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I'm Gay Brigade House from the

1:14

Global Story podcast. It's two months

1:16

since having a melee known as

1:18

El Loco The Madmen was sworn

1:21

in as Argentina's president, can follow

1:23

through on his promises to/government and

1:25

tame inflation and do Argentinians have

1:27

the patience to see if it's

1:30

the right idea? The Global Story

1:32

brings you fresh takes and smart

1:34

perspective from Bbc journalist around the

1:36

world. find us. Where you get

1:39

your podcasts, Bbc

1:47

Sounds Music Radio Podcasts

1:49

Let's start. With fake news and

1:51

Valentine's because by for are irrelevant at the

1:54

moment, Valentine's Day for obvious reasons of fake

1:56

news as well as is an awful lot

1:58

of about so Nikki Haley. Donald.

2:00

Trump's competitor for the nomination for

2:02

the Republican party for the presidency.

2:05

as we all know distant competitor

2:07

as we know I think legitimately

2:09

delay but nonetheless competitor and she's

2:11

carrying on and carrying on and

2:13

using Valentine's Day to publish what

2:15

was think lakes pretty obviously a

2:17

fake but nonetheless it was a

2:20

fake bombs on from her opponent.

2:22

And. This is what it said. Roses

2:24

are red, Violets are blue. I love

2:26

Dictators and they love me too. Happy

2:28

Valentine's Day! From Donald Trump to Dictators

2:31

around the world, it's it's it's citizens

2:33

of This is as is is not

2:35

the most that subtle. Political? I'm still

2:37

in the world is it? But of

2:39

course fought test Nikki Haley is doing.

2:41

There is pointing at all the times

2:44

that Donald Trump has expressed his admiration

2:46

for dictators like Vladimir Putin, presidency of

2:48

Cyanide, himself, own of North Korea. And

2:50

then we fell in love. Really,

2:54

he wrote me beautiful letters in a

2:56

what can I say? he was one

2:58

point four billion people. With.

3:00

An Iron Hand. We just love

3:02

Moscow could not have been nicer.

3:04

He was so nice and. So. And

3:07

is particularly relevant of course because

3:09

he has been talking about how

3:11

he would encourage Russia to do.

3:14

Whatever it wanted with any Nato

3:16

members whose in his youth hadn't

3:18

paid. Their dues know minutes. slight more complicated

3:20

monetary concept that we can get too late, but

3:22

this is what he's been saying. They.

3:24

Ask me that question One of the

3:26

presidents of of the countries that upsets.

3:29

Will. Sarah if we don't pay and

3:31

were attacked by Russia. Will.

3:33

You protect us. I said you

3:35

didn't pay your delinquents. He.

3:38

Said yes, let's say that happened. Know I

3:40

would not protect you. In fact, I would

3:42

encourage them to do whatever the hell they

3:44

want to get a fan of. pay your

3:46

bills. And we should say as well Donald

3:48

Trump did issue a real. Valentine's.

3:51

Message and. It's kind of sweet. Let's

3:54

listen to a courtesy as ever. Of

3:56

Mike in bring. Deer.

3:58

Malaria. I love

4:00

you. Even. After every single

4:03

indictment, arrest and which ones, you

4:05

never left my side, you've always

4:07

supported me through everything. I wouldn't

4:09

be the man I am today.

4:11

Without your guidance, kindness and month,

4:14

he will always mean the world

4:16

to me millennia from your husband

4:18

with love. Donald. Trump.

4:21

Yeah. Mike's asked us to say hello. To prevail

4:23

First Lady Elizabeth. Sad that I

4:25

find this message enormously entertain, and

4:28

because of course, as ever with

4:30

Donald Trump, it's not absolutely true

4:32

smell. On E S you never less. My

4:34

side we have not seen has at one

4:36

single one of these. court appearance is all

4:38

as a single campaign events he wasn't. By

4:41

side when he announced admiral Other that he was

4:43

running for. President Says not Turned up a single event

4:45

since I think the only time we've seen the two

4:47

of them together. Was at her mother's

4:49

funeral a few weeks ago. Maybe one other

4:51

non campaign. Event at smaller allows us to

4:53

maybe it's. Really a plea for her to join

4:56

him by his side. Yeah. They were

4:58

together some gala Mar Lago but he

5:00

certainly hasn't hit the campaign trail with

5:02

him at all as and her absence

5:04

given the way she campaigned with him

5:06

into the sixteen and twenty twenty has

5:08

been no word. It's kinda thing worth

5:10

we need out here is that this

5:12

was not just a letter that Donald

5:15

Trump sent to Milan yeah, that was

5:17

released publicly. this is Us fundraising email

5:19

that went out to Donald Trump supporters

5:21

and it ended after this Valentine's Day

5:23

asking for them to wish happy Valentine's

5:25

Day to Milan as well and. Then

5:27

I saw button there were they could

5:29

contribute money to Donald Trump's campaign manager

5:31

so too might from Shrewsbury. There

5:34

are no signs of incipient megalomania on by

5:36

which I suppose comes when universe to Donald

5:38

Trump but in a shoutout some him once

5:40

once can be next and anyway if you

5:43

don't run and jump we want to keep

5:45

him happy. So yes and isn't as. We.

5:47

Are all hugely hugely benefiting

5:49

from your husband's of enormous

5:52

skills and the Donald Trump

5:54

area. And i i have you do

5:56

to him as know to cheeky a thing to say

5:58

anyway by the move comes in. The Center

6:00

Valentine's Day message of his own,

6:03

which was an endorsement for President

6:05

Biden apparently to win the Twenty

6:07

Twenty Four election against. America

6:12

America from Bbc News resort all

6:14

the sewers made in America. I'm

6:16

not ready for sainthood here. I'm

6:18

running for president. I did everything

6:20

right and day and guided me.

6:22

I consume and bought some at

6:24

the same time. There is no

6:26

indication of aliens or extra

6:28

terrestrial activity. We will fight the

6:31

world in education. We will fight

6:33

awoke in the businesses. We will

6:35

never ever surrender to the woke

6:37

my mail has after that of

6:39

all right. Coming

6:42

months. Hello

6:49

it is Sarah here am I'm in

6:51

New York City. Where and Donald Trump

6:53

is appearing in court again and

6:55

is Anthony? I'm here in the

6:57

Bbc bureau Washington Dc and is

6:59

just in in the Boss in

7:01

the English West Conference Id to

7:03

talk about as ever the fallout

7:05

from the Her report, the Special

7:07

Counsel's report into Joe Biden which

7:09

basically accused him of being actively

7:11

senile. We will be reading your

7:13

correspondent them Samba of which we

7:15

have had quite a lot and

7:18

Joe Biden joining Tic Toc as

7:20

well. That first we've got to

7:22

talk. About Russia and more specifically, Vladimir

7:24

Putin has been a lot of noose

7:26

around Trump and Putin recently, but the

7:28

big one. Is the Vladimir

7:30

Putin is actually said in a television

7:32

interview that he would rather see a

7:34

Biden presidency. Than another Trump. Once he has

7:36

said that he doesn't think that Joe Biden

7:39

that is sad, too old and older a

7:41

to be president. And that he would rather have him

7:43

in place for this. Is more predictable. This is

7:45

what he said when s journalists ask them

7:47

which president he thought would be better for

7:49

received by. On

7:51

should we offered me he has more

7:53

experience more predictable his nose for politician

7:56

that will work with any you as

7:58

leader who the american people have. Components

8:00

and Leader and Sasha. He

8:02

said the questions around to bidens age.

8:04

And mental stability were not. Rather than he

8:06

said that to the last time he's always

8:09

was three years ago, people were saying it

8:11

than that he was incompetent and he didn't

8:13

see anything like that at all. So he

8:15

seems to be supporting the idea that he

8:17

thinks that Joe Biden is up to the

8:19

job. The question though, is why? Because he

8:21

really. Wants to see to bi re

8:23

elected president. Or because he knows that

8:25

if he was to tell the truth and

8:27

that you'd rather have Donald Trump as president

8:29

the that would hurt Trump's campaign. So weirdly

8:31

in order to help from get into the

8:33

White House he says he wants fighting back

8:35

in the White House. It does. He does

8:38

help from below doesn't there? Because one of

8:40

the key things we've talked about this before

8:42

have you here again and again from from

8:44

supporters his when it comes from international affairs

8:46

he kept safe, he didn't pick fights around

8:48

the world, he didn't take us into was

8:50

and also he didn't give way to people.

8:52

He did do with people. People were frightened

8:54

of and they didn't take action

8:56

against America because they were worried

8:58

about what he would do and

9:00

they point out that I'm a

9:02

uprooting was emboldens to go into

9:04

Ukraine. Certainly some republicans thinkers say

9:06

this by Obamas perceived weakness around

9:08

the world and predictability exactly that

9:10

works world around the world since

9:12

it or it's a talks to

9:14

a talking point. The a lot

9:16

of Republicans are lot of ordinary

9:18

folk who are thinking of voting

9:20

for Donald Trump already believe. That

9:23

yet you can talk yourself in circles

9:25

trying to figure out what Vladimir Putins

9:27

think he may or may be. He's

9:29

being quite frank and honest. I mean,

9:31

Joe Biden is kind of a traditional

9:33

politician. Donald Trump is unpredictable now or

9:35

to inject a certain amount of doubt

9:37

and chaos said to us recirculation. saw.

9:39

Although I think it's pretty clear that

9:42

Donald Trump, if he becomes President, will

9:44

take a very different tack towards Us

9:46

Ukraine relations in a way that would

9:48

be beneficial to Russia. So we do

9:50

have exactly how Donald Trump has responded

9:52

to Vladimir Putins. Comments in this

9:54

clip from Dump Trump at a

9:56

rally President Bush know Versa. Has

10:00

just given me a great job, lovers

10:02

actually. He's. Just said that he

10:04

would much rather have Joe Biden President.

10:06

Than shop that as a compliment. A lot of people.

10:08

says oh jesus too bad. No,

10:11

no, that's a good thing. Considerably, there are

10:13

some on the right Just and I say

10:15

we talked about this before who look at

10:17

Russia as an example of something that the

10:20

United States should strive to emulate. So would

10:22

be a little disappointed a Vladimir Putin isn't

10:24

all in on the Trump Trump is synced.

10:26

dizzying isn't it? When you think of Ronald

10:29

Reagan, when you think I'm not even know

10:31

who I backed and Ronald Reagan think a

10:33

John Mccain he ate it is just staggering

10:35

where the Republican party has gone. I think

10:38

you're right Actually, as he probably was referring

10:40

to people on the right who sale. Less

10:42

A pretty expensive new president seems like

10:44

a reasonable fell out of the very

10:46

good to get his endorsement of. Even

10:48

disappointed it is just stunning when you

10:50

look at all the political turnarounds and

10:52

witnesses in his treats. this is gonna

10:54

go down as of people will. Say

10:56

interesting about this I think is that me

10:59

we've. Talked before about how unusual it

11:01

is far foreign policy questions to really

11:03

seriously impact on a presidential election. Although

11:05

this yes might be different because they're

11:07

at so many every serious foreign policy

11:10

issues that the U S is facing.

11:12

But this idea that you are getting

11:14

at just and of the difference of

11:16

how America is perceived and of course

11:19

that is often embodied by the president.

11:21

And whether it's seen as strong. Or weak.

11:23

This is something I've had a lot

11:26

for voters that they are concerns that

11:28

somehow America's not projecting strength around the

11:30

world anymore. And if you compare Donald

11:32

Trump and Jill Biden, they're very, very

11:34

clear in their own minds which one

11:36

look stronger as we, even if you've

11:38

got reservations about Donald Trump's policies or

11:40

whether in fact is actually a bully

11:42

rather than a strong. Man. There

11:45

is a real sense that

11:47

Americans identity is damaged if

11:49

they. Are. Persuaded that they're not somehow

11:51

being led dinner at and a which.

11:54

Invites. The rest of the world to see

11:56

the strength of America and I think that is potentially

11:58

up a subtle but very of damn. The thing

12:00

for Joe Biden and I think it

12:02

goes back to Afghanistan and the way

12:05

the United States withdrew from Afghanistan that

12:07

was, and Twenty Twenty One, which was

12:09

relatively shortly after Joe Biden. Took.

12:11

Office and I think that was a blow

12:13

to the perception that Joe Biden and his

12:15

team were the grown ups in the room

12:18

and they could handle foreign policy. And it's

12:20

a blow that even in the ensuing years

12:22

in the way the by Mr. A son

12:24

has handled Ukraine as it certainly the way

12:26

that Bind misread mishandled the Gaza War that

12:29

hasn't changed it or in some instances has

12:31

contributed to that perception in a way that

12:33

Donald Trump has been able to capitalize on.

12:36

An acoustic biden has been making a play.

12:38

Pool. They are were doing

12:40

things radio Republican way and sued

12:42

the a democrat way as well

12:45

which is some old a kind

12:47

of stretches of the world was

12:49

set up by the United States

12:51

after the Second World War. staying.

12:53

Power and A Sensible and Good

12:56

for America and number one of

12:58

those structures and nascent. And

13:00

see when he has and when many

13:02

Americans here donald Trump talking about Nato

13:04

in the way that he did find

13:06

coming out and trying to rally America

13:08

or in a sense and saint who

13:11

for goodness sake when you hear this

13:13

kind of thanks Is this not enough

13:15

to persuade you that actually would be

13:17

dangerous? Not just unpredictable but dangerous to

13:20

go and any other direction but the

13:22

direction Generally speaking that all American Presidents

13:24

have been nothing and since the Second

13:26

World War the other way of looking

13:29

at this. Have we all gone a

13:31

bit over the top once again? And

13:33

is Joe Biden going over the top

13:35

once again In a way that the

13:38

American people will think actually is And

13:40

that a really interesting question from to

13:42

Madison and Reuters about Trump's Nato comments

13:44

and he said this, I America's Trump's

13:46

from Us Now Sleep or a perfect

13:49

example of what you've mentioned before. His

13:51

supporters take him seriously, but not literally.

13:53

it's wears his critics taken literally, but

13:55

not serious. Makes granted what he was

13:58

proposing did sound pretty serious, but. The

14:00

achieved exactly what he wanted. the cheers

14:02

from his own proud amplified by the

14:04

horrified reaction from the political elite he

14:07

claims to be fighting. Most important of

14:09

all, he gave him headlines all around

14:11

the world and all this at a

14:14

time when an investigator was saying that

14:16

Biden wasn't worthy of being investigated. So

14:18

whatever else he might have gym says

14:20

to as he is really a mass

14:23

the communicator Trump a question then for

14:25

America's has there ever been a better

14:27

one? Wealth a bike take off on.

14:30

That Ronald Reagan probably bus thousand

14:32

another age where you communicated in

14:34

a different way. But actually in

14:36

many respects Bill Clinton had away

14:38

with him and Obama on his

14:40

day in set speeches bus There

14:42

is something about Trump for these

14:44

dark times that Anthony really works

14:46

as an side and Franklin Roosevelt

14:48

are also think back to the

14:50

way he's radio and each one

14:52

of the ones you mentioned use

14:54

a new medium to communicate with

14:56

people radio or television or with

14:58

Bill Clinton. Town Halls. Donald Trump

15:00

using social media and bypassing the filters

15:03

of the mainstream media. I think he

15:05

is in that way, a master of

15:07

today's method of communicating the So A

15:10

with regards to when he's talking about

15:12

Nato. I think yes, maybe the his

15:14

supporters take him seriously as well as

15:16

the rest of us said taken literally,

15:19

but also world leaders are taken him

15:21

literally. which I think is a very

15:23

serious concern when American allies look at

15:26

what Donald Trump is saying and wonder

15:28

about the future of Nato. With Donald

15:30

Trump as President of they have to

15:32

take actions based on what they're seeing

15:34

and that has very real world consequences.

15:36

Don't you think they're absolutely and as

15:38

Donald Trump would argue and I think

15:40

m it would be absolutely rights One

15:42

of the real world consequences of the

15:44

things he said about Nato in the

15:46

past. Is that Nato member countries to spend a

15:48

lot more on defense? When he was saying that that

15:50

you know if they hadn't paid. Their dues. He

15:53

would encourage Rosette to and do whatever

15:55

he wanted. Now course, you don't pay

15:57

a membership fee to join Nato. But

15:59

what you do? If undertaken, commitment.

16:01

To pay at least two percent of

16:03

your annual budget towards the fence and

16:05

most Nato countries don't do that and

16:07

they didn't do that When them Donald

16:09

Trump as president he met a lotta

16:11

remarks about this and more of them

16:13

are spending more that some people. In

16:15

Eastern Europe, some these countries are spending more

16:17

because they see a heightened threat from Russia

16:19

of course, but these threats from Donald Trump

16:21

would appear to have had some effect and

16:23

actually making people spend more money on their

16:26

own defense. Exactly what Donald Trump's was hoping

16:28

for them. To do. I mean that sometimes

16:30

you can. Read too much into some sort

16:32

of master strategy behind what Donald Trump

16:34

does, but you know I would argue.

16:36

Not only is he a fantastic campaigner,

16:38

as said Tim Addison to suggesting that

16:40

Snow may actually it's not subtle, but

16:42

this is pretty effective diplomacy as well.

16:56

I'm Gay Brigades House from the

16:58

Global Story podcast it's two months

17:01

since Soviet Millay known as a

17:03

local The Madmen was sworn in

17:05

as Argentina's President. Can you follow

17:07

through on his promises to/government and

17:09

tame inflation? And do Argentinians have

17:12

the patience to see if it's

17:14

the right idea for Global Story

17:16

brings you fresh takes and smart

17:18

prospectus for Bbc journalist around the

17:20

world. Find. Us whereas you get

17:23

to put costs. For.

17:30

Let's move on. Thanks! So I'd

17:32

wanna listen to the emergency or

17:34

episode last week and we've had

17:36

more people than ever questioning whether

17:38

Joe Biden can be removed from

17:40

the ballot. More people than ever

17:42

in America has to be sense,

17:44

but more importantly for our purposes,

17:46

more Americans does as well. Whenever

17:48

a Johnson Wilcox who census the

17:50

spokesman. Why?

17:52

America Us as a mere bridge or

17:54

be one who's worked regularly and Usa

17:57

over the years. I says it best,

17:59

the wind. One seems able to

18:01

confront Joe Biden with the truth that

18:03

with is increasingly evident frailty, he looking

18:05

more and more likely to lose to

18:08

Donald Trump the next November's election. Many

18:11

poles have suggested that virtually any

18:13

one of the next generation who

18:16

has two legs, charisma, a decent

18:18

track record of some sort of

18:20

achievement would wipe the floor with.

18:22

come do Democrats have a death

18:24

wish in continuing not to put

18:27

pressure on person biden summer child

18:29

with the grace and why those

18:31

closest to him seemingly paralyzed by

18:33

misplaced i'm blanket launching Thanks Johnson.

18:36

While. Jonathan. I don't know if it's misplaced

18:38

and blinkered loyalty or whether it said what

18:40

you might com in America. The chain

18:43

of command things are very different.

18:45

In the political system here and you're not

18:47

alone in wondering why are we in the

18:49

Uk? I guess the common man and grace

18:51

is haven't gone into the West Wing and

18:53

told you biden that Chino, the game is

18:55

up. It's time to go. Back there

18:57

simply isn't anybody in. That leadership

18:59

position, The head of the Democratic National Council,

19:01

the Chief of Staff. None of these people

19:04

come close to being able to tell the

19:06

President fought to do the First Lady as

19:08

a great deal of influence on this but

19:10

it appears that she is is convinced is

19:13

Joe Biden is that that he can go

19:15

on and. Wind is and there

19:17

is another problem as well. I

19:19

mean you say tell us and

19:21

any. Democrat. With a half

19:24

decent track record could beat Donald Trump.

19:26

Well the. One person that to abide

19:28

mckenna have to hand over to if he

19:30

was decide. Not to run would be Camel

19:33

Harris the Vice President and see might be

19:35

the one person who couldn't beat to buy

19:37

what do you think Anthony ah I had

19:39

I want to see these Paul said Jonathan

19:41

his that has been seeing that shows anyone

19:44

wiping the flow or Donald Trump because I

19:46

haven't seen them I've seen some that show

19:48

roughly the same type of a contest. If

19:50

it were say Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom

19:53

the Governor of California running a instead of

19:55

Joe Biden, it's gonna be a close race.

19:57

and as one of the reasons why I.

20:00

Joe Biden continues to be in a

20:02

position of strength within the Democratic party.

20:04

My no one has turned on is

20:07

because the reality is Joe Biden as

20:09

incumbent has advantages that these other folks

20:11

wouldn't have, particularly after a ferocious primary

20:13

or the process to see who would

20:16

replace them. And as you correctly, Pointed.

20:18

Out Sarah Com O. Harris would be

20:20

in the pole position to take the

20:22

nomination if Joe Biden doesn't want it

20:24

and Us. Kamala Harris certainly doesn't have

20:26

any kind of an advantage that that

20:28

Joe Biden doesn't Right now she's in

20:30

some the polls I've seen actually runs

20:33

worse against Donald Trump than mine South

20:35

Democrats Looking at this and seen this

20:37

kind of muddle mess, Joe Biden, not

20:39

wanting to hand over the reins of

20:41

power clearly he wants to say press

20:43

and all of this adds up to

20:45

a status quo. Were Joe Biden is

20:47

going to stay the nominee. Unless something

20:49

really, really drastic happens in Justin I'm in.

20:51

they did you see anything drastic? Happ and

20:53

I mean this is seems like it's it's

20:55

is kind of a fait accompli at this

20:57

point. Well. I mean I

21:00

do increasingly thing and I thought

21:02

is a some time and we

21:04

we've talked about am am i

21:06

think this is an emergency that

21:09

is now inescapable pool and across

21:11

most Americans according to every pub

21:13

and one. Joe. Biden and

21:15

Donald Trump to run against each

21:18

other. Most democrats eaten them on

21:20

Joe Biden to be that the

21:22

news conference that he held after

21:25

that business with the special counsel's

21:27

report that cold in the sentinel

21:29

daughter old man where he was

21:31

angry and sad she and strains

21:34

and then made another mistake had

21:36

democrats them both pull the dollar.

21:38

Them very well known democratic party

21:41

all percent from ah yes to

21:43

yeah was on Cnn us. Are

21:45

in saying that he slept like a

21:47

baby said after the Biden news conference.

21:49

In other words, he woke up every

21:51

two hours crying and blessing himself. I

21:54

think there is now an increasing sense

21:56

and this is a slow motion. Calamity.

21:59

actually. Democratic Party. Having told

22:01

everyone that this is the most important

22:03

election in the world ever because they

22:06

gotta say democracy than to put our

22:08

someone who appears to the eat too

22:10

many many Americans to be incapable of

22:12

doing the job and there is a

22:15

real sense all the emergency and panic

22:17

and and I mean Anthony's absolutely right

22:19

and and was with we are not

22:22

in a position where normal politics can

22:24

see him removed. he would have to

22:26

remove himself. So I'm yeah, American or

22:29

imagine it's so playing out and social

22:31

major in a way that is calm

22:33

and relaxed and forth. As

22:36

always, assesses the clips you talk about

22:38

the city, the ones from that presser

22:40

that Biden gave away that he was

22:42

talking and then let the comments he

22:44

made about different people that were incorrect.

22:46

They have obviously been like catnip fret

22:48

the online world basically because lots of

22:50

speak on social media for months and

22:53

months now have been pointing to examples

22:55

where they fail to say Biden is

22:57

showing himself to the sale or not

22:59

capable of being the President anymore and

23:01

that to be honest that's these clips

23:03

were dreams. That and say which. Is

23:05

like oh great. This is exactly in a

23:07

they didn't really have to do anything to

23:10

them, they could just reset and to feather

23:12

this idea that Biden is not capable of

23:14

being president and look, it attempts to kind

23:16

of counteract that. I damn we chatted quite

23:18

a lot about the different ways that Biden

23:21

has betrayed on social media upset me and

23:23

my undercover they to seats are five fictional

23:25

characters based on data Since the research center

23:27

tend to get this is a place that

23:29

image of Biden as kind of evil. Brandon,

23:32

All of this kind of stuff has really

23:34

fallen away even in seeds. I've found a

23:36

of the and come of age is that

23:38

would otherwise be quite supportive of him and

23:40

he is almost entirely focused on his age

23:42

almost entirely. Until I think this from Bidens

23:45

point of the trying to kind of combat

23:47

that online conversations is gonna be a really

23:49

difficult one. I don't quite see how they

23:51

can to manage to do that. Is.

23:54

Had a huge. Number of questions on

23:56

this topic from our America as including

23:58

Neil who emailed us. And said hi Mary. Quip

24:00

The Democratic Party Get rid of Biden. Via

24:03

the Vice President, the cabinet, and the

24:05

Twenty Fifth Amendment which have a good

24:07

question and then on a similar theme

24:09

Lisa Clark assets this might be a

24:12

bit left field, but wouldn't Michelle Obama?

24:14

Be a great replacement for Joe Biden

24:16

as the Democratic candidate for the presidential

24:18

race and she is a qualified lawyer

24:20

to she's also this the fantasy of

24:22

a huge number of democratic supporters. And

24:24

it is something that gets talked about a

24:26

great deal and they talk about it online.

24:28

I'm sure you've seen that. Mariana I have

24:30

an on a cemetery that Michelle Obama is

24:32

tend to have a pretty good strategy when

24:35

it comes to the social media. While the

24:37

rather pretty good reaction to the kind of

24:39

content she's involved with have seen clips of

24:41

i don't really quite viral quite stuff she

24:43

said to have club pick up across social

24:45

media says she someone he's you know has

24:47

really succeeded. I'd say in the kind of

24:49

Instagram age of building a price falling growing

24:51

it particularly with younger audience isn't she often

24:53

kind of. Will pop up. Speaking

24:55

on Pa Pa stuff like that sites,

24:57

you could totally see how someone like

25:00

Michelle Obama would succeed in appealing to

25:02

use a younger audience in that way

25:04

online am and the kinds of issues

25:06

that they care about and interested in.

25:08

But I think is kind of another

25:11

question whether she'd ever even. You

25:13

know be the replacement For by know a once be

25:15

the replacement. The biden so I think I could

25:17

take on. Deals. Question I'm the

25:19

Twenty Fifth Amendment to Eat And

25:21

Twenty Fifth Amendment was designed to

25:23

temporarily replace a president who has

25:25

been incapacitated or otherwise on fit

25:27

to hold office. Know that could

25:29

be as as you mention through

25:31

the vice president and the cabinets

25:34

issuing a their signatures and that

25:36

would temporarily removed the president but

25:38

then it has to be confirmed

25:40

by a two thirds vote of

25:42

congress would conceivably could happen and

25:44

that would remove the president for

25:46

an extended amount of times. The.

25:48

Thing is that has nothing to do

25:50

with a president or a candidate getting

25:52

the nomination and running again. The doesn't

25:54

prohibit Joe Biden if he were removed

25:57

from still running for president. Still get

25:59

into democratic. The Nation. That and running

26:01

a later on this year it seems

26:03

like a particularly dramatic and chaotic way

26:05

to try to get him out of

26:07

office. Nnamabia could force force Bidens hand

26:09

by seen that his entire cabinet and

26:12

vice president have turned against him, but

26:14

that would be something of a stopped

26:16

short of actually using the Twenty Fifth

26:18

Amendment and it would be the kind

26:20

of thing that would cause a real

26:22

chasm, a real divide within the democratic

26:24

party which is exactly of think they

26:26

probably don't want to do going into

26:28

I had had match. Up with Donald

26:31

Trump which is all of these scenarios. How

26:33

much are disrupted or a would be compared

26:35

to just sticking with Joe Biden Air with

26:37

all of his age related flaws and hoping

26:40

for the best and what looks like a

26:42

neck and neck presidential campaign in November. Still,

26:45

Biden has had a a catchphrase for a

26:47

while that he uses when confronted with the

26:49

situation where he says don't compare me with

26:51

the Almighty when people are saying and not

26:54

flaws at including is a spin compare we

26:56

with the Almighty compare me with the Alternative.

26:58

Me close with this. As I

27:01

said earlier, my dad used to say, don't

27:03

compare Really almighty compare mediocre. This

27:06

November you have to choose. To

27:08

be a nation of hope, unity and optimism.

27:11

Or. A nation of feared division, darkness and

27:13

which is him trying to say let's

27:15

eat out You might not love me,

27:17

but do you really want Donald Trump

27:19

than office? Is that gonna work? So

27:22

to get people who are just not

27:24

that enthusiastic about biden out to. The

27:26

pulls his. Remember this is not a risk

27:28

that there are that many voters out there

27:30

who are going to switch their vote from

27:32

Biden to Trump just because they think Biden

27:34

said they old. This is about people on

27:37

the last who are unsure about him at

27:39

who are just not as soon as the

27:41

by it's endless. all sorts of things that

27:43

mean. That they might just sit in the hands

27:45

and say homes and could make the difference. And

27:47

me mother is some pushback against all

27:49

of us as well saying why you

27:51

concentrate on Joe Biden and his thoughts

27:53

when you got don't from still around

27:55

and all sorts of things about Donald

27:57

Trump that are themselves faulty. to put

27:59

it mildly, am one of the things

28:01

that should be brought up by It's

28:03

and America since early. Interesting point So

28:05

let's listen to this voice note from

28:07

Tom Kenny in Australia. Hello

28:10

America holsters, Following.

28:12

On from lawsuits program. I.

28:14

Would like to ask your views

28:16

on the differences between the retained

28:18

Dawkins cases for Trump and Biden,

28:20

respectively. As I understand

28:23

it, Trump was only charged for

28:25

returning those documents said he held

28:27

on for. After being served notice

28:29

to return all documents. His.

28:31

Staff were filmed moving the dotcoms around

28:33

to hide them. Fired.

28:36

I'm actively cooperated with law

28:38

enforcement and actually self reported.

28:41

As a report from the C O

28:43

J, yes, it is political. Jonathan. Looks

28:46

to me like a republican who

28:48

chop using language. There's no place

28:50

in an official report. Or.

28:53

On purple coming home and down on

28:55

the phone. Some. You're

28:57

absolutely right about the difference between the two

28:59

cases, and that's why Donald Trump is going

29:01

to trial over this. And while one of

29:03

the reasons why I'm Joe Biden isn't lapse

29:06

in the fact that as sweet know infamously

29:08

the Special counsel said that he would be

29:10

able to persuade a jury that he was

29:12

a well meaning elderly gentlemen with a poor

29:14

memory and but of course having a poor

29:16

memory of actually get you out of them

29:19

Criminal Prosecution A lot of the. Time.

29:21

It's really interesting this so I

29:23

think because frequently people say hang.

29:25

On. You know you're criticizing Joe Biden for

29:27

his memory sleep. so retaining the documents blah

29:30

blah blah. Donald Trump has done the same,

29:32

but it's done much, much worse. Fire Fire.

29:34

You criticize it. But I think there's another

29:36

way of looking at this as well. Which

29:39

is because Donald Trump's behavior is often much

29:41

more egregious. And you see the classified documents

29:43

he's got, you'd have piled up and box

29:45

is beside the toilet. Admire allow those as

29:47

opposed to being stored in the carriage in.

29:50

Delaware. we sometimes over little things

29:52

that Joe Biden as President of

29:54

the United States has done which

29:56

in other times will be absolutely.

29:58

Scandalous me, but. It is as

30:00

your pencil report. It was really critical of the

30:02

way that to buy that handled these documents and

30:05

the story that came out there was different from

30:07

the one the White House had told. Us events

30:09

in late when they came across these documents

30:11

and hundred the been. Yes, they handed them

30:13

over voluntarily, But no, they weren't being stored

30:15

securely as we have been told. or it's

30:17

in. Let's is, he had shared the contents

30:20

with other people like his ghost writer for

30:22

instance, So many ways. Of it

30:24

wasn't for Trump's really greet his behavior Joe Biden,

30:26

will I should? Getting a lot more criticism I

30:28

think. I figure absolutely right.

30:30

Sarah rubber her in his report

30:32

did draw distinctions between Donald Trump's

30:35

handling of his classified documents and

30:37

Joe Biden says and explained why

30:39

he was in charge and Joe

30:41

Biden as and why perhaps the

30:43

decision to charge Donald Trump went

30:45

forward because he attempted to cover

30:48

up possessing documents, didn't respond to

30:50

repeated F B I request for

30:52

the documents altered her apparently props

30:54

are destroyed tapes that would show

30:56

the documents be moved around Mara

30:59

Lago. These Roth things he kind

31:01

of by included in the report,

31:03

but as as as Tom also

31:05

points out, one of the critiques

31:07

of Robert Her was the way

31:10

he talked about Joe Biden and

31:12

his forgetfulness And as saying he

31:14

he doesn't recall plane directly into

31:16

their pre existing criticisms are concerns

31:18

about Joe Biden and his aides

31:20

in in a way that Props

31:23

was not necessarily southwards, the democrats

31:25

who circle the wagons around Job

31:27

I'd recently had been saying. And

31:29

if you look at a lot of

31:31

different deposition say the Donald Trump is

31:34

done that other people under investigation have

31:36

said when they've been asked about perhaps

31:38

incriminating information they didn't say I don't

31:40

recall or I don't remember. That's almost

31:42

kind of a boilerplate way of responding.

31:45

But in this case robert her breasts

31:47

frustrated that he couldn't bring charges against

31:49

Joe Biden dub play that up in

31:51

a way that was particularly damaging to

31:53

Joe Biden. At least that is what

31:56

the line for many democrats are at

31:58

this point now several days after that

32:00

reports them out. but I think I'm

32:02

to the you can draw a distinction

32:04

candy between the line the some democrats

32:07

are taking and some democratic supporting news

32:09

stations which is very supportive of Saw

32:11

have spied an unsavory and strong in

32:13

their objections to add a special counsel

32:16

and then they have some reasonable points

32:18

to mates and game better was Arrow

32:20

was saying just the behavior of Joe

32:22

Biden. I'm a which which was I

32:24

can't imagine George W. Bush doing this

32:27

topic. certainly can't imagine Barack Obama during

32:29

a took these documents. He said them

32:31

or said information and them with a

32:33

ghost writer. And yes, he didn't cover

32:35

art that he had done it. But

32:37

I have to say the news conference

32:39

is quite interesting. This and it goes

32:41

to a discussion that we've all had

32:43

in America as a very involved in

32:46

about whether we should treat Trump and

32:48

Biden differently as candidates. And we do.

32:50

And there is great concern about playing

32:52

Donald Trump's press conferences lies because of

32:54

the things that he says. The guy

32:56

who said that all the documents at

32:58

all times were either under. Lock and

33:00

Key or and Us and a cabinet

33:03

where they could be under lock and

33:05

key and you can see from the

33:07

pictures. That's not the case of those

33:10

things. My sudden they you know it,

33:12

it it just. it just seems to

33:14

me that spanned and said slips to

33:16

such an extent. The Biden is now

33:19

exactly a Sarah was suggesting an able

33:21

possibly to get away with stuff because

33:23

of. The. Trump in the background

33:25

and the previous presidents just wouldn't have

33:28

done and it is important nothing to

33:30

to be able to call him out

33:32

on their and and to do it.

33:34

One. Thing I've really noticed is the way

33:36

that whether we talking about from for biden

33:39

hair in it people just cherry pick exactly

33:41

what they want, the hair and exactly what

33:43

concerns that biases and it's tweet or x

33:45

about our web with calling it now I'm

33:48

posts online and it continues to says that

33:50

a narrative and I think what's think the

33:52

interesting as if you think about the different

33:54

reception t in a Trump vs Biden seventy

33:57

relation to this I think when it comes

33:59

to Trump. Made people have already

34:01

sent me an incision. Media world I've

34:03

been looking at seems have made up

34:05

their mind. They either really like him

34:08

or they really don't like him. and

34:10

whether the kind of accusations being levelled

34:12

at him don't seem to be changing

34:14

the way. That people perceive him, they

34:16

just continue to double down on their pre existing

34:19

position and in fact if anything it's slightly worked

34:21

in his favor Because you think what people say

34:23

oh wow I feel like maybe Trump is being

34:25

unfairly targeted or maybe this isn't fair and so

34:27

that more inclined to support Trump whereas with Biden

34:29

sent me in this case I think what's been

34:31

the most. Shocking

34:34

perhaps? or I didn't have something so I

34:36

word. but what's what's been different compared to

34:38

Trump is the way that there were some

34:40

people who use attorney may be liked by

34:42

the and he within like want an hour

34:44

feel about this. Now I'm not sure about

34:46

it and then I've really noticed that that

34:48

while people have their entrenched bees the benefit

34:50

to Trump of this kinda stuff less has

34:52

been has been quite different and you see

34:54

that play out with people who perhaps you

34:56

know wouldn't normally be getting stuck in and

34:58

commenting on this stuff online. actually deciding to

35:01

really post about this issue because probably something

35:03

that's been popping. Up in their seeds for a

35:05

while and then made no gotten opinion of us.

35:14

Know in the midst of what was already a very

35:16

busy week for the. President. Has some

35:18

something slightly surprising and something maybe

35:20

aimed at making. Him look a

35:22

little bit younger he's joined told

35:24

gamer commercial says gamer absentia says

35:26

Susan Kelsey grammar skills. His mom

35:28

was also the census christakis of

35:30

seriously Flawed and during the seasons

35:32

of it's used to make the

35:34

Superbowl or that she disappears provoking

35:36

them Some of us. From

35:40

provide written. By.

35:43

Now you can decide for yourselves with other empty.

35:46

Really? Very heavily scripted and slightly stilted.

35:48

Performance is do the job of

35:50

making Biden loot camps at useful

35:52

and them dynamic. but you know

35:54

elysees on a platform where he

35:56

is reaching out to different people.

35:58

I felt quite pleased with myself that they

36:00

have spotted this all my own. Mariana didn't

36:02

have to sell mates. is this the President

36:04

had joined Take Shots because I read. In

36:06

the mainstream news paper and follow the link from

36:08

that takes out the That's when I realized and

36:10

yeah, this is not exactly being on the ground

36:12

floor of social media is that mariana? I

36:14

mean, it's interesting because. That. Video that

36:17

says city I really tries to play into existing

36:19

kicked out trends getting get two choices side by

36:21

side and the way that it tends to work

36:23

is can have to seek your head one way

36:25

or the other but this was have a seat

36:27

and I'm bit. More choreographed. Probably

36:29

due to the thought that Britain is like

36:31

just did not use his be physically sick.

36:33

Or in off of it and assesses. Have

36:36

another chance to make that they're get. To

36:38

be honest, it doesn't surprise me the at

36:40

a time when there is all this crazy

36:43

about Bidens age in his ability to be

36:45

relevant with younger voters except track that he's

36:47

decided to do this because To Cook is

36:49

the place where at large number of younger

36:52

voters are uncertainty where it's possible to go

36:54

really really viral and to gain traction under

36:56

a pile of older people who use tic

36:58

toc and are able to go far in

37:00

in that way. I'm including some politicians, journalists,

37:03

other people like that so I'd be really

37:05

interested. To see how much traction he

37:07

does that managed to accumulate and

37:09

to what extent that can change

37:11

his perception among younger voters. And

37:14

Co fine speak up for the older

37:16

generation, it's ghastly. It's tongue turning because

37:18

it's in authentic from a that. but

37:20

about will be the criticism from. Fool.

37:23

Fool American politicos on you can hear already.

37:25

The thing to do when you're a politician

37:27

is plays your strength. don't look as if

37:30

you've been put in front of a

37:32

camera by young people and told say things

37:34

and experiment to make a difference. Politically

37:36

that's not what works and from for all

37:38

his full to my goodness we have

37:40

outlined a lot of them and among them

37:43

a perfectly obvious to a lot of

37:45

Americans may talk about animal the times the

37:47

guys authentic he really is and if

37:49

you run in authentically against him you will

37:51

be crossed. That is the history. Of all

37:53

those who have run in authentically against him

37:56

and the other thing I'll just say marinated

37:58

in a television, I know. Do

38:00

you wouldn't watch live Tv anymore

38:02

because you you get you And

38:04

a word like satellites that I've

38:06

been here for like his That

38:09

here's the thing He is just

38:11

ah, stop an opportunity to talk

38:13

to the biggest Tv audience in

38:15

America. Since I dunno when a

38:17

hundred and twenty three million people

38:19

watch the Superbowl Cbs are really

38:21

friendly networks offered to do the

38:24

traditional presidential interview with Biden and

38:26

he turned it down or is

38:28

people dead because I didn't. Think

38:30

that able to put him in front of the

38:32

camera and have him talk about his interest in

38:34

the game and all the rest of it and

38:37

then a couple of political questions to which is

38:39

what they generally do in those interviews to just

38:41

seems to me to be potentially a real mistake.

38:44

I think one thing that's important. know an

38:46

interesting when it comes to using social media

38:48

versus T. This is the level of control

38:50

the it affords, bidens, team and to some

38:53

extent fight and vs if you're doing something

38:55

that live on telly and that is a

38:57

bad thing when it comes to accountability and

38:59

scrutiny. And it's something that journalists are grappling

39:02

with a lot because actually some politicians is

39:04

deciding a gray. I can some indicate directly

39:06

with the audience three and out with them

39:08

or not the audience we said the audience

39:10

they would say they to his sentence or

39:13

the general public. Three says social media profiles

39:15

And so it means that they kind of

39:17

can avoid the media and avoid some of

39:19

the scrutiny that comes from dealing with the

39:21

media sites. You know you think that The

39:23

argument of I remember a while ago we

39:26

we joked about being this election campaign team

39:28

and I miss the social media strategist and

39:30

if I was the social media strategist for

39:32

By did I would broadly think that this

39:34

was a pretty good idea because it means

39:36

that you had a bit more control over

39:38

how he appears. You're putting it into the

39:40

right kinds of spaces are lots of younger

39:43

people who just aren't. Watching tv and that

39:45

whites and what that probably worried about I imagine

39:47

protect the after the events of the past the

39:49

wheat is I clip of biden doing something that

39:51

is not favorable goes ready viral when he pops

39:53

up on the telly says is this where at

39:56

least they have some control of what they're putting

39:58

out my and also to what your. Saying

40:00

he does seem really a choreographed and

40:02

not necessarily super authentic and that kind

40:04

of content doesn't tend to actually do

40:06

that well on Tic Toc because what

40:08

people one is genuine authentic content that

40:10

seems really real on the is people

40:12

you know taking part in trends and

40:14

stuff like that if something seems a

40:16

bit too polished or a bit too

40:18

like what didn't quite work a wide

40:20

tend to get the cut through in

40:22

the and the views that you think

40:24

his team probably hates it will whereas

40:26

someone might Donald Trump who we've looked

40:29

at his social media strategy interested off

40:31

at quite a loss. He's really succeeded

40:33

in that kind of organic content. like

40:35

getting people to make stuff that is

40:37

from fans or people who genuinely loves

40:39

Donald Trump and it feels authentic quote

40:41

unquote and that people really like. You've

40:43

both got me deeply worried because basically what

40:45

I could hear underneath as as you're saying,

40:47

it's maybe not a great idea for President

40:49

Biden be on take Talk, but it might

40:52

be an equally bad idea for a slightly

40:54

aging television reporter who only ever watch his

40:56

videos publicity hit the talks to also deliver

40:58

reports. They're just because you got an email

41:00

for the social media team say we need

41:03

that for to help as well as from

41:05

television. And anyone doesn't have any questions,

41:07

please do send them to us. As of us,

41:09

we do have an eclectic group of business, including

41:11

this one. He gave us a shout out on

41:14

the Today programme on Radio Four. Times.

41:16

A Thoughtful The Day The Speak this

41:18

Morning As a reference Professor David Wilkinson

41:20

Principle of Synch John's College Durham University.

41:23

Good. Morning. On this

41:25

basis to years ago the Russian

41:27

was Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was arrested his

41:30

life as a picture of speaking

41:32

truth to power and both it's

41:34

cost and it's complexity. I'm grateful

41:37

for those who see speaking Truth

41:39

to Power as both responsibility on

41:41

gift. And journalism it's

41:43

embodiment is in Christiane Amanpour

41:46

one last week's America First

41:48

spoke of it's a postal

41:50

costs and it's continued relevance,

41:52

not least in the forthcoming

41:54

Us Presidential elections now. Vast

41:56

morale is what I call

41:58

authenticity. The Reverend. Professor know going

42:00

on to say talk putting going on,

42:02

email the going on for for the

42:05

day. It's an elegant way of endorsing

42:07

someone and that's the way it should

42:09

be done and will be done the

42:11

future. And we should say whether you

42:13

are Reverend Professor or not, you're very

42:15

welcome coast to get in touch with

42:17

us. The Box Office for Four Three

42:19

Three Zero One Two Three Nine for

42:21

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42:23

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42:25

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42:30

ya later. Bye Bye America America

42:32

from Bbc News. Thanks for

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free Bbc Sounds That which

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is now available worldwide. I'm

42:53

Gabriel Date House from the Global

42:56

Story podcast. It's two months since

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and madmen the sworn in as

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Argentina's President Cheney, follow through on

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And do Argentinians have the patience

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