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more at orlandofourbusiness.com. This

0:32

is a CBC Podcast. Hey

0:35

there, I'm Rosemary Barton. This week on At

0:37

Issue, the podcast edition for Thursday, April 25th.

0:43

At Issue, a budget strategy meant to

0:45

revive the liberal government, but early polling

0:47

suggests the party has not yet received

0:49

the bump they were hoping for. It's

0:51

not about political popularity. It's about doing

0:53

the right thing to set every

0:56

generation up for success. So

0:59

this week we're asking how are Canadians

1:01

responding to the budget? What more can

1:03

the liberals do to close the gap?

1:05

Chantilly Bear, Andrew Coyne and El Fia

1:07

Raj join me to talk about that

1:09

and more. Plus Pierre Poilyev is facing

1:11

criticism for meeting with carbon tax protesters

1:13

with alleged ties to extremist movements. I

1:16

don't know really like how much, how

1:18

soon you should expect to see any kind of bounce

1:20

from a budget, but I would also

1:22

argue that this budget is not just a week

1:24

old. It's more like three weeks old because of

1:26

the strategy that the liberals put in place of rolling

1:28

it out. But how concerning should this be for

1:31

the liberal? Chantilly, I'll start with you. Oh,

1:36

we've had what this week, half

1:38

a dozen polls and they

1:40

all look the same. And they all look

1:42

like the polls that were

1:44

published before the budget roll out and the

1:47

budget. So basically

1:50

you're looking at polls that show very little

1:52

movement. If I

1:54

were in the liberal war room,

1:56

I would ask myself whether Canadians

1:59

have just tuned out the

2:02

Prime Minister and the Liberal message and

2:04

its messengers. I've

2:06

also noticed that in

2:08

the background to all of this budget

2:10

rollout, there's been quite a

2:12

bit of talk and interest in something

2:14

called leadership maneuvers. The

2:17

Minique Leblanc got

2:19

written up in the Globe column. Mark

2:22

Carney seems to have a lot of

2:24

speaking engagements to Liberal crowds.

2:27

So put together, what that

2:29

tells me is there are more Liberals

2:31

today looking at the polls and thinking

2:33

to themselves. Justin

2:36

Trudeau may be doing things

2:38

that people approve. There is

2:40

support for the housing chapter, for

2:42

instance. But we

2:46

need a new messenger because he's lost

2:48

his audience. Some

2:50

of this, as Chantal says, Andrew, some of

2:53

the polls do suggest that Canadians like pieces

2:55

of what they're hearing from the Liberals. But

2:57

I also wonder, do

2:59

we think that Canadians are paying attention at all?

3:02

Is this also like about it's just not

3:04

what Canadians are spending time talking about right

3:06

now? Well, the Liberals went to great

3:08

lengths to make them pay attention. So

3:11

that two or three week effectively

3:13

election campaign that preceded the budget

3:16

was not for, you know, that was not usual.

3:18

So they were clearly banking

3:20

on something coming out of this. They were betting a lot

3:22

on it. And I think they don't think they can now

3:24

turn around and say, oh, well, we didn't expect to do

3:27

very much out of this budget. They were hoping. Now,

3:29

granted, that's not always the case. And it

3:31

may be, as Chantal said, that the Prime

3:34

Minister as salesman now and perhaps the

3:36

finance minister as well is

3:38

simply not connecting with Canadians. The approval rating or disapproval

3:40

rating I saw in one of the polls with the

3:42

Prime Minister was 66%. That's

3:45

getting into last days of Mulroney territory.

3:48

But also, I think even the message, you

3:50

know, at a time when people are very concerned about inflation

3:53

and affordability and when the message coming

3:55

out of the opposition thing has been

3:57

that is connected to higher spending, bigger

3:59

deficits. to come in

4:01

with essentially unchanged deficits, more spending is not

4:03

necessarily I think plugging into the public moon.

4:07

When people are, I think

4:09

also don't necessarily equate higher

4:12

taxes with fairness, I think there's

4:15

some polling data on this, that

4:17

they see this as not necessarily good for the economy.

4:19

I saw a couple polls on the specific thing of

4:21

the capital gains tax, which I really think the liberals

4:23

were hoping to set the woods on fire with. And

4:26

it was a plurality in one poll thought it was

4:28

a good idea, a plurality in another poll thought

4:30

it was a bad idea, but certainly not the

4:32

kind of big overwhelming yes, ticket to the rich

4:34

type of a message that I think they were

4:37

hoping to get from the public. So

4:39

does this mean that it's all over for

4:42

them? No, but they're running out of bullets,

4:44

they're running out of chances to connect with

4:46

Canadians in the limited time that's left before

4:48

the next election. Althea? Well,

4:51

I don't know. I mean, if the next election

4:53

is in 18 months, there is a lot of

4:55

stuff that can happen in that time. Well,

4:57

we don't even know if it will be 18 months, maybe not, maybe

4:59

the ND people surprise us. But

5:02

you know, like I think Trump's election could

5:05

have an impact. All this talk about another

5:07

Quebec referendum can have an impact. There

5:10

are international events that we don't

5:12

see coming that could have an impact. Maybe Justin

5:14

Trudeau decides to take a walk in the nice

5:16

sunny weather of Ottawa. Regardless,

5:19

I do think it's a little early to

5:21

put the X. A big

5:24

challenge for the Liberals has been and has been

5:26

for almost a year now the fact that a

5:28

lot of Canadians have tuned out the Prime Minister,

5:30

the party's primary spokesperson to Chantal's

5:32

point. That is a huge challenge when you're actually

5:34

trying to sell something. But

5:36

I question whether it is too early to talk

5:38

about this, because this is an election budget. It's

5:41

400 plus pages. I mean, it was a really big brick. And

5:44

there's stuff there that is micro targeting

5:46

certain communities. You know, there was money

5:48

for black Canadians for their mental health.

5:50

There was money for sick arts in

5:52

Toronto. There was money for

5:54

the Muslim community, the Jewish community. So

5:57

It will take some time for all those.

6:00

Ministers are designated Mps and do their

6:02

rounds and ethnic media and this very

6:04

young men new sad it's kind of

6:06

build momentum so far. Like the big

6:08

things that have been communicated seem to

6:10

be popular with Canadians. The housing that

6:12

humans in the Capital Gains tax was

6:15

a hundred and fifty six percent. But

6:17

again with that you know when and

6:19

when. Twenty seventeen. When Bill Morneau announced

6:21

his Hands of Finance Department announced the

6:23

changes, We. Didn't feel the

6:25

anger really. oh palpitate for like three

6:27

months and then it was like whoa,

6:29

what just happened? So I'd I think

6:32

it's a little early to put the

6:34

axe. I do think they have gone

6:36

back. To. Make one last point

6:38

to a kind of tried and true liberal

6:40

strategy like this is basically the twenties has been

6:42

by just. It is. We're going

6:44

to spend more we're going to

6:47

have deficit. We're going to ask the wealthy

6:49

to pay so that we can have a future

6:51

for Canada Canadians in a work for them then

6:53

and they're hoping they will work for them again.

6:55

But can you trust the same people to deliver

6:57

on the things that they said and twenty the

6:59

thing they would do that they haven't done? I

7:01

don't. Know what the sooners? it's first

7:03

subtle in that early and twenty

7:05

fifteen or was fresh now it's

7:08

old, i'm tired or for one

7:10

to on the capital dating games

7:12

of ducks. If the

7:14

liberals we're hoping to. Use

7:16

it as something that sounds. For fairness

7:18

between generations it would have

7:20

helps of the Conservative said

7:22

the. Picked. A fight with them

7:24

on of and they are not. I'm

7:27

not young.your I's yasir I suspect that

7:29

the this is not a battlefield that

7:31

this of them for us to the

7:34

conservatives are under the ropes or I'm

7:36

rambling and I agree that there are

7:38

a lot of issues that are micro

7:41

targeting audiences. But the real question is.

7:43

Or. Any of those initiatives, The kind

7:46

of initiatives that make people go to

7:48

the ballot box element to ask the

7:50

ballot for the government? That I don't

7:53

think so. I don't think you by

7:55

of Bowser with retail initiatives or at

7:57

least every government's I seem that tried.

8:00

I ended up in opposition and her.

8:03

Her Here In Twenty Fifteen, you're coming off

8:05

a period of relative fiscal conservatism. People were

8:07

looking for a change. They were willing to

8:09

go in a different direction for coming off

8:11

a period now of relative fiscal liberalism and

8:13

before also a think looking for a change

8:15

in direction. So to come up with the

8:17

same old thing I don't think it's necessarily

8:19

reading the times terrible wealth or I think

8:21

that must come back to the particular miss

8:23

in this budget at a time when I

8:25

think a large section of the suddenly of

8:27

the opinion making community and and more and

8:29

more so the public is very concerned about

8:31

the Us economy base of being stuck. In

8:33

the war that we're not getting the growth

8:35

we need that in fact that Gdp per

8:37

capita declining or to come up with the

8:40

budget. That not by my measure, but by

8:42

the measure of former Liberal finance Ministers John

8:44

Manly and Bill Morneau of the former Bank

8:46

of Canada govern possible future Liberal leader Earth

8:49

Mark Carney are all of whom said as

8:51

they missed the boat and they did not

8:53

address that. The growth question So you've got

8:55

Blue Liberals essentially looking at us and going

8:57

i I can't see my i can see

9:00

myself in this is is a part of

9:02

this basically abandoned. Us that's gotta hurt them

9:04

in terms of a point. Together a of

9:06

intellectual coalition going forward as well. As

9:08

you. Are

9:11

everything than as you said yes he resumed

9:14

sad debate. ah well I guess I've will

9:16

same as he things that I would be

9:18

watching for and let's face it to see

9:20

if there as soon as I mentioned that

9:22

can build I didn't know how saying. It.

9:25

So vague a really does for see the

9:27

kind of we imagine what you think the

9:29

government's role and housing is that the challenge

9:31

with that as they only have a year

9:33

to show movement and if they cannot show

9:35

movement and that time sent I don't think

9:37

they have a leg to stand on. The

9:39

other thing I would flag as I think

9:41

the relationship with the premier as and we

9:43

saw that last week with the counselor batteries

9:45

and letter. Where they said bite out

9:47

of our area jurisdiction. Set. Only

9:50

sucks about on antenna that the government.

9:53

I sing actually wants to have a fight with

9:55

a painter as they wanna be able to say,

9:57

you know, you guys are not moving on as

9:59

you. Are not being cooperative, You are not

10:01

matching. The reason that we're not getting to

10:03

where we need is your fault. In a

10:05

way they're stealing the province's playbook and using

10:07

get against them So I think those are

10:09

two interesting point of Tenzin it will be

10:11

and it will that I think will determine

10:13

whether or not this kind of the free

10:15

me around the budget exhaust let lot quicker

10:18

to center. But. At the search

10:20

for the government So if your flag

10:22

those two on a collision course with

10:24

itself because if it wants to demonstrate

10:27

that as ousting agenda works it's nice

10:29

cooperation with the provinces and by the

10:31

way all those provinces so that this

10:33

like the bugs with got a nice

10:36

gifts that with the capital gains tax

10:38

changes ah if is going to go

10:40

to their bottom line and away that

10:42

all provincial finance ministers are probably saying

10:45

this is great and we don't have

10:47

to wear with the system. Okay,

10:49

we're in a pause. this conversation, I'm sure we'll We'll talk

10:52

more about this in the coming weeks, but when we come

10:54

back or in a take a look at pure folly of.

10:56

Roadside meeting with protesters. Really?

11:02

Years. Five

11:06

minutes stop. The

11:10

feminists are liars. The who is a conservative

11:13

leader trying to court? They're. Pure

11:17

folly of is facing criticism for meeting

11:19

with carbon tax protesters who seems to

11:21

be tied to extremism. Prime

11:27

minister says talia stoking division and

11:29

fear for his own game? Really?

11:31

Shows that he will do. Anything.

11:35

With. The

11:37

what's he made a poly a pit stop with protesters

11:39

how will it play out for him politically her To

11:42

break it down some more subtle and or lcs of

11:44

the author with you because you wrote about this will

11:46

you You combine both of our topic nicely the call

11:48

him but they all start with you because that. Was.

11:50

Where you started. What do you

11:53

think this this meeting does for. Pure

11:55

folly of for for for good or for bad.

11:59

I think he was an air. In judgments of

12:01

that the Conservative leader showed you

12:03

almost get a sense from video

12:05

that he seems to recognize that

12:07

oh what did I walk into?

12:09

I'm. What

12:12

bothers me that the video is not

12:15

that he stops talk to people who

12:17

might have been involved with things that

12:19

he should not want to be involved

12:21

in at one point. Frankly, she says

12:24

oh so when I asked the tax

12:26

because this is an encampment that is.

12:30

Apparently. They are protesting the tax, but

12:32

some of the same people have been involved.

12:34

In protesting vaccines are to the

12:36

back, The mandatory vaccination. He

12:39

says when you when I asked the taxes

12:41

as will be able to go home because

12:43

they've been sitting there for at the time

12:45

twenty three days living in their car and

12:47

one of the woman says oh when how

12:50

soon will that be Clearly she wants to

12:52

be able to go home and. And

12:54

he doesn't tell her to go

12:57

home like if you care about

12:59

people and alleviating suffering. You.

13:01

Should tell people that you will acts

13:03

the tax and it doesn't matter. If.

13:06

They are living in their car at the

13:08

side of the road or not or if

13:10

they're at home in the warm bed it

13:12

doesn't matter, they do not need to be

13:14

doing this and it would be the healthier

13:16

for them probably. I mean I'm not certain

13:18

people like to have a sense of community

13:20

and maybe this is where they get their

13:22

fun. but I think of you really really

13:24

want people the best interest at heart. Surely

13:26

you can tell them that they're not the

13:28

reason why there is a carbon tax and

13:31

place you know what? Like that to me

13:33

and oh that's not where you thought I

13:35

was gonna go. really find. That and. But.

13:38

I was very disturbed by

13:40

that one idea. my Alia,

13:42

You. Get to go where you want to go.

13:44

That's what is it. Swayed by sir invite? It's somehow

13:47

what? what? What did you make of of the encounter?

13:50

While. I understand the temptation

13:52

to go shake hands with people. Who

13:55

seem to be fellow travelers On what

13:57

you've made your main slogan. axl

13:59

attacks except that

14:02

what drew Mr. Polyev's attention were

14:04

the acts that tax flags, but

14:07

also there were a number

14:09

of F Trudeau

14:11

flags, which have become

14:13

common. There were enough of them that they

14:15

wanted him to take a picture with that

14:17

backdrop, and he wisely chose to have his

14:19

picture taken with a different backdrop. But

14:22

I was trying to think, I've

14:24

covered a number of opposition leaders

14:26

who became Prime Minister. Brian Malroni,

14:28

Jean-Claude Chien, Stephen Harper, Justin Trudeau.

14:31

I don't think any of them would have

14:33

made a stop or a

14:35

detour if they'd seen flags that

14:37

said F whoever

14:40

was the Prime Minister of the day at that

14:42

point. It becomes a matter

14:44

of civil discourse and a matter of

14:46

principle, and I think on that it

14:48

was an error in judgment. I

14:51

mean, there was obviously Andrew some

14:54

notion about appealing to the argument that

14:56

he is making about against the carbon

14:58

tax and who segment of the population

15:00

that he has met before. This

15:03

group is sort of self-described as a

15:06

convoy and certainly shared some of the

15:08

views of the convoy that was here in

15:10

Ottawa that Conservatives went out and met with

15:12

as well. Yeah, at some

15:14

point he has to decide whether again whether he's

15:16

running for Prime Minister or running for opposition leader.

15:18

You're 20 points ahead in the polls. At some

15:21

point you start to consolidate, you start to bring

15:24

people in rather than telling people who you don't

15:26

like. And this is certainly

15:28

still appealing to the same strategy of

15:30

whipping up emotions and playing to resentments

15:32

and fears. I wouldn't make

15:34

too much of it. I think people, you know,

15:36

there was a Diago on patch somewhere scrawled on

15:38

the side of the thing. I don't imagine he wants much

15:41

to do with that group, particularly after what they said about

15:43

his wife last year. But it's

15:46

the same. There's a context though to this, which

15:49

is, you know, hanging out with the lawless

15:52

mob that occupied the streets of Ottawa

15:54

was probably the low point. But also,

15:56

you know, some of the Coochier

15:58

stuff with the world Economic. Mccormack said are

16:01

it's it's winking at that audience that

16:03

group couldn't people's party voters saying well

16:05

you know you, you can country you

16:07

know you can stay inside the tent

16:09

the same time he wants mainstream boards

16:11

of think okay he's just doing that

16:13

for political reasons. doesn't really believe the

16:15

stuff. I think that's probably true but

16:17

the the voters should not be put

16:20

the position of having to wonder or

16:22

whether the next feminists are Canada is

16:24

a mainstream in of normal politician or

16:26

somebody who hangs out with with extremists

16:28

and and the dire glancing. That. It when

16:30

I talk about extremists it's that diack line

16:32

a flag that were pointed to whether side

16:34

or knew it was there that I think

16:36

that different questions front elena office. Yes

16:39

I you know Sarah person with the

16:41

Mr by the of have the towards

16:44

to stop and have a talk with

16:46

people who were demonstrating for the climate

16:48

Know I know you know the answer

16:51

to that. but for the average voter.

16:53

Ah, Having a prime minister who

16:55

can actually talk about the environment

16:58

with people who are concerned that

17:00

would be the vast majority of

17:02

Canadians works better than having a

17:04

prime minister. Was seems to

17:06

some the message that Sir A

17:08

he will be happy to talk

17:11

with people who occupy. Parliament

17:13

Hill or occupy of the border

17:16

between two provinces up with Zeus

17:18

Earth that serves make them believe

17:20

that the if they sit there

17:23

for forever politicians will take these

17:25

kinds of events that he's encouraging.

17:27

Know. Will. Come back

17:30

to haunt conservative government. If

17:32

and when. There is one led

17:34

by Mr. Plenty of because those tactics

17:36

will be used on him. And

17:39

I thought your starting point. Lcn The column

17:41

which at others have mentioned is it was what.

17:44

Why why do something like this when you're twenty

17:46

points ahead Legal it was if you're have to

17:48

pull over and toss everybody on the street you

17:50

just don't up. Do. Now.

17:53

i mean i'm suppose that he

17:55

felt a little comfortable ah a

17:57

little too comfortable to take that

17:59

risk as I think right now, you know, we're

18:01

living in a different era than we were 20 years

18:03

ago. Everybody has a cell phone. You have to expect

18:05

that everywhere you go, there will be a record of

18:07

it and it will be broadcast on social media. And

18:10

you don't know what you're entering. And

18:12

that's not just for this group of individuals that

18:14

are protesting in the carbon tax. You don't know

18:16

that about any type of protest. And you should

18:18

be very careful about where you go and what

18:20

symbols might be there and who you're associating with

18:22

if you don't know who these people are. But

18:26

beyond that, I think, you

18:28

know, Andrew said he's kind of, you

18:30

know, winking at conspiracy theorists. He's not

18:32

just winking. He is engaging

18:35

them. He is affirming what they

18:37

have said on the World

18:39

Economic Forum, for example, that Justin Trudeau's government

18:41

is run by the World Economic Forum. We've seen

18:43

that during door knocks. And

18:47

placating, encouraging

18:50

people who, frankly, are

18:52

detached from reality is

18:55

not the kind of leadership that

18:57

we should expect for somebody who wants to

19:00

be the prime minister of the country. Like,

19:02

you have to have a certain baseline

19:05

of like, this is what the

19:07

facts are. And if

19:09

we don't encourage our political leaders

19:11

to have a discussion based on

19:13

facts, then we are not going

19:16

to be able to come as

19:18

a country, as a society together

19:20

and talk about big questions that

19:22

the country faces. We

19:24

will not be able to find grounds where

19:27

we can cooperate, where we can agree,

19:29

even agree to disagree.

19:31

Like, that's the scary part. And you can kind

19:33

of see what's happening down south. And I don't

19:35

think anybody in this country wants to

19:37

have what's happening in the United States happening in Canada.

19:40

Quickly, Andrew. I'm not sure if it's

19:42

overconfidence or if they're still nervous about the People's Party

19:44

and want to make sure that they keep that tamped

19:46

down and don't give them in. Well,

19:49

I think those votes in close writing, those can matter.

19:51

And I think that I think they want to make

19:53

sure that doesn't happen. But the thing is, you know,

19:55

it maybe doesn't show up in the polls now in

19:57

terms of hurting them. No

20:00

doubts like that. If you leave doubts that don't

20:02

show up now, but they're the kind of thing

20:04

that can show up in the heat and the

20:06

pressure crack of an election campaign. If people are

20:08

nervous about this, if they're leaving mainstream voters wondering

20:10

what's the sky all about. So that's the potential

20:12

price. We'll see whether it has to pay it

20:14

or not. Very quickly,

20:16

Chantal. Very quickly. And they would be wrong,

20:18

the Conservatives, to believe that they have closed

20:20

their deal with voters who

20:23

did not vote Conservative in

20:25

2021 because from anecdotal evidence,

20:28

that's not the case. Honda

20:34

has plans for a new EV battery plant in

20:36

Alliston, Ontario with the help of billions in

20:38

federal and provincial investment. This

20:40

government, we're making choices to invest,

20:42

to try and these

20:46

important country companies that

20:48

were creating jobs. So

20:51

what's made of this big new

20:53

investment is Canada attracting investors or

20:55

subsidizing a whole sector. Let's bring

20:57

everybody back. Chantal, Andrew and

20:59

Althea. I suppose the answer could be it's doing both

21:01

of those things. But I

21:03

mean, this is a significant amount

21:05

of money. It's a big deal

21:08

for Ontario. Andrew,

21:10

is this the way that you, and I know

21:12

I almost know your answer, but I'm going to

21:14

ask you anyway. Is this the way that you

21:16

build an industry? Like do you

21:19

need some kind of conduct to choose

21:21

Canada over all the other places it could have done

21:23

this? First of all, just on the

21:25

expense, it's $5 billion for what they claim

21:27

is a thousand jobs. That's $5 million a

21:29

job. You could hire five times as many

21:31

people at $100,000 a year for

21:33

10 years for the same money. But

21:35

of course, you're not actually creating a thousand

21:37

jobs because there's no shortage of jobs in

21:39

Ontario. You're basically luring people and the resources

21:41

away from other sectors. You

21:44

know, you always destroy as many jobs

21:46

as you create when you're playing this kind of game.

21:48

Why are you doing? Because you think you're going to

21:50

get what, first mover advantage in electric vehicles and electric

21:52

vehicle batteries. I got news for them. The Chinese have

21:54

been at this for 20 years. So

21:56

all they're really doing is plowing a lot

21:59

of money into an industry that's... they think is going

22:01

to be a winner, but where they're only

22:03

going to be basically matching other countries' subsidies.

22:05

So it's not like we're going to create

22:07

some massive empire in Canada, in this industry,

22:09

and it's not clear whether electric

22:11

vehicles are going to take over in quite the way that they

22:13

are. There's a lot of doubts about

22:15

it in the marketplace right now. If they do, it's not

22:17

clear that this particular battery technology is going to be the

22:19

one that's going to take over the world. They're making enormous

22:22

bets, $50 billion before this,

22:24

when you include interest costs and tax

22:26

write-offs, for the three plants before this, and

22:28

they're now going to add another $5 billion to it. It's

22:31

an enormous bet with not just

22:33

an uncertain payoff, but almost a certainty that it's

22:35

not going to be worth the money. Yeah, I

22:38

guess the difference between the previous announcements with

22:40

Volkswagen and Stellantis is those were

22:42

subsidies. These are tax credits. It's a

22:44

little bit different, maybe a little more

22:47

palatable. I thought maybe that

22:49

would make it slightly more palatable to

22:51

Andrew. Maybe not. Shut down. I

22:56

think for all the talk about being ahead

22:58

of some curve, they're actually playing defense on

23:00

this in the sense that they're

23:02

trying to protect the auto industry and

23:06

trying to avoid Southern

23:08

Ontario to be carved out of it by

23:12

making these rather massive taxpayer

23:14

investments. Whether

23:16

that's going to turn out to be a

23:19

good bet or not, we won't

23:21

know for a while. What I

23:23

don't expect is for Pierre Poitlier to say he's

23:25

going to take the chips off the table from

23:28

that bet. Why say that?

23:30

Because if you look back at those pictures

23:32

you showed, who was standing right next

23:34

to the Prime Minister beaming the

23:37

conservative premier of Ontario. I

23:40

don't expect Pierre Poitlier to campaign in

23:42

Ontario against both Doug

23:44

Ford and Justin Trudeau. It would be pretty

23:46

hard to undo, Elthea, I think. You

23:50

got a sense during the first announcement,

23:52

the Volkswagen announcement, that they weren't really

23:54

onside and that there was sort of

23:56

a schism between the local MPs and

23:58

the local and the mayor of

24:00

St. Thomas who used to be a Conservative MP, and

24:04

the team around Mr. Poliev, but you don't get

24:06

that sense at all. And we talked a little

24:09

bit earlier about how the

24:11

Conservatives have not come out against the capital

24:13

gains changes. They have not come out and

24:16

said anything critical about this either so far.

24:19

So I have to say, I

24:21

think there were a

24:23

lot of skeptics about the government

24:25

strategy last year when the

24:28

big announcement started happening. But

24:31

now it seems like they have managed to build

24:33

a cluster and to Chantal's point, they

24:36

needed to, we knew they needed to, but they

24:39

have succeeded, I think, or

24:41

they will have succeeded a generation from now. We

24:43

will know whether or not we are right. And

24:46

ensuring that you have that market access with

24:48

the United States, so there is an auto industry in

24:50

Ontario. And they're willing

24:53

to pump a lot of money, and the provinces are

24:55

willing to pump a lot of money. It was interesting

24:57

that we got to be a bit of a

24:59

fly on the wall in terms of the discussions

25:01

between Quebec and Ontario and who was gonna win

25:03

and not. So there's a little bit of lifting

25:06

of the curtain. I do wonder if it will

25:08

accentuate some regional tensions, feeling that Ontario

25:10

is getting a large chunk of the pie, but

25:13

we'll see what the premiers eventually

25:15

say about that. Okay, I'm gonna leave it

25:17

there. Thank you all very much. That is

25:19

at issue for this week. What do you

25:21

think about Poliev meeting with some of those

25:23

protesters and what he said? Let us know.

25:25

And send us a DM on Instagram, at

25:27

CBC The National. You can email ask at

25:29

cbc.ca. And remember, you can catch me on

25:31

Rosemary Barton Live, Sundays at 10 a.m. Eastern.

25:34

We'll be back in your podcast feeds next week. Thanks

25:36

so much for listening. For

25:40

more CBC podcasts, go

25:42

to cbc.ca/ podcasts.