Ezra Klein, founder of Vox.com, is now a New York Times columnist and podcaster. He wants to fix the broken system that is Congress, yet he finds himself operating from inside another broken system: mass media.

Ezra talks with Art of Power host Aarti Shahani about how he’s trying to promote structural analysis — as opposed to character-driven stories — in politics. Ezra and Aarti revisit his days as a poor student — and the moment when he nearly got cancelled for a tweet. Ezra also talks about how podcasting — not Twitter — gives him a chance to really listen to the other side (and not just literally). The author of Why We’re Polarized and host of the podcast The Ezra Klein Show says he wants to find and build more open spaces in journalism.

Ezra also says he’s come to learn his most basic assumption about how to win hearts and minds was all wrong.