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0:32

THEY HAVE TAKEN CHILDREN FROM THE COUNTRY THEY

0:35

INVADED, BOSTED ABOUT DOING IT, EVEN

0:37

HELPED TELEVIS CELEBRATIONS SHOWING

0:39

THEIR VICTIMS. Now Russia's president

0:41

and the official who has overseen the forced

0:44

deportation of thousands of kids from

0:46

Ukraine to Russia IN HER CAPACITY

0:48

IS THE ORWELLION TITLED COMMISSIONER FOR

0:50

CHILDREN'S RIGHTS ARE BOTH FACING WAR

0:53

CRIMINAL COURT

0:55

which has issued warrants

0:57

for their arrest.

0:59

So

1:00

is the message today that nobody is

1:02

above the law? I think the message

1:04

must be the basic principles of humanity

1:06

bind everybody, and nobody

1:08

should feel they have a free pass.

1:09

AND AS 360 KONG,

1:12

THE ICC'S CHIEF PROSECUTOR. WE SPOKE

1:14

TO HIM AT THE START OF THIS ENVASION WHEN

1:16

HE WAS IN UKRAIN AND HAVE REPORTED extensively

1:19

throughout the invasion on Russia's war on

1:21

the Ukrainian people and identity. Tonight,

1:23

an exclusive conversation with him on

1:25

his history making day along

1:27

with coverage as only CNN can of

1:30

the impact of it. First though, very

1:32

quickly, here's what President Biden just said

1:34

about the ICC's decision to CNN's

1:36

Jeremy

1:37

Diamond. Well, I

1:39

think it's justified in it, but the question

1:41

is not recognized internationally

1:43

by us either.

1:44

But I think it makes a

1:46

very strong point.

1:48

With that, let's go to CNN chief

1:50

international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, who

1:52

got the exclusive interview.

1:53

She joins us from the Hague,

1:55

a Clarissa, an historic interview

1:58

for you. Historic

2:02

interview for us and a historic

2:05

day for the International Criminal

2:07

Court, the ICC, when we sat

2:09

down and had an extensive conversation

2:12

with the chief prosecutor, 360

2:14

Khan, who said this is the first

2:17

time that the sitting head of

2:19

state of a permanent member

2:21

of the United Nations Security Council

2:24

has been issued with an arrest sworn

2:26

by the ICC, and it's all the more

2:28

significant. Because this isn't

2:30

happening years after the war

2:33

in Ukraine finished, John. This

2:35

is happening months after

2:37

it started. And what Han is

2:39

hoping is that this will really start to set

2:42

a new precedent TO SHOW THAT

2:44

THE 360 OF JUSTICE CAN TURN

2:46

QUICKLY. TAKE A LOOK. Reporter: THIS

2:50

FEELS LIKE A HISTORIC MOMENT. Well,

2:53

think it is a very important moment

2:55

as the President said that these

2:57

warrants have been issued and it shows that

3:00

individuals, whatever their position, however

3:03

high, don't have a free

3:05

pass and that the law binds

3:07

us to some basic principles.

3:08

So I think it is 360 for

3:10

that reason and many others.

3:11

What

3:11

is the next step now?

3:14

What happens next? Well, the next

3:16

step is that these worms will be

3:19

have to be circulated, and

3:22

states will have to consider

3:25

whether they can enforce those warrants. But

3:28

also we continue our investigations. There's many

3:30

other crimes in Ukraine that we're looking

3:32

at, and we also have some other options if

3:35

the warrants are not complied with. Regarding

3:37

applications for confirmation hearing in

3:39

absence in

3:40

the future. Do you believe it's

3:42

possible that one day

3:44

360 will see president Vladimir

3:46

Putin in the dark? I

3:48

think those that think is impossible fail

3:52

to understand history 360 the

3:55

major Nazi war criminals, Milosevic,

3:57

Credich, Miladich, former President Charles

3:59

Taylor, John Kebanda from

4:01

Rwanda, he's in 360, all of them were

4:04

360 powerful individuals and

4:07

yet they found themselves in courtrooms whose

4:09

conduct was being adjudicated over

4:11

by independent judges. And that

4:13

also gives cause for hope that

4:15

the law can,

4:17

however difficult it may

4:19

be, the law can be supreme

4:22

So is

4:22

the message today that nobody is

4:24

above the law? I think the message

4:27

must be that basic principles of humanity

4:29

bind everybody. And nobody

4:31

should feel they have a free pass. Nobody should

4:34

feel they can act with abandon. And

4:36

definitely 360 should

4:39

feel that they can act and

4:42

commit genocide or crimes against 360

4:44

war crimes within 360. Because

4:46

we have an international criminal court. We also

4:49

have basic norms of 360

4:51

international law. And there's

4:53

many different fora around the world. Which

4:55

is reducing the

4:58

scope and the room for

5:00

impunity and fewer and fewer

5:02

safe havens So I think that's an important

5:04

lesson that we need to render

5:06

effective. It feels

5:08

significant that we're talking about

5:10

this in terms

5:12

of months and not years.

5:15

Often, the feeling is that international

5:18

law particularly is a sort of slow

5:20

moving beast. Was

5:23

that very intentional for you to try

5:25

to start these

5:28

things these investigations moving

5:30

as quickly as possible with Ukraine? Absolutely.

5:32

Not not because it's Ukraine. I've been on

5:34

the defense. I've been representing victims

5:38

for 360 years. I've been embarrassed her. And

5:40

international law has

5:42

been effective in some cases, in many

5:44

cases. But I think the ICC has

5:48

been pedestrian in some respects

5:50

and we need to accelerate. And think that's

5:52

very important for us. If we feel that the law

5:55

is for us, as prosecutors,

5:57

as judges, as Defense

6:00

Council or victims lawyers. And we don't

6:02

feel the weight of responsibility that

6:04

there are people in refugee camps or crossing

6:07

borders with plastic bags with children in

6:09

arms and grandparents

6:11

and they're fleeing with fear.

6:14

We're not fulfilling our responsibilities. Under

6:16

the law, but also as members

6:19

of humanity as well as we should.

6:22

And this is about justice

6:23

for victims, not about

6:25

360 it takes. Absolutely. 360 must

6:27

be. The law must be about and particularly

6:29

criminal law must be about victims

6:31

and survivors in humanity.

6:34

Such an important discussion, such an important

6:36

moment, Clarissa, what has the reaction

6:39

been, though, from the Kremlin to these charges?

6:44

Well,

6:44

perhaps unsurprisingly, John,

6:47

it has not been positive. We

6:49

have heard from 360 Pesc off who, of course,

6:51

is president Putin's spokesperson. He

6:54

has said 360 that the warrants

6:56

are outrageous and unacceptable.

6:58

We also heard from Maria Zajara. WHO'S

7:01

THE SPOKE PERSON FOR THE FAREND

7:03

360 WHO SAID THAT THEY HAVE NO

7:05

MEANING BECAUSE RUSSIA IS NOT ACTUALLY

7:09

you know, is not a signature of the

7:12

ICC's Rome statute, and

7:14

therefore, is does not fall under its jurisdiction.

7:17

And we heard FROM

7:19

THE WOMAN HERSELF, THE HIGH

7:21

COMMISSIONER FOR CHILDREN OF RUSSIA 360

7:24

LOVOO VILLA WHO HAD A SORT OF

7:26

castic response saying it's great that the

7:28

international community appreciates

7:31

our work. So, fairly sardonic,

7:34

but I think beneath that, one

7:36

can be sure that there is an understanding

7:39

that at the very least, this is an

7:41

irritant that certainly will have

7:43

some concrete impact. Whether

7:46

or not we see president Putin in the dock,

7:48

it's a significant day,

7:49

John. You know, in theory or on

7:51

paper, it limits where

7:54

Putin can go around the

7:56

world. Explain that.

8:00

So 360, there are a hundred and

8:02

twenty three nation states

8:06

that do participate with the ICC

8:08

and the Rome Statute. Shoe. Right? And that's

8:10

about two thirds of the country in the world.

8:12

Some very big ones do not, not just

8:14

Russia, by the way, China 360, and,

8:17

of course, the US. So can president

8:19

Putin still go to the g twenty in India

8:21

that's upcoming? Yes, he can. Could he still

8:23

potentially go to the,

8:25

you know, night United Nations General Assembly

8:28

in New York City. Potentially, yes,

8:31

he could. And also it's important to

8:33

underscore that even for those countries

8:35

that are signatures, that doesn't

8:37

mean necessarily that they would have

8:39

to enact those warrants. We saw this

8:41

back in two thousand seventeen with South

8:44

Africa when, you

8:46

know, the 360 dictator, Omar Ghashir,

8:49

visited and there had been an expectation or

8:51

hope that potentially he would be arrested.

8:53

That did not happen. They cited the fact that

8:55

he was ahead of state and they said that South Africa

8:57

has its own laws retaining to

9:00

heads of state having diplomatic immunity.

9:03

But make no bones about

9:05

it, John. The reality is that president

9:07

Putin's world IS SHRINKING.

9:09

JUST SO PEOPLE KNOW ON THIS MAP, THE 360 IN

9:11

RED THERE ARE THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE

9:13

SIGNED ON, THE COUNTRIES NOT IN RED, HAVENT

9:16

THAT DOESN'T CLUE, INDIA. CHINA.

9:18

THE, YOU KNOW, RUSSIA,

9:20

THE UNITED STATES AND VERY BIG COUNTRY IS

9:22

NOT PART OF IT.

9:23

Reporter:

9:23

CLARISSA, IN AN ADDRESS LAST NIGHT, THE U. 360. PRESIDENT

9:26

ZOLINSKI 360, QUOTE, The day will

9:28

come when all the perpetrators of war

9:30

crimes against 360 will be brought to

9:32

justice in the halls of the International

9:34

Criminal Court and National Court.

9:36

So HOW IS THIS DECISION?

9:38

HOW OF THESE CHARGES BEEN RECEIVED TODAY

9:40

IN UUERAINE? WELL,

9:44

WITH GREAT POSITIVITY 360, Ukraine

9:47

is also not part not

9:49

one of the senators of the ICC. And

9:51

yet, they have opened up their country and

9:54

said that they give them full jurisdiction to

9:56

their territory because they understand the importance

9:59

of having some of these crimes

10:01

paid attention to. Now the 360 of staff of the

10:04

presidency said, look, this is an important first

10:06

step, but it's just a first step

10:08

360. A lot more needs to happen. This

10:11

isn't just one single war

10:13

crime that's being investigated, and that's something

10:15

that's also important to emphasize, John.

10:18

Is that, you know, the ICC is

10:20

looking into multiple allegations

10:23

and has multiple investigations going

10:25

on.

10:25

This is just the first step,

10:27

John. Yeah. We'll talk more about that next

10:30

hour. Clarissa Ward, thank you so much because

10:32

we're gonna see much more of your interview

10:34

coming up. This warrant, as we just mentioned,

10:36

and as you can see, on the map again,

10:38

in theory, narrows Vladimir

10:41

Putin's world by roughly two thirds, which

10:43

might not matter to him as long as the 360

10:45

he needs either aren't obliged by 360 to

10:47

arrest him or they come to Moscow

10:50

instead. China falls into both 360.

10:52

PRESIDENT XI VISITS MOSCO NEXT

10:55

360. SO THERE'S THAT AND PLAY MORE TO

10:57

TALK ABOUT TONIGHT WITH 360 ZAKARIA, HOST

10:59

OF FARED ZAKARIA, GPS.

11:02

So for 360, we just heard what prosecutor Khan

11:05

had to say that no one gets a free pass.

11:06

What's your response to these charges? Well,

11:09

it's a very good idea, but 360

11:12

need to understand it's not gonna make

11:14

any difference legally anytime soon.

11:17

Russia is not a signatory to the treaty

11:19

of Rome, which is ablishes the International

11:21

Criminal Court. There

11:23

is no possibility that the

11:25

Russians will ever submit to this. Some

11:27

people say, well, it means Putin won't be able to

11:29

travel abroad. That's highly unlikely

11:33

the president of Sudan. Omar 360

11:35

has has been traveling lots of

11:37

places ever since he was indicted.

11:39

He was indicted for the crimes in

11:41

Daphor. So It's

11:44

On the other hand, it it's

11:46

a moral signal. And it's a signal

11:48

that the west is taking this

11:50

seriously that a lot of Democratic

11:53

countries and many non Democratic countries

11:55

who were signatories to the court are taking

11:57

this seriously. So it adds a certain

12:00

kind of moral pressure but I

12:02

think people need to understand the international

12:04

court is not like a regular court.

12:05

So the United States, what

12:08

do you think the US connection will

12:10

be to this? How much will the US

12:12

help here?

12:12

It's a very good question, John,

12:15

because the US is not

12:17

a signatory to the court. And

12:19

generally has been wary of getting

12:22

to involve. So in this particular case,

12:24

the state department wanted to provide

12:27

American intelligence. To the court

12:29

to help them. The Pentagon

12:31

did not because the Pentagon worries

12:33

that if an American soldier

12:36

you know, sitting behind in some military action.

12:39

What if that soldier or or that battalion

12:41

or that, you know, is is brought

12:44

to the court for alleged crimes?

12:46

So the Pentagon has always been much

12:48

more wary. I think the administration

12:51

on the whole has decided correctly

12:53

that this is a case where the moral

12:56

pressure it puts on Putin and

12:58

the moral kind of box it puts him in

13:00

is worth the cost of cooperating.

13:01

It is interesting. There is more nuance

13:04

from a US perspective than you might expect.

13:06

So let's talk about when this is happening.

13:08

This is happening days. Before

13:10

Chinese leader Xi Jinping will meet with

13:13

Vladimir Putin. Does this

13:15

the fact that Putin's been charged with either

13:17

war crimes by the tribunal, will that have any

13:19

impact on these

13:20

meetings? It won't

13:21

have much of an impact, but think it has

13:23

an impact on the optics look, the Chinese

13:25

are trying to make it out as though

13:28

this alliance is solid and firm

13:30

and unyielding There

13:33

is a reality of the public atmospherics

13:36

behind it and the fact that the guy has just been

13:38

indicted by the International Criminal Court

13:41

doesn't help. China is trying to

13:43

present itself as both neutral

13:46

and an ally of Russia at the same time.

13:48

Neutral when it wants to say they're they're in favor

13:51

360. They're they're not the ones they don't want

13:53

to be taking sides on on

13:54

this. But on the other hand, they have this

13:56

alliance. So I think it it complicates

13:59

Mattis for Xi. You know, you brought

14:01

up the number one question that

14:03

we always get with the International Criminal Court, which

14:05

is okay. But how are they going to

14:07

enforce how are they gonna what difference

14:09

is it going to make to Vladimir Putin's

14:12

life? Do you think there would be a country

14:14

he won't be able to go to some conference

14:16

he wouldn't be able attend because

14:18

of this?

14:20

There are probably countries he couldn't go

14:22

to, but he isn't gonna go to them

14:24

360 times soon. He's not gonna come to the United

14:26

States anytime soon. You know, I think in in

14:28

a in a sense, it punctuates

14:31

the reality that the

14:33

world really has been divided. And

14:36

that Russia is really isolated. I don't

14:38

think you're going to see Putin, you

14:40

know, at conferences in Western

14:43

European countries or European Union

14:45

cap apitals anymore. I don't think he's gonna

14:47

come to the United States. I

14:49

I think that was probably moving in with

14:51

things were moving in that direction 360, but this

14:53

kind of puts a puts a mark on it. But

14:56

is it possible that he could go to India?

14:58

Yes. If he could go go to China

15:00

for sure. It

15:01

may be that it draws moral lines

15:03

360 if there aren't

15:04

actually physical barriers to

15:06

him in the future. Free, great to see you. Thanks

15:08

so much. Pleasure.

15:10

And a quick reminder to stay tuned. We're gonna have

15:12

much more on the this at the top of the next

15:14

hour, more from Clarissa Ward's exclusive interview

15:17

with 360 con Also, closer look at

15:19

the Kremlin official who runs this child

15:21

abduction program and a conversation

15:24

with the Yale researcher whose team documented

15:26

it all. That and more in a special

15:28

hour of three sixty coming up tonight at

15:30

nine o'clock 360. Next up, though,

15:33

a bombshell on the Trump documents case,

15:35

a judge ordering one of the former president's

15:37

attorneys, this guy, to testify,

15:41

taking the incredibly rare step of denying

15:43

him attorney client privilege under the crime

15:45

fraud exemption, all the details on

15:47

that. And later, new reporting on how TikTok

15:50

could have access to your

15:51

data, even if you've never used TikTok.

15:58

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

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17:04

SO AS PARTING SHOTHS GO, THIS ONE MADE HISTORY.

17:07

JUDGE BEREL HOWL AND HER LAST KNOWN ACT

17:09

360 THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATION OF THE FOMBER PRESIDENT

17:12

issued a really significant ruling.

17:14

She ordered Trump attorney Evan Corcoran

17:17

to provide additional testimony that

17:19

might otherwise have been off limits due to

17:21

attorney client privilege. The source tells

17:23

CNN that in her sealed ruling,

17:25

she said prosecutors have met the threshold

17:28

for the crime fraud exemption to

17:30

it. Exception, I should say, meaning

17:32

that prosecutors were able to show to

17:34

judge Howell's satisfaction, that corporates

17:36

the discussion with the former president might have

17:38

been part of an ongoing or future

17:40

crime. There's also this just

17:42

in the CNN. CNN. John Miller

17:44

has learned that law enforcement agencies in

17:46

New York are preparing how to

17:49

handle a possible indictment of the former

17:51

president next 360. Sources tell

17:53

John the discussions have been about how to

17:55

navigate the potential indictment by a Manhattan

17:57

ground jury and how to handle his surrender,

18:00

fingerprinting, mugshots, and

18:02

arraignment. Prospective now

18:04

from CNN's Caitlin Collins, who will break the

18:06

federal 360. Also CNN political analyst

18:08

and York Times 360 political correspondent Maggie

18:10

Abramsman, former Republican congressman

18:12

in January sixth committee member, Adam Kinzinger,

18:15

he's currently a CNN 360 political commentator

18:17

and 360 Harding, CNN's senior legal analyst

18:19

and former federal prosecutor.

18:22

SO KAYLEN, THIS IS YOUR REPORTING. WHAT WAR

18:24

ARE YOU LEARNING ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS

18:27

THAT PROSECUTORS

18:29

wanna ask about. Well, they wanna be able to

18:31

work around attorney client privilege. They've spoken

18:33

to Trump's attorney Evan Cochrane before,

18:35

but essentially why they went to this judge

18:37

and made the case for this exception

18:39

here was they wanted to be able to ask him questions

18:42

and not have him be able to constantly cite

18:44

attorney client privilege, which was what he did when he

18:46

testified. The first time as Maggie

18:48

knows. And so they kind of embracing for

18:50

this decision to come down from the judge today,

18:53

and the judge notified them essentially

18:55

via this order saying that 360 does

18:57

believe that investigators have met the threshold

19:00

for this fraud fraud crime exception,

19:02

which means essentially prosecutors can

19:04

work around attorney clamp privates PRIVILEGE

19:06

IF THEY BELIEVE THAT THAT ATTORNEY HAS USED

19:08

THEIR LEGAL ADVICE OR LEGAL SERVICES IN FURTHERANCE

19:11

OF A CRIME FOR THEIR CLIME FOR THEIR

19:12

CLIME. IN THIS CASE, OBVIOUSLY TRUMP

19:14

So questions about what

19:16

specifically and are there limits?

19:18

There could be limits. We don't really know the full scope

19:20

of this. They haven't gotten the full order. They likely

19:23

will get it. That Trump's team, Evan Crocker,

19:25

and and his legal team himself, because 360, he's

19:27

hired his own attorney here. They'll likely get

19:29

that next week. We may see them respond

19:31

before then But 360, you know,

19:34

one of the assumptions would be they wanna talk about his

19:36

conversations he had with Trump about these

19:38

documents because he's been involved in this since

19:40

last May when this was all going

19:42

down with the negotiations with the Justice

19:44

Department. This is still really significant

19:47

though. They don't actually know how this

19:49

is going to end up? Ellie

19:51

Honey, counselor. To

19:53

Pierce, 360, client privilege,

19:56

Is a thing? How hard

19:58

everything is it? What does a judge

20:00

have to determine to allow these types

20:03

of questions now to be asked?

20:04

Well,

20:05

John, it's both difficult and

20:07

very rare to convince a judge to

20:09

pierce through 360 client privilege.

20:11

I was prosecutor for fourteen years. I only

20:14

ever did this one time successfully

20:16

as it turned out. What you have to do is go to

20:18

a judge and show by a preponderance of

20:20

the evidence, meaning it's more likely than not that

20:22

these conversations between the attorney here,

20:24

Evan Corcoran, and the client, Donald Trump,

20:27

were in furtherance of some

20:29

ongoing crime. And the fact that prosecutors

20:32

were able to make that showing and that a respected

20:34

federal judge agrees with

20:35

that, I think, is a monumental decision and

20:38

it opens the door for prosecutors to get that

20:40

testimony. 360, Maggie, that brings you into

20:42

the conversation 360. You've got reporting on this also.

20:44

Just remind us exactly where Evan Corcoran

20:46

fits in this key timeline And

20:49

also, it's just where he fits in

20:51

Trump world because he's not a name that we've known,

20:53

you know, since twenty fifteen. It's a really good

20:55

question. So Evan Crocker got introduced into

20:57

Trump World by Boris, Stein, who is a

20:59

Trump, you know, sort of universal

21:02

adviser on legal and on politics. And

21:04

this was last spring when this issue

21:07

was starting to heat up. Evan Cochrane was present

21:09

when justice department officials came to Mar

21:11

a Lago on June fifth, and this was

21:13

after this grand jury subpoena had been issued.

21:16

For any outstanding Mar a Lago documents.

21:18

Evan Corcoran is the one who drafted a statement

21:20

for another lawyer, 360 Bob, that

21:22

said it wasn't just, you know, we've given back classified

21:25

documents as as 360 noted, but it was

21:27

a diligent search has been done for everything

21:29

else. And that's a big piece of the Justice Department.

21:31

Zero in on because as he noted, when there

21:33

was an FBI search of Marlago two

21:35

months later, they discovered it wasn't true.

21:37

We also know that one one conversation

21:40

prosecutors are interested In 360 about

21:42

is a call Evan Cochrane

21:44

had with Trump the day that there was

21:46

a subpoena for security camera footage.

21:49

At Mar a Lago. Now 360 don't know whether

21:51

they have reason to wonder about that or it's just

21:53

that they can see a conversation took place because of phone

21:55

records. But Evan Corcoran, you know, is

21:57

is in an unusual position in Trump world.

21:59

He's not especially close to Trump. He

22:01

was, you know, very aggressive for a while and

22:03

suddenly started receding as this

22:06

issue pressed forward. What is so

22:08

unusual here, John, that's really

22:10

important to remember, is these lawyers who are

22:12

under scrutiny themselves ARE STILL

22:15

INVOLVED IN

22:16

DEFENDING THESE CASES THAT

22:18

TRUMP IS VERY INVESTION. Reporter: IT

22:20

IS AN OLD. OLD THING. Alright,

22:22

congressman. Often for the last several

22:24

years when something like this happens, people say,

22:27

Well, how will Trump's base react?

22:30

To this. I'm not sure that's a relevant

22:32

question anymore. We've been asking so long.

22:34

What I'm curious about, you know,

22:36

there are people running against him now. Or about

22:38

to run against him for president. So

22:40

what goes on in these campaign headquarters

22:43

with these other candidates?

22:44

How did they look at all of these

22:46

things that are going

22:46

on? They look at it,

22:49

John, with absolute fear. Like,

22:51

you know, they look 360, if this

22:53

is the candidate 360. Hopefully, organically,

22:56

this is gonna affect Donald Trump. But

22:58

man, if I go out and attack him, I'm gonna take

23:00

off his base. I'm gonna

23:02

anger them. And so I might just kind

23:04

of do the old What's this case you've

23:07

you're speaking of? I've never heard of it. You know? So

23:09

I think that's one way. Now there is a lane

23:11

for 360, whether it's like a 360 Haley or,

23:13

frankly, Mike Pence has been kind of stepping up

23:15

in this area to put that all together

23:17

and say, look, it's not just abandoning

23:20

Ukraine. It's also this lawless

23:22

issue. And then there's the raw politics

23:24

of saying, do you really think an indicted

23:26

former president can win again? That'll

23:29

probably be the most effective argument

23:31

in a primary. I do think this will rile

23:33

up Trump's base. He's good at being

23:35

a professional victim. But I

23:37

think it may kind of hurt him around the

23:39

edges as people are just kind of exhausted and

23:41

fatigues.

23:41

Ellie Honey, two quick mop up questions.

23:44

On this case. Number one, Evan Cochrane,

23:47

does he have to testify? Or can he take

23:49

the fifth 360? And

23:52

number two, Trump's lawyers are saying, oh, the fact that

23:54

they had to go appears the time attorney client Clifford

23:56

shows they have a weak case. Is that actually

23:58

accurate?

23:58

So

24:00

on number one, yes, Evan Korchren can

24:02

take the fifth here. If he does that, prosecutors

24:04

can then counter move by giving him 360,

24:07

meaning You have to testify, but we're not going

24:09

to use your testimony against you. On the

24:11

second point, I think Trump's lawyers have it exactly

24:13

backwards. I don't think it's a sign of weakness. I think

24:15

it's a sign of strength. You only do this as

24:17

a prosecutor. If you're confident you

24:19

can make this showing and as I said 360

24:22

it's a very rare thing for prosecutors to

24:24

do and they did it successfully here.

24:26

Maggie and Caitlyn here. I want talk to both

24:28

of you now about what could happen

24:30

soon, which is the, you know, Manhattan County District Attorney,

24:32

Alvin Bragg, you know, could get indictments

24:35

for Donald Trump on the 360 Daniels

24:39

matter. What's going

24:41

on inside Trump world? Do they

24:43

appreciate the significance

24:46

of this? Perhaps 360 under indictment within

24:48

days?

24:50

Yes. They do appreciate the significance of

24:52

it. I think that it it crept up on

24:54

them a bit. And despite the fact that this has been

24:56

being telegraphed, for such a long time that

24:58

this might happen. From their perspective, Trump

25:01

has been under investigation for a number

25:03

of years, and it didn't materialize into anything.

25:05

Didn't materialize primarily because he was a sitting

25:07

president, but put that aside he wasn't gonna get indicted,

25:09

but put that aside. They are prepared for

25:12

it. It's not clear to me how prepared they are on the legal

25:14

front. I think that'll become clear us in the coming days.

25:16

If an indictment comes out, they are they are very much

25:18

preparing on political front. And they are preparing

25:20

to suggest that this is of

25:22

the cases, the weakest of them. I want

25:25

to note that when people keep calling this a weak case,

25:27

they don't know what the evidence is. We don't either

25:29

It is a more trivial case, I think, is

25:31

the argument that people are making. By comparison

25:34

to other investigations Trump is facing, the

25:36

argument that folks prosecuting what make is the

25:38

law is the law. And so the Trump folks are are

25:40

planning to paint this as part of broader

25:42

conspiracy by Democrats. They

25:44

have often made a case with that evidence, but suggesting

25:46

this is about helping Joe Biden, and I think you're gonna

25:48

start 360 that immediately.

25:49

Yeah. And Trump has been watching closely

25:51

as people 360 one of them have

25:53

talked about how they don't believe it's a slam dunk

25:55

for prosecutors and that it actually will be QUITE

25:57

A DIFFICULT CASE. AND YOU HEARD LEGAL EXPERTS

25:59

SAY THEY KIND OF SURPRISED IF THEY

26:02

DO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE INDICTMENT WHICH WE ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH

26:04

EXPECTING AT THIS POINT. THAT THEY ARE SURPRISED THAT

26:06

THEY WOULD TAKE THAT STEP BECAUSE OF THE RISKS

26:08

OF WHAT HAPPENS. IF

26:10

THEY ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL, IF PROSECUTORS DO GO

26:12

THIS FAR and take this unprecedented step

26:14

of indicting of former president.

26:16

Caitlin Collins, Maggie Haberman, Ellie Holding.

26:19

Adam Kinzinger, what a reporting and

26:21

analytical team this fight and I thank you all

26:23

so much.

26:26

Coming up, a new report suggests that the

26:28

already trained relationship between the US

26:30

government and the Chinese company that owns TikTok

26:32

may be getting a lot more tense. We'll explain

26:35

why and whether this could lead to the end

26:37

of TikTok in the United States.

26:39

Also a new report on how TikTok may

26:41

have your data 360 if you never

26:43

use the app. That's next. The

26:46

New York Times and Forbes 360 that the

26:48

justice department is now investigating the Chinese

26:51

company that owns TikTok after

26:53

allegations that it was being used to spy

26:55

on US citizens, including journalists

26:57

to cover the tech industry. If true is

26:59

another major development and an already tense

27:01

standoff after the Biden administration this week

27:04

threatened to ban the popular social media

27:06

app in the US due to security and privacy

27:08

issues already. The app is banned on

27:10

government devices in the US, Europe,

27:12

and dozens of US states. There's

27:15

also a new report tonight that TikTok may

27:17

have access to your data. Even

27:19

if you've never used the app, we're gonna have much more

27:21

on that in a moment. First of all, let's go to see 360 a

27:23

tech

27:24

report, Brian Fung, on the justice department

27:26

reports. Brian, what more can you tell us about that?

27:28

Yeah, John, this all goes back to a spying

27:31

incident that we learned about in December

27:33

when Forbes broke the news that a

27:36

number of It's a

27:38

number of journalists had been spied on

27:40

by ByteDance 360. ByteDance, of

27:42

course, being the parent company of TikTok.

27:45

And TikTok later confirmed this

27:48

to to news outlets, including

27:50

CNN, saying that ByteDance had fired

27:52

several employees who had been involved

27:55

in improper data access. Now

27:57

it appears through this report from Forbes

28:00

and The New York Times, that the

28:02

Justice Department is investigating to

28:04

see whether or not there may be more to

28:06

this 360. And, you

28:08

know, we're seeing here this this is just adding

28:11

to the concerns that the US government

28:13

has about TikTok and whether

28:15

or not it poses a national security

28:17

threat. To the United States. So

28:19

TikTok's

28:19

parent company did admit to accessing

28:21

the data. What are they saying about this now?

28:24

Yeah, John, mainly they're reiterating

28:26

their earlier position on this. So let me just read

28:28

you a little bit of a statement that we got from ByteDance

28:30

earlier tonight. If they said,

28:32

quote, we have strongly condemned the actions

28:35

of the individual's found to have been involved

28:37

and they are no longer employed at by chance.

28:39

Our internal investigation is still ongoing

28:42

and we will cooperate with any official

28:44

investigations when brought to us. So

28:46

it all looks like, you know, TikTok

28:48

and ByteDance are looking to cooperate with this

28:51

investigation.

28:52

But of course, you know, still too early

28:54

to say where this is all going to lead.

28:56

How soon could US lawmakers get

28:58

a chance to talk to TikTok

29:00

executives about this directly?

29:02

Well, TikTok's CEO

29:04

showed the Choo is expected to testify

29:07

before the House Energy and Commerce Committee next

29:09

Thursday, lawmakers are gonna

29:11

have an opportunity to ask the CEO

29:13

some questions about not just the

29:15

national security concerns, but also about

29:17

how TikTok may be impacting 360

29:20

Mental Health, for instance, which has been a

29:22

major, major issue of discussion

29:24

here in the United States. Brian fung, great to

29:26

see it, and I thank you very much. I'm

29:28

joined now by Ivan 360. He is the CEO

29:30

and founder of the cybersecurity firm for root

29:33

security, which published that new report

29:35

mentioned moment ago that says TikTok could

29:37

have your data 360 if you've

29:39

never used it. 360, even if

29:41

you have deleted the app, it can still

29:44

collect your data. So

29:45

Ivan, what more can you tell us about this report?

29:48

Yes. Thank you. So what we

29:50

found out is that how common

29:52

tools like big sourcing trackers

29:55

that companies like TikTok owned

29:57

by Baidans are across the websites we

29:59

all use on day to day

30:00

basis. So The

30:02

idea that people who have

30:04

never used TikTok

30:05

could be affected by this, hey,

30:07

I have never used TikTok, but they could be

30:09

getting my stuff. Yes. That's

30:11

that's exactly correct. And so what

30:13

we found is first of all, what is pixels? It's like,

30:15

you know, those that giant spike balloon

30:18

that was shot out of the sky couple of weeks ago.

30:20

So pixels are like tiny spy balloons that

30:22

are embedded in two websites 360 all use when

30:24

you book it up, there's a point that'll log in to your

30:26

bank account. And TikTok,

30:29

you may never have had a TikTok

30:31

account or use the app

30:32

yourself, but TikTok can still have your data

30:34

and does collect your data across all the sites

30:36

that we always use on day to day basis. So

30:38

US lawmakers and others have said,

30:41

360 TikTok. If you have it,

30:42

delete it. Is that enough?

30:46

In my personal opinion, I don't think it's

30:49

enough because they

30:51

collect data on the websites

30:53

that we all use, not just

30:55

necessarily from the mobile app that

30:57

is on your phone. So if you delete the 360, you never

31:00

use the ever again,

31:01

you'll still see what you're typing in

31:03

in the form when you're booking an appointment that you're

31:05

signing up for a mortgage. So what can

31:06

you do? I is there anything you can do? Great

31:09

question. So one, you

31:11

know, discussion is having about change of

31:13

ownership. don't think even change of ownership

31:15

can change it. What is really

31:18

making a difference is, you know,

31:20

integrity 360 people who are

31:22

who have access to the data, who have control

31:25

over the data, who can make it make

31:27

decisions.

31:27

So it's I think it's

31:29

about having people who are as

31:31

as as valid and trusted as people who

31:33

work for Pentagon. So a TikTok spokesperson

31:36

told us that I quote, like other platforms,

31:38

the data we receive from advertisers is

31:40

used to improve the effectiveness of our advertising

31:43

services. Our terms instruct

31:45

advertisers not to share certain data

31:47

with us, and we continuously work with our partners

31:49

to avoid inadvertent

31:50

transmission. Of

31:53

such data. So what

31:55

are the chances that these trackers are just

31:58

inadvertent transmission of data? It

32:01

is pretty common. We we saw it

32:03

what it was really surprising is we set

32:05

out to actually establish a baseline. What

32:08

what we do, we help companies ensure that

32:10

the data they collect goes only to the

32:12

intended places and and servers

32:15

and countries. So what we've set

32:17

out and found is that pixels broadly

32:19

operated by many companies, not just TikTok.

32:21

They do collect a lot of information. They

32:24

360 are not aware of. Like 360, addresses,

32:27

home address, dates of birth,

32:29

everything that you can possibly share on

32:31

on the website.

32:32

Hi, mister Rainey. Thanks so

32:34

much for scaring us. This Friday. I 360

32:36

your time. So

32:38

a very unwelcome visitor has

32:40

arrived in Florida, a humongous, smelly,

32:43

and potentially toxic so called

32:46

blob of seaweed that stretches for thousands

32:48

of miles across the Atlantic. The havoc

32:50

it might cause next.

32:56

This week on my podcast, who's

32:58

talking to Chris Wallace. I can't turn

33:00

my back on. The very thing

33:02

that brought me over. I've never do that. My mother told

33:04

360. Keep my deal around before she

33:05

dies. So as long as people wanna see it, she'll be around.

33:08

Because Chris Volalla, you know, I was

33:10

late to the Tyler 360 train.

33:12

I will watch every move will you make from now

33:14

on? Thank you. I appreciate it. Listen

33:17

to who's talking to Chris Wallace on Apple

33:19

Podcasts,

33:20

Spotify, iHeartRadio, or

33:22

your favorite podcast app.

33:27

360 my guest with Ina Garten is back for a

33:29

third 360. On this season of be my

33:32

guest, Ina talks to Stanley Tucci,

33:34

Nora Jones, 360 Copeland, and

33:36

Laura 360, here's Ina to tell you more

33:38

about the show.

33:39

Hi. I'm Anna Garten, the barefoot contesa.

33:42

When friends come to visit, of course, I want them to

33:44

have something delicious to eat. But what's also

33:46

important to me is the conversation. It's the

33:48

glue that binds us together, how we take

33:50

care of one another. I've invited some

33:52

really interesting people to visit me to come

33:54

to my Barn and 360 Hampton. We'll share stories

33:57

that will hopefully and use and inspire

33:59

you and you're invited too. Hope you'll

34:01

join us wherever you get your podcasts.

34:06

As if hurricanes are not enough to worry

34:08

about, Florida is now bracing for

34:10

a seaweed invasion. 360,

34:13

the five thousand mile massive tangled

34:15

vegetation has already begun to arrive on

34:17

the shores there. It is twice as wide

34:19

as the entire continental United States.

34:21

So If you're wondering, what's

34:24

that smell? It could be what we've

34:26

all been calling for days now, the

34:28

blob or the blobs. But

34:31

360 as Lilis Santiago reports the first

34:33

thing she learned, whatever you do, don't call

34:35

this blob like massive blob

34:37

ish stuff floating in the great big

34:39

blobs up to sixty miles long in the ocean.

34:42

Blah.

34:45

It's

34:45

thick in the summertime

34:47

builds up and smells terrible.

34:50

Joe Kaplan captured these images about

34:52

a week ago, massive amounts of

34:54

seaweed washing up at Smithers 360.

34:55

A beach he knows well because he walks

34:58

it several times week. I was shocked

35:00

when I saw it that day where it

35:02

wasn't even spring

35:03

yet. It's still winter,

35:06

which is very unusual.

35:07

And this is about five thousand mile long.

35:10

Professor Shelman, who is one of the leading

35:12

experts on what many have referred to as

35:14

a massive blob of seaweed heading

35:16

to Florida's

35:17

coast. Fair to call it

35:19

a blob? Nope. No.

35:21

We can't call it a blob.

35:23

Well, I would never call that Paul. Okay.

35:24

Why? Because

35:26

he's not. Satellite images,

35:28

he says, show it's not one massive

35:31

body of seaweed, rather a bunch of patchy

35:33

clumps traveling from West Africa. It's

35:36

called the Atlantic sarcasm belt

35:38

and is considered a natural phenomenon.

35:41

Right now, it's twice the width of the

35:43

US, carrying six million tons

35:45

of seaweed and headed to the 360

35:47

Coast.

35:48

In June of this year, it may turn

35:50

into twenty million pounds. So let me

35:52

get this straight. This, what we're seeing

35:54

the last month, is six million tons and

35:56

it's going to get bigger. Yes.

35:57

There's no way to stop that.

35:59

This is nature. It's just like no one can stop

36:02

a hurricane. Should we be worried about that?

36:04

Nope. Reason

36:06

is the 360 is not toxic. But it

36:08

smells pretty bad and it's a nuisance

36:10

for those trying to keep beaches clean to

36:12

attract tourists Just a few years ago,

36:14

here's what it looked like in Mexico. Officials

36:17

in Monroe County, which includes the Florida

36:19

Keys, have set a side more than two hundred

36:21

thousand dollars to clean and remove sarcasm

36:24

from its beaches. 360

36:25

is a mixed blessing. 360

36:28

need it. The seaweed is a nursery

36:31

for all these large 360 fish. The negative

36:33

side to that seaweed is if it comes in the

36:35

concentrations, that are 360 we're

36:37

gonna see. Our fishing grounds are gonna

36:39

be completely covered with it. There's almost no point to

36:41

fishing because we're gonna be spending the entire day

36:43

cleaning weed off our lines.

36:45

And

36:45

is this orgas and belt heads toward Florida.

36:49

Another natural phenomenon is already

36:51

hitting its beaches on the West Coast, red

36:53

tide. It can be toxic, kill

36:55

fish, and cause respiratory issues.

36:58

This year's red tide concerns were enough to cancel

37:00

at least one major event here in Indian

37:02

rocks where one family visiting told

37:04

us as soon as my son and my husband

37:06

and I got out of our car, we all started

37:08

coughing. But for spring breakers like this

37:10

group from Iowa, the concerns of massive

37:13

amounts of seaweed or red tide WERE

37:15

NOT ENOUGH TO CHANGE VACATION PLANS.

37:16

I

37:17

WOULD RATHER IT BE RED TIED THAN RENÉE.

37:20

Reporter: TOURIS, NOTING FRIENDS BACK home.

37:22

They'd be pretty jealous regardless of having a

37:24

little bit of the the red tide symptoms. They'd be

37:26

pretty jealous that we're here and there not. Because

37:28

the pristine beaches of the Sunshine State

37:31

THEY'RE HARD TO RESIST FOR 360,

37:32

DESPITE WHAT MAY BE LOOMING

37:34

OFFSHORE. Reporter: AND LAYLA

37:37

360 JOINS US NOW. SO LAYLA,

37:40

what can you tell us about where this and I'm not

37:42

gonna call it a

37:42

blob. This not blob of

37:45

seaweed is headed now. Where is it going?

37:49

WELL, LISTEN, RIGHT NOW THAT SAME SCIENTISTS

37:51

WHO SAID DON'T CALL THE SUPPLOB, SAID IT

37:53

IS REALLY HARD TO FORCAS. IN FACT, HE

37:55

SAYS they can't forecast this because

37:57

this is something that kind of popped up in

37:59

the tropical Atlantic in in

38:02

twenty eleven. So they still need more research

38:04

to be able to forecast it. But they

38:06

do understand its movement sort

38:08

of how it moves and where it goes. So

38:10

that's why right now, they wanna be able

38:12

forecast it like a hurricane. And if you think about

38:14

this like a hurricane. What we're seeing now? Come on. Let's

38:16

get little closer. Are kind of the outer

38:18

bands of this massive

38:21

not blob, as you

38:23

mentioned, that's coming in. And although

38:25

this is normal, what

38:27

we're seeing here is a mix

38:29

of stuff. And if you look really closely, I can

38:32

pull out some of this. This

38:34

right 360. Is the

38:36

actual sarcasm. But again, it is

38:38

mixed in with a lot of the stuff that comes

38:40

in. And I gotta tell you, I was just having a conversation

38:42

with one gentleman that works with weddings 360.

38:45

And he was really concerned about what's to

38:47

come because he said last weekend, I spent

38:49

all of this time cleaning up this beaches

38:51

to make wedding look nice and he was afraid

38:53

of what will come next. John?

38:55

They they do say a seaweed blob

38:57

invasion at a wedding is supposed to be good luck.

39:00

For the marriage.

39:00

Love us.

39:01

I think that's what they say. That's what they

39:03

say. Okay.

39:05

Stay safe. Thank you so much for your 360.

39:07

Appreciate it. Thank you.

39:09

So if you have filled out a bracket for the NCAA

39:12

men's basketball tournament, you have my

39:14

condolences. It's only the second day of the tournament,

39:16

and already millions of brackets are busted

39:19

360 Harriet and joins us next with the numbers.

39:21

Stay with us. Perhaps

39:23

the only thing more busted than bank stocks

39:25

this week are people's n c double a

39:28

brackets another upset today

39:30

in the men's college basketball championship

39:32

tournament number eleven. Beat number

39:34

six Iowa State. I'm

39:36

sorry, Christine Jones. That comes one

39:38

day after the tournament began with huge

39:40

upsets, including Princeton beating

39:42

number two seat Arizona. Final

39:45

360 Ivy League kids catching a

39:46

break. That that laid waste to

39:48

millions of brackets. Our senior

39:50

data reporter 360 joins us with

39:52

the latest on the card is, you know, 360,

39:55

I mean, how many brackets were wiped

39:57

out here? I I mean, based on, you know,

39:59

Princeton losing and principal winning, excuse

40:01

me, 360 Fuhrman winning, less than a million

40:03

people had those had those two teams

40:05

in combo winning. We are now talking about

40:08

in terms of the perfect brackets in the 360,

40:10

Less than 360. Less than fifty

40:12

out of tens of millions of brackets

40:14

are currently still perfect, and we're keeping

40:16

an eye on this Purdue Purdue Game,

40:19

who says, number one 360. John has it

40:21

up on his computer right now. Purdue's trailing

40:23

by 360. And if that goes and you have

40:25

a number one seed going down, my goodness gracious,

40:27

And this is the reason why mister Berman,

40:29

that the chance of getting a perfect bracket is like

40:31

one and nine

40:32

quintillion, which is eighteen zeros.

40:35

I'm Ryan with Total now down by five, but I'm not

40:37

watching that. I'm paying very close attention to you,

40:39

Harry, and and the rest of the

40:41

news. Oh, now it's a two point Kim, giving the running

40:43

play by

40:43

play here. I'm not sure the legalities of

40:45

all of that. Harry, just

40:48

because though you've got a

40:50

bust busted

40:50

bracket, right, It's not all bad news.

40:52

Right? Right. It's not all bad news. The thing

40:54

to keep in mind, of course, is the way these brackets

40:57

work is that the games in the later

40:59

rounds count for more. So let's just

41:01

say, you know, oh, a number four

41:03

loss to a number 360, and you had that

41:06

number four winning. As long as you didn't have that number

41:08

four, going to the final four,

41:10

you're in pretty good shape because essentially what

41:12

it is, each round is worth the same amount

41:14

of points. But if there are more games in particular

41:16

round, 360 individual game is worth

41:19

significantly less when there's like say

41:21

sixteen games in round versus when say there are

41:23

only two games in round. So the key

41:25

thing here, John, is that you want your

41:27

final four to be 360. Of course, the big

41:29

question is after all these upsets, will

41:31

people's final fours actually be intact?

41:33

For speaker, you said fewer than fifty people

41:35

in all of America right now have

41:37

their pools intact? Less than fifty people

41:40

in America. I was looking at ESPN. It was

41:42

less than 360. I was looking at the NCAA's

41:44

website, there was less than thirty there.

41:46

When you combine it all together, there was less

41:48

than fifty. Now maybe there's someone who's betting

41:50

with their friend right out on the side. And

41:53

we don't know if that particular person

41:55

has a perfect bracket. But in terms of the official

41:57

brackets, the one you and I keep a count on, the

41:59

ones that maybe the Guinness Book of World Records would

42:01

keep an I add on, there's less than

42:03

fifty. Not the CNN

42:03

bracket, which I was not invited to participate.

42:05

No. I wasn't invited to participate 360. That's

42:07

either here nor there. Not invited. Just saying,

42:10

but there are brackets that I did do

42:13

in in our final fours are still okay.

42:15

We Okay

42:17

for another minute. Yeah. Maybe okay for

42:19

another minute. So if you look at our final fours,

42:21

right, we each have Purdue in there.

42:23

My question to you, mister Berman, is

42:26

what is going on with your Alabama Fed

42:28

this year, both Auburn and Alabama in

42:30

there. And why with Gonzaga? What

42:32

is with you and Chris Wallace? You both

42:34

pick Gonzaga one year,

42:36

they're not a number one scene. Every single year,

42:38

I picked

42:39

Gonzaga, they 360 to lose. What what

42:41

is the deal here? Do you just love John Stockton? Well,

42:43

truth be told my son,

42:45

filled out my entire Wow. --

42:46

for me. Oh, so you're cheating. But I think he's a big

42:48

Caitlyn Collins fan. So I think that's why he put

42:51

Alabama, you know, and all, but just because the

42:53

Alabama centric

42:54

Gonzaga, you know, it's got

42:55

a nice name. I I will say, you know,

42:57

my I I have family member that lives down

42:59

in Alabama. I also have Alabama in my

43:01

final four So I'm a big fan of Alabama,

43:04

but Auburn being an H. C. That would be

43:06

quite the thing if Auburn was able to advance.

43:08

But then again, I guess 360 wouldn't necessarily have

43:10

thought that 360 Dickinson University

43:13

might be with

43:14

the potential upset over Purdue. And just

43:16

to be clear, FDU is it sixteen

43:18

360 Purdue is a

43:21

one seed -- Correct.

43:21

-- only once in the history of history

43:23

-- Correct. -- is what happened. -- 360

43:26

back in two thousand eighteen beat UVA

43:28

by twenty points. That was the biggest shocker.

43:30

The only other time that really came close was

43:32

a Princeton back, I believe, in nineteen

43:34

eighty nine against Georgetown, was a

43:36

very close match that they only lost by a point in that

43:38

one, but this would be the second time in history. Reason which

43:41

it does state the

43:41

shockers? III digress. Yeah. Harry

43:43

and thank you. Very much for being with

43:45

us. Best of luck to you. I'm going to

43:48

need it after this Purdue game. Alright. That wraps

43:50

wraps up our hour coming up. Or devoting

43:52

an entire hour to the historic war

43:54

crimes warrant issued by the International Criminal

43:57

Court for Vladimir Putin. That includes

43:59

more of Clarissa awards exclusive

44:01

interview with the ICC's chief prosecutor,

44:03

Korean Khan, and why he decided to pursue

44:06

allegations involving the abduction of children

44:08

from Ukraine rather than the attacks on civilians,

44:11

OR THE 360 IN BUKA. JOHN

44:14

BORDIN HERE IN FOR ANDersen AND THIS IS A

44:16

SPECIAL LIVE COVERAGE OF TODAY'S HISTORIC

44:18

DECISION BY THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

44:21

to issue arrest warrants on war

44:23

crimes charges for Russian president Vladimir

44:25

Putin and his deputy who runs

44:27

Russia's program of taking children

44:29

from Ukraine, thousands of them

44:32

to Russia for indoctrination and

44:34

in some cases adoption by Russian

44:36

families. Today, CNN's Chorus Award

44:38

got this exclusive interview with

44:40

Korean Convey, ICC's chief

44:43

prosecutor. She joins us from the Hague.

44:45

CNN's Matthew Chance, is moderating

44:47

Russian reaction. He joins us as well as

44:49

as seen as Ivan Watson from Ukraine.

44:51

This is a story that he and three sixty have been

44:53

reporting on extensively. We

44:55

start things off with Clarissa

44:58

Ward and her interview at the head.

45:00

Clarissa?

45:03

John, well, 360 Khan was keen to tell us

45:05

that this is really just the first step

45:07

in what promises to be a long

45:09

journey. The arrest warrants that were given

45:12

out today for president Putin and

45:14

also for the Russia high

45:16

commissioner for children, 360 LOVOVA,

45:19

360. 360 are just

45:21

the first two 360. There

45:23

may be more coming. There may be other

45:25

areas that they will be exploring.

45:27

There is no shortage of

45:30

alleged war crimes that have taken place

45:32

in Ukraine. The prosecutor's

45:35

office for here from the ICC

45:37

have made multiple trips

45:39

to Ukraine, but they were keen

45:41

really to stress the importance of

45:44

this historic day. Take a look.

45:48

There are many different war

45:50

crimes or potential war crimes

45:53

that we've seen playing out in Ukraine,

45:55

whether it's bombing of

45:57

the theater in Maruy up, where people

45:59

were sheltering, civilians were sheltering,

46:01

whether it's the atrocities of Búcha,

46:04

why did you decide to pursue

46:06

this line of prosecution

46:09

first?

46:09

360 absolutely right. Firstly,

46:11

I stated when I was outside six

46:13

hundred Church in brochure

46:16

about a year ago, just less than

46:18

a year ago, that Ukraine is a

46:20

crime 360. And there's many terrible

46:22

allegations that have been received and were analyzing

46:24

them and reviewing them. But before

46:27

my election as prosecutor, before

46:29

I started in June of twenty twenty one.

46:31

I also identified the crimes against

46:34

or crimes affecting children. Are

46:36

under investigated and 360. And

46:38

this is why when you look at the factual

46:40

matrix, the actual evidence that we received,

46:42

it was only right and 360.

46:44

To focus on the most vulnerable

46:47

parts of our 360, which are children. We

46:49

understand that miss Liva 360

46:51

is the Russian commissioner

46:54

for children. She's been very vocal and

46:56

visible in her role. How

46:58

did you take the next step also

47:00

in terms of pushing for execution of

47:02

president Putin

47:03

himself? And how unusual is

47:06

that? Well, I've said repeatedly

47:08

over the last year that we don't start with targets.

47:11

And we start with the evidence. We

47:13

investigate incriminating and

47:15

exonerating evidence equally. We want to

47:17

find the truth. We are structurally 360.

47:21

To get to the truth. And we,

47:23

as I've said, started looking at a range

47:25

of white spectrum of allegations, but

47:28

the evidence was quite clear because what

47:30

has been said publicly from

47:33

those individuals, what has become available

47:35

from publicly available sources

47:37

and also the result of our direct

47:39

investigations ourselves

47:42

cooperation with other states and also Ukraine.

47:45

That these 360 crimes appear to have

47:47

been committed and one follows the evidence.

47:49

And the the simple reality is

47:51

these crimes have not been hidden. Because the first

47:54

time in history, any

47:56

head of state of the permanent members of the

47:58

five permanent members of the 360 council

48:00

has had a warrant of arrest issued

48:03

by independent and impartial judges. It

48:05

shouldn't give us any celebration. It's

48:08

a matter of real regret that

48:10

we've had to do this.

48:12

The evidence compelled us to move in this manner.

48:15

It's

48:15

a historic moment 360, but

48:17

will we ever 360 president Putin

48:19

in the dock? Well, the president of the

48:21

court made it very clear our job is

48:23

to independently and impartially

48:25

without any political motivations or agendas.

48:28

Look at – apply the law to the facts.

48:30

The facts that have been verified, that have been

48:33

independently 360, and

48:35

rigorously 360. Now

48:38

it's for others to decide whether

48:40

or not arrest opportunities are

48:43

available and if show to enforce them. The

48:45

first is many thought

48:48

it was impossible. The

48:50

powerful leaders like former

48:53

President, Milosevic, former President,

48:55

Charles Taylor, Karadich,

48:58

Miladich, Jean Cabanda of Rwanda,

49:01

Kussopan in of 360, the

49:04

list goes on. He said 360

49:07

would ever be subjected to

49:09

the rule of

49:09

law, and yet they were. Some of them are

49:11

in custody. Of

49:14

course, award is back with us. Clarissa, no

49:16

expectation, obviously, that Vladimir

49:18

Putin would surrender or

49:20

or be arrested. So did the ICC give

49:23

you a sense of how it intends

49:25

to proceed legally? Well,

49:29

that's the question 360, John, because

49:31

the ICC can't trial, can't

49:33

have a trial of someone in absentia.

49:36

BUT WHAT THEY CAN DO, ACCORDING

49:39

TO PROSECUTOR CON AND AGAIN, THIS HASN'T

49:41

BEEN DONE HISTORICALLY 360 THERE IS

49:43

LEGAL PRESIDENT FOR IT is

49:45

what they call a confirmation hearing

49:48

in absence. And that would essentially

49:51

allow for the evidence to

49:53

be preserved in a judicial setting

49:56

in a timely way, paving

49:59

the way for some potential future

50:01

trial. What they have seen traditionally, the

50:03

ICC, is that very

50:06

rarely do people charge with war crimes

50:09

360 to face justice until

50:11

those wars have reached an

50:13

end and whichever side is victorious gets

50:16

to choose who ends up facing

50:19

trial at the ICC.

50:21

So what they want to do at least with

50:23

this possibility of the confirmation

50:25

hearing is in sure that that evidence

50:27

is put out there in a timely manner

50:29

that victims of these

50:32

alleged atrocities are able to still

50:34

have their day in court even if it might

50:36

be quite some time before you

50:38

would potentially see president

50:41

Vladimir Putin appearing on

50:43

trial, though, I think for the moment, that

50:45

does seem like a very distant prospect,

50:48

John. Of course, stay with us, I wanna bring in Matthew

50:50

Chants and Ivan Watson. Ivan, what what has the

50:52

reaction been from the 360 GOVERNMENT

50:54

TO THESE ARREST WORDS?

50:58

John, THE 360 GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN UP plotting

51:01

this decision, the arrest warrant issued

51:03

by the International Criminal Court. According

51:05

to government statistics, they

51:07

say that some sixteen thousand

51:09

two hundred twenty six Ukrainian children

51:12

the government believes have been taken

51:14

and deported to Russia since

51:17

the start of the Russian invasion a

51:19

bit more than a year ago. Take

51:21

a listen to what the Ukrainian president Volodymyr

51:24

Zelensky had to say about this, which

51:26

he calls and historic decision.

51:32

Separating children from their families

51:34

depriving them of any opportunity to

51:36

contact their relatives, hide in children

51:39

in Russia, dispersing them to remote

51:41

360, All this is obvious

51:43

Russian state policy, state decisions,

51:46

and state evil, which

51:48

begins with the first official of the state.

51:53

So, you know, another top Ukrainian

51:56

official has just called this a first

51:58

step 360, the top prosecutor in

52:00

the country, he says that he hopes that this will make

52:03

other world leaders think twice about

52:05

in the future. Shaking hands with Vladimir

52:07

Putin or sitting down at the negotiating table

52:10

with him now that he's effectively become

52:13

a suspected war criminal. While

52:15

the ICC move is important,

52:18

it's also important, I think, to

52:20

to understand that the

52:22

Ukraine judicial system, that

52:24

police here on the ground, that investigators and

52:27

prosecutors, that they are also

52:29

separately ACTIVELY GATHERING

52:31

EVIDENCE FOR THEIR OWN CASES TO

52:33

ACCUSE Russian

52:36

MILITARY COMMANDERS IN INDIVIDUAL

52:38

Russian SOLDIERS. Of

52:40

alleged war crimes that after

52:43

every kind of rocket strike or

52:45

or 360 strike on a Ukrainian

52:48

city or town after every death of

52:50

a civilian. You have police coming

52:52

in later if it's at all safe

52:55

in an 360. Gathering evidence and

52:57

putting their own cases together to

52:59

try to prosecute prosecute

53:02

Russian military units 360 probably

53:05

going to see more of this coming from

53:07

just the Ukrainian judicial system

53:09

in the the months and years ahead.

53:12

So Matthew, the the Kremlin has called these warrants

53:14

outrageous, but did they actually

53:16

deny what the warrants accused?

53:19

No, not at all. They you're right. They

53:21

say it's outrageous and unacceptable that

53:23

these indictments have been made.

53:26

But they're actually quite boastful of the

53:28

fact that these, you know, what the Ukrainian

53:30

leadership calls these these forceful deportations

53:33

are taking place because they cast it inside

53:35

Russia as a humanitarian act.

53:38

What what they regard it as

53:41

is Russia rescuing orphans

53:44

who have essentially been abandoned inside

53:46

the war zone and then embracing them into

53:48

the the bosom of mother Russia. As

53:51

it were. And 360, talking quite

53:53

a lot on Russian television within the past few

53:55

days and weeks about how

53:58

some of them have been adopted. Maria

54:01

LaVver herself is said

54:03

to have adopted a fifteen year old from

54:05

the city of of Mario Poel. She's

54:07

also spoken about how they've been re educated,

54:10

how many of them said negative

54:12

things about Russia and sank the 360 national

54:15

anthem when they were first taken into Russian

54:17

360. But now that don't do that 360,

54:20

and they speak much more 360, apparently, she

54:22

says, about Russia. And

54:24

so this is how Russia

54:27

and its officials describe these

54:30

alleged crimes that that president

54:32

Putin has been indicted for.

54:34

And all this remember, as these children,

54:37

at thousands of them, have parents

54:40

in many cases that are still alive inside

54:42

Ukraine and desperately trying to

54:45

get their loved ones back.

54:45

You know, Clarissa, I think

54:47

one of the most interesting parts of your

54:50

discussion with the prosecutor from the ICC was

54:52

about the timing here.

54:53

These warrants are coming out While

54:55

the conflict is still going on, how unusual

54:57

is that?

55:01

It's highly unusual. And

55:03

and it was interesting to hear Korean

55:05

Kong was even critical of the ICC

55:07

and said in the past, you know, we've been too pedestrian

55:10

to use his word. 360 need to

55:12

accelerate. There needs to be a sense

55:14

that the wheels and justice turn in

55:17

a timely manner. And so

55:19

as opposed to traditionally where we

55:21

might be talking about years after conflict

55:23

has ended within a month

55:25

of the Russian invasion. Khan

55:28

and his team were already beginning

55:31

their investigations. And just

55:33

over a year after the war

55:35

began, you have the first to

55:37

arrest warrants being issued. And

55:40

the idea is that this will continue

55:42

a pace now, that you will see more

55:45

arrest warrants 360, more

55:47

investigations as all the

55:49

different allegations that have been made

55:52

our research. Now, obviously, this takes a huge

55:54

amount of resources, John. Right? There is

55:56

no shortage of

55:58

war crimes as we've mentioned before taking

56:00

place in Ukraine. In fact, to use cons

56:03

of words. He said, Ukraine is

56:05

basically a crime scene. And

56:07

so there's now an inordinate amount

56:10

of work that needs to be done,

56:12

to go, to try to verify, and

56:14

to build up solid cases.

56:17

In this instance,

56:17

and in future investigations

56:20

taking place. Close

56:22

to war, we're 360 have more of your interview coming up.

56:24

Ivan Watson, Matthew Chancellor, thanks to both

56:26

of you. Next, more

56:28

on the woman we've been talking about in

56:30

the program she runs, bringing Ukrainian

56:33

children to Russia and erasing their

56:35

Ukrainian identity. And later, My

56:38

conversation with Elena Nash, who

56:40

360 sixty, whom three sixty viewers got to

56:42

know in the early days of the war, sheltering

56:44

with her children AND 360, SHE IS NOW HERE

56:46

IN THE UNITED STATES AND WE SPOKE ABOUT

56:48

TODAY'S ARREST WARRANCE HER THOUNS AHEAD

56:50

ON 360 sixty.

56:55

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. This week on

56:57

chasing life, the average teen is like living

56:59

so much of their lives in the digital world on

57:01

social 360. That's Professor Kinesha

57:04

Sinclair McBride. Her entire job

57:06

is treating adolescent's mental health.

57:08

She's a licensed clinical psychologist at

57:10

Boston Children's Hospital and so much

57:13

of this is impacting their

57:15

mental health. Listen to chasing

57:17

life on Apple Podcasts,

57:20

Spotify, iHeartRadio 360 your

57:23

favorite podcast app.

57:26

360

57:27

wanna tell you more about the lesser known

57:29

of the two individuals there on

57:31

your screen. The one with the job title

57:33

that in this context is just chilling. She

57:35

is Russia's commissioner for

57:37

children's rights. You heard that

57:39

right. The woman heading up and

57:42

even boasting about an operation that has

57:44

already documented to be violating the rights

57:46

of Ukrainian children.

57:46

More from 360 Melissa

57:49

Bell. She

57:51

claims to be the savior of

57:53

Ukrainian children. Demure

57:59

devout and devoted, 360 says,

58:01

to welcoming orphaned or abandoned

58:03

children of war. To the motherland. But

58:09

this is no humanitarian adoption

58:11

program. Russia's children's

58:13

rights commissioner is in fact in charge

58:16

of something far more sinister. According

58:18

to American and European governments

58:21

and to a report by Yale University,

58:23

360 of children have

58:25

been forcibly deported to Russia.

58:28

Although

58:28

Moscow denies its doing this against

58:30

their will, some have been taken

58:32

thousands of miles and several

58:35

time zones away from Ukraine. Maria

58:37

La VOva Bel VOBA is basically

58:40

the point person at Kremlin level

58:42

for this entire program.

58:44

And so

58:44

360 children are essentially being held hostage?

58:47

Yes.

58:49

The woman in charge is herself a thirty

58:51

eight year old mother of at least ten,

58:54

including five adopted

58:55

children. And her work takes

58:57

her all the way into the occupied

58:59

territories. This

59:03

time, we came to Mario Paul itself.

59:05

We will do everything for the children and teenagers

59:08

who are here.

59:09

From Lava, Belava's telegram

59:11

channel to Russian propaganda videos

59:14

the deportations are no 360, yet

59:16

the children are totally beyond the reach

59:19

of either their families or Ukrainian

59:21

authorities.

59:22

Some of those children are really small.

59:24

We see on the propaganda video of fresh and

59:27

that seven, six

59:29

months, you know, four years,

59:31

those children just do not remember

59:34

where they form, who are their parents.

59:38

And

59:38

once across the border, there is no

59:40

contact anyway. Some are adopted

59:43

by Russian families, others, are taken

59:45

to water build as summer camps. In

59:47

fact, reeducation centers

59:49

aimed at turning Ukrainian children into

59:52

Russian citizens. Unfortunately,

59:56

we see that these children

59:58

were brought up in a completely different culture,

1:00:01

and they did not watch the same films our

1:00:03

children watched.

1:00:03

They did not study history as

1:00:05

our children did. But

1:00:08

Ukrainian lawyers fighting for the return

1:00:10

of the children fear that those already adopted

1:00:12

may be lost for good.

1:00:13

During this process of adoption,

1:00:16

parents can change all personal

1:00:18

data. NIMs, some

1:00:21

names, a a date of birth.

1:00:23

And they think that some

1:00:26

children, the transfer to Russia,

1:00:27

these are all documents. Among

1:00:30

those already adopted, is a young

1:00:32

boy from 360 Paul by Maria Lava

1:00:34

Bilava herself. At

1:00:36

first, she says he sang the Ukrainian

1:00:39

national

1:00:39

anthem. Now, he's a good

1:00:41

boy, as she told Vladimir Putin

1:00:44

himself.

1:00:48

Did you adopt child from Mario Paul yourself?

1:00:53

Yes. So thanks to you. Fifteen years

1:00:55

old. Now I know what it means to be mother

1:00:57

of a child from Don Bass.

1:00:58

It's difficult, but we definitely

1:01:00

love each other. Minnesota

1:01:04

And joining us now is Nathaniel Raymond, whom

1:01:06

you saw a moment ago in Melissa Bell's report.

1:01:08

He's executive director of

1:01:10

Yale University's 360 research

1:01:13

lab you've worked on

1:01:15

this project for a long time. Your report was

1:01:17

responsible for shining a light on so much of

1:01:19

what's been going on in Ukraine.

1:01:20

So what does this moment mean for you? Well,

1:01:23

John, on one hand, I'm still in

1:01:25

shock from the announcement and the indictments

1:01:28

this morning by the 360. Which

1:01:30

is a critical first step, but only a

1:01:32

first step towards justice

1:01:34

for the people of Ukraine. On the

1:01:36

other hand, I'm thinking about

1:01:39

the parents tonight of

1:01:41

the children who have yet to come home

1:01:44

and some may not come home.

1:01:46

And so on one hand, I

1:01:48

feel hope because of today's

1:01:50

indictment. On the other hand, I feel

1:01:52

the urgency of trying to get these kids

1:01:54

back.

1:01:54

You mentioned

1:01:56

that

1:01:56

you're still sort of in shock. Did

1:01:59

you have any idea this was coming? No.

1:02:01

I the only thing I knew is what I read

1:02:03

in The New York Times. A few days ago.

1:02:06

And at that point, we thought it could

1:02:08

happen. And then this morning,

1:02:11

I was walking my dogs and my

1:02:13

phone went bizarre. And

1:02:15

suddenly it had happened. And

1:02:18

and so since that point, it's

1:02:21

really been an effort to get our heads

1:02:23

around the fact that what we've been

1:02:25

working on is now the subject of an ICC

1:02:27

indictment.

1:02:28

So, 360 Vovalova, who we saw --

1:02:30

Yeah. -- in that piece right there. 360

1:02:32

called the ICC warning against her

1:02:35

great. Yes. What's

1:02:37

your view of her who is this woman in your mind?

1:02:41

Maria LOVOVA BOLOVA is

1:02:43

basically the center

1:02:45

of the command and control of

1:02:47

a synchronized coordinated

1:02:50

whole of government operation that

1:02:52

has two major parts to it. One

1:02:55

is the reeducation camps you mentioned and

1:02:57

the other is forced adoption. And

1:02:59

you have to understand that this

1:03:01

network and it is a network of camps

1:03:04

stretches as the graphic showed three

1:03:06

thousand five hundred miles from the black

1:03:08

sea to the Pacific and involves more than

1:03:10

forty three facilities.

1:03:11

We think that number is significantly higher.

1:03:13

She sounded proud. 360 is proud.

1:03:15

Today, though. So do you think that the

1:03:17

warrants -- this historic moment --

1:03:19

Yes. -- do you think it will do anything to deter

1:03:22

her or slow her down? At

1:03:25

every moment that the Russians

1:03:27

have faced the possibility of accountability for this

1:03:29

program, they've doubled down. In that 360, you

1:03:31

played, there's another clip after where

1:03:33

they talk about a military training facility

1:03:35

for 360, seventeen year old boys in Chechnya.

1:03:38

And they say, this is forty eight hours after our

1:03:40

report comes out. They say, the pilot

1:03:42

program has been a success. Let's expand

1:03:44

it by two thousand Russian and Ukrainian

1:03:46

boys. And so the

1:03:48

point is they are probably going to,

1:03:51

360 term, try to show that they are

1:03:53

undeterred. But today,

1:03:55

the international community show that we are also

1:03:57

undeterred. What do you want to

1:03:59

see happen to Vladimir

1:04:01

Putin and Maria VOV blah blah.

1:04:03

One word, handcuffs.

1:04:07

What do you think the future is for

1:04:10

those Ukrainian children who

1:04:12

are already in Russia? I've

1:04:14

worked on efforts to

1:04:17

identify through DNA testing children

1:04:19

in Guatemala who were separated

1:04:21

from their parents during civil wars in

1:04:23

the 360. That process took decades.

1:04:26

I don't want to see that here, but we're

1:04:28

in as emergency medicine

1:04:30

surgeons call the golden hour. And

1:04:32

that golden hour is fast slipping away, John,

1:04:35

where if we don't get them back now,

1:04:37

we're going to be talking about DNA identification

1:04:39

and processes that will take decades So

1:04:41

360 have to act now because time is technique.

1:04:44

This type of human writes work

1:04:46

that you do -- Yeah. -- can can be thankless.

1:04:48

I mean, you can get no results for for

1:04:50

years on certain things. Years. Like Ted

1:04:52

Williams said about baseball, you know, you fail

1:04:55

sixty, seventy percent of the times for doing your

1:04:57

job. Right? And So this is history today

1:04:59

in your mind. Absolutely. This is

1:05:01

the moment where the dog caught the

1:05:03

postal truck, and

1:05:05

this usually doesn't happen. Now

1:05:07

the fact is, is that we have to

1:05:10

take this moment, which validates the anguish

1:05:12

of the people of Ukraine and those parents, and

1:05:14

then turn it into, okay, What's

1:05:16

next?

1:05:16

You gotta make account those

1:05:19

kids 360 it. Nathaniel Raymond, thank

1:05:21

you for the work that you do and thank

1:05:23

you for being with us tonight. Thank you for telling the

1:05:25

story 360. Coming up more from

1:05:27

Clarissa Ward's exclusive interview with

1:05:29

ICC 360 Prosecutor Kareem Khan,

1:05:31

including whether he thinks he will ever

1:05:33

see Putin taken into custody in

1:05:35

handcuffs. As Nathaniel just

1:05:37

said, and what may be coming next in

1:05:39

the ICC's investigations. We

1:05:42

continue

1:05:42

our look tonight at the historic

1:05:44

arrest warrants handed down by the International

1:05:46

Criminal Court for Vladimir Putin and a top

1:05:48

Russian official. Now with

1:05:50

more of Clarissa Ward's exclusive conversation

1:05:53

with the ICC's chief prosecutor Korean

1:05:55

Khan and why the ICC decided first

1:05:57

to focus on the kidnapping of Ukrainian children

1:06:00

as well as what charges may be coming next.

1:06:02

Under

1:06:04

the Rome Statute, the

1:06:06

forced deportation of children, is

1:06:09

also listed as a component of genocide

1:06:12

potentially. Now, the arrest warrants

1:06:14

today are for war crimes.

1:06:17

I wonder how did you decide

1:06:21

whether to pursue war crimes versus

1:06:23

crimes against humanity versus

1:06:24

genocide, for example?

1:06:26

Yes. So we're

1:06:28

still at an early stage of the investigations. We

1:06:30

are continuing to look at

1:06:32

all the allegations

1:06:35

that we have received, that we are

1:06:37

uncovering, and we will make

1:06:40

the necessary applications to

1:06:42

the judges if

1:06:44

and when the evidence fulfills those requirements.

1:06:47

So the fact that today, the

1:06:49

judges of the International Criminal Court

1:06:51

pursuant to their statutory responsibilities have

1:06:54

decided to issue the two warrants that

1:06:56

have been mentioned. Does it mean that's it?

1:06:59

360 will keep on going to the best

1:07:01

of our ability to ensure

1:07:04

that the many other crimes,

1:07:04

the many other allegations that

1:07:07

seem to have been committed are uncovered. So

1:07:09

is it fair to say this is essentially just the

1:07:11

first step? And there are multiple

1:07:13

other investigations into

1:07:16

potential war crimes in Ukraine that

1:07:18

your office will be looking into?

1:07:20

Yes, I think it's very clear that it's an ongoing

1:07:24

360 of battle and war

1:07:26

is not illegal, but law the war

1:07:28

has certain constraints. There's not

1:07:31

an unlicensed. There's not a free license to

1:07:33

commit every type of 360.

1:07:35

You can't rape. You can't attack

1:07:37

civilian objects. You can't attack

1:07:39

civilians. You can't execute people that

1:07:42

have laid down their arms.

1:07:42

These are the basic principles that have been

1:07:45

well understood by all sides. You've

1:07:47

obviously worked in international

1:07:50

law for a long time. You've

1:07:52

spent quite some time on the ground

1:07:55

in Ukraine. How

1:07:57

does Ukraine compare? Not that one can

1:07:59

make these types of comparisons, but are

1:08:01

you struck by what you see

1:08:04

in Ukraine in terms of

1:08:07

the levels of violence or potential

1:08:09

war crimes.

1:08:11

You know, you're quite right,

1:08:13

I've had the privilege of

1:08:16

seeing the

1:08:17

charisma of victims and survivors in

1:08:19

so many parts of the world.

1:08:21

And I don't have a 360 table,

1:08:24

of course. But what we see

1:08:26

in parts of Ukraine, have

1:08:29

been seen by different

1:08:31

people of

1:08:33

different cultures and different languages. I

1:08:36

was also leading the team investigating

1:08:38

crimes by Daish in Mosul.

1:08:41

We've seen the Balkans. I was a

1:08:43

junior prosecutor many decades

1:08:45

ago at the London tribunal as

1:08:47

well as Yugoslav tribunal in Cambodia. So

1:08:53

you know very well about the banality of evil

1:08:55

and you you you also know very well

1:08:57

about the kind of crimes that have

1:08:59

afflicted humanity from timing

1:09:01

360, but also since the Holocaust. And

1:09:04

unfortunately, despite the promises of never

1:09:06

gain and despite the

1:09:08

publicity, the understanding that

1:09:10

the law is out there, there is this

1:09:13

still very prevalent proclivity of

1:09:15

people with power. To

1:09:18

believe that they can

1:09:20

subject weaker

1:09:21

people to that power and do what they

1:09:23

want. Fact

1:09:25

with the snap clause award also joining is

1:09:27

Gary Kasparov, Russian pro democracy leader

1:09:29

and chairman of the Human Rights Foundation He's

1:09:32

also the author of Winter is

1:09:33

coming, why Vladimir Putin and the enemies

1:09:35

of the free world must be

1:09:37

stopped. Carrie, you've been a long time critic.

1:09:40

Of Vladimir Putin. So what is your reaction

1:09:42

to these arrest warrants today?

1:09:43

It's a great joy. It's

1:09:45

very important with the first step as we

1:09:47

heard today. Because

1:09:49

this war and the crimes committed

1:09:51

by Russian troops on the equated

1:09:53

soil is quite unique with so many

1:09:56

genocides before. But we learned of

1:09:58

them afterwards, Holocaust,

1:10:01

Cambodia, Rwanda, we

1:10:04

didn't see them life. Yeah,

1:10:06

we had to accumulate evidence and then recognize

1:10:09

the horrors of these crimes. These

1:10:11

crimes committed virtually online. And

1:10:15

I think that what's happened today, it's

1:10:17

a very strong message for Russians,

1:10:19

for Russian 360. That there's no way back.

1:10:22

It's no one that's going to close their eyes

1:10:25

and sort

1:10:27

of turn the blind eye on on on

1:10:29

on 360 crimes. And somehow, I think

1:10:31

Putin probably was shocked because he's

1:10:34

he's killed 360 of blood.

1:10:36

But now 360 being charged with kidnapping.

1:10:39

It's It's like Al Capone

1:10:41

being charged with tax evasion because

1:10:43

they could actually get him on on on on

1:10:45

tax evasion. And and it's it's not being

1:10:48

mentioned, but putting bragged about this crime,

1:10:50

kidnapping kids on television. Actually, they

1:10:52

recorded it. So which get it? It's you

1:10:54

don't even have to prove it because you have to put

1:10:56

put in personal confession. About

1:10:58

the program that he authorized, and

1:11:01

he's subordinate, the so called commissioner

1:11:04

on children's rights. 360 has been executing

1:11:06

the program, which by the way was a part of

1:11:08

Putin's long term strategy of

1:11:11

destroying Ukraine's statehood and

1:11:13

eradicating 360 as a nation.

1:11:15

It's not me saying Putin said it many

1:11:17

times, and it has been repeated by Russian

1:11:19

propaganda That's the goal of the war. No matter

1:11:21

what DeSantis talked about

1:11:24

about 360

1:11:26

dispute. This is a general side award

1:11:28

that has been planning for a long time.

1:11:31

360 children, bragging about steer

1:11:33

stealing children. They both have we just played some of that

1:11:35

before That is what he is charged with,

1:11:37

but as you heard in Clarissa's piece there,

1:11:40

there may be other charges.

1:11:42

Do you spec and hope that there will

1:11:44

360?

1:11:44

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is the first

1:11:46

one just because we actually could see

1:11:48

him on television saying about that. Other

1:11:51

charges, you know, you have to connect directly to Putin.

1:11:53

But this one, again, you have his post confession.

1:11:56

I think it's every prosecutor could

1:11:58

dream about post confession. Recorded

1:12:00

by by major major TV station.

1:12:03

But I hope it's just as they have

1:12:05

been saying first step because crimes

1:12:07

are endless there. And it's it's not just

1:12:09

war crimes. It's a general side. And 360,

1:12:11

Europe is the end of America because part

1:12:14

of this program is not only to convict

1:12:16

these criminals. And and

1:12:19

by issue warrants as a first step, but

1:12:21

also to remove the state immunity

1:12:24

from Russian frozen fans. Europe

1:12:26

is working now very aggressively to confiscate

1:12:29

hundreds of billions of dollars of frozen funds

1:12:31

to pay Ukraine for reconstruction. It does

1:12:33

not have to be paid by American taxpayers or German

1:12:35

taxpayers or French taxpayers. There's money

1:12:37

stolen by Putin's 360 from

1:12:40

Russia and kept abroad that

1:12:42

could be actually transferred to Ukraine. So,

1:12:45

Clarissa, 360 know, we talk about the idea of other

1:12:47

possible charges than you did with Korean con.

1:12:49

Right? There are any sense of what other evidence

1:12:51

they're collecting at this point to try to make those

1:12:53

other charges?

1:12:54

Donald Berwick:

1:12:57

Well, I think perhaps understandably, John,

1:12:59

there are being a little bit circumspect about

1:13:01

giving any details about

1:13:04

ongoing investigations. But

1:13:06

what 360 Khan did say is

1:13:08

that essentially 360 is

1:13:10

a crime scene right now. And whether

1:13:12

it's the massacre of Búcha, whether

1:13:14

it's some of the atrocities that we've seen

1:13:17

in 360 where civilians

1:13:19

taking shelter in a theater were

1:13:21

killed in the hundreds by air

1:13:23

strikes where a maternity hospital

1:13:26

was also bombed. There

1:13:28

are multiple avenues that they can

1:13:30

pursue. Now, obviously, there's always

1:13:33

the constraint of time and resources

1:13:35

because what I do think, prosecutor

1:13:38

Khan feels very intensely is the pressure

1:13:40

of getting it right if

1:13:42

you're going to build the case. It's

1:13:44

got to be rock solid. It's got to be ironclad.

1:13:47

And that's as you just heard mister

1:13:49

Casper of kind of elucidating

1:13:51

their why it was in important to start with this

1:13:53

forced deportation of Ukrainian

1:13:55

children is because this was done

1:13:58

flagrantly, basically. 360

1:14:02

by the Russian state, by Vladimir

1:14:04

Putin in conjunction, of course, with miss

1:14:06

LOVOO, 360. And so it

1:14:08

makes sense as a starting point, but there

1:14:10

are many other lines of inquiry

1:14:13

and investigation and allegations that

1:14:15

they are looking into. And the

1:14:17

hope is that this is just the beginning,

1:14:19

that they're building momentum, and we will

1:14:21

see more like

1:14:23

this to come. So 360,

1:14:25

you tweeted today, I don't care if Putin leaves

1:14:27

his bunker in chains or in a box, but

1:14:29

his trial could be an education for

1:14:32

brainwashed Russians who must confront

1:14:34

their culpability on his crimes. There would be

1:14:36

backlash and denial, but the facts

1:14:38

would come out. You really think that

1:14:40

you really

1:14:40

think at this point that the Russians will learn

1:14:42

something from this? 360,

1:14:45

yes, that before this moment comes,

1:14:47

we need Ukraine to win the war. Ukraine

1:14:49

victory. As I've been saying for a long time,

1:14:52

alongside those my 360, like Michael Khodorkovsky

1:14:54

and other foreign Russians who believe that

1:14:56

Victor for Ukraine is the beginning of liberation

1:14:59

of Russia from Putin's fascism. Only

1:15:01

decisive Korean victory. It will include full

1:15:03

liberation of the country, including Crimea

1:15:05

and 360 of Sarvastopol, reparations being

1:15:08

paid and war crimes

1:15:11

tribunal. Those are three key components

1:15:14

for Russia to have a chance, historic

1:15:16

chance, to leave behind Empire,

1:15:19

about all 360 illusions and

1:15:22

and a hero past,

1:15:24

mostly criminal past, and to

1:15:27

try to build a new state, a nation

1:15:29

state. Some kind of loose confederation

1:15:32

of of many Russian regions that would like to

1:15:34

to have a fresh start. 360

1:15:36

Kasperoff, we do appreciate your time tonight, Corus,

1:15:38

award as always. Thank you so much. FOR

1:15:40

YOUR REPORTING. NEXT, YOU'RE

1:15:42

GOING TO HEAR FROM ALENAGENESS, A

1:15:44

360 MOTHER OF THREE NOW LIVING HERE IN THE

1:15:47

UNITED STATES HER THOUGHT ON THE ARREST WARRENS

1:15:49

SOMETHING SHE'S BEEN DEMANDING SINCE HER VERY FIRST

1:15:51

APPEARANCE ON three sixty. TODAY

1:15:54

A PROSECUTOR IN THE HAG MADE 360. Sadly

1:15:57

though, the largest story has already been

1:15:59

written month after month in

1:16:01

tears. Days after the Russians

1:16:03

invaded Ukraine, Anderson's SPOK FOR THE FIRST

1:16:05

OF MANY TIMES TO OUR NEXT GUESS, ALONG

1:16:08

WITH HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, THEY WERE LIVING

1:16:10

PEACEfully IN THE CAPITOL 360 WHEN THE

1:16:12

ATTACK BEGAN AND missiles

1:16:14

first landed there. And she's given

1:16:16

us a grounds eye view of this war at

1:16:19

every critical stage from the initial invasion

1:16:21

to the siege of Kiev to the Ukrainian counter

1:16:23

assault. In fact, It was during that

1:16:25

first interview on February twenty eighth of

1:16:27

last year when she said this about her

1:16:29

hope that Vladimir Putin would one

1:16:31

day face justice.

1:16:34

You see, he just decided to take

1:16:36

to stand here his troops and airplanes and

1:16:39

to bump my city and kill my people simply

1:16:41

because he wanted And for this, Putin

1:16:43

has to be punished. And for this, Putin has

1:16:46

to be imprisoned. He to

1:16:48

take him to hug international court

1:16:51

because what he has done is an international

1:16:54

360 and awful crime. Because thousands

1:16:56

of people already died and

1:16:58

they are not they are innocent

1:17:01

victims. We are

1:17:02

glad that Elanaganese who now lives

1:17:05

the United States under the uniting

1:17:07

for Ukraine program could join us once

1:17:09

again on this historic day.

1:17:12

Elena, thank you so much for joining us. You've been

1:17:14

calling for Vladimir Putin to be punished and held accountable

1:17:17

for the 360 that have happened in your country

1:17:19

from the very beginning of the

1:17:20

invasion. So so what are you feeling today

1:17:23

after this announcement from the ICC?

1:17:27

I feel that it's better later

1:17:29

than ever, so I welcome the decision,

1:17:32

but I also know that the list of

1:17:34

the crimes that Putin has committed is

1:17:36

much longer than this. We

1:17:38

see killed civilians, injured

1:17:40

civilians, raped women

1:17:42

and men and children 360 see destroyed

1:17:45

villages and towns, the whole

1:17:47

towns which has scorched, you know,

1:17:49

to zero level. So

1:17:51

the list is very long and now I'm looking

1:17:53

forward for more decisions,

1:17:56

for more tough decisions because

1:17:58

The only there is no alternative, but,

1:18:01

you know, to have put

1:18:03

him to hold him accountable and

1:18:05

to have him in the International Criminal

1:18:07

Court.

1:18:07

So when Anderson

1:18:09

visited you in Kiev last year, there was this moment,

1:18:12

this incredible moment, when your

1:18:14

daughter, Kasha, listed places in you FreIM

1:18:16

WHERE 360 HAVE TAKEN PLACE. I WANT TO LISTEN

1:18:18

TO THAT.

1:18:21

WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN BUTCHA IS

1:18:25

In my new open. In my new open. It's

1:18:26

it's awful. And now I am ready to

1:18:28

fight. You know, this

1:18:31

is for tangible. You know, when now I The

1:18:35

children know by heart the names

1:18:37

of places, atrocities have been committed.

1:18:40

So as we said, it really is something that your

1:18:42

daughter knew the names of these places.

1:18:45

Even though these ICC charges

1:18:47

aren't related to those atrocities, 360 do

1:18:50

you think that this moment, this historic moment

1:18:53

represents for the people in Ukraine?

1:18:56

I

1:18:56

think that you see even a child

1:18:58

knows the evidence says

1:19:01

that on the surface. You cannot pretend

1:19:03

you are blinds and don't see them. You know,

1:19:05

even a child could tell you the names

1:19:07

of this cities. And unfortunately,

1:19:09

360 then, a lot of more

1:19:11

places were heavily destroyed. A

1:19:14

lot of more crimes happened.

1:19:15

And unfortunately, Putin,

1:19:18

he doesn't get 360

1:19:19

doesn't care about this decision.

1:19:22

I mean, I welcome this decision, but this decision

1:19:25

doesn't stop Putin right now. And

1:19:27

unfortunately, as we are talking

1:19:29

right now, Putin continues destroying.

1:19:32

Ukraine and killing people in Ukraine.

1:19:34

So what more needs to happen in your eyes

1:19:37

to hold Putin accountable? 360

1:19:40

needs to be arrested. What needs

1:19:42

to be done to a terrorist who is

1:19:44

committing crimes? Who to any

1:19:47

criminal who commits crimes? I

1:19:49

mean, what if your neighbor just, you know,

1:19:51

starts destroying your home,

1:19:53

killing your people, raping your

1:19:55

children and then you addressed to the police

1:19:57

and what police tells you that, you know, this

1:20:00

guy has 360 big guns so we can

1:20:02

address him. So just try to negotiate

1:20:04

with him. It's not an option.

1:20:06

We cannot normalize any crime

1:20:09

and a crime of this huge,

1:20:11

you know, level. Can it be normalize

1:20:14

at all? Because, you know, the world is

1:20:16

watching. And we have other countries

1:20:18

who are watching right now. So,

1:20:20

okay, Putin violated all international

1:20:22

360 and so what? He

1:20:25

still can go forward and

1:20:28

only force can stop them. So what

1:20:30

Ukraine needs is weapon. More

1:20:32

weapons and, you know, in

1:20:34

half of weapons to stop. I'm not saying that

1:20:36

America is given and other countries

1:20:39

are given little, not it's

1:20:41

a lot. But unfortunately, it's not enough.

1:20:43

Not because you are not helping Ukraine

1:20:47

much. But because Putin is more aggressive,

1:20:49

360 insane. That's insane.

1:20:51

TIRON. Adrienne: JUST

1:20:54

LASTLY, YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ARE TEMPORARILY ALL

1:20:56

IN THE UNITED STATES STAYING WITH THE HOST FAMILY.

1:20:59

WE SPOKE WITH YOU JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO AROUND THE ONE

1:21:01

YEAR anniversary of

1:21:02

the invasion. How are you all doing?

1:21:05

We are doing krillin'

1:21:07

great, apart from the feeling of guilt,

1:21:10

is it we are alive? But I think

1:21:12

every Ukrainian has this guilt. But

1:21:14

we've been on a very amazing travel.

1:21:16

We visited subscribers of my YouTube channel

1:21:18

in Florida and we visited some 360.

1:21:21

Kite visited Everglades. It's your dream

1:21:23

destination because when she was in the basement,

1:21:25

she was saying that she wants to become

1:21:27

a crocodile and eat food.

1:21:29

So she saw the place of the crocodile. And

1:21:32

we also visited the Canada Space

1:21:34

Center and my children, they touched

1:21:36

the 360 of the moon. And I learned

1:21:38

in the many things think about America, you

1:21:40

know, the worst of 360, when he said,

1:21:42

we go to the moon, we choose to go to the moon.

1:21:46

360 do things because

1:21:48

they are not because they are easy, but because

1:21:50

they are hard. And this

1:21:53

is the real America. And America is

1:21:55

a great country and other grateful

1:21:57

to American people who

1:21:59

are helping us. And

1:22:01

in all these people that were visited.

1:22:04

They are both Democrats and

1:22:06

Republicans, but it doesn't

1:22:08

matter when we talk about

1:22:10

humanity 360, you know, freedom

1:22:13

about this values it, unite

1:22:15

all of us, you know, people of different political

1:22:17

use in America and in

1:22:20

Ukraine and in other countries. We just

1:22:22

have to be united, and we have to be

1:22:24

strong, and we have to be bravely like

1:22:26

Ukraine. Now, brave like my daughter wanted

1:22:29

to become a crocodile and eat

1:22:31

Putin. Putin has to be punished.

1:22:33

Russia is behaving like a 360,

1:22:35

and it will not stop behaving like a terrorist.

1:22:38

Until it is stopped by

1:22:39

force. Well, in the United

1:22:42

States, we are lucky to have you here

1:22:44

if only temporarily I hope

1:22:46

you get to get back to your country

1:22:47

soon. And while I understand the feelings of guilt,

1:22:50

you didn't ask for this. This was done to you. We

1:22:52

thank you 360, very much.

1:22:55

Thank

1:22:56

you. Thank

1:22:56

you. It's always on Earth. Thank you.

1:22:58

Up next,

1:23:00

more on the question that matters so much to

1:23:02

Elena and so many others. Namely, whether

1:23:04

Putin will in fact ever face trial.

1:23:06

We're gonna look at how the International Criminal Court

1:23:09

has brought some of history's other bad actors

1:23:11

to justice AND PROVIDED ACCOUNTABILITY

1:23:13

FOR SOME OF THE PLANET'S WORST MOMENTS

1:23:16

OF INJUSTICE. UNTOUCHABLE

1:23:19

ABOVE THE LAW, 360 TO THINK

1:23:21

SOMEONE LIKE Vladimir Putin, the leader of

1:23:23

global nuclear power, would ever end

1:23:25

up in international custody in go

1:23:27

on trial for war crimes. But

1:23:30

there have been some cases in history where those

1:23:32

seemingly invincible have been held to

1:23:34

account. Matthew Chants has more.

1:23:37

The suspected crime of overseeing the

1:23:40

abduction of Ukrainian children has

1:23:42

earned Vladimir Putin and Maria

1:23:44

LaVolva Belva a place in

1:23:46

a rogue's gallery of alleged

1:23:48

war criminals. Although the ICC

1:23:51

established in the Hague in two thousand and

1:23:53

two, has a checkered record

1:23:55

of bringing those accused of wrongdoing

1:23:58

to justice. Mister Thomas 360 Daido

1:24:01

is guilty of the crimes of ripping and

1:24:03

enlisting children. It took the

1:24:05

court nearly ten years to

1:24:07

get its first conviction. Thomas

1:24:09

Lebanger of the Democratic Republic

1:24:11

of Congo sentence for his role

1:24:14

in recruiting child soldiers. 360

1:24:17

ICC cases have focused on

1:24:19

African states prompting criticism

1:24:22

of disproportionality. 360 former

1:24:25

leader, Momo 360, was charged

1:24:27

with crimes against humanity 360 twenty

1:24:30

eleven. We are implementing that with

1:24:33

clear signals to

1:24:35

those who commit crimes in Libya

1:24:38

or elsewhere. You

1:24:41

cannot gain power or

1:24:43

retain power, 360 drugs as

1:24:45

humanity. The wall will not allow you

1:24:47

to do it. But he was brutally

1:24:50

killed by a Libyan mob before

1:24:52

he could be brought to justice. Before

1:24:54

the ICC, war crimes were

1:24:56

handled by special UN tribunals.

1:24:59

Like that set up to prosecute war crimes

1:25:01

perpetrated in the 360 war

1:25:03

and break up of Yugoslavia. 360 the

1:25:08

high profile trial of SLOBIN

1:25:10

AMOLOSOVICH, the former Eugoslav president,

1:25:13

for the mass killing of innocent people.

1:25:15

I consider this tribunal of force

1:25:18

tribunal an indictment's

1:25:20

force indictment It

1:25:23

is illegal. He died in

1:25:25

jail before his trial ended

1:25:27

denying many the justice they

1:25:29

yearned for. Ratcoma Laddich,

1:25:31

the Bosnian Serb military leader,

1:25:34

was indicted in nineteen ninety

1:25:36

five, but evaded arrest until

1:25:38

twenty eleven The court found

1:25:40

he was guilty of

1:25:41

genocide. And in twenty seventeen,

1:25:43

he began a lifetime prison sentence.

1:25:47

That the bill sentence you sentences

1:25:49

you did by Hayne. But

1:25:51

it was, of course, the new rub rubrics

1:25:53

trials of prominent Nat after

1:25:56

the Second World War had set the standard

1:25:58

for war crimes prosecutions as

1:26:01

far less unity among nations

1:26:03

today, though, about who is guilty

1:26:05

and who is knowledge. And despite

1:26:07

the indictment, few expect the

1:26:10

Russian leader ever to

1:26:12

see the inside of a

1:26:13

court. Matthew Chants,

1:26:15

CNN, London.

1:26:18

Perhaps justice will prevail. The

1:26:20

news continues here on CNN right after

1:26:23

a quick break.

1:26:27

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