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[Music]

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hello everybody you're listening to

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season 2 episode 15 of the attempt

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Adventure podcast a podcast all about

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travel finding Adventure every day and

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seeking out adventurous ways to make

0:27

life more interesting from Dallas Texas

0:29

I'm your host James Barrett joined as

0:32

always by my wonderful co-host Michael

0:36

derosers in Bangkok Thailand how are you

0:39

today James

0:40

I am living are you settling in back

0:44

home

0:45

hmm we can get into this simpler I'm not

0:47

super thrilled but I know whatever

0:50

how are you doing I am a lot better than

0:53

I was last week that's for sure so uh

0:55

folks I came down with the uh SARS Cove

0:58

too I got coronavirus last Arona yeah so

1:03

I have been very very careful I don't

1:04

even know where I got it I only go to

1:06

like 7-Eleven I work from home it must

1:10

have been there then maybe yeah

1:13

I was being really smug about it too I

1:16

was like because everyone else in my

1:17

family's gotten it I thought I was one

1:19

of those lucky people that has a natural

1:20

immunity to it you know because like my

1:22

wife got it and I obviously spent a lot

1:24

of time with her and her sister got it

1:26

who lives with us my parents back home

1:28

got it although I wasn't with them at

1:30

the time my brothers had I was like the

1:31

last man standing in my family that's

1:33

not had it

1:35

and I was kind of joking like James a

1:37

week ago I was telling my wife I was

1:39

like you know I kind of feel left out

1:40

everyone's having this experience I was

1:42

being very I was joking about I was

1:44

being cocky but a couple days later I

1:46

had a scratchy throat and I did a little

1:48

antigen test and wouldn't you know it I

1:50

was positive so I isolated myself at a

1:53

hotel for a week

1:54

for me I have never tested positive yeah

1:58

my wife is certain that I did have it

2:01

I however

2:03

am still holding strong with thee I

2:05

never tested positive for it so

2:07

therefore I never had it

2:09

yeah that's the Donald Trump method of

2:11

beating the virus remember he said we

2:13

were testing too much since my wife's

2:16

grandmother lives with us uh just uh to

2:19

keep the family safe I went and isolated

2:21

at a hotel it was the same Hotel I was

2:23

in way back in the day when I was

2:25

quarantining after I was exposed when

2:27

everyone was freaking out about it back

2:29

like two years ago we did a couple

2:30

episodes of ear goggles

2:33

back then it's a very okay hotel but it

2:36

was fine did you at least have a decent

2:38

time stuck in the hotel

2:40

I mean I ordered Taco Bell one time

2:43

how was that how's Thai Taco Bell it's

2:46

okay that's pretty much what you'd

2:48

expect not not much beef most stuff is

2:51

pork or chicken yeah it's exactly what

2:53

you expect

2:54

you know I I will say that I do enjoy

2:58

every once in a while a nice Taco Bell

3:00

run yeah I know I haven't had it in like

3:02

probably

3:04

10 years or probably more than that I

3:06

don't know the last time I've had to

3:07

talk about maybe 15 years but I just

3:09

kind of felt like it I was like I'm sick

3:11

and I'm gonna have Mexican food yeah

3:15

quote unquote

3:18

uh that's funny you know what Red

3:20

Lobster just opened a branch here in

3:22

Thailand and I'm really excited to see

3:23

what that's like Thai Red Lobster

3:26

as long as they still have the biscuits

3:28

then I'm sorry I know because it's the

3:30

only that's the only reason to go to Red

3:32

Lobster Thailand has really good seafood

3:34

yeah I know why open a Red Lobster well

3:37

it's gonna do really well just like

3:39

Sizzler does I love Sizzler

3:42

foreign

3:43

doesn't exist here anymore I don't think

3:46

I don't think it exists in the United

3:48

States and there's a there's a Sizzler

3:51

here at like every shopping center every

3:53

Mall

3:54

the ties love Sizzler what can I say

3:56

I love that salad bar man

3:59

I do too not gonna lie

4:03

anyway what are we talking about today

4:06

Michael this week we're going to be

4:07

talking with Ellie Johnson author of the

4:10

Barons a fantastic book that is a novel

4:13

based on her hey you're holding it right

4:15

there yes you've got it right there it

4:17

is a novel based on her adventures it's

4:19

fictional

4:20

um but it is based on an Epic Journey

4:23

that she herself undertook in the

4:26

Canadian Barons past the Arctic Circle

4:28

via canoe it's one of the most remote

4:31

and dangerous places on Earth and so she

4:34

talks to me about

4:36

the about the book about the writing

4:38

process which she co-wrote with her

4:40

father

4:41

and also about her real life Adventure

4:43

that she took when she was 17 years old

4:46

yeah I mean I was like when I was 17 the

4:49

most adventurous thing I had done was

4:51

like

4:52

you know a week at Boy Scout camp I

4:54

wasn't yeah canoeing the Arctic so uh

4:57

pretty awesome so we had a great time

4:58

and so we're going to talk to her today

5:00

about her book and about her real life

5:02

adventures but first James I didn't do

5:04

anything new or adventurous unless you

5:06

count getting the virus I'm not sure if

5:07

you're going to give me a pass this week

5:09

or not otherwise

5:10

I get a pass okay getting the Corona

5:14

virus is a it's a pass

5:17

yeah for me I did take your advice and I

5:21

did um go birding

5:23

saw five Birds new Birds one of them was

5:27

like a

5:29

some kind of uh some kind of Finch it

5:32

was like kind of purple it's kind of

5:33

pretty cool looking

5:35

I don't know I'm not gonna bore

5:36

everybody with trying to guess Birds but

5:38

I could go birding

5:40

well good it's a fun hobby next time I'm

5:43

in America we can go birding together

5:45

all right guys well as I said today we

5:48

are talking to Ellie Johnson we are

5:50

talking to Ellie about her book the

5:52

Barons which you've got James you've got

5:55

the physical copy there I've read the

5:56

ebook without further Ado ladies and

5:59

gentlemen of the attempt Adventure

6:00

podcast author real life Adventurer

6:03

Ellie Johnson

6:08

foreign

6:16

podcast I'm glad that we were finally

6:19

able to uh to make this happen we had

6:21

some tech issues this morning but we're

6:23

here now and that's what matters for me

6:25

it's evening right so where where are

6:27

you right now where are you I'm in

6:28

Minnesota so for me it's like I'm

6:30

literally 12 hours away yeah it's 8pm

6:34

right well cool well the first thing is

6:36

why don't you just introduce yourself

6:37

and what is your relationship with

6:40

Adventure well my name is Ellie Johnson

6:42

I'm one of the co-authors of uh the

6:45

Barons a story of love and death in the

6:47

Canadian Arctic

6:49

um which I wrote with my father Kurt

6:51

Johnson and we wrote this fiction story

6:54

about uh two lesbian women who go

6:57

traveling on a river in the Arctic and

7:00

one of them has an accident and gets

7:01

severely injured we wrote that story

7:04

based in a lot of ways on

7:07

my upbringing but also a trip I took

7:09

with three other women uh in 2016 when I

7:13

was 17 uh to the far Northern Canadian

7:15

Arctic along the Felon River uh which is

7:18

in the Arctic Circle so I'm a I'm a high

7:21

school teacher and I teach 17 year olds

7:23

and it is just incredible to think of

7:25

anyone going I mean I've never done

7:27

anything like that I when I was 17 the

7:29

most adventurous thing I think I had

7:30

done is maybe you know a night away at a

7:33

at a state park or something like that I

7:34

mean that's amazing

7:37

that was the summer between uh high

7:39

school and college so it was you know I

7:42

graduated high school and then I did a

7:44

little trip with my parents and then I

7:46

spent two months in uh the Arctic and

7:50

then I came home and I went to college

7:52

wow yeah it was just kind of something

7:55

that was built up uh through years of

7:57

going to the summer camp that eventually

7:59

sent me to the Arctic it was like me two

8:02

other women around my age and another

8:05

woman who is our counselor who is like

8:07

22 at the time like not not

8:09

significantly older than us by any means

8:12

but I had been doing like progressively

8:14

more Technical and challenging and long

8:16

trips and so I was about about seventh

8:19

fifth grade well that is so cool so what

8:21

about that inspired you to write the

8:22

novel how did you decide to write a book

8:24

well really when I came back

8:27

um my dad was the only one who was

8:28

really interested

8:30

my story is the nitty-gritty about

8:33

um the route we took the plants the

8:35

animals from the relationships that were

8:38

formed and ultimately

8:41

he like was pushing me while I was at

8:44

school I went to school for English he

8:46

was pushing me to write a story on my

8:49

own based on my experience there because

8:50

he was just so fascinated by the

8:52

environment and I said well honestly

8:55

dude I'm busy uh you write it and so he

8:58

went on to uh write a little Novella

9:01

based on my experiences about like two

9:03

women who go into the Arctic and one of

9:06

them dies and the other one has to carry

9:08

her body out and that story turned into

9:13

um a full novel over hours and hours of

9:15

uh conversations beers full uh and an

9:19

attempt on his part to flesh out these

9:21

characters and really recreate the

9:23

environment uh the story and everything

9:25

involved what was it like working with

9:27

your dad to write a book uh challenging

9:31

but fun and I mean we learned a lot

9:33

about each other I think at the end of

9:35

the day and he'll say this too it's like

9:36

he was put in a position where he felt

9:39

compelled to ask questions that no

9:41

parent really wants to know about their

9:43

kid about

9:45

um sexuality relationships both good and

9:47

bad about like intimacy and he was

9:52

willing to ask and so I was willing to

9:54

be honest and you know really work

9:57

through these questions of like who

9:59

these people are what makes like a full

10:01

character what makes like a lesbian

10:03

character all of those conversations

10:06

kind of led to these flesh child

10:07

characters and he had a lot of growth

10:10

between us maybe yeah and something that

10:14

stands out from the book and also I mean

10:15

from your real life Adventure so you

10:16

know if you have the stereotypical

10:18

Adventure you know who do you picture

10:19

it's probably some you know 35 year old

10:22

white man right so the fact of a novel

10:25

about you know women in adventure and a

10:27

real life story about women in an

10:28

adventure I think is really important

10:30

representation well and I think even

10:32

just my experience being on all female

10:35

trips growing up was a very unique my

10:39

Camp was going into some pretty uh harsh

10:43

environments like we were really going

10:44

to the back roads doing like tripping

10:46

areas that most like Advanced Outfitters

10:50

wouldn't go to for less than 10 grand

10:53

and we would get looks like oh you four

10:56

women in two canoes are just wandering

10:59

around like no one else is with you and

11:01

we're like nope we got it um you're not

11:05

asking those Boy Scouts with like 30 of

11:08

them and one counselor they're all 12

11:10

but that seems way more concerning to me

11:13

someone's dad and like 30 kids and like

11:16

camping out of the waterfall and he was

11:18

like look here goes swimming you don't

11:20

need shoes and every single Boy Scout is

11:23

a pyromaniac oh yeah

11:28

we were we love Stars I love working

11:31

with the stoves I later became totally

11:33

manager at the camp and my favorite part

11:35

was playing with the stoves and teaching

11:37

the kids uh fire tricks

11:40

well okay well let's talk a little bit

11:41

more about your uh your epic canoeing

11:44

Adventure so what were the most exciting

11:45

or or dangerous moments that happened

11:47

along the way

11:49

I mean the whole thing was like a light

11:51

mix of oh this is really peaceful oh my

11:54

God this is entirely dangerous and wow

11:58

I'm just uh this is such a remote area

12:01

there is no one near me this feels

12:03

really crazy uh I think some of the

12:06

moments that really stand out well as as

12:09

dangerous we had a few uh Crossings on

12:12

these major lakes that were towards the

12:14

end of the lake the end of the river you

12:16

have these Lake systems that are

12:18

actually like really massive lakes in an

12:20

area with no trees so the wind it's

12:24

really fast oh gosh and it becomes a

12:27

challenge paddling but on these big

12:28

lakes you start to see swells upwards of

12:31

like three meters it's like how do you

12:34

navigate that in the canoe wow you try

12:37

to avoid anything and

12:39

um Crossing at one point where we were

12:41

it was like two three mile Crossing we

12:44

were a mile at least from each Shore and

12:46

I was like oh gosh better not tip the

12:48

canoe

12:50

that's certain death so we just got to

12:52

keep paddling and really what you do is

12:55

um you get on your knees you get into

12:56

white water positions uh so that's uh

13:00

loose hips paddling strong paddling keep

13:02

the boat forward Don't Let It Go

13:05

um immediately to the side of the Waves

13:07

you want the front of the boat pointed

13:10

somewhat towards the waves then you can

13:12

break the waves but still move forward

13:14

which is a little bit Technical and

13:16

annoying but it's true it's if you're

13:18

ever caught in a wave in a boat don't

13:20

let the boat go sideways to the wave on

13:22

the other side of the coin how about the

13:24

most beautiful place that you saw or the

13:26

most memorable moment on your adventure

13:27

because that area just looking at the

13:29

photographs online of that part of

13:31

Canada it is just like so unbelievably

13:33

beautiful but what was like is there any

13:35

moment that just stood out as just

13:36

breathtaking I don't know the whole area

13:38

itself is just incredible it's kind of

13:40

like a desert made of sand moss and ice

13:44

and river systems so it's just like so

13:47

startling like you even like hiked 10

13:49

feet up on a hill and you can see from

13:51

house in any direction it's really

13:53

startling but in particular there was an

13:55

area we were paddling and we saw that

13:59

there was a marked set on the map and it

14:01

was marked like any of our sets we would

14:02

run or even just like hop across in a

14:05

boat if it was just over a couple of

14:07

rocks you know you shouldn't do that but

14:09

we we definitely both scouted since that

14:11

a couple times yeah but so this one we

14:13

like pull off to scout it it doesn't

14:16

look that bad we were talking about what

14:18

the run out might look like this one

14:19

might be a fun one to you know run in a

14:22

little bit maybe have some lunch because

14:23

it looked like a nice area we walked

14:25

about 10 feet and look and it's a

14:28

like a 40-foot waterfall

14:31

oh my gosh uh like giant rock precipice

14:35

in the middle and like a full 20-foot

14:38

drop to a ledge and then another one a

14:41

giant uh swirling hole at the polymers

14:43

like if you went in that not even a boat

14:45

would come out for at least half an hour

14:47

so we were like Okay We're not gonna run

14:49

that

14:50

it looks so low-key and it's like the

14:53

current is pulling you towards it and

14:55

it's just marked like any anything else

14:57

in the map so that was a little mix of

14:58

like dangerous but also it was one of

15:00

the most incredible waterfalls we've

15:01

ever seen and to like see something that

15:03

massive and beautiful that was like

15:06

unnamed that far up in a remote river

15:08

system and just felt like pretty insane

15:11

to see something that like in anywhere

15:12

else in the world this would be like a

15:14

you know a tourist destinations Parks

15:16

surrounding it it would have restaurants

15:18

and people taking pictures and climbing

15:20

where they weren't supposed to and

15:21

carving their names into rocks and here

15:24

it was just this hidden dangerous

15:28

beautiful you know giant Cliffs that

15:31

just opened up into like this big

15:33

plateau of the river system that like

15:35

went on for miles

15:38

you know that's one of the things that

15:40

um about that part of the world really

15:42

and one of the things that you mentioned

15:43

also in the in the book just how empty

15:46

it is you know you're just not seeing

15:47

anyone and that was one of obviously one

15:49

of the plot points right of the book The

15:51

Desperate searches or anyone around that

15:52

can help us and uh I mean you're

15:54

basically alone did you run into anyone

15:56

else while you were up there didn't see

15:58

another living soul after we were

16:01

dropped off by float plane day about 45.

16:05

I'd say where we saw a man fishing with

16:08

his son and as his custom along a river

16:12

like that he like stopped in to check in

16:14

and say hey how you doing everyone all

16:16

good you like need anything and we're

16:18

like no no we're still good we're still

16:20

on track and he was like okay just FYI

16:22

we're hunting a bear that's on the other

16:24

side of the river

16:25

um so maybe we'll stay on this side

16:27

we're like cool thanks man good to know

16:29

uh at Grizzlies yeah right well that's

16:32

yeah that's really scary that's actually

16:34

another one of the main things that we

16:35

like to harp on a lot on this podcast is

16:37

that U.S or Canada as well even more so

16:40

is just incredibly wild and that the

16:42

animals are no joke did you have any

16:43

animal encounters yeah we had animal

16:45

encounters I saw a Grizzly it was not uh

16:49

you know a very intense Grizzly

16:50

encounter we kind of turned to Ben in

16:52

the river and I saw what looked like a

16:54

massive Boulder and I was like whoa

16:56

that's a big boulder which is kind of

16:57

weird because there were a lot of rocks

16:59

in the salon and then the boulder turned

17:01

around and looked at me and it was a

17:03

massive bull Grizzly with like this huge

17:05

head that just kind of got up and

17:06

lumbered away and we're like oh okay

17:08

let's cross to the other side of the

17:10

room don't want to deal with that right

17:12

yeah when I was working as an equipment

17:14

manager we actually had a group who got

17:16

a Grizzly got a little territorial with

17:18

their space took over their campsite and

17:21

they managed to get their like sat phone

17:23

and first aid kit

17:25

um and ran away but that's all they

17:26

could grab and so they were stuck out

17:29

there and needed to get flown out and it

17:31

was my job to go through their equipment

17:32

once they drove the bear away and we got

17:36

back and like these tents were in shreds

17:38

these poles from the tent were snapped

17:40

but I remember the most impressive thing

17:42

I saw was the literal bare barrels which

17:45

are built to be smell prevention hard to

17:48

open for frankly mostly black bears

17:50

because what the grizzly did is it

17:52

looked like paper mache it's just like

17:54

oh my gosh four long claw marks they

17:57

were pulled up like it looked like

18:03

it was crazy that's one thing that makes

18:06

me quite grateful for uh for where I am

18:08

so I'm in Thailand and the worst I've

18:09

had is I had a monkey that got into my

18:11

cooler and ate all my cookies are no

18:12

joke though they're not they're mean

18:14

like mean little creatures yeah oh yeah

18:17

they're they're smart and they'll get

18:19

into stuff I did some traveling and you

18:21

know like the Caribbean and Puerto Rico

18:22

and everything and then you left your

18:24

phones and watches and stuff too they

18:26

like the shiny stuff that's terrible but

18:29

I mean like just being in northern

18:30

Minnesota you see so many things there

18:32

was recently so there's been a lot of

18:33

coyote sightings even just in my

18:35

neighborhood that there is also recently

18:37

a couple links and even a cougar

18:39

sightings in northern Minnesota cougars

18:41

are also no joke they're Territorial and

18:44

scary yeah in the Arctic really once we

18:46

had the most run-ins with were musk ox

18:48

which are just big and they have herds

18:51

with the young calves they're protecting

18:52

in the summer so they just get really

18:54

Territorial and aggressive so you just

18:56

want to steer clear them but they'll

18:58

give you plenty of warnings before they

18:59

charge you so you just try to avoid them

19:01

if you can that's the best yeah

19:10

but let's talk about logistics so going

19:12

on an adventure like this what do you

19:13

have to do to prepare for it because

19:15

that you know 450 miles that is no easy

19:17

task so what do you do to prepare and

19:19

plan for a journey like this well the

19:22

charts planning you know permitting

19:24

Insurance even like getting you know

19:28

everyone's names on permits that they

19:29

got on the trip in the middle of the

19:31

year they do all that leading up and

19:33

take on a lot of that responsibility

19:35

because the Departments are expensive

19:36

the logistics are expensive you know you

19:39

have to coordinate flights and find

19:40

people who are willing to do them and at

19:42

that time of the year when you have the

19:44

tickets and from it and the more remote

19:45

the area the more challenging that can

19:47

get and then you have the counselors

19:48

themselves who are planning routes uh

19:50

talking to people in Camp uh trying to

19:52

plan like meals they plan meals with

19:55

their group a lot but just like

19:56

quantities and coordination on just like

19:58

how much stuff you're going to need on a

20:01

you know trip of that scale but a lot of

20:04

the planning is actually done you know

20:05

when when the kids get to camp and start

20:08

working together on the you know final

20:10

decisions on on the trip the planning

20:13

and the Night by nights that you plan

20:15

especially for canoeing you gotta plan

20:17

the Night by nights and you plan the

20:19

meals and if you're a canoer we took all

20:21

that food

20:22

with it and carried it the entire time

20:25

so we had

20:26

120-140 I mean some of them got even

20:29

heavier but these Food Packs are massive

20:31

we were carrying those the whole time

20:33

PVC canoes we actually picked up our

20:36

canoes when we flew into Yellowstone and

20:38

had to build them on site and I was

20:40

constantly doing uh leveling like

20:42

changes uh which was sort of a nightmare

20:44

but I learned a lot about it uh other

20:47

than that uh we did you know some white

20:50

water prep you got to do some white

20:51

water safety courses and you know just

20:54

some some training to get the muscles

20:56

going again before you go on a trip like

20:58

that yeah you know safety things we had

21:00

to do bear training with bear spray you

21:02

know one of the things that stood out to

21:03

me in the book were the descriptions the

21:05

descriptions of the scenery so how did

21:06

you manage to to sort of capture that in

21:10

uh the written form right so how did you

21:12

manage to bring that scene into the

21:14

novel because I assumed that would have

21:16

been all you since you were the one that

21:17

was there right your dad wasn't there

21:18

with you when you you know what's funny

21:20

enough uh not at all

21:24

you know went to school for English so I

21:26

did some editing and read over some

21:28

sections once you presented them to me

21:29

but really he was the one who just sat

21:32

and had to produce in a vacuum you know

21:34

1500 words every day

21:37

that was cohesive that worked and the

21:40

environment he reproduced incredibly

21:42

well just based on the conversations

21:45

reading like journals about the area and

21:48

other people's accounts

21:50

um pictures just talking about things

21:52

and like he would give me sections and

21:53

I'd say like oh that doesn't feel right

21:55

it doesn't seem right or I I never saw

21:57

anything that looked like that just you

21:59

know stuff like that but a lot of it was

22:01

like him yeah sitting in a vacuum and

22:03

saying a story that spoke to you know

22:07

not only the environment but the

22:08

characters and then kind of giving it to

22:10

me and saying like hey does this work

22:11

for you does this feel authentic does

22:12

this feel like you know what you guys

22:15

experienced when you were on Trails

22:17

right I feel like close with all the

22:19

people who I was I was there with and

22:21

the relationships that formed and the

22:23

kind of like tension and bond of like

22:25

people on trail that that really factors

22:27

in earlier on in the book and

22:30

survival is such a very Human Experience

22:32

right it's such a very human stories

22:34

that must be like an unbreakable Bond

22:36

well you know it's funny I think to a

22:38

certain extent when we're talking about

22:39

like Wilderness survival people think

22:41

it's about these like stories right like

22:43

what survival looks like what did you do

22:46

to survive you look at things like you

22:48

know the Revenant

22:49

um people think like what did you do to

22:51

survive a bear attack but the reality is

22:53

like

22:54

survival is about routine living in the

22:57

Outbacks about routine you know existing

23:00

in harsh environments it's about routine

23:01

it's about like waking up

23:03

doing a lot of the same things to

23:05

protect yourself to prepare yourself to

23:07

move from point A to point B to eat the

23:10

right meals right calories and set

23:13

yourself up for success in the future

23:14

and also find time to take a break and

23:17

go fishing and not hate where you are I

23:20

mean like that's at a certain point in

23:22

the book

23:23

you know survival is not like what do

23:26

you do if someone's injured or what do

23:28

you do if you can't reach civilization

23:30

it's like how do you get out how do you

23:32

yeah go to sleep at night and find

23:35

warmth how do you wake up in the morning

23:36

and keep going there's a lot of things

23:38

that just become wrote but there's

23:40

something beautiful in that I think you

23:42

know a lot of us maybe aren't brave

23:44

enough or don't have the time or

23:45

resources or whatever to go out on a

23:47

trip like this but how can we connect to

23:49

the outdoors anyway how can we get out

23:51

into nature start it simple I Garden I

23:54

got in a ton I love gardening I have a

23:57

house in West Saint Paul so I do live in

24:00

like the city I live in pretty much I

24:03

live across the bridge from downtown

24:04

Minnesota is a lovely place I'm on the

24:07

river and we're really lucky to have

24:08

like the access to the outdoors and the

24:10

growth we do even in an urban

24:12

environment but you can start as simple

24:14

as I've heard buckets I've had really

24:16

good success with herb buckets so my mom

24:18

does Northern Minnesota too which is a

24:20

super harsh environment yeah potting

24:22

soil which you don't even need but it's

24:25

a great starter it's pretty cheap just

24:27

find like a good source of soil if it's

24:29

it's like in the woods or near you or

24:32

you know you have access to a compost

24:34

and Herb plants can be trimmed and cut

24:38

and propagated from other places bought

24:40

for cheap and really easy to take care

24:43

of just move and find the Sun and it's

24:45

so rewarding to grow something for

24:47

yourself and learn about them and how

24:49

they grow and how they Thrive I love

24:51

gardening and I love planting and learn

24:54

about the things around in your area not

24:57

just the plants but the animals what's

24:59

scurrying around you know that's stuff's

25:02

so fun one thing people kind of forget

25:03

is that at least in North America we're

25:05

never really that far from nature not

25:08

particularly not in North America

25:09

frankly just sit long enough and watch

25:12

like Ravens they're very interesting and

25:14

they do very silly things uh you know

25:17

there's a lot of like Songbird species

25:18

and pretty birds and everything but

25:19

there's a lot of like predatory bird

25:21

species that are in like the Farmland

25:23

scenarios yeah you don't have to go too

25:25

far to take a look at but I mean you

25:27

know every country in the world is

25:28

something like interesting going on in

25:30

the backyard even New York the squirrel

25:32

they have interesting things they're

25:34

doing yeah I mean like this is something

25:36

I also want to tell other people but I'm

25:38

totally spoiled in Minnesota land of 10

25:40

000 Lakes getting your water uh water is

25:43

like really beautiful and

25:47

um just being on like natural water

25:50

sources and like being around creatures

25:52

that live in the water I think is very

25:54

cathartic and beautiful yeah um there's

25:56

a lot of like just muskrats and beavers

25:58

and everything that you can even see

25:59

just like in the cities here which is

26:01

really cool but uh I like boating I

26:04

still love boating paddling canoeing so

26:06

I just think like getting a chance to be

26:08

on a boat and to be close to water is

26:10

like very

26:11

good for the soul and a good way to

26:13

experience Adventure so my family has

26:16

had a cabin in northern Minnesota since

26:18

way before I was born and that's like a

26:22

Portage out of the Boundary Waters which

26:23

is one of the you know biggest canoe

26:26

areas in the world

26:29

um and shares a border with Canada and

26:31

once you cross into Canada you have the

26:33

quetico Wilderness which is even bigger

26:35

so I got to experience canoeing in The

26:37

Boundary Waters a lot growing up and

26:38

without even doing that I can I can go

26:41

and lay cop without even having to buy a

26:43

permit because we have you know old

26:45

aluminum canoes and new Kevlar canoes

26:47

and all that fun stuff

26:49

um so I love just being able to canoe

26:51

and it has a lot of freedom about it too

26:53

you can pull up anywhere you can be

26:54

everywhere it's not a motorboat it's

26:57

quiet you don't disturb things so like

26:59

you know beavers notice you at the last

27:02

second then they get mad at you and they

27:03

try to laugh at you and it's something

27:06

really satisfying about that in

27:08

particular one of the main themes that

27:10

runs throughout the book is the idea of

27:12

being a storiest so what does that mean

27:14

and would you consider yourself to be a

27:16

storiest well I mean I I really do love

27:18

that concept because uh so poignant to

27:22

uh adventuring you know camping and

27:23

being in the outdoors and like kind of

27:25

how we share ourselves with other people

27:28

we take trips with you kind of just like

27:30

stuck in a vacuum and you're either

27:31

having conversations or debates or

27:33

you're sharing stories about your life

27:35

and I think that's where it started with

27:38

like you know how do you you know share

27:41

yourself with another person especially

27:42

on trail and you kind of are left with

27:46

this you know idea of these vignettes

27:48

that all strung together uh create our

27:52

lives and how we respond to things and

27:55

how we perceive the world and how we

27:57

move forward and make decisions but I

27:59

think that also you know I I love

28:02

telling stories but my dad's better at

28:04

it and growing up uh that was a way that

28:07

he shared himself uh with me and how we

28:09

got to know each other is that he had

28:12

always gone on these Adventures when he

28:13

was a kid he was like a nightclub

28:15

manager in Vegas he like rode uh the

28:18

rails and like rode like Freights to

28:20

different places in the U.S and and he

28:23

like you know cut and planted trees in

28:25

northern Minnesota and like other places

28:27

in the American like

28:29

Southwest

28:31

um yeah he's he's ripe with stories

28:34

um you know he would always kind of like

28:36

exaggerate them repeat them over and

28:39

over so they took on a life of their own

28:41

and when we were sitting around the

28:42

campfire or taking a sauna or taking a

28:44

canoe together I'd say things oh tell me

28:46

the story about uh the angel in Nebraska

28:49

or you know tell me the story about uh

28:53

the bouncer in Vegas who could knock a

28:54

guy out in one punch uh you know at a

28:57

certain point I realized that I was in

28:59

high school and I was still like having

29:00

friends over you know to dinner and

29:03

saying like oh Dad you have to tell him

29:05

this story and it was like kind of how I

29:08

learned how to share my dad with others

29:10

too and you know that became a big part

29:11

of our relationship and I think how he

29:14

perceives people maybe that's really

29:17

interesting you know of course because

29:18

in the book the characters right Lee and

29:20

Jake they don't have or they have a very

29:22

complicated relationship right and that

29:25

seems very different from the

29:26

relationship between you and your own

29:27

father well see this is come up like a

29:29

couple times which I find so funny and

29:30

like the father-daughter collaboration

29:32

book right you have like one of the most

29:33

weird and toxic like relationships

29:36

like a father and an only daughter

29:39

but you know in actuality that's like

29:42

based on a man my dad knew in Nebraska

29:45

who was like friends with my grandma and

29:47

he was okay

29:49

um oh here at Eco Anarchist who like

29:51

made a bunker along the Platte River in

29:53

Nebraska and then when my dad was

29:55

invited over to dinner he had like these

29:57

sculling oars

29:59

um from Harvard hanging over the mantle

30:01

you know for rowing and he was like what

30:04

kind of person is this and like what

30:06

happens in your life that you like all

30:08

of a sudden going from like being a

30:09

yuppie because you had to have been a

30:11

yuppie at some point in your life to

30:12

roll from yeah

30:15

to being like an ego Anarchist but I

30:18

mean I think in a lot of ways that story

30:20

and like almost like Lee's upbringing

30:21

was kind of more based than like him and

30:23

his upbringing and somewhat his like Mom

30:25

his family's from Nebraska and are all

30:27

farm people and but we're also you know

30:30

like minnesotans and outdoorsy people

30:32

it's it's all kind of a mishmash you

30:34

know nothing's ever too specific so if

30:36

you could give some advice to new

30:38

adventurers what would you like to tell

30:39

them start simple yeah really like don't

30:43

second guess how long you want to go out

30:45

an adventure can be as easy as like

30:48

getting in your car and like sleeping in

30:50

your car one night in an area that you

30:52

want to have a fire in or you know like

30:56

diving in head first and getting a guide

30:59

online and going somewhere and really

31:02

just doing it to it and learning a new

31:04

skill

31:05

um but I think that you should not just

31:07

adventure to try to overcome something

31:11

or like do it to the most extreme of the

31:13

extreme but like don't go on an

31:15

adventure if you can't find Space to

31:17

also just enjoy it and be at peace and

31:19

like appreciate what's around you that's

31:21

why I liked kind of doing Whitewater

31:22

canoeing versus whitewater rafting

31:24

because I feel like walking rafting put

31:26

so much pressure on this like adrenaline

31:28

aspect of white water like if I focused

31:30

on every moment right yeah like white

31:32

water canoeing is more but like stopping

31:34

scouting it thinking about your best

31:36

route using like the skills you've

31:38

learned to overcome it to keep going on

31:41

your journey in this incredible area so

31:44

yeah like start simple don't push

31:46

yourself too far bring some books pick

31:49

one meal that you want to do for at

31:51

least a couple hours right and just

31:53

really get into like get do a good

31:55

camping meal I don't know I think yeah

31:57

start simple do you have a favorite

31:58

camping meal when I'm private camping I

32:01

think going and buying like a cheap cut

32:04

of steak like Frozen and then you let it

32:06

thaw in your pack over day and it's your

32:08

like first night on trail dinner but you

32:10

could only do that if you make sure you

32:12

do a long first day it has to be a

32:14

reward like a shirt first day and then

32:16

reward yourself for the steak like come

32:18

on you gotta yeah right cover Smiles if

32:22

you're gonna get a sting

32:24

um right other than that I mean like

32:25

pastas always good we always did uh

32:29

quinoa with pesto on trail do like a

32:32

packet of pesto Kraft parmesan keeps

32:34

really well just the kind of dehydrated

32:36

cotton and it melts really well so use

32:38

like that like a packet of like Alfredo

32:40

mix some oil pesto and Parmesan and it

32:44

was just like so satisfying

32:46

oh cheesy I think that was our favorite

32:49

so where can listeners find a copy of

32:52

your book uh pretty much wherever you

32:54

buy books uh certainly like online uh I

32:58

always like wrapping indiebooks.org

33:01

um and I'm pretty sure they ship

33:02

internationally it is the Barons The

33:05

Story of Love and Death in the Canadian

33:06

Arctic written by Kurt Johnson and Ellie

33:09

Johnson you can uh reach my dad at his

33:12

website

33:14

kurtjohnsonbooks.com I'm on Instagram at

33:17

lej418 and I'm really excited for you

33:21

guys to read about this incredible area

33:23

of the world that so few people even get

33:25

to witness yeah so we will put links to

33:28

all of that in our show notes as well I

33:30

really appreciate being here uh thank

33:33

you so much for having me and yeah get

33:35

out and travel get in a boat and see the

33:38

water get in a car and see the roads uh

33:42

talk to people ask them about what it's

33:44

like to live where they are even a town

33:46

away can be insanely different and you

33:49

can learn something really interesting

33:50

totally well Ellie Johnson thank you so

33:52

much for coming on the show today

34:04

and we are back James of course we're

34:06

going to be putting links to all of that

34:09

in the show notes on

34:10

attemptedventure.com so James I'll ask

34:13

you this when you were 17 what was the

34:15

most adventurous thing you had done

34:17

foreign

34:19

you know probably similar to you uh

34:23

all right that's been some time at Boy

34:25

Scout camps it's like that time that you

34:27

and I went camping on the beach we did

34:30

go camping on the beach I was probably

34:32

around 17. yeah we went camping in the

34:35

woods at the State Park

34:38

we tried to sleep in the back of a truck

34:40

yeah because we're well we were just too

34:42

lazy to set up the tent we had a tint to

34:45

be fair we we did have a tent but it was

34:47

also like 110 degrees at night and we

34:50

were just like why are we doing this and

34:52

our friend was supposed to come and

34:54

didn't yeah

34:56

um but anyway so I was not doing very

34:59

adventurous things when I was that age

35:02

you know that's it's interesting because

35:04

my my dad

35:06

did several long canoe trips up to the

35:09

Boundary Waters and he was like 15 16 17

35:12

when he did those and so I'm just like

35:15

man when I was 17 I didn't do anything

35:17

yeah I mean to be fair Elliott 17 has

35:22

done more than I've done now I mean oh

35:25

yeah 100 she's way more

35:29

yeah I haven't done anything close not

35:32

even close yeah

35:34

I mean that's that's inspiration right

35:36

there of course in the book things go

35:38

wrong in real life you uh hope that

35:40

doesn't happen but what I did like so

35:42

much about the book is just the way that

35:44

it yeah it did it made you feel

35:47

you know that that isolation of being in

35:50

this desolate

35:51

you know uh beautiful rugged landscape

35:56

and I've always found that type of

36:00

like far Northern Canada like Iceland

36:03

Norway that kind of like cold rough

36:06

landscape really beautiful like the

36:09

Skyrim landscape you know

36:12

yeah no it's very true thank you again

36:15

La so much for coming on the show it was

36:18

a blast well James with that being said

36:20

it is time now for our favorite segment

36:22

adventures in the news this week sir

36:24

it's your turn so what have you got to

36:26

share with us today this one comes from

36:29

one of my favorite websites

36:31

outsideonline.com this one is not funny

36:35

more of a public service announcement I

36:38

guess okay

36:40

um Yellowstone employees found a human

36:42

foot floating in a hot spring so in most

36:46

places Hot Springs are nice and you go

36:50

sit in them and they're very pleasant

36:52

pleasant experiences

36:54

not so in Yellowstone National Park no

36:59

people try all the time

37:01

people try all of the time the hot

37:04

springs in Yellowstone they're very

37:07

pretty they're beautiful the water is

37:08

crystal clear and it's steamy and it

37:10

looks real like it'd be really nice to

37:11

just go you know sit on the edge and

37:13

take a dip this hot spring the abyss

37:15

pool has temperatures ranging from 140

37:19

degrees Fahrenheit to 198 degrees

37:21

Fahrenheit I mean that's deadly that's

37:24

not something that you can survive a dip

37:26

in so in 2016 a man named Colin

37:31

Nathaniel Scott died in one of the hot

37:34

springs after leaving a boardwalk

37:36

Rescuers were unable to retrieve his

37:38

body

37:39

and the water is not only scalding hot

37:43

in some cases very close to Boiling the

37:46

water is also very very alkaline so

37:49

basically if you were the Unlucky person

37:52

to fall into one or purposely jump into

37:54

one like some people do you are going to

37:56

die if you do die and they can't get

37:58

your body Gap the water will dissolve

38:00

your body yeah it's

38:02

scary so don't

38:05

don't get in there there's a reason

38:07

there are boardwalks with signs are

38:09

aware that says don't

38:10

I think that people think the signs are

38:12

there like oh yeah they don't want

38:14

tourists swimming in here but like No

38:15

One's Gonna care if I get in it's not

38:16

about that it's it's for your safety yes

38:19

so you don't die rules are there for a

38:21

reason you know the rules especially

38:23

when it comes to Nature especially when

38:25

it comes to I don't know yeah the

38:28

natural world things about animals or

38:31

geography right like don't mess with

38:34

that the world you know planet Earth is

38:36

a lot stronger than we are

38:38

foreign

38:40

anyway so that's my news don't get in

38:43

the hot springs no that's really good I

38:45

I would say just follow the signs if

38:46

you're at a national park the signs

38:48

there are I mean a lot of times yeah

38:50

they are there to protect the

38:51

environment but that's also really

38:54

important and I think it's worth noting

38:56

that park rangers are federal officers

38:59

like they have their own like they can

39:00

arrest you as well yeah

39:03

on Hulu there is a show called wild

39:06

crime

39:07

it is about

39:09

crimes that occur on public land and I

39:12

bet you don't know that

39:14

um the National Park Service has a like

39:16

dedicated Federal detective branch of

39:19

their own yeah and what I've heard is

39:21

they're really good like there's two

39:22

there's two government departments that

39:24

you don't want to mess with and

39:25

hilariously it's the parks department in

39:27

the post office well

39:29

it's like people every you'll see these

39:31

people that like spray paint the rocks

39:34

in different parks and stuff like that

39:35

they always find them and then they feed

39:38

you to the Grizzlies

39:42

but yeah just just for all the signs

39:44

everybody that's all I get

39:47

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39:49

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40:07

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40:09

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40:12

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40:25

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40:31

[Music]