0:00

This is the BBC. The

0:30

story of Hollywood's greatest leading man, Cary

0:33

Grant. Unbox BritBox and escape to the

0:35

best of British TV. Stream

0:38

with a free trial at britbox.com. Ryan

0:41

Reynolds, hear from It Mobile! I'm proud to offer

0:43

premium wireless for just fifteen dollars a month.

0:45

And I'm proud that we have thousands of five

0:47

star reviews from customers like Dan De in

0:49

New York who writes i am satisfied customer how

0:51

can this only be fifteen bucks? He wrote it

0:54

in all caps. I need you to feel like

0:56

he feels it. I hope I do that just

0:58

as yeah. And I hope that you try

1:00

Mint to at Mint mobile.com. Slash switch from

1:02

payment of forty five dollars for three months

1:04

required new subscribers. Only thing you for twelve

1:06

months to like in additional taxes. Even restrictions

1:09

apply. The Mint Mobile. Dot Com. Being

1:30

Elderly Man with a Poor Memory. devastating

2:00

for Joe Biden because the decision is

2:03

not to prosecute him because

2:06

of that phrase, because he is

2:08

a well-meaning elderly man with a

2:11

poor memory. That, the

2:13

lawyers say, is how he would come across

2:15

to a jury so there is

2:17

no point in prosecuting him. And

2:19

that, of course, raises in the minds,

2:22

not just of his opponents, but of

2:24

many, many Democrats already shaking about

2:26

whether or not this man should be

2:28

reelected in the autumn and should be

2:31

standing in the autumn. The ramifications of

2:33

all of this, which seem for Joe

2:35

Biden to be pretty gloomy and seem

2:37

for American politics to be pretty

2:40

huge, are coming up in

2:42

this emergency edition of America. America.

2:46

America from BBC News. Let me

2:48

start off with two words. May

2:52

in America. I'm not running for santa here.

2:54

I'm running for president. I did everything right

2:56

and they indicted me. I can chew and

2:58

walk on at the same time. There

3:01

is no indication of aliens

3:03

or extraterrestrial activity. We will fight

3:05

the woke in education. We will fight

3:07

the woke in the businesses. We will

3:10

never ever surrender to the woke mob.

3:12

Nobody should have to go to jail for smoking weed.

3:15

Ryan. Aren't you guys tired

3:17

of having this? So,

3:25

hello and welcome to this emergency edition

3:27

of America's Anthony is on

3:29

the line and will join us in just

3:31

a second. First this

3:33

Sarah Baxter joins us, who is old

3:35

friend of mine used to be the

3:37

Sunday Times's Washington correspondent back

3:39

in the day. Sarah's really nice to talk to

3:41

you. What do you do these days? Hi, Justin.

3:45

Well, these days I'm director of the Marie

3:47

Colvin Center for International Reporting and that's in

3:49

New York. But I obviously keep

3:51

a weather eye on all

3:54

things Washington and political. Right.

3:56

And although you sound English, you are

3:58

as well, aren't you an American? American citizen. I

4:01

am indeed. My mother is from Ohio. Brilliant.

4:03

Okay. Well, that gives

4:06

you plenty of qualifications, both journalistic

4:08

and otherwise, to talk to us

4:10

tonight as it is for me

4:12

here in Britain, because the news

4:14

for Joe Biden, which frankly has

4:16

been pretty grim for

4:18

some time, hasn't it, when it comes

4:21

to what Americans think and what Democrats

4:23

think of his cognitive abilities

4:25

and of his ability to

4:27

stand again for the presidency,

4:29

it's received quite a blow

4:31

in the form of

4:33

a kind of, I mean, it's

4:36

kind of shockingly dismissive,

4:39

almost, this set

4:41

of lines from lawyers about whether or

4:43

not he should be prosecuted. So number

4:45

one, they decide that he shouldn't be

4:47

prosecuted or taking classified documents

4:49

home when he was vice president, when

4:51

he finished being vice president, which on

4:54

the whole, you'd think, oh, hang on

4:56

a second. That's quite good news. But

4:58

my goodness, they are the reasons why

5:00

they decided he shouldn't be

5:02

prosecuted. A pretty grim, aren't they?

5:05

Pretty grim, but they're also almost laughable,

5:07

Justin, when I read what

5:09

their verdict was. I practically choked

5:11

because they so explicit.

5:14

The special counsel, Robert Herr, has

5:16

said that Biden can't be prosecuted

5:18

because if you put him in front of

5:20

a jury, they'll regard him as a sympathetic

5:23

elderly man who with a poor memory, who

5:25

can't remember when his son died, when he

5:27

was a little bit older, as vice president,

5:29

who, you know, is just so dodgy, it

5:32

would be hopeless to put him into court.

5:35

Well, that's all very well, but that's great.

5:37

It means he wouldn't be convicted in a

5:40

court. But does it mean that he's capable

5:42

of being commander in chief and president of

5:44

the most powerful country in the

5:46

world? That's

5:48

the bit that's terrifying now, everybody

5:51

in the Biden White House and

5:53

Democrats are absolutely gassed at this.

5:56

And that particular line about not remembering

5:58

when he was vice president. president and

6:00

when he stopped being vice president. I

6:03

mean, that is really extraordinary, isn't it?

6:06

It's excruciatingly damaging for Joe Biden

6:08

and it's something that's going to

6:11

be used against him time after

6:13

time. Of course, everybody knows that

6:15

he's getting on only recently. He

6:17

couldn't remember. He started talking

6:20

about Helmut Kohl being the leader of Germany

6:22

and Francois Mitterholl being the leader of France.

6:24

Well, that was back in the 80s,

6:26

Mitterholl. And I sat down and I

6:29

said, America's back and

6:31

Mitterholl from France looked

6:33

at me and

6:35

said, you know, how

6:38

long you back for? You

6:44

know, he got him mixed up with Macaw. He

6:46

got Kohl confused with Merkel. But those kinds of

6:49

things can be laughed off as,

6:51

oh, just a bit of misspeaking.

6:53

But when the special counsel from

6:55

the Justice Department, a Republican appointee,

6:57

I should say, but even so,

7:00

says that he can't really remember

7:02

what the time of day is,

7:04

that's very serious indeed. And yet,

7:06

as I said, almost comic in

7:08

its brutality. It's not Anthony or bring

7:10

Anthony in on this. Do we know

7:12

what the White House is making of all of

7:14

this, Anthony? Have they got a kind of defense

7:17

of him or are they trying to change the

7:19

subject as they have done previously when

7:21

his age comes up? Do we

7:23

know what line they're going to take? You

7:25

know, the first thing that Joe Biden said

7:27

today in comments to Democrats who were at

7:30

this retreat in Leesburg, Virginia, which is a

7:32

little outside of Washington, D.C., was that the

7:34

case was closed and that's good news and

7:36

everyone applauded. Now, addressing the

7:39

bigger story out of this, the

7:41

conclusion by the special counsel that

7:44

Joe Biden would be a

7:46

sympathetic defendant on the stand in

7:48

any attempt to prosecute him because

7:50

he's a daughtering old man. It's

7:54

interesting to see in that report itself,

7:56

there was a letter from Biden's counsel,

7:59

Richard S. Sauber trying to

8:01

get the special counsel

8:03

to not include this material in

8:05

the report. He said that we

8:08

do not believe that the report's

8:10

treatment of President Biden's memory is

8:12

accurate or appropriate. He called the

8:14

language highly prejudicial, describing a commonplace

8:17

occurrence that a witness could

8:19

not recall years old events. And those

8:21

those kind of comments that you just

8:23

relayed in this special counsel report have

8:26

no place in the

8:28

special counsel document. So it

8:30

is interesting. They're saying these are hers

8:34

conclusions. This is

8:36

his presentation of why Joe Biden

8:39

may be sympathetic. But that's all there is.

8:41

Although I will add that they did cite

8:44

specific instances of Joe Biden not being able

8:46

to recall things like when his son died

8:48

or when he was vice president as supporting

8:50

evidence for why they included it in the

8:52

report. Do we know much about

8:54

this guy, Robert Herr? I mean, is he a

8:56

Republican? Is he an enemy of Joe Biden? Is

8:59

there any kind of sense that these

9:01

incredibly damaging things that he's saying come

9:04

from some kind of political animus? I

9:06

think that this is exactly what Democrats will be

9:09

now digging into and doing a hell of a

9:11

lot of opposition research into. One

9:13

leading Democrat has said, look, this basically

9:16

amounts to a hit job on Joe

9:18

Biden by somebody really acting on behalf

9:20

of Donald Trump within the Justice

9:22

Department. So, you

9:24

know, this is really I mean, it's

9:27

such a wounding verdict that everybody's looking

9:29

for a way out. And the other

9:31

thing that they're pointing out is that

9:33

all these interviews happened the day after

9:35

the Hamas attacks

9:37

on Israel on October the 7th. And

9:40

that perhaps his mind was on more

9:43

statesmanlike things such as what

9:45

on earth is going on in the Middle

9:47

East. But it's not very comforting to think

9:49

that he was handling a Middle East crisis

9:51

at the same time as not really mumbling

9:54

his way through an interview. It's reminiscent

9:56

of what we saw with Donald Trump and the way

9:58

he was keeping his... classified documents

10:00

after he was president in Crete, in

10:02

a bathroom in Mar-a-Lago. I mean, the

10:05

look is just not good, and those

10:07

photos are good, and those are visual

10:09

evidence that I think people can relate

10:11

to, a box full of classified documents

10:14

about Afghanistan sitting in his garage next

10:16

to exercise equipment. Looks like anybody's garage.

10:18

I think Americans can identify with a

10:20

cluttered garage, but they don't have classified

10:22

documents that they have in their possession.

10:25

I will say Robert Herg, he was

10:27

appointed to be a U.S.

10:29

attorney by Donald Trump in 2017, a

10:33

U.S. attorney for the District of

10:35

Maryland. So he also worked in

10:37

Donald Trump's Justice Department, and he

10:39

resigned from his position as

10:42

a U.S. attorney when Joe Biden

10:44

took office, shortly after Joe Biden

10:46

took office, as is normal for

10:48

political appointees. It is

10:50

typical for them to all resign from their office

10:53

when a new president from a different party comes

10:55

in. So, yes, he's a political appointee by Donald

10:57

Trump, but he was also picked

10:59

by Merrick Garland, Joe Biden's attorney general,

11:01

to do this job, and they wouldn't

11:04

pick, you would think, a partisan hack,

11:06

an enemy of Joe Biden's to fulfill

11:08

this position. Yeah, it's

11:11

an extraordinary situation. I

11:13

think Merrick Garland deciding that this guy was

11:16

going to be OK despite being a Trump

11:19

appointee was a sort of act of

11:21

faith by Democrats that they were being

11:23

super bipartisan, and it's really come back

11:25

to bite them. Now, of course, Donald

11:27

Trump says crazy things all the time

11:30

as well. I mean, he muddled up

11:32

Nikki Haley, his leading opponent

11:34

for the presidential nomination, with Nancy

11:36

Pelosi. I mean, even today, Donald

11:39

Trump was saying nutty things

11:41

about Nancy Pelosi, blaming her

11:43

for being responsible for the

11:45

insurrection. And he used those words at

11:48

the Capitol on January 6th. Information,

11:50

all of the evidence, everything deleted and

11:52

destroyed, all of it, all of it,

11:54

because of lots of things like

11:56

Nikki Haley is in charge of security.

11:59

We offered her 10. 10,000 people, soldiers.

12:03

Donald Trump gets a pass on saying crazy

12:05

things in a way that Joe Biden doesn't.

12:07

It's just so depressing, isn't it, for so

12:10

many Americans. We know from recent polls that

12:12

as many as three quarters, I think the

12:14

last poll I saw, actually

12:16

don't want this matchup to be

12:18

between Biden and Trump, with half

12:21

of all Democrats saying they don't

12:23

want that matchup. As

12:25

you say, Trump tends

12:27

to come out on top in these things

12:29

because he has a vigor, whereas

12:32

Biden plainly doesn't. But the idea

12:34

now that these are two elderly

12:36

men and that they shouldn't be

12:38

in this position, and more importantly,

12:40

that the country shouldn't be in

12:42

this position, I really see it

12:45

taking shape in people's minds. But

12:47

what I don't see, Anthony, is

12:49

what anyone does about it. You

12:52

can have all these discussions, and Americans

12:54

are having these discussions around their kitchen

12:56

tables, and Democrats are having

12:58

these discussions behind closed doors. We

13:01

know all of that, but I

13:03

don't see quite where it leads.

13:06

Right. As long as Joe

13:08

Biden still wants to run for president, Joe

13:10

Biden is going to run for president, run

13:12

for reelection. I think the strategy out of

13:15

the White House could be to say, okay,

13:17

well, at least there's not going to be

13:19

a court case against him or charges filed,

13:21

although those charges wouldn't go to trial until

13:24

after Joe Biden was out of office because

13:26

of that Justice Department standing order

13:28

that presidents can't be prosecuted while in office.

13:30

But they're just going to try to wait

13:33

out the storm, and hopefully

13:35

there won't be any other big

13:37

bombshells that call into question Joe

13:39

Biden's competency, and that by November,

13:41

all of this will blow over.

13:43

I think where we might see

13:46

this contribute to an

13:48

important development in this presidential race

13:50

is it might make a third

13:53

party candidate more interested in jumping

13:55

in the race. The door is

13:57

now wide open for... say,

14:00

a no labels candidate to step forward, no

14:02

labels being that independent organization

14:04

that's searching for a third party,

14:07

independent presidential candidate for someone to

14:09

willingly take on that mantle because

14:11

Donald Trump, in their view, is

14:13

clearly not qualified to return to

14:16

the White House. And

14:18

Joe Biden, there's more and more mounting

14:20

evidence that the oldest

14:22

man ever to serve as president right

14:24

now shouldn't be in office

14:27

well into his mid 80s, given

14:30

all of these developments, all of this evidence that

14:32

we're seeing now. I mean, Sarah, what

14:34

do you think comes of all of this?

14:37

Yeah, third party candidate is really a

14:39

good threat to Joe Biden. It's a

14:42

big deal because people are looking for

14:44

an alternative to the president.

14:46

When it comes to Donald Trump, he's got

14:48

about 40% of the vote

14:50

locked down. His base absolutely love him.

14:52

So he's less vulnerable to defections. On

14:55

the other hand, has anybody heard Robert

14:57

F. Kennedy Jr. speak recently? Because he

14:59

sounds like he's more likely to croak

15:01

than Joe Biden. And he's got really

15:04

weird views on Covid-19. Yet

15:06

at the moment, he's polling relatively strongly

15:09

as a third party candidate and

15:11

wounding Biden because, of course, his

15:13

famous father was Robert F. Kennedy,

15:16

a hero for the Democrats. So

15:18

on the name alone, he's going quite well

15:21

at the moment. What

15:23

the rest of this means for Joe Biden, I

15:25

mean, some people in the Democrats are saying, look,

15:28

we just can't keep going with this and hoping

15:30

that he's of Joe Biden lost till the next

15:32

election and beyond. We've got

15:34

to find somebody else. But then you're back

15:36

to the old problem of, well, who

15:38

do you find? Kamala Harris is

15:40

doing better than she has been

15:42

doing. She's found a few issues

15:45

like abortion that she's

15:47

getting some results on. But nobody

15:50

thinks she can beat Donald Trump in a

15:52

head to head match up for president. And

15:54

nobody wants to tell the first African-American

15:57

and Asian female vice president.

15:59

president to step aside and let

16:02

somebody else take over. And maybe

16:04

they would if they could think

16:06

of that somebody else who would

16:08

do better than Kamala Harris. But

16:10

they can't. So the Democrats are

16:12

absolutely stuck with Joe Biden. It's

16:14

embarrassing. I'd say two

16:16

things to add to that. Number one

16:18

with Robert Kennedy Jr. I mean, he's

16:21

toying now, isn't he, with running as

16:23

the Libertarian Party candidate. And the relevance

16:25

as that is, is that the libertarians

16:28

can get him onto the ballot all

16:30

around the United States. So oddball as

16:32

he may be, Sarah, it

16:34

is possible that he does mount a

16:37

real challenge in quite a few places

16:40

and a challenge frankly to both

16:42

candidates, one would assume because it'll

16:44

take people off them both, but just add a kind

16:46

of a sense

16:48

of unknowability to the race,

16:50

which is already pretty unknowable

16:52

and volatile, which I think

16:55

might persuade the Biden people

16:58

to go to him and to say, for goodness sake,

17:00

get out. When I say the Biden people, and this

17:02

is the second point, it's Dr.

17:04

Joe, isn't it? She styles herself. It's

17:06

his wife, and possibly one or two

17:09

other close family members. But you assume

17:11

that if something is going to persuade

17:13

him to go, as Anthony

17:16

was saying, there's no mechanism. There's no

17:18

sort of party mechanism to get him

17:20

to go. But there is a family

17:23

mechanism and a

17:25

desire for him not to be

17:27

humiliated and a desire for his

17:29

place in history to be assured.

17:32

And you do wonder whether they might

17:34

act. And as for the timing and

17:36

whether it leads to Kamala Harris, which

17:38

would be, I think everyone accepts probably

17:40

a disaster against Trump. She could not

17:42

win. But actually, is there a way

17:44

of it not being Kamala Harris, but

17:46

also not being the firing of

17:49

Kamala Harris, as it were, which would

17:51

tear the party apart? And I just

17:54

wonder whether in that

17:56

circumstance, you're looking at not

17:58

a contested, prime But it's

18:00

something that happens later

18:02

on in the year, possibly

18:04

during the summer, when the

18:06

Democratic National Committee, the DNC,

18:09

pretty much would have the chance to

18:11

choose someone and would be forced to

18:13

choose someone and would not choose her.

18:15

And I think with

18:17

people's minds so concentrated then on

18:19

the threat of Donald Trump, assuming

18:21

Trump was by then the Republican

18:23

candidate, I just wonder whether all

18:25

the kind of civil war stuff

18:27

within the Democratic Party might be

18:30

put forward for another day. It's

18:32

certainly possible. I

18:35

wrote a while back that only Jill

18:37

Biden could tell Joe Biden to step

18:39

down, that he's done enough, you know,

18:42

thank you for your service, sir, and all

18:44

the rest. It has to come from his

18:46

wife. But the truth is, recently, she's been

18:48

his most ardent defender, and seems to really

18:51

enjoy being in the White House and believes

18:53

in her husband as the only man capable

18:55

to defeat Donald Trump. So I don't think

18:57

necessarily that Jill's going to be on side.

19:00

I don't think that Democrats can say, come

19:02

on, First Lady, do your bit, tell your

19:04

man to stand down. Whether

19:06

anyone's got the nerve to do it right

19:09

at the Democratic Convention this summer, I don't

19:11

know. Obviously, a lot can happen in

19:14

the next six months, including threats to

19:16

Joe Biden's health. So we'll have to

19:18

see. Right. One one report from a

19:20

special counsel I don't think is going to be

19:22

enough to change the dynamic. Even a damning one

19:25

like this is not going to be enough

19:27

to change the dynamic within the Biden family.

19:29

If his poll numbers totally tank and they're

19:32

already not that great, but he's kind of,

19:34

you know, around the margin of error had

19:36

to head against Donald Trump. If he drops

19:38

down precipitously, maybe that would

19:40

nudge him. But it seems like the ship

19:42

has failed for getting Joe Biden to stand

19:45

down and let someone else go in. We've

19:47

already had the South Carolina primary. We're going

19:49

to have a Super Tuesday here in a

19:51

matter of weeks. He's going

19:54

to start amassing the kind of delegates to go

19:56

to the National Convention that will deliver him the

19:59

nomination. know whether other Democrats

20:01

like it or not. Think

20:03

about how hard it is to take the

20:05

keys to the car away from an

20:08

elderly grandparent or a parent. Now think

20:10

about how hard it would be to

20:12

take the keys to the

20:14

country, to the nation away from

20:16

Joe Biden. It

20:19

is a massive task and the

20:21

potential for disruption, the potential for

20:23

ending up with someone who or

20:25

infighting that would lead Donald Trump

20:28

to a stroll into the White

20:30

House is just too great I think in

20:32

the Democrats' calculations at least at this point.

20:36

I think the Democrats are also

20:38

counting on one thing that in

20:40

actual elections they've actually overperformed expectations

20:42

that people are very worried about

20:44

issues like abortion, they're worried about

20:47

MAGA extremism as Joe Biden calls

20:49

it. Don't get too worried, actual

20:52

elections have gone pretty well for the Democrats

20:54

and that's the ultimate test. I think they're

20:57

going to hang on to Joe Biden for

20:59

as long as they possibly can. Is

21:01

anyone actually convinced by that Sarah, by that

21:04

line? Well I think that's

21:06

what they tell themselves in the

21:08

small hours of the morning when

21:10

they're lying awake at night worrying.

21:13

That's their consolation. Okay, talking of which

21:15

Sarah we'll let you go, you've got other things

21:17

to do and other fish

21:19

to fry, it's really nice of you to

21:21

take the trouble very suddenly at very short

21:23

notice to drop everything and take part in

21:26

an emergency America. Nice to talk to you

21:28

Sarah, great to have you on. Right,

21:31

it was good to talk to Sarah,

21:33

we should stress that the White House

21:35

is saying nothing to see here, at

21:37

least not much to see here, that

21:39

this is actually the end of something

21:42

not the beginning, it is the end

21:44

of the case against Joe Biden. Bottom

21:47

line is the special counsel in my

21:49

case decided against moving forward on any

21:51

charges and this matter is

21:54

now closed. in

22:00

the concerns that many Americans have about

22:02

Joe Biden's age and mental capacity. I

22:05

think the one thing that Joe Biden

22:07

and the Democrats have going for them

22:09

is that it is February. It is

22:11

not October. It is not on the

22:14

eve of the election that this is

22:16

coming out. There is time for them

22:18

to rebound and for Joe Biden to

22:20

prove to Americans that he is capable

22:23

of serving another four years

22:25

in office. And I think

22:28

that is the one thing that they

22:30

hope that they are clingy to, that

22:33

come November when Americans head to the

22:35

polls, at the forefront of their mind

22:37

is not going to be some lines

22:39

that a special prosecutor was appointed by

22:41

Donald Trump put in a report where

22:43

he did not charge Joe Biden with

22:45

a crime. It is going to be

22:47

about things like the economy and immigration

22:49

and abortion. And that is

22:52

where this election is going to be decided. But

22:54

as we said time and time again, there is a long

22:56

time to go between now and November.

22:59

And this may not be the

23:01

end of the concerns and the

23:03

evidence coming out of Joe Biden's

23:05

age and capacity. Yeah.

23:07

And the point being, Anthony, that all of

23:09

those things may well be right. There will

23:11

be other issues that people will vote on.

23:13

But they haven't, it seems to me, in

23:15

the White House, found yet a convincing

23:18

way of rebutting

23:20

the argument that Joe Biden is too old

23:23

to carry on. It is that simple argument

23:25

that you hear time and time again, including

23:27

from Democrats and Democrat supporters and people who

23:30

are being asked to support him, but

23:32

it seems would only do so reluctantly.

23:34

And again and again, you see these

23:36

clips, though, where someone throws a question

23:38

at him about his age or his

23:40

mental capacity, and he kind of bats

23:43

it away. And it is slightly

23:46

defensive, in fact, very defensive often,

23:48

instead of kind of going out

23:50

there and saying to the American people,

23:52

look, here is the deal. This guy is old.

23:54

And yes, he forgets things occasionally. He gets people's

23:56

names wrong, but at least he is not crazy,

23:58

as I was hearing. hearing someone suggest his

24:01

hand in the other day, which you can

24:03

sort of see, can't you? You need to

24:05

have a kind of vigorous way of taking

24:07

this argument and turning it on its head.

24:10

And it just seems to me that

24:12

they're in a defensive crouch about it.

24:14

And things like this event will

24:17

damage him really seriously, unless they

24:19

can find a way of fighting

24:21

their way out of it, surely.

24:24

The argument you can't prove, you can't say,

24:26

well, no, actually, Joe Biden isn't that old

24:28

because he is old. And

24:31

Joe Biden can think on his feet when

24:33

clearly there are times when he stumbles over

24:35

his words and seems to not be able

24:37

to think on his feet. And that is

24:40

the real challenge, and there's no obvious

24:42

solution for it. Come

24:56

to your 2023 work recap. This

24:58

year, you've been to 127 sync meetings. You

25:01

spent 56 minutes searching for files

25:03

and almost missed eight deadlines. Yes.

25:08

2024 can and should sound different. With

25:10

monday.com, you can work together easily, collaborate

25:12

and share data, files and updates. So

25:15

all work happens in one place and

25:17

everyone's on the same page. Go to

25:19

monday.com or tap the banner to learn

25:22

more. There's

25:26

something magical about unboxing. When

25:28

you unbox BritBox, you uncover

25:30

a world of British entertainment.

25:32

Stream the UK's most brilliant

25:34

series, including new and upcoming

25:36

seasons of Shetland, Father Brown

25:38

and Death in Paradise. Plus

25:40

new originals like Payback, Irvin

25:42

Welsh's Crime and Archie, the

25:44

story of Hollywood's greatest leading

25:46

man, Cary Grant. Unbox BritBox

25:48

and escape to the best

25:50

of British TV. Stream with

25:52

a free trial at britbox.com

26:00

And while we have been talking

26:02

about Joe Biden, another major story

26:04

has dropped into our lap. And

26:06

that is the transcript of the

26:08

Tucker Carlson Vladimir Putin interview has

26:10

been released. And for people

26:12

who want to know Vladimir Putin's views

26:14

on the history of Russia-Ukraine relations dating

26:17

back to the 12th century

26:19

AD, this is going to be a real treat

26:21

for you. But it is kind of a muddled

26:23

mess just looking through this, isn't it, Justin? Oh,

26:26

my goodness. Oh, my goodness. It

26:28

starts off with, so as I have both

26:30

got the transcript in front of this,

26:32

and it's us, of course, Tucker

26:34

Carlson desperately trying to get a

26:36

question in because this lecture has

26:38

obviously started and there's what appears

26:41

to be quite a testy exchange

26:43

between the two of them, with

26:45

Putin obviously having expectations of the

26:47

seriousness of this interview from his

26:50

perspective and his ability to

26:52

go through all this historical stuff. And Tucker Carlson

26:54

obviously thinking, oh, my goodness, I need to get

26:56

a news line out of this. So

26:58

that tension that often exists between

27:01

interviewer and interviewee, it's good to

27:03

see, also existed during this weird

27:06

interview. And then when they do get down

27:08

to business, Anthony, I don't know how far

27:10

you've got through it. I mean, there are

27:12

various things. I see at one stage in

27:14

a more kind of Western-style approach,

27:16

Tucker says to him, Tucker Carlson says

27:18

to Putin, who blew up Nord Stream,

27:20

in other words, the Nord Stream pipeline

27:23

was blown up by someone and nobody's ever been quite

27:25

sure who. And Vladimir Putin says,

27:27

you for sure. And Tucker Carlson says,

27:29

I was busy that day. Who

27:31

blew up Nord Stream? You

27:34

for sure. I was busy that

27:36

day. Nate, do

27:39

you have... I

27:41

did not blow up Nord Stream. Thank you,

27:44

though. You

27:48

personally may have an alibi, but the

27:50

CIA has no such alibi. I

27:53

didn't blow up Nord Stream. Thank you, Vladimir Putin. I

27:56

see it's just about understanding. the

28:00

joke says you personally may have an

28:02

alibi, but the CIA has no such

28:04

alibi. So in other words, on

28:08

Nord Stream and on a whole lot

28:10

of other things, including more seriously what's

28:12

going on in Ukraine, Putin again and

28:14

again, doesn't he, Anthony, blames the United

28:17

States and sort of suggests that the

28:19

United States is getting involved in Ukraine

28:21

in order to avoid its

28:23

own problems. And you wonder at

28:25

that stage whether this kind of

28:28

interview does begin to impinge on

28:30

and possibly have an impact on

28:32

American politics. He blames the

28:34

CIA for a lot of things. He

28:36

blames the CIA for meddling in Russian

28:39

internal affairs, for helping to overthrow Russian

28:41

friendly governments in Eastern Europe, which is

28:43

all not new things that

28:45

Vladimir Putin is saying. He's been saying that for

28:47

quite some time. But yeah, it is interesting. He

28:49

says, doesn't the United States have

28:51

other things to worry about, about their border security

28:53

and the economy and everything like that? Don't

28:56

you have anything better to do? You

29:00

have issues on the border, issues

29:02

with migration, issues with the national

29:04

debt, more than

29:06

$33 trillion. You have

29:08

nothing better to do, so you should fight

29:10

in Ukraine. And that plays

29:12

into the domestic debate, like you say,

29:14

that we're having here right now in

29:16

the U.S. about what America's priority should

29:19

be. And the conservatives in

29:21

particular who are opposing continuing USAID to

29:23

Ukraine are saying that money should be

29:25

spent elsewhere, that we should be spending

29:27

it on the border security and on

29:30

American jobs and not on a war

29:32

that is on the other side of

29:34

the world. So he touches upon it.

29:36

But the interview really doesn't focus

29:39

on much of anything. I

29:41

mean, Vladimir Putin's not just answering

29:43

in paragraphs, he is answering in

29:45

full on multi-page essays. So I'll

29:47

be curious to see if Tucker

29:49

Carlson can edit this down to

29:51

something that creates sound bites that

29:54

will be useful for his purposes.

29:56

But it is Vladimir Putin holding

29:58

court just by... the best efforts

30:00

of Tucker Carlson to get some real answers

30:03

like would Russia be happy with the territory

30:05

they already control in Ukraine and would go

30:07

to the peace table with that? And

30:10

Vladimir Putin doesn't really answer that. So

30:12

we'll be poring over these words in

30:15

the coming days, hours. At

30:18

the moment, however, the nuggets that are

30:20

in there are really well buried in

30:22

a sea of verbal detritus. I

30:25

tell you what I get from it, though, I

30:28

don't get the threats that at

30:30

one stage the West was getting

30:32

over and over again from Russians

30:35

either suggesting that they were speaking for

30:37

Putin or that they were closely advising

30:39

him. And that was this threat that

30:42

if you do any more in Ukraine,

30:44

it will bring the world into a

30:46

war and we will be forced to

30:48

use nuclear weapons. And occasionally,

30:51

of course, on Russian TV, people saying, yes,

30:53

we should use nuclear weapons, all that kind

30:55

of talk, possibly at the behest of the

30:57

Chinese, has gone quieter

30:59

in recent months. And

31:02

I don't see it being reinvigorated by

31:04

Putin in this interview. He

31:07

seems to be, I mean, the word charm is not quite the

31:09

right one, but he seems to be on

31:11

a mission, if anything, through all that

31:14

verbiage to kind of reach out to

31:16

America. Wouldn't it be better

31:18

to negotiate with Russia, make

31:20

an agreement, already understanding the

31:22

situation that is developing today,

31:25

realizing that Russia will fight for its

31:27

interests to the end, and

31:30

realizing this actually returned to common

31:33

sense, start respecting our country and

31:35

its interests and look for certain

31:37

solutions? It

31:40

seems to me that this

31:42

is much smarter and more

31:44

rational. And interfere with its

31:46

will to carry on backing Ukraine

31:49

rather than threatening people and threatening

31:51

Americans with mass destruction

31:54

and the world with mass destruction, which

31:56

I suppose possibly the calculation is on

31:58

his part that actually. The

32:00

former is likely to work and no matter,

32:02

probably wouldn't if you're looking for things that

32:04

are going to make you clutch the table

32:06

and and worry that were on the edge

32:08

of World War Three or four. Whatever World

32:11

war right now. Ah, did. There is nothing

32:13

in this interview that supports that. Are

32:16

no matter you know and mapping we probably

32:18

will to call him a day on this

32:20

emergency Edition of America. Awesome. That's quite enough

32:22

nice to discuss, and frankly, in the White

32:25

House I think they'll be much more worried

32:27

about Joe Biden suture than they are to

32:29

Nine is at least and over the next

32:31

few days about you. As

32:43

an American politics sunny question that

32:45

has broken in the last few

32:48

hours is a by Joe Biden

32:50

says teacher does that. Mean

32:53

a special edition of America as they

32:56

say, the end of some American news

32:58

broadcast with Anthony him with me and

33:00

with surpass that earlier on on. many

33:02

many thanks to her unseal later sale

33:04

letters been a heck of a week

33:07

at it's only Thursday. America.

33:10

America. From Bbc News. Thanks

33:12

for listening to America! Asked from

33:14

Bbc News You can subscribe to

33:17

this mod cast on the free

33:19

Bbc Sounds, which is now available

33:21

worldwide. There's

33:29

something magical at the has some. Boxing.

33:32

When. You on thought that box you

33:34

uncover a world of was is

33:36

entertainment seen the Uk. Putting

33:39

things into the new. And upcoming

33:41

season is a Shetland how the burn

33:43

and dancing Cardinals class more originals like

33:45

a That said in those is com

33:47

an artsy the story of Hollywood's greatest

33:50

leading man carried last and of flip

33:52

flops and escaped to the best is

33:54

that is T V stream at a

33:57

seats on. That bookstore com. I'm

34:01

touched your employer from the Global Story

34:03

podcasts. And we talking about the

34:05

world's biggest pop star, Taylor Swift

34:08

and and economic powerhouse That could

34:10

she really swing the Us Presidential

34:13

election? It's a matter of furious

34:15

debate in republican circles. Are they

34:17

on to something? The global. Story

34:20

brings he first takes and smart

34:22

perspectives from Bbc journalist. Around the

34:24

wells signed. Us wherever you get to B

34:26

B C Cuckoo's Nest.