0:03

Now that the calendar has turned to April, the focus

0:06

turns to the drafts. Welcome Bird Gang.

0:08

On today's show, Danny Surrek joins me

0:11

for not even a month into free agency,

0:13

and already you can see the slowdown in player

0:15

signings across the league, not just

0:17

the Cardinals, who do still have plenty

0:19

of needs. Edge Rusher perhaps being

0:21

the biggest though with Jonathan Gannon had to

0:23

say recently about David Collins, maybe

0:26

it's not that big. It's Cardinals

0:28

Cover two, episode seven forty in

0:30

April Fool's Day free episode and

0:33

it starts now.

0:37

Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.

0:39

Go to Baker, What Heart? What

0:41

rent? This guy's unbelievable.

0:44

Cardinals Cover two is presented by

0:46

Hyundai, proud partner of the Arizona

0:49

Cardinals, and by Arizona

0:51

Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals

0:54

dot Com slash podcast.

0:56

He's at a ten, half of five. He's it again?

0:59

So more? Are you magic? Wow?

1:02

Here's Craig Graeler.

1:07

April Fool's Day. Are we in

1:10

or are we out there? Well?

1:13

I'm an adult, so I'm out now.

1:16

You didn't do any anything younger?

1:19

Or is it so? You think this is a

1:21

young person's holiday, despite

1:24

what I saw or attempted to see

1:26

on social media all day long.

1:28

What are you seeing on social media?

1:30

Okay, the Seattle Seahawks, our

1:32

team within the division.

1:33

Oh no, that's different. I was like a team's having.

1:36

Fun, Yeah, having fun

1:38

and announcing that their mascot had retired

1:40

and they had a brand new mascot named Boom.

1:43

I mean, I guess I'm fine with like a little prank,

1:45

but I don't know. It's

1:47

a silly holiday. What do you want me to say?

1:49

Did you participate any again?

1:52

I'm an adult, so no, no, not now. As

1:54

a kid.

1:55

Sure, as a kid before

1:57

you became an adult.

1:59

Sure had a little fun, I'm

2:01

sure.

2:02

But not anymore you're not grown it.

2:04

Yeah, it's kind of treating. I

2:06

mean, they're different ones, like an actual holiday, and this

2:08

is just an excuse for people to be dumb.

2:13

Okay, I

2:15

just sti't think I was expecting this off the top, as if I

2:17

would celebrate April Fool's Day, like, I'm

2:20

no, it's not generous.

2:22

It's not a holiday. It's just I don't know. I

2:24

think I think the holiday or okay,

2:26

it's not a holiday. I think the day is jumped the shark

2:29

because now people are ready

2:31

for it. Anything. Now that

2:34

you say you do you post, people

2:36

are always they take that extra second

2:39

to figure it out. Oh wait, okay, what's

2:41

today?

2:42

And then what's their response? Well that was dumb. Yeah,

2:46

So no, I don't participate.

2:47

Trying to think the last good prank

2:49

on April Fools Day. I don't even I

2:52

don't even know.

2:56

I don't have one.

2:57

Yeah, I don't either. I did pull one

3:00

on my daughter during the pandemic

3:02

because everyone was home virtual at

3:05

school seven am

3:07

or whatever. Walked

3:09

into the room, Hey, quick, got to catch

3:11

the bus. They just announced that school

3:13

was back in session. She flipped,

3:16

that's a good one, and then it said oh wait, April

3:19

Full's Day, and then not

3:22

fun. Then she was upset, and but

3:25

yeah, that's not the only thing. Yeah,

3:27

I just all right, no

3:29

fooling here. On Cardinals

3:31

Cover two, presented by Hundai, proud partner of

3:33

the Arizona Cardinals, it is April

3:36

one. The calendar has shifted from March to April,

3:38

fourth week of free agency. We're

3:41

also less than four weeks until

3:43

the draft, and it is interesting

3:45

because things have gone real

3:48

quiet when it comes to free agency. Not just

3:50

with the Cardinals, but across the league.

3:52

It seems more and more teams

3:54

are looking ahead to the end

3:56

of this month as opposed to, hey, any players

3:59

out there, Not that they're looking or

4:01

discussing, It just seems a lot more

4:03

teams are maybe putting free

4:05

agency bringing in new players on the back

4:08

burner and focusing on those players that

4:10

they can select at the end of the month.

4:12

That makes the most sense. You have

4:14

this big wave of free agency

4:17

right when it hits of these either

4:19

bigger name or position players that

4:22

your team desperately needs to the point where

4:24

even if you use a high draft

4:26

pick or multiple draft picks on a position,

4:29

you would still need more help. Now we're

4:31

at the point where it's going to stay pretty

4:33

quiet until the draft at the end of the month

4:35

comes and goes, and then from there you'll have your

4:37

next wave a free agency once those

4:40

draft picks are in and your team was able

4:42

to see what they were a draft able to address

4:44

and the skill level at each position.

4:47

And then we'll get another wave of free agency

4:49

when you get closer to training camp and you're having

4:51

to construct your roster, and of

4:53

course you have to have ninety players when you're

4:55

starting training camp, so you need bodies.

4:59

But then when cut start to happen, you'll kind of

5:01

figure out, okay, as somebody that we want

5:04

around the league cut or should we go look at

5:06

free agency again. So there's kind of multiple points

5:09

touch points if you will, throughout the off season when

5:11

it comes to free agency. Right now we're in between

5:14

one and two.

5:15

Teams may want to wait to see

5:18

who they select. Players

5:20

may want to wait until after

5:22

the draft to see if there's a team that maybe

5:24

has a need going into the draft didn't

5:26

fill that need. Now all of a sudden,

5:28

maybe free agent to

5:30

be or free agent on the market is a little bit more

5:32

attractive to that team. And the New

5:35

York point, when you get closer to training

5:37

camp, players that have yet

5:39

to sign a little anxious, and

5:41

they become maybe a little

5:43

cheaper than they were maybe

5:46

right now because you're wondering, do I even

5:48

have a job come September and

5:50

you've got bills to pay.

5:52

And then you even get to the point where the season starts,

5:55

and once those rosters are set,

5:57

injuries happen and you can still get picked.

6:00

So again, it doesn't surprise me that the Cardinals,

6:03

much like pretty much every other team around the league

6:06

is quiet at this point because right

6:08

now it is laser focus.

6:10

On the draft. Manti Austin Ford to our

6:12

colleague Darren Urban at the annual league meeting,

6:14

quote, will we wait until after the draft?

6:17

I'd say in some cases, yes, but there might

6:19

be certain situations that haven't presented

6:21

themselves yet. We are still actively

6:24

talking to players out there. End quote.

6:26

Cardinals have nine new players

6:28

that they added via free agency, all

6:31

within the first six days.

6:33

They haven't signed anyone since Evan Brown on

6:35

March twentieth. There are still

6:37

a handful of positions that I

6:40

least think need to be addressed, whether

6:43

that happens now or later. I

6:46

don't think you can just address certain

6:48

positions in the draft alone,

6:51

I e. Edge Rusher. I'd

6:53

like to see someone else in that

6:55

room outside of just a new

6:58

draft pick. I think it's a room that's lacking

7:00

a veteran. Now who that is.

7:03

There are names out there. I would

7:05

just like to see a little bit more activity

7:08

in that room. Considering the lack of activity

7:10

when it came to sacks

7:13

pressuring quarterbacks that we saw

7:15

last season.

7:15

I agree. I think there are players that are poised

7:18

to have a big jump

7:20

this year. Bjo

7:23

Jalari is one that comes to mind, coming

7:26

off his rookieyear where he did not have

7:29

a full off season as he was rehabbing an

7:31

injury, and I think getting comfortable with what

7:33

his position, coach Robradriguez is asking

7:35

of him, along with defensive coordinator Nick

7:37

Rolis. I can see that as a player having

7:40

a big jump, a player that I

7:43

would want to see a big jump. I'm still

7:45

curious to see what that will look like. Will be Zavin

7:47

Collins because this will be year

7:50

two into his full transition

7:53

outside and again

7:55

similar to bj in the sense of having another

7:57

full off season now with the coaching staff

7:59

and they're looking from him.

8:02

It makes sense to me that the

8:04

Cardinals did not sign a big name

8:07

pass rusher. The Cardinals

8:10

are still in a transition phase for

8:12

a big name pass rusher that

8:15

costs a lot of money. One,

8:18

I'm not sure the Cardinals are in a position to do that

8:20

and spend money in one big position like

8:22

that when they have so many needs across

8:24

the board, which they are clearly addressing. Two.

8:28

If you are a big player and you're looking for

8:30

your next big contract, realistically

8:32

is this a place you want to play possibly.

8:35

I mean that the team is on the up and up. The culture

8:37

is getting not just I want

8:39

to say rave reviews, but it's noticeable

8:42

around the league. Clearly we heard that from every

8:44

single free agent that came into the

8:46

building. After signing with the Cardinals,

8:49

you can see that the Cardinals are trending in the right

8:51

direction for a player to require

8:54

a big contract. Is this where you want

8:56

to be or is there another team that's offering you something

8:58

that's maybe more like to have

9:00

a couple of years of a playoff push that comes

9:02

into play now. I agree, I would

9:04

like to see a veteran sign

9:07

here. I don't think it will be a big splash

9:09

player. And

9:11

that's also because I want to see a player

9:14

here because this is not a deep edge

9:16

draft class. And again, you clearly

9:18

need help because the numbers were not there. The

9:21

Cardinals won't want six games without a

9:23

sack or they had one sack and it was when Justin

9:25

Fields was pushed out of bounds by Dennis Gardack in

9:27

Chicago. I mean, clearly

9:31

they need help there. They do need a veteran presence,

9:33

They need some production on a consistent

9:36

basis out there and you would like to see

9:38

a big name player that's just not where in my

9:40

opinion, the Cardinals are right now where

9:43

that makes sense to put all of that money

9:45

into one player at one position,

9:48

and they still like to have a rotation. I think that

9:50

going into year two, defensive coordinator Nick

9:53

Raalis, we're still getting an idea

9:55

of what he wants and what type of rotation he wants

9:57

because the defense had so many injuries last

10:00

year. There's just so much

10:02

that still needs to be done in this year

10:04

to continue to trend upwards, and that we need

10:06

to learn about this team and this defense

10:08

specifically, that it makes sense

10:11

that they did not sign a big splash

10:13

pass rusher and why I

10:15

would still like to see a veteran, even if

10:17

it's a smaller name, sign

10:19

after the draft and see what they do in the draft.

10:21

Could have also gone the trade market,

10:24

which the Jets did acquiring Hassan

10:26

Reddick. There's a name now. He

10:28

did not get a new contract as part

10:30

of this deal, so the Jets are getting him

10:32

on a one year deal, and whether they decide to keep them

10:35

or not cost them a conditional third

10:37

round pick can be a second round pick based off

10:39

playing time, and if Reddick gets ten

10:41

sacks, I thought, even a second

10:43

round pick, that seems awful high

10:46

a high price to pay, especially

10:48

for just one year. Reddick

10:51

was a name that we've discussed a couple of different

10:53

times because of the familiarity

10:55

here with the Cardinals. It is a need,

10:58

but it's okay, do you have the draft capitol high

11:00

enough to get the Eagles to part

11:02

with that player? And then you got to make that decision,

11:05

all right, you have them, is it a one

11:07

year and you're out or you going to

11:09

resign? And if you're going to sign Reddick,

11:11

he wants money. To your point, that's

11:13

a high price to pay for one player

11:16

when you have ten others and those on the

11:18

bench that you

11:20

still have to figure out roles for those players.

11:22

As well along with Reddick. I mean,

11:24

Brian Burns was another name I think that was discussed,

11:27

and i've that is the

11:29

direction I was saying I was

11:31

really in favor of right at the start of the offseason,

11:33

is the Cardinals have so much draft

11:36

capital, eleven picks, six in the

11:38

top one hundred. I

11:40

in my opinion, they absolutely have the capital

11:42

to where they could I don't want to

11:44

say could have because I guess the draft hasn't happened,

11:47

so it could still surprise usn't happen. But

11:50

make a trade with one of those

11:52

picks, maybe twenty seven in the first round,

11:54

and you acquire a veteran and experienced

11:56

pass rusher ideally

11:59

would have two years left in their contract to

12:01

the point where not coming in in a contract year,

12:03

and then you're having to decide that's absolutely

12:05

a route that the Cardinals can still take.

12:08

I'm just not sure if at this point

12:11

there's a player out there or a team

12:13

willing to kind of make that trade to have a player

12:15

that would fit here. Maybe there is. I think that would

12:17

be a great option, and.

12:18

I just don't know if that's something that Moni

12:21

likes to do as far as roster construction,

12:24

as far as going out and acquiring, you

12:26

have to give up something to get, and

12:29

I think he just prefers one.

12:31

We know it's all about the draft, and then

12:34

you fill those holes, supplements

12:36

those additions in free

12:38

agency, as going out and

12:41

doing what the Cardinals did a couple of years ago, parting

12:43

with the first round pick for Hollywood Brown. At

12:45

the time, you're like, okay, it's

12:49

the known versus the unknown, and then of course a

12:51

couple of years later like well, that was a high price

12:53

to pay for very little production for someone

12:55

who at times couldn't stay on the

12:57

football field. So that's that's the given take

13:00

when you're doing this, and you always aim

13:02

to get younger as opposed to get older, And

13:04

if you're acquiring a player in the trade,

13:07

that's typically those more

13:09

veteran players that are available. And

13:11

then again it goes back to all right, they're

13:14

higher value because

13:17

they're making more money as well.

13:20

I just don't know if the Cardinal's right now are

13:22

in a position where they can

13:25

afford to do that they didn't afford to, But I just

13:27

don't think that's something that they want to do at this moment.

13:29

As far as year two with Mani.

13:31

And JJ using those draft picks to draft

13:35

incoming rookies rather than make

13:37

a trade, that does kind of feel more like awesome

13:39

FOURDSMO.

13:40

I agree, And then you hope that those players

13:42

that you did draft you brought up. B Jo Jolari

13:45

did not have a full offseason. He was

13:47

still dealing with an injury around

13:50

the pre draft process, and

13:52

I think it took a little bit a while for

13:54

him to kind of get his feet underneath him.

13:57

I don't know if we saw enough of him,

13:59

And a lot of it is when you're rotating

14:02

a lot of those players on the edge,

14:04

sometimes it's hard to get a feel for

14:07

the game. Well you've seen this though.

14:09

That's what the Cardinals like to do defensively,

14:12

is rotate on that front seven. But

14:14

we've talked about it with James Connor. You can't rotate

14:18

a running back because Connor gets better

14:20

as the game goes along. I wonder if for some

14:22

of those defensive players keep

14:24

me on the field because what I do now I'm

14:27

setting someone up for later on down

14:30

the road. And if I keep getting pulled

14:32

out in this rotation, Yeah, I want to stay fresh,

14:34

but it's also learning

14:36

from what is in front of you. What's that offensive

14:39

tackle doing to impede me

14:41

from getting behind him? Then you figure

14:43

it out. Well, now I'm on the sideline and maybe

14:45

I don't get another.

14:46

Opportunity, right,

14:48

But not to sound, I mean that's

14:50

what the situation is. Yes, not to sound,

14:53

I guess, so blunt, but like too bad, so

14:55

sad. If that's how you feel, that's what your DC wants

14:57

to run and that's what it is, and he sees pros

15:00

and cons in that and keeping the

15:02

offensive line or whoever is blocking you

15:04

on their toes because of that rotation. And

15:07

there while you might feel like as a as

15:09

a pass rusher, you might not be able to fully

15:11

get comfortable, Well, whoever's blocking you

15:13

is absolutely not comfortable if there is a rotation

15:16

throughout the entire game and they're constantly seeing

15:18

new players and new things happening in front

15:21

of them. I mean, if that's the argument

15:23

of I'm not getting enough consistent reps to really

15:25

feel like I am getting into the game, I

15:28

would tell you, okay, well, figure

15:30

out your warmups, figure out what you do in practice

15:32

to where you need fewer reps to feel

15:34

like you can really get in the groove.

15:36

Know that those opportunities you get are

15:38

going to be limited, so make the most of those

15:40

opportunities. And I think we saw

15:42

it a handful of times with all of those

15:45

edge rushers. Dennis Card concluded, we

15:47

just didn't see any standouts from

15:49

any of those guys on a consistent

15:51

basis. No one, I've said this before, no

15:54

one scared you coming off the edge.

15:57

Well that's my rebuttal to you of saying of

16:00

what the rotation not being able to really

16:02

get going is. When you're looking at the personnel,

16:05

do you think that we really would have seen different numbers with

16:07

less of a rotation. I don't think so.

16:10

Maybe not with a less of rotation, but with

16:13

the production, there was not enough

16:16

production from those guys. Despite the rotation.

16:20

You should have seen more production, is what I'm getting.

16:22

A more production from an Ojelari,

16:24

from a Cameron Thomas, from a Dennis

16:27

Gardak, even with a limited number

16:29

of steps, there just wasn't enough. That's

16:32

why we're in the position we're in right now, at least for

16:34

me that you have to address

16:36

edge rusher at some point there has to be more

16:39

bodies put in there that are going to give you that

16:41

production despite however many STAPs

16:43

you get.

16:44

Okay, I don't think we're on the same page, but I think we're getting

16:46

to the same endpoint.

16:48

Do you just the cardinals?

16:50

I think I took it as you're saying. If

16:53

someone like Zavin Collins or be Jesualar or

16:55

Dennis Gardak was not being

16:57

rotated out of the game as much and they were getting more

16:59

REPI you would see a significant jumping in

17:02

production, and I don't necessarily

17:04

think those two are correlated.

17:05

No, some guys do operate better if you

17:07

have more opportunities, more bites at the apple

17:10

and others. It's okay to your point, you're

17:12

getting ten snaps. What are you doing

17:14

with those ten snaps? Right?

17:15

But I'm talking about the Cardinals players specifically.

17:18

I don't necessarily think we would have seen a correlation

17:20

of loss of a rotation and Xavin's

17:23

sack numbers would have gone up by double

17:25

digits.

17:27

Those numbers, those snaps might have increased

17:29

if Zavion or whomever was showing

17:32

a better aptitude to get to the quarterback.

17:35

I think their snap counts would would

17:37

have been higher if there was more production. But

17:40

now it's that chicken or the egg thing. Are

17:42

you getting the higher production because of the

17:44

higher snaps or are you just taking advantage

17:46

of the opportunity. We talked about Zavon Collins

17:49

a couple of times. What did you think

17:52

of his first year as an

17:54

outside linebacker, knowing

17:56

that brand new position

17:58

and a brand new position coach for him

18:01

coming in after a couple of years

18:03

on the inside, new coaching change,

18:06

and now all of a sudden they're moving them to outside linebacker.

18:09

I think you saw sparks. I

18:11

think it does say

18:14

a lot all of those things you were mentioning of

18:16

making a position change outside

18:18

fully while also adjusting to

18:20

a new coaching staff and a new defensive

18:22

scheme. That's not easy. I

18:25

would not be surprised if they don't pick up his fifth

18:27

year option in May. I'm

18:29

not sure that there was enough in that one

18:32

year of what you saw from him to

18:34

really warrant that. And

18:37

again with we've talked about this plenty

18:39

of times with this new front office, of

18:41

no allegiance. Xavan Collins

18:44

is not a money awesome for it draft pick. That's

18:46

not to say that Collins is not respected

18:49

and Osford doesn't see a future with him. There's

18:51

just no allegiance. I

18:54

would like to see more of a jump in Zaban

18:56

when it comes to production. Something

18:59

that has been said about this current

19:01

coaching staff as well as the previous coaching

19:03

staff when it comes to Collins is trusting

19:08

his instinct and his knowledge and

19:10

not thinking so much and reacting

19:12

more not just on natural ability,

19:15

but on the preparation that he's done,

19:17

which is interesting Originally

19:19

being inside with previous

19:21

offensive coordinator Vance Joseph and trying to figure

19:23

out a role for him, figuring

19:26

out whether Collins would wear the green dot.

19:28

Moving him outside a little and then now moving fully

19:31

outside. Seems like this will

19:33

be a good fit in the sense

19:35

of not having to be aware

19:37

of so much going on the

19:39

way he was when he was an inside linebacker.

19:43

I think that's just an interesting something

19:46

interesting to note of multiple coaching staffs

19:48

as that's been noticeable. So I think

19:51

in order for Collins to have a jump, it seems like

19:53

that's a main area he's going to need

19:55

to work on, is not

19:57

thinking so much and delaying

20:01

what he's doing every snap and

20:03

just reacting more.

20:05

If you think, all of a sudden, you're now

20:08

a half step a full step behind as

20:10

opposed to just reacting. Something

20:12

Jonathan Gannon mentioned at the annual League meeting

20:15

talking about Zavon Collins making that move

20:17

from inside to outside. Quote

20:20

at that position, there's times where we talk

20:22

to him about, hey, man, like you just got

20:24

to cut it loose. You can't overthink

20:26

this end quote. I think Xavion,

20:29

and it's no fault of his own, wants

20:31

to be perfect, do

20:33

things right, and all of a sudden, everything's

20:36

happening so fast, and you're

20:40

going back to what you did during the week, what

20:42

you saw on film, and you're thinking

20:44

back to what was discussed or

20:47

taught on Wednesday, Thursday of Friday. Can't

20:49

do that on game day. You just have to

20:52

go do And I wonder

20:54

if that's a process for Xavon

20:56

Collins to learn now going into year

20:58

four and this coach staff ago It's okay,

21:02

you can make mistakes, but

21:04

just make sure you're making those right

21:07

mistakes as far as just

21:09

go out play a little bit more

21:11

freer as opposed to being

21:13

isolated in a box, making sure you don't

21:15

do something you're not supposed to do

21:18

and get out.

21:18

Of that zone and learning from your mistakes

21:21

the same way. I think a younger player

21:23

like bjo Jalari would benefit

21:25

greatly from a seasoned veteran

21:27

in that room. I think the same for Xavion Collins.

21:30

Yes he might, he might be entering year

21:32

four in the league. He's still inexperienced

21:35

at the position he's playing now. I think that

21:38

that's another pro of bringing a veteran

21:40

into that room.

21:41

Forty one tackles three and a half

21:43

sacks for Zavon Collins production

21:45

that not great,

21:48

though, what are we missing from

21:50

what we see versus what the coaches

21:52

see? Because, again Gannon at

21:55

the annual league meeting, quote, he's got

21:57

all the tools he's shown on tape. He can do

21:59

everything that we need need to do to be a premium

22:01

player for us end quote. Sometimes

22:05

I think we're missing because what

22:07

do we see the end result what

22:09

shows up on the stat sheet? Are the coaches

22:12

seeing something different based off what they're asking

22:14

him to do? Talking about Zavon as

22:16

far as rushing, dropping into coverage,

22:18

that's where he really exceled at he showed

22:20

the best improvement by far as

22:22

far as his coverage ability. This

22:25

season. He had a quarterback rating of forty

22:27

one compared to ninety four

22:29

his first two years in the league, So

22:31

he's improved that area. And I think

22:34

we look at the thirty three sacks, third

22:36

fewest in the league. One sack of the last

22:38

six games. Are

22:41

the coaches asking

22:43

for something else? Are they okay

22:45

with what the players are

22:47

giving them even though it's not manifesting

22:50

itself in a stat sheet.

22:52

I think that could be a big possibility.

22:55

And what we've heard from Zavin's

22:58

teammates and coaches talking about

23:01

the physical attributes that he has.

23:03

He has the size and

23:05

the strength and the physicalities to succeed

23:07

at this position. He has the intelligence

23:10

absolutely. I think Xavin's just very detail

23:13

oriented and he's very meticulous in what

23:15

he does. And you can pick that up just talking

23:18

to him and being around him and watching him practice

23:20

and stay late after practice and getting

23:23

one on one reps with his position

23:25

coach. I would just like to see

23:28

the trust in himself to

23:31

not be in his head so much, which is what we

23:33

have consistently heard from coaching staffs,

23:36

to really just go out

23:38

there and let it rip and do what he does

23:40

and see what we get from that. And I think

23:42

if you have a veteran or

23:45

at least you know, some sort of monster on the other

23:47

end of him, that might take some of the pressure

23:49

off and he will be able to shine and

23:51

what the staff is asking for him asking of him.

23:54

Pro Football Reference also had Collins

23:56

listed with the second most hurries and

23:58

pressures. Again that it's a stat

24:01

that depending on which team

24:03

measures those differently, but are

24:05

you doing enough to affect the opposing quarterback?

24:08

And I just overall this Cardinals

24:10

team a year ago didn't do enough.

24:12

Now we always hear rush, cover,

24:15

cover, rush. Was it the rush that was

24:17

affecting the cover where the Cardinals had

24:19

one of the higher completion percentages against

24:22

them as a defense, or was it the

24:24

coverage units weren't doing their job

24:27

allowing that quarterback to have

24:29

or hold onto the ball so much that the

24:32

defense, as even Collins and a b jo Asiola

24:35

could get to the quarterback and increase those

24:37

sack totals.

24:38

Both the Cardinals were bad against

24:41

the run. They were bad against the pass. I don't

24:44

know that it would be easy to really decipher

24:46

which one it was from last year.

24:48

You finish what twenty ninth and passing defense

24:50

thirty second and run neither

24:53

are great, So I yes, they absolutely

24:55

go hand in hand. I can't sit here and tell you whether

24:57

it was more the run defense and more

24:59

of the pass defense that led to the

25:01

performance overall the defense, because

25:04

individually they were both bad.

25:07

Has to get a heck of a lot better on that

25:09

front seven. Whether that happens, well,

25:12

we've already seen it on the defensive line,

25:14

but more on the way perhaps with

25:16

the draft. The other position offensively

25:19

that hasn't really been touched outside of the addition

25:22

of Chris Moore is wide receiver

25:24

right now? Well, you go

25:26

in with what Michael Wilson, Greg Dortch

25:28

and Zach Pascal. You had Chris Moore, You've got

25:30

a handful of other players on the team.

25:33

Are you banking on finding that number

25:35

one wide receiver at the end of this month?

25:38

Absolutely?

25:39

So, you're not in the camp of a

25:42

trade down.

25:43

I didn't say that, Okay.

25:46

You still feel even if it's not at four,

25:49

eleven.

25:50

Twelve, I'm not saying that.

25:51

Okay, how far are you willing to go or are you

25:54

not willing to go down at all?

25:55

No, I'd be willing to trade down for

25:58

a true from what we've seen from

26:00

analysts and what people are projecting,

26:03

a true number one. I

26:05

feel really comfortable going down to six

26:07

with New York. Who's at

26:09

eight? Is that Denver?

26:11

Eight is the Falcons? Denver's

26:13

twelve, Vikings

26:16

thirteen eleven?

26:18

Sorry, Raiders are thirteen?

26:22

To go down to eleven, twelve or thirteen,

26:24

assuming you're making a trade with a

26:26

team who wants to get a franchise quarterback

26:28

in this draft, I

26:31

wouldn't go into that trade expecting

26:33

to get one of the top three receivers. There

26:35

are other receivers I would feel comfortable

26:37

with. I think if I'm trading down

26:39

to eleven, twelve, or thirteen, I am shifting

26:42

my

26:44

my philosophy, not my philosophy, maybe

26:46

my plan, a little bit of

26:50

not being set on a wide receiver, maybe

26:53

taking a tackle, maybe taking

26:55

one of the top interior defensive linemen

26:58

more likely a tackle or cornerback

27:00

if they feel really high on one of these top

27:03

two cornerbacks and a draft that does not have

27:05

a lot of cornerback depth. And

27:07

then addressing wide receiver at

27:10

twenty seven or the very top of

27:12

round two. And then kind of if you take twenty

27:14

seven with a wide receiver, addressing

27:16

an offensive lineman at the top of round two

27:18

kind of interchangeable there. So it's

27:21

kind of all of the above. I would absolutely

27:24

love the idea of taking a top receiver at four.

27:26

I would be willing to trade down and

27:28

still take a wide receiver, and I'd also be willing

27:30

to trade down and open

27:33

up my mind to other possibilities.

27:36

However, if you're asking what I'd prefer, I'd

27:40

love to stay it four or I'd love to

27:42

go no further than six to guarantee

27:45

a top receiver.

27:47

After the second meeting against the

27:49

forty nine ers, I was adamant

27:51

this team won, needed a pass

27:54

rush and one

27:56

be a number one

27:58

wide receiver. Haven't

28:01

really answered either one of those questions

28:03

yet here as we speak on April first.

28:06

But if I was to ask you, name me the

28:09

number one wide receiver in the league,

28:11

who you feel is the best wide receiver

28:13

in the league is who?

28:16

Maybe A Justin Jefferson.

28:18

You know where he was selected.

28:21

I know you feel this way, Craig, you don't

28:23

think it's worth the rest to take a wide receiver at

28:25

the top of the draft. I'm just saying

28:28

it's very old school, but that's okay.

28:30

Justin Jefferson was a twenty second overall

28:32

pick, and I'm in

28:34

agreement. If he's not the best wide receiver

28:36

in the league, he's one of the best. There

28:39

is no guarantee that any of these three Marvin

28:42

moleik Rome, none

28:45

of them, maybe all of them. I

28:48

just I don't know. I

28:51

am comfortable though, in whatever Manny Austin Ford

28:53

decides to do. I

28:55

would love to see if Marvin Harrison Junior

28:58

was here. Roma Doonze, I

29:00

don't want to call you out.

29:01

But that's so contradictory.

29:04

You don't want to take a wide receiver at the top of

29:06

the draft because of the risk, But then

29:08

a draft Marvin Harris, I'm.

29:10

Not saying that there's a risk. I'm

29:12

saying you can find wide receiver elsewhere,

29:16

and history shows that you can.

29:18

I'm that that is still being said.

29:21

Someone like a Brian Thomas junior out of LSU

29:24

still a top receiver and if he were in probably

29:26

any other recent draft class, would be getting

29:29

higher remarks if he were not in a draft class

29:31

with what's been said as arguably three

29:33

of the best receivers entering

29:36

a draft in a very long time. Every

29:38

year is different, so yes

29:40

and years past it might be it might

29:42

not be worth it of taking a wide receiver in

29:44

the top ten, definitely fourth

29:47

overall, because you can still

29:49

get other good receivers. This year feels

29:51

different, and what analysts are saying

29:54

after watching film and seeing workouts

29:56

and the measurements that some

29:58

of these top receivers, this trio of top

30:01

receivers is so good that they would

30:03

warrant all being taken in the

30:05

top six or eight picks. So

30:07

while I understand the philosophy of looking at

30:09

where Justin Jefferson was drafted. That's

30:12

not this draft. The reality is, to

30:14

a certain extent, every draft

30:17

is unique. Yes, there are those prime positions.

30:19

Yes, addressing the trenches is incredibly

30:21

important.

30:24

With these three specific receivers,

30:26

that's what makes it unique and different in

30:29

this draft class. And then after

30:31

those three, I'm not saying you would

30:33

take someone like a Brian Thomas with the eighth

30:35

overall pick. That's not what anybody's

30:37

saying. I

30:39

didn't mean to call you out, so very contradictory of

30:41

I don't want to take a wide receiver top of the draft because

30:44

you can get one later. But if Monti Austin for it takes Marvin

30:46

Harrison Junior or four, I'm happy with it.

30:47

No, it's trusting those that watch

30:50

the film, and it's not just watching the film, because

30:52

all we see is highlights. That's why the

30:55

fan base here will go out

30:57

of their minds if Marvin

30:59

Harrison Junior not the pick. But

31:02

and I'll put myself with the fans.

31:04

As far as level of knowledge about

31:06

the player or any player, that's

31:09

just a small piece what you watch

31:11

on film. I don't know what these players

31:14

are like the individual As

31:16

Jonathan Gannon likes to say, will they pay

31:18

the price of admission? Because

31:20

it's more than just catching the ball. It's

31:23

more than just getting open and catching the ball. As Gannon

31:25

likes to say, with the wide receiver position, can

31:28

they block? Are they team first? We

31:30

have no way of knowing any of this, and

31:33

I guarantee you not all those three wide receivers

31:36

are going to be all pros hall of famers.

31:38

No one is saying that. I'm not saying

31:40

here, Okay, I'm not sitting here saying all

31:42

three are guaranteed Hall of famers.

31:45

If you look and what you read, everyone

31:50

top three, number one in

31:52

their individual classes. So you

31:54

just said it. They just so happen to fall within the

31:56

same draft class this year. But the

31:58

way everyone is talking, everyone

32:00

is talking up these players to where if they are not

32:03

Hall of famers, it's a failure

32:06

and no one knows that.

32:08

Okay, well, I guess I'm not seeing that because

32:10

I would never sit here and say that if

32:12

a draft pick is not a Hall of Famer, it's a failure

32:14

for somebody who has never touched an NFL

32:17

field.

32:17

No, the generational talents and

32:19

the way that these three have been talked up

32:22

that they cannot fail. It

32:25

goes back. This is more,

32:28

This is longer ago, but it's that Peyton

32:30

Manning and Ryan Leaf all. You can't go wrong with

32:32

either one of them. All

32:34

the Colts found success, Chargers

32:38

didn't.

32:39

Yeah, but hindsight, it's always twenty twenty.

32:41

Yeah, but we're gonna be talking about a different

32:43

group of players a year from now

32:45

that you can't miss with X player

32:48

or this position group because

32:50

every draft class is unique,

32:52

and yet it's stocked at wide

32:54

receiver, it's stocked at

32:56

offensive tackle. But we have

32:58

no way of knowing how these players are going

33:00

to be.

33:01

It's just a projection for every position. They're not

33:03

just wide receiver.

33:04

But why is this position group this year

33:07

talks so highly when

33:09

we've yet to see them do anything.

33:12

I'm confused because that's every position

33:14

that every player in the draft that's being talked about

33:16

is we haven't seen them do anything. Why

33:18

is it just wide receiver?

33:20

This wide receiver this year has

33:22

been more talked about. Yes, receiver

33:26

class.

33:26

The talent is very

33:29

high for these for these wide receivers.

33:31

When you have the first group of how you

33:33

would classify

33:35

that.

33:36

I just don't like the talk. It seems

33:38

more definite than a

33:40

projection.

33:42

I feel like that happens every year. It's

33:44

typically just a quarterback. It just

33:46

so happens that there are a

33:48

lot of good wide receivers, and it seems like the

33:50

last couple of months the gap between

33:52

them has closed.

33:54

Be Marvin's no longer head and shoulders,

33:56

everyone else has caught

33:59

up or people

34:01

are seeing more reading more to where it's

34:03

now. Maybe Marvin wasn't so

34:05

high in that Hindercram, not at all.

34:07

I've seen Roma Dunday and the lak neighbors close

34:09

the gap on the Okay, and then.

34:11

You talk about the quarterback position, I guarantee

34:13

you that all three quarterbacks you want

34:15

to throw in JJ McCarthy, all four, none

34:18

of them, not all four are going to hit.

34:20

Well, yeah, that's every year.

34:23

But the way, and maybe

34:25

it's.

34:25

Just me, you're sounding like a hater.

34:27

No, no, no, I'm just the way that this

34:30

draft talk is has become.

34:33

And I think because there's so much

34:35

time between the

34:37

end of the season and the draft, that

34:40

these players you get elevated

34:43

so high and then all of

34:45

a sudden there's a major fall.

34:48

What else is everyone going to talk about from the end of the

34:50

season to the draft, what three four

34:53

months later. I mean, every

34:55

draft pick is a risk. Greater

34:58

risks absolutely, of course if you're

35:00

picking somebody fourth overall,

35:02

that's honestly every position. I'm

35:05

not just calling you out. It just feels very old school

35:07

that it's like, oh, it's too much of a risk if we

35:10

take that on a position player, like a wide receiver.

35:12

But if we draft an offensive tackle at four

35:14

and they don't pan out to be you know, a pillar

35:16

for the next ten years, well that's okay,

35:18

Like we tried. Like it feels very like intentional

35:21

of like the difference being it's a position player

35:24

rather than somebody in the trenches,

35:26

which is a typical fourth round pick, typically

35:28

a quarterback or you know, a pass

35:31

rusher or an offense tackle. But the fact that it's

35:33

a position player, everyone's all, oh,

35:35

is it worth the risk? Well, every pick

35:37

is a risk.

35:39

Oh, I'm not doubting any of that. I

35:41

just I just think the conversation has gotten

35:43

so loud at wide

35:45

receiver and certainly these three quarterbacks

35:48

you want to throw in McCarthy four. I haven't seen

35:51

Michael Pennix junior all of a sudden, his

35:53

stock rising based off of his

35:56

pro day late last week, and none

35:58

of these guys have done anything since

36:00

January, no new

36:03

tape outside of pro days,

36:05

which is basically flag

36:08

football without a defense. You're

36:10

not in pads, there's no one

36:13

coming after you. You should be good on

36:15

your pro day. It would be a

36:17

telling sign if you weren't successful

36:20

on your Pro day. I'm just

36:24

more cautious

36:26

when it comes to these players and

36:28

what I've read, and I'm

36:30

like, I'm not willing

36:33

to sit here and say, all right, you take

36:36

that player and you've got ten twelve

36:38

years all pro.

36:41

I don't think you can do that with any one of these

36:43

players, regardless of position. And

36:45

too many people out there are doing

36:47

that to these kids, agreed.

36:51

I mean that happens every year, though every year

36:53

you get.

36:53

Doesn't it just seems

36:56

a lot louder. Maybe it's because the Cardinals have

36:58

a top five pick a

37:00

year ago is Will Anderson with

37:02

the Cardinals.

37:03

But yeah, that's what I'm confused about, is the

37:06

frustration of all this loud

37:08

talk and hyping up players when this is what happens

37:11

every year this time of year heading into the draft.

37:13

It's just maybe it's not one

37:15

position group outside of quarterbacks like

37:17

it is this year.

37:19

I still feel, again,

37:23

given one year of

37:25

a resume, that the Cardinals

37:27

will trade down from number

37:29

four, and it won't happen before

37:31

the draft. It will happen on draft day. That's

37:34

how I it's my feeling right

37:37

now as we speak on April first,

37:39

And of course if that happens, that's now

37:41

three straight years for you

37:44

on draft Day in which the Cardinals do not hang

37:46

on to their initial first

37:48

round pick.

37:49

I could see a trade happening with awesome for it,

37:51

for sure. I mean, they have the leverage.

37:54

There are plenty of teams below them that desperately

37:56

need a quarterback.

37:58

Is there a price that you're not

38:00

willing to pay or accept as far

38:02

as an offer for that fourth pick or

38:05

what would it take for you to say, all right, do

38:08

it or no, it's not enough

38:10

to get me off in number four.

38:12

Depends how low I'm trading to

38:16

six, four

38:19

to six, keeping twenty seven

38:23

for an additional Well, if

38:25

you know they're taking fourth, yeah, if you know that. I

38:27

mean the Cardinals have their

38:29

own system of figuring out, you

38:33

know, statistically and looking at the numbers,

38:36

what trade is worth it for them? And

38:38

how do they come out on top? You

38:42

probably won't get an additional first round pick,

38:44

only moving down two spots, so yeah, probably

38:46

a second and a third.

38:47

You need to see or to hear

38:49

what the package is before you'd be saying, all right,

38:51

I'm willing to go to eleven, twelve or thirteen.

38:54

Absolutely. If I'm

38:56

going to eleven, twelve and thirteen, I'm getting at least one

38:59

future first round pick.

39:00

Oh, I think you need more. I think you need at least

39:02

two, maybe even a three. And

39:04

don't and remember a swap of first round

39:06

picks is not.

39:07

A first round No, I'm not saying that you think someone like

39:09

Minnesota would give you a first round pick for

39:11

twenty five, twenty six, and twenty No, no, no, because.

39:13

It's a swap, so that doesn't count.

39:15

Okay, two extra first round picks.

39:18

Plus, it's what the forty nine ers did

39:20

when they moved up to get Trey Lance. You swapped,

39:23

plus it was a future to future

39:25

first an additional third round

39:27

pick. So it's

39:29

not no, no, no no, because people

39:31

say that all the time. But you're not getting a third

39:33

first round pick, so

39:36

it's it's got to be at least two first round picks,

39:39

and then some at least for me to drop.

39:41

Down eleven far for someone to get a franchise

39:43

quarterback.

39:44

And then you roll the dice like the Cardinals did a year ago

39:46

with the Texans. You hope that

39:49

that history doesn't repeat itself and you have a

39:51

higher pick as opposed to pick twenty

39:53

seven.

39:54

Now that's a possibility, and I don't.

39:55

Think history should dissway

39:58

many as far as well. It didn't work a year go, I

40:00

can't do it this year.

40:01

Yeah, I agree.

40:02

C J.

40:02

Strau just went off.

40:03

I don't think that's I don't think that's fair

40:07

based off past history leading to

40:10

future decisions.

40:11

Agreed.

40:12

I think everything has to be the same. By the way.

40:14

Charles Davis, who we had a chance to speak with in

40:16

Indianapolis at the scouting combine his

40:18

second mock drafts no Trades,

40:21

quarterbacks go one, two and three, Caleb

40:23

Williams, Drake May, Jaden Daniels, Marvin

40:25

Harrison Junior to the Cardinals at four. Then

40:28

he had Malik Neighbors, rom Madouonze go five

40:30

and six to the Chargers and Giants, respectively.

40:33

A new name at number twenty seven,

40:35

Center out of West Virginia Zach Frasier

40:38

six three three ten second center

40:40

off the board, someone who does have center

40:43

experience more than thirty starts, just

40:45

don't know if he's played any interior

40:48

offensive line as far as guard, then

40:50

you could place him on the left side

40:52

next to Fole if he doesn't beat out frole

40:54

to be your starting center.

40:55

And it'll be interesting after signing Johanna Williams

40:58

what the Cardinals are

41:00

going to do with tackle, because I would

41:03

think that going into the draft you need to have a good

41:05

idea at that point of what you're gonna do with Williams

41:07

or Paris Johnson junior, who's going to play

41:09

on which side? Are you going to

41:11

try and kick one of them inside? And then that's

41:13

going to give you intel on what you're needing to address

41:16

in the draft, given you won't see

41:18

Paris or Williams out on the field

41:20

beforehand. But I think they

41:23

need to have a good idea if they didn't have one set

41:25

by signing Williams of still making

41:27

that decision, it'll be interesting

41:30

if they take a center. I

41:32

mean, they need guard help, so I would think

41:34

if they're going to take an interior offensive

41:36

lineman in the first round. It

41:38

would be somebody with versatility who at least

41:40

has experience at

41:43

the guard position as well, because that's

41:45

a pretty big need on the offensive line for Arizona

41:48

right now.

41:48

I'm more out to see an offensive lineman, an

41:50

interior offensive lineman as opposed to another

41:52

tackle at eleven,

41:55

twelve, thirteen. If you trade down

41:57

or twenty seven or even the

42:00

already five, it wouldn't shock

42:02

me. But based off what you said, you're not signing

42:04

Jonah Williams.

42:05

For as much as you did two year.

42:08

Deal, but then after one year gonna say,

42:10

all right, now you're the swing tackle. That doesn't

42:12

seem to make a whole lot of sense unless someone

42:14

that they really like falls

42:16

and you're like, Okay, this is just too talent

42:19

of a player to leave on the board and we'll figure

42:21

it out later. Because if Williams is here for two

42:23

years and this guy, this new one you brought in, can

42:25

be a ten year guy, well,

42:28

then all right, play interior and then

42:30

we'll kick you out. I mean to

42:32

tackle that kick you out of the right building.

42:34

So it'll be interesting to see they

42:37

have options at least figuring out what they

42:40

want to do a center would

42:42

not surprise me though.

42:44

No as much as fro Holt played, how well he

42:46

played, he's

42:48

going into his free agent year. You

42:51

need to figure that out well.

42:52

Also, what does the staff think about

42:54

John Gaines, who missed all season

42:57

with I believe was an ACL he tour

42:59

in Minnesota of that preseason game last year.

43:02

That's a question of where his rehab is

43:04

and where this staff and envisions him

43:07

when it comes to their future.

43:08

He's kind of gotten forgotten a little bit.

43:11

Not by me.

43:13

Well, it's no, and

43:15

it's when you're not playing

43:17

and you're not around, you get forgotten absolutely,

43:19

And it's up to you, Danny, to sit there

43:21

and make these My job, guys, make sure

43:23

they're not forgotten. By the way, the last thing here is,

43:26

uh, I did a new Bingo

43:28

card because the the

43:30

the tap on the mic last week or was that two weeks

43:33

ago? Last week? It earned me a Bingo So

43:35

good to know. So, by the way, is there are prizes

43:37

involved in this or just bragging rights?

43:39

Are you providing prizes? It's not coming out of my

43:41

paycheck.

43:44

Uh, I'll uh do an expense

43:46

sheet for and turn it into Darren.

43:48

Sure for Cardinals Underground go for it.

43:51

I'll let you know how that goes.

43:52

Yeah, please do.

43:53

And on that note, we will put a lid on This edition

43:56

of Cardinals. Cover two, presented by Hyundai, partner

43:58

of the Arizona. Cardinals has always

44:00

special thanks to our executive producer Joe Mamanro

44:03

our associate producer Cuddie Fincher For Danny

44:05

surek, I'm preig real, Lou. We'll talk to you next

44:08

time here on Cardinals Cover two