0:00

Introducing ADT self-setup,

0:02

featuring everything from motion sensors to

0:05

Google nest cams. It can be easily

0:07

installed at your convenience and adapts as

0:09

your needs change. You can add more products

0:11

at any time and your system easily moves

0:13

wherever life takes you. Plus,

0:16

when every second counts, you can trust ADT's

0:18

24-7 professional monitoring. When

0:20

the most trusted name in home security adds the

0:23

intelligence of Google, you've got a home

0:25

with no worries. Go to ADT.com

0:27

today or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP.

0:30

Good

0:32

evening, tonight, newly released body camera video

0:34

from the police officers who confronted and killed

0:37

a mass shooter at the Covenant School in Nashville.

0:39

We're gonna show it to you, but first we wanna tell you

0:41

what we know about those who were murdered, about

0:44

their lives, not just how their lives ended.

0:46

Three adults and three children at the school were

0:48

killed yesterday. Mike Hill was

0:50

the school custodian. Students called him

0:52

Big Mike. He loved the kids at the school

0:55

and his job, He loved his own kids

0:57

so much. There were seven of them and

0:59

his 14 grandchildren as well. He

1:01

loved to spend time with them and to cook, his family

1:03

says. He was just 61 years old. Cynthia

1:07

Peake also was 61. She was a substitute

1:09

teacher at the school. Family friend tells local

1:11

station WSMV she lived most of her life

1:14

in Alabama, recently moved to Nashville

1:16

with her husband. She had three children

1:18

of her own. Katherine Coons was

1:20

head of the school. She was 60.

1:22

A former student with learning disability that

1:25

Ms. Coons never gave up on him, telling WSMV

1:28

that there are too many educators who do.

1:30

The world, he said, needs more people like

1:33

her. Hallie Scruggs'

1:35

dad was the pastor of Covenant Presbyterian Church,

1:37

which runs the school. Hallie was in the

1:39

third grade, just nine years old.

1:41

Evelyn Dickhouse's family said she was

1:44

a shining light. Our hearts are

1:46

completely broken. We cannot believe

1:48

this has happened, they said in a statement today.

1:50

Evelyn, too, was just nine.

1:52

We don't have photos of William Kinney, also

1:55

nine years old. a family friend said that he

1:57

loved his sisters, adored his parents and grandparents.

2:00

with unfailingly kind and gentle and

2:02

quick to laugh. Sweet Will, as

2:04

she called him, knew no strangers, she said.

2:07

But a stranger did come into his school yesterday

2:09

and killed Sweet Will and Evelyn and

2:11

Hallie, Mike, Cynthia and Catherine.

2:14

What we're about to show you was released by the police

2:16

today, and it shows you how the killer was stopped.

2:19

Videos from two officers, which we've synchronized

2:22

to the clock, so you can see from each viewpoint

2:24

what actually happened as it happened.

2:27

It's hard to watch, there's no doubt about it, but

2:29

you won't see any bloodshed, you won't see any actual violence.

2:32

You will hear gunfire, however.

2:34

It's a little more than three minutes, but it shows you

2:36

what police are up against. In a situation like

2:38

this, it shows you the reality of

2:40

what's happening far too often in this country.

2:43

The video starts with one officer's camera

2:45

and is later joined in sync with the second officer's.

2:49

So, just in that day, it's gonna be first floor main

2:52

lobby of what? I'm making entry on the front

2:54

side. Yeah, yeah. So we have to put it in here.

2:57

OK. John,

3:06

OK. They're all locked down, but

3:08

we have two kids that we don't know where they are. OK.

3:10

OK? Yes ma'am.

3:26

Yeah. Into my windows, they're

3:28

upstairs. Hey!

3:33

Gimme three! Let's get

3:36

three.

3:48

Let's go. I need three. One more!

3:52

One more! Let's

3:55

go! Metropolice!

4:02

Open door! On

4:05

me, on me! I don't know where he is!

4:08

Metropolice! Open door! Back

4:10

in the bathroom, small bathroom. There you go,

4:12

second floor! That's it. Let's

4:17

go! Let's go!

4:21

Let's go! Let's go! Let's

4:24

go! All

4:26

right, let's

4:29

go. All

4:33

right, let's go. Your door.

4:35

Where do they go in? With me. First

4:39

floor. First floor. Hold

4:41

there, y'all. Somebody

4:43

hold there. Get that door. Oh,

4:47

but I got it. I got it. Go,

4:52

go, go! Move!

5:01

Oh I'm

5:04

with you Take

5:08

this, take this. It's

5:10

locked. No,

5:14

it's locked. Take this, go. Take

5:19

this door, take it. Go,

5:23

go, go, go, go, go,

5:25

go. Go,

5:28

go, go, go. go.

5:40

It's up there. Keep

5:43

pushing. Go. Shots

5:49

fired shots fired. Mike distributions

5:57

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

6:03

Push the L.P.V.O. Push the

6:05

L.P.V.O. Don't write. We

6:09

love you. Some

6:17

professional perspective now from CNN, Senior

6:19

Law Enforcement Analyst and former FBI Deputy Director

6:21

Andrew McCabe. Andrew, it's really stunning

6:23

to see that you get, I mean, just the...

6:27

First of all, the coordination that they showed, and

6:30

when they heard shots

6:33

after trying to clear rooms,

6:36

the thing that stood out to me is there

6:38

was no pause from them of stopping

6:40

in the hallway seeking cover.

6:42

They in fact accelerated toward the gunfire.

6:47

Anderson, law enforcement in this country

6:49

takes a lot of criticism and we're

6:52

not perfect, we get some things wrong, but you

6:54

see the heart pounding intensity

6:58

of what those men, the

7:00

way they executed their responsibilities

7:02

and lived up to the oath that they swore under

7:05

unbelievable danger

7:07

and pressure. It's remarkable.

7:10

And yeah, what

7:12

you see there is a very highly

7:14

trained, well-coordinated response.

7:16

You see them shouting at each other and

7:18

touching each other on the shoulder and

7:21

they're not yelling for no reason. They're communicating

7:24

in an incredibly loud and chaotic

7:26

environment. You know, when you're the first person

7:28

in that, of that group of the few officers,

7:31

you cannot take your eyes off

7:33

of what you're looking at, looking for that threat.

7:35

So you can't turn around to see if your cover person

7:37

is still behind you or if you've left them. So

7:40

you wait for that tap on the shoulder. You wait

7:42

for them to say, move, move, forward,

7:44

push. And that's all

7:46

what you see happening there. They're clearing room after

7:48

room quickly. They're not slowing down. And

7:51

as soon as they hear those gunshots go, they

7:53

run to it. And that's what makes the difference

7:56

in limiting the loss of life. So.

8:00

Yeah, it's a remarkable video. It's hard

8:02

to watch. Hard to watch. Yeah, incredibly

8:04

disturbing. It's also interesting to

8:06

me that, you know, the officer whose body camera we

8:09

see first who arrives and immediately gets out of the vehicle,

8:11

gets his long gun,

8:14

hears a little bit from one

8:16

of the school administrators or a teacher about

8:18

the locations of things and what may be happening,

8:20

and then calls out, I need three,

8:23

I assume that means I need three other people with me

8:25

because it looked like there were at least two other police cars

8:27

there at the time.

8:29

I'm not sure how many officers had already been there, but

8:31

he's basically getting kind of a stack together,

8:33

getting a group together to actually

8:36

move in. That is standard procedure now.

8:39

That's exactly right. He gets out of his car, he

8:41

doesn't know how many people are in there or how many are not.

8:44

He just knows he's got a long gun, he's gotta

8:46

get in there. He heads for the door where

8:48

he sees another officer or somebody directing

8:50

him towards that door. And he just, you

8:52

know, you ideally, you wanna go in

8:54

as two, three, four people. And

8:57

so he calls out what he needs and

9:00

presumably he gets that support. If not,

9:03

he's going in anyway because he hears

9:05

that person from the school tell them that there

9:07

are shots being fired. So

9:10

it's a very quick rally

9:12

and they get inside and they find

9:14

the threat. There's no standing

9:17

around the hallway talking about it, asking for

9:19

extra equipment or more people. They

9:21

got to get the job done. Yeah, that was Officer Engelbert

9:23

who did all that, that

9:25

main body camera video we saw. It was also

9:27

interesting, the person from the

9:29

school said, you know, it's down

9:32

far at the end of the hall, there were shots,

9:36

there may be people there. And then she also

9:38

talked about people upstairs.

9:40

That message clearly got through again to

9:42

officers on the scene, because when the second body camera

9:45

comes in, it appears that that officer

9:47

and maybe other officers

9:49

are moving up to that second

9:51

floor location. Again, I'm surmising

9:53

here, but that's what it appears. I

9:55

assume that information from the

9:57

school administrator was...

9:59

which is, again,

10:01

something that in Yuvalde, communication

10:03

seemed to be a real issue.

10:05

That's absolutely right. You know, it

10:07

was remarkable to me that when

10:09

she first addresses him on the sidewalk there, his

10:12

response is, yes, ma'am. And he replies

10:15

in a very under-controlled, kind

10:17

of composed way, a courteous way. He

10:20

knows where he's going. He knows

10:22

what he's about to face. But this is somebody who's not

10:24

panicking. He is dedicated and focused

10:26

on what he has to do. She also gives him some very

10:28

important information information about where the children

10:30

are. She says most of the children have been

10:33

evacuated or are on lockdown and he

10:35

needs to

10:35

know that as he goes inside so he can

10:37

figure out which rooms need to be searched, where

10:40

kids need to be protected, and which ones he can potentially

10:43

go past or spend less time on. It's also

10:45

interesting because you know people never know,

10:47

I mean even officers who have been on the job

10:49

for a long time, very

10:51

often times an officer doesn't

10:53

take his gun out or or actually fire a shot

10:56

on the police force for years, if

10:59

at all in an actual environment

11:02

like this.

11:03

You never know how you're actually

11:05

going to respond, whether it's a combat zone

11:07

or for police, whether

11:10

you're going to become hyper-focused and laser-focused

11:13

and calm, or whether you're going to freak out.

11:16

Clearly, I mean, again, just from what he

11:18

said to the school administrator,

11:20

that officer seemed extraordinarily

11:23

focused on the task at hand?

11:25

He does, and you

11:27

know, I don't know what his personal experience has been.

11:29

Maybe he's been in situations like this or combat

11:31

before, but maybe it's just the result

11:34

of incredibly dedicated training.

11:36

You know, you don't know until you're in that

11:38

moment in a crisis situation, but the

11:40

best you can do is prepare and train

11:43

and train. You see when he reaches into the back of the

11:45

car, he knows exactly where he's going. The

11:47

gun is in the bag, it's ready. He doesn't

11:49

have to reassemble things or reload magazines.

11:52

that officer is prepared when he gets

11:54

on the scene.

11:55

And that shows you he's somebody who

11:57

is thought through what he's gonna need. he gets

11:59

in. before he gets in the car to leave on his shift.

12:02

He knows where his gear is in

12:04

the back. He knows how to get to it quickly. That's

12:06

how you save lives. Yeah, Andrew McCabe,

12:08

I appreciate it. Thank you. President Biden today renewed

12:10

his call for lawmakers to pass a ban on so-called

12:13

assault weapons just short of 19 years

12:15

since the 1994 version expired and wasn't

12:17

renewed. He also signaled how constrained

12:19

he says he is as chief executive to do more,

12:22

telling reporters, quote, I can't do anything except

12:24

plead with the Congress to act reasonably. As

12:26

for what Congress will do, so far Democrats have yet to

12:28

decide how to proceed

12:30

or if to proceed and fair to say many if

12:32

not most Republicans aren't willing to Proceed

12:34

at all in the house at least on any gun restrictions

12:37

There's

12:37

what some of them said or flat-out refused to say when

12:39

asked by reporters including our men are on a Raju

12:41

I appreciate it.

12:43

What happened in Nashville is obviously incredibly serious. Do

12:46

you not think it will require a response from the state

12:48

of the house? Do you

12:50

think there will

12:52

be any gun restrictions at all?

12:55

I think with respect to any

12:58

discussion of legislation, it's

13:00

premature. You seem to indicate there is nothing

13:03

more Congress can do in terms of... You

13:05

know, we want to legislate evil.

13:07

It's just not going to happen. We

13:10

need real revival in this country. Why does the

13:12

president have a Corvette in his garage that will do 115 miles

13:14

an hour, not 55? Because

13:17

it's freedom. I believe in the Second Amendment. And

13:21

we shouldn't

13:24

penalize law-abiding American

13:25

citizens. Before they even know the

13:27

facts, the first thing they talk about is taking

13:29

guns away from law-abiding citizens. People

13:31

are allowed to possess firearms. Need

13:34

is in the eye of the beholder. I

13:37

don't question why you need a blue suit, but you got one. But you got one

13:39

what should be done to protect

13:41

people like your little girlfriend being safe at school Well,

13:45

we homeschooled That

13:47

is Tennessee Congressman Tim Birgitte

13:49

who also said he does not see quote any real

13:52

role for Congress in the wake of yesterday's slaughter

13:54

This morning, Senate Chaplain Barry Black argued

13:57

there certainly is.

14:00

Lord, when babies

14:03

die at a church school,

14:07

it is time for us to move

14:10

beyond thoughts and

14:14

prayers. Remind

14:17

our lawmakers of

14:19

the words of the British statesman

14:23

Edmund Burke. All

14:26

that is necessary for

14:29

evil to triumph is

14:33

for good people to

14:36

do nothing.

14:39

And Chaplain Barry Black joins us now.

14:41

Chaplain, I appreciate you being with us. Is

14:45

evil triumphing? Are good men

14:47

doing nothing? Well,

14:50

I think indeed there

14:54

is a triumph of evil

14:56

when six people die

15:00

in such a horrific way. And And

15:03

of course, we've had to

15:05

face challenges

15:08

like this repeatedly. There

15:11

is almost a danger of desensitization.

15:15

I think that

15:17

there are

15:19

people who are doing something,

15:21

but that we can do more.

15:24

And I believe that

15:26

when you are faced with a challenge, you

15:29

have to expect setbacks and

15:32

failures, but you

15:35

persevere until you

15:37

find better ways of solving

15:40

the problem.

15:41

I remember when

15:44

I was very young, probably pre-teen,

15:49

JFK talked about putting a

15:51

a person on the moon and bringing

15:53

that person back

15:55

to

15:56

Earth by the end of the decade.

16:00

he must have inhaled something

16:02

to embrace that kind of optimistic

16:06

challenge. But with

16:12

setbacks and challenges, they

16:14

managed

16:16

to accomplish that goal time

16:18

and time again.

16:20

When Americans

16:21

have made

16:24

up their minds, we're going

16:26

to tackle this problem and solve

16:28

it, that

16:29

they have eventually done so.

16:32

And so that is what

16:34

I am challenging us to

16:36

do. One of the purposes of government

16:40

is to hold evil in check.

16:43

So the idea that there is nothing

16:45

that

16:46

government can do

16:48

is not true of the

16:50

facts of our history. In your

16:53

prayer, you also said, deliver

16:56

our senators from the paralysis of an analysis

16:59

that waits for the miraculous.

17:02

Talk about that a little bit. You also said it's

17:04

time to move beyond thoughts and prayers. What does that look

17:06

like moving beyond thoughts and prayers?

17:09

I think moving beyond

17:11

thoughts

17:13

and prayers,

17:15

it means doing

17:18

something. Praying is doing something,

17:20

but it is ethereal. The

17:23

first Psalm verse 3

17:26

talking about the happy

17:29

believer says, whatever

17:31

he or she does will

17:33

prosper. God

17:37

prospers what we do. And

17:40

so we have to begin

17:42

to try some things that

17:44

may be counterintuitive. intuitive. It

17:47

took Thomas Edison

17:49

thousands of attempts

17:51

before he found the filament for

17:53

the incandescent light bulb,

17:55

but he thought

17:57

that these were steps.

18:00

toward accomplishing that goal

18:02

and eventually he did. So

18:04

I am talking about developing a proclivity

18:08

for substantive action

18:11

and not just waiting

18:14

for something

18:16

beatific to occur because

18:20

of the movement of the transcendent.

18:22

Chaplain Black, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

18:26

Thank you. Coming

18:28

up next the AR-15 type rifle

18:30

that this killer and so many others have carried why

18:33

It's so deadly and what if anything might be

18:35

done to keep it out of the wrong hands Later

18:38

what a judge told former vice president Mike Pence

18:40

about what he'll have to tell grand jurors and why

18:42

his former boss Will

18:44

not be happy with that decision

18:49

This show is sponsored by better help the

18:51

ancient philosopher Aristotle once wrote

18:54

knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom

18:56

On your journey of self-discovery,

18:59

BetterHelp wants you to know they're here for

19:01

you. Just fill out a brief questionnaire

19:03

to get matched with a licensed therapist and

19:05

switch therapists anytime for no additional

19:07

charge. 100% online.

19:10

Discover your potential with BetterHelp. Visit

19:13

BetterHelp.com slash ac360

19:15

today to get 10% off your first

19:18

month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P

19:20

dot com slash ac360.

19:24

How long does it take to tackle a home

19:26

project? With Angie, you

19:28

could cross it off your list before this ad

19:30

is over. Just select the service

19:32

you need at an upfront price and Angie

19:34

handles the rest, sending a top pro

19:37

to get it done. You don't have to lift

19:39

a finger, except to tap the screen

19:41

or click the mouse. Plus, Angie

19:43

is free to use, so bring them your next

19:46

home project and they'll bring it home. Download

19:48

the app or go to Angie.com. It's

19:51

A-N-G-I dot com to get

19:54

started.

19:55

and

20:00

the Nashville mass killer was carrying one. Light,

20:02

easy to carry, easy to shoot, the AR-15 variants

20:05

of it are civilian versions of the US military's M16

20:07

series. And like the M16, they

20:09

fire relatively small caliber bullet at

20:11

very high velocity.

20:13

What that does to a human body used to be only

20:15

seen in wartime. We're now from CNN's

20:17

Josh Campbell.

20:21

They're known as assault style weapons. Their

20:23

deadly firepower seen yet again. When

20:26

a shooter opened fire on an elementary school

20:28

in Nashville, Tennessee.

20:29

It's just the latest. From Yuvaldi,

20:32

Tulsa, and El Paso, to Parkland,

20:34

San Bernardino, and Sandy Hook, the

20:37

high-powered assault rifle has been the weapon of

20:39

choice for many of the killers. Line is hot.

20:44

The Los Angeles Police Department demonstrates

20:47

an AR-style semi-automatic rifle for

20:49

us on the department's gun range. You have

20:51

a 16-inch to 20-inch barrel. You

20:53

have a stock that is shouldered. You

20:56

are gonna be accurate at farther distances

20:59

as opposed to a pistol. Not to mention, like

21:01

some other weapons, it can fire a bullet with

21:03

enough power to pierce soft body armor,

21:06

something Sergeant James Zabora Van knows firsthand.

21:09

Jesus, it's definitely an automatic

21:11

weapon. He took assault weapons fire

21:13

during the now infamous 1997

21:14

North Hollywood shootout, where

21:17

two bank robbers wearing body armor fired

21:19

on police for nearly an hour,

21:21

injuring eight people and 12 officers, including

21:24

Sergeant Zabora Van. You're being hit

21:26

with pieces of the vehicles were

21:28

hiding behind asphalt, radiator

21:31

fluid, felt like we're being stunned by bees.

21:33

That shooting changed policy, prompting

21:35

the LAPD and other departments to upgrade

21:38

their own weaponry to counter the increasingly

21:40

powerful guns used by assailants. That

21:43

fire power from weapons is studied inside

21:45

a ballistics lab at Wayne State University

21:48

where researchers simulate a bullet's impact

21:50

on the human body.

21:51

It's a block of 20% gelatin

21:54

and it's meant to the human tissues. So

21:56

soft tissues. Watch as Cynthia Burz team

21:58

fires a Second, elves have a the

22:02

For this particular round you'll see the bullet coming in on this

22:04

side. You see this temporary cavity here

22:06

happening. So that expansion

22:09

is what happens in the body and then it collapses

22:11

down. So that's where your damage comes

22:13

in. Now

22:13

watch as the team fires a round from

22:15

an assault rifle. We see a lot more

22:17

disruption. This round actually breaks

22:19

apart. It doesn't exit so it's about

22:22

3,000 feet per second and all

22:24

of that energy goes into the soft tissue. We have a piece

22:27

of plastic here of plastic here to reflect to do

22:29

the videos and it actually lifted

22:31

the plastic up off the table with the energy.

22:33

An aftermath photo of the handgun round

22:36

shows a relatively straight line through the

22:38

tissue exiting the other side.

22:40

But not so with the round from an AR-15. It

22:43

basically goes into the body and creates an explosion

22:46

inside the body. Trauma surgeons say

22:48

the wound from an assault rifle can be catastrophic.

22:51

And the worst part is in a child, all the

22:53

vital organs are that much closer together. So

22:55

each of those bullets causes, you

22:58

know,

22:58

irreversible damage. In Yovoldi,

23:00

Texas, families were asked for DNA swabs

23:03

to help the authorities identify their children.

23:05

As a mom, it really affects me, right?

23:08

Because I cannot imagine having

23:11

a child endure this. And

23:14

with high-capacity magazines, suspects

23:16

can shoot for much longer. Now the discussion

23:19

about high-capacity magazines largely centers

23:21

on reducing the amount of of time that a suspect

23:24

can fire without having to reload. As

23:26

a former FBI agent, we were trained to quickly

23:28

get your weapon reloaded and back up on target.

23:31

But for a suspect, for example, who isn't trained,

23:33

you can see using this training weapon, that is

23:35

a process. It involves removing the

23:37

empty magazine, obtaining a fresh

23:40

round of ammunition, loading it into the

23:42

weapon, charging the weapon, getting it

23:44

back up on target. Those are all precious

23:46

seconds where victims can be fleeing. The

23:48

gun can jam or the suspect could be

23:50

engaged law enforcement or bystanders.

23:54

Regardless

24:01

of where one comes down on the gun control debate,

24:03

it's indisputable that the assault weapon

24:06

causes significant damage inside the body.

24:08

Definitely. But this is the reality.

24:11

This is what's happening. Josh Campbell,

24:13

CNN, Los Angeles.

24:16

This is What is Happening Time and Time Again, joining

24:18

us to CNN's senior political commentators,

24:20

former Illinois Republican Congressman Adam Kinziger and

24:23

David Axelrod, former senior advisor to President Obama.

24:26

David, I mean, I don't know how many times you and I have

24:28

had this discussion. Is there any chance

24:31

of anything actually getting done in Congress?

24:33

You know, I'm eager to hear from Adam on this, but I'm

24:36

very, very doubtful. You know, last

24:38

year we passed a relatively

24:41

modest gun control

24:43

or gun safety law out of the United

24:46

States Congress after Yuvaldi.

24:49

And still

24:52

Republicans in the House, led by Kevin McCarthy,

24:56

moved against it. There were 14

24:58

Republicans who were willing to stand up. Adam Kinzinger

25:01

was one of them. But now

25:03

Kevin McCarthy is the Speaker of the House. And

25:06

I see no evidence in his reaction to

25:08

this latest tragedy that he has

25:10

changed his view on this issue at all.

25:12

Congressman, as David said, you were one of 14 House Republicans

25:15

who voted for the new gun safety legislation

25:17

last June. You're also a member of the military, supporter of

25:19

the Second Amendment.

25:21

I mean, AR-15s aren't going away,

25:23

it seems. Senator Murphy last night mentioned

25:26

the idea of, you know, maybe someday mandating

25:28

training before somebody could get one.

25:30

Is anything possible to move on this?

25:33

Yeah, I mean, I think David's right, probably

25:36

not right now. And I can tell you the inside

25:38

of what a conference, the Republican conference

25:40

is like right now, because I sat

25:43

through that for 12 years, which is every time there's

25:45

a mass shooting, you basically are sitting around

25:47

and you can't wait till the next story overtakes

25:50

this one. And that's why you're gonna

25:52

stay quiet, you're not getting comments from these members.

25:54

Look, I think what we have to do is, you know, there

25:57

are folks that probably very rightfully their

25:59

mind advocate.

26:00

for a complete ban of ARs, and

26:02

there are some that won't even address the issue. There is

26:04

middle ground here. Look, this is

26:06

an exception, but a lot of these school shootings

26:08

that happen, or mass shootings, are people under

26:11

the age of 21. You have to be 21

26:13

in America to buy a handgun. In many

26:16

states, you only have to be 18 to buy

26:18

an AR. Well, that's one thing. And why

26:20

is it that you have to be licensed to drive

26:22

a car in this country, in every state?

26:25

But yet there are states now that are moving to say You

26:28

don't even have to have a license to conceal carry.

26:30

I can seal carry. I have a license to conceal

26:33

carry. And why don't we say that with

26:35

ARs, at least in the near term, maybe

26:37

you have to have a license to have one of those too. Look,

26:39

if you are somebody that's sitting around saying,

26:41

look, you know, I'm not going to go do a mass

26:43

shooting with my AR, which is 99.99 repeating percent of

26:47

those gun owners,

26:48

then I don't think you'd be upset about going and getting

26:51

a license to own one. These are intermediary

26:53

steps, but everybody, particularly

26:55

my party right now, the Republicans, are too scared

26:58

to talk about this. They couldn't even raise the age

27:00

to 21. It does seem also, you know,

27:02

Congressman, if you're, you know, at

27:05

a gun range, you want people who are also at

27:07

a gun range who have training, who know what they're

27:09

doing, and are not going to shoot somebody,

27:11

you know, taking their

27:14

AR out of the case it's in.

27:17

Yeah, there's multiple points to this. So, number

27:19

one, one of the better things about getting licensed

27:21

to conceal carry is you learn the

27:23

laws in the state. For instance, Illinois

27:26

has a much different standard for when you

27:28

can shoot somebody in your home than,

27:30

say, Texas does, right? So you

27:32

get to learn that stuff. The other thing is, people

27:35

assume, I think, a lot that a

27:38

police officer with a handgun against

27:40

an assailant with an AR is an even match.

27:43

It is the furthest thing from an even match. I've

27:45

shot ARs. I've shot them both in the military

27:47

and in the civilian sector. They are much more

27:49

accurate. They have much better

27:52

ability to hit somebody at a distance than

27:54

a pistol does. So this idea

27:56

that it's the same thing, it's not. Recognize

27:58

that. And that's why I think as a country...

28:00

And a step is to say maybe you have

28:02

to go through some training to understand what these things can

28:04

really do David I mean there is a line

28:07

for Democrats of thinking well, this

28:09

doesn't necessarily drive people to the polls It's

28:11

not the top issue that people say they vote on

28:14

or hasn't been traditionally

28:17

And there's concern about driving

28:19

voters I guess to Republicans

28:22

among some Democrats. Yeah, I mean,

28:24

I think that's been true Historically,

28:26

it may still be true today I

28:28

think if there were a chance to pass some

28:31

really significant legislation that you'd see

28:33

the vast majority of Democrats do

28:35

it, but I think that there is a reluctance to

28:37

push it if at the end

28:39

of the day there are those who are gonna have To walk

28:42

the plank as it were to vote

28:44

for something that has an uncertain future

28:47

so You know, I

28:49

mean, I don't I think people should stand up on

28:51

this issue and I appreciate everything that Adam

28:55

is saying, I still don't understand exactly

28:57

why weapons that he uses in war

28:59

are ones that people

29:01

should casually have on

29:04

their own. And they

29:06

have increased exponentially since

29:09

the ban on assault weapons went out in 2004.

29:11

So the point where we have 20 million

29:14

of them or so, or 20 million people own

29:16

them.

29:17

And, you know, even

29:20

if we passed a law, it'd be very hard at

29:22

this point to enforce it. Yeah, David Axelrod,

29:25

Adam Kinziger. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Coming up the latest

29:27

on whether

29:28

that Manhattan grand jury investigating the former president will

29:30

make a decision this week. Plus a judge

29:32

telling former vice president Mike Pence, he has

29:34

to testify about his private conversations

29:36

with then president Trump

29:38

in the weeks and days leading up to January 6. Pence

29:40

has just spoken out about it. What he said next

29:42

sources tell CNN that the Manhattan

29:44

grand jury investigating the former president's role

29:47

in an alleged hush money scheme involving an adult film

29:49

star will not hear the case again this week. Source

29:51

also tells CNN the grand jury adjourned Monday without

29:53

taking a vote on whether to indict. So that means no

29:56

answer this week on whether there there will be an indictment

29:58

or not. in a separate investigation

30:00

with potentially more serious consequences

30:02

for the former president. Multiple sources tell CNN

30:04

the special counsel leading the federal probe

30:06

into his actions surrounding January 6th scored

30:09

a big legal victory involving testimony from Mike

30:11

Pence, who tells Newsmax he is now evaluating

30:14

the court's decision that he has to testify.

30:16

Our senior justice correspondent, Emprez, joins us.

30:18

So does CNN legal, so does CNN legal

30:21

analyst, Elliot Williams, a former federal prosecutor and a deputy

30:23

assistant attorney general. So Evan, talk more about

30:25

what this judge is, what he ruled, and

30:27

if he's given former vice president, Eni Leeway.

30:30

Well, Anderson, the important thing from this judge

30:33

is that he's basically saying that

30:35

there's plenty that Mike Pence

30:37

can talk about with prosecutors

30:39

as part of this investigation, the January 6th investigation.

30:43

Judge James Boseberg said that while

30:46

Mike Pence does have the

30:49

protection of the speech and debate clause

30:52

under the Constitution, as the

30:54

Senate president, he was serving as a Senate

30:56

president during part of this, he

30:59

does have to answer questions, however, for

31:02

everything leading up to January 6th when

31:04

he wasn't acting in that capacity.

31:07

So that means that there's a lot of questions that

31:10

the former vice president is going to be facing

31:12

when he goes before the grand jury. Now it

31:15

is important to note that there are limitations

31:18

that the Justice Department is going to have to observe. It

31:21

is not clear though Anderson, when

31:23

the former vice president goes before the

31:26

grand jury, where that line will

31:28

be. It may be that the judge will have to say, that

31:30

question is allowed, that question is not allowed.

31:33

Keep in mind, he was at the center of all

31:35

of this, right? He was the one that was facing

31:37

the pressure campaign by the former president and

31:40

his allies that he had the power,

31:42

they said, to not certify

31:45

the election of Joe Biden

31:47

as president. And so those are the

31:49

questions that really, I think

31:51

the prosecutors want to get at. Elliot, do you

31:54

know where that line is? Because that's confusing

31:56

then. I mean, if he does have to

31:58

testify about conversation.

32:00

he had with the former president, but maybe

32:02

there are some things he doesn't have to say. Do you know

32:04

where that one is? No, Anderson, there's a lot

32:06

of gray area here between Mike

32:09

Pence, the vice president of the United States,

32:11

who was also sort of Mike Pence, the candidate

32:13

for office, and Mike Pence, the guy whose boss

32:16

might be investigated by the Justice Department. Where do

32:19

you slice up where those different roles

32:21

lie and excise and take

32:23

out Mike Pence, the congressional

32:26

officer who was presiding over the

32:28

Senate. Now, anything he did in his capacity

32:31

as the person overseeing the Senate, as

32:33

president of the Senate, as the Constitution, well, that's

32:36

all protected. But where does everything else go? And

32:38

look, looking, I mean, we haven't seen this opinion

32:40

yet. It's all under seal. But there's something

32:42

for everybody to appeal in this. If Mike

32:44

Pence wished to appeal the fact that he

32:46

has to testify at all, he would have

32:48

a perfect basis for doing so. And the Justice

32:51

Department could actually say, you know, Your Honor, this

32:53

is actually quite vague. And

32:56

because Because of all the gray areas and sort of trying

32:58

to determine where exactly

33:00

or how much wiggle room the

33:02

former vice president has is actually quite

33:04

difficult and we really need clarity on this.

33:06

And, Elliott, do we know what specific information

33:08

about January 6th that investigators would like

33:11

to get out of the former vice president? Sure.

33:13

If the ruling stands up and he ends up complying? Absolutely.

33:16

And it's important, Anderson, to get out of the frame of

33:18

Mike Pence and Donald Trump were bickering and are mad at each

33:20

other, sort of the palace intrigue stuff. And where is there

33:23

legally operative information that could come from Mike Pence?

33:25

Number one, what evidence or information

33:27

did he hear about the president knowing

33:29

he was going to obstruct the actions of

33:31

Congress,

33:32

which is itself a federal offense? Was

33:34

the president — did the president make any threats to Mike

33:36

Pence? Was he aware of violence on

33:38

the day of January 6th? Was he aware

33:41

of any other crimes

33:43

that may have transpired? Those are all legally

33:46

relevant questions to charges that could

33:48

either come to the president or other people around

33:50

him. So yes, it's

33:53

interesting as a human matter, but

33:55

there's actually some law there, and Mike Pence is a

33:57

very central figure who might have heard important information.

34:00

Kevin, is it clear what phase this

34:02

investigation, the January 6th investigation is in at

34:04

this point?

34:05

Well, look, I mean, I think we often use the word accelerating,

34:07

but really, Anderson, I mean, we're getting the picture,

34:09

certainly with all of the legal activity you're

34:11

seeing. The prosecutors are giving

34:14

deadlines, very tight deadlines for

34:16

people to come in to the grand jury. People

34:18

who are asking for more time, they

34:20

don't get it. They're also going to the

34:22

appeals court in very accelerated

34:25

timelines. So it gives you the impression that

34:27

prosecutors certainly want to try to get everybody in

34:30

and then be able to make a decision

34:32

as to who they're going to charge or if they're going to charge

34:35

anyone. Now, we don't know who those

34:37

people will be. There could be some of the allies

34:40

of the former president, people who were very involved

34:42

in trying to overturn the election

34:44

results, right, and then push this whole idea of

34:46

fraud, could be the former president himself.

34:49

And so that is, right

34:51

now, what we know is, certainly

34:53

I think the political calendar is also playing

34:55

into this. I'm impressed, appreciate

34:57

it, Elliott Williams as well. quick programming

34:59

note in about 20 minutes, CNN prime time presents

35:01

inside the Trump investigations an hour

35:03

long in-depth look with CNN anchor

35:05

and chief investigative correspondent, Pamela Brown. At

35:08

the multiple investigations facing the former president,

35:10

she'll have new reporting on former vice president Pence's

35:12

mindset after the judge's ruling today, whether

35:15

he'll testify, that's at 9 p.m. Eastern tonight.

35:17

Coming up for us, we're gonna dive into the details of how separate

35:20

allegations made by two women about affairs

35:22

with the former president in the years before his election

35:25

turned

35:25

into a present day criminal investigation.

35:30

How long does it take to tackle a home

35:32

project? With Angie, you

35:34

could cross it off your list before this ad

35:36

is over.

35:37

Just select the service you need at an upfront

35:39

price and Angie handles the rest,

35:42

sending a top pro to get it done.

35:44

You don't have to lift a finger, except

35:46

to tap the screen or click the mouse. Plus,

35:49

Angie is free to use, so bring them

35:51

your next home project and they'll bring it

35:53

home. Download the app or go

35:56

to angie.com. That's A-N-G-I

35:59

dot com.

36:00

get started.

36:30

you get 30 days of event video history

36:32

and even smarter notifications, like when a

36:34

familiar or unfamiliar face is seen.

36:37

Plus, when every second counts, you can trust

36:39

ADT's 24-7 professional monitoring. You

36:42

can view video of an alarm event and

36:44

verify or cancel an alarm with

36:47

just a tap. When the most trusted name

36:49

in home security adds the intelligence of Google,

36:51

you've got a home with no worries. Go to ADT.com

36:54

today or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP. Google,

36:59

Nest Cam, Nest Doorbell, and Nest Aware

37:01

are trademarks of Google LLC.

37:04

As we mentioned earlier, we learned today

37:06

that the Manhattan grand jury investigating the former president

37:08

will not hear from any more witnesses this week.

37:11

Though yesterday, they heard from David Pecker, once a confidant

37:13

at Donald Trump. He was the former head of the company that

37:15

publishes the National Enquirer, and he's central

37:18

to the alleged hush money scheme under investigation. It's

37:20

a story I've covered on this broadcast, and on 60 Minutes

37:23

for some time now, and how Now it works

37:25

and the purpose of the alleged payoffs may determine

37:27

the severity of any charges the former president now

37:29

faces.

37:30

Randy Kay explains. And

37:33

you had sex with him? Yes.

37:36

You were 27, he was 60. Were

37:38

you physically attracted to him? No.

37:41

Porn star Stormy Daniels opening up to Anderson

37:43

Cooper about her alleged affair with Donald Trump.

37:46

She says she first met Trump at a celebrity golf tournament

37:48

in Lake Tahoe in July 2006. A

37:51

year later, she says they met at his bungalow

37:53

at the Beverly Hills Hotel. He came and sat next

37:56

to me and touched

37:58

my hair and put his hand on my leg.

38:00

Nearly a decade later during the 2016 campaign,

38:04

Stormy Daniels was shopping her story about

38:06

the alleged affair and says she got a

38:08

phone call from her lawyer saying, I

38:10

think I have the best deal for you. That

38:13

deal was essentially a non-disclosure

38:15

agreement, or NDA, a promise

38:17

to keep silent.

38:18

It came about after Daniels had approached

38:21

the National Enquirer with her story. At

38:23

the time, longtime Trump ally David

38:25

Pecker was running American Media

38:28

Inc., or AMI, which published

38:30

the National Enquirer.

38:31

The Enquirer forged an alliance

38:33

with Donald Trump. They would go out and

38:36

seek unflattering and usually tawdry

38:38

stories about Donald Trump,

38:40

and they would pay money

38:42

for the rights to those stories, which

38:45

entailed essentially muzzling the people

38:47

in possession of those stories. AMI's

38:49

Pekker helped broker the $130,000 hush money payment to Daniels.

38:54

Was it hush money to stay silent? Yes.

38:57

Pekker and one of his editors contacted

38:59

Trump's longtime lawyer Michael Cohen, who

39:01

then reached out to Daniels and offered

39:04

the $130,000 payment to make her story go away.

39:08

When Daniels threatened to take her story elsewhere,

39:11

court filings say Pekker called Cohen

39:13

on an encrypted phone app and said

39:15

the deal needed to be completed,

39:17

or it could look awfully bad for everyone.

39:21

Trump has denied the affair and any fault

39:23

with the payment.

39:24

Still, in the end, Daniels took

39:26

the deal. She signed the agreement 11 days

39:29

before Election Day in 2016. Playboy

39:33

model Karen McDougall says she too

39:35

was essentially muzzled by Pekka and AMI

39:38

after trying to sell her story about an alleged

39:40

affair with Trump. I met Donald when

39:42

they were filming the celebrity apprentice at

39:44

the Playboy mansion. She says she met Trump

39:46

in 2006, and their affair

39:49

lasted about 10 months.

39:51

Were you in love with him? I was, yeah. And

39:54

do you think he was in love with you? He was, yeah.

39:57

McDougall told Anderson she and her attorney

39:59

met with a...

40:00

AMI. You told them your story.

40:02

I told them the story. She says AMI

40:04

was only interested in buying her story

40:06

after Trump won the Republican nomination.

40:09

The side deal was, oh,

40:10

we're squashing the story. You think it's because of

40:12

a personal relationship with

40:14

the guy who runs AMI as

40:17

friends with Donald Trump? Correct. Federal

40:19

prosecutors cut a non-prosecution agreement

40:22

with American media back in 2018, ruling

40:25

out charges for the publisher.

40:27

As part of that agreement, AMI admitted

40:29

to paying Kerry McDougal $150,000 to prevent her

40:33

claims of an affair from being made

40:35

public.

40:38

And Anderson, in that interview with you,

40:41

you probably recall Kerry McDougal went into quite a

40:43

bit of detail about what was offered

40:45

as part of that catch and kill scheme, not only

40:47

the $150,000 to silence

40:49

her, but she also said that she had been promised

40:52

that She would be on magazine covers,

40:54

that she would be able to write columns

40:56

for their Health and Fitness magazine, which was

40:58

certainly a passion of hers, I should say.

41:03

And none of that ever really panned out for her,

41:05

but they were successful, of course, in

41:07

sinking her story before

41:08

Election Day, Anderson. Yeah, and that's

41:11

who testified on Monday, David Hecker,

41:13

Randy Kay. Thanks so much. Coming up, you'll notice

41:15

some names, including Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson,

41:17

the Dominion Voting System wants testimony

41:20

from, and it's $1.6 billion defamation

41:22

lawsuit against Fox News. Who

41:24

else they want on the stand?

41:26

Next. Tonight, we're learning about who might be called

41:28

to testify in Dominion Voting System's $1.6 billion

41:30

defamation case against Fox News over the 2020

41:32

election. Both sides have some

41:34

similar names and ones you'll recognize. Senior

41:37

media reporter, Aldrich Darcy, joins us with details.

41:39

So what happened in court today? Well, this trial

41:41

is shaping up to be quite a high

41:43

profile case if it does actually move forward

41:45

a trial. They're learning some of the names that Dominion

41:48

and Fox hope to call to the stand. On

41:50

Dominion's front, they're hoping to call Fox

41:53

News CEO Suzanne Scott to the stand,

41:55

Fox News

41:56

president Jay Wallace and then notable

41:58

host people like Sean Hannity. Tucker

42:00

Carlson, Maria Bartiromo, Brett Baer,

42:02

people that are recognized by viewers.

42:05

So very high profile case if this

42:07

does move forward at trial. And how are the, how's

42:09

the judge been responding to the arguments

42:11

being made? It's safe to say he's not impressed with

42:14

Fox's arguments in court. A couple

42:16

times today he really scoffed at Fox's lawyers.

42:19

In one time they were talking about the objections

42:21

to the exhibits that Dominion wants to admit in a

42:24

trial and the judge- They're making sort of blanket objections

42:26

to all the exhibits. To everything. And the judge

42:28

said this to Fox. He says,

42:30

if I think you're going to be, to interrupt

42:32

testimony out of gamesmanship, you may

42:34

have a problem. Be careful people, keep

42:37

your powder dry on this stuff. This isn't

42:39

a game, this is a trial, and you're going to

42:41

be presenting to a jury.

42:43

And at another point in time, they were talking about Murdoch

42:45

and whether he can come to testify in

42:48

the case. And the judge told Fox's

42:50

lawyers this. He says, Mr. Murdoch

42:52

has claimed that he's traveling and that it

42:54

is an inconvenience. But

42:56

I also have people telling me that he's hardly

42:59

infirm and is able to travel around. I

43:01

think he recently got engaged on St. Patrick's

43:03

Day, and he said he looks forward to traveling between

43:05

his various residences in Montana,

43:07

New York, and London. And of course, we just

43:10

saw him at the Super Bowl with Elon Musk just

43:12

a few weeks ago. So I think the trial's scheduled for April

43:14

15th. Is it clear if it's actually gonna get to

43:16

trial? I mean, there could be a settlement, perhaps.

43:18

There could always be a settlement right before the clock

43:20

strikes midnight, but it looks like all

43:23

things are pointing to a trial happening in

43:25

just a few weeks, Anderson.

43:26

If there is no settlement,

43:29

the jury selection will begin on April

43:32

13th, and then this would go to trial

43:34

April 17th again, you'd see some really

43:36

big names appearing.