

19:58

mood will be in the Trump camp tonight. as

20:00

they are enjoying savoring whatever

20:02

they're doing their victory, albeit with

20:05

a degree of bitterness

20:07

towards their rival. But also he was

20:09

really interesting about what he thinks the

20:12

race is going to look like going

20:14

forward and how the matchup with Joe

20:16

Biden is going to go. Thank

20:18

you so much for joining us on America's

20:21

Show. To give us your insights into what

20:23

might be happening inside the Trump camp, how

20:25

will they be feeling tonight? I mean, this

20:27

victory is not exactly a surprise or a

20:29

shock, but what does it do

20:31

winning yet another state do you think? Well,

20:34

I think it starts to coalesce the

20:36

party, the donors, the supporters, and even

20:38

frankly, the media. I was looking at

20:40

some of the DC political media before

20:42

we started, and there's a

20:45

general sense that people are starting

20:47

to say, okay, this is

20:49

pretty final. Nikki Haley may choose

20:51

to fight another day, but I

20:54

don't think anyone's really giving her any

20:56

chance tonight with that opportunity either really

20:58

shocked the system. And the reason just

21:00

for people to understand is that New

21:02

Hampshire really has a high percentage of

21:05

independent voters that participate.

21:07

So someone like Haley,

21:09

who's getting much more

21:11

of her support from

21:13

the more moderate wing and

21:15

frankly, the independent Democratic supporters,

21:18

this was the one place that she could

21:20

show that she could break out other

21:23

much more hardcore

21:26

conservative types going forward in a lot of

21:28

these contests. This was where she had to

21:30

make her stand, and I think it came

21:32

up short. And given that, how do you

21:34

think inside the Trump camp they will be

21:36

feeling this evening? Can you be celebrating

21:39

and feeling victorious when you win a

21:41

contest that you were probably always going

21:43

to succeed in? We've never had an

21:46

election like this in America where you basically

21:48

have a de facto nominee. I mean, Trump

21:50

is running for the

21:52

nomination. He has an infrastructure, a campaign, a

21:55

Data operation that is like an

21:57

incumbent. And So that's very different.

22:00

On an equal playing field, and every time

22:02

someone looks for statistics, it's very difficult because.

22:05

Even. In New Hampshire where there's been

22:07

a lot of comebacks, it's always been

22:09

in the case that a candidate you

22:11

know Hillary Clinton sheath with came out

22:13

Iowa. but then slowly one from like

22:15

seven to five to three to one

22:17

to winning Nikki Haley didn't have that

22:19

momentum. Are the people that were dropping

22:21

out of the race. vapor in the

22:23

Swami Sen Tim Scott or who had

22:25

previously raunch did Rhonda sent us were

22:27

all batting Trump. He had the nom

22:29

that the support going into today on

22:31

and I think that matters. Love This

22:33

is the first time by. The way

22:35

that a candidate has won both Iowa

22:37

and New Hampshire since Nineteen Seventy Six.

22:40

So there's there's ways that you can

22:42

feel good about yourself if you're the

22:44

candidate in the team on. But

22:47

I I I think you know there is

22:49

a as an element of you were supposed

22:51

to win but they haven't They haven't let

22:53

it down yet right? there is no or

22:56

there's nothing where someone he is saying while

22:58

I was really close they they've They've continued

23:00

to meet the ball Expectations bar that was

23:03

set so humans in there and some of

23:05

Donald Trump's rivals a pool that of the

23:07

contest early and Sen Tim Scott, Gov Doug

23:09

bird them as a chromosome. It has been

23:12

campaigning for him here in New Hampshire and

23:14

I see appearing on stage with them this.

23:16

Evening as well. Why

23:19

does it matter to him? The

23:21

seemed to have these people around

23:23

them and giving. Him their

23:25

endorsement, almost pledging their fealty to have

23:27

it it. It looks as though he

23:29

really cares about that. While.

23:32

I would say that it's a two way

23:34

street right there up there because they want

23:36

to show that they support him as well.

23:38

There's nothing I mean vague and on your

23:40

much and Tim Scott stand right behind him

23:42

that that doesn't. Require. By

23:44

any they they endorsed I'm I'm but

23:46

I think they want to show their

23:49

support of him and it looked as

23:51

soon as I spent my whole life.

23:53

Ah in the campaign world I my

23:55

my first campaign thirty years ago. You

23:57

want to show strength. as

24:00

campaign evolves. And so for him

24:02

to show the electorate, it's

24:04

not just that I'm beating her. I've got

24:06

these people who ran against me standing behind

24:09

me saying that I'm the right guy going

24:11

forward that I'm going to win that that

24:13

people who supported them should support me now.

24:16

It sends a very strong signal that people who

24:18

wanted to take him on want to stand behind

24:20

him now and support him going forward. And

24:22

there's a lot of speculation about Nikki Haley's future

24:25

now, whether she will carry on in this race,

24:27

whether she'll make it all the way to South

24:29

Carolina in a few weeks' time. What

24:31

do you think Donald Trump wants? Would he

24:33

like to carry on with this contest because

24:35

then he can continue to have victories and

24:37

continue to have campaign rallies and stay in

24:39

the spotlight? Or would he like to have

24:41

all of this wrapped up so that he

24:43

can actually direct all his

24:46

fire at President Biden rather than having

24:48

to deal with Republican rivals? Well, look,

24:50

South Carolina is 31 days away. It's

24:52

February 24th. You've got a ways

24:54

to go. And I think anybody who's running any

24:56

kind of race or playing a

24:59

game or anything wants it over. You

25:01

want to be declared the winner and

25:03

the victor sooner rather than later. As

25:05

far as Donald Trump that I know, he wants

25:07

this thing done. He wants it over. He wants

25:09

to be declared the winner as soon as possible.

25:12

And then he wants to focus on Joe Biden. So he'll

25:15

just—I mean, he'll still have rallies. He'll still have all

25:17

those events. They'll just be focused on Joe Biden. Now,

25:20

there will be people around the world watching

25:22

what's happening in New Hampshire and saying to

25:24

themselves, how can it be that so many people

25:26

are lining up to vote for a man who

25:29

is facing 91 felony charges? As he

25:31

keeps saying himself at campaign rallies, he's

25:33

got more indictments against him than Al

25:35

Capone had. And people wonder

25:37

how, despite these charges, he's got this

25:39

level of electoral support. But

25:42

I think it's not despite them really, is it?

25:44

It's almost because of all of these court cases

25:46

and charges that he's got such a grandswell of

25:48

support. You're absolutely right, Sarah.

25:51

There's two things. Number one, this

25:53

is the first time in our

25:56

history where you're able to make a huge

25:59

contrast. So Donald Trump can look at

26:01

a voter and say

26:03

domestically, the border was secure. We were

26:06

energy independent, interest rates were lower, inflation

26:08

was lower, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

26:11

All of those things happen. So that's number one. And then to

26:13

your point, these court cases say

26:16

what you will, but I think the Democrats, there's a

26:18

phrase, you know, we use, that they use in Hollywood

26:21

once in a while called Jump the Shark. It means,

26:23

you know, you go too far. You

26:25

look at so many cases, the Alvin

26:27

Bragg case. The statute of limitations has

26:29

expired, right? That's something near and dear

26:31

to our judicial system. He pumped up

26:34

a misdemeanor charge to a felony that

26:36

didn't make any sense. But all of

26:38

these things, as people are looking at

26:40

them, say, okay, this

26:42

is what happens in countries

26:45

that aren't like the U.S., where someone

26:47

uses the system, the judicial system against

26:49

them. And therefore, it benefits them. And

26:51

I honestly think it's strengthened him tremendously

26:54

in the primary. And I think it's going to help him in

26:56

the general as well. A lot

26:58

of voters say to me all the time, and

27:00

I'm not unique. They tell it to pollsters and

27:03

lots of other journalists as well, that the thing

27:05

that really matters to them is the economy. That

27:07

old phrase in American politics, it's the economy stupid.

27:09

That's always the thing that really matters. And

27:12

people blame Joe Biden for rising

27:14

prices, both in the supermarket and

27:16

petrol gas prices over the last

27:18

few years. And it makes people

27:20

who are not even fans of Donald Trump tempted to vote

27:22

for him. But the economy

27:25

is improving. Inflation is coming down, and

27:27

it's a good wee while between now and

27:29

the November election. If the economy does substantially

27:31

improve, is that going to be a real

27:33

problem for Donald Trump, do you think? Potentially.

27:36

But I'll say a couple of things. You

27:38

look at the exit polls, immigration has become

27:40

a big issue as well. That's not getting

27:42

any better. And the Biden administration shows no

27:45

signs of that. Two, the

27:47

Israeli-Hamas conflict is

27:50

something that is maybe not the biggest thing,

27:52

but in a state like Michigan, one of

27:54

the eight states that I talked about, that

27:56

could have huge potential impact That

27:58

Donald Trump. One Michigan by

28:01

ten thousand, seven hundred and three bus

28:03

points to to have a presents. Joe

28:05

Biden Barely one Michigan last time that

28:07

the states it's him play an issue

28:10

like what's happening in how that the

28:12

President's current President Biden is handling. that

28:14

is a major problem for by. but

28:16

getting back to your point I've I've

28:19

always said this when I talk about

28:21

politics in America. people vote on to

28:23

fundamental things the economy and safety and

28:25

they are both got ceilings and so

28:27

what's happening in America right now. Is

28:30

that people are saying well inflation's coming

28:32

down? You should feel better and for

28:34

a lot of Americans, it's just not

28:36

happening there. Still go to the grocery

28:38

store. and yes, maybe eggs came from

28:40

four dollars down to three twenty five.

28:43

With they're still paying more than they

28:45

were three years ago. So you know

28:47

if you look at it like a

28:49

kid going to Ah, I'm going to

28:51

coming home from school and they were

28:53

getting in half. Maybe now they're only

28:55

getting a D is still not good

28:57

and you can rattle off as many

28:59

statistics. You know That's what I think

29:01

the by Nick Biden team is trying

29:03

to do is say you should feel

29:05

better in so you viscerally feel it.

29:07

It doesn't matter what statistic get sore

29:09

you and and and as I said

29:11

it's the economic security and and personal

29:13

security And that's where the border play

29:15

since when people don't feel safe. Then.

29:18

They're gonna vote like they don't feel

29:20

safe. The economy and safety are tied

29:22

together in similar ways in terms of

29:24

how people vote there and got issues

29:26

sterner, statistical and voters looking at To

29:28

Biden and Donald Trump both of them

29:31

as a record in office. The So

29:33

they know what these men are like

29:35

as Presidents I do. You think Bush's

29:37

will perceive the baby? What? what in

29:39

somebody's mind would be the contrast between

29:41

the two. The easiest case for

29:43

down Trump is to compare the four years

29:46

of Trump to the three years or by

29:48

race you. You easily can point to things

29:50

like the border and we have a massive

29:52

set know crisis here. People see this every

29:54

day now. So it's it's social media, it's

29:56

the news media covering it's is the by

29:58

demonstration. Just wanted court case. they. Literally sued

30:00

the state of Texas so that they

30:02

can cut down wire that Texas had

30:04

put up to help secure our the

30:07

border between Texas and Mexico. The By

30:09

Demonstration has lost that argument on safety

30:11

and security. at our southern border. It's

30:13

over. Nothing is better at me. Biden

30:15

himself said sometimes you turn on the

30:17

Tv and everything is bad will no

30:20

kidding. But for those people who say

30:22

well during Trump. The. Policies of

30:24

Donald Trump made my life better, more

30:26

secure. Made. The economy in our

30:28

communities better at it's it's a no

30:30

brainer soon. It has been fascinating.

30:33

Talking to you Thank you so much for joining us

30:35

in America. Always a pleasure sir! Thank you. It's

30:38

interesting to talk to a Democratic strategist

30:41

earlier this evening and she said yes,

30:43

the elections going to be about the

30:45

economy and see what degree of. With

30:47

Sean Spicer, their see focused on abortion

30:49

rather than immigration as the other big

30:51

issue and he said that it the

30:53

Democrats are going to try to make

30:55

Donald Trump. The. Focus of this

30:57

election make it all about putting Donald

30:59

Trump back and the White House and

31:01

thus threat that he would present itself

31:03

in. I think both Sean Spicer and

31:05

strategist I talked to would agree that

31:07

the candid who best makes the other

31:09

tended at the focused weather's Joe Biden

31:12

record or Donald Trump's record from when

31:14

he was President. That is going to

31:16

be the winner because honestly Americans aren't

31:18

really thrilled with either choice. Is often

31:20

said isn't it that any presidential. Election

31:22

is basically a referendum on the incumbent. If

31:25

you have somebody who's sitting in the by

31:27

has looking to get reelected that it's rarely

31:29

a challenge or who wins is often the

31:31

it can. but who loses. But what's so

31:33

different about this election is we have. Two.

31:36

Presidents, both of whom have a record to

31:38

run on. The electorate can make their own

31:40

decision, conduct their own referendum on who they

31:43

thought was better in office and the more

31:45

and more votes. As I speak to, they

31:47

almost all say basically they felt much better

31:50

off when Donald Trump was in the White

31:52

House. They think the economy with stronger, they

31:54

had more money in their pocket and for

31:56

a most of them they don't care how

31:59

hard they have. Way.

32:01

Into Hollywood more Donald Trump. they're prepared to

32:03

new he just because it's not will improve.

32:05

They think their own has almost. So.

32:15

He We've been talking about what has

32:17

been happening in New Hampshire tonight, but

32:19

let's rewind a little bit because there

32:21

there have been developments since the last

32:24

time we Americans did, and we haven't

32:26

yet properly talk about Rhonda Scientists Now

32:28

a former candidates at He drops I

32:30

to the race rather suddenly on Sunday,

32:32

about three o'clock in the after. Then,

32:35

having said when he was defeated in

32:37

Iowa that he intended to carry on,

32:39

he changed his mind pretty swiftly. Arcs?

32:41

maybe his daughters changed his mind for

32:43

him. And he suspended his campaign.

32:46

Many months tasty and I have traveled across

32:48

the country for deliver a message of hope.

32:51

That. The Klein as a choice and that we

32:53

can in fact, Succeed. Again as

32:55

a nation. Nobody worked harder and

32:57

we left it all out on the field.

32:59

Now. Following our second place finish and I

33:02

will we prayed and deliberated on the way

33:04

forward. If there was anything

33:06

I could do to produce a

33:08

favorable outcome, more campaign stops, More

33:10

interviews. I. Would do it. I. Can

33:12

ask our supporters to volunteer their time

33:15

and donate their resources. We don't have

33:17

a clear path to victory. Accordingly,

33:19

I am today suspending my

33:21

campaign. I'm proud to have

33:23

delivered on one hundred percent of my promises.

33:26

And. I was quite remarkable. I

33:28

think the. Glee with which

33:30

this news to has been greasy than

33:32

that's not just among political opponents are

33:34

enemies of around. Dissent is on the

33:36

last right. Us commentators say in the

33:39

middle and unbiased, everybody is marking a

33:41

little bit about the manner in which

33:43

he had to drop high because nobody

33:45

ever really lights dim is that what

33:47

went wrong deeds and can't say I

33:49

think that's certainly one or the reasons

33:51

that he did a very good job

33:53

of you nineteenth of wide right of

33:55

people in their dislike of him and

33:57

I think that reflects that the he.

34:00

Had some problems with was put. It

34:02

does put a rather delicately problems with

34:04

his charisma. never something that I pointed

34:06

out. Snow from the very good. Go

34:08

a few. Remember that you know what.

34:10

I saw him running for reelection as

34:12

Florida Governor the he just didn't have

34:14

the same kind of stage presence. He

34:17

didn't connect with the audience as well

34:19

as many other politicians certainly not as

34:21

well as Donald Trump and I wondered

34:23

if that was going to. Show

34:26

up when he hit the campaign trail

34:28

in Iowa and New Hampshire and elsewhere.

34:30

And it did. I think it's more

34:32

than that though, not just a lack

34:34

of charisma. I think the problem with

34:36

run the Sanders campaign is he ran

34:39

as an alternative to Trump. Someone who

34:41

was almost like Trump had same policies

34:43

as Trump. may be a little more

34:45

so more effective, but republican voters still

34:47

wanted Trump. They had the real thing.

34:49

Why do they want to go with

34:51

a with a a cheap imitation and

34:54

Us? Because those republican. Voters never turned

34:56

away from Trump's and particularly because

34:58

they rallied behind him. Windows indictments

35:00

came down at the beginning of

35:02

year, and they all flocked to

35:04

support him. And all of Donald

35:06

Trump's rivals defended Donald Trump. I

35:09

think that consolidated Donald Trump support.

35:11

And. Made it almost impossible for anyone.

35:13

Why is even a charismatic Rhonda Sadness or

35:15

someone else to dance Donald Trump's standing. And

35:18

so that's why we seen a fairly stable

35:20

race ever since the beginning of the or

35:22

near begin into the Er. Yes, he was

35:24

portraying himself as being from my carbs Trump

35:27

Light And of course as you say, the

35:29

real thing was on offer. am just got

35:31

more and more popular the more he was

35:33

indicted because I'm I'm I'm in. This time

35:36

last year we were all saying all loot

35:38

Donald Trump, the doors, their own candidates in

35:40

the mid term elections. And lots of

35:42

the didn't get elected. Where is Rhonda?

35:44

Scientists had just been related with a

35:46

huge majority in Florida. He looked like

35:48

he was the guy who was bringing

35:50

in votes and Donald Trump was looking

35:53

like a little bit of a loser

35:55

And it was the indictment that turned

35:57

that around for him a bit. And

35:59

then of course he is just such

36:01

a much better campaigner around dissenters. Heat

36:03

is didn't seem to many political skills,

36:05

he wasn't selling different policies, he didn't

36:07

have a distinctive pitch and it was

36:09

I think as that was at Donald

36:11

Trump who said the broader sense this

36:13

program as he needs a personality transplant

36:15

and unfortunately for him they are not

36:17

available yet. Since exactly I know I'll

36:19

be curious to see where Rhonda Sanders

36:21

goes from here obviously still harbors Presidential

36:23

ambitions He will probably end up running

36:26

and Twenty Twenty Eight could very well

36:28

end up running against Nikki Haley and.

36:30

Twenty twenty A because even if Donald

36:32

Trump wins, he wouldn't be eligible for

36:34

another term. which is kind of why

36:36

you seen some sharp elbows between the

36:38

two of them because they know they

36:40

both are. I'm races to com and

36:42

they don't wanna let the other one

36:44

have the upper hand. South will see

36:46

of Rhonda Sanders has able to learn

36:48

from his mistakes, able to become a

36:50

little bit more personable, a make a

36:52

little bit better connection with voters, and

36:54

and come out in another four years

36:56

with a better version of himself He

36:58

was is quite common, For people who have

37:01

lost a one year to come back and

37:03

and claim the nomination for years old, just

37:05

because you drop sides of this point doesn't

37:07

mean that your your marked as a loser

37:09

forever. But by the you're right, Rhonda Sons

37:12

would have to reinvent his political personality quite

37:14

significantly to make a success of it. So

37:16

runs and is when he bowed out of

37:18

the race as he did. Tip: Is

37:21

kept to Donald Trump and die as

37:23

give him his endorsement even as he

37:25

took a few slides at Nikki Haley

37:27

on the way out. Now. It's

37:29

clear to me that a majority of Republican

37:31

primary voters wanted to donald Trump another chance.

37:34

They. Watch his presidency get stymied

37:36

by relentless resistance. And. They see

37:38

democrats using lawfare this day to attack

37:40

him. Wife. Had disagreements with

37:42

Donald Trump such as on the

37:44

Corona virus pandemic and his elevation

37:46

of Anthony Fauci. Trump. Is superior

37:49

to the current incumbent Joe Biden. That.

37:51

Is clear. I. Signed a pledge

37:53

to support the Republican nominee and I

37:56

will honor that plugs. Yes, My

37:58

endorsement because we can't go back. The

38:00

old Republican guard of yesteryear.

38:02

Or repackaged formed of yeah it

38:04

is a bit of a surprise

38:06

in some ways. The Here: I'm

38:09

endorsing Donald Trump given what a

38:11

had to say just over a

38:13

week ago. You can be the

38:15

most worthless republican in America, but

38:17

if you kiss the ring he'll

38:19

say you're wonderful. You can be

38:21

the strongest, most dynamic are successful

38:23

republican and conservative in America. but

38:25

have you don't says that ring

38:27

than outside of sassy you know

38:29

what you deserve A nominee that's

38:31

gonna put you. First, not himself, and

38:34

that does bring as to an excellent

38:36

question that we've had from Jane in

38:38

Edinburgh. Fellow. Americans saying hot

38:40

in here from Edinburgh d The

38:43

candidates. T are dropping out of the

38:45

Republican Nice soft to endorse one and

38:47

two people. They have been slacking off

38:49

months. I. Can only confirm

38:51

everyone's worst assumptions about politicians.

38:54

So. No attended his don't have to

38:56

endorse are one of the people they've

38:58

been sliding off or four months are

39:00

all those if you recall. When all

39:03

of these Republican candidates participated in the

39:05

debates earlier this year and they had

39:07

to sign a pledge. Sure, ras the

39:09

sign a pledge saying that they would

39:12

support the eventual nominee of the parties

39:14

said they were going have to fall

39:16

in line at one point or another

39:18

by this if they didn't have to

39:21

endorse any one of before the nominee

39:23

was decided. Or I think in

39:25

Donald Trump's case, are all of the

39:27

other candidates realize where this train was

39:30

headed? And if they didn't get on

39:32

board the Donald Trump train, they were

39:34

going to get run over by it?

39:36

So that's why they swallow their pride

39:38

and signed up for for yet another

39:40

Trump Presidential election campaign. Yeah, I

39:43

mean it's one thing to endorse at one

39:45

of your rivals. and of course that does

39:47

happen in the normal course of things. acknowledged

39:49

you want guide your supporters at to get

39:52

to where you think that they ought to

39:54

go but the way in which these candidates

39:56

been lining up I'm physically lining up behind

39:58

Donald Trump on say I mean I do

40:01

know I just stick it in a looks

40:03

a little desperate on his encountered a. It

40:05

does, but I remember back. And

40:07

twenty sixteen I saw people like Marco

40:10

Rubio and Ted Cruz after being bullied

40:12

old by Donald Trump. They all eventually

40:14

lined up the swallow their pride and

40:17

offered a lavish praises of Donald Trump.

40:19

It's it's It's a reality that

40:21

is not just Donald Trump they're afraid

40:23

of, but as Donald Trump's voters and

40:26

an acceptance of the fact. an acknowledgement

40:28

of the fact that Donald Trump's

40:30

voters are the ones who control this

40:32

parties and they go were Donald Trump

40:35

says. And if they aren't on the

40:37

right side, they have no political future

40:39

within the party. All. The questions

40:41

are coming from Scotland today I am pleased

40:43

to say and we've got another one here

40:46

from Tulsa. Hulu. America's at

40:48

Steve from Glasgow and the

40:50

Uk by question is. What?

40:52

Is the lead to speeds by whites

40:54

are normally can put themselves forward to

40:56

be the Republican candidate for the Twenty

40:58

Twenty Four Presidential race. A. See,

41:00

some companies have less twenty six thousand

41:03

pesetas by the so run. I'm not

41:05

a C runs for Empire to think

41:07

about half as any. Well. I

41:09

think that ship has sailed. Certainly

41:11

add republican nomination process of most

41:13

of the deadline does not all

41:15

of the deadlines and upset but

41:17

they they passed that this raises

41:19

is going out and Donald Trump

41:21

as as got locked up. Now

41:23

a question of whether someone like

41:25

Liz Cheney decides to run as

41:27

an independent as a third party

41:29

candidates in the Presidential election in

41:31

November. The general like since well

41:33

there's still deadlines that are ahead

41:35

for that of back to see

41:37

people like Robert Kennedy. Jr still fighting

41:39

to get on the ballot. I think he's

41:41

only on the ballot in Utah right now,

41:44

but they're still deadlines ahead that they can

41:46

qualify for and a lot of those deadlines

41:48

don't sit tolls the summer, but it is

41:50

a high bar to reach list any would

41:52

have to get signatures and and we're talking

41:54

about tens of thousands or more of a

41:57

signatures in certain states, each state has different

41:59

rules on getting. The ballot it

42:01

is A as A monumental.

42:03

A logistical challenge to try to get

42:05

on enough states to be a viable

42:08

candidates. And that takes money. And that

42:10

takes time. And that takes name recognition.

42:12

Liz Cheney has name recognition, I suppose

42:15

among some she has a fair amount

42:17

of time. But does she really have

42:19

the money to pull it off? And

42:22

does it? Does any candidate, any third

42:24

party candidate have the money to pull

42:26

it off? That's what makes this. They

42:28

did American politics to do awfully that

42:31

it is not talking of potential alternate

42:33

candidates. I'm hearing that it might

42:35

be really quite soon that we hear

42:37

that to Manson is the ninth as

42:39

the No Labels third party candidate Am

42:41

is he is. Obviously we'll talk about

42:43

that. much greater detail And another episode:

42:46

Net No Labels. That organization that says

42:48

you know a way wants to stand

42:50

between the democrats and Republicans. They've already

42:52

done a lot of works of getting

42:54

onto the ballots a different state, so

42:56

V or anybody else who who runs

42:58

for hims ought to be okay with

43:00

that. A tell you what though entity

43:02

people keep asking mail. The Time And I don't know

43:04

the answer to this. Is something were

43:07

to happen god forbid to Jill Biden

43:09

and for health reasons, he was completely

43:11

unable to run. How late

43:13

can it be that the democratic party

43:15

picking on a candidate by whatever means

43:17

they do so and get the right

43:19

name on the ballot by for date

43:21

will actually say Camelot Race or whomsoever

43:23

on the ballot instead of voters going

43:25

in and having to take a box

43:27

or to biden Who might possibly be

43:29

the late to biden or their ballot

43:31

in deadlines? Valid name deadline to each

43:33

day that each state is different but

43:35

most of those com in the fall

43:37

you have remember this early voting In

43:39

a lot of these states of people

43:41

start casting their ballots. In October, even

43:43

though the elections not until November, I

43:46

said the deadlines would fall before that.

43:48

So we're looking at September or thereabouts

43:50

for a lot of these different states.

43:52

Obviously, it's a challenge that that a

43:54

party would have to face to pick

43:56

who the next candidate and replace Mccann

43:58

there would be. if it happens before

44:01

a national convention. Well, I would be

44:03

delegates. So that convention who might ultimately

44:05

decided if it happens after the conventional

44:07

could be the running mate who steps

44:09

in and runs at the top of

44:11

the ticket instead. and they find a

44:14

new vice presidential nominee south. This is

44:16

uncharted ground. By and large we have

44:18

it. Had something like that happen in

44:20

American politics and modern political history. Certainly

44:22

Spot A would die. It would be

44:24

an interesting thing. the game out and

44:26

it could happen as long as it

44:29

doesn't get too close. To that election

44:31

Day deadline. If you've got any questions,

44:33

you can always get us on what's

44:35

up. Plus Four four three Three Zero,

44:38

One Two Three Nine for A To

44:40

America The Bbc.kudos Uk or use the

44:42

hashtag Americans on Social Media. Hard to

44:45

Sarah. Guess you and I are both heading back

44:47

to Washington, D C now Cs and basically we

44:49

don't know if we're going to be going to

44:51

Charleston, South Carolina and a few weeks time or

44:54

not. I mean I can. I vote we are

44:56

at partly because I enjoy these things but also

44:58

designed so itself That very about says this couple

45:00

of nice restaurants I met. Looking forward to visiting.

45:02

I've been there for years, but it may be

45:05

that the contest is over by. that says, I

45:07

think loyal listeners know I love South Carolina. it

45:09

as a vacation and political hotspot for me, but

45:11

I will laws the forward to talking to America

45:14

after. Some good bye See ya

45:16

later America America from Bbc News.

45:18

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45:21

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