0:00

The. Dune series is one of

0:02

the most complex and interesting

0:04

sagas ever to be written

0:06

in the genre of science

0:08

fiction. The themes they explore

0:10

interweave with religious and philosophical

0:12

ideas, leaving you wondering who's

0:14

the hero? who's the anti

0:17

hero with certain clear lines

0:19

of distinction and some that

0:21

are very blurred. So I'm

0:23

diving into day with Mark

0:25

Gaffney to go over all

0:27

of the intricacies of this

0:29

film and. Spoiler Alert! We're going

0:31

to talk about the whole series, so

0:33

if you don't want know anything about

0:35

Dune, maybe this episode is and for

0:37

you. But if you've watched Dune One

0:39

in Dune Two, and you really want

0:42

to understand the complex nuances like I

0:44

did when I got out of the

0:46

theater, definitely check this out. But.

0:48

Before we get started, a word from our

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9:06

Mark. My brother. Here

9:08

we are again. Oh.

9:10

My. God. Am

9:13

we're here? We're here to

9:15

try and unpack. Dune

9:17

and Dune Two, which is just

9:20

now out in theaters and. I.

9:22

Finish this movie and I was

9:25

desperate to talk to you about

9:27

it because the three times the

9:29

so complex and internally the on

9:31

as he say house how culture

9:34

speaks through these stories and through

9:36

these myths and archetypes. Rain and

9:38

illuminates different things that are moving

9:41

and even though this the original

9:43

books were written in the sixties,

9:45

how prescient they are actually right

9:47

now to our time in what

9:50

we're currently experiencing. Totally

9:52

totally that are completely

9:54

prescient an an. Effort.

9:57

It's so exciting to be in this conversation

9:59

because. We're. Talking about

10:01

June and even before we get

10:04

into it together was just notice.

10:07

This. Went insane and culture.

10:10

I mean there are about twenty

10:13

five. Jewel. Box So he

10:15

writes like six of them. Till

10:17

he dies. right? So so

10:19

we're and mortgage covering today, weren't gonna part

10:21

two of the first book dune which is

10:24

which is the best one. It's.

10:26

Considered by lots of people. Like

10:28

the number one science fiction story

10:30

of all time. like a mess.

10:33

The side fi universe. it's like

10:35

this this god. And

10:37

then. He succeeds.

10:40

In. Kind of transmitting it to his

10:42

son. Brian Mckenna hangs out with

10:44

what's his name? Kevin Anderson who

10:46

was the dude. Who who

10:49

did lots of Star Wars? and they

10:51

kind of they do a whole like

10:53

bunch the dunes. And. Then generosity

10:55

tries to make a dude it's kind

10:57

of to enormous. He can't quite says

11:00

Mr. Colors a movie made about his

11:02

attempt to make a dune I saw

11:04

David Lynch tries to make when I

11:06

doesn't quite work and he turns down

11:08

Return of the Jet I you know

11:10

to try and make do but it's

11:12

just said there's something about dune. With.

11:15

Which is magic. Which.

11:18

Is important. And.

11:21

Is it in? as we we've said

11:23

before brother, It's a text of culture

11:26

so. In some sense, We're

11:28

not coming here to say. Okay,

11:30

What was Frank Herbert thinking? That's.

11:33

Not I'm in blessings to Frank who

11:35

was the super interesting guy doing lots

11:38

of psychedelic in the mid sixties so

11:40

that you know and I would say

11:42

most of the dune was written on

11:44

psychedelics. Right

11:46

now that he was like he was

11:48

in and out he was always drink

11:51

of he was drinking the water of

11:53

life He was drinking my aim same

11:55

the water of life and seeing visions

11:57

and. And haven't arrived here?

12:00

Do and Spice and Milan's and kind

12:02

of a big time action by the

12:04

way. Just interesting is it's a great

12:06

place to start. Menu know what will

12:08

ease our way in. The

12:10

word Water of Life is of

12:13

course a lineage of Solomon.

12:15

Word my him same the Water

12:17

of Life. And.

12:19

They take that term which is

12:21

at temple term and they bring

12:23

it together with. There was

12:26

a worm. Called. A

12:28

C Love Zone ch I L

12:30

A Z O N se le

12:32

Zone out of which a blue

12:35

dye was extracted. And

12:37

if you ever see a Hebrew Prayer

12:39

shawl, I pull one of them on

12:41

every day I Hebrew Islam Prayer shawl,

12:43

you see that one of the strands.

12:46

Is. Deep blue. And. It's

12:48

the exact same color of

12:50

blue. as the

12:53

water of life in

12:55

do. And. What

12:57

he's trying to do. Frank Herbert

12:59

before he's trying to merge together.

13:01

You know, other see lots of

13:04

Islam. Of a C

13:06

and our you know new A D

13:08

been mad. The fried odds are lots

13:10

and lots you know Leon I'll grab

13:12

regular this the speaker of unseen tongue

13:14

in all these titles you know for

13:17

Paul, a treaty switch is bring in

13:19

that together. But. Then he's

13:21

also got things like this:

13:24

blue. Die

13:26

from the worm which is.

13:29

The. Sapphire right? Which actually opens your

13:32

eyes. But then I mean the major

13:34

one in this is just just as

13:36

a way of saying hi. The

13:39

major one as. We.

13:42

Sat address. At.

13:45

That sunny term wranglers

13:47

the been nice gesture

13:49

at are. Planning.

13:52

For. Nine you the generations,

13:55

Of genetic engineering. To

13:58

generate. This need

14:00

see and government's. right?

14:02

This unimaginable figure whose

14:05

the quit Sas address.

14:09

Know. Quits Us sadrists. When I first set of

14:11

I said. Comes

14:14

from. A lineage

14:17

term which is pizza had their

14:19

ass which is the jumping of

14:21

the way. Which. Is

14:23

the capacity of a master. To.

14:26

Jump through time. While.

14:29

Side Wow Rights of the Space

14:31

skilled. Unite! The

14:33

Galaxy. Through. Space

14:35

Milan's. Which. Is

14:37

that could tourists the spice

14:39

of the temple which the

14:41

essence and the holy of

14:43

holies the space that actually

14:45

allows us to create radical

14:48

union with reality. And

14:51

said there's the space in

14:53

the space creates generates this

14:55

master. Who. Can actually

14:58

get the needs time even deeper than the

15:00

space Guilt and know we have Derek your

15:02

who's a dune guys. The Derek knows that

15:04

The Space Guilt. They all

15:07

have some ability because they're They're

15:09

spiced. To actually

15:11

transcend time but not like

15:13

the queen such address which

15:16

is the one who masters

15:18

the capacity to trance and

15:20

time. I. This

15:22

figure is the one who's ended

15:24

the trance of time and who

15:27

can actually experience all times together.

15:30

A Masters the one in which past.

15:33

Present. And. Future.

15:36

Live. As one. There's

15:38

no distinction between them and he

15:40

can move between them. And

15:43

we've got this: the set of

15:45

terms that aren't play that are

15:47

kind of Wild Rider and. Part

15:50

of this the place through

15:52

as you think about time

15:54

is prophecy and the nature

15:56

of prophecy being pointing a

15:59

possible time. In in a

16:01

way and even this is how

16:03

Paul as he's starting to develop

16:05

in his powers as he's becoming

16:07

a master as is becoming Qui

16:09

Sauce had our he's He's learning

16:11

how he's learning how to see

16:14

into the future and look at

16:16

these possible timelines. And then there's

16:18

one powerful point in doing to

16:20

way says there's one I see

16:22

one way through. Like finally where

16:24

everything was apocalypse. Basically he sees

16:26

like ah there is that There

16:29

is a way. Through any driveway

16:31

gets the clarity to see the way

16:33

going to. Die. In

16:35

an era great. Know. That's

16:37

great to eat. you actually. Said.

16:40

It's. So great to see a

16:42

rather right Yeah, it's nice. I

16:45

guess he said sued saints. right?

16:47

So each one is like that. While it's

16:49

hot to like each one of them, one

16:51

is is your prophecy on the table early

16:54

on. So yes let's get it's this is

16:56

about prophecy for sure. Edgy through a particular

16:58

thing on the table which is he sees

17:00

one way through some. I did although bracket

17:02

for a second army go right into that.

17:04

go back and right to someone. it's it's

17:06

throw one of the thing in the temple

17:08

just you can see it. Because you

17:10

just said Paul. Supporters. Of

17:12

course poetry days we know the son

17:14

of Duke Leto a trade is who

17:16

have been the Great House for generations

17:19

and. Paul. As of course a

17:21

christian name. So. He doesn't

17:23

use Christ use Paul says.christianity

17:25

deepen their he's got the

17:28

mother and the sun. I

17:30

got a Mother Mary. And. Jesus have

17:33

a mother in the sun then

17:35

is got lad deem. I.

17:37

Am Leon out graeme right Is that

17:39

these the deep Islamic no sense And

17:41

then he has Jessica and the been

17:43

a gesture at this mistook was a

17:45

side of women kind of planning and

17:48

I was she says and I'm the

17:50

second movie see says to rule on

17:52

who's the daughter of the emperor see

17:54

if who says we have to hope

17:56

and she says been a jesuit don't

17:58

hope they plan. right? So

18:00

they're to the been ages. A

18:03

Jesuit is Jessie. Solomon's.

18:05

Father is David. David

18:08

father is Jessie, Davide been

18:10

shy and Jesse is the

18:13

Messianic prophetic. When. He is. Right?

18:16

And so we got. yes, that's

18:18

so wet. Wet Harbor does like,

18:20

you know, as is kind of

18:22

stoned out on Psychedelic someplace in

18:24

San Francisco and Nineteen Sixty Three in

18:26

his apartment right late at night,

18:28

right? He's bringing together these kind

18:30

of. You. Know Christianity.

18:33

And it's esoteric is bringing together

18:36

this deep Islamic sense. They take

18:38

Jihad out. Nikolic Crusade at is

18:40

bringing together this Hebrew wisdom tradition

18:42

and is also bringing together the

18:45

From in. Our kind

18:47

of Zen sunni and the books that

18:49

the zen sunni combination to have guts

18:51

us all happening. And it's all about

18:53

prophecy. So. That's like it's

18:55

like big and so let me be go

18:57

to the second thing you said. unless maybe

19:00

start and talk about that. I would love

19:02

to hear how you're feeling at the let

19:04

me just go into that. In other words,

19:07

Prophecies. One you'd seem surprised

19:09

to see. Leadership.

19:12

Messiahs, I. Mean that's

19:14

what's at play on. We gotta talk about

19:16

all of it but there's one moment the

19:18

you just use picked out with when I

19:20

think as is absolutely critical moment. And.

19:23

It's almost like a Santa Smart Santos moment in

19:25

The Adventures. right? Where where?

19:28

Where you know? Doctors in a center

19:30

says. I'm actually

19:32

six the world. No.

19:34

One's willing to do the hard work.

19:36

I've got a plan to fix the

19:38

world. The Adventures of Them, Doctor Strange

19:40

and Tony Stark's Talk This at All

19:43

possible features are going to work. There's.

19:45

Only one that's gonna work. At

19:47

so he's got that same thing here, he

19:50

says. He. Says to his

19:52

mother in the second movie he

19:54

says you know after he's drunk.

19:56

The. The. Water of

19:59

Life. The. I

20:01

see all of these paths in which

20:03

are enemies Best us. But.

20:05

There's one narrow path.

20:09

right? Where. We.

20:12

Can be triumphant in by we he means

20:14

I just wanna say. The Good:

20:17

Because. The House of a Trade is. They

20:20

represent the heart. They represent

20:23

love. They represent honor. right?

20:25

And it's highest form value that sounds.

20:28

That's. Right that they're they're heroes and what

20:30

will come back to that? the been a

20:32

Jesuit, confident that. They're. They're

20:35

they're they're unclear who they are are in

20:37

one of the lay the last thing the

20:39

Frank Herbert road and he writes in his

20:42

last thing a as the store over the

20:44

been a Jesuit being destroyed the been ages

20:46

are talking to a particular figure who says

20:48

to then you guys took love that of

20:50

your equation. You guys, you

20:52

guys.love! was too dangerous and he has

20:54

her. Go back and listen

20:57

to music and trying to access

20:59

what it would mean to fall

21:01

in love because the been a

21:03

cesarean in that later you know

21:05

novel are being charts. You're challenged

21:07

by the honored as the honored

21:09

meet friends who kind of trying

21:11

to destroy them and the disfigure

21:13

says to them you guys forgot

21:15

love for bridges are completely manipulating

21:17

the cosmos. Yeah, And

21:19

see Jessica's have been age as your it.

21:22

But. She falls on us. And.

21:25

Secede seizures the plan. And.

21:28

Doesn't have a. A. Daughter. She's.

21:31

Was have a daughter. Who. Is

21:33

then gonna give birth. Her son

21:35

to the. Costs. Are to address

21:37

and such as a Sex she falls in love.

21:41

So here's our question minister. a question

21:43

on the table. Paul.

21:46

Does everything because he

21:48

has this. Vision.

21:53

And he's doing something that's

21:55

very dangerous. And. That's

21:58

very crazy. That's what's so

22:00

crazy. the movie Tv being

22:02

a utopian. He's. Saying

22:04

I've got this huge vision.

22:07

I see all the stuff that can go

22:09

wrong. I've got

22:12

no choice. I'm gonna

22:14

unleash a jihad. Remember

22:17

the last line in the movie says send

22:19

Them to Paradise your brain is talking

22:21

about right? that the great Houses as the

22:23

Freeman spread out over the Galaxy. Killed

22:26

millions of people, Ninety

22:29

planets are destroyed, right? I'm and

22:31

it's like a disaster So, but

22:34

Paul sees. Santos.

22:36

There's this Poll Santos moment. Impulsive,

22:39

good guy. And. Sanders

22:41

is a conflict secure acts like

22:44

rights I policies. Wow.

22:47

The. Only way I can heal the galaxy.

22:50

Is. To make this insane said a

22:52

moves cause all other moves will

22:54

destroy humanity was Tony Hawkes. It.

22:57

So it's this. And. Frank

22:59

Herbert's kind of ceiling. It's mid

23:01

sixties. And. He's like. Wow.

23:07

What? Are we gonna do? And.

23:09

He he cannot dismisses existent ready

23:11

says. No computers. Or

23:14

it is only meant that know, computers. Are.

23:17

You know, computers have been outlawed. No.

23:19

Democracy. It's.

23:21

A feudal system. Know.

23:23

Free Markets. There's

23:25

an emperor medieval feudal

23:27

system that rains. The.

23:31

Emperor gives fiefdoms and takes them

23:33

away. Or hey, take a

23:35

rocket from the are covenants. let's give

23:37

us at work Do blade over treaties.

23:40

And. The space

23:43

skilled means. And.

23:47

In. Steps. Paul.

23:51

And. Says oh the universe is going to be

23:54

destroyed. right? Darkness.

23:58

Saddam, the force the back. Ember.

24:00

The. Her Cohen's. Are

24:02

going to roll. Ages Okay

24:05

so I be an actress or own her

24:07

Conan. Because. He realizes after drinking

24:09

the blue water that he's also are conan. Crazy.

24:12

Moment. And he

24:15

goes to unleash this insane

24:17

unfolding and cosmos. For.

24:20

The ultimate sake of the greater good. So.

24:23

There's a big. Massive!

24:26

When you watch the movie, you're both

24:28

blown away. And

24:30

you're also like in an immense pain.

24:33

Near. As did not go well. Yeah.

24:37

To. Her added that field the how did

24:39

you, how did you work with us

24:41

Why was complicated Because they are we

24:43

we've like in culture. I think we

24:45

like movies that are very clear. There's

24:47

a clear good guy and then there's

24:49

a clear bad guy in the good

24:52

guy is forced and compelled in action

24:54

because he has no other choice and

24:56

he's clearly good. And then every action

24:58

that he takes from there or see

25:00

takes from there's clearly good in this.

25:02

This plays with this understanding of morality

25:04

and what is moral in the short

25:06

term. What is moral throughout. The span

25:08

of history and eternity itself.

25:11

Sleep. Last. Night.

25:15

A minutes and read a site and the would

25:17

was I mean in some sense you took us.

25:21

Is. One of the many reasons I love

25:23

you brother he took his actually to

25:25

the hardest part of a movie I'd

25:27

straight on in which is he or

25:29

he many possible teachers only one way

25:31

through and by the way it later

25:33

in June. For those of for the

25:35

dune people later in June his son

25:38

Lido the second his first some he

25:40

has sons with Sony. And.

25:42

He takes the rule on to be

25:44

his queen, but never sleeps with her.

25:48

Shiny becomes the concubine of the

25:50

kingdom. Rights. We don't quite get

25:52

there at the end of movie to

25:54

she has two children with them. The

25:56

first leader was killed by a heart

25:58

by our tone and. They'd and

26:00

the second lido to becomes this

26:03

massive emperor. Who.

26:06

Unleashed. Is incredible tyranny and cruelty

26:08

in the world but as Derek was

26:10

there is still can tell us what

26:12

he's doing. This is found the Golden

26:15

Path which he sees that this is

26:17

the only way to save humanity. Because

26:19

of the golden bout he has to

26:21

do all of these insane li curl

26:23

bangs. Or. It's it.

26:26

And then him and his father meet. At

26:28

the end of a particular time and. You

26:30

know that you realize they were doing the same thing

26:33

and and they actually had pure motivation? Rates.

26:35

In other words, they weren't just corrupted

26:37

that are we reading through. All

26:40

those into the desert in the and. Right?

26:42

And it's Paulson. It is a very

26:44

beautiful figure and he's He's wrestling with

26:47

everything that he sees. right?

26:50

And so what does that mean in terms

26:52

of leadership today? You know

26:54

when when you have. Artificial.

26:58

Intelligence. Which. Is

27:00

outlawed. And this movie. Yeah,

27:03

don't really have meant as human

27:05

beings men who become embodied artificial

27:07

intelligence like to Sir Howard. But

27:09

what happens when. You

27:11

have. Kind. Of a

27:14

government that claims that we need

27:16

to make these ten brutal moves.

27:19

In. Order to save humanity or the

27:21

galaxy because remembered the Galactic world and

27:23

this is the big challenge of do

27:25

that I think we need to address

27:28

and I think this is where it's

27:30

weird. Dune sales. Are they

27:32

doing succeeds in a lot of places? I

27:34

really want talked about leadership and messiah

27:37

prophecy that I'm here. I think Jim

27:39

sucks up. You know the

27:41

plan or he acts by more. Or. Because.

27:44

Frank Herbert. Fries.

27:49

To essentially he's essentially

27:51

making the Santos move.

27:54

His as it is holding the complexity of

27:57

it. He seeing the tyranny

27:59

of leader. Who later, anything

28:01

Paul unleashes jihad across the

28:03

universe. right? You know

28:05

a lot of again. The last line, send

28:07

them to paradise he says to i'm still

28:10

dark at the very end after he wins

28:12

that incredible sight you know with Saab. What's

28:14

his name on the the The The

28:16

younger Nephew. Pronounce. His name or

28:19

Mia? what's his name of somewhat? whatever.

28:21

What's the guy's name? The

28:24

fade. Right, right, Right. fade like he's

28:27

got some great rafa Pedraza. Favorite.

28:29

A good right said his we like

28:31

favorite I am in complete says he

28:33

about a madman maniac right? but was

28:35

that honor but Sarah three wins That.

28:38

A He. Says he says test

28:40

still gar send the from and

28:42

the Galaxy center to paradise so

28:44

he is making a decision for

28:46

this massive jihad. And.

28:52

He. Sees it in the vision. But.

28:55

The notion of a leader. Who.

28:58

Actually, Spends.

29:01

First Principles and First Valleys. In

29:04

this radical way. Because.

29:07

He has this omniscient vision

29:09

over generations. And

29:12

in feals, that's the only choice. It's

29:15

kind of let that conversation between

29:17

Gomorrah and Santos. And the

29:20

adventures and center says i know.

29:22

And. Gomorrah says his daughter we kills in the

29:25

end and sacrifices are and to get one of

29:27

the stones he says she says them you can't

29:29

know. So. It's

29:31

about. Omniscience. In

29:34

other words, politics and

29:36

omniscient divine position and

29:38

as willing to unleash

29:40

a jihad. right?

29:43

That will kill. I.

29:46

Think sixty two billion people as that the

29:48

dune you know kind of figure. One ninety

29:50

planets. Whatever it is, it's bad. It's

29:53

why he didn't want to go south. And the

29:55

beginning memory? all movie right? And. All

29:57

movie I'd. Neither him nor.

30:00

Honey. Actually, buy into the

30:02

sorry. He wants

30:04

to stay in the North right? He

30:06

says i'm I know, I'm no, I'm

30:08

know, You know. I'm. No profit.

30:11

I'm whose sole. You.

30:13

Know I don't want us shot. he

30:15

says you know we're free from in.

30:18

right? We're not waiting for a profit. We're not

30:20

waiting for a messiah we're not waiting for I

30:22

have a lease algae eve he says i want

30:24

to just few flights. How funny when he was

30:26

signed his heart is so that's when a fight

30:29

with your. Own I want to learn

30:31

your whereas I want to be equal with you and

30:33

Chinese as men and women are equal here. Everyone does

30:35

everything for the sake of the whole. Him is very

30:37

beautiful and he has is very beautiful, fallen in love

30:39

and this is his woman. And.

30:42

And then. Divisions.

30:45

And. Transom. Divisions Citizen

30:47

His mother the been a

30:49

jesuit, calls him. Because. His

30:52

mother still have been a desert. A mother loves him

30:54

dearly and and she's in a desert. You

30:57

know? and and it's member that line.

30:59

There were at the end where his

31:01

mother is talking to her. Reverend

31:03

Mother. When. They're all their and

31:05

that scene at the end and she says

31:07

that they're talking to each other, mentally says

31:09

he took the wrong side. for

31:11

that same and then know he are mostly

31:14

on the surname the other one says

31:16

you have all people should know there are

31:18

no sides says. It's. A strange

31:20

moment in others in some sense. You.

31:22

Know Jessica the been a deserter,

31:24

luggage or son whose husband was

31:27

destroyed. Some our she. Draws

31:29

him in. Any

31:31

comes to the conclusion there's no other moved

31:33

to make. And he

31:35

unleashes a jihad. That. They

31:37

politely call a crusade. For

31:40

the sake of the vision because

31:42

it is return because that is

31:44

the prophecy which which destroys the

31:47

galaxy under the. Argument

31:49

that anything else would have been worse. Was

31:52

not. An argument can be verified by any one. I

31:56

not suffered any validation sort complete

31:58

relying on Paul's goodness. And.

32:02

We like Paul are who we last saw Ray

32:04

Allen right? right? Doesn't

32:07

want to get you. Just took us to the heart of it. The.

32:09

Yeah and in. This is

32:11

in I think this brings up

32:14

an important point which is he

32:16

has his visions and he has

32:18

his calculations and it's about how

32:20

clear and how clarified his that

32:23

vision And do you give God

32:25

the mystery a chance to show

32:27

another way? Are you continually listening

32:30

and always willing to change course

32:32

no matter what? That's what circumstances

32:34

happening and that's what the leader

32:36

must always do as he has

32:39

a clear vision of what. The

32:41

next step should be it should always be

32:43

Now let me check back in and listen.

32:45

Let me go back in the ceremony. Let

32:48

me go back into my prayer. Let me

32:50

go back in the my chat with me,

32:52

go back into my contact with the mystery

32:54

without any ego with radical humility and prostration

32:57

in front of the mystery and say is

32:59

this the right path I checked with you

33:01

again you know great spirit to see if

33:03

this is the right a horton for me

33:06

to take. Gorgeous. My brother

33:08

it. Yes, Yes, yes no. But just

33:10

yes. Yes And yes And an end.

33:13

And you have dharma. If.

33:15

You notice in the movie and again

33:17

that there's there's like thirty really great

33:19

gorgeous things to say about really important

33:21

beautiful things. Indian on. And we're starting

33:23

with the hardest part which is where

33:25

critiquing. You. Know where we're Frank Herbert?

33:27

I think I think we're The movie gets lost

33:30

right? because it's in the movie. There's

33:32

no. Image. After.

33:37

Lado. Of a trade is his kills. And

33:40

Lado Remember and the and in the first week

33:42

take us back to the first movie for a

33:44

second when later lands on a s. Knowing

33:47

that. This. Is not.

33:49

This is dangerous. thinking. He has

33:51

may more time to out with dar Conan

33:53

said the a brick as doesn't really think

33:55

the and protect. You know, iraq us

33:57

away from our corners and gave it to him as

33:59

a crisis. Because he was feeling generous,

34:01

he knows there's some trap he has enough

34:03

time, but in that small amount of time

34:06

before he still does. Like the first or

34:08

second night, you know he's with Doctor

34:10

Times They the black woman who was the

34:12

in charge of the transition who is secretly

34:15

the head of the same and. Right

34:18

and and then he stops. Any

34:20

basic risks as a life to save a

34:22

bunch, a man and a spice factory? Or

34:25

it. and she's like, wow, right? And ads

34:27

and see you see says he

34:29

isn't First Principles and First Valleys.

34:31

He both is both wielding power.

34:35

right? And yet, power Lado is

34:37

is the best figure. Power

34:39

and value merged together. Yup,

34:41

Is deeply in love with his wife. He

34:44

won't marry his daughters, wipes his concubine. He

34:46

won't marry or for political reasons pieces. but

34:48

after he dies. We.

34:50

Don't have an image a

34:52

dharma as you will. Write.

34:55

A. A. A A set

34:57

of first principles and first values.

34:59

A story. Of. The.

35:01

Vision of Redemption The always for a we have is

35:04

the greening of the planet. Writers:

35:06

This does vision of that. the green plan

35:08

maybe as it's he has a visually first

35:11

yet early out of Aliyah, his sisters in

35:13

her womb the whole times is going to

35:15

be born later right? You know of her,

35:17

you know on this green planet and there's

35:19

this light seem that. Is. Lightly sprinkled

35:21

the movies. it's deeper and the bucks of

35:24

the desire and the vision of making the

35:26

planet green. but that's an ecological there's no,

35:28

it's very beautiful, present a moral vision. Rights

35:31

and so. There's not

35:33

a vision. Who's the good human? Who.

35:36

Is and our language. My brother who's home or

35:38

more. While yeah him as

35:40

you said you must set up because in

35:42

in the emperor in his criticism. Of.

35:44

Right? Lido a trade he says

35:46

he was never heard. He was

35:48

never good enough to be a great

35:51

leader because he always lead from

35:53

the heart, base lead from that

35:55

part. I. And and that made him. And

35:57

that made him weeks he that way. That was the opposite

35:59

I would have. Like known for bother. right?

36:02

right? Absolutely so have. You

36:05

know, and in some sense you could say.

36:09

Paul. Made the best move possible. And

36:11

we have to just trespass. But. That.

36:14

Actually a dozen other words Actually, No, we

36:16

don't do that. We don't. We.

36:18

Don't trust messiahs, right?

36:20

That basically say. I.

36:23

Am the Guru. I am the source.

36:26

Made. I am the vision. Right?

36:28

It doesn't have to be validated by any

36:31

larger set of responses. And for rouse, trust

36:33

me, send them to Paradise. Right

36:36

lathered, Know. You. And

36:38

and some real sense one way to

36:41

read June. As as

36:43

saying precisely what we're saying. That.

36:45

The point of the book is

36:47

to actually critique. That

36:50

notion of leadership. In

36:53

which the leader or this euro.

36:56

Is dissociative from the field. The

36:58

value. Right. And as

37:00

even though they're claiming that they're doing

37:03

it for the Santos ultimate good. But

37:05

we can't access it and then

37:08

says. Well. In

37:11

in some sense this is why science christians

37:13

been so important brother you know I have talked

37:15

about as many times over the last. You.

37:18

Know sixty seventy years in some sense.

37:20

he he does this little trick in

37:22

the movie which is very subtle and

37:24

bro and he says oh oh. Oh.

37:29

Artificial. Intelligence from computer. Or

37:32

outlawed. So. There's men,

37:34

Tots who has you just said do good.

37:36

As we talked about calculations, he said he

37:38

does readies as vision and calculations You said.

37:41

So you're You're referring to the fact that

37:43

Palos both men taught. His

37:45

boat this kind of. You know, he's

37:47

cool, been trained as a mentor, not

37:49

meanings. this kind of super human calculator

37:51

who can gonna do all sorts of

37:53

like and same scenario planning a And

37:55

he's a belligerent. Right, he's

37:58

at. Pizza today. Raised.

38:01

Isn't. Kind. Of prophetic figure. He

38:03

brings them both together, but then we

38:05

have no access to him anymore. Then

38:08

is often his own world. He. Capitalist.

38:12

Know. Themselves I'm. right?

38:14

I mean, when God says he's gonna destroy

38:17

Saddam in a more. And

38:19

the Book of Genesis. Abrams says

38:21

fact that. And. God

38:23

says wow Matt I'm gonna.

38:26

Stick hello it's me. God did

38:28

you forget your daughter do at

38:31

a neighboring says to god. You.

38:33

Know what? your God. I don't

38:36

really care, As sulfate color

38:38

or its lay a semi spot will

38:40

the judge of the whole world not

38:42

do justice? Not. Be bound by

38:44

the field the value. And.

38:46

In some sense, the lineages sang.

38:50

Even God. Is.

38:52

Not also. We. Challenge

38:55

God. right? When

38:57

God violates the build a value

38:59

because we participate in that see

39:01

old and what Frank Herbert sees

39:03

beautifully and it's not clear as

39:05

endorsing it or is it critiquing

39:08

it's so we don't know. Fried

39:10

but whatever it is dunes creating

39:12

this archetype of leadership that can't

39:14

be silenced in a charismatic leadership.

39:17

It's dissociated from the feel. the value.

39:19

We love Paul! We.

39:22

Do a map will have ball. And

39:25

we want to trust them. May.

39:28

Am I right about that? We want

39:30

to trust. They are No. Absolutely. And

39:32

I think one of the things that

39:35

makes us more complex is right that

39:37

the heart cannons and the Emperor down

39:39

with they are very clearly evil. They

39:41

are very clearly anti life, right? So

39:44

there you know there is no ambiguity

39:46

in to the there's no beauty, There's

39:48

no value, There's no love, It's all

39:51

power. it's all say it is. All

39:53

in all, it's all the upside down

39:55

tree of life and sitter och raw

39:57

of anti. Life itself anti value.

40:00

In my life yet? So the

40:02

first two houses that you that

40:04

he's attacking. You. Know which

40:06

is the The House of the Emperor

40:08

and the House of the Harkins you

40:11

like? Well they're clearly on the backside.

40:13

Auto that them down The let's take

40:15

them down so that but that doesn't

40:17

actually reflect the real world because they're

40:20

at they were all they're almost presented

40:22

in this year redeemable way. Like

40:24

they are beyond redemption like the Baron

40:26

and right that like national loaded figure

40:29

in the rap, just full of glutton

40:31

every seven deadly sin his life for

40:33

at the devil is inference or who

40:36

also lane body main full embodiment right

40:38

and same with an emperor. he's got

40:40

his own jealousies and corral like all

40:43

of this year like well. All.

40:45

right? So this jihad, this crusade I

40:47

is gigantic of this is this is

40:49

black and white They gotta go. But

40:51

then. I. Haven't continued in the

40:53

series so I don't understand. But then

40:55

to imagine. Fox. Sixty more

40:58

planets Mean all sixty of those

41:00

planets were all all the houses.

41:03

Also. All entirely evil.

41:05

There was nobody there with a

41:07

little bit of a mix and

41:09

how com. Paul. Wouldn't be able

41:11

to. Talk. With some of

41:13

them, why wouldn't they wanted kind of like

41:16

work this thing out like I understand with

41:18

the harken ins and understand with the Emperor.

41:20

But then as it moves forward, you're like

41:22

fuck like everybody's this black and white and

41:25

that's not the way the real world is

41:27

And that were gets really confusing. That.

41:29

For it gets really know that that's

41:32

completely right. So let's let's. Let's.

41:34

Sit back for a second, And.

41:38

Let's talk about something so so. So.

41:40

We've pointed to that and and odyssey One last thing

41:42

about and then I wanna. On a

41:45

map, mass in a talk to and like mobile.

41:47

Take. Us down Maybe a different path. one that

41:49

you may not be so familiar with. It's called

41:52

psychedelic so have you ever heard of that? Yeah,

41:55

somebody to game someplace their right,

41:58

right? right? So hum. so. I

42:00

would go into your territory here right

42:02

in a in a second. but even

42:04

just before that I think in some

42:07

sense. What? Herbert

42:09

is saying. Is.

42:13

That. Artificial Intelligence.

42:17

Men: Thoughts. Combined.

42:19

With spirit. And

42:22

Jihad. When you put those

42:24

two together, you get. Existential

42:27

risk of enormous possibility

42:29

because. You. Base it

42:31

when you merge together. The men

42:34

taught who is this human Artificial

42:36

intelligence right? The super computer. Fullest.

42:39

And you merge that together with a

42:41

kind of jihad egg prophetic. it is

42:44

written. And. That

42:46

then assumes absolute authority.

42:49

Which. You've done is you've ended the

42:51

conversation of Cosmos. Is

42:54

basically said you cannot participate in

42:56

this conversation and based on with

42:58

the lineage says the aim Ibrahim

43:00

figure the source of Islam in

43:02

brain, the source of right. The

43:04

Christ path right the fourth. Your

43:06

Abraham walking to the Binding of

43:08

Isaac is considered Jesus walking to

43:10

the cross. It's an obvious you

43:12

the source of the zebra Wisdom

43:15

I didn't aber I'm also deeply

43:17

connected to the East. He sends

43:19

concubines to the east so this

43:21

Ibrahim exceed your when he says.

43:23

As. You.

43:25

Even challenge the divine

43:27

computer. The. Ultimate Intelligence and

43:29

you you challenge guarding say God We

43:31

gotta be in the seal the valley

43:33

together. And the Prophet

43:35

participates in the field, the value

43:37

ups and if you. Remove.

43:40

The common people from the conversation

43:42

if he basically said. You.

43:45

Can't have a public conversation because

43:47

only. New. A D knows.

43:50

Only. The Leon I'll I'll game

43:52

or grade knows. You're.

43:55

Fucked. Racket methods, right?

43:57

and so. Actually, that notion

43:59

of artificial intelligence? I mean, look,

44:01

look at Jihad Today in the

44:03

world. Are none of it's

44:06

wholly forms of wrestling with the heart

44:08

that are so beautiful in Islam. but

44:10

the forms that lets you can take

44:12

take a lot of the steroids. Take

44:15

Iraq, Syria, Yemen. You know the Hutus

44:17

right? You know, take that the that?

44:19

the Sunni shiite right conversation in Iran.

44:21

Are you take that take that world

44:23

merger with artificial intelligence? Right

44:26

and with Atomic power. Which. Is

44:29

exactly we just saw in June and

44:31

basically what they're saying is no one

44:33

can participate in a conversation with us.

44:36

No. One gets it's silly idea and

44:38

s yeah, and if it's not

44:41

artificial intelligence becoming the ultimate authority,

44:43

than it's prophecy which is fixed,

44:45

static and unchangeable that can also

44:47

become an ultimate authority. And if

44:49

that can't be questioned, an amateur

44:51

all gathered a problem. Yup, exactly

44:54

the each other's And that's what

44:56

What he did brilliantly Herbert as

44:58

he brought those two strains together

45:00

and he said oh my god

45:02

And here's the crazy thing. And.

45:05

It's gonna be a sympathetic Sager. Is.

45:07

The here's that's I think is so

45:09

sleazy, beautiful and brilliant about both the

45:12

the books and the movie. In other

45:14

words, We. Love Pulse.

45:17

Rate. We. Love Aliyah his sister

45:19

appears later but who who speaks in the

45:21

whole movie to you know from the womb

45:24

we love Jessica. They're. Clearly good

45:26

people. Are

45:28

nuts? The thing? if they were. It

45:32

They are bad people. And we didn't

45:34

love them. And As and Johnny. In.

45:36

As says memory says about

45:38

Paul was stalking her friend

45:40

Sitka. I

45:42

can ever friendship got something to remember

45:45

names is the one that I'm was

45:47

this great fighter than actually. The

45:49

her conan in a younger nephew sade

45:51

actually killed but she killed nine people

45:53

with one blade or talking to each

45:55

other and she says to her you

45:57

know I I trust him He's sincere.

46:01

I think she's right Another, it's were

46:03

right to love tall. Post. Beautiful.

46:07

I love that! There. Are any

46:09

menu and many ways. Johnny represents the

46:11

goddess in her pure form at least

46:13

at this point she represents the goddess

46:15

in are pure form and in Paul

46:18

gets the blessing of the real goddess

46:20

of the absolute he had a blessing

46:22

the goddess. Chinese. Gas and

46:24

me right? Chinese? The Goddess?

46:26

right? And and see is

46:28

the one. Who has desert

46:30

power? Rates his

46:32

own was desert Power right now. And

46:35

Desert Power it. You remember at the

46:37

end of. The

46:39

First Movie. But

46:42

the beginning of the first movie when they go

46:44

from college and to Iraq as. His

46:46

father's says depaul like we know the

46:48

power of the see, We know that

46:51

blessing. And we're going to Iraq

46:53

as to find desert power. And.

46:56

And and later was so great

46:58

he realized. That. The been

47:00

a desert or problematic. That's why the

47:02

been a Jesuit Mother Marie I'm advisors

47:04

Saddam the Fourth, the emperor to destroy

47:06

the it's radius. As she

47:09

tells his.in his daughter I I advised and

47:11

and when she says why should because they

47:13

became defiant. They. Were

47:15

defiant for the sake of value. I

47:17

mean, Lado is the best figure in the galaxy

47:19

about wields power. He knows

47:21

sea power. He wants to learn desert power. And

47:24

he says to us and we're going

47:26

to Caracas for desert power And then

47:29

at the end of movie one member

47:31

they're walking. And. And they

47:33

they some some some and

47:35

the. You. Know the

47:37

the need. The Beautiful worm.

47:40

right? Kind of. This is in the

47:42

background and he says desert power. And

47:45

sisters Evans anything yet. I

47:47

had and then. And. Then he learns

47:49

to actually. You. Know

47:51

ride is he still got writing and he says

47:53

you think still over teach me how to ride

47:55

says no you're not a freshman. And

47:58

he says but but I am. That I want

48:00

to be but I can be and she says okay. Maybe.

48:03

You can be. Maybe I can trust your and and

48:05

maybe we will teach when the he he learned to

48:07

ride. And. He he

48:09

actually merges his energy. With.

48:12

The desert. I just as

48:14

repaired. Very beautiful. The. I mean this

48:16

is the this is the story

48:18

of. I think that the worm

48:20

represents Potter Mama and represents the

48:22

power of Mother Nature herself. You

48:24

know an omen that sir as

48:26

a beautiful image and then the

48:29

idea. There's this idea in culture

48:31

that only the indigenous can access

48:33

the power of mother Nature and

48:35

the white, the white man or

48:37

the white woman rhino the which

48:39

are always conquerors which are always

48:41

late colonizers. my love that have

48:43

no right to access. The Power of

48:46

Mother Nature and this movie is saying

48:48

no. The Worthy. The worthy can be

48:50

invited to step in and hold and

48:52

harness that power in it must be

48:54

that way. You know Gordon and this

48:56

is this is something that it's also

48:58

that was one of the like the

49:00

beautiful points of the bill we were.

49:02

There is a lot of questions though.

49:04

know you can. He says yes in

49:06

a like. trust me I can. In

49:09

Nature is so ferocious that nature will

49:11

be the ultimate. The ultimate Litmus test

49:13

will be the ultimate initiation if he

49:15

passes. That initiation, then. He.

49:18

Is worthy. You know, like he's not. He's

49:20

actually worthy of holding up Madison. Know.

49:22

That's beautiful that's completely as completely

49:24

crazy. Be a right another, it's

49:26

the the deserts. The. Desert Fathers

49:29

the desert in which Jesus goes

49:31

the doesn't which Moses go to

49:33

the earth and Desert Power meeting.

49:36

And not. The the heart conan

49:38

are afraid of the warm. Air

49:41

Freight of the Desert. I bet

49:43

they don't They can access desert power.

49:45

He's able to ride and actually his

49:47

son Lido to. Actually

49:50

merges with the word. He. Actually trends,

49:52

figures and becomes half human, half or.

49:55

I'd. And this kind of like so it's this.

49:57

You know, it's this and and you're not clear.

49:59

Has he been degraded? To warm up

50:01

there is the actually synergies dance

50:03

to something new, but it's the

50:05

sense that I can actually access

50:07

the rob power of nature and

50:09

as and actually. Bring that

50:12

to bear in this stunning way

50:14

and that's beautiful. That's beautiful.

50:17

That's. Beautiful. right? So what's

50:19

that? What's another one of the themes here?

50:21

Because there's so many complex themes. What? Yeah,

50:23

it jumps. What's another one that jumps out

50:26

a you that you want? I'm in one

50:28

exposing the nets when the jumps out of

50:30

me which I'm really excited. Stop the about

50:32

brother and we've We've had this pieces of

50:35

this conversation a to really kind of. To

50:37

really get this clear and to read

50:40

this text of culture and to try

50:42

and articulate from an A news story

50:44

of politics and is Gloria Value is

50:46

who is the leader. And. Particularly

50:48

the relationship between politics

50:51

and psychedelics. Is

50:53

is a huge theme of the

50:56

movie so. Basically.

50:58

In this story you have. Paul.

51:03

Who's. Both. The. Future to

51:05

beat such address. So

51:08

is the ultimate expression of the

51:10

been a Jesuit. Which

51:12

is ultimates tragedy. Been a jesuit

51:14

are doing like pod they sink

51:16

they're they're trying to save the

51:18

universe. Sues got this kind of

51:20

Mr. Call. Street seeds

51:23

yet. You.

51:25

Know. Possibility.

51:27

Of Vision. Then. You have

51:29

to best I bet. like but I think

51:31

lights. let's let's go there for a second.

51:33

but yeah we I gotta I gotta stop

51:36

on the been a desert because for me

51:38

the been a jesuit. Wiping.

51:40

Out. A house and

51:42

treaties and planning to that. It's

51:44

irredeemable. Actually, their didn't. Actually, it's

51:46

actually irredeemable. They already know there's

51:48

no cause that could justify the

51:50

destruction of that much goodness in

51:52

that much love. There is no

51:55

cause. There's like there's no ends

51:57

the justify those means. And so

51:59

I think actually you can clearly

52:01

say that the been a jesuit

52:03

or off an irredeemable. So.

52:05

Here's here's an here's what's complex about

52:08

it right to the been a Jazz

52:10

or it so where do they I'd

52:12

say is it is really important to

52:14

been a Jesuit to their messianic Jazeera

52:16

Jesse. I'd. They. Wipe out the

52:18

house of at Freddy's we find out later and

52:20

and movie to. Berlin.

52:23

Who marie I'm that kind

52:25

of mother. spheres talking to

52:28

ruin the the Emperor's daughter

52:30

is his. Teeth. Students.

52:34

They've taken love out of the

52:37

equation. And. Then

52:39

in some sense what happens is

52:41

Jessica. Lado.

52:43

His wife. Who

52:47

doesn't know that the bridges are going to do

52:49

this? Who. Has fallen in love

52:51

with later. let herself see a love. She

52:54

actually becomes this heroic figure and it's almost

52:57

like at that moment the been a gesture.

52:59

It. Take that once. You're

53:03

in other words, the they

53:05

begin trying to do this

53:07

Very profound. Ninety generations of

53:10

careful genetic engineering. Literally.

53:12

A. Kind of ultimate eugenics to kind

53:14

of produce Kid said todd rough but

53:17

you kind of sealed the goodness of

53:19

their intention and she says he had

53:21

them away. I'm she says to Jessica

53:23

what was that? There are no sides.

53:26

And doing this for the universe. And yet.

53:29

She gets lost your apsley rights,

53:31

gets lost in an unworthy mobile

53:33

weights, and when she tries to

53:35

explain why she destroyed the house

53:37

of At Freddy's. To to

53:40

Iran, Iraq and that on how to pronounce

53:42

the name they the on the to the

53:44

king's daughter and maybe the I. I

53:47

R U L a an era when.

53:51

You. Know says how many good reasons as they were

53:53

defiant. right?

53:55

So you're right said us. and and member

53:58

they speak in this doubles voice. The

54:00

writers the that voice comes out your

54:02

logo which which which takes over somebody

54:04

elses agency with his over some an

54:07

agency in out in eraser Monarch went

54:09

on for. The Fiat well

54:11

I guess that will english demonic round

54:13

in the some on the grounds. That

54:16

is the clear line of delineation between

54:18

magic and som aneurysm and brew Harissa

54:20

for witchcraft or sorcery. It

54:22

rice or have you have you subsume

54:24

somebody elses agency if the or in

54:26

the participation for the for the good

54:28

of healing but you allow the person

54:31

they're agency. You are a good and

54:33

dead or couldn't data You are a

54:35

medicine person. You're giving medicine if you

54:37

take over power, even if you're ends

54:39

justify the means. you're actually practicing sorcery

54:41

and you're in black magic at that

54:43

miss a day. I don't either. I

54:45

mean they they use it at the

54:47

end at the use it in the

54:49

in the middle of the first movie.

54:52

it's. Right to actually save themselves from

54:54

being thrown the desert and how they

54:56

survive. I and then you're

54:58

right than as it goes on, They

55:01

use it as best he direct the answer. That

55:04

this is Greg the Ass not know happen

55:06

as a problem with less the seduction a

55:08

black magic as I get. all right like

55:10

if you have it, you have to be

55:13

also bound so deeply by the field of

55:15

value that you use it as the last

55:17

resort when that lifesaving self defense yes no

55:20

no no move as and it's not to

55:22

say. Okay, You know

55:24

if you even learn it, you will

55:26

be corrupted you automatically. But once you

55:29

once you have that weapon, you have

55:31

to really really really be intensely bound

55:33

by the good and then trust myself

55:35

with power in you know, in the

55:38

most immaculate sense. That's right. And the

55:40

been and beautifully said in the Been

55:42

A Jesuit. In. Destroying the

55:44

house of the Treaties. It's right.

55:46

They cross the line and. And.

55:49

The Emperor crosses the line in and

55:51

other it's the way that the Baron

55:53

Her conan. Wants. To blackmail

55:55

the emperor as that he can

55:57

reveal that the Emperor actually practiced.

56:00

The Baden the a sexual mouse of a

56:02

trade is that This at you know, A

56:05

trade is is that the

56:08

vision. Of

56:10

right Messianic leadership of right Prophecy

56:12

added to the vision of what's

56:14

possible. Snell. It's go to let's

56:16

see what we have. Years we've got. We've.

56:19

Got. Paul.

56:22

Who. Isn't on hand Men taught? He

56:24

does this massive calculations and the other

56:26

end is kind of have been a

56:29

jesuit. Prodigy. But

56:31

who steps away from have been a jazz or it. right?

56:33

He actually. Blast Marie! I'm back

56:35

right at the scene at the end of

56:37

the movie as realize she can't control them.

56:40

right? So he's is actually stepped into his

56:42

own autonomy. And.

56:45

He's. Completely animated by

56:47

space. His. right?

56:49

Ned's the that the politics

56:52

and space in the movies

56:54

are completely into and completely

56:57

bound up. They can't be

56:59

separated and spices execs. right?

57:02

I'm in Space is both spice, both. Opens

57:05

your field, Everyone

57:07

has their own unique experience of spice in the

57:09

movie so they point out every as a difference

57:12

there and Psychedelic Journey. And

57:14

and yet. Paul's.

57:16

Spice Experiments pause drinking of the

57:18

water of life which are two

57:21

different experiences right of the blue

57:23

water right that comes which is

57:25

the water obliged that comes from

57:27

the worm. the I'm. I'm

57:30

was called that that the sky who

57:32

lewd besides know nino or was a

57:34

call the on the sideline allude. Say.

57:37

Allude right? right? Right? Right? So

57:42

this our tix psychedelic staying

57:44

is really really important and

57:46

maybe we can step away

57:48

for a second From didn't

57:51

Write and. In. A

57:53

Dune talks about kind of the ultimate.

57:56

Expression of it's in ways

57:58

that that collapse. You.

58:00

Know you know under the. Under. This

58:03

kind of exponential eyes extreme,

58:05

you know, kind of wild.

58:07

You know? Frank Herbert in

58:09

a beautiful. Fantastical. Universe.

58:12

But his point is some that's really

58:14

holy and sacred, which is. That.

58:17

Politics leap to. You.

58:19

Never that business, these drugs and I mean. You.

58:22

Know in his autobiography. right?

58:25

You know, mister Founder of Apple?

58:27

right? You. Know Steve Jobs?

58:30

Rights extensively About Had the

58:32

most essential experience he has

58:35

that allows some taxi envision.

58:37

Apple is. Second,

58:40

Since John Mack is written in his share

58:42

and I've talked about it but he's written

58:44

about it publicly are using a thirty times

58:46

I dropped acid, builds all votes French know

58:49

in other words you know in I mean

58:51

I can I can tell the same story

58:53

about how you know how honor was created

58:56

them in the says these are. There's countless

58:58

stories of this and and I think what's

59:00

interesting about this. What occurs to me is

59:02

in some ways the way that they linked

59:05

the psychedelic so with the economics of spice

59:07

and also the utility of spice and also.

59:09

Been a politics that are tied

59:12

into the economics and utility. It's

59:14

almost as if natural gas was

59:16

spice. right? Because this is

59:18

the part of the world. it's the desert,

59:20

you're tired. So what if natural gas was

59:23

spice and and right And so natural gas

59:25

also was was a psychedelic like Lsd. I

59:27

saw a side but in in a while

59:29

natural gas is a psychedelic. Yeah and then

59:31

and then the water of life which is

59:33

like oil would say like like sweet crude.

59:36

you know like crude oil. Is.

59:38

The water of life. so that's like

59:40

I was gone. So like imagine if

59:43

natural gas was also for the utility.

59:45

The natural gas has the power haunt,

59:47

warm houses you know make make all

59:50

of the gas stoves work and do

59:52

all those things and oil which powers

59:54

all the cars in the vehicles, in

59:57

the rockets and all of these other

59:59

things, a plastics, all of the other

1:00:01

things that we need and it was

1:00:04

also they were all so potent. Psychedelic.

1:00:06

It is very interesting move where he

1:00:08

combines these two different things that are

1:00:11

completely opposed in our current world. but

1:00:13

in this world this science fiction world.

1:00:15

he blends them all together which also

1:00:18

creates this massively complex you know nest

1:00:20

of ways to understand. This is like

1:00:22

wow right? That's

1:00:25

gorgeous And and. How do

1:00:27

we response to that? Like said, we. Were

1:00:30

entertained. But. What

1:00:32

does it speak as a text of culture? and

1:00:34

I think that doesn't. By. Me

1:00:37

to sit should we can articulate this

1:00:39

out loud in a this great scene.

1:00:42

In. The lineage of Solomon were

1:00:44

Moses says Alibi. Would it be

1:00:46

that everyone should be profits? At.

1:00:49

This kind of democratization of prophecy.

1:00:52

Right And democracies. Nephrops.

1:00:55

He means that. We.

1:00:58

Don't create an elite.

1:01:02

Which. Has the best augmentation.

1:01:05

Which. Is what we're looking at today. It's right in,

1:01:07

as we bred an elite today. Whatever. Looking at

1:01:09

today, this possibility, you know for that. For all

1:01:11

of human history, the very wealthy always thought they

1:01:13

were better than the poor. but they work. Stress.

1:01:16

They were making it up for the first time

1:01:18

in our generation. There's. Actually a significant

1:01:20

possibly the that within thirty forty years

1:01:22

that will be true that if you

1:01:24

will have sufficient wealth you will be

1:01:26

augmented, you will have longevity, You'll have

1:01:28

better cognisance, you'll be more statically be

1:01:30

a false where are literally creating this

1:01:32

possibility? It's of this very i'm an

1:01:34

enhanced A leaked. Now

1:01:37

in some sense, With.

1:01:39

The movies describing is a

1:01:41

similar kind of enhanced elites

1:01:43

but in the realm of

1:01:45

spirit. It. In in

1:01:47

some sense my hope is that Frank

1:01:49

Herbert is not arguing for this. My

1:01:52

hope is right, but either way it

1:01:54

matter. I think the Way Wished experience

1:01:56

dune as a radically wildly entertaining and

1:01:59

seductive and beauty. For mass

1:02:01

of fucking critique. right?

1:02:03

Of that possibility and isn't the best

1:02:05

way to experience doing. Is it actually

1:02:08

Frank Herbert is dropping him. a goddess

1:02:10

is moving to him, and he's dropping

1:02:12

into concerts. this incredible warning sign that

1:02:14

makes it through the decades, right? You

1:02:16

know he dies young. and like you

1:02:19

know in his in his early sixties

1:02:21

like of me, dies very very young.

1:02:23

and seventy five something like that. But.

1:02:26

He drops into culture this thing that kind

1:02:28

of and get arrested in a tries. It's

1:02:30

an end. It gets stopped because it's hard

1:02:33

to do and David Lynch threats it's hard

1:02:35

to do. There's this play and culture that's

1:02:37

moving against it and what he's saying is.

1:02:40

The. Same way we democratize governance and that's

1:02:43

it does not. hierarchies of attainment. Of

1:02:45

course, there's high agrees of attainment. It's

1:02:47

not a kind of everyone has to

1:02:49

be exactly at the same level of

1:02:51

attainment. And there's no. It and

1:02:53

we're we're creamier. kind of a leveling

1:02:55

of differences and it's a kind of

1:02:57

a weird us, you know, communism which

1:02:59

pretends to be equal. but actually, as

1:03:01

this kind of corrupt weird hierarchies know

1:03:03

what we're saying is. Is

1:03:05

that actually everybody has to be in spurts.

1:03:09

Have has to Be and the Christ ever to

1:03:11

have to be. And a everyone has to be

1:03:13

on a psychedelic journey. right? Ever

1:03:15

on us to be And prophecy. And.

1:03:18

We have to have a shared sealed

1:03:20

the value that binds us. And here's

1:03:22

the second pieces as part to our

1:03:24

process. He needs to give us deeper

1:03:26

clarity within the build a value. In

1:03:29

other words, You. And I said once, we were

1:03:31

kind of. A. In Journey Modes is

1:03:33

actually the first journey I'd done in a

1:03:35

very very long times. and we'd been doing

1:03:37

dharma for like a year. And see you

1:03:39

invited me into medicine in. The first thing

1:03:41

we suddenly came out was the medicine. It's

1:03:43

the dharma. Dharma needs a medicine. And.

1:03:46

In in some sense in general

1:03:48

it waits towards the medicine a

1:03:50

gift as brewing intuition. Politics.

1:03:53

And psychedelic seats come together. but

1:03:55

then. It does so without

1:03:57

a seal. the value. Without. A field

1:03:59

of dorm. And. Psychedelic takes over

1:04:02

and psychedelic becomes or

1:04:04

sire t. Were. Only

1:04:06

the most elite. right?

1:04:08

Or Trusted and their interpretation of their

1:04:11

psychedelics. And. No one's allowed to challenge

1:04:13

them. And so we

1:04:15

don't get we need a democratization. Of

1:04:18

this experience. And. You're somewhat. As

1:04:20

the next step. That. Makes sense. Yeah

1:04:22

and what in what you would want

1:04:25

was you would want? I would one

1:04:27

at least let me speak in the

1:04:29

first person. I would want Paul to

1:04:31

create an in treaty where the era

1:04:34

he invited the great houses under you

1:04:36

know, a banner of a banner of.

1:04:39

Truce. Yeah, you know like A and

1:04:41

in that they would bring them through

1:04:43

initiation where they would sit in a

1:04:45

circle with the leaders of the houses

1:04:47

and than they would breathe the spice

1:04:49

together and they would try to see

1:04:51

a shared vision and then com you

1:04:53

know come together instead of going on

1:04:55

this holy crusade. that's all destruction to

1:04:58

say. Like all right I mean of

1:05:00

course there are going to be some

1:05:02

planets that a Harkin is that will

1:05:04

just say no and double cross you

1:05:06

immediately and you have to deal with

1:05:08

the Harkins. How you have to deal with

1:05:10

the Harkin is right there. Pure evil but right

1:05:12

for everybody else you would want this like okay

1:05:14

no no no com come to the planet. Learn.

1:05:17

About our ways, let me share our medicine

1:05:19

and also if you don't we have a

1:05:21

hell of a stick. And the stick is

1:05:23

the entire Imperial Fleet. And if you want

1:05:26

to go that way it's not gonna go

1:05:28

well. I fuck and promise we got the

1:05:30

best fighters in the galaxy. It's were armed

1:05:32

to the teeth now. Before. We

1:05:35

go down that road. Com you

1:05:37

know, sit, sit on the floor,

1:05:39

you know, share our water, share

1:05:41

our spice. Let's. See if

1:05:43

we can come to you know come

1:05:45

to another another conclusion here and this

1:05:47

was the way of the the people

1:05:50

of Sabine and ancients peru you oh

1:05:52

and Sabine the one time they had

1:05:54

ceremonies with what schumer were there when

1:05:56

invite all of the difference potential right

1:05:59

the all tribes in regions in people's

1:06:01

to come sit with them and have

1:06:03

these massive thousand persons watch Uma ceremonies

1:06:05

and then for you know that the

1:06:08

priests would have their own they they

1:06:10

had their own wilco ceremonies are vulgar

1:06:12

ceremonies the sacred which is like the

1:06:14

water of life which they would take

1:06:16

to give them the power to be

1:06:19

able to serve and in the oh

1:06:21

and their connection to spare to be

1:06:23

able to serve the masses but they

1:06:25

held Piece you know according to the

1:06:28

archaeological records for like eight hundred years

1:06:30

by offering psychedelic ceremony to all of

1:06:32

the local populations know and it's one

1:06:34

of the few places in history where

1:06:37

you've seen piece for that sustained for

1:06:39

that long while this culture was in

1:06:41

power and utilizing the technology of psychedelic

1:06:43

medicine and watch him as very hard

1:06:46

opening and it's own of course you

1:06:48

know in this in this a trade

1:06:50

his way in this kristic way they

1:06:52

can invite them into the Madison of

1:06:54

the heart and we're seeing that now

1:06:57

with the legalization of Md I'm a

1:06:59

invite them. Into the medicine of the

1:07:01

heart and Soul And make sure

1:07:03

make sure make damn sure that

1:07:05

war is the very last fucking

1:07:07

option on the table. The very

1:07:09

last option. No. Ads Earth

1:07:11

Gorgeous Brother And and I want to

1:07:13

bring these. It's gorgeous and want to

1:07:15

bring these two things together. A meaning

1:07:17

as. A and at the

1:07:20

risk as. Let

1:07:26

go back to that notion of. Kind.

1:07:28

Of the medicine need to the dharma Dharma need some

1:07:31

medicine. When. A

1:07:33

person has a journey. You

1:07:35

know as the songs are rather on. And

1:07:38

Macleod yesterday and we were chanting

1:07:40

night and we're talking about the

1:07:42

distinction between chanting. And

1:07:46

medicine. Then. Skyn question

1:07:48

for an hour. They different cells.

1:07:51

When. You chance. You. Begin

1:07:53

with arousal from below. And.

1:07:56

Other it, it's your agency. It's.

1:07:59

Your voice. It's.

1:08:01

Your mind. Reading. A are

1:08:03

rising it up inside of you and

1:08:05

it it rises beautifully inside you and

1:08:07

and then your mind. Distraction and you

1:08:10

have to read said said she had

1:08:12

is your place. Singer Awareness on the

1:08:14

allure meant that lines cosmos as opposed

1:08:16

to meditation. Where you're you're placing your

1:08:19

awareness on awareness. In.

1:08:22

Medicine. Which. Is. Utterly

1:08:25

necessary. But. It's

1:08:27

a different pass and that it's

1:08:29

arousal from above. Like

1:08:31

falling in love at it as

1:08:33

gifts that descends and in takes

1:08:35

you inside. And.

1:08:39

That's both the enormous

1:08:41

potency and puts Potentiate

1:08:44

in quality of medicine.

1:08:48

But it's also. Why?

1:08:52

It needs to live. With.

1:08:55

In this. Field. Of value

1:08:58

and those values need to be

1:09:00

and and and in some sense.

1:09:02

When he wrote dune Frank Herbert,

1:09:04

he was still a for the

1:09:06

post modern world. You.

1:09:08

Could just assume value at the house of

1:09:11

a trade is. Value.

1:09:13

You. Do need to. It was just this

1:09:15

is what we've called and we've talked about

1:09:17

before. When we talk about me down at

1:09:20

in how does majority relate to value, Majority

1:09:22

talks about what we called common sense, sacred

1:09:24

axioms of value values Just a they're. Not

1:09:28

a problem. House of a Trade is

1:09:30

it's Nineteen Sixty Five. You know values

1:09:32

just there right now and and and

1:09:34

and you've got the sense right? that

1:09:36

is ago when the moon say i

1:09:38

want our i'm on you know, obsess

1:09:41

over by sing the whole thing by

1:09:43

my voice of us are heists but

1:09:45

size and the seven thousand jupiter a

1:09:47

lines up with the Mars you know

1:09:49

and it's the dawning of the age

1:09:51

of Aquarius And and Love well would

1:09:53

will steer the stars right. There's this.

1:09:56

It's the sixties fuck it's making

1:09:58

sixty five. Love Royals right

1:10:01

right at the heart rules. A

1:10:03

trade is regional, power in and

1:10:05

love can come together in this

1:10:07

beautiful way. And

1:10:09

then we realized. Move

1:10:12

the sixties died out, the journeys died

1:10:14

out because there was no field the

1:10:16

value for them to go into the

1:10:18

activism. Kind. Of it had a huge

1:10:21

impact And then we got into the seventies

1:10:23

and the greed of the eighties right? and

1:10:25

that you know and the the polarization of

1:10:27

the nineties and posts from there the exploded

1:10:29

and said you guys are assuming love love

1:10:31

that A value Skinner rights. Are

1:10:33

In and Mit Media Lab bases they're building

1:10:36

of the web on. Skinner loves to complete

1:10:38

socially constructed which is what. The.

1:10:40

Bridges or a thought? I'd love

1:10:42

some you to manipulate and move.

1:10:44

It is not a real forcing

1:10:47

cosmos so in some sense dune

1:10:49

assumes value. And

1:10:51

medicine is slang. In.

1:10:53

The field the valley but it never needs

1:10:56

to be exploited yet doesn't need to be

1:10:58

stood for. A trainees is just a treaties

1:11:00

that's just not true. We now know that's

1:11:02

not true. It's wide the been a jesuit.

1:11:04

For townhouse I'm afraid is it because

1:11:06

they were living in maternity? May.

1:11:09

Just assumed. right? Oh,

1:11:11

there's still the value, but actually,

1:11:14

No. One else is him that. Fried. Skinner.

1:11:16

Didn't. Assume it in I'm beyond freedom and

1:11:18

dignity. And the be bark decking the web

1:11:20

didn't assume it's an artificial intelligence, right? that's

1:11:23

actually driven by people. Think that love is

1:11:25

not real, doesn't assume it. So what we

1:11:27

need to do is in order to do

1:11:29

Madison. Wi to sleep medicine

1:11:31

and and you've been at the forefront

1:11:33

of claiming medicine and now part of

1:11:36

what we're doing and our conversation as

1:11:38

we're bringing medicine and dharma to gather.

1:11:41

And. That's what Frank Herbert was

1:11:43

looking for. But he

1:11:45

didn't know where to go for dharma. right?

1:11:48

So he's look and. Is.

1:11:51

It old Islam. Moon.

1:11:54

Is it all Judy's are not sure right?

1:11:56

Old croissants know we we need to draw

1:11:58

the best that we can. The all.

1:12:01

But. We can't go backwards. We have

1:12:03

to actually articulate. This. New

1:12:05

story of value in which

1:12:08

Madison. Is. Dancing with

1:12:10

Dharma which is dancing with politics.

1:12:13

While he had I think what he'd I

1:12:15

think what he was pointed way the place

1:12:17

where for him dharma seem to live is

1:12:20

in need. Indigenous practices of the from and.

1:12:23

You. Know like the way that they

1:12:25

actually handled the water that was

1:12:27

and cared for the water that

1:12:29

was within each being. They poured

1:12:31

the water back into the collective

1:12:33

well and there was. this is

1:12:35

true self concepts of the connection

1:12:37

to the field, in the sacred

1:12:40

honoring of the life, every life

1:12:42

that passes in, the wailing in

1:12:44

the grief and and some we

1:12:46

have this beautiful dances with wolves

1:12:48

or avatar. You know, the indigenous.

1:12:50

this kind of pre tragic sense

1:12:52

of value. That the indigenous whole

1:12:54

yes yes and and and and

1:12:57

you bring to bear are structure

1:12:59

of free tragic ending is exactly

1:13:01

right. in other words, midair. Any.

1:13:05

At. Least in it's public conversation is

1:13:07

pretty tragic and regard to values,

1:13:09

so I think you're absolutely right

1:13:11

brother. Heat sinks. Oh. My.

1:13:13

God. Desert Power. Is what you're

1:13:16

describing at and and and the skin

1:13:18

sits right and the and and everything

1:13:20

you described and in fact. The.

1:13:22

From and are originally

1:13:24

zen cities. I. Do kind

1:13:26

of land and crashed into you know

1:13:28

Iraq as. but then what happens as.

1:13:32

The. Freshman them selves.

1:13:36

Don't articulate a devalue.

1:13:39

Meaning. They move into Are you with

1:13:41

us or against us? right?

1:13:43

So they're they're They're actually quite

1:13:45

brutal. Rates. In other

1:13:48

words, they're willing to throw out

1:13:50

Jessica and Paul back into the

1:13:52

deserts because they're not part of

1:13:54

the tribe the either. As janitor.

1:13:56

Ethnocentric. Yeah, they're completely ethnocentric. That.

1:13:59

Sunglasses. Drink Beer! Driven

1:14:01

by a fundamentalist prophecy, they

1:14:04

want to replace the feudal

1:14:06

lord. With. A

1:14:09

futile messiah. Essentially it's and the

1:14:11

got a standing against it. As

1:14:13

you said Brother Sean he says

1:14:15

and or franchise has no know

1:14:17

that that that the enlightened vision

1:14:19

there's to enlighten visions in the

1:14:21

movie Now so betrayed his. And

1:14:24

shiny and her friends who say.

1:14:27

Actually, men and women are equal. Actually,

1:14:30

no one's dominating. Actually,

1:14:32

Where do we? We all act for

1:14:35

the sake of the whole ride? Actually,

1:14:37

this prophecy shit. Stop that, right? We're

1:14:39

not going away, right? We need to

1:14:41

actually step into our own freedom and

1:14:44

autonomy. They actually embody intuitively this possibility

1:14:46

of value as a house or betrayed.

1:14:48

He's. And Ex: Why

1:14:50

poles attract it's our policies are

1:14:52

balls drawn to her. Those are

1:14:55

the models of value. But in

1:14:57

the rest of the movie. Paul.

1:15:01

Post. Struggling to. Stay

1:15:03

thought the whole movie. Struggling to stay

1:15:05

close to the veal devalued so he

1:15:08

does or through Czerny. He does

1:15:10

it through well to do his father.

1:15:12

But but there's no articulation of this

1:15:14

new story of value. And then in

1:15:16

our language we would say there's no

1:15:18

cause moronic humanism. There's no unique self

1:15:20

theory. There's no. They

1:15:23

haven't well answered what we would call

1:15:25

the three great questions. Of

1:15:27

Cosmology Minutes of the through quick questions of

1:15:29

life. Who. Are you. Are

1:15:32

eight? Who The Fuck Are you Gordon? Who

1:15:34

Are we? Were

1:15:36

am I? Where are we? And

1:15:39

what on I do? And

1:15:42

what are we do? The

1:15:44

answers to Those three questions As your I have

1:15:46

talked so many times together. Those

1:15:48

create reality. And. Those questions

1:15:51

are not well answered. It's. All

1:15:53

skipped and I kind of.

1:15:56

You. Know apocalyptic, You know

1:15:58

medicine. the an explosion

1:16:00

drama and the result

1:16:03

is sixty billion people

1:16:05

dead. And. I mean

1:16:07

it. It's so deep because. At

1:16:09

this moment of medic were at this moment of

1:16:11

medications. And. In

1:16:13

some sense, They. Try and

1:16:16

solve the met a crisis

1:16:18

bypassing Matilda. Value. And

1:16:21

and what we need is. Is. Medicine

1:16:23

in the field, the value

1:16:25

to dance together. Right

1:16:28

so that. So. That we

1:16:30

bring together. The great strategy

1:16:33

of the been a Jesuit before they.

1:16:35

They. Do the irredeemable. Because.

1:16:38

That that they're very their their the they

1:16:40

are exiled from their own hearts. And

1:16:42

Jessica rebels against have registered by falling

1:16:44

in love right? We need to bring

1:16:46

together the Fighting Power member of the

1:16:49

Chinese. Unbelievable fighting right? She's like. My.

1:16:51

Than since she likes is awesome matches

1:16:54

man and woman together She's Harris Gambles

1:16:56

Paul as both heart and. But.

1:16:59

But we none of it's gonna work.

1:17:02

right? If we only make the

1:17:04

Frank Herbert moves and the

1:17:06

Frank Herbert move as go

1:17:08

backwards. Let's. Go back

1:17:11

to the ancient traditions and let's. Bring.

1:17:13

All those fun of melons together.

1:17:16

fundamental things together. but he doesn't.

1:17:18

See. It's making sixty Five. We're

1:17:21

We're not Folsom, We love him, but

1:17:23

he isn't. And. Work

1:17:25

with. we need to rewrite a new dude. There's

1:17:27

a new do and we're in. and Brian Herbert

1:17:29

keep donors. Dad did. With.

1:17:31

All due respect. But there's as a new doing that

1:17:33

needs to be written and in his new do

1:17:35

that beats to be written. Messiahs,

1:17:37

Are being born every place. Right

1:17:40

there. Being born in Yemen and they're

1:17:42

being born in Canada and they're being

1:17:44

born in New Zealand and their men

1:17:46

in their women and their Messiah or

1:17:48

being born every place into the field.

1:17:51

The value. And in

1:17:53

there and there's and there's a

1:17:55

radical democratization of desert power which

1:17:57

represents yeah, well as such a

1:17:59

mama and democratization, The of medicine

1:18:01

represents the spice in the water

1:18:03

of life like all of the

1:18:05

medicine becomes universally available. and so

1:18:08

all of that Messianic consciousness everybody

1:18:10

has access to. And in there's

1:18:12

a certain cancers, the Sunga, a

1:18:14

community that actually holds the messiah

1:18:16

accountable because there's many different visions

1:18:18

and you sit down and you

1:18:20

pass the to Nuba and you

1:18:22

pass the tobacco in you share

1:18:24

your vision, sports and found. Then

1:18:27

you have the Galactic Council which

1:18:29

is another vision. Like a Mathias his

1:18:31

vision of what he believes actually exists as

1:18:33

galactic Council that's looking from a feel the

1:18:35

value of what is the best thing to

1:18:38

do as and where the galaxy. A

1:18:40

And let let's pick up once. And

1:18:42

you just said as others I had,

1:18:44

we hold the messiah accountable right? Meaning

1:18:47

we don't kill the messiah see what

1:18:49

you said, so important rights and other

1:18:51

g you held the dialectic in it

1:18:53

so beautifully. We hold the messiah accountable

1:18:55

Meaning not that we kill yourself. That's.

1:18:58

It there's only a Sunga Know buddhists. Not.

1:19:00

That there's no attainment. Not. That

1:19:02

there's not a holistic hierarchy is what we

1:19:05

do as we tell our leaders. Often.

1:19:07

Martin Luther King emerge as we

1:19:09

tell him. Malcolm X emerges. We

1:19:11

can, right? right? Robert F. Kennedy

1:19:13

emerges between Nineteen Sixty Three and

1:19:16

Eighteen Sixty Seven. Go soon. Incredible

1:19:18

transformation documented. and Jack New Fields

1:19:20

book about those four years in

1:19:22

his life. And we can't. Write.

1:19:25

Another, it's and what we do

1:19:27

is. We're. Not willing.

1:19:30

To. Allow messiahs to emerge that

1:19:33

also as problematic I to it's

1:19:35

not just a loved one of

1:19:37

difference. It's not that there's no

1:19:39

leadership, It's not that there's not

1:19:41

a philosopher game. We need

1:19:43

philosopher kings. We need Buddha's. Or

1:19:45

when need leaders we need to be able to. And.

1:19:48

I think what you're saying is so beautiful. White.

1:19:51

And so correct. We need

1:19:53

to both sold our leaders

1:19:55

accountable. And. Yet allow

1:19:57

them to be imperfect vessels for the light.

1:20:00

Right N N at the same

1:20:03

time, respond to their radiance, it

1:20:05

and allow for leadership. What we've

1:20:07

done is put nearly as destroyed.

1:20:09

Leadership. And as any

1:20:12

time we the sub starts to emerge. We

1:20:14

moved to destroy it. And and

1:20:17

there's also. A and

1:20:19

sector. And. Post modern

1:20:21

society I also within the Intelligentsia Why?

1:20:24

Right Where people with it you can

1:20:26

feel it in the writing with just.

1:20:29

You. Know anyone who hasn't taken a

1:20:31

leadership position I'd who's kind of.

1:20:34

You. Know on the border of it or

1:20:36

can't quite find their way to it

1:20:38

Instead of just saying hey my role

1:20:41

as this a neural as this and

1:20:43

we have different instruments to play The

1:20:45

next sell symphony we go to a

1:20:47

city sedate, To

1:20:49

destroy. Every

1:20:51

kind of emergent leadership whether that's

1:20:53

in medicine, some was practicing at

1:20:56

the cutting edge. Gonna malpractice? Know.

1:20:58

Courses be stem from malpractice but right

1:21:01

a person's got to be able to

1:21:03

reach the bet. The best therapy, the

1:21:05

best politics, the best doctors we we

1:21:07

look to destroy them. and by the

1:21:09

way it's I think the example of.

1:21:12

Robert. As Kennedy's son who's now

1:21:14

in a running for President is

1:21:16

a good example because. What's.

1:21:24

Happening in Public concert. Right.

1:21:26

There's of is but a groundswell around

1:21:28

to, but those are opposing. They're not

1:21:30

opposing based on September browns. They're.

1:21:33

Saying class. Mean.

1:21:35

That's just that's assassination. Oh.

1:21:37

Why? Vaccines. Did

1:21:39

you bother reading? Are doing a research? know? And

1:21:42

it's literally a a canard

1:21:44

where we go to assassinate

1:21:47

because because we're afraid of

1:21:49

real leadership emerging. So

1:21:51

as I think you did, that's

1:21:53

the other point. the dune touches

1:21:55

on which is really important, which

1:21:57

is. We. Need to

1:21:59

actually. Perfect leadership. Rights.

1:22:02

We talked about the shadows, but I think there's

1:22:04

something we need to protect the path to take

1:22:06

it away, brother. We I think

1:22:08

and I mean what I'm What I'm thinking

1:22:10

is is that we've internalize the axiom of

1:22:12

Lord Acton. That. Says power corrupts.

1:22:14

An absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. So when

1:22:17

we've been turn allies, this idea that

1:22:19

power equals corruption. And anybody who stands

1:22:21

strongly in their power as a leader

1:22:23

as a king. Kings are always corrupt

1:22:26

or always tire. Emperors are always going

1:22:28

to be tyrannical. This is always going

1:22:30

to be the case. As soon as

1:22:33

anybody has real power we go. Better

1:22:35

kill them now so that they don't

1:22:37

actually wield this power over us. And

1:22:39

hidden in the shadow of that is

1:22:42

our envy, you know? And. In on

1:22:44

our jealousy and all of these are the

1:22:46

same boat in our own, our own virtuosity

1:22:48

that is being masked behind all the these

1:22:50

shadow qualities that we have. But we're trying

1:22:53

to just kill anybody that can wield power.

1:22:55

one from fear and the other from envy.

1:22:58

So. We don't. I know. Yes,

1:23:00

Yes, And yes it. In other

1:23:02

words, What you're saying is and

1:23:04

I think what we're saying together as. We

1:23:08

refuse to trust the

1:23:10

possibility of sincerity. In.

1:23:12

A sunny, you know. Lionel Trilling.

1:23:14

Lionel Trilling talks about. you know,

1:23:17

This. The to the the. The. Beauty

1:23:19

of sincerity. Chinese says I

1:23:21

trust him because he's sincere.

1:23:24

So words like devotion. Words.

1:23:27

Like purity. Rate.

1:23:30

Words like sincerity.

1:23:33

Eight. What Were. We we

1:23:35

look in every way possible to

1:23:37

show that those words are not

1:23:39

true but our leaders because summer

1:23:42

they make us feel less. And

1:23:45

we will look to level different says

1:23:47

instead of growing. For A

1:23:49

and as so instead of actually

1:23:51

emerging ourselves and emerging our leaders

1:23:54

and A and. And our

1:23:56

leaders. Themselves. Viewing

1:24:01

that I'll be back and supported.

1:24:04

By. Stepping into their destiny because that's also there's

1:24:06

a moment or a leader has to you know

1:24:08

He says to his father a certain moment and

1:24:11

move it to says i found my way. right?

1:24:14

Now there's a leader as gonna find their

1:24:16

way. but we go. To. A

1:24:19

sense lead destroy. Leadership.

1:24:21

And I want to just may be given example. You.

1:24:24

Would have experienced many times know

1:24:26

as a I talk about. You.

1:24:29

Evolutionary Love or outrageous love.

1:24:33

And. So. If. You've had

1:24:35

that experience. You actually feel.

1:24:38

right? This this era of reality coursing

1:24:40

through you and your heart's blown. Open

1:24:42

it and you want to love everyone

1:24:44

in the world. You want to just

1:24:46

bow and kiss, have one sweden be

1:24:48

and devotion to everyone knows you're crazy.

1:24:52

Because you're actually ceiling the actual experience of

1:24:54

reality sets in. a profit. feals At their

1:24:56

core. a profit sold their house. But

1:24:59

a person is never an access to

1:25:01

that ceiling, so the only way they

1:25:03

can interpret it as or must be

1:25:05

manipulative. Oh. It must have

1:25:07

an agenda because they have no access to

1:25:09

any other experience of it. And

1:25:11

what you're saying about power

1:25:14

So important I Power is

1:25:16

actually an elixir. That

1:25:19

there's a pleasure of power. Doc

1:25:21

By God's Infinity of Power. And

1:25:25

power can be terribly abusive. And

1:25:28

we need obviously to. Sue.

1:25:32

Always layer of fi power.

1:25:35

But actually, Power itself.

1:25:38

right? Is the quality was called

1:25:40

l. right? Darkness.

1:25:43

right? And and we need

1:25:45

to be able to incarnate

1:25:48

are unique power. And

1:25:50

to actually trust the goodness

1:25:52

of power? Now can power

1:25:55

corrupts. right? You and I

1:25:57

talked about. I think gonna in a

1:25:59

podcast we haven't. They released or something. I think

1:26:01

I'm but the ring of sorrow and. And.

1:26:04

Right which is kind of power for it's

1:26:06

own sake and and the utter anti life

1:26:08

seduction of power. So yes, sweet, you and

1:26:10

I, We recognize the South Side of power.

1:26:12

Lord Acton didn't get it all wrong. But.

1:26:15

He did get it wrong. Because. There's actually

1:26:17

the hero who. The hero

1:26:19

is powerful. And

1:26:21

hero incarnates the field of

1:26:23

value. And. In the

1:26:26

hero power Levin value. Come.

1:26:28

Together as a holy trinity that

1:26:30

can't be december you waited and

1:26:32

if we go to destroy our

1:26:35

heroes. And.

1:26:37

Actually, undermine. The. Appropriate

1:26:39

deployment of power. And

1:26:42

value and love together. We're.

1:26:45

Left with Saddam the force were left with the

1:26:47

been a jesuit. Yeah, it becomes

1:26:49

this in the shadow in the

1:26:51

vacuum that is left from someone

1:26:53

claiming the power and binding it

1:26:55

to love and value than you

1:26:57

have the shadowy figures who are

1:26:59

In and Trey in the In

1:27:01

behind the Veil who are really

1:27:03

pulling the strings and disconnected from

1:27:05

any feel the value And they're

1:27:07

the ones wielding the power. and

1:27:09

I think a lot of people

1:27:11

are whether true or not to

1:27:13

their hypothesizing that that's actually who's

1:27:15

running the world right now as

1:27:17

this shadow form. Of Power. Oh no I'm

1:27:20

just the Director of the Wh our oh no

1:27:22

I'm just a Director of the World Economic Forum

1:27:24

and is worried about my all amp re. I'm

1:27:26

just you know I'm just George Soros and I'm

1:27:28

just Bill Gates from Atlanta person just all it's

1:27:30

but like and and I'm not saying that I

1:27:32

don't have any come you know I'm I'm a

1:27:35

can't. Prove the enemy of

1:27:37

people are the ones actually pulling

1:27:39

the strings. Are there is anybody

1:27:41

actually pulling the strings but works

1:27:43

in to adding that there's since

1:27:45

nobody's claimed power in this virtuous

1:27:47

way and bound it with love.

1:27:49

We can feel that there's a

1:27:52

shadowy force this kind of this.

1:27:54

This, whether it's tacit or overt,

1:27:56

this conspiratorial force, it's driving us

1:27:58

towards anti life decisions. Just like

1:28:00

to been a jesuit. Yeah. Through

1:28:02

the hands of the Emperor, but

1:28:04

also on their own devices were

1:28:06

driving the universe through. These. Very

1:28:10

Mirabelle Morally objectionable

1:28:12

decisions. Know I mean

1:28:14

yes by them and have one thing to say.

1:28:17

A. Trade is a turfed Harrys

1:28:19

addresses atrocities a trainee I

1:28:21

just ah yes that I'm

1:28:24

is beautiful as and by

1:28:26

the way Duncan I'd how.

1:28:28

Do. We loved on. Can I know right?

1:28:31

I found in Idaho? that is who's

1:28:33

you know, Awesome right? It turns out

1:28:35

at the very end of like you

1:28:37

know. Frank Herbert's Last June

1:28:39

trilogy is Paul realizes in a

1:28:41

Dunk Idol Returns is what's called

1:28:44

a Go Law where they resurrect

1:28:46

his kind of Dna and are

1:28:48

able to kind of wreaths invest

1:28:50

in with life And there's a

1:28:52

particular. You. Know house

1:28:54

that is is very competent and that

1:28:57

becomes one of the keeps you know.

1:28:59

Seems no later Dune Messiah but. At

1:29:02

the end of you know, one moment

1:29:04

in this huge saga. Saul

1:29:07

realizes that Duncan Idaho is

1:29:09

the to. Keep. Such address

1:29:11

the his the true leader by

1:29:13

potential yeah that he actually is

1:29:16

noble. And he's a

1:29:18

warrior. And he sacrifices his

1:29:20

life to save Jessica, right and

1:29:22

Paul Many sack and he happens

1:29:24

again. He sacrifices his life again.

1:29:26

and then it's he says. and

1:29:29

this the second time I'm dying

1:29:31

for a trade is it's estimates

1:29:33

East, But he's this noble figure

1:29:35

and we need to reclaim the

1:29:37

nobility of power. And.

1:29:40

Right as a possibility. Were

1:29:44

literally. I mean. It

1:29:47

Can I be? Can I be person? For

1:29:49

a moment I remember it was some years

1:29:51

ago. When. You and I started

1:29:53

talking. Raid. And so

1:29:55

high remember that who? I remember who it was

1:29:57

but there was some com at that someone said.

1:30:00

The was oh like right. But when you

1:30:02

talk to him, didn't you feel like he

1:30:04

moved you on certain positions? You felt like

1:30:06

you kind of lost her bearing for a

1:30:08

second. Right? right? Cause And and so the

1:30:10

point the person was making as. Of

1:30:12

anyone who's powerful that makes you lose your

1:30:14

bearing for a second. Is dangerous

1:30:17

now. I look for people.

1:30:19

Who. Can make me lose my bearing. My favorite

1:30:21

people in the world right are and I

1:30:23

trust you to make me lose my baron

1:30:26

for a second. Right? Meaningless if I don't

1:30:28

trust your power. right? And

1:30:30

basically you're just know we

1:30:32

actually want people to challenge

1:30:34

us to deepen us to

1:30:37

transform us, not by violating

1:30:39

our integrity or not by.

1:30:41

Overcoming are agency your distinction my

1:30:44

sommeliers. an earlier. But

1:30:46

by actually being powerful? Your

1:30:48

items were afraid of power and this

1:30:50

is maybe a last thing I think.

1:30:54

You know, Your.

1:30:57

Jimi Hendrix. You know on

1:30:59

his guitar and star Spangled Banner

1:31:01

and were at Woodstock and is

1:31:04

awesome. Any he dies at twenty

1:31:06

six and he he lives this

1:31:08

effect. Tragic post tragic, free, tragic,

1:31:10

crazy life, you know? But he

1:31:12

got one thing really wrong. Right

1:31:15

where he says you know. When. We

1:31:17

get to a place where the. Power.

1:31:20

Of Love is so much greater than the love

1:31:22

of power. It's a

1:31:24

wrong split. It's. Actually,

1:31:26

not true. love in power are.

1:31:29

Solely. An absolute

1:31:32

entwined. In blood

1:31:34

his ultimate power. You

1:31:36

have loves not let us know Week

1:31:38

love his son. And

1:31:41

it's the strongest force and Cosmos. It's

1:31:43

the most powerful force and Cosmos. And

1:31:45

I think this is one of the

1:31:48

places where I think the you know

1:31:50

Paul and the from and lose their

1:31:52

way in that there there's this. There's

1:31:55

a statement that said we have limited

1:31:57

resources so fear is the resource we

1:31:59

have. Right and and that's a paraphrase of all

1:32:01

says that a Gurney Halleck when he says he only

1:32:04

up to we said we only have two hundred. Yeah

1:32:06

right him he says so like so fear is the

1:32:08

resource we have and so. I

1:32:11

can understand that from a pragmatic sense

1:32:13

that they did have limited resources, but

1:32:16

the resource that they were overlooking was

1:32:18

love love as the ultimate power and

1:32:20

what I think there's a there's a

1:32:22

great fictional series called the Fifth Sacred

1:32:25

Thing by this old which name Star

1:32:27

Hawk and See identified herself as an

1:32:29

old, got no account and I target

1:32:31

or together. And yes, else in the

1:32:34

Fifth Sacred saying there's this dystopian society.

1:32:36

So. As close to

1:32:38

as corrupt as the Hearkens, but

1:32:40

not quite not quite that, not

1:32:42

quite that irredeemable. They go to

1:32:45

be sees this kind of from

1:32:47

in sixties utopian kind of society

1:32:49

in the north and instead of

1:32:52

using power to and in fear

1:32:54

to overcome the enemy the actually

1:32:56

invite them in for a seat

1:32:58

at the table and they trust

1:33:01

that the love that they have

1:33:03

will actually convert. Convert

1:33:05

the colonizers, convert dystopian society,

1:33:07

and actually redeem them. And

1:33:10

then that's the resolution of

1:33:12

the conflict is that they

1:33:14

actually trust. They trust the

1:33:16

power of love. and they

1:33:18

trusted both. That that love

1:33:20

does have that sufficient power.

1:33:23

And. That it. and that it's

1:33:25

yes, And that it's It's wildly

1:33:27

tender and insanely fierce. Your

1:33:29

and in we we we just we

1:33:31

sing so i guess plus one of

1:33:33

the reasons brother that. I. Started

1:33:36

to talk about outrageous love. I I

1:33:38

just refused to use the word love

1:33:40

many more by itself is because it's

1:33:42

become so tepid. At. So

1:33:44

Flash said. right? So you

1:33:46

know, impotent. Actually right? In other

1:33:48

words, We We. We think of

1:33:51

love as this cherubic little baby

1:33:53

playing a harp someplace right that

1:33:55

you definitely. Would. Not wanna make

1:33:58

love to ride and was certainly not. To

1:34:00

lead a nation or or or

1:34:02

to tell you anything else. So

1:34:04

this sense of. You.

1:34:06

Know love as this fierce force and

1:34:08

and the reason we know it's a

1:34:10

fierce forces, not because we're making a

1:34:13

new age claim. Now

1:34:15

I know because actually it and this

1:34:17

is again Frank Herbert. This was before

1:34:20

as time, but we actually know Now

1:34:22

in terms of the best science is

1:34:24

that we're now bringing together in this

1:34:27

new story of value that actually it

1:34:29

is heiress, which is the animating energy

1:34:31

of guzzlers Like that, the higher class

1:34:34

or is driven by this forcible lord

1:34:36

and that electromagnetism and gravity are but

1:34:38

seeds of era there, but shades of

1:34:41

a woman. And so when when you

1:34:43

think of. You know,

1:34:45

a supernova. right? That's

1:34:47

forming new bonds and new valence

1:34:50

as and all the elements from

1:34:52

Stars Using About Love. Night.

1:34:54

In other words and I love

1:34:56

as many forms and many expressions.

1:34:58

but love is that which moves

1:35:00

separate parts to com become larger

1:35:02

holes and that that love keeps

1:35:04

evolving and kill. No one's left

1:35:06

out of a circle and it's

1:35:08

It's this fierce powerful force that

1:35:10

that we need to reclaim and

1:35:12

I loved that seen that you

1:35:14

bring to bear. Murray says also

1:35:16

we a sphere and and he's

1:35:18

right. And.

1:35:24

All over the redeeming

1:35:27

moments. Indian. Or love

1:35:29

stories. And it's. It's

1:35:31

shiny. And Paul. It's

1:35:34

Jessica. right? And.

1:35:37

And Paul. right? It's.

1:35:41

Even. The Emperor and his daughter for

1:35:43

a second busiest slicker. Are

1:35:45

you seal and early rate? You know you,

1:35:48

You see lado. And Jessica.

1:35:51

right? You see right? Another, it's the

1:35:53

The Bianca Enigma Duncan and Paul Lado

1:35:55

Import. Like all other you, they're all

1:35:57

of a gurney. Halleck and Paul. Ryan.

1:36:00

Right. I mean, it's all it's it's

1:36:02

it's it's it's the mother and the

1:36:04

baby it suggests again Alia, right? Anything

1:36:07

that moves us. Is

1:36:10

a love for. A man

1:36:12

right? And that Muslims feminist? Beautiful. It's

1:36:14

it's. the. Yeah. As

1:36:16

this whole that for second. As.

1:36:20

We move has removed a close

1:36:22

here. I think one of the

1:36:24

things we want to eliminate is

1:36:26

where are we in the story.

1:36:29

right? Now us and and

1:36:31

what Is this? Tale

1:36:33

of Dune, What is it pointing

1:36:35

to and what can we eliminate

1:36:38

about our own path in the

1:36:40

decisions that we have to make

1:36:42

in these coming months? weeks, years?

1:36:44

Yeah, enough centuries. Even as we

1:36:46

look throughout the span of time,

1:36:48

what are the things that we

1:36:50

can learn from these stories that

1:36:52

are being told? And how can

1:36:54

we actually what are we Do

1:36:56

You know that sacred question? We

1:36:59

ask what you want. One point

1:37:01

we do. How does this

1:37:03

film help us understand what ought we

1:37:05

do? Yeah. Yeah.

1:37:08

No. beautiful abs. And

1:37:11

and. When. You think

1:37:13

about it. After

1:37:20

we sought. That.

1:37:22

We killed all the gods. We'd.

1:37:25

Move from traditional world and to

1:37:27

modernity. With. Homo

1:37:29

economic yes and rational

1:37:31

actors and narrow self

1:37:33

interests. And you know,

1:37:35

my suburban home with

1:37:37

my two cars I

1:37:39

had an my quote

1:37:41

unquote successful life. And.

1:37:44

We thought okay. We've. Arrived.

1:37:47

And. It turned out that wasn't quite true.

1:37:49

It turned out that. Actually, even

1:37:51

being as are more than that. And

1:37:54

actually human beings yearn for prophecy. That

1:37:58

human beings. Feel

1:38:01

the call of. Messy,

1:38:06

messy, Anac vision that

1:38:08

that human beings are

1:38:10

moved by world visions.

1:38:13

By by jihad buy medicine.

1:38:16