In this special episode, recorded on the sidelines of ASPI’s annual conference ‘Disruption and Deterrence’, David Wroe speaks with Kori Schake. As well as being Director of Foreign and Defense Policy at the American Enterprise Institute, Kori is a contributing writer for The Atlantic and a regular on the popular Deep State Radio podcast.

David and Kori talk about the future of the international order, the state of American politics — from the perspective of a lapsed Republican — and Kori’s irrepressible optimism about the future of democracy and open economies.

Guests: David Wroe: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/david-wroe Kori Schake: https://www.aei.org/profile/kori-schake/

Music: "Think Different" by Scott Holmes, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk