0:00

Hey everyone! In today's

0:02

Flashback episode I'm joined by one

0:05

of the funniest people on the planet. Here's

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Amy Schumer.

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Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to

0:13

Unqualified with your host,

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Anna Faris.

0:27

Are you in New York, Amy? Yeah,

0:29

are you? No, we're in Los Angeles. We

0:32

have three children on online learning right

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now so it's like, I don't know. Like

0:36

just super easy and like peaceful? Yeah.

0:39

You should see the kitchen. Oh

0:41

yeah. Just wait till you see the kitchen.

0:43

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we just had no

0:45

child care for three days so that was really fun

0:47

and our marriage is at a really good place.

0:49

We're at an all-time high.

0:52

Gene is a year and two months? Three

0:54

months? Yeah, he's a year and a half.

0:57

His birthday's May 5th. I don't know how many

0:59

months he is. That's the kind of mother I am. Me too.

1:02

You know what's sad? I put makeup on. Me

1:04

too. You know, like I put makeup on, I blow-dried my hair,

1:07

but now I'm looking at myself and you know whenever I

1:09

get photographed they write like, no makeup and I'm always

1:11

like, I was wearing a lot of makeup. So

1:13

I don't know where it went but I just want you to know I

1:16

respect this show and I love

1:18

you. I love you, Amy. I love you. I just need to say

1:22

you have been such a huge part of

1:25

my inspiration. Just how funny

1:27

and from the second you were in films

1:29

I was like, wow. Like that just opened

1:32

my mind to a whole other level like

1:34

of how funny women can be. Thank you.

1:36

That's really the truth. I just, oh my

1:38

god, I just think that you're so funny

1:41

and I just have to get that out of the way. Oh god,

1:43

I said too much too fast. Thank you, Amy. No,

1:46

no, no. No, no. I'm going in. I'm going

1:48

in. I feel unsafe. You intimidate

1:50

me. No. No. No, no, no.

1:53

I mean that as a very high compliment because

1:55

I admire you so

1:57

much. So nice. No,

1:59

please don't be a intimidated. This is a long time

2:01

coming. I just feel like you and I are destined for

2:03

friendship. I would love that. Yeah.

2:06

I also regret wearing this shirt. I just have

2:08

to say because I'm all one color. Yeah,

2:10

I'm looking at my hair,

2:11

which might need to be colored soon.

2:14

My fiancé is a DP. Oh!

2:17

But he also does my hair. He's been bleaching

2:19

my hair during quarantine. Okay,

2:21

that's the ultimate. It looks really good.

2:24

Thanks. We've been using like the L'Oreal kits.

2:26

Yeah. You know? Yeah. So Amy, we

2:28

finished expecting Amy. My fiancé

2:30

and I looked at each other and we were like, maybe

2:33

we should do this. We should have a baby together. Oh,

2:35

good! Of course, you didn't make their pregnancy

2:37

itself seem quite as appealing.

2:40

I was really nervous about putting this out because I was

2:42

scared that it would discourage people from

2:44

getting pregnant or especially for the first time because

2:47

the possibility like that you could get that sick.

2:49

I was honestly scared that I was going to affect the population

2:51

in the other way. So I'm happy to hear you say

2:54

that, really. You know, oh, God.

2:56

I mean, the journey that you fucking went through. So

2:58

when I had Jack, I was a geriatric

3:01

mom because I was 35. It

3:03

was my first pregnancy. Things were great. I

3:06

felt great. I wasn't sick. I felt

3:08

bored and like, you know,

3:11

sleepy and a little rainfall. But that was nice.

3:13

I couldn't handle that. But then he came at 21

3:15

weeks. No, 31 weeks. I

3:17

didn't know that.

3:18

My God. Oh my God!

3:21

He came out with no limbs. I'm

3:23

like...

3:24

No, I gave birth to a three pound baby. So...

3:27

Oh, oh. Yeah, he came at 31 weeks. Like

3:29

my water broke in the middle of the night. I was

3:31

naive enough to think like I

3:33

smelled like the wetness. I was hoping that

3:35

it was pee. As we all do. Yeah. Yeah.

3:38

And we called the doctor like three in the morning

3:40

and she was like, you need to go to the hospital right now in a very

3:42

calm voice. And I was so

3:44

confused. I was like, okay. And in my head, I

3:46

thought, well, maybe they'll just put some more fluid

3:49

in me. Right. And kind of stitch me up

3:51

and send me home. Yeah. And you know, when

3:53

I got there, they were like, no, you're staying here until

3:56

this baby comes out. And so I was on bed rest for

3:58

a week and then they wanted me to... on

4:00

bed rest for as long as I could so the baby could you

4:02

know incubate but then when I had

4:05

the baby I did eventually get an epidural

4:07

but I remember thinking do

4:09

not forget this pain because

4:11

you will forget it and then you're probably

4:13

gonna want to do it again something stupid

4:16

like that. Right, right. You went

4:18

through IVF. Yeah. Are those memories

4:20

sharp? So you're totally right. No

4:23

everyone says you're gonna get amnesia and they laughed

4:25

at me the whole time because I was like I will never

4:27

be pregnant again this is such a nightmare and

4:30

everyone's like I'll see you for your next baby

4:32

and I'm like you're high this is

4:34

it and then absolutely have

4:37

full amnesia thank God I have that

4:39

documentary because other than that you just go

4:41

like oh they're so joyful like I want

4:44

another one so you know I had Jean

4:46

when I was 37 and so yeah they're just like

4:48

here's your Walker and like your dentures

4:50

because you're an elderly woman having a baby and

4:52

you're like thank you you know so we went through

4:55

IVF because I was like we're considering surrogacy

4:58

because you're like I want to have a sibling

5:01

and so IVF was equally

5:03

well not equally awful for me but my

5:05

body really reacted poorly to IVF

5:08

but we got a couple embryos so we don't

5:10

know you know with the pandemic we're like everything's

5:12

kind of just on hold Amy can I have one

5:14

you can have an embryo no I don't have like a million embryos

5:17

like we have one normal one and then we have two

5:19

mosaics I'll have a mosaic you'll take

5:21

a mosaic okay great perfect so

5:23

I'll just invoice you for like a mosaic

5:26

so oh I have to pay for it it's honestly

5:28

nothing it's too million dollars and then you'll just

5:30

have Chris and my child is that

5:32

okay yeah I might have to get on to another

5:35

long-running sicko that's fine

5:37

that's fine you're gonna book it no but

5:39

I for my safety cannot be pregnant

5:41

again one in three mothers with hyperemesis

5:44

what I had one in three babies don't make it so

5:46

I really don't like those odds

5:48

yeah like just because you're vomiting so much you can't nourish

5:51

the baby or yourself so my pregnancy

5:53

was a huge bummer my doctor told me that if

5:55

I got pregnant again that I would most likely have to be on bed

5:57

rest the whole time but what did you do

5:59

the week you are on bed rest. Like what do you do?

6:02

You watch TV? You just sleep? Yeah,

6:04

and I couldn't shower. I was

6:07

able to go to the bathroom, but that was it.

6:09

I was nervous, but everyone

6:11

was so great. And I was still in a very

6:13

much of a foggy, surreal state,

6:15

which is kind of how I felt the whole pregnancy. Yeah,

6:17

it's an out of body thing. Yeah.

6:20

And I was about to say I've never been a nurturer,

6:22

but I don't think that's quite accurate. I live

6:24

a selfish life, I think. As

6:26

a performer, you got to take care of yourself to

6:29

do your thing. I don't know if I take care of myself.

6:32

You're like, I also don't nurture myself. Thank you.

6:35

Were you happy that you were having a boy? No,

6:38

I just thought I'm definitely having a girl.

6:40

Really? Oh yeah, no question. I was like, having

6:42

a girl and like, that's going to be really hard because

6:44

life's hard for a woman. But, and when I found

6:47

out it was a boy, I was like really surprised.

6:50

And like, I kind of pretended like I was happy, but

6:52

it was not during the height of the Me

6:54

Too movement, but my eyes were set on we

6:56

have to break down the patriarchy and

6:59

this white male dominated world.

7:01

And then my mind went right there like, Oh my God, I'm bringing

7:03

another white man into this awful world.

7:06

But then I kind of felt relieved that

7:08

I was having a boy because it's

7:11

just harder for women and hardest

7:13

for marginalized people. But then,

7:15

you know, once I met him, I just could

7:17

not be more in love with him. How about you?

7:19

Were you excited? I was thrilled and I felt like

7:22

I was having a boy. I've talked about this on the

7:24

podcast before Amy, I have an awkwardness

7:26

with women. I don't know if it's because I don't have a

7:29

sister and I grew up a pretty quiet

7:31

lonely kid. And so

7:34

female relationships sometimes feel very elusive

7:36

to me. Oh, interesting. I've

7:38

like maybe two really good girlfriends.

7:40

Right. But it's hard for me just in

7:43

general to cultivate female

7:45

friendships. Sometimes. Interesting.

7:47

I wish it felt easier to me and

7:50

I get much more nervous on the podcast

7:52

talking to women. It helps to admit

7:54

that at 44. Yeah. Yeah.

7:57

Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a lot of

7:59

close friends. Like I have two people

8:01

I consider my best friends, two girlfriends, and

8:04

then I'm friends with five of the girls that I grew up

8:06

with. They're all moms now, we text and we

8:08

joke, but that's it. You know, I don't think, sorry,

8:10

my nose is running. Amy does

8:12

cocaine, but I've never had, I've never

8:15

done cocaine, but I want to do it today on the podcast.

8:17

Good. But that's interesting. What

8:20

were your friendships like when you were like, I'm

8:22

really interested in this. Like I'm making a scripted show about

8:24

it. Just like what happens when you're like 12,

8:27

like around that age. I feel like it sets up your DNA

8:29

for me anyway. It's like, were there some

8:31

things where you like a really pretty

8:34

kid? No. No. So

8:36

it wasn't like girls were mean to you because they were jealous kind of thing. No, not

8:38

at all. No. So what were those like

8:40

early friendships like? Very intense, almost

8:43

like love. And there would be

8:45

one person and then if that person

8:47

found another friend, I was heartbroken.

8:50

Oh, wow. Yeah. Like I really

8:52

related to Anna Green Gables and

8:55

her love for Diana. Yeah.

8:59

And left me feeling very vulnerable, I guess.

9:01

Yeah. Around that age, if there's a trio

9:04

of friendship, I felt like I was kind of the one

9:06

that usually got booted.

9:09

Right. In a cruel manner. Oh,

9:11

yeah. That's the dynamic. I feel

9:14

like we all know and like even my friend's daughter

9:16

who's that age, like her friends just booted

9:18

her and I'm like, oh, I remember getting the boot.

9:21

It's just, and it's like, it's nothing. But

9:23

at the time it just feels like the world is ending.

9:26

Yeah. There's so much to navigate and we're

9:28

white. I know. You know, it's like

9:30

for us growing up felt almost impossible.

9:33

My best friend, this like unicorn

9:36

of a girl. Yeah. And

9:38

cool. And but she had a wild imagination, which

9:40

I loved about her. And

9:42

she wrote, fuck you bitch on my locker

9:45

one day. I know.

9:47

I was like, I didn't know what to do.

9:50

Yeah. That's a life changer. There's

9:52

no way that that can't affect you. There's

9:54

just no way. Like you really feel like

9:57

you can't trust people. I mean, there's like a lot of reasons that you probably can't

9:59

trust people. Also, you're famous,

10:01

so you've been famous for like, what, 15 years? And

10:04

then that comes with a different level of like, what

10:06

does this person want? So I think your sort of like

10:08

trust issues and your vulnerability are earned. They sound

10:10

pretty earned, but you should still try to

10:13

shake them. But it's

10:15

hard to make friends when you're older. It's just like, it has

10:17

to be somebody that you really want to connect with, which

10:19

is why I think we should become really good friends. I would

10:21

love that. I think you could help. Okay.

10:23

It's done. It's done. And also like, I've been

10:25

listening to this other, not to bring up another podcast

10:28

on your podcast, but this podcast called Pooh.

10:30

Mm-hmm. You know Jacqueline Novak and Caperlant.

10:33

They are so funny. Yes, I do. Yeah, you do.

10:35

Right. Jacqueline Novak had that show Get On Your Knees and

10:37

Caperlant does a lot of stuff with John Early. I

10:39

love John Early. What's it called again, Amy?

10:42

Poop backwards. It's Poop. That's

10:45

hysterical. It's really fun. Okay. And

10:47

it's like, you'll listen to it and you'll be like, I want

10:49

to be friends with these girls and I feel like I already am. I'm

10:51

going to check that out. Yeah. Can I ask you

10:53

a whole series of questions? Do

10:56

it. Anything. All right. We'll start out

10:58

a little bit easy in your special.

11:00

What happened with the lamb heart? Oh,

11:03

was there a lamb heart on the counter? There was a

11:05

brief shot of a lamb heart and

11:08

Chris says that you were not supposed to see

11:10

that. Right. And I really like to

11:12

cook. I'm very much an amateur. I'm

11:15

very curious. Yeah. I like the idea

11:17

of using an entire animal if you're going to eat

11:19

it. Yes. Yes. But however,

11:22

I don't know what you would do or where you would purchase

11:24

a lamb heart. What you would do with a heart. I don't

11:26

know what happened with that specific heart,

11:28

but he does sometimes cook, I think beef

11:31

hearts and I will eat it and it's good. Will

11:33

you get back to our listeners regarding the lamb

11:35

heart? Yes, I will. I will

11:37

get back as soon as possible. I'll

11:39

send my team, but Chris,

11:41

you know, he always has something like upsetting looking

11:44

in the kitchen. He has a totally different relationship

11:46

to food and farming and processing

11:48

animals than I will ever understand. But

11:51

it does seem like a very humane way

11:53

that they do it. And then, yeah, truly using the

11:55

whole animal. I completely support

11:57

them. Yeah. Okay,

12:00

so I want to ask you these broad questions,

12:02

like things like how his motherhood changed

12:04

you, or the quarantine experience. That's

12:07

great. Just want to tell you the plan, Amy.

12:09

Walk me through the plan, I'm ready. Okay,

12:11

let me start out with actually stand up, if you

12:14

don't mind. Let's do it. What three descriptive

12:16

adjectives could you use to kind of lump

12:19

all stand up comedians together? That's

12:21

a definite valid question. I think you could probably

12:23

answer it just as well as I could. I would

12:25

say tormented, insecure,

12:28

and controlling. That's

12:31

not a very flattering thing, but I do think that

12:33

all the stand ups I know, except for Jerry Seinfeld,

12:35

they all had a really hard time

12:38

growing up and learned

12:40

through making people laugh that they could kind of help

12:42

people feel better and help themselves feel

12:44

better. That's really every stand up

12:46

I know. What about you? What do you think?

12:48

Well, I've never done stand up. I mean, Amy. But you know

12:50

stand ups, you know? I do, and

12:53

I love them. Stand ups,

12:55

although I don't perceive you to be this way when they're on

12:57

the podcast, I think they're the most entertaining

13:00

guests, but they can be very distant.

13:03

They're afraid of being vulnerable because they want

13:05

to control everything, which I think is a reason that

13:07

a lot of people get into stand up. And I think it's

13:09

a really limiting way as an artist

13:11

to work. I think hopefully you are evolving

13:14

toward vulnerability and your

13:16

own evolution. That's what I think. Because

13:19

I don't want to see a stand up do the same thing

13:21

for 20 years. I want them to evolve

13:23

as an artist and I want to go along for

13:25

the ride with them. Like, Amy, not to put you on

13:27

the spot with this, but how would you describe your evolution?

13:30

Well, I started when I was like 23 or

13:32

something like that. So I'm just trying

13:34

to make people laugh and figuring it out. And

13:37

you know, I always talk about this book by Isabel

13:39

Wilkerson, this book Cast. And

13:41

it just talks about how we really don't learn our history

13:44

in this country. Who is it by? Isabel

13:46

Wilkerson. Isabel. Yeah, it's called

13:49

Cast, Cast with an E at the end. And it

13:51

points out that we're living in like a silent

13:53

cast system where really white people are

13:55

the dominant cast

13:56

and really everyone else is treated as a subordinate

13:59

cast. And even-

13:59

Even though people are like, I'm not racist, I'm not racist.

14:02

You don't have to be racist to be raised in

14:05

a society that thinks white people are

14:07

superior to black people. And that is how I

14:09

feel like I grew up. I had black friends.

14:12

I loved growing up in New York, being around

14:15

a diverse group of people, but there was that

14:17

feeling. That's something that I've had to

14:19

educate myself and undo. And I think

14:21

a lot of us don't even know that the system's

14:23

right under our noses. So as a comedian, I'm

14:25

starting out and I would say a joke, like, I don't know what

14:27

the punch line was, but the joke was something

14:30

about how black people can't swim. And I

14:32

played like a character in my standup, like who would say

14:34

really dumb, like kind of

14:35

racist, like irreverent things.

14:37

And then it's like, well, the joke about black

14:39

people can't swim, it's like, well, that's

14:41

because they weren't allowed in pools. And

14:43

a boy in, I think, Michigan, like,

14:46

because, you know, they used to separate. Here's where the

14:48

black people can swim. Here's where the white people can swim. And

14:50

a boy was just waiting. He put his foot

14:52

in what was considered the white water was stoned

14:55

to death. You know, a little boy playing little league,

14:57

he's the only black boy on his team, won the little

14:59

league championship. They go to the pool, he's not allowed

15:02

in, he has to sit outside the fence and

15:03

they bring him snacks. And eventually the lifeguard

15:05

lets him go in and pushes him around the float and everybody

15:07

else

15:07

has to get out of the water. So there's a really

15:10

dark history there. So, you know, as I'm

15:12

like educating myself, I'm evolving

15:14

and trying to keep myself just open

15:16

to the fact that I have a lot of room to grow. And what's

15:18

really helpful with being sort of an ally to

15:21

black and brown people is to just be like, just tell me

15:23

when I fuck up because you will. And

15:25

it's really hard to be like, there's

15:27

nothing more annoying than like a woke white woman, but

15:29

we can't let anything slow us down from trying to

15:31

be the best ally that we can. And so as

15:34

I'm learning, I'm evolving and trying to be honest

15:36

about it. And my standup has gotten more conversational.

15:39

I'm just, I don't know. I love that answer

15:41

because I think a lot of people might have gone to

15:43

a place of very like, well,

15:45

you know, when I was younger, I would embellish,

15:48

I don't know, I've never been a standup or be a little

15:50

more self-reflective about their specifics.

15:54

I love it that you talk about sort of a more

15:56

socially expansive idea. Yeah,

15:58

might be more about other people. in like the human condition.

16:01

I mean, of course, like being a wife and a

16:03

mother is like gonna affect

16:06

your evolution also, but I'm really trying to stay

16:08

tuned in to like what's going on. In

16:10

your special, it feels like it really

16:12

reminds you of why you love

16:15

stand-up. And you must have had those

16:17

times where you're exhausted. You don't

16:19

wanna do it, perhaps. Yeah. I'm not sure.

16:21

To me, the idea of being a stand-up, the traveling,

16:24

the dizziness of hotel rooms. Yeah.

16:26

And the different temperatures of audiences,

16:30

or maybe even like, you know, and seeing your

16:32

friends on the road. I can't even imagine

16:35

the exhaustion level and the loneliness.

16:37

It's real. It's very real. Can you think

16:39

of a night that stands out that

16:41

really reminds you of, I don't

16:44

know, when you walked off stage and you're like, fuck,

16:46

I love doing this, or is it every night?

16:48

Well, you know, I've only done stand-up once since

16:51

the pandemic hit. I did a show outside

16:54

with John Forte, who I love, who has

16:56

a beautiful album called The Rhythm Drive on

16:58

Spotify. We did a show and

17:01

it was such a treat, but

17:03

I've always been happy to go on stage. I

17:05

mean, not before. I'm not having my period.

17:08

I'm in the, but like, actually the more annoyed you

17:10

are you have to go on stage, the sets are probably the best. Really?

17:13

Why? Just cause you've had it and you

17:15

don't care about anything and you just go up and

17:17

you're like kind of in a bad mood and you're just like,

17:19

ugh. And like the audience couldn't feel you just

17:22

not caring and being kind of mad. Just

17:24

winds up

17:24

being so fun.

17:26

But I've never regretted going on

17:28

stage. So I'm always happy

17:30

that I did it. And there are

17:32

so many nights where I've just been like, God, that

17:34

was amazing. And there have just been so many magical

17:37

nights here in

17:37

New York down at the Comedy Cellar. There

17:40

was this

17:40

one night where none of us knew each other

17:42

was coming. Like I may have known that Seinfeld

17:45

was going down there or Chris Rock. I

17:47

don't know. But so it was like, I happened to be there, Rock,

17:50

Chappelle, Seinfeld. I

17:52

can't remember who else, but it was like this crazy

17:54

night where we just all happened to be there. And it was like this show

17:57

and none of us were scheduled to go on and the

17:59

audience was. like, okay, first coming

18:01

up, Jerry Seinfeld, everyone's like, oh, and then it was

18:03

like me and then it was like rock, she fell and

18:05

they were just like, oh, you know, like it was like a,

18:07

I don't know, $15

18:08

show or something like that, like a two drink minimum,

18:11

we

18:11

all went out to eat after and like stayed out

18:13

late and drank and it was just magical.

18:16

What happens when you forget the thread of what

18:18

I was thinking on stage? Yeah. Well,

18:20

I've just learned

18:21

to be very honest. So I would just probably

18:23

say I have no idea what I'm talking

18:25

about right now.

18:26

And I kind of usually poll the audience. I'm like, does

18:28

anyone know what I was just saying? And then

18:30

someone's like, you were talking about your vagina

18:32

and I'm like, okay, thank you. I mean,

18:34

when you're younger, you try to keep it moving and, you

18:36

know, and the audience, you know, when you see

18:39

a comedian and you're like, we don't really trust

18:41

you versus when someone goes up and you feel like,

18:43

okay, it's like held, like they know what they're doing

18:45

is gonna be fun, they can relax. But yeah,

18:47

I mean, everybody still bombs, it keeps you honest,

18:50

you know, like with anything you're working on just to have like

18:52

an off day, it makes you like appreciate

18:55

when it goes well.

18:57

I want to talk a little bit about your relationship with

18:59

Chris. I can really relate and expecting

19:01

Amy when you were hesitant to have Chris

19:04

with you before the show. Yeah, oh, you did.

19:06

Interesting. Oh, completely. Because I think

19:09

the people that are closest to you, you care

19:11

about their opinions so much. And

19:13

you feel their nerves, you absorb

19:15

their anxiety for you because they love

19:18

you. Yeah. And you want to take care of them.

19:20

And you're like not just worried about yourself.

19:22

Yeah. And I also really love

19:24

how you speak about your relationship

19:27

in general. And I wanted to ask

19:29

you about early courtship with this.

19:31

Yeah, fun. So you guys met

19:34

through your assistant. Yeah, his

19:36

sister was my assistant. Yeah, Molly.

19:38

Yeah, she was my assistant. Were you the

19:41

aggressor with Chris? I obviously

19:43

don't know him. But in the special. Yeah, he

19:45

is so wonderful. He seems

19:47

very honest and kind. Yes.

19:50

And loving. Yeah. And

19:53

not manipulative at all. Like,

19:55

no, not at all. Not nothing.

19:58

Nothing like that. That's me.

19:59

Did that confuse you at

20:02

first? Yeah, well, a couple things confused

20:04

me about him. But our courtship,

20:06

I'll tell you exactly how it went down. It was really fun. So

20:09

I was on Martha's Vineyard with my family, which

20:12

I had been going there since I was like I

20:14

went with like an abusive boyfriend when I was like 18

20:16

and fell in love with that island. It's kind

20:18

of the antithesis of the Hamptons in that there's

20:21

nowhere to go. There's nothing to dress up for.

20:23

No one wears makeup. There's no scene. You

20:25

know, it's like very, very relaxed.

20:28

Also, you will 100% most likely get Lyme disease

20:30

if you go. But we needed a chef. You know,

20:33

my family, we were like, Molly was like, my brother's

20:35

a chef. And I'd heard he was a great chef. And

20:37

I was like, great. So he came over and he

20:39

was cooking. And I remember walking in the kitchen, seeing

20:41

him for the first time. And you know, when you're around like

20:43

just your family where you just

20:45

like couldn't look more like shit, you know, like,

20:48

and everyone's saying to you like, you look tired, I just

20:50

couldn't have looked worse. And so what I do

20:52

when I'm like attracted to someone is I

20:55

just rebel against that. And I'm

20:57

so insecure that I'm like, hi, I have to go

20:59

poop because I've had diarrhea today. Just

21:02

I take myself out of the running. You know what I mean? Yes.

21:05

So I did that. I took myself out of the running and I just

21:07

like left the room was like, huh. And then I got to know him.

21:09

And I just thought he was so cute and that he's a chef

21:12

on Martha's Vineyard. And he's a beautiful

21:14

guy dressed cool. And I was just like,

21:16

this guy must have women just clawing

21:18

at him. So I just kind of dismissed him in that way

21:21

and just became friends with him and totally

21:23

platonic. And then he was in New York this

21:25

one week. And I was like, Oh, my best friend's birthday

21:27

for 40th. Will you cook and use again? And

21:30

it was at my place. It's almost like we were throwing a party

21:32

together. And I was like handling

21:34

the drinks and food and it just it felt really natural

21:36

and good. And we had a phone call. Sorry,

21:39

this is like the longest. No, no, no, no. I

21:43

had texted him like the night before something. I asked

21:46

Molly for his number because I was like, I think I'm interested

21:48

in your brother. Like would you be okay

21:50

with that? And she was like, okay. And she just thought we're

21:52

gonna like hook up. So I called him right away. He

21:54

had no idea why I was calling. And he just said,

21:56

Do you think this is a good idea? And I'm like,

21:59

I didn't even. say anything yet. He's like, yeah,

22:01

but I'm assuming you're calling because we obviously

22:03

have a connection. Do you think it's a good idea? And

22:05

I was like, no, probably not. You're right. Like, okay,

22:08

bye. See you tomorrow. And then we were doing this party together.

22:10

And then that night he came up behind me and

22:12

he kissed my neck. I was holding

22:14

like a bone to give the dog.

22:17

You know, I was like walking to my room to give the dog a

22:19

bone. And I'm like holding this bone and we

22:21

like kiss. He kissed your neck before

22:24

you guys kissed. Yeah, that

22:26

is so intimate and romantic. It

22:28

was a very rare moment. And

22:30

then we watched him Arrested Development episodes

22:33

because we both liked it. He read me some

22:35

like a shouts and murmurs that he thought was really

22:37

funny. And we just laughed at the same stuff.

22:39

It was like, this is really easy. And this feels

22:41

really good. And then we had sex immediately.

22:44

Usually I in the past, if I like slept

22:46

with someone, I wouldn't want to sleep in the same room as them.

22:48

I'd be like, okay, cool. And then your room is right

22:51

there. But with Chris, neither of us wanted

22:53

to leave each other. And then just

22:55

from then on, we just wanted to be together. And

22:56

it was pretty easy. I mean, stuff with

22:59

him having ASD can make it a

23:01

little challenging to communicate at times. But

23:03

we've been like just solid partners so

23:05

far. My impression is that

23:08

you have this unmanipulative,

23:10

very devotional relationship that's

23:12

amazing to see. And it made

23:14

me reflect on my relationship because I'm

23:16

engaged to a man he's right there.

23:19

But his love for me is different

23:22

than I've experienced. It's very

23:24

whole. I know what you mean. It feels pure

23:27

without agenda. Yep. And that

23:30

was something that took me a while

23:32

to adjust to because I think

23:35

I had been an immature partner in previous

23:37

relationships. Yeah, I

23:39

do know because it's easy. I mean, I'm projecting

23:42

but like, it just made me laugh at all my previous

23:44

relationships. I just read Cassie David's book,

23:46

which is so funny to tell nobody asked for this. She's

23:49

in her 20s and just like those relationships

23:51

where you're just much younger and you're just like, I hope

23:53

he texts me and I'll text like 1am come

23:56

over or something. You're like, okay, I'm

23:58

dating this guy and he says he's not ready. for me

24:00

to meet his mom yet, but like maybe by New

24:02

Year, you know, just all these allowances when

24:04

you're younger and then you're like, get the fuck out

24:06

of here. Like I'm tired. But we just didn't

24:08

have that. Like we were both just like ready to rock. There

24:11

has been relief in getting older. Hell

24:13

yeah. And maybe it's because our

24:15

brains are melting slowly. So

24:18

death is easier. Good.

24:19

Hurry it up. But

24:23

I think that one of the benefits for me

24:26

is that I think I used to be a much more jealous, competitive

24:28

person without even real. Well, no, I realized

24:31

it, I think, but those are terrible feelings. Oh,

24:33

that sucks. That's the worst feeling. That's the worst.

24:35

That chemical feeling is just so bad.

24:38

Yeah, I don't have that anymore.

24:40

And I'm so grateful. I know.

24:42

Because what a toxic thing to do to yourself.

24:45

Yeah. And I also think I was more competitive in relationships

24:47

too. Uh huh. Interesting. Yeah. Well,

24:49

you know, I was with two actors.

24:52

And of course, in our industry, you can't

24:54

help but compare successes

24:57

and failures and yeah, no

25:00

one's above that. No one's beyond that. I

25:02

would like to be Amy.

25:04

Yeah. I didn't do well with dating people

25:06

in the same industry. I mean, like that to me

25:08

is like the dream, you know, it's like, Oh, it's a

25:10

data comic or whatever, but I didn't have

25:12

success with that. And I feel like

25:14

for me,

25:14

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a performer.

25:17

What's your identity with motherhood?

25:19

I'm only a year and a half in what

25:21

I'm trying to do. And I love that question

25:24

is I realized early in

25:26

a way where unexpectedly I was like, Oh,

25:28

he's already like his own dude. Like

25:30

he's his own person. And I'm just

25:32

here to support his growth, you

25:34

know, and so just really trying to make sure

25:37

that it's not about me. And then I'm focused

25:39

in on him and I'm just trying to navigate it. Like

25:41

we can communicate now a little bit, you

25:43

know, and he knows some signs and he has some words.

25:46

So it's like, he'll start to get really upset and I

25:48

go, well, do you want to take your wagon into

25:50

the living room? And I'm like, yeah, you know,

25:52

it's like, he just wants to communicate.

25:55

And so like early stages of just

25:57

figuring out how to do it and like, okay,

25:59

we're home we're gonna wash our hands. Oh

26:02

can you climb up your own stairs and wash your hands

26:04

like and then celebrating that. Look at

26:06

Gene, he's washing his hands like a big boy. You know seeing

26:09

what's working and what doesn't but it's just trying

26:11

to not take myself too seriously while we navigate

26:13

it and Chris and I mess up so bad that we

26:15

just support each other like if he falls

26:17

or something while he was kind of on Chris's

26:20

watch or in Chris's jurisdictions it's

26:22

my job to be like comfort Chris because

26:24

if I do something you feel so bad

26:27

that you need your partner to be like it's okay

26:29

like shake it off you know cuz he's fine

26:31

and he bounces back but it's like the terror

26:33

of them being hurt is like

26:36

we're trying to have fun and really appreciate it and be

26:38

present. Completely one of the

26:40

irksome things of being pregnant

26:43

is the societal pressure of like don't

26:46

eat the salami. Oh right right right.

26:48

The watchfulness over your

26:50

body which is now a fucking vessel. It's disgusting.

26:53

They weaponize our bodies against us yeah.

26:56

You mentioned breastfeeding and I

26:58

pumped for three months Jack

27:00

because he was early he didn't take to my nipple

27:03

at all. Yeah the old latch word.

27:05

Yeah they latch. Yeah Gene never

27:07

latched. Yeah and you know it was like

27:09

in the hospital and we tried and they would

27:11

have different people come in and it was really

27:13

upsetting. It was really upsetting that he wouldn't

27:16

latch and I felt like a failure

27:18

but I my milk came in and

27:20

I pumped and he drank the bottles it was fine and

27:22

then I think I only pumped for like a month

27:25

and a half two months I'm like reading and

27:27

I'm like god the formula is fine.

27:29

Yeah. And I just took that pressure

27:31

off myself because I did feel that way. Oh god

27:34

when I finally did it I was freedom.

27:36

Yeah you know you get sent home with like

27:38

the end familiar or whatever and it would just

27:40

be haunting me in the cupboard because my

27:42

nipples were like chapped and bloody.

27:45

Yeah. I was just spending all day

27:47

sanitizing tubes and

27:49

shit like that. Oh yeah it's a whole thing

27:51

and you're already dealing with like the depletion

27:54

of hormones. So am I bringing you

27:56

back Amy? No I like it I like it

27:58

it's kind of a beautiful time. It was like

28:00

I couldn't hack it for that long. And once I

28:02

realized I didn't have to, it was so freeing.

28:05

And while I was weaning off of breastfeeding,

28:09

it was just really exciting because I felt like you

28:11

haven't had your own body for

28:13

a really long time. So

28:15

it was exciting to me. I felt really empowered.

28:17

And also the breastfeeding thing, everyone's

28:20

like do your own thing, listen to yourself, whatever,

28:22

but you do feel this pressure. Everyone's telling you

28:24

to breastfeed. And so once I realized, hey, no

28:26

one's watching, no one cares, this

28:28

is about your family and what's best

28:30

for you guys. And so we gave Gene

28:33

formula, Similac, and then somebody

28:35

recommended Holly, have you heard of that one? He

28:38

keeps an order from like Sweden or I don't know, something

28:40

like that. But he did really well with that. But

28:42

that breastfeeding time, all the contraptions

28:44

and cleaning it, it was like a little bit fun

28:47

at times, but mostly you feel

28:49

like a cow. You have to milk yourself. I

28:51

actually, I was about to say that I think I felt like

28:54

I failed my son,

28:56

but I actually didn't really feel that. Good,

28:59

maybe I should have. No, I don't know where

29:01

it came from. It was something I created. I

29:03

just have friends who breastfeed for a long

29:05

time and they're really into it. And

29:08

they didn't put pressure on me, but you just buy osmosis

29:11

can feel that. That's why I shared it. I'm

29:13

like breastfeed if you want, have a C-section

29:15

if you want, do you.

29:19

Okay, Amy, I'm going to ask you some general

29:22

questions and a couple of deal breakers.

29:25

What intimidates you? That's

29:28

a great question. I got the interview

29:30

Isabel Wilkerson on Audible. That

29:32

was really intimidating. I mean, I'm intimidated

29:35

by our circumstances of

29:37

living in a white supremacy, meaning when

29:40

you talk to really well-informed people of

29:42

color, you got to get your white guilt out

29:44

of the way and just be there to help. And that can

29:46

be really intimidating. I think that's an amazing

29:48

answer. Okay, cool, I agree with you. I'm like, does that

29:50

make sense? Yeah, oh, completely.

29:53

What is a trait you dislike in others? I

29:56

like authenticity. So whatever the

29:58

opposite of that is,

29:59

like curious.

29:59

But you know what I mean? Like just people

30:03

not being honest. That's like a major trigger for me.

30:05

I like to talk about what's really going on. And that's

30:08

something that makes a lot of people uncomfortable,

30:10

I think. What's a trait you dislike in yourself?

30:12

Well, actually right now I would say I'm addicted

30:14

to my phone. I watch

30:17

that doc on Netflix, The Social

30:19

Dilemma, which is so good. And it talks about how

30:21

our phones are like basically like slot machines

30:23

that are programmed to get us addicted. Because

30:26

when we look, it's like a slot machine and they want you to look longer.

30:28

That's why now you can like double click a text at heart. They're

30:31

looking for any little ways

30:31

to make us engage more with our phones.

30:34

And so even though I know

30:36

that, I'm still like completely hooked

30:38

and I'm not proud of that. I'm really not

30:40

proud. I think that's a great answer.

30:43

What's your favorite rainy day movie? Ooh,

30:45

like it's raining out like you cozy up.

30:47

Yeah. And watch. Well,

30:50

right now we're watching a lot of Gene like

30:52

Baby Gum and Trash Truck. So those

30:55

are the shows that we're mostly watching on like a rainy

30:57

day. Ooh, if I could just

30:59

settle in this movie, Jesus is Son. I love

31:01

it's old. It's with Billy Crud up and Jack

31:04

Black's in it. Jesus is Son? It's

31:06

called Jesus is Son. It's based on a Dennis Johnson

31:08

novel. Is it a comedy? It is. It

31:11

has nothing to do with Jesus. All right. No,

31:13

Jesus is Son. It's a really fun movie. I

31:15

think you'd really like it. All right. I'm putting

31:17

it down. I love all these recommendations. Okay,

31:19

good. What's the skill that you

31:21

would like to acquire? Unrealistically,

31:25

I'd love to be able to play an instrument. Which

31:28

one? I don't know. Like the piano.

31:32

I guess I could like learn how to play the piano, but I

31:34

just wish I already knew. I bought

31:36

a cello back in

31:37

April. They're

31:41

so big. I thought

31:43

it would be sexy, Amy. That's

31:45

making me cry laugh. That's really

31:47

funny. I don't even laugh anymore. I just go

31:50

straight to crying. You buying

31:52

a cello is so funny. They're so big

31:54

and they're so not sexy. No, I know what you mean. I mean,

31:56

I think movies like you see a woman and you're like,

31:58

yeah, totally.

31:59

The passion the sexuality, but I

32:02

played the cello. I played the cello in cell fourth

32:04

grade really? This is Greenwald My cello teacher

32:06

was like she told my mom. We don't think Amy should

32:08

continue with the cello And

32:11

I was really into it She's like

32:13

we just think we've taken it as far and that happened to me in

32:15

college, too I kept taking dance classes

32:17

like with dance majors just because you were allowed to

32:19

sign up and they were like Please stop signing up

32:22

for like tap three because it's dance

32:24

majors and you're taking the spot of something I was like,

32:26

okay. Yeah, I guess I wish

32:28

I could play an instrument

32:31

Okay, Amy, what does home mean

32:34

to you? home is

32:36

Chris and Jean and every

32:39

night we give him a bath and then we

32:41

started this thing I don't know how we started it, you know,

32:43

everybody has like their routine, but we started this

32:45

thing where after his bath You know, I

32:47

give him some milk in bed Just like a

32:49

little formula for his bed and we read books

32:52

and we just kind of hang out in bed For like

32:54

a half hour before he goes to sleep and

32:56

he's just like let us continue that I mean we've

32:59

done it for like a year and

33:01

so that little half hour every night

33:03

with the three of us in bed Or because

33:05

Tatiana comes she's so jealous of him.

33:08

That's home to me Just like that is our

33:10

uninterrupted like just hang out and talk

33:12

about the

33:13

day kind of time

33:14

I love that. Okay, if you could live

33:16

anywhere in the world for a year, where

33:18

would it be anywhere?

33:21

Other than New York, I don't know because I'm my

33:23

instinct is to have it be somewhere I haven't been yet,

33:25

but a year with a baby I get

33:27

really practical Chris and I had this amazing

33:30

trip to Spain before I got pregnant

33:32

that I feel like chilled my body out and Rejuvenated

33:34

us in a way where I could get pregnant. Did you guys like

33:36

drive around? What did you do? I have

33:39

driven around Spain. That was amazing But we just

33:41

we were in a visa but not like

33:43

a party part and

33:44

we stay there for a whole month Oh, man,

33:46

did you just like rent a place and

33:48

had your little grocery store? Yeah,

33:50

we kind of set up shop there and we're living our

33:53

lives there and like we loved

33:55

it so much We were just supposed to be there for a week and we stayed

33:57

for a month. We just loved like the people

33:59

and the vibe We never went out. We

34:01

had friends come, like I had all my high school girlfriends

34:04

come, and like moments notice them and their

34:06

families, they all came, we all hung there. And some

34:08

of them went out and like went into like a visa,

34:11

you know, came home at like 7am. And I'm

34:13

like, I've never done that, you know, I've never

34:15

done ecstasy or anything. Little mushrooms,

34:17

of course. And marijuana is

34:19

a staple. But what was the question?

34:22

No, just kidding. How

34:24

do I feel like I can talk about my drug experiences,

34:26

but I feel like I can't do that yet.

34:29

I know I also want to do the same. Like I want

34:31

to really advocate for edibles and

34:34

marijuana and motherhood.

34:36

But you know, we also want to continue working and

34:39

I know, you know, and then there's the judgment. Right.

34:41

But there will come a time where we'll be able to

34:43

be open. Will you come back on the podcast?

34:46

I'll come back on podcast and we'll be like, this is the day

34:48

we're really talking about what works.

34:51

Yeah, I look forward to that.

34:53

What occasion do you like when somebody asks

34:55

you if you've ever done ecstasy? Only on

34:57

podcasts talking about my drug use. When do I

34:59

lie? I mean, I lie every day, like all

35:03

day. About what? When I asked

35:05

this question to guess, most people say

35:07

like, you know, they'll say like, Oh, well,

35:09

you know, I'm at a place where I don't really lie.

35:12

Or they'll lie to avoid

35:14

hurting someone's feelings. But nobody

35:17

has said that they lie every day. Amy, all

35:19

day, every day. No question.

35:22

I lie every day. Are you serious? Like,

35:24

let me think about today. I mean, I lied just

35:26

to mess with Chris today. I think that I make

35:28

better smoothies than him. And he made a smoothie. I mean, it's just

35:30

the whitest arguments. But when I was like, I don't like

35:32

this, like, it's just kind of like, that's

35:35

just like a little joke that we have. But

35:36

even like, so our nanny had off for

35:38

three days. Okay. And it was really

35:40

nice. And Chris and I, we were fine.

35:42

You know, it was

35:43

like, we appreciate her. And I mean,

35:45

I am so grateful for her name's

35:47

Jane. She has taught me so much

35:49

about being a mother everything, but we're

35:51

fine. And so I said to Chris, I said,

35:53

make sure we both say, thank God you're

35:56

back. And that's a lie. But that's like, for

35:58

a good reason, you know, yeah, feels like rude

36:00

to be like, actually we're great. Bye.

36:03

Yeah, but it's more smoothing things over. I mean, I've had

36:05

to learn how to lie because I'm very impulsive

36:08

and honest. So are you a good poker

36:10

player? I am a good poker player. I believe

36:12

that actually. I really do. Are you a

36:14

good poker player? I'm not. I only enjoy

36:16

things that I'm good

36:17

at, which really limits my life.

36:19

No, that's what Chris is too. He

36:21

wants to be the best at something. He loves

36:24

competing, but he wants to be the best. I don't

36:26

like competing, but I can't help myself.

36:28

I am a competitive person. I think because I grew up

36:30

so short, I was a really short kid. Oh,

36:33

really? Yeah. It was kind of

36:35

my identity and I had a lot of dental work, Amy.

36:38

Oh God. Okay. See, that's

36:40

why you're so funny and talented because you had a hard

36:42

moment. Yeah. Oh my God.

36:45

Nobody wanted to sleep with me. Thank God for that

36:47

character building. Oh my God. What if we had

36:49

had like good, easy, smooth. That's what I'm worried

36:51

about. Gene, like, you know, we're nurturing him so much.

36:53

We almost named him genital. So he's got

36:55

some obstacles coming his way. I kind of wish

36:58

you had stuck with that. I know. I

37:00

thought about it. No, I thought about it. I was like,

37:02

am I going to boy name Sue him? And then I'm just like, no,

37:05

like he's going to already hate us for a million other

37:07

reasons. I don't want him to hate me for this.

37:10

Is that Gene? Hi, you

37:12

want to come over here? You want to come say hi? Hi.

37:16

Okay.

37:17

That's, and that was that. Hi,

37:20

Gene. Isn't it odd

37:22

when journalists are like, so what is Gene

37:25

up to these days? He's

37:27

mostly doing pottery

37:29

and reading Nietzsche. Yeah.

37:32

We're learning how to, you know, get him to let

37:34

us change his diaper without screaming. Most

37:37

newborns are, you know, by nature,

37:40

not very attractive. True. When Gene was

37:42

born, Michael and I were like,

37:44

fuck, that's a beautiful baby. Oh, really? Like

37:47

as a newborn? Yes. Oh, good.

37:49

He was perfect. He was so

37:51

beautiful. I just thought that, but he

37:54

came out. He was ready to be a model. He came out

37:56

for the runway. He was like this well-baked

37:58

loaf of bread. like just

38:01

plump and gorgeous like nothing

38:03

misshapen and odd about him and just incredible.

38:06

He has natural contour. Oh god,

38:10

just that moment. I love how you talked

38:13

about how you and Chris locked eyes. The

38:15

most intense moment of your life. Oh beyond

38:18

yeah. It's actually indescribable I think. It

38:20

is. Before you have a baby, when

38:23

people find out you're pregnant and they look at you and they

38:25

go like you know and you're like

38:27

why is everyone so weird about a

38:29

baby you know but then when you have a baby now

38:31

when I find out a friend's pregnant I'm like oh

38:34

you know you understand you understand why people

38:36

like look at you and they know how magical.

38:38

And the sharing of stories like I totally

38:41

understand it now. Yeah. In fact

38:43

I grew up I have a big older brother and I'm really

38:46

close with him now but we grew up fighting

38:48

a lot and I was also very resentful

38:50

that I was a girl. Yeah as

38:52

you should be. I know I felt that from a

38:54

very young age. Same here

38:56

same here. My brother had a

38:58

marine poster like a recruitment poster

39:01

for the marines that you know was like only a few good

39:03

men. I fucking hated that shit so much.

39:06

When I went to my 20th high school reunion. Do

39:08

you recommend that? I mean mine's coming on. Yeah

39:10

I sort of got roped into it through

39:13

my brother. Anyway I didn't remember anybody.

39:15

It's really you know awkward to look down at

39:17

somebody's name tag when you're like six

39:20

inches away from them. But what

39:22

was nice is that it was confirming a couple

39:24

people said oh yeah I remember you as a really quiet

39:27

shy person. Yeah. And that was

39:29

nice to hear because that's how I remembered

39:31

myself so it was a confirmation of that. That's nice.

39:33

How do you think people would have

39:36

remembered you? What kind of activities were

39:38

you involved in? What was your high school mascot?

39:41

Okay our high school mascot was truly awful.

39:44

We were the cyclones. I think that's gonna

39:46

rad. But then we were the lady cyclones

39:48

which kind of sounds like a vague term

39:51

for your period. I don't know. Yeah the lady

39:53

cyclones. I don't know. Maybe you're right. It could have been worse

39:55

but it still felt like okay

39:57

you know and like you couldn't really have like a physical

42:00

like Juliet or something and everyone

42:02

was just dying laughing. You

42:04

have that too. It's a rare thing where you come

42:06

on screen or on stage or whatever and people just

42:09

love you. Thank you, Amy. That's something

42:11

that you can't learn and you can't teach,

42:13

then it's out of your hands. I had a

42:15

really hard time going on talk shows. The

42:18

podcast has been a relief for me because it's

42:20

an element where I can control my own narrative.

42:23

But in general, I'm much more comfortable

42:26

playing a character. I think this also

42:28

probably links back to my issues with not

42:31

having as many female friends. It's all because

42:33

that bitch wrote on your locker. I

42:35

love you, Amy. Where is she now?

42:38

Where is she? I love you. I

42:40

want to know, that's the show I want to make. Bullies,

42:42

where are they now? My brother is

42:45

a professor at UC Davis and his

42:47

whole research is based on bullying, which

42:50

to me is fucking insane because man,

42:52

he bullied the shit out of me. Yeah,

42:55

you're like, really? This is your life? Your

42:58

life's work? That's really funny. So

43:00

the solitude in terms of creative

43:03

with stand up and then acting

43:05

with other actors, you

43:08

do an amazing job handling both

43:10

abilities. Can you help me fill

43:12

in the blanks with this idea? Of

43:15

stand up versus acting? Can you ask

43:17

yourself this question? Trying to

43:19

ask you. Take a nap. I'd

43:21

like to pose this question to myself. Amy, this is actually

43:24

a two-part question. So this sort of

43:26

like road to the connection between stand

43:28

up and performing. Well, what's interesting is

43:30

actually, who before they say something says

43:32

like, this is interesting. Like, listen,

43:35

this is interesting. It's probably not, but

43:37

when I was starting stand up, I was also

43:39

taking this two-year Meisner course with William

43:42

Esper in New York. He died last year, but the William

43:44

Esper studio is where I studied. And

43:46

yeah, two-year Meisner intensive. So I was doing

43:49

that while I was starting stand up. And

43:51

the Meisner technique is very much about putting

43:53

all of your attention on the other person and

43:55

leaving yourself alone is part of it, and

43:58

living truthfully under imaginary circumstances. So

44:01

I remember I was going in to apply for a

44:03

new bartending job and I went

44:05

and I asked the bartenders the manager here and He

44:07

was like a little bit rude and I said did I say

44:10

something to upset you and he said are

44:12

you taking a Meisner course? It's so

44:14

fucking specific. I

44:16

know New York, you know, she's like, oh

44:19

god Did not get that job but

44:21

you know It just translates to everything is what I'm

44:23

saying Like even in your relationships just because

44:25

it's so much about your attention on the other person

44:28

So with stand-up I was probably a little

44:30

more tuned into the crowd than I would have

44:32

been if I weren't going through that Training then stand-up

44:34

is such a solitary thing But I do think

44:36

it's a little bit like delivering a monologue

44:39

or like a speech, you know in a movie where you

44:41

need to be the Most effective the stand-up I

44:43

prefer is when it kind of seems like you're working

44:45

something out in the moment rather than I wrote

44:48

these Jokes that now I'm saying them. I think

44:50

being present just brings another level

44:53

of enjoyment That's why you know There's a misconception

44:55

that stand-up is off the cuff and

44:57

some people think like maybe I'm good at stand-up That's

44:59

not how it works. It's like you with the cello It's

45:01

like you're not just like maybe I'm amazing at that you have

45:03

to learn but you know living in the moment is good

45:06

for both I would say I want to ask

45:08

you on what occasions do you get nervous? But I

45:10

also want to ask you when you're on stage Do

45:13

you prefer to be blinded

45:15

by lights or do you prefer

45:17

to see do you care? Oh, yeah Yeah,

45:20

yeah, I want to see a little bit like the first

45:22

four rows the first like four rows Yeah,

45:25

I come out and have time to do like

45:27

the soundcheck, you know in general I'm like, I'd

45:29

love to be able to see the first four rows because that blinding

45:31

light that kind of messes with me and

45:34

Stage right the only time I've gotten nervous

45:37

in so long was right before I interviewed Isabel

45:39

Wilkerson about cost

45:41

Other than that, I'm pretty rarely nervous

45:44

I get nervous for like, you know If

45:47

I were flying if I wanted to ask the flight attendant

45:49

for a drink or something I would get nervous

45:52

because I just really don't like annoying people, you

45:54

know, I'm like, okay

45:56

How can I ask this in a way that's not annoying? Yeah,

45:58

but I don't get nervous for things

45:59

that I probably should. I feel

46:02

like a low grade nervous energy,

46:04

fairly frequently. Kind

46:06

of on the reg. Yeah, well,

46:09

I don't know, I drink decaf coffee, so maybe

46:11

that... Oh shit, that's probably what I should

46:13

do. That is something that makes everybody

46:16

sick to their stomach. If I order a decaf,

46:18

everyone in the room is just like, why?

46:21

And I'm like, just please, let me live my

46:23

life. Have you developed any oddities

46:25

or have things come out during this quarantine

46:27

experience that you're like, huh, that's an odd

46:30

part of my personality I didn't realize?

46:32

I mean, we didn't do anything ever at all.

46:35

We haven't left the house

46:36

after like 5.30 for like

46:39

nine months, so I was really good

46:41

with that. Something that surprised me is that it has not

46:43

been hard to not do stand-up. The only thing I'm really

46:46

missing is the people that I would see all the time.

46:48

No sort of oddities. Wait, Amy,

46:51

I bet you have oddities. I know, I know,

46:53

I must. Well, Chris and I got very into

46:55

boogie boarding this summer, and we were making

46:57

videos of ourselves boogie boarding. We

47:00

took on joke personas, people

47:02

who are really into boogie boarding, kind

47:04

of talk about it, like it's surfing. So Chris

47:06

and I got into a little bit of a weird area. Amazing.

47:09

And I gained so much weight at the beginning of COVID.

47:12

So we have these videos where I'm just like a total

47:15

just pumpkin, just hurling

47:17

myself in the ocean on this board. I have

47:19

to text you some videos, they're really funny. I would

47:21

love that. Okay. What

47:23

is a real fear and what's an irrational fear

47:26

of yours? A real fear I have

47:29

is right now COVID. Yeah.

47:31

I'm in New York, I am scared of COVID. I'm

47:34

very scared of it too. And I feel like

47:36

I'm more nervous than other people around me, which

47:38

makes me feel insane. I know somebody else

47:40

goes to me, they said yesterday, they go, did

47:42

you know that now you're supposed to wear a mask even when

47:44

you're inside if you're not at home? And I'm

47:46

like, yeah, bitch, like, of course,

47:49

haven't you been to it? And she was like, Oh,

47:51

yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay. And

47:53

irrational fear, I just like

47:56

really try to stay on top of things. So

47:58

like this past week, like

47:59

I thought my appendix

48:00

hurt. So I went to the doctor and

48:03

she's like, no, you know, you're

48:05

completely fine. So I'm just afraid.

48:07

I just wanna be the person who did something immediately

48:10

so that I'm not like, oh, I should have gone to the doctor

48:12

when I had that first thing. Irrational

48:14

health beers. Do you have a joke you

48:16

can tell our dear listeners?

48:17

Okay, so Michael K.

48:19

Williams, Homer from

48:21

The Wire,

48:21

he was like, asked me to do this

48:24

thing this summer when he was entertaining New York

48:26

City kids. Like, so they still had a program

48:28

where they could hang out even though COVID

48:30

was happening.

48:31

And he asked me to come on, whatever. And then one of the kids

48:33

asked me to tell a joke. And I really couldn't

48:36

think of one. Like, I couldn't think of one joke.

48:38

So the one I thought of that

48:40

everyone while I was pregnant was telling me how

48:42

good prenatal yoga was for

48:44

the baby. So I immediately signed up

48:47

for a C-section.

48:48

So that's the joke. But I said

48:50

it and like, these kids are like 14, you know?

48:54

So they all start trashing me. They all start

48:56

trashing me. I think they had more fun than

48:59

I bombed. And I also told them this long

49:01

winded like stupid old like kind of dad

49:03

joke. And they were asking questions like, okay, so

49:05

what was going through your mind when you decided to just tell

49:07

us that joke? Like they just

49:10

trashed me and I just absolutely had it coming.

49:12

Amy, can I ask you a super quick deal

49:14

breaker? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay,

49:17

a very popular beer company is putting out

49:19

a line of beer just for women. They

49:21

want you to be the face of the national

49:23

campaign for let's say $12 million. However,

49:27

they want you to say the catchphrase cooked up by

49:29

their ad agency. Women, sometimes

49:32

we wanna be one of the boys. Yeah. Are

49:34

you down with it? Do you do it? For $12 million?

49:37

Yeah. For $12 million. Yep. Okay,

49:40

and how would you say it? Women. Sometimes

49:42

we just wanna

49:43

be one of the boys.

49:45

That's fucking good. One

49:47

of the boys. I wanted to give you

49:49

notes, but I can't. On my sketch

49:52

show, we did a scene called Trick Who Can Hang.

49:54

You know, that kind of play on. And guys are like,

49:57

I just want a girl who can like crack a beer open

49:59

with her teeth. build a deck.

50:01

You know you're like you just want a guy, then

50:03

you just want a guy.

50:06

Okay, Amy, the last question.

50:08

How would you like to be remembered?

50:11

As an activist who

50:14

fought really hard for equality,

50:16

for racial equality. Amy, thank

50:19

you for being so brave,

50:21

truly, for your activism. Thank

50:23

you. Yeah, I know that it's in your position.

50:26

It exposes you to a lot of vitriol

50:29

and it is a tough, scary place,

50:32

I imagine at times, and it's

50:34

incredibly admirable. Thank you.

50:36

Thank you, and I'm excited for the beginning of our friendship.

50:39

Me too. I'm so excited, Amy. I've

50:41

been dreaming of being your friend for a long time.

50:43

As I have of you. Thanks for having me

50:45

on. Amy, I love you. Thank

50:48

you so much. I love you. Please

50:50

give my love to Chris and Jean. I will.

50:52

My love to Jack. I will. Love to

50:54

fiance. All right. Bye,

50:57

Queen. Bye. Much love.

50:59

Bye.

51:02

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51:04

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51:06

At Aramco, our questions

51:08

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51:11

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51:13

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51:25

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51:42

Hey everyone, I'm excited

51:44

to welcome back Dr. Alex Katahakis.

51:47

You can learn more about Dr. Alex and our other

51:49

experts on our website, unqualified.com.

51:57

Hi, Dr. Alex. Thanks so much for

51:59

doing this. this. Hi Anna, thank you for

52:01

having me. Alright, let's call Brian.

52:07

Hello.

52:08

Hi Brian. Hi Anna. How

52:10

are you? I'm,

52:11

to be honest, a little nervous

52:14

but excited to be on

52:16

here and chatting with you guys and

52:18

I really appreciate the help. If it's

52:20

any consolation, I always get anxious.

52:23

Brian, I am here with Dr. Alex Katahakis.

52:25

She is a psychotherapist. She's

52:28

a leader in the field of integrative

52:29

sex therapy. She's the clinical

52:31

director of the Center for Healthy Sex

52:33

in Los Angeles and the author of

52:35

some brilliant books which we can give you information

52:38

on. Great. Yeah, so she's

52:40

definitely more qualified. I was just telling

52:42

Dr. Alex that I'm just like the ding-dong

52:44

that chimes in with my own vulnerabilities

52:48

in these scenarios. But

52:50

Brian, will you tell us what's happening?

52:52

So me and my wife have been

52:55

together for about 10 years. We've been married for about

52:57

five. We

52:59

were sort of high school sweethearts, you could say.

53:01

I went on a date with her once in high school and

53:04

didn't call her back until our 10-year high school

53:06

reunion. And

53:09

we have three kids and when I met her

53:11

at our 10-year reunion, she had a three-year-old little

53:13

girl and a wonderful little girl. And

53:16

we've had two since then, a little girl and a little boy

53:18

and they're just little maniacs

53:21

and awesome. I love that. It's

53:23

a lot of work to do, but I think I take a lot

53:25

of pride in being a dad and

53:27

being a husband. And I believe we have a

53:29

pretty good relationship with communication

53:32

and whatnot. I guess I should preface

53:35

saying I love my wife with every

53:37

beat of my heart and I do anything for

53:39

her and I do anything for my children. And you

53:42

do your best to be a good parent and

53:44

sometimes the other things kind

53:48

of go off to the side when it comes to your children. I think

53:50

after an hour first, like the

53:52

little girl that number two, whenever she came,

53:55

things started to kind of slowly kind of

53:58

back off in the city. sex department, I guess,

54:01

a little bit. And I was, you know, understanding

54:03

about that. And that's the last thing

54:05

I want to do is put any pressure on sex. It's

54:07

wonderful when it's unpressured. You know, over

54:09

time, you know, it's been five years

54:11

now and it's just slowly dwindled.

54:14

And we've had discussions about it. Is

54:16

she just not very into

54:18

that, I guess, at the moment, or any kind of physical touch

54:21

at all? You know, she's still very sweet and understanding

54:23

about it. I just want to be understanding

54:25

about her, but at the same time, and I've

54:27

read a lot of the books about, you know, love

54:29

languages and trying to keep that part of your life full.

54:32

And, and I know what mine is, and I know hers

54:34

isn't physical touch or anything like that. I just

54:37

want to feel fulfilled in

54:40

that aspect of our relationship without having to

54:42

force sex or have it to be

54:44

put on a calendar. You know, like, that sounds like the worst thing

54:47

in the world to be like, all right, it's Friday. Is it

54:49

time to have sex now? Right. I

54:51

want it to be passionate and spontaneous

54:54

in some regards in that I

54:56

love my wife more than my own life is concerned.

54:58

I want her to be to feel like she's connecting

55:01

to me too.

55:02

You are in great hands, Brian, with

55:05

Dr. Alex.

55:06

Well, Brian,

55:09

hi. I'm Alex Kudahakis,

55:12

and you sound like a really kind

55:14

and open hearted man. So I'm happy to meet

55:17

you. And how old

55:19

are you and how old is your wife?

55:21

We're both 38. We're actually, it's

55:23

a funny thing, and this is totally not on topic,

55:26

but we were born within five

55:28

days of each other in the same hospital on the

55:30

same floor. Wow. It's

55:33

random. Like, she was born a week earlier

55:35

than me. And I think her parents were leaving the hospital

55:37

the day I was born. They were arriving. Yeah. Well, so

55:40

you can't sort of came in together. Well,

55:42

you know, it's interesting because 38 for

55:45

most women is a sexual

55:47

prime, that that's the time when women

55:49

are most sexually interested,

55:51

active. And I understand

55:54

that she's got a small brood here

55:56

that is might be exhausting

55:57

for her too. You know, often

55:59

Sometimes when women have children grabbing at

56:02

them 24-7, the last thing they want

56:04

is a partner grabbing at them.

56:07

And having said that, you know,

56:09

part of being in a committed

56:12

relationship is

56:14

having a sexual connection which gives

56:16

people a positive emotional

56:18

connection so they can endure

56:20

the child rearing and all the stressors of

56:23

being householders.

56:25

I really want to understand more

56:28

what she says about why she doesn't

56:30

want sex now.

56:32

You know, I don't know that she's

56:35

given me a straight, I

56:37

don't like to have sex. And it's probably

56:39

stress-based, like you said. I mean, those

56:41

kids are wonderful but they're very

56:44

engaging. And today

56:47

when I was on my lunch break for work, I mean, I

56:49

work in our bedroom because of COVID and I'm

56:51

able to come out and help out with chores

56:53

if I can and help out with them

56:56

and they're very clingy to her, especially

56:58

today, goodness. They were crawling

57:00

all over and I bet you're right, it's

57:02

some of that.

57:03

Yeah. So when does she actually get

57:05

a break from them? When does she

57:08

get to feel sexy and

57:10

like a woman and not just like a nurse

57:13

maid or a babysitter? So

57:15

how does that look in your lives? And I

57:17

know it's really difficult now.

57:19

I mean, it's like almost like you wouldn't want a babysitter

57:22

in your house.

57:23

Well, as of about a couple of years ago,

57:25

I'm extremely active myself

57:28

being in the field I am and

57:30

I'm always exercising and always

57:32

out there. And I've, you know, as of the time we

57:34

met, I'd always felt a little guilty

57:37

or at least wanted her to have something, some kind

57:39

of hobby or skill or

57:41

something she can get crazy passionate

57:43

about. And I don't necessarily have to be there to do

57:46

it. I want her to feel that. So I'd always

57:48

be kind of encouraging in that regards to

57:50

a go out with your girlfriends, find something, find

57:52

out, you know, try this activity, try biking,

57:54

try running in the past or a year

57:56

or so she goes out every Saturday and actually.

58:00

Most mornings, she'll go out and run with a girlfriend.

58:02

And I wanted to have that time and I thought that

58:05

was it. Maybe if I give her more time

58:07

with her friends, more time out, she'd feel

58:10

more able or more willing or

58:12

just more comfortable, less stressed. And

58:14

then the rest would flow naturally. And it's

58:17

been great for her. She's

58:19

lost all the baby weight, which makes her feel

58:21

very proud. That's about

58:23

me, that's coming from her. She wants

58:26

to do all that. And we try to have date

58:28

night, well, before COVID, it was

58:30

every Thursday. Now it's usually

58:33

once a month if we can manage it. And

58:35

there's no obligation for

58:37

sexuality. It's just, I want to spend the night

58:40

with my wife and connect with her and try

58:42

to have conversation. And maybe if

58:44

something comes from that, great.

58:46

So she hasn't really told you why

58:50

she doesn't want to be sexual.

58:52

In your email, you write, after the last

58:54

child my wife admits she has little

58:56

to no sex drive. I've gone

58:58

through stages of my life where

59:00

I have felt like I have not

59:03

had a sex drive for various reasons

59:05

and it really bothers me. And it won't

59:07

be until like I'm actually like

59:10

reluctantly making out

59:12

or in bed when I'm like, all right, let's do

59:14

this. Then like after I

59:16

get into the flow, then I'm totally

59:19

into it. Well, no, that's not true now

59:21

as I get older. Now things,

59:23

I feel pretty active. Dr.

59:26

Alex, I don't know if this is what Brian's wife

59:28

maybe experiences and I of course I'm

59:30

simplifying it. There is just the exhaustion

59:33

level of like, after you put the kids

59:35

to bed, you want to crawl into bed and

59:38

shut off your brain with some stupid program

59:40

and like

59:42

be immobile.

59:44

Well, one of the things you're pointing to, those

59:46

are two different things, is that the female sex

59:48

drive or arousal cycle

59:51

is very different than the male. So for many,

59:53

many females, desire

59:55

follows arousal and that's what

59:57

you're talking about. I don't really.

59:59

you like it, I'm going to do it anyway

1:00:02

or take one for the team. I'm not really

1:00:04

that into it but once you start

1:00:07

to connect

1:00:07

with your partner physically like you said,

1:00:10

making out, being touched, touching,

1:00:13

then the body starts to get aroused

1:00:15

and then you have desire for your partner

1:00:17

and that's inverse of

1:00:19

the typical and we're talking about of course

1:00:21

heterosexual dyads here. The heterosexual

1:00:24

male is very different than the female

1:00:26

is. So when your wife

1:00:29

says that she doesn't have a sex drive, that's

1:00:31

always dubious to me because drive

1:00:34

is not a reason to have

1:00:35

sex. I mean sure when you're 18, 20, 25, 30, if you have a

1:00:40

drive, great

1:00:41

but what happens as we age

1:00:43

and we've been married longer and we have children.

1:00:46

If sex isn't about a drive, then what's it

1:00:48

about? And that's my curiosity

1:00:50

is why doesn't she want to connect with you

1:00:53

in a physical way when that is

1:00:55

the most connecting

1:00:58

thing that two people can do to keep

1:01:01

their relationship

1:01:02

feeling good actually and

1:01:05

to stoke the secure functioning

1:01:07

of a relationship and you're not

1:01:10

someone

1:01:10

who's pressuring her, you're not

1:01:12

being inappropriate

1:01:13

in any way, you're just saying, hi, I'm

1:01:15

here. What's going on with

1:01:17

our marriage, our relationship with

1:01:20

each other? And so I

1:01:22

think you have to have more conversation

1:01:24

with her first, otherwise we're just guessing

1:01:26

here.

1:01:27

Certainly she's exhausted with three children

1:01:30

but she is in her sexual prime and

1:01:33

even if she doesn't have a drive, what

1:01:35

about pleasure? I mean pleasure is an extraordinary

1:01:38

way to reduce

1:01:38

stress.

1:01:40

You know what you were saying really connected with

1:01:42

me, I think it sounded like

1:01:44

what's going on. She'll feel, I

1:01:46

guess, for lack of a better word, horny

1:01:49

or aroused maybe once every other month

1:01:51

or so and it's pretty obvious. She

1:01:53

does have it. Right. Just

1:01:55

never coming up. I think

1:01:58

something I was thinking about when

1:02:01

I found out that I was actually gonna have to talk to

1:02:03

somebody on a podcast. So

1:02:09

I travel very little for work, but when

1:02:11

I do, it's usually pretty exotic

1:02:13

places or so. I was in Hawaii

1:02:15

for a couple weeks

1:02:18

last October or was

1:02:20

before not last October, but it was before COVID.

1:02:23

I was out working for about a week and a half. And

1:02:26

I just said, Come on out. Let's get you

1:02:28

out here. You've never been to Hawaii. I've

1:02:30

been a couple times and granted it's for

1:02:32

work and it is. I am not on the beach

1:02:35

when I'm there. Let's put it that way. It

1:02:37

is hard. But after that, she

1:02:39

came out. We had a great time

1:02:41

and it was like she was a teenager again.

1:02:44

I couldn't keep up with her. It's

1:02:46

like I know it's there and

1:02:48

I know it can be brought out in certain circumstances.

1:02:50

Those

1:02:51

are different things also because

1:02:53

more people have more sex on vacation

1:02:56

because we're relaxed.

1:02:58

When you're home, there's so

1:03:00

many responsibilities and it's stressful

1:03:03

and stress is antithetical to relaxation

1:03:05

and sexual arousal. And

1:03:08

so

1:03:08

on vacation, there's no responsibility.

1:03:10

She doesn't have to be a parent or a grown

1:03:12

up.

1:03:13

She gets to play. And so, of course,

1:03:15

her body is relaxed in the water

1:03:17

and in the sun.

1:03:19

But how do we integrate our sexuality

1:03:22

with being householders and parents and day

1:03:24

to day living

1:03:24

is the question.

1:03:26

And it requires a real effort. And

1:03:29

there's something in here about intimacy

1:03:31

and deep connection that may

1:03:34

or may not lead to intercourse.

1:03:36

What happens that she doesn't

1:03:39

say, yeah, I really want to make time with you just to connect

1:03:42

and maybe it is that you have a night

1:03:44

together and

1:03:44

you end up giving each other massages

1:03:47

or laying in each other's arms

1:03:50

or feeling what it feels like just to breathe together

1:03:53

and making some kind of physical

1:03:55

contact that maybe

1:03:58

leads to sexual arousal and maybe doesn't.

1:04:01

But these are matters of intimacy

1:04:04

that can lead to quite incredible

1:04:06

eroticism, which

1:04:09

is different than I'm on vacation and I'm

1:04:10

super relaxed and we'll have sex every day.

1:04:14

It's not even about intercourse

1:04:16

necessarily. And something I've learned to change in

1:04:18

myself a little bit to kind of accommodate

1:04:21

that is that it really in my head isn't

1:04:23

about intercourse. It's about arousing my

1:04:25

wife. You move differently when you're aroused.

1:04:28

Right. The way that she moves,

1:04:30

the way that she breathes, the way that she is,

1:04:32

the way that she comes to me, that's what I want. That's

1:04:34

what I'm attracted to. That's what I'm trying to

1:04:36

save. I would love to have intercourse,

1:04:39

but that's not the point. Yeah. It

1:04:42

really, and that's, I'm glad you brought that up because that is so

1:04:44

key for me.

1:04:46

Well, I think it's key for many men.

1:04:48

I mean, that's what pornography is about.

1:04:50

Men

1:04:50

get off on porn because the women in porn,

1:04:52

no matter what's being done to them, look like they

1:04:55

love it. No one wants

1:04:56

to have sex with a dead fish.

1:04:59

So you're saying that her pleasure

1:05:01

is arousing to you. Right. And it can

1:05:04

be just that. Yeah. Right. So

1:05:06

have you ever told her that?

1:05:08

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I'll come out and

1:05:10

say, I'd love to sit down and give you a massage

1:05:12

and just have it be all about you. And

1:05:14

it's usually 70, 30, she'll say, I'm a little

1:05:16

tired, maybe

1:05:19

not tonight, maybe tomorrow. And the other time

1:05:21

she'll go, okay. And it's kind of a

1:05:23

little obligatory. And then

1:05:25

once things get, you know, kind of

1:05:28

into motion, it's like you said, it's, it can be

1:05:30

changed when she's turned on or when

1:05:33

it gets a little physical. But I feel

1:05:35

so super guilty if, if I'm

1:05:37

trying to oblige her to

1:05:40

start that process. That makes sense.

1:05:42

Yeah, it does. But I feel like this is

1:05:44

common, right? Dr. Alex, of

1:05:46

course, like to use this as a stereotypical

1:05:49

example, I suppose that men feel guilty

1:05:52

for putting any kind of pressure

1:05:55

onto their partner. And of course, it

1:05:57

doesn't feel good. Brian, I've also

1:05:59

been in a a couple relationships

1:06:02

where I wanted to have sex more than the

1:06:04

guy that I was with and As

1:06:06

a woman that was pretty devastating

1:06:10

Because like we're not socialized in

1:06:12

that way and so it was a blow to

1:06:14

my ego Dr. Alex, would you recommend

1:06:17

I'm sort of addressing this on

1:06:19

a maybe a surface level if Brian

1:06:21

ordered toys is

1:06:23

That also an avenue that

1:06:25

would be really fun for them to take I

1:06:28

don't think so because it's not Consensual

1:06:30

per se what's missing here

1:06:32

is that I don't know your

1:06:35

partner at all your wife And this is

1:06:37

a tricky thing to say but my

1:06:39

perception is there's some kind of

1:06:41

self-deception going on here that She's

1:06:43

not really being honest

1:06:45

about what's going on for her sexually

1:06:47

what turns her on what she likes Why

1:06:50

she's avoiding your advances?

1:06:53

She's not being transparent and

1:06:56

it may be that she's not being honest with

1:06:58

herself

1:06:59

Because she's just beleaguered and tired

1:07:01

and it's like oh you just want to have

1:07:03

sex again And and I'm very

1:07:05

also cautious about this notion about

1:07:07

people putting pressure on each other You

1:07:10

don't have to take that quote pressure on

1:07:12

so Brian if you're saying

1:07:14

you know I want to have sex with you I'm aroused

1:07:17

by you. I desire you this is

1:07:19

important

1:07:20

to me if she feels pressured

1:07:22

by that That's not really you're doing

1:07:24

That's built in an inherent

1:07:27

in the system

1:07:27

of marriage The system

1:07:30

puts pressure on us the individuals

1:07:32

aren't putting pressure You know unless

1:07:35

somebody is really over the line, but that's

1:07:37

not what we're talking about right now

1:07:39

So for you to silence yourself

1:07:41

is not a good idea because you're gonna have resentments

1:07:43

about that You know breaking out all

1:07:46

the sex books and the sex toys is going

1:07:48

to be annoying to her I think

1:07:50

what has to happen is a really you know

1:07:53

Frank conversation Let's sit down

1:07:55

and

1:07:55

talk about what's actually

1:07:57

going on here because

1:07:58

this is what goes

1:07:59

For me, this is what I'm thinking about. This

1:08:02

is what I want.

1:08:03

But then Dr. Alex, can Brian just also

1:08:05

say, goddamn baby,

1:08:07

your ass looks hot? Yeah.

1:08:10

I don't know what she would do with that. But yeah.

1:08:12

I mean, Brian, can you imagine saying

1:08:14

that to your wife? And what would she say back to you?

1:08:17

Well, the funny thing is I do that. Maybe

1:08:19

not as vigorously as

1:08:22

Anna did, but she.

1:08:25

I'm going to put a little vigor into it, Brian. Yeah.

1:08:28

I don't recall any specific

1:08:30

response. She'll do it to me too. She'll pinch my

1:08:32

butt and say, cute butt. We

1:08:34

do flirt a little back and forth. When she

1:08:36

came out of the bathroom like 10 minutes before I started this call,

1:08:39

I just said, hey, beautiful. You

1:08:41

look wonderful. And I just want her to feel

1:08:43

good and edited. It's nothing sexual.

1:08:46

Nothing went from there. It was just me

1:08:48

trying to flirt with my wife. Yeah,

1:08:51

Brian. I eat that shit up. I

1:08:54

am a sucker for that kind of stuff.

1:08:57

I really am for compliments that

1:08:59

are spontaneous, middle

1:09:01

of the day, more, whatever. I love

1:09:03

it.

1:09:03

And

1:09:06

I think my relationship with my fiance has really

1:09:09

benefited from he's so sweet

1:09:11

to me and so expressive of

1:09:13

how sexy he thinks I am.

1:09:16

And that means a lot to me. Maybe this

1:09:18

is just a small, minor

1:09:20

idea

1:09:21

Dr. Alex might be

1:09:23

nodding her head at me, Brian. No,

1:09:25

no. It's a great idea.

1:09:28

But why isn't she meeting his advances,

1:09:30

his overtures, his flirtations

1:09:34

in the same way he's pursuing

1:09:36

her and she avoids him somewhat?

1:09:39

What's actually really going on? Because once

1:09:42

you can straighten that out and get

1:09:44

honest about that, then there's

1:09:46

a lot of room for that kind of sexual play,

1:09:49

for talking to each other in raunchy ways,

1:09:51

ordering sex toys, whatever

1:09:53

turns both of you on, so that there's a play

1:09:56

state to it. But right now, she's

1:09:58

just calling a moratorium. sex.

1:10:01

I think it also sounds like she's afraid that if

1:10:03

she touches you, you're gonna read that as wanting to

1:10:05

have sex. So she's withholding

1:10:07

touch also. How would

1:10:09

Brian initiate this conversation?

1:10:12

How would he open up a conversation

1:10:14

that wouldn't shut her down if

1:10:16

her answer might be like, well Brian,

1:10:19

I'm tired. We have three kids

1:10:22

who are in the house all day long. You know,

1:10:24

the laundry is never-ending. What is a

1:10:27

good way to approach this kind

1:10:29

of conversation? Well

1:10:30

that's kind

1:10:32

of tricky because of all the sort

1:10:35

of ins and outs of that.

1:10:36

I mean Brian, is that how she would respond? I'm

1:10:38

like, did you have a key to my house today?

1:10:43

It's like, yeah, the laundry is never done. Who's gonna

1:10:45

make dinner tonight? And the kids are crazy

1:10:48

and the house we put an offer on didn't get accepted.

1:10:51

All this like, all these things.

1:10:53

Is it as simple as that? I mean, I don't think

1:10:55

it could be but...

1:10:57

Yeah, I think that's a big

1:10:59

part of it but it's also

1:11:00

about making time in the

1:11:02

midst of that hectic life

1:11:05

once a week to say, hey,

1:11:07

let's go for a walk.

1:11:09

Let's hold hands while we walk. Let's talk

1:11:12

about and say to her, you know, I really

1:11:14

miss you and I see how overwhelmed

1:11:17

you are by doing all the time and how exhausted

1:11:19

you are. And

1:11:20

I miss my lover. I miss my partner.

1:11:23

What

1:11:23

can we do to not

1:11:26

completely marginalize our sexual

1:11:28

connection with each other? What would

1:11:30

help her make a space

1:11:33

to receive pleasure from you?

1:11:35

Because

1:11:36

she's giving all the time. I

1:11:38

like the idea of opening the conversation.

1:11:40

Well, poor

1:11:42

fiancé Michael is sitting right over

1:11:44

here and I'm talking about him as though he's not.

1:11:48

But every night

1:11:51

he will like pet and

1:11:53

massage my back as I fall to sleep.

1:11:55

And more often than not,

1:11:57

yeah, we have a really nice time.

1:12:00

petting leads to exactly

1:12:02

what we both want, even when I'm tired.

1:12:05

And he's a very physical person, which I love

1:12:08

because I'm like you, Brian. I really like,

1:12:11

I like physical touch a lot and

1:12:14

it tends to lead in my

1:12:16

relationship to a

1:12:17

lot of sex. So,

1:12:21

oh good lord, I'm sorry mom

1:12:23

and dad.

1:12:24

But I wouldn't want Brian to be, I

1:12:27

don't know, rejected?

1:12:29

You know, he might be rejected, but

1:12:32

I think when we give because we want

1:12:34

to, not because we expect something in return,

1:12:37

but

1:12:37

if somebody rejects us we can be disappointed,

1:12:40

but so what?

1:12:42

You know, we're disappointed every day of the week

1:12:44

about something or another and when you're an adult

1:12:47

you sort of lick your wounds and you move on.

1:12:50

So, I don't know, again,

1:12:52

I don't know her, you do Brian, would

1:12:54

she respond to touch

1:12:56

a foot massage, a shoulder massage

1:12:59

before she goes to sleep at night just because you

1:13:01

want to make contact with her?

1:13:04

I think so. All

1:13:05

right. I don't think she would be, would shy

1:13:07

away from that. She's very kind and I guess

1:13:10

we're pretty typical people, but she

1:13:12

would respond I think kindly with that

1:13:15

and just don't know if necessarily

1:13:17

it would, you know, go anywhere, but then it's not

1:13:20

necessarily about that.

1:13:21

Well, right, you don't know and I think

1:13:24

that's on his point.

1:13:24

She's saying for her she's exhausted

1:13:27

and she's out ready to go to sleep, but

1:13:30

that back massage rub becomes

1:13:32

an invitation and her body

1:13:34

responds to it.

1:13:35

And I think that's again

1:13:38

about in that moment

1:13:40

you have a choice. You can say no, I'm just going

1:13:42

to roll over and go to sleep or I

1:13:44

want to make

1:13:44

this physical connection with my partner. This

1:13:47

is for the good of the whole.

1:13:49

This creates this positive connection

1:13:51

between the two of us and,

1:13:53

you know, the marriage matters to me. So

1:13:56

even though I'm really tired, I'm

1:13:58

going to have sex anyway.

1:13:59

I'll be glad afterwards.

1:14:02

And going back to the idea of compliments, the

1:14:05

more specific the better. You

1:14:07

know, it might make her think about those things,

1:14:09

whether it's her eyes or legs and

1:14:11

then she might feel sexier. I don't

1:14:14

know, Dr. Alex, am I a ding dong?

1:14:16

I think I'm right. Yes,

1:14:19

I think you are right that it's not

1:14:22

a generality, it's something specific to

1:14:24

her. And for everyone,

1:14:26

it will be different. So we can't say

1:14:28

that every single thing that you respond

1:14:31

to, all women respond to. I

1:14:33

guess you're right, Dr. Alex. But Brian

1:14:35

knows his wife better than we

1:14:37

do, so he would know

1:14:40

what she will and won't respond

1:14:42

to.

1:14:43

Yeah, I get that. She has beautiful eyes.

1:14:45

Like, if you saw her, that would be the first thing that stuck out to

1:14:47

you. It's what stuck out to me in 10th grade when I saw

1:14:49

her in English class for the first time. Yeah,

1:14:51

she has gorgeous eyes and wonderful

1:14:54

legs and some of the things I

1:14:56

like she doesn't like. I don't think she likes

1:14:58

her feet very much, but I do. I've

1:15:01

always liked her tummy, her stomach, baby

1:15:04

and interdron. Right. Those

1:15:06

are kind of her maybe sore subjects,

1:15:09

I guess you could say.

1:15:10

And maybe like when you guys are watching television

1:15:13

or whatever, rubber feet, I

1:15:15

think you guys are on to something when you talk about

1:15:17

like physical touch without

1:15:20

the overt agenda.

1:15:23

I think that would make her feel, yeah,

1:15:25

like you're not after something. You're from her,

1:15:27

but you are and I believe

1:15:29

you'll get it. Is

1:15:33

it okay to preface with that to say,

1:15:35

hey, this is not

1:15:37

in these words specifically, but this is not an obligatory

1:15:40

thing for sex. This is just me wanting to contact

1:15:42

you. Is that a... Yes. Would

1:15:45

that ruin the mood? No, I think before the

1:15:46

mood when you do have this conversation

1:15:48

with her and saying, look, I

1:15:51

told you that my love language is touch,

1:15:53

right? And so to say to her, I noticed

1:15:56

I stopped touching you because I'm worried you're going to

1:15:58

feel pressured that I want sex. and

1:16:01

that's not the case. So

1:16:02

I'm gonna stop depriving myself

1:16:04

of touching your gorgeous legs

1:16:06

or your belly. I'm touching you

1:16:08

because I love you and I'm attracted to you

1:16:10

and I want to touch you. Is that

1:16:13

okay with you?

1:16:15

That's all you can do is let her know that

1:16:17

you're gonna take what you want, so to speak.

1:16:20

But you're giving her informed consent on

1:16:22

the front end so that when you are laying together

1:16:25

or sitting on the sofa and you start touching

1:16:27

a part of her body, you're not

1:16:29

having to ask about it. So

1:16:31

you shouldn't have to back off or

1:16:33

deprive

1:16:34

yourself from what you want to need. If

1:16:36

she's uncomfortable with it, she's got

1:16:38

to deal with what her discomfort is.

1:16:41

That's her work and looking at why

1:16:43

she avoids

1:16:44

sex and it's interesting. She's so

1:16:46

stressed out, but

1:16:47

one of the most relaxing things you can do is

1:16:49

have an orgasm.

1:16:51

Sleep better, feel more connected to your

1:16:53

partner. My thoughts too.

1:16:56

Right and yet she's depriving

1:16:58

herself of that pleasure

1:17:00

and that release.

1:17:02

Yeah, and I'm an advocate

1:17:04

for I like lingerie

1:17:07

and toys and especially as I get older

1:17:09

and I'm more comfortable. Mm-hmm.

1:17:12

I assume that's that is common. That's why you're...

1:17:14

Yeah, well, I think I mean I just

1:17:17

think when women have more confidence and they're more

1:17:19

comfortable, they're

1:17:20

more comfortable being seen

1:17:23

having pleasure, right?

1:17:25

Being seen as a sexual being,

1:17:27

watching your partner watch you

1:17:29

get off. There's a maturity

1:17:32

that's required with that as

1:17:34

opposed to you know, having your eyes closed,

1:17:36

feeling squeamish, wondering how your

1:17:38

thighs look. I mean just all of that,

1:17:40

you

1:17:41

know anxiety that goes with younger

1:17:43

women. Oh my god, I was

1:17:46

a terrible lover for decades.

1:17:47

Because

1:17:51

I was those things, you know.

1:17:53

I was self-conscious, you

1:17:55

know,

1:17:57

and maybe you know, Brian too,

1:17:59

that maybe...

1:17:59

The weight was an issue for

1:18:02

her, not feeling sexy.

1:18:06

Brian, I hope we helped, I don't

1:18:08

know, I'm pretty sure I didn't, but I hope Dr.

1:18:11

Alex gave you some things to think about.

1:18:13

Absolutely, I think

1:18:15

that I wasn't looking for a solution,

1:18:18

a 100% solution, I know this is just the beginning

1:18:20

of a road and it's a road that'll

1:18:23

take the rest of our lives and I

1:18:25

have no intention of going anywhere other than

1:18:28

here where my wife's at and it's a

1:18:30

foundation to start with, with conversation,

1:18:32

with just being honest about what

1:18:34

Dr. Alex said about my desires

1:18:37

and just what I can work with and

1:18:39

it's like if all the stress were to disappear

1:18:41

from our lives, that might cause

1:18:43

more sex to happen, but I wanna be in a

1:18:45

relationship where we're

1:18:48

fighting every day to have a better life for our families,

1:18:50

we're fighting every day to have a better careers

1:18:53

and to advance and to improve the

1:18:55

life of our family and friends and

1:18:57

that's, to me, that's a life of stress and

1:18:59

that's a good stress, pushes

1:19:01

us to get better and I wanna have

1:19:04

that relationship while this is all going

1:19:06

on. Exactly. Cause it's never gonna stop.

1:19:08

Yeah,

1:19:08

so if you say to her, I miss my lover,

1:19:11

that's what we're talking about here, there's

1:19:14

nothing fundamentally wrong, nobody's

1:19:16

cheated or stolen or done anything dumb,

1:19:19

it's that you miss your lover and your

1:19:21

friend, your great parents together,

1:19:24

you're working hard, but

1:19:26

there's something that's missing for

1:19:28

you that you really want and you're saying,

1:19:31

we're not gonna wait until the stress is over

1:19:33

because then you'll be dead essentially and

1:19:36

so you're saying let's just fold it into

1:19:38

what we're doing, there's always gonna be something going

1:19:41

on.

1:19:42

And we are in this dynamic and this

1:19:44

is probably a long conversation with Dr. Alex

1:19:47

about our dynamic in

1:19:49

heterosexual

1:19:49

relationships,

1:19:51

but I get off on being

1:19:54

viewed as sexy. Yeah, this is

1:19:56

an interesting

1:19:56

paradox what you're talking

1:19:59

about because.

1:21:59

to find a sex therapist

1:22:02

that you can talk to. A qualified therapist

1:22:04

and everybody's on Zoom right now so it's super

1:22:07

easy to make appointments

1:22:09

with people and

1:22:10

you know if she's

1:22:12

not comfortable talking

1:22:14

with you and you feel like you can't

1:22:16

get any resolution then maybe

1:22:18

it's helpful if there's a third party there. She's

1:22:21

just very receptive and she'll

1:22:23

talk to me about anything. I mean we're best friends

1:22:25

it's not like we're avoiding each

1:22:28

other or anything and we're always near

1:22:30

each other and always around each other and we

1:22:32

talk pretty openly. I think sometimes she

1:22:35

thinks I'm a little hard to read or distant

1:22:37

but what you know every man has a nothing box

1:22:39

or whatever I call it you know it's a room he goes to in his head

1:22:41

where it's just nothing in there and sometimes

1:22:44

that can be a little distracting but

1:22:47

you know for her unreadable but I think for

1:22:49

the most part she's she's

1:22:51

very open and very accepting and

1:22:55

I don't want her to come off through this you know podcast

1:22:57

does anything awful she's the most wonderful

1:22:59

person in the world and she's sexy

1:23:01

and beautiful. Oh

1:23:03

Brian you seem like you have a wonderful

1:23:06

marriage and family. Well I mean we

1:23:09

fight like everybody.

1:23:11

Brian how about this how about

1:23:14

if you do have follow-up questions I would

1:23:16

love to hear from you you know maybe

1:23:18

Dr. Alex will be available to talk again

1:23:20

or we can help with

1:23:23

some other resources too.

1:23:25

I appreciate that. Yeah that sounds good.

1:23:28

And Dr. Alex's contact

1:23:30

info was also on our website.

1:23:32

Oh great okay just in case there's a you

1:23:35

know a question that the follow-up specifically to

1:23:37

this conversation and yeah

1:23:40

maybe just not wanting to necessarily open

1:23:42

up to another stranger. Sure

1:23:44

I mean that's fine you could certainly yeah send

1:23:46

me an email which is on the website.

1:23:49

I appreciate that very much. Thank you

1:23:51

guys very much for allowing me to be here again like I'm

1:23:53

not humiliated to say any of these things

1:23:55

I just I just want to know how to help

1:23:58

my wife. Yeah that sounds great.

1:23:59

really admirable to me and like Anna,

1:24:02

I think it sounds like you've got a wonderful

1:24:04

marriage and part of having a wonderful

1:24:06

marriage is arguing and bickering and

1:24:09

being a human being.

1:24:10

Hey Brian, thank you again and let's please

1:24:13

be in touch.

1:24:13

Absolutely, thank you very much.

1:24:15

Alright, have a wonderful rest of your day.

1:24:17

You too. Thanks

1:24:19

Brian. Bye bye.

1:24:20

Bye Dr. Alex, thank you again,

1:24:23

you're amazing. Thank you, it's been

1:24:25

a lot of fun.