0:00

I'm looking at a shelf of books above

0:02

me and you don't say

0:04

I'm not going to carry on reading

0:06

a book, there's too many books on

0:08

that shelf. I'm not going into the

0:10

library because I'll never read them all so what's the

0:12

point in not reading one? Hello and welcome

0:15

to Arches, this is honest,

0:21

generous and humorous conversations that will

0:23

feed your creative soul and get

0:25

you thinking with me, Alice Sheridan

0:27

and me Louise Fletcher. Today

0:30

I think we've got quite an

0:32

interesting subject to get stuck into

0:34

which is the whole idea of

0:37

keeping up with things.

0:42

Probably everyone listening has

0:44

got something they can't keep up with. Right

0:47

exactly, on four rather so we

0:49

thought we'd have a chat

0:52

about that, prompted by actually

0:54

a comment partly that

0:56

Sally-Ann Ashley made in last

0:58

week's episode in conversation with

1:01

you and

1:03

I had also seen a very interesting

1:05

reel which I will share with you

1:07

which I shared on Instagram and that's

1:10

going to kick us off but since

1:12

we last spoke or this week what have you been

1:14

up to? Well not

1:17

as much as I would like, do you

1:19

ever have those days or in my case

1:21

weeks where the only way

1:23

I can describe it is like

1:25

I wandering around in a circle

1:27

not quite sure what to do?

1:29

There's lots of things that need

1:31

doing, it's like oh I

1:34

don't feel like that okay well maybe I could paint

1:36

I don't feel like that well maybe and

1:38

so Monday I took myself off to look at

1:41

antiques because I just thought otherwise I'm

1:43

wasting the whole day so I did

1:45

that. Tuesday I had a

1:47

friend staying with me so I spent

1:49

the afternoon just with him and

1:52

then Wednesday again aimless in fact I even

1:54

fell asleep in the middle of the day

1:56

which I never do and

1:58

I just um I'm

2:00

doing little bits in between and I'm

2:02

working on a series of paintings and

2:05

I've done a bit of in my

2:07

membership of redesigning but I just say

2:09

it's an aimless week and

2:12

it ties nicely into the

2:14

topic you suggested because there's

2:17

a lot of guilt and self-judgment for me

2:19

that comes with yeah but

2:21

you didn't do anything with that day, like

2:23

that day was wasted. Right.

2:25

So yeah so today I woke up

2:28

deciding right I've got this podcast to

2:30

do, I've got a meeting, team meeting

2:32

later and then I'm just

2:34

going to let myself be aimless if I feel

2:36

aimless until I don't

2:39

so then when I saw your suggestion of a

2:41

topic I thought that's quite a good tie-in

2:43

really. It's interesting because

2:45

when you're talking about what you've done it sounds to me

2:48

like living a life. Does

2:50

it? Yeah well for doing

2:52

things you know you're choosing to do

2:55

things. Okay they're not work related, they're

2:57

not art related but you

2:59

know if you have a life which doesn't

3:02

ever have like meeting up with friends or

3:04

just going out brat you're not opening yourself

3:06

up to things are you? So

3:09

I mean I do think yeah that

3:11

sort of judgment that when we're not

3:14

working does come into it a little

3:16

bit but yeah I'm with you on

3:18

the do you ever have the days

3:20

where you don't feel like you're going

3:22

anywhere? It's a little bit like we

3:24

used to have a wind-up toy when

3:27

the kids were little that was like

3:29

it was a little bit like an Escher

3:32

print you know with the never-ending staircase but

3:36

it had little penguins on but because the

3:38

staircase was so you'd wind it up and

3:40

the penguins would kind of drop down the

3:42

staircase but the staircase went round and round

3:44

in circles so they'd never get

3:46

to the bottom. Right and it

3:48

was a little bit and hearing

3:51

you talk my week has been a little bit like

3:53

that I've had I've got things I've got to do

3:55

and every time I think okay

3:58

good I've done that. then

4:00

something else goes... whoops! She says... waving

4:04

her arms around and knocking the microphone over. Every

4:06

time I get to the bottom of something,

4:09

something else comes in with a, oh, you've

4:11

forgotten about that, or, oh, here's another thing

4:13

to deal with. And I'm like, just when

4:16

I clear the slate, I don't think there's

4:19

ever any such thing, though, is there, as a

4:21

clear slate? Probably not.

4:23

Because if there was, we'd sit there and look around

4:25

and go, oh, what do

4:27

I do now? Everything's... there's

4:30

not really any point to live in it, but that

4:32

is there, if you had the completely clean slate. No,

4:36

and life is living and

4:38

doing things and changing it. It's just

4:40

a question of where you

4:43

focus, isn't it? But, so this week

4:45

for me, it feels like it's been

4:47

kind of life and mini stuff. I

4:51

mean, I know it takes time, and I'd

4:53

set aside an hour to update

4:56

my daughter's phone contract, which then

4:58

ended up three

5:00

hours and two

5:02

systems, and the credit card company and

5:04

EE not being able to talk to

5:07

each other. And honestly, by

5:09

the end of it, I was like, I'm ready to go

5:11

lie down somewhere in a cool dark room,

5:15

because I allowed a certain amount of

5:17

time. But it took, honestly, it

5:19

felt like it took all day yesterday, even

5:22

though it was three hours, because I went to the gym,

5:24

I had to do something else. I got there at 11,

5:26

by the time I was done at home, it was three

5:28

o'clock. Yeah. That was it.

5:31

You know, whoop, there's a

5:34

day gone. So, yeah,

5:36

not enough painting this week, which

5:39

is starting to become a little

5:41

bit of a stress, and it's

5:43

just making me think about how

5:45

I need to reconfigure

5:47

my week a little bit to

5:50

get some more of it upfront.

5:52

I think I have an idea that

5:54

I will get some of these other things out

5:57

of the way in inverted commas. that

6:00

it might be better to get other things

6:02

done first and then painting time is clear

6:05

and I think I need to start trying

6:07

to do it in reverse at

6:09

the time when that's important. Because

6:13

yeah interesting so that's like

6:15

sometimes I get students who

6:17

say I can't um like

6:19

start painting till I've done

6:21

the dishwasher book the laundry and cleaned

6:23

the house and then I know everything's and

6:26

then I it's a bit like

6:28

that isn't it and actually maybe

6:31

it's I can't clean the house

6:33

do the dishwasher until I've done

6:35

my painting time. It

6:37

is a little bit like that and I

6:39

think it depends what your list of jobs

6:41

is I mean and I remember when the

6:43

kids were small really really doing that thinking

6:46

okay if I do all the domestic stuff

6:48

first domestic stuff you know that stuff that

6:50

can definitely wait and fill in around the

6:52

edges but some of the things that I've

6:55

been doing have been more like uh like

6:57

government admin HMRC

7:01

you know that kind of stuff. They'll

7:03

wait they're very understanding. If you can

7:05

even get hold of them but those

7:07

are the kind of things that I

7:09

think for me that if I don't

7:11

do them they live in that kind

7:14

of slightly sick pit in the middle

7:16

of your chest and

7:18

that's not a space that I can

7:20

create from. Yeah so I think

7:22

it's just a question of timing when those when

7:25

those things clash it's a bit it's a bit

7:27

uncomfortable. So yeah

7:29

I tried in the past saying right you say

7:31

Monday I'll be admin day and then this day

7:33

and this time I'll be painting days but then

7:36

sometimes the things I need to do don't fit

7:38

into a Monday or they have to be there

7:40

another day and then on the painting day I

7:42

don't feel like painting because that

7:45

my creativity actually was Monday when I

7:47

made myself sit there so it's

7:49

really tricky really difficult. Yeah

7:52

I don't know anybody who's got it sorted though you know.

7:54

No I mean unless

7:56

you have a servant unless

7:58

you have a servant or a person. assistant

8:01

to do all the other stuff for you which would

8:03

be nice but I don't know anybody who's got that

8:05

so. No I think there'd

8:07

have to be quite a lot of people isn't it

8:09

I think we're all wearing quite a lot of jobs

8:11

so I think and perhaps that's

8:13

what part of this conversation is going

8:16

to be about it's about recognising that

8:19

and giving ourselves the

8:21

grace when it happens to accept

8:23

that a little bit you

8:26

know how do we come to that point of okay

8:28

this is where it is right

8:30

now and I'm not

8:32

necessarily getting everything done the

8:35

way that I want to or in the priority I want

8:37

to and it's

8:40

just about recognising how we

8:43

deal with that how we respond to

8:45

that because that's the only thing that

8:47

we can do like we can't necessarily

8:49

preempt or juggle all of these things that

8:52

come in or say oh I

8:54

don't want to ever deal with HMRC or

8:56

mobile phone contracts like you

8:58

know and those things life

9:01

admin things have got

9:03

more and more with more and more

9:05

technology so you didn't have to

9:07

deal with the phone contracts we didn't used to have

9:09

phones that's the new thing yeah doing

9:12

anything with the bank now is like

9:14

a rigmarole because there are no banks anymore

9:16

you just do it all on the phone

9:18

or online and then you need

9:20

codes and I don't know

9:22

how older people are managing

9:25

anymore I don't know how they're

9:27

managing to navigate life because it's

9:31

so complicated yeah

9:33

well I do you know they ask us so

9:35

yeah exactly I was going to

9:37

say I know because I am

9:39

with such a technical model

9:43

yeah anyway so okay all right well

9:45

so we haven't had a great week

9:47

creatively then which is kind of bugging

9:49

me because I'm I feel like I'm

9:52

at sort of an interesting stage in

9:54

the work and if I'm honest a

9:56

little bit of me has been thinking have I

9:58

been doing some of this admin stuff

10:01

because the work is on that

10:03

sort of precipice tipping point

10:05

or feeling like I've got to do something

10:07

new and different and that's a little bit

10:09

scary. There's

10:12

probably a little bit of that that's true,

10:14

probably just a little bit. But

10:18

you know that comes into it too doesn't it? Okay

10:25

so let's get into this subject then and

10:27

like I say it was prompted by something that

10:29

Sally Ann said last week. So

10:31

if you're listening to this live there are lots

10:33

of people doing 100 day project at the moment

10:36

and she said something about she's doing

10:38

the 100 day project but she's not

10:40

keeping up with it. Oh

10:43

yes, yes. So

10:45

I just wanted to talk about this

10:47

idea of keeping

10:50

up with things and

10:53

I suppose again it's this sense

10:56

of obligation that we layer on

10:58

ourselves at a point where is

11:01

it when things become tricky because a lot

11:03

of these things where

11:05

this oh I can't keep up I'm not

11:08

keeping up are

11:10

often things that we have elected to do in the

11:12

first place. Yeah

11:16

because when we were just saying about needing

11:19

a servant, I was joking about needing

11:21

a servant, it made me think of like

11:23

the ladies in Downton Abbey and how they

11:25

had servants do everything and so they basically

11:28

all they had to do was get changed

11:30

and then go have another conversation with someone

11:32

or sit in a room or go for a

11:34

walk or they had nothing to do because

11:37

everybody did everything for them. We're

11:39

the opposite where we've taken on more

11:41

and more and more and more things

11:44

because we can and then

11:48

we can't possibly, I know that for

11:50

myself, I can't possibly keep

11:52

up to a high standard with everything I've taken

11:54

on and that's why I don't do things like

11:57

the 100 day project because I just know

11:59

I can. couldn't keep up and

12:01

then I would feel bad about myself because I

12:04

hadn't kept up. So I

12:06

always admire people who are doing those things and

12:08

I said to Sally-Ann I didn't even realise you

12:10

hadn't kept up because I see you posting all

12:12

the time and think wow you're doing

12:14

amazing. I couldn't

12:16

manage to squeeze that in so it

12:18

looks impressive to me. So yeah we're

12:21

choosing all these things. So

12:25

could we choose, we're

12:27

not choosing HMRC, we're not

12:29

choosing the bank issues but we're choosing

12:31

a lot of the things that we put

12:34

onto ourselves. And

12:38

part of it is, it is this

12:40

question of priorities isn't it because what

12:42

we're choosing when you choose to do

12:44

something like the 100 day project or

12:48

a creative course or

12:51

anything else that's sort

12:53

of ongoing in nature I

12:55

suppose is what we're talking about.

12:58

But a lot of the things where people

13:00

say I'm not keeping up. There

13:03

are things that they have chosen that

13:05

are, they don't come in the HMRC

13:07

category, they come in that I'm choosing

13:10

to do it because it's something that

13:12

I want that's creative that fills another

13:14

part of me. So the problem is

13:17

that that's the bit that's getting neglected

13:19

and that part

13:21

is so easy for us to drop

13:23

and I think it's because there

13:26

isn't so much an immediate, it's

13:28

not just immediate feedback is it,

13:31

but there isn't so much an

13:33

immediate benefit

13:36

from some of those things. So we

13:38

feel that if we drop it, if

13:41

we don't do it anymore, it's

13:44

not actually going to do us that much

13:46

harm but I think it does over

13:48

the long term. Not

13:51

only because you start to think of yourself differently,

13:53

you start to think of yourself as somebody that

13:55

is I committed to that and then I didn't

13:57

keep up. Yes,

14:01

and we hear that a lot. I'm sure you

14:03

hear that a lot from people. Oh well,

14:05

you know me. I always start things and

14:07

then never finish them. Oh, that's just the

14:09

way I am. I'm very scattered. So

14:12

I see that. There's also the

14:14

sense of you might

14:16

drop those things because let's take

14:18

an example. Say you look after grandchildren

14:21

and take in that level where

14:23

it's optional. Because if you've got children

14:25

it's not optional. But grandchildren and your

14:28

daughter rings and says, can you have the kids on

14:30

such a day because I want to get my hair done? And

14:33

you say yes because you feel an

14:35

obligation because they are your grandchildren. That's

14:37

your daughter. And

14:40

then you say, well, what do the 100 day project

14:42

that afternoon? No, because I've got the kids. So that's

14:44

what I'm doing. There's a

14:46

choice there which comes from this

14:49

constant sense of obligation to look

14:51

after other people or do the right thing

14:53

even. It might not be something like

14:55

that. It might be, can you walk

14:57

my dog or can you drive me somewhere?

14:59

A neighbour asks, can you drive me somewhere?

15:02

Something. Other people, we feel

15:04

like that is worthwhile because

15:06

I'm helping someone or

15:09

I'm doing something productive. Whereas

15:11

the 100 day project, that's just

15:14

for fun. And I

15:16

don't have to do that. I can't

15:18

justify to someone saying, well, I can't

15:20

do that because it's my studio afternoon

15:23

and it feels selfish. That's

15:25

what I'm trying to say. And I think

15:27

our first or second episode was, is

15:29

it selfish to make art? And

15:32

it's a constant battle that people have, I

15:34

think. I'm

15:36

wondering if it goes a bit deeper than that

15:39

though, because it's

15:42

more about in that moment. And I

15:44

think if you make those

15:46

choices in that moment and you're making it

15:49

kind of joyously and

15:51

generously, that's fine. That's

15:53

a right decision that's

15:56

right for you. I think the danger

15:58

comes when not

16:00

doing those things builds

16:03

a little bit of resentment and

16:06

when we carry on going

16:09

for the short-term option

16:12

of not feeling uncomfortable by

16:15

saying no to somebody the risk

16:18

of letting somebody down or someone

16:21

being disappointed in you or or

16:25

It's often like a short-term comfort

16:28

thing versus the long-term

16:30

benefit Yes,

16:34

and I think it's to do with what you

16:36

said that Hardly sometimes

16:38

it's to do with I

16:40

know how to drive the neighbor to the

16:43

hospital or take my

16:45

grandkids But I don't know

16:47

how to do that thing. I'm experimenting in

16:49

the studio. So this is a cop-out

16:51

really We don't yeah, we

16:53

don't tell ourselves. It's a cop-out But you make such

16:55

a good point that it's like that.

16:57

Yeah, but if I go in there and I'm confronted

17:00

with things I don't know what to do. I don't

17:02

know how to do them Whereas

17:04

I know how to do this thing here

17:06

in the house. I'm just going to do this thing Which

17:11

is a tough thing to be called out on Yeah,

17:14

see you and I've done I

17:16

often forget this but in the last few years we've done

17:19

quite a lot of Personal development

17:21

work. I hate those words, but it's the only

17:23

thing I can think to say where I See,

17:28

I'm sure we've got blind spots, but we see

17:30

a lot of our own cop-outs and we see

17:32

where we're not taking responsibility and

17:34

we Hold ourselves up

17:37

to all these standards if you haven't done

17:39

that yet and Someone

17:41

says to you. Well, that's just

17:44

a cop-out. You just make an excuse. What's the

17:46

secondary gain from what you're doing? You

17:49

think what you're talking about? No, I'm doing

17:51

this for really genuine reasons takes quite

17:53

a bit of practice To

17:56

stop and reflect and realize oh, yeah,

17:58

there's a reason I'm doing this And

18:01

it's because it's easier. I'm not saying that's always

18:03

why we do it, but I do

18:05

think for me a lot of the time, if

18:07

I'm not, like at the moment I've got paintings

18:09

that are almost finished, but I'm not sure how

18:11

to finish them. That's

18:13

a whole conundrum if I go in there. Yeah,

18:16

it's tiring. I'll

18:20

just do my books instead, which I hate doing, but

18:22

at least I know how to fill in an Excel

18:24

spreadsheet, and it's quite straightforward. Yeah,

18:28

and this is where the somehow

18:31

being able to drop

18:33

the self judgment has to come

18:35

into it. And getting

18:38

back to the original point of people

18:40

feeling like they're, you know, they're not

18:42

keeping up with things like the biggest.

18:47

And it happens sometimes it must happen for you

18:49

in your membership too because you know you've got

18:51

a lot of content in there, and there

18:54

are a lot of different areas as well

18:56

like different focuses. Yeah,

18:58

different elements. And so

19:00

sometimes people say, Oh, I'm

19:02

leaving because I

19:04

can't keep up. And

19:08

I always think that's really interesting and

19:10

it might be being said to spare

19:13

your feelings or my feelings or

19:15

something else. But

19:17

neither of us has created something that

19:19

is designed to be kept up with.

19:23

Yeah, yes, unlike a course

19:25

where you take a course,

19:27

and I still try and make

19:29

it so you don't have to keep up with mine but you've

19:31

got so much amount of time you've got maybe 10 weeks

19:33

you work your way through it, everyone goes through it

19:35

together. Yeah, I can see it there

19:37

where you feel like, Oh no, everyone else on

19:39

week seven and I'm still on week five. But

19:42

in a membership, like I

19:44

was unlike ones I belong to,

19:47

you're meant to dip in and out and take

19:49

what you want from it and

19:51

leave the stuff that's not relevant for you. But

19:55

people look at the whole and

19:57

what I'm wondering I just wrote

19:59

down. And then is it an

20:02

innate human desire for

20:04

achievement? Like

20:08

how we love to check off a to-do list and

20:11

we like putting the crosses through things. I've done that,

20:13

I've done that. And you said it's hard when

20:15

you can't finish a loop because someone comes

20:17

back. Is it that

20:19

feeling of a loop's never closed because

20:22

phew, I just got to the end of that class

20:25

and then she did another one. And now I've got

20:27

to start again. I mean,

20:29

there's a new month and another

20:31

thing to watch indeed. Is it

20:33

an need to say, I'm done,

20:36

I've caught up. Is there some

20:38

human thing that we'll never

20:40

overcome that is just programmed into all

20:42

of us? Because I battle

20:44

with this and I know you do. Yeah, because

20:46

we have that sort of ongoing, I mean, it's

20:48

a balance, isn't it, of having that ongoing drive

20:51

to, and I

20:54

think we do all have this, to want

20:56

to make progress, to do more. Nobody wants

20:58

to feel they're stuck or static or in

21:00

the same place. So the

21:02

kind of learning and the ongoing nature of

21:05

things is good, but again, I'm looking at

21:07

a shelf of books above me and

21:11

you don't say I'm not going to

21:13

carry on reading a book because I'll

21:15

never, there's too many books on that

21:17

shelf. I'm not

21:20

going into the library because I'll never read

21:22

them all. So what's the point in not

21:24

reading one? Yes, how can we make it

21:26

feel more like a library in a membership

21:28

is a constant challenge for me? Because

21:30

that's what it is. You can pull that book down

21:32

and choose that one. And I

21:34

think if we go right back to like the

21:36

100 day project that we spoke about, we had

21:39

a great episode on here before, and I think

21:41

part of that is breaking it down into smaller

21:43

pieces. So rather than thinking of the whole 100

21:45

days, we had

21:47

conversations about maybe break it

21:49

into three projects of 30 days.

21:52

So you're giving yourself that

21:54

experience, the sense of completion.

21:57

And I think why it bothers me when people say

21:59

things. like I'm not keeping up is

22:02

because of this idea

22:04

of changing how you think about

22:06

yourself. Like when

22:09

you even when you say that as

22:11

a I want to give that as

22:14

a reason, I would much rather somebody

22:16

said to me taking

22:18

it back to the membership, I'm cancelling

22:20

the membership because what

22:23

we talk about in there isn't a priority for me right

22:25

now if that's what

22:27

they've decided because that's reconfirming a

22:29

belief that feels right and

22:31

true and helps them on the path for what

22:33

they want out of their life at that point

22:35

in time rather

22:37

than I'm doing it because I can't

22:40

keep up which is quite a

22:42

negative self-judgment thing and that's never what I want

22:44

people to think. Yes

22:46

and you know as you say that

22:48

when they walk away in that situation

22:51

they're feeling a little bit worse about

22:53

themselves than when they started because they

22:55

signed up with great hope that this

22:57

is going to be the answer for

22:59

me and it's those people

23:02

who then go and sign up for the next thing

23:05

often and the next thing because

23:07

maybe this will be the thing

23:10

and every time they say they can't

23:12

keep up they think a little bit worse

23:14

about themselves than the time before and that

23:16

is why I hate that feeling I think

23:18

oh I've just made someone feel

23:20

worse than they did when they joined and

23:23

I didn't want that I wanted to be opposite. So

23:26

really what we're talking here is not

23:28

about how do you keep up because

23:31

it's not even should you keep up because

23:33

we've acknowledged that A you can't like

23:36

can't there's no we can't keep up there's

23:38

never getting to the end of it but

23:40

it's about the wording that we choose

23:43

when we're talking about these things in

23:46

a way that is self-supportive for

23:49

your own decisions and I'll give you another example

23:51

sorry you're all going to be fed up with

23:53

me but I'm really proud of myself so I'm

23:55

going to keep talking about it. This

23:59

and you've heard me saying on here. How often

24:01

have you heard me say on here I'm

24:03

not a morning person, don't like doing exercise.

24:06

I'm still doing it, I'm enjoying

24:08

it and the outcome... When

24:11

you're going to the gym. Yeah and

24:15

the outcome that I thought I wanted

24:17

from it is shifting

24:20

as I go because

24:22

I'm learning more

24:24

about what works for me, how

24:26

I feel, how it

24:28

impacts other areas of my life and I'm

24:31

really enjoying that. Now I'm not promising that

24:33

I will stick to this level

24:35

of commitment all the way through but

24:37

what's really interesting is that even as

24:39

a side helping of

24:44

doing this and I don't know what shifted,

24:46

something shifted at the start of the year

24:48

or at the end of last year in

24:51

terms of this being a

24:53

priority for me and I

24:56

don't know if it's after we did quite

24:58

a lot of like looking at different elements

25:00

of your life on the retreat. I don't

25:02

know if it was part of that in

25:04

the mid-January because this started two weeks after

25:06

that all of these

25:08

issues with my mum but something just

25:11

shifted from previous times where I felt

25:13

I've kind of done something a little

25:15

bit half-heartedly but never really stuck with

25:17

it. Now I'm

25:19

finding ways to support myself

25:22

to stay with it and

25:24

seeing the benefit and what's happening

25:26

alongside is I'm changing

25:28

the way I see myself. I'm not I'm

25:31

not changing my, I don't suddenly want to

25:33

kind of you know go and

25:35

be bodybuilder

25:41

or run a marathon or do

25:43

anything like that but my sense

25:45

of being able to commit something

25:48

to myself and follow through is

25:52

changing. It's just changing.

25:54

Without me almost having to do any

25:56

work that feels really good. person

26:00

who always says as well as I don't like

26:02

exercising and I don't like morning and she always

26:04

say I don't like sticking to doing the same

26:06

thing. Yeah. You don't like

26:08

to do a routine and yet you are

26:10

sticking to committing. I

26:13

did smile a bit when he said I'm not promising

26:15

I'm doing it forever because that's Alice like oh I'm

26:17

just giving myself a little leeway. You're giving myself a

26:19

let out. Yeah but you are

26:21

sticking to it and so

26:24

it's not true and here we

26:26

go in in a circle but it's

26:29

not true that you are not a

26:31

person who can't stick to things on

26:33

a regular basis because we're on episode

26:35

244 of this and

26:38

now you're going to the gym regularly. So

26:41

it's not true but it's something that

26:43

you've said about yourself for a

26:45

long time. Yeah. And

26:47

now this will be shifting it a little bit

26:49

more and each thing you do that shifts it

26:52

I suppose changes the way you see that in

26:55

yourself and that brings us back to if

26:57

you give up on everything also

27:01

anybody who's struggled with their weight

27:03

knows the feeling of losing out

27:05

giving up on the diet and

27:08

how that makes you feel like I've

27:10

come to feel very very strongly that

27:12

diets do not work and actually that

27:14

they hurt because they when they

27:17

do not work you feel worse about

27:20

yourself just what we're saying than the last

27:22

time and each time they do not work

27:24

you get more defeated and because

27:27

they don't work scientifically now we

27:29

know they don't work so it's

27:33

our actual Wednesday diet

27:35

so don't mean changing your diet to be

27:37

healthier I mean going on a diet with

27:39

a plan and a way of following

27:41

doesn't work and so

27:44

anytime we can what we're saying

27:46

then is anytime we can find

27:48

successes in something that

27:50

we started doing it builds

27:53

on itself and anytime we find failure

27:57

so Sally Anne didn't say it as if she was

27:59

a failure but if she had said

28:01

oh I'm doing the 100-day project but

28:04

I'm such a failure as always because

28:06

I've not kept up and that's just

28:08

me that's just how I always am

28:10

I should have known I shouldn't have

28:12

started which is not what she said

28:14

but if she said that

28:16

that would be so defeating versus

28:19

I'm doing the 100-day project and I've done

28:21

20 out of 25 days

28:23

so far and I'm so proud of myself

28:26

yes or even you

28:28

know I'm doing the 100-day project I've had a bit

28:31

I've had a bit and I will still continue with

28:33

it in my own it might take me longer to

28:35

finish and I think longer

28:38

to finish or even or even just

28:41

redefining what finish what finish

28:43

is you know and

28:46

and go back to your reasons for why

28:48

you're doing it in the first place I'm

28:50

just exploring it's just a framework for for

28:53

exploring something new part

28:56

of creativity and I know that the

28:58

reason that I'm sticking to this this

29:00

time partly is because I really kind

29:03

of realized through an exercise that we

29:05

did at the beginning of the year

29:07

that like having that flexibility was super

29:10

important to me so I

29:12

have made sure that actually I'm picking each

29:14

week what I want to do I've got

29:16

some things that I'm liking but I'm giving

29:18

myself an option to take a

29:20

day off or to do this instead of

29:22

that or you know or to

29:25

we had a fabulous family meal on Sunday

29:27

and then spent 10 hours in the pub

29:30

which I haven't done since I was about

29:32

25 and it wasn't good we met for

29:34

lunch at 12 and then we had a

29:36

very nice

29:40

lunch then we went off with my brother and

29:42

his friend and we didn't leave until they checked

29:44

us out of the pub at santa clod wow

29:46

it was really really good fun it does not

29:48

fit under the I'm eating and

29:50

drinking happily and watching what I'm doing at

29:53

my gym but I wouldn't have changed

29:55

it it was great you

29:58

know so it's just I

30:00

think it is the words we choose, isn't it?

30:02

How important they are. Anyway,

30:05

I also just want to share with you

30:07

this reel I found, because I think it

30:09

does sort of tie in with

30:12

this sense of having to keep on

30:14

top of things, or

30:16

having to feel

30:19

like we're always

30:22

further on, or we need to be

30:24

further on than we are. OK,

30:26

so this is the reel. So

30:41

that was Jenny Savile in a talk, and I'll

30:43

put a link to the reel in the show

30:45

notes if you want to go and watch it.

30:49

But this idea of staying

30:51

ignored so

30:54

that you are giving yourself

30:56

the space to develop in

30:58

your art without other people's

31:00

eyes watching you, I

31:02

think it goes back to the same thing, which

31:06

is bringing in the judgment,

31:08

staying out of the space where

31:10

we bring in judgment. In

31:14

that case, the judgment of other people.

31:16

Yeah. But also, I suppose,

31:18

our own judgment, because if you were not

31:20

ignored, you're always constantly thinking, well, what

31:22

will they think of this? So you're

31:24

judging yourself, whereas if you have

31:27

decided I'm going to be

31:29

ignored, I'm not going to be

31:32

putting my work out there for a set amount

31:34

of time, then you don't have

31:36

to have the same self judgment. And I

31:38

said to you once I wished I'd done

31:40

that. Not

31:42

that I'm saying the art world isn't ignoring me because they

31:44

are. But what I'm saying is

31:46

at the beginning, I wish I

31:49

hadn't shared things as quickly on

31:51

social media and started to build

31:53

up a presence. I

31:56

don't know if I do wish that sort of

31:58

things came out of it, but I do think

32:00

there's a. there might have been a benefit to

32:02

just being not joining open

32:04

studios, not doing anything for

32:07

a few years until you've got

32:09

better. But then I wonder how

32:11

do you know if you're not

32:13

putting yourself out there? So that's kind

32:15

of a different subject that how do you know but that

32:18

sense, so it's judgment. How

32:21

do you then lift up

32:23

the sense of self-judgment on whatever

32:25

you're doing? How do you

32:28

practically do that? Again I

32:30

think it's a question of picking your

32:32

words carefully because

32:35

it's I think the

32:37

self-reflection and some kind

32:40

of criteria and the

32:42

ability to look at what you're

32:44

doing objectively is really important to

32:46

grow and to learn. But it's

32:50

a judgment element that comes with that

32:52

when we're feeling I'm not doing x

32:55

quick enough or I'm not doing it

32:57

fast enough or I'm not doing it.

33:01

It's that comparison thing like compared to what

33:03

and it just for

33:06

me I think the growth thing and this

33:09

is connected with the keeping

33:11

up thing. The

33:13

growth thing is to do with what

33:15

we see other people doing and then

33:17

we get a set of criteria that

33:20

we feel we have to do things

33:22

by in order for what we're doing

33:24

to feel valid or to be recognized.

33:27

And I think when we can actually be secure

33:30

in our own space

33:33

of growth, our own intentions for

33:35

what we want, it

33:38

brings such a relief and such a

33:40

freedom to not have

33:42

to live up to those expectations. You

33:45

can still have expectations for yourself but I

33:47

just think we have to really take care

33:50

that those are coming from

33:52

ourself not from everybody

33:55

else and to be really

33:57

true About what's important to you.

34:00

I'm I'm It's not about getting a perfect

34:02

all the time that we can all make

34:05

excuses though. I couldn't do this because I

34:07

was going to the mobile phone shop today.

34:09

Whatever it to, that's true And also I

34:11

could have. Made a different

34:13

choice. It's.

34:16

Interesting. You know because my friend

34:18

that was staying, he's a novelist

34:20

to spin on the podcast and

34:22

he was worth kings. His name's

34:24

Jonathan. Call J again pollens his.

34:26

Books come out and. He was working

34:28

fulltime and writing in the morning

34:30

for stating. Only sit on

34:33

the weekends. know he's retired

34:35

now is, but all the.

34:37

Time in the world to Radek and

34:39

we were just talking about he said

34:41

you know I'm really back filled with

34:44

this last day of the last novo

34:46

like when he retired we were associated

34:48

with to at the time he was

34:50

telling me was to ugly a been

34:52

and is also learning that he imagined

34:54

he would sit down at Nine finisher

34:56

five have a lunch break. It's.

34:59

Not working like that and he's

35:01

not doing at the moment. We're

35:03

working as fast as the was

35:05

when he was squeezing and. Among.

35:08

Of the things and as just thinking

35:10

well we're talking while it is so

35:12

relevant place idea. Of keeping up to

35:14

see with keeping up better when he

35:16

had more things to do. And

35:19

it's a don't. Know whether exactly sit same

35:21

but. He's struggling with some

35:23

self judgment now and that's what we were

35:25

talking about about. Begin easy on yourself and

35:28

and let myself get into any routine and

35:30

learning what was a few and and all.

35:32

Of that. Because.

35:34

Being creative isn't like.

35:37

Was king and when the bang to

35:39

be taken. Off if you've got all

35:41

the choice which a lot of us

35:43

have, some people are retired. Some people,

35:45

some people listen to this. I like

35:47

John and they're painting in the cracks

35:49

and they get more done probably than

35:51

some of the people he got all

35:53

day or just owed is certainly just

35:55

as much. And I think that also

35:57

worth mentioning is how often we wish.

36:00

we go like, oh, I wish I didn't

36:02

have XYZ to do, then I would do

36:04

more. And the reality is that

36:06

that's not always true. It's like ask a bit,

36:08

you know, if you want something doing ask a

36:10

busy person, isn't it? I mean,

36:13

I know for me, there is definitely a there

36:15

is at the moment,

36:17

definitely a limit anyway, as to how much

36:19

creatively I can do in a day, even

36:21

when I do have a full studio day,

36:23

I get to a certain point and I

36:25

start to get tired and

36:27

make decisions that don't necessarily that

36:29

don't necessarily help. I

36:32

can actually be still standing there

36:34

painting, just

36:37

ugliness, pointless ugliness, I can be

36:39

standing there and doing that knowing

36:41

what I'm doing and carrying

36:43

on doing it. Because, well,

36:45

I'm supposed to get painting done today. And

36:47

also I quite like the feeling of actually

36:49

putting paint on a brush and putting it

36:51

on. But I can see I'm

36:54

making everything worse. And sometimes I have to

36:56

force myself to go step

36:58

away from the paints, because this

37:01

is a disaster. And all

37:03

I'm going to do is send the whole thing back

37:05

the next day and start again, because I've made such

37:07

a mess. So and

37:10

I know I've had messages from people when I

37:12

said that I would say, Oh, yeah, I do

37:14

the same thing. So I know that's not just

37:16

me, but that again comes back to the feeling

37:18

of that I've got to keep up because I

37:20

said I was going to get these, you know,

37:22

I was going to paint today. And now here

37:24

I am. So let me just force it. And

37:27

you can't do that. I just think

37:29

what you said, when you message me,

37:31

it all comes back down to this

37:33

sense of self judgment, we

37:35

can choose how we want to frame

37:38

what we're achieving in the

37:40

negative or in the positive. And

37:43

I have a natural tendency to lean

37:45

towards the negative when it's myself, not

37:47

all the people, but myself. And

37:50

I sometimes there are other people who really frame

37:52

it for me and say, Oh, you could look

37:54

at it this way. And I think, Oh, yeah,

37:57

it doesn't have to be as bad as I'm

37:59

saying. And I would

38:01

love it if everybody

38:04

listening could give themselves a little

38:06

bit of a break about where

38:08

they are with things. Yeah,

38:11

what I said was,

38:13

yeah, this is about pace

38:15

setting and giving

38:17

ourselves the approval to just

38:19

restart rather than carrying

38:22

around the guilt if we're

38:24

doing that not keeping up thing. But

38:26

the first part of that is noticing

38:29

what we're saying

38:31

out loud to other people and what we're

38:33

saying to ourselves and framing it as an

38:35

excuse rather than owning it.

38:39

Own what decisions you're making. And

38:41

I wonder if sometimes it's

38:45

an easy opt-out we

38:48

give ourselves, all of us,

38:50

we all do it, rather

38:52

than either just taking

38:55

the time to accept our own

38:57

pace or our capacity

38:59

right now, which then sometimes

39:02

would lead into making changes

39:04

that we either need to

39:06

or might want to make. Because

39:09

sometimes those are harder than just

39:11

sticking with the excuse, aren't they? Oh,

39:14

yeah. Is the excuse too harsh

39:16

as a way of describing this? When

39:19

I say excuse, I mean that we

39:21

give ourselves, we do it, we

39:24

make an excuse even to ourselves

39:26

to make us feel more comfortable

39:28

about what's happening.

39:30

Yes, we did the excuse for ourselves. Someone

39:34

wrote to me and said they

39:36

couldn't continue with my membership because they

39:38

were going through this thing. And

39:41

this thing they were going through was exactly what

39:43

I'm going through while I'm running the

39:45

membership. And I thought, I

39:49

didn't say to this person, that's not

39:51

true. But they thought, well, that's interesting

39:53

because I can do it. So

39:57

it's everybody's got different capacities. But

39:59

yes. Where are we telling

40:01

ourselves? And we do it

40:03

all the time. I I've done it for years in

40:05

Ohio. The things. I get with that.

40:07

that's not possible for me, sorry, that's just not

40:10

possible And then it's all sit down and I

40:12

don't have to shop. I. Yeah.

40:15

T V When you say it's not possible. And.

40:19

It's an actually into saw when you say

40:21

possible is will not thing I feel less

40:23

drive it hardly I can't keep up with

40:25

malice his membership so it's off my list

40:27

and asked think about and uma. Fabulous.

40:30

Really did he get the bad? except

40:32

you didn't get what you wanted and

40:34

say you're still and you feel a

40:36

little bit was the base of. Okay

40:39

then so where are areas at

40:42

the moment? So we started off

40:44

at the beginning of have this

40:46

conversation with both of us saying

40:48

that we. Haven't. Done

40:50

enough. Studio Time

40:52

this week. Oh.

40:54

As much as we wanted we

40:57

you because your. You

40:59

been living a life me as

41:01

I've been doing admin soften the

41:03

other work staff and both of

41:06

which are true both of which

41:08

are also excuses but also neither

41:10

of which a permanent situations. I

41:12

wondered that that's really important part

41:14

of this as well as to

41:17

just bringing the recognition of whatever

41:19

stage your ah it's only ever.

41:22

Like. A moment in time. And next

41:24

week. Or next month Or six months

41:26

time. Will

41:28

be different and I think

41:31

holding. Clothes, City

41:33

you. I was

41:35

going to say holding closer to you. A

41:38

sense of where you want to be in

41:40

six months. Is. Important to

41:42

remember and I do think that's

41:44

true. But. I don't think we can live

41:46

our lives in the future. We have to live our life.

41:49

Now. And. This week.

41:51

So maybe the time scale in that sense

41:53

has to be shorter than that? But.

41:56

I do think you may a really important

41:58

point to someone reminded me of. The

42:00

other day, What's division? What is the

42:02

is trying to achieve because I'd lost

42:04

track? Come from think. And

42:07

keeping that in mind that do think

42:09

it's important a slight when we want

42:11

we can you don't one of the

42:13

the game. Reminding yourself

42:16

why you really want to be

42:18

regular at the gym and then

42:20

when you really reminded myself he

42:22

can decide well you have I

42:24

feel like going to they are

42:26

not knowing that that is the

42:28

objective in the end of I

42:30

do think keeping that in mind

42:32

so I took this course. All

42:34

right join the hundred day project

42:36

because I wanted. X.

42:40

So. Am I gonna let missing free

42:42

days? I'll begin behind one month. You'll stop

42:44

me. I still want X. I think

42:46

that's a good point that we

42:48

can discuss. just keep him that

42:50

go who are ideal in mind.

42:52

But. Not easily as the way

42:55

to flagellate yourself because you're not

42:57

there yet? Yes, exactly. Yeah.

43:00

I'm an outlet mall and I took

43:02

i had a cost I signed up

43:04

for. it wasn't It wasn't a massive

43:06

thing towards the end of last year

43:08

and I didn't keep up. Keep up

43:10

with that in inverted commas. And.

43:14

For sure moment I thought, well that was

43:16

silly, wasn't that that was silly During that

43:18

it was a waste of money and a

43:20

little best of me was even a bit

43:22

cross about that. Because.

43:25

I felt that the

43:27

delivery of it wasn't

43:29

respectful. Which. Is odd? just.

43:32

Wasn't respectful of the people's time

43:34

he turned up live. Because.

43:38

The person who delivered it

43:40

was so conscious of getting

43:42

sound bite videos that he

43:44

could reuse the other times.

43:47

In. Short chunks that actually he didn't

43:50

pay any attention to people who

43:52

were there live and asking questions.

43:54

Live on the cool. right?

43:57

And I thought that was disrespectful. Yeah,

44:00

which is. And.

44:02

It made me not want to show for it live. Who.

44:06

And there was also a bit

44:08

of disconnect between. like how they

44:11

present themselves as ethical and blah

44:13

blah blah blah blah And so

44:15

it was. It was really interesting

44:17

for me to go a cable.

44:19

Why do you no longer want

44:21

to continue with this And. What

44:24

have you actually learned from it

44:26

that you will take forward? and

44:28

if I've done that, Is

44:30

fine. I don't continue the that. I've

44:32

learned something about how I like

44:35

to consume and deliver and be

44:37

in a space with people and

44:39

be. Responsive. To them.

44:42

Which. Was. Probably. Just as helpful

44:44

as finishing because. He. Is

44:46

now I have no sense of guilt. the

44:49

I didn't finish it. Yeah says just all

44:51

about what we tell ourselves. Again, we. Always

44:54

it comes back to what we tell ourselves.

44:56

Everything in our lives it is a story

44:59

him with a get to decide. How

45:01

we tell it's. Not.

45:04

Easy there is it. Not at all.

45:07

As. Say that as the same like some sham

45:09

and he's. Got a all worked out.

45:12

I tell myself negative stories all

45:14

the time, but I am beginning

45:16

to realize they are still stories.

45:18

The how do you catch yourself

45:20

then. Sometimes I don't

45:22

hopes and then I wallow in some

45:25

at M. I can't

45:27

I think just by being more aware

45:29

I use do with we said to

45:31

suffer by these to just as thought

45:33

and my thoughts of the truth and

45:35

then I just followed my thoughts they

45:37

were. Either, never question

45:39

myself. And then when I

45:41

realized. That with the just.

45:43

Thoughts on that we can question them and

45:46

also we don't see everything the way it

45:48

is. We. Can see our

45:50

perspective. Then I'm getting better

45:53

at catch him myself and

45:55

saying. Oh, I see what

45:57

I'm doing here. Why am I doing?

46:00

The way that soft. And hard to figure

46:03

out for yourself. Maybe you need some help

46:05

with that. Sometimes you can figure as and

46:07

seven seek out what. Why am I giving

46:09

up on this thing you know? Oh why

46:12

am I know able to stay the goal

46:14

clearly? Oh why am I not doing the

46:16

thing? A one. That

46:18

can be had sworn to tangle cause

46:21

sometimes quite complicated why we have these

46:23

stories. But. At least

46:25

I can bear cats that they are.

46:27

stories. Yeah, we've killed

46:29

that. The way we know that is. There

46:31

were seven billion or whatever other people on

46:34

the planet and then an oval. Believe

46:36

in what I believe. Most

46:38

fundamental beliefs: something completely different. Some

46:40

of them believed that snorting cocaine

46:42

is the answer, and I know

46:45

that's not the answer. Some of

46:47

them believe that. He

46:49

know binge eating at night. As the are

46:51

concerned, that's not my answer. Some of them

46:53

believed that working twenty four hours a day

46:55

advance and that's not my answer. So. I

46:58

know that these are all. Constructs,

47:00

We've made. A

47:02

system Rambling You own constructs. It's quite

47:05

challenging. Some terms. And

47:07

whole a therapist out. Yeah says

47:09

I think it is challenging is hard work

47:11

and and nothing from thing that makes it

47:14

worthwhile is the. Release.

47:16

That com. And I think

47:18

we've all been in these kinds of

47:20

situations to or maybe there's something personally

47:22

going on or is difficult to say

47:24

something but when you have the conversation

47:27

the you actually say was really. Really?

47:30

Bothering you? What the real meaning

47:32

underneath it as a why something's

47:35

really upset you. It

47:37

feel. It feels

47:40

such a relief. And

47:42

you know what more more just comes

47:44

down to this idea? Of

47:46

creating situations where you can

47:49

experience. If you want something

47:51

to change you have to

47:53

create. Situations.

47:56

They give yourself the opportunity to

47:58

experience something different. Otherwise,

48:00

you just stay in the same

48:03

place over and over and over

48:05

again and. Like. I give one

48:07

other examples Are we talking about this?

48:10

Two day event that were doing and

48:12

or a again a lot of these

48:14

things a real I understand that you

48:16

know people are you know they've got

48:18

work time on that they can't com

48:20

that somebody said oh I can't come

48:22

because I need more notice that our

48:24

at that point we were like six

48:26

seven weeks out from it had not

48:28

till the first of May they were

48:30

there is a cuts off the when

48:32

we've got to that the venue no

48:34

final numbers but this same. Day I

48:37

was in a conversation with somebody

48:39

else. Having a conversation

48:41

about a one to one retreat somebody had

48:43

messaged her and said you're not doing a

48:45

retreat next week I and she's I know

48:47

I'm not I'm guessing the to travel on

48:49

getting ready to travel and guy way I

48:51

caught anything the next week and she said

48:53

and then we buy thought of asset a

48:55

little bit and she said well what is

48:57

it that you one and she said wilson

48:59

time and just to do this and talk

49:01

through some ideas and she likes well I

49:03

can clear if you know three days in

49:05

my diary next week if you wanna come

49:07

over and will do something. For. You

49:09

so with two days notice. Some.

49:12

Years route Flew. From the States

49:14

or something. We're just really interesting

49:16

how that two. Very.

49:19

Different responses to or said the

49:21

sweet a thing. And

49:24

I'm not saying that the reasons that

49:26

people aren't coming on real. But.

49:29

It is just this awareness of what we're

49:31

saying. Is that ready? True.

49:34

Yeah. Is that really true? That

49:36

if I went to a T M P's

49:38

on Need To Cheap and on podcast are

49:41

dead. Name is Byron Katie. And

49:43

she just always us. That? Is

49:45

that really true? A My Absolutely

49:47

sure. That's. True. And then she

49:50

practiced. She gets it's practice we

49:52

framing. It needed the way round.

49:55

And Eight City. So interesting to see what

49:57

happens when she was with people and. That

50:00

question in these beliefs. But

50:04

if it does bring. A

50:06

real relief I think when you

50:09

do it So always saying this

50:11

is hard work and and you

50:13

know you say what's changed for

50:15

you is what has changed his.

50:18

You put yourself deliberately into relationships

50:20

with people who have helped to

50:22

works through this were time and

50:24

time again you've come back. During

50:27

a little bit more digging and doing a

50:29

been retired and would you would you go

50:31

back to the person you are. Yeah.

50:34

Oh. God Mero! Mero.

50:38

Because. That because when you may

50:40

still have the limitations, you make possible

50:42

things that you would never want to

50:45

give up on. My. And go

50:47

back. And if I think back

50:49

to her things worse than the

50:51

things I believed manifested. Themselves. In

50:54

actual limits. That.

50:56

I couldn't get past that. It

50:58

does work. That if he believes

51:00

I'm saying the new act in

51:02

a way that. Much

51:04

that belief. That

51:07

says how he is. So you the

51:09

is t believe I just don't have

51:11

time to go on the day with

51:13

three days. Same thing you mean that

51:15

belief in your daily life by Philly

51:18

know each item with those things are

51:20

enough interest? Do. And. When

51:22

you take away. The believe if all

51:24

the sudden that's like this open. Oh.

51:27

right? Well, what what else would be possible?

51:29

And now I don't believe that anymore. So

51:32

I would never never and I'm sure you

51:34

blood and either go back to. You.

51:37

Do some time think our lungs is going

51:39

to go on full length of the. Suppose.

51:41

I'll just go on until the day

51:43

I die realizing something else I. Had

51:46

a realize that far, but. Yeah,

51:48

but it's just it's so much better

51:50

than that if I even this is

51:52

even if I look at this week.

51:54

Am I frustrated that I haven't had

51:56

much time in the suit as I

51:58

wanted? Yes. Is it also. There

52:00

are other important things that I needed

52:02

to spend time on and I really

52:04

didn't need to spend time on? Yes!

52:06

Is it also true that I could

52:09

have gone to the studio instead of

52:11

watching. Episodes One

52:13

and to a Gentleman on Netflix.

52:16

Yeah yeah. Yeah,

52:18

I'm is it. also

52:20

true that. I

52:23

actually wanted and needed

52:25

to. Help. And

52:28

I regained when they could do it is it was

52:30

in my name is blue and mobile phone contract. Am

52:34

I glad it's done? If.

52:37

You. Know it and I think knowing all

52:39

of those things and just checking in with

52:41

them either then. It. Doesn't

52:43

make me feel. it makes me feel.

52:47

Not. Better that I haven't been in

52:49

the studio but it makes me feel

52:52

more of knowledge sharing so the I

52:54

then don't feel guilty for not being

52:56

the studio sassy. Yeah that I'm not

52:58

carrying that with me into the next

53:00

time the I go in turn up

53:02

for it. I'm doing

53:04

each thing that I'm choosing. With.

53:07

An understanding of where it fits in the big picture.

53:11

And that is the. But if I could wrap

53:13

up with this, I heard from someone which was.

53:15

When you say I can't do that, they

53:18

don't have time. Instead say

53:20

I can't do that because. I'm

53:22

choosing something else. Yeah, Like

53:25

were always teasing. Something else

53:27

and it might be. The choice is

53:29

extremely valid as yet is he said,

53:31

and that therefore. oh okay that flak

53:33

out though it but beyond list about

53:35

what you choosing and if it's flick

53:37

into instagram a watch in. Ten.

53:39

Episodes of Some Housewife Staying

53:42

On You know, whatever. Be

53:44

honest about. What Theis? Yeah. Do.

53:47

It and enjoy it. If

53:49

if it or not it's

53:52

cause. I really feel like this is one of

53:54

those ones. always sort of go round and round in

53:56

circles, but. You. Know maybe because there

53:58

isn't as it is Again, this is

54:00

straightforward. Okay, do x y that one,

54:02

two three and everything will be sorted.

54:04

You know it's not like that. Know.

54:07

And their be the little things in things

54:09

that we said that resonate for different people.

54:12

Yeah. But. We're still

54:14

justice. Rubbish. It. With

54:17

it so easy, even men are

54:19

just as rubbish. How that monthly

54:21

is that? Yeah. Very judgmental. I

54:23

that site for us this week. We

54:25

will be back next time with maybe

54:28

something a little bit more practical. But.

54:30

Maybe not a under. The

54:32

paper the specs listening, but

54:34

by.