In today's episode, I welcome Patricia Karen Gagic! Patricia has had an absolutely amazing journey, getting to learn from some of the most highly-acclaimed artists in the world, including Monsieur Dragic, who mentored her in France for years. Now, she combines her love of fine arts and education in mindfulness to create Karmic Art Experiences for her clients. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is a photo of Karen herself!)

Get in touch with Patricia Karen Gagic: www.patriciakarengagic.com | www.inspiredtoberewired.com | [email protected] 

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Episode 63 - Patricia Karen Gagic

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12]Roman:  All I can do is put my part in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful. 

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi friends, whether you are just getting started or you're a seasoned professional looking to up your game, I have an exciting opportunity for you. Did you know that I am actually the creator of 10 different courses online that range from ballet, jazz, tap. They also include a mindset detox course and two Stretch and Tone courses. So if you're looking to start a new hobby or get a little bit fitter, or you're looking to do a deep dive into your mindset, really perform a true detox, I have the course for you, and I would love to help you out with that. So if you go to elevateart.thinkific.com, you will see all of the different courses I've created.

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[00:02:11] Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am absolutely delighted to have as my guest today, Patricia Karen Gagic. She is an international contemporary artist, an author, and the chief visionary officer of a nonprofit charity. And she has such an amazing background and wealth of experience in the arts. So I'm just so thrilled to be able to talk art with her today. Thank you so much for being here, Patricia.

[00:02:43] Patricia Karen Gagic: Oh, hi Lindsey. Oh my goodness. I'm thrilled to be here with you as well. Thank you so much. Amazing opportunity to talk art.

[00:02:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course! And I would love if you wouldn't mind sharing just a little bit about yourself, maybe how you got started and, and take us from there.

[00:03:00]Patricia Karen Gagic: Sure. So I've been a always curious person and when I was very young, I thought, "Well, I want to be a fashion designer." And I think I was probably about three years old when I started actually drawing Elizabethan ball gowns. I had never seen one. I have no idea. My family could never figure out how I was drawing these, but there was something inside of me, just this intuitiveness that I just love drawing. And then that catapulted into, you know, me pen in hand wanting to do something different. But as I went through school, I realized I needed to have a career and my family really wanted me to do something more astounding with my life, even though I thought, "You know, having being an artist would be amazing." But you remember the old saying, "artists are poor," so it's not really going to be the way you're going to manage your life.

[00:03:58] So I, I did actually become involved in finance and I joined the bank and by the ripe old age of 25, I was probably one of the first female bank managers here in Canada. And I ruled with, you know, 92 employees and I sort of was climbing the ivory tower, but at the same time, I was still doing these more surrealistic ink drawings, sort of the Salvador Dali style. And, and then my world just, you know, kept going and going until I finally said, "You know, I want to be a painter." And that's the moment that I really fell in love with art, with actually with painting. So that, that's sort of the beginning of the journey.

[00:04:46]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yeah. And so then you, so you had your career in finance, but you obviously still had this passion and wanting to continue doing art. So what led you to your next step in the journey?

[00:05:00] Patricia Karen Gagic: Well, I thought, you know, not having any lessons in art, you know, in painting, that I should probably, yeah-- get myself involved in, you know, an art school. So there, we do have something here. It was McMaster University, and I enrolled myself in a program. And then the, there was the Burlington Cultural Center. And I had an opportunity to be actually taught a master program with an artist who is quite revered in Canada. His name is Tony Urquhart, and he was also teaching at the University of Guelph. So he had invited me one summer to come out, and as they were doing different tutorials and what, I was really feeling, you know, this, this place that I felt very comfortable in.

[00:05:48] And then it was not until 1999 when my husband decided that we should take a trip to France, and that was really the beginning of my, my most synchronistic part of my life. In order, there was a little apartment called the Sunflower Apartment and they always had an ad in the newspaper and my husband called the ad and he said, "You know, we'd like to go and stay." The gentleman who owned the home said, "Sure. Have your wife come and see me, pick up the keys, I'll share everything about it." So we did. And I, I went to his home and, "Oh my goodness." It was an art gallery basically. He had three floors of amazing paintings and said, "Would you like a tour?" I said, "Yes!"

[00:06:32] I see this painting up on the wall. And it's this very abstract white horse, which would've never really, you know, attracted me because my brain was more in the Jackson Pollock style. And but I looked at the name on the painting and it said, D R A G I C. And that's and I said, "Oh, Dragic," because it's a Serbian name, and this gentleman looked at me and he said, "No, no, no, no, no, this is Dragic, and he's in the top 10 percentile and a wonderful artist." And in that moment, I don't know why, but he said, "You know, and it's about three or four hours away from where you will be." and I went, "Okay, I want to meet this guy." Why I even thought that I have no idea, but it was just that auspicious moment.

[00:07:18] So we managed to get ourselves to France and made the phone call to le Monsieur Dragic, and he said no. He said, "No, I'm not seeing anybody. I'm not interested." And I was devastated and I went, "Oh my goodness. I've come all the way here. Now I'm on a mission. I definitely want to meet this, this man, this artist." And then finally we called back and he agreed. And we went to a little fifth century village in Provence. And when we met him, I sat in complete, absolute disbelief because when we got up into his Italia, he was showing me pictures of himself with, you know, very famous artists. And he had also exhibited in some of the most beautiful galleries in in the south of France in Avignon, as well as Grenoble and with Christo and Picasso. And he knew all of these people and he, he was part of that top 10%.

[00:08:22]So I, I was realizing that this man had made an entire life, his whole entire career to flawlessly dedicated, you know, to art and the study of art. And that inspired me. So as we were leaving back to our car, he said, and he does not speak English, only French and Serbian. So thank goodness I had some high school French, but my husband speaks Serbian, so we were able to communicate quite easily. And he said, he said three things. He said, "What does she want? Does she want fame? Does she want money? Or does she want the truth?" And you know, in that moment, the response of course was, "The truth." And he invited me to come back six months later for a week, and this is back in 1999.

[00:09:10] And he said, "But you're going to have to learn to speak some better French so we can really communicate and talk about the art." So I spent 38 hours over the course of those few months with a tutor trying to upgrade my French. And and then we arrived and that was the beginning of a long, 20 plus year relationship. I've been back and forth to France many, many, many, many times each year studying with him. And just could not even begin to tell you how precious that decision was and how, you know, accepting he was of me.

[00:09:49]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. What an amazing story. I love the way that, oh my goodness, all came together, but I just-- kudos to you for being so bold and brave and really putting yourself out there. I mean, that's, that's fantastic, but I, you know, my goodness just to see that painting and then go, I need to meet this person and, and be persistent about it and then. Wow. Good for you. And then what an amazing opportunity to learn from somebody like that. I mean, my jaw just sort of dropped when I, you were talking about, you know, all of the, basically his circle of influence and friends. I mean, you're learning from masters. Like how cool is that?

[00:10:36] Patricia Karen Gagic: Well, the, the shock for me was that he, who he was, you know, at that time, you know, very revered and I thought to myself, there's just no way that I even, why should I fit in? And yet, you know, it's that very precise feeling that we just have, that intuition, and it sits in our gut that if I'm here, I meant to be here. And that's for me that karmic piece. And I also realized after, you know, the first week I was with him, he had never actually taken anyone under his wing. Bozart had invited him in Paris and other schools to teach and he had refused. He's actually quite an eccentric person. Of course he would have to be.

[00:11:23] And in that period of time, I was so humbled, but he really took me to a place of like tabula rasa, where it was like the blank slate. He basically said to me, "Patricia, you know, you might think you know what you know about art," but he said, "in order for me to actually give you the truth," he said, "and, and, and share all of this with you, you have to go to zero. And if you can't do that, if you're going to fight me along the way, it's not going to work." So I, no matter what anyone can say, when you are in front of a master at this level, you close your eyes and you say, "You got it." And I did that. I, I really forgot everything I knew. And what he did was he started teaching with the Matisse palette, which he had been taught himself. And this Mattise pallet, he had manipulated. So basically he had created his own version of it.

[00:12:27] But in order-- this is sort of interesting-- it was always Rembrandt paint oil is how we started and we never spoke about the colors. Everything was done by the number. So for example, if he wanted me to combine two particular colors, we would always say just the name, the number. So it'd be 231 and 156, or 568 and 231 and 107. So I, I had to really memorize the pallet by virtue of the numbers. And then we were able to, you know, to work. So it was, it was quite a challenge. I do recall going there one particular time, and he had an opening at one of the galleries and we went to the opening and then I spent a few days in the Italia with him and he had given me pastels. And I had never used pastels before. And he gave me a book where it was one of his books that was filled with his own, his own work.

[00:13:24] And he pointed to one of the paintings and he said, "Here are six crayons, I'm going to show you quickly how to use them with a razor blade and, and whatnot." And he said, "and here's the paper. And tomorrow I want you to bring me your version of this particular piece." I thought I was going to die. I mean, he gave me six crayons and I looked at all the colors and I thought there's no way under the sun. So I, we finished our work with him that day. And I started working and it was probably four or four-thirty in the morning when I finished the piece.

[00:13:59] I had pastels all over the table, the floor, it was a mess and we rolled it up and that morning went back to the Itali around nine o'clock and he opened it and looked at it and he closed it and put it aside. And I thought, "Oh my goodness," like I've done a terrible job. And I was really, really kind of upset because he didn't say anything. And at the end of the week, he actually gave it back to me and he handed it to me with basically saying he was so shocked that he couldn't tell the difference between his and mine. And, and that's when he made the decision that he wanted to continue teaching me. And then he asked me, that was probably the next trip there to write a --was either-- I can't remember how many thousand words or 2000 words could have been more-- in French.

[00:14:55] And he wanted me to write exactly what I felt art was about to give my own dissertation and, but I had to do it in French. And again, I stayed up the whole time. And I wrote every conceivable thing. I had dictionaries, I had whatever translation like couldn't think of in French, I was making up words and then I took it into him and of course he read it. And, but we, we are the very, very best of friends. And I just, you know, I just feel this beyond, just beyond a blessing in life. And I think about in 2012 or 13, he invited me to have an exhibition with him. The two of us, it was the only time I've exhibited with him in Seoul. And we had yeah, it was just one of those, you know, perfect moments in your life when you have exhibited with the master.

[00:15:52]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Those are incredible stories. Ah, I'm just enthralled. Oh my goodness. Okay. So I'm just really interested because you mentioned that, you know, he's never done this before and conceivably, maybe not since either. So I'm wondering, what about it, what about you was, do you think, was that he saw this spark that he was like, "yes, she has what it takes. Or she has the dedication." I mean, obviously you had already gone out of your way to meet him, but I'm just so curious because, you know, and obviously you have, you had talent, but I'm just wondering, like what spark was it that he saw, do you think?

[00:16:37] Patricia Karen Gagic: Yeah.

[00:16:38]Lindsey Dinneen:  I need to teach her.

[00:16:40] Patricia Karen Gagic: Yeah. In fact, that's a really great question because about two years ago, of course, you know, I've, I have, I have won many awards for my work, and I've been recognized by different organizations and, and one of them had asked me to provide do I have anything like a, you know, a curation or anything from Monsieur Dragic? And I said, "No, I don't." So I called him and I said, "Would you mind writing something about, about me, about my work?" And he said, "Of course." So he did. And I, it, it, it was quite long. And the translation was basically that he had never met anybody who was, as they said, first of all, humble, but that had such a desire. And my passion exceeded everything around me. And he said just the way I, my temperament was one thing. He said, "you're, you're very wise and calm," but mostly he said "you were, you were so in love with the knowledge, just wanting to know what all the, you know, the bits and pieces of, of life are actually about that."

[00:17:51] He said it was a trigger for him in his own life. He changed his style once or twice while over the past few years. And he said he was, he was actually influenced by my career. And he also said, because I was female, believe it or not, he did have a, a group of psychiatrists that were also painters from Germany that used to come every year, every two years that he would host a few days and give them some support and lessons, but he'd never taken on one individual at any point in time for the full length. Pretty much half my life. So I think I was pretty humbled by, by his words, but more than anything, it was this passion. He said he, he felt it. And he, as the first trip and the second trip and the third trip and the fourth trip went by, I didn't provoke him. I, I didn't push any buttons. I was a sponge and that's what really, I think, fueled even more because then he started to introduce me-- oh, this is a good story. You'll like this, Lindsey.

[00:18:56] One, one of the visits he wanted me to meet Pierre Humbert. So in the south of France, of course, there's this click of, you know, the, the older artists now, many of them were famous at that time, but as history has gone on, they lose the profound. They don't always stay in that highest rank because there's new artists. There's gallery changes, you know, the history and the south of France changed in the art world, but certain people make certain choices. And he invited me to meet Pierre Humbert. Pierre Humbert was actually one of the gentlemen who, who entertained some of the other artists there, including Picasso.

[00:19:40] So when we went to his home, which was out in the, you know, in the beautiful Passage, we had a lunch and he said, "I want you to sit in this particular chair." And I did. And they were, he had another couple of artists with him that came to meet me as well. I was a bit of a novelty to everybody. And I remember sitting in the chair and the first thing Pierre Humbert says to me, he goes-- and they do not speak English. And he said, "Ah, Patricia," he said, "You know, this is  Picasso's chair. This is where his bum would sit and no one sits in this chair and you can sit now and you can feel all of the energy from Monsieur Picasso, but also open your eyes and look at the land." And it's, I mean, it is the Passage, it's rolling hills. And he said, "Do you see this particular, you know, area?" And I said, "Yes." And he goes, "This is wherePicasso\ those saw the blue nude, it was the rolling hills of this, this land that was the impetus for him. He, the inspiration."

[00:20:50] And so they sat and shared many stories that, you know, I can't repeat them because I don't remember them. And I, you know, they were just of the moment, a lot of jokes and songs and things that they would do. And then I went into the Italia of Pierre Humbert. And again, you're standing in it, you're standing in the source of history where A) it's a privilege, because I know there are probably, if there's a handful of people on the planet who have ever been stepped into those rare, iconic, you know, caves where all the genius exists, it's like I was in the most perfect think tank. I, I couldn't, I had to pinch myself to even imagine I was the person standing here. And that, you know, sharing that story just kind of makes me again, think about the influences.

[00:21:39] And I became really interested through Dragic's eyes with an artist by the name of Xiao Qi. And Xiao Qi passed away in 2013. He was born in Beijing and decided that he wanted to become an artist probably by the age of 10, but he went to Paris. And he studied in Paris and he actually traveled with some of the more, very, very like Pierre Soulages. He was friends with Pierre Soulages and he traveled to New York with him in the fifties or sixties. And that's when he changed from sort of a calligraphy to this abstract calligraphic work, and I, for the very first time that I ever saw his work, I was insanely smitten. I mean, I it's like you walked into, I could walk into his, his painting into the, into the words. So I've spent the last 20 years studying most of  work and trying myself to develop my style based on that influence. And that's where I'm at right now.

[00:22:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. This is just the coolest thing. I, I'm just so inspired and in love with these stories that just, wow. Wow. What amazing opportunities.  I'm so intrigued and, by sort of his methods and how he was teaching you and sort of, you know, even the stories, like 24 hour challenges or whatever you want to call them. But you know, like here's this, this somewhat impossible task, go do it. And you figured out a way to do that. And it's interesting to me, you know, you were, you were talking about in his own words, he was talking about, he appreciated your passion, your humility and everything. I'm sure so much of that is so, so much of that is the willingness on your part to also be a blank slate, because I think on some level that could have been challenging. You know, you, you've come in with a certain set of experience, but you were so willing to-- you put that aside just to learn from a master. And so, you know, also kudos to you because that, I mean, I guess that is humility, but, you know, but that could be hard. So I think that that's really commendable that you were just like...

[00:24:00] Patricia Karen Gagic: Yeah. You know, Lindsey, we, we all have ego. I mean, that's, that's who we are. And unless, you know, you, you come to this world ego-less, which I don't think that's the case for, for us as humans. When you're dealing with somebody who has such a high IQ and his, his ability, I mean, he's a master chess player that he's, he's beyond well-read, speaks many languages, has studied every single artist living, dead. And, you know, just as an example, one day we were in the Italia, and he said, "Let's just do something a little bit different." And he, he opened up a book and I don't remember whose painting it was.  And he chose one portion of the painting that was sort of like a white area, like a white creamy area.

[00:24:54] And he said, "You know, you know how simple things look when you, when you examine them?" I said, "Yes." And he goes, "Let's try and create that color." And I said, "Like off the painting?" And he goes, "Yeah," he says, "You have the palette." He said, "Go to it." Lindsey, if you ever wanted to shoot your self sometimes... I spent from nine o'clock until noon. And I, he came in once or twice and it was "Zero," you know? And that's how he would speak to me. "Zero. No, Patricia." I was like, "Are you kidding me?" I've got titanium white. I've got to think white. I'm adding 568. I've got this. And I'm, I'm just going out of my mind, could not, I could not figure out how to create that particular color in that painting. We went to lunch, came back after two o'clock because we always take two hour lunches, and said, "Keep going."

[00:25:50] So I did. And it had to have been like from two to five o'clock. And I could not, I could not make that color. And I was every combination, a little bit more of this, a little bit more of that, a little less of this, a drop of black. It did not matter. I was, I was caught. And then at the end of that, he said to me, he goes, "You know," he said the greatest lesson that one has to learn is the true appreciation for the palette and the depth by which any, any artist chooses to make it their life effort. And we became, you know, the appreciation for every painting, for every aspect of every painting for the colors. You know, when you look at some of the paintings, you know, again, I'm in, this is the simple part of this. Like you look at Roscoe or you look at, you know, where there's only one or two, it appears that there are just a very, you know, one color painting. And yet in order for them to have created that particular color, the complexity, the combination, or the recipe of, of that is it's, it is genius.

[00:27:03] And knowing what belongs to what. So I think, you know, the frustrations that I-- and I have had many frustrations, of course you'd have to over the course of all these years. But the appreciation I have, I think is what endured and the challenges that were put in front of me opened my eyes, I think, to, to really appreciating every single person who makes the attempt or, or decides that they want to examine, study, become historians of art. It's just a passion beyond a passion for those that do it. And, you know, I guess, yes, I, I feel I have an extraordinary heritage, you know, lineage by being part of a Dragic's world.

[00:27:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's just so cool. And goodness gracious. Yes. I can imagine wanting to rip your hair out in that moment of trying to figure out, oh my gosh, this magic combination. Oh jeez.

[00:28:11] Patricia Karen Gagic: The craziness about it is that it's it's in every single painting that you look at. There's always going to be from, from any-- it does not matter-- there will always be a color that, you know, you think you can just repeat that. And he proved to me, you know, your, until you become a true master, your eyes will trick you.

[00:28:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's powerful. Oh my goodness. Okay. So your, your, background is just amazingly rich and, and just fantastic. And I'm sure your future trajectory is going to be exactly the same, as far as their richness of it. So I'm just curious, what are you up to now and sort of, where do you envision your art going next?

[00:28:57] Patricia Karen Gagic: Well, we probably could have another hour conversation. I have this very unique past. I became extremely interested over the course of, you know, the last 30 or 40 years with studying different things. And that includes, oh, everything from physics, from different religions, from Buddhism. Just looking at the iconography of, of different things and I studied at the University of Toronto Applied Mindfulness and Transformative Mindfulness while I was still doing all of this with my art and, and business. And I felt that the mindfulness piece in the meditation was, was really, really important and vital to the methodology of my work. And then I, I decided to create something that I could offer people, sort of like a program, and I'm only doing sort of beta testing right now. I, I've done a few and they've turned out quite lovely.

[00:30:00] It's not really art as healing, but there is a, a refined inspiration. So I basically take people through a two to three hour session where we do a bit of meditation and at the same time, then depending upon the group that I have, I will then tailor it to that. So for example, I did the Can150, which is mostly the female Canadian Olympians and sports, sports women. And I did the "Finding Your Inner Hero" basically. And I took them through a two to three hour session where they all had paint and, you know, we put the layers on the paint and then I, I walked them through questions to inspire them to, to dig deep inside as to how they feel, where there are no mistakes. But I like to think that people don't give themselves permission to experience their own wisdom and that when they do the results are life-changing. So everyone so far who I've done this with has, has really pushed me and encouraged me to, to offer it. So it's the Karmic Art Experiences what I'm calling it.

[00:31:12] And I was, I've been very fortunate also in my life having an opportunity to help people and serve people. And I was recognized by the it's the WXN, the Women's Executive Network in Canada, the Top 100 Most Powerful Women in Canada. It's the organization that I have actually been nominated to and I've won four times. So I've been a three, three time, four time nominated and winner of the Top 100 Most Powerful Women in Canada. And then in 2018, I was inducted into the hall of fame. And when I, when I got that, thank you. When that happened, Sherry Stevens, who was the owner of, of WXN, she said to me, "Patricia, do you think you would do a WXN art experience for us?"

[00:31:55] So I did. So I had, you know, quite a few of the top 100 women in Canada on the, on the Zoom call. And I took them through the Karmic Art Experience, and I cannot even explain how, how deeply profound I recognize that self-care is really needed, especially with women who are in high profile positions. You yourself would know this and that you sometimes work yourself really hard and you don't, you don't stop long enough to actually give yourself permission to, to have a play date with yourself. So by doing the Karmic Art Experience, I'm encouraging people that once they've done it, they, if they want it to continue with my program, which I'll probably create maybe a six week program. But if not that they should still endeavor and push and give themselves that time to find what makes them happy, how they can be happier. And it is as, as complicated as, you know, our minds and our lives can be. It's that complex simplicity that is really needed.

[00:33:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. That's that's so cool. Well, and congratulations on that. That is a huge accomplishment and obviously you've super deserve it, but just congratulations on that. Awesome. Yeah. And what a cool real experience. I love, I love what you're doing. I love that you're helping women, especially, but I'm sure people in general, just, yeah, like you said, have that play date, have that self-care that's like you said, it's, it's vital. And so thank you for, for doing that. And I'm excited to see, you know, if that does end up becoming a course or how that sort of plays out in the future, but speaking of that --while I'm sure that there are listeners who would love to see some of your artwork, maybe hear more about this new experience-- is there a way for them to connect with you or to see some of your work?

[00:33:58] Patricia Karen Gagic: Yes, I, I'm very approachable and I always like to give my email out to people because I, I feel that's a communication tool that, you know, sometimes you have, you do have more control over. So [email protected]. So [email protected]. And then my work is, I'm represented by a couple of galleries. 13th Street Gallery is in St. Catherine's and there's also my website, which is patriciakarengagic.com. And I also have inspiredtoberewired.com. And that talks a little bit, I have a project in Cambodia that I started in 2006, and there's some information on that as well.

[00:34:49]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you.

[00:34:51] Patricia Karen Gagic: Thank you.

[00:34:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I, yeah, well, I am just incredibly inspired by your stories and I just think what an amazing, oh my goodness, what an amazing life that you've had so far, and it's just only going to continue to be, I'm sure, wonderful. And I appreciate how much you are, are open and, you know, willing to share with everyone and that. Thank you for that. And thank you also for what you're doing now, because I know that's making a difference in people's lives. And so I think it's really special that you're using a passion and a skill that you have to, to help others. So thank you for that. I commend you for that.

[00:35:31] Patricia Karen Gagic: Thank you.

[00:35:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and I do have three questions that I always like to ask my guests, if you're okay with it.

[00:35:37] Patricia Karen Gagic: Okay, sure. I'll try it.

[00:35:39]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. You'll be great. First of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:35:45]Patricia Karen Gagic:  Oh, okay. I think art is liberating and it is the, probably the most relevant document of history that exists.

[00:36:01]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. Okay. Love it. And then what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:36:09] Patricia Karen Gagic: I think it's liberation, freedom, total expression, and to help shift the misconceptions of, of reality. And it's an opportunity to interpret whatever it is that you, as a human being are here, are here in your own path to experience. And yeah, it's, it's the artist journey.

[00:36:36]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. And my final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that, inclusive referring to an artist who puts their work out into the world and provide some context behind that, whether it's a title or show notes or just context somehow, it's the inspiration. Versus exclusive referring to an artist who puts their work out there, but doesn't provide context behind it and basically leaves it solely up to the viewer to determine what they will.

[00:37:13] Patricia Karen Gagic: Wow. That's a powerful question because that's like chicken and the egg.

[00:37:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Indeed.

[00:37:19] Patricia Karen Gagic: Yeah. I I'm in, I'm in both of those mindsets. So first of all, I, I oftentimes think that a piece of work that I've completed deserves a title because yeah, I want to express and acknowledge the, that moment so I will do it, but I'm also in the, in the family of, it's my expression. I, if I wanted to write a book about something, I should write the book. The art should stand alone. It is its own word document, and it's for the person to choose, see with their eyes and interpret. So again, that's yeah. I said, I'm sorry, I can't give you one or the other. Both.

[00:38:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, that's completely fair. I love it. Okay. Well, thank you so much again, Patricia, for being here today and just for sharing all of your stories and I I'm just really blown away. I loved listening to everything that you've done, and I'm just so excited for, for this new venture that you're, you know, really embarking on now. And I just think that, you know, you bring so much beauty to the world and I just appreciate it. And I really appreciate you being here today. So thank you so much.

[00:38:41] Patricia Karen Gagic: Thank you, Lindsey. No, I've, I've loved our, I've loved this so much. It's nice to be able to share, you know, my past, some of that. So thank you for this opportunity. You're great. Thank you.

[00:38:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Aww, thank you. Yes. And thank you so much to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two, and definitely check out Patricia's work, and we will catch you next time.

[00:39:11]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:39:20]Hi friends. I wanted to share with you another podcast that I think you're going to fall in love with just as I have. It's called Harlem with a View, and it is hosted by Harlem Lennox, who was a previous guest of mine on Artfully Told and a dear friend. Just because it looks easy doesn't mean it is. There is so much that goes into the work of your creative. She wants to know how the artists got into their line of work, what inspires them, but most importantly, what keeps them going? She'd asked them about how they make it through the blood, sweat, and tears. She wants to know what it's like to live this creative life: the good, the bad, the ugly, and even the magical. So she goes behind the scenes with creatives, from different genres and she explores their history, their take on life and talks about the business of art and the dedication of making art. She has a brilliant, brilliant platform. I think you will fall in love. I highly recommend that you search for Harlem with a View. Thanks!