0:00

Namaste Jehind, you are watching or listening

0:02

to another edition of the ANI Podcast

0:04

with Smita Prakash. This special edition is

0:07

being filmed in Bengaluru, Karnataka. Our

0:09

guest today is the former Chief

0:11

Minister of Karnataka, H.D. Kumaraswamy. HDK

0:13

or Kumarana as he is popularly

0:15

known is the son of a

0:18

former Prime Minister of India, Deva

0:20

Gauda. In the last count,

0:22

there are almost a dozen members of

0:24

the Gauda family in politics, state, national

0:26

and district level. HDK as

0:28

he is also known as is the most

0:30

successful of them, having been Chief Minister of the state

0:33

from 2006 to 2007 and 2018 to 2019. Mr.

0:41

Kumaraswamy is contesting from the Mandya

0:43

Lok Sabha seat. Kumaraswamy,

0:49

thank you so much. Welcome to

0:51

the ANI Podcast. I understand

0:53

that it's a very busy period. You're

0:56

campaigning. Yesterday, you were in

0:58

Mysuru, the Prime Minister was there. You were

1:00

there with your father. It's

1:03

a very crucial election and it's a

1:06

very strange election after the

1:09

fact that you have joined now with

1:11

the BJP in the NDA and

1:13

you're part of that. You

1:15

haven't been campaigning as much as in

1:17

the earlier election. Is

1:20

there any specific reason that you have not done it?

1:22

Is it because of health reason or

1:24

is it that you're confident about your victory?

1:27

Previously, in

1:29

all the elections, before this election, there

1:33

is a straight between all the three parties. But

1:37

this election, before election,

1:39

we come to an understanding,

1:42

we have aligned with BJP. This is the

1:45

first time before

1:47

the election, two

1:50

parties come together to

1:52

fight against another party. This

1:56

will going to be a very

1:59

strong... Alliance for

2:01

this election. We are

2:04

expecting all the 28 seats,

2:07

BJP and the ZDS combination of

2:10

India. We are going to win this

2:13

comfortably. In

2:15

2019, Sumalata had

2:18

defeated your son from the Mandya

2:21

seat. Interestingly, it's called

2:23

Sakreinadu, which is the

2:25

land of sugar. But people are

2:28

saying, and I'm noticing some articles

2:30

also would say that it's a

2:32

very bitter fight, even though it

2:34

is Sakreinadu, it is a very

2:36

bitter fight, which is happening out

2:38

there. Tell me about why it's

2:41

become so bitter. How is your

2:43

relationship with Sumalataji? Because she was

2:45

on the stage yesterday with the

2:47

Prime Minister and you all. Have

2:49

all the bitterness gone away? Are

2:52

you on the same page now? In politics,

2:54

there is no permanent bitterness, enemies.

2:56

Bitterness will not be there. That

2:59

is all. Every

3:02

time actually, what are all

3:04

the background, what are all the developments, it

3:08

will change according to me. Last

3:10

election, not

3:13

only last election in Mandya

3:15

particularly, when any elections

3:17

declare, all parties will

3:20

take it very seriously. Very

3:23

seriously and with bitterness, all

3:25

parties with using very

3:28

strong words, we

3:30

will actually fight the elections. That is

3:32

common in Mandya. Last

3:35

2019 election, Sumalataji,

3:39

when she contested as an independent

3:42

candidate, at that

3:44

time, outside

3:47

everybody thinks that Congress and

3:49

ourselves come together to face the

3:51

election. But at that

3:54

election, the entire Congress,

3:58

I think you already know that Sidhramaya several

4:01

time he expressed in

4:03

the public platforms we

4:05

are the main root cause to defeat

4:07

the Nikhil Kumar Swami. Even

4:11

though we come to an understanding with

4:13

alliance with Congress at that

4:16

election BJP then

4:18

right Sangha then Congress they

4:21

all supported Sumalath that

4:25

is why actually she won the election at that

4:27

time. Our candidate even

4:29

though he defeated is total

4:33

number of vote he got

4:36

5,70,000 votes. Whenever

4:38

previous elections if we

4:40

analyze all the elections who

4:42

got 5,20,5,15,000 they won the election even though he

4:44

got more than 5,76,000

4:49

votes he lost the election

4:53

that is different issue 2019 issue.

4:56

Now present situation is totally

4:59

different we are fighting against Congress BJP

5:02

this time they are supporting us there

5:06

is no problem so locally

5:08

BJP friends even workers and

5:10

leaders we came together unitedly

5:13

with mutual understanding we

5:16

are successfully campaigning in that area this election

5:19

we will go into comfortably win this

5:22

seat. Sir if I may

5:24

ask you what went wrong with your

5:26

relationship with the Congress at one

5:28

point of time you had said Raul you

5:31

even called Raul Gandhi punyatma

5:33

you had gone and met with the

5:35

Gandhi family there were those very warm and friendly

5:37

photographs that you know

5:39

you were standing next to Raul Gandhi,

5:41

Priyanka Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi all of them

5:43

what went wrong with that relationship? Had

5:47

a good and bad experience aligning

5:50

with BJP in Congress previous

5:53

time 2004 to

5:56

2006 we supported

5:58

Congress at that time also people

6:00

rejected Congress to get

6:02

majority, they got 62 seats,

6:05

our party we got 58 seats. Even

6:08

though people rejected them because

6:11

Congress they are running the government in the central,

6:13

center government, they presume that

6:15

they will not going to give Chief

6:18

Minister post to the GDS. Ultimately

6:20

we come together to

6:23

avoid BJP to come to power. After

6:26

getting the power Congress

6:28

friends how they treated us in 2004

6:31

also that is bad experience.

6:33

Ultimately father wanted to go for fresh

6:36

election by taking

6:39

back the support from GDS to

6:41

Congress. He already at

6:43

that time he went to

6:45

Sonia Gandhi, he expressed that it

6:47

is better to go for election. At

6:50

that time what happened BJP friends they

6:53

came to us and they requested

6:55

even our MLS also pressurized

6:57

me because just

6:59

we have finished 20 months. Last

7:02

election we have not actually

7:04

what loan we have raised

7:06

for the election expenditure. All

7:09

these things continuing please try to

7:12

get another government for temporary period.

7:15

At that time ultimately because of

7:17

my political party MLS and

7:20

BJP's request I had an

7:22

alliance with them and we formed the government. 2020

7:25

government there when we

7:27

formed the government with BJP we

7:30

have given a good administration. Entire

7:33

state not only state country

7:35

they are watching towards our

7:37

developments here. Then mutually

7:41

with understanding we have run a

7:43

good government that is one good

7:46

experience had but after

7:48

the 20 months what

7:50

I have decided to hand over the power to

7:54

several friends from

7:57

I do not want to express now all

7:59

those issues but

8:01

actually I wanted to hand over

8:03

the charge for the adiabrata but

8:06

in our parties only some

8:09

people they mis-shift to deserite

8:11

that of coalition that is

8:13

one issue. In

8:15

2018 this congress friends

8:18

in the public meeting during

8:20

the time of election publicly

8:24

they announced they are

8:26

criticizing JDS stand they told

8:28

JDS is the B team of

8:31

BJP. Weren't you the B

8:33

team of BJP? No at that time

8:35

we were fighting against BJP in congress. But

8:38

nobody really knows who is B team because

8:40

everybody keeps saying you are B team of congress you

8:42

are B team of BJP somebody is B

8:44

team. These two friends

8:47

whenever they wanted they

8:49

utilize our party as B team. But

8:52

you don't have a problem being B team no? No

8:55

because unnecessarily they

8:57

wanted to finish our party they are

9:00

frequently they are telling that JDS

9:03

is B team of congress JDS is

9:05

B team of BJP. This

9:07

is going on. In

9:09

2018 after the election result same

9:12

our Karnataka citizens they

9:14

rejected congress government that

9:17

time also fracture verdict. At

9:20

that time congress friends

9:22

from Delhi that is Gulam Nabi

9:25

Azad and Gellaut they

9:27

approached Deva Vodhaje. They

9:29

requested to form the government with them even

9:33

though Deva Vodha not wanted to give

9:39

direction to them to

9:41

bring my name as a chief minister

9:43

he opposed Deva Vodhaje. Even

9:45

Siddhram Mayai is alive, Shukumar is alive, Gulam

9:48

Nabi Azad is alive. or

9:52

somebody you can select for the chief minister

9:54

post my son is not

9:56

in a good health. This is

9:59

the requested time also from Devyavodaji.

10:02

Then Delhi leaders, they pressurised

10:05

that your party we decided to hand

10:07

over the Chief Minister post. After

10:10

the taking

10:13

oath from both the parties,

10:15

then they started putting all

10:18

conditions about portfolio,

10:20

again number of cabinet

10:23

ranks, they started. Not

10:25

only that, they have

10:27

not given any cooperation for me

10:30

to do good work. They

10:32

have several conditions they have put.

10:35

Whatever programs they have announced,

10:38

previous government, entire thing they

10:40

wanted to continue it, even they

10:42

does not want to cut short any even

10:45

budgetary allocation also. Was the corruption involved?

10:47

At that time no corruption. I am

10:49

actually both the time when

10:51

I took charge as Chief Minister, nobody

10:54

questioned me. Was that the reason why

10:56

they pulled down your government because you refused? No,

10:58

not only that Sidhiramaya from day one,

11:01

he was not happy. At

11:04

that time he expressed in

11:06

Dharmostala that nature cure Siddhavana

11:09

to his followers, please

11:12

be calm within one year

11:15

after the parliament election I

11:17

will remove this government. One

11:20

year you must simply calmly

11:23

actually work. But you have

11:25

also said that after 2024 election within

11:27

one year this government will go up

11:29

to Zaraamaya. Same thing, same thing we are going to

11:31

repeat now. Why I

11:33

am telling you after the

11:35

formation of Congress government here, several

11:38

ministers in their cabinet, Zaraamaya's

11:41

cabinet, every

11:43

day they are

11:45

independently expressing their additions. They

11:49

wanted three deputy

11:51

Chief Minister posts, they are demanding.

11:54

So the Chief Minister is not in control of his

11:56

cabinet? There is no control in his

11:58

cabinet. You are in control. There

12:02

is no control by anybody even

12:04

high command also by think after

12:06

this result of 2024, the

12:11

Sidhramaya himself I think he

12:13

will not going to give any respect to the high command whatever

12:16

decision you want to take you

12:18

will take to continue as chief

12:21

minister. So what you if

12:23

I may interpret what you are trying to

12:25

say is that even if the

12:28

high command wants to ask Sidhramaya to step

12:31

aside and ask D.K. Shukumar to take over

12:33

Sidhramaya is not going to listen he is

12:35

not going to give charge to D.K. We

12:38

know his character he is the

12:40

product of Janta Dal you

12:43

know what is his internally his

12:46

brain will work out you

12:48

know that he is not he is

12:51

not committed to any party only

12:53

to chair to get the chair he is

12:55

committed that's all. Deva Gaudadri

12:57

had interviewed many years ago he said

12:59

the same thing to me that the

13:02

most untrustworthy person he finds in the

13:04

Congress party is Sidhramaya. So is it

13:06

a very personal thing that your family

13:08

has against Sidhramaya because he went from your

13:10

party. There is no personal opposition

13:15

against Sidhramaya only

13:18

political opposition is

13:20

there politically we criticize because

13:24

he developed his political strength by

13:27

the honest work

13:31

by our party workers he

13:33

has not even in respect to our party workers not

13:36

only that his intention he

13:38

always in the public always

13:41

announcing that I wanted to finish

13:43

JDS that is his agenda

13:47

that's why actually we are politically opposing him.

13:49

So many who

13:51

are supporters of Sidhramaya they say

13:54

that we don't even need to

13:56

finish the JDS between Kumaraswamyji

13:58

and Deva Gaudadri. Rajeev, by

14:00

aligning with the BJP, anyway

14:03

the main character of JDS

14:05

has got diluted so much,

14:07

it will merge with the

14:09

BJP, is that true? There is no

14:12

question of merging our party with any

14:14

party, categorically

14:16

I am telling, there is no question,

14:19

we will strengthen our party on our

14:21

own, temporarily yes, how

14:23

BJP will command,

14:26

will going to trust us, how

14:28

they will going to treat us, that is important, if

14:31

we go smoothly, there is no question of

14:34

destroying JDS or coming

14:36

out of BJP, we will work

14:39

together, what this congress

14:41

friends are telling, Sidhramaya and his company,

14:43

I will tell them, even

14:45

not only one Sidhramaya, even 100

14:48

Sidhramaya come against us, they can't

14:50

do anything to our party, they

14:52

can't damage. So

14:55

in 2006 you went against your father's

14:57

wish and you forged an

14:59

alliance with BJP, in 2018 you

15:01

said that you will not hurt

15:03

your father again, you will not go, how

15:07

come he agreed now and there are

15:09

some people who say that there was the

15:11

Modi factor which led to

15:14

this because despite

15:17

the BJP itself saying that we shouldn't align

15:19

with the JDS, despite JDS

15:21

leader saying we should not align,

15:23

there was some personality

15:27

synchronization that happened between Mr. Modi

15:29

and Mr. Deva Kaudha, is that

15:31

true that invitation towards for the

15:34

Ram Ande Krant Pratishtha, was there

15:36

the personal connect? I

15:40

wanted to remember

15:44

several issues, I want to express

15:47

because when Narendra Modi entered national

15:50

politics, at that

15:52

time Deva Kaudha is the main person

15:54

criticized about Narendra Modi's

15:59

national invitation. At

16:01

that time several issues he

16:03

expressed Devavodaji. Then whatever

16:06

he expressed at that

16:08

time after Modiji became Prime

16:10

Minister he went to meet him. Devavodaji

16:13

wanted to return from

16:16

politics. He wanted to

16:18

resign for impis, constancy.

16:21

But at that time Narayana Modiji

16:23

advised Devavodaji, no, no your presence

16:25

we required, your advice is

16:27

required. You must continue in Parliament. This

16:30

is the request by the

16:33

Prime Minister for Devavodaji. He always gave

16:35

respect to Devavodaji as a elder person

16:37

he treat him. After

16:42

the, assuming the charge of Prime

16:44

Minister, several times Devavodaji and

16:46

Prime Minister they met. Each

16:49

time he has given respect to

16:51

Devavodaji and he has taken

16:53

several advice from Devavodaji also. Even

16:55

now he treat him as a elder person

16:58

in this country. 2018

17:02

Devavodaji why he joined hand with

17:04

Congress throughout his career from last 60-62

17:06

years. Who?

17:10

Aligning with secular force

17:12

that secular issue everybody

17:14

discussing BJP they are telling that

17:16

they are communal force this is secular

17:19

force. Even

17:21

2006 itself I criticized about the secularism

17:23

issue. Why

17:25

telling regularly this

17:27

Congress friends secular to

17:30

safeguard them, secular

17:32

issues they are telling. But what

17:34

is the strength they have given to the regional

17:36

parties? By using the

17:38

regional parties Congress they

17:41

have destroyed several regional parties. This

17:44

is the one issue Devavodaji he

17:47

hunted because of Congress

17:49

several decisions taken by them.

17:51

How they humiliated Devavodaji? Ultimately.

17:55

What were the humiliation? Several ways

17:57

they humiliated. How? way

18:02

in 2000, 1995

18:05

when this united front parties

18:09

they supported Deva Vodhaji as

18:11

a Prime Minister candidate at that

18:13

time you know just a minute at that

18:15

time they removed Deva Vodhaji when they

18:19

removed him there is no reason at all

18:22

they have not told why they have removed Deva Vodhaji even

18:26

that time also he supported Gujral

18:30

and he continued in the united

18:32

front with congress only in 2004

18:35

again they

18:38

ditched Deva Vodhaji there were that time

18:40

also he respected congress

18:44

even though at that time urgently now

18:47

he is not more he

18:49

prided met me and

18:51

he prided met to join and

18:53

with congress BJP Deva

18:55

Vodhaji rejected at that time also he joined and

18:57

with congress after joining how

18:59

they treated that 20 months why

19:02

I have taken first time against

19:04

my father s wishes joining

19:06

and with BJP Deva Vodhaji

19:08

at that time actually went away

19:11

went away he actually

19:13

mentally totally weakened they admitted to

19:15

the hospital all

19:17

those things happened okay then

19:20

2009 he joined

19:23

and with third friend that is a different

19:25

issue then even

19:27

after Deva Vodhaji hand

19:30

overing the power to pay

19:32

BJP at that time

19:34

again these congress friends wanted

19:36

to split our party wanted

19:39

to split our party continuously they wanted

19:41

to destroy our even

19:44

all those developments Deva Vodhaji

19:46

joined hand with congress only

19:50

why do you do that why does your father do that?

19:52

that is why now he realized now

19:54

he realized he has taken a

19:56

bad decision by billy leaving

20:00

this congress friends. So what about you? There are

20:02

so many. I am totally

20:04

against to the Congress in

20:07

my life. I know how they will

20:09

go to treat us as a Chief Minister how

20:11

they treated me. I know. Sir

20:14

you have. Even at that time. You

20:16

spoke about secularism. Even at. Yeah. What

20:19

is the secular? What is the meaning by

20:21

this? I wanted to question this Congress friends. Every

20:24

day they are misusing the

20:26

caste composition. They

20:28

are using the caste composition and they wanted to

20:30

get benefit for their party. But aren't you. What

20:32

is the caste composition? Sir your party is a

20:34

vocaliga party. Where is the secularism? Your

20:37

party is absolutely got the boat

20:40

bank of vocaliga. You are

20:42

seen as a vocaliga leader. Isn't that caste politics? No,

20:44

no, no, no. Here I clarify you. Our party's strength

20:46

is vocaliga. Correct. I

20:48

will agree. By

20:51

the blessing

20:54

of vocaliga's Devagodhaji

20:57

how he helped several

20:59

community small groups. How

21:02

he helped them. There is nothing. I

21:04

am not saying. He respected all caste

21:06

small caste also. He

21:09

supported him in his life Devagodhaji.

21:11

He is not a vocaliga leader.

21:14

These people they wanted to in

21:17

the public they wanted to feel like that Devagodhaji is

21:19

the cow vocaliga leader. But he is not a vocaliga

21:22

leader. He is a mosque leader. No,

21:24

he is a former Prime Minister also.

21:26

So let's not even get into whether

21:28

it is restricted to one area. I

21:30

am just saying to you that you

21:32

know your the word secular is attached

21:34

to your party name. There

21:36

is no meaning at all. According to my experience after

21:39

my decision taken in

21:42

20 months 20 years how

21:44

I am moving in the public life. This

21:47

secularism issue or communism issue these

21:49

are meaningless according to me. Okay.

21:52

So you feel that if your

21:54

party people come and say that listen we

21:57

are secular party and you are now we

21:59

have to now. aligned with a party

22:01

which has got the tag of

22:03

Hindu nationalist. How does that

22:05

work with you? No, that is going

22:07

on actually. Hindu nationalism is

22:10

different issue. Here I

22:12

wanted to put a question to several

22:15

parties, how they would take condition

22:17

when they wanted. For

22:20

example, you take DMK itself. DMK,

22:23

they joined the cabinet of

22:26

central government with Congress also,

22:28

with BJP also. Then

22:30

where is the communalism, where is the secularism? Whatever

22:34

they wanted to get some benefit, at

22:37

that time they have taken their addition

22:39

for their own interest, not for secularism

22:41

or not for communalism. So, did the

22:43

India alliance make an outreach towards you

22:46

before you became part of this

22:48

grouping with the NDA? Did

22:50

they reach out to you and say you become part

22:52

of India alliance? Nobody from INDA,

22:55

they approached Deva Vodhaji. They ill treated him. Even

22:59

our Karnataka chief minister, he opposed

23:02

to take Deva Vodhaji in INDA

23:04

team. He opposed. He

23:07

told the INDA leaders, if you

23:09

want to join with Deva Vodhaji,

23:11

I will come out. This

23:15

is the actually the pressure by

23:18

this present chief minister. So,

23:20

you are saying that the BJP or the

23:22

NDA is giving a lot of respect to

23:24

Deva Vodhaji and to you, asking you to

23:26

be on the stage, be part of

23:28

the election campaign, everything, but only three

23:30

seats you are contesting from. Does that

23:33

make you feel that your

23:35

quota is too less? After the

23:37

delimitation considered in

23:40

our country, 2009, from

23:43

at that time, we won

23:45

the election, we won

23:47

three seats, we won independently, two seats

23:49

once, we won the elections.

23:52

We requested for only three seats only.

23:55

We are not demanded more than three

23:57

seats. There is no humiliation. They

24:00

have given total respect to

24:02

us, whatever demand we requested

24:05

for that actually ultimately they

24:07

agreed. Your brother-in-law is fighting with

24:09

the BJP tickets so that becomes three and

24:11

a half or three to the brother-in-law.

24:13

You can treat it as four

24:15

also, it's no problem because we

24:18

only suggested our

24:20

brother-in-law to contest from BJP

24:23

because this is the election strategy.

24:27

This is even introduced by your father. Only

24:30

to defeat this. DK Suresh. DK

24:32

Suresh, not only DK Suresh, how they

24:34

are conducting the election we know. Here

24:37

in this Bangalore rural political

24:40

analysis 18 lakhs

24:43

voters from three consensus that is

24:45

inside the Bangalore city area. Father-in-law,

24:48

Bangalore south and Anakar, other

24:50

five Talhaks which we are controlling

24:53

there we got only 11 lakhs votes. Their

24:56

19 lakhs is important. Here

24:58

people are with BJP, their people

25:00

are with JDS. By combining

25:03

JDS BJP we wanted to

25:06

actually remove this unnecessary

25:08

bad elements who are running

25:11

the representing that consensus.

25:14

How they are treating the people, how they

25:16

are looting the sources

25:18

of power. Why

25:20

is money power so important

25:23

in Karnataka politics? Zifar, audiences

25:25

who are living abroad, expat

25:27

audiences, those who are

25:30

not familiar with politics

25:32

so much, explain to me why

25:35

is Tamil Nadu politics, Andhra politics

25:37

and Karnataka politics, why is money

25:39

power so important? Sadhguru, this

25:41

is a very good question according to

25:43

me. Southern part of India

25:47

on the money and cost always

25:50

it will play major role in

25:52

Southern part of India. Northern part

25:54

of India there is no money, will not going

25:57

to work out, I know. Their

25:59

situation is... different here situation is

26:01

different. Election to election, the

26:04

election expenditure is going up not

26:07

going down everybody feels

26:10

that you must change the

26:12

election system this expenditure issues,

26:15

but telling the to

26:17

reduce the schedule the expenditure

26:19

they are raising themselves yeah

26:21

very difficult to conduct

26:23

an election or to stand for

26:25

the election common man he can't

26:28

contest for the election honest man

26:30

they can't contest in this areas

26:32

according to me not just

26:34

contest this resort politics Karnataka

26:36

has got such bad

26:38

reputation and sector bar anywhere

26:40

else it happens oh Karnataka

26:43

model Karnataka model that's what is as a

26:46

Karnataka I feel embarrassed when

26:49

my state is associated with this

26:51

third rate kind of politics even

26:53

this third rate politics we

26:55

are running here Karnataka

26:58

is a very strong state economically

27:02

Karnataka idea good resources that's

27:04

why everybody using

27:07

the illegal

27:09

money illegal money

27:12

for the elections several kind of people

27:14

are entering the politics now in Karnataka

27:17

one time the excise lobby

27:19

was there another

27:21

time this education education

27:23

is lobby then now

27:26

you now is builders they are

27:28

coming to politics this is

27:30

going on election to election sir

27:32

I want to ask you one question which for

27:35

the for an ado Kanadikas who are living what

27:38

would you encourage youngsters who

27:41

have no family member in

27:43

politics to get into Karnataka

27:45

politics is there any scope

27:48

any hope for them to do make a

27:50

change could they do that at

27:53

this center it is very difficult I

27:56

think future days youngsters if

27:59

they decide to bring good

28:01

atmosphere in this state. Further,

28:03

actually one person can't do anything. People,

28:07

they have to decide to

28:10

clean this system, bad system, according to

28:12

me. They have to take the

28:14

decision. Because every day we are seeing during

28:17

the time of election or if

28:20

election process started circulating,

28:22

saris, cookers, all those things is

28:24

going on. If you do good

28:26

work, what is the necessary for

28:29

us to distribute these kind of things? This

28:31

is going on. But not only this. If

28:34

you don't do it, you can't win. Pardon? Yeah. If you

28:36

don't do it, you can't win. No, you can't win. This

28:38

is the issue. Even last election,

28:40

these Congress friends, not only

28:43

they have announced five guarantees, several

28:46

candidates from Congress. Tomorrow

28:50

we go for polling at

28:52

that time. They,

28:55

but it's a Hindi.

28:58

What are you telling? Actually, before

29:00

going for the election, they

29:03

want they decide they distributed

29:05

the cards. Yeah,

29:08

five thousand rupees, five thousand. That is

29:10

guaranteed issue is different. Before

29:12

going to poll, five thousand

29:15

worth of material. If

29:17

we shown to the some malls,

29:20

they will decide they can go. But there's

29:22

no money for that. No, for guarantee. Yeah.

29:24

Individually, they are given the guarantee card. For

29:28

that also, several people misled. They

29:31

voted Congress. The system is

29:33

going on now. Yeah. But tell me,

29:35

I want to just come back to the

29:37

question that I asked you. When

29:40

you got into politics, was there an

29:42

option for you that you don't need

29:44

to do this? Why did you get into politics? Your

29:46

father was in politics already. You

29:48

and you were a filmmaker. Did

29:50

you get into politics because it was naturally thought

29:53

that, OK, you have to do this? Or did

29:55

you really want to make a change in

29:58

the 1990s? I

30:00

first entered for election by

30:04

contesting Kanakpura parliamentary segment. At

30:07

that time, the situation was different. Even

30:10

when father fought the

30:12

election in 1985, money

30:15

is not important at that time. People

30:18

are voted, not only voted, even they

30:21

donated the notes also by

30:23

blessing. Now the system is changed. But

30:26

one thing I will tell you, when

30:29

I became chief minister, then

30:31

from 2008, four elections, I

30:34

won the election. But I have

30:36

not gone to the voters. I

30:39

have travelling entire state to

30:42

get the blessings of the people for

30:44

other candidates. I have not got it.

30:46

Not your constituency. Not constituency. Only I

30:48

went there to file the nomination papers.

30:50

That's all. For election

30:52

campaign, I have not entered to my

30:54

constituency. People are voted me. Now

30:56

also, only I

30:58

went there to file the nominations. I

31:01

have not actually entered for

31:03

election campaign. I'm travelling entire

31:05

state now. 14

31:09

first-race elections. I'm travelling to get

31:11

the blessings of the people for

31:13

those candidates. This is my

31:15

nature. I'm not going

31:17

to campaign personally. Our workers will

31:19

take care of all the responsibilities.

31:22

So every speech of Prime Minister

31:24

for so many years now, he

31:28

goes on saying that Parivar Vad is

31:30

like a cancer which has eaten up

31:32

our politics. It should not be

31:35

there. But when it comes to

31:37

making allies, they are making allies

31:39

with your party. Where clearly it

31:41

is Parivar Vad. People

31:43

so many from your family, I don't want to

31:46

count, but almost a dozen from your family in

31:48

some way or the other are there. Several

31:50

qualities. Even national parties. If I see Mulan Singh

31:52

Yadav, if I see him, I see him. No,

31:55

not only Mulan Singh, but Karnataka. Karnataka

31:58

election campaign. in

32:00

this selection, 12 candidates

32:02

who were selected by the Congress,

32:06

they are from the ministry. So they never say that

32:08

they are against Parivarwar, it's the BJP which

32:10

says it's against Parivarwar. So isn't that

32:12

wrong? That is not the

32:14

main issue according to me. That

32:16

is not the issue. Regional parties

32:19

on the support of the one

32:22

family leadership only, they are surviving.

32:25

For example, you can take Tamil Nadu. What

32:27

is going on? Only

32:31

the particular family, they are controlling

32:33

the parties. But isn't that with

32:35

your party also? No, our party,

32:38

yes, in Karnataka or

32:40

Jantadhar, secular, we are running.

32:43

We are running, why? There is no

32:46

alternate leaders actually, we

32:48

can't depend on them. Everybody

32:50

tells that you can only actually

32:54

lead the political activities.

32:56

It is very difficult other than your

32:58

leadership. This is going on. This

33:01

is actually several regional parties controlled

33:03

by their families only. Do you regret

33:06

getting into politics? Do you feel

33:08

that maybe it should have been?

33:11

Sometime I actually regret, sometime I'm

33:13

happy when I helped

33:15

several poor families, at that time

33:17

I'm very happy. Sometime

33:19

I regret for that entry for the

33:21

politics. Does it take too much energy? Does

33:24

it, there is no time for family? Does that happen? What

33:27

will happen now? I will tell you. Even

33:30

though BJP is a

33:32

KEDAP based party, they

33:34

are very strong in the entire country.

33:37

The entire burden was taken by the

33:39

honorable Prime Minister only. He

33:42

has to travel every day

33:45

and he has to campaign for

33:47

the candidates. Minimum 20-22 hours he

33:49

wanted to, the entire

33:51

burden is actually depending on him

33:53

only. No other leaders.

33:55

The entire BJP party

33:57

is depending on. No other more.

34:01

So what

34:04

happens, there's usually one patriarch and

34:06

one person takes over. When Mulayam

34:08

Singh Ji passed away, there was

34:10

a fight between the brothers, uncles,

34:13

all that happened and

34:15

it was Akhilesh who took over. Now

34:18

God give Deva Gaudaji a long life,

34:20

but he's still the patriarch of your

34:22

party. Is there

34:24

a line of succession clear in your party?

34:27

Because it's not just a family, it's

34:29

not your family property only that one

34:31

is talking about, it's your party and

34:33

there are thousands of karikartas on the

34:35

ground. They also must be concerned,

34:37

is there a line of succession? Unfortunately

34:39

in our party, where

34:44

we are selecting to

34:47

develop the leaders, they

34:49

will develop in our party, then they

34:51

will leave our party and join other parties.

34:54

This is our problem. We wanted to

34:56

hand over the entire

34:58

political additions and not

35:00

only responsibilities to the

35:02

several leaders, we wanted to develop them. But

35:05

after developing, after getting some strength by

35:08

the hardship

35:10

of our party workers, after

35:13

getting strong, they will leave our

35:15

party. This is going on

35:17

continuously from last 15-20 years. This

35:20

is going on in our party. That's why

35:22

actually the entire burden is on us only.

35:24

There's one issue which has just come

35:27

up, which I wanted a clarification from

35:29

you. The entire Congress party is

35:31

up in arms just because of one

35:33

comment that you made about Avamana. Can

35:36

you just clarify to our audiences that

35:38

whether you meant anything

35:41

negative about women's issues

35:43

or was it being misconstrued? What

35:45

is it that happened? That is

35:47

actually Congress people, they have

35:49

no issues

35:52

against me. Day before

35:54

yesterday, what I told in the public

35:56

meeting about the five

35:58

guarantees. that issue

36:00

they have misleading the people

36:02

now. In our family,

36:05

we are the most woman-oriented

36:10

family respecting women.

36:13

Even though I was Chief

36:15

Minister in 2006, in this

36:18

state, when I went

36:20

to villages, village women,

36:22

they requested me to abolish our

36:25

liquor issue. Then

36:28

I decided to abolish that

36:31

liquor to distribute here

36:33

in Karnataka. Because we wanted to respect

36:36

the women. Several issues

36:38

we have taken for the development of

36:40

women empowerment. That

36:43

is our main, our

36:46

party's strength. That's why

36:48

they wanted to damage. They are

36:50

misleading that statement. So, what

36:53

is the value addition that Kumar

36:55

Swami, that is JDS, brings to

36:57

the NDA? Definitely it

36:59

will going to help BJP also, according to

37:01

me. After the 2023 election,

37:06

Congress, they have formed the

37:08

government on their own 136, they got. After

37:12

the election result, BJP

37:14

workers also, they are

37:16

not happy. After

37:18

joining hand with BJP, our party, they

37:21

are also coming out. It

37:23

has given strength to BJP also. Wherever

37:27

what share is there, if

37:29

we transfer only 3 to

37:31

4% to BJP candidate in 18 parliamentary segments,

37:36

they will all going to elect in this election.

37:39

This is the strength. Sir, last question I have

37:41

to ask you this. You are a very emotional person. When

37:44

you were chief minister, one saw several times

37:46

that when the pressure got to you, you

37:48

start crying. Is

37:51

that still a thing with you that you

37:53

still get very emotional? Sometimes when

37:56

we see the difficulties of poor people.

38:00

Automatically, actually, we

38:02

always cry because the

38:04

problem what we seen. We

38:06

can't control it. Are you too trusting? That's

38:09

why you get stabbed in the

38:11

back so many times. No, that is

38:13

continuously going on. For that actually

38:15

we are not repenting. We

38:17

are going very strong by doing by

38:19

work actually with all. No, but you

38:21

got taken in by the BJP before

38:24

you got taken in by the Congress. You've

38:26

been betrayed so many times and

38:28

every time is an emotional response from

38:31

you. That's right. Actually,

38:33

we can't do anything. That's how

38:35

we try. Only thing with affection,

38:38

with believing

38:40

those people, we have to continue

38:42

in this politics. Not only politics,

38:44

even life also, we depend on

38:46

several friends actually

38:48

believing them. We travel, but

38:52

ultimately what are all the decision

38:55

already given by the God. For

38:57

that we have to abide for that. Thank you

38:59

so much for speaking with us. Wishing you a

39:01

good health and a successful

39:04

campaign before the election.