0:00

Some of us fight a constant temperature

0:03

battle of bedtime. Too hot,

0:05

too cold, 360 in, feed

0:07

out. These uncomfortable nights

0:09

can cause you to wake up multiple times

0:11

and ruin a good night's sleep. And as

0:13

the seasons change, it's a good time to look

0:15

at how your temperature affects your sleep.

0:17

The Sleep number three sixty smart bed is

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available with temperature balancing technology

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to help you sleep just right.

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Go to 360. Number dot com to learn more about

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how proven quality sleep is

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life changing sleep.

0:32

Today, the NYPD said they have police

0:34

ready to respond to protest should former

0:36

president Trump become the first former

0:38

president to be criminally indicted. It's

0:40

a question of when and also if

0:43

I'm John Berman in for Anderson. Remember,

0:45

according to the former president's own social

0:48

media post this weekend, the indictment was

0:50

supposed to happen today. But he had

0:52

no proof of that. And so 360 we

0:54

are. Yet all indications are that

0:56

something is in the pipeline, but among

0:58

the litany of things we still don't know about

1:00

this indictment. APART FROM IF IT WILL ACTUALLY

1:02

HAPPEN IS HOW WE WILL FIND OUT

1:04

ABOUT IT. HOW WILL TRUMP WILL HE BE ARRESTED?

1:07

WILL 360 APPEAR IN

1:09

COURT? What will the actual charges

1:11

be? Will it be a misdemeanor about trying

1:13

to keep an affair with an adult film star secret

1:16

buy in and this would be the potentially illegal

1:18

part? Falsifying business records.

1:20

Or does the Manhattan DA's office believe

1:23

it has the evidence to sustain a felony

1:25

conviction about this alleged payoff being

1:27

part of a much broader charge about trying

1:29

to influence the election. So that

1:31

is what we don't know. We

1:33

do know that many top Republicans are

1:36

a guess. That anyone would be investigated over

1:38

little simple hush 360, alleged

1:41

simple hush money.

1:44

This was personal money. This one

1:46

tried to hide. This was seven years ago statute

1:48

of limitation. So

1:50

that was the house speaker Kevin McCarthy the

1:52

third and final day of a Republican retreat

1:54

trying to do his best nothing to see here

1:56

Leslie Nielsen impersonation. To review,

1:58

According to the reporting in the Wall Street Journal,

2:01

this money that the former president's then lawyer

2:03

Michael Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels, it

2:05

wasn't done directly. He used an LLC.

2:08

And the names he used to refer to Trump and

2:10

Daniels. They were David Dennison and

2:12

Peggy Peterson. So it kind of sounds

2:14

like somebody was trying to hide something. And

2:16

if 360 McCarthy was being a little sly

2:19

in his defense of the former president, senator

2:21

Rand Paul was not. He went full

2:24

boar in his attack of the Manhattan district

2:26

attorney, Alvin Bragg tweeting, quote,

2:28

a Trump indictment would be a disgusting

2:30

abuse of power. The DA should be

2:32

put in jail. Jail.

2:35

Really? He must have some serious

2:37

evidence or something to say something like that.

2:39

Right? Wrong. 360

2:42

asked him about that tweet today. Here was his

2:44

response, quote, I think we'll stick

2:46

with just what we tweeted out if you want

2:48

to report that. No evidence.

2:51

Alabama senator, Tommy Tuberville, weighed

2:53

in two on Manhattan DA Alvin

2:55

Bragg. I

2:56

think

2:56

he should be accountable of what he's doing. I mean, nobody's

2:59

ever done this. This is unprecedented going

3:01

after a former president of United States

3:03

that is

3:05

running for president. What if he broke the law?

3:09

Broke law, you gotta you gotta pay the price.

3:12

But, I mean, I haven't looked

3:14

into it enough. Got

3:16

it. This is unprecedented, but

3:19

I haven't looked into it enough. That

3:21

about sums it up. Hammer the talking points

3:23

fact, be damned or at least

3:25

distant. Look, we don't know

3:28

what's coming down the pipeline or even if

3:30

anything's coming down the pipeline, but we

3:32

do know enough to be able to

3:34

wait and see what happens before suggesting

3:37

people go to jail. Let's start tonight

3:39

with Democratic congressman Dan Goldman, a former

3:41

federal officer who was the Democratic Council

3:43

to the House Intelligence Committee during president

3:45

Trump's first impeachment inquiry. Congressman,

3:47

thanks so much for being with us. Look, 360

3:50

of your Republican colleagues and you just heard Speaker

3:52

McCarthy there are disparaging district

3:54

attorney Alvin Bragg and the probe downplaying

3:57

the investigation before it's

3:58

concluded. What do you say to their argument that

4:00

an indictment would be partisan and politically

4:02

motivated?

4:05

Well, they certainly weren't saying that when Alvin

4:07

Bragg a year ago decided to

4:09

go against the recommendation of his

4:11

very experienced prosecutors and

4:14

not indict Donald Trump. But what they're

4:16

trying to basically do is pick and choose

4:18

what they view as political and what

4:20

they view as reasonable

4:23

and following the law. And that basically

4:25

comes down to whatever the outcome

4:27

is as it relates to Donald Trump. It's

4:29

very clear they're doing the bidding of Donald

4:31

Trump and trying to

4:33

undermine this investigation

4:35

even to the point of potentially obstructing

4:37

it. Obstructing. Now

4:40

hang on here because you actually use that

4:42

word in a statement you

4:44

put out before. You said from

4:46

day one, and this has to do with House Judiciary

4:48

Chair Jim Jordan and others trying to

4:50

get Alvin Bragg before their committees. You said from

4:52

day one, I said the so called weaponization

4:55

sub committee was more aptly named the committee

4:57

to obstruct justice as

4:59

if on cue House Republicans and I are using the official

5:01

power of the Congress to try to struck a state

5:03

prosecution of Donald Trump. So obstruction,

5:06

which you use in that statement just 360, has a pretty

5:08

strong word. What exactly do you

5:10

mean by obstruction?

5:13

Well, when you look at the threats, when you

5:15

look at the accusations, and

5:17

when you look at the

5:20

360 language in that letter in particular.

5:23

It is very clear that they are

5:25

trying to influence,

5:28

put it that way, Alvin Bragg in some

5:30

way, and influencing a prosecutorial

5:33

decision or witness testimony

5:35

or otherwise, can be

5:37

obstruction of justice. Now, I

5:39

don't I'm not saying that they have committed

5:42

a crime here, but I think what is very clear

5:44

is that they are trying to interfere

5:47

and influence this investigation without

5:50

knowing the facts and without knowing

5:52

the evidence And 360, they're

5:54

trying to put Donald Trump above

5:57

the

5:57

law, and that is antithetical

6:00

to our fundamental ITOL RULE OF LAW

6:02

WHICH IS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS ONE OF

6:04

LAWS NOT MEN. SO

6:06

SOME LEGAL EXPERTS AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT

6:08

TRUMP APOLOGISTS 360. Have said that this

6:10

is not the strongest case on

6:12

its merits. As a former federal prosecutor

6:14

and lead counsel on the first Trump

6:16

impeachment, do you think it is?

6:20

Well, look, I think if you look at the actual facts

6:22

and you went through some of that in your opening,

6:25

Donald Trump used a

6:27

home equity loan by taken

6:30

out by Michael Cohen to pay a hundred and

6:32

thirty thousand dollars to a porn

6:34

star three weeks before the election to

6:36

silence a decade old affair.

6:39

360 was then reimbursed by

6:41

falsifying the rationale through

6:44

the Trump organization. It was

6:46

clear that Donald Trump was trying

6:49

to avoid having this become public

6:51

and a political liability before

6:53

his election. For

6:55

a variety of reasons, the southern district of New

6:58

York, the federal prosecutor did not charge

7:00

this case. And so now it's really

7:02

up to mister Bragg to determine whether or

7:04

not he thinks that it should be

7:06

though that fact pattern should be charged

7:09

in state court where the law is

7:11

not as clear on campaign finance

7:13

fraud as it is

7:14

federally. And so of all the investigations that

7:16

former president faces, which

7:19

do you think It is the most

7:21

legally perilous because you would be

7:23

hard pressed to find anyone who does

7:25

think it is this case that could be brought

7:27

by the Manhattan DA.

7:31

I would agree with that. I think the fact that Donald

7:33

Trump conspired with a number of others

7:35

to overturn the twenty twenty election is

7:37

far more serious than the conduct here.

7:39

That doesn't mean that because it's more

7:41

serious that that

7:44

and that this conduct is not serious,

7:46

But that is fundamental

7:49

effort to overturn our democracy and

7:52

peaceful transfer of power. And that

7:54

investigation by the special council, to

7:56

me as far and away the most serious and

7:59

the most concerning

8:01

from, you know, any American citizen

8:03

that's that's viewing this. So

8:05

the Manhattan DA is not as serious as the others,

8:08

but you still think potentially it'd be worth

8:10

pursuing.

8:13

That's really up to mister brag. I I don't know

8:15

the evidence here. I know

8:17

that there is a process that Donald Trump

8:19

can use to challenge the

8:22

this charge legally or factually,

8:24

that there are twelve jurors that need to be

8:26

unanimous to find his guilt beyond a

8:28

reasonable doubt And I wish

8:30

that my Republican colleagues would focus

8:33

on the process that

8:35

is laid out and has been exist

8:37

in existence for two hundred and fifty

8:39

years to let a defendant

8:42

like Donald Trump make his

8:44

defense if he wants to rather than

8:47

make these accusations and allegations

8:50

and try to undermine this investigation. 360

8:52

could wait and see what happens.

8:54

In other

8:55

words, congressman Dan Golan, great to see you. Thanks so

8:57

much. Thank

8:59

you, John. So federal authorities, including

9:01

those at the FBI and homeland security,

9:04

have detected an increase in violent rhetoric

9:06

online, including calls for Civil

9:08

War since the former president this weekend

9:10

asked followers quote, protest

9:12

is possible impending arrest. We should

9:14

know this is just online chatter, but

9:17

something authorities are taking seriously nonetheless.

9:19

I'm joined now by senior and senior political commentator

9:21

Adam Kinzinger, former Republican congressman,

9:23

a member of the January 360 select committee.

9:25

AND SEEING A NATIONAL SECURITY ANALIST 360 CAYAM

9:28

A FORMER U. S. ASSISTANCE SECRETARY FOR

9:30

HOMELAND 360. CONGRESSMAN JUST BEFORE WE GET

9:32

TO THE SECURITY SITUATION. What

9:34

does it say to you that some of your Republican colleagues

9:36

are using their government power to

9:38

try to keep the former president's legal

9:41

threats at bay or at least run what

9:43

Dan Goldman here said his interference for

9:45

him. Yeah. I mean, I think it's pretty showing. I

9:47

think, look, let's see what this is.

9:49

They it's like they've already made up their mind. They

9:51

know all the evidence. They've they've come

9:53

to a conclusion that's not how justice works.

9:55

You know, I'll tell you there's a phenomenon. I'll

9:58

try to do this in fifteen seconds that

10:00

exist when you're Congressman that

10:03

is kind of a bit not all

10:05

in with Donald Trump, and your base keeps telling

10:07

you how come you're not defending Trump more. And

10:09

something like this comes along. And you

10:11

basically emote all of that intensity

10:13

360 defend Donald Trump the best you can

10:15

so you can go back to your, you know, Lincoln

10:17

Day dinners and tell your Republican base. See, I'm

10:19

defending Donald Trump. By the way, I saw that

10:21

impeachment votes. You see that in holding

10:23

people in contempt for ignoring subpoenas like

10:25

in January six. And I think you're seeing

10:27

some of that here where 360 can convince

10:30

themselves that this is egregious. They're gonna

10:32

be extremely loud about it. That allows them to

10:34

go back to their base and say they're fighting to

10:36

defend Donald

10:37

Trump. Now on the security front, Juliet,

10:39

CNN is reporting the federal officials, including

10:41

those at the FBI Department of Homeland Security,

10:43

they are monitoring what they say has been an uptick

10:46

in violent rhetoric online, including calls

10:48

for civil

10:49

war. What's your take on this? What are you

10:51

seeing? Absolutely. So

10:53

and one would anticipate a beta given Donald

10:55

Trump's language this weekend 360

10:58

a protest, but also talking

11:00

about bringing America, you know, taking America

11:03

back It's the language that we heard on

11:05

January sixth. But times are very

11:07

different. It's very easy for people to go online

11:09

and talk about civil war. But

11:11

in terms of the

11:14

radicalization, I wanna focus on

11:16

the violent radicalization that that

11:18

showed itself on January

11:20

sixth. The environment is very different now.

11:22

I mean, it's not only because of what the

11:24

former congressman and his colleagues did

11:27

in terms of sort of turning

11:29

the the GOP narrative against Trump,

11:31

trying to give an up front to to

11:33

Republicans in terms of you don't

11:35

have to be with the sky to the rest. Of

11:38

a couple hundred people, which takes away

11:40

your troops to the fact that Donald

11:42

Trump is essentially de platforms. He

11:44

cannot give people get out of

11:46

jail free card, and

11:48

also you that that he

11:50

cannot fill the protest.

11:52

I we've already seen him try to and there's like

11:55

a sort of a big yawn. All of those

11:57

together over the two

11:59

years means that he may be a lot of smoke

12:01

and a lot of fire and a lot

12:03

of anger, but he

12:05

cannot deliver on

12:08

the kind of incitement that

12:10

we worried about the the sort of existential

12:13

acite incitement, the climate

12:15

could really harm America that he

12:17

could before, and that is

12:19

gonna take a lot of, I think, hopefully,

12:22

the gas out of whatever becomes

12:24

of Trump in this movement in the future after the

12:26

arrest. But what if he has a few more days, congressman,

12:28

and I ask that because CNN is reporting

12:31

that if Trump is indicted, they don't

12:33

expect his arrest or initial appearance

12:35

to happen before next

12:37

360. So we could find out about an indictment

12:39

and then have four or five days

12:41

before he were to show up. In New York

12:44

City for the actual processing. Now I get

12:46

that could be so they can get the security preparations

12:48

out of the way. But couldn't he use that time

12:50

if he wanted to to drum

12:52

up protests

12:54

or some kind of activity? Absolutely.

12:56

I mean, look, you know, in one way it's a

12:58

blessing 360 that we we don't see what

13:00

he most of the time he's just yelling in the dark

13:03

room to a few people on truth social. But

13:05

if you actually look at what he is saying,

13:07

I mean, we cannot grow numb to this.

13:10

360 can't grow numb to the fact that he has basically

13:12

said Americans are the 360, not Russia.

13:14

You know, we have to stop justice

13:17

from occurring in essence. Don't put

13:19

anything past him. There's always times where I sit back and

13:21

I'm like, well, I don't think Donald Trump would come

13:23

out and do x, y, and z. I no

13:25

longer believe that there's any 360 on him.

13:27

So I think it is quite possible that in

13:29

that intervening time between the indictment

13:31

and the process. And I'm not sure why there'd be

13:33

a big distance, but, you know, I'll leave that to the

13:36

experts. But in that time, he certainly

13:38

could gin up enough people to show up

13:40

and try to block the way or create problems.

13:42

Look, there's I don't think I agree with

13:44

you. There's not a a ton of belief

13:46

that it's gonna be like another January sex necessarily.

13:49

Mhmm. But there are a number of people on Twitter

13:51

right now saying things like civil wars

13:53

coming, civil wars happening. And if just

13:55

one or two percent of Americans believe that, that's

13:58

like, what, six million Americans or

13:59

something. So 360, do you think these few days, potential

14:02

few days? Or a smart 360? And how

14:04

do you think that city and federal officials

14:06

should get

14:06

ready? Donald Berwick: Well, this is so

14:08

this is the unprecedented ask effect of this.

14:10

So 360, they they have to have an indictment

14:13

before they can act. Right? You cannot sort

14:15

of just say, this this could happen because Trump

14:17

said it happened, so they have to then get the

14:19

facility ready. They have

14:21

to hope that they

14:23

can negotiate a

14:26

very voluntary, very

14:29

quiet. I say hope, not I wasn't

14:31

born yesterday. In

14:34

movement, for Donald Trump and work

14:36

with the Secret Service to essentially bring

14:38

this body from Florida to

14:40

New York and back. The Secret

14:42

Service and the Department of Homeland

14:45

Security do not owe Donald

14:47

Trump anything anymore. They are they

14:49

are 360 is a

14:52

360 is someone that they protect. He's a 360,

14:54

but they do not. He does not no

14:56

longer controls what they can do,

14:59

so they can make this relatively easy

15:01

for the United States. So there's a lot of

15:03

activity going on around the

15:06

person and then of course the 360.

15:08

Time is not good in sense that

15:10

he can agitate more people. On

15:12

the other hand, time does give

15:15

some 360 to lower the temperature

15:17

and also to show that he cannot get

15:19

people out there. I mean, that's the one thing that's

15:21

been amazing in the last couple of days.

15:24

You got like four people in front of Trump

15:26

Tower and, like, five in front of Mar

15:28

a Lago, I'm not minimizing the

15:30

hate out there, but that's a much

15:32

better that is a much better

15:34

scenario than the alternative at this

15:36

stage.

15:37

Julia Keim, congressman 360. Thanks so

15:39

much. Yep. Still to come. The backstory

15:41

about how we got from a former Playboy model,

15:43

an adult film actress to a possible indictment

15:45

of a former president. Ronan Ferro

15:47

has reported on this story and joins us ahead.

15:50

Plus, WILL RUPEL BROCCAN HIS SON, THE

15:52

360 OF THE COMPANY THAT OWNS FOX NEWS, BEFORE

15:54

IT TO TESTIFY IN THE BILLION dollars

15:56

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changing sleep.

17:36

It is important to remember that any criminal charge

17:38

of the former president out of the Manhattan Grand

17:40

jury investigation, if it happens,

17:42

would be the culmination of a tale that began before

17:45

the twenty sixteen election and co star an

17:47

adult film actress and a play model

17:49

as well as that then head of the company

17:51

that own the national enquirer. It is

17:53

a tale very well known by my next

17:55

guest. He is the author of Catch and Kill, lies

17:57

fires in a conspiracy to protect predators.

18:00

We're joined now by author Ronan Ferro, who

18:02

is also contributing writer to the New Yorker.

18:05

So, Stormy

18:07

Daniels, and this gets to a lot of your

18:09

360. She'd approached the National Enquirer

18:11

with her story and tried to get them to buy it

18:13

from

18:14

her. But they turned her down more

18:16

or less. Is it clear why they passed?

18:19

So my reporting was

18:21

on a string of interactions that

18:24

Trump and people around him, including Michael

18:26

Cohen, had with AMI, the

18:28

parent company at the time of the the national 360. And

18:32

proved out, I believe, pretty thoroughly, that

18:35

there was an ongoing arrangement to

18:38

pay hush money to catch and

18:40

Kill is the the journalistic term

18:43

that was used in the tabloid

18:44

world. It's unflattering stories

18:47

about Trump. So the catch and kill system,

18:49

which you just brought up, orchestrated, or

18:52

involving David Peker, who was

18:54

the the former publisher of

18:55

AMI, how did it

18:57

work

19:00

The concept is very basic. The

19:02

Enquirer forged an alliance

19:04

with Donald Trump David Pecker

19:06

and his 360, Dylan

19:09

Howard, were both heavily

19:11

involved in this arrangement by which

19:13

they would go out and seek unflattering and

19:16

usually tautry stories about Donald

19:18

Trump, and they would

19:20

pay money for the rights to those 360. Which

19:23

entailed essentially muzzling the people

19:26

in possession of those stories. And

19:29

instead of running, the results of that

19:31

transact in the inquirer, they

19:34

would sit on it. And I, at one point in my 360,

19:37

got access to a master list

19:40

of many many stories

19:42

that over the years the inquiry had

19:45

done this with with respect to Trump.

19:48

So Anderson spoke with Karen McDougal

19:50

back in twenty eighteen, the Playboy model

19:52

who says she had an affair with Trump and

19:54

was paid for her

19:55

silence. I'm gonna play part of that interview where

19:57

she explains her experience with this

20:00

catch and kill process.

20:01

What's your understanding about catch and kill is?

20:03

Catch us from what I'm learning, a catch

20:05

and kill is somebody for,

20:08

like, say, for yourself, for

20:09

example, taking a story about

20:11

somebody you like or care about or have a

20:13

friendship about, and

20:15

they squash a 360, so it doesn't hurt you.

20:17

So it hurt them.

20:19

Did you know that that's what

20:21

was going? That's the allegation

20:23

of what was going on

20:24

here. Did you did

20:26

you realize that at the time? I

20:28

knew the story wasn't gonna be printed. Yeah.

20:31

Why do you think they squash the story?

20:35

Back then or now? No. They

20:40

they they didn't wanna hurt

20:41

him. You think

20:43

it's because of a personal relationship with

20:46

the guy who runs AMI,

20:48

his friends with Donald Trump? Correct.

20:50

So to that point road and

20:53

why was David Peker protecting

20:55

Trump like this. What did he what did the

20:57

acquirer get out of it all?

21:00

Well, there's now a lot of literature on

21:02

this. And David Peker appeared to really

21:04

enjoy the friendship with

21:06

Trump and the largest as Trump

21:08

could afford And I think David

21:10

Pepper and Dylan Howard, you know, this

21:12

is according to many, many dozens

21:15

of hours of interviews with people who are in

21:17

in the rooms with them around these decisions. They

21:21

all all wanted to ride

21:23

on Trump's political coattails as well.

21:25

And then there was a dawning realization

21:28

by Dylan Howard and other that what

21:30

they were doing was going to look

21:32

very bad. I mean, that was said in some of those internal

21:34

text messages pretty directly

21:37

almost word for

21:37

word. And and now we're seeing the consequences. So

21:40

David Peker did meet with prosecutors

21:43

in this case that we're dealing with this week and

21:45

reportedly testified to the grand jury What

21:47

kind of information do you think he might be able

21:49

to provide?

21:51

Well, what's interesting is when I was reporting

21:53

on these hush payments through

21:55

AMI, including Karen with

21:57

Google's 360. The the

21:59

inquirer folks were lying

22:01

to us, and they were giving a statement saying, this never

22:04

happened. You have it all wrong. And subsequently,

22:06

they have had to admit to

22:09

what was alleged in that 360 and

22:11

some in substance in their agreement

22:13

with federal prosecutors. Now

22:17

when these individuals are talking to

22:19

additional prosecutors after that admission,

22:22

I think there's gonna be a lot more information.

22:24

What's remarkable about this, John, is it

22:26

it is not new information.

22:29

These facts are out there. Know,

22:31

they were in my 360. The Wall Street Journal did

22:34

really potent reporting on this. The

22:37

the record is kind of established and and

22:39

people like her can speak to it and

22:41

reinforce it. The question is, how is

22:43

it gonna resonate with the jury, especially

22:45

with this novel legal theory that's

22:47

at the foundation of the case? And how's it

22:49

gonna resonate politically? I I, you know,

22:51

heard from a prosecutor that

22:54

that in their words, this is a

22:56

a billion dollar gift to Donald

22:58

Trump

22:59

referring, in other words, to the amount that

23:01

he'll be able to fund rates off the back

23:03

of this.

23:04

It has been a long road. We will

23:06

see where it winds next, Ronan Faroe.

23:08

Great to see you. Thanks

23:10

so much. Always great to see you.

23:13

Up next, attorneys for Fox News and

23:15

Dominion Voting Systems battle it out

23:17

in COUR TODAY IN THAT one point six BILLION

23:19

dollars DEFINATION CASE 360 HAVE THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS

23:21

AHEAD. Lawyers

23:24

FOR FOX NEWS AND THE VOTING EQUIPMENT COMPANY

23:26

DIMINION SPENT six hours in court today

23:28

wrangling over the one point six billion

23:30

dollar defamation case against the

23:32

right wing network, and they will be back at it again

23:34

tomorrow. A Dominion lawyer told the judge

23:36

today, quote, the fix was in, arguing

23:39

that Fox hosts knew they were promoting

23:41

false claims about Dominion ringing the twenty

23:43

twenty election and kept booking guests

23:45

who prompted the lies. Fox

23:47

argues it is protected by the first amendment.

23:49

It claims it can't be held liable for airing

23:52

newsworthy allegations from public figures

23:54

Both sides want the judge to decide the case

23:56

without going to a 360. But if it

23:58

does go to trial, Dominion wants Fox

24:01

Chair, Rupert Murdoch, and his CEO

24:03

son, Laughlin, to testify. 360

24:05

senior media reporter Oliver Darcy joins

24:08

us now with much more on all

24:09

this. So Oliver, what more was revealed

24:11

today about what was going on behind the scenes? A lot

24:13

of what you saw today John was Dominion

24:16

trying to bring to life the legal filings

24:18

they have made in this case over the past several

24:20

months. And so one instance you saw

24:23

them reading a text message that they obtained during

24:25

discovery from Tucker Carlson. That

24:28

message was to Sean Hannity and Laura Ingram, in

24:30

which he said, Our viewers are good people

24:32

and they believe it referring to these election

24:34

conspiracy theories. They were pushing on Fox's

24:36

air even though they knew that they were false.

24:39

I I think a key thing too to keep in mind

24:41

as you watch this play out in court

24:43

is how the judge is reacting to some of

24:45

Fox's arguments and you saw him today

24:48

exceedingly skeptical at times

24:50

about the defense that Fox was putting

24:52

forth in the courtroom And I think that's going

24:54

to be very important as 360 both

24:56

sides, like you said, ask the judge to

24:58

rule in their favor ahead of a possible trial.

25:00

How was it that Dominion was trying to

25:02

make the case? That the fix was in?

25:04

Well, you saw in one case that they pointed

25:07

to Mike Lindell who is obviously an

25:09

election conspiracy theorist And they

25:11

talked about how they knew that he was an election

25:13

conspiracy theorist, but they still put him on

25:16

there, arguing that it was a business

25:18

relationship they wanted to preserve A 360 to

25:20

you what one of the dominion lawyers actually said in

25:22

open court. He said, they were putting

25:24

Lindell on air for business purposes.

25:26

They knew Lindell was 360, but

25:28

they also knew he was their highest advertiser

25:31

and they were just trying to massage

25:33

him. So you can see this argument

25:36

taking place here and starting to

25:38

take shape as they argue that a

25:40

lot of the coverage at Fox was

25:42

not based on what was true and what was false,

25:44

but based on business decisions 360

25:47

advertisers happy, keeping ratings

25:49

up, not losing ground to competitors

25:51

like NewsMax. All over 360, thank

25:53

you so much. You know, you're re watching again tomorrow.

25:56

Perspective now from retired first amendment lawyer,

25:58

Lee Levine, who was represented, who has

26:00

represented both Fox News and CNN.

26:02

In cases, Lee, thanks for being with us. Look, Tucker

26:05

Carlson messages they've been previously mentioned

26:07

in court filings, but to have them highlighted an

26:09

open court in front of the

26:10

judge, how damaging do you think that

26:13

is to Fox?

26:16

Well, the judge has obviously seen all of

26:18

this stuff in the hundreds

26:20

of pages of briefing that's been

26:22

filed. So it's really just

26:24

the point of emphasis for the judge. It's

26:26

an opportunity for Dominion to

26:30

show the judge what they think is the

26:32

most significant evidence and

26:34

likewise for Fox to show

26:36

the judge what they think is the most significant evidence.

26:39

I think the most significant thing about

26:41

today's proceeding was precisely

26:44

360 Oliver just said was that it

26:46

it took six hours and it's gonna continue

26:48

into tomorrow. I've

26:50

litigated these cases for forty years.

26:53

I never had a a hearing

26:55

on a motion like this that lasted

26:57

more than now or two. This

26:59

judge is taking this very seriously. He

27:01

is devoting a lot of time and

27:03

attention to

27:04

it, and he is going to make

27:06

sure he understands all the arguments

27:08

before he rules. Do you think

27:10

that is beneficial to one side

27:13

or the other Oliver was mentioning the judge

27:15

360 to preclude or block

27:17

or at least be skeptical of

27:19

some of the possible defenses that Fox might

27:21

make.

27:22

Howard Bauchner: Yeah, and

27:24

I think in fairness, he was skeptical of

27:26

some of the claims that Dominion was making

27:29

as well. Although on

27:31

balance, I think he was

27:33

sending signals that coincide

27:36

with what many of us have been thinking

27:39

all along, which is that he

27:41

might throw out some of the

27:43

claims based on some of the broadcasts,

27:46

but he is not going to dismiss this

27:49

entire case. And the moon

27:51

shot that Fox has taken this overarching

27:53

argument that it's allowed

27:55

to report on allegations that it

27:57

knows or false. Because a

27:59

reasonable viewer would understand that

28:02

Fox wasn't endorsing those 360. I

28:04

think he's gonna leave the question of whether

28:07

Fox was endorsing. Those

28:09

falsehoods to a

28:10

360 Bauchner: So is there a meaningful

28:12

distinction? And that gets to what you're just talking about

28:14

there. Between Fox,

28:16

guests, spewing fraudulent claims

28:18

about the twenty twenty election being stolen.

28:21

Guess that they know that Fox knows when they book

28:23

them, gonna say that. And Fox hosts

28:25

repeating the same claims.

28:29

You know, as Fox's lawyer admitted in

28:31

court today, she said that

28:33

we are not claiming that just

28:36

because one of our guests said it, we're

28:38

off the hook. What we're claiming

28:40

is that because one of our guests

28:42

said it and it news were they had

28:44

no reasonable viewer would understand

28:46

that we were endorsing the falsehood. We're

28:49

not going

28:51

to be held liable or shouldn't be held liable.

28:54

And and that's what it comes down to. Is

28:56

there enough evidence from what your reasonable

28:58

view are? Could come to the conclusion

29:01

with respect to one or more of these

29:03

twenty somewhat broadcasts that have been

29:05

challenged that Fox

29:07

as an institution that the hosts through

29:10

who Fox spoke on 360 shows

29:12

were in fact endorsing the

29:14

falsehoods. And I think that the

29:16

judge's skeptical questions went

29:19

directly to that issue with

29:21

respect to at least several of the broadcasts.

29:23

So you're far more than an average. You were

29:26

360, you were a season first amendment

29:28

lawyer. You know there's a high bar for defamation

29:30

cases against media outlets. So

29:32

how does the evidence that has been put

29:34

out there? We've seen an awful lot measure

29:37

up here.

29:40

Well, I've I've said this before. I

29:43

in forty years of practice, I have

29:45

never seen a case in which there

29:47

was stronger evidence of of

29:49

actual malice, which is knowledge or

29:51

falsity or reckless disregard of the truth.

29:54

You have the normal kinds of evidence

29:57

that is often put forward in cases

29:59

like this that Fox had profit motive

30:01

and that you

30:03

know, the sensationalism,

30:06

sales, and that sort of thing. But you also

30:09

have

30:09

the, you know, the hundreds of text messages

30:12

and emails that show that responsible

30:14

people

30:15

of Fox up and down the line

30:17

were advised by Dominion that this

30:19

information was false. Between

30:22

broadcasts, between re airing

30:25

of broadcasts, and original

30:27

broadcasts, and said

30:30

in text messages and emails that they didn't

30:32

believe it was true themselves, but yet

30:34

went ahead and let these guests

30:36

be booked on the air. And knew

30:39

that they were going to say that the things that they

30:41

said, which Fox knew

30:44

was Fox.

30:45

360, I HAVE A FEELING WERE TO SPEAK TO

30:47

YOU AGAIN. THANK SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US. YOU'RE

30:50

WELCOME.

30:52

HIGH STAKES TALKS BETWEEN RUSSIAN PRESIDENT

30:54

Putin and China Xi Jinping continue today,

30:57

what they said about the war in Ukraine in a

30:59

response from the Ukrainian

31:00

president, Vladimir Zelensky. 360

31:05

of us fight a constant temperature battle

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too cold, feet in, feet

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how proven quality sleep is life

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changing sleep.

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This show is sponsored by ADT.

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32:59

Google, Nest Cam, Nestorbelle, and

33:01

Nestor Ware are trademarks of Google

33:03

LLC. There

33:06

are new developments in the talks between China's leader

33:08

Xi Jinping and Russian president, Blunder Putin,

33:10

the two leaders in a show of unity in Moscow,

33:13

reiterated their pledge to expand ties

33:15

between the nations as well as signing

33:17

a joint declaration on their deepening partnership.

33:19

This comes amid concerns that China might

33:22

provide cover for Russia's military actions

33:24

in Ukraine as both Xi and Putin

33:26

called for an end to actions that, quote,

33:28

increase tensions and prolong

33:30

the conflict. Now the Ukrainian

33:32

president Volodymyr Zelensky says he is

33:34

ready for dialogue with China on

33:37

Ukraine or on the Chinese

33:39

program for peace there.

33:42

CNN 360 international correspondent Matthew Chan

33:44

is in Moscow for us tonight and 360 as Phil Mattingly

33:46

is at the White

33:47

House. Matthew, what more came out of the meeting

33:49

today between Xi and Putin? Well,

33:53

in Fizhou John, it was a very symbolic affair.

33:56

The fact that Xi Jinping was there at all. It's

33:58

very potent message of support from China

34:00

to Russia. There were lots of expressions of

34:03

solidarity between the two countries and

34:06

promises of sort of bringing closer ties.

34:08

That was when it was you know, mainly about

34:10

lot of deals were signed as well. More than a dozen

34:13

projects launched to actually

34:15

physically join the 360 close together,

34:17

bridges and things like that. And economic

34:19

ties, bringing them closer, and there were discussions

34:22

about a new pipeline to take Russian

34:24

gas to China. So Russia

34:26

really redirecting its economy towards

34:29

the east. And of course, they also spoke

34:31

in some detail according to the Kremlin

34:33

about that Chinese peace proposal which

34:36

is very controversial because it calls for

34:38

talks between the two countries, Ukraine and

34:40

Russia, but stop short

34:42

of demanding that Russia pull out of

34:44

the areas it's it's

34:46

conquered. And so 360 were all the

34:48

kinds of things that were discussed as

34:51

Xi Jinping left the

34:53

the the meetings today, 360, you know,

34:55

so you could hear be heard on camera saying

34:57

to Vladimir Putin, look together,

34:59

we're trying to bring about changes that

35:02

haven't happened in a hundred years, and we're

35:04

doing it together. And and Vladimir

35:06

Putin said, yes, I agree. And then Xi

35:08

Jinping drove off. So the the sort of precise

35:10

kind of changes they're trying to bring

35:12

about, it seems are quite dramatic. So

35:15

Phil, at the White House, as you mentioned, how

35:17

skeptical is the White House of this

35:19

summit? Look, I think there was significant

35:21

skepticism heading into the summit 360

35:23

due to the framing from Chinese officials that

35:25

this was essentially a peace mission tied

35:27

to that plan that Matthew was talking about, and

35:29

officials were very cognizant of the fact

35:32

that in the public statements over the course

35:34

of two days, particularly the

35:36

statements today. There was no substantial progress

35:38

cited, no concrete or definitive words

35:42

related to that beyond kind of the broad

35:44

parameters of things. I think that underscored for

35:46

US officials I've spoken to that the skepticism was

35:49

merited. Now, I think they very much acknowledge

35:51

the reality of a relationship that has grown significantly

35:54

closer over the course of the last year,

35:56

but they also frame it in a different manner

35:58

than any kind of alliance or very

36:00

close relationship between two

36:03

similar world powers. They view it as a

36:05

clear acknowledgment of Russia's dependency

36:07

and growing dependency and reliance on

36:10

China on the economic side of things. And

36:12

while they are not sending lethal support at

36:14

least at this point in time, US

36:16

officials believe Chinese officials are also very

36:18

cognizant of that reality and playing it to

36:20

their advantage, but they do make clear.

36:22

They understand the symbolism here. They understand

36:25

The moment this represents what they don't

36:27

believe actually transpired as anything

36:30

significant on a tangible side of things

36:32

as it relates to the conflict in

36:34

Ukraine, but they will certainly be watching the days

36:36

ahead. So so Matthew, what do

36:38

you know or what have you learned about efforts

36:40

to organize a call between she

36:42

and the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky.

36:47

Well, I know I know the efforts underway because

36:49

I've spoken to my sources inside

36:51

Ukraine, and they said that discussions are

36:53

actually taking place to try and work

36:56

out, you know, how and when

36:58

there can be a first conversation. Between

37:01

President Zelensky of Ukraine and

37:03

Xi Jinping of China to discuss

37:05

those peace proposals. And of course, as we know,

37:07

Vladimir 360 himself. The Ukrainian

37:10

president has said that he's very open

37:12

to discussing some sort of peace

37:14

deal with China if

37:17

it if it if it wants to do that. But

37:20

at the moment, 360 officials are

37:22

telling us

37:22

that, you know, nothing concrete has been

37:24

scheduled 360 expecting it

37:26

soon if it's going to happen at all.

37:31

Alright, Matthew Chants. Phil Madden, 360 are

37:33

thanks to both of you. Quick

37:35

programming note, tonight on CNN prime

37:37

time, Pamela Brown takes a closer look at

37:39

all of the Trump investigations with

37:41

legal experts reporters and analysis

37:44

INSIDE THE TRUMP INVESTIGATION'S AARES LIVE

37:46

AT THE TOP OF THE HOUR. SALAH

37:48

HAD NEW DETAILS ON THE MAN ACCUSED OF KILLING FOUR

37:51

UNIVERSITY OF IDAHOT STUDENTS IN OFF CAMPUS

37:53

HOME, WITH DOZENS OF COURT FILINGS REVEAL

37:55

ABOUT THE WEEKS AND DAYS LEADING UP TO THE ARREST.

37:59

BY BREAKING NEWS AND NIGHT THIS TIME INVOLVING

38:01

A DEATH of a young man linked to the family

38:03

of convicted murderer Alec Murdoch, and

38:05

the reopening of an investigation initially

38:07

deemed a hit and run. Seen

38:10

as Randy k has been following this story for

38:12

years and has the latest, Randy here on

38:14

the phone with us, this just

38:16

happened. So what are you learning tonight? Well,

38:19

a source John familiar with this investigation

38:22

is telling me that SLED has no longer

38:24

considers this a hit and run accident.

38:26

As you know, 360 Smith was killed

38:29

back in July of two thousand fifteen.

38:31

He was his body was found in the middle of

38:33

a roadway in Hampton

38:35

County, South Carolina, and they had

38:38

said that this was a hit and run. Well, now

38:40

for the first time, SLED, the South Carolina

38:42

law enforcement division is saying they don't consider

38:45

this hit and run anymore. They are considering

38:47

this a homicide and investigating

38:49

this as a homicide. Now back

38:51

when this first happened, the lead investigator

38:55

Despite it being ruled a hit and run accident,

38:57

the lead investigator was heard during

39:00

some tapes from the case

39:01

files, some audio interviews, saying

39:04

that he didn't think that this was a hit and run.

39:06

Listen to that.

39:09

Typically, you don't see the highway patrol working

39:11

the murder, and that's what this is.

39:13

There's no doubt 360 not classifying

39:15

this as as anything other than a

39:17

murder.

39:19

And this is really important, John. Of course,

39:21

for Sandy Smith, Steven Smith's mom,

39:24

she has been saying for years

39:26

now, now almost eight years since her son died,

39:28

that she has always believed that

39:31

there was foul play here that somebody

39:33

killed her son and laid his body in

39:35

that roadway to make it look like a hit and run.

39:38

And so this is very important for her. This

39:40

is a 360, certainly significant

39:42

move in the case for her. And also, John,

39:44

it's important to note that there were no visible

39:47

injuries to him. He had a very significant wound

39:50

to his head. But other than that, if you're hit

39:52

by a vehicle at a fast speed, his

39:54

loosely tied shoes were still on him. didn't

39:57

have any broken bones. All

39:59

of this 360 leading his

40:01

mother and others to believe that there's

40:03

no way this could have been your

40:05

standard hit and

40:06

run, John. So 360, is it clear

40:08

what this new investigative avenue could

40:10

mean if anything? For the surviving

40:13

members of the Murdoch family?

40:15

It's unclear at this point. We know from the case

40:18

file that the Murdoch

40:20

name was mentioned over and

40:22

over again. We also know

40:24

that Buster Murdoch's name was mentioned in

40:26

the case file. He released a statement just yesterday

40:29

saying 360 wants nothing but

40:31

the best for the Smith family. And he is denied

40:33

having any involvement in the

40:35

death of 360 Smith, so it's important to note

40:37

that but it's unclear what it means for

40:39

the Murdoch family right now. The focus

40:42

is on 360 the Smith family.

40:44

They are planning to zoom. 360 Smith's body,

40:46

they're going work with South Carolina law

40:48

enforcement and see what more they can

40:50

find out about exactly what happened to

40:52

him. Howard Bauchner: 360, is it clear at all how

40:54

Buster's name was? Mentioned

40:58

in in in what way

41:00

there could be a connection at all to 360 Smith?

41:03

Well, according to Sandy Smith, Steven's

41:05

mom, 360 Smith and Buster

41:07

played baseball together. They attended school

41:09

together. But in terms of how it's

41:11

mentioned, I mean, I've listened to some of these audio interviews

41:14

in the case file, you

41:15

hear all, you know, you just hear people saying, well, I keep

41:17

I keep hearing buster's name thrown around. But

41:19

again, it's really important to

41:21

note here that that buster is denying

41:23

any involvement in this, having any knowledge

41:26

of this, and it could just be people

41:28

talking in those audio interviews with

41:30

those

41:30

investigators. Howard Bauchner: Right, Randy, hey, again,

41:32

we appreciate you. Getting to us so

41:34

quickly with this information. We'll let

41:36

you get back to work. Thank you. Coming

41:39

up the big names in music, design, and

41:41

television, whom president Biden on HERE TODAY

41:44

AT THE WHITE HOUSE. Reporter: BACK

41:46

TO OUR TOP STORY THIS EVENING, NO ONE CAN SAY FOR CERTAIN

41:48

WHETHER THE FUMMER PRESIDENT WILL FACE POLISHMENT

41:51

for any of the potential charges he faces,

41:53

be it in New York, Georgia, or on the

41:55

federal level. The same cannot be

41:57

said for many of the people who have worked for him

41:59

or been in his circle. 360 its Tom

42:01

Forman as the details.

42:05

The list of Trump allies tied to

42:07

crimes has been picking up new names for

42:09

years. Start with Steve

42:11

Bannon. I stand with Trump and

42:14

the constitution. Trump's firebrand

42:16

adviser was slapped with fine and four months

42:18

in prison for ignoring a congressional

42:21

subpoena about the attack on the capital.

42:23

Its time behind bars is on hold while

42:25

he appeals 360 also pleaded

42:27

not guilty to New York state charges

42:30

of money laundering conspiracy and

42:32

fraud. They will never shut me up

42:34

enough to kill me first. Alan Weiselberg,

42:37

Trump's longtime 360 financial officer,

42:39

is serving five months for tax

42:41

fraud and was ordered to pay two million

42:43

dollars in back taxes interest

42:46

in penalties. Paul Manafort,

42:48

once Trump's campaign chairman, from

42:51

day one, I always felt they were targeting me

42:53

and a couple of others to try and get

42:55

at the president or the

42:56

president, then the candidate Trump and then president

42:58

Trump. He's

42:59

agreed to pay more than three million dollars

43:02

to the government over his tax filings.

43:04

He spent two years in prison for bank

43:06

and tax fraud, illegal foreign

43:08

lobbying, and more before

43:10

Trump pardoned him. Rick Gates

43:13

pleaded guilty to aiding in a betting manafort

43:15

in concealing seventy five million dollars

43:17

in foreign bank

43:18

accounts. He spent forty five

43:20

days in jail and became a government

43:22

informant.

43:23

The next president of the United States

43:26

right here. Trump

43:28

pardoned Michael Flynn once his national

43:31

EARITY ADVISER WHO ADMITTED LYING TO THE

43:33

FBI ABOUT HIS CONTACT WITH

43:35

RUSSIA. THEN HE TRIED TO WALK THAT ADMISSION

43:37

BACK. FLIN'S NOW SOONING THE