0:00

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0:02

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0:32

evening, we have two big stories breaking tonight.

0:34

New word, the debt ceiling talks may be, may

0:37

be yielding progress. We're gonna talk to Senator Bernie

0:39

Sanders shortly, but we begin tonight

0:41

with new reporting that paints a remarkable picture of

0:43

just how much evidence federal investigators may have

0:46

to show the former president obstructed justice in

0:48

the Mar-a-Lago documents case. It comes

0:50

tonight from the Washington Post and the headline is

0:53

stunning. Trump workers moved Mar-a-Lago

0:55

boxes the day before FBI

0:57

came for documents. New details,

0:59

including alleged dress rehearsal for moving

1:01

sensitive papers show a focus on

1:03

Donald Trump's instructions and intent.

1:06

Now in a moment, we'll talk to legal analyst, Ellie Honig,

1:08

who joins us, but first post political

1:11

investigations and enterprise reporter, Josh Dorsey,

1:14

who shares a byline on the breaking story.

1:18

Josh, can you just lay out the sequence of events

1:20

at Mar-a-Lago based on your reporting? Sure,

1:22

so in May of 2022, federal

1:26

prosecutors subpoena former president Trump

1:29

for all classified documents and he still has an

1:31

obsession. After that period

1:33

of time, some of the boxes that

1:35

are in the storage room are moved into

1:38

other parts of Mar-a-Lago. One day

1:40

before federal prosecutors come

1:43

to pick up the subpoenaed material,

1:46

on June 3rd, the boxes

1:48

are moved back into a storage room. On

1:52

June 3rd, prosecutors are

1:54

taken to the storage room and said, this is where all the

1:56

classified documents are held.

1:59

through the boxes, but this is where

2:02

they're all held, and Trump's aides

2:04

sign an attestation that say, everything

2:07

that is classified, we've been given back. Obviously,

2:10

we know now that not to be true. There

2:12

were more than 100 classified documents. They were

2:14

all over parts of the residents. So what's interesting

2:17

of prosecutors is why

2:19

would the boxes moved in and out of a storage

2:22

room in that period of time, and

2:24

why would they move back one day before federal

2:27

authorities came to search

2:29

the

2:29

area? And you're reporting the prosecutors,

2:32

and I'm quoting from the reporting, gathered

2:34

evidence indicating that Trump at times kept

2:36

classified documents in his

2:39

office in a place where they were visible and sometimes

2:41

showed them to others, which

2:44

is, I mean, it's remarkable reporting.

2:47

How key to the special counsel's investigation could that

2:49

be?

2:51

Well, it's certainly important enough to them that

2:53

they've asked multiple witnesses this question

2:55

in grand jury interviews and interviews with the FBI,

2:58

and they've learned from multiple people that he did do this.

3:01

What his team had maintained, Anderson,

3:03

was that it was a haphazard packing

3:06

and storing process. The boxes

3:08

were put in the storage room. All

3:11

of this was kind of much ado about nothing.

3:13

And what witnesses have said is that's

3:15

not true. There were certain documents that

3:18

he had a particular affinity

3:20

for, that he

3:21

would show visitors when they came, but he would keep in

3:23

his office. I mean, is the implication

3:26

of what you are reporting that Trump employees

3:28

moved the boxes out of storage, they knew

3:30

they were under going to be picked up or

3:33

under subpoena, they were moved out, that Trump

3:35

looked at them to see what he wanted to maybe

3:37

keep,

3:38

and then they returned them right before the FBI came

3:40

in? So that's what we're

3:42

trying to figure out, Anderson, is exactly

3:44

what happened in that time period. These

3:47

boxes were moved. They

3:49

came back the night before. And obviously,

3:51

as you know, now, there were documents

3:54

found in many other places of Mar-a-Lago, the residence,

3:56

you know, his office, the

3:59

pine room off the residence.

3:59

and we've been trying

4:02

to figure out what exactly happened. What

4:04

we were told happened was that Evan Corcoran, the lawyer

4:06

for former President Trump, did

4:08

a thorough search of the boxes in the storage

4:11

room. But what seems to have happened now is that

4:13

the boxes left the storage room for some period

4:15

of time and came back

4:18

literally hours before the federal

4:20

authorities showed up to pick up the documents. You're

4:23

also writing that Trump in his days allegedly

4:26

carried out a dress rehearsal, what

4:29

some have called for

4:29

moving sensitive papers. What does that

4:32

mean, a dress rehearsal? And where does that term come

4:34

from? So

4:36

this whole saga dates back to 2021,

4:39

when former President Trump leaves office and

4:42

the National Archives says they're aware he took

4:44

things improperly and they want them back.

4:47

And if you remember in that period, former President Trump

4:49

was resistant to giving these back. He said

4:51

these documents are mine. He told

4:53

a lot of aides not to give them back. And eventually

4:55

the National Archives said, we're

4:58

going to involve the Department of Justice in Congress and then

5:00

he gives back those 15 boxes in

5:02

February of 2022. In that

5:04

period, what we're told is that a lot

5:07

of his actions on how not to

5:09

give all of the material back and

5:11

what to do were analogous to what he did

5:14

when DOJ then asked for the boxes. And

5:16

Judge Beryl Howe of

5:18

the DC appeals court wrote

5:21

in a 86 page opinion

5:23

that what happened with

5:25

NARA and why

5:27

he did not give those back, the boxes back to NARA

5:29

and what he did during that period was

5:32

a seeming dress rehearsal for what he did when DOJ

5:34

asked for the documents.

5:36

So is it clear to you how many of these Trump

5:38

employees allegedly involved with moving the boxes

5:40

have been interviewed by the special counsels team?

5:44

And who's paying their legal bills?

5:47

We know both of the Trump employees have been interviewed by the special counsels

5:49

team. And

5:53

we know that the former president's office and

5:55

former president's PAC, Save America, has paid

5:57

at least some of the legal bills for both of these boxes.

6:00

people. One of them, as we've

6:02

reported, was Walt Nauta, who's

6:04

a former president's valet. You see him

6:06

on the plane with him at these rallies. He's carrying

6:08

boxes. He's his personal aide. The

6:10

second one, whose identity

6:12

is not known, is

6:15

a person who worked for the former president

6:17

in Florida.

6:18

Josh Dalsey, appreciate it. Thank you. Thank

6:21

you. CNN senior legal analyst and former

6:23

federal prosecutor, Elie Honig, is here. I mean, none of

6:25

this obviously is good news for the former president. A

6:28

lot of these details are new as well. Yeah,

6:30

a lot of it's really interesting. The key thing that prosecutors

6:32

have to prove here is knowledge and intent with

6:34

respect to the documents. First of all, did Donald Trump know

6:37

that he had those documents? There is no question

6:39

whatsoever now that he knew about those documents.

6:41

The reporting was that he went through them himself. He

6:43

showed them to people. There's always been a question about

6:45

intent. What was he going to do with these documents?

6:48

He wasn't posting them online. He

6:50

wasn't, as far as we know, selling them to anyone.

6:52

But the reporting detail that he was showing them

6:54

to other people at least tells us

6:56

that he was giving this information out

6:58

to some selected people for some selected

7:00

reasons. And I'd want to dig in on that. Which I mean,

7:03

there is a crime of mishandling classified

7:05

documents, showing them to people, random

7:08

people in your office. That seems to be mishandling,

7:10

no? Yeah. So it's important to understand there's sort of two

7:13

buckets of crimes here. There are several statutes

7:15

that cover mishandling, destroying,

7:17

stealing classified or sensitive documents.

7:20

And if you take them knowing that you shouldn't, and I think

7:22

that's what the sort of dress rehearsal that Josh

7:24

just talked about went

7:25

to, the fact that he knew he shouldn't have

7:28

these, then that could satisfy those crimes separately.

7:31

There's obstruction. And that I think gets to the

7:33

point that Josh Dossie was just talking about, of

7:35

moving documents into and out of storage

7:38

areas the day before and shortly

7:40

after the DOJ team, not the search

7:42

warrant, but the DOJ team of lawyers came to

7:44

get the subpoena response. And that can tell you something

7:46

about, are they trying to play keep away

7:48

with these documents? So it was also reporting just the other day about

7:50

the special counsel looking

7:53

at the

7:53

Trump organization and any business dealings

7:56

they had from 2017 on with foreign government.

7:59

or foreign actors. And

8:03

one supposition would be possibly,

8:05

was there any correlation between classified documents

8:08

that he wanted to have and any business dealings?

8:10

Yeah, logically, that one really jumped off the page

8:13

to me. There's only two things that that could be. What

8:15

you said, Anderson, which is, is there some

8:17

link between these classified documents and any foreign

8:19

dealings, foreign business, foreign nationals, foreign

8:21

countries? Or it could be, and there's

8:23

not really anything beyond this, but it could be that

8:25

they've expanded the scope of their investigation

8:28

or getting into some of the financial dealings but

8:30

we've not seen any other facts to indicate that.

8:32

The timeline though of where this special counsel

8:34

investigation is going,

8:35

I mean, there's been reporting about the grand jury, hasn't

8:38

met for a while, there was a flurry of activity.

8:40

Now there's not, what does it tell you? It definitely feels

8:42

like end game for me. And the fact that Donald

8:45

Trump's team has asked for this meeting with the attorney general

8:47

is a fairly common move that happens, not

8:50

necessarily the very, very last thing, but you wouldn't

8:52

do that in the middle of a case. And as prosecutors,

8:54

you normally want to keep the defense sort of at

8:56

least loosely updated on where you are. And

8:59

usually that kind of meeting, which happens where

9:01

defense lawyers come in and make a pitch and say, hey, here's why

9:03

you should not charge our client. That's something that logically

9:05

and normally would happen towards the very end of a case.

9:08

All right, Elihony, appreciate it. Also today, tough

9:10

sentencing in connection with January 6th, 18

9:12

years for Stewart Rhodes, leader and co-founder of

9:14

the so-called Oath Keepers, 12 years

9:17

for Kelly

9:17

Meggs, head of the group's Florida chapter.

9:20

Both men were convicted of seditious conspiracy.

9:22

The judge in the case telling Rhodes, quote, you pose

9:24

an ongoing threat and peril to our democracy

9:26

in the fabric of this country. Earlier

9:29

today, newly declared presidential candidate Ron DeSantis

9:31

weighed in, not on these two specifically,

9:34

but on the criminal justice system that convicted them and

9:36

his power if elected to grant pardons.

9:39

Appearing on a conservative talk show, he was asked, quote,

9:41

do you think the January 6th defendants deserve to

9:43

have their cases examined by a Republican president?

9:46

Here's some of what he had to

9:47

say. The DOJ

9:50

and FBI have been weaponized on day one.

9:52

I will have folks that will get together

9:54

and look at all these cases who

9:57

people are victims of weaponization or

9:59

political targeting and we will be aggressive

10:02

at issuing pardons.

10:03

He said he would do it on a case-by-case basis

10:05

but did not rule out pardoning anyone, including the former

10:08

president. His remarks obviously follow these

10:10

last night on FBI director Chris Ray.

10:13

Trump appointee should be noted.

10:16

I would not keep Chris Ray as director of the FBI.

10:19

There'd be a new one on day one. I think the

10:21

DOJ and FBI have lost their

10:23

way. I think that they've been weaponized

10:25

against Americans who think like me

10:27

and you. I think that they've become

10:29

very partisan.

10:31

We should point out, despite this being a very popular

10:33

talking point on the right, there's no evidence the FBI

10:36

or Justice Department has been weaponized against

10:38

conservatives or that any of the January 6 related

10:40

cases so far have been wrongly brought.

10:43

Joining us now, Anthony Scaramucci, who served as White House communications

10:46

director in the previous administration. Anthony, I mean,

10:48

no one should be surprised, but it sure says

10:50

a lot about the Republican Party that the two leading candidates

10:52

right now

10:53

are going after the most important and legitimate

10:55

institutions of law and order in this country. I

11:00

mean, just harken back 30 years

11:02

ago where the Republican Party was the law

11:05

and order party, but I think this is

11:07

all virtue signaling to their

11:10

side. And so this is a little bit ironic in Governor

11:13

DeSantis because he doesn't like the whole culture.

11:16

He wants to rebuke the left for doing

11:18

the same thing that he's doing on the right. And

11:21

so a more sensible strategy, a more presidential

11:23

look would be that I respect the rule

11:25

of law. I will meet with everybody and

11:28

evaluate the personnel that I'm bringing

11:30

into the White House and the personnel that I'm

11:32

keeping. And typically we keep the FBI

11:36

director. And so Chris Ray shouldn't be let

11:38

go. And if he talked like

11:40

that,

11:40

though, he probably wouldn't get anywhere close

11:42

to the Republican nomination, Anderson.

11:45

And so that's the big problem right now. Who

11:47

is going to step up in the chasm and

11:50

actually speak like a president, think

11:52

like a president, unite the country,

11:55

bring our values back together

11:58

and talk to people in a common sense.

11:59

way instead of listening to political

12:02

consultants tell them, well, you got to get

12:04

further to the right to Donald Trump, because if he falls

12:06

out of the race, you're going to be the guy that

12:09

takes over and you've got to get his base.

12:11

And so I'm hoping for

12:13

a more transformative candidate than that

12:16

instead of the stuff that we're getting

12:18

right now. But I mean, you know, again, as we

12:20

all and we've talked about this endlessly, but, you know, in a primary

12:23

with a lot of with a lot of candidates, if

12:26

Trump has 30 percent, that is presidential

12:28

behavior now. I mean, this

12:29

is what Dezantis is doing is essentially President

12:32

Trump's playbook.

12:34

Yeah. So I obviously disagree

12:36

with that. As an entrepreneur, we

12:38

need an entrepreneurial candidate that

12:40

would actually build the base of the Republican

12:42

Party. Think about what Barack Obama did

12:45

in 2008. He went up against Hillary Clinton

12:47

and the Democratic establishment

12:49

and he built a new market for

12:51

himself. And so what I would like

12:53

to see is a Republican Party candidate

12:57

reject those values and go

12:59

into the marketplace and find the voters. You

13:01

and I both know there's one hundred and forty four million people

13:03

that do not vote that are registered to

13:05

vote. And with the right messaging,

13:08

you could bring a lot of young people into

13:10

that campaign. I did like what Governor

13:13

DeSantis said about Bitcoin the other night on Twitter

13:15

spaces. There's

13:17

stuff that he's doing that makes sense.

13:19

But this hard right move to win

13:22

the primary is very old school

13:24

stuff. And we don't need that right

13:26

now in the country. We need a unifying

13:28

figure and somebody that can build the

13:30

demography of the Republican Party,

13:33

not go to that hard right tack. What did

13:35

you think of his doing that on on Twitter spaces?

13:37

I mean, obviously there were the glitches, which obviously

13:41

was disastrous for him. But there are

13:44

a lot of folks talking about how

13:46

he wasn't talking about working Americans.

13:48

He was hobnobbing with Elon Musk

13:50

and some tech billionaire,

13:53

I guess, or multimillionaire.

13:56

I liked it. I think the fact

13:58

that we were all talking about it.

13:59

I mean, I'm sure he wasn't happy with the glitches.

14:02

People seem to be focused on that. But

14:04

it's an interesting medium and it's an interesting use

14:07

case. And I think he's opened up the platform

14:10

for other people to do that. I think one

14:12

of the things that I think Mr. Musk wants to have happen

14:14

is to create a purple platform. But

14:17

unfortunately, in our society right now, we're

14:19

sort of either red or blue. And so

14:21

now that Governor DeSantis has done that, I think it's

14:23

going to be hard for the Democrats to want to

14:26

take that lane. I hope they consider

14:28

that because I do take

14:29

Elon Musk at his word that

14:32

he's trying to broaden out that platform

14:35

and make that platform a platform for free speech.

14:38

But I did like it. And if those numbers are correct,

14:40

that he got six and a half million impressions,

14:43

then it by and large worked. And the fact that you and I

14:45

are talking about it right now is probably another

14:47

sign of it. In just the last 24 hours since

14:49

announcing, DeSantis has taken on the former president

14:52

in a more direct way. Something he's been obviously reluctant

14:54

to do up until now. I just want to play something he said today

14:57

in a radio interview.

14:59

I don't know what happened to Donald Trump. This is a different

15:01

guy today than when he was running

15:04

in 2015 and 2016. And I think the direction that he's

15:08

going with his campaign is the wrong direction.

15:11

It's an interesting argument. He's not really criticizing

15:14

what he did before. He's just saying, oh, he's changed.

15:18

Well, we'll have to see when he gets

15:21

hit with the contact. It's like Mike Tyson

15:23

says everybody has a plan until they're punched

15:25

in the face. And so we'll have to see the

15:27

counter punching Donald Trump with those

15:30

maneuvers. Again, I think Mr. DeSantis

15:32

would be better served just explaining, listen,

15:34

I was a good governor. I have a really good track

15:36

record. The country needs to

15:39

heal. We need to have an American renewal.

15:41

And let me tell you what my plans are

15:43

that represent that, as opposed

15:45

to trying to do this micro

15:48

verbal surgery, splitting

15:50

participles and whatnot, to try to get the Trump's

15:52

base without overly

15:54

alienating Trump. Let me just give the governor

15:57

a news flash. You've already overly

15:59

alienated Donald Trump.

15:59

Trump by entering the race. So

16:02

anything you do now in terms of subtlety

16:04

is not going to be noticed by the former president.

16:06

Anthony Scaramucci, appreciate it. Thank you.

16:08

Coming up next, Senator Bernie Sanders on tonight's

16:11

breaking news on debt ceiling talks. Reportedly now

16:13

closing in on an 11th hour compromise.

16:15

We'll talk to Senator Sanders live.

16:21

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17:55

There is breaking news just

17:57

in on talks to head off a government default. The

17:59

New York Times.

17:59

is reporting that White House officials and Republican

18:02

lawmakers are closing in on a deal. It would

18:04

raise the debt limit for two years, cap federal

18:06

spending on everything but the military and veterans.

18:09

In broad terms, according to The Times, the emerging compromise

18:11

would let Republicans point to spending reductions

18:14

and Democrats to say they had spared most

18:16

domestic programs from significant cuts. Joining

18:19

us now, Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who chairs

18:21

the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions

18:23

Committee and is a member of the Budget Committee. Senator

18:25

Sanders, I appreciate you being with us. A, have

18:27

you heard anything about tonight about a

18:29

deal along those lines and if

18:32

so, how does it sound to you? Well,

18:34

it's only what I read in the New York Times.

18:36

It may be right, it may be wrong. But

18:39

Anderson, I want to say this. The idea

18:41

that the Republicans are holding hostage

18:44

the entire world economy unless they get

18:46

what they want has been an outrageous

18:49

display of extremist politics

18:51

and really is unacceptable.

18:53

And the second point that we have to appreciate is

18:55

that right now in America, you've got a middle

18:58

class, which is shrinking. You got 60% of our

19:00

people living paycheck to paycheck, childcare

19:03

system and disarray, healthcare system

19:05

collapsing, housing all over the country.

19:07

People can't afford housing. You

19:10

don't cut programs that

19:12

working people desperately need.

19:14

What you do do and what has to be done

19:17

is the man that the wealthiest people in this country

19:19

who are doing phenomenally well, start paying

19:21

their fair share of taxes.

19:23

You have to demand that corporate interest

19:26

for receiving record breaking profits,

19:28

start paying their fair share of taxes. You

19:31

have to start cutting military spending

19:33

when we are spending more than the next 10 nations

19:35

combined mess cost overruns in

19:37

the military. There are ways that

19:40

you can cut government spending without

19:42

doing it on the backs of some of the most vulnerable

19:45

people in this country. A lot of those things

19:47

though, in particular military spending, as you know, Republicans

19:49

have drawn a line on that.

19:52

Where

19:54

is the negotiation from if

19:56

you were running these negotiations? What

19:58

is the give? It's

20:01

not good enough for them to say, oh,

20:03

we get huge campaign contributions

20:05

from billionaires. We don't want to tax them. Oh,

20:08

we love the military industrial complex.

20:11

We don't want to cut military spending off the table.

20:13

Well, it's not off the table. What should be

20:15

off the table are children in

20:17

America where we have the highest rate of childhood poverty

20:20

of almost any major country. That should be

20:22

off the table. The needs of elderly

20:24

people who are struggling to pay for their prescription

20:26

drugs, that should be off the table. You know what

20:28

we could do? If we paid the same prices

20:31

for prescription drugs as they do in Europe,

20:34

that's what Medicare paid. We would save

20:36

a trillion dollars over 10 year period. Do

20:39

the Republicans have the guts to take on the pharmaceutical

20:42

industry? I don't think so. So it's not

20:44

what they want. It's what the American people want.

20:46

And I think what I'm talking about is precisely

20:48

what ordinary Americans want. You've called

20:51

for President Biden to invoke the 14th Amendment, which

20:53

as you know, says, quote, the validity of the public

20:55

debt of the United States shall not be questioned.

20:58

How would that play out in practical terms? Why

21:01

do you think that is the way to go?

21:03

Well, I think if the Republicans are

21:05

prepared to hold the

21:07

entire world economy hostage

21:09

and say, hey, Mr. President, you got no alternative,

21:12

but to make massive cuts in programs,

21:14

the vulnerable, they'd be up no alternative. Well, the president

21:17

does have an alternative. As you've indicated,

21:19

the 14th Amendment is pretty clear.

21:21

The validity of paying off our national

21:23

debt is not questioned. That's the 14th Amendment.

21:26

I think he should invoke it. What

21:28

that would mean in practical terms, I believe, it's

21:31

never been done before, is that we would

21:33

continue to pay our bills.

21:35

I suspect it would be challenged in the courts

21:37

very, very quickly. I think the courts

21:39

do not want to see the world economy

21:42

crumble, and I think it would be sustained.

21:44

Does the, you

21:47

know, there are Democrats who believe

21:49

that invoking that essentially is sort of absolving

21:52

Congress of what their responsibilities

21:54

are and that it should remain in Congress.

21:56

What about that argument?

21:59

here to tell you that I think the 14th Amendment

22:02

is a wonderful solution. It's about

22:04

all that we have left.

22:06

It is a better solution than the Republican

22:08

approach which says, and

22:10

their original proposal was a 10-year

22:12

program proposal,

22:15

which would have made massive cuts for

22:18

the elderly, the children, the sick, and the poor. If

22:20

that's the alternative, the 14th Amendment looks

22:22

pretty good. But I'm not here to tell you that that's

22:24

a great option.

22:26

The option is that you do

22:28

what we've always done throughout history

22:31

is you raise the debt ceiling. You

22:33

do not default. You don't threaten to default.

22:36

And then you have an argument about the budget. That's

22:38

what you do in a democratic society, not

22:40

hold

22:41

the world economy hostage, which is what the

22:43

Republicans are doing. What is extraordinary

22:45

about the way the Republicans are doing is it is in such

22:47

stark contrast to how they behaved

22:50

under the former president

22:52

in terms of the debt ceiling.

22:54

Absolutely. They raised the debt ceiling, if I recall

22:57

correctly, three times under Trump.

22:59

And by the way,

23:00

we raised

23:03

our national debt by something like $8 trillion

23:05

over that period.

23:06

But it's not just Trump. We have done

23:09

it with Republicans. We've done it

23:11

with Democrats. That is what you do. And

23:13

let us be clear, everybody should know this.

23:16

This is not a budget issue. We're not arguing

23:18

here what we should be spending next year.

23:20

It is simply paying the bills

23:23

that Republicans voted for last

23:26

year and previous years. We're paying off

23:28

our debt.

23:29

And when you're the largest economy in

23:32

the world, that is what you do. If

23:35

you make a deal now, Democrats

23:37

could revisit

23:39

your budget priorities if and when

23:41

they win back control of the House, or I guess from the Republican

23:43

perspective, if and when they win back the

23:45

White House.

23:47

Would that be a better path

23:49

than default?

23:52

Well, default is a terrible

23:55

path. It will cause global

23:57

anarchy. But

24:00

the alternatives are also very,

24:03

very bad. Again,

24:06

what I think is you have

24:08

a normal budget process. Republicans want

24:10

to cut. I want to make investments

24:12

in our children in healthcare and education. Let's

24:15

argue it out.

24:16

But the other thing, Anderson,

24:18

that worries me very much is

24:21

Republicans get away with holding

24:23

the economy in

24:24

hostage. This sets a precedent

24:27

for

24:27

years to come. You talk about in the future,

24:29

then the normal budget process that

24:32

we go through, we have committees, we argue and

24:34

all that stuff, it's gone. And people

24:36

say, okay, hey, budget ceiling is coming.

24:38

We're going to go through this again. That is a pretty

24:41

bad way to develop budgets.

24:43

Senator Bernie Sanders, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

24:46

Thank you. Ukraine next, a naval

24:48

drone attack on a Russian ship in the Black Sea. What

24:51

happened in the other developments in the war when 360 continues.

24:54

Tonight there's video of what Russia is

24:56

calling an unsuccessful drone attack on one

24:59

of its spy ships in the Black Sea. But

25:01

as you can see, it looks like one of the three unmanned

25:03

boats targeting the ship did manage

25:05

to at least get through. This of course follows

25:07

the recent aerial drone attack on the Kremlin and

25:10

they certainly aren't the only such incidents demonstrating

25:12

Russia's vulnerability. Throughout the war, we've

25:14

seen Ukraine sink Russia's Black Sea flagship

25:17

blow up a piece of a strategic bridge. And

25:19

this week we saw fighters from two anti-Putin

25:21

groups launch a cross-border raid into Russia.

25:24

Shin and

25:24

Sam Kiley talked to some of the members of

25:26

that group. A

25:30

propaganda coup. Russian dissident

25:32

soldiers back from a raid inside

25:34

Russia parading a captured Russian

25:37

vehicle for the world. What do you

25:39

hope will be the effect of this raid?

25:42

Effect of this raid was amazing. It

25:45

was a shell, information

25:47

bomb, blowing

25:51

about today's whole

25:53

internet, blowing up, boiling.

25:57

These men are all Russian nationals and...

26:00

part of Ukraine's security forces,

26:02

and they carry Ukrainian military IDs.

26:05

This incursion into Russian territory, which these guys

26:08

say is ongoing, was as much a propaganda

26:10

mission as it was a military mission.

26:13

But they say it was also done independently

26:15

of the Ukrainian military.

26:17

That is a claim we have to take

26:20

with a big pinch of salt. They

26:23

jointly raided Russian territory this week

26:26

and flooded the Internet with images of their

26:28

work.

26:29

Russia claims to have driven them out. Still,

26:32

the raid has rattled Moscow. Do

26:34

you think this is part of the coming summer offensive,

26:36

an attempt to keep the Russians off balance,

26:39

keep them guessing? I think it's

26:41

kind of, yes,

26:44

it's kind of it. American-made

26:48

vehicles appear to have been used in the cross-border

26:50

operation in Belgorod Province.

26:53

It's unclear if they were US donations.

26:56

The vehicles that you took included

26:59

some of the American MRAPs, is that right?

27:01

That you were using? We

27:03

used handy also. We

27:05

buy them in

27:08

international shops, war shops. So

27:11

you bought these vehicles on the open market? Yeah,

27:14

of course. Everyone who

27:16

had some money can do it. Ukraine's

27:19

government, which has received US vehicles

27:21

and lethal hardware, says that these

27:24

men operated inside Russia privately.

27:27

But a security source said here that

27:29

Kiev had advanced knowledge of the raid,

27:32

and Caesar admitted Ukraine helped out with

27:34

supplies. Small arms, artillery

27:38

weapon, heavy vehicles,

27:41

everything that we need.

27:43

So this was a raid that the government can deny

27:46

but still enjoy the results. Divisions

27:49

in the ranks of their enemies. Mersenary

27:51

leader Yevgeny Prigozin immediately

27:53

reacting with fury.

27:59

We managed to get our hands on the far right

28:02

leader of the Russian volunteer. He

28:11

even warned that Moscow could face a revolution.

28:14

The operation is ongoing.

28:18

This is how I should put it,

28:20

to be honest. It

28:22

definitely has various phases. So

28:26

phase one, we consider it a successful phase.

28:29

It's over now, but the operation

28:31

is ongoing. That's what I can say for now.

28:35

It's fascinating, Sam Kiley joins us now. Sam, it's really fascinating

28:38

to hear from them. I mean, they sound

28:40

very confident. They also sound like, at

28:43

least they want people to believe, there will be more attacks

28:45

from these kind of groups on Russian soil.

28:47

How likely is that?

28:52

I think it's pretty likely, Anderson, in

28:54

that they are relatively small

28:57

in number, numbering in the hundreds

28:59

rather than thousands, these

29:01

Russian citizens. But they are also

29:03

trying to hook up with partisan

29:06

groups deeper into the country,

29:08

try and inspire other people into

29:11

acts of sabotage,

29:14

ultimately. And then at the same time,

29:16

the Ukrainians are prosecuting these

29:19

sorts of attacks behind the Russian lines

29:21

here inside Ukrainian territory,

29:24

either with special forces or now with

29:26

the longer range weaponry that they've been

29:28

getting, particularly from NATO partners, the United

29:30

Kingdom recently supplying the Storm Shadow

29:33

cruise missile that may have been behind

29:36

a recent explosion in a

29:38

Russian occupied town, more than 100 kilometers, some 80

29:40

miles or so

29:43

behind the front lines, Anderson. Sam

29:46

Kiley in Ukraine, thanks for that report.

29:48

Joining us now is seen in military analyst and retired

29:50

Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. General Hertling,

29:52

I mean, in terms of Ukraine's fight against Russia, are

29:55

these cross-border raiders effective,

29:57

either strategically or psychologically?

29:59

in any way? In all

30:02

those ways, Anderson, whenever you're conducting

30:04

raids or feints or demonstrations,

30:06

it causes the enemy to take a look at

30:08

what they're doing, where they're defending. What

30:11

you're talking about along the border between

30:13

Ukraine and Russia on the eastern

30:16

part of the country is close

30:18

to probably a thousand kilometers, 600, 700 miles.

30:22

The Russians cannot defend across

30:25

that entire length and breadth. So

30:27

anytime you have a raid like this that gets

30:29

in very quickly, causes a little

30:32

bit of disruption and some chaos, and

30:34

then moves out very quickly, you see

30:36

the enemy reacting to that just like the Russians

30:38

did. The Russians claim they killed 70

30:40

of these raiders. It's

30:44

just not true. You can tell by talking

30:46

to that commander just now that he didn't

30:48

lose a whole lot of people. In fact, he

30:50

said he lost one soldier and two were wounded,

30:53

but it caused a lot of disruption on the Russian

30:55

side. What do you think of where the war

30:58

is right now for Ukraine? I

31:00

think Ukraine is continuing to conduct

31:03

shaping operations, and these kinds

31:05

of raids and demonstrations and feints

31:07

are a part of that. You see continued

31:10

strikes by the Ukraine against key

31:12

elements of the Russian military. You

31:14

see not only these raids that are taking place

31:17

that they can basically say,

31:19

hey, we don't know who did that, but we know

31:21

it's helpful, all the way to the

31:23

bombing or the destruction of

31:25

artillery depots and ammo

31:28

dumps in places like Beridansk, which happened

31:30

today. You see, like you showed earlier,

31:33

the unmanned surface vessel

31:35

going after against the Russian ship. It's

31:38

just a thousand knife cuts

31:40

against Russia, and it's all part

31:42

of shaping operations for the Ukrainians

31:45

to determine where the weak spots

31:47

are in the lines, where they can attack,

31:50

and how the Russian forces are

31:52

moving their elements around to address

31:55

different threats coming from unexpected directions.

31:58

You said shaping operations, so it's sort of

31:59

probes in a way?

32:02

It is probes, its intelligence gathering,

32:05

its preparation of the battlefield by

32:07

different attacks, using artillery

32:09

to strike command post, ammo dumps,

32:12

railroad crossings, places that

32:14

disrupt the enemy activity and

32:16

cause the enemy commander to take

32:18

a different approach or to move forces

32:21

or to defend things that he didn't want

32:23

to defend in the past or continue

32:25

to guess at where the Ukrainians might

32:27

come to next. And it takes active

32:30

Russian forces away from the defensive

32:32

lines that they've been building for the last

32:34

five months and puts them in other places

32:36

like border posts so that the Ukrainians

32:39

will see this movement and use that

32:41

to their advantage to attack in places where

32:43

the Russians hate. Just quickly, Pragodia,

32:46

the head of the Wagner group, said that in an interview that 20,000

32:49

Wagner troops had died in the attempt

32:52

to take over Bakhmoud, do

32:54

you think that's an accurate number?

32:55

And if so, what does that say about the fight? Yeah,

32:58

I believe that's a lowball number from all

33:01

of the US open source intelligence. That's

33:03

significantly less than they lost

33:06

there by count. But it's also

33:08

Pragodia continuing

33:10

to insult the Minister of Defense,

33:12

Shoygu, and the Chief

33:15

General, Gerasimov. So

33:17

when they fail, if there's any failure,

33:19

he can say, hey, see that? I was the guy

33:21

that was attacking and having great

33:24

success. You pulled me offline.

33:25

You took away my Wagner group.

33:28

And now you all have to suffer the consequences

33:30

of failure. So he's insulting. And

33:32

he's also prepping a future battlefield

33:35

from a political standpoint to gain

33:37

more power inside of the Kremlin. Yeah,

33:39

General Hirtling, I appreciate it always. Thank you. Just

33:42

had a shocking new development of the disappearance and

33:44

murder of Gabri Petito at the hands of her

33:46

fiancé, Brian Laundrie, on a cross-country

33:49

trip two years ago. It turns out Laundrie's mom

33:51

gave him a letter, gave her son a letter

33:54

before Petito's death that included the words,

33:56

burn after reading. I'll tell you what's

33:58

in the letter and what Laundrie's parents

33:59

have to say about it next.

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35:44

Tonight, there are a lot of questions about an undated letter

35:46

given to Brian Laundrie from his mom. You

35:48

may remember Gabby Petito. Her remains

35:51

were found in Wyoming in 2021 after

35:53

she and Laundrie set off on a cross country

35:55

trip. Laundrie returned from the trip

35:58

without Gabby Petito. disappeared

36:00

weeks later. According to the FBI,

36:02

before Laundrie took his own life, he wrote in a

36:04

notebook that he was responsible for her

36:06

death. Now CNN has obtained

36:09

a copy of the letter, Mark Byrne, after

36:11

reading more from CNN's Gene Kazaris.

36:15

As we all know, the letter references burying

36:17

a body, bringing a shovel and burying a body, baking

36:20

a cake and putting a shiv in it.

36:21

Gabby Petito's family and Brian

36:23

Laundrie's family battle it out in

36:25

a Florida courtroom over a letter

36:28

written by Roberta Laundrie to her son.

36:31

Investigators found the undated letter in Brian's

36:33

backpack close to his remains

36:35

when they were discovered on October 20, 2021 at

36:39

Florida's Carlton Reserve.

36:41

You are my boy. Nothing

36:43

can make me stop loving you. Nothing

36:45

will or could ever divide

36:48

us. No matter what we do or

36:50

where we go or what we say, we will

36:52

always love each other. If

36:54

you're in jail, I

36:56

will bake a cake with a file in it.

36:58

If you need to dispose of a body, I

37:01

will show up with a shovel and garbage

37:03

bags.

37:04

The Petito say the letter is evidence

37:07

the Laundrie's already knew Gabby

37:09

was dead when Brian returned home alone

37:11

in the fall of 2021. The

37:14

Laundrie say the letter was written well before

37:17

Gabby went missing.

37:18

She wrote the letter because she and Brian

37:20

were experiencing a difficult period

37:22

in their relationship and he was about

37:24

to leave home. He was about to go on this long trip

37:27

with Gabby and she was hoping

37:29

to repair their relationship before he

37:31

left. The Petito say the Laundrie

37:33

should be found liable for intentional

37:36

infliction of emotional distress because

37:38

the Laundrie's refused to talk with them or

37:40

give them any answers.

37:42

The Laundrie's argue they had no

37:45

duty to respond to them.

37:47

Weeks after Gabby was reported missing

37:49

following a highly publicized nationwide

37:52

search, the 22 year old's remains

37:54

were found in Wyoming.

37:56

A coroner ruled her cause of death

37:58

to be strangulation. and the

38:01

manner of death, homicide.

38:03

Brian disappeared during the search for Gabby.

38:06

His body was discovered soon after hers.

38:09

A notebook found near his remains revealed

38:11

he claimed responsibility for

38:14

Gabby's death, according to

38:16

the FBI.

38:17

A medical examiner ruled he died

38:20

by suicide. It only permits discovery

38:22

regarding matters that are relevant. Laundrie's

38:25

family attorney argued the letter should

38:27

not be interpreted literally, pointing

38:30

to other parts of the letter. If

38:32

you fly to the moon, I will be

38:34

watching the skies for your reentry.

38:36

If you say you hate my guts,

38:39

I'll get new guts.

38:41

In her affidavit, Roberta Laundrie

38:43

referenced two children's books that she

38:46

says the letter was based on. The

38:48

Petito family attorney rejected

38:50

that

38:51

premise. There's nothing about burying a

38:53

body or bringing a shovel or putting

38:55

something in a cake if somebody goes to prison. Although

38:58

Mama Bear did say she would bake Little

39:00

Bear a cake on his birthday.

39:02

And written on the front of the envelope,

39:05

burn after reading.

39:08

Jean Cazares is with me now. Will the jury get

39:10

to see that letter if it goes

39:12

to- Here's where we are yesterday. The judge made

39:14

a big ruling that the Petito family

39:17

and their attorney could actually have the letter

39:20

because the Laundries did not want the letter

39:22

to get into their hands at all. So

39:24

now they have the letter as part of discovery.

39:26

I am sure the Laundries will bring in a motion

39:30

so that the jury cannot see it. It

39:32

cannot become evidence in the trial. But

39:35

the Petitos know this is

39:37

their

39:38

circumstantial way to show

39:40

that the Laundries knew that

39:42

their son had committed murder and

39:45

they weren't giving the Petitos any

39:48

answers at all. The judge said, I

39:50

think it's relevant. So we'll see what the judge

39:52

does. But in Florida,

39:54

if you want to prove intentional infliction, emotional

39:57

distress, I mean, there's a number of elements, but the main

39:59

one is-

40:00

It's outrageous and it's a legal standard.

40:02

And you know how case law interprets that? If

40:05

you show a situation and

40:07

a citizen, average citizen says, that's

40:09

outrageous,

40:11

that is beyond the norms of decency.

40:14

Gene Kuzars, we appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up,

40:16

more on the newest presidential candidate, Ron DeSantis,

40:18

we'll look at what role his closest confidant,

40:21

according to many, his wife, may have in the race

40:23

next. Returning to Florida,

40:25

Governor Ron DeSantis and his bid for the White House,

40:27

his wife, Casey, is often described as his

40:29

most trusted advisor. As First Lady of Florida,

40:31

she's been by his side helping with media strategy

40:34

and is particularly interested in issues surrounding

40:36

mental health, substance abuse, and fighting cancer.

40:38

She's herself a survivor of breast

40:41

cancer. It's expected she'll play a key

40:43

role in the 2024 race. Randy

40:45

Kay has more.

40:48

Hello everyone and welcome to First Coast Living. I'm Casey

40:50

DeSantis. Long before she became the First

40:52

Lady of Florida, Casey DeSantis was a

40:54

fixture in many Floridians' homes. She

40:56

was an anchor and reporter for two Jacksonville,

40:59

Florida TV stations,

41:00

but she left it all behind to raise her children

41:03

and support her husband's run for Governor

41:05

of Florida. I was gonna take

41:07

a break from the show. I was gonna be able to spend time with

41:09

my family. Casey DeSantis was born

41:12

Jill Casey Black in Ohio.

41:14

According to media reports, her father was

41:16

an optometrist and her mother worked as

41:18

a speech pathologist at Casey's elementary

41:21

school.

41:21

Casey is a golf enthusiast and equestrian

41:24

who graduated with an economics degree from

41:26

the College of Charleston in South Carolina.

41:29

She first met Ron DeSantis in 2006

41:32

on a Florida golf range. So I kept

41:35

looking over my shoulder because I wanted the

41:37

bucket of balls that somebody had left. Ron's

41:39

over there and so he thinks I'm looking at him.

41:41

Was there an attraction at all to him? Yeah, of course he

41:43

was cute. In his new book, Ron

41:45

DeSantis referred to that chance meeting

41:48

as his life's most fortuitous moment.

41:50

Three years later, the couple married at the

41:52

Walt Disney World Resort. In 2010,

41:55

according to her LinkedIn profile, Casey

41:58

worked as a host for the Golf Channel. A

42:00

couple years later, Ron DeSantis was elected

42:03

to Florida's sixth congressional district. Ever

42:05

since, Casey has become known as her husband's

42:08

closest confidant. She leans on

42:10

her TV experience, often advising

42:12

him on media strategy and campaign ads,

42:15

including this memorable one from 2018.

42:18

Build the wall. He's teaching

42:21

Madison to talk. Make America

42:23

great again. In a recent Tampa

42:25

Bay Times article, Representative Jared

42:28

Moskowitz, a Democrat who once served in

42:30

the DeSantis administration,

42:31

referred to Casey as a powerful force.

42:34

A former spokesman for the governor also

42:36

told the paper, the sounding board starts

42:39

and stops with Casey.

42:41

Casey DeSantis has a knack for humanizing

42:44

her husband. You want to know who Ron DeSantis

42:46

really is. She recorded this campaign

42:49

ad for him last year, focusing

42:51

on how he helped her after her 2021 diagnosis

42:54

with breast cancer. She's now cancer

42:56

free.

42:57

He was there to fight for me when I

42:59

didn't have the strength to fight for

43:01

myself. When she isn't busy

43:03

with their three young children, Casey DeSantis

43:06

can be found at her husband's side on the campaign

43:08

trail.

43:09

This is her with him in Iowa.

43:11

He's a good dad. He's a good person.

43:14

He's in it for the right reasons. He's

43:16

fighting for our children just

43:18

as much as he's fighting for your families.

43:21

On the campaign trail, the governor often shines

43:23

a spotlight on his wife, just as

43:25

he did during his victory speech on election

43:28

night last year.

43:29

And most important of all, thank

43:32

you

43:33

to the greatest

43:35

first lady in all 50 states. Randy

43:38

Kay.