0:00

Good evening. I want to start with a video

0:02

clip that says far too much about being a kid today.

0:05

These are young children, single file, holding

0:07

hands. They're being taken not on a field

0:09

trip to see the dinosaurs, but out of harm's

0:11

way from the scene of a school mass shooting. Another

0:14

one, this time in Nashville at the Covenant

0:16

School, a private Christian school for kids pre-K

0:19

age to sixth grade. Reading

0:21

from its webpage, the beauty of a preschool

0:24

sixth school is in its simplicity and innocence.

0:27

Students are free to be children, website says

0:30

celebrating

0:30

childhood says at the top of the

0:33

two girls and a boy reportedly all nine

0:35

were murdered there today by 28 year old former

0:38

student who also murdered three adults before

0:41

being killed by police the children

0:43

were Evelyn Dickhouse William Kinney

0:46

Howley and Howley's dad

0:48

is senior pastor of covenant Presbyterian

0:50

Church which runs the school to the adults

0:52

murder Cynthia peak and Mike Hill were

0:55

both 61

0:56

Mike Hill's friend posted this photo of him online

0:59

said Mr. Hill was the last employee he hired

1:01

he ran the school in Kitchen,

1:03

said he was the kind of person who would sacrifice for

1:06

others. Katherine Coons

1:08

was also murdered. She was 60, head

1:10

of the Covenant Her daughter is a

1:12

teacher there.

1:14

Police say her killer, who they say was transgender,

1:16

carrying a handgun two assault-style rifles.

1:19

President

1:19

Biden today called on Congress to do

1:21

what it no willingness to do since the federal

1:23

ban on such weapons expired in 2004.

1:27

So I call on Congress again to pass

1:29

my assault weapons ban. It's

1:31

about time that we began to make

1:34

some more progress, but there's more to learn.

1:37

I just wanted to send

1:39

my concern and hearts

1:41

out to so many parents

1:43

out As for lawmakers,

1:46

Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn, who helped

1:48

pass a limited gun safety package during

1:50

the last Congress, says he doesn't believe any

1:52

more legislation will move on the issue in

1:54

the next two years. according

1:56

to CNN's Monorajah that an assault weapons

1:58

ban would affect quote

1:59

law abiding citizens. But later

2:02

we'll be joined by his democratic counterpart from

2:04

Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy. Right

2:06

now I wanna go to Nashville and see Nance Carlos Suarez.

2:08

So what more do we know now about how the attack unfolded

2:11

Carlos?

2:14

Well Anderson we know that at least according

2:16

to police the 28 year old was ready

2:18

for a confrontation with officers. We're

2:21

told that the gunman had two AR

2:23

style weapons as well as a handgun

2:25

and that two of those weapons were legally

2:28

obtained. According to the chief of police

2:30

out here, the 28-year-old had several

2:33

rounds of ammunition and had

2:35

detailed the plan of the

2:37

attack. We're told that this was a targeted attack.

2:40

The 28-year-old had a map of

2:42

the school. She had noted several

2:44

entry points into the building and we're told

2:47

she was able to get inside of the

2:49

school by shooting through a door.

2:52

We're told, Anderson, that there was a second

2:54

location, another site that the gunman

2:56

was going to visit. However, it appears

2:59

that because she felt that there

3:01

had been additional security at that

3:03

location, the gunman did not

3:05

end up going there. Anderson. And

3:08

what are police saying about a possible motive?

3:11

Yeah, so police out here, the chief of police

3:14

says that they're hoping to detail some of this

3:16

in the coming days, but we're told that

3:19

they have in possession a manifesto

3:21

as well as some other writings that

3:23

detail exactly what this

3:26

shooter wanted to do. We're told that

3:29

she identified as transgender

3:31

and that she was a former student at

3:33

this Christian school and it

3:35

appears that there may have been some sort of resentment

3:38

about the fact that the gunman

3:40

came to the school. That's at least according

3:42

to an interview that the chief of police gave to NBC

3:44

nightly news earlier tonight. Now

3:46

Anderson, we're told that the gunman's

3:49

father has been interviewed and that

3:51

again, police are hoping to relea

3:55

on that manifesto as well as the writings

3:57

in the coming days. And just be clear, you said.

3:59

that the shooter may have resented attending

4:02

the Christian school, is that it?

4:06

Yeah, that's our understanding. So the police chief

4:09

says that they're looking into the possibility that there

4:11

may have been some sort of resentment over

4:13

the fact that the 28 year old gunman at one

4:16

point was a student at

4:18

the school. However, as you can imagine,

4:20

the investigation into this is in its early stages.

4:23

Carlos Suarez, I appreciate it. Thank you for our next

4:25

two guests tonight. Every detail of the story brought

4:27

back memories of fear and loss. Chondell

4:29

Brooks's son was murdered in 2018 in

4:32

a mass shooting at an area waffle house. Aldane

4:34

Brooks lost his brother.

4:36

When this latest shooting happened, Aldane's

4:38

high school, about a mile and a half away, went

4:40

on lockdown. As you might imagine,

4:42

this has not been an easy day for either of them

4:44

or the rest of their family. Aldane and Chondell Brooks

4:46

join us now. Aldane, appreciate both of

4:49

you joining us. I'm sorry, we're

4:51

talking under these circumstances.

4:53

Aldane, can you explain what happened when you were

4:55

in lockdown today?

5:02

Basically, at first

5:04

it was just a,

5:08

at first I thought it was just a regular lockdown.

5:10

Previously we had had a fire

5:12

drill and due

5:15

to a weird smell that was going around in our school and

5:18

I thought that was the cause

5:21

to our lockdown. But

5:22

as me and our

5:25

class and my friends had begun

5:27

to look into

5:29

why the lockdown was caused, there was no

5:32

answers really. We

5:35

began trying to get information

5:37

from people, trying to get information from my

5:40

teacher. And so

5:42

my mom and her friend had called

5:44

and said that they had got a call by the active

5:46

shooter at my school. So

5:48

eventually I went to go ask my teacher

5:51

about if there's an active shooter in my

5:53

school. At the time that had put

5:55

fear into my heart and also my

5:57

fellow students' hearts.

5:59

We didn't know if we were safe. We didn't know

6:02

if somebody was coming

6:04

to kill us or not. It was

6:07

traumatizing. It struck

6:09

us. It

6:12

was... Yeah.

6:16

Shondell, let me ask you, when you heard this

6:18

news,

6:19

where

6:22

were you? And I can't imagine what went through

6:24

your mind.

6:28

man. Um, it

6:33

took me back to when, um,

6:36

you know, when I got the news that my son,

6:38

Akilah, that was killed in the mass shooting

6:40

at the waffle house. It just took me right back to

6:43

that. Um, my heart dropped,

6:45

um, just to hear

6:47

something like that and not knowing where

6:50

and how and what's going on. It was

6:52

devastating. And

6:54

I understand you wanted to go right away

6:57

to Aldale School.

7:01

Yes, just like I did with Akil.

7:03

I took off, I went to the school. I

7:06

told Aldale and I was coming to the school and

7:08

he was like, mom, no, the

7:10

active shooter is still out there. It's

7:14

not safe, but as a mother,

7:16

you know, I just couldn't

7:18

help it. I went over to the school,

7:20

I circled the school, I you know

7:22

circle the area. Yeah.

7:27

I mean it's it's just it's unthinkable.

7:30

You've had this tragedy already with Keela

7:33

and now so close to to

7:35

to this latest tragedy. Shondell,

7:38

I mean you must think about this not only

7:40

the loss of your your son every

7:43

day, but but these shootings every

7:45

day.

7:49

Yeah, um, you

7:53

know, here we are again. Another

7:55

mass shooting. It's... it's...

7:59

it's just...

7:59

Oh my God, it's an epidemic.

8:04

It's something that I think about every day, you

8:06

know, every time that there is a mass shooting.

8:14

It's

8:16

a lot. We're not safe anywhere. We're

8:19

not safe in schools. We're

8:22

not safe when

8:24

we go out to eat. We're not safe in church.

8:27

not safe at the Waffle House. You

8:29

know, I think about it every

8:31

day that I send Aldaine to school. You

8:35

know, Aldaine, I know you and your mom have

8:37

both worked since your brother was

8:39

killed on this

8:41

issue. What message do you want to share with

8:44

families of the victims in Nashville

8:46

tonight?

8:54

I just want to say that the

8:56

pain will forever be will

8:58

be there.

9:00

You just got to. Yeah,

9:03

you're not alone. You just got to keep fighting through it. And

9:05

I

9:06

promise you, you're going to get through it,

9:09

but it's not going to go away. But

9:11

we're here for you. Everybody's here for you to

9:13

always help you.

9:16

And Shondell, that's...

9:18

For you, that's important to the people know that they're not alone

9:21

in this.

9:24

Yeah, we want them to know

9:26

they're not alone. I totally understand how

9:29

they're feeling at this moment, the devastation.

9:33

We

9:37

are here for them. We

9:39

understand this feeling firsthand.

9:44

Shondell and

9:46

Alden, I'm so sorry for

9:49

what you've gone through today and for the loss of your

9:51

son, your brother. I appreciate

9:53

you being with us tonight.

9:56

Thank you for having us. I want

9:58

to get some perspective now. from senior and senior law enforcement

10:01

analyst and former FBI deputy director Andrew

10:03

McCabe. Andrew,

10:06

you know, police talk about this person had a

10:08

so-called manifesto that maybe sounds

10:10

like a kind of glorifying

10:12

word for, was probably just a screed

10:15

in a journal.

10:17

It's pretty common these days though. It's

10:19

kind of a sign of the times that this

10:22

word manifesto is being used now so frequently.

10:25

Shooters do this.

10:28

Yeah, it's frustrating

10:30

too, Anderson, because as you suggest,

10:32

the word almost kind of legitimizes what they're

10:34

doing, if it's some sort of legitimate

10:37

political stance or something. And

10:39

what they are time and time again, and they're very

10:42

common,

10:43

is just a list

10:46

of grievances and anger-soaked

10:49

objections to all sorts of perceived

10:52

slights, things like that. The problem

10:54

is they have outsized significance

10:57

in this community of people who

11:00

are drawn to these expressions

11:02

of mass violence. So we've seen

11:04

it. We've seen mass shooters literally

11:07

copy the things that they've read from

11:09

previous manifestos of previous

11:12

mass shooters and their statements about

11:14

why they've decided to strike out against

11:16

innocent civilians in their

11:18

own community. So it's

11:21

not uncommon. It does give us some insight

11:23

as to what this person's motivation

11:26

may have been. But at the end

11:27

of the day, I don't

11:30

know that it really tells us that much. According

11:33

to police, it was about 14 minutes between the first call

11:35

and when the shooter was killed.

11:37

We don't really know the actual

11:39

arrival time of the police. We're not sure about the

11:42

response time. Obviously, you and I have talked about

11:44

this so often in

11:45

these cases. Response

11:47

time is essential. first minutes,

11:50

that's when most

11:52

people are killed. That's

11:55

absolutely right. And you know,

11:57

this situation shows you, to me it stands

11:59

out. and stark contrast to the

12:02

many conversations you and I've had about involved

12:04

a which was just an example of like really

12:06

poor response by law enforcement here. They

12:09

were there very quickly. They

12:11

exhibited well

12:13

practiced well trained tactical techniques.

12:15

They went in with five people. They covered

12:18

both the first floor and the second floor.

12:21

Excuse me. They also had medical folks

12:23

from from the fire department to play with them. And

12:26

yet, despite that remarkably

12:29

efficient and quick response, we still have

12:31

six innocent people dead.

12:34

So it just proves the point that

12:36

no matter how good law enforcement

12:39

is, they'll never be in

12:41

front of the shooter. They'll never be before

12:43

the shooter. You're constantly trying to

12:45

just limit damages. And when those

12:48

fatalities occur in the first minute of an

12:50

encounter, it's very, very hard

12:52

to stop that. even with the best response. Authorities

12:54

also say that this person had staked

12:57

out this school

12:59

or at least observed it had there were maps.

13:02

Apparently, according to law enforcement at this

13:04

point, and again, this is very early stages

13:06

with what they know, but they say that

13:09

the shooter may have had also another

13:12

target, but decided it had better

13:14

security than this location.

13:17

You know, again, I think this

13:19

is very common. you typically see

13:22

a high level of planning among

13:24

these mass shooters. You think

13:26

back to the individual

13:28

shot up the 4th of July parade in Illinois last

13:31

year, or the top supermarket

13:33

shooter in Buffalo who had gone and conducted surveillance

13:36

at that supermarket in the days

13:38

or weeks prior. So the fact that they

13:40

put in some time and planning and

13:42

that this shooter mapped out where they

13:44

would go and what they would do,

13:46

and possibly indicated a second location

13:49

in the same way that we saw in the Monterey

13:51

Park shooter just a few months ago. This

13:54

is very common planning

13:56

and preparation activity, acquiring the

13:58

weapons, acquiring the ammunition.

13:59

It's oftentimes a special

14:02

clothing. And it's

14:04

shocking that while this is going on, people

14:07

around them and their families and their communities

14:09

don't see these things and bring them to law enforcement's

14:12

attention. That can certainly help. Yeah, Andrew

14:14

McCabe, I appreciate it tonight. Thank you. Next,

14:17

the sheer number of recent mass shootings, what the pandemic

14:19

might have to do with it and what Americans say they want

14:21

done about it, or data reporter Harry

14:24

Enten joins us. So does Senator Chris

14:26

Murphy. Later, how the former president

14:28

is handling the possibility one or more criminal

14:29

indictments in one or more cases, all coming

14:32

toward him soon, it seems. Rage

14:34

is certainly part of the equation, both his and what

14:36

his words on the subject could be stirring in his followers.

14:43

This week on The Assignment with me,

14:45

Adi Cornish. Alfredo Romero,

14:48

headlines from the last couple of weeks

14:50

that surprised you. Well, definitely that

14:53

after the lessons learned in 2007, 2009, we

14:56

still have bank runs. We

15:00

have the second largest bank

15:02

failure in U.S. history and probably

15:05

one of the fastest.

15:06

Listen to the assignment with Audie Cornish

15:09

on Spotify.

15:12

The breaking news this hour, what we're learning about the Nashville

15:14

shooter's apparent resentment, police say, having

15:16

had to attend the Covenant School as a child.

15:19

Nashville's police chief says the 28-year-old

15:21

targeted random people at the school had

15:23

a map identifying surveillance and and entry points

15:25

and left a so-called manifesto

15:28

or journal, the chief says, indicating

15:30

the school was just one of several potential targets.

15:33

So there's all of that. And as we discussed before the break,

15:35

there's also the terrible reality that some families

15:37

have now been touched by these incidents more than once.

15:40

With this now, if not to make sense

15:41

of it all, then at least to talk about the proportions

15:43

of the problem, CNN senior data reporter,

15:46

Harry Anton. So what does the data show about

15:48

the number of school shootings specifically

15:51

since the pandemic? Yeah, so, you know, we have obviously 2022

15:53

and 2023. We

15:55

have 16 school shootings so

15:57

far this year. We had 20 through

15:59

this.

15:59

point in 2022 and I should

16:02

note that that's significantly higher than what we saw

16:04

in the pre-pandemic era, right, where essentially

16:06

we were averaging in the mid to

16:08

high single digits at this point through

16:11

the school year. So the fact is it does

16:13

seem like there's a clear pattern after

16:15

the pandemic whereby the school shootings

16:17

definitely seem up about double

16:19

unfortunately. What about mass shootings in general?

16:22

And I know in terms of the data, I think that's what four

16:24

or more people killed at one time. Yeah, that's

16:26

exactly four or more people shot. Yeah,

16:29

victims. And what we

16:31

know again is we sort of have this pre-pandemic

16:34

and then post-pandemic sort of break

16:36

in the numbers. We've had 130 mass shootings so far this year.

16:40

That is the highest going back over

16:43

the last six years. And more

16:45

than that, what we see is it's even higher than we were

16:47

last year or the year before, which were already

16:50

well up from where we were pre-pandemic. Again,

16:52

we were really averaging sort of in the mid

16:54

double digits, you know, 50, 60 mass

16:57

shootings through this point in the year. what we're seeing since

16:59

the pandemic as we're

16:59

talking, you know, 110, 111, we're talking 130 this year. So

17:04

it's just significantly up, and this is something

17:07

we've seen across the board. We've seen it in cities

17:09

as well, where we've seen crime rates well up from

17:11

pre-pandemic norms. And it just seems like

17:13

in all these different ways, the

17:15

shootings are just up, Anderson. And what

17:18

about gun control? Where do Americans stand

17:20

on that? Yeah, you know, one of the things

17:22

that I think is so, you know, interesting

17:24

as someone who studies the numbers is that

17:27

Democrats, when it comes to gun control, have

17:29

basically stayed steady over the last 20 years

17:31

or so. Essentially, the

17:33

Pew Research Center asked this interesting question,

17:35

which is, is it more important to protect

17:37

the right to own guns or control gun ownership?

17:40

And when it comes to protecting the right to own guns,

17:42

only about 20% of Democrats thought it was

17:45

more important to

17:47

protect the right to own guns than

17:50

control gun ownership in 2000. That's

17:53

about the same percentage now. But if you look at Republicans,

17:56

The number, the percentage is way up. It was about 40%

17:58

back 20. 22 years

18:00

ago, and now it's close to 80%. And

18:03

so, you know, when we come to the issue

18:05

of how are we supposed to deal with all of this, the fact

18:07

is the two parties are farther apart than they've ever

18:09

been. And I think part of the reason why we really haven't

18:11

seen much movement is because it just doesn't

18:13

seem like there's very much that can bring the two parties

18:16

together, Anderson, on the fundamental question about

18:18

the right to own guns versus controlling gun ownership.

18:21

Ariant and appreciate it. Thank you. Connecticut Democratic

18:24

Senator Chris Murphy joins us now. As we mentioned before

18:26

the break, he helped pass last year's bipartisan

18:28

gun safety bill the wake of the shootings at Rob

18:29

Elementary School in Yuvaldi. Senator

18:32

Murphy, you've obviously been working on gun

18:34

safety for a long time. What is going

18:36

through your mind tonight?

18:40

Well, listen, obviously in

18:42

Connecticut 10 years later, we are still reeling

18:45

from the massacre in Sandy Hook

18:47

Elementary School. There's

18:49

something uniquely cataclysmic when you lose a child,

18:52

when you lose a family member, but it's also

18:54

important to remember that all the kids

18:56

in that school, the adults in that school are never ever

18:59

going to be the same. That entire community is going

19:01

to experience trauma that's going to stay

19:03

with them for a very, very long time.

19:05

And so, you know, I've stayed very close

19:08

to the victims in Connecticut, but

19:10

I'm frankly equally as close to the victims

19:12

of everyday gun violence, the suicides,

19:15

the homicides, the accidental shootings. It

19:17

also doesn't hurt any less if your

19:19

child dies on the streets of Hartford or New

19:21

Orleans or Baltimore than it does if your child

19:23

dies in a mass shooting at a school. So it's

19:26

important for us all to to remember that this is happening

19:28

every single day and every single night in America. You

19:30

worked with Republican Senator John Cornyn in the last

19:32

Congress to pass bipartisan gun safety legislation

19:35

to law. He said today, and I'm quoting

19:37

him, he said, I would say that we've gone

19:39

about as far as we can go unless somebody

19:42

identifies some

19:42

area that we didn't address. How

19:45

do you respond to that?

19:49

Well, I mean, first, let me just bring up the

19:51

poll that Harry

19:53

referenced. I have a great deal of respect for Harry, But that's

19:57

that poll which sort of gets thrown

19:59

out there all the.

19:59

time, it just infuriates me because

20:02

it's asking people a question that

20:04

doesn't actually exist. The question in that

20:07

Pew poll is, do you think you should

20:09

protect people from gun violence or do you think

20:11

we should respect the rights of gun hunters?

20:14

In fact, you can do both at the same time.

20:16

And so I'm never sure how relevant the answer

20:18

to that poll is other than Republicans

20:21

increasingly think that as Republicans,

20:23

they're supposed to answer one way and Democrats increasingly

20:25

think as Democrats, they're supposed to answer

20:28

the other way. The reality is most

20:29

Americans think you should do both. You

20:32

should respect the Second Amendment. You

20:33

shouldn't take guns away from law abiding citizens,

20:36

but you should make sure that criminals and people who

20:38

are seriously mentally ill don't get their hands on guns

20:40

and that we should take these military

20:42

style assault weapons off the streets. I

20:45

think we can still continue to work to find common

20:47

ground. Obviously we made a breakthrough last year. The bill

20:49

we passed, the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act is

20:51

the first significant anti-gun

20:54

violence legislation in 30 years. I

20:56

understand that was a difficult vote for some Republicans

20:59

the first time that they ever crossed the NRA, but

21:01

I think they've seen that the sky hasn't fallen.

21:03

And I take John and his word that he's continuing

21:07

to show interest in finding common ground

21:09

where we can find it. And maybe we'll

21:11

be able to get there and build on the success

21:13

of last year's bill. What might some

21:16

of that common ground look like? I mean,

21:18

what is sort of the, I mean,

21:21

what are some of the areas?

21:24

Yeah, I think it's hard for me

21:26

to negotiate with my Republican colleagues

21:29

on live TV. Probably not a good

21:31

idea. We'll work hard to try to find it. I think everybody

21:34

needs to remember that right before you've

21:37

all the... People would have put the chances

21:39

of a gun bill passing

21:42

Congress in 2022 at about zero to 5%.

21:46

And then we worked hard at trying to figure out what

21:49

our common denominator was. I

21:51

think we can build on that. I do think

21:54

folks in this country are just

21:56

furious about the way in which these AR-15s

21:58

continue to be used. in these mass

22:01

shootings. I'm not saying that we have the votes in the

22:03

House and the Senate right now to ban assault

22:05

weapons, but I do think there are some things

22:07

that could get bipartisan

22:09

support. Like, shouldn't you have some training

22:12

on one of these weapons before you're

22:14

able to pick it up and bring it out

22:16

into public? I mean, we require

22:19

you to get training to drive a boat,

22:21

to drive a car, but not to have a military

22:23

style weapon that can kill 100 people

22:26

in five minutes. I think you could find bipartisan

22:29

support for something

22:29

like that. And we'll work hard this year to try to find

22:32

that common ground. I just spoke with two

22:34

people, Shondell and Aldaine Brooks, whose

22:36

son and brother was killed in 2018 in

22:39

a mass shooting at an area waffle house. Shondell

22:43

said that we're not safe anywhere. Those were her

22:45

words. I

22:47

mean, what do you say to families who

22:50

have lived through this already

22:52

and are now having their children

22:55

still in lockdowns nearby

22:57

schools where there's been a shooting?

23:01

Well, and think of all of the kids who

23:04

live today in neighborhoods that are violent

23:06

every single day. I live

23:09

in the South end of Hartford, a neighborhood

23:12

that has high rates of gun violence. I visited the

23:14

local K through eight school in my neighborhood

23:16

just a few months ago. And I talked

23:18

to some of the kids there, six,

23:21

seven craters, all they wanted to talk to me about was their

23:23

walk to and from school every single

23:25

day. they fear for their lives just

23:28

by walking to school and walking home

23:30

at the end of the day. Frankly,

23:31

for them, school is the safe

23:34

place. It's outside the school where

23:36

they fear for their lives. I just, I

23:38

know that our cause is righteous. I know

23:41

that eventually we are going to pass legislation

23:43

that funds anti-gun violence programming

23:45

in every neighborhood. I know we are

23:47

gonna take these dangerous weapons off the streets. I

23:50

know we're gonna have universal background checks. I

23:52

hate that kids and parents and families have to

23:54

join this movement in order to make that happen,

23:56

but the anti-gun violence movement is getting stronger

23:59

every single day.

23:59

every single year and eventually we will get the laws

24:02

to reflect the

24:04

morality and the values of this nation. Senator

24:07

Chris Murphy, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

24:10

Thank you. We're gonna continue to follow the story as it

24:12

develops throughout the hour. Next, a key figure

24:14

meeting with the New York grand jury today in the Manhattan

24:16

district attorney's criminal investigation to hush

24:18

money allegations involving the former president.

24:20

We'll be right

24:21

back. We'll have much more on the tragedy of

24:23

Nashville as the story develops. Right now we wanna bring

24:25

you the latest on a possible criminal indictment of the former

24:28

president. Late this afternoon, we learned the name of

24:30

the witness who met with Manhattan grand jury, someone

24:32

who knew the former president very well, senior

24:35

justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us now. So

24:37

talk about the witness and why

24:40

they're relevant.

24:41

Well, Anderson, the witness is David Packer.

24:43

He is the former chairman

24:45

of American Media, the parent company

24:48

of National Enquirer. And he was key

24:51

as part of this effort to keep Stormy

24:53

Daniels' story from becoming

24:56

public back in 2016 the days before

24:59

the 2016 election. He allegedly

25:01

brokered the payment, the $130,000 Hush Money payment to Stormy Daniels to

25:03

try to

25:08

make sure her story didn't come out. And according

25:10

to his version and version from what

25:13

we've heard from Michael Cohen, the

25:15

former president's fixer, he

25:18

essentially got paid, sorry,

25:20

he got paid from Michael Cohen that

25:23

$130,000 to make sure that that story never came out. The

25:28

last known witness to appear before the grand

25:30

jury was a former legal adviser, Michael Cohen's.

25:34

Do we know how Pekka fits into all this? I mean,

25:36

it seems clearly that Pekka was brought

25:39

in to rebut some of what

25:41

that attorney had said. Right, exactly.

25:44

Bob Costello said that he appeared

25:46

as a witness to undercut

25:48

the credibility of Michael Cohen, who is of course the

25:51

most important witness in this investigation

25:53

so far Anderson. In

25:55

the case of Pekker, it's believed that

25:57

he could be somebody who could re- but

26:00

some of the testimony from Bob Castilla,

26:03

obviously he was involved in helping

26:05

broker that payment to Stormy Daniels

26:08

and to make sure that that story didn't

26:10

come out before the 2016 election. So

26:13

presumably he would be there to

26:15

help at least underscore and help

26:18

shore up the version of events that

26:20

Michael Cohen has told. And despite the fact,

26:22

obviously, Michael Cohen has his own credibility

26:24

problems. So what happens now? Because the grand

26:27

jury only meets a couple of days are

26:29

there. Right. They

26:31

were scheduled to meet today. And as far as

26:33

we know, there was no indictment returned today.

26:36

They're scheduled to meet again on Wednesday. They also

26:39

may be able to meet on Thursday, Anderson.

26:42

What we don't know is when this

26:44

case might be wrapped up, whether there's going to be an

26:47

indictment, and whether it's going to happen anytime

26:49

soon. We do know that, obviously,

26:51

the fact that Pekka, who has appeared a couple of times

26:54

in In this case, he's an important

26:56

witness because of his central role in it.

26:59

It does appear

26:59

that the prosecutors are nearly

27:02

at the end of their presentation

27:04

on this case, Anderson. Right. I'm

27:07

impressed. Appreciate it. House

27:10

Director of Communications for the former president and

27:12

Jessica Roth, a former federal prosecutor.

27:15

Jessica, clearly he was brought in. I mean, Costello

27:19

was casting doubt on Michael Cohen's

27:21

testimony. Michael Cohen had said this

27:23

was, harsh money payment was paid in

27:26

order to not have some bad news come out

27:29

that could damage Trump in the election. Csello

27:31

saying, well, Michael Cohen told me it

27:33

was Michael Cohen's idea

27:36

and it was to avoid Melania Trump being upset.

27:39

So this testimony, I think, was very important

27:41

to shore up the credibility of Michael Cohen's testimony

27:44

that the payments were related to the campaign.

27:47

That's the most significant testimony that

27:49

David Pecker has to offer. AMI

27:51

where he worked, entered into a non-prosecution

27:54

agreement with the federal government several years ago when

27:56

they were initially investigating Michael Cohen for these

27:58

payments. agreement,

28:00

AMI agreed that these were campaign-related

28:03

expenditures.

28:03

So as part of that agreement, does he have

28:06

to show up to testify? He has

28:08

to be cooperative. And so presumably

28:11

the federal government is asking him to be cooperative

28:13

with other prosecutors as well.

28:15

Alyssa, I mean, does an

28:17

indictment, I mean, over the weekend,

28:20

people at this rally Trump held

28:22

at Waco were saying that an indictment would

28:24

actually spur them on to support the former president.

28:27

Do you buy that?

28:28

I don't buy that necessarily. I mean, listen,

28:30

he's the front runner at this point. He's polling

28:32

above 40% significantly higher than the next

28:35

person behind him. I think it's very

28:37

likely at this juncture he would get the nomination,

28:40

the elections far out, but this is

28:42

what matters in this moment. Is Donald Trump

28:44

chose to use specific language in the last

28:46

couple of weeks leading up to this possible

28:49

coming indictment that is once again calling

28:51

for violence. It echoes the language he used ahead of

28:53

January 6th. I know the man, you

28:55

know him decently well. His intent

28:57

there is extremely clear. We know it from

28:59

January 6th. He's

29:00

being clearer than ever before. Than ever before.

29:03

And it didn't materialize. What that signals

29:05

to me is that, and it didn't materialize, what

29:07

that signals to me is that he thought that there

29:09

was a base there that was gonna come out. They were gonna storm

29:11

New York wherever it might be. And people

29:14

aren't turning out because this is a Donald Trump grievance. This

29:16

is his wrongdoing catching up with him. It's

29:18

not the same as lying about the election being

29:20

stolen and people coming out to rally. So I

29:22

think it might be a sign that in some ways he is weakened,

29:25

but at the same time he's still the front runner.

29:26

I just wanna read something he said A

29:29

reporter for NBC asked him over the weekend,

29:31

the rally, whether violence would be potentially justifiable

29:34

if he were indicted. And he responded, quote,

29:36

and this is so classic, him, I don't like violence

29:39

and I'm not for violence at all, but

29:41

a lot of people are upset. And you know, they rigged

29:43

an election, they stole an election, they spied on

29:45

my campaign, they did many bad things.

29:47

Yeah, the butt's doing the heavy lifting there. I

29:50

mean, it's just, it's classic Donald Trump

29:52

taking him at his word. He's not being coy

29:54

about what he wants to happen, but it's not materializing,

29:57

because this is a mess of his own making that's catching up with

29:59

him. and bye.

29:59

And by the way, from unsolicited

30:02

reaching out that I get from Trump world, they're

30:04

nervous about this. They really are. They

30:06

thought this was a case that was dead up until a few months ago. They

30:09

thought they were going to get by and of all the investigations,

30:11

it was what they were probably least worried about. Now they're

30:13

realizing this is the one that's going to

30:14

likely come true. Jessica, in terms of the law, does

30:17

it matter if

30:20

the former president didn't want

30:22

this news to come out because he was annoyed,

30:25

he was worried Melania Trump

30:27

would be upset, he didn't want to

30:29

embarrass you know his kids. He

30:33

wouldn't say he's felt a sense of shame because I don't think

30:35

you feel shame. Does it

30:37

does that and he

30:39

cared about the it affecting the election

30:42

if there were other reasons other than just

30:44

the election does that

30:46

make him. If it's for

30:48

the purpose of of affecting the

30:50

campaign but that's what matters here

30:53

and there's lots

30:53

of other there can be other

30:55

issues involved as well as long as the

30:57

campaign was involved? The question is, would it have

31:00

been made but for the election? That is with the legal

31:02

test. And so it does matter if there were other

31:04

reasons. But there's really good evidence

31:06

that it was made because of the campaign.

31:09

Stormy Daniels had come forward before

31:11

and asked for payment, and he refused

31:13

to pay her. And it was only as things

31:15

were heating up with the 2016 campaign, and in

31:17

particular, right after the release of the Access Hollywood

31:20

tape, which had done considerable damage to

31:22

his campaign, that he decided now was

31:24

the time that he had to make sure that she didn't come forward.

31:27

I think there is very strong evidence that this was

31:29

a campaign-related expenditure, and that's also

31:31

where Pekker comes in so prominently,

31:33

because he's already testified that this

31:35

was coordinated with the Trump campaign for

31:38

the purpose of influencing the election.

31:39

Right. It was David Pekker who was initially approached

31:42

by a representative for Stormy Daniels.

31:44

Right. And this is something that, I mean,

31:47

as you state, Trump could have dealt with sooner. He waited

31:49

to, and because of that, it stepped into the legal

31:51

murky area of being a campaign finance violation.

31:54

I think it's strange credulity to claim

31:56

that he was doing it to protect his wife.

31:59

something I think we've seen throughout the course of his public

32:02

life, I think it's not it's

32:05

I think we know what direction this indictment is going to go I don't

32:07

want to get ahead of it, but I also want to caution,

32:09

I don't think this is the strongest case against Donald Trump

32:11

of the many pending investigations. This is

32:13

not what's going to keep him out of office again.

32:15

How how difficult is this case

32:17

to actually put in front of a jury. It's

32:20

going to be a very challenging case and there are a number of

32:23

of legal issues that the district attorney's office going to

32:25

have to overcome with respect to the charge

32:27

that it seems that they are contemplating related

32:29

to the campaign finance violation, which of course would

32:31

be a matter of federal law incorporated essentially

32:34

into a state prosecution.

32:35

Which has not been done. There's

32:38

some precedent for it, but not that actually been

32:40

tested all the way up through the courts. In other words,

32:42

there have been pleas that reflected a similar charge,

32:44

but hasn't really been fully litigated. And

32:47

then as a factual matter, they are going to be relying on

32:49

Michael Cohen, and he is a problematic witness,

32:52

which is why it is so important that he be corroborated

32:54

by other witnesses like David Pecker and by

32:56

the documents in the case. And also Kellyanne

32:59

Conway, I believe, from the campaign also has testified

33:01

before the grand jury, who would be another important witness

33:04

to corroborate that this was

33:05

coordinated with the Trump campaign. Just a scurrath.

33:07

Appreciate it. Elizabeth Hart Griffin, thanks

33:09

so much. Coming up in the next hour, tune into Aaron Burnett's

33:12

interview with the attorney for the Fox producer who's

33:14

suing the network and was just fired from the company. It's

33:16

coming up on Aaron Burnett out front next. For

33:19

us, our Nick Robertson in Israel on this

33:21

massive protest there and what comes next after Israel's

33:23

prime minister delayed controversial

33:25

new judicial reforms as a result.

33:31

Look, people on social media love to post

33:34

about the news. But there's really

33:36

no substitute for going to the story

33:38

and talking to the people living it. I'm David

33:41

Rind, host of the podcast CNN One Thing.

33:44

Each Sunday, I pull aside a CNN reporter

33:46

who has been doing just that, and we tackle one

33:48

story that's been making headlines. Think of it

33:50

as a deep dive, but digestible, so

33:52

you can get on with your week armed with the facts.

33:55

To listen, tell your device, play the

33:57

podcast CNN One Thing

34:01

Massive protests

34:03

and labor strikes across Israel have led the countries and

34:06

battle prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu to

34:08

delay a controversial package of judicial

34:10

reforms. The White House praised the news

34:12

as a much welcome compromise to protests that

34:14

have been both widespread and historic. The

34:17

latest protests have essentially brought Israel to

34:19

a standstill. CNN international diplomatic

34:21

editor Nick Robertson is in Jerusalem with

34:23

the latest extraordinary scenes Nick in Israel

34:26

over the last several days. what this is about.

34:29

Well, and this has really come

34:32

to a head earlier today when they had the

34:34

biggest protests that the country has witnessed

34:36

so far. And it was precipitated by

34:39

the prime minister sacking the minister

34:41

of defense because he spoke out against

34:43

the judicial reforms. He told the prime

34:46

minister that he wanted them, the prime minister

34:48

to pause those reforms. It

34:50

was when he fired the defense chief

34:52

that the protesters realized that they

34:55

needed to move. And that's

34:57

precisely what happened. And it's very interesting

34:59

that Prime Minister Netanyahu

35:01

has now actually called for a pause.

35:03

He hasn't said who's going to replace the defence

35:06

minister, but he has said that anyone

35:08

that takes that position or security

35:11

position needs to be loyal to

35:13

him.

35:14

I am

35:16

demanding from the military

35:19

and the security to put an

35:21

end to refusal to

35:23

serve in the army, to stop

35:25

it.

35:27

That's a bottom line for Netanyahu, but

35:29

what we really haven't heard are any of the details

35:32

of where despite the delay

35:34

in these judicial reforms, where's the

35:36

compromise that he's talked about as well? He

35:38

said that he's heard from opposition leaders

35:41

who are willing to engage with him, but we

35:43

don't know the

35:44

details of what they'll engage in yet, Anderson.

35:46

It also seems like these protests have gone

35:49

beyond just judicial reforms.

35:51

The issues are larger than that.

35:54

You know what what I found fascinating

35:56

today was talking to some of the pro-government

35:58

supporters

35:59

time they've come out. They've come out because they've been

36:02

urged to do so by some of the ministers.

36:05

And they use a narrative that's

36:07

the same narrative that the Prime Minister uses,

36:09

that it is a minority that

36:12

didn't vote for the government that's opposed

36:14

to the government. It's this minority

36:17

that's trying to derail

36:19

the government, derail the reforms.

36:21

And this is not democratic. And

36:24

speaking to some of those pro-government

36:27

supporters today, they again talk about

36:29

that

36:29

minority that's trying to,

36:32

you know, trying to steal democracy

36:34

away. So there's this real divided

36:37

logic and deep divisions

36:39

within the country. And that's what causes

36:41

here the heartache,

36:45

if you will, that the country is so divided

36:47

and so divided on

36:50

a schism that doesn't seem to

36:52

have an easy fix in it. The anti-Nanyahu

36:56

protesters, though, are saying that

36:58

his government it is too far to

36:59

the right than then

37:02

and it's a coalition of the right as

37:04

opposed to what what their

37:06

perspective is.

37:08

That's really true

37:11

and you know again one of the interesting

37:13

things when you listen to those pro-right

37:16

supporters of the government they actually don't even want Netanyahu

37:19

to pause he think they they

37:21

think he is giving in to to

37:24

this minority this minority

37:26

that that we've seen in thousands

37:29

upon thousands flocking to

37:31

the streets all across the country, a

37:34

lot of them in Tel Aviv. And that

37:36

also shows you as well a little bit, I

37:38

think, that

37:38

the divisions that exist between Jerusalem

37:41

and Tel Aviv, these are not new divisions,

37:45

but it's the narrative of division

37:47

that is becoming stronger. And although

37:50

it is over judicial

37:52

reforms, I was talking to ex-servicemen

37:54

today, guy who'd been in the paratroopers he told

37:57

me for four years and he said he absolutely.

37:59

hates seeing the military

38:03

politicized in the way that

38:05

is happening right now. So it touches

38:07

a lot of core issues and you can really see none

38:10

of this is gonna be resolved easily. What's happened

38:12

is the decision day has been

38:14

delayed. The differences haven't

38:17

been ameliorated at all. Nick

38:19

Robertson, appreciate it. Thank you. Up next, a new

38:21

round of powerful storms forecast for the South

38:24

after more than two dozen people were killed in tornadoes

38:26

that hit Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee over the weekend.

38:28

One town in Mississippi,

38:29

particularly Heart Hit,

38:31

the latest on the destruction ahead.

38:33

More on the deadly school shooting in Nashville

38:35

coming up, but first a new round of severe weather

38:37

hit the South today. This comes after tornadoes

38:40

tore through Mississippi and Alabama over the weekend,

38:42

killing 26 people. In Rolling

38:44

Fork, Mississippi and entire neighborhoods are wiped

38:47

away with the local officials saying it looks like

38:49

a war zone. It's not the only town

38:51

left in ruins. CNN's Isabel Rosales

38:54

reports now from Heart Hit, Mississippi.

38:57

Okay, you're looking at where right

38:59

here is where the house was sitting and

39:02

the steps were

39:05

right in front of the sidewalk right there.

39:08

Devastation after violent storms ripped through the southeastern

39:11

part of the US over the weekend, demolishing

39:13

homes and killing dozens. Everything

39:15

gone. You look

39:17

around, I mean, we

39:20

have nothing. Nothing.

39:23

Joanne Winston lost her 2 year old great

39:26

niece Aubrey when an EF4 tornado

39:28

hit Mississippi late Friday night, impacting

39:30

the towns of Amory, Rolling Fork and

39:32

Silver City. Winston says she

39:35

found Aubrey among the debris.

39:37

And I didn't see no house, no nothing. And

39:40

I looked around and I seen the baby laying

39:43

a little bit from her mom, from

39:46

her grandma. You saw them doing CPR

39:49

on Aubrey? Yes. That must

39:51

have been horrible to see. was I

39:53

had walked away.

39:54

Aubrey's mother was in the hospital when the storm hit, giving

39:57

birth to a newborn just hours after

39:59

losing her two. year-old daughter. Even

40:01

though my knees gone, I'm glad she's

40:03

not suffering.

40:08

It could have been worse. My whole family was

40:10

here. Winston's niece, Jessica drain

40:12

also spoke to CNN. Drain says her eight

40:15

year old son was in the same mobile home as two

40:17

year old Aubrey with her parents. He

40:19

is now in critical condition on a ventilator.

40:22

He has severe brain injury.

40:24

They had to go in and take parts of his goal

40:27

out. He's been through surgery. Yeah, he's

40:29

been through surgery. They say more they say

40:31

he's going to be about 3 or 4 more. Other

40:34

families also torn apart by the deadly

40:36

storms. Ethan Herndon and his one-year-old

40:38

daughter Riley were both killed when a tornado

40:41

hit their mobile home. His wife and

40:43

their 2 other children

40:44

survived. David

40:47

Brown's parents were killed after their neighbors

40:50

18 Wheeler landed on their rolling fork

40:52

home during the storm.

40:54

Wars can't express what I'm feeling. It's

40:56

broken and unknown. I know

40:58

that they're in heaven right

41:02

now.

41:03

And

41:06

I was told that they passed away in each other's

41:08

hearts. Jessica Drain and Joanne

41:10

Winston hoping their family and others

41:13

can get help. The only thing I

41:15

can say is for

41:17

people to pray for us and

41:20

pray that we get through this and start

41:23

a new life, start over. And

41:26

Isabella Rosales joins us now from Silver City,

41:28

Mississippi. I mean, it's just, those

41:31

scenes are just awful. We saw

41:33

in your piece that Caleb is only eight years old, still

41:35

in critical condition. Understand this

41:37

family is seeking medical help. What more

41:39

can you tell us?

41:42

Anderson, this family is just going through so

41:45

much. Caleb is seriously hurt. He's

41:47

still in the ICU, he's on a ventilator. He's

41:49

got a severe brain injury. As you heard,

41:51

he still needs a couple of more surgeries.

41:54

So as you can imagine, these medical bills will be starting

41:56

to add up. That is why his mother

41:58

started a GoFundMe.

41:59

page to try to help and raise money

42:02

for those medical bills. So she's asking

42:04

anyone who is able to help to

42:06

consider donating

42:07

Anderson. It's on the screen here.

42:09

Caleb's expenses is Bill Rosales. Appreciate

42:11

him. Thank you. When we come back, more

42:14

breaking news from police in Nashville. Some late

42:16

new details and pictures just released by

42:18

the police there.

42:19

Police in Nashville have just released

42:21

two photographs. One shows the front of the covenant

42:24

school, one of the glass doors shatter, they say, when

42:26

the shooter opened fire to gain access. The other

42:28

photo, they say, shows the killer's car in the school

42:31

parking lot. This is where they say they

42:33

found what they described as additional material

42:35

written by the killer. Also, just moments

42:37

ago, President Biden ordered flags at the White House

42:40

and all federal buildings be lowered to have staff

42:42

to honor the victims. The news continues. Erin

42:44

Burnett out front starts now.