0:00

Namaste, Jai Hind. You are watching or listening

0:02

to another edition of the ANI podcast with

0:04

Smitha Prakash. Since we are in the thick

0:06

of elections, most of my guests are politicians.

0:09

Today let's turn our attention to

0:11

Uttar Pradesh, which has sent in

0:14

the maximum number of Prime Ministers

0:16

to Delhi, nine of them, from

0:18

the first one Jawaharlal Nehru to

0:20

the current one Narendra Modi, who's

0:22

fighting his re-election from the ancient

0:24

city of Varanasi, also known as

0:26

Kashi. But today my guest

0:28

is Akash Anand, who's he? Many

0:30

of you may not even have heard

0:32

of him, but he is the inheritor

0:35

of the legacy of Kashi Ram and

0:37

Mayawati. Akash Anand is the political inheritor

0:39

of the legacy of the Bahujan Samaj

0:41

party and is the nephew of Mayawati,

0:43

the leader of the Dalit Samaj and

0:46

former Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh. Akash

0:49

is a newcomer to politics. I want

0:51

to know from him what happened to

0:53

the political career of his aunt Mayawati,

0:55

who was once even seen as Prime

0:57

Minister material. She slowly but

1:00

surely frittered away her political

1:02

capital, and her political capital

1:04

is the Dalit Samaj, historically

1:06

the most backward among Hindu

1:08

castes and economically depressed section

1:10

of society. Even though

1:12

Bhenji, as Mayawati is referred to, used

1:14

to say that she will never have

1:16

a family member to inherit the legacy

1:18

of the Dalit icon, Kashi Ram, and

1:21

her, she has succumbed to what most

1:23

politicians do in India, brought in her

1:25

family member right on top. So

1:27

let's get talking to Akash Anand. Thank

1:34

you Akash for being part of the podcast.

1:36

Welcome to the studio. And

1:39

I have, I'm taking the liberty of addressing

1:41

you by the first name, even though I'm

1:44

meeting you for the first time. So

1:46

let's get cracking right away because you

1:48

know, it's politics and it's

1:51

election time, election season. You're

1:53

the national coordinator for the Bahujan Samaj Party.

1:56

So for our expat audience, if you could

1:58

tell me a little bit about Party

2:00

of what it represents. The community

2:02

represents people in India and with

2:04

the for this. Would have goes

2:06

north but as. The first

2:09

generation. Are of you know

2:11

expert audience were trying to figure

2:13

out about politics. If you could

2:15

just tell me a little bit

2:17

so burdensome a party of the

2:19

Abyss be was actually formed ah

2:21

forty years ago mambo and of

2:24

it was established by money was

2:26

sub seek i sit on t

2:28

he was a scientist by profession

2:30

ah a government employee. I.

2:32

End of May he actually was

2:35

not already have oh so dizzy

2:37

keen on politics. He was not.

2:39

He was away from politics for

2:41

the longest of dame ah but

2:43

he faced a lot of discrimination

2:45

at his job and of the

2:47

incident is when no one of

2:49

five Gurus birthday was being celebrated

2:52

or the team and him into

2:54

his team to quest for a

2:56

holiday and ah this is seniors

2:58

A did not allow it and

3:00

that led to him getting involved.

3:02

And study about the boat and

3:05

some mods or the Dell. it's

3:07

movement and slowly and steadily that

3:09

turned into you know, him, establishing

3:11

vote and so much party. And

3:15

I think about twenty five years

3:17

ago though twenty five years later

3:19

of we were able to form

3:22

or first was legit will majority

3:24

government in the police the boats

3:26

into my party basically stance forward

3:28

all minority groups across the country.

3:31

Are So we were the first

3:33

party political party who was able

3:35

to send. People.

3:38

From group of from most communities

3:41

which had not had representations in

3:43

the past. So

3:45

rajput community was was the first

3:47

one that we would it would

3:50

do ascended person to the parliament

3:52

or there were multiple more examples

3:54

that that are there and we

3:56

continue to work the woods building

3:59

a more. Double Society.

4:02

And I think gerb, we had a firm

4:04

believer of barbosa hubs. Ideology

4:06

so we're very contested on

4:08

out hell bent as so

4:10

to say on implementing the

4:13

constitution. and it's a true

4:15

farm and neat up. and

4:17

whenever that is a discussion

4:19

on changing the constitution ah

4:21

v strongly oppose it. I

4:23

get to the constitution beast, our

4:25

political system that we haven't, Democracy

4:27

that we have our little in

4:29

the short of first for our

4:32

audience arm. You know to understand

4:34

where. You come from here and

4:36

oh why oh why you are

4:38

part of for political party What what

4:40

happened or your entries Because I'm

4:42

in a december of twenty twenty three

4:45

Your aunt ah now with easy who

4:47

has headed the party for decades know

4:49

the Bahujan Samaj. Party and Oshie

4:52

announce that. I'm load that

4:54

you will have be bill

4:56

coordinator and oh you know.

4:58

Unlike the Samajwadi party the she had

5:01

always said that this is not a

5:03

family bees party and it is. My

5:05

family will not be there but then

5:07

ah see seem to promote somebody from

5:09

don't Have A friend the same elitists.

5:11

I want to know what changed in

5:14

the Bsp, What changed in my what.

5:16

The deal Named so I'm.

5:19

A for hims he had been

5:21

a very firm believer of money

5:23

were sobs ideology or as was

5:25

his thought process and even money

5:27

was. I have never promoted anybody

5:30

from the family ah but he

5:32

was able to groom the Hindi

5:34

from oh of etti recent stage

5:36

of folk audio and fact money

5:38

was hub had discovered Baines he

5:40

ah and he gave her the

5:43

most first stage so to say

5:45

to you know get her started

5:47

in the political sphere says. Oh.

5:50

On. The other hand, Benji also

5:52

blow dried a lot of people

5:55

in the past. sort that I

5:57

believe since two thousand. They

6:00

were all as early as two thousand

6:02

and Three and four. She'd been trying

6:04

to groom a couple of people to

6:06

take a take up the of matches

6:09

from her. Ah, but. At. Some

6:11

stage or the other they were

6:13

not able to step up to

6:15

the occasion and or that led

6:18

to the senior leaders me not

6:20

recommending Ma'am are highly suggesting a

6:22

mangy that the if you're not

6:25

able to groom anybody from the

6:27

society at the moment. ah and

6:29

we're at a junction where you

6:31

know. That. Riyadh And

6:34

that means we're in a position where

6:36

you are almost of your we're far

6:38

away from wavy word back in two

6:40

thousand and seven. So I think at

6:42

least for the time being you can

6:44

from somebody from the family as a

6:46

custodian and are you can keep your

6:48

conditions with them. So

6:50

that is some sort of balance

6:52

to what you had initially proposed

6:55

and what we're going to do

6:57

now. I'm. A. Sink or the

6:59

fact that dumb nobody else was able

7:01

to step up. During. A

7:05

Hard Time York is the

7:07

reason why somebody from the

7:09

family was pushed into this.

7:11

More than know pushed. I think it does

7:13

love from what it from the family. Okay.

7:16

What? What? Weather conditions You talked about?

7:18

Certain conditions that lead this. What Are

7:20

those conditions? So the first condition

7:22

and the only condition that means is

7:25

that with custodian of custodian alone to

7:27

the political party Ah V will be

7:29

leading it from the front. We will

7:31

not be fine fighting and he elections

7:33

a pussy and of a thing. That's

7:36

the only condition that is that that

7:38

we will not find any elections ah

7:40

and a good the parliament or so.

7:43

But isn't that power without responsibility?

7:45

than? A seperate

7:47

Moses much parties. Also a

7:50

democratic go. Party. and

7:52

of you also hold intern elections

7:54

every five years ah where

7:56

people are the committee said stone

7:59

and watch the chairperson.

8:02

So if I'm not capable enough or

8:06

somebody from the family person is not capable enough

8:08

to manage the party and

8:10

take it forward then the committee has the

8:13

complete right to you know move me out

8:15

of the position and promote

8:17

somebody who can actually deliver. So

8:20

in 2018 your father who is Benji's

8:22

brother was asked to step

8:24

aside. At that time

8:27

there were accusations ED accusations,

8:29

enforcement directorate accusations. So

8:31

was that a top-down decision by

8:33

Mayavathiti? Was it a collective decision

8:35

as you say happens in your

8:37

party? It's always a collective decision

8:39

it's not one-sided one man

8:42

show. Benji

8:44

yes does propose a lot of ideas

8:46

and she runs by those with all

8:48

the senior leaders and then takes a

8:50

call. In fact Ananji

8:54

my father had initially

8:57

proposed to step down himself

8:59

so that it doesn't bring

9:01

a lot of nuisance

9:03

to the party. I mean there

9:05

are accusations and they're put politically motivated

9:08

so therefore he suggested that instead of

9:10

you know bringing the whole thing to

9:12

a halt we should step aside at

9:14

the moment. Let us clear those acquisitions

9:16

and then come back. So then in

9:19

2023 what happened? Why did your aunt

9:22

who's I mean for her since

9:24

she's not married she has no

9:26

children she's not adopted anybody she's

9:28

probably like you know a

9:31

mother figure for you also. Yes. So

9:33

what happened why did she do

9:37

that fallback option and bring you in when

9:39

she had taken her brother off

9:41

the rolls? So like

9:44

I said it was at that time where

9:46

we were going through some challenges and

9:48

we didn't want to taint the party because

9:51

of that and we

9:53

are more or less sort of clear with

9:55

ED and CBI and therefore

9:57

he's again back in the position. he's

10:00

again managing all the back-end

10:02

operations that are required, that

10:04

he is responsible for. And

10:08

I think it was just a sheer timing at

10:10

that time. Okay. Let

10:12

me come to, you know, which

10:14

you were talking about that she tried

10:16

to groom people and it didn't

10:18

work. Has she

10:21

faced a number of betrayals from within

10:23

the party? Because there are many people

10:25

who were considered close to the inner

10:27

circle of Mayawati Ji, who switched parties

10:30

and went. So is this

10:32

a constant strain of betrayals that led

10:34

her to come back and get

10:36

your brother, your father and then get

10:39

you into the fold? I

10:41

would say that there's

10:44

nothing such as betrayal per se

10:46

and it's all circumstantial. The

10:49

party has been going through

10:51

some tough times in

10:53

the last decade or so. And

10:58

I think the leaders or

11:00

the politicians also, you

11:03

know, they take a switch whenever they

11:05

deem fit for their particular personal interests.

11:08

And I think that's what has happened. And

11:11

we're here to re-establish,

11:13

so to say, or execute on her vision.

11:17

I feel that, you know, if

11:19

you're able to execute on her vision, what she set

11:21

out for the party, these

11:23

leaders, so to say, who have betrayed

11:27

her will look

11:29

forward to coming back. There's nothing such as betrayal

11:31

per se. I wouldn't call that. You

11:34

know, when Kashiramji started

11:36

the movement, he

11:38

was an iconic leader. He started it. That

11:42

was a time when even the word Dalit was

11:44

not known so much. Right. He starts

11:46

the party. Then there's this idolatry

11:48

phase for Mayawati Ji. She's seen

11:50

even some even say that she

11:52

would probably be the first Dalit

11:54

prime minister of this country or first prime

11:57

minister who's a Dalit From

11:59

this country. She began to the

12:01

Chief Minister you Ambani in and

12:03

India where's up where the rights

12:06

are more laid out with you

12:08

Learn to stand up and if

12:10

there is any discrimination on you

12:12

will fight it. Nobody will openly

12:14

discriminate against you. may be subtly

12:17

it'd be this on how do

12:19

you represent the Bowden some Ud

12:21

fra deep differently from. What your

12:23

aunt did. I'm so the discrimination like

12:25

you said is still versus It's not

12:28

that it's not a it's not that

12:30

yes oh yes we will do. In

12:32

two years of of the country you

12:34

still find that open discrimination happening. If

12:36

you come to metres cities deal want

12:39

you to cities to find it in

12:41

the subtle manner. you know that this

12:43

comes from happening in the Saturday Sept

12:45

more subtle manner. See what we have

12:47

had. Oh what would boat as much

12:49

party has been able to achieve his

12:52

ah people people's. Ability to stand and

12:54

fight for themselves. And why stairs

12:56

discrimination on I am. There was

12:58

a time when boat and so

13:00

much why do with didn't exist.

13:02

And are you know our community

13:04

People could not sit in front

13:07

of an upper castes person. Yeah,

13:09

could not drink from the same

13:11

when I'm on. Well

13:13

as again I think of a reasonable

13:15

the stinks because we weren't allowed to

13:17

be in the same part of the

13:20

village as well. Yeah, so are our

13:22

houses. Were. Actually positioned in a

13:24

such and such a manner of in

13:26

the relayed i said been bothering me

13:29

he would have to have have a

13:31

good for with a sale when he

13:33

tells the howard to see this isn't

13:35

the only half mighty was do so

13:38

through particle at the the local level

13:40

would discriminate, gutted or eyes as a

13:42

hickey queen of you know but nobody's

13:45

able to discount the hood and so

13:47

much ah in not just in the

13:49

political sphere but also in the community.

13:51

The door What. Is it your vote? As

13:54

much party could be? That's an achievement for

13:56

us. To deviant Got

13:58

a platform where weekend? Why seconds? We

14:00

can raise these issues wherever we see them.

14:02

I didn't the into does of the country

14:04

where it is eight on the face or

14:07

in the major cities where there's actually managed

14:09

subtly.but others what my earlier question which I

14:11

have which I started with. With that,

14:14

get all pissy. Laundry ceased

14:16

Discrimination. Via He. The

14:18

movement was born out of Bushnell

14:20

Ah. Expedient? Yeah. My

14:22

with easy faced it has says yeah

14:25

she's she's like. She's

14:27

had a tough time in

14:29

hub politics. She says it has as

14:31

weird as you haven't you been cautioned from

14:33

that wasn't a. Lot. Of boy known

14:35

on i think that is of so i

14:37

lived as your bus the case of. I.

14:40

Was in a school bus who is

14:42

was who'd one of the most premium

14:44

schoolyard the country right and I had

14:47

a senior one year older to me

14:49

I was i think in sixth grade

14:51

and he was in seventh grade as

14:53

have a personal or i've never said

14:56

this before have no a told anybody

14:58

about this before so i just joined

15:00

of new to the schools ah and

15:03

everybody knew my background. Memes, a nephew,

15:05

nephew and eight and this guy was

15:07

also from a political back on netflix.

15:10

And not as large, as

15:12

strong as what Mom is.

15:15

A but mean, I'm Emily lives.

15:17

Oh and he had the comfort

15:19

of the audacity to call me

15:21

to mods or a Yeah, And

15:23

he he he he not did

15:25

that. He didn't do that of

15:27

of by mistake. it was repeatedly

15:30

done over as the word. Learn

15:32

a half two years those them

15:34

I found the cottage. do you

15:36

know? push him back. At

15:38

the sixth grade see new that's using

15:40

a word like to my is a

15:43

slush or Jesus said it. know

15:45

he knew that it was and incised he

15:47

used to doesn't inside and he does give

15:49

me a he he said it width of

15:51

as if it was an abusive foot and

15:53

called me out in front of everyone every

15:55

time he saw me in fact it became

15:57

so bad that i used to you know

16:00

shy away from or

16:02

been seen with my friends in front of

16:04

him or near when he, whenever he was

16:06

nearby. So, it's not that one has not

16:08

faced these challenges and there are multiple more

16:10

incidents as such. So, when

16:12

this happened, let me get back to

16:14

that incident. When this happened Akash, did

16:17

you know what the word Chamar was? Yes, very

16:20

clearly. Or was that incident

16:23

what made you realize what the word Chamar is?

16:25

So, we know what Dalit

16:28

or Chamar meant. If

16:30

I may use this

16:32

platform to say, it

16:35

is not politically correct and it is not allowed

16:38

by law to call somebody Bhangi. It

16:41

is also not allowed to call somebody Chamar. It's

16:44

sort of or a

16:46

hurry gen for that matter. These

16:49

are not the right words to use.

16:51

These are more of insults people use

16:53

them for and we were aware of

16:55

this because family made... Who told

16:57

you this? So, we've seen this.

16:59

How did you grow up? I'm sorry,

17:01

I'm asking you these very personal questions

17:04

but I want to know the

17:06

angst of this so that people get

17:09

more aware about it. You

17:11

understood? It just

17:13

comes out of people's mouths, you know? And

17:16

because they have heard their mothers saying

17:18

it, they've heard their fathers saying it.

17:21

So, sometimes it automatically moves in nikal

17:23

thai which shouldn't happen. But I'm just

17:25

asking you this that when

17:27

you were growing up, that you should be proud

17:30

of it and you should push back. Who

17:39

taught you this? Your mother, your father,

17:41

your aunt, who? So, I think that

17:43

in fact for that matter, Dad

17:47

was in a government job before 2003. So,

17:51

I think that if you were

17:53

a upper caste, you would

17:56

have to be a uncle out of... So,

18:31

the incident was not

18:33

that bad. But the incident was

18:35

that many people were subconsciously who

18:38

were not able to understand the

18:40

truth. You are not

18:42

able to understand it? No, I am

18:45

not. The outskirts of Delhi,

18:47

for those who don't understand it, are expect

18:50

viewers. So, it's hardly five

18:52

minutes. Now it's part of NCR. So, those

18:54

who think you are not able to understand it?

18:56

Yes, outright. So,

18:59

we have to understand that there are some people who are

19:01

not able to understand it. And

19:03

we have to understand that we have

19:06

shifted and we have moved in with

19:08

her. We

19:11

started getting a lot of these information,

19:13

these conversations around us happening. Where

19:16

we realized, okay, this is right, this is wrong. But in

19:18

the point when that incident happened, Akash,

19:21

did you speak with the principal, with the

19:23

teachers? Was he stopped from

19:26

doing what he was doing? No, no, no. So, that

19:28

was the first problem. I think

19:31

we all, whenever these incidents happen,

19:34

we have to ignore the fact that we are not

19:36

able to understand it. Maybe

19:39

we can't understand it. We have to understand it. We

19:42

have to understand it. And we

19:44

have to understand that we are not able to understand

19:46

it. We have

19:48

to understand it. We have to understand

19:50

it. So, I

19:53

didn't find the courage to speak to anyone.

19:56

And I think that was the biggest mistake of my

19:58

life. I actually learnt that

20:01

if you want to stop somebody

20:03

from discriminating or abusing you, I

20:11

think you should fight back. It took me

20:13

some time. I was young. Yeah,

20:15

it's great. You're

20:19

not even a teenager. You're a pre-teen. So,

20:22

one and a half years down the road when it got a

20:24

little too much, I just

20:27

went in and I had a discussion with

20:29

him and I said, if you'll continue to do this,

20:32

then it will be a problem for all of us.

20:35

I knew by that time that political

20:38

power meant something,

20:40

not just in outside the school

20:42

or in the society, but inside the

20:44

school and around my friends and all

20:46

the people around me. So,

20:48

I had no choice but to threaten him and

20:50

say, Kibosh, if you will not stop, then

20:53

I will drag you. I'll have to drag your ass outside the

20:55

school and show you what it means to

20:57

be a Chamar. So,

21:00

and I felt that I could do

21:02

that because I had the political

21:04

backup to do so. And

21:07

I think that's what we're trying to build now.

21:10

When you went abroad, were you

21:12

purposely sent by your

21:14

parents to study outside the country so that

21:16

you are protected from this? No,

21:18

no, no. I think I didn't

21:21

mention this incident to my parents or

21:23

my older. I

21:26

had to deal with my everybody's fighting

21:28

a battle. So they had their own

21:30

challenges. And I think I could

21:33

I wanted to deal with these issues myself and I

21:35

did. And I think

21:37

that's not necessarily

21:39

to what people are going through outside. If

21:42

you go through the stories that

21:44

people are actually the challenges people are facing

21:47

related to such issues, this

21:50

is nothing. But it makes you

21:52

empathetic to what they face in

21:54

their life. Which is what

21:56

I was trying to get that whether you've

21:58

been cocooned from this kind of. The of

22:00

discrimination or whether you are empathetic

22:02

because you have ceased similar kind

22:04

of of so. Good

22:08

kooning as not happen for us. I

22:10

think every step of the we would

22:12

do with has happened in our life

22:14

is ah basically to build a better

22:16

human. Or and and and

22:18

so we've been to a very nice

22:21

could before that we were studying in

22:23

a while public schools some of the

22:25

schools ah it was a christian school

22:28

and Catholic schools and of we were

22:30

quite into woods at that time so

22:32

we moved into a more premium

22:34

school. we saw the lifestyle there and

22:37

then I went abroad and the purpose

22:39

was basically to have a world where

22:41

leave you have everything so politics or

22:44

odd road you know being a good

22:46

human in was. Of having of

22:48

completely are only overly view on

22:51

a bit of the issue so

22:53

we were able to understand what

22:55

poverty means we were we we

22:57

understand what the discrimination means we

23:00

understand his community not just in

23:02

costa in religion but also engender

23:04

have club So we've been given

23:06

all those opportunity to understand these

23:09

challenges first hand and that's why

23:11

we went to broaden and came

23:13

back and. Ah, my personal

23:15

interest lies in finance and though sort

23:18

of business and I did start and

23:20

then again but as first got involved

23:22

with my own business setting up my

23:24

own ventures. Ah. And. And I think

23:26

that's going to be a big of an acid. Moving. Into

23:29

politics, politics, August. So let me

23:31

come back to the odd the challenges

23:33

before the deluxe Community political challenges. guess

23:35

I'm of for it to a large

23:37

extent. It's been a been my. Of

23:39

Cg who has represented the dalit community.

23:42

And did is nobody else her

23:44

stage I'm who has come up

23:46

oh to that level it's on.

23:49

That. And you notice. Since she's

23:51

very shy. About the of media interactions

23:53

and are basically you know she leaves

23:55

out statements doesn't do much of interview

23:58

so. Ah as and you add it up. representative

24:01

of the party. So I will ask you some of

24:03

the questions which I would want to ask her. Why

24:06

has she been missing from hardcore

24:09

political action for almost a

24:11

decade now and the vote share

24:13

has been dwindling since 2014. It's

24:16

been dwindling. What is the reason this has

24:18

happened? See 2014 and 2019 if you

24:20

look at the locus of elections our vote share

24:22

is continued to remain at a 19% or so.

24:27

Okay, but the seats. The seats have been

24:29

a concern. See seats again. It's

24:31

a mathematical equation.

24:34

So when we were standing alone

24:36

back in 2014, we managed to get 19% vote share but

24:41

our seat count was zero

24:43

and when we went into alliance of vote share remain the

24:45

same but we were able to garner 10 seats. We

24:49

feel that when we

24:51

are in alliance, we don't

24:53

actually make a lot of headway

24:55

in terms of increasing our vote share

24:59

and and vice versa we're not able to even

25:02

we're not in alliance with somebody we are able

25:04

to maintain our vote share but if we seat

25:06

zero we feel that we feel that alliance partner

25:08

will be in a vote-cut. We

25:11

are not able to maintain our vote share. But

25:15

we feel that alliance partner will

25:17

be in a vote share. We

25:21

are not able to maintain our vote share. Who

25:25

is very adamant that we are not at

25:27

the cost of us compromising with somebody

25:33

like a Samaj Vadi party. So

25:35

we saw some of the vote share moved from

25:38

us to BJP or Congress. So

25:41

we feel that we are

25:43

not in alliance with our vote share in

25:45

an intact truck. We are not in alliance

25:47

with our vote share in an intact truck.

25:49

And as and when time allows maybe social

25:51

engineering and right circumstances political

25:53

environment will be able to garner more

25:55

seats also. is

26:00

that not the case in Uttar Pradesh? Not necessarily.

26:02

See, Agarap, Western UP is

26:07

not a very little on-ground activity. They have very

26:09

little virtue also they are able to maintain. I

26:11

would constrain them to one part of UP rather

26:13

than the

26:16

whole UP or Hamara competition, Samajvati is a

26:18

very little on-ground activity. Actually,

26:22

the voters are very intact. What do you

26:24

think about the voters? The

26:29

alliance is very important. Is that what you are saying?

26:35

Yes. So did

26:38

India alliance make overtures towards UK and

26:40

did the NDA make overtures and Abhinav,

26:44

what do you think

26:47

about the policy in the

26:49

alliance? We

26:52

don't want to be part of a coalition

26:54

where we are not aligned with a partner's

26:56

thought process and their execution style. We want

26:59

to be part of a coalition where we

27:01

are not aligned with a

27:05

partner's thought process and their

27:07

execution style. We are

27:10

not part of a

27:12

alliance. During the campaigning

27:15

only we realized that they

27:17

are not the right partner for us. There

27:19

were a lot of commitments that were made

27:21

but execution can be done in the

27:23

future. So we are not going to be part of a

27:26

alliance. Whether

27:29

it is India or whether it is India

27:32

alliance or India block, I

27:37

think that the political parties are leading the

27:39

political parties in the alliance. BJP

27:43

or Congress, they were at

27:46

reasonable times. They were

27:48

in the majority in states and

27:50

in the center. And

27:52

execution is not only for the

27:54

people who represent the community, but

27:58

for the people who represent the community. 20 elevator

28:00

guide. So

28:02

S rate I

28:30

don't know if you know the gentleman from Ladakh,

28:34

Mr. Ramachuk. Though he's been raising his

28:36

concerns. I think he was also on,

28:38

you know, Harutal, he was not eating

28:40

21 days. He

28:43

was on a hunger strike and he

28:45

was trying to raise voice concerns about

28:47

the, you know, China moving into the

28:50

state, Indian country and they have,

28:53

I think, moved for four, five kilometers. But

28:55

what would the BSP have as an

28:57

alternative? See, you are not in a

28:59

position to form a government in

29:02

India. Right. So the only

29:04

way that you can bring about any kind

29:06

of change in the

29:08

Dalit community is to join

29:10

up with the least

29:13

problematic party, which

29:15

will help you in forming rules

29:17

and laws. For example, let's say the Congress

29:19

is forming a government in 2024. So

29:25

you can bring about or make laws

29:27

or get your alliance partner to

29:29

make a law which will benefit the Dalit

29:31

or if you align with the BGP, then

29:33

laws can be done. I

29:38

think Ma'am has right

29:41

now mentioned that In

29:53

the last slide, we would

29:56

support the alliance partner but

29:58

not take. The vision in the

30:01

government of the same we will dig physician

30:03

the government in a what we can for

30:05

of people. Yes said. This is that a letter

30:07

to say that you know how. Because

30:10

of this all you know staying

30:12

very very adamant on certain decisions

30:15

which she digs. She has slowly

30:17

become redundant to the processes that

30:19

are happening. In order for these

30:22

to the political processes it seems

30:24

like Milo did, He has gotten

30:26

herself off very difficult. To abroad

30:29

people on think him milk. Being able

30:31

to see this hum on said bob negroes

30:33

that they have it was going mediator or

30:35

Dagwood Beach Beach or laws out that once

30:37

about the near but they'll be medieval my

30:39

i'm at my with these equal but dying

30:41

he began a so you know. That

30:44

becomes an issue with maladies is a

30:46

with ten years back she was an

30:48

approachable person. Now she literally carter said

30:50

fall from everything ne I don't think

30:52

so. That's. True I think are

30:54

produced the nuggets that he go mode

30:57

to her Luca what Will Us Up

30:59

by Lisa alleges of for example as

31:01

he didn't listen to him though and

31:03

I would say people who are below

31:06

thirty five or this in the good

31:08

times of Manzi. Ah so somebody

31:10

was thirty five to deal forty years to

31:12

to forty years old. Today you must have

31:15

menard eighteen to twenty five year old young

31:17

type of. And to those and seven government

31:19

was formed so he seemed the good days

31:21

of the Hindi. Or has not

31:23

seen the struggles of Benji or

31:26

Vsp skill and we will fighting

31:28

of for for political power. I've seen

31:30

the void guest house incident yeah I

31:32

have seen like a say to me

31:34

how she fights yeah I have also

31:36

seen how see me is used to

31:38

make that inroads rocky been not have

31:40

various. People are not that. Yes, But then

31:42

suddenly he says of the. Not.

31:44

so what what has happened is that

31:46

people some people i'm not saying all

31:49

of it's a lot of people have

31:51

started feeling that i should be able

31:53

to talk to my nita on an

31:56

instant be says yes is a minute

31:58

dm got our nato instagram Facebook

32:00

page or maybe Java Baja. Right.

32:02

I think I

32:05

think you know, you just show up at the

32:07

door and she'll be available because she's

32:18

not just looking after you. She's

32:20

looking after the complete country. He

32:22

was very available. I mean, Constitution

32:24

Club was available. Right.

32:32

For a person like me who didn't understand caste

32:39

politics, he very easily,

32:41

he was available and very nicely

32:44

he would explain. Correct. But myavatiji

32:46

should be there for this new

32:48

generation or the new

32:50

style of politics. No. I think

32:53

the time that she spends

32:55

is more on strategy, more

32:57

on managing and formulating

33:00

how the party is going to weather

33:02

these tough times. I think

33:05

one person cannot do it

33:07

all. There

33:10

were two factors or two faces

33:12

to the party. Mahinji was

33:14

taking care of one part of the party

33:16

and Manewar Sah was taking care of

33:19

the other part. I think we

33:23

will miss this. But Mahinji has been able to, I think, by virtue

33:30

of putting me up front and giving

33:32

me the liberty to speak to the

33:35

people, to the media. I think it's

33:37

her way of saying or showing that

33:40

she's available. You can get your message across

33:42

and we are listening. We are listening to

33:44

our people. Let me get to that naughty

33:47

relationship, not in the sense, K-N-O-T. There

33:50

are so many nots

33:54

to this relationship between the BSP and

33:56

the SP. She used to

33:58

tie Rakhi to Malayam Singh Ji. And

34:00

an Achilles used to call her booya

34:02

and mural. it was all that's about.

34:04

It is stretched and become so

34:07

difficult. Oh give will give a

34:09

bloody get the the week sarcasm

34:11

say he says it's a slew.

34:13

Vetted That relationship became so difficult.

34:16

Get A Boot! Jordan He said that Gabi

34:18

thought any dose of the. Group. It

34:20

a listen sub the could I would the edge of commitment food

34:22

in he could put them. On robe I

34:24

think of a little known as

34:26

of Monday at those Be One

34:28

opponents are you as a woman?

34:30

I'm Cindy. Oh. I'm not

34:33

talking about him as a politician, I'm

34:35

not commenting on him as a politician

34:37

notice policies, I'm just commenting on that

34:39

elicits a relationship that he's had a

34:42

with Benji. It's a love

34:44

hate relationship for gonna get

34:46

her on a stage. be

34:48

arcade was Kumasi be the

34:50

reason? Ah. But.

34:54

As it up to date him and as it

34:56

may others oh man I'm cindy as at odds

34:58

with the the muslims who but the music going

35:00

on with the war would be been a bit

35:02

of that needs that Ada would get. it may

35:04

be a malignant maybe se he at least gk.

35:07

The other will but the music getting it

35:09

to quibble destiny got a gun bans in

35:11

he but that's getting the yamato some us

35:14

inhibited escondida I think will but the message

35:16

on on a good idea. ah commitments be

35:18

one of the he gave won't I think

35:20

as of you know led to the relationship

35:22

being so difficult Now. Has he shut the

35:25

door on him? A political

35:27

political scares me. There's

35:29

never a closed doors.

35:32

Is. The Multan them and he bought.

35:34

That isn't the answer though. Time

35:37

Lansing in the key Samajwadi party

35:39

athletic is a majority party. Yeah

35:41

yeah Phaedra know in the movie

35:43

Jiechi Media behavior Sonia Gandhi, Gg

35:45

Congress it or that how may

35:47

to happy we mock a leg

35:49

up ni said carbon Annika to

35:52

Hum Investments it was getting doing

35:54

fever talking about the dalits amount

35:56

of. why have you had

35:58

an abrasive relationship with Chandrasekhar Azad

36:00

in one interview

36:03

you even referred to him as Chudwaiya. Categorically,

36:30

the characteristics define what

36:32

Chamcha actually means and

36:36

how are they propped up by

36:38

opposing parties? What

36:40

their traits are and

36:43

what their intention is?

37:30

Clipping on your What's

37:39

down here is that all women meaning your

37:41

delegate don't use the hashtagishing podcast as

37:44

their mission. So

37:46

they don't hate against you, just tell them about

37:48

just the context in which you are not who

37:50

you think is you have been

37:53

actually concerned about. We haven't

37:55

left our village nor our village.

38:30

such people aren't getting a transfer of their children to

38:32

Seoul when they are walking on

38:34

their own. We want more than 2 million people

38:36

who might get the same discrimination

38:47

rights as their comics. We

38:52

want more than 2 million people who are in the

38:55

same way. So

38:59

you know the Samaj that

39:01

you represent, the Dalit Samaj that

39:03

has faced the most oppression under

39:10

the caste system. But

39:13

when comments

39:16

from the DMK come

39:19

from Malaria, Denghi, Sanatan,

39:21

and Khatam. I

39:25

saw that Mayawati Ji did not support that

39:27

kind of comment. It is still astounding

39:29

that it is called Qal prosperous teрac

39:31

Dug the Trans LMJ800-installed photograph.

39:35

But this is just like many

39:37

of the stories. Weik

39:40

themode this way all to the Muslim

39:42

religion has been there. We

39:47

will leave here when we are so tall and

39:50

except Christianity. For

39:52

the longest time the

39:54

whole world suffered

39:56

under Christianity. But there are so many good

39:59

and beautiful things. section , man is seen , gentlemen

40:02

is seen being said , stupid it

40:07

is not everyone's situation it

40:14

is a religion and coming is

40:16

less. it

40:19

is ad hoc tople Guardians countries believe

40:22

me you , I should not be Ever whipping

40:24

our teachers across world we

40:29

have a very open mindset towards

40:31

all religion all communities and

40:33

we feel we actually want

40:36

to develop a country which is so to

40:40

say equitably just

40:43

to all. okay, myaavatiji didn't

40:45

attend the pranpratishta but then when there

40:48

was talk that with the ayodhya temple

40:50

will be built and there will be

40:52

a mosque she was supportive of both

40:55

but why is it that she didn't attend

40:57

the pranpratishta It was because of her

40:59

power herself but

41:03

why was it done after the pranpratishta

41:06

there was a post officials

41:08

at political parties another state

41:11

should notjoin the Strad intrigued the

41:14

co-ilitationist who had beenulpli Toned and

41:17

she Steve Sarah also

41:19

spoke about the total poverty the

41:21

first repel the

41:25

political religion used for political purposes is

41:30

that for you also? it

41:34

is not just myamatichi, it is for you also it is

41:36

a party guideline my party is not for you

41:39

it is not for you because

41:41

we feel that religion

41:43

is one thing it is not

41:46

for us it is not for us

41:49

but for me, it is not for me it is

41:52

for me it is for

41:54

me it is for me political

42:00

reporter, I have been to her

42:02

rallies to understand, you

42:05

know, because when

42:07

she speaks and I've seen her rally not

42:09

just in Uttar Pradesh, I've been to her

42:11

rally in Karnataka also. Right. And

42:14

my thing was that she's speaking in Hindi and

42:16

she's speaking from a written matter. So,

42:18

she's speaking in Hindi and she's speaking in Hindi

42:20

and she's speaking a written thing. What

42:39

is your connect with Mahavati? You can't even understand what

42:41

she's speaking. So,

42:44

they said she's from our community. She's

42:47

from Devadalits and they felt one.

42:50

Mind you, Devagology is not from the

42:52

Dalitsamaj, but they felt that

42:54

oneness with Mahavati Ji. And at that time,

42:56

I remember writing an article that she

42:59

can become a pan-India leader, but she

43:01

didn't rise up to that Akash. But

43:03

by the time, you

43:05

know, the party of Karnataka

43:07

foundation set, it came to a

43:10

junction that the

43:27

state of Karnataka was founded.

43:35

So, Bhehenji took over UP and

43:37

she established a state government there.

43:40

Unfortunately, Manivasaha passed away during

43:42

this time. I

44:00

think that for me, I used to think that for my

44:02

generation, she will be like the Jagjeevandra. You

44:11

know, that he could not become a

44:13

national leader in that way. India

44:16

was not yet ready. He became

44:18

a defence minister. But still, for

44:20

me, I thought in my generation, I

44:23

will see Myavati Ji much more ahead

44:25

politically than she has become. So, I can

44:27

hold on to that thought that is going to happen.

44:29

Give us some time. Right.

44:31

Akash, just before going, I have one more question.

44:35

I want to ask you two

44:37

questions. Actually, one, why no

44:39

manifesto for 2024? And

44:42

the other one is that she has said

44:44

that Uttar Pradesh needs to have

44:46

a separate Western Uttar Pradesh. Why

44:49

that? Why the need? The

44:52

first is on manifesto. The Burjansamah

44:54

party has never released a manifesto. We

44:57

have given a track record. And we

44:59

feel that what we talk about

45:01

is, we have given a track record. We

45:04

have given a large scale of music

45:06

to implement. We have developed it. So,

45:08

giving the country's first public-private

45:12

partnership a highway

45:14

of world class

45:17

highway. Whether it was bringing

45:19

international sports to the country, first

45:21

time, F1 race was held in UP,

45:23

Greater Noida, building up that,

45:26

cultivating a sports culture of that nature. Employment,

45:29

so whether it is filling

45:31

backlog jobs that are

45:34

vacant in the government sector. So,

45:36

I think currently, nationally, there is

45:38

30 lakh plus government

45:42

jobs which are vacant. And this

45:44

government has not been able to fill. During

45:46

her tenure, the first thing she did was, I

45:48

think, filled about 6, 7 odd lakhs. That

45:51

were vacant in UP at the time. So, we

45:53

are quite confident that we will be able to

45:55

fill the gap. So, I think That

45:57

the... Rebuilding

46:00

the infrastructure off. Or

46:03

the that the state and the

46:05

country saw healthcare becomes a priority

46:08

for us. Ah rodent for such

46:10

a is a priority for us.

46:12

Our safety and security line orders

46:14

have played the for us so

46:16

this is odd manifesto most of

46:18

what we have done we have

46:20

given a duvet airport so pretty

46:22

funny story. ah the February but

46:25

international bird was actually of brainchild

46:27

and was actually executed by Vsp

46:29

government would. During vans easily and

46:31

that was what Congress is at

46:33

that The Ah sent to me

46:35

when or name is project goal

46:37

of the comedies have gotten the

46:39

he gave of that was a

46:42

says block at a com didn't

46:44

bust the file or edward authority

46:46

of India did not give of

46:48

approval on that or. Whether

46:51

it was yard from greater Noida

46:53

to Og dog or to you

46:55

know connecting all the way to

46:57

be hot war while a blueprint

46:59

be mans you get the overhead

47:01

metro was also getting banshees same

47:03

Ah so all these work know

47:05

all this development work over there

47:07

is unemployment development ah road infrastructure

47:10

connectivity ah has get all these

47:12

things are going to be part

47:14

of the most so dizzy. Non.

47:16

Manifesto that we don't have to. And

47:18

Wesson with of the this as a separate state

47:21

so ma'am and. Actually requested or would have

47:23

a proves that proposal for God dividing

47:25

the seat and for not just to

47:27

at the moment like she's proposing to

47:29

at the moment by Norman shot the

47:32

proposal the at us ah because it's

47:34

it's the largest state in the country

47:36

with the highest population ah for one

47:38

chief minister much to manage on one

47:40

governing body to manage such a large

47:43

a. Land area as

47:45

a list of listen com is very difficult

47:47

Managing a mint in In Law and Order

47:49

be the she's done it once. See you

47:51

think. you'll get it cannot does not delivering

47:53

how is he delivering them and nagata awkward or

47:55

bosque a number of instead the kiddy art was

47:57

a give our lord yeah institutes

48:00

or colleges privately. So,

48:03

I think that's why I'm not going to do this. I think

48:05

that's why I'm not going to do this. So,

48:08

I think that's why I'm not going to do this. So,

48:11

I think that's a challenge. If you read

48:14

the National Crime Bureau

48:16

report, organized crime in the

48:18

country is on the rise. UP

48:21

is leading that. 30%

48:24

jump year on year in that organized

48:26

crime. And mind you,

48:28

organized crime requires planning and support. You

48:31

told the bulldozer Baba that

48:34

Mafias are so scared of him that

48:37

they dare not do anything because he's

48:39

a bulldozer. He's a

48:41

bulldozer. He's a bulldozer. He's

48:45

a bulldozer. He's a bulldozer. He's

48:47

a bulldozer. He's a

48:49

bulldozer. He's

48:51

a bulldozer. He's a bulldozer.

48:54

He's a bulldozer. So,

48:57

I think that propaganda is going to be

48:59

difficult. It's not going to happen. But

49:02

it will be an on-ground execution.

49:05

So, I think that's why I'm not going to do

49:07

this. Exactly what I'm

49:09

talking about. What

49:12

I'm talking about is exactly what I'm talking about.

49:14

What I'm talking about is hospitals. What

49:16

I'm talking about is colleges. What I'm talking about

49:18

is institutes. And what I'm talking about

49:21

is teachers. What I'm

49:23

talking about is employment. I'm talking about the

49:26

cost politics. I'm

49:28

talking about national level pay. I'm talking about

49:30

time pay. This is not a

49:34

Vidhant Sabha election. This is a Lok Sabha

49:36

election. And the country is voting. The youth

49:38

wants to know where is employment opportunity. For

49:40

me, I'm not a BJP.

49:42

I'm not a BJP. I'm not

49:45

a free Russian. I'm not

49:47

a free Russian. I'm

49:49

not a free Russian. I'm

49:52

not a free Russian. I'm

49:54

not a free Russian. I'm

49:56

not a free Russian. I'm not free. This

49:59

is not a free Russian. Yeah, you'll need you

50:01

to the body toward the deal with

50:03

those gathered here when got, but it's

50:05

going to be asleep in. Oh what's

50:07

that for this for the Bjp people

50:09

are saying. People. Are seeing

50:11

a whole lot of things will do

50:13

you because they gave world rom do

50:16

with the hum lae gay adobe of

50:18

on one able to move on from

50:20

in saw no. Among one really

50:22

guilty get an uncommon deal said they thought

50:24

me. About one couple, Emily,

50:27

Gail. To. With june august

50:29

he but diggers at them which are some oligarchs of

50:31

will a what did the seat and he behind you

50:33

will building a good the elderly get more Dcm with

50:35

easy to get into. The. Acquitted we would think

50:37

to. Be as the you give me

50:40

feedback if you think is. But and

50:42

I'm seeing this that is a sponsor.

50:44

William Ah disequilibrium lack empathy see delaying

50:46

his videos responsible ah local summers Nancy

50:48

Gaffney up a little bit on permanent

50:51

good local of new body some job

50:53

when it but I can gather vanilla

50:55

loon kill you or of Cuba's for

50:57

local butcher them to walk the upkeep

50:59

policies of the thought process that could

51:01

not lane got the let them decide

51:04

little village I saw. This is not

51:06

your go to knock us a cast.

51:08

Elyria. Bows and so much more of

51:10

us by the Iraq i don't know,

51:13

Galea vote and so much particularly those

51:15

at all. this silly gave sad annual

51:17

elections is the goal it's We're trying

51:19

to a on grown more blaze people

51:22

across all communities and we're hoping that

51:24

will be in a position where we

51:26

can leverage us a number of seats

51:29

in order to put Ma'am in in

51:31

the parliament as. A prime minister the same

51:33

it said. Okay of suu that's

51:35

a that's a daughter asked from your

51:37

party and from I have a D

51:39

V but all the best are hoping

51:41

that does. You don't get bogged down

51:43

by the criticism that you're a nap.

51:45

Okay that's go to come your way.

51:49

Up to work on the ground and I'm

51:51

sure that. You'd be able to earn

51:53

you know challenge that. Tagged. I

51:55

hope so too Have s aren't some

51:57

eggs you thank you. Thank. You

51:59

for what? or listening to this edition of the

52:01

ANR Podcast with Smitha Prakash. Do write

52:04

in with your suggestions. Namaste. Jai Hinn.